June 2, 2026 • 36 mins
One thing about the United States -- we'll throw a party for anything. As a result, it's no surprise that back in 1994, a group of well-meaning pranksters in San Francisco decided to don Santa Claus costumes in a whimsical protest against capitalism. Although it was originally meant to be a one-off event, SantaCon was a hit! Over the next few years it expanded into multiple celebrations across the country, and then across the globe. But with this expansion came a change... and it wasn't long before residents of various towns (especially New York City) saw SantaCon as less lighthearted fun, and more as a booze-fueled free-for-all of soused, wild Santas terrifying the streets. Tune in as Ben, Noel and Max discover the wholesome origins of SantaCon -- and why so many people seem to hate it today.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Ho, thank you so much
as always for tuning in. We are back in a
ridiculous typical history fashion. We are indeed doing a Christmas
episode here with Belseemer Yes with Bells on with Mule
Tide Lads, Christmas in June. That is none other than
(00:49):
our own super producer Max the Frey Train Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I think we might even be a month early for
an unseasonable Christmas discussion. Wouldn't that typically be Christmas in July? Yeah,
that would be the cliche. Soil boy, we just can't
get it right. We're gonna get it right.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
We released the Leapier episode on the Leapier.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh that's a guys, Hey, guys, we uh, we're just
ahead of the curve.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
That's what we'll say is that this is what they in.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
The industry call it tent pole episode.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Ben I think I've talked on the podcast definitely Off
Mike with you about my recent rediscovery of the Birthday Boys,
the sketch comedy show. They do a sketch called September Santa,
where as Santa Claus comes to the window during September
and instead of saying ho ho ho, he says hoo hoo,
who It's September Santa, and he gives everyone a pencil and.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
It's really underwhelming. And that's sort of the joke.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And that is Noel Brown. Oh, Ben Bullet.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
We're very on September Santa.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh we are. We are talking Santa Claus, Chris, if
you're listening. We're big fans. We've we've talked in the
past about how Political Cartoonist and the Coca Cola company
created the image we associate with that magical elf today.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Hell, we talked about it in our recent discussion of
New Coke.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
We sure did. You can't get away from it. You've
probably also heard our explorations of Crampis, who I like
to think of as the sith Lord to Santa's Jedi.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I like to overpronounce it because I always once, as
you know, a small German boy.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
We talked about the Yule Tide Lads, a rogues gallery
of mischief making scamps with swiperd Yeah, with extremely weird,
action oriented names, very strange.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
You know, it would be sick Ben to get an
action figure set of the Mule Lads, each with their
own you know, articulatable move like what is it meat
hook something liquor sniffer, window liquor, window liquers at twin
song to one.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Of the things. So maybe maybe that uh, maybe maybe
that doll's head opens and has a big tongue that
flicks up and down.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I just really, you know, who else has a big
tongue flicks having down his carampoos? But I just realized,
Ben that the AFX twin song window lickor may well
be a reference to the Mule Lads. But we're talking
weird fetishization of Santa Claus today.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, we'd think if you had.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Like a furry con, a furry convention or one of
those kind of swinger festivals. But everyone dressed up as
Santa Claus. And look, this is not me throwing the
furry community under the bus. I know it's not all
about weird hotel sex. I know there's a lot of
layers to the furry life, but Santa con Man weirdly
horny and drunk.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, the folks, we're coming to you live from the
United States of America. A pretty popular experiment for a
few centuries. This country in particular has conventions and parties
and gatherings for darn near everything. Santa Claus is no exception.
As Noel said, we're talking Santa Con. It's high notes,
(04:22):
its history, its controversy, and perhaps most ridiculously, why some
people are gonna tell you it's the worst thing ever.
I don't know. Noel Key, take us to California in
nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I would love to ben California circa nineteen ninety four
one of my very favorite eras, so join us when
Santa Cohn officially takes root thanks to a guy named
John Law and his buddies Rob Schmidt and Chris Radcliffe.
This is the sort of the modern version of the
con as we know it. However, it's inspiration or these lads.
(05:02):
Inspiration dates even farther back to the nineteen seventies, when
a Danish theater group known as Solvagnin decided to get
a little tricksy and hatch a prank.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, so they had dozens of actors in their crew
dress as Santa in Copenhagen and these ooh, I have
it wrong. In the notes, I have these Satans. It's
these Santas. They stand around this department store, they grab
items off the shelf and then they had them to
(05:35):
unsuspecting innocent customers as Christmas presents.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
This is anarchy personified ben They're basically shoplifting.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
They're stealing from the rich and giving to the poor
sort of kind of.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's a bit of performance art, right, an anti corporate
protest masquerading as sort of a flash mob slash bit
of performance.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Art improv everywhere style. Right. So the folks that we
just mentioned there a second ago, they are inspired by
an article they read in Mother Jones about this this
group and this prank squad called the Cacophony Society. They
(06:19):
launch Santa Con. Originally they called it Santarcy.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Right, like I was saying earlier, Total anarchy, chaos.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
You gotta love that.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And they know how to get up to some shenanigans
in Copenhagen. So in the first year, thirty four folks
participated in this event, wearing Santa suits, marching through the
streets of the Golden Gates City aka San Francisco. I
don't call it San Frana the locals and make funny
they crash hot.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Oh boy, you know what isn't it funny?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Though? Been the no matter how cool people are that
we hang with, they always think that we'll think that
that's fun or cool.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I'm always blown away.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
We're hanging with like very in the no people, and
they always say hot Lanta to us, as if that's
supposed to like, you know, be cute.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
But it's right, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, but it's kind of like some Uh, it's kind
of like an American who goes to Dublin and expects
everybody to be amazed that their grandparents were Irish.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, or orders an Irish car bomb.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
No, oh gosh, that's one to grow on folks. Don't
do it.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
No, definitely don't do it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
If anyone doesn't know that is that is actually a
pretty popular it used to be drink here in the
States where I think it is a shot of Bailey's dropped.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Into Irish Irish whiskey, so it's half Bailey's half Irish whiskey,
so lo like at Jambison or a totalim or do
you drop it into like a half half pint.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Of half pints and it's actually pretty good, but.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It tastes like chocolate milk. But yeah, incredibly offensive.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Well, you see, folks, Max, Nolan and I used to
be cool. We used to party.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
We were never hear something, I'm cool now that I
don't party.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
We were.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I am. I am definitely cool now that now that
I don't party. But I was never cool.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
All right, Well check out our earlier when.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I were in the hot tub together.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Oh boy, the hot tub times. Max, take me back
to the hot tub times.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
We can do it again, buddy, you can bring Ben
this time to think.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
I think it's time. I think hard passed.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No man, Matt, Matt and his partner and I were
in hot tub together just recently.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Well, Dan, now I feel as out.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You were there.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
You just went off and did your own thing at Bahamar's.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, it was party, and we were not We were
not dressed as Santa I was definitely not invited either. Noel,
don't feel bad.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Uh, we invite it too.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Ell, y'all were invited.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I think the invitation was implied. All are welcome in
Max's hot tub parties.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
And these folks, not Max and Nole, these folks who
launched Santa Cod are trying to not create crime. Necessarily,
they're crashing elite parties. Their co founders said they wanted
to just shock people and put them into a different reality.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
They're just out there rebel rousing up to some mischief,
but all good clean fun. Like you said, Ben, they
weren't like doing vandalism or breaking and entering. So it
was originally supposed to be kind of a mockery of
how offensively consumerist Christmas ultimately became and continues to be.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
So there came this moment when the organizers realized that
there might.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Be something bigger going on here than just a one
off kind of prank. The Coffee Society decided they would
restage the event the next year, at which point more
than one hundred participants signed up. And then we started
to see a handful of arrests as these Santas began
to imbibe perhaps a little more openly.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, they got jolly on the streets, is the way
I put it. They're pretty South Santa's And I had
a side note on the research for this. You guys,
is San Francisco a pepsi town or a Coca Cola.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Tow It's definitely a cocaine town, is that true? Well,
I mean back in these days it probably was. Certainly
in the sixties. But that's a good.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Question, Matt. I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I tend to think of West Coast as being more
Coca Cola. I think of pepsi as being more of
a mid Middle America thing. But honestly, I seem to
recall being seeing more Coke products.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Let's see, you'll have to let us know, folks. This
this thing anyway, it's called Santa Con from its original
Bethlehem in San Francisco. It franchises out to Portland. In
nineteen ninety six. Police meet the Santa Con fans and
(11:12):
they suspect for some reason that these jolly revelers may
be terrorists, so they hit them up with full on
riot gear.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
By the way, San Francisco is definitely a Coca Cola town.
It would have most of the restaurants, stadiums, and chain
type establishments.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Have contracts with Coke.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I love you guys for.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Their fountain drinks.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I love you guys. Seafood soup too. What's it called ciappino?
Something like that?
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Like a chowda?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, it's like a tomato based a tomato. Eachouda chowda.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Jump in here as well. Oracle Park, which is the
Athe and T Park, which is the giant stadium right
on the bay, has a giant Coca Cola bottle advertisement
in the outfield. I was actually I got suggestion from
Reddit to find out which side of the argument you're on.
Just whatever, So do they serve at your baseball stadium?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
That's who's winning the Oh yeah, that would that would
be a pretty good canary in the soda col mine.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
And we've confirmed that Max Williams is on Reddit.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Was there ever any death of that one?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
We know that after nineteen ninety six. The next year,
nineteen ninety seven, Santa Quauan expanded to Seattle. By nineteen
ninety eight, it's in Los Angeles and New York. And
each step of its expansion to your earlier point, NOL,
it became less of a protest against consumerism and more
(12:43):
an excuse for people to just cause play and party.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
There is something kind of funny. You see it in
like comedies of the typically of the eighties, where they'll
be like some dude playing Santa at a you know
what do you call it, like an apartment store or
some kind of Christmas party, and inevitably ends up getting wasted.
There is just something about the image of the slovenly
(13:09):
hobo Santa, Yes, for lack of a better term, that
has kind of persevered, So I get what they were
going for with this. However, it did seem to balloon
a little bit out of control. The Village Voice had
this to say when John Law decided to bring Santacon
to New York City in nineteen ninety eight, referring to
as a situation where a San Franciscan strapped on a
(13:30):
fake white beard, donned a twelve dollars red suit, and
led two hundred Santas as they went caroling up Fifth
Avenue in Manhattan. During their joyful march uptown, throngs of
bustling New Yorkers and tourists paused to gauk at the
sea of Redfeldt and Vlure. A police officer yelled, Hey, Santa,
can you get me a date with Cindy Crawford?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
And I'm walking here. It's so New York. I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So it seems like this guy was sort of charmed
by it. It's a village voice being a bit of
a you know, snarky rag, So it doesn't seem like
the ultimate implications had become.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Clear yet where this was heading in New York.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, Initially it was just a fun thing for you
to see in the city, right, and you would say,
you know, hey, Santa, you're walking there. These folks weren't
breaking stuff. They were strolling around public areas, they were
climbing on public statues, they were singing loud Christmas songs,
(14:29):
and ultimately they were just a bunch of red suited scamps.
They had their the lure and they would be they
would be partying. I'm going to be honest, I think
they were probably using drugs. Not to sound too much
like a square, but they were peaceful. So whenever local
security came up to them and said, hey guys, you're
(14:51):
all dressed like Santa, and you were all clearly not
able to drive.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
So it was probably the kindly Irish cop that said
moving along, fellows moving a law.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Right, They complied, and the Santa said ho, ho will go.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
They left. It was pretty wholesome. It seemed like everyone,
even unto the police and the security guards to your
earlier point, was having a bit of fun with it.
One of the coolest examples of this comes from John
Law himself.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, Johnny Law himself were called a particular moment of
inspiration where the Santas wandered in their throng into Central Park,
where they found a crowd of ice skaters reveling on
a frozen pond. This the Santas yelled at them, Merry Christmas,
and the skaters screamed back cheers of appreciation and you know, jubilants.
(15:48):
It was just, you know, a lovely moment. They were appreciated.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
This was a really cool moment for john and Law.
He says that he hated Christmas ever since he was
nine years old and learned that everybody spoilers three to one.
If you are under nine years old, turn off the
podcast now three two. What he learned that Santa is
not real.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
And he's real if you believe he's real in your heart.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Sure. There were probably two hundred of them getting drunk
later this year, very real, he says. He says, later,
I almost started crying. I stopped hating Christmas. Then that
was the beginning of my existential life. I thought Christmas
was belowney and everything we're told is a lie. All
the companies are just trying to sell you stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Ah, they say the Johnny Law's heart grew three sizes
that day. This is some real grants you still Christmas
Catharsis year. That's when Law really truly felt the power
of Christmas as a symbol and he realized, and this
(16:58):
is in his words, people just want to feel warm
and fuzzy and they just want to join together beauty.
I couldn't agree more. I mean, if there's anything I
like about Christmas, it is that very aspect. And I'm
not like super against the commercialism.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Of it, you know whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I'm a bit of a shopper, but I do enjoy
the decorations, especially in a place like New York where
there feels like there's magic in the air. I'm a
sucker for that stuff. And it's mainly because of the
things that he's describing here, that kind of community quality.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Dude, Asia does Christmas amazing. It's boggers, you know. And
if you get a chance to check out a Christmas
market in Europe, please do. It's just fascinating. And Santa Con,
I think we can make an argument Santa Con is
not inherently a bad thing, but as it grows, as
(17:52):
it becomes a franchise and a global tradition. We see
more Santa's equal more problems. It's currently spread to forty
four different countries across the planet, and we talked about
the metropols like New York, London, also Vancouver, Belfast, Moscow.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
They do it in our humble metropolis of Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yes, yes, and I'm going to be honest with everybody,
I actually avoid it.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, it's much maligned if you haven't gotten the hint
of where it's heading. It has become quite the quite
the problematic event.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
After that first trip to the Big Apple, John Law
was thinking we should just pull the plug on this thing.
But it was too late. Already it already caught fire, right,
and it took on a life of its own. It
morphed into less of an anti consumerism thing and more
(18:55):
into like a frat, energy, booze and drug focused public party.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, it's true. It's basically just an excuse to cause trouble.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
And get wasted in public.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, and this is where we see some of the
earliest controversy because people in New York and people in
other cities where this becomes a regular event had taken
to hiding indoors, to literally quarantining themselves until the madness
(19:29):
was over. There's a great quote from The New York
Times writing about this in twenty thirteen, and they say
it's a holiday that actual New Yorkers hate.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, that's true, Ben, and I actually witnessed some of
this myself by accident a couple months ago, when I
found myself in Midtown Manhattan during Saint Patrick's Day and
I was just like, goodness, this is like Marty Grass here.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
It really really was.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
New Yorkers have long endured other people's celebrations on Saint
Patrick's Day. They noticed day out of the pubs in
Midtown if they do not want to be overwhelmed in
a sea of semi conscious green.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
So these kind of like public.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Drunken revelry type events are already wearing thin on people's patients.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Did I hear in New York? Yeah? Did I ever
tell you guys about the time I accidentally ended up
in Savannah, Georgia during Saint Patrick's Day. It was not
my best adventure.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
People really loved Saint Patrick's Day and Savannah as well.
And it's apparently quite the quite the quite the show
I often hear here. I often hear of things like
this being referred to as amateur hour.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yes, yeah, I was on River Street and a fight
broke out at this restaurant that was basically a bar
at that point, and a guy pulled a knife and
then yelled something about Saint Patrick and then walked outside
(20:58):
and the cops got them. It was a very strange occasion.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
There was going to be a rumble.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Well, there were a lot of flying stools. But anyway,
as we're saying in New York Times, the quote continues,
they being the New Yorkers avoid driving into Manhattan at
all costs during the Puerto Rican Day Parade because it
turns the heart of the borough into a vast parking lot.
Fashions night out is an occasion to stay in if
(21:24):
you live in Soho. And New Year's Eve to our
earlier point, guys, amateur hour, Yeah, in less than out
of town visitor drags native kicking and screaming into Times Square.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I won't even watch it on TV. It's triggering.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
No, no, yeah, I look, I'm no judgment anywhere to anybody.
But we think it's cool to use actual bathrooms instead
of streets or diapers.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Well, we're going to get to that because that definitely
becomes a feature of Santa Claus. So now we've got
a new contender emerging for the New York Times for
the event that many New Yorkers most love to hate,
and that is Santa Con. They note that it's really
just become kind of a massive pub crawl with no
particular leadership, no sign in, no tickets issued, a secret
(22:15):
route that isn't really revealed until the last minute to
keep the you know, the cops off the scent, as
well as something that you refer to here in the
notes here as the anti Santy's which may well be
a contingent that's starting to emerge in New York.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, and in Santa CON's defense, they've always had two
very simple rules. One dress up, wear some kind of costume,
and two don't make kids cry.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
You know what I mean, Like imagine the Typically they're
more often than not breaking the second rule.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
If they're breaking any of I think you're right, But
why is santav Santa's nose?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Right? Mom? Why doesn't Santa wear pants? So despite this
wholesome beginning, Santa Con is getting a reputation problem. You
would see local activism in New York especially where people
would print and distribute flyers in advance of Santa Con
(23:16):
and they would say stuff like alcohols soaked Father, Christmas
themed flash mob, not welcome here, take your bodily fluids
and public intoxication elsewhere.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
For sure, bodily fluids being key.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
A lot of instances of public urination, people you know,
vomiting in the streets, groping women.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Just absolute.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I think I used this word recently chic Canary Canary then.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, chicanery noll for sure. I mean police in Hell's Kitchen,
which was still kind of a tough neighborhood at the time,
they would send letters to people who owned restaurants and
bars and they would say, please look, if someone's dressed
as Santa and you know they've had enough to drink,
(24:08):
don't overserve them. One guy, we got to shout out.
Police lieutenant at the time, John Kochie said, having thousands
of intoxicated party goers roam the streets urinating, littering, vomiting
and vandalizing will not be tolerated in our neighborhood. I
just love I can't escape it. I know why people
(24:32):
have a problem with it, but guys, I cannot escape
the concept of how epic this would be. As a
movie that takes place one night and there's someone who
gets roped into Santa Coln.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I'd be interesting. I could see that. Yeah, sort of
bad Santa. We already have that, But that's not quite
the same. It has to be on mass and has
to be just like a fly on the wall that
gets sort of absorbed into the Santa hive and really quickly.
I'd like to walk back my use so she canary.
The word I was actually looking for was debauchery. Canary
is a great word, but it more refers to the
use of clever tricks and subterfuge in order to manipulate
(25:09):
folks to their own ends, which is not what these
Santas are doing at all.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Because I don't have their wits about them.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It is utter debauchery and Bachanalian fiasco in those streets.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Agreed and great note they are debauched for sure, and
locals like imagine you live in one of the neighborhoods
that gets absolutely rollicked by Santa cod you're a local,
You're probably worried about your children, if you have them,
you probably want to stay inside, and you know full
(25:41):
well that no matter what the organizers say, they have
no control over. The participants will be peeing in the streets, littering, puking,
as said, groping people. There were arrest every single year.
And what is you know, fundamentally problematic about this is
it's not Santa behavior, It's not cannon.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No, Santa's jolly, but he's not drunk. I mean, I'm
sure he loves a sip of schnapps, you know, along
with the best of them. But like the guy, he
keeps his wits about him. Think of all he has
to accomplish and such a short amount of time, he's
got to be sharp, he's got to be locked in.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, in the Marvel universe, he's officially, you know, Omega
level mutant, which is the highest level of mutant. I'm
fun at parties, no, No, but not as Santa Con
because I've never been. I don't have plans to go.
(26:39):
One of the co creators later said, look, the original
Santa Con was awesome. You see somebody wake up from
this zombie like thing into beat me here, Max. Holy shit,
there's something going on around here that I can't account
for it. The original Santa Con created a send of
(27:00):
wonder they were being silly and stupid, and I think
that's where things were wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Well, that's right, because we started to see the lines
being blurred where when alcohol gets added to the equation,
it's real easy for things to go from good, clean.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Fun to you know, crime doing crimes.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
The creators were increasingly frustrated with this kind of bastardization
of their original idea, which was more about kind of
sticking it to the man and the theater of the absurd,
and essentially it had become just an excuse to drink
in public for public intoxication and bad behavior, so they
(27:41):
more or less began to distance themselves from it. However,
the adventure still continue because, as we know, sometimes when
things take on a life of their own, the original
creator's intent no longer really matters.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, which is perhaps the greatest crime of all. One
person's fun haying maybe another person's actual crime saying. The
adventures continue, Santa Coon's reputation worsens over time. The organizers
typically remained anonymous, but they were doing their best to
(28:13):
tamp down the outcry from the public and the chaos
from the participants. If we fast forward a little bit,
then we get to twenty twenty five where we see
a phenomenal documentary called Santa Con.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, in a burst of creativity, I would say it, Ben,
but you know what, it gets the job done.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
We know what it's about.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
So this guy Seth Porgy's who is the creator of
the film, sums up the problem of pranks versus problematic
behavior is pretty elegantly when he had this to say,
random absurdism, as we were mentioning before, was the point.
But within the random absurdism, we all can put our
own message into it, our own interpretation, our own feelings
(28:59):
about this thing, and unearthed something within all of us.
I think the implication here is that some of the
things that get unearthed are kind of dark.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah to someone saying this is why we can't have
nice things, Max, can we get you to say that
on air so we can use it as a meme later.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
This is why we can't have nice things?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Oh, phenomenal step aside Shakespeare, that's Max Williams. Can we
do Max with the facts.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
We must seeking in the phone? And he's fallen knowledge
it's just for you right now? The fact.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
I mean, that's gonna be the second one of this
episode already.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Well, then definitely not.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
We have time for one more recent controversy. Uh Santa
con haters, and there are many. We're thrilled as heck
by the newest Chris Kringle scandal. I occurred just last month,
as we are recording here at the end of May.
Courtesy of the Guardian. This comes to us Stephen pil
(30:05):
Day's p I LDEs I'm not sure I pronounce the
last name, is the organizer of Santa Klow in New
York City got arrested no for allegedly using hundreds of
thousands of dollars from charity donations for himself.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
We may have buried the lead on that just ever
so slightly, because I think most of these santacom gatherings
are marketed as being for charity, yes, which adds a
whole other kind of layer of kind of grossness to
them when you consider what they end up becoming. But
now we have absolute confirmation that, yeah, something's definitely rotten
in the North Pole.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Oh. I like that man, At least in one I
was just saying, Oh, no, I love it man, I
think it's perfect. This guy repeatedly said all the proceeds
like you were saying, no, go to charity. I don't
get any money from Santa Con or anything related to it.
No producer receives any income from this event. But it
(31:10):
turns out the courts don't think that is true. The
guy took some extravagant vacations, he went to some really
nice places, and Santa Con events generated something like two
point seven million dollars from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
And that'll buy you a lot of milk and cookies.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, I'll get your shops as well. I imagine, keep you
in the lure. The Feds, the federal prosecutors, i should say,
alleged that this individual took the money and donated only
a small fraction of it to charity, which is why
we all have to remember to be very I'm not
(31:52):
going to say cynical, but folks, just be aware when
you donate to something and it says a portion of
the pro proceeeds go to charity, trust but verify, trust, verify.
Shout out to Ronny. This is who Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Oh, yes, of course, of course, ron Well, Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Oh yes, ron Well. Perfect. They have folks, this is
the story of Santa Con.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
So far.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
It might sound ridiculous for a bunch of people to
dress up like characters from folklore and then party, but
I at least have to be very transparent glass house
about this because I went to Renaissance Fair or Renaissance Festival.
It had an amazing time, and you guys, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
A great hang, you know, and where would we be
without events involving dressing up in funny costumes, giving you know,
praise to some unseen spiritual force and you know, getting
totally wasted.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, So basically what religion is, well, what happens next
to Santakon? Will it become a religion? Will it be
a historical footnote? Before we end, we got to give
the last word to our phenomenal documentarian we mentioned earlier.
Our filmmaker says, everything changes for me. The big takeaway
from the movie is how, rather than allowing themselves to
(33:13):
be upset and angry that their creation has changed so much,
the owners have just accepted the fact that it's okay
that it isn't for them anymore. And side note our
documentarian here, he originally wanted to make a hit piece
on Santa Con and then he fell in love with it.
Over the course of filming, and he said, Hey, maybe
(33:36):
being silly and stupid isn't that bad after all.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, I don't think we're saying that it's bad, that
being silly and stupid is bad, but I think we
do perhaps come down on the slightly more negative side
when it comes to just absolute public intoxication and acting like,
you know, a bit of it.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Like a pill.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I'm just so worried about the kids.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, think of the kids. That's seriously, this is how
you want them to find out.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
That is how you want them to find out. We
can't wait to hear your thought. Shout out to all
the Santa fans in the crowd. I'm saying it like
it's one.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Word or the anti Sandy contingent that is out there
trying to you know, fight fight crime. What if the
Santa con folks actually like banded together and became like
the Foot Clan or something like that.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
That'd be cool, That'd be pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
And then you had the anti Sandy contingent out there,
you know, trying to put a stop to their devisive shenanigans.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
The phrase anti Sandy is clearly going to be stuck
in both of our heads. For the rest.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
It's true, and I blame you, and no, you know what,
I credit you.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. We've got to
also credit our super producer, Max the Freight Train Williams. Max,
when did you learn that Santa Claus is kind of
a conspiracy?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
About twenty minutes ago?
Speaker 4 (34:57):
This is how you find out.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
I just remember finding a skateboard in my parents' closet
and I knew something was a miss And that was
last week too.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Now I'm an evil older brother. So Alex, as soon
as Alex found out that Chris Santa wasn't real, he
made sure I knew that Santa wasn't real.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Shout out to our composer by the way of segues there,
Alex Williams. He made this slap and bop you're hearing
at the end.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Chris frosciotis Naves, jeffco here in Spirit, Jonathan Strickland The
Quiz to A J Bahamas Jacobs.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
The Puzzler, Doctor, Rachel Big Spinach Lance, as well as
the rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us,
you will love them. So Hie thee to my favorite
podcast platform of choice, and uh, we're gonna end this
episode with some Friday energy nol. I've got to look
(35:51):
up santi costumes. Let's see, they can't be that expensive.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Now, right, No, they're twelve dollars. We said so earlier.
Maybe with you know, accounting for inflation, maybe they're now.
And it depends on the quality. You're right, the price
of alure could well have taken a spike along with
the price of gas.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Updates to continue.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
We'll see you next time. Books.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Ho, thank you so much
as always for tuning in. We are back in a
ridiculous typical history fashion. We are indeed doing a Christmas
episode here with Belseemer Yes with Bells on with Mule
Tide Lads, Christmas in June. That is none other than
(00:49):
our own super producer Max the Frey Train Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I think we might even be a month early for
an unseasonable Christmas discussion. Wouldn't that typically be Christmas in July? Yeah,
that would be the cliche. Soil boy, we just can't
get it right. We're gonna get it right.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
We released the Leapier episode on the Leapier.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh that's a guys, Hey, guys, we uh, we're just
ahead of the curve.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
That's what we'll say is that this is what they in.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
The industry call it tent pole episode.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Ben I think I've talked on the podcast definitely Off
Mike with you about my recent rediscovery of the Birthday Boys,
the sketch comedy show. They do a sketch called September Santa,
where as Santa Claus comes to the window during September
and instead of saying ho ho ho, he says hoo hoo,
who It's September Santa, and he gives everyone a pencil and.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
It's really underwhelming. And that's sort of the joke.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
And that is Noel Brown. Oh, Ben Bullet.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
We're very on September Santa.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh we are. We are talking Santa Claus, Chris, if
you're listening. We're big fans. We've we've talked in the
past about how Political Cartoonist and the Coca Cola company
created the image we associate with that magical elf today.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Hell, we talked about it in our recent discussion of
New Coke.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
We sure did. You can't get away from it. You've
probably also heard our explorations of Crampis, who I like
to think of as the sith Lord to Santa's Jedi.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I like to overpronounce it because I always once, as
you know, a small German boy.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
We talked about the Yule Tide Lads, a rogues gallery
of mischief making scamps with swiperd Yeah, with extremely weird,
action oriented names, very strange.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
You know, it would be sick Ben to get an
action figure set of the Mule Lads, each with their
own you know, articulatable move like what is it meat
hook something liquor sniffer, window liquor, window liquers at twin
song to one.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Of the things. So maybe maybe that uh, maybe maybe
that doll's head opens and has a big tongue that
flicks up and down.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I just really, you know, who else has a big
tongue flicks having down his carampoos? But I just realized,
Ben that the AFX twin song window lickor may well
be a reference to the Mule Lads. But we're talking
weird fetishization of Santa Claus today.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, we'd think if you had.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Like a furry con, a furry convention or one of
those kind of swinger festivals. But everyone dressed up as
Santa Claus. And look, this is not me throwing the
furry community under the bus. I know it's not all
about weird hotel sex. I know there's a lot of
layers to the furry life, but Santa con Man weirdly
horny and drunk.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, the folks, we're coming to you live from the
United States of America. A pretty popular experiment for a
few centuries. This country in particular has conventions and parties
and gatherings for darn near everything. Santa Claus is no exception.
As Noel said, we're talking Santa Con. It's high notes,
(04:22):
its history, its controversy, and perhaps most ridiculously, why some
people are gonna tell you it's the worst thing ever.
I don't know. Noel Key, take us to California in
nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I would love to ben California circa nineteen ninety four
one of my very favorite eras, so join us when
Santa Cohn officially takes root thanks to a guy named
John Law and his buddies Rob Schmidt and Chris Radcliffe.
This is the sort of the modern version of the
con as we know it. However, it's inspiration or these lads.
(05:02):
Inspiration dates even farther back to the nineteen seventies, when
a Danish theater group known as Solvagnin decided to get
a little tricksy and hatch a prank.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, so they had dozens of actors in their crew
dress as Santa in Copenhagen and these ooh, I have
it wrong. In the notes, I have these Satans. It's
these Santas. They stand around this department store, they grab
items off the shelf and then they had them to
(05:35):
unsuspecting innocent customers as Christmas presents.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
This is anarchy personified ben They're basically shoplifting.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
They're stealing from the rich and giving to the poor
sort of kind of.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's a bit of performance art, right, an anti corporate
protest masquerading as sort of a flash mob slash bit
of performance.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Art improv everywhere style. Right. So the folks that we
just mentioned there a second ago, they are inspired by
an article they read in Mother Jones about this this
group and this prank squad called the Cacophony Society. They
(06:19):
launch Santa Con. Originally they called it Santarcy.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Right, like I was saying earlier, Total anarchy, chaos.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
You gotta love that.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And they know how to get up to some shenanigans
in Copenhagen. So in the first year, thirty four folks
participated in this event, wearing Santa suits, marching through the
streets of the Golden Gates City aka San Francisco. I
don't call it San Frana the locals and make funny
they crash hot.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Oh boy, you know what isn't it funny?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Though? Been the no matter how cool people are that
we hang with, they always think that we'll think that
that's fun or cool.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I'm always blown away.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
We're hanging with like very in the no people, and
they always say hot Lanta to us, as if that's
supposed to like, you know, be cute.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
But it's right, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, but it's kind of like some Uh, it's kind
of like an American who goes to Dublin and expects
everybody to be amazed that their grandparents were Irish.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, or orders an Irish car bomb.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
No, oh gosh, that's one to grow on folks. Don't
do it.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
No, definitely don't do it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
If anyone doesn't know that is that is actually a
pretty popular it used to be drink here in the
States where I think it is a shot of Bailey's dropped.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Into Irish Irish whiskey, so it's half Bailey's half Irish whiskey,
so lo like at Jambison or a totalim or do
you drop it into like a half half pint.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Of half pints and it's actually pretty good, but.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It tastes like chocolate milk. But yeah, incredibly offensive.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Well, you see, folks, Max, Nolan and I used to
be cool. We used to party.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
We were never hear something, I'm cool now that I
don't party.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
We were.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I am. I am definitely cool now that now that
I don't party. But I was never cool.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
All right, Well check out our earlier when.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I were in the hot tub together.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Oh boy, the hot tub times. Max, take me back
to the hot tub times.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
We can do it again, buddy, you can bring Ben
this time to think.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
I think it's time. I think hard passed.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No man, Matt, Matt and his partner and I were
in hot tub together just recently.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Well, Dan, now I feel as out.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You were there.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
You just went off and did your own thing at Bahamar's.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, it was party, and we were not We were
not dressed as Santa I was definitely not invited either. Noel,
don't feel bad.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Uh, we invite it too.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Ell, y'all were invited.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I think the invitation was implied. All are welcome in
Max's hot tub parties.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
And these folks, not Max and Nole, these folks who
launched Santa Cod are trying to not create crime. Necessarily,
they're crashing elite parties. Their co founders said they wanted
to just shock people and put them into a different reality.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
They're just out there rebel rousing up to some mischief,
but all good clean fun. Like you said, Ben, they
weren't like doing vandalism or breaking and entering. So it
was originally supposed to be kind of a mockery of
how offensively consumerist Christmas ultimately became and continues to be.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
So there came this moment when the organizers realized that
there might.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Be something bigger going on here than just a one
off kind of prank. The Coffee Society decided they would
restage the event the next year, at which point more
than one hundred participants signed up. And then we started
to see a handful of arrests as these Santas began
to imbibe perhaps a little more openly.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, they got jolly on the streets, is the way
I put it. They're pretty South Santa's And I had
a side note on the research for this. You guys,
is San Francisco a pepsi town or a Coca Cola.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Tow It's definitely a cocaine town, is that true? Well,
I mean back in these days it probably was. Certainly
in the sixties. But that's a good.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Question, Matt. I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I tend to think of West Coast as being more
Coca Cola. I think of pepsi as being more of
a mid Middle America thing. But honestly, I seem to
recall being seeing more Coke products.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Let's see, you'll have to let us know, folks. This
this thing anyway, it's called Santa Con from its original
Bethlehem in San Francisco. It franchises out to Portland. In
nineteen ninety six. Police meet the Santa Con fans and
(11:12):
they suspect for some reason that these jolly revelers may
be terrorists, so they hit them up with full on
riot gear.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
By the way, San Francisco is definitely a Coca Cola town.
It would have most of the restaurants, stadiums, and chain
type establishments.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Have contracts with Coke.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I love you guys for.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Their fountain drinks.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I love you guys. Seafood soup too. What's it called ciappino?
Something like that?
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Like a chowda?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, it's like a tomato based a tomato. Eachouda chowda.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Jump in here as well. Oracle Park, which is the
Athe and T Park, which is the giant stadium right
on the bay, has a giant Coca Cola bottle advertisement
in the outfield. I was actually I got suggestion from
Reddit to find out which side of the argument you're on.
Just whatever, So do they serve at your baseball stadium?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
That's who's winning the Oh yeah, that would that would
be a pretty good canary in the soda col mine.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
And we've confirmed that Max Williams is on Reddit.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Was there ever any death of that one?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
We know that after nineteen ninety six. The next year,
nineteen ninety seven, Santa Quauan expanded to Seattle. By nineteen
ninety eight, it's in Los Angeles and New York. And
each step of its expansion to your earlier point, NOL,
it became less of a protest against consumerism and more
(12:43):
an excuse for people to just cause play and party.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
There is something kind of funny. You see it in
like comedies of the typically of the eighties, where they'll
be like some dude playing Santa at a you know
what do you call it, like an apartment store or
some kind of Christmas party, and inevitably ends up getting wasted.
There is just something about the image of the slovenly
(13:09):
hobo Santa, Yes, for lack of a better term, that
has kind of persevered, So I get what they were
going for with this. However, it did seem to balloon
a little bit out of control. The Village Voice had
this to say when John Law decided to bring Santacon
to New York City in nineteen ninety eight, referring to
as a situation where a San Franciscan strapped on a
(13:30):
fake white beard, donned a twelve dollars red suit, and
led two hundred Santas as they went caroling up Fifth
Avenue in Manhattan. During their joyful march uptown, throngs of
bustling New Yorkers and tourists paused to gauk at the
sea of Redfeldt and Vlure. A police officer yelled, Hey, Santa,
can you get me a date with Cindy Crawford?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
And I'm walking here. It's so New York. I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So it seems like this guy was sort of charmed
by it. It's a village voice being a bit of
a you know, snarky rag, So it doesn't seem like
the ultimate implications had become.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Clear yet where this was heading in New York.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, Initially it was just a fun thing for you
to see in the city, right, and you would say,
you know, hey, Santa, you're walking there. These folks weren't
breaking stuff. They were strolling around public areas, they were
climbing on public statues, they were singing loud Christmas songs,
(14:29):
and ultimately they were just a bunch of red suited scamps.
They had their the lure and they would be they
would be partying. I'm going to be honest, I think
they were probably using drugs. Not to sound too much
like a square, but they were peaceful. So whenever local
security came up to them and said, hey guys, you're
(14:51):
all dressed like Santa, and you were all clearly not
able to drive.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
So it was probably the kindly Irish cop that said
moving along, fellows moving a law.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Right, They complied, and the Santa said ho, ho will go.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
They left. It was pretty wholesome. It seemed like everyone,
even unto the police and the security guards to your
earlier point, was having a bit of fun with it.
One of the coolest examples of this comes from John
Law himself.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, Johnny Law himself were called a particular moment of
inspiration where the Santas wandered in their throng into Central Park,
where they found a crowd of ice skaters reveling on
a frozen pond. This the Santas yelled at them, Merry Christmas,
and the skaters screamed back cheers of appreciation and you know, jubilants.
(15:48):
It was just, you know, a lovely moment. They were appreciated.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
This was a really cool moment for john and Law.
He says that he hated Christmas ever since he was
nine years old and learned that everybody spoilers three to one.
If you are under nine years old, turn off the
podcast now three two. What he learned that Santa is
not real.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
And he's real if you believe he's real in your heart.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Sure. There were probably two hundred of them getting drunk
later this year, very real, he says. He says, later,
I almost started crying. I stopped hating Christmas. Then that
was the beginning of my existential life. I thought Christmas
was belowney and everything we're told is a lie. All
the companies are just trying to sell you stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Ah, they say the Johnny Law's heart grew three sizes
that day. This is some real grants you still Christmas
Catharsis year. That's when Law really truly felt the power
of Christmas as a symbol and he realized, and this
(16:58):
is in his words, people just want to feel warm
and fuzzy and they just want to join together beauty.
I couldn't agree more. I mean, if there's anything I
like about Christmas, it is that very aspect. And I'm
not like super against the commercialism.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Of it, you know whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I'm a bit of a shopper, but I do enjoy
the decorations, especially in a place like New York where
there feels like there's magic in the air. I'm a
sucker for that stuff. And it's mainly because of the
things that he's describing here, that kind of community quality.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Dude, Asia does Christmas amazing. It's boggers, you know. And
if you get a chance to check out a Christmas
market in Europe, please do. It's just fascinating. And Santa Con,
I think we can make an argument Santa Con is
not inherently a bad thing, but as it grows, as
(17:52):
it becomes a franchise and a global tradition. We see
more Santa's equal more problems. It's currently spread to forty
four different countries across the planet, and we talked about
the metropols like New York, London, also Vancouver, Belfast, Moscow.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
They do it in our humble metropolis of Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yes, yes, and I'm going to be honest with everybody,
I actually avoid it.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, it's much maligned if you haven't gotten the hint
of where it's heading. It has become quite the quite
the problematic event.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
After that first trip to the Big Apple, John Law
was thinking we should just pull the plug on this thing.
But it was too late. Already it already caught fire, right,
and it took on a life of its own. It
morphed into less of an anti consumerism thing and more
(18:55):
into like a frat, energy, booze and drug focused public party.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, it's true. It's basically just an excuse to cause trouble.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
And get wasted in public.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, and this is where we see some of the
earliest controversy because people in New York and people in
other cities where this becomes a regular event had taken
to hiding indoors, to literally quarantining themselves until the madness
(19:29):
was over. There's a great quote from The New York
Times writing about this in twenty thirteen, and they say
it's a holiday that actual New Yorkers hate.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, that's true, Ben, and I actually witnessed some of
this myself by accident a couple months ago, when I
found myself in Midtown Manhattan during Saint Patrick's Day and
I was just like, goodness, this is like Marty Grass here.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
It really really was.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
New Yorkers have long endured other people's celebrations on Saint
Patrick's Day. They noticed day out of the pubs in
Midtown if they do not want to be overwhelmed in
a sea of semi conscious green.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
So these kind of like public.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Drunken revelry type events are already wearing thin on people's patients.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Did I hear in New York? Yeah? Did I ever
tell you guys about the time I accidentally ended up
in Savannah, Georgia during Saint Patrick's Day. It was not
my best adventure.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
People really loved Saint Patrick's Day and Savannah as well.
And it's apparently quite the quite the quite the show
I often hear here. I often hear of things like
this being referred to as amateur hour.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yes, yeah, I was on River Street and a fight
broke out at this restaurant that was basically a bar
at that point, and a guy pulled a knife and
then yelled something about Saint Patrick and then walked outside
(20:58):
and the cops got them. It was a very strange occasion.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
There was going to be a rumble.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Well, there were a lot of flying stools. But anyway,
as we're saying in New York Times, the quote continues,
they being the New Yorkers avoid driving into Manhattan at
all costs during the Puerto Rican Day Parade because it
turns the heart of the borough into a vast parking lot.
Fashions night out is an occasion to stay in if
(21:24):
you live in Soho. And New Year's Eve to our
earlier point, guys, amateur hour, Yeah, in less than out
of town visitor drags native kicking and screaming into Times Square.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I won't even watch it on TV. It's triggering.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
No, no, yeah, I look, I'm no judgment anywhere to anybody.
But we think it's cool to use actual bathrooms instead
of streets or diapers.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Well, we're going to get to that because that definitely
becomes a feature of Santa Claus. So now we've got
a new contender emerging for the New York Times for
the event that many New Yorkers most love to hate,
and that is Santa Con. They note that it's really
just become kind of a massive pub crawl with no
particular leadership, no sign in, no tickets issued, a secret
(22:15):
route that isn't really revealed until the last minute to
keep the you know, the cops off the scent, as
well as something that you refer to here in the
notes here as the anti Santy's which may well be
a contingent that's starting to emerge in New York.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, and in Santa CON's defense, they've always had two
very simple rules. One dress up, wear some kind of costume,
and two don't make kids cry.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
You know what I mean, Like imagine the Typically they're
more often than not breaking the second rule.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
If they're breaking any of I think you're right, But
why is santav Santa's nose?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Right? Mom? Why doesn't Santa wear pants? So despite this
wholesome beginning, Santa Con is getting a reputation problem. You
would see local activism in New York especially where people
would print and distribute flyers in advance of Santa Con
(23:16):
and they would say stuff like alcohols soaked Father, Christmas
themed flash mob, not welcome here, take your bodily fluids
and public intoxication elsewhere.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
For sure, bodily fluids being key.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
A lot of instances of public urination, people you know,
vomiting in the streets, groping women.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Just absolute.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I think I used this word recently chic Canary Canary then.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, chicanery noll for sure. I mean police in Hell's Kitchen,
which was still kind of a tough neighborhood at the time,
they would send letters to people who owned restaurants and
bars and they would say, please look, if someone's dressed
as Santa and you know they've had enough to drink,
(24:08):
don't overserve them. One guy, we got to shout out.
Police lieutenant at the time, John Kochie said, having thousands
of intoxicated party goers roam the streets urinating, littering, vomiting
and vandalizing will not be tolerated in our neighborhood. I
just love I can't escape it. I know why people
(24:32):
have a problem with it, but guys, I cannot escape
the concept of how epic this would be. As a
movie that takes place one night and there's someone who
gets roped into Santa Coln.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I'd be interesting. I could see that. Yeah, sort of
bad Santa. We already have that, But that's not quite
the same. It has to be on mass and has
to be just like a fly on the wall that
gets sort of absorbed into the Santa hive and really quickly.
I'd like to walk back my use so she canary.
The word I was actually looking for was debauchery. Canary
is a great word, but it more refers to the
use of clever tricks and subterfuge in order to manipulate
(25:09):
folks to their own ends, which is not what these
Santas are doing at all.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Because I don't have their wits about them.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It is utter debauchery and Bachanalian fiasco in those streets.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Agreed and great note they are debauched for sure, and
locals like imagine you live in one of the neighborhoods
that gets absolutely rollicked by Santa cod you're a local,
You're probably worried about your children, if you have them,
you probably want to stay inside, and you know full
(25:41):
well that no matter what the organizers say, they have
no control over. The participants will be peeing in the streets, littering, puking,
as said, groping people. There were arrest every single year.
And what is you know, fundamentally problematic about this is
it's not Santa behavior, It's not cannon.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No, Santa's jolly, but he's not drunk. I mean, I'm
sure he loves a sip of schnapps, you know, along
with the best of them. But like the guy, he
keeps his wits about him. Think of all he has
to accomplish and such a short amount of time, he's
got to be sharp, he's got to be locked in.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, in the Marvel universe, he's officially, you know, Omega
level mutant, which is the highest level of mutant. I'm
fun at parties, no, No, but not as Santa Con
because I've never been. I don't have plans to go.
(26:39):
One of the co creators later said, look, the original
Santa Con was awesome. You see somebody wake up from
this zombie like thing into beat me here, Max. Holy shit,
there's something going on around here that I can't account
for it. The original Santa Con created a send of
(27:00):
wonder they were being silly and stupid, and I think
that's where things were wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Well, that's right, because we started to see the lines
being blurred where when alcohol gets added to the equation,
it's real easy for things to go from good, clean.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Fun to you know, crime doing crimes.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
The creators were increasingly frustrated with this kind of bastardization
of their original idea, which was more about kind of
sticking it to the man and the theater of the absurd,
and essentially it had become just an excuse to drink
in public for public intoxication and bad behavior, so they
(27:41):
more or less began to distance themselves from it. However,
the adventure still continue because, as we know, sometimes when
things take on a life of their own, the original
creator's intent no longer really matters.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, which is perhaps the greatest crime of all. One
person's fun haying maybe another person's actual crime saying. The
adventures continue, Santa Coon's reputation worsens over time. The organizers
typically remained anonymous, but they were doing their best to
(28:13):
tamp down the outcry from the public and the chaos
from the participants. If we fast forward a little bit,
then we get to twenty twenty five where we see
a phenomenal documentary called Santa Con.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, in a burst of creativity, I would say it, Ben,
but you know what, it gets the job done.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
We know what it's about.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
So this guy Seth Porgy's who is the creator of
the film, sums up the problem of pranks versus problematic
behavior is pretty elegantly when he had this to say,
random absurdism, as we were mentioning before, was the point.
But within the random absurdism, we all can put our
own message into it, our own interpretation, our own feelings
(28:59):
about this thing, and unearthed something within all of us.
I think the implication here is that some of the
things that get unearthed are kind of dark.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah to someone saying this is why we can't have
nice things, Max, can we get you to say that
on air so we can use it as a meme later.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
This is why we can't have nice things?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Oh, phenomenal step aside Shakespeare, that's Max Williams. Can we
do Max with the facts.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
We must seeking in the phone? And he's fallen knowledge
it's just for you right now? The fact.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
I mean, that's gonna be the second one of this
episode already.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Well, then definitely not.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
We have time for one more recent controversy. Uh Santa
con haters, and there are many. We're thrilled as heck
by the newest Chris Kringle scandal. I occurred just last month,
as we are recording here at the end of May.
Courtesy of the Guardian. This comes to us Stephen pil
(30:05):
Day's p I LDEs I'm not sure I pronounce the
last name, is the organizer of Santa Klow in New
York City got arrested no for allegedly using hundreds of
thousands of dollars from charity donations for himself.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
We may have buried the lead on that just ever
so slightly, because I think most of these santacom gatherings
are marketed as being for charity, yes, which adds a
whole other kind of layer of kind of grossness to
them when you consider what they end up becoming. But
now we have absolute confirmation that, yeah, something's definitely rotten
in the North Pole.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Oh. I like that man, At least in one I
was just saying, Oh, no, I love it man, I
think it's perfect. This guy repeatedly said all the proceeds
like you were saying, no, go to charity. I don't
get any money from Santa Con or anything related to it.
No producer receives any income from this event. But it
(31:10):
turns out the courts don't think that is true. The
guy took some extravagant vacations, he went to some really
nice places, and Santa Con events generated something like two
point seven million dollars from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
And that'll buy you a lot of milk and cookies.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, I'll get your shops as well. I imagine, keep you
in the lure. The Feds, the federal prosecutors, i should say,
alleged that this individual took the money and donated only
a small fraction of it to charity, which is why
we all have to remember to be very I'm not
(31:52):
going to say cynical, but folks, just be aware when
you donate to something and it says a portion of
the pro proceeeds go to charity, trust but verify, trust, verify.
Shout out to Ronny. This is who Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Oh, yes, of course, of course, ron Well, Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Oh yes, ron Well. Perfect. They have folks, this is
the story of Santa Con.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
So far.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
It might sound ridiculous for a bunch of people to
dress up like characters from folklore and then party, but
I at least have to be very transparent glass house
about this because I went to Renaissance Fair or Renaissance Festival.
It had an amazing time, and you guys, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
A great hang, you know, and where would we be
without events involving dressing up in funny costumes, giving you know,
praise to some unseen spiritual force and you know, getting
totally wasted.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, So basically what religion is, well, what happens next
to Santakon? Will it become a religion? Will it be
a historical footnote? Before we end, we got to give
the last word to our phenomenal documentarian we mentioned earlier.
Our filmmaker says, everything changes for me. The big takeaway
from the movie is how, rather than allowing themselves to
(33:13):
be upset and angry that their creation has changed so much,
the owners have just accepted the fact that it's okay
that it isn't for them anymore. And side note our
documentarian here, he originally wanted to make a hit piece
on Santa Con and then he fell in love with it.
Over the course of filming, and he said, Hey, maybe
(33:36):
being silly and stupid isn't that bad after all.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, I don't think we're saying that it's bad, that
being silly and stupid is bad, but I think we
do perhaps come down on the slightly more negative side
when it comes to just absolute public intoxication and acting like,
you know, a bit of it.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Like a pill.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I'm just so worried about the kids.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, think of the kids. That's seriously, this is how
you want them to find out.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
That is how you want them to find out. We
can't wait to hear your thought. Shout out to all
the Santa fans in the crowd. I'm saying it like
it's one.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Word or the anti Sandy contingent that is out there
trying to you know, fight fight crime. What if the
Santa con folks actually like banded together and became like
the Foot Clan or something like that.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
That'd be cool, That'd be pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
And then you had the anti Sandy contingent out there,
you know, trying to put a stop to their devisive shenanigans.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
The phrase anti Sandy is clearly going to be stuck
in both of our heads. For the rest.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
It's true, and I blame you, and no, you know what,
I credit you.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. We've got to
also credit our super producer, Max the Freight Train Williams. Max,
when did you learn that Santa Claus is kind of
a conspiracy?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
About twenty minutes ago?
Speaker 4 (34:57):
This is how you find out.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
I just remember finding a skateboard in my parents' closet
and I knew something was a miss And that was
last week too.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Now I'm an evil older brother. So Alex, as soon
as Alex found out that Chris Santa wasn't real, he
made sure I knew that Santa wasn't real.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Shout out to our composer by the way of segues there,
Alex Williams. He made this slap and bop you're hearing
at the end.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Chris frosciotis Naves, jeffco here in Spirit, Jonathan Strickland The
Quiz to A J Bahamas Jacobs.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
The Puzzler, Doctor, Rachel Big Spinach Lance, as well as
the rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us,
you will love them. So Hie thee to my favorite
podcast platform of choice, and uh, we're gonna end this
episode with some Friday energy nol. I've got to look
(35:51):
up santi costumes. Let's see, they can't be that expensive.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Now, right, No, they're twelve dollars. We said so earlier.
Maybe with you know, accounting for inflation, maybe they're now.
And it depends on the quality. You're right, the price
of alure could well have taken a spike along with
the price of gas.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Updates to continue.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
We'll see you next time. Books.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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