September 19, 2026 • 31 mins
The 588th Night Bomber Regiment didn't have the best equipment, and they didn't have the best planes. What this all-female bomber regiment did have, however, was unstoppable ambition, brilliant strategies and dozens of fearless pilots. Listen in to learn more about the rise of the terrifying force the German soldiers called die Nachthexen -- the Night Witches.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning with this week's classic
episode as we are moving to the best time of
the calendar year. We wanted to talk about witches.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, well, a little early.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
But not so early that it's egregious. I'm okay with
the Halloween decorations and candies rolling out a month ahead.
But this is a fun episode that was released originally
in July of 2019. Not very Halloween-y at all. So
we're doing a better job this time around. And it
also turns out that it's not actually about witches at all.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, it's a cool, it's a spiffy name. We're really
talking about the 588th Night Bomber. They didn't have the
best equipment. They did not have the best planes. You
could call them a little bit ragtag.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And what set them apart from some of their cohorts
was the fact that this was an all-female bomber regiment
where they lacked in equipment. They made up for in
moxie strategy, ambition.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And they terrified German soldiers so much that the 588th
gained a street name can you do it in German
for us?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Thank you, Ben. Thank you. Thank you. I want it
to so bad. Denach Texan.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
The Night Witches. Let's roll it. Ridiculous History is a
production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank
(01:54):
you so much for tuning in. My name is Ben.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
My name is Noel.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And today we are joined, as always, with our super producer,
Casey Labouche-Pagram. Give it up for him, folks.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I just did a weird thing, Ben. I said my
name the way I say it on our other show,
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know, because you didn't
start off with a pithy little scene like you usually do.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
It threw me.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Ah, yes, well, it's... It's a different recording time for us.
We've been doing a lot of weird scheduling shuffling, and
I'm not in my afternoon bin yet.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
You're not in your history zone?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Not quite, not quite, but we're in a bit of
a spooky zone, and we're talking about an adventure. I
do have something that does relate slightly. Today's show concerns
a pivotal role of women in aviation, and I don't
know if I ever mentioned this to you, But my grandmother,
one of my grandmothers, was actually a pilot or trained
(02:56):
as one in World War II.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I did not know that then.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
It's a true story, Noel. It's a true story. She
was a teacher. And in the part of the world
where she resided, one of the local programs that the
government was supporting was to train teachers, some teachers, to
be pilots in World War II. I don't think she
ever passed. shot anyone out of the sky.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
No, that's, that's okay. I mean, she's, you can still
be a badass and not have any kills under your belt.
I mean, being a pilot in any kind of war
situation is gotta be absolutely harrowing.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, even comparing world war two
to the modern day, the planes are just so much
more dangerous and a dog fight is kind of like
a knife fight. You know, I don't know if you
guys have ever Casey, have you ever been in a
knife fight that you'd be willing to talk about on air?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
None that I'm willing to disclose on air. That's, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Not even in your private life as LaBouche?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, like I said, that I'm willing to disclose on air.
So you can think what you want to think.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know what they say, though, you guys? They say
never bring a knife to a dog fight.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
That is true.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Or a dog to a knife fight, because that would
just be cruel.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, that's no good.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
No, it's definitely no good. Casey on the case. Speaking
of which, I am absolutely thrilled to be wearing... One
of our patented Casey on the Case t-shirts right now
featuring a delightful photo of young Casey Pegram in his
Macy's catalog modeling days.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, like Macy's or JCPenney.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
One of those.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
One of those, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
You can get one for yourself by going to tpublic.com
slash ridiculous history where we have an assortment of fine
garments or mouse pads or what have you available.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Perhaps an Upton's ad, if anybody remembers Upton's.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Upton's?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I remember Upton's. It's a department store similar to Dillard's
or Macy's.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, it's just another one of those anchor stores at
the mall, but I think they went away.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Also, for anyone who's thinking, oh, man, I would love
a shirt like that. Why don't I have one right now?
Don't worry, folks. I'm thinking the same thing. I got
a little snaked, so I'm going to have to find
one for myself. I'm right there with you. Today's story,
the protagonist of today's story, deserve T-shirts all their own
at the very least. Our story does take place in
(05:05):
World War II. It does not take place in the U.S.
It takes place in the Nazi-occupied Soviet Union where German
soldiers had a very real and very profound fear of witches,
but maybe not the kind of witches you might automatically imagine, right?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well, no, maybe not, but it certainly was maybe tying
into kind of a cultural fear. you know, witches loomed
large in German culture, right? Hansel and Gretel, surely others,
you know, Germans are notoriously afraid of witches. Everybody knows that,
but you're right. They were afraid of a very particular
type of witches who were members of the all-female night
(05:42):
bomber regiment, which was part of the Soviet air forces.
And these women flew over 30,000 missions over the course
of three years, dropped 23,000 tons of bombs on the Nazis.
And they did all of their flights under the cover
of night, earning them the nickname the Night Witches.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And this name did not arrive entirely because of the
time during which they chose to make these bomb runs.
It also came about because of their approach. They were
very difficult to detect because they used a very dangerous strategy.
Their planes were made of plywood and canvas. And the best...
(06:27):
way that the German soldiers could know there was a
night witch in the area or scouting them out was
they would hear the soft whoosh of a plywood and
canvas plane. So it's literally like someone silently flying and
then hearing a whoosh followed by a cavalcade of explosions.
(06:50):
So each of these planes had a pilot and a navigator,
all female. Let's talk a little bit about how they
came to be. So June of 2019 marks the 77th
anniversary of the beginning of the Night Witches. And there's
a lot of context that pours into this because in
June of 1941, Axis powers pushed into the USSR using
(07:16):
the largest invading force in the history of war, Not
the history of Russian war, not the history of European war,
the history of human war.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
That's like saying the history of the world.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Exactly, exactly. For example, the infamous Operation Barbarossa saw about
4 million troops invade Russia from the West. And because
of this operation, Russian leaders began to worry that Moscow
itself might be overtaken.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, it's true. And this was, in fact, one of
the most... Bloody and violent, terrible military actions considered atrocities,
known for its atrocities in World War II. These atrocities
were perpetrated against the Russians by the Nazis. And the soldiers,
the male soldiers of the Soviet Union were heading up
(08:04):
the front lines when the forces from the Axis powers
invaded and overtook the capital of Russia. Right, right.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
World War II losses of the Soviet Union from all
related causes were about 27 million people. And that's a
ballpark estimate counting civilian and military.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I mean, they were essentially treated like cannon fodder, right?
They were treated as utterly expendable by the Allied forces, right?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So the USSR had several big things going for it
in World War II. One, the terrain is notoriously damaged.
notoriously dangerous and inhospitable. And second, they had a lot
of manpower. So the idea was maybe they could overwhelm
opponents through the sheer force of numbers alone. But this really,
(08:53):
this is where we get into things like scorched earth strategies,
the kind of mentality that says, I will, I, like,
it's sort of like what's similar to the people in
Fukushima or Chernobyl who, killed themselves, committed suicide to save
the greater population. As people are fighting for what they
(09:14):
see as the greater good, everyone is involved. No one
is not at war in Russia at this time. And
from the very beginning of the USSR involvement in the war,
there is already an active female Soviet pilot. You may
have heard her called the Russian Amelia Earhart. Her name
is Colonel Marina Raskova. And while she was an active pilot,
(09:38):
she started receiving letters from women all across Russia who said, look,
I want to join the war. I want to help
any way I can. Let's fight these Nazis. Let's get
these Germans off our land. And many of them would say,
you know, I work as in a support role, right?
Like I work at a factory making armaments or I
(10:01):
work at a hospital or something, but I want to
be on the front lines.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
They didn't end up being quite on the front lines
because those male Soviet soldiers we talked about who were
on the front lines were getting creamed. So the Red
Army commanders were absolutely... desperate and needed something to help
turn the tide of battle. So in October of 1941,
Stalin himself posted Raskova to head up an all-female squadron,
(10:31):
air squadron to be specific. And this is a historical
thing because this was the only air squadron that was,
according to records, all-female. And it was the 588th Night
Bomber regiment.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And the pilots weren't the only women in the regiment.
Everyone in the 588th was female, from the pilots to
the commanders to the mechanics.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That's right. So this team began to assemble in 1942.
Their ages ranged from 17 to 26 years old, and
they took up residence in a small village by the
name of Ingalls, where they started training. Roscova personally headed
up this training. And she did not take any crap
(11:19):
from anybody. She was a very hard-nosed instructor and commander.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yes. There's a great article about this called The Little
Known Story of the Night Witches, an all-female force in
World War II, published in Vanity Fair as well as
Atlas Obscura by author Eric Grundhauser. And in this, he
depicts the way that Raskova immediately immersed her trainees into
the program. They had to shave their heads, right? They
(11:47):
had to wear size 42 boots. Supply chain issues were
already in full effect at this time in Russia's military history.
So they didn't have custom uniforms. They had to wear
these bulky, ill-fitting uniforms that were made for dude soldiers.
And one of the pilots said it was kind of
(12:09):
a rough landing for her on the first day. She said,
we didn't recognize ourselves in the mirror. We saw boys there.
And the problems with adjusting to the pre-existing supplies didn't
stop with the uniforms, unfortunately. It continued on to the planes.
(12:31):
They were flying these planes called Polikarpov PO-2s. These are
two-seated open cockpit biplanes. These are the plywood ones I
was mentioning earlier with the canvas stretched over them. They
have absolutely no armor. They're already obsolete by the 40s.
These are the kind of things that really incentivize you
(12:52):
to fly quietly and in a sneaky way because one
shot and boom, you're gone. Kind of like my old
Saturn SC car I had.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Wrap that one around a tree.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Really?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Are you okay?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Okay, that's fair. These are probably unrelated, though, right?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
These are unrelated. This had nothing to do with World
War II.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
That's fair. Now, Ben, remember the Red Baron? Yes. Was
he exclusively a Peanuts character, or was that actually a
historical fighter pilot? Guy makes great pizza. That's also true.
But seriously, I really don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Oh, no, I do not. I mean, there's pepperoni.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
No, the Red Baron. He was a Prussian fighter pilot.
The idea of a plane being made of wood and
canvas is unusual, but it wasn't that unusual, right? Because
this was like cheap material. It was lightweight. Again, it
was quiet.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Right, exactly. And in previous conflicts, something like this, this
style of biplane aircraft would have been fine. It's just
so many years had passed and there was already better
technology out there, these planes were also pretty slow. And
because they had a slower stall speed than the standard
German fighters at the time, it made it tough for
(14:05):
the Axis or the German forces to actually shoot them.
It's kind of like when there are two cars racing
and one of them maybe, let's say, is a truck
with a big block engine and it can pick up speed.
But once it gets up to a high speed, it
has a tough time slowing down. So what would have
ordinarily been a disadvantage for these aircraft actually made them
(14:27):
tougher to hit. Also, again, these are exposed cockpits, and
this is Russia.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Oh, my God. I can only imagine. Again, that's why
I picture the Red Baron. There's also a detail about
these planes that did not give them a particularly good advantage.
They had to fly pretty low, which would make sense
for them to be flying at night. But, gosh, during
a regular dogfight during the day, it seems very, very challenging.
You'd be kind of like a sitting duck. But here's
(14:54):
a question, too, Ben. These open cockpits, like they wore
some kind of like protection over their faces, right, to
keep them from. Sure.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Goggles and probably the probably the whole nine, the leather,
the little skull cap thing with the strap that you
would buckle under your chin. Yeah, I would imagine so.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
But here's the thing. The women of the 588th were unthwarted.
They were absolutely ready to go and do whatever it took.
to pitch into the war effort. So after their first
bombing run, which took place on June 1942, they absolutely,
not obliterated, but definitely slowed down the Nazi forces with
(15:32):
these overnight bombing runs and continued till the end of
the war.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, yeah. At their height, so it started first bombing
on June 8th, 1942. And at the height of their strength,
they had 42-person crews, each which were flying, get this
multiple runs as soon as the sun set. The record
would be like 18 runs a night. Why would you
(15:57):
make 18 incredibly dangerous bombing runs, you may ask? It's
because the planes could only carry six bombs at a time.
So as soon as they dropped those six, provided they survived,
they flew back, got another six bombs, and then flew
back again. This meant that there was also a tightly
controlled weight limit. That's part of why they flew at
(16:18):
lower altitudes, but that's also the reason they could not
bring parachutes. Jeez.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That is pretty bold. And using that cover of night
was crucial. There was no way around it. The three
planes would leave at one time, and then two would
kind of act as almost– or they would draw fire,
enemy fire, and then the last one would do the
bomb run. And they also had to, like, Prius-style, like,
(16:49):
kill their engines so that they would just glide over
it before they dropped their payload.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And then start the engine again.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
And then start the engine and get out of there.
I mean, absolute badassery.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, and there's some psyop going on here as well because–
The whooshing sound, we already mentioned that freaked the German
soldiers out, but they are also the source of the
name Night Witches. Once they had learned that this was
indeed a crew of female combatants and bombers, the misogyny
(17:22):
kicked in, and it was even more injurious to them
on some level that they were getting creamed by female
forces instead of Russian dudes. And the Germans started, you know,
in the fog of war, so much strange speculation thrives.
The Germans started saying that the Soviet forces were changing
(17:44):
the women somehow, experimenting on them to give them, quote,
the night vision of a cat.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
That's right. The Germans would have referred to them natively
as the Nachthexen or the night witches. And one of them, Nadetsia? Popova,
I'm going to go with that one, she flew roughly
850 missions, and she received the title of Hero of
the Soviet Union. And in Albert Axel's book, Greatest Russian
(18:14):
War Stories, 1941 to 1945, she's quoted as saying, this
was nonsense, of course. What we had were clever, educated,
very talented girls.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Ooh.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And fighting against this, for some reason, tell me what
you think about this, folks. For some reason, this gives
me a League of Their Own vibe in a much
more dangerous field because they had to deal with fighting
a war against ruthless opponents, but they also had to
deal with misogyny from people who should have been supporting them.
(18:49):
Members of the Soviet military were still very dismissive of
the idea of women flying in general, let alone in combat.
They wouldn't give these soldiers, these pilots, these mechanics, anyone
on the 588th, the credit they deserved at the time.
And the inspiring thing here, especially for any of us
(19:11):
listening who have been in a situation where you have
to confront institutionalized misogyny, these women doubled down. They didn't care.
They were not cowed. they did not say, Oh no,
let's let the dudes fly the planes or whatever. They said, yes,
we're women. We're pilots. We're killers. We do what we want.
(19:33):
And if you have a tough time with it, go
pout somewhere else. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
But unfortunately the, the brass, you know, the Russian military
brass weren't super kind to, to these women. And I
think there was even like a, incentive in among the
germans to to uh any to give a an iron
cross which i think was one of the highest um
awards you can get in the german army if you
shot down one of these women so they were hated
(19:59):
on both sides just kind of a kind of a
rough situation to be in.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Fortunately While the wheels of justice grind slow, they grind
exceedingly fine. And the members of the Night Witches were
eventually recognized, such as the example you had mentioned earlier,
Noel Popova, who got the title of Hero of the
Soviet Union and the multiple medals. By the end of
(20:26):
World War II, the 588th had flown around 30,000 bombing
raids worldwide. which translates to 23,000 tons of explosives or munitions,
they also lost a lot of people. They lost 30
pilots during the war, which is an unbelievably low number
(20:49):
when you consider what those planes were made of, their
technical constraints. And the fact that these people were often
using the same strategy repeatedly, not over the course of
the war, but sometimes as much as 18 times a night.
You know what I mean? Like how many times if
you're in charge of the searchlight on the German side,
(21:11):
how many times do you fall for that? Two planes
fly in opposite directions without checking where the bombs are
coming from, you know?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, that's a really good question. They weren't even given
their own sized uniforms. They had to take kind of
tattered hand-me-downs from other soldiers who I don't know if
they had like died or what, but that'd be pretty morbid.
But no, they were absolutely treated like second class citizens.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
You know, this is it reminds me.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Have you seen that video that compares men's soccer and
women's soccer? And it's like a scene from American Sniper
where it's Bradley Cooper as the sniper and it shows
him like, you know, cocking back the gun and like
looking through the scope. And then you see him shooting
at a male soccer player and they fall down and
like grab their knees and start like cringing and crying
because apparently in male soccer. dudes are just always taking
(22:07):
dives because it's like it gives them an edge or
they're able to get like penalty. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Because unless the referee absolutely sees what happened, they can't
say you're faking.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
It is technically, I think, and someone tell us more
about this. I believe it's technically on the books. illegal
to do that but it's very tough to prove.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It there's lots of footage of it and then compare
that with footage of women's soccer where they literally stand
up and spit their teeth out and just keep you
know marching forward um there is absolutely an element to
that in this story uh so popova who we spoke
about earlier in an article from the atlantic there's a
great great quote from her talking about walking away from
(22:50):
a bombing raid with 42 bullet holes in her little
wooden plane You would think it would have just shredded
the thing, Ben. Like, I mean, God, to take a
hit like that in the air in a plane made
of wood and like canvas, that is just absolutely terrifying.
I can't imagine having that level of bravery. Right.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And let's also consider how young a lot of these
people were. They were not experienced soldiers. They were ranging
in age from 17 to 26. And many of us
who have had military service in the background may say, well,
I've met some people in their mid-20s who unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Have a ton.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Of a very, very harrowing experience fighting domestically and abroad.
That's true. But at this time, in 1941, until Stalin
gave these orders, no other nation officially allowed women to
engage in combat. Previously, women could help transfer planes and ammunition,
(23:47):
after which they would say, all right, it's time for
the boys to take over or whatever. And when the
Night Witches did this, Again, we cannot overemphasize how it.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Was a crappy gig. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
It was a crappy gig.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
They didn't even get things like radar, guns, and radios.
They had to use rulers, stopwatches, flashlights, pencils.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
And not to poo-poo the Soviet Union or anything too much.
That's not what we're here to do. But if you
have read about the story of Chernobyl, you realize that
a lot of the equipment that the folks had were substandard.
They didn't have enough radiation suits. They didn't have meters
that even reached the levels of contamination that were present
(24:30):
in some of these situations. So that seems to be
sort of a legacy thing, having, you know, kind of
substandard equipment.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yes. Oh, and I want to clarify there. When we
said six bombs apiece, that's six bombs per raid, not
six bombs per plane. The planes could each only carry
two bombs at a time, one under each wing. So
when three planes flew out, that was a total of
six bombs they could drop while the other two members
(24:56):
of the flight or the raid were running scrimmage or
making a distraction there. They also had, this was really cool,
this is something I couldn't find in full yet, and
I'd love to hear if someone else has found this.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
The commandments?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Uh-huh, the 12 commandments of the Night Witches. The one
that we found in the first one was be proud
that you are a woman. There are 11 others. We've
got we've got to find them. The last flight of
the night, which is took place around May 4th, 1945.
(25:33):
At this time, they flew within 37 miles or 60
kilometers to everybody in any country other than what the U.S.,
Namibia and Myanmar.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
They they got.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
37 miles or 60 kilometers close to Berlin. And this
was three days before Germany officially surrendered. We do know
that the Germans had two theories about why these women
were successful. Spoiler alert, neither of those theories have anything
to do with their ability as pilots or as professionals.
(26:08):
The first theory is that they had been given these
special injections and experiments that turned them into pilots. people
with supervision. And the second was that they were all
criminals who were masters at stealing, like the idea of
the Russian thief-in-law, and had been sent to the front
line as punishment. So they were conscripted, hardcore criminals. That's
(26:29):
the only way they could get away with these cunning,
brazen acts.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And during that really pretty brief four-year period, 41 to 45,
the night which is operated, they lost 30 pilots. And
then the 23 pilots, not all of them, but 23
of the remaining pilots, including Popova, who we talked about earlier,
were given that very high honor of heroes of the
Soviet Union. Interestingly enough, the squad was never disbanded and
(26:57):
it actually just was given a new name and continued on.
And it was called the much less intriguing sounding 46th
Taman Guards Night Bomber Aviation Regiment. which continued to be
a mainstay in the Soviet Union's mixed gender forces.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And we should also mention that they weren't just raining death.
They also performed 155 supply drops of food and ammo
to Soviet forces. And here's one of the last facts
I found. Let's file this under that's a kicker. Despite
being the most highly decorated unit in the Soviet Air
(27:34):
Force during the war, After they were disbanded and became
part of this other grouping, there was this big Victory
Day parade in Moscow. And the Night Witches were not
included because, according to the management, their planes were too slow.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
But that's like the whole point, man. That's not their fault.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I know.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
They were forced to use those planes. They were given
the leftovers.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Maybe they should have had the parade at night. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Seriously.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
To keep it on brand.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Aren't parades pretty slow usually, though? I mean, I don't
see how that would be a detractor.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, I don't know. I've never organized a Victory Day
parade after a war. Although I do want to go
to New Orleans and hire my own parade. Do you
know you could do that? I told you that, right?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
No, what?
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, next time I'm in New Orleans, I think parade
prices are incredibly reasonable in New Orleans. And you can,
especially in the off season, you can pay a group
of people, not particularly princely some, and they'll just do
a parade for you.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
How much are we talking?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
A few hundred, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
And does this include floats?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
No, this would be, I think we're talking a few hundred.
We're talking about just the musicians. Which I think is great.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Like a second line parade. It feels like a better parade.
That would be a lot more fun. I don't need
a float that's in the shape of my giant head. No, no.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Custom floats. You're getting into Mardi Gras territory. I don't know.
What about Casey? Would you ever have a parade? Would
you ever purchase a parade for yourself?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
No, definitely not.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
For someone else then?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, maybe for somebody else. If they did something really,
really special. Maybe, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Casey on the case. I am going to embarrass the
hell out of you when we get to New Orleans, Casey.
Just forget about it and act surprised later.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Will do.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I think that's all we got for today, right, Ben?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, yeah. So ends our tale of the heroic Night Witches,
one of the chapters of World War II history that
I think is very, familiar to a lot of our
Russian listeners, but maybe news to some of us in
the West. We want to hear your stories of other
World War II heroes or strange tales that you think
(29:52):
your fellow listeners would enjoy. You can find us on
Facebook at Ridiculous Historians. You can also find us on
Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, and if you want to find us individually on Instagram,
I hang out with my kid and occasionally travel, mainly domestically,
but I'm hoping to get out of the country one
of these days too so I can match Ben's sick
Instagram adventures. But my slightly more underwhelming adventures are at HowNowNoelBrown.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I think you're beating yourself up there a little bit, Noel.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
It's a thing I do.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Circumstances will probably find both of us overseas sooner than
you think. In the meantime, you can find me getting
kicked into and out of various places at Ben Bolin,
named to what I would only describe as a burst
of creativity. But hey, guys, you might be saying, I...
I don't really like the social needs, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.
(30:39):
Those aren't my cup of vodka or cup of needs.
There we go. But I do have an email. I
got around to that. So can I just contact you
guys that way? We have good news for you. You
can email us directly. We are ridiculous at I heart
radio dot com. Big thanks to our super producer, Casey Pegram,
as always. Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Christopher Haciotis,
(31:01):
friend of the show, friend inside of our hearts. Gabe Luzier,
also Yves Jeffcoat, who will be on our show pretty soon,
spoiler alert. And we'd like to welcome Ryan Barish.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Welcome to the family, Ryan Barish, who will be helping
us with some research moving forward. See you next time, folks.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning with this week's classic
episode as we are moving to the best time of
the calendar year. We wanted to talk about witches.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, well, a little early.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
But not so early that it's egregious. I'm okay with
the Halloween decorations and candies rolling out a month ahead.
But this is a fun episode that was released originally
in July of 2019. Not very Halloween-y at all. So
we're doing a better job this time around. And it
also turns out that it's not actually about witches at all.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, it's a cool, it's a spiffy name. We're really
talking about the 588th Night Bomber. They didn't have the
best equipment. They did not have the best planes. You
could call them a little bit ragtag.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And what set them apart from some of their cohorts
was the fact that this was an all-female bomber regiment
where they lacked in equipment. They made up for in
moxie strategy, ambition.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And they terrified German soldiers so much that the 588th
gained a street name can you do it in German
for us?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Thank you, Ben. Thank you. Thank you. I want it
to so bad. Denach Texan.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
The Night Witches. Let's roll it. Ridiculous History is a
production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank
(01:54):
you so much for tuning in. My name is Ben.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
My name is Noel.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And today we are joined, as always, with our super producer,
Casey Labouche-Pagram. Give it up for him, folks.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I just did a weird thing, Ben. I said my
name the way I say it on our other show,
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know, because you didn't
start off with a pithy little scene like you usually do.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
It threw me.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Ah, yes, well, it's... It's a different recording time for us.
We've been doing a lot of weird scheduling shuffling, and
I'm not in my afternoon bin yet.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
You're not in your history zone?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Not quite, not quite, but we're in a bit of
a spooky zone, and we're talking about an adventure. I
do have something that does relate slightly. Today's show concerns
a pivotal role of women in aviation, and I don't
know if I ever mentioned this to you, But my grandmother,
one of my grandmothers, was actually a pilot or trained
(02:56):
as one in World War II.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I did not know that then.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
It's a true story, Noel. It's a true story. She
was a teacher. And in the part of the world
where she resided, one of the local programs that the
government was supporting was to train teachers, some teachers, to
be pilots in World War II. I don't think she
ever passed. shot anyone out of the sky.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
No, that's, that's okay. I mean, she's, you can still
be a badass and not have any kills under your belt.
I mean, being a pilot in any kind of war
situation is gotta be absolutely harrowing.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, even comparing world war two
to the modern day, the planes are just so much
more dangerous and a dog fight is kind of like
a knife fight. You know, I don't know if you
guys have ever Casey, have you ever been in a
knife fight that you'd be willing to talk about on air?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
None that I'm willing to disclose on air. That's, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Not even in your private life as LaBouche?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, like I said, that I'm willing to disclose on air.
So you can think what you want to think.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know what they say, though, you guys? They say
never bring a knife to a dog fight.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
That is true.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Or a dog to a knife fight, because that would
just be cruel.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, that's no good.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
No, it's definitely no good. Casey on the case. Speaking
of which, I am absolutely thrilled to be wearing... One
of our patented Casey on the Case t-shirts right now
featuring a delightful photo of young Casey Pegram in his
Macy's catalog modeling days.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, like Macy's or JCPenney.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
One of those.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
One of those, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
You can get one for yourself by going to tpublic.com
slash ridiculous history where we have an assortment of fine
garments or mouse pads or what have you available.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Perhaps an Upton's ad, if anybody remembers Upton's.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Upton's?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I remember Upton's. It's a department store similar to Dillard's
or Macy's.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, it's just another one of those anchor stores at
the mall, but I think they went away.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Also, for anyone who's thinking, oh, man, I would love
a shirt like that. Why don't I have one right now?
Don't worry, folks. I'm thinking the same thing. I got
a little snaked, so I'm going to have to find
one for myself. I'm right there with you. Today's story,
the protagonist of today's story, deserve T-shirts all their own
at the very least. Our story does take place in
(05:05):
World War II. It does not take place in the U.S.
It takes place in the Nazi-occupied Soviet Union where German
soldiers had a very real and very profound fear of witches,
but maybe not the kind of witches you might automatically imagine, right?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well, no, maybe not, but it certainly was maybe tying
into kind of a cultural fear. you know, witches loomed
large in German culture, right? Hansel and Gretel, surely others,
you know, Germans are notoriously afraid of witches. Everybody knows that,
but you're right. They were afraid of a very particular
type of witches who were members of the all-female night
(05:42):
bomber regiment, which was part of the Soviet air forces.
And these women flew over 30,000 missions over the course
of three years, dropped 23,000 tons of bombs on the Nazis.
And they did all of their flights under the cover
of night, earning them the nickname the Night Witches.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And this name did not arrive entirely because of the
time during which they chose to make these bomb runs.
It also came about because of their approach. They were
very difficult to detect because they used a very dangerous strategy.
Their planes were made of plywood and canvas. And the best...
(06:27):
way that the German soldiers could know there was a
night witch in the area or scouting them out was
they would hear the soft whoosh of a plywood and
canvas plane. So it's literally like someone silently flying and
then hearing a whoosh followed by a cavalcade of explosions.
(06:50):
So each of these planes had a pilot and a navigator,
all female. Let's talk a little bit about how they
came to be. So June of 2019 marks the 77th
anniversary of the beginning of the Night Witches. And there's
a lot of context that pours into this because in
June of 1941, Axis powers pushed into the USSR using
(07:16):
the largest invading force in the history of war, Not
the history of Russian war, not the history of European war,
the history of human war.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
That's like saying the history of the world.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Exactly, exactly. For example, the infamous Operation Barbarossa saw about
4 million troops invade Russia from the West. And because
of this operation, Russian leaders began to worry that Moscow
itself might be overtaken.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, it's true. And this was, in fact, one of
the most... Bloody and violent, terrible military actions considered atrocities,
known for its atrocities in World War II. These atrocities
were perpetrated against the Russians by the Nazis. And the soldiers,
the male soldiers of the Soviet Union were heading up
(08:04):
the front lines when the forces from the Axis powers
invaded and overtook the capital of Russia. Right, right.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
World War II losses of the Soviet Union from all
related causes were about 27 million people. And that's a
ballpark estimate counting civilian and military.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I mean, they were essentially treated like cannon fodder, right?
They were treated as utterly expendable by the Allied forces, right?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So the USSR had several big things going for it
in World War II. One, the terrain is notoriously damaged.
notoriously dangerous and inhospitable. And second, they had a lot
of manpower. So the idea was maybe they could overwhelm
opponents through the sheer force of numbers alone. But this really,
(08:53):
this is where we get into things like scorched earth strategies,
the kind of mentality that says, I will, I, like,
it's sort of like what's similar to the people in
Fukushima or Chernobyl who, killed themselves, committed suicide to save
the greater population. As people are fighting for what they
(09:14):
see as the greater good, everyone is involved. No one
is not at war in Russia at this time. And
from the very beginning of the USSR involvement in the war,
there is already an active female Soviet pilot. You may
have heard her called the Russian Amelia Earhart. Her name
is Colonel Marina Raskova. And while she was an active pilot,
(09:38):
she started receiving letters from women all across Russia who said, look,
I want to join the war. I want to help
any way I can. Let's fight these Nazis. Let's get
these Germans off our land. And many of them would say,
you know, I work as in a support role, right?
Like I work at a factory making armaments or I
(10:01):
work at a hospital or something, but I want to
be on the front lines.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
They didn't end up being quite on the front lines
because those male Soviet soldiers we talked about who were
on the front lines were getting creamed. So the Red
Army commanders were absolutely... desperate and needed something to help
turn the tide of battle. So in October of 1941,
Stalin himself posted Raskova to head up an all-female squadron,
(10:31):
air squadron to be specific. And this is a historical
thing because this was the only air squadron that was,
according to records, all-female. And it was the 588th Night
Bomber regiment.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And the pilots weren't the only women in the regiment.
Everyone in the 588th was female, from the pilots to
the commanders to the mechanics.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That's right. So this team began to assemble in 1942.
Their ages ranged from 17 to 26 years old, and
they took up residence in a small village by the
name of Ingalls, where they started training. Roscova personally headed
up this training. And she did not take any crap
(11:19):
from anybody. She was a very hard-nosed instructor and commander.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yes. There's a great article about this called The Little
Known Story of the Night Witches, an all-female force in
World War II, published in Vanity Fair as well as
Atlas Obscura by author Eric Grundhauser. And in this, he
depicts the way that Raskova immediately immersed her trainees into
the program. They had to shave their heads, right? They
(11:47):
had to wear size 42 boots. Supply chain issues were
already in full effect at this time in Russia's military history.
So they didn't have custom uniforms. They had to wear
these bulky, ill-fitting uniforms that were made for dude soldiers.
And one of the pilots said it was kind of
(12:09):
a rough landing for her on the first day. She said,
we didn't recognize ourselves in the mirror. We saw boys there.
And the problems with adjusting to the pre-existing supplies didn't
stop with the uniforms, unfortunately. It continued on to the planes.
(12:31):
They were flying these planes called Polikarpov PO-2s. These are
two-seated open cockpit biplanes. These are the plywood ones I
was mentioning earlier with the canvas stretched over them. They
have absolutely no armor. They're already obsolete by the 40s.
These are the kind of things that really incentivize you
(12:52):
to fly quietly and in a sneaky way because one
shot and boom, you're gone. Kind of like my old
Saturn SC car I had.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Wrap that one around a tree.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Really?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Are you okay?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Okay, that's fair. These are probably unrelated, though, right?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
These are unrelated. This had nothing to do with World
War II.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
That's fair. Now, Ben, remember the Red Baron? Yes. Was
he exclusively a Peanuts character, or was that actually a
historical fighter pilot? Guy makes great pizza. That's also true.
But seriously, I really don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Oh, no, I do not. I mean, there's pepperoni.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
No, the Red Baron. He was a Prussian fighter pilot.
The idea of a plane being made of wood and
canvas is unusual, but it wasn't that unusual, right? Because
this was like cheap material. It was lightweight. Again, it
was quiet.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Right, exactly. And in previous conflicts, something like this, this
style of biplane aircraft would have been fine. It's just
so many years had passed and there was already better
technology out there, these planes were also pretty slow. And
because they had a slower stall speed than the standard
German fighters at the time, it made it tough for
(14:05):
the Axis or the German forces to actually shoot them.
It's kind of like when there are two cars racing
and one of them maybe, let's say, is a truck
with a big block engine and it can pick up speed.
But once it gets up to a high speed, it
has a tough time slowing down. So what would have
ordinarily been a disadvantage for these aircraft actually made them
(14:27):
tougher to hit. Also, again, these are exposed cockpits, and
this is Russia.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Oh, my God. I can only imagine. Again, that's why
I picture the Red Baron. There's also a detail about
these planes that did not give them a particularly good advantage.
They had to fly pretty low, which would make sense
for them to be flying at night. But, gosh, during
a regular dogfight during the day, it seems very, very challenging.
You'd be kind of like a sitting duck. But here's
(14:54):
a question, too, Ben. These open cockpits, like they wore
some kind of like protection over their faces, right, to
keep them from. Sure.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Goggles and probably the probably the whole nine, the leather,
the little skull cap thing with the strap that you
would buckle under your chin. Yeah, I would imagine so.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
But here's the thing. The women of the 588th were unthwarted.
They were absolutely ready to go and do whatever it took.
to pitch into the war effort. So after their first
bombing run, which took place on June 1942, they absolutely,
not obliterated, but definitely slowed down the Nazi forces with
(15:32):
these overnight bombing runs and continued till the end of
the war.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, yeah. At their height, so it started first bombing
on June 8th, 1942. And at the height of their strength,
they had 42-person crews, each which were flying, get this
multiple runs as soon as the sun set. The record
would be like 18 runs a night. Why would you
(15:57):
make 18 incredibly dangerous bombing runs, you may ask? It's
because the planes could only carry six bombs at a time.
So as soon as they dropped those six, provided they survived,
they flew back, got another six bombs, and then flew
back again. This meant that there was also a tightly
controlled weight limit. That's part of why they flew at
(16:18):
lower altitudes, but that's also the reason they could not
bring parachutes. Jeez.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That is pretty bold. And using that cover of night
was crucial. There was no way around it. The three
planes would leave at one time, and then two would
kind of act as almost– or they would draw fire,
enemy fire, and then the last one would do the
bomb run. And they also had to, like, Prius-style, like,
(16:49):
kill their engines so that they would just glide over
it before they dropped their payload.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And then start the engine again.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
And then start the engine and get out of there.
I mean, absolute badassery.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, and there's some psyop going on here as well because–
The whooshing sound, we already mentioned that freaked the German
soldiers out, but they are also the source of the
name Night Witches. Once they had learned that this was
indeed a crew of female combatants and bombers, the misogyny
(17:22):
kicked in, and it was even more injurious to them
on some level that they were getting creamed by female
forces instead of Russian dudes. And the Germans started, you know,
in the fog of war, so much strange speculation thrives.
The Germans started saying that the Soviet forces were changing
(17:44):
the women somehow, experimenting on them to give them, quote,
the night vision of a cat.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
That's right. The Germans would have referred to them natively
as the Nachthexen or the night witches. And one of them, Nadetsia? Popova,
I'm going to go with that one, she flew roughly
850 missions, and she received the title of Hero of
the Soviet Union. And in Albert Axel's book, Greatest Russian
(18:14):
War Stories, 1941 to 1945, she's quoted as saying, this
was nonsense, of course. What we had were clever, educated,
very talented girls.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Ooh.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And fighting against this, for some reason, tell me what
you think about this, folks. For some reason, this gives
me a League of Their Own vibe in a much
more dangerous field because they had to deal with fighting
a war against ruthless opponents, but they also had to
deal with misogyny from people who should have been supporting them.
(18:49):
Members of the Soviet military were still very dismissive of
the idea of women flying in general, let alone in combat.
They wouldn't give these soldiers, these pilots, these mechanics, anyone
on the 588th, the credit they deserved at the time.
And the inspiring thing here, especially for any of us
(19:11):
listening who have been in a situation where you have
to confront institutionalized misogyny, these women doubled down. They didn't care.
They were not cowed. they did not say, Oh no,
let's let the dudes fly the planes or whatever. They said, yes,
we're women. We're pilots. We're killers. We do what we want.
(19:33):
And if you have a tough time with it, go
pout somewhere else. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
But unfortunately the, the brass, you know, the Russian military
brass weren't super kind to, to these women. And I
think there was even like a, incentive in among the
germans to to uh any to give a an iron
cross which i think was one of the highest um
awards you can get in the german army if you
shot down one of these women so they were hated
(19:59):
on both sides just kind of a kind of a
rough situation to be in.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Fortunately While the wheels of justice grind slow, they grind
exceedingly fine. And the members of the Night Witches were
eventually recognized, such as the example you had mentioned earlier,
Noel Popova, who got the title of Hero of the
Soviet Union and the multiple medals. By the end of
(20:26):
World War II, the 588th had flown around 30,000 bombing
raids worldwide. which translates to 23,000 tons of explosives or munitions,
they also lost a lot of people. They lost 30
pilots during the war, which is an unbelievably low number
(20:49):
when you consider what those planes were made of, their
technical constraints. And the fact that these people were often
using the same strategy repeatedly, not over the course of
the war, but sometimes as much as 18 times a night.
You know what I mean? Like how many times if
you're in charge of the searchlight on the German side,
(21:11):
how many times do you fall for that? Two planes
fly in opposite directions without checking where the bombs are
coming from, you know?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, that's a really good question. They weren't even given
their own sized uniforms. They had to take kind of
tattered hand-me-downs from other soldiers who I don't know if
they had like died or what, but that'd be pretty morbid.
But no, they were absolutely treated like second class citizens.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
You know, this is it reminds me.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Have you seen that video that compares men's soccer and
women's soccer? And it's like a scene from American Sniper
where it's Bradley Cooper as the sniper and it shows
him like, you know, cocking back the gun and like
looking through the scope. And then you see him shooting
at a male soccer player and they fall down and
like grab their knees and start like cringing and crying
because apparently in male soccer. dudes are just always taking
(22:07):
dives because it's like it gives them an edge or
they're able to get like penalty. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Because unless the referee absolutely sees what happened, they can't
say you're faking.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
It is technically, I think, and someone tell us more
about this. I believe it's technically on the books. illegal
to do that but it's very tough to prove.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It there's lots of footage of it and then compare
that with footage of women's soccer where they literally stand
up and spit their teeth out and just keep you
know marching forward um there is absolutely an element to
that in this story uh so popova who we spoke
about earlier in an article from the atlantic there's a
great great quote from her talking about walking away from
(22:50):
a bombing raid with 42 bullet holes in her little
wooden plane You would think it would have just shredded
the thing, Ben. Like, I mean, God, to take a
hit like that in the air in a plane made
of wood and like canvas, that is just absolutely terrifying.
I can't imagine having that level of bravery. Right.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And let's also consider how young a lot of these
people were. They were not experienced soldiers. They were ranging
in age from 17 to 26. And many of us
who have had military service in the background may say, well,
I've met some people in their mid-20s who unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Have a ton.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Of a very, very harrowing experience fighting domestically and abroad.
That's true. But at this time, in 1941, until Stalin
gave these orders, no other nation officially allowed women to
engage in combat. Previously, women could help transfer planes and ammunition,
(23:47):
after which they would say, all right, it's time for
the boys to take over or whatever. And when the
Night Witches did this, Again, we cannot overemphasize how it.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Was a crappy gig. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
It was a crappy gig.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
They didn't even get things like radar, guns, and radios.
They had to use rulers, stopwatches, flashlights, pencils.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
And not to poo-poo the Soviet Union or anything too much.
That's not what we're here to do. But if you
have read about the story of Chernobyl, you realize that
a lot of the equipment that the folks had were substandard.
They didn't have enough radiation suits. They didn't have meters
that even reached the levels of contamination that were present
(24:30):
in some of these situations. So that seems to be
sort of a legacy thing, having, you know, kind of
substandard equipment.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yes. Oh, and I want to clarify there. When we
said six bombs apiece, that's six bombs per raid, not
six bombs per plane. The planes could each only carry
two bombs at a time, one under each wing. So
when three planes flew out, that was a total of
six bombs they could drop while the other two members
(24:56):
of the flight or the raid were running scrimmage or
making a distraction there. They also had, this was really cool,
this is something I couldn't find in full yet, and
I'd love to hear if someone else has found this.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
The commandments?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Uh-huh, the 12 commandments of the Night Witches. The one
that we found in the first one was be proud
that you are a woman. There are 11 others. We've
got we've got to find them. The last flight of
the night, which is took place around May 4th, 1945.
(25:33):
At this time, they flew within 37 miles or 60
kilometers to everybody in any country other than what the U.S.,
Namibia and Myanmar.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
They they got.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
37 miles or 60 kilometers close to Berlin. And this
was three days before Germany officially surrendered. We do know
that the Germans had two theories about why these women
were successful. Spoiler alert, neither of those theories have anything
to do with their ability as pilots or as professionals.
(26:08):
The first theory is that they had been given these
special injections and experiments that turned them into pilots. people
with supervision. And the second was that they were all
criminals who were masters at stealing, like the idea of
the Russian thief-in-law, and had been sent to the front
line as punishment. So they were conscripted, hardcore criminals. That's
(26:29):
the only way they could get away with these cunning,
brazen acts.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And during that really pretty brief four-year period, 41 to 45,
the night which is operated, they lost 30 pilots. And
then the 23 pilots, not all of them, but 23
of the remaining pilots, including Popova, who we talked about earlier,
were given that very high honor of heroes of the
Soviet Union. Interestingly enough, the squad was never disbanded and
(26:57):
it actually just was given a new name and continued on.
And it was called the much less intriguing sounding 46th
Taman Guards Night Bomber Aviation Regiment. which continued to be
a mainstay in the Soviet Union's mixed gender forces.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And we should also mention that they weren't just raining death.
They also performed 155 supply drops of food and ammo
to Soviet forces. And here's one of the last facts
I found. Let's file this under that's a kicker. Despite
being the most highly decorated unit in the Soviet Air
(27:34):
Force during the war, After they were disbanded and became
part of this other grouping, there was this big Victory
Day parade in Moscow. And the Night Witches were not
included because, according to the management, their planes were too slow.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
But that's like the whole point, man. That's not their fault.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I know.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
They were forced to use those planes. They were given
the leftovers.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Maybe they should have had the parade at night. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Seriously.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
To keep it on brand.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Aren't parades pretty slow usually, though? I mean, I don't
see how that would be a detractor.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, I don't know. I've never organized a Victory Day
parade after a war. Although I do want to go
to New Orleans and hire my own parade. Do you
know you could do that? I told you that, right?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
No, what?
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, next time I'm in New Orleans, I think parade
prices are incredibly reasonable in New Orleans. And you can,
especially in the off season, you can pay a group
of people, not particularly princely some, and they'll just do
a parade for you.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
How much are we talking?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
A few hundred, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
And does this include floats?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
No, this would be, I think we're talking a few hundred.
We're talking about just the musicians. Which I think is great.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Like a second line parade. It feels like a better parade.
That would be a lot more fun. I don't need
a float that's in the shape of my giant head. No, no.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Custom floats. You're getting into Mardi Gras territory. I don't know.
What about Casey? Would you ever have a parade? Would
you ever purchase a parade for yourself?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
No, definitely not.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
For someone else then?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, maybe for somebody else. If they did something really,
really special. Maybe, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Casey on the case. I am going to embarrass the
hell out of you when we get to New Orleans, Casey.
Just forget about it and act surprised later.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Will do.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I think that's all we got for today, right, Ben?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, yeah. So ends our tale of the heroic Night Witches,
one of the chapters of World War II history that
I think is very, familiar to a lot of our
Russian listeners, but maybe news to some of us in
the West. We want to hear your stories of other
World War II heroes or strange tales that you think
(29:52):
your fellow listeners would enjoy. You can find us on
Facebook at Ridiculous Historians. You can also find us on
Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, and if you want to find us individually on Instagram,
I hang out with my kid and occasionally travel, mainly domestically,
but I'm hoping to get out of the country one
of these days too so I can match Ben's sick
Instagram adventures. But my slightly more underwhelming adventures are at HowNowNoelBrown.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I think you're beating yourself up there a little bit, Noel.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
It's a thing I do.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Circumstances will probably find both of us overseas sooner than
you think. In the meantime, you can find me getting
kicked into and out of various places at Ben Bolin,
named to what I would only describe as a burst
of creativity. But hey, guys, you might be saying, I...
I don't really like the social needs, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.
(30:39):
Those aren't my cup of vodka or cup of needs.
There we go. But I do have an email. I
got around to that. So can I just contact you
guys that way? We have good news for you. You
can email us directly. We are ridiculous at I heart
radio dot com. Big thanks to our super producer, Casey Pegram,
as always. Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Christopher Haciotis,
(31:01):
friend of the show, friend inside of our hearts. Gabe Luzier,
also Yves Jeffcoat, who will be on our show pretty soon,
spoiler alert. And we'd like to welcome Ryan Barish.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Welcome to the family, Ryan Barish, who will be helping
us with some research moving forward. See you next time, folks.
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Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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