February 4, 2026 • 45 mins
This liquor, made with rye grain and usually barrel aged, was the most popular in America for a century before it almost died out. But it lives again! Anney and Lauren distill down the science and history of rye whiskey.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm any reci and I'm Lauren Bogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about rye whiskey.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes and drink respond somebody? Yeah always Uh huh yes.
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So we are currently in this early February, in the
midst of carnival season, and rye whiskey is a classic
ingredient in a lot of the cocktails that get featured
around certainly New Orleans and around those traditions of Marti Gras.
(00:50):
So yeah, here we are, here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
And again, Lauren, you've come out swinging with your topic
choices in this new year. Uh, this one was a
lot to wrangle.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's my bad. I'm sorry. Uh. Super interesting.
Uh and if it makes you feel better, historians are
also mad. It's not just us. Yeah, we're in good company. No,
that does make me feel better.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Uh. Well, you can see our past episodes that we
did on Bourbon.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I would say, yeah, sure, definitely Bourbon, maybe Scotch for
a little bit of like the European history, maybe some
of our German Beer episodes like Schwarzbier or I always
say it wrong on Joltson. I think I'm getting closer
but still doing it wrong anyway. Uh yeah, those and
then yeah, like our New Orleans Cocktails episode, also the
(01:55):
Sasarak and the Manhattan Yeah, I think, yeah, probably some
others that are going to come up in here. I
think we've got some future offshoots to do too. It's
gonna be great.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Oh, definitely, definitely. And I have to say I do
love Rye whiskey. I always thought I just liked it
because it had like it was a little bit bolder
I don't know, a flavor. Yeah, I think that we
when we did our episode with eighteen twenty one bitters
(02:29):
A used to Rye whiskey and I really.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, really liked that one.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I made that cocktail a lot ooh yeah, nice, it
was nice.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I like a Rye. I like a Rye cocktail. I
kind of just like sipping on a just just a
nice one, just you know, just I mean, I know
that booze is warming, but yeah, it's kind of the
flavor profile is also a little bit warming. It's nice.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
It is it is, which I guess brings us to
our question, Sure, rye whiskey, what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, rye whiskey is a category of liquor made with
rye grain. Depending on legal definitions and personal preferences, you
can make it different ways, but you're typically looking at
a liquor that's like translucent, toasty, golden brown in color,
at least forty percent ABV alcohol by volume, and with
(03:30):
flavors that are dry and ready and spiced like baking, spicy,
with a little bit of maybe vanilla caramel, and maybe
some soft florals or herbs in there. People drink it
straight or over ice or mixed into cocktails, often with
like sweet and fruity elements to brighten it up a
little bit. It's like licking a dusty wooden barrel and
(03:55):
like you think that some of the dust might be sugar,
but like you're not entirely sure.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
It's like that.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
In a fun way.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Surprising, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
But okay, whiskey basics. And when I say basics, I
mean super basic. Like we're not a distillation show, so
there's only so much science I'm getting into today. But
all right, Whiskys are distilled alcohol made from a mix
of grains like wheat, corn, barley, and rye yes, rye uh.
You cook the grains with water to form what's called
(04:29):
a mash, then ferment that using yeasts which eat sugars
from the grains and poop alcohol and flavor yeast food.
This creates what's called a distiller's beer, which will be
about nine percent alcohol or so. You then distill out
the alcohol and flavors that you want by heating that
(04:49):
beer to the point where those things that you want
evaporate out and can be collected. You usually age whiskeys
in oak barrels that have been charred on the inside.
Off have been charred on the inside, and during aging
they pick up flavors and colors from the wood and
the char. When you're happy with it, you can bottle it.
(05:10):
Some distillers blend product from different barrels together to adjust
the flavors and or add water to achieve the final
ABV that they want. But yeah, that's whiskey. Yeah it's
probably real obvious once I say it. But every little
bit of this process affects the flavors that you wind
up with and you're finished whiskey. The types and amounts
(05:33):
of grains you use the temperatures that you cook them
at to release their sugars, the yeasts and other microbes
that you use to ferment them, the exact process you
use to distill them, and how you age them. So certainly,
within the category of whiskey, and even within the smaller
category of rye whiskey, you can wind up with products
(05:55):
that taste super different, which is honestly part of the fun. Okay,
The legal definition of rye whisky in the United States
is a product that's made from a mixture of grains
that's at least fifty one percent rye, is aged in
brand new chart oak barrels, and is bottled at at
(06:15):
least forty percent ABV or eighty proof. There are also
regulations about the ABV at distillation at barreling, but it's
kind of in the nitty gritty. The rest of the
grains that you use in a rye whisky can be
whatever you want. Corn and barley are common in American ries,
but wheat, rice, oats, or you know, basically any other
grain can be used to Some distillers use some amount
(06:38):
of malted grains. Malted grains are grains that have been
allowed to germinate like just begin the sprouting process, you know,
so that they start converting some of their starches to sugars,
and then they're dried or kilned to stop that process,
during which there's sometimes toasted or roasted to whatever level
(06:58):
of toaster roast you want. Yeah, flavors. Other terms that
you might see on American rye whiskey bottles include sour mash.
Some rise are made with what's called a sour mash process,
which just means that the distiller keeps a bit of
fermented mash from a previous batch and adds it to
(07:20):
the fresh mash to help kickstart the fermentation process. This
can help a distiller create like a more consistent flavor
across batches, or just to add specific flavors that they like.
Generally speaking, you know, the fresh yeasts you add to
each batch are not the only microbes that are going
to join the party, because you know, microbes live all
(07:43):
around us. Sour mash will contain like your personal microbiome
or your I mean, your distillery is personal microbiome. I
should say. It got the name sour mash probably because
it's like a little bit tart, because there are probably
friendly bacteria in there. That eat sugars and poop assa
bacteria poop. Yeah. Other whiskis can be made with this
(08:04):
hour mash process as well. Then you might see straight
rye on a label. To be labeled straight rye, the
rye whiskey in question has to have no added colors
or flavors, and it has to be aged for at
least two years. If the aging process is less than
four years, you have to say that on the bottle,
(08:24):
meaning that if a bottle labeled straight rye doesn't have
the age on it, it's at least four years old.
Could they have made this more complicated, probably in the
case of whisky blends, that the age on the bottle
is always going to be the age of the youngest
whiskey contained in the blend. Speaking of labels, not everything
(08:48):
called rye is what we're talking about here today. Colloquially,
Canadian whiskies are sometimes called ries regardless of whether they
contain any rye grain at all. This is a historical
nomenclature thing we're going to talk about a little bit
in the history section, although many Canadian whiskies do include
some rye, so there we are. I don't know. Also,
(09:10):
rock and Rye is a type of liqueur that's made
from rye whiskey, rock sugar, and some kind of like
citrus infusion, not quite a rye whiskey. Yeah, but let's
talk a little bit about rye grain, just a little bit,
like a whole episode is forthcoming someday, someday, but okay. Yeah. So,
(09:34):
rye is a type of grain, meaning it's the starchy
seed of a grassy plant. There are many varietals of
rye developed for different characteristics, not all of which concern
food anyway. Rye is related to wheat like closely enough
that the plants can reproduce to form a hybrid. But
rye has some really key differences. Some of those don't
(09:56):
particularly matter for our purposes today, Like like the main
proteins and rye are not glutens, and that's why bread
made with a lot of rye flour tends to be
dense and crumbly, not like fluffy and chewy. Interesting, but
more tour point today. Rye has some cool like bitter
herbal pike in sort of flavors, especially in its germ
(10:20):
and brand, like the outer layers of the seed. Yeah,
it also has more nutrients for fermentation microbes to eat
than wheat does, which doesn't matter that much today, but
like historically, would have made it a great candidate for
making alcohol. Also pertinent to our point today, rye grain
(10:41):
is known for having a high dietary fiber content compared
with other grains, like fifteen to twenty five percent by
dry matter weight, where other grains top out top out
at like under twenty percent. Okay, and you wouldn't think
that that would matter for a liquor. The fiber doesn't
wind up in the liquor, but some of those celluloc
(11:06):
compounds break down to create the spice flavor compounds that
these whiskies are known for, like the pepper, the clove,
the cinnamon, the anise, stuff like that. So so it's
fiber content does affect the final liquor. Also interesting, oak
(11:26):
contains some of those same compounds, which is why you
might taste those flavors in whiskeys that have zero rye
in them. Rye is a pretty common ingredient in other
liquors around the world, like vodkas, and also in other
whiskies made especially in the US and Canada, but also beyond,
(11:47):
even if they're not labeled rye. Like, technically a bourbon
could be forty nine percent rye if a distiller really
wanted to do that. A bourbon is fifty one percent
corn by the American deficit, with a couple of other
things in there. Again, seerbourbon episode if you want to
learn more about that. There there has been research, scientific
(12:10):
research into whether that legal fifty one percent rye cut
off is actually meaningful flavor wise, and the answer was like,
probably not. One of the researchers on this particular study
is legit named Tom Collins. Shout out to that guy.
(12:35):
But basically, this this study was highlighting the fact the
different American whiskies are often made very similarly these days.
So even though a bourbon is at least fifty one
percent corn, it might still have enough rye, or a
rye might have enough corn, or the mashes for both
(12:56):
might be fermented in similar enough ways that, like, functionally,
you might not be able to tell the difference among
a lot of big brand bourbons and ries just off
the shelf, you know, unless the distiller was really going
for something distinct, and some of them certainly are. There's
generally been like a real decent amount of research over
the past fifteen years or so into the chemistry and
(13:19):
flavor of rye whiskeys, including rye arrietls and like overall
mash bills and aging. It's really cool. A little bit
outside of our scope today, but yeah, rye whiskey can
be consumed anyway that you like to consume liquor. It
is often featured in very booze forward ways. You know,
(13:42):
a lot of cocktails are kind of about hiding the
taste and the burn of liquor. I feel like rye
cocktails tend to be sort of the opposite. Like the
kind of things that are recommended is like an after
dinner sipper. Maybe. A few classics that often feature rye
include the sazarak, which is basically a glass of whiskey
(14:02):
that's been lightly sweetened and flavored with some absinthe and
some bitters, or the manhattan, which is whiskey with sweet
vermouth and bitters, or the of Ukai, which is basically
a manhattan sweetened cognac, and the herbal benedictine licor all
lovely ones, by the way.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes, all lovely ones.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
All absolute glasses of alcohol, just a big old glass
of alcohol. So again, drink responsibly.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, which I guess that's the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, that covers the nutrition.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yes, yes, we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Who all right, Yeah, So, as of twenty nineteen, the
US was producing some ten point eight million liters of
rye per year, worth about two hundred and thirty six
million bucks. Mm hmmm hmm. But that number, that that
(15:03):
amount of success is pretty recent. From two thousand and
nine through twenty twenty one, sales of American rye whiskey,
by the case, like from distilleries out into the world
increased by one thousand, seven hundred and six percent. WHOA,
(15:28):
yuh huh yep. Yeah, that's a number I had to
I kept finding like one or two years further out,
Like I kept like it was always starting in two
thousand and nine, and then I had to revise that
number upward like three times as I found different sources,
and each time I couldn't believe how big the number was.
(15:48):
I was like, oh, surely, if in nine years it
was only twelve hundred percent, it's not going to be
seventeen hundred percent at the twelve year mark.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Like what yo?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Anyway, there is still room for growth from twenty nine
to twenty twenty four, American farms increased their acreage of
rye grain by seventy five percent, but only some eighteen
percent of it was actually harvested and put to use
beyond like animal grazing. So we've got a lot of
(16:31):
rye out there.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
We do have a lot of rye out there, and
the history is pretty fascinating, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Oh, it is.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
It is.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Uh, we've got a lot of it. Yes, and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from a quick break. For a word from
our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Okay. So very very brief history of distillation. I feel
like every time we do these episodes, I feel I
have to explain all of these things, but they deserve
their own episodes. But rudimentary distillation goes back to ancient times,
but it wasn't until the eighth century CE when alcohol
(17:26):
could be successfully and effectively distilled thanks to the invention
of the alabamic pot still, which was a creation of
the Arabic alchemist named Abu Musad jabiir Iban Hayan still.
A lot of these early alcohols were primarily used medicinally,
and the first known written mention of distilled alcohol comes
(17:49):
from a twelfth century Italian medical school. So yeah, still
using medicinally. Around the sixteen hundreds, more and more mentions
of recreation alcohol use started popping up. There was more
and more innovation around improving distillation techniques. The column are
(18:09):
continuous still was invented in the nineteenth century. This lowered
the price and increased the output of alcohol. This was
also when industrialization was really underway, making room for widespread
commercialization of distillation. Ryo itself is going to have to
(18:30):
be its own episode. Oh yeah, yep, oh yes. But
also briefly, historians think that rye originated in what is
now Turkey and the surrounding area thousands of years ago
and went to be domesticated in Central Europe somewhere around
four thousand, five hundred BCE. That brings us too, rye
(18:52):
whiskey specifically. When it comes to rye whiskey specifically, a
lot of that history begins when Europeans, particularly the Irish
and Scottish, arrived in North America, bringing their knowledge of
distilling and whiskey with them, and they also brought with
them rye.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
In addition to uses in human food like bread and
drink like distillation, a rye is a really great cover
crop that is a crop that's used to like maintain
soil integrity in between cash crop plantings. You know, you
don't want your soil to erode, so yeah, you plant
some rye or something there to kind of keep it
(19:32):
all together. And it's a great source of animal feed
and it handles cold weather really well.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, so, early colonists settling in America and the seventeen
hundreds often had small distilleries on their farms. It was
a good way to use up this extra grain, and
the barley that they were used to growing and using
for distillation in Europe didn't really take well. In a
lot of America. Rye was hardier than barley and more
(20:04):
accessible for many than corn, and so it was frequently
the grain of choice. By some estimates, there were somewhere
between fourteen to twenty thousand of these small distilleries in
operation in the US between eighteen ten to eighteen forty.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Whiskey back then would have looked different from what we
generally expect today, especially in that it was not barrel
aged these days. That's unusual like the color and flavor
you get from oak barrels is kind of part of
what whiskey is now. Unaged whiskies are referred to as
white whisky because they're clear in color, but it was
the norm at the time. Whiskys were certainly shipped in barrels,
(20:44):
but they were consumed fresh once they got to wherever
they were going.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yes. Over time, two distinct styles of rye whiskey emerged,
Pennsylvania style and Maryland style. Pennsylvania style didn't include any
corn since it primarily grew Corn primarily grew in the South,
and they didn't have easy access to corn like they
did with rye. It did, however, sometimes include malted barley.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Or malted rye. From what I read anyway, It was
also called Manongahela style after the Monongahela River the man
Yeah ooh, okay.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Meanwhile, Maryland style was a mixture of rye and corn.
At the time, this style was usually sixty five percent rye,
and this was because since Maryland is further south than Pennsylvania,
corn was much more available so they could add it in.
This is also when Kentucky started producing bourbon with corn
(21:50):
as the main or only grain, but some of their
distilleries produced Maryland style to Maryland style rye. On top
of that, since most of the population was further east
than Kentucky, a lot of the trade routes transported more
rye whiskey than bourbon.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
So back east anyway, a lot of bourbon wound up
going down the Mississippi to New Orleans.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yes again, see our Bourbon episodes for more about that.
Of note, Canada was producing rye whiskey too, though from
what I read, Theirs had a lower percentage of rye
than a lot of American styles, if any at all.
In the early days, rye was the primary grain, though,
which is why the name really stuck.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Whoo.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
In the aftermath of America's seventeen seventy three Boston Tea Party,
where a group of men boarded ships in the Boston
Harbor and tossed the tea that these ships carried overboard
as a way to reject the British, Americans shunned and
British colony produced rum. A British blockade of molasses imported
(23:07):
to the US helped, and many instead turned to rye whiskey.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah. Yeah. The Revolutionary War is a big part of
why American whiskey in general took off. Meanwhile, it's unclear
exactly when American distillers started aging whiskey and barrels and
when the char furthermore became popular. The kind of story
that goes around is that near about the seventeen eighties,
(23:35):
the Kentucky distiller by the name of Elijah Craig would
burn out the inside of old fish barrels to clean
them before filling them with whiskey and sending them down
the river to New Orleans, which was a good market
for liquor even back then. The journey took a few months,
and people who bought the whiskey liked the flavors that
(23:55):
the charred barrel had imparted. This is a fun story,
you know. I suspect different distillers were playing around with
all kinds of different techniques at that time. Also kind
of side note, but the standard barrel size in the
US in the late seventeen early eighteen hundreds was forty
eight gallons, which is a little bit smaller than what
(24:18):
we use today, which we'll get a little bit more
of that would flavor into the drink more quickly because
of you know, volume to service area.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yep, good note. Okay. So after enacting America's first excise
tax in seventeen ninety one, the so called whiskey tax
on distilled spirits, there was a revolt against it in
Pennsylvania and specifically Western Pennsylvania, in what was dubbed the
(24:54):
Whisky Rebellion, and a lot of people just refuse to
pay the tax, and there were a few injuries and diths.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, and this was all pretty much concerning rye whiskey
and like, yeah, like they tarred and feathered a tax collector. Like,
I mean, it's not too much of that happened, but
I think it happened at least once. The rebellion was
over by the end of seventeen ninety four, but it
did take a militia of like thirteen thousand soldiers rolling
in to calm everything down. A number of instigators were
(25:24):
arrested and even tried and convicted, but were pardoned by
then President George Washington. I think we should do a
whole episode about this. Personally, I think we should too.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
It was seen as a real blow to the newly
established government's ability to govern and a reminder of how
fragile the whole thing was Thomas Jefferson repealed the tax
at eighteen oh two.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, our buddy Alexander Hamilton was the guy who suggested
it in the first place. Yep. Also, some of the
distillery involved in the rebellion probably wound up immigrating over
to Kentucky, where there was already a booming whiskey industry,
and bringing their taste for rye with them.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yes, and speaking of George Washington, George Washington started a
distillery in seventeen ninety seven, and allegedly this distillery produced
up to eleven thousand gallons of whiskey just in seventeen
ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yep. It was a Maryland style rye with about sixty
percent rye, thirty five percent corn, and five percent malted
barley in the mash bill. And yes, they paid their
excise tax. But yeah, Washington's distillery was one of the
largest in America at the time. It may have been
(26:46):
the most profitable part of his plantation. It was run
by enslaved people. Washington himself passed in seventeen ninety nine,
but the Mountain Vernon Distillery kept running until it burned
down in eighteen fourteen, and yeah, rye whiskey really was
the American liquor of the time. As of eighteen ten,
(27:09):
Pennsylvania producers alone were shipping some six point five million
gallons of rye a year. Kentucky bourbon producers were only
doing like a third of that.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And then a Scottish chemist named James Crowe explained the
process of using a sour mash in eighteen thirty four.
Though some distillers were probably already doing it, most rye
whiskey distillers adopted this process.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
By around the time of the Civil War, you know,
the eighteen sixties or so. Rye whiskey distilleries had started
keeping barrel houses for aging their product, and apparently they
kept these warehouses heated in the colder months, which is
not what whiskey producers do today. But these warehouses would
(27:59):
have been like seven five to ninety degrees fahrenheit year round,
which I have not translated into celsius, but is like
room temperature to uncomfortably warm. And we are not sure
how this would have affected the rye. We just don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
That's fun yeah right, m hm okay.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Anyway, during the later half of the eighteen hundreds, the
cocktail scene in America was really cementing itself. You know,
a few brands of Bitters had taken off. You can
see our episode on Bitters for more on that. Citrus
was becoming more available, bartender's guides were being written, and
especially after the French wine blight totally wrecked the brandy
(28:44):
and cognac industry, a lot of cocktail recipes were calling
for a base liquor of rye.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yes and rye whiskey held its spot as the main
style of whiskey in America until prohibition wasn't acted in
nineteen nineteen. Whiskey supplies dwindled because they couldn't make it really.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Uh huh, and it was still being distributed medicinally medicinally.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yes. Then in nineteen thirty three, prohibition was repealed, but
distillers couldn't produce aged whiskeys without ample time. But they
just couldn't immediately produce that, which meant that Americans turned
towards imported age whiskies. Some American distillers lowered their prices
(29:34):
knowing that they couldn't match the quality of imported age whiskies.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yet well yeah, yeah, I mean, if you need a
couple years to age a whiskey. You can't. You really
can't do anything about that. I do have a quote
here from nineteen thirty six from the then executive director
of the Distilled Spirits Institute, one doctor James M. Duran.
Because yeah, this was a whole kerfuffle for or the
(30:00):
American whiskey industry. There just wasn't any way to replicate
barrel aging. He said, after repeal, we had quite a
flurry in these ways to get at it quicker. People
didn't want to wait. They wanted good whiskey, and they
wanted it right away. Many of the processes suggested were
tried out. Heating and shaking and passing electrical current through
(30:21):
the spirits and so on. We're tried, but you can
just sum them up in one sentence. They will take
the newness out, but they almost invariably fail to put
the age in. Yeah, yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And to make matters worse, America's first Farm Subsidute bill,
also introduced in nineteen thirty three, didn't include rye, but
it did include corn and the small distilleries making rye
whiskey often didn't have much funding or infrastructure and became
(31:01):
just cheaper to make, and a lot of rye whiskey
distillers turned towards making bourbon instead if they could anyway,
because plenty of them just shut down unable to bear
the cost, especially Pennsylvania style rye whiskies. It didn't help
that most production of rye whiskey came to a halt
(31:21):
during World War Two as well.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, a lot of distilleries switched to making industrial alcohol
for the war. World War two is also when the
American barrel industry changed that standard size two fifty three
gallons up from forty eight, basically to save lumber for
the war effort. And right, yeah, your your barrel size
will affect how a whiskey ages.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
By the nineteen eighties, the last distillery making Pennsylvania style
rye had shut its doors. Maryland style seemed to fade
away in the seventies and eighties. At the time, most
rye whiskey available in the US was from Canada, and
there was a larger consumer preference for clear alcohols.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah a big, big vodka times around then Bourbon was
doing okay, but but yeah, like rye largely went away
during this time period. As of two thousand and six,
only around one point three million leaders of rye whiskey
were being produced in the US every year.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, yes, But in recent years, Kraft Rye whiskey distillation
has made a comeback in the US. In the early
two thousands, some companies started debuting their versions of it again.
This is in part due to a growing consumer demand
for high quality whiskies in the US. Social media and
(32:49):
the Internet helped as well.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Oh yeah, and the whole craft cocktail movement of like
the late nineties early two thousands. You know, like a
bunch of bartenders were looking at these old recipes and
discovered the rye was such a common ingredient, and so
they really wanted to seek it out to see what
those old recipes would have tasted like. As part of
all that, in two thousand and seven, the Mount Vernon
(33:12):
Estate reconstructed a distillery on site. You can visit now
it's like a working museum, and you can also buy
rye or brandy or sometimes other products like rum from
the Mountain Vernon Distillery.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
It is.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
It is very expensive.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I'm sure, I'm sure it is. Listeners right in if
you've ever, oh yes, visited. Yes, a growing number of
international producers around the world have gotten into the rye
whiskey game as well, producing their own.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
But yeah, yeah, you know, lots of places that grow
rye have some history of distilling it. For example, it's
been a common ingredient in like Jennifer in the Netherlands.
But whiskey has really boomed over the past twenty years
or so, inspired perhaps especially by American rise, and so
(34:07):
it's a it's a thing that people want to experiment with.
There is. There is, however, a bit of a legal
kerfuffle over the name rye whiskey in the European Union.
As of twenty twenty five, the EU has protections on
the term Canadian rye whiskey to indicate product that's, you know,
from Canada, and because laws are complicated, it's being interpreted
(34:31):
to prevent EU distillers from using the term rye whiskey
on their bottles even without the term Canadian. Arguments about
this are ongoing. The specific agreement that this language is
from is up for renegotiation this year twenty twenty six,
so we'll see what happens. And yeah, today there are
(34:54):
even a few distilleries trying to recreate old Maryland style
in Pennsylvania, style rise. The two I read about specifically
were Dad's Hat for Pennsylvania Style and Leopold Brothers for
Maryland Style. And they're up to some nerdy stuff, like
they're trying to redesign like the specific kind of still
(35:15):
they're looking at the varietals. I love it.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
It's fantastic. This was definitely an undertaking of an episode.
Oh yeah, but people have really been undertaking it at
their own distilleries in their memories.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah yeah, I didn't. I didn't realize how recent they've
The availability of rye on the market really was, Like,
I it's something that, like since I came of drinking
age has kind of always been around. I didn't realize
(35:59):
that that's a new old thing.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah yeah, So it was cool learning about it. It
was cool learning about the history of it. And it's
always interesting when researching an item like this, it's like, oh,
so much American history is tied into this.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I A number a number
of side quests are going to.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Come to you, indeed, but hopefully we did a justice.
Listeners as always write in Oh yeah, I think that's
what we have to say about Rye whiskey for now.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I think it is. We do already have some listener
mail for you, though, and we're going to get into
that as soon as we get back from one more
quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
You. Never know how a rye whiskey will go.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
No, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
They have a lot of flavor to them. So Bart wrote,
loved your recent mocha pot show snapped the shot of
my little octagonal friend. It's cute mascot and use while listening.
He's very cute. I've had one for years and love
(37:45):
converting the espresso adjacent deliciousness it produces into Americano adjacent
weekend treats by adding a little water and some sugar
free flavored syrup. I love coffee makers with zero consumables,
and that that makes the mocha pot a fun alternative
to my trusty French press. The French press is quicker
(38:07):
for making coffee but takes more cleaning, so that gets
favored on the weekdays I work from home, but weekends
those are when the moca pot shines. They last years.
But I did find out the hard way that you
can destroy them with a little carelessness. I warped my
first one into oblivion by forgetting to add the water.
(38:29):
Oh duh. This one replaced that whoopsie about a decade ago,
and the coffee remains as delicious as ever. It is
a cute moca poe. It is. It is.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
It's just a little buddy and it's got its little
mascot on it with his one finger up as if
to say cafe please.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
And yeah, yeah, I also think you know, you have
your different types of coffee makers for your different times.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Oh yeah, for different tastes.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I my my general morning coffee is just like a
pour over. But if I have some nice beans, or
if I've got some time to wait for a whole
French press to brew minutes and minutes, then I go
ahead and do that. It does, uh when the scent
(39:27):
hits you, but the coffee isn't ready yet. Yeah, oh
I need to. I'm nearly positive that we have one
in the house somewhere. I'm gonna figure this out.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
You should, yeah, you should.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Uh and yeah. Not adding water to something that is
partially tempered by the fact that water only goes up
to one hundred degrees celsius is a really good way
to melt that, to melt that implement.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, yeah, listen, I've broken a French press and a
moca pot.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I've shattered more than one French press.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, it's so sad because you're so excited for the coffee.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
I've never broken one before I got the coffee out
of it.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
No, I definitely was excited for the coffee and it broke.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Oh if I had my coffee implement break before I
had had coffee, I would probably just start crying. That
would I would be like, well, I'm going back to bed,
and I'm never leaving like that.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
That's my sign. That's this day is useless to bed.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
I go.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, cats would be very happy. Eric wrote Shortening is
another one of those things that has an interesting history.
I always remember having a container of crisco around growing up.
The majority of the time we used it for greasing pans,
but there were a couple of recipes where it was
used as an ingredient. Years later, we had a recipe
for cookies that used the butter flavored crisco. While the
(41:15):
cookies were still good, I don't think they are as
good as ones using actual butter. Something about the actual
texture was just different enough that you go huh to
each of their own. As for castle At, I do
want to try one made by someone who grew up
with them. I've had various bean dishes that were castle inspired,
but really want a true castle at just to see.
(41:37):
I think it would hit really well. Now with this
huge cold snap, it is interesting to see how cotch
cheese is making the rounds. Again. I do like cottage
cheese and like seeing it used more, but why do
people think they need to cram it into everything? It
is a good product, but I really would like the
insanity to die down. I sometimes really wonder if people
have tasted what they made, or how much they're faking
(41:58):
it when they taste it. Hearing the Moga pot episode
reminded me that I need to get one still. I've
had Turkish and Greek coffee, and while this is not
the same, I think the consistency will be similar. Sheiso
is one of those ingredients that I've not had in
a while. I need to find a place that uses it.
After hearing the episode, more of those things that get
(42:18):
cravings started the cravings are real.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
The cravings are real. I haven't been able to get
chiso since we did that episode.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Oh no, yeah, oh, I forgot about it. I forgot
about it entirely. Now I was. I was like outsick
for like two weeks right after we did that episode.
So I haven't done anything but or nothing that involves
fresh produce anyway. Uh yeah, yeah, but I but I
have a trip to h Mart in the works. We're
planning it out. I think it's going to happen. Oh,
(42:52):
Scott too, yeah, Scott to.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Well, I've been loving hearing these different tales of crisco. Yes, yes,
just because I didn't have it in my house. So
I love hearing how the various ways you.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
All used to Yeah, I think I think I remember
it primarily being used right to grease pans, and then
in certain pie crests it would be the fat in
the pie crest. I think that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I can see that.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
I'll have to like ask my aunts or something. I'm
not sure how did we use crisco, Like figure out
what the stained recipes are and the recipe books that
I have from my family and see if they had
if they called for Crisco yes, yes, Also, yes, cassilet
(43:53):
would hit nicely in this weather.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Oh yeah, another craving satisfied.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, I'm so many cravings behind.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I do have cottage cheese. Yes, I purchased some immediately
after that episode. I haven't eaten it yet because I'm
deciding what I want to mix in with it. I
think avocado.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Interesting, Okay, yeah, avocado paprika.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Yeah that sounds yes, I think I think so.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, definitely, yes.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
But I mean it is true. Sometimes a product gets
caught up in the hype and it's in everything. But
I think cottage cheese deserves its space.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah. Yeah, it's got lasting power. Clearly, it's gonna it's
it's it's gonna even out.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, thank you to both of
these listeners. To write again. If you would like to
write to as you can or emails hello at savorpod
dot com.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
Instagram and blue Sky at saver pod and we do
hope to hear from you. Save is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(45:27):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm any reci and I'm Lauren Bogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about rye whiskey.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes and drink respond somebody? Yeah always Uh huh yes.
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So we are currently in this early February, in the
midst of carnival season, and rye whiskey is a classic
ingredient in a lot of the cocktails that get featured
around certainly New Orleans and around those traditions of Marti Gras.
(00:50):
So yeah, here we are, here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
And again, Lauren, you've come out swinging with your topic
choices in this new year. Uh, this one was a
lot to wrangle.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's my bad. I'm sorry. Uh. Super interesting.
Uh and if it makes you feel better, historians are
also mad. It's not just us. Yeah, we're in good company. No,
that does make me feel better.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Uh. Well, you can see our past episodes that we
did on Bourbon.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I would say, yeah, sure, definitely Bourbon, maybe Scotch for
a little bit of like the European history, maybe some
of our German Beer episodes like Schwarzbier or I always
say it wrong on Joltson. I think I'm getting closer
but still doing it wrong anyway. Uh yeah, those and
then yeah, like our New Orleans Cocktails episode, also the
(01:55):
Sasarak and the Manhattan Yeah, I think, yeah, probably some
others that are going to come up in here. I
think we've got some future offshoots to do too. It's
gonna be great.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Oh, definitely, definitely. And I have to say I do
love Rye whiskey. I always thought I just liked it
because it had like it was a little bit bolder
I don't know, a flavor. Yeah, I think that we
when we did our episode with eighteen twenty one bitters
(02:29):
A used to Rye whiskey and I really.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, really liked that one.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I made that cocktail a lot ooh yeah, nice, it
was nice.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I like a Rye. I like a Rye cocktail. I
kind of just like sipping on a just just a
nice one, just you know, just I mean, I know
that booze is warming, but yeah, it's kind of the
flavor profile is also a little bit warming. It's nice.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
It is it is, which I guess brings us to
our question, Sure, rye whiskey, what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, rye whiskey is a category of liquor made with
rye grain. Depending on legal definitions and personal preferences, you
can make it different ways, but you're typically looking at
a liquor that's like translucent, toasty, golden brown in color,
at least forty percent ABV alcohol by volume, and with
(03:30):
flavors that are dry and ready and spiced like baking, spicy,
with a little bit of maybe vanilla caramel, and maybe
some soft florals or herbs in there. People drink it
straight or over ice or mixed into cocktails, often with
like sweet and fruity elements to brighten it up a
little bit. It's like licking a dusty wooden barrel and
(03:55):
like you think that some of the dust might be sugar,
but like you're not entirely sure.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
It's like that.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
In a fun way.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Surprising, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
But okay, whiskey basics. And when I say basics, I
mean super basic. Like we're not a distillation show, so
there's only so much science I'm getting into today. But
all right, Whiskys are distilled alcohol made from a mix
of grains like wheat, corn, barley, and rye yes, rye uh.
You cook the grains with water to form what's called
(04:29):
a mash, then ferment that using yeasts which eat sugars
from the grains and poop alcohol and flavor yeast food.
This creates what's called a distiller's beer, which will be
about nine percent alcohol or so. You then distill out
the alcohol and flavors that you want by heating that
(04:49):
beer to the point where those things that you want
evaporate out and can be collected. You usually age whiskeys
in oak barrels that have been charred on the inside.
Off have been charred on the inside, and during aging
they pick up flavors and colors from the wood and
the char. When you're happy with it, you can bottle it.
(05:10):
Some distillers blend product from different barrels together to adjust
the flavors and or add water to achieve the final
ABV that they want. But yeah, that's whiskey. Yeah it's
probably real obvious once I say it. But every little
bit of this process affects the flavors that you wind
up with and you're finished whiskey. The types and amounts
(05:33):
of grains you use the temperatures that you cook them
at to release their sugars, the yeasts and other microbes
that you use to ferment them, the exact process you
use to distill them, and how you age them. So certainly,
within the category of whiskey, and even within the smaller
category of rye whiskey, you can wind up with products
(05:55):
that taste super different, which is honestly part of the fun. Okay,
The legal definition of rye whisky in the United States
is a product that's made from a mixture of grains
that's at least fifty one percent rye, is aged in
brand new chart oak barrels, and is bottled at at
(06:15):
least forty percent ABV or eighty proof. There are also
regulations about the ABV at distillation at barreling, but it's
kind of in the nitty gritty. The rest of the
grains that you use in a rye whisky can be
whatever you want. Corn and barley are common in American ries,
but wheat, rice, oats, or you know, basically any other
grain can be used to Some distillers use some amount
(06:38):
of malted grains. Malted grains are grains that have been
allowed to germinate like just begin the sprouting process, you know,
so that they start converting some of their starches to sugars,
and then they're dried or kilned to stop that process,
during which there's sometimes toasted or roasted to whatever level
(06:58):
of toaster roast you want. Yeah, flavors. Other terms that
you might see on American rye whiskey bottles include sour mash.
Some rise are made with what's called a sour mash process,
which just means that the distiller keeps a bit of
fermented mash from a previous batch and adds it to
(07:20):
the fresh mash to help kickstart the fermentation process. This
can help a distiller create like a more consistent flavor
across batches, or just to add specific flavors that they like.
Generally speaking, you know, the fresh yeasts you add to
each batch are not the only microbes that are going
to join the party, because you know, microbes live all
(07:43):
around us. Sour mash will contain like your personal microbiome
or your I mean, your distillery is personal microbiome. I
should say. It got the name sour mash probably because
it's like a little bit tart, because there are probably
friendly bacteria in there. That eat sugars and poop assa
bacteria poop. Yeah. Other whiskis can be made with this
(08:04):
hour mash process as well. Then you might see straight
rye on a label. To be labeled straight rye, the
rye whiskey in question has to have no added colors
or flavors, and it has to be aged for at
least two years. If the aging process is less than
four years, you have to say that on the bottle,
(08:24):
meaning that if a bottle labeled straight rye doesn't have
the age on it, it's at least four years old.
Could they have made this more complicated, probably in the
case of whisky blends, that the age on the bottle
is always going to be the age of the youngest
whiskey contained in the blend. Speaking of labels, not everything
(08:48):
called rye is what we're talking about here today. Colloquially,
Canadian whiskies are sometimes called ries regardless of whether they
contain any rye grain at all. This is a historical
nomenclature thing we're going to talk about a little bit
in the history section, although many Canadian whiskies do include
some rye, so there we are. I don't know. Also,
(09:10):
rock and Rye is a type of liqueur that's made
from rye whiskey, rock sugar, and some kind of like
citrus infusion, not quite a rye whiskey. Yeah, but let's
talk a little bit about rye grain, just a little bit,
like a whole episode is forthcoming someday, someday, but okay. Yeah. So,
(09:34):
rye is a type of grain, meaning it's the starchy
seed of a grassy plant. There are many varietals of
rye developed for different characteristics, not all of which concern
food anyway. Rye is related to wheat like closely enough
that the plants can reproduce to form a hybrid. But
rye has some really key differences. Some of those don't
(09:56):
particularly matter for our purposes today, Like like the main
proteins and rye are not glutens, and that's why bread
made with a lot of rye flour tends to be
dense and crumbly, not like fluffy and chewy. Interesting, but
more tour point today. Rye has some cool like bitter
herbal pike in sort of flavors, especially in its germ
(10:20):
and brand, like the outer layers of the seed. Yeah,
it also has more nutrients for fermentation microbes to eat
than wheat does, which doesn't matter that much today, but
like historically, would have made it a great candidate for
making alcohol. Also pertinent to our point today, rye grain
(10:41):
is known for having a high dietary fiber content compared
with other grains, like fifteen to twenty five percent by
dry matter weight, where other grains top out top out
at like under twenty percent. Okay, and you wouldn't think
that that would matter for a liquor. The fiber doesn't
wind up in the liquor, but some of those celluloc
(11:06):
compounds break down to create the spice flavor compounds that
these whiskies are known for, like the pepper, the clove,
the cinnamon, the anise, stuff like that. So so it's
fiber content does affect the final liquor. Also interesting, oak
(11:26):
contains some of those same compounds, which is why you
might taste those flavors in whiskeys that have zero rye
in them. Rye is a pretty common ingredient in other
liquors around the world, like vodkas, and also in other
whiskies made especially in the US and Canada, but also beyond,
(11:47):
even if they're not labeled rye. Like, technically a bourbon
could be forty nine percent rye if a distiller really
wanted to do that. A bourbon is fifty one percent
corn by the American deficit, with a couple of other
things in there. Again, seerbourbon episode if you want to
learn more about that. There there has been research, scientific
(12:10):
research into whether that legal fifty one percent rye cut
off is actually meaningful flavor wise, and the answer was like,
probably not. One of the researchers on this particular study
is legit named Tom Collins. Shout out to that guy.
(12:35):
But basically, this this study was highlighting the fact the
different American whiskies are often made very similarly these days.
So even though a bourbon is at least fifty one
percent corn, it might still have enough rye, or a
rye might have enough corn, or the mashes for both
(12:56):
might be fermented in similar enough ways that, like, functionally,
you might not be able to tell the difference among
a lot of big brand bourbons and ries just off
the shelf, you know, unless the distiller was really going
for something distinct, and some of them certainly are. There's
generally been like a real decent amount of research over
the past fifteen years or so into the chemistry and
(13:19):
flavor of rye whiskeys, including rye arrietls and like overall
mash bills and aging. It's really cool. A little bit
outside of our scope today, but yeah, rye whiskey can
be consumed anyway that you like to consume liquor. It
is often featured in very booze forward ways. You know,
(13:42):
a lot of cocktails are kind of about hiding the
taste and the burn of liquor. I feel like rye
cocktails tend to be sort of the opposite. Like the
kind of things that are recommended is like an after
dinner sipper. Maybe. A few classics that often feature rye
include the sazarak, which is basically a glass of whiskey
(14:02):
that's been lightly sweetened and flavored with some absinthe and
some bitters, or the manhattan, which is whiskey with sweet
vermouth and bitters, or the of Ukai, which is basically
a manhattan sweetened cognac, and the herbal benedictine licor all
lovely ones, by the way.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes, all lovely ones.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
All absolute glasses of alcohol, just a big old glass
of alcohol. So again, drink responsibly.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, which I guess that's the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, that covers the nutrition.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yes, yes, we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Who all right, Yeah, So, as of twenty nineteen, the
US was producing some ten point eight million liters of
rye per year, worth about two hundred and thirty six
million bucks. Mm hmmm hmm. But that number, that that
(15:03):
amount of success is pretty recent. From two thousand and
nine through twenty twenty one, sales of American rye whiskey,
by the case, like from distilleries out into the world
increased by one thousand, seven hundred and six percent. WHOA,
(15:28):
yuh huh yep. Yeah, that's a number I had to
I kept finding like one or two years further out,
Like I kept like it was always starting in two
thousand and nine, and then I had to revise that
number upward like three times as I found different sources,
and each time I couldn't believe how big the number was.
(15:48):
I was like, oh, surely, if in nine years it
was only twelve hundred percent, it's not going to be
seventeen hundred percent at the twelve year mark.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Like what yo?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Anyway, there is still room for growth from twenty nine
to twenty twenty four, American farms increased their acreage of
rye grain by seventy five percent, but only some eighteen
percent of it was actually harvested and put to use
beyond like animal grazing. So we've got a lot of
(16:31):
rye out there.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
We do have a lot of rye out there, and
the history is pretty fascinating, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Oh, it is.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
It is.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Uh, we've got a lot of it. Yes, and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from a quick break. For a word from
our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Okay. So very very brief history of distillation. I feel
like every time we do these episodes, I feel I
have to explain all of these things, but they deserve
their own episodes. But rudimentary distillation goes back to ancient times,
but it wasn't until the eighth century CE when alcohol
(17:26):
could be successfully and effectively distilled thanks to the invention
of the alabamic pot still, which was a creation of
the Arabic alchemist named Abu Musad jabiir Iban Hayan still.
A lot of these early alcohols were primarily used medicinally,
and the first known written mention of distilled alcohol comes
(17:49):
from a twelfth century Italian medical school. So yeah, still
using medicinally. Around the sixteen hundreds, more and more mentions
of recreation alcohol use started popping up. There was more
and more innovation around improving distillation techniques. The column are
(18:09):
continuous still was invented in the nineteenth century. This lowered
the price and increased the output of alcohol. This was
also when industrialization was really underway, making room for widespread
commercialization of distillation. Ryo itself is going to have to
(18:30):
be its own episode. Oh yeah, yep, oh yes. But
also briefly, historians think that rye originated in what is
now Turkey and the surrounding area thousands of years ago
and went to be domesticated in Central Europe somewhere around
four thousand, five hundred BCE. That brings us too, rye
(18:52):
whiskey specifically. When it comes to rye whiskey specifically, a
lot of that history begins when Europeans, particularly the Irish
and Scottish, arrived in North America, bringing their knowledge of
distilling and whiskey with them, and they also brought with
them rye.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
In addition to uses in human food like bread and
drink like distillation, a rye is a really great cover
crop that is a crop that's used to like maintain
soil integrity in between cash crop plantings. You know, you
don't want your soil to erode, so yeah, you plant
some rye or something there to kind of keep it
(19:32):
all together. And it's a great source of animal feed
and it handles cold weather really well.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, so, early colonists settling in America and the seventeen
hundreds often had small distilleries on their farms. It was
a good way to use up this extra grain, and
the barley that they were used to growing and using
for distillation in Europe didn't really take well. In a
lot of America. Rye was hardier than barley and more
(20:04):
accessible for many than corn, and so it was frequently
the grain of choice. By some estimates, there were somewhere
between fourteen to twenty thousand of these small distilleries in
operation in the US between eighteen ten to eighteen forty.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Whiskey back then would have looked different from what we
generally expect today, especially in that it was not barrel
aged these days. That's unusual like the color and flavor
you get from oak barrels is kind of part of
what whiskey is now. Unaged whiskies are referred to as
white whisky because they're clear in color, but it was
the norm at the time. Whiskys were certainly shipped in barrels,
(20:44):
but they were consumed fresh once they got to wherever
they were going.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yes. Over time, two distinct styles of rye whiskey emerged,
Pennsylvania style and Maryland style. Pennsylvania style didn't include any
corn since it primarily grew Corn primarily grew in the South,
and they didn't have easy access to corn like they
did with rye. It did, however, sometimes include malted barley.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Or malted rye. From what I read anyway, It was
also called Manongahela style after the Monongahela River the man
Yeah ooh, okay.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Meanwhile, Maryland style was a mixture of rye and corn.
At the time, this style was usually sixty five percent rye,
and this was because since Maryland is further south than Pennsylvania,
corn was much more available so they could add it in.
This is also when Kentucky started producing bourbon with corn
(21:50):
as the main or only grain, but some of their
distilleries produced Maryland style to Maryland style rye. On top
of that, since most of the population was further east
than Kentucky, a lot of the trade routes transported more
rye whiskey than bourbon.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
So back east anyway, a lot of bourbon wound up
going down the Mississippi to New Orleans.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yes again, see our Bourbon episodes for more about that.
Of note, Canada was producing rye whiskey too, though from
what I read, Theirs had a lower percentage of rye
than a lot of American styles, if any at all.
In the early days, rye was the primary grain, though,
which is why the name really stuck.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Whoo.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
In the aftermath of America's seventeen seventy three Boston Tea Party,
where a group of men boarded ships in the Boston
Harbor and tossed the tea that these ships carried overboard
as a way to reject the British, Americans shunned and
British colony produced rum. A British blockade of molasses imported
(23:07):
to the US helped, and many instead turned to rye whiskey.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah. Yeah. The Revolutionary War is a big part of
why American whiskey in general took off. Meanwhile, it's unclear
exactly when American distillers started aging whiskey and barrels and
when the char furthermore became popular. The kind of story
that goes around is that near about the seventeen eighties,
(23:35):
the Kentucky distiller by the name of Elijah Craig would
burn out the inside of old fish barrels to clean
them before filling them with whiskey and sending them down
the river to New Orleans, which was a good market
for liquor even back then. The journey took a few months,
and people who bought the whiskey liked the flavors that
(23:55):
the charred barrel had imparted. This is a fun story,
you know. I suspect different distillers were playing around with
all kinds of different techniques at that time. Also kind
of side note, but the standard barrel size in the
US in the late seventeen early eighteen hundreds was forty
eight gallons, which is a little bit smaller than what
(24:18):
we use today, which we'll get a little bit more
of that would flavor into the drink more quickly because
of you know, volume to service area.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yep, good note. Okay. So after enacting America's first excise
tax in seventeen ninety one, the so called whiskey tax
on distilled spirits, there was a revolt against it in
Pennsylvania and specifically Western Pennsylvania, in what was dubbed the
(24:54):
Whisky Rebellion, and a lot of people just refuse to
pay the tax, and there were a few injuries and diths.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, and this was all pretty much concerning rye whiskey
and like, yeah, like they tarred and feathered a tax collector. Like,
I mean, it's not too much of that happened, but
I think it happened at least once. The rebellion was
over by the end of seventeen ninety four, but it
did take a militia of like thirteen thousand soldiers rolling
in to calm everything down. A number of instigators were
(25:24):
arrested and even tried and convicted, but were pardoned by
then President George Washington. I think we should do a
whole episode about this. Personally, I think we should too.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
It was seen as a real blow to the newly
established government's ability to govern and a reminder of how
fragile the whole thing was Thomas Jefferson repealed the tax
at eighteen oh two.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, our buddy Alexander Hamilton was the guy who suggested
it in the first place. Yep. Also, some of the
distillery involved in the rebellion probably wound up immigrating over
to Kentucky, where there was already a booming whiskey industry,
and bringing their taste for rye with them.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yes, and speaking of George Washington, George Washington started a
distillery in seventeen ninety seven, and allegedly this distillery produced
up to eleven thousand gallons of whiskey just in seventeen
ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Yep. It was a Maryland style rye with about sixty
percent rye, thirty five percent corn, and five percent malted
barley in the mash bill. And yes, they paid their
excise tax. But yeah, Washington's distillery was one of the
largest in America at the time. It may have been
(26:46):
the most profitable part of his plantation. It was run
by enslaved people. Washington himself passed in seventeen ninety nine,
but the Mountain Vernon Distillery kept running until it burned
down in eighteen fourteen, and yeah, rye whiskey really was
the American liquor of the time. As of eighteen ten,
(27:09):
Pennsylvania producers alone were shipping some six point five million
gallons of rye a year. Kentucky bourbon producers were only
doing like a third of that.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And then a Scottish chemist named James Crowe explained the
process of using a sour mash in eighteen thirty four.
Though some distillers were probably already doing it, most rye
whiskey distillers adopted this process.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
By around the time of the Civil War, you know,
the eighteen sixties or so. Rye whiskey distilleries had started
keeping barrel houses for aging their product, and apparently they
kept these warehouses heated in the colder months, which is
not what whiskey producers do today. But these warehouses would
(27:59):
have been like seven five to ninety degrees fahrenheit year round,
which I have not translated into celsius, but is like
room temperature to uncomfortably warm. And we are not sure
how this would have affected the rye. We just don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
That's fun yeah right, m hm okay.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Anyway, during the later half of the eighteen hundreds, the
cocktail scene in America was really cementing itself. You know,
a few brands of Bitters had taken off. You can
see our episode on Bitters for more on that. Citrus
was becoming more available, bartender's guides were being written, and
especially after the French wine blight totally wrecked the brandy
(28:44):
and cognac industry, a lot of cocktail recipes were calling
for a base liquor of rye.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yes and rye whiskey held its spot as the main
style of whiskey in America until prohibition wasn't acted in
nineteen nineteen. Whiskey supplies dwindled because they couldn't make it really.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Uh huh, and it was still being distributed medicinally medicinally.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yes. Then in nineteen thirty three, prohibition was repealed, but
distillers couldn't produce aged whiskeys without ample time. But they
just couldn't immediately produce that, which meant that Americans turned
towards imported age whiskies. Some American distillers lowered their prices
(29:34):
knowing that they couldn't match the quality of imported age whiskies.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yet well yeah, yeah, I mean, if you need a
couple years to age a whiskey. You can't. You really
can't do anything about that. I do have a quote
here from nineteen thirty six from the then executive director
of the Distilled Spirits Institute, one doctor James M. Duran.
Because yeah, this was a whole kerfuffle for or the
(30:00):
American whiskey industry. There just wasn't any way to replicate
barrel aging. He said, after repeal, we had quite a
flurry in these ways to get at it quicker. People
didn't want to wait. They wanted good whiskey, and they
wanted it right away. Many of the processes suggested were
tried out. Heating and shaking and passing electrical current through
(30:21):
the spirits and so on. We're tried, but you can
just sum them up in one sentence. They will take
the newness out, but they almost invariably fail to put
the age in. Yeah, yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And to make matters worse, America's first Farm Subsidute bill,
also introduced in nineteen thirty three, didn't include rye, but
it did include corn and the small distilleries making rye
whiskey often didn't have much funding or infrastructure and became
(31:01):
just cheaper to make, and a lot of rye whiskey
distillers turned towards making bourbon instead if they could anyway,
because plenty of them just shut down unable to bear
the cost, especially Pennsylvania style rye whiskies. It didn't help
that most production of rye whiskey came to a halt
(31:21):
during World War Two as well.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, a lot of distilleries switched to making industrial alcohol
for the war. World War two is also when the
American barrel industry changed that standard size two fifty three
gallons up from forty eight, basically to save lumber for
the war effort. And right, yeah, your your barrel size
will affect how a whiskey ages.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
By the nineteen eighties, the last distillery making Pennsylvania style
rye had shut its doors. Maryland style seemed to fade
away in the seventies and eighties. At the time, most
rye whiskey available in the US was from Canada, and
there was a larger consumer preference for clear alcohols.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah a big, big vodka times around then Bourbon was
doing okay, but but yeah, like rye largely went away
during this time period. As of two thousand and six,
only around one point three million leaders of rye whiskey
were being produced in the US every year.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, yes, But in recent years, Kraft Rye whiskey distillation
has made a comeback in the US. In the early
two thousands, some companies started debuting their versions of it again.
This is in part due to a growing consumer demand
for high quality whiskies in the US. Social media and
(32:49):
the Internet helped as well.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Oh yeah, and the whole craft cocktail movement of like
the late nineties early two thousands. You know, like a
bunch of bartenders were looking at these old recipes and
discovered the rye was such a common ingredient, and so
they really wanted to seek it out to see what
those old recipes would have tasted like. As part of
all that, in two thousand and seven, the Mount Vernon
(33:12):
Estate reconstructed a distillery on site. You can visit now
it's like a working museum, and you can also buy
rye or brandy or sometimes other products like rum from
the Mountain Vernon Distillery.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
It is.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
It is very expensive.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I'm sure, I'm sure it is. Listeners right in if
you've ever, oh yes, visited. Yes, a growing number of
international producers around the world have gotten into the rye
whiskey game as well, producing their own.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
But yeah, yeah, you know, lots of places that grow
rye have some history of distilling it. For example, it's
been a common ingredient in like Jennifer in the Netherlands.
But whiskey has really boomed over the past twenty years
or so, inspired perhaps especially by American rise, and so
(34:07):
it's a it's a thing that people want to experiment with.
There is. There is, however, a bit of a legal
kerfuffle over the name rye whiskey in the European Union.
As of twenty twenty five, the EU has protections on
the term Canadian rye whiskey to indicate product that's, you know,
from Canada, and because laws are complicated, it's being interpreted
(34:31):
to prevent EU distillers from using the term rye whiskey
on their bottles even without the term Canadian. Arguments about
this are ongoing. The specific agreement that this language is
from is up for renegotiation this year twenty twenty six,
so we'll see what happens. And yeah, today there are
(34:54):
even a few distilleries trying to recreate old Maryland style
in Pennsylvania, style rise. The two I read about specifically
were Dad's Hat for Pennsylvania Style and Leopold Brothers for
Maryland Style. And they're up to some nerdy stuff, like
they're trying to redesign like the specific kind of still
(35:15):
they're looking at the varietals. I love it.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
It's fantastic. This was definitely an undertaking of an episode.
Oh yeah, but people have really been undertaking it at
their own distilleries in their memories.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah yeah, I didn't. I didn't realize how recent they've
The availability of rye on the market really was, Like,
I it's something that, like since I came of drinking
age has kind of always been around. I didn't realize
(35:59):
that that's a new old thing.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah yeah, So it was cool learning about it. It
was cool learning about the history of it. And it's
always interesting when researching an item like this, it's like, oh,
so much American history is tied into this.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I A number a number
of side quests are going to.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Come to you, indeed, but hopefully we did a justice.
Listeners as always write in Oh yeah, I think that's
what we have to say about Rye whiskey for now.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I think it is. We do already have some listener
mail for you, though, and we're going to get into
that as soon as we get back from one more
quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
You. Never know how a rye whiskey will go.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
No, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
They have a lot of flavor to them. So Bart wrote,
loved your recent mocha pot show snapped the shot of
my little octagonal friend. It's cute mascot and use while listening.
He's very cute. I've had one for years and love
(37:45):
converting the espresso adjacent deliciousness it produces into Americano adjacent
weekend treats by adding a little water and some sugar
free flavored syrup. I love coffee makers with zero consumables,
and that that makes the mocha pot a fun alternative
to my trusty French press. The French press is quicker
(38:07):
for making coffee but takes more cleaning, so that gets
favored on the weekdays I work from home, but weekends
those are when the moca pot shines. They last years.
But I did find out the hard way that you
can destroy them with a little carelessness. I warped my
first one into oblivion by forgetting to add the water.
(38:29):
Oh duh. This one replaced that whoopsie about a decade ago,
and the coffee remains as delicious as ever. It is
a cute moca poe. It is. It is.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
It's just a little buddy and it's got its little
mascot on it with his one finger up as if
to say cafe please.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
And yeah, yeah, I also think you know, you have
your different types of coffee makers for your different times.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Oh yeah, for different tastes.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I my my general morning coffee is just like a
pour over. But if I have some nice beans, or
if I've got some time to wait for a whole
French press to brew minutes and minutes, then I go
ahead and do that. It does, uh when the scent
(39:27):
hits you, but the coffee isn't ready yet. Yeah, oh
I need to. I'm nearly positive that we have one
in the house somewhere. I'm gonna figure this out.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
You should, yeah, you should.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Uh and yeah. Not adding water to something that is
partially tempered by the fact that water only goes up
to one hundred degrees celsius is a really good way
to melt that, to melt that implement.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, yeah, listen, I've broken a French press and a
moca pot.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I've shattered more than one French press.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, it's so sad because you're so excited for the coffee.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
I've never broken one before I got the coffee out
of it.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
No, I definitely was excited for the coffee and it broke.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Oh if I had my coffee implement break before I
had had coffee, I would probably just start crying. That
would I would be like, well, I'm going back to bed,
and I'm never leaving like that.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
That's my sign. That's this day is useless to bed.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
I go.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, cats would be very happy. Eric wrote Shortening is
another one of those things that has an interesting history.
I always remember having a container of crisco around growing up.
The majority of the time we used it for greasing pans,
but there were a couple of recipes where it was
used as an ingredient. Years later, we had a recipe
for cookies that used the butter flavored crisco. While the
(41:15):
cookies were still good, I don't think they are as
good as ones using actual butter. Something about the actual
texture was just different enough that you go huh to
each of their own. As for castle At, I do
want to try one made by someone who grew up
with them. I've had various bean dishes that were castle inspired,
but really want a true castle at just to see.
(41:37):
I think it would hit really well. Now with this
huge cold snap, it is interesting to see how cotch
cheese is making the rounds. Again. I do like cottage
cheese and like seeing it used more, but why do
people think they need to cram it into everything? It
is a good product, but I really would like the
insanity to die down. I sometimes really wonder if people
have tasted what they made, or how much they're faking
(41:58):
it when they taste it. Hearing the Moga pot episode
reminded me that I need to get one still. I've
had Turkish and Greek coffee, and while this is not
the same, I think the consistency will be similar. Sheiso
is one of those ingredients that I've not had in
a while. I need to find a place that uses it.
After hearing the episode, more of those things that get
(42:18):
cravings started the cravings are real.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
The cravings are real. I haven't been able to get
chiso since we did that episode.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Oh no, yeah, oh, I forgot about it. I forgot
about it entirely. Now I was. I was like outsick
for like two weeks right after we did that episode.
So I haven't done anything but or nothing that involves
fresh produce anyway. Uh yeah, yeah, but I but I
have a trip to h Mart in the works. We're
planning it out. I think it's going to happen. Oh,
(42:52):
Scott too, yeah, Scott to.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Well, I've been loving hearing these different tales of crisco. Yes, yes,
just because I didn't have it in my house. So
I love hearing how the various ways you.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
All used to Yeah, I think I think I remember
it primarily being used right to grease pans, and then
in certain pie crests it would be the fat in
the pie crest. I think that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I can see that.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
I'll have to like ask my aunts or something. I'm
not sure how did we use crisco, Like figure out
what the stained recipes are and the recipe books that
I have from my family and see if they had
if they called for Crisco yes, yes, Also, yes, cassilet
(43:53):
would hit nicely in this weather.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Oh yeah, another craving satisfied.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, I'm so many cravings behind.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I do have cottage cheese. Yes, I purchased some immediately
after that episode. I haven't eaten it yet because I'm
deciding what I want to mix in with it. I
think avocado.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Interesting, Okay, yeah, avocado paprika.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Yeah that sounds yes, I think I think so.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, definitely, yes.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
But I mean it is true. Sometimes a product gets
caught up in the hype and it's in everything. But
I think cottage cheese deserves its space.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah. Yeah, it's got lasting power. Clearly, it's gonna it's
it's it's gonna even out.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, thank you to both of
these listeners. To write again. If you would like to
write to as you can or emails hello at savorpod
dot com.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
Instagram and blue Sky at saver pod and we do
hope to hear from you. Save is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(45:27):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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