April 16, 2026 • 44 mins
Now, we know this is going to sound weird, but... it turns out one of the world's most popular pop music contests is also one of the world's best examples of 'soft diplomacy'. So what happens when countries that hate each other get together to determine the year's best song? Spoiler: it gets ridiculous. In today's episode, Ben, Noel and Max continue their obsession with the Eurovision Song Contest.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man,
the myth, the uh, the guy beloved by professional juries
and the public alike, mister Max Williams, I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Loved by non professional juries too.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yes, yeah, that's no brown wooing in the background. Thank you,
and I'm able to be I like to be wooed,
you know, yes, to woo and to woo uh. My
name is Ben Bullen. For tax purposes, on this show,
we are returning to our exploration of a little thing
(01:08):
called Eurovision. Now. Previously on Ridiculous History, the three of
us delved deep into the origin story of a thing
that has become an international phenomenon. But Noel, you know
you and I were teasing this the entirety of our
(01:28):
first chapter. People do vote on Eurovision. Even though it's
a unifying thing, it is at heart a competition, so
there has to be a winner and there can only
be one.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Oh highlander rules Ben, which is also intensely European.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes, cartoonishly so yeah, that's good. Eurovision has a unique
system of voting that combines professional juries like the country
representatives or the big to dos of the music industry
(02:11):
with viewers at home at this point. So if we
are all watching Eurovision twenty twenty six, and the three
of us have a big group text and we're going Estonia,
no Hungary, you know what I mean, we can cast
(02:31):
our votes, we can make a voting block. It's so
weird because each country that participates in Eurovision has their
own in house jury of musical industry pros, and these
folks will award points to their favorite songs, but given
the conspiracy of nineteen fifty six, they are legally not
(02:54):
allowed to vote for their own country. So like, if
you're Simon Cowell or whatever, isn't he the.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Guy Timon Cowell is the mean British one? Yes?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
And then we've got Randy Jackson, who is not related
to Michael Jackson. He is a slap of de base
guy who is sort of a mean American who tells
people that he isn't feeling a dog.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
That's a note for me, for me. Yeah, So those guys,
hypothetically even being at the top of the music industry game,
if they were part of a jury and Eurovision, they
could not vote for their own country. So essentially what
happens is this jury of boffins will make a top
(03:41):
ten list, a short list, and they will award points.
The maximum amount of allowable points is twelve points. If
you really really love every way that I can or
if you really really love think about things, et cetera.
So at the same time this is happening, the civilians
(04:02):
are participating. The public is a big part of this,
fans from around Europe. And at this point, by the way, guys,
pretty much anyone who has the app, you can vote
for your favorite performance by phone, text or in of course,
the official Eurovision app, which I do want to point out,
(04:23):
is going to scrape a lot of data from your phone.
It's true.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Any of those type of apps are going to have
significant cookies. I do believe there are rules now where
you are required to be a little more transparent about
which cookies you accept or do not. They EU SU
and the E's always been ahead of the curve in
terms of protection of privacy. So yeah, not something that
we have as much luck with over here. But I
(04:48):
do believe, at least I've noticed that cookie acceptance is
a little bit more transparent, even here in the States.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Do you, guys, get that thing? It may depend on
the browser you use, but do you get that pop
up where it says, except all cookies reject all cookies
customize you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Sometimes there's there's a third secret, third thing or not secret.
But I like to say that for whatever reason, where
it's only relevant ones or only key functional functional ones.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I mean I think we all mass reject all as
soon as possible, how as I do?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, of course I have cookies at home. Why do
I want more on the internet? What's your favorite kind
of cookie? Bin? Uh? My favorite kind of cookie? No,
that's a great question. I don't need a lot of sweets.
I'm sweet enough. I think that.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Thanks, guys, I would say, you know what I like
a good soft chocolate chip. What about you?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
A good soft baked chocolate chip. Ben, I also enjoy
a chocolate chip. Let's include some nuts of some kind
perhaps in that chocolate chip, and a little bit of
sea salt.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Oh, there we go, all right? Maybe some brown butter max. Yeah,
what's what to do?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Condition condition?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Come on, man, preconditioned? Favorite cookie?
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, a hot soft chocolate chip cookie?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Is hot. Yeah, as you can tell, we are working
on our pitch for the next year of ficion so
in contests when we can participate, because perhaps podcasts are
a country of their own. Look, we know that the
(06:27):
voting thing is a messy bull of spaghetti. It's a
big batch of weird cookie dough. If you are a
winning overstuffed cow zone, it's an overstuffed cow zone. Just so,
if you are a winning entry, then you have to
be able to appeal to the professional juries and then
you have to get the public on your side. But
(06:50):
just like the electoral college or the electoral vote versus
the popular vote in US politics, you don't have to
win both of them to be the main act to
be the winner. And I gotta I gotta ask you, guys,
do you remember NOL. You and I have talked about
(07:12):
this in the past. Do you remember when we discovered
that there's maybe six people in Scandinavia who write most
pop music hits.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Oh of course, Yeah, I mean we're talking about the
hit factory sort of system over there. The most popular
person associated with that is Max Martin, and he's got
a whole team of crack Scandinavian songwriters song Smith's producers
that are basically dividing pop songs down into their component
(07:44):
parts in order to weaponize psychology against you.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yes, you the listener. Yes could have said it better.
You nailed it. Folks, please check out stuff they don't
want you to know. If Nolan and I don't have
an episode about that yet, we will have one soon.
It'd be great. It'd be weird if we hadn't gotten
to that one yet. Okay, so look, we're we're the crew.
(08:10):
We're watching Eurovision the Big Night, the Grand Final, and
the points are being actively displayed. The scoreboard can flip
at the drop of a hat, so you're gonna see
Max name a name an obscure European country.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Sorry I'm late to the party, or at the drop
of a beat.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh oh, that's foreshadowing. So okay, you might see Armenia
uh performing the in in the Big to Do, and
they may all of a sudden look like they're shoeing.
They're the winner. But then the next uh, the next
act comes on, Nol, what's another country that is not
(08:55):
Armenia but still in Europe? Oh boy, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Oh man, that's like saying name one woman that was
a billy on the street thing. He walks up to people, Billy,
what's that guy?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
You know? That really intense dude.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
He walks out of people and says, name one woman,
and they can't do it. They can't do it. I
am so bad at geography, Ben, you're putting me on
the spot. But let's go with.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
There we go. Okay, all right, that's still the thing.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
It is still a thing.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Thank goodness to ask uh and I also, I also
loved that joke because Max, I can't remember if you
were there for this recording, but Nolan and I had
quite a time, uh talking about how how weird passport
control and customs can be because of all yeah, yeah, like,
(09:52):
oh is your birthday insert date here? And they're not
looking for what you say, they're looking for your responses.
So both of your faithful co hosts here definitely got
some deer in the headlights moments, right you remember that?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh yeah, man, I mean it's how you It's not
what you say, it's how you say it. And it's
so it's much like we discussed on a recent episode
about IQ tests that test taking anxiety. It's a similar
emotional response, but all of a sudden, you're like under
the gun. Everything you think you know about anything, even yourself,
can just fly right out of your head.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Once upon a time, and this is a true story,
and I trust all of us not to make fun
of me about it too hard. But once upon a time,
when I was entering the United Kingdom, I freaked out
when they were asking me very basic questions. But in
as you said, Nol that quite direct way, I accidentally
(10:48):
called the passport control guy your highness. I didn't know
what to do. I didn't know what to do. It
was like, it was like, oh, so, what's your business here?
What's going on? I was like, ah, your highness, and
I ah.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Sorry, I might have dropped your lordship situation.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's a weird one, right, And speaking of more weird stuff, uh,
we have to understand that Eurovision is not about the
best song, right, It is not about that. It is
about stage presence, it's about seeming original. It's a little
(11:27):
bit of rivalry and that brings us to again the
most broken of the main commandments of Eurovision being a
political case. We danced around it a little bit, but
we did a euroside steps, We did a shimmi or two.
We did. We did. We did an electric slide on
a couple of these because uh, this is of course
(11:51):
chapter two. Noel, you and I and Max were talking
off air. Eurovision is way more than this simple reality
TV show. It is a platform of diplomacy.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
The Eurovision Song Contest as it's known, can act as
an incredibly powerful platform for public discourse, cultural diplomacy, and
utilizing that soft power in order to put forth some
very important nation branding. We talked recently about Thai food,
(12:33):
for example, then the exporting of Thai food to the
United States and other parts of the world. That's soft diplomacy.
We talked about food being soft diplomacy and cuisine being
soft diplomacy. This is no different. This can also be
an important component in political alignment with other nations, as
well as fostering cultural dialogues among other nations in Europe
(12:53):
and neighboring countries. And since nineteen fifty six, this whole
deal has allowed nations to influence international perception of their
culture through music rather than through political talking points or policy.
My friend, I think we both agree that is a
powerful thing. Oh absolutely, my friend, Because it's really hard
(13:14):
to wrap your head around the politics of other countries
if you're not like one of the wonks, you know,
or the boffins, as you'd like to say. But music
we can all kind of get behind.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, most people are going to feel the same way
about a F sharp or a flat you know what
I mean. It communicates fast words. And also to your
excellent point, there, Noel, why would someone read thousands of
pages about Latvia's post Soviet agricultural policies. Why wouldn't you
(13:47):
just tune in for a less than three minute song
called Latvia Makes Bread.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I'll tell you all. All I needed to know about
Latvia is that I could tap my toe to the
bread song.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
There we go. Yeah, and we see when this works
in theory, we do see a great geopolitical glue. We
do see a great unifier. It also, however, acts as
a platform or venue for geopolitical tensions. So there are
(14:18):
going to be cases where two countries are beefing for
one reason or another and they just don't like each other,
and they're going to say, screw these guys, nobody vote
for them, right, and they'll get the same in return.
Eurovision during the Cold War is very interesting because it
(14:42):
was unifying Western Europe, but Eastern Europe, under the control
of the USSR, was excluded from the competition. So the
Soviet Bloc, that's what they call it, dude, they made
their own thing. They looked at Coca Cola and said,
will make pepsi at home. They created something called the
(15:03):
Intervision Song Contest. Not as Cool feels like a little
also ran.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
No, it's it does for sure. You can't mess with
the classic formulas as evidenced by Coke two, coke, Oh psi.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
We should do an episode on those.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Oh, how have we not?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, we can combine those crystal pepsi and new coke.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, all right, we'll write it down. Also, the Intervision
Song Contest from the Soviet block ran from a you
had a much shorter career. It ran from about nineteen
sixty five to nineteen eighty, and it was billed as
a socialist alternative to the corrupt capitalist practices of Eurovision.
(15:55):
And they said, look, we are going to do our
own show, right, We'll make a pepe to the coke
and we will not worry about you guys from Western Europe.
So then we saw for a few decades, we saw
Eurovision and Intervision competing sort of in the same room,
(16:16):
but not directly with one another.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah, but as we can see here from the outline,
Intervision only lasted from nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty,
so it would appear that the OG won out and
that there indeed was could only be one at least,
you know, ultimately.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Like you said, Highlander rules, right, So this is different.
This is a contrasting case to the Olympic Games, because
Intervision and Eurovision did not pick their number one winner
and then send those two folks to sing it out.
There were only a few instances, pretty rare, where artists
(16:59):
from the Soviet block appeared on Eurovision. That all changes
in nineteen eighty nine, the Berlin Wall falls and shout
out to everybody else who has a little relic of that.
The USSR collapsed. And this means that many formerly Soviet
(17:19):
states in Eastern Europe, what do they do? No, they
don't hang with Intervision. They immediately joined the Eurovision Song
Contest in the nineteen nineties, and doing so is way
easier than joining something like NATO. Yeah man, Nato, Huh,
(17:41):
how's that thing going? Yeah? Oh yeah? Tap the mic
like a nineteen eighty stand up NATO, guys. It just
I don't know, it just.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
The soft diplomacy stuff is such an interesting microcosm of
like larger political systems and how propaganda can ultimately be
more effective than things like NATO and like the UN
and governing bodies, and like what we're seeing right now
in the United States. Not to be like too political
about it, but we're really just seeing so much actual
(18:16):
international law is a matter of just folks deciding to
play nice and follow the rules, you know, And how
much more influential some of this soft diplomacy stuff can be,
and how you know, this branding kind of these branding
plays can really make more of a lasting impact than
(18:37):
even you know, how you vote in the UN or
like resolutions or even sanctions.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You know. I think what we're
all saying here is that makes sense. Yeah, it does.
It's well put. What we're all saying here is, while
Eurovision is a lot of fun, it's hacking minds. It's
building relationships in a way that in institutions like the
United Nations or NATO simply cannot. This is much more
(19:05):
than a singing contest. It is not just international diplomacy
at its finest, it is also international diplomacy at its weirdest,
at its most ridiculous, and that means naturally, Eurovision is
no stranger to controversy. And Noel, you, Max and I
(19:28):
were talking about this a little bit off air. This
is part of why we made this a two part series.
Eurovision has, despite its noble intent and its grand ambition,
been embroiled in so much controversy. We could sum it
up in three rough categories. Maybe we step through those
(19:50):
political tensions between competing countries that hell or high water
will not vote for each other ever at all, not
even if the song is clearly the best song. And
the second controversy is going to be entries or songs
being disqualified due to political references in song lyrics. Just
(20:16):
for an example.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Well, you know, Ben, I don't mean interup. We're gonna
get the examples real quick, but we're no stranger to that.
Over here in the United States, we've certainly seen artists
banned from say Saturday Night Live for Life for rage
shout out to rage, for having an upside down American flag.
I believe that they were told not to do, and
I also believe they switched songs the last minute. Shout
(20:39):
out to Elvis Costello who did the song radio Radio,
which is a total indictment of the broadcast system and
the idea of like artists and performers being kind of
slaves to these corporate interests. And of course shout out
to Sinad O'Connor for tearing up a photograph of the
(20:59):
post on live television.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Fight the real enemy.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
So you know, it's it's and this is not an
exclusively European phenomenon. This is something that you know, when
you're dealing with these live performances, politics can definitely make
things a little bit messy and make things a little
bit difficult for say the network in this case, for
the competition.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, at our third category of controversy, here would be demonstrations,
boycott's protests against certain countries. People are saying, don't let
this country compete because of their politics and their policies.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
When s talk about the right, probably the most extreme
version of that that's happening right now.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah. Yeah, as we build up to that, let's mention
the ongoing conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan. This these folks
get beefed up, so often in Eurovision. They both in
the late two thousands, but in two thousand and nine,
Get this, there were people in Azerbaijan, civilians, right, not military,
(22:11):
not professional judges or whatever, just regular people watching the
show and they vibed with Armenia's song and they voted
for it, and then later they were visited by law enforcement.
They got a heard you voted wrong. Imagine the police
(22:32):
knocking on your door because you voted wrong. In America's got.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Talent well, and that is not to put too fine
a point on it. The kind of stuff that it's
easy to take for granted, and that we've talked about
the slippery slope of some of the things going on
here again in this country, that one day some Facebook
post you liked, or some you know thing you've voted for,
you know poll you took could come back to haunt
(22:58):
you if they were to change, and may in certain
positions are made retroactively quote unquote illegal.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Right, Yeah, the retroactive illegality is a big concern of mine,
hopefully for everybody as well. I mean, we also know
there are some illegal.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Is also such a broad term, it might not even
be considered illegal. It's just at this point, the law
doesn't matter if you have a leader or a desk,
but that has so much power and has so much
influence over law enforcement, the law doesn't even matter. It's
just this person doesn't like you and doesn't like your opinion,
(23:37):
and they're going to come find you and make sure
that you're on a list.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And then we know where that can go exactly. And
we also know there are several elephants in the room
of Eurovision controversy. One of the biggest is obviously going
to be Russia and Ukraine. Now, originally pre twenty fourteen,
these nations peacefully participated in co competition, right of Eurovision,
(24:09):
We're all having fun. But then Russia invaded an annexed
Crimea in twenty fourteen, the war and don Bass popped off,
and in twenty sixteen Ukraine one Eurovision with a song
called nineteen forty four. The lyrics were talking about the
(24:30):
deportation of Tartars people in Crimea, and because of the
events in Crimea occurring right at the time, pretty much
everybody said, hey, this is not a political You guys
know what you're talking about. Everybody knows what you're talking about.
This is a statement against the nation of Russia. However,
(24:55):
the boffins, the judges, most importantly the producers and showrunners
got to together and they said, look, you can compete
because this song is about history. And the Russian delegation said, no,
screw you guys.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Also whose history and which history and which version of history?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right? Yeah, just so, I mean we know that the
country of Georgia, not the state. The country of Georgia
had gotten in trouble with Russia as well, because after
the Russo Georgian War, Georgia came out with a song
called we Don't want to put In, We don't want
(25:39):
to put In, Putin on the ritz. Yeah, And the
European Broadcasting Union objected to this and they said, look,
you guys are clearly doing, you know, a sneaky little
pun and you are criticizing Vladimir Putin. Were not dumb,
(26:01):
you guys, We're still very plugged in and cool. We
get it, and you shouldn't do it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
We're seeing some controversies like that, or we did see
some controversies like that, at least in terms of these
more low key kind of protests in the recent Winter Olympics,
specifically surrounding Palestine and Israel. And like I think there
was like a bobsletter that wore. Yeah, Max has got
the facts on this one were on his helmet some
sort of card with names of folks who were killed.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
It was a Ukrainian bob sletter I believe, who had
like photos of people who had been killed, but in
the in like the Russian in Vagins.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
So sorry, it wasn't wasn't a Palestine thing it was.
It was a Ukraine thing, so even more uh.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And he was he was not allowed to compete with
it on there and but he did it anyway.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Well, no, he wasn't allowed to compete.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
He wore he did, oh got it and he wore
and like.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Practice and told him you have to tick that you
can't wear that you were something confirms the whole a
political stance. And I remember hearing the president of it
of the IOCA her statement, and to get a little
on my own soapbox here, I said, somehow y'all are
still better than FIFA, but only FIFA, only FIFA.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
We're still holding it out for that FIFA Peace Prize,
which will be the first awarded to a podcast, and
let's make it happen that was Max with the facts.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
That seeking in the phones and peacefullen knowledge.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
It's just for you right now here with the facts.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Now we have to get to one of the biggest
controversies in all of Eurovision, and this is something that
is very sensitive to a lot of people. We're going
to be responsible about it. If you look at Eurovision
and you just hear the name, you would be reasonable
(28:02):
in assuming that Eurovision is a contest for European countries.
That is not always the case. There is a very
well known non European country regularly participating in Eurovision, and
that country is the Middle Eastern nation Israel.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Israel first competed in the contest in nineteen seventy three,
becoming the first country from outside of Europe or the
EU as it's known today, to enter. As participation in
the contest over the years has at times raised significant controversy,
as have you know, other actions at Israel have taken there.
(28:44):
They've always been a very dicey kind of political hot
button issue, especially well not especially, but certainly here in
the United States, in no small part because of our
super cozy relationship with them and some of the nasty
goings on that they you know, get into from time
to time.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah, a lot of this controversy will hinge on other
countries participating in Eurovision, and they'll raise concerns. They'll say,
what about the conflict in that region of the world,
the Israeli Palestinian conflicts, what about the wider Israeli Arab
(29:23):
conflict in that region? And so at various times in
the past, other countries have threatened to boycott Eurovision or
they've called for the Nation of Israel to be removed
from participating. Despite all that, this country, which again is
in the Middle East, not in Europe, has remained a
(29:46):
regular competitor since nineteen seventy three. The Nation of Israel
has not only one Eurovision four times, but has also
hosted it thrice for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And if you can imagine, a lot of people have
a lot of thoughts and feelings and opinions about what's
going on with Israel right now in terms of their
treatment of folks in Palestine and in terms of their
actions against Iran that we here in the United States
seem to have gotten, you know, more or less fully
(30:21):
on board with, and that has trickled and filtered into
how they are being looked at and treated in the
Eurovision competition again to that soft diplomacy or that kind
of political microcosm of it all. It really is an
interesting signifier, you know, of how the greater European world
(30:43):
is looking at these conflicts.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Oh yeah, one hundred percent. In twenty twenty five, just
last year, as we record, the Nation of Israel took
the top spot in the public vote, but they got
a score from the jury, so their popular vote was great.
Their electoral college vote, if we could call it that,
(31:07):
not so much. As a result, the European Broadcasting Union
introduced rules for stricter auditing lower public vote counts, and
then they put tighter restrictions on what they portrayed as
state sponsored promotion. So what the EBU was essentially saying
(31:29):
last year is that they were polite, they were diplomatic
in circumspect about it, but they clearly thought that on
some state sponsored level, the Nation of Israel was rigging
the vote for sure, which is like with a lot
of propaganda, not like forcing people to vote, but encouraging
(31:51):
them to only vote for their country propaganda.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
And you gotta wonder too, where we talking like hackery
are we talking about? I mean, I do seem to recall.
I was going to mention some dear friends of mine
in Berlin who are kind of the ones that really
hipped me to how massive the whole Eurovision thing is
over there. Like they have parties and it's just like
it's like a seasonal you know, like literally like a
social event of the season. They seem to think, and
(32:19):
these are folks who are in tech that there may
well have been some you know, shenanigans that play in
terms of rigging the vote, for ringing the vote for Israel,
because of course these things all involve using apps, you know,
using perhaps phone numbers that you can call, and there
are ways to spoof these kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, this is a standing concern for a lot of
Eurovision fans in Western Europe to be honest and across
the world, because look, Eurovision may be for primarily European
countries to participate, but the world is watching. People love
watching Eurovision, and everybody wants the competition to at least
(33:05):
feel fair. We know that controversies will surely crop up
in the future because Eurovision will continue. It is so
amazing to watch. It has got to be a wild
ride to participate in it, and it's also a key
piece of diplomacy. At this point, I think it's fair
(33:26):
to say that on balance Eurovision is ridiculous, but it
is also a tremendously positive thing for the world overall.
Is that safe to say?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
I think it is too, Ben, and I just want
to walk back what I said just briefly. I don't
know that we have evidence of hacking in terms of
it is more, like you said, Ben, a concerted effort
to do sort of like vote manipulations or you know,
kind of coercive voting. But there was an instance back
in twenty nineteen where it is Raeli webcast of the
(34:00):
first Eurovision semifinal was hacked to show faked explosions in
Tel Aviv. The Israeli national broadcaster COHN blamed Hamas for
the interruption, though the Palestinian group didn't comment. The TV
broadcast at large was not affected, but viewers tuning into
(34:21):
the con webcast all the warning risk of missile attack,
please take shelter under a fake logo of the Israeli
army and the sound of rocket warning sirens.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Turty stuff. Why can't we just have a one nice thing?
Why can't we just see why can't we just see
silly songs being sung by people? Man this so it
goes deep, learn more about the concept of soft diplomacy.
We talked off Mike and Max, Noel and I couldn't
(34:52):
leave you without a one last you know, digit Steve,
We we have to share some of our favorite weirdest
Eurovision songs ever, because again this thing started in nineteen
fifty six, aside from COVID, it kept going all the
(35:12):
way up to the modern day. I got to tell you, Noel,
two of my favorite Eurovision songs ever are every Way
that I Can by Sir toab Erener and Think About
Things by Daddie Freire. That is my guy, Doddy Fryar.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Got to see him perform here in Atlanta at the
Variety Playhouse. He had a giant inflatable of his head
on stage, because of course he did, of course he did.
And he's you know, his videos are just as delightful
that one you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Ben.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I think they're all wearing like weird sweaters in the video,
and then he's got some that they're just like weird
little after effects clones of himself and just really delightful stuff.
Real tall lanky dude, very into electronic music, kind of techno,
but it's sort of comedy music, but it's also just good.
Like I would have a lot of heart to him,
really a lot of heart, and he just seems like
(36:00):
a lovely guy. And he actually just moves to Berlin,
which is my favorite city in the EU, and makes
a whole lot of sense because that is sort of
the heart, the beating, the four on the floor beating
heart of the electronic music world.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Berlin is your favorite city out of that whole pseudo continent.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah, I just have really good friends there, and I
just love the history of the music scene, and you know,
a lot of the stuff that I'm into, and I
just dig the vibe there.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
It's cool. Nice. We also want to shout out the
weirdest Eurovision performances, things like Finland's monster rock band Lordie.
So if you are a fellow theatric rock nerd, you
might recall bands like Guar, Lordie, l O R d I.
(36:49):
They have a song called hard Rock Hallelujah. Check it out.
It's exactly what you're thinking about, it sure is.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
And I also want to pull a couple of fun
from an article the Guardian put out called Vampires, Naked
Apes and free Booze the twenty wildest Eurovision performances ever,
because you know, this absurd aspect of Eurovision is almost
as important as like say, the you know, having the
(37:17):
best pop song or being the most polished act. Vampires
are alive Switzerland two thousand and seven. Vampires are alive
in hell Sinky, they say, beginning this surreal Swiss pop entry,
which occasionally veered into Pirates of Penzance territory. It was
especially odd because, despite the subject matter, neither DJ Bobo
nor his crew resembled vampires. As Eurovision rules stipulate that
(37:41):
you can't have more than six performers on stage, whoa
that still holds a row of mannequins were added at
the back to make the stage look busier. The result
a band of not vampires lost in the pants department
of a Marks and Spencer. That must be a British
reference that I do not get, and I am reading
from this article directly. One more that I thought it
was fun was Helium to the Rescue. If you're unsure
(38:04):
whether you're going to hit the high note at Eurovision,
you can always take a leaf out of Sebastian Telier's book.
By the way, adore Sebastian Tellier. This guy's a serious
electronic artist from France who does really gorgeous kind of
lounge type music. But he arrived on stage driven in
a golf buggy and inhaled a helium balloon mid performance,
thereby raising his voice a couple octaves. Tellier ended up
(38:27):
coming in nineteenth in that year's final.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And let us not forget Dustin the Turkey representing Ireland
two thousand and eight. We're gonna play one real quick
clip and it counts as fair you so again, Turkey's
Ireland Dustin puppets. Now do you see it? Do you
(38:55):
see the puppet? I sure do, swear it?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Amazing, amazing, All right, we'll stop it.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I'm a little triggered.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Is a little bit dark, Crystal Skexies coded a little bit.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
But I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Ben, thanks for sharing to jump in here, because this
seems very relevant. I pulled this up before we even started.
But most Eurovision wins in the history of the competition,
it is.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
A tie between Sweden and Ireland.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
The two countries that famously have.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
Fun seven times each.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I Sweden I could have guessed that that would have
been one of my guesses.
Speaker 4 (39:42):
Ireland, Ireland.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
It's something in the eyes, you know. So we also
know that we also knew that there were entries into
Eurovision that we're bragging about agricultural goods. If you go
to twenty twelve, you'll see Russia's submission, which is Borronolskie
(40:07):
Babushki Party for everybody.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Bushki means everybody. I thought of Babushka. It was like
a like a little old lady.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Well it was, and they did have Russian Granny's baking
bread on stay thank that was part of their musical act.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Love It also shout out to Kate Bush, my favorite
artist of all time, second only maybe to David Bowie
for her song Babushka.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
It's shout out to those mad lads from Moldova who
got on unicycles. Of course, shout out to Estonia's chaotic
punk act Winnie Push. That's true, that's the real day.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
I believe it.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I believe it been so guys. This is all building
toward one of the biggest questions that we and our
fellow ridiculous historians have had over the past to episodes
of this series. When are we going to Eurovision? Will
accounting pay for it?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Let's go this weekend?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
We actually, we actually cannot go this weekend.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Stuff going on. We're gonna be on the road, y'all
doing ridiculous history from the Bahamas. Gosh, must be nice,
is what y'all are probably saying.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
It is work.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
We are stoked, and we're very grateful to Baja mar
the Resort for putting us up for a couple of
days and letting us record from their podcast studio, which
they apparently have.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yes, yeah, we will update when we are recording in
Baja Mark. Wish us the best, folks. We can't wait
to hear from you your favorite Eurovision songs. Give it
to us, your least favorite, give it to us the
ones that still thoroughly confuse you. Because Max Noll and
(41:55):
I each have our own collected set of just real
weird stuff from Eurovision. Big big thanks to our super
producer mister Max Williams, Big thanks to his biological brother
Alex Williams, who composed this track. And you know what,
Nol I think Alex would be great at Eurovision.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
The man's got stage presence, the man's got riz let's
put him forth as as the US, the first ever
US entry into Eurovision, though I'm pretty sure they wouldn't
have us at this point.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I don't know. I think it's all in the swagger. Okay,
So it's if it's Alex Max, you myself. We'd have
to add Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister. Can we put
him in the back maybe with like a what's the
least intrusive musical instrument? The kazoo? No, that's too far.
(42:51):
We'll give him a thereman. Can he drive a Theramy
Herman's pretty intrusive? Max goes high? Can we give him
like a triangle?
Speaker 4 (42:59):
You can get truth of what the triangle ben? All right,
it's not all right to stay on the air, but
I can tell you later.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Okay, Well tuned in for the after show, folks, which
I guess means Texas or hit us up on ridiculous
historians over on Facebook. Big thanks to Christopher hasiotis here
in spirit. Big thanks to use Jeffcoat, who recently returned
to South Africa. By the way, I think she's okay
(43:26):
with us saying that. No, I don't think either of
us were able to make it to her yoga session
when she was back in town.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
No, sadly, but that's because everybody Dylan who does live
music for it and also produces our show stuff, they
don't want you to know. He told me it's sold out,
so I'm looking forward to trying out the next one.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Big thanks as well to aj Bahama's Jacob's The Puzzler,
and big thanks to Rachel Big, Spinach, Lance and man Ben.
I got to thank you twice over for this.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
One because you were the research associate on this episode,
this pair of episodes as well as my You know,
we could maybe be a Eurovision duo. We just have
to renounce our citizenship.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Okay, yeah, the price dropped for that, that's what I heard.
I think we can afford it. We'll go in Apsi's
We'll see you next time, Poets.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man,
the myth, the uh, the guy beloved by professional juries
and the public alike, mister Max Williams, I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Loved by non professional juries too.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yes, yeah, that's no brown wooing in the background. Thank you,
and I'm able to be I like to be wooed,
you know, yes, to woo and to woo uh. My
name is Ben Bullen. For tax purposes, on this show,
we are returning to our exploration of a little thing
(01:08):
called Eurovision. Now. Previously on Ridiculous History, the three of
us delved deep into the origin story of a thing
that has become an international phenomenon. But Noel, you know
you and I were teasing this the entirety of our
(01:28):
first chapter. People do vote on Eurovision. Even though it's
a unifying thing, it is at heart a competition, so
there has to be a winner and there can only
be one.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Oh highlander rules Ben, which is also intensely European.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes, cartoonishly so yeah, that's good. Eurovision has a unique
system of voting that combines professional juries like the country
representatives or the big to dos of the music industry
(02:11):
with viewers at home at this point. So if we
are all watching Eurovision twenty twenty six, and the three
of us have a big group text and we're going Estonia,
no Hungary, you know what I mean, we can cast
(02:31):
our votes, we can make a voting block. It's so
weird because each country that participates in Eurovision has their
own in house jury of musical industry pros, and these
folks will award points to their favorite songs, but given
the conspiracy of nineteen fifty six, they are legally not
(02:54):
allowed to vote for their own country. So like, if
you're Simon Cowell or whatever, isn't he the.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Guy Timon Cowell is the mean British one? Yes?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
And then we've got Randy Jackson, who is not related
to Michael Jackson. He is a slap of de base
guy who is sort of a mean American who tells
people that he isn't feeling a dog.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
That's a note for me, for me. Yeah, So those guys,
hypothetically even being at the top of the music industry game,
if they were part of a jury and Eurovision, they
could not vote for their own country. So essentially what
happens is this jury of boffins will make a top
(03:41):
ten list, a short list, and they will award points.
The maximum amount of allowable points is twelve points. If
you really really love every way that I can or
if you really really love think about things, et cetera.
So at the same time this is happening, the civilians
(04:02):
are participating. The public is a big part of this,
fans from around Europe. And at this point, by the way, guys,
pretty much anyone who has the app, you can vote
for your favorite performance by phone, text or in of course,
the official Eurovision app, which I do want to point out,
(04:23):
is going to scrape a lot of data from your phone.
It's true.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Any of those type of apps are going to have
significant cookies. I do believe there are rules now where
you are required to be a little more transparent about
which cookies you accept or do not. They EU SU
and the E's always been ahead of the curve in
terms of protection of privacy. So yeah, not something that
we have as much luck with over here. But I
(04:48):
do believe, at least I've noticed that cookie acceptance is
a little bit more transparent, even here in the States.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Do you, guys, get that thing? It may depend on
the browser you use, but do you get that pop
up where it says, except all cookies reject all cookies
customize you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Sometimes there's there's a third secret, third thing or not secret.
But I like to say that for whatever reason, where
it's only relevant ones or only key functional functional ones.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I mean I think we all mass reject all as
soon as possible, how as I do?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, of course I have cookies at home. Why do
I want more on the internet? What's your favorite kind
of cookie? Bin? Uh? My favorite kind of cookie? No,
that's a great question. I don't need a lot of sweets.
I'm sweet enough. I think that.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Thanks, guys, I would say, you know what I like
a good soft chocolate chip. What about you?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
A good soft baked chocolate chip. Ben, I also enjoy
a chocolate chip. Let's include some nuts of some kind
perhaps in that chocolate chip, and a little bit of
sea salt.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Oh, there we go, all right? Maybe some brown butter max. Yeah,
what's what to do?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Condition condition?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Come on, man, preconditioned? Favorite cookie?
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, a hot soft chocolate chip cookie?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Is hot. Yeah, as you can tell, we are working
on our pitch for the next year of ficion so
in contests when we can participate, because perhaps podcasts are
a country of their own. Look, we know that the
(06:27):
voting thing is a messy bull of spaghetti. It's a
big batch of weird cookie dough. If you are a
winning overstuffed cow zone, it's an overstuffed cow zone. Just so,
if you are a winning entry, then you have to
be able to appeal to the professional juries and then
you have to get the public on your side. But
(06:50):
just like the electoral college or the electoral vote versus
the popular vote in US politics, you don't have to
win both of them to be the main act to
be the winner. And I gotta I gotta ask you, guys,
do you remember NOL. You and I have talked about
(07:12):
this in the past. Do you remember when we discovered
that there's maybe six people in Scandinavia who write most
pop music hits.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Oh of course, Yeah, I mean we're talking about the
hit factory sort of system over there. The most popular
person associated with that is Max Martin, and he's got
a whole team of crack Scandinavian songwriters song Smith's producers
that are basically dividing pop songs down into their component
(07:44):
parts in order to weaponize psychology against you.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yes, you the listener. Yes could have said it better.
You nailed it. Folks, please check out stuff they don't
want you to know. If Nolan and I don't have
an episode about that yet, we will have one soon.
It'd be great. It'd be weird if we hadn't gotten
to that one yet. Okay, so look, we're we're the crew.
(08:10):
We're watching Eurovision the Big Night, the Grand Final, and
the points are being actively displayed. The scoreboard can flip
at the drop of a hat, so you're gonna see
Max name a name an obscure European country.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Sorry I'm late to the party, or at the drop
of a beat.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh oh, that's foreshadowing. So okay, you might see Armenia
uh performing the in in the Big to Do, and
they may all of a sudden look like they're shoeing.
They're the winner. But then the next uh, the next
act comes on, Nol, what's another country that is not
(08:55):
Armenia but still in Europe? Oh boy, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Oh man, that's like saying name one woman that was
a billy on the street thing. He walks up to people, Billy,
what's that guy?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
You know? That really intense dude.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
He walks out of people and says, name one woman,
and they can't do it. They can't do it. I
am so bad at geography, Ben, you're putting me on
the spot. But let's go with.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
There we go. Okay, all right, that's still the thing.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
It is still a thing.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Thank goodness to ask uh and I also, I also
loved that joke because Max, I can't remember if you
were there for this recording, but Nolan and I had
quite a time, uh talking about how how weird passport
control and customs can be because of all yeah, yeah, like,
(09:52):
oh is your birthday insert date here? And they're not
looking for what you say, they're looking for your responses.
So both of your faithful co hosts here definitely got
some deer in the headlights moments, right you remember that?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh yeah, man, I mean it's how you It's not
what you say, it's how you say it. And it's
so it's much like we discussed on a recent episode
about IQ tests that test taking anxiety. It's a similar
emotional response, but all of a sudden, you're like under
the gun. Everything you think you know about anything, even yourself,
can just fly right out of your head.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Once upon a time, and this is a true story,
and I trust all of us not to make fun
of me about it too hard. But once upon a time,
when I was entering the United Kingdom, I freaked out
when they were asking me very basic questions. But in
as you said, Nol that quite direct way, I accidentally
(10:48):
called the passport control guy your highness. I didn't know
what to do. I didn't know what to do. It
was like, it was like, oh, so, what's your business here?
What's going on? I was like, ah, your highness, and
I ah.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Sorry, I might have dropped your lordship situation.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's a weird one, right, And speaking of more weird stuff, uh,
we have to understand that Eurovision is not about the
best song, right, It is not about that. It is
about stage presence, it's about seeming original. It's a little
(11:27):
bit of rivalry and that brings us to again the
most broken of the main commandments of Eurovision being a
political case. We danced around it a little bit, but
we did a euroside steps, We did a shimmi or two.
We did. We did. We did an electric slide on
a couple of these because uh, this is of course
(11:51):
chapter two. Noel, you and I and Max were talking
off air. Eurovision is way more than this simple reality
TV show. It is a platform of diplomacy.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
The Eurovision Song Contest as it's known, can act as
an incredibly powerful platform for public discourse, cultural diplomacy, and
utilizing that soft power in order to put forth some
very important nation branding. We talked recently about Thai food,
(12:33):
for example, then the exporting of Thai food to the
United States and other parts of the world. That's soft diplomacy.
We talked about food being soft diplomacy and cuisine being
soft diplomacy. This is no different. This can also be
an important component in political alignment with other nations, as
well as fostering cultural dialogues among other nations in Europe
(12:53):
and neighboring countries. And since nineteen fifty six, this whole
deal has allowed nations to influence international perception of their
culture through music rather than through political talking points or policy.
My friend, I think we both agree that is a
powerful thing. Oh absolutely, my friend, Because it's really hard
(13:14):
to wrap your head around the politics of other countries
if you're not like one of the wonks, you know,
or the boffins, as you'd like to say. But music
we can all kind of get behind.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, most people are going to feel the same way
about a F sharp or a flat you know what
I mean. It communicates fast words. And also to your
excellent point, there, Noel, why would someone read thousands of
pages about Latvia's post Soviet agricultural policies. Why wouldn't you
(13:47):
just tune in for a less than three minute song
called Latvia Makes Bread.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I'll tell you all. All I needed to know about
Latvia is that I could tap my toe to the
bread song.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
There we go. Yeah, and we see when this works
in theory, we do see a great geopolitical glue. We
do see a great unifier. It also, however, acts as
a platform or venue for geopolitical tensions. So there are
(14:18):
going to be cases where two countries are beefing for
one reason or another and they just don't like each other,
and they're going to say, screw these guys, nobody vote
for them, right, and they'll get the same in return.
Eurovision during the Cold War is very interesting because it
(14:42):
was unifying Western Europe, but Eastern Europe, under the control
of the USSR, was excluded from the competition. So the
Soviet Bloc, that's what they call it, dude, they made
their own thing. They looked at Coca Cola and said,
will make pepsi at home. They created something called the
(15:03):
Intervision Song Contest. Not as Cool feels like a little
also ran.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
No, it's it does for sure. You can't mess with
the classic formulas as evidenced by Coke two, coke, Oh psi.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
We should do an episode on those.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Oh, how have we not?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, we can combine those crystal pepsi and new coke.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, all right, we'll write it down. Also, the Intervision
Song Contest from the Soviet block ran from a you
had a much shorter career. It ran from about nineteen
sixty five to nineteen eighty, and it was billed as
a socialist alternative to the corrupt capitalist practices of Eurovision.
(15:55):
And they said, look, we are going to do our
own show, right, We'll make a pepe to the coke
and we will not worry about you guys from Western Europe.
So then we saw for a few decades, we saw
Eurovision and Intervision competing sort of in the same room,
(16:16):
but not directly with one another.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah, but as we can see here from the outline,
Intervision only lasted from nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty,
so it would appear that the OG won out and
that there indeed was could only be one at least,
you know, ultimately.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Like you said, Highlander rules, right, So this is different.
This is a contrasting case to the Olympic Games, because
Intervision and Eurovision did not pick their number one winner
and then send those two folks to sing it out.
There were only a few instances, pretty rare, where artists
(16:59):
from the Soviet block appeared on Eurovision. That all changes
in nineteen eighty nine, the Berlin Wall falls and shout
out to everybody else who has a little relic of that.
The USSR collapsed. And this means that many formerly Soviet
(17:19):
states in Eastern Europe, what do they do? No, they
don't hang with Intervision. They immediately joined the Eurovision Song
Contest in the nineteen nineties, and doing so is way
easier than joining something like NATO. Yeah man, Nato, Huh,
(17:41):
how's that thing going? Yeah? Oh yeah? Tap the mic
like a nineteen eighty stand up NATO, guys. It just
I don't know, it just.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
The soft diplomacy stuff is such an interesting microcosm of
like larger political systems and how propaganda can ultimately be
more effective than things like NATO and like the UN
and governing bodies, and like what we're seeing right now
in the United States. Not to be like too political
about it, but we're really just seeing so much actual
(18:16):
international law is a matter of just folks deciding to
play nice and follow the rules, you know, And how
much more influential some of this soft diplomacy stuff can be,
and how you know, this branding kind of these branding
plays can really make more of a lasting impact than
(18:37):
even you know, how you vote in the UN or
like resolutions or even sanctions.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You know. I think what we're
all saying here is that makes sense. Yeah, it does.
It's well put. What we're all saying here is, while
Eurovision is a lot of fun, it's hacking minds. It's
building relationships in a way that in institutions like the
United Nations or NATO simply cannot. This is much more
(19:05):
than a singing contest. It is not just international diplomacy
at its finest, it is also international diplomacy at its weirdest,
at its most ridiculous, and that means naturally, Eurovision is
no stranger to controversy. And Noel, you, Max and I
(19:28):
were talking about this a little bit off air. This
is part of why we made this a two part series.
Eurovision has, despite its noble intent and its grand ambition,
been embroiled in so much controversy. We could sum it
up in three rough categories. Maybe we step through those
(19:50):
political tensions between competing countries that hell or high water
will not vote for each other ever at all, not
even if the song is clearly the best song. And
the second controversy is going to be entries or songs
being disqualified due to political references in song lyrics. Just
(20:16):
for an example.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Well, you know, Ben, I don't mean interup. We're gonna
get the examples real quick, but we're no stranger to that.
Over here in the United States, we've certainly seen artists
banned from say Saturday Night Live for Life for rage
shout out to rage, for having an upside down American flag.
I believe that they were told not to do, and
I also believe they switched songs the last minute. Shout
(20:39):
out to Elvis Costello who did the song radio Radio,
which is a total indictment of the broadcast system and
the idea of like artists and performers being kind of
slaves to these corporate interests. And of course shout out
to Sinad O'Connor for tearing up a photograph of the
(20:59):
post on live television.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Fight the real enemy.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
So you know, it's it's and this is not an
exclusively European phenomenon. This is something that you know, when
you're dealing with these live performances, politics can definitely make
things a little bit messy and make things a little
bit difficult for say the network in this case, for
the competition.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, at our third category of controversy, here would be demonstrations,
boycott's protests against certain countries. People are saying, don't let
this country compete because of their politics and their policies.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
When s talk about the right, probably the most extreme
version of that that's happening right now.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah. Yeah, as we build up to that, let's mention
the ongoing conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan. This these folks
get beefed up, so often in Eurovision. They both in
the late two thousands, but in two thousand and nine,
Get this, there were people in Azerbaijan, civilians, right, not military,
(22:11):
not professional judges or whatever, just regular people watching the
show and they vibed with Armenia's song and they voted
for it, and then later they were visited by law enforcement.
They got a heard you voted wrong. Imagine the police
(22:32):
knocking on your door because you voted wrong. In America's got.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Talent well, and that is not to put too fine
a point on it. The kind of stuff that it's
easy to take for granted, and that we've talked about
the slippery slope of some of the things going on
here again in this country, that one day some Facebook
post you liked, or some you know thing you've voted for,
you know poll you took could come back to haunt
(22:58):
you if they were to change, and may in certain
positions are made retroactively quote unquote illegal.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Right, Yeah, the retroactive illegality is a big concern of mine,
hopefully for everybody as well. I mean, we also know
there are some illegal.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Is also such a broad term, it might not even
be considered illegal. It's just at this point, the law
doesn't matter if you have a leader or a desk,
but that has so much power and has so much
influence over law enforcement, the law doesn't even matter. It's
just this person doesn't like you and doesn't like your opinion,
(23:37):
and they're going to come find you and make sure
that you're on a list.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And then we know where that can go exactly. And
we also know there are several elephants in the room
of Eurovision controversy. One of the biggest is obviously going
to be Russia and Ukraine. Now, originally pre twenty fourteen,
these nations peacefully participated in co competition, right of Eurovision,
(24:09):
We're all having fun. But then Russia invaded an annexed
Crimea in twenty fourteen, the war and don Bass popped off,
and in twenty sixteen Ukraine one Eurovision with a song
called nineteen forty four. The lyrics were talking about the
(24:30):
deportation of Tartars people in Crimea, and because of the
events in Crimea occurring right at the time, pretty much
everybody said, hey, this is not a political You guys
know what you're talking about. Everybody knows what you're talking about.
This is a statement against the nation of Russia. However,
(24:55):
the boffins, the judges, most importantly the producers and showrunners
got to together and they said, look, you can compete
because this song is about history. And the Russian delegation said, no,
screw you guys.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Also whose history and which history and which version of history?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right? Yeah, just so, I mean we know that the
country of Georgia, not the state. The country of Georgia
had gotten in trouble with Russia as well, because after
the Russo Georgian War, Georgia came out with a song
called we Don't want to put In, We don't want
(25:39):
to put In, Putin on the ritz. Yeah, And the
European Broadcasting Union objected to this and they said, look,
you guys are clearly doing, you know, a sneaky little
pun and you are criticizing Vladimir Putin. Were not dumb,
(26:01):
you guys, We're still very plugged in and cool. We
get it, and you shouldn't do it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
We're seeing some controversies like that, or we did see
some controversies like that, at least in terms of these
more low key kind of protests in the recent Winter Olympics,
specifically surrounding Palestine and Israel. And like I think there
was like a bobsletter that wore. Yeah, Max has got
the facts on this one were on his helmet some
sort of card with names of folks who were killed.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
It was a Ukrainian bob sletter I believe, who had
like photos of people who had been killed, but in
the in like the Russian in Vagins.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
So sorry, it wasn't wasn't a Palestine thing it was.
It was a Ukraine thing, so even more uh.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And he was he was not allowed to compete with
it on there and but he did it anyway.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Well, no, he wasn't allowed to compete.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
He wore he did, oh got it and he wore
and like.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Practice and told him you have to tick that you
can't wear that you were something confirms the whole a
political stance. And I remember hearing the president of it
of the IOCA her statement, and to get a little
on my own soapbox here, I said, somehow y'all are
still better than FIFA, but only FIFA, only FIFA.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
We're still holding it out for that FIFA Peace Prize,
which will be the first awarded to a podcast, and
let's make it happen that was Max with the facts.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
That seeking in the phones and peacefullen knowledge.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
It's just for you right now here with the facts.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Now we have to get to one of the biggest
controversies in all of Eurovision, and this is something that
is very sensitive to a lot of people. We're going
to be responsible about it. If you look at Eurovision
and you just hear the name, you would be reasonable
(28:02):
in assuming that Eurovision is a contest for European countries.
That is not always the case. There is a very
well known non European country regularly participating in Eurovision, and
that country is the Middle Eastern nation Israel.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Israel first competed in the contest in nineteen seventy three,
becoming the first country from outside of Europe or the
EU as it's known today, to enter. As participation in
the contest over the years has at times raised significant controversy,
as have you know, other actions at Israel have taken there.
(28:44):
They've always been a very dicey kind of political hot
button issue, especially well not especially, but certainly here in
the United States, in no small part because of our
super cozy relationship with them and some of the nasty
goings on that they you know, get into from time
to time.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah, a lot of this controversy will hinge on other
countries participating in Eurovision, and they'll raise concerns. They'll say,
what about the conflict in that region of the world,
the Israeli Palestinian conflicts, what about the wider Israeli Arab
(29:23):
conflict in that region? And so at various times in
the past, other countries have threatened to boycott Eurovision or
they've called for the Nation of Israel to be removed
from participating. Despite all that, this country, which again is
in the Middle East, not in Europe, has remained a
(29:46):
regular competitor since nineteen seventy three. The Nation of Israel
has not only one Eurovision four times, but has also
hosted it thrice for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And if you can imagine, a lot of people have
a lot of thoughts and feelings and opinions about what's
going on with Israel right now in terms of their
treatment of folks in Palestine and in terms of their
actions against Iran that we here in the United States
seem to have gotten, you know, more or less fully
(30:21):
on board with, and that has trickled and filtered into
how they are being looked at and treated in the
Eurovision competition again to that soft diplomacy or that kind
of political microcosm of it all. It really is an
interesting signifier, you know, of how the greater European world
(30:43):
is looking at these conflicts.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Oh yeah, one hundred percent. In twenty twenty five, just
last year, as we record, the Nation of Israel took
the top spot in the public vote, but they got
a score from the jury, so their popular vote was great.
Their electoral college vote, if we could call it that,
(31:07):
not so much. As a result, the European Broadcasting Union
introduced rules for stricter auditing lower public vote counts, and
then they put tighter restrictions on what they portrayed as
state sponsored promotion. So what the EBU was essentially saying
(31:29):
last year is that they were polite, they were diplomatic
in circumspect about it, but they clearly thought that on
some state sponsored level, the Nation of Israel was rigging
the vote for sure, which is like with a lot
of propaganda, not like forcing people to vote, but encouraging
(31:51):
them to only vote for their country propaganda.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
And you gotta wonder too, where we talking like hackery
are we talking about? I mean, I do seem to recall.
I was going to mention some dear friends of mine
in Berlin who are kind of the ones that really
hipped me to how massive the whole Eurovision thing is
over there. Like they have parties and it's just like
it's like a seasonal you know, like literally like a
social event of the season. They seem to think, and
(32:19):
these are folks who are in tech that there may
well have been some you know, shenanigans that play in
terms of rigging the vote, for ringing the vote for Israel,
because of course these things all involve using apps, you know,
using perhaps phone numbers that you can call, and there
are ways to spoof these kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, this is a standing concern for a lot of
Eurovision fans in Western Europe to be honest and across
the world, because look, Eurovision may be for primarily European
countries to participate, but the world is watching. People love
watching Eurovision, and everybody wants the competition to at least
(33:05):
feel fair. We know that controversies will surely crop up
in the future because Eurovision will continue. It is so
amazing to watch. It has got to be a wild
ride to participate in it, and it's also a key
piece of diplomacy. At this point, I think it's fair
(33:26):
to say that on balance Eurovision is ridiculous, but it
is also a tremendously positive thing for the world overall.
Is that safe to say?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
I think it is too, Ben, and I just want
to walk back what I said just briefly. I don't
know that we have evidence of hacking in terms of
it is more, like you said, Ben, a concerted effort
to do sort of like vote manipulations or you know,
kind of coercive voting. But there was an instance back
in twenty nineteen where it is Raeli webcast of the
(34:00):
first Eurovision semifinal was hacked to show faked explosions in
Tel Aviv. The Israeli national broadcaster COHN blamed Hamas for
the interruption, though the Palestinian group didn't comment. The TV
broadcast at large was not affected, but viewers tuning into
(34:21):
the con webcast all the warning risk of missile attack,
please take shelter under a fake logo of the Israeli
army and the sound of rocket warning sirens.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Turty stuff. Why can't we just have a one nice thing?
Why can't we just see why can't we just see
silly songs being sung by people? Man this so it
goes deep, learn more about the concept of soft diplomacy.
We talked off Mike and Max, Noel and I couldn't
(34:52):
leave you without a one last you know, digit Steve,
We we have to share some of our favorite weirdest
Eurovision songs ever, because again this thing started in nineteen
fifty six, aside from COVID, it kept going all the
(35:12):
way up to the modern day. I got to tell you, Noel,
two of my favorite Eurovision songs ever are every Way
that I Can by Sir toab Erener and Think About
Things by Daddie Freire. That is my guy, Doddy Fryar.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Got to see him perform here in Atlanta at the
Variety Playhouse. He had a giant inflatable of his head
on stage, because of course he did, of course he did.
And he's you know, his videos are just as delightful
that one you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Ben.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I think they're all wearing like weird sweaters in the video,
and then he's got some that they're just like weird
little after effects clones of himself and just really delightful stuff.
Real tall lanky dude, very into electronic music, kind of techno,
but it's sort of comedy music, but it's also just good.
Like I would have a lot of heart to him,
really a lot of heart, and he just seems like
(36:00):
a lovely guy. And he actually just moves to Berlin,
which is my favorite city in the EU, and makes
a whole lot of sense because that is sort of
the heart, the beating, the four on the floor beating
heart of the electronic music world.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Berlin is your favorite city out of that whole pseudo continent.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah, I just have really good friends there, and I
just love the history of the music scene, and you know,
a lot of the stuff that I'm into, and I
just dig the vibe there.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
It's cool. Nice. We also want to shout out the
weirdest Eurovision performances, things like Finland's monster rock band Lordie.
So if you are a fellow theatric rock nerd, you
might recall bands like Guar, Lordie, l O R d I.
(36:49):
They have a song called hard Rock Hallelujah. Check it out.
It's exactly what you're thinking about, it sure is.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
And I also want to pull a couple of fun
from an article the Guardian put out called Vampires, Naked
Apes and free Booze the twenty wildest Eurovision performances ever,
because you know, this absurd aspect of Eurovision is almost
as important as like say, the you know, having the
(37:17):
best pop song or being the most polished act. Vampires
are alive Switzerland two thousand and seven. Vampires are alive
in hell Sinky, they say, beginning this surreal Swiss pop entry,
which occasionally veered into Pirates of Penzance territory. It was
especially odd because, despite the subject matter, neither DJ Bobo
nor his crew resembled vampires. As Eurovision rules stipulate that
(37:41):
you can't have more than six performers on stage, whoa
that still holds a row of mannequins were added at
the back to make the stage look busier. The result
a band of not vampires lost in the pants department
of a Marks and Spencer. That must be a British
reference that I do not get, and I am reading
from this article directly. One more that I thought it
was fun was Helium to the Rescue. If you're unsure
(38:04):
whether you're going to hit the high note at Eurovision,
you can always take a leaf out of Sebastian Telier's book.
By the way, adore Sebastian Tellier. This guy's a serious
electronic artist from France who does really gorgeous kind of
lounge type music. But he arrived on stage driven in
a golf buggy and inhaled a helium balloon mid performance,
thereby raising his voice a couple octaves. Tellier ended up
(38:27):
coming in nineteenth in that year's final.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And let us not forget Dustin the Turkey representing Ireland
two thousand and eight. We're gonna play one real quick
clip and it counts as fair you so again, Turkey's
Ireland Dustin puppets. Now do you see it? Do you
(38:55):
see the puppet? I sure do, swear it?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Amazing, amazing, All right, we'll stop it.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I'm a little triggered.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Is a little bit dark, Crystal Skexies coded a little bit.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
But I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Ben, thanks for sharing to jump in here, because this
seems very relevant. I pulled this up before we even started.
But most Eurovision wins in the history of the competition,
it is.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
A tie between Sweden and Ireland.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
The two countries that famously have.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
Fun seven times each.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I Sweden I could have guessed that that would have
been one of my guesses.
Speaker 4 (39:42):
Ireland, Ireland.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
It's something in the eyes, you know. So we also
know that we also knew that there were entries into
Eurovision that we're bragging about agricultural goods. If you go
to twenty twelve, you'll see Russia's submission, which is Borronolskie
(40:07):
Babushki Party for everybody.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Bushki means everybody. I thought of Babushka. It was like
a like a little old lady.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Well it was, and they did have Russian Granny's baking
bread on stay thank that was part of their musical act.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Love It also shout out to Kate Bush, my favorite
artist of all time, second only maybe to David Bowie
for her song Babushka.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
It's shout out to those mad lads from Moldova who
got on unicycles. Of course, shout out to Estonia's chaotic
punk act Winnie Push. That's true, that's the real day.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
I believe it.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I believe it been so guys. This is all building
toward one of the biggest questions that we and our
fellow ridiculous historians have had over the past to episodes
of this series. When are we going to Eurovision? Will
accounting pay for it?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Let's go this weekend?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
We actually, we actually cannot go this weekend.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Stuff going on. We're gonna be on the road, y'all
doing ridiculous history from the Bahamas. Gosh, must be nice,
is what y'all are probably saying.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
It is work.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
We are stoked, and we're very grateful to Baja mar
the Resort for putting us up for a couple of
days and letting us record from their podcast studio, which
they apparently have.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yes, yeah, we will update when we are recording in
Baja Mark. Wish us the best, folks. We can't wait
to hear from you your favorite Eurovision songs. Give it
to us, your least favorite, give it to us the
ones that still thoroughly confuse you. Because Max Noll and
(41:55):
I each have our own collected set of just real
weird stuff from Eurovision. Big big thanks to our super
producer mister Max Williams, Big thanks to his biological brother
Alex Williams, who composed this track. And you know what,
Nol I think Alex would be great at Eurovision.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
The man's got stage presence, the man's got riz let's
put him forth as as the US, the first ever
US entry into Eurovision, though I'm pretty sure they wouldn't
have us at this point.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I don't know. I think it's all in the swagger. Okay,
So it's if it's Alex Max, you myself. We'd have
to add Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister. Can we put
him in the back maybe with like a what's the
least intrusive musical instrument? The kazoo? No, that's too far.
(42:51):
We'll give him a thereman. Can he drive a Theramy
Herman's pretty intrusive? Max goes high? Can we give him
like a triangle?
Speaker 4 (42:59):
You can get truth of what the triangle ben? All right,
it's not all right to stay on the air, but
I can tell you later.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Okay, Well tuned in for the after show, folks, which
I guess means Texas or hit us up on ridiculous
historians over on Facebook. Big thanks to Christopher hasiotis here
in spirit. Big thanks to use Jeffcoat, who recently returned
to South Africa. By the way, I think she's okay
(43:26):
with us saying that. No, I don't think either of
us were able to make it to her yoga session
when she was back in town.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
No, sadly, but that's because everybody Dylan who does live
music for it and also produces our show stuff, they
don't want you to know. He told me it's sold out,
so I'm looking forward to trying out the next one.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Big thanks as well to aj Bahama's Jacob's The Puzzler,
and big thanks to Rachel Big, Spinach, Lance and man Ben.
I got to thank you twice over for this.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
One because you were the research associate on this episode,
this pair of episodes as well as my You know,
we could maybe be a Eurovision duo. We just have
to renounce our citizenship.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Okay, yeah, the price dropped for that, that's what I heard.
I think we can afford it. We'll go in Apsi's
We'll see you next time, Poets.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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