April 23, 2026 • 43 mins
Live from the beautiful Baha Mar resort, Ben, Noel, Max and returning guest Matt dive into popular misconceptions about pirates. First, piracy was by no means restricted to the Caribbean. Second, not all successful pirates were dudes. In fact, as the guys discover in the second-part of this two-part series, history's wealthiest pirate was a Chinese woman named Zheng Yi Sao, or Chin Shih. As they arrive closer to the modern day, the guys discover another notorious Chinese pirate smack-dab in the middle of the Sino-Japanese war: a double, triple, maybe even quadruple maritime bandit known as Huang “Two Guns” Bamei.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. That's our super producer, mister MAXI
Freight Train Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hello, I'm still in the same Amaziel.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yes, they call me Ben Bullen for tax purposes here
in BaHaB? Is this a legal inquiry? The joke that
never gets old? That is mister Noel Brown. We are
joined again with our special returning guest, one of our
closest friends brother in podcast arms, the one and only
mister Matt twohands, Frederick.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Matt the taxman.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Frederick, my ex accidentally claimed my son as a dependent
this year. She's not supposed to this year, this past year.
So I tried to send in my taxes and guess
what they got sent back? So no, currently an extension period. Boys, Okay,
had to pay my taxes already because that's what they
make you do, my estimated amount. But now I've got
(01:22):
to send in all my papers.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I've always let the X claim the kid. That's just
that I don't know. I guess I'm just nice like that.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Also, it's so weird to think about how the irs
works in the United States, where they know how much
money you're supposed to pay, but you have to do
It's like you're in a toxic relationship where they're like, oh,
you should guess why, guess what it is? Can you
guess why I'm angry and you do it wrong?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
It's not gonna correct you, Like no, no, no, no, no,
you gave us too much money or you're asking them
too little back. No, that can correct you. It's only
if we meet the error in their way that's gonna
be you know.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, just it's ridiculous. And taxation and big government have
always been a thorn in the sides the average person,
so much so that it's driven some people in the
past two acts of piracy.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Guys. A whole group of like five people just walked
past where we are and we'll talk about where we are.
They all had entire pineapples filled with what looked like
alcoholic beverages.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Wait's was an alcohol because in our usual podcast, in
our usual podcast studio, that would be very abnormal. Yes,
but here it's weird that we don't have those big
hollow pineapple booze drinks because we are here again in
Baja Mar beautiful resort. We've been here for a couple
(02:36):
of days. What are some of your favorite things you
guys have done so far.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, I'm pleased to announce I did not get molested
by a flamingo, but I was forced to hold space
with them by our dear friend Matt Frederick. And I'm
glad I did. I'm glad I did.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
You were forced?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, Matt really twisted my arm about it.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
But while I was like, no, buddy, you can hide
behind me. That's all good. The flamingos. The best thing,
I would say was flamingos getting all up and personal
and weird on my leg hair.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
The worst thing was stepping on a bee. I did
step on a bee, but thankfully I'm not allergic.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
To be Was it a tropical bee?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I don't know you were there.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, they looked like a regular bee.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It was lookally a bee.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Nothing right home about them.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Well, I'm looking at a picture of the beautiful Baha
Mar right behind us where we're recording, and.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Man, you look at the pictures look out the window, man.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
We well, because I can see the entirety of it
from the sea, and it's gorgeous and the scale here.
It's hard to even really understand how many different buildings
and restaurants. And don't forget the casino.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Where I made so much money and my girlfriend took
all of it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, that's what they call a humble brag.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
There's nothing humble about it. Man, she got me.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Am I at three steaks? You and already or am
I too? Have they've all been delicious?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yeah? Man, I think you're up there.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So Matt's up on steak, I'm down on money. Bends
up on money and maybe even on steak.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I've been to the same restaurants so many times they
now know me. There's a dular. This morning they came
out of Max's way.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, at the swimming pig, which we can hang it
out at him.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Very conditioned, very condition friendly.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Have we all been watching snl uk?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I haven't seen the latest one.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I saw that they did a black snape riff.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Okay, okay. They made a song I felt very much
like the Lonely Island songs back in the day, and
it was all about British pubs in vacation. And when
I saw I saw, I was like, what is the
swimming pig thing? Max keeps talking about went By. I went,
oh my god, this is that song.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
This is that song?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
It is?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It is a British theme, Paba and the Food. So
what do you say, guys, let's get into it. Everybody
check out our earlier episode on some pirates who may
not be familiar with and tune in because in port two,
(04:56):
we're moving outward across the world, literally around the world.
We're not talking about the Caribbean. We are talking about
the Far East. Guys. Did you know the world's wealthiest,
most successful pirate in all of human history is a
Chinese woman known as Chin Shee No.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I mean, I saw the name pop up in my
research and I was very unfamiliar. And I'm so glad
that you picked this one band, because you're really great
at the Chinese pronunciations.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
I think the only reason I know who she is
is I believe she is a great person. You can
get in Civilization six. She's a great admiral.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Oh, there's also a character based on her in the
Pirates of Caribbean of the Caribbean franchise. Really yeah, based
on a real person. Kind of loosely, I'm just gonna say,
Pirates the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
What the Karen Knightley character.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, it's actually Johnny Depp's character. You have to think
about the subtext.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Amazing just for a chameleon that Johnny Depp.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Sure he is actually a chamelion.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Can you spell her names for anybody that wants to
look it up right now?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
The street name is chin Chese, so that would be
c h i n shih. We'll see why that's a nickname.
She's also known as more formally as jin ysau so
z h n g space y I space Sao. She
did not start off as a pirate. Well, I guess
(06:24):
there are very few people who are born as pirate. Like,
can you imagine your kid is born and the doctor says, now,
you've got a healthy baby, boy, but there is a
condition we want to tell you about. And the kid
already has an eye patch and like a peg leg
and a bird.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
That's it all.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
You can live a full life of piracy. You'll just
have to get them a boat a certain medical condition. So, okay.
This person comes to us in the beginning of the
eighteenth century, and at first she is what we would
diplomatically describe as a sex worker in a floating brothel, weird,
(07:00):
but it's what it sounds like. Like. The last time
we were over in Thailand or the first time we're
in Thailand, we saw floating markets, which are essentially communities
and cities linked by pretty narrow waterways. Oh, you can
buy a house there too.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Heck yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Did did we all watch the show Firefly?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, the Space Pirates show.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Yes, it reminds me of the character you get interest
introduced to in the first episode, the pilot, where I
think they refer to her as a diplomat maybe, but
she is on a space ship in all for all
intentsive purposes functions like a brothel essentially, but also as
diplomatic relations in some way.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
But anyone, last name, but.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Now different.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well, we all know the person, and yes, that like
a space cort is on. Yes, yes, so this this person,
Jiang Yisao, is not that different. She is working in
the city of Canton in this floating brothel, and she
runs into a guy named Chang Ii or Chang the First.
He is already a pirate. He's a big deal pirate.
(08:12):
He's been terrorizing the South China seed during the Qing dynasty.
And this is a bizarre rom come bizarre romance. So
Chang hears about this lady right here, she's good in bed.
We also hear she's great in business, and so yeah, right,
double threat. So he seeks her out at this floating
(08:33):
market and he says, oh crap, you're you're also hot
and you're good at business. Oh and to your point, Matt,
he finds out that she is using the secrets she
learns sleeping with clients to blackmail them, to get money
from them. They're wealthy, they're politically kills oldest time tale,
(08:53):
as old as time song, as old as rhyme.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
And that was certainly a power move that women had
in the days where you get close to powerful men,
you have them in compromising situations, you were able to
get dirt. Yeah, you can then use to your benefits
patriarchical side.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
I wonder if they like compiled a bunch of files
or something and then blockaded maybe another country to prevent
those files from coming out or something.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Or maybe they got dirt on people before they became
part of an administration they weren't qualified for.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Oh interesting, that feels light. I don't know, it feels familiar.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Max, Please less palpably. Everything is politics. Everything is history,
shout out dead press.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
But okay, I really wish that my facial expression could
have been caught right looked at it.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I was like, oh my god, I can hit you
all right now. I'm sorry, work, I can't.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I know.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
This is ridiculous history.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
No, no, it's also all me. Okay, you guys play nice.
This is a rom com kind of thing. Shen Y
is about twenty six years old. It's eighteen oh one
when this guy comes and says, I want to marry
you because you're hot and good at business. How old
she's twenty six?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Okay, okay, okay, So nothing epsteiny about it.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Well, no, I just mean that's so in my mind,
that's so young to already be so established and understand
a business so well, and then to be so successful
at it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
That's all no, I hear you, man. And unfortunately the
implication is that she probably started early. So this guy
comes here, has a very weird marriage proposal, and he
finds out the hard way that yeah, she is that
good at business because she says, okay, Chang, I'll marry
you if you give me equal control of all of
(10:46):
your ships. And he had already United multiple rival Chinese
pirate gangs. So he was running an empire. So it's
kind of like if you went to and it's a
good example, I guess for the boats Richard Branson. If
someone went to marry Richard Branson and they said, I'll
do it, but you have to give me all like
all of your planes.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I'm gonna need a prenup in all your boats.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And so Chang said yes, and so I just went out.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
That makes him a really dangerous person to the established
governments that are operating out there. Right. Yes, we know,
folks like Fred Hampton like how dangerous it is when
there are disparate or disconnected groups who kind of want
the same thing or fight for the same thing. Yes,
I am when they Yes, when somebody or the organizations,
(11:37):
you know, when somebody can come together, can bring people
together like that, that is very dangerous to the establishment.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And how about this, because I know we've got to
be fair, how about instead of be saying gangs, we
say organizations some of which were gangs.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yes, yes, no, no, you're right, you're right. That is
essentially how it's some were.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Just like let's give lunch the school kids, right, it's
a wide spectrum and it takes a real diplomat to
unite those stakeholders. And at first everything is working out
because Shanghi's how is all about this? She says, Okay,
I'm tired of this floating market. I'll help run the
new family business. In six years into their marriage, her
(12:21):
husband passes away. He's only forty two. We don't know
much about how he passed away, Like we don't know
if he was killed by the tsunami at sea, if
he was poisoned, maybe by his wife. We just don't
have a lot of information.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
But I'm really surprised by that. Just I feel like
that guy would have gone out in some epic battles.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Ladies of Glory.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Well yeah, because again like the government somewhere would have
said this guy can't stay.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, like the ching dinasty devil. I didn't like him,
so why didn't they get him first? But regardless of
what happens, this leaves the up and coming pirate queen
in a very precarious position because there's a confusion based
patriarchical society. And this is where she starts to earn
(13:05):
her nickname that we mentioned, ching shit. It translates to
Chang's widow. So that's a morbid nickname. Yeah, that's where
you're you're every time someone meets you casually, they're reminding
you that your husband is dead. Yeah, they're like, oh,
you're the window lady.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well that is interesting though, because you do often hear
those kind of dark nicknames associated with women and crime,
usually something like like the.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Black widow or the like you know what I mean,
or competitive eating.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yes, Sonya Thomas, I.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Always played that up. I can't imagine. I don't know,
there's probably something really scary about that. I feel like
with some of the most successful pirteers. I'm thinking about
Black beerd in particular, some of the folks who had
the bigger ships and the bigger beers. Well, if you
had a crew and you looked out and you saw
(13:57):
a particular flag or you know, you you saw a
ship that you, oh, I know that's associated with the widow,
Like that would be a form of terror that that
strikes way before the ship gets anywhere near your ships.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, they had their own version of Jolly Roger, right, Yeah,
that kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Yeah, you know, it's one of these things too where
it's like maybe I don't even want to fight. Maybe
it's just surrender because we don't want to get Charles
vained right now?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Well, if it's Charles Vain, weavers in Firefly or Serenity, Like, okay, guys,
I think maybe.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
Say Firefly, we don't talk about sriatedy. They had to
end the story quickly.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I get it.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
But it's nowhere as good as Firefly, And like, let's
be Frank Harris's get off on a tangent. Sure, in
a world of remakes that are terrible and no one wants,
how have we never got on a season two a Firefly?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Wait, you guys, do.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Work that might be incredible.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It might be the next flight to Dragons.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
You know, people talk about they want to clear up
scure movie. I want to clear up secure anime. Okay,
the excellent, excellent, after the near Tamana. Yeah, I want
to clear up scarean.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
You're gonna want to anime it this one as well, guys.
I love that we're mentioning black Beard because after her
husband dies and she gets this grulish nickname, ching Shih
starts commanding over eighteen hundred pirate ships. What an estimated
(15:27):
eighty thousand pirates for comparison to Blackbeard, who is also
very successful pirate. He commanded four ships and three hundred pirates.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Yeah, that's inconceivable.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
It's definitely that's navy at that point. Yeah, very much.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
So maybe at that point that's now.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Oh my god, that's most of the ocean. There's one
if there's at least one of those ships out there
just checking things out.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, and again, a lot of these are going to
be sloops, right, They're gonna be smaller, but they've got
some big boys in there. And if you look at
authors like Laura Suk Duncomb, the author of Pirate Women,
The Princesses, Prostitutes and Privateers who Ruled the Seven Seas,
you will see that a lot of a lot of
historians called Ching Shi the greatest pirate who ever lived,
(16:16):
because she pirated longer than most people in a career
that has, you know, drop off rate, drop off drop
off rate, she makes more money, h she ultimately will
get to this. She ultimately gets away from the game
just fine, which is something that is like winning the
lottery thrice. So how did she in a society that
(16:40):
really just dumps on women, how did she succeed in
what's already a male dominated industry. She had a really
strict code of laws. We're talking earlier about the we're
talking earlier about the dark side of piracy in episode one, right,
all the horrific sexual abuse and assaults that would occur.
(17:01):
She had special laws about this. She said, any pirate
who is caught giving his own orders or disobeying the
orders of a superior has to be beheaded on the spot.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Wow, which is this is.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Not a three strikes kind of hr policy. And if
they had female captives and a pirate assaulted one of
those female captives under any circumstances, that pirate is also
put to death. If the sex between the two is consensual,
then they are both put to death. Wow, captives do
(17:37):
I'm not saying she was a nice lady.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Well, that's really interesting. I I was reading a bit
before we came in here today about relationships amongst pirates
and how complicated it could be, but also how normal
it could be, where if you usually you would have
a at least in what I was reading about Caribbean pirates,
(17:59):
you would have a often a man who goes out
on a ship as a part of a crew who
would have a wife and perhaps many children back somewhere
wherever he was, and just the.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Man to bring up Assassin's created a good well, no.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I remember, I remember, and your boat wife well.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
But then but then on the boat it was very
difficult at least what again, Like I don't only know
what I've read thus far, but it seemed like it
was very difficult to keep women on ships like that
because of that chaos factor of having a bunch of
men at sea on a ship together, you know, and
and there's just there were often horrific things that occurred.
(18:38):
Having a punishment system set up for that that is
that strict, especially if it's a consenting perhaps even couple
or two people that are attempting to become a couple
while they're at sea. And I wonder why that was
so frowned upon.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I think it was her reacting to the norm. Yeah,
that shows us how bad the problem was to be
enacted with that severity. It's kind of like if you
ever see a weird sign, like you walk into a
gas station and you see a sign that says, you know,
no shirt, no shoes, no drunk horses, then you know
that something happened with a horse at some point, and
(19:17):
probably often enough that they eventually they threw up their
hands and they said, we got to put it on
the sign.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Guys.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
You know, you don't see those anymore. And I really wish.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I wish there were. We wish that there was less
of a sobriety movement among horses.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Yeah, I mean, nobody wants drunk horses around.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Uh. There's also Yeah, this was called the Red Flag.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
The fleet.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
We're talking about three years, a very short career of
piracy on the high seas. And during this time, Ching
Sheep beefs with everybody. She fights the Qing dynasty government,
so she fights the government of China, beats them. She
fights the Portuguese Navy, beats them. She fights the East
India Company beats them.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Whoa there.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
They all try to, you know, smash down like you said,
Max and Navy, and they don't. They're not able to
pull it off. But the Chinese government, just like the
colonial governments in the Caribbean, eventually they throw up their
hands and they just say, hey, lady, look this is nuts.
We will forgive everything. We'll give you amnesty if you
(20:26):
just stop pirating all over us like you're piloting all
over our butts and our faces. We just can't take it.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
That's like the blackjack tables right there.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Leave it on the table.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
No left This caught on the BJ tape.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
I'm sorry, I was trying to be shortened get out
an emergency message. Do we know roughly where she and
her naval forces are operating? Is it what we would
consider the South China see in that area of the Pacific,
or like, I just don't. I'm trying to imagine how
much ground or water you could cover with that many ships.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Right, this is coastal. I think it was up and
down that kind of eastern coast of the area. And
that also meant that it was hard to catch her
maybe to figure out where she was at all these ships, right.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
I wonder if she had We talked last episode about
the Bahamas and Nassau in particular in a certain time
during piracy where Nassau was kind of the headquarters and
the place to go. I wonder if, like, if there
was a place like that in an island somewhere, an
island chain.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Oh, I'm sure there are lots of Heidi holes there too,
especially when you get when you around the island areas
and when you get to places that were adjacent to
trade routes, like if they went I don't know if
they went as far south as the Strait of Malacca,
but that would have been a huge money maker. And
so they couldn't beat her. They couldn't beat her. They
(22:02):
offered her amnesty and she accepted, and she went into
retirement with all her treasure and was never real We
don't really know what she did afterwards. She just flipped
the switch, lived a quiet life. She died at the
age of sixty nine in eighteen forty four, which is
(22:23):
so unusual for that time and for a pirate. It
was like the best.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
Try a full life is a pirate is not something
that happens, like I can't think of any pirate that
lives longer than the end of forty which is usually
in the story.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And maybe him pirate in thirty A.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
In that case, Oh, there was some pirate I was
reading about. No, I think he was one of the
guys you were potentially going to talk about John.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yes, John Avery or I think Henry John Avery.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Went by a bunch of ultimately Avery and he was
another one of these people that he pulled off some
insane attack where he made the equivalent of several hundred
million dollar on this one attack on several ships and
then just did the retirement thing and just kind of
checked out and got out of there. He apparently died
(23:08):
like a year later. Because but but you know, but
just this concept that you could actually hit the jackpot. Yeah,
you could hit the jackpot and then be done and
then live for that long with whatever that wealth brings you.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Well to jump in here.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
I mean, this is kind of similar to like like
what we're talking about with Charles Vain about how it
wasn't really like obviously the money and stuff was important,
but like there was more going on there. I do
feel like when we think about pirates, we obviously think
about like the nasthaal pirates, there was a lot more
going on there, you know, free themselves from the privateer.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Life, the conscription stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Maybe it is more common than in other examples where
you know, it is more like in your case, like
almost a heist. I'm pulling a heist, you know, and
this one is like, you know, she inherited an empire
and she's like, you.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Know what, I'm going to retire? Why not?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
You know, I don't think these guys in Nassau had
a retirement plan. I think there was. We're thinking right
now a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
We're just desperate to escape slavery.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yes, oh man, that's such an important factor. When she retired,
did that empire continue on without her?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah? Yeah, But it's similar to It's similar to how
the Mongol Empire began to splinter after the death of
Jengus Khan. So when they didn't have that leader and
other people were getting offered amnesty as well, right, they
were trying to avoid the long brutal arm of the law.
(24:34):
This is this is what Max, I think you would
like to see an anime of right of Chang's widow
on the high Seas. For now, you're going to have
to settle for the powerful mistress Ching one of the
nine Pirate lords and the Pirates of the Caribbean. I mean,
we want to keep going. We got one more female
Chinese pirate. This is much more recent too. Yeah, okay,
(24:58):
So nicknames are everybody loves a cool nickname. I'm addicted
to nicknames. Uh. One of the favorites we found our
research for this series is Huang two Guns Bomb.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
That's nickname both.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Two guns two guns or mistress two guns or the
two gun Empress.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Are we talking like blunderbuss or are we talking.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
This is way more recent? The CIA is involved in this.
Oh wow, Okay. She is born to a peasant family
near Shanghai, and she is a criminal from the jump.
You know, like we said, babies can't be born pirates,
but if babies can be born criminals, this is kind
(25:45):
of our our culprit or, this is our suspect. She
became the leader of a local gang that was already
raiding coastal areas called Xiangshu and Shixiang, and she got
captured by the police. She was all to escape execution.
But this is occurring during the outbreak of what we
call the Second Sino Japanese War, which also doesn't get
(26:08):
talked about too often in a lot of textbooks, at
least here in the States. I have no idea of
nineteen thirty seven to nineteen forty five. So this is
happening during World War two. Whoa longer than World War two? Yeah,
that's how recent it is. So because of this war,
she gets an opportunity to expand the brand. She says, look,
(26:31):
I'm a bandit. I'm a pirate, I'm a criminal. But
the nationalist military is recruiting people just like me because
we're good at violence. So imagine if the US Army
at some point said, hey, instead of just conscripting kids
out of high school, check out the prisons. That's kind
(26:53):
of all.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
That happens inmates run the asylum. Anybody killer, Mike.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, exactly. We got to get over to Bankhead Seafood.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
You guys, I don't know about Bankhead.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
See he co owns with t I. Okay, so together
we figured it out. He got their guys as we
did it. Yeah, let's we'll just we'll hit up bike
and go hang out with them. I think at the seafood.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Spot Killer, t I Pain. That's the way to do it.
So it's like all three.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
There we go. Yes, it took me a second. Now
she is commanding people qualify as troops, and they are
still doing all their other stuff. They're smuggling, they're doing piracy,
(27:46):
they're doing illegal trade. And Huong and her followers are
recruited by the military to fight against the Japanese invasion.
But then she becomes a propaganda gold mine. They as
they're like Okay, so how do we how do we
tell the public that we just are hiring a bunch
of criminals. Yeah, and they say, well, we got a rebrand,
(28:10):
we got to pivot, we got to get some good
pr in here, and we are going to make a
new personality. Now, we're not going to talk about her past.
She is a patriotic woman, right, We're going to treat
her like a what's that same we used to have.
This guy's a shark, but he's our shark. They were like,
(28:32):
Quong is.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Talking about connor Burn.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
He's our shark. But as we know, he has not
yet been convicted of piracy. Do you want to keep that?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I love it?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Okay, we'll keep the part where I say do we
want to keep that?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
As well?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
The tension in the room rose, But yeah, no pirates
in our gig so far. Anyway, the Nationalist government, as
we know, in this nationalist Communist war, they retreated to
ty wand and then Wong gets into the secret service
and does guria warfare against the communist forces that are
(29:10):
winning the battle. Right, and so, in an effort to
appease this shark, the nationalist authorities give Wong land. They
give her a garment factory. They give her own factory,
and they give her a bunch of money, and they
do everything they can to hander all these things. Other
criminals are not getting this stuff, by the way, at all.
(29:31):
They're just not getting murdered. The reason, guys, that they're
kissing her butt so much is because if they don't,
they're certain that she is going to start collaborating with
the Central Intelligence Agency, who's already been kind of reaching
out to them, and be like, hey, you're pretty good
at a violence. You don't like communists, we should hang out.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Geez hi. I know we're just at a grocery store,
but I'm with the CIA exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, I like your garment factory. You know, I'm a
I factor in some things myself.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Yeah, it seems like a really dangerous person that if
you could turn them, that would be a very dangerous
person to just be operating. And maybe the concept is
just I was gonna say, distract. We know, time is
the most valuable resource, right If she's got a garment
factory to run and a bunch of other stuff to manage, well,
(30:28):
then you're no longer you know, thinking so much on
the daily about all the you know, acts of kind
of warfare that you're going to do for a government
contract or something.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Kind of like when you have a really energetic kid
and you think I need to get this one addicted
to animal crossing.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Oh god, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Everybody help you.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
There is Max is plugged in. So the government also
promotes Slong as almost like a Rosie the Riveter figure
while they're doing this, So they're giving her fame as well,
and they're saying, look, not only can women participate in
war zone work, but they can do that on top
of managing the household. And then people start questioning the narratives.
(31:09):
So these films come out and these various research pieces
come out that say, oh, oh snap, you guys, this
thing is a pirate, like a real pirate, Like.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
This is not like some like person who would normally
be made up as like oh this patriotic thing, like, no,
she's a Pirates are generally not that up. Yeah, and
moral and popular.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
And so then there was a narrative war.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
They have their they have a screup or two. It's
just there are a few. There's some honor among thieves.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Well, that's what we're talking about earlier, because there is
a certain pirate code.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yes, yes, that that may vary depending on the ship, right.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
And don't don't leave your phone on the BJ table.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
And keep your cutlass clean.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yes, really, especially especially at the BJ table.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
NAC get ready for it. We're being serious here. No,
there were very specific rules that governed life aboard these ships,
and some of them had to do with keeping your
your outfits and your your weapons tight.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Oh wow, Oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Personal hygiene was very important on ships. I know, we're
gonna off on tangent here about you know, if you're
stuck on the ship for a long time. There's many
stories I came across about mutinies because the ships think
so bad, or the captains things disease.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
You know, one person gets something that's transmissible by air,
then everybody screwed.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Important question, guys, what's the opposite of scurvy? When you
have too much vitamin C?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
You have too much vitamin Uh we're all looking at you. Yeah, okay, fine, yeah,
it's scrivy questions.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
But last question? Yeah, was the cutlass and Alton Brown
multi tool?
Speaker 3 (32:46):
And was it a cutlass Supreme but like a moltis
with olives.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yeah, just no, but really could you because you would
use your cutlets for the obvious pirrating reasons, right, But
it's also a very shark oh yeah, knife potentially.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
And rigging and so on.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Maybe or let's say you catch a bunch of fish.
Maybe there's some big old fish. I got a cutlass,
of course, I'm just wondering.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Also, it's just referred to as a vitancy overdose. You
can't digest the excess.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Water soluble mm hmm. So it's not exactly toxic, but
it could lead to I believe some digestion.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Is floating diarrhea of the normal A lot man.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Max with the facts.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I just noticed Nole's hat and it is fantastic in
this environment, and it's got lots of flowers on it
is says something about Marcus.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
It's Marcus, the restaurant we went to last night. Actually,
Brandy Ben's a significant other, suggested that I get this hat.
Didn't even notice they were selling them, doubled back, bought
the hat, gotten many compliments on it.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Since almost as cool as Ben's ATL hat.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
That Atl and the ups and Matt I want to
count your beautiful hat, which is not a hat, it's
just your luscious.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Lots and those sweet, sweet white milky for a compliment,
Max your shirt, thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Why don't you describe your shirt?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
It is a white cat and the tarot cards, saying
the white cat tarot card.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
There it is.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Can I just let down on Matt's pale, white milky thighs?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Really?
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Oh, we're going there.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
He's been there for the second time around. Back to
the grotto, we shall go.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Oh yes, back to the grotto.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
So this is weird because it's pirracy, much more recent
than we think about when you think about pirates, right,
and we know that this lady was definitely a consummate
pirate because she was switching whenever she's joined in different forces.
Was whatever worked for her, But also she became too
valuable to these different rival factions for anyone. She just
(35:10):
straight up killer because they were thinking, well, what if
we can turn her because we know this lady's a turnstile.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
I see what you mean. That would be the most
dangerous person. And I do wonder why nobody decided, hey,
we have to take this person out because there is
a potential that even if we think she's working with us,
she's not.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah. And plus the fact that she's becoming a national figure,
even if controversial. Everybody was recognizing Rosie the Riveter during
the wartime in the US. People are recognizing her, and
she's become a heroic figure in Chinese history, often misportrayed, misremembered.
You'll see all these legends about her that are like
similar to George Washington, legends about how good she is
(35:51):
at firearms. They called her two guns is what it
translates to, because she was known for, at least according
to the propaganda and survivor's tales, she was known for
jumping into ships or into fights with two guns and
just pop popping off Renalds like Frank Reynolds. Yeah, well
(36:12):
he's usually you know, it's weird to me that he
usually just has one guy, you know. Anyway, then she
started blasting.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
But then yeah, and so we know, just off, I
see him.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Sorry, I love it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I love Danny And shout out to everybody who uh
restarted the rumhm joke. I posted a picture of us
visiting Flamingo's rumhands.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Simpsons, is that always funny?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yeah, you closed a picture of us here. Yeah, yeah, okay,
I need to sorry.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Oh my girlfriend made me do it, but promotion beforehand,
I was not ault.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
I told him I'm welcome to do it, but he
cannot tag my Instagram because no one's allowed to have
my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Oh it's just for tattoos.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
That's for tattoos.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Is afoot. And so we know that people have still
gone back to Madam two Guns over and over to
embellish her story to try to figure out what the
truth of it is. We know there are there's plenty
of documentation of her violence and fighting Japanese forces, but
we still don't know exactly how she pulled all of
this off because they were they had military training, and
(37:23):
her guys were just you know, criminals.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Weird. Yeah, and then it couldn't be a school of
the America's situation that's on the other side of the world.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I know, man, there's there's so much more to get
to about that character. But I think one of the
most important parts of this here is that she literally
became multiple things across her life that were in direct
opposition to one another, and then she became I don't
know if we should call her a national hero but
(37:57):
I don't know. You know, America has its own problems
with its national heroes. She ultimately does turn down the
offer from the CIA because they do go after a
hard and then.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
It wouldn't hold on. She even if she accepted the
offer from the CIA, she would have officially turned down
the offer from the CIA.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Ding ding ding, Well done, Matt. And she after she
turned down that offer, she started to shift away from
piracy or what they were calling military operator or maritime operations. Uh.
And she becomes more active in the socialist government. She
was going to She did get in trouble a couple
(38:35):
of times because she kept trying to get Colonel Kurtz
about stuff and planning her own unsanctioned operations. You know,
you just get a taste for it, Okay, so maybe
he got it.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
I feel like they got her, dude. If she if
she started embedding herself more into the government, getting more
involved in the socialist government, and then she's really paranoid
about stuff all of a sudden, come on.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
And then she also started acting later in life, yea,
in propagation films. Yeah, and in Taiwan. She ultimately dies
on May fourth, nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
So piracy is much closer than it looks in the
rear view mirror. And when she dies, the legend waxes
and waynes. But she's still remembered as a legendary pirate leader,
and depending on how the geopolitical winds blow in that
part of the world, they still bring her out as
(39:38):
a propaganda tool every now and then, and this is
one of those times. Is another moment.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Do you know if she has a like a family,
a legacy and that kind of thing that continues on
I would be interested in.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah. Yeah, they have surviving descendants. Her grandson is a
guy named Shay Wick like John Wick. Yeah, and he
went to a ceremony in Shanghai as recently on twenty fourteen, Wow,
the anniversary the Nanjing massacre. So the history repeats, Man,
(40:13):
still so baffling. We hope it's We hope it's interesting
to all our fellow ridiculous historians to learn that, despite
the rampant misogyny of a lot of piracy, the world's
best pirate was a woman, and some of the world's
most recent pirates probably worked for the CIA.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Wow, I'm not going to look at the ocean the
same After we leave this incredible studio.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Man, we are it. Seriously, We're not blowing rainbows, folks.
This is a great spot, and this is a very
nice studio, very.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Cool, Our lovely flamingo guides walked by just a man. Yes,
come on the podcast.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Yes, we all hung out flamingos and they smell very nice.
Do not think that was the thing I was gonna
find out.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I know it was part of the tour. The smelling.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Let's clarify though, there is a smell to flamment inclosures.
If you've been to a zoo, yeah, it is not
the flamingo that you are smelling with that smell. When
you go up to a flamingo as we did and
you smell their feathers, they smell.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Incredible fresh and clean. Yeah, very fresh.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
And we can't thank you enough for tuning in, folks.
We can't thank the good people at Baja More enough
for having us, but we'll try. Thank you so much,
Baja Seriously, nice one, thank you, nice, seriously, cheers.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Me, thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Got just say one thing I love about this place,
and I haven't been too many I haven't been to
many resorts of this size, and just how opulent and incredibly.
There's just so much cool stuff here. What they do
with water here on this resort is awesome. We receive
these metal bottles that I'm looking I'm looking around at
(41:52):
people walking around land. Everybody seems to have them. And
instead of giving everybody bottled water in places or having
that sailing a bunch of places, you just go and
you refill your metal water bottle.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, like such a great idea.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah. The water features also, speaking of water, are amazing.
There's fire on the water and also the grotto and
also the grotto. We've got We've got so much more
to get to, folks. We are going to have more
pirate stories in the future. We're gonna farm them out
because I think twenty twenty six is going to be
a pirate phase for us. Maybe, yeah or maybe. Thank
(42:28):
you so much to our super producer mister Max Williams,
Thanks to Alex Williams who composed this bang in track.
And thanks very much to our returning guest mister Matt Frederick. Matt,
you got to come back on the show.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I thank you as well. Matt.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I'll pay you well, you know kind of.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Oh and who else.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Do we need to if you don't come back. I'll
hit you with me cutless, no slice, slice slice, Oh gosh,
who else? Chris Frosciotis needs Jeff Coats here in spirit,
Jonathan Strickland quist or A J. Bahamas Jacobs, Yeah, the Puzzler,
he might be here. I'm actually here in a hammock.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
A big thanks to doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance, the
rude Dudes a ridiculous crime. If you dig us, you
will love them and no thanks to you.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Hey, thanks to you as well. Buddy. We'll see you
next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. That's our super producer, mister MAXI
Freight Train Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hello, I'm still in the same Amaziel.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yes, they call me Ben Bullen for tax purposes here
in BaHaB? Is this a legal inquiry? The joke that
never gets old? That is mister Noel Brown. We are
joined again with our special returning guest, one of our
closest friends brother in podcast arms, the one and only
mister Matt twohands, Frederick.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Matt the taxman.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Frederick, my ex accidentally claimed my son as a dependent
this year. She's not supposed to this year, this past year.
So I tried to send in my taxes and guess
what they got sent back? So no, currently an extension period. Boys, Okay,
had to pay my taxes already because that's what they
make you do, my estimated amount. But now I've got
(01:22):
to send in all my papers.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I've always let the X claim the kid. That's just
that I don't know. I guess I'm just nice like that.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Also, it's so weird to think about how the irs
works in the United States, where they know how much
money you're supposed to pay, but you have to do
It's like you're in a toxic relationship where they're like, oh,
you should guess why, guess what it is? Can you
guess why I'm angry and you do it wrong?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
It's not gonna correct you, Like no, no, no, no, no,
you gave us too much money or you're asking them
too little back. No, that can correct you. It's only
if we meet the error in their way that's gonna
be you know.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, just it's ridiculous. And taxation and big government have
always been a thorn in the sides the average person,
so much so that it's driven some people in the
past two acts of piracy.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Guys. A whole group of like five people just walked
past where we are and we'll talk about where we are.
They all had entire pineapples filled with what looked like
alcoholic beverages.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Wait's was an alcohol because in our usual podcast, in
our usual podcast studio, that would be very abnormal. Yes,
but here it's weird that we don't have those big
hollow pineapple booze drinks because we are here again in
Baja Mar beautiful resort. We've been here for a couple
(02:36):
of days. What are some of your favorite things you
guys have done so far.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, I'm pleased to announce I did not get molested
by a flamingo, but I was forced to hold space
with them by our dear friend Matt Frederick. And I'm
glad I did. I'm glad I did.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
You were forced?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, Matt really twisted my arm about it.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
But while I was like, no, buddy, you can hide
behind me. That's all good. The flamingos. The best thing,
I would say was flamingos getting all up and personal
and weird on my leg hair.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
The worst thing was stepping on a bee. I did
step on a bee, but thankfully I'm not allergic.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
To be Was it a tropical bee?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I don't know you were there.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, they looked like a regular bee.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It was lookally a bee.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Nothing right home about them.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Well, I'm looking at a picture of the beautiful Baha
Mar right behind us where we're recording, and.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Man, you look at the pictures look out the window, man.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
We well, because I can see the entirety of it
from the sea, and it's gorgeous and the scale here.
It's hard to even really understand how many different buildings
and restaurants. And don't forget the casino.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Where I made so much money and my girlfriend took
all of it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, that's what they call a humble brag.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
There's nothing humble about it. Man, she got me.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Am I at three steaks? You and already or am
I too? Have they've all been delicious?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yeah? Man, I think you're up there.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So Matt's up on steak, I'm down on money. Bends
up on money and maybe even on steak.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I've been to the same restaurants so many times they
now know me. There's a dular. This morning they came
out of Max's way.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, at the swimming pig, which we can hang it
out at him.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Very conditioned, very condition friendly.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Have we all been watching snl uk?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I haven't seen the latest one.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I saw that they did a black snape riff.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Okay, okay. They made a song I felt very much
like the Lonely Island songs back in the day, and
it was all about British pubs in vacation. And when
I saw I saw, I was like, what is the
swimming pig thing? Max keeps talking about went By. I went,
oh my god, this is that song.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
This is that song?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
It is?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It is a British theme, Paba and the Food. So
what do you say, guys, let's get into it. Everybody
check out our earlier episode on some pirates who may
not be familiar with and tune in because in port two,
(04:56):
we're moving outward across the world, literally around the world.
We're not talking about the Caribbean. We are talking about
the Far East. Guys. Did you know the world's wealthiest,
most successful pirate in all of human history is a
Chinese woman known as Chin Shee No.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I mean, I saw the name pop up in my
research and I was very unfamiliar. And I'm so glad
that you picked this one band, because you're really great
at the Chinese pronunciations.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
I think the only reason I know who she is
is I believe she is a great person. You can
get in Civilization six. She's a great admiral.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Oh, there's also a character based on her in the
Pirates of Caribbean of the Caribbean franchise. Really yeah, based
on a real person. Kind of loosely, I'm just gonna say,
Pirates the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
What the Karen Knightley character.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, it's actually Johnny Depp's character. You have to think
about the subtext.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Amazing just for a chameleon that Johnny Depp.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Sure he is actually a chamelion.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Can you spell her names for anybody that wants to
look it up right now?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
The street name is chin Chese, so that would be
c h i n shih. We'll see why that's a nickname.
She's also known as more formally as jin ysau so
z h n g space y I space Sao. She
did not start off as a pirate. Well, I guess
(06:24):
there are very few people who are born as pirate. Like,
can you imagine your kid is born and the doctor says, now,
you've got a healthy baby, boy, but there is a
condition we want to tell you about. And the kid
already has an eye patch and like a peg leg
and a bird.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
That's it all.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
You can live a full life of piracy. You'll just
have to get them a boat a certain medical condition. So, okay.
This person comes to us in the beginning of the
eighteenth century, and at first she is what we would
diplomatically describe as a sex worker in a floating brothel, weird,
(07:00):
but it's what it sounds like. Like. The last time
we were over in Thailand or the first time we're
in Thailand, we saw floating markets, which are essentially communities
and cities linked by pretty narrow waterways. Oh, you can
buy a house there too.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Heck yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Did did we all watch the show Firefly?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, the Space Pirates show.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Yes, it reminds me of the character you get interest
introduced to in the first episode, the pilot, where I
think they refer to her as a diplomat maybe, but
she is on a space ship in all for all
intentsive purposes functions like a brothel essentially, but also as
diplomatic relations in some way.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
But anyone, last name, but.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Now different.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well, we all know the person, and yes, that like
a space cort is on. Yes, yes, so this this person,
Jiang Yisao, is not that different. She is working in
the city of Canton in this floating brothel, and she
runs into a guy named Chang Ii or Chang the First.
He is already a pirate. He's a big deal pirate.
(08:12):
He's been terrorizing the South China seed during the Qing dynasty.
And this is a bizarre rom come bizarre romance. So
Chang hears about this lady right here, she's good in bed.
We also hear she's great in business, and so yeah, right,
double threat. So he seeks her out at this floating
(08:33):
market and he says, oh crap, you're you're also hot
and you're good at business. Oh and to your point, Matt,
he finds out that she is using the secrets she
learns sleeping with clients to blackmail them, to get money
from them. They're wealthy, they're politically kills oldest time tale,
(08:53):
as old as time song, as old as rhyme.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
And that was certainly a power move that women had
in the days where you get close to powerful men,
you have them in compromising situations, you were able to
get dirt. Yeah, you can then use to your benefits
patriarchical side.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
I wonder if they like compiled a bunch of files
or something and then blockaded maybe another country to prevent
those files from coming out or something.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Or maybe they got dirt on people before they became
part of an administration they weren't qualified for.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Oh interesting, that feels light. I don't know, it feels familiar.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Max, Please less palpably. Everything is politics. Everything is history,
shout out dead press.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
But okay, I really wish that my facial expression could
have been caught right looked at it.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I was like, oh my god, I can hit you
all right now. I'm sorry, work, I can't.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I know.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
This is ridiculous history.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
No, no, it's also all me. Okay, you guys play nice.
This is a rom com kind of thing. Shen Y
is about twenty six years old. It's eighteen oh one
when this guy comes and says, I want to marry
you because you're hot and good at business. How old
she's twenty six?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Okay, okay, okay, So nothing epsteiny about it.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Well, no, I just mean that's so in my mind,
that's so young to already be so established and understand
a business so well, and then to be so successful
at it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
That's all no, I hear you, man. And unfortunately the
implication is that she probably started early. So this guy
comes here, has a very weird marriage proposal, and he
finds out the hard way that yeah, she is that
good at business because she says, okay, Chang, I'll marry
you if you give me equal control of all of
(10:46):
your ships. And he had already United multiple rival Chinese
pirate gangs. So he was running an empire. So it's
kind of like if you went to and it's a
good example, I guess for the boats Richard Branson. If
someone went to marry Richard Branson and they said, I'll
do it, but you have to give me all like
all of your planes.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I'm gonna need a prenup in all your boats.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And so Chang said yes, and so I just went out.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
That makes him a really dangerous person to the established
governments that are operating out there. Right. Yes, we know,
folks like Fred Hampton like how dangerous it is when
there are disparate or disconnected groups who kind of want
the same thing or fight for the same thing. Yes,
I am when they Yes, when somebody or the organizations,
(11:37):
you know, when somebody can come together, can bring people
together like that, that is very dangerous to the establishment.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And how about this, because I know we've got to
be fair, how about instead of be saying gangs, we
say organizations some of which were gangs.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yes, yes, no, no, you're right, you're right. That is
essentially how it's some were.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Just like let's give lunch the school kids, right, it's
a wide spectrum and it takes a real diplomat to
unite those stakeholders. And at first everything is working out
because Shanghi's how is all about this? She says, Okay,
I'm tired of this floating market. I'll help run the
new family business. In six years into their marriage, her
(12:21):
husband passes away. He's only forty two. We don't know
much about how he passed away, Like we don't know
if he was killed by the tsunami at sea, if
he was poisoned, maybe by his wife. We just don't
have a lot of information.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
But I'm really surprised by that. Just I feel like
that guy would have gone out in some epic battles.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Ladies of Glory.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Well yeah, because again like the government somewhere would have
said this guy can't stay.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, like the ching dinasty devil. I didn't like him,
so why didn't they get him first? But regardless of
what happens, this leaves the up and coming pirate queen
in a very precarious position because there's a confusion based
patriarchical society. And this is where she starts to earn
(13:05):
her nickname that we mentioned, ching shit. It translates to
Chang's widow. So that's a morbid nickname. Yeah, that's where
you're you're every time someone meets you casually, they're reminding
you that your husband is dead. Yeah, they're like, oh,
you're the window lady.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well that is interesting though, because you do often hear
those kind of dark nicknames associated with women and crime,
usually something like like the.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Black widow or the like you know what I mean,
or competitive eating.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yes, Sonya Thomas, I.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Always played that up. I can't imagine. I don't know,
there's probably something really scary about that. I feel like
with some of the most successful pirteers. I'm thinking about
Black beerd in particular, some of the folks who had
the bigger ships and the bigger beers. Well, if you
had a crew and you looked out and you saw
(13:57):
a particular flag or you know, you you saw a
ship that you, oh, I know that's associated with the widow,
Like that would be a form of terror that that
strikes way before the ship gets anywhere near your ships.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, they had their own version of Jolly Roger, right, Yeah,
that kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Yeah, you know, it's one of these things too where
it's like maybe I don't even want to fight. Maybe
it's just surrender because we don't want to get Charles
vained right now?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Well, if it's Charles Vain, weavers in Firefly or Serenity, Like, okay, guys,
I think maybe.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
Say Firefly, we don't talk about sriatedy. They had to
end the story quickly.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I get it.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
But it's nowhere as good as Firefly, And like, let's
be Frank Harris's get off on a tangent. Sure, in
a world of remakes that are terrible and no one wants,
how have we never got on a season two a Firefly?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Wait, you guys, do.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Work that might be incredible.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It might be the next flight to Dragons.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
You know, people talk about they want to clear up
scure movie. I want to clear up secure anime. Okay,
the excellent, excellent, after the near Tamana. Yeah, I want
to clear up scarean.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
You're gonna want to anime it this one as well, guys.
I love that we're mentioning black Beard because after her
husband dies and she gets this grulish nickname, ching Shih
starts commanding over eighteen hundred pirate ships. What an estimated
(15:27):
eighty thousand pirates for comparison to Blackbeard, who is also
very successful pirate. He commanded four ships and three hundred pirates.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Yeah, that's inconceivable.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
It's definitely that's navy at that point. Yeah, very much.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
So maybe at that point that's now.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Oh my god, that's most of the ocean. There's one
if there's at least one of those ships out there
just checking things out.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, and again, a lot of these are going to
be sloops, right, They're gonna be smaller, but they've got
some big boys in there. And if you look at
authors like Laura Suk Duncomb, the author of Pirate Women,
The Princesses, Prostitutes and Privateers who Ruled the Seven Seas,
you will see that a lot of a lot of
historians called Ching Shi the greatest pirate who ever lived,
(16:16):
because she pirated longer than most people in a career
that has, you know, drop off rate, drop off drop
off rate, she makes more money, h she ultimately will
get to this. She ultimately gets away from the game
just fine, which is something that is like winning the
lottery thrice. So how did she in a society that
(16:40):
really just dumps on women, how did she succeed in
what's already a male dominated industry. She had a really
strict code of laws. We're talking earlier about the we're
talking earlier about the dark side of piracy in episode one, right,
all the horrific sexual abuse and assaults that would occur.
(17:01):
She had special laws about this. She said, any pirate
who is caught giving his own orders or disobeying the
orders of a superior has to be beheaded on the spot.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Wow, which is this is.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Not a three strikes kind of hr policy. And if
they had female captives and a pirate assaulted one of
those female captives under any circumstances, that pirate is also
put to death. If the sex between the two is consensual,
then they are both put to death. Wow, captives do
(17:37):
I'm not saying she was a nice lady.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Well, that's really interesting. I I was reading a bit
before we came in here today about relationships amongst pirates
and how complicated it could be, but also how normal
it could be, where if you usually you would have
a at least in what I was reading about Caribbean pirates,
(17:59):
you would have a often a man who goes out
on a ship as a part of a crew who
would have a wife and perhaps many children back somewhere
wherever he was, and just the.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Man to bring up Assassin's created a good well, no.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I remember, I remember, and your boat wife well.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
But then but then on the boat it was very
difficult at least what again, Like I don't only know
what I've read thus far, but it seemed like it
was very difficult to keep women on ships like that
because of that chaos factor of having a bunch of
men at sea on a ship together, you know, and
and there's just there were often horrific things that occurred.
(18:38):
Having a punishment system set up for that that is
that strict, especially if it's a consenting perhaps even couple
or two people that are attempting to become a couple
while they're at sea. And I wonder why that was
so frowned upon.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I think it was her reacting to the norm. Yeah,
that shows us how bad the problem was to be
enacted with that severity. It's kind of like if you
ever see a weird sign, like you walk into a
gas station and you see a sign that says, you know,
no shirt, no shoes, no drunk horses, then you know
that something happened with a horse at some point, and
(19:17):
probably often enough that they eventually they threw up their
hands and they said, we got to put it on
the sign.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Guys.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
You know, you don't see those anymore. And I really wish.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I wish there were. We wish that there was less
of a sobriety movement among horses.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Yeah, I mean, nobody wants drunk horses around.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Uh. There's also Yeah, this was called the Red Flag.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
The fleet.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
We're talking about three years, a very short career of
piracy on the high seas. And during this time, Ching
Sheep beefs with everybody. She fights the Qing dynasty government,
so she fights the government of China, beats them. She
fights the Portuguese Navy, beats them. She fights the East
India Company beats them.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Whoa there.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
They all try to, you know, smash down like you said,
Max and Navy, and they don't. They're not able to
pull it off. But the Chinese government, just like the
colonial governments in the Caribbean, eventually they throw up their
hands and they just say, hey, lady, look this is nuts.
We will forgive everything. We'll give you amnesty if you
(20:26):
just stop pirating all over us like you're piloting all
over our butts and our faces. We just can't take it.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
That's like the blackjack tables right there.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Leave it on the table.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
No left This caught on the BJ tape.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
I'm sorry, I was trying to be shortened get out
an emergency message. Do we know roughly where she and
her naval forces are operating? Is it what we would
consider the South China see in that area of the Pacific,
or like, I just don't. I'm trying to imagine how
much ground or water you could cover with that many ships.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Right, this is coastal. I think it was up and
down that kind of eastern coast of the area. And
that also meant that it was hard to catch her
maybe to figure out where she was at all these ships, right.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
I wonder if she had We talked last episode about
the Bahamas and Nassau in particular in a certain time
during piracy where Nassau was kind of the headquarters and
the place to go. I wonder if, like, if there
was a place like that in an island somewhere, an
island chain.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Oh, I'm sure there are lots of Heidi holes there too,
especially when you get when you around the island areas
and when you get to places that were adjacent to
trade routes, like if they went I don't know if
they went as far south as the Strait of Malacca,
but that would have been a huge money maker. And
so they couldn't beat her. They couldn't beat her. They
(22:02):
offered her amnesty and she accepted, and she went into
retirement with all her treasure and was never real We
don't really know what she did afterwards. She just flipped
the switch, lived a quiet life. She died at the
age of sixty nine in eighteen forty four, which is
(22:23):
so unusual for that time and for a pirate. It
was like the best.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
Try a full life is a pirate is not something
that happens, like I can't think of any pirate that
lives longer than the end of forty which is usually
in the story.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And maybe him pirate in thirty A.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
In that case, Oh, there was some pirate I was
reading about. No, I think he was one of the
guys you were potentially going to talk about John.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yes, John Avery or I think Henry John Avery.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Went by a bunch of ultimately Avery and he was
another one of these people that he pulled off some
insane attack where he made the equivalent of several hundred
million dollar on this one attack on several ships and
then just did the retirement thing and just kind of
checked out and got out of there. He apparently died
(23:08):
like a year later. Because but but you know, but
just this concept that you could actually hit the jackpot. Yeah,
you could hit the jackpot and then be done and
then live for that long with whatever that wealth brings you.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Well to jump in here.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
I mean, this is kind of similar to like like
what we're talking about with Charles Vain about how it
wasn't really like obviously the money and stuff was important,
but like there was more going on there. I do
feel like when we think about pirates, we obviously think
about like the nasthaal pirates, there was a lot more
going on there, you know, free themselves from the privateer.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Life, the conscription stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Maybe it is more common than in other examples where
you know, it is more like in your case, like
almost a heist. I'm pulling a heist, you know, and
this one is like, you know, she inherited an empire
and she's like, you.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Know what, I'm going to retire? Why not?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
You know, I don't think these guys in Nassau had
a retirement plan. I think there was. We're thinking right
now a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
We're just desperate to escape slavery.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yes, oh man, that's such an important factor. When she retired,
did that empire continue on without her?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah? Yeah, But it's similar to It's similar to how
the Mongol Empire began to splinter after the death of
Jengus Khan. So when they didn't have that leader and
other people were getting offered amnesty as well, right, they
were trying to avoid the long brutal arm of the law.
(24:34):
This is this is what Max, I think you would
like to see an anime of right of Chang's widow
on the high Seas. For now, you're going to have
to settle for the powerful mistress Ching one of the
nine Pirate lords and the Pirates of the Caribbean. I mean,
we want to keep going. We got one more female
Chinese pirate. This is much more recent too. Yeah, okay,
(24:58):
So nicknames are everybody loves a cool nickname. I'm addicted
to nicknames. Uh. One of the favorites we found our
research for this series is Huang two Guns Bomb.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
That's nickname both.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Two guns two guns or mistress two guns or the
two gun Empress.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Are we talking like blunderbuss or are we talking.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
This is way more recent? The CIA is involved in this.
Oh wow, Okay. She is born to a peasant family
near Shanghai, and she is a criminal from the jump.
You know, like we said, babies can't be born pirates,
but if babies can be born criminals, this is kind
(25:45):
of our our culprit or, this is our suspect. She
became the leader of a local gang that was already
raiding coastal areas called Xiangshu and Shixiang, and she got
captured by the police. She was all to escape execution.
But this is occurring during the outbreak of what we
call the Second Sino Japanese War, which also doesn't get
(26:08):
talked about too often in a lot of textbooks, at
least here in the States. I have no idea of
nineteen thirty seven to nineteen forty five. So this is
happening during World War two. Whoa longer than World War two? Yeah,
that's how recent it is. So because of this war,
she gets an opportunity to expand the brand. She says, look,
(26:31):
I'm a bandit. I'm a pirate, I'm a criminal. But
the nationalist military is recruiting people just like me because
we're good at violence. So imagine if the US Army
at some point said, hey, instead of just conscripting kids
out of high school, check out the prisons. That's kind
(26:53):
of all.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
That happens inmates run the asylum. Anybody killer, Mike.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, exactly. We got to get over to Bankhead Seafood.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
You guys, I don't know about Bankhead.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
See he co owns with t I. Okay, so together
we figured it out. He got their guys as we
did it. Yeah, let's we'll just we'll hit up bike
and go hang out with them. I think at the seafood.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Spot Killer, t I Pain. That's the way to do it.
So it's like all three.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
There we go. Yes, it took me a second. Now
she is commanding people qualify as troops, and they are
still doing all their other stuff. They're smuggling, they're doing piracy,
(27:46):
they're doing illegal trade. And Huong and her followers are
recruited by the military to fight against the Japanese invasion.
But then she becomes a propaganda gold mine. They as
they're like Okay, so how do we how do we
tell the public that we just are hiring a bunch
of criminals. Yeah, and they say, well, we got a rebrand,
(28:10):
we got to pivot, we got to get some good
pr in here, and we are going to make a
new personality. Now, we're not going to talk about her past.
She is a patriotic woman, right, We're going to treat
her like a what's that same we used to have.
This guy's a shark, but he's our shark. They were like,
(28:32):
Quong is.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Talking about connor Burn.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
He's our shark. But as we know, he has not
yet been convicted of piracy. Do you want to keep that?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I love it?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Okay, we'll keep the part where I say do we
want to keep that?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
As well?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
The tension in the room rose, But yeah, no pirates
in our gig so far. Anyway, the Nationalist government, as
we know, in this nationalist Communist war, they retreated to
ty wand and then Wong gets into the secret service
and does guria warfare against the communist forces that are
(29:10):
winning the battle. Right, and so, in an effort to
appease this shark, the nationalist authorities give Wong land. They
give her a garment factory. They give her own factory,
and they give her a bunch of money, and they
do everything they can to hander all these things. Other
criminals are not getting this stuff, by the way, at all.
(29:31):
They're just not getting murdered. The reason, guys, that they're
kissing her butt so much is because if they don't,
they're certain that she is going to start collaborating with
the Central Intelligence Agency, who's already been kind of reaching
out to them, and be like, hey, you're pretty good
at a violence. You don't like communists, we should hang out.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Geez hi. I know we're just at a grocery store,
but I'm with the CIA exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, I like your garment factory. You know, I'm a
I factor in some things myself.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Yeah, it seems like a really dangerous person that if
you could turn them, that would be a very dangerous
person to just be operating. And maybe the concept is
just I was gonna say, distract. We know, time is
the most valuable resource, right If she's got a garment
factory to run and a bunch of other stuff to manage, well,
(30:28):
then you're no longer you know, thinking so much on
the daily about all the you know, acts of kind
of warfare that you're going to do for a government
contract or something.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Kind of like when you have a really energetic kid
and you think I need to get this one addicted
to animal crossing.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Oh god, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Everybody help you.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
There is Max is plugged in. So the government also
promotes Slong as almost like a Rosie the Riveter figure
while they're doing this, So they're giving her fame as well,
and they're saying, look, not only can women participate in
war zone work, but they can do that on top
of managing the household. And then people start questioning the narratives.
(31:09):
So these films come out and these various research pieces
come out that say, oh, oh snap, you guys, this
thing is a pirate, like a real pirate, Like.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
This is not like some like person who would normally
be made up as like oh this patriotic thing, like, no,
she's a Pirates are generally not that up. Yeah, and
moral and popular.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
And so then there was a narrative war.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
They have their they have a screup or two. It's
just there are a few. There's some honor among thieves.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Well, that's what we're talking about earlier, because there is
a certain pirate code.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yes, yes, that that may vary depending on the ship, right.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
And don't don't leave your phone on the BJ table.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
And keep your cutlass clean.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yes, really, especially especially at the BJ table.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
NAC get ready for it. We're being serious here. No,
there were very specific rules that governed life aboard these ships,
and some of them had to do with keeping your
your outfits and your your weapons tight.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Oh wow, Oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Personal hygiene was very important on ships. I know, we're
gonna off on tangent here about you know, if you're
stuck on the ship for a long time. There's many
stories I came across about mutinies because the ships think
so bad, or the captains things disease.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
You know, one person gets something that's transmissible by air,
then everybody screwed.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Important question, guys, what's the opposite of scurvy? When you
have too much vitamin C?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
You have too much vitamin Uh we're all looking at you. Yeah, okay, fine, yeah,
it's scrivy questions.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
But last question? Yeah, was the cutlass and Alton Brown
multi tool?
Speaker 3 (32:46):
And was it a cutlass Supreme but like a moltis
with olives.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yeah, just no, but really could you because you would
use your cutlets for the obvious pirrating reasons, right, But
it's also a very shark oh yeah, knife potentially.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
And rigging and so on.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Maybe or let's say you catch a bunch of fish.
Maybe there's some big old fish. I got a cutlass,
of course, I'm just wondering.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Also, it's just referred to as a vitancy overdose. You
can't digest the excess.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Water soluble mm hmm. So it's not exactly toxic, but
it could lead to I believe some digestion.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Is floating diarrhea of the normal A lot man.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Max with the facts.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I just noticed Nole's hat and it is fantastic in
this environment, and it's got lots of flowers on it
is says something about Marcus.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
It's Marcus, the restaurant we went to last night. Actually,
Brandy Ben's a significant other, suggested that I get this hat.
Didn't even notice they were selling them, doubled back, bought
the hat, gotten many compliments on it.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Since almost as cool as Ben's ATL hat.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
That Atl and the ups and Matt I want to
count your beautiful hat, which is not a hat, it's
just your luscious.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Lots and those sweet, sweet white milky for a compliment,
Max your shirt, thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Why don't you describe your shirt?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
It is a white cat and the tarot cards, saying
the white cat tarot card.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
There it is.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Can I just let down on Matt's pale, white milky thighs?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Really?
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Oh, we're going there.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
He's been there for the second time around. Back to
the grotto, we shall go.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Oh yes, back to the grotto.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
So this is weird because it's pirracy, much more recent
than we think about when you think about pirates, right,
and we know that this lady was definitely a consummate
pirate because she was switching whenever she's joined in different forces.
Was whatever worked for her, But also she became too
valuable to these different rival factions for anyone. She just
(35:10):
straight up killer because they were thinking, well, what if
we can turn her because we know this lady's a turnstile.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
I see what you mean. That would be the most
dangerous person. And I do wonder why nobody decided, hey,
we have to take this person out because there is
a potential that even if we think she's working with us,
she's not.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah. And plus the fact that she's becoming a national figure,
even if controversial. Everybody was recognizing Rosie the Riveter during
the wartime in the US. People are recognizing her, and
she's become a heroic figure in Chinese history, often misportrayed, misremembered.
You'll see all these legends about her that are like
similar to George Washington, legends about how good she is
(35:51):
at firearms. They called her two guns is what it
translates to, because she was known for, at least according
to the propaganda and survivor's tales, she was known for
jumping into ships or into fights with two guns and
just pop popping off Renalds like Frank Reynolds. Yeah, well
(36:12):
he's usually you know, it's weird to me that he
usually just has one guy, you know. Anyway, then she
started blasting.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
But then yeah, and so we know, just off, I
see him.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Sorry, I love it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I love Danny And shout out to everybody who uh
restarted the rumhm joke. I posted a picture of us
visiting Flamingo's rumhands.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Simpsons, is that always funny?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yeah, you closed a picture of us here. Yeah, yeah, okay,
I need to sorry.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Oh my girlfriend made me do it, but promotion beforehand,
I was not ault.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
I told him I'm welcome to do it, but he
cannot tag my Instagram because no one's allowed to have
my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Oh it's just for tattoos.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
That's for tattoos.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Is afoot. And so we know that people have still
gone back to Madam two Guns over and over to
embellish her story to try to figure out what the
truth of it is. We know there are there's plenty
of documentation of her violence and fighting Japanese forces, but
we still don't know exactly how she pulled all of
this off because they were they had military training, and
(37:23):
her guys were just you know, criminals.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Weird. Yeah, and then it couldn't be a school of
the America's situation that's on the other side of the world.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I know, man, there's there's so much more to get
to about that character. But I think one of the
most important parts of this here is that she literally
became multiple things across her life that were in direct
opposition to one another, and then she became I don't
know if we should call her a national hero but
(37:57):
I don't know. You know, America has its own problems
with its national heroes. She ultimately does turn down the
offer from the CIA because they do go after a
hard and then.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
It wouldn't hold on. She even if she accepted the
offer from the CIA, she would have officially turned down
the offer from the CIA.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Ding ding ding, Well done, Matt. And she after she
turned down that offer, she started to shift away from
piracy or what they were calling military operator or maritime operations. Uh.
And she becomes more active in the socialist government. She
was going to She did get in trouble a couple
(38:35):
of times because she kept trying to get Colonel Kurtz
about stuff and planning her own unsanctioned operations. You know,
you just get a taste for it, Okay, so maybe
he got it.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
I feel like they got her, dude. If she if
she started embedding herself more into the government, getting more
involved in the socialist government, and then she's really paranoid
about stuff all of a sudden, come on.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
And then she also started acting later in life, yea,
in propagation films. Yeah, and in Taiwan. She ultimately dies
on May fourth, nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
So piracy is much closer than it looks in the
rear view mirror. And when she dies, the legend waxes
and waynes. But she's still remembered as a legendary pirate leader,
and depending on how the geopolitical winds blow in that
part of the world, they still bring her out as
(39:38):
a propaganda tool every now and then, and this is
one of those times. Is another moment.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Do you know if she has a like a family,
a legacy and that kind of thing that continues on
I would be interested in.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah. Yeah, they have surviving descendants. Her grandson is a
guy named Shay Wick like John Wick. Yeah, and he
went to a ceremony in Shanghai as recently on twenty fourteen, Wow,
the anniversary the Nanjing massacre. So the history repeats, Man,
(40:13):
still so baffling. We hope it's We hope it's interesting
to all our fellow ridiculous historians to learn that, despite
the rampant misogyny of a lot of piracy, the world's
best pirate was a woman, and some of the world's
most recent pirates probably worked for the CIA.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Wow, I'm not going to look at the ocean the
same After we leave this incredible studio.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Man, we are it. Seriously, We're not blowing rainbows, folks.
This is a great spot, and this is a very
nice studio, very.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Cool, Our lovely flamingo guides walked by just a man. Yes,
come on the podcast.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Yes, we all hung out flamingos and they smell very nice.
Do not think that was the thing I was gonna
find out.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I know it was part of the tour. The smelling.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Let's clarify though, there is a smell to flamment inclosures.
If you've been to a zoo, yeah, it is not
the flamingo that you are smelling with that smell. When
you go up to a flamingo as we did and
you smell their feathers, they smell.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Incredible fresh and clean. Yeah, very fresh.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
And we can't thank you enough for tuning in, folks.
We can't thank the good people at Baja More enough
for having us, but we'll try. Thank you so much,
Baja Seriously, nice one, thank you, nice, seriously, cheers.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Me, thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Got just say one thing I love about this place,
and I haven't been too many I haven't been to
many resorts of this size, and just how opulent and incredibly.
There's just so much cool stuff here. What they do
with water here on this resort is awesome. We receive
these metal bottles that I'm looking I'm looking around at
(41:52):
people walking around land. Everybody seems to have them. And
instead of giving everybody bottled water in places or having
that sailing a bunch of places, you just go and
you refill your metal water bottle.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, like such a great idea.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah. The water features also, speaking of water, are amazing.
There's fire on the water and also the grotto and
also the grotto. We've got We've got so much more
to get to, folks. We are going to have more
pirate stories in the future. We're gonna farm them out
because I think twenty twenty six is going to be
a pirate phase for us. Maybe, yeah or maybe. Thank
(42:28):
you so much to our super producer mister Max Williams,
Thanks to Alex Williams who composed this bang in track.
And thanks very much to our returning guest mister Matt Frederick. Matt,
you got to come back on the show.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I thank you as well. Matt.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I'll pay you well, you know kind of.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Oh and who else.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Do we need to if you don't come back. I'll
hit you with me cutless, no slice, slice slice, Oh gosh,
who else? Chris Frosciotis needs Jeff Coats here in spirit,
Jonathan Strickland quist or A J. Bahamas Jacobs, Yeah, the Puzzler,
he might be here. I'm actually here in a hammock.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
A big thanks to doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance, the
rude Dudes a ridiculous crime. If you dig us, you
will love them and no thanks to you.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
Hey, thanks to you as well. Buddy. We'll see you
next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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