In this week's Classic episode: when the schoolteacher who would come to be called Hong Xiuquan first heard of the Christian religion, he wasn't particularly bowled over. However, when he had a nervous breakdown after failing his scholarly exams, he experienced a series of visions that he later believed revealed his true destiny: He was the younger brother of Jesus Christ, and he was meant to lead his followers to earthly and spiritual freedom. Tune in to learn how Hong Xiuquan's visions sparked one of the bloodiest rebellions in Chinese history.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a
classic episode from twenty nineteen which absolutely rocked our world.
It's a story not often told in the West. It's
about a guy named Hong chi Huan who calls himself
the younger brother of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I don't remember that chapter that Jesus had a younger brother.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Well you might not either.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
That's because it isn't in the Bible. But Hong believed
himself to be related to Jesus Christ. He was a
school teacher, and he had a bit of a mental
health crisis after failing his scholarly exams that seemed to
result in a series of visions that showed him his
(00:46):
true calling and his destiny.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, it's weird because a lot pretty often in history
when people have these visions, they never get a vision
of them being an unimportant person.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Is that weird? Now?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Usually a little bit self aggrandizing. It's almost as if
the vision was within you.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yes, just so, And our pal Hog doesn't become some
itinerant guy just telling people he knows Jesus Christ personally.
His visions end up sparking one of the deadliest rebellions
in all of Chinese history. A twist ending Let's roll
(01:28):
the tape. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeart Radio.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeart Radio. Hi everyone,
(02:02):
Welcome to the show. In a previous episode, you may
have noticed that I took great pride in dropping the
C word cult. Cult itself can be a dicey phrase, right,
Most people who are participated in a religious organization do
(02:24):
not care for their organization to be referred to as
a cult.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, one's one man's religion. It's another man's cult, sure,
man or woman or whatever have you. It's a very
divisive term because it's thrown around as a term of abuse.
But there certainly our criteria when you check the boxes
that tend to line up more with cult than religion.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Right, Yeah, way back in the day, my pal Matt
and our mutual pal Matt Frederick, we made a great
video about how to tell whether or not you are
in a cult. Please do check it out on YouTube
or wherever you watch videos. Stuff. They want you to
know how to start a cult. I can't remember. And
(03:05):
you know, we all like the idea right of starting
a cult? Do we well, I just assume you don't
like that idea, you know, on my go to I
feel like it's a natural tendency. I feel like in
another life, I've probably started several cults. But if you
think about it, if you take away the glamour, it's
a very tedious life. It's a lot of work. Whether
(03:26):
you're just a follower of a cult or you're the
leader of a cult, you're basically on call all the time.
You don't really get vacation. You probably don't make a
lot of money. We always hear about these famous violent cults,
but what about those cult leaders who are out there,
you know, just grind it every day. They got like
fifteen people with them. And what about the cult leaders
the time forgot ben? What about them? What of them?
(03:47):
I am glad you asked nol and we Oh, we've
also got to alert our super producer, Casey Pegrim Casey.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
This is going to be a weird one. I'm absolutely
in the cult of Casey.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
By the way, yeah, yeah, yeah, the coec see takes time.
Are you do you subscribe to the newsletter.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I subscribe to the newsletter. I get the Spotify playlists.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'm all about it I do. I like to wait
for his yearly donation period, because if you put in
fifty bucks, you get the tote bag, but if you
put in seventy five bucks, you get the tote bag
and the water bottle. The CC is like the NPR
of cults. It really is, it really is. I appreciate
those pledge drives, Casey, And speaking of cult leaders, today's
story takes us to China in the early eighteen hundreds.
(04:35):
There is a guy named Hong Si Kwan, and we're
we're mispronouncing this name, Hong.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm gonna mispronounce it even worse than you beats. So
you're doing a fine job.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh no, not really. So this this guy, Hong Si
Quan's call him Hong x sure yeah, is born on
January first, eighteen fourteen. He's in New Year's Baby, and
he is the third and youngest son of a poor
Hawka family. His story gets propagandized pretty heavily as it
(05:10):
goes on. So now his origins are a little bit
the sources are a little bit contradictory. Some people say
he was poor, some people say his family was well
to do. But you know, one man's palace is another
man's dumpster. Right, this kind of the idea of success
is relative. But let's learn a little bit more about
(05:31):
Hong haung x as you call him, Noel. What do
we know about this guy?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, we know that he had the dream in his heart,
the twinkle in his eye. He wanted to grow up
and be a scholar. In order to do that, it's
sort of like studying for the bar. Right to be
a scholar in this period in Chinese history, you had
to take this test. You had to memorize these Confucian
(05:56):
texts and take these things called the Imperial Exams. It
was the equivalent of going to college or you know,
getting your SATs or whatever. So all of that kind
of combined into this life or death test more like
the bar because it was like it was such a
big deal. You'd study for it so much that if
you failed it, it was a really crushing blow. And
nobody wants to take the bar twice. Thusly, no one
(06:17):
wanted to take the Imperial Exams twice.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Unfortunately. Oh by the way, less than one percent.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Of the people who took the test pass and Hong
was among those that did not.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes, Yeah, the Imperial Exams are a big, big, big deal,
and that attrition rate is nasty. It is not something
to mess with. Hong, however, does not give up. He
decides to will retake the exams. He travels to a
city in the south, Guangzhou, and he decides he's going
(06:50):
to take the exams again in eighteen thirty six. This
city is amazing at this time. It's a port. It's
a set of culture for the Qing dynasty. But with
all this culture and with all this population and all
this trade, there comes a dark side. You see, a
(07:11):
lot of the trade that goes through this port city
comes from the West, and the West at this time
has one big, big product that they are pushing into
Chinese markets. That's right.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
The British were a huge part of this culture, and
they were bringing in lots of opium that they were
growing in India, where they also held imperial rule essentially,
and they were you know, they didn't have they didn't
hold sway over China per se, but there was a
pretty serious foothold that they had in the Chinese Empire
(07:44):
in the Qing dynasty, correct, Ben.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. So the problem here is
that the country of China is producing all this really
cool stuff that the British forces want tea and t
find China. They literally call the porcelain find China and silk,
of course, and the British don't really have a lot
(08:09):
of stuff that China wants, so there's a trade deficit.
They do, however, have that opium growing in India, and
they double down on this. They're flooding the markets with
opium to the point that it is destabilizing Chinese society.
But you see, not every import is a tangible thing.
(08:32):
Ideas are just as valuable and indeed just as dangerous
as opium, silk, Find China or what have you. So
Hong is walking through the streets of this city thinking
about his exam when he hears a missionary from the
far flung shores of North America proselytizing, which means, you know,
(08:55):
attempting to convert people to his religion, to Christianity. And
this guy doesn't speak Chinese, he doesn't speak Cantonese nor Mandarin,
but he has an interpreter with him. So picture if
you will, you're a kid, You're Hong Ectu're walking through
these crowded, bustling streets and you see a guy probably
(09:16):
standing on an apple box or crate, you know, just
yelling out in English, save yourselves, learn the truth, so
and so, and then there's an interpreter who has to listen.
So there's a little bit of a lag. Sure, And
I don't know whether the interpreter is just calmly remarking
on the things this guy is yelling about, but I
(09:37):
hope he's yelling too at a slight time delay. I
too would like to believe that. Ben. So what happens.
Hong hears him, right.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He hears him, and he doesn't think too much of
it at the time, but he at least you know,
he's gonna he's not gonna be rude.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
He takes the pamphlet. He's got it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
You gotta take the pamphlet. So he takes the pamphlet,
folds it up, saves it for later. And it turns
out that it will end up having a massive impact
on Hong, but not until after this next phase of
the story, where and he fails the exam again and
then proceeds to have something of what you might call
a psychotic breakdown.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Right, yeah, a complete and utter meltdown, nervous breakdown. He
fails the exam twice, and then he takes it a
third time a year later, and he fails the third time.
That's right, and this, yeah, this pushes him to the edge.
He goes home. He says, I feel sick, and he
(10:32):
lays down and he has a fever dream or a.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Vision, a series of visions and feversam and he really
seems sick, like he seems physically ill. His complexion is
all pallid, he is sweating, he is feverish. His parents
are very very concerned about him. So he in his
let's some let's walk through this, yeah, yeah, walk through
the vision or the hallucinations. Yeah, so he is, it's amazing,
(11:02):
It's just amazing. This is like like this should be
a movie. So he hallucinates that he takes a trip,
a sojourn to some sort of paradise, a heavenly land
in the east, and then his father reveals to him
that there are demons that are destroying humanity.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
All right, yeah, I mean I get it, You're on board.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, okay, So then of course he has to have
a special magical sword. He gets a magical sword that's
bestowed upon him by his father, and then with the
help of his brother, they fight the demons and what
he refers to as the King of Hell.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yes, after the battle, he doesn't wake up. After the battle,
he stays in heaven. He gets a wife and they
have a child together. Eventually he returns to Earth bearing
his new title Heavenly King, Lord of the Kingly Way. Way.
His family is not one hundred percent on board with this.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, no, because from where they stand, he's just been
tossing and turning around in bed for days. I mean
there's no not exactly a specific timeline, but I can't
imagine this happened over a period of time. And he
just seems like he's losing it. And he, you know,
he goes from being fully asleep to turning around in
bed and screaming you know, nonsense syllables, to jerking up
(12:29):
right and assuming a fighting stance, and then going back
to bed. I mean, just you know, really really not well.
And he finally wakes up and he explains to his
parents the dream and he had written like this in
the form of poetry that he kind of like dream
journaled when he woke up. It's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Oh, and he also came back with the name Hong
Shi Kwan because his original name was Hong Ho s Yu.
But that father figure he meets in the hallucination tells
him that his given name violates taboos and has to
be changed. So not only is he waking up it's very,
very fantastic story, he's also waking up with a different name.
(13:12):
Everybody in the village thinks this guy is bonkers. If
this guy were a breakfast, he would be nuts and bananas.
It's true, is that a breakfast? Well, yeah, you could
eat like nuts and badana.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
People do that all the time, really like together, like
mixed up with what with oats?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Maybe, sure, oats? Probably yogurt? Okay, people. Yogurt people are crazy, man,
They'll put anything in yogurt. Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
From now on, I think when we say something is insane,
we should refer to it as yogurt.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know what, Let's give it a spin, Let's take
it around. He would make that. Let's we can make
that that catch on it. We might have enemies with
big yogurt.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
But but yeah, so Hong has gone full yogurt and
he is looked upon a skance by the people of
the village.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But he's able, he's able to put it behind him. Yeah,
he gets better quickly, he bounces back. I know.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
He decides to take the exam a fourth time because
of what worked out.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
What happens. He fails, He fails again. He fails a
four time again. It's a very very difficult exam. There's
a lot of corruption involved. Only one percent of the
people who take it will will succeed.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
The one percent of the one percent of the one
percent kind of and seems like a bit of a
classist kind of thing, where.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well, yeah, I mean you have to every what isn't classes.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, that's fair, But what I'm saying is it doesn't
seem to be entirely merit based. Maybe like certain people
have a leg up in passing the exams.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Absolutely absolutely so. He is. He's still in his twenties
at this time, and he has failed this exam, but
thankfully not once, not twice, not three four times, And
he still has a certain pamplet.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
He has that pamphlet. He finds it neatly folded in
his pristinely pressed tunic.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Right. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I'm editorializing here, but he definitely finds it somewhere and
he still to make some connections, doesn't he, because the
tract actually portrayed China as this kind of post apocalyptic wasteland,
which wasn't terribly far off from the truth. I mean,
there was certainly some hyperbole here, but this these opium
wars and the opium addictions that ravids China really destabilized
(15:18):
the country from eighteen thirty nine to eighteen forty two,
and finally it ended with the Treaty of Nanjing, which
really gave Britain the upper hands and allowed them to
be much more of a colonizer, you know, of China.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Right right, absolutely, this is ultimately the reason that so
many Christian missionaries were able to make it into the
country and stay there. As Hang is reading this pamphlet,
he's noticing a stunning similarity between the story of Christianity
(15:58):
and his personal vision, the one he had thought and
he had gotten over. He encounters the words of Jesus
Christ and he becomes convinced. Hong becomes convinced that that
father figure in his series of visions was the Christian
(16:19):
God like the God of Abraham, and that the older Brother,
because remember you mentioned that older brother, and all the
older Brother was Jesus Christ himself, and the quote King
of Hell was the serpent in the Garden of Eden,
and Hong is putting everything together like the very end
of Usual Suspects when spoiler alert three to one, when
(16:43):
the investigator starts looking at the bulletin board and notices
that Kaisers Jose has just been making up stories based
on what he reads around the room. Bro, I did
spoiler countdown and plus its way past the statue, you think, so, yeah, yes,
I mean to scold you. I mean it's fine. So also,
where does spoilers stop? Man? Is it a spoiler to
(17:05):
say that Abe Lincoln passes away or that the Titanic sinks?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So yeah, yeah, we're gonna get some angry emails about
that one because I didn't spoiler alert it.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And it is a movie. It is, in fact a movie,
it's true. So Halling is having this usual Suspect moment
as he's reading through this pamphlet, and he's like, wait,
the father in my dream is God the older brother
in my dream? That's Jesus, the King of Hell? Is
this serpent from this story? Holy smoked? Put two and
(17:36):
two together. I am the son of God.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
It's like Darren Aronofsky trying to describe the plot of
one of his movies.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right, right, So he doesn't take this revelation as a
personal thing, he doesn't hold it close to his heart
and use it as a way to keep his divine
chin up. Instead, he tells his relatives about his dream,
and his message begins to spread. He gets followers. He
must have been very persuasive.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Well, he clearly was tenacious. He kept taking you know,
he let us, like a little little bit psychotic break
stop him from trying to take those exams. So he
clearly had drive. And yeah, he had to have been
very charismatic. And his message started spreading like wildfire.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Cl style, right right. He gathers followers. They go on
the road to evangelize. Right. They're selling ink and brushes
to fund their travels, and Hong begins writing his own
religious works. He writes exportations to worship the One True God,
and this helps him win more converts. He goes back
(18:46):
home to work on more religious writing, but his disciples
continue to travel and they form a group known as
the God Worshiping Society. There's an interesting sociological aspect here
because a lot of his original followers are Hakka people,
the ethnic group Hakka, just like he is, and they
(19:09):
have a relatively lower position in Chinese society. So this
is a message that paints a picture of an alternate
way to live, a world in which you do not
have to be on the bottom just because of your ethnicity.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Which is interesting because sort of in the same way
that el Ron Hubbard found that a religion based on
constantly being rejected by science fiction, you know, publishers and
things like that, a spoiler alert out of well that's fair,
but out of kind of this bitterness and this it
shaped his whole worldview, and Hang was very similar. He
rejected the Confucianist family ideals and the idea of having
(19:50):
to be in that one percent of the one percent
of society and pass those tests, and he built an
entirely new philosophy that was it wasn't Chrischristianity exactly. It
was sort of a twist on Christianity, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, it's you know, if you think about it, it's
a proto version of communism. The stresses sharing property. He
has religious ideas and laws based on the Ten Commandments
of Christianity. Importantly, he promises free land to all of
his followers really, and that's when thousands and thousands more
(20:29):
people start joining up with Hong and the god worshiping society.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And they really start to openly reject the Chin norms
of that time. They chop off their braids. They have
this hairstyle called a queue where you've probably seen it
in films, where their head is shaved, except they have
like one big long ponytail it's in the back. They
cut those off. They start wearing these red turbans as
(21:00):
a symbol of their undying allegiance to Hong, and he
even starts preaching this notion that the Manchu were the
very demons that he fought in his battle with the
King of Hell.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah. Yes, so this is during the Qing dynasty, right,
and the Qing dynasty was founded by the Manchu people,
and they are still regarded as foreigners at this time,
you know what I mean? Yeah, and the Hakka, with
valid reason, don't care very much for the Manchu.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Do we mention that the Hakka were kind of already
a bit of a disenfranchised community. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's that's key because he was able to capitalize on
those feelings of rejection and isolation and not being part
of the same cast system that he was rejected from.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And then when he has the revelation that the demons
in his vision are the Manchu, you know, he begins,
as you said, pushing people to violence. And this marks
the beginning of one of the bloodiest civil wars in
Chinese history. Within two years, Hong and the God worshiping
(22:11):
society have captured the city of Nanjing. There is a
rebellion taking place, folks. Hundreds of thousands of people are
overthrowing the social status quo.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, here's the thing too. Hong really starts doubling down
with his speaking with God kind of angle where he
believes that he has been sent by God as the
son of God because he is a son of God.
He's not Jesus, he's his other son. He's the younger
(22:44):
He's the younger brother of Jesus. And he is here
to change the very course and nature of Chinese society
based on the word of God and what he wants.
So all of in his society, all of his little
kind of sub offshoot society, all of the beliefs of
(23:04):
the Chinese, all of the Confucian techts, are burned. All
those beliefs are scattered and rejected. Got rid of every
single idol or effigy or you know, any anything that
represented the old way right, and even the outlawed opium
because that had been a problem.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
They didn't move one.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That was probably the one one of his good moves.
And heavily segregated men and women.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Officially officially, but not for him, No, not for him.
He had something of a harem in his in his abode.
Very very common with cult leaders, you know what I mean.
From l Ron Hubbard in the Sea Org to David Koresh.
Usually cult leaders have a do as I say, not
as I do sort of approach to their beliefs and laws.
(23:56):
Does he also change the calendar? He does? He changes
the calendar. Dude, that's such a power move. I love
I love that. Yeah, it's like, all right, I'm in charge. Now,
April is done. Now we're calling it. Uh hey, Casey.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I knew you were gonna call me. Then I have nothing.
I have nothing to offer on this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oh sorry, Okay, you'd rather be on the case than
on the spot. Ye okay, okay. Uh so we'll say
instead of instead of April we're gonna call it Lowell, right, sure,
the month of Lowell.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, or how about grapril Yeah, grapril apris I like that.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I like that, so uh okay, yeah. I don't mean
to also casey on the case thank you. I don't
mean to diminish the suffering that Hang is becoming responsible for.
What we see happening now is that the Qing dynasty
notices that society is quickly crumbly.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Dude in the city of Nanjang, he has amassed an army,
and in addition to all of his followers, but a
real legitimate army that can expand this kingdom that he's
creating all over southern China and ends up with more
than thirty million people living inside his little sub kingdom
(25:23):
called the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, which is what they referred
to their new territory as. And this is a real
threat to.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
The powers that be. I mean, this is huge and
they will not let this stand right absolutely. We should
also mention though he did segregate the sexes for his followers,
he took some steps to try to make women more
socially equal to men, so it wasn't all terrible stuff.
But yes, war was very much on the horizon. The
(25:57):
Qing emperor says, I have to raise troops. This may
become an existential conflict, and it does. It becomes one
of the most deadly conflicts in history. So by eighteen
sixty Hong's people, that Taiping were at the height of
their power. They were smashing Qing armies that were besieging Nanjing,
(26:18):
and they were capturing other southern cities Honju Suzu. In
eighteen sixty one, the same year that the US Civil
War starts, the Taiping attacked Shanghai. But Shanghai has been
this international hub, right is where the Western powers go
and they send their boats and they trade their stuff.
(26:40):
And that means that the British and French empires are
not happy to see this fall to a cult movement,
and the Europeans began to bring in their own forces
to protect the city.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Got a question for you, man, that distinction between religion
and cult or movement and cults.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I think thirty million. It sort of kicks it out
of cult territory and it becomes more like.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
A new norm.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, but again we're talking population wise in this in
the country.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Just just for a rough ballpark perspective. Calculations estimates put
the population of China or the Ching Empire at this
time around just under three hundred million.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Got it, so no, no small potatoes, thirty million, but
still certainly not taking hold in a widespread way.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I don't know, man, that's thirty million, lot.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Oh, it's definitely dangerous and they're all hold up, or
a bunch of them are hold up in this one
area and are kicking ass.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, and the European troops arrive to.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Help out their I don't know, buddies, the relationship is
probably a little strange, but it's more to defend their port, right.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Right, absolutely, the opium must flown, you know. The Europeans
come with the latest word, the bleeding edge of military technology,
and they use cannon fire to just tear through the
(28:14):
Typing rebels. The Qing launches a major counter attack and
this occurs at the same time. This shatters the Typing
army and they retreat from the city. They are forced
onto the defensive, and now the Qing dynasty is receiving
support from the West. They begin pushing the borders of
(28:36):
the Heavenly Kingdom back to Nanjing and they're fighting. Think
of it this way. They're fighting what's called a total
war in one of the most densely populated areas of
the planet. Around this time. The country of China alone
is like thirty percent of the world's population. It's a
(28:57):
crowded place, and a total war means that everything is
up for grabs, and everything that can be destroyed probably will.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, And there's no real rules of engagement or anything
like that. I mean, civilians are at risk, utterly at risk,
not just being in harm's way, but resources plundering of
villages from the opposition. When they sack a town or whatever,
they just take what they want and food becomes scarce.
People actually begin to starve to death in the streets.
(29:29):
So I think we're talking millions of people that died brutally.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, the violence combined with the famine led
to millions of deaths. If this were a film, let's
cut to Hong Hong is becoming increasingly yogurt. He has
withdrawn from running his kingdom during the day to day affairs,
(29:56):
directing the armies, rallying the troops. Instead, he hanged out
in his palace with his harem, with his concubines. His
generals begin to fill the vacuum of power, and this
leads to a lot of internal conflict and fracturing of
the kingdom. Hong begins to you know, suspect members of
(30:22):
his inner circle of being traders, and he has very
valid reasons for this. By eighteen sixty four, the Qing
armies are at the gates of the city and Hong's general,
a guy named Lee Sucheng, demands that Hong gtfo right,
get get out of the city.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And now they are who they've been, you know, forced
into retreat and they're holed up behind walls. They've run
a food as well. So what does Hong do? He says, Uh,
We're just gonna drink tears from heaven, you know, eat
mana from heaven?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
What mana like?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
That's like magical energy juice like from the Final Fantasy Games,
I think, But no, he says, And what he was
referring to were like he basically said that God will
nourish us with whatever we put into our bodies. This
is so crazy, it's so crazy, it almost seems made up,
but it's the crazy at So he plucks this.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
What does he do?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
He plucks a weed from the ground and eats it
as a sign they like, see, I'm on board with you,
you know, like I'm just like you guys. And it's
turns out to be deadly poison and he dies.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, yeap, just on a fluke totally, you know. Oh
good God.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
And then as teenage son kind of steps in and
replaces him, but it's too late that the chain are
at the gates. Like we said, they eventually kick down
the doors. Blood bath ensues night Night Kingdom of Heaven.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And the typing rebellion is put down. Estimates very widely,
depending on which historical sources you encounter. You will see
the estimate of the death toll here ringing in it
anywhere between twenty two seventy million people. That makes it
one of the deadliest conflicts in human history, and it
(32:07):
shaped China and therefore the world in ways that carry
over even today in twenty nineteen, all because one guy
had a vision. You know, what if he have passed
his exams? You always have to wonder. It's kind of
like what if Hitler got accepted into art school. Yeah,
I don't know, man, that's true.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
I mean, I think it's with the repeated rejection that
really caused him to break. But you gotta wonder too,
something was off in this guy, So he would have
done some weird stuff in either way.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, and you have to wonder about the country as well.
If not him, would some other kind of event have occurred,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, it's true because the history of China is largely
a series of peasant uprisings, as of the case for
many histories, like the French Revolution, the American earlier. It's
all about rising up against the oppressor, perceived or otherwise.
And the dynasty system was so entrenched culturally that it
was immovable, and so it makes sense that, Like, but
(33:08):
what's so funny, Ben, though, is what's happening is you replace,
you knock down a dynasty, and then you replace it
with your own dynasty, and you become the same thing
that you hated and we're fighting against in the first place. Absolutely,
it happens every time. Maybe one time it'll be different.
Probably not, Okay, probably now look forward to it. I'm
holding my breath. So history tells us that the world
(33:31):
is rife, The world is overflowing with would be messiahs.
We are lousy with people who suspect that they have
divine right to one thing or another, and the modern
age is no different. It's easy for us to say, wow,
that sounds crazy, what the heck was going on in
(33:52):
the eighteen hundreds, But you have to realize in twenty nineteen,
there are plenty of groups in the United States, in
your home country and your neck of the global woods.
I guarantee you there is someone right now who believes
that they are either God or the avatar of God,
or the younger brother of a divine figure. Yeah, first
(34:15):
cousin whatever, Sure, Yeah, why not, man, somebody's got to
be more power to you. Just trying not to, you know,
foment any bloody uprisings.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, do your best, do your best, do your best,
be a good citizen. This was such a crazy story.
It's a story that a lot of Westerners are not
familiar with it.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
And how insane is it that a story involving the
death of twenty to seventy million human beings that took
place over fifteen years at the hands of a psychotic
Christian death cult leader not really a death call, but certainly,
I mean, I stand, we stand by the whole cult thing.
How crazy is that we don't know about that. They
don't teach that in history class.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I don't know. It's it's interesting. It sounds weird because
we do host the history show, but a lot of
stuff happened. Yeah, I don't know, Casey. I'm not going
to put you out in spy here. I just want
to know. Had you ever heard of this story?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
No, this is like all completely new to me in
my mind. Is thoroughly blown.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Absolutely yeah, yeah, bonkers? And how has there not been
a film of this as well? Seems very good film fodder.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
When you Yeah, when you first mentioned it, I was
thinking of Scorsese's Silence, which is also concerns Christianity in Japan.
That's right, and it's kind of somebody also having maybe
a little bit of a savior complex or something. But
a different era, different country, different culture, very different. But
you know it kind of brought that to mind.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, very much. So well, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I think I think the story speaks for itself. I
think we've said it all, so I think it's time
to wrap it up.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Man, what do you say? I never want a cult
story to end, but yeah, I guess I guess I
got it.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
All good cult things must come to an.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Appan I know, I know, and you know when you've
started as many as I have, eventually you wanted.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
To feel I said that was in another life.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Totally so. Thanks to Christopher Hasiotis, Thanks to our super
producer Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Thanks to research associate and pal Gabe Lucier. Thanks to
Alex Williams, who composed.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Our Thanks to you, Noel. Thanks to you listeners for
giving this episode a spin. If the spirit so moves you,
why not drop by your podcast platform of choice and
toss us a rating or review. Yeah, we'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
You can also join us on our Facebook fan page
or community page whatever you want to call it, which
is ridiculous historians. We are on the usual platforms, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.
You can also follow me personally on Instagram at Embryonic Insider.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
And you can find me on Instagram as well. I
am at ben Bowlin. So let us let us know
about the local movements, communes, or dare we say, cults
in your neck of the global woods. Do you think
these groups are innocuous? Do you think they are malevolent?
(37:04):
If so, why or why not? And I'm especially interested
to hear stories of local cults that most people outside
of the area don't know about. Yeah, like Zendig Farms. Yeah, hey, yeah,
Zendig Farms. There are a ton of Florida just to
the south of us, very strange ones too, But yeah,
(37:25):
let us know. We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a
classic episode from twenty nineteen which absolutely rocked our world.
It's a story not often told in the West. It's
about a guy named Hong chi Huan who calls himself
the younger brother of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I don't remember that chapter that Jesus had a younger brother.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Well you might not either.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
That's because it isn't in the Bible. But Hong believed
himself to be related to Jesus Christ. He was a
school teacher, and he had a bit of a mental
health crisis after failing his scholarly exams that seemed to
result in a series of visions that showed him his
(00:46):
true calling and his destiny.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, it's weird because a lot pretty often in history
when people have these visions, they never get a vision
of them being an unimportant person.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Is that weird? Now?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Usually a little bit self aggrandizing. It's almost as if
the vision was within you.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yes, just so, And our pal Hog doesn't become some
itinerant guy just telling people he knows Jesus Christ personally.
His visions end up sparking one of the deadliest rebellions
in all of Chinese history. A twist ending Let's roll
(01:28):
the tape. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeart Radio.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeart Radio. Hi everyone,
(02:02):
Welcome to the show. In a previous episode, you may
have noticed that I took great pride in dropping the
C word cult. Cult itself can be a dicey phrase, right,
Most people who are participated in a religious organization do
(02:24):
not care for their organization to be referred to as
a cult.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, one's one man's religion. It's another man's cult, sure,
man or woman or whatever have you. It's a very
divisive term because it's thrown around as a term of abuse.
But there certainly our criteria when you check the boxes
that tend to line up more with cult than religion.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Right, Yeah, way back in the day, my pal Matt
and our mutual pal Matt Frederick, we made a great
video about how to tell whether or not you are
in a cult. Please do check it out on YouTube
or wherever you watch videos. Stuff. They want you to
know how to start a cult. I can't remember. And
(03:05):
you know, we all like the idea right of starting
a cult? Do we well, I just assume you don't
like that idea, you know, on my go to I
feel like it's a natural tendency. I feel like in
another life, I've probably started several cults. But if you
think about it, if you take away the glamour, it's
a very tedious life. It's a lot of work. Whether
(03:26):
you're just a follower of a cult or you're the
leader of a cult, you're basically on call all the time.
You don't really get vacation. You probably don't make a
lot of money. We always hear about these famous violent cults,
but what about those cult leaders who are out there,
you know, just grind it every day. They got like
fifteen people with them. And what about the cult leaders
the time forgot ben? What about them? What of them?
(03:47):
I am glad you asked nol and we Oh, we've
also got to alert our super producer, Casey Pegrim Casey.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
This is going to be a weird one. I'm absolutely
in the cult of Casey.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
By the way, yeah, yeah, yeah, the coec see takes time.
Are you do you subscribe to the newsletter.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I subscribe to the newsletter. I get the Spotify playlists.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'm all about it I do. I like to wait
for his yearly donation period, because if you put in
fifty bucks, you get the tote bag, but if you
put in seventy five bucks, you get the tote bag
and the water bottle. The CC is like the NPR
of cults. It really is, it really is. I appreciate
those pledge drives, Casey, And speaking of cult leaders, today's
story takes us to China in the early eighteen hundreds.
(04:35):
There is a guy named Hong Si Kwan, and we're
we're mispronouncing this name, Hong.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm gonna mispronounce it even worse than you beats. So
you're doing a fine job.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh no, not really. So this this guy, Hong Si
Quan's call him Hong x sure yeah, is born on
January first, eighteen fourteen. He's in New Year's Baby, and
he is the third and youngest son of a poor
Hawka family. His story gets propagandized pretty heavily as it
(05:10):
goes on. So now his origins are a little bit
the sources are a little bit contradictory. Some people say
he was poor, some people say his family was well
to do. But you know, one man's palace is another
man's dumpster. Right, this kind of the idea of success
is relative. But let's learn a little bit more about
(05:31):
Hong haung x as you call him, Noel. What do
we know about this guy?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, we know that he had the dream in his heart,
the twinkle in his eye. He wanted to grow up
and be a scholar. In order to do that, it's
sort of like studying for the bar. Right to be
a scholar in this period in Chinese history, you had
to take this test. You had to memorize these Confucian
(05:56):
texts and take these things called the Imperial Exams. It
was the equivalent of going to college or you know,
getting your SATs or whatever. So all of that kind
of combined into this life or death test more like
the bar because it was like it was such a
big deal. You'd study for it so much that if
you failed it, it was a really crushing blow. And
nobody wants to take the bar twice. Thusly, no one
(06:17):
wanted to take the Imperial Exams twice.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Unfortunately. Oh by the way, less than one percent.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Of the people who took the test pass and Hong
was among those that did not.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes, Yeah, the Imperial Exams are a big, big, big deal,
and that attrition rate is nasty. It is not something
to mess with. Hong, however, does not give up. He
decides to will retake the exams. He travels to a
city in the south, Guangzhou, and he decides he's going
(06:50):
to take the exams again in eighteen thirty six. This
city is amazing at this time. It's a port. It's
a set of culture for the Qing dynasty. But with
all this culture and with all this population and all
this trade, there comes a dark side. You see, a
(07:11):
lot of the trade that goes through this port city
comes from the West, and the West at this time
has one big, big product that they are pushing into
Chinese markets. That's right.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
The British were a huge part of this culture, and
they were bringing in lots of opium that they were
growing in India, where they also held imperial rule essentially,
and they were you know, they didn't have they didn't
hold sway over China per se, but there was a
pretty serious foothold that they had in the Chinese Empire
(07:44):
in the Qing dynasty, correct, Ben.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. So the problem here is
that the country of China is producing all this really
cool stuff that the British forces want tea and t
find China. They literally call the porcelain find China and silk,
of course, and the British don't really have a lot
(08:09):
of stuff that China wants, so there's a trade deficit.
They do, however, have that opium growing in India, and
they double down on this. They're flooding the markets with
opium to the point that it is destabilizing Chinese society.
But you see, not every import is a tangible thing.
(08:32):
Ideas are just as valuable and indeed just as dangerous
as opium, silk, Find China or what have you. So
Hong is walking through the streets of this city thinking
about his exam when he hears a missionary from the
far flung shores of North America proselytizing, which means, you know,
(08:55):
attempting to convert people to his religion, to Christianity. And
this guy doesn't speak Chinese, he doesn't speak Cantonese nor Mandarin,
but he has an interpreter with him. So picture if
you will, you're a kid, You're Hong Ectu're walking through
these crowded, bustling streets and you see a guy probably
(09:16):
standing on an apple box or crate, you know, just
yelling out in English, save yourselves, learn the truth, so
and so, and then there's an interpreter who has to listen.
So there's a little bit of a lag. Sure, And
I don't know whether the interpreter is just calmly remarking
on the things this guy is yelling about, but I
(09:37):
hope he's yelling too at a slight time delay. I
too would like to believe that. Ben. So what happens.
Hong hears him, right.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He hears him, and he doesn't think too much of
it at the time, but he at least you know,
he's gonna he's not gonna be rude.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
He takes the pamphlet. He's got it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
You gotta take the pamphlet. So he takes the pamphlet,
folds it up, saves it for later. And it turns
out that it will end up having a massive impact
on Hong, but not until after this next phase of
the story, where and he fails the exam again and
then proceeds to have something of what you might call
a psychotic breakdown.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Right, yeah, a complete and utter meltdown, nervous breakdown. He
fails the exam twice, and then he takes it a
third time a year later, and he fails the third time.
That's right, and this, yeah, this pushes him to the edge.
He goes home. He says, I feel sick, and he
(10:32):
lays down and he has a fever dream or a.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Vision, a series of visions and feversam and he really
seems sick, like he seems physically ill. His complexion is
all pallid, he is sweating, he is feverish. His parents
are very very concerned about him. So he in his
let's some let's walk through this, yeah, yeah, walk through
the vision or the hallucinations. Yeah, so he is, it's amazing,
(11:02):
It's just amazing. This is like like this should be
a movie. So he hallucinates that he takes a trip,
a sojourn to some sort of paradise, a heavenly land
in the east, and then his father reveals to him
that there are demons that are destroying humanity.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
All right, yeah, I mean I get it, You're on board.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, okay, So then of course he has to have
a special magical sword. He gets a magical sword that's
bestowed upon him by his father, and then with the
help of his brother, they fight the demons and what
he refers to as the King of Hell.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yes, after the battle, he doesn't wake up. After the battle,
he stays in heaven. He gets a wife and they
have a child together. Eventually he returns to Earth bearing
his new title Heavenly King, Lord of the Kingly Way. Way.
His family is not one hundred percent on board with this.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, no, because from where they stand, he's just been
tossing and turning around in bed for days. I mean
there's no not exactly a specific timeline, but I can't
imagine this happened over a period of time. And he
just seems like he's losing it. And he, you know,
he goes from being fully asleep to turning around in
bed and screaming you know, nonsense syllables, to jerking up
(12:29):
right and assuming a fighting stance, and then going back
to bed. I mean, just you know, really really not well.
And he finally wakes up and he explains to his
parents the dream and he had written like this in
the form of poetry that he kind of like dream
journaled when he woke up. It's pretty impressive.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Oh, and he also came back with the name Hong
Shi Kwan because his original name was Hong Ho s Yu.
But that father figure he meets in the hallucination tells
him that his given name violates taboos and has to
be changed. So not only is he waking up it's very,
very fantastic story, he's also waking up with a different name.
(13:12):
Everybody in the village thinks this guy is bonkers. If
this guy were a breakfast, he would be nuts and bananas.
It's true, is that a breakfast? Well, yeah, you could
eat like nuts and badana.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
People do that all the time, really like together, like
mixed up with what with oats?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Maybe, sure, oats? Probably yogurt? Okay, people. Yogurt people are crazy, man,
They'll put anything in yogurt. Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
From now on, I think when we say something is insane,
we should refer to it as yogurt.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know what, Let's give it a spin, Let's take
it around. He would make that. Let's we can make
that that catch on it. We might have enemies with
big yogurt.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
But but yeah, so Hong has gone full yogurt and
he is looked upon a skance by the people of
the village.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But he's able, he's able to put it behind him. Yeah,
he gets better quickly, he bounces back. I know.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
He decides to take the exam a fourth time because
of what worked out.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
What happens. He fails, He fails again. He fails a
four time again. It's a very very difficult exam. There's
a lot of corruption involved. Only one percent of the
people who take it will will succeed.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
The one percent of the one percent of the one
percent kind of and seems like a bit of a
classist kind of thing, where.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well, yeah, I mean you have to every what isn't classes.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, that's fair, But what I'm saying is it doesn't
seem to be entirely merit based. Maybe like certain people
have a leg up in passing the exams.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Absolutely absolutely so. He is. He's still in his twenties
at this time, and he has failed this exam, but
thankfully not once, not twice, not three four times, And
he still has a certain pamplet.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
He has that pamphlet. He finds it neatly folded in
his pristinely pressed tunic.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Right. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I'm editorializing here, but he definitely finds it somewhere and
he still to make some connections, doesn't he, because the
tract actually portrayed China as this kind of post apocalyptic wasteland,
which wasn't terribly far off from the truth. I mean,
there was certainly some hyperbole here, but this these opium
wars and the opium addictions that ravids China really destabilized
(15:18):
the country from eighteen thirty nine to eighteen forty two,
and finally it ended with the Treaty of Nanjing, which
really gave Britain the upper hands and allowed them to
be much more of a colonizer, you know, of China.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Right right, absolutely, this is ultimately the reason that so
many Christian missionaries were able to make it into the
country and stay there. As Hang is reading this pamphlet,
he's noticing a stunning similarity between the story of Christianity
(15:58):
and his personal vision, the one he had thought and
he had gotten over. He encounters the words of Jesus
Christ and he becomes convinced. Hong becomes convinced that that
father figure in his series of visions was the Christian
(16:19):
God like the God of Abraham, and that the older Brother,
because remember you mentioned that older brother, and all the
older Brother was Jesus Christ himself, and the quote King
of Hell was the serpent in the Garden of Eden,
and Hong is putting everything together like the very end
of Usual Suspects when spoiler alert three to one, when
(16:43):
the investigator starts looking at the bulletin board and notices
that Kaisers Jose has just been making up stories based
on what he reads around the room. Bro, I did
spoiler countdown and plus its way past the statue, you think, so, yeah, yes,
I mean to scold you. I mean it's fine. So also,
where does spoilers stop? Man? Is it a spoiler to
(17:05):
say that Abe Lincoln passes away or that the Titanic sinks?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So yeah, yeah, we're gonna get some angry emails about
that one because I didn't spoiler alert it.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And it is a movie. It is, in fact a movie,
it's true. So Halling is having this usual Suspect moment
as he's reading through this pamphlet, and he's like, wait,
the father in my dream is God the older brother
in my dream? That's Jesus, the King of Hell? Is
this serpent from this story? Holy smoked? Put two and
(17:36):
two together. I am the son of God.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
It's like Darren Aronofsky trying to describe the plot of
one of his movies.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right, right, So he doesn't take this revelation as a
personal thing, he doesn't hold it close to his heart
and use it as a way to keep his divine
chin up. Instead, he tells his relatives about his dream,
and his message begins to spread. He gets followers. He
must have been very persuasive.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Well, he clearly was tenacious. He kept taking you know,
he let us, like a little little bit psychotic break
stop him from trying to take those exams. So he
clearly had drive. And yeah, he had to have been
very charismatic. And his message started spreading like wildfire.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Cl style, right right. He gathers followers. They go on
the road to evangelize. Right. They're selling ink and brushes
to fund their travels, and Hong begins writing his own
religious works. He writes exportations to worship the One True God,
and this helps him win more converts. He goes back
(18:46):
home to work on more religious writing, but his disciples
continue to travel and they form a group known as
the God Worshiping Society. There's an interesting sociological aspect here
because a lot of his original followers are Hakka people,
the ethnic group Hakka, just like he is, and they
(19:09):
have a relatively lower position in Chinese society. So this
is a message that paints a picture of an alternate
way to live, a world in which you do not
have to be on the bottom just because of your ethnicity.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Which is interesting because sort of in the same way
that el Ron Hubbard found that a religion based on
constantly being rejected by science fiction, you know, publishers and
things like that, a spoiler alert out of well that's fair,
but out of kind of this bitterness and this it
shaped his whole worldview, and Hang was very similar. He
rejected the Confucianist family ideals and the idea of having
(19:50):
to be in that one percent of the one percent
of society and pass those tests, and he built an
entirely new philosophy that was it wasn't Chrischristianity exactly. It
was sort of a twist on Christianity, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, it's you know, if you think about it, it's
a proto version of communism. The stresses sharing property. He
has religious ideas and laws based on the Ten Commandments
of Christianity. Importantly, he promises free land to all of
his followers really, and that's when thousands and thousands more
(20:29):
people start joining up with Hong and the god worshiping society.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And they really start to openly reject the Chin norms
of that time. They chop off their braids. They have
this hairstyle called a queue where you've probably seen it
in films, where their head is shaved, except they have
like one big long ponytail it's in the back. They
cut those off. They start wearing these red turbans as
(21:00):
a symbol of their undying allegiance to Hong, and he
even starts preaching this notion that the Manchu were the
very demons that he fought in his battle with the
King of Hell.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah. Yes, so this is during the Qing dynasty, right,
and the Qing dynasty was founded by the Manchu people,
and they are still regarded as foreigners at this time,
you know what I mean? Yeah, and the Hakka, with
valid reason, don't care very much for the Manchu.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Do we mention that the Hakka were kind of already
a bit of a disenfranchised community. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's that's key because he was able to capitalize on
those feelings of rejection and isolation and not being part
of the same cast system that he was rejected from.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And then when he has the revelation that the demons
in his vision are the Manchu, you know, he begins,
as you said, pushing people to violence. And this marks
the beginning of one of the bloodiest civil wars in
Chinese history. Within two years, Hong and the God worshiping
(22:11):
society have captured the city of Nanjing. There is a
rebellion taking place, folks. Hundreds of thousands of people are
overthrowing the social status quo.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, here's the thing too. Hong really starts doubling down
with his speaking with God kind of angle where he
believes that he has been sent by God as the
son of God because he is a son of God.
He's not Jesus, he's his other son. He's the younger
(22:44):
He's the younger brother of Jesus. And he is here
to change the very course and nature of Chinese society
based on the word of God and what he wants.
So all of in his society, all of his little
kind of sub offshoot society, all of the beliefs of
(23:04):
the Chinese, all of the Confucian techts, are burned. All
those beliefs are scattered and rejected. Got rid of every
single idol or effigy or you know, any anything that
represented the old way right, and even the outlawed opium
because that had been a problem.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
They didn't move one.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That was probably the one one of his good moves.
And heavily segregated men and women.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Officially officially, but not for him, No, not for him.
He had something of a harem in his in his abode.
Very very common with cult leaders, you know what I mean.
From l Ron Hubbard in the Sea Org to David Koresh.
Usually cult leaders have a do as I say, not
as I do sort of approach to their beliefs and laws.
(23:56):
Does he also change the calendar? He does? He changes
the calendar. Dude, that's such a power move. I love
I love that. Yeah, it's like, all right, I'm in charge. Now,
April is done. Now we're calling it. Uh hey, Casey.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I knew you were gonna call me. Then I have nothing.
I have nothing to offer on this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oh sorry, Okay, you'd rather be on the case than
on the spot. Ye okay, okay. Uh so we'll say
instead of instead of April we're gonna call it Lowell, right, sure,
the month of Lowell.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, or how about grapril Yeah, grapril apris I like that.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I like that, so uh okay, yeah. I don't mean
to also casey on the case thank you. I don't
mean to diminish the suffering that Hang is becoming responsible for.
What we see happening now is that the Qing dynasty
notices that society is quickly crumbly.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Dude in the city of Nanjang, he has amassed an army,
and in addition to all of his followers, but a
real legitimate army that can expand this kingdom that he's
creating all over southern China and ends up with more
than thirty million people living inside his little sub kingdom
(25:23):
called the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, which is what they referred
to their new territory as. And this is a real
threat to.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
The powers that be. I mean, this is huge and
they will not let this stand right absolutely. We should
also mention though he did segregate the sexes for his followers,
he took some steps to try to make women more
socially equal to men, so it wasn't all terrible stuff.
But yes, war was very much on the horizon. The
(25:57):
Qing emperor says, I have to raise troops. This may
become an existential conflict, and it does. It becomes one
of the most deadly conflicts in history. So by eighteen
sixty Hong's people, that Taiping were at the height of
their power. They were smashing Qing armies that were besieging Nanjing,
(26:18):
and they were capturing other southern cities Honju Suzu. In
eighteen sixty one, the same year that the US Civil
War starts, the Taiping attacked Shanghai. But Shanghai has been
this international hub, right is where the Western powers go
and they send their boats and they trade their stuff.
(26:40):
And that means that the British and French empires are
not happy to see this fall to a cult movement,
and the Europeans began to bring in their own forces
to protect the city.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Got a question for you, man, that distinction between religion
and cult or movement and cults.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I think thirty million. It sort of kicks it out
of cult territory and it becomes more like.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
A new norm.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, but again we're talking population wise in this in
the country.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Just just for a rough ballpark perspective. Calculations estimates put
the population of China or the Ching Empire at this
time around just under three hundred million.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Got it, so no, no small potatoes, thirty million, but
still certainly not taking hold in a widespread way.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I don't know, man, that's thirty million, lot.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Oh, it's definitely dangerous and they're all hold up, or
a bunch of them are hold up in this one
area and are kicking ass.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, and the European troops arrive to.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Help out their I don't know, buddies, the relationship is
probably a little strange, but it's more to defend their port, right.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Right, absolutely, the opium must flown, you know. The Europeans
come with the latest word, the bleeding edge of military technology,
and they use cannon fire to just tear through the
(28:14):
Typing rebels. The Qing launches a major counter attack and
this occurs at the same time. This shatters the Typing
army and they retreat from the city. They are forced
onto the defensive, and now the Qing dynasty is receiving
support from the West. They begin pushing the borders of
(28:36):
the Heavenly Kingdom back to Nanjing and they're fighting. Think
of it this way. They're fighting what's called a total
war in one of the most densely populated areas of
the planet. Around this time. The country of China alone
is like thirty percent of the world's population. It's a
(28:57):
crowded place, and a total war means that everything is
up for grabs, and everything that can be destroyed probably will.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, And there's no real rules of engagement or anything
like that. I mean, civilians are at risk, utterly at risk,
not just being in harm's way, but resources plundering of
villages from the opposition. When they sack a town or whatever,
they just take what they want and food becomes scarce.
People actually begin to starve to death in the streets.
(29:29):
So I think we're talking millions of people that died brutally.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, the violence combined with the famine led
to millions of deaths. If this were a film, let's
cut to Hong Hong is becoming increasingly yogurt. He has
withdrawn from running his kingdom during the day to day affairs,
(29:56):
directing the armies, rallying the troops. Instead, he hanged out
in his palace with his harem, with his concubines. His
generals begin to fill the vacuum of power, and this
leads to a lot of internal conflict and fracturing of
the kingdom. Hong begins to you know, suspect members of
(30:22):
his inner circle of being traders, and he has very
valid reasons for this. By eighteen sixty four, the Qing
armies are at the gates of the city and Hong's general,
a guy named Lee Sucheng, demands that Hong gtfo right,
get get out of the city.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And now they are who they've been, you know, forced
into retreat and they're holed up behind walls. They've run
a food as well. So what does Hong do? He says, Uh,
We're just gonna drink tears from heaven, you know, eat
mana from heaven?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
What mana like?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
That's like magical energy juice like from the Final Fantasy Games,
I think, But no, he says, And what he was
referring to were like he basically said that God will
nourish us with whatever we put into our bodies. This
is so crazy, it's so crazy, it almost seems made up,
but it's the crazy at So he plucks this.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
What does he do?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
He plucks a weed from the ground and eats it
as a sign they like, see, I'm on board with you,
you know, like I'm just like you guys. And it's
turns out to be deadly poison and he dies.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, yeap, just on a fluke totally, you know. Oh
good God.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
And then as teenage son kind of steps in and
replaces him, but it's too late that the chain are
at the gates. Like we said, they eventually kick down
the doors. Blood bath ensues night Night Kingdom of Heaven.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And the typing rebellion is put down. Estimates very widely,
depending on which historical sources you encounter. You will see
the estimate of the death toll here ringing in it
anywhere between twenty two seventy million people. That makes it
one of the deadliest conflicts in human history, and it
(32:07):
shaped China and therefore the world in ways that carry
over even today in twenty nineteen, all because one guy
had a vision. You know, what if he have passed
his exams? You always have to wonder. It's kind of
like what if Hitler got accepted into art school. Yeah,
I don't know, man, that's true.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
I mean, I think it's with the repeated rejection that
really caused him to break. But you gotta wonder too,
something was off in this guy, So he would have
done some weird stuff in either way.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, and you have to wonder about the country as well.
If not him, would some other kind of event have occurred,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, it's true because the history of China is largely
a series of peasant uprisings, as of the case for
many histories, like the French Revolution, the American earlier. It's
all about rising up against the oppressor, perceived or otherwise.
And the dynasty system was so entrenched culturally that it
was immovable, and so it makes sense that, Like, but
(33:08):
what's so funny, Ben, though, is what's happening is you replace,
you knock down a dynasty, and then you replace it
with your own dynasty, and you become the same thing
that you hated and we're fighting against in the first place. Absolutely,
it happens every time. Maybe one time it'll be different.
Probably not, Okay, probably now look forward to it. I'm
holding my breath. So history tells us that the world
(33:31):
is rife, The world is overflowing with would be messiahs.
We are lousy with people who suspect that they have
divine right to one thing or another, and the modern
age is no different. It's easy for us to say, wow,
that sounds crazy, what the heck was going on in
(33:52):
the eighteen hundreds, But you have to realize in twenty nineteen,
there are plenty of groups in the United States, in
your home country and your neck of the global woods.
I guarantee you there is someone right now who believes
that they are either God or the avatar of God,
or the younger brother of a divine figure. Yeah, first
(34:15):
cousin whatever, Sure, Yeah, why not, man, somebody's got to
be more power to you. Just trying not to, you know,
foment any bloody uprisings.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, do your best, do your best, do your best,
be a good citizen. This was such a crazy story.
It's a story that a lot of Westerners are not
familiar with it.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
And how insane is it that a story involving the
death of twenty to seventy million human beings that took
place over fifteen years at the hands of a psychotic
Christian death cult leader not really a death call, but certainly,
I mean, I stand, we stand by the whole cult thing.
How crazy is that we don't know about that. They
don't teach that in history class.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I don't know. It's it's interesting. It sounds weird because
we do host the history show, but a lot of
stuff happened. Yeah, I don't know, Casey. I'm not going
to put you out in spy here. I just want
to know. Had you ever heard of this story?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
No, this is like all completely new to me in
my mind. Is thoroughly blown.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Absolutely yeah, yeah, bonkers? And how has there not been
a film of this as well? Seems very good film fodder.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
When you Yeah, when you first mentioned it, I was
thinking of Scorsese's Silence, which is also concerns Christianity in Japan.
That's right, and it's kind of somebody also having maybe
a little bit of a savior complex or something. But
a different era, different country, different culture, very different. But
you know it kind of brought that to mind.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, very much. So well, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I think I think the story speaks for itself. I
think we've said it all, so I think it's time
to wrap it up.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Man, what do you say? I never want a cult
story to end, but yeah, I guess I guess I
got it.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
All good cult things must come to an.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Appan I know, I know, and you know when you've
started as many as I have, eventually you wanted.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
To feel I said that was in another life.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Totally so. Thanks to Christopher Hasiotis, Thanks to our super
producer Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Thanks to research associate and pal Gabe Lucier. Thanks to
Alex Williams, who composed.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Our Thanks to you, Noel. Thanks to you listeners for
giving this episode a spin. If the spirit so moves you,
why not drop by your podcast platform of choice and
toss us a rating or review. Yeah, we'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
You can also join us on our Facebook fan page
or community page whatever you want to call it, which
is ridiculous historians. We are on the usual platforms, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.
You can also follow me personally on Instagram at Embryonic Insider.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
And you can find me on Instagram as well. I
am at ben Bowlin. So let us let us know
about the local movements, communes, or dare we say, cults
in your neck of the global woods. Do you think
these groups are innocuous? Do you think they are malevolent?
(37:04):
If so, why or why not? And I'm especially interested
to hear stories of local cults that most people outside
of the area don't know about. Yeah, like Zendig Farms. Yeah, hey, yeah,
Zendig Farms. There are a ton of Florida just to
the south of us, very strange ones too, But yeah,
(37:25):
let us know. We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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