January 2, 2025 • 37 mins
You've heard of mooning -- the practice of bearing one's butt as an insult -- but where did it come from? Join Ben and Noel as they dive into the deadly story of the world's first recorded mooning, along with some other notable moments in keister history.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, fellow ridiculous historians, keep your pants on. We have
a great classic episode for you, we do. Ben.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Are you familiar with the practice known as pheasants underglass?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm familiar with the dish. I didn't know it was
a move.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Well, it's when you take your bare butt cheeks and
press them against a window.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Oh, like any window or window.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I think, as long as it's glass, I think it's okay.
It could be like a sliding door or whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
But so like, if I carry a pane of glass
with me before I moon people.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I would argue that would be even more akin to
the actual pheasant underglass, because it's, you know, a portable
thing that you can just pull right off, revealing the
bear butt.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The mooning practice of mooning is a historical I guess,
dis referring to the act of bearing ones behind to
someone as an insult, sort of a biting of the thumb.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Have you ever mooned anyone?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Know?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Maybe cheekily, you know, someone out in a relationship with
you know, a little cheeky sneak peek at the old
bum maroony, but no, never in anger. Honestly, I just
don't understand the act of doing it in anger. It's
so goofy and silly. Although maybe has not aged super well.
The idea of exposing oneself to somebody not great. They
(01:17):
have laws against that stuff, so maybe definitely don't do that.
There's got to be a better way.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
As Liam Gallagher once famously said, don't moon back in anger.
He did say that it's true thousands of people could die.
This is our classic episode. You know what Liam Gallagher
also said? What did he also say? You fancy some lasagna?
And with that here is our champagne supernova of a
(01:45):
classic app. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Well, well, well,
(02:17):
thanks for tuning in Ridiculous Historians. Today we have a
rather cheeky episode for you.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Huh Ben, you cheeky bastard.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Well, I want to be I want to be bear
faced about what we're getting into here today.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Noel Hermann punster over here, right.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
We do want to say that we hope you enjoy
the occasional dad joke and pun that happens here on
Ridiculous History, but we do want to warn you these
puns have not been approved by our super producer, Casey Pegram. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
In fact, sometimes he'll make a face, yes, but sometimes
it's a good face.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah. Yeah, you know. We spend a lot of time
during recording saying stuff to make each other laugh and
then hopefully you can see it one day friend's neighbors,
Nola and I will make a joke trying to crack
the other one up, and then we'll both turn.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, you can probably hear the sounds of our next
whipping around over to Casey.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Approve of us, Casey for.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
A nod, just any kind of errant glance, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, we we hinge on it, and we do so
in the spirit of decorum conversations between gentlemen. This episode
is about something that is very under chorous, and I
wanted to open with a question. Don't have to answer,
don't feel obligated. I was hoping it was going to
(03:41):
be a song. No question in the form of a song.
Give it to me. Have you ever mooned someone? No,
you haven't, not that I recall that.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Okay, yeah, that's that's incriminating. I mean no, I don't
have a distinct memory of I mean yeah, okay, yeah,
I mean you know, a girlfriend. Now I'm getting too personal.
That sounds weird, you know, a little cheeky flash, you know,
a little flash of the cheek, but not as an insult, right,
not as not to degrade someone.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
No, sir, I will tell you a true story that
stays just between you, Casey, me and everyone listening to
this show. Hey, we're all friends here. I did I
did moon someone once as an insult. In high school. Yeah,
it was my junior year. There was a villain, a
(04:37):
bully in my high school. He was the year above me.
And the kid was a sack of bricks from the
neck up. The not the brightest crayon in the box.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Oh, I thought you meant like he was built like
a brick ship house. He was also a big dude.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, and he made life miserable for my friends and I.
And there was a gas station and that people would
go to every day after school to hang, to pick
up sodas, to try to mac on each other and whatnot.
And this guy was advertising one day near the end
(05:13):
of the school year. He was advertising a house party
at his place, and he drove a jeep he thought,
of course he did, Yeah, an open air jeep. And
he thought it would be a great idea for him
to strip down to his skivies, put on a sandwich
board sign advertising his house party, and walk up and
down the street between the school and the gas stations
(05:36):
like a punishment. We really didn't like this guy, me
and my posse, and so while we were at the
gas station, spur the moment, terrible impulse. Don't try this
at home, kids. We took his clothes out of his
jeep and then we drove by in my car and
stopped and then mooned him and drove away waving his clothes.
(06:00):
He ran in his underwear to his jeep, reared off,
chasing after us. And it was also the first day
I mooned someone as an insult. Was also the first
day I got involved in a car chase.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Okay, the bully didn't murder anybody. He chased you a
little high speed card chase, a little bit of a
fist shaking. But you know, no lives were lost in
this particular mooning incident.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, Well, we don't have to go to the rest
of the story too, but but yeah, it's just just
the mooning part is pertinent for today's episode because you
are right, Mooning, for some reason, is universally acknowledged as
an insult to someone right, it's not like another form
(06:44):
of a wave. Right. And in today's episode, you and
I discovered a story about just how far back the
practice known as mooning goes. And maybe this is over
explaining it, but what do you think do you think
we should tell people, just in case they're hearing this,
tell people what mooning actually is.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, I mean if they haven't figured it out by
now or didn't already know, I'm worried about them.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But why don't we do it? Mooning?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
The act of mooning bearing your moon, be hind quarters,
your backside, dropping trout dropping, or lifting a kilter or
skirts and lifting the kilter the skirt like in Brave Heart.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Remember that.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, apparently some historical truth to that, but it was
actually flipped around the other way. It was it was
the English mooning the Scots.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Because I believe in the film the Scottish forces show
their backside but then also show their front size.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
That's right, don't they doing about face? Or that was
the double the moon and the sun.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It was very choreographed as well, so that's interesting. I
didn't know that that was the English.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
That's what Yeah, apparently in real real life skis but
we're going back to what some have dubbed the original moon, Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
The earliest recorded mooning. According to many sources, it goes
all the way back to the first century AD, the
very first one, the very first one. And to tell
the story, we're relying on an author named Josephus Boyd
Josephus man Young Fesus himself.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Hey, I know, I mean, he's got an interesting story
all his own, But let's let's start with the initial
story that Josephus has to tell us about this historical
display of ours.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yes, yes, okay. So Josephus wrote a book called the
Jewish War, and in this book he tells a story
of a very strange event that occurred between the Jewish
people and the occupying Roman soldiers.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So Roman force is during what's dubbed the Pax Romana,
which is kind of interesting considering that means piece of Rome.
But it wasn't so peaceful. There were outright rebels, and
there were revolts brewing in this land against these occupying forces.
And there were a lot of factors at play, because
there were religious zealots who wanted to purify the Jewish faith,
(09:22):
and then there were ones that were a little more
amenable to their invaders, you know, and we're kind of
okay with continuing with this way of life as long
as they were able to maintain some of the tenets
of their Jewish faith. So we're seeing here in Josevis's
story is a clash involving some of those more zealous forces.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah. Yeah, because whenever there is an occupying force, there
is inevitably going to be some sort of tension, and
this situation was no different. Imagine if you can living
in a city where in you and your entire community
(10:05):
are under the thumb, whether benevolent or whether brutal. You're
under the thumb of foreign forces, an alien culture that
doesn't hold the values you hold, that doesn't believe in
the traditions that you have practiced since time immemorial. Obviously
there's going to be some tension. Noel, I think you
(10:26):
did a fantastic job laying out the differences between these groups.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And we're not going to go all the way into
every nuance of this, but there is a lot of
back and forth in this conflict between Rome and the
people of Israel, ultimately resulting in the Romans being expelled
and largely massacred. But that's almost a whole episode unto
itself that is pretty heavy and full of bloodshed. We're
(10:53):
talking about moonings today.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That's right, that's right. So the situation becomes incredible tense
during the passover season because crowds and crowds of people
are flocking to Jerusalem, and this is a powder keg.
Any small excuse could become the feather that breaks the
(11:16):
Camels back in terms of war. And there's an excellent
recount of this in a book called the Jewish Revolts
against Rome ad Sixty six to one thirty five, a
military analysis by James J. Bloom. So here's the situation.
The Roman prefect, who is in charge of these occupying forces,
(11:40):
would routinely post soldiers atop battlements so that they could
have an unparalleled or superior view of the proceedings of
the pilgrimages, the visitors the passover.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Make sure no one was stern any stern any mess.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, no domestic unrest, right, And he was in charge
at this point. Do you remember Cestius Gallus, Yes, sir,
that's the one. Yes. So he he had these soldiers
looking for any sign of agitation because at least from
the prefect's perspective, no one wanted to quote Michael Jackson.
(12:19):
No one wanted to be starting something. But unfortunately those
plans went awry because of a single Roman soldier.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, this unnamed soldier thought it'd be real cute if
he did the thing in question here, pulled down as
his what did he have, like a skirt? Yeah, he uh,
like one of those battleskirts. He had something covering his
took as he removed it. And I'm guessing no, he
was commando because you know, he was kind of a soldier.
(12:49):
I guess where's the term coming from. Man, going commando?
Do you really think commandos didn't wear underpants? That that
seems to be a bad idea. Seems like you'd get
swamp ass.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, it seems like, especially if you're on a commando mission,
you would want all the protection you can have. So
I think going commando dates back to the Vietnam War
at least that's when it got popular because people would
say that these folks, these commandos went without underwear to
(13:20):
increase ventilation and reduce moisture. Oh so they dried out
the other way. Yeah, it still doesn't make sense. No,
it's fine.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Anyway, we digress. This particular fellow. Sure seems like he
had easy access to his bits.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah right, because he didn't.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You know, you don't see it written that he you know,
gingerly removed his breeches.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No, it's he like pulled up something and.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Let it fly. And to quote the account, you want
to do this, Ben, I think this. I think if
you care to this is are you sure, yeah, I'll
do it. I'll do it Joe cephas, and I realized why.
I think that's funny. I think of bo Cephis, which
is the nickname for leave Hank Williams Ocephis.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So that's I can never separate this too.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
But yeah, Joe Cephis describes the historical mooning as such,
one of the soldiers raising his robe, stooped in an
indecent attitude so as to turn his backside to the Jews,
and made a noise in keeping with his posture. Does
that mean a he let fly at a toot?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That means he either either he actually flatulated, or the
version that I think is for some reason much funnier
is he leaned over and made the noise with his mouth.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, Oh, yours is better there's there's different No, but
I put my hands on my face.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
He couldn't have done that.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
He definitely couldn't because he was holding his skirts, robe, rope, skirt, whatever. Yeah,
and this, this did not go over well, my friend,
because these were pilgrims on a during a very high
holy time.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Right, yeah, it's a holy it's a very serious, somber,
thankful time.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And they're already beefed up with these Roman jerks, you know,
who are just hanging around when they're.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Skirts Boston people around spears. Well, yeah, honestly, it's tremendously
offensive to deride somebody's religion at any point, but especially
when they're in the middle of one of the most
important celebrations they have.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I'm trying to picture this too. Can you picture this scene?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Like?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
What, how is this guy able to make himself such
a display?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
You know, because he was on that battle man, he's
on raised ground. But the other thing that's weird about
this is that we know very little about his motivation
other than that he was, as Josepha says, contemptuous. You know, so,
was it something where he had had some strong wine
and had one of those hold my beer moments?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yes, he had drained his wine skin. Yes, yeah, you know,
up on the up on the battlements in the hot sun.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Or was he really just a sober, bad tempered person.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, because ben, I mean, it's pretty clear from the
history here that neither side cared much for the other.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Right, well, why would you if you were if you
were a Jerusalem native, Yeah, why would you be buddy
buddy with these people?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
There was some weird side switching though, and our boy
Josephus was one of these defectors. He initially was actually
put in command of a force of rebels on the
Jewish side, and then hopped sides over to the Roman side,
(16:43):
and he ended up becoming the historian that told these accounts.
And he is considered by many historians to be particularly
manipulative and untrustworthy. So he's kind of an unreliable narrator here,
But it's all we've got, and it's, you know, a
primary source because he was there. But he also may
well have been a bit of a self aggrandizing liar.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Right, Yeah, that's that's the thing. So his his lifetime,
he was born in thirty seven CE or thirty seven
ad C for common era ad for after the death
of Jesus Christ and no dominie yes, nail on the head. No.
And he died around one hundred CE. And so when
(17:27):
we go to this record of this earliest recorded mooning,
it's him writing about this event far after the fact.
But he was definitely involved in the political and military
conflicts of the time. He was, you know, as as
you said, the head of Jewish forces in Galilee until
he surrendered in sixty seven to Roman forces, right, and
(17:52):
then he decided to stay on. He had been a slave,
he had been an interpreter, very fascinating life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely,
we have to take it with a grain of salt
when we hear the stories as told primarily by Josephus,
(18:14):
is he writing to sort of polish his own image.
Is he factually reporting, and if so, to what degree
he is held up in the Jewish community.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
It seems as being at least an important chronicler of
some of these battles because he was there. But even
in this article I found from a beautifully named website
called the jew Niverse, they describe him as a famously
self aggrandizing ancient historian. But he wrote such works as
The Jewish War which is where this account is from
(18:44):
Jewish antiquities and against apion.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, that's a two volume defense of Judaism as classical
religion and philosophy. Is very well written, prolific man.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yes, and speaking of that, and actually found a translation
of the incident, call it that. I much prefer this
is just the wording is which one is this? It's
just it's in this article in the universe, and it's
just it's the same. It's obviously the same text as
what we read a minute ago. I just think this
particular translation is way more fun. This one describes the
soldier as that he pulled back his garment and cowering
(19:19):
down after an indecent manner, turned his breach to the
Jews and spake such words as you might expect upon
such a posture.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I love the idea of that he spake. Yes, Now
this makes us think whether there is a difference in translation.
Was he making a farting noise with his mouth? Was
he saying something offensive like, you know, uh, snarf my
butt people? I don't know, Ben, what ever?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Did I think those words would let fly from those
luxurious lips of yours?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Thank you, thank you. It's called a cupid's bow in
the top one. So, uh, I don't we don't think
they said snarf. We're speculating there. But despite the fact
that many people nowadays love a good bit of crass,
butt oriented humor, there's a time and a place for it.
(20:10):
And that was true in this instance, because the crowd
did not react well to this. No one was like,
look at that.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
But yeah, I started going down that path earlier. I
think we got distracted with more butt related lore. But yeah, no,
this did not go well. This did not go well.
And also that commander we were talking about, Gallas, Yeah,
he was kind of considered a bit of a dunderhead
or like a bit of kind of an overreacting adult
(20:40):
when it came to being a military superior. And there
have been a lot of incidents leading up to this
that were already causing a lot of divisive feelings between
the Jews and their occupiers. I believe there was some
destruction of some sacred scrolls and just just in general
bad behavior here on the part of these occupying forces
(21:02):
toward the religion of the natives.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yes, so you can read an excellent article about this
from history Net. The Great Siege of Jerusalem by Ralph Peters,
which details some of the context leading up to this.
And we have to establish that because it's easy to
look at this single incident in a vacuum and say, sure,
(21:29):
mooning someone may be impolite, but it's not a cause
for citywide pandemonium. So this was something that was happening
in addition to many profoundly offensive and disrespectful things burning
sacred scrolls, that's a huge one. But also there were
(21:50):
recent crises that had occurred in Afghanistan at the time,
and they also strong armed the temple priest into making
a mass of payment to Rome, so they were stealing
from the people as well. That's right.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Was that the Pharisees, they were all these different classes,
and I believe that Josephus was initially part of the Pharisees,
and they were a sect of priests that get sort
of a bad rap because of their place in the
Bible and their interactions with Jesus and the idea of
the Pharisees and the money changers and all that of
being the sign of greed and hypocrisy. But they were
(22:28):
largely responsible for preserving some of the important religious texts
of this faith. So there's a lot of interesting stuff
in the history of the Jewish people, really really fascinating stuff.
I mean, they were a kingdom, you know, yeah, the
Kingdom of Judea, and like the Maccabees, and you know,
they were always able to fight off their occupiers and
they were constantly be inject with right.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, Rome was one in a series.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, I mean initially there was the Persian conquest, and
there was the Hellenistic period with Alexander the Great, and
there was even this sense of a lot of the
a lot of Jews, parts of sects of the society,
wanted to become Hellenized. They wanted to become more Greek
and kind of abandon the old ways. So there's always
the struggle between religious zealous people that want to like
(23:14):
keep the faith pure and you know, more fair weather
Jews that I think want to be more assimilated into
their invading culture.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Right, Assimilation is the word, and the threat of assimilation
looms large, right, and not just in this situation, but
in situations throughout history. And so it is within this
rich and dangerous cultural soil that this seed of discord,
this act of mooning by an unidentified Roman soldier of Moony. Yeah,
(23:45):
sprouts and spreads because not only do the people not
like it, not only does no one go but stuff, No,
the people riot.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Oh yeah, no they ass out.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Ok. I think that's fine, I think it's appropriate.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, but no, I mean they're you know, this assembled
crowd of thousands, I mean upwards of over thirty thousand,
because that is the number reported.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That were killed by Josephus. Yeah. Yeah, he says that
the riot occurs, and all told, when the dust settles,
thirty thousand people Jewish and Roman lost their lives. And
part of this, this is a little bit maybe outside
of the documented facts here, but part of this we
(24:34):
can assume would be due to Gallas's incredibly belligerent and
bellicost nature.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
And just utter skittishness, right because he called in the
troops big time, over corrected, and then gave the order
to you know, fire adam boys sticking with spears.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Right right, an over response. He's sent in Roman soul
not just to quell the riot or calm the people,
but to punish and injure them, and that is what
sprouted the seat. Now we don't have any information of
what that unknown Roman soldier was doing as he was
(25:17):
on the battlement watching this riot occur. Did he go
down to attack some of these innocent men, women and children?
Did he just stay up there thinking that he had
discovered one of the world's most amazing and dangerous insults,
The Adam Bam of rude physical gestures, Adam Bum, the
(25:39):
Adam Bum. There we go. So we don't know what
happened to him, but we do know that this is
the earliest recorded mooning. So if you have ever been mooned,
or if you like you're bullying, probably broke his mind.
He probably drove him, mad man, you know, Okay, okay,
(26:00):
last thing I'll say about that doll. It was a
car of us. Were you doing, Peasant under glass? What's that?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Are you pressing your bare butts against the window?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I mean one guy definitely was one of the guys
in the back Pheasant under Glass. I had no idea
that is such a classy moment, such a crass So
I guess, So I guess so Pheasant underglass.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Well, that's an advanced moon that's like some next level mooning.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So whether you have mooned someone have been mooned before.
We hope that this episode helps you be aware that
you are either the victim of or the practitioner of
an ancient form of derision.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
But Ben, I want to talk about more historical mooning, So.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Glad you do know. Off air we were looking into
some really unusual and fascinating ones. What do you got?
What do you got? Ben?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
I really appreciate you letting me go first. You know
how much how much I love this topic. We both
found and have been really enjoying a fantastic article on
slate dot com the very classy name mooning, a History
by Forrest Wickman mentioned briefly earlier, the whole brave heart
(27:13):
sun and moon gesture thing was actually flipped the other
way around. It was the English taunting the Scottish with
their butts. I think this article was think a good
way to start here is just let's talk about let's
get back to the coinage of the term mooning, because
you see, Ben, while this act was ancient, it didn't
(27:35):
really get a proper name until the nineteen sixties, when
the Oxford English Dictionary got an entry for the word
that attributed it to student slang of the sixties. Because
it became a really popular thing to do in university
in America specific exactly. And that's important because I believe
(27:57):
that the description the use of the word moon as
a euphemism for butt or buttocks dates back to the
seventeen hundreds or the eighteenth century. But the reason I
think it's interesting that it's traced to American or US
student slang is because American English is notorious for the
(28:20):
practice of turning every single word into a verb. You
and I have done it on multiple shows. Yeah, like Squatching,
Yeah exactly, from the Sasquatch episode.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah exactly. So it's it's nice to know that that
linguistic tradition precedes us. But I'm so fascinated by the
fact that this act has been described multiple times in literature,
in fiction and nonfiction, and they didn't come up with
a convenient term for it for centuries, for heck, for millennia.
(28:52):
We know that we know that during the Fourth Crusade
and twelve three Western Europeans were to take Constantinople, but
they failed and they sailed away in defeat. And as
they were sailing away, the Byzantine forces who did at
them hollered at them and quote showed their bare buttocks
(29:14):
in derision to the fleeing foe derision.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
You say, yeah, because this act you're essentially like sexually
harassing someone from afar that is.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And then I guess, I guess it is somewhat counterintuitive
because in the animal world often when other mammals show
their posterior to a creature, it's an active submission.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Right, It's like, hey, come, come, get you some of this, right.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
But yeah, so now it's clearly it is. So, of course,
where would we be if we did not mention one
of the most well known retellings or depictions of mooning
in the English language, And that is, of course, the
Miller's tale from Chaucer's The Canterbury.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Tales Old Saucy Chassi And there's baldy body Canterbury.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Tales Chos the sauce. That's him. There you go. So
in the frame story of the Canterbury Tales, a group
of people who are traveling decide to travel together and
to pass the time in their travels, they tell each
other's stories. These people are described often by their occupations.
(30:29):
So there's a partner, for instance, who carries relics and
charges people to get close to these religious artifacts. And
then there is the Miller, who is in a wild
plot twist the miller, But we have a very saucy
tale from the Miller himself. We're not going to read
the whole thing, but there are some parts that we
think you will find choice.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Oh, Ben, can we do the back and forth where
one of us is the old Englishman and the other
is the translator?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
For sure? Which one do you want to do?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Can I be the translator? I feel like you have
a little more expertise when it comes to this work.
I believe he studied in.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
The school I did, but my pronunciation is going to
be terrible.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I wish Jonathan Strickland, the quizzer, was here in his
Renaissance fair regalia. He would lean into this hard. He'll
tell you what he might be here.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We never know. Let's launch a channel. Yeah, let's go this.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
So, just so we don't have to read the whole thing,
can you give us a little quick and dirty of
how we get to the part that we're about to start?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah. So the Miller's tale is this story
about a carpenter and his wife and these two students
or clerks that are trying to get her into bed.
The Carpenter's a guy named John, and he lives knocked
for his wife is a lot younger than him, and
she is known as the local hobby. Right.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Isn't this like a cuckolding story kind of, isn't there?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah? Yeah, And what we'll do, without going into the
without going into the entire setup to the story, will
read you the juicy bit where in a character named
Absalom attempts to pursue this wife romantically.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And there's some climbing up a ladder into a window
kind of action going on here.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So let us begin, lemon, thy grace and sweet bird.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Then, oh, sweetheart, your favor, and sweet bird, your kindness.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
The window she undooth, and that in haste she unlatched
the window. Quickly, have do quote, she come on, then
speed thee fast, go ahead, she said, come on, and
do it quickly, lest that our neighbors thee a spy. Yeah,
in case our neighbors see us, this Absalom gon wipe
his mouth full dry. This Absalom began to wipe his
(32:47):
mouth dry. Dirk, was the night as pitch or as
the cool.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
The night was dark, yeah, like pitch or coal.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
And at the window out she puts here whole.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
And to help the window, she put her whole.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
We're a family show. Okay, okay, okay, and absalom him
feel no better, newares this confuses me. And as for Absalom,
it happened no better nor worse. But with his mouth
he kissed her naked URRs.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
So body, they teach this in school, man.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
This is a We're still a family show.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
A translation if he couldn't use your imagination there but
with his mouth, But with his mouth he kissed her
naked arse full savorly are He was war of this
most enjoyable. Before he realized what he was kissing.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
A back He's start and thought it was a mess.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Back he started and thought something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Here we go for well, he wished a woman hath.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
No bird, for he well knew women have no beards.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Like we have a slow im.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I'm applauding for Chaucer and also for Ben Bowleen and
your fantastic old English.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Uh brugue, what do you call that? Elish whatever? Whatever?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Old brown ladies and gentlemen, you're too kind. Let's hear
it for super producer Casey Pagrie. Yeah, we're making this alive.
Can we also hear it for a regular contributor, Lori
l Dove. She didn't really contribute anything to this episode,
but I just don't want to hear it's delight.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
And while we're thanking everyone, let's give it up friends
and neighbors, for Alex Williams, who composed our track, and
for our research associate Christopher Hasiotis, who spoiler alert this
show and who spoiler alert needs a sound effect. Yeah, yeah, Casey,
we defer to you, NI give me later. We'll just
(35:00):
you know, put it on the back burner. We'll work
you know what right to us and let us know
what you think is what do you think when you
hear Hasiotis?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I think about the infamous club, the Hacienda owned by
the guy that you know discovered Joy Division and New
Order and all that stuff. Remember have you seen the
movie twenty four Hour Party people?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh yeah, that's great, Wow, great movie that come out.
It was like the early two thousand Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
And most importantly, give it up for yourself.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Cann If you want to pat yourself on the back,
give yourself a handshake.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Don't be weirded out if people are looking at you,
you are your self affirming.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Play Rock paper scissors with yourself, see what happens.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Tell us who wins. Please. In the meantime, we hope
that you enjoyed our exploration of the history of Moony
at least a fraction as much as we have clearly
enjoyed diving into it.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I'm just tipsy with delight and sour.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Our journey ends for today. That's the end of our episode,
but not our show. Tune in again very soon for
more ridiculous history and last, but certainly not least, and
we promise not bare butt related. We're going on tour.
If you happen to be in Philadelphia and would like
(36:17):
a little bit of historical what would you call it,
no historical entertainment, Shenanigan.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Sure, Yeah, we bring the pain, historical pain. That sounds
not fun, you know what I mean? Yeah, I bring
the fun, the fun pain, And we're going to bring
our butts, yes, which will remain squarely covered with our pentaions.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, that is the ridiculous history guarantee of quality. We
will have our pants on the whole time. But yes,
the rumors are true. You can find us on tour
July first in Philadelphia, along with our longtime pals and
founders of Mental, Flossy Mango, and will It's True. They
are the host of part Time Genius Won't You? If
(37:00):
you happen to be in town.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
You can find ticket information at phillypodfast dot com. They
are on sale right now and it's at four o'clock
on Sunday, July first, at the Trocadero Theater. So come
get ridiculous with us in a live setting. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(37:24):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Oh, fellow ridiculous historians, keep your pants on. We have
a great classic episode for you, we do. Ben.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Are you familiar with the practice known as pheasants underglass?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm familiar with the dish. I didn't know it was
a move.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Well, it's when you take your bare butt cheeks and
press them against a window.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Oh, like any window or window.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I think, as long as it's glass, I think it's okay.
It could be like a sliding door or whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
But so like, if I carry a pane of glass
with me before I moon people.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I would argue that would be even more akin to
the actual pheasant underglass, because it's, you know, a portable
thing that you can just pull right off, revealing the
bear butt.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The mooning practice of mooning is a historical I guess,
dis referring to the act of bearing ones behind to
someone as an insult, sort of a biting of the thumb.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Have you ever mooned anyone?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Know?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Maybe cheekily, you know, someone out in a relationship with
you know, a little cheeky sneak peek at the old
bum maroony, but no, never in anger. Honestly, I just
don't understand the act of doing it in anger. It's
so goofy and silly. Although maybe has not aged super well.
The idea of exposing oneself to somebody not great. They
(01:17):
have laws against that stuff, so maybe definitely don't do that.
There's got to be a better way.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
As Liam Gallagher once famously said, don't moon back in anger.
He did say that it's true thousands of people could die.
This is our classic episode. You know what Liam Gallagher
also said? What did he also say? You fancy some lasagna?
And with that here is our champagne supernova of a
(01:45):
classic app. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Well, well, well,
(02:17):
thanks for tuning in Ridiculous Historians. Today we have a
rather cheeky episode for you.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Huh Ben, you cheeky bastard.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Well, I want to be I want to be bear
faced about what we're getting into here today.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Noel Hermann punster over here, right.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
We do want to say that we hope you enjoy
the occasional dad joke and pun that happens here on
Ridiculous History, but we do want to warn you these
puns have not been approved by our super producer, Casey Pegram. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
In fact, sometimes he'll make a face, yes, but sometimes
it's a good face.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah. Yeah, you know. We spend a lot of time
during recording saying stuff to make each other laugh and
then hopefully you can see it one day friend's neighbors,
Nola and I will make a joke trying to crack
the other one up, and then we'll both turn.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, you can probably hear the sounds of our next
whipping around over to Casey.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Approve of us, Casey for.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
A nod, just any kind of errant glance, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, we we hinge on it, and we do so
in the spirit of decorum conversations between gentlemen. This episode
is about something that is very under chorous, and I
wanted to open with a question. Don't have to answer,
don't feel obligated. I was hoping it was going to
(03:41):
be a song. No question in the form of a song.
Give it to me. Have you ever mooned someone? No,
you haven't, not that I recall that.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Okay, yeah, that's that's incriminating. I mean no, I don't
have a distinct memory of I mean yeah, okay, yeah,
I mean you know, a girlfriend. Now I'm getting too personal.
That sounds weird, you know, a little cheeky flash, you know,
a little flash of the cheek, but not as an insult, right,
not as not to degrade someone.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
No, sir, I will tell you a true story that
stays just between you, Casey, me and everyone listening to
this show. Hey, we're all friends here. I did I
did moon someone once as an insult. In high school. Yeah,
it was my junior year. There was a villain, a
(04:37):
bully in my high school. He was the year above me.
And the kid was a sack of bricks from the
neck up. The not the brightest crayon in the box.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Oh, I thought you meant like he was built like
a brick ship house. He was also a big dude.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, and he made life miserable for my friends and I.
And there was a gas station and that people would
go to every day after school to hang, to pick
up sodas, to try to mac on each other and whatnot.
And this guy was advertising one day near the end
(05:13):
of the school year. He was advertising a house party
at his place, and he drove a jeep he thought,
of course he did, Yeah, an open air jeep. And
he thought it would be a great idea for him
to strip down to his skivies, put on a sandwich
board sign advertising his house party, and walk up and
down the street between the school and the gas stations
(05:36):
like a punishment. We really didn't like this guy, me
and my posse, and so while we were at the
gas station, spur the moment, terrible impulse. Don't try this
at home, kids. We took his clothes out of his
jeep and then we drove by in my car and
stopped and then mooned him and drove away waving his clothes.
(06:00):
He ran in his underwear to his jeep, reared off,
chasing after us. And it was also the first day
I mooned someone as an insult. Was also the first
day I got involved in a car chase.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Okay, the bully didn't murder anybody. He chased you a
little high speed card chase, a little bit of a
fist shaking. But you know, no lives were lost in
this particular mooning incident.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, Well, we don't have to go to the rest
of the story too, but but yeah, it's just just
the mooning part is pertinent for today's episode because you
are right, Mooning, for some reason, is universally acknowledged as
an insult to someone right, it's not like another form
(06:44):
of a wave. Right. And in today's episode, you and
I discovered a story about just how far back the
practice known as mooning goes. And maybe this is over
explaining it, but what do you think do you think
we should tell people, just in case they're hearing this,
tell people what mooning actually is.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, I mean if they haven't figured it out by
now or didn't already know, I'm worried about them.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But why don't we do it? Mooning?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
The act of mooning bearing your moon, be hind quarters,
your backside, dropping trout dropping, or lifting a kilter or
skirts and lifting the kilter the skirt like in Brave Heart.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Remember that.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, apparently some historical truth to that, but it was
actually flipped around the other way. It was it was
the English mooning the Scots.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Because I believe in the film the Scottish forces show
their backside but then also show their front size.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
That's right, don't they doing about face? Or that was
the double the moon and the sun.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It was very choreographed as well, so that's interesting. I
didn't know that that was the English.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
That's what Yeah, apparently in real real life skis but
we're going back to what some have dubbed the original moon, Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
The earliest recorded mooning. According to many sources, it goes
all the way back to the first century AD, the
very first one, the very first one. And to tell
the story, we're relying on an author named Josephus Boyd
Josephus man Young Fesus himself.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Hey, I know, I mean, he's got an interesting story
all his own, But let's let's start with the initial
story that Josephus has to tell us about this historical
display of ours.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yes, yes, okay. So Josephus wrote a book called the
Jewish War, and in this book he tells a story
of a very strange event that occurred between the Jewish
people and the occupying Roman soldiers.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So Roman force is during what's dubbed the Pax Romana,
which is kind of interesting considering that means piece of Rome.
But it wasn't so peaceful. There were outright rebels, and
there were revolts brewing in this land against these occupying forces.
And there were a lot of factors at play, because
there were religious zealots who wanted to purify the Jewish faith,
(09:22):
and then there were ones that were a little more
amenable to their invaders, you know, and we're kind of
okay with continuing with this way of life as long
as they were able to maintain some of the tenets
of their Jewish faith. So we're seeing here in Josevis's
story is a clash involving some of those more zealous forces.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah. Yeah, because whenever there is an occupying force, there
is inevitably going to be some sort of tension, and
this situation was no different. Imagine if you can living
in a city where in you and your entire community
(10:05):
are under the thumb, whether benevolent or whether brutal. You're
under the thumb of foreign forces, an alien culture that
doesn't hold the values you hold, that doesn't believe in
the traditions that you have practiced since time immemorial. Obviously
there's going to be some tension. Noel, I think you
(10:26):
did a fantastic job laying out the differences between these groups.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And we're not going to go all the way into
every nuance of this, but there is a lot of
back and forth in this conflict between Rome and the
people of Israel, ultimately resulting in the Romans being expelled
and largely massacred. But that's almost a whole episode unto
itself that is pretty heavy and full of bloodshed. We're
(10:53):
talking about moonings today.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That's right, that's right. So the situation becomes incredible tense
during the passover season because crowds and crowds of people
are flocking to Jerusalem, and this is a powder keg.
Any small excuse could become the feather that breaks the
(11:16):
Camels back in terms of war. And there's an excellent
recount of this in a book called the Jewish Revolts
against Rome ad Sixty six to one thirty five, a
military analysis by James J. Bloom. So here's the situation.
The Roman prefect, who is in charge of these occupying forces,
(11:40):
would routinely post soldiers atop battlements so that they could
have an unparalleled or superior view of the proceedings of
the pilgrimages, the visitors the passover.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Make sure no one was stern any stern any mess.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, no domestic unrest, right, And he was in charge
at this point. Do you remember Cestius Gallus, Yes, sir,
that's the one. Yes. So he he had these soldiers
looking for any sign of agitation because at least from
the prefect's perspective, no one wanted to quote Michael Jackson.
(12:19):
No one wanted to be starting something. But unfortunately those
plans went awry because of a single Roman soldier.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, this unnamed soldier thought it'd be real cute if
he did the thing in question here, pulled down as
his what did he have, like a skirt? Yeah, he uh,
like one of those battleskirts. He had something covering his
took as he removed it. And I'm guessing no, he
was commando because you know, he was kind of a soldier.
(12:49):
I guess where's the term coming from. Man, going commando?
Do you really think commandos didn't wear underpants? That that
seems to be a bad idea. Seems like you'd get
swamp ass.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, it seems like, especially if you're on a commando mission,
you would want all the protection you can have. So
I think going commando dates back to the Vietnam War
at least that's when it got popular because people would
say that these folks, these commandos went without underwear to
(13:20):
increase ventilation and reduce moisture. Oh so they dried out
the other way. Yeah, it still doesn't make sense. No,
it's fine.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Anyway, we digress. This particular fellow. Sure seems like he
had easy access to his bits.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah right, because he didn't.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You know, you don't see it written that he you know,
gingerly removed his breeches.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No, it's he like pulled up something and.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Let it fly. And to quote the account, you want
to do this, Ben, I think this. I think if
you care to this is are you sure, yeah, I'll
do it. I'll do it Joe cephas, and I realized why.
I think that's funny. I think of bo Cephis, which
is the nickname for leave Hank Williams Ocephis.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So that's I can never separate this too.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
But yeah, Joe Cephis describes the historical mooning as such,
one of the soldiers raising his robe, stooped in an
indecent attitude so as to turn his backside to the Jews,
and made a noise in keeping with his posture. Does
that mean a he let fly at a toot?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That means he either either he actually flatulated, or the
version that I think is for some reason much funnier
is he leaned over and made the noise with his mouth.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah, Oh, yours is better there's there's different No, but
I put my hands on my face.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
He couldn't have done that.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
He definitely couldn't because he was holding his skirts, robe, rope, skirt, whatever. Yeah,
and this, this did not go over well, my friend,
because these were pilgrims on a during a very high
holy time.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Right, yeah, it's a holy it's a very serious, somber,
thankful time.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And they're already beefed up with these Roman jerks, you know,
who are just hanging around when they're.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Skirts Boston people around spears. Well, yeah, honestly, it's tremendously
offensive to deride somebody's religion at any point, but especially
when they're in the middle of one of the most
important celebrations they have.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I'm trying to picture this too. Can you picture this scene?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Like?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
What, how is this guy able to make himself such
a display?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
You know, because he was on that battle man, he's
on raised ground. But the other thing that's weird about
this is that we know very little about his motivation
other than that he was, as Josepha says, contemptuous. You know, so,
was it something where he had had some strong wine
and had one of those hold my beer moments?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yes, he had drained his wine skin. Yes, yeah, you know,
up on the up on the battlements in the hot sun.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Or was he really just a sober, bad tempered person.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, because ben, I mean, it's pretty clear from the
history here that neither side cared much for the other.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Right, well, why would you if you were if you
were a Jerusalem native, Yeah, why would you be buddy
buddy with these people?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
There was some weird side switching though, and our boy
Josephus was one of these defectors. He initially was actually
put in command of a force of rebels on the
Jewish side, and then hopped sides over to the Roman side,
(16:43):
and he ended up becoming the historian that told these accounts.
And he is considered by many historians to be particularly
manipulative and untrustworthy. So he's kind of an unreliable narrator here,
But it's all we've got, and it's, you know, a
primary source because he was there. But he also may
well have been a bit of a self aggrandizing liar.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Right, Yeah, that's that's the thing. So his his lifetime,
he was born in thirty seven CE or thirty seven
ad C for common era ad for after the death
of Jesus Christ and no dominie yes, nail on the head. No.
And he died around one hundred CE. And so when
(17:27):
we go to this record of this earliest recorded mooning,
it's him writing about this event far after the fact.
But he was definitely involved in the political and military
conflicts of the time. He was, you know, as as
you said, the head of Jewish forces in Galilee until
he surrendered in sixty seven to Roman forces, right, and
(17:52):
then he decided to stay on. He had been a slave,
he had been an interpreter, very fascinating life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely,
we have to take it with a grain of salt
when we hear the stories as told primarily by Josephus,
(18:14):
is he writing to sort of polish his own image.
Is he factually reporting, and if so, to what degree
he is held up in the Jewish community.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
It seems as being at least an important chronicler of
some of these battles because he was there. But even
in this article I found from a beautifully named website
called the jew Niverse, they describe him as a famously
self aggrandizing ancient historian. But he wrote such works as
The Jewish War which is where this account is from
(18:44):
Jewish antiquities and against apion.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, that's a two volume defense of Judaism as classical
religion and philosophy. Is very well written, prolific man.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yes, and speaking of that, and actually found a translation
of the incident, call it that. I much prefer this
is just the wording is which one is this? It's
just it's in this article in the universe, and it's
just it's the same. It's obviously the same text as
what we read a minute ago. I just think this
particular translation is way more fun. This one describes the
soldier as that he pulled back his garment and cowering
(19:19):
down after an indecent manner, turned his breach to the
Jews and spake such words as you might expect upon
such a posture.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I love the idea of that he spake. Yes, Now
this makes us think whether there is a difference in translation.
Was he making a farting noise with his mouth? Was
he saying something offensive like, you know, uh, snarf my
butt people? I don't know, Ben, what ever?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Did I think those words would let fly from those
luxurious lips of yours?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Thank you, thank you. It's called a cupid's bow in
the top one. So, uh, I don't we don't think
they said snarf. We're speculating there. But despite the fact
that many people nowadays love a good bit of crass,
butt oriented humor, there's a time and a place for it.
(20:10):
And that was true in this instance, because the crowd
did not react well to this. No one was like,
look at that.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
But yeah, I started going down that path earlier. I
think we got distracted with more butt related lore. But yeah, no,
this did not go well. This did not go well.
And also that commander we were talking about, Gallas, Yeah,
he was kind of considered a bit of a dunderhead
or like a bit of kind of an overreacting adult
(20:40):
when it came to being a military superior. And there
have been a lot of incidents leading up to this
that were already causing a lot of divisive feelings between
the Jews and their occupiers. I believe there was some
destruction of some sacred scrolls and just just in general
bad behavior here on the part of these occupying forces
(21:02):
toward the religion of the natives.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yes, so you can read an excellent article about this
from history Net. The Great Siege of Jerusalem by Ralph Peters,
which details some of the context leading up to this.
And we have to establish that because it's easy to
look at this single incident in a vacuum and say, sure,
(21:29):
mooning someone may be impolite, but it's not a cause
for citywide pandemonium. So this was something that was happening
in addition to many profoundly offensive and disrespectful things burning
sacred scrolls, that's a huge one. But also there were
(21:50):
recent crises that had occurred in Afghanistan at the time,
and they also strong armed the temple priest into making
a mass of payment to Rome, so they were stealing
from the people as well. That's right.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Was that the Pharisees, they were all these different classes,
and I believe that Josephus was initially part of the Pharisees,
and they were a sect of priests that get sort
of a bad rap because of their place in the
Bible and their interactions with Jesus and the idea of
the Pharisees and the money changers and all that of
being the sign of greed and hypocrisy. But they were
(22:28):
largely responsible for preserving some of the important religious texts
of this faith. So there's a lot of interesting stuff
in the history of the Jewish people, really really fascinating stuff.
I mean, they were a kingdom, you know, yeah, the
Kingdom of Judea, and like the Maccabees, and you know,
they were always able to fight off their occupiers and
they were constantly be inject with right.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, Rome was one in a series.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, I mean initially there was the Persian conquest, and
there was the Hellenistic period with Alexander the Great, and
there was even this sense of a lot of the
a lot of Jews, parts of sects of the society,
wanted to become Hellenized. They wanted to become more Greek
and kind of abandon the old ways. So there's always
the struggle between religious zealous people that want to like
(23:14):
keep the faith pure and you know, more fair weather
Jews that I think want to be more assimilated into
their invading culture.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Right, Assimilation is the word, and the threat of assimilation
looms large, right, and not just in this situation, but
in situations throughout history. And so it is within this
rich and dangerous cultural soil that this seed of discord,
this act of mooning by an unidentified Roman soldier of Moony. Yeah,
(23:45):
sprouts and spreads because not only do the people not
like it, not only does no one go but stuff, No,
the people riot.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Oh yeah, no they ass out.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Ok. I think that's fine, I think it's appropriate.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, but no, I mean they're you know, this assembled
crowd of thousands, I mean upwards of over thirty thousand,
because that is the number reported.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That were killed by Josephus. Yeah. Yeah, he says that
the riot occurs, and all told, when the dust settles,
thirty thousand people Jewish and Roman lost their lives. And
part of this, this is a little bit maybe outside
of the documented facts here, but part of this we
(24:34):
can assume would be due to Gallas's incredibly belligerent and
bellicost nature.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
And just utter skittishness, right because he called in the
troops big time, over corrected, and then gave the order
to you know, fire adam boys sticking with spears.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Right right, an over response. He's sent in Roman soul
not just to quell the riot or calm the people,
but to punish and injure them, and that is what
sprouted the seat. Now we don't have any information of
what that unknown Roman soldier was doing as he was
(25:17):
on the battlement watching this riot occur. Did he go
down to attack some of these innocent men, women and children?
Did he just stay up there thinking that he had
discovered one of the world's most amazing and dangerous insults,
The Adam Bam of rude physical gestures, Adam Bum, the
(25:39):
Adam Bum. There we go. So we don't know what
happened to him, but we do know that this is
the earliest recorded mooning. So if you have ever been mooned,
or if you like you're bullying, probably broke his mind.
He probably drove him, mad man, you know, Okay, okay,
(26:00):
last thing I'll say about that doll. It was a
car of us. Were you doing, Peasant under glass? What's that?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Are you pressing your bare butts against the window?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I mean one guy definitely was one of the guys
in the back Pheasant under Glass. I had no idea
that is such a classy moment, such a crass So
I guess, So I guess so Pheasant underglass.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Well, that's an advanced moon that's like some next level mooning.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So whether you have mooned someone have been mooned before.
We hope that this episode helps you be aware that
you are either the victim of or the practitioner of
an ancient form of derision.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
But Ben, I want to talk about more historical mooning, So.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Glad you do know. Off air we were looking into
some really unusual and fascinating ones. What do you got?
What do you got? Ben?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
I really appreciate you letting me go first. You know
how much how much I love this topic. We both
found and have been really enjoying a fantastic article on
slate dot com the very classy name mooning, a History
by Forrest Wickman mentioned briefly earlier, the whole brave heart
(27:13):
sun and moon gesture thing was actually flipped the other
way around. It was the English taunting the Scottish with
their butts. I think this article was think a good
way to start here is just let's talk about let's
get back to the coinage of the term mooning, because
you see, Ben, while this act was ancient, it didn't
(27:35):
really get a proper name until the nineteen sixties, when
the Oxford English Dictionary got an entry for the word
that attributed it to student slang of the sixties. Because
it became a really popular thing to do in university
in America specific exactly. And that's important because I believe
(27:57):
that the description the use of the word moon as
a euphemism for butt or buttocks dates back to the
seventeen hundreds or the eighteenth century. But the reason I
think it's interesting that it's traced to American or US
student slang is because American English is notorious for the
(28:20):
practice of turning every single word into a verb. You
and I have done it on multiple shows. Yeah, like Squatching,
Yeah exactly, from the Sasquatch episode.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah exactly. So it's it's nice to know that that
linguistic tradition precedes us. But I'm so fascinated by the
fact that this act has been described multiple times in literature,
in fiction and nonfiction, and they didn't come up with
a convenient term for it for centuries, for heck, for millennia.
(28:52):
We know that we know that during the Fourth Crusade
and twelve three Western Europeans were to take Constantinople, but
they failed and they sailed away in defeat. And as
they were sailing away, the Byzantine forces who did at
them hollered at them and quote showed their bare buttocks
(29:14):
in derision to the fleeing foe derision.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
You say, yeah, because this act you're essentially like sexually
harassing someone from afar that is.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And then I guess, I guess it is somewhat counterintuitive
because in the animal world often when other mammals show
their posterior to a creature, it's an active submission.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Right, It's like, hey, come, come, get you some of this, right.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
But yeah, so now it's clearly it is. So, of course,
where would we be if we did not mention one
of the most well known retellings or depictions of mooning
in the English language, And that is, of course, the
Miller's tale from Chaucer's The Canterbury.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Tales Old Saucy Chassi And there's baldy body Canterbury.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Tales Chos the sauce. That's him. There you go. So
in the frame story of the Canterbury Tales, a group
of people who are traveling decide to travel together and
to pass the time in their travels, they tell each
other's stories. These people are described often by their occupations.
(30:29):
So there's a partner, for instance, who carries relics and
charges people to get close to these religious artifacts. And
then there is the Miller, who is in a wild
plot twist the miller, But we have a very saucy
tale from the Miller himself. We're not going to read
the whole thing, but there are some parts that we
think you will find choice.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Oh, Ben, can we do the back and forth where
one of us is the old Englishman and the other
is the translator?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
For sure? Which one do you want to do?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Can I be the translator? I feel like you have
a little more expertise when it comes to this work.
I believe he studied in.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
The school I did, but my pronunciation is going to
be terrible.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I wish Jonathan Strickland, the quizzer, was here in his
Renaissance fair regalia. He would lean into this hard. He'll
tell you what he might be here.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We never know. Let's launch a channel. Yeah, let's go this.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
So, just so we don't have to read the whole thing,
can you give us a little quick and dirty of
how we get to the part that we're about to start?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah. So the Miller's tale is this story
about a carpenter and his wife and these two students
or clerks that are trying to get her into bed.
The Carpenter's a guy named John, and he lives knocked
for his wife is a lot younger than him, and
she is known as the local hobby. Right.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Isn't this like a cuckolding story kind of, isn't there?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah? Yeah, And what we'll do, without going into the
without going into the entire setup to the story, will
read you the juicy bit where in a character named
Absalom attempts to pursue this wife romantically.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And there's some climbing up a ladder into a window
kind of action going on here.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So let us begin, lemon, thy grace and sweet bird.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Then, oh, sweetheart, your favor, and sweet bird, your kindness.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
The window she undooth, and that in haste she unlatched
the window. Quickly, have do quote, she come on, then
speed thee fast, go ahead, she said, come on, and
do it quickly, lest that our neighbors thee a spy. Yeah,
in case our neighbors see us, this Absalom gon wipe
his mouth full dry. This Absalom began to wipe his
(32:47):
mouth dry. Dirk, was the night as pitch or as
the cool.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
The night was dark, yeah, like pitch or coal.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
And at the window out she puts here whole.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
And to help the window, she put her whole.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
We're a family show. Okay, okay, okay, and absalom him
feel no better, newares this confuses me. And as for Absalom,
it happened no better nor worse. But with his mouth
he kissed her naked URRs.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
So body, they teach this in school, man.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
This is a We're still a family show.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
A translation if he couldn't use your imagination there but
with his mouth, But with his mouth he kissed her
naked arse full savorly are He was war of this
most enjoyable. Before he realized what he was kissing.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
A back He's start and thought it was a mess.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Back he started and thought something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Here we go for well, he wished a woman hath.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
No bird, for he well knew women have no beards.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Like we have a slow im.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I'm applauding for Chaucer and also for Ben Bowleen and
your fantastic old English.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Uh brugue, what do you call that? Elish whatever? Whatever?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Old brown ladies and gentlemen, you're too kind. Let's hear
it for super producer Casey Pagrie. Yeah, we're making this alive.
Can we also hear it for a regular contributor, Lori
l Dove. She didn't really contribute anything to this episode,
but I just don't want to hear it's delight.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
And while we're thanking everyone, let's give it up friends
and neighbors, for Alex Williams, who composed our track, and
for our research associate Christopher Hasiotis, who spoiler alert this
show and who spoiler alert needs a sound effect. Yeah, yeah, Casey,
we defer to you, NI give me later. We'll just
(35:00):
you know, put it on the back burner. We'll work
you know what right to us and let us know
what you think is what do you think when you
hear Hasiotis?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I think about the infamous club, the Hacienda owned by
the guy that you know discovered Joy Division and New
Order and all that stuff. Remember have you seen the
movie twenty four Hour Party people?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh yeah, that's great, Wow, great movie that come out.
It was like the early two thousand Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
And most importantly, give it up for yourself.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Cann If you want to pat yourself on the back,
give yourself a handshake.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Don't be weirded out if people are looking at you,
you are your self affirming.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Play Rock paper scissors with yourself, see what happens.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Tell us who wins. Please. In the meantime, we hope
that you enjoyed our exploration of the history of Moony
at least a fraction as much as we have clearly
enjoyed diving into it.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I'm just tipsy with delight and sour.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Our journey ends for today. That's the end of our episode,
but not our show. Tune in again very soon for
more ridiculous history and last, but certainly not least, and
we promise not bare butt related. We're going on tour.
If you happen to be in Philadelphia and would like
(36:17):
a little bit of historical what would you call it,
no historical entertainment, Shenanigan.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Sure, Yeah, we bring the pain, historical pain. That sounds
not fun, you know what I mean? Yeah, I bring
the fun, the fun pain, And we're going to bring
our butts, yes, which will remain squarely covered with our pentaions.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, that is the ridiculous history guarantee of quality. We
will have our pants on the whole time. But yes,
the rumors are true. You can find us on tour
July first in Philadelphia, along with our longtime pals and
founders of Mental, Flossy Mango, and will It's True. They
are the host of part Time Genius Won't You? If
(37:00):
you happen to be in town.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
You can find ticket information at phillypodfast dot com. They
are on sale right now and it's at four o'clock
on Sunday, July first, at the Trocadero Theater. So come
get ridiculous with us in a live setting. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(37:24):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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