September 24, 2026 • 34 mins
Did you know reindeer love tripping? Or that, once upon a time, otherwise responsible parents would dose their children with high-test opioids? In the second chapter of their ongoing series, Ben, Noel, and Max welcome returning guest Zaron Burnett, co-creator of Ridiculous Crime, to learn more about bizarre drugs of yesteryear.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer,
Max Winslow Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Max Reindeer Velvet. Max the Velvet Reindeer Williams.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
How about that?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
That's Noel Brown. They call me Ben Bullen for tax purposes.
And we, Noel, Max, we are in Chapter 2 of a, well,
Chapter 3, technically, of a continuing exploration of on weird
stuff people used to get high off of. And we
have really classed it up, you guys, because we are
joined with our returning special guest. I can't believe we
(01:07):
got into the schedule and his writer is crazy. It's
Zarin Burnett.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Yo, what up, gentlemen? I remember I said all brown
M & Ms, so make sure I want that.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, yeah, we're counting them.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We are meticulous about our guests' riders.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
I appreciate that. I really do. It's respect. I can
feel it, you know?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
100%. Thanks, guys, for having me. Of course.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Always a fun time with y'all.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Oh, dude, the best.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
What do you say we just jump right into our
conversation already in progress?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
We got to get to another drug of yesteryear. We're
going to be less anthrocentric here. Guys, we got to
get to reindeer.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Reindeer?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Are you a fan?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, are you a fan? Like antlers? Are we scraping
little bits off the antlers and snorting them? You know
I love reindeers.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Is this why Rudolph has a red nose?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah. Alcoholism.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh, geez. Yeah, Rudolph had his inner demons. We're pretty sure. So, reindeers,
in addition to having one troubling superhero, they are also
super into getting high. They love mushrooms.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Mushrooms.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
They love them.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, they love the fly agaric mushroom, Amanita muscaria, if
it has a tie on and has to meet the parents.
It's so weird, you guys, because reindeer or caribou, if
you want, they are herbivorous, but it doesn't mean they're
automatically not fun. And I say that as a former vegan.
(02:56):
It's weird because, guys, we're talking about a species of
animal that lives in an unforgiving climate, right? Threats are
super large. Resources are sparse. These guys have for thousands
and thousands of years actively sought out specifically the fly
(03:16):
agaric mushroom.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Now, I mentioned the stoned ape theory at the top
of the show, and this is this concept that primates
who consumed psychotropic mushrooms— were able to hunt better. It
increased their visual acuity and their ability to kind of like,
you know, hone in on their prey. If anyone's ever
experienced anything, even a mild, you know, cannabis high, it
(03:41):
does kind of sharpen your senses a little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So that theory is fascinating.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So are these reindeer been consuming these things because they
just like getting lit or is it helping them out
in some aspect of their existence?
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah, it's like stress reduction. You're like, I got a
lot of grizzly bears. I'm going to need to like
take a little edge off. Right.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It's been a hard day on the tundra, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
There's this fat, red-suited man that keeps coming around trying
to recruit me.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
What is with that guy? It is interesting because it's
not especially filling as a foodstuff. It doesn't contain some
rare nutrients, right? It doesn't produce some sort of miracle
smell that'll dissuade your predators. But it does, to your point, Zarin.
(04:28):
Hey kids, those reindeer super waxed. Yeah, it absolutely rocks
them so much so that they don't just regularly seek
it out. They teach their young how to find it,
to dig through snow. And as we all know, teaching
other generations, huge mark of intelligence, right? They kind of
(04:52):
like pigs and truffles. They will, just go across.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Go across vast swaths of land. And basically once they
ingest them, these fungi, the reindeer are as wild as
a tourist. If their first day in new Orleans is
Mardi Gras.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Oh, hell yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Hand grenades, baby hurricanes and hand grenades. Ben, this was
ringing a bell for me. And I mentioned when you
brought this up, like, what do you scrape the antlers
or whatever? And that's because I've been on a bit
of a, nerdy fitness kick lately and so like the
internet keeps feeding me ads for all these like supplements
and things and reindeer organ meat and ground up reindeer
(05:35):
guts and hearts and liver as well as antler velvet
are a very in vogue.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Antler velvet yeah like the little in vogue supplement right now.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I see people go out there and try to collect it.
I always assumed it was for some reason, because I
know people actually go out and collect the racks of antlers.
But now I see people big on going out to
collect the velvet. And this now makes perfect sense. It's
for supplements. I bet they're getting a pretty penny.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Apparently super vitamin rich in A and B12. So it's
good for immunity.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Claims, of course, guys, we know that supplements can be
pretty sus in terms of like what the claims are
versus what.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
They actually do.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Do you remember when the FDA was a thing?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, I feel like they disbanded it.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Claims of energy and vitality and even increasing testosterone.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You know, and things like that. So you'll see these ads.
They'll be called like carnivore bars. Bills or some crazy
thing like that. The FDA, what's left of it, does
lack any robust evaluation of these things in terms of
like what they actually might do. Another claim is that
they can cause increased joint health. Um, something that's referred
(06:48):
to in the claims as general vitality, which seems.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Real vague and, uh, reduced inflammation, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, Hey, it's not Lieutenant vitality. It's general vitality.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
It also seems like vitality and reduced inflation should not
be in the same conversation with each other.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah. Uh, Jared, at this point we have to, we
have to pause real quick, uh, not to put you
on the spot, but, uh, Are you morally opposed to
hallucinogenic substances?
Speaker 4 (07:21):
No, not at all. In fact, I've been, we'll call
it a traveler in those spaces many, many times. I
don't really mess around with mushrooms anymore because it just
kept making my stomach sicker and sicker as I was
doing them to the point that like the first two
hours would just be brutal. And then I'd have like,
you know, a number of hours where it was very enjoyable.
And then it got to three hours. Then it was
like four. I was like, okay, now I'm getting like
(07:42):
only a couple hours of actual enjoyment. So I would
now at this point pretty much mess around with LSD
more than mushrooms. I've never had an ayahuasca trip. I've
always kind of been curious about that. DMT I've messed
around with. I've basically tried, I'd say, most of the
common hallucinogens. But at this point, I'm pretty much down
(08:03):
to just LSD 25. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And a big thing that people are doing these days,
which I recently tried for the first time, is microdosing
on LSD where you can– like I always thought it
was sort of an all-or-nothing thing. But it turns out
that it is pretty popular to just take a.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Like a tiny little snippet.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
A little dot basically, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
A little– exactly. And there are, as we know– very
reasonably well-studied, it would seem, mental health benefits from supervised
use of hallucinogens.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Cary Grant was a huge fan of LSD and talked
prolifically about it, even in Good Housekeeping magazine in the 1950s.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
We talked about that. That's right.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
We genuinely– I didn't know that until we– I believe
it was on an episode a handful of years ago.
But the Cary Grant good housekeeping interview about the benefits
of tripping is a thing to behold.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Cary Grant. In the 1950s. He was way before the
hippies too. People were like, oh.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
He was a real booster. He was a real– Huge fan.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
He's probably also a fan of reindeer.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And I think that's, that's a good point too, Zarin, because,
you know, you're talking about these reindeers, like, why would
they eat this?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Like, it's not particularly helpful. It doesn't particularly fill them up.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And maybe it isn't just about getting high. And it
did impart some kind of, whether it be visual or
auditory acuity or just some, Something that caused them some
level of relief or calm against them grizzly bears you
were talking about.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah, totally. Maybe you make some better parents. You know,
they're like, I'm going to pay more attention to my kids.
They suddenly got more interesting. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
They're like, reindeer dad is way cooler now. And we also,
we are mentioning this not just because of the caribou
or the reindeer. It's because humans... have rocked Fly Agaric
as well. They look like the mushrooms from the Mario franchise, right?
You got a red cap, little white dots.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
A little big up. Uh, we know that indigenous cultures
in Siberia have a deep historical usage of fly agaric
in one way or another. And it's usually not going
to be super recreational, like chewing betel.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Nut or something. It's, it's, it's more ritualistic.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Ritualistic.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Just the perfect word. Uh, We found some interesting speculation,
you guys, that delivering on our earlier references about Rudolph,
the consumption of fly agaric in northern or Scandinavian parts
of the world. It may be part of the reason
(10:35):
why we have all these stories about some wild guy
named Santa Claus. who hangs out with reindeer, who can
inexplicably fly.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Dude!
Speaker 2 (10:45):
It's like a lot of the poultices that supposed witches
would make.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
They're flying ointments.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
They're really just psychedelic substances that would cause them to
think they were flying.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
It would get you off and you're like, okay, all
of a sudden I'm up in the clouds. You're like,
not really. You're still weird with it. No, man, I'm
up in the clouds.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I'm up in the clouds. Who wants a gift? And
that saves the night, right?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So we know that these substances, the active substances in
fly agaric are stuff like ibotenic acid, musimol, which to
me sounds like a made-up pharmaceutical brand, musimol. Feels like
it's got a lot of fine print at the end
of a commercial.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I was in a hotel for the first time in
a while, a couple of days ago, and I just
had the TV on mute. And, you know, you only
see them on TV, these pharmaceutical advertisements with like the idyllic,
you know, frolicking families or whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Just jump in vaguely.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
The names of them, man. This one was like Baltimorea
or something. I mean, it was just, they're just absolutely
made up.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
It's like choosing a car name, you know. we also
have a future episode. You got to hang out with
us on Zarin where we figure out a very small
group of people who make pharmaceutical names in the West.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's got to be some sort of a committee, you know,
they got to, if they focus group, it's right.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
It has to be very similar to any other kind
of branding, right?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It's so small. I'm sure it's like three etymology nerds
going proteo via. Right. You know, that sounds like several words.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Vi-an-stra.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Vi-an-stra, you know, because it's via the anstra.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Hulu.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Wait, that's different.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
No, I was close. I thought you were good. We
know you should not consume fly agaric, right? because it
can lead to nausea, vomiting, muscle twitches at the far end.
It can give your reindeer seizures or comas.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I don't want my reindeers dropping with the comas, no. No.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
You've always said that.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah, it's one of my stances.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
But, you know, these reindeers, they're experienced. They know what
they're doing. They know what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Zara Burnett says, Hummus, okay on a cheese sandwich. Also,
I want my reindeer.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Coma free.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Coma free.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
I still got the bumper stickers to move if you
guys are interested.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Always.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Spread the word.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Can we get a price break?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I'm a guy that collects bumper stickers and never puts
them on anything.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Oh, nice.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
So what I'm hearing is it's Zarin's Coma-Free Reindeer Supplement.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
That's the brand. There we go.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Slap that on the side of a wagon and let's
go to town.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Let's go through Winslow's Soothing Syrup.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, we need this. Max, you got to introduce us
to this next one, man. As Noel was teasing, this
is a perfect medicine show comparison to Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Yeah, I was doing a little researching on this. And,
you know, we have an episode about snake oil in
the past, which is pretty funny because we're going from
reindeer supplements to, which, you know, could be argued as
modern day snake oil.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Well, you got to oil your snakes, man. Nobody wants
dry snakes.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
You don't want a squeaky snake.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
You don't want a squeaky snake. You'll hear it coming
a mile. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Exactly.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
And Ben, if I remember correctly, what we found out
in our snake oil episode was like, you know, in
East Asia, they would harvest water snakes.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
For the fatty oils, correct? Correct. But.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Then they try to do that with rattlesnakes in America
who are quite slender and don't have fatty oils. But so, yeah,
I mean, I think this era of just is we've
spent a lot of time in ridiculous history talking about
this oddly with like ice cream as well. This early
pharmaceutical Coca-Cola rising up era. And that's where I want
(14:52):
to introduce us to the idea of this thing called Mrs.
Winslow's Soothing Syrup, which unlike snake oil, actually had things
in it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Which is kind of the problem. Maybe a few too
many things.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Like are you- Like Vitamita Vegemin. Remember that I Love
Lucy episode? Where she just keeps drinking it and just
getting absolutely plastered?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
One of my favorites.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Shared agreements between those two things.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Now, before we continue, I've got to say Zerod, I
am so impressed and so unsurprised that you instantly knew
the etymology of snake oil.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, like, it's one of those things, like,
you hear it and, you know, I don't know at
what age, I think it was 12 or 13, you
get curious, like, where does this come from? Why do
we eat snake oil? And then I looked it up
and I was like, oh, that's fascinating. And then, you know,
in more recent times, we've kind of referenced it on
Ridiculous Crime a couple of times and then had to, like,
break down the derivation of where this comes from and
why it's called that and why it was bunk.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Well, and to your point, Max, I mean, we really
are living in kind of a new era of snake oil. 100%.
With a lot of the way things are advertised and
things can get around a lot of these FDA approval
guidelines by just being, quote, unquote, not for human consumption.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah, exactly. And we also get the whole, like, medicine
show level with the supplements, but we're just doing it
on our phones now.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
On TV.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Or, yeah, like it used to be on, like, you know,
cable access kind of stuff or, like, a lot of
these religious folks selling buckets of slop and bone broth.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Also, the AI bubble is another bit of snake oil.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
No question about it.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I'll just say it. So, folks, we're an audio podcast,
so please know in your hearts that all four of
us shrugged and unanimously agreed with that last statement.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
No question, no question. So what are we talking about?
What was all the stuff that was in this soothing
syrup that apparently was being fed to infants quite frequently?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, since 1849, right? We've got, you know how, we'll
do a fake commercial. You know how it is. It's 1849,
stuff is crazy. And your kids keep talking. We're dying.
So how do we... How do we shut them up?
How do we shut up those children? Well, according to
(17:08):
Karen Berger, writing over at Pharmacy Times, Charlotte N. Winslow,
a pediatric nurse, created Mrs. Winslow's soothing syrup to... to
shut up children.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
So, you know, soothe fussy babies. Of course.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Oh, sure. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
If we're putting on our marketing hats.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right. Right.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Does your baby cry too much? Try soothing. Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
We'd like to pivot to non-verbal children. So, apparently the
syrup is created in, Max, you can tell us more
about this, by her son-in-law.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Yeah, so as you mentioned, Charlotte Ann Winslow created the formula,
and she was a nurse, but it was actually her son-in-law,
this guy by the name of Jeremiah Curtis, who started
production of the whole thing back in 1849, along with
a partner by the name of Benjamin Perkins. In this
place called Bangor, Maine?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Bangor, Maine? Something like that?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Bangor.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, Bangor, Maine.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Bangor, Maine.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That's for Stephen King. That's Stephen King country. And you
know what the ultimate sign of good snake oil is?
It's the thing that says.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
It'll do everything. It'll do like 10 different things. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Well, that's a great question, Noel, because now we have
to ask ourselves, what does this patent medicine do?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Do?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Does it do everything?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
It claims it will calm small children, clean their teeth,
freshen their breath, and also relieve constipation while you're at it. Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Four benefits in one. Not one, not two, not three,
but four.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Four. Well, that also feels more legitimate because it's not
saying it's a panacea, right? It's not saying.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
It'll cure everything.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Not a cure-all, not an ultimate fountain of youth type thing.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
But it will take care of both ends of your baby.
That's also true. Snout to tail.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
If your kid's too hairy, you got to find a
different syrup. But for these four problems, we've got it.
And they're very successful because... all of their marketing shows
these very, uh, happy, giddy, non, uh, constipated, non-fussy babies.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Uh, the story of snake oil is also a story
of marketing because to your point, Ben, like all, a
lot of these things were, especially the ones that actually
had no active ingredients.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Um, they were just selling a story, which is marketing.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
They're basically selling like the, uh, the what do you
call it the oh my god it just ran out
of my head what's the the effect when you take
a drug and you thank you the placebo effect so
basically it's just they're selling the placebo effect like this
is going to work because you believe it's going to work.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And guys placebo is hell of a drug is.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It yeah absolutely the psychological effects of belief exactly incredibly
strong we've we've seen studies in that as well and
i we've.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Got to tell you folks here Now that we're being
very fair, hopefully, with the historical context, this is not
a placebo. This is a.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Banger, man.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, yeah. The soothing syrup is super active in a
problematic way. We're talking 65 milligrams of morphine.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Holy crap.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Or morphine. I don't know, guys.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
I'm not cool enough.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
That's how you say it in the South. That's how
we say it. Morphine. Morphine.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Okay. And then it also had booze in there.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Alcohol for the children.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Well, you know what they say. A teaspoon, a spoonful
of morphine helps the medicine go down.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yep. Yep. I feel like we went to the same
day here.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
In the most delightful way.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
These babies were high as hell.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
So, so apparently- One teaspoon full of recommended dosage had
the morphine content equivalent to 20 drops of laudanum. Oh, wow.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
And they said, look, if your baby is six months
old or beyond, right, forget that they're not really forming
personalities yet. Just be cool and make sure that you
don't give them more than two to three drops of
laudanum or more. give them a teaspoonful of this.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I mean, if anyone's seen Deadwood, laudanum is the drug
that a lot of the, or at least in the
first season, the kind of the wife of the dude,
as they call him, who is coming from the big city.
She's addicted to it.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, Alma, right? Yeah, Alma, because she's prescribed it by
a doctor for her vapors or whatever.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah, I got the pain spells. 100%.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
But guys, I know we're joking around about this, but
let's just be real. This is getting infants addicted to opiates.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
This is gnarly stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
And you've looked into the passage of the so-called Wild
West in your previous work, Zarin. Did you run into– now,
of course, I know black cowboys, but did you run
into in your research evidence of how casually or not
(22:21):
casually these kinds of substances were treated?
Speaker 4 (22:24):
It was pretty casual. Largely, the expense was the issue.
So to Noel's point, you would find more middle-class and
upper-class people who have strong laudanum and morphine habits. But
then by the time you get into the era of
The Chinese railroad workers and then San Francisco having a
large Chinatown community, then morphine and opium become very popular
(22:47):
once it is opium. And then you're now, you've basically
made like the crack version of cocaine so people can
go and they can smoke it and get off and
it's not medically controlled as much. And that's when it
really just spreads as opium. But as laudanum, it was
much more likely to be like, you know, the wife
of the sheriff who's sipping on it when he's not home.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And then the opium is when you started seeing it
hit a little bit more mainstream.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Hitting the streets in the form of these kind of taverns.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, opium dens. Totally. Oh, geez.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So we're saying the costs went down and economy of
scale kicked in?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And availability went way up. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Oh, geez.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
We know that the soothing syrup by Mrs. Winslow was
not problematic in any freaking way. It was super popular
because a lot of people apparently wanted their kids to
shut up. Or, guys, I posit to you that more
than a few thousand people probably bought it to use themselves.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
When you buy a Happy Meal at McDonald's and they're like,
you're 40.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Once you caught on, you know, someone actually took a
little sip of their kid's medicine, like, ooh, I kind
of like that.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
This is Butterwell's heroin syrup.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Good for the baby, good for daddy.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Good for daddy.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
There we go. We know that in an 1868 court summary,
There were reports that 1.5 million bottles of soothing syrup
had been sold.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Surely some babies were killed.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Per year.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Surely babies were killed. They had to. I mean, come on.
This is like the levels you're talking about? The concentration? Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And you know that if one drop doesn't work, you
can give them another drop. And then maybe, you know,
there are some parents that weren't exactly adhering to a
label that already was not very specific.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah, or they want to go out that night. They're like, well,
just double the dosage. Maybe make sure the baby doesn't
cry throughout the night. You know, it doesn't bother the neighbors.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
It's pretty dark, man.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Do we want a babysitter? Because we have this bottle.
We got the syrup. This is super dark, by the way. Like, yes,
we've nailed it because there are no official statistics on
the number of children that died due to exposure to
stuff like this. But we do know roughly, if we're guessing,
(25:24):
that thousands of children died may have been overdosed with it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Oh because it was all self-reporting right right it wouldn't
have been like an investigation it would have been what
they might have called a caught death or you know
oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
Yeah that was actually when i was doing the research
on this part like some that was one of the
more morbid things was a lot of the deaths they
their estimates are like a lot of people just didn't
realize it was the syrup doing especially because it was
a pan medicine They didn't list what was in it.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
And also, a lot of babies and children were dying
at this time, so it wasn't unsurprising to lose a child.
It was like, oh, well, we lost another one, Doc.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I hate how historically accurate that is. We also know
that there were definitely multiple cases of people who got addicted, right?
We know that there are definitely cases of withdrawal cases. Wherein, like,
(26:21):
isn't that, remind me of this, Noel, not to call
you out, which drug is the one that can kill
you with withdrawal?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
That is, well, there are numerous ones, but I mean, actually, weirdly, Xanax,
what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Benzodiazepine withdrawal can be incredibly dangerous and doctors prescribe those for,
you know, just mild anxiety. I do think they're a
little more cautious about it nowadays because it is known
that those withdrawals can be incredibly fatal.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
But that is, I think, what you're thinking of, Ben.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Totally. Also with alcohol, you have to be careful about
how you step down. Going cold turkey can kill you
too with alcohol.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Especially if you're truly physically dependent.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
I don't mean to make light, but it is kind
of ironic that this, you know, opiate medicated drinks are
kind of back in vogue in a way with uh
really yeah well it's good i mean it's they're they're
they're kind of in the culture you know and they're
like in in pop culture like talking about the syrup
or making taking codeine and mixing it with sprite and
all that.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I thought i i thought you meant not for babies
so much i thought you meant like uh G-O, instead
of Gatorade Zero, it's a Gatorade with opium? What could
go wrong?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
No, but there is a subculture of folks that are
highly addicted to drinking opiates.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Starting with side tangentially associated ones like the Robitussin and
using medical, like using drugs that have either, not opium itself,
but things that are very similar in terms of how
the effect is, people now, like purple drink is essentially
very much the same thing.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Right, and I think we're all somewhat of the same
generation where we remember the stories you were referencing, Zarin,
about robo-tripping.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Yeah, robo-tripping, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Which I always thought was a prank.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
It is real.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
There's some active ingredient in it that isn't just alcohol
that can make it.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I can't remember that.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, I can't remember it either. I was trying to
think of what it was.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
It's a specific thing. These drugs we've discussed do exist,
and we got to a very dark place. But we
do want to end on a high note.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
This whole episode's been a high note.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
This whole episode has been a high note.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Zarin, you like animals, right, man?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
I love animals. Big fan. Some people say I like
them more than people, but I don't think that's fair
because I consider people animals. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, right on. Right there with you. Where are we
at on big cats?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Oh, man. I love big cats. Big, big fan of
big cats. Like, I have opinions about, like, what's your
favorite Tigers, Aaron? I'm like, oh, definitely. I'm going to
have to go with Siberians over Bengals. I like Bengals,
but Siberians.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So, yeah, Siberians got it, though, because they can remember
and they hunt down.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yes. The stories with the Russian hunters and stuff where
they wait out and he's like, oh, man, you took
my kill. Now you are my kill.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Well, I'm a big fan of the Liger because they're
bred for their skills and magic.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
We're also we're asking you this for a reason. We
wanted to end on a high note. Zarin, Noel and
I were very excited to learn. that the humble jaguar
loves ayahuasca.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Really? Yeah, this is true.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Out. They're like, this is the stuff, man. I'm about this. Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah. They have found the vine, right? The one that
contains DMT that will be used in ritualistic, shamanistic human experiences.
They kind of treat it like catnip.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Microdosing them, basically.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, they chew on the vines and the leaves, and
then they roll around in it. And then apparently for
several hours after, they are super cool.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Less likely to eat your face.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, that is a concern. Those are some vicious big
cats and strong as hell.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, and they can get in the trees.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Yeah, they'll take you with them right up into the trees.
They're like, come on.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
So shout out to all the DMT Jaguars in the crowd.
Dolphins get high off puffer fish.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Can you tell us a little bit about that or
what you know about it?
Speaker 4 (30:41):
From what I understand, they just agitate the puffer fish
that they do their puffering and then they get high
off of the active ingredients, which is essentially, once again,
a toxin.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
It's a venom, right?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, it's a venom. So they figure out how to
get the right dosage. So they're kind of micro dosing
puffer fish toxin and then they get off and then
they go and like play with their buddies and go
rub themselves on rocks. So it's like a thing for them. Heard. Same.
Who are we to judge? Isn't that funny, though?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I mean, the same kind of experimentation that humans have
done for centuries, whether it be culinarily, like who ate
the first oyster?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
That thing doesn't look like a good idea to you.
I mean, it happens in the animal kingdom.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
You know, along a long enough timeline, we're kind of
technically part of the animal kingdom.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Of course. Not that much different than our animal kingdom.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Shout out, bloodhound gang.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
It's crazy it took all of us so long to
get to it.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah. That's true. Man, I think we put a pin
in this one, guys.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
This is definitely an ongoing series, and I think we
should have Zarin back for another one. We got a
little bit of tangents and trivia here that we're going
to save because we're going on a journey, Ben and
Max and I, so we need to buffer up a
little bit. So we're going to do sort of a
leftovers episode in the coming weeks while we're.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
On our cruise. I love leftovers, so if you want
to have me back, I'll.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Come roll through. Bro, are you serious?
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, for real. Please, dude.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Also, Zarin, as we're wrapping up, just backstage, folks— This
is a whole week with Zarin Burnett, the creator of
not only Black Cowboys, the creator of very special episodes,
of course, the creator of Ridiculous Crime, along with Elizabeth
Dutton and Who we're also.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Going to have on in the very near future, as
well as the aforementioned game show format that we're going
to do before the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Which Zarin invented.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yeah, we got some fun planned for y'all.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Zarin invented the game show.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
That's wild. Little fun facts. History of sitting.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
On a plane, everyone was smoking, and he's like, what
if we have game shows?
Speaker 5 (32:32):
And reindeer supplements, but coma free.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Love it.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
That's back when reindeer could fly on planes as well
before they got the sleighs. Well, Zarin, man, thank you
so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Bro, where can people go to learn more about your work?
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Best place is go listen to Ridiculous Crime with me
and Elizabeth Dutton. It's a really fun, fantastic show. And
thank you guys for giving us that platform to have
fun with our fans and crowds.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Recently listed as one of, I think it was Entertainment
Weekly's top crime podcast.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Yes, top 30 best true crime podcasts of all time.
We were really stoked on that. 99% murder free. Yes, 100% ridiculous.
So go check it out. And then obviously very special episodes.
We do magazine style stories where... They're like little mini movies,
and I highly recommend that. And as you pointed out,
there's always Black Cowboys. If you'd like to hear about
the history of the West you don't normally get to
(33:27):
learn about, there's plenty of stories, and they're much similar
to very special episodes where they're like little mini movies.
But in this case, they're like little mini Westerns.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Big, big thanks to our super producer, Max Soothing Syrup Williams. Big,
big thanks to A.J. Bahamas Jacobs, a.k.a. The Puzzler, that
you would love to hang out with, Zarek.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
What a cool guy.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Jonathan Strickland, the Quister, Christopher Haciotis, Anita Jeff Goods here
in spirit. Ben, thank you for whipping this list together
in a pinch, man. I know that we were under
the gun and it really, really worked out beautifully. And
I'm excited to add to it and continue on with
this weird stuff people got high to series on Ridiculous History.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer,
Max Winslow Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Max Reindeer Velvet. Max the Velvet Reindeer Williams.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
How about that?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
That's Noel Brown. They call me Ben Bullen for tax purposes.
And we, Noel, Max, we are in Chapter 2 of a, well,
Chapter 3, technically, of a continuing exploration of on weird
stuff people used to get high off of. And we
have really classed it up, you guys, because we are
joined with our returning special guest. I can't believe we
(01:07):
got into the schedule and his writer is crazy. It's
Zarin Burnett.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Yo, what up, gentlemen? I remember I said all brown
M & Ms, so make sure I want that.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, yeah, we're counting them.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We are meticulous about our guests' riders.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
I appreciate that. I really do. It's respect. I can
feel it, you know?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
100%. Thanks, guys, for having me. Of course.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Always a fun time with y'all.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Oh, dude, the best.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
What do you say we just jump right into our
conversation already in progress?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
We got to get to another drug of yesteryear. We're
going to be less anthrocentric here. Guys, we got to
get to reindeer.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Reindeer?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Are you a fan?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, are you a fan? Like antlers? Are we scraping
little bits off the antlers and snorting them? You know
I love reindeers.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Is this why Rudolph has a red nose?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah. Alcoholism.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh, geez. Yeah, Rudolph had his inner demons. We're pretty sure. So, reindeers,
in addition to having one troubling superhero, they are also
super into getting high. They love mushrooms.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Mushrooms.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
They love them.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, they love the fly agaric mushroom, Amanita muscaria, if
it has a tie on and has to meet the parents.
It's so weird, you guys, because reindeer or caribou, if
you want, they are herbivorous, but it doesn't mean they're
automatically not fun. And I say that as a former vegan.
(02:56):
It's weird because, guys, we're talking about a species of
animal that lives in an unforgiving climate, right? Threats are
super large. Resources are sparse. These guys have for thousands
and thousands of years actively sought out specifically the fly
(03:16):
agaric mushroom.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Now, I mentioned the stoned ape theory at the top
of the show, and this is this concept that primates
who consumed psychotropic mushrooms— were able to hunt better. It
increased their visual acuity and their ability to kind of like,
you know, hone in on their prey. If anyone's ever
experienced anything, even a mild, you know, cannabis high, it
(03:41):
does kind of sharpen your senses a little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So that theory is fascinating.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So are these reindeer been consuming these things because they
just like getting lit or is it helping them out
in some aspect of their existence?
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah, it's like stress reduction. You're like, I got a
lot of grizzly bears. I'm going to need to like
take a little edge off. Right.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It's been a hard day on the tundra, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
There's this fat, red-suited man that keeps coming around trying
to recruit me.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
What is with that guy? It is interesting because it's
not especially filling as a foodstuff. It doesn't contain some
rare nutrients, right? It doesn't produce some sort of miracle
smell that'll dissuade your predators. But it does, to your point, Zarin.
(04:28):
Hey kids, those reindeer super waxed. Yeah, it absolutely rocks
them so much so that they don't just regularly seek
it out. They teach their young how to find it,
to dig through snow. And as we all know, teaching
other generations, huge mark of intelligence, right? They kind of
(04:52):
like pigs and truffles. They will, just go across.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Go across vast swaths of land. And basically once they
ingest them, these fungi, the reindeer are as wild as
a tourist. If their first day in new Orleans is
Mardi Gras.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Oh, hell yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Hand grenades, baby hurricanes and hand grenades. Ben, this was
ringing a bell for me. And I mentioned when you
brought this up, like, what do you scrape the antlers
or whatever? And that's because I've been on a bit
of a, nerdy fitness kick lately and so like the
internet keeps feeding me ads for all these like supplements
and things and reindeer organ meat and ground up reindeer
(05:35):
guts and hearts and liver as well as antler velvet
are a very in vogue.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Antler velvet yeah like the little in vogue supplement right now.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I see people go out there and try to collect it.
I always assumed it was for some reason, because I
know people actually go out and collect the racks of antlers.
But now I see people big on going out to
collect the velvet. And this now makes perfect sense. It's
for supplements. I bet they're getting a pretty penny.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Apparently super vitamin rich in A and B12. So it's
good for immunity.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Claims, of course, guys, we know that supplements can be
pretty sus in terms of like what the claims are
versus what.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
They actually do.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Do you remember when the FDA was a thing?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, I feel like they disbanded it.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Claims of energy and vitality and even increasing testosterone.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You know, and things like that. So you'll see these ads.
They'll be called like carnivore bars. Bills or some crazy
thing like that. The FDA, what's left of it, does
lack any robust evaluation of these things in terms of
like what they actually might do. Another claim is that
they can cause increased joint health. Um, something that's referred
(06:48):
to in the claims as general vitality, which seems.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Real vague and, uh, reduced inflammation, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, Hey, it's not Lieutenant vitality. It's general vitality.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
It also seems like vitality and reduced inflation should not
be in the same conversation with each other.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah. Uh, Jared, at this point we have to, we
have to pause real quick, uh, not to put you
on the spot, but, uh, Are you morally opposed to
hallucinogenic substances?
Speaker 4 (07:21):
No, not at all. In fact, I've been, we'll call
it a traveler in those spaces many, many times. I
don't really mess around with mushrooms anymore because it just
kept making my stomach sicker and sicker as I was
doing them to the point that like the first two
hours would just be brutal. And then I'd have like,
you know, a number of hours where it was very enjoyable.
And then it got to three hours. Then it was
like four. I was like, okay, now I'm getting like
(07:42):
only a couple hours of actual enjoyment. So I would
now at this point pretty much mess around with LSD
more than mushrooms. I've never had an ayahuasca trip. I've
always kind of been curious about that. DMT I've messed
around with. I've basically tried, I'd say, most of the
common hallucinogens. But at this point, I'm pretty much down
(08:03):
to just LSD 25. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And a big thing that people are doing these days,
which I recently tried for the first time, is microdosing
on LSD where you can– like I always thought it
was sort of an all-or-nothing thing. But it turns out
that it is pretty popular to just take a.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Like a tiny little snippet.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
A little dot basically, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
A little– exactly. And there are, as we know– very
reasonably well-studied, it would seem, mental health benefits from supervised
use of hallucinogens.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Cary Grant was a huge fan of LSD and talked
prolifically about it, even in Good Housekeeping magazine in the 1950s.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
We talked about that. That's right.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
We genuinely– I didn't know that until we– I believe
it was on an episode a handful of years ago.
But the Cary Grant good housekeeping interview about the benefits
of tripping is a thing to behold.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Cary Grant. In the 1950s. He was way before the
hippies too. People were like, oh.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
He was a real booster. He was a real– Huge fan.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
He's probably also a fan of reindeer.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And I think that's, that's a good point too, Zarin, because,
you know, you're talking about these reindeers, like, why would
they eat this?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Like, it's not particularly helpful. It doesn't particularly fill them up.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And maybe it isn't just about getting high. And it
did impart some kind of, whether it be visual or
auditory acuity or just some, Something that caused them some
level of relief or calm against them grizzly bears you
were talking about.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah, totally. Maybe you make some better parents. You know,
they're like, I'm going to pay more attention to my kids.
They suddenly got more interesting. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
They're like, reindeer dad is way cooler now. And we also,
we are mentioning this not just because of the caribou
or the reindeer. It's because humans... have rocked Fly Agaric
as well. They look like the mushrooms from the Mario franchise, right?
You got a red cap, little white dots.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
A little big up. Uh, we know that indigenous cultures
in Siberia have a deep historical usage of fly agaric
in one way or another. And it's usually not going
to be super recreational, like chewing betel.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Nut or something. It's, it's, it's more ritualistic.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Ritualistic.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Just the perfect word. Uh, We found some interesting speculation,
you guys, that delivering on our earlier references about Rudolph,
the consumption of fly agaric in northern or Scandinavian parts
of the world. It may be part of the reason
(10:35):
why we have all these stories about some wild guy
named Santa Claus. who hangs out with reindeer, who can
inexplicably fly.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Dude!
Speaker 2 (10:45):
It's like a lot of the poultices that supposed witches
would make.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
They're flying ointments.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
They're really just psychedelic substances that would cause them to
think they were flying.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
It would get you off and you're like, okay, all
of a sudden I'm up in the clouds. You're like,
not really. You're still weird with it. No, man, I'm
up in the clouds.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I'm up in the clouds. Who wants a gift? And
that saves the night, right?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So we know that these substances, the active substances in
fly agaric are stuff like ibotenic acid, musimol, which to
me sounds like a made-up pharmaceutical brand, musimol. Feels like
it's got a lot of fine print at the end
of a commercial.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I was in a hotel for the first time in
a while, a couple of days ago, and I just
had the TV on mute. And, you know, you only
see them on TV, these pharmaceutical advertisements with like the idyllic,
you know, frolicking families or whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Just jump in vaguely.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
The names of them, man. This one was like Baltimorea
or something. I mean, it was just, they're just absolutely
made up.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
It's like choosing a car name, you know. we also
have a future episode. You got to hang out with
us on Zarin where we figure out a very small
group of people who make pharmaceutical names in the West.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's got to be some sort of a committee, you know,
they got to, if they focus group, it's right.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
It has to be very similar to any other kind
of branding, right?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It's so small. I'm sure it's like three etymology nerds
going proteo via. Right. You know, that sounds like several words.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Vi-an-stra.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Vi-an-stra, you know, because it's via the anstra.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Hulu.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Wait, that's different.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
No, I was close. I thought you were good. We
know you should not consume fly agaric, right? because it
can lead to nausea, vomiting, muscle twitches at the far end.
It can give your reindeer seizures or comas.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I don't want my reindeers dropping with the comas, no. No.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
You've always said that.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah, it's one of my stances.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
But, you know, these reindeers, they're experienced. They know what
they're doing. They know what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Zara Burnett says, Hummus, okay on a cheese sandwich. Also,
I want my reindeer.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Coma free.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Coma free.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
I still got the bumper stickers to move if you
guys are interested.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Always.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Spread the word.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Can we get a price break?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I'm a guy that collects bumper stickers and never puts
them on anything.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Oh, nice.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
So what I'm hearing is it's Zarin's Coma-Free Reindeer Supplement.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
That's the brand. There we go.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Slap that on the side of a wagon and let's
go to town.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Let's go through Winslow's Soothing Syrup.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, we need this. Max, you got to introduce us
to this next one, man. As Noel was teasing, this
is a perfect medicine show comparison to Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Yeah, I was doing a little researching on this. And,
you know, we have an episode about snake oil in
the past, which is pretty funny because we're going from
reindeer supplements to, which, you know, could be argued as
modern day snake oil.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Well, you got to oil your snakes, man. Nobody wants
dry snakes.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
You don't want a squeaky snake.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
You don't want a squeaky snake. You'll hear it coming
a mile. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Exactly.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
And Ben, if I remember correctly, what we found out
in our snake oil episode was like, you know, in
East Asia, they would harvest water snakes.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
For the fatty oils, correct? Correct. But.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Then they try to do that with rattlesnakes in America
who are quite slender and don't have fatty oils. But so, yeah,
I mean, I think this era of just is we've
spent a lot of time in ridiculous history talking about
this oddly with like ice cream as well. This early
pharmaceutical Coca-Cola rising up era. And that's where I want
(14:52):
to introduce us to the idea of this thing called Mrs.
Winslow's Soothing Syrup, which unlike snake oil, actually had things
in it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Which is kind of the problem. Maybe a few too
many things.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Like are you- Like Vitamita Vegemin. Remember that I Love
Lucy episode? Where she just keeps drinking it and just
getting absolutely plastered?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
One of my favorites.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Shared agreements between those two things.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Now, before we continue, I've got to say Zerod, I
am so impressed and so unsurprised that you instantly knew
the etymology of snake oil.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, like, it's one of those things, like,
you hear it and, you know, I don't know at
what age, I think it was 12 or 13, you
get curious, like, where does this come from? Why do
we eat snake oil? And then I looked it up
and I was like, oh, that's fascinating. And then, you know,
in more recent times, we've kind of referenced it on
Ridiculous Crime a couple of times and then had to, like,
break down the derivation of where this comes from and
why it's called that and why it was bunk.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Well, and to your point, Max, I mean, we really
are living in kind of a new era of snake oil. 100%.
With a lot of the way things are advertised and
things can get around a lot of these FDA approval
guidelines by just being, quote, unquote, not for human consumption.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah, exactly. And we also get the whole, like, medicine
show level with the supplements, but we're just doing it
on our phones now.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
On TV.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Or, yeah, like it used to be on, like, you know,
cable access kind of stuff or, like, a lot of
these religious folks selling buckets of slop and bone broth.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Also, the AI bubble is another bit of snake oil.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
No question about it.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I'll just say it. So, folks, we're an audio podcast,
so please know in your hearts that all four of
us shrugged and unanimously agreed with that last statement.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
No question, no question. So what are we talking about?
What was all the stuff that was in this soothing
syrup that apparently was being fed to infants quite frequently?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, since 1849, right? We've got, you know how, we'll
do a fake commercial. You know how it is. It's 1849,
stuff is crazy. And your kids keep talking. We're dying.
So how do we... How do we shut them up?
How do we shut up those children? Well, according to
(17:08):
Karen Berger, writing over at Pharmacy Times, Charlotte N. Winslow,
a pediatric nurse, created Mrs. Winslow's soothing syrup to... to
shut up children.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
So, you know, soothe fussy babies. Of course.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Oh, sure. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
If we're putting on our marketing hats.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right. Right.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Does your baby cry too much? Try soothing. Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
We'd like to pivot to non-verbal children. So, apparently the
syrup is created in, Max, you can tell us more
about this, by her son-in-law.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Yeah, so as you mentioned, Charlotte Ann Winslow created the formula,
and she was a nurse, but it was actually her son-in-law,
this guy by the name of Jeremiah Curtis, who started
production of the whole thing back in 1849, along with
a partner by the name of Benjamin Perkins. In this
place called Bangor, Maine?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Bangor, Maine? Something like that?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Bangor.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, Bangor, Maine.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Bangor, Maine.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
That's for Stephen King. That's Stephen King country. And you
know what the ultimate sign of good snake oil is?
It's the thing that says.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
It'll do everything. It'll do like 10 different things. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Well, that's a great question, Noel, because now we have
to ask ourselves, what does this patent medicine do?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Do?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Does it do everything?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
It claims it will calm small children, clean their teeth,
freshen their breath, and also relieve constipation while you're at it. Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Four benefits in one. Not one, not two, not three,
but four.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Four. Well, that also feels more legitimate because it's not
saying it's a panacea, right? It's not saying.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
It'll cure everything.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Not a cure-all, not an ultimate fountain of youth type thing.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
But it will take care of both ends of your baby.
That's also true. Snout to tail.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
If your kid's too hairy, you got to find a
different syrup. But for these four problems, we've got it.
And they're very successful because... all of their marketing shows
these very, uh, happy, giddy, non, uh, constipated, non-fussy babies.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Uh, the story of snake oil is also a story
of marketing because to your point, Ben, like all, a
lot of these things were, especially the ones that actually
had no active ingredients.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Um, they were just selling a story, which is marketing.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
They're basically selling like the, uh, the what do you
call it the oh my god it just ran out
of my head what's the the effect when you take
a drug and you thank you the placebo effect so
basically it's just they're selling the placebo effect like this
is going to work because you believe it's going to work.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And guys placebo is hell of a drug is.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It yeah absolutely the psychological effects of belief exactly incredibly
strong we've we've seen studies in that as well and
i we've.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Got to tell you folks here Now that we're being
very fair, hopefully, with the historical context, this is not
a placebo. This is a.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Banger, man.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, yeah. The soothing syrup is super active in a
problematic way. We're talking 65 milligrams of morphine.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Holy crap.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Or morphine. I don't know, guys.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
I'm not cool enough.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
That's how you say it in the South. That's how
we say it. Morphine. Morphine.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Okay. And then it also had booze in there.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Alcohol for the children.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Well, you know what they say. A teaspoon, a spoonful
of morphine helps the medicine go down.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yep. Yep. I feel like we went to the same
day here.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
In the most delightful way.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
These babies were high as hell.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
So, so apparently- One teaspoon full of recommended dosage had
the morphine content equivalent to 20 drops of laudanum. Oh, wow.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
And they said, look, if your baby is six months
old or beyond, right, forget that they're not really forming
personalities yet. Just be cool and make sure that you
don't give them more than two to three drops of
laudanum or more. give them a teaspoonful of this.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I mean, if anyone's seen Deadwood, laudanum is the drug
that a lot of the, or at least in the
first season, the kind of the wife of the dude,
as they call him, who is coming from the big city.
She's addicted to it.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, Alma, right? Yeah, Alma, because she's prescribed it by
a doctor for her vapors or whatever.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah, I got the pain spells. 100%.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
But guys, I know we're joking around about this, but
let's just be real. This is getting infants addicted to opiates.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
This is gnarly stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
And you've looked into the passage of the so-called Wild
West in your previous work, Zarin. Did you run into– now,
of course, I know black cowboys, but did you run
into in your research evidence of how casually or not
(22:21):
casually these kinds of substances were treated?
Speaker 4 (22:24):
It was pretty casual. Largely, the expense was the issue.
So to Noel's point, you would find more middle-class and
upper-class people who have strong laudanum and morphine habits. But
then by the time you get into the era of
The Chinese railroad workers and then San Francisco having a
large Chinatown community, then morphine and opium become very popular
(22:47):
once it is opium. And then you're now, you've basically
made like the crack version of cocaine so people can
go and they can smoke it and get off and
it's not medically controlled as much. And that's when it
really just spreads as opium. But as laudanum, it was
much more likely to be like, you know, the wife
of the sheriff who's sipping on it when he's not home.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And then the opium is when you started seeing it
hit a little bit more mainstream.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Hitting the streets in the form of these kind of taverns.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, opium dens. Totally. Oh, geez.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
So we're saying the costs went down and economy of
scale kicked in?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And availability went way up. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Oh, geez.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
We know that the soothing syrup by Mrs. Winslow was
not problematic in any freaking way. It was super popular
because a lot of people apparently wanted their kids to
shut up. Or, guys, I posit to you that more
than a few thousand people probably bought it to use themselves.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
When you buy a Happy Meal at McDonald's and they're like,
you're 40.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Once you caught on, you know, someone actually took a
little sip of their kid's medicine, like, ooh, I kind
of like that.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
This is Butterwell's heroin syrup.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Good for the baby, good for daddy.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Good for daddy.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
There we go. We know that in an 1868 court summary,
There were reports that 1.5 million bottles of soothing syrup
had been sold.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Surely some babies were killed.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Per year.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Surely babies were killed. They had to. I mean, come on.
This is like the levels you're talking about? The concentration? Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And you know that if one drop doesn't work, you
can give them another drop. And then maybe, you know,
there are some parents that weren't exactly adhering to a
label that already was not very specific.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah, or they want to go out that night. They're like, well,
just double the dosage. Maybe make sure the baby doesn't
cry throughout the night. You know, it doesn't bother the neighbors.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
It's pretty dark, man.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Do we want a babysitter? Because we have this bottle.
We got the syrup. This is super dark, by the way. Like, yes,
we've nailed it because there are no official statistics on
the number of children that died due to exposure to
stuff like this. But we do know roughly, if we're guessing,
(25:24):
that thousands of children died may have been overdosed with it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Oh because it was all self-reporting right right it wouldn't
have been like an investigation it would have been what
they might have called a caught death or you know
oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
Yeah that was actually when i was doing the research
on this part like some that was one of the
more morbid things was a lot of the deaths they
their estimates are like a lot of people just didn't
realize it was the syrup doing especially because it was
a pan medicine They didn't list what was in it.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
And also, a lot of babies and children were dying
at this time, so it wasn't unsurprising to lose a child.
It was like, oh, well, we lost another one, Doc.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I hate how historically accurate that is. We also know
that there were definitely multiple cases of people who got addicted, right?
We know that there are definitely cases of withdrawal cases. Wherein, like,
(26:21):
isn't that, remind me of this, Noel, not to call
you out, which drug is the one that can kill
you with withdrawal?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
That is, well, there are numerous ones, but I mean, actually, weirdly, Xanax,
what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Benzodiazepine withdrawal can be incredibly dangerous and doctors prescribe those for,
you know, just mild anxiety. I do think they're a
little more cautious about it nowadays because it is known
that those withdrawals can be incredibly fatal.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
But that is, I think, what you're thinking of, Ben.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Totally. Also with alcohol, you have to be careful about
how you step down. Going cold turkey can kill you
too with alcohol.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Especially if you're truly physically dependent.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
I don't mean to make light, but it is kind
of ironic that this, you know, opiate medicated drinks are
kind of back in vogue in a way with uh
really yeah well it's good i mean it's they're they're
they're kind of in the culture you know and they're
like in in pop culture like talking about the syrup
or making taking codeine and mixing it with sprite and
all that.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I thought i i thought you meant not for babies
so much i thought you meant like uh G-O, instead
of Gatorade Zero, it's a Gatorade with opium? What could
go wrong?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
No, but there is a subculture of folks that are
highly addicted to drinking opiates.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Starting with side tangentially associated ones like the Robitussin and
using medical, like using drugs that have either, not opium itself,
but things that are very similar in terms of how
the effect is, people now, like purple drink is essentially
very much the same thing.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Right, and I think we're all somewhat of the same
generation where we remember the stories you were referencing, Zarin,
about robo-tripping.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Yeah, robo-tripping, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Which I always thought was a prank.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
It is real.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
There's some active ingredient in it that isn't just alcohol
that can make it.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I can't remember that.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, I can't remember it either. I was trying to
think of what it was.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
It's a specific thing. These drugs we've discussed do exist,
and we got to a very dark place. But we
do want to end on a high note.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
This whole episode's been a high note.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
This whole episode has been a high note.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Zarin, you like animals, right, man?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
I love animals. Big fan. Some people say I like
them more than people, but I don't think that's fair
because I consider people animals. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, right on. Right there with you. Where are we
at on big cats?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Oh, man. I love big cats. Big, big fan of
big cats. Like, I have opinions about, like, what's your
favorite Tigers, Aaron? I'm like, oh, definitely. I'm going to
have to go with Siberians over Bengals. I like Bengals,
but Siberians.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So, yeah, Siberians got it, though, because they can remember
and they hunt down.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yes. The stories with the Russian hunters and stuff where
they wait out and he's like, oh, man, you took
my kill. Now you are my kill.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Well, I'm a big fan of the Liger because they're
bred for their skills and magic.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
We're also we're asking you this for a reason. We
wanted to end on a high note. Zarin, Noel and
I were very excited to learn. that the humble jaguar
loves ayahuasca.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Really? Yeah, this is true.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Out. They're like, this is the stuff, man. I'm about this. Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah. They have found the vine, right? The one that
contains DMT that will be used in ritualistic, shamanistic human experiences.
They kind of treat it like catnip.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Microdosing them, basically.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, they chew on the vines and the leaves, and
then they roll around in it. And then apparently for
several hours after, they are super cool.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Less likely to eat your face.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, that is a concern. Those are some vicious big
cats and strong as hell.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, and they can get in the trees.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Yeah, they'll take you with them right up into the trees.
They're like, come on.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
So shout out to all the DMT Jaguars in the crowd.
Dolphins get high off puffer fish.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Can you tell us a little bit about that or
what you know about it?
Speaker 4 (30:41):
From what I understand, they just agitate the puffer fish
that they do their puffering and then they get high
off of the active ingredients, which is essentially, once again,
a toxin.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
It's a venom, right?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, it's a venom. So they figure out how to
get the right dosage. So they're kind of micro dosing
puffer fish toxin and then they get off and then
they go and like play with their buddies and go
rub themselves on rocks. So it's like a thing for them. Heard. Same.
Who are we to judge? Isn't that funny, though?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I mean, the same kind of experimentation that humans have
done for centuries, whether it be culinarily, like who ate
the first oyster?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
That thing doesn't look like a good idea to you.
I mean, it happens in the animal kingdom.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
You know, along a long enough timeline, we're kind of
technically part of the animal kingdom.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Of course. Not that much different than our animal kingdom.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Shout out, bloodhound gang.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
It's crazy it took all of us so long to
get to it.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah. That's true. Man, I think we put a pin
in this one, guys.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
This is definitely an ongoing series, and I think we
should have Zarin back for another one. We got a
little bit of tangents and trivia here that we're going
to save because we're going on a journey, Ben and
Max and I, so we need to buffer up a
little bit. So we're going to do sort of a
leftovers episode in the coming weeks while we're.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
On our cruise. I love leftovers, so if you want
to have me back, I'll.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Come roll through. Bro, are you serious?
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, for real. Please, dude.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Also, Zarin, as we're wrapping up, just backstage, folks— This
is a whole week with Zarin Burnett, the creator of
not only Black Cowboys, the creator of very special episodes,
of course, the creator of Ridiculous Crime, along with Elizabeth
Dutton and Who we're also.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Going to have on in the very near future, as
well as the aforementioned game show format that we're going
to do before the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Which Zarin invented.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yeah, we got some fun planned for y'all.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Zarin invented the game show.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
That's wild. Little fun facts. History of sitting.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
On a plane, everyone was smoking, and he's like, what
if we have game shows?
Speaker 5 (32:32):
And reindeer supplements, but coma free.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Love it.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
That's back when reindeer could fly on planes as well
before they got the sleighs. Well, Zarin, man, thank you
so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Bro, where can people go to learn more about your work?
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Best place is go listen to Ridiculous Crime with me
and Elizabeth Dutton. It's a really fun, fantastic show. And
thank you guys for giving us that platform to have
fun with our fans and crowds.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Recently listed as one of, I think it was Entertainment
Weekly's top crime podcast.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Yes, top 30 best true crime podcasts of all time.
We were really stoked on that. 99% murder free. Yes, 100% ridiculous.
So go check it out. And then obviously very special episodes.
We do magazine style stories where... They're like little mini movies,
and I highly recommend that. And as you pointed out,
there's always Black Cowboys. If you'd like to hear about
the history of the West you don't normally get to
(33:27):
learn about, there's plenty of stories, and they're much similar
to very special episodes where they're like little mini movies.
But in this case, they're like little mini Westerns.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Big, big thanks to our super producer, Max Soothing Syrup Williams. Big,
big thanks to A.J. Bahamas Jacobs, a.k.a. The Puzzler, that
you would love to hang out with, Zarek.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
What a cool guy.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Jonathan Strickland, the Quister, Christopher Haciotis, Anita Jeff Goods here
in spirit. Ben, thank you for whipping this list together
in a pinch, man. I know that we were under
the gun and it really, really worked out beautifully. And
I'm excited to add to it and continue on with
this weird stuff people got high to series on Ridiculous History.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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