April 3, 2026 • 53 mins
In the U.S., the National School Lunch Program helps feed over half of the nation’s students, creating a baseline for how (and what) millions of kids eat. Anney and Lauren serve up the history socialized school lunch programs.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reach.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about school lunches, primarily in the United States.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes, whoof we do well? Was there any particular reason
this was on your mind, Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's been. It's been on the list for a long time,
partially because, yeah, we were talking, oh gosh a while
ago now about how interesting, like the content of school
lunches around the United States and around the world really is,
and you know, like what goes into that, Like what
cultural and financial and other institutional considerations go into something
(00:53):
seemingly as simple as lunch for kids. And yeah, so
I figure, I don't know, why not make any really
miserable for a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
It was a headache inducing episode. It's history heavy, for sure,
history heavy, a lot of government documents and legal terms.
Who tried my best? Yeah, I think, you know, I
think we've got a pretty comprehensive general history of the
(01:29):
whole thing.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah, and right, And this this is not an
episode about like like the exact nutrition involved, because that
is a shifting and weird topic. And you know, like
it's not a look at what everywhere in the country
is doing with a school lunch program. It's also not
(01:53):
really an episode about what not like non public schools
are doing for school lunch is though I imagine that
they are vastly informed by that thing. So so, yeah,
we just have we have a number of future homework
assignments we do.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
The thing that I'm really sad that I personally didn't
get to go into was just what was offered at
different periods of time food wise, across the country, because
it was so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll have to do We'll have to
do like a follow up episode about some of those menus. Yeah,
And I would and especially write and try to incorporate
some of that stuff about in other places that are
not the United States as well. So start writing in
about that. Yes, please start writing in. I'm so interested
(02:53):
in this. In my own experience, I didn't often partake
in school lunches. Sometimes I was jealous.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Of it, yeah, because you know, I think it's a
grass is always greener. On the other side, I'm not
sure how happy I would have been with the school lunch,
but sometimes I'd be like, oh, they're having pizza.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, they're having nuggets, man, I want some chicken nugs.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Come on, Yeah, exactly exactly, But I did sometimes and
I was in marching band, and sometimes after school we
would get leftovers. I'm not even sure if we would
get stuff from the school lunch room. Usually it was frozen,
That's what I remember. Most it was frozen, and so
(03:43):
it wasn't quite edible. I did like when we would
go on field trips, they would pack as like the
brown sack lunches from the school. Those were hit or miss,
but there was something cool. There was something cool about
going on a field trip.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
But sure having this just something different.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, yes, And I was also thinking about the lunch room,
at least in my experience, was a place of sometimes rebellion.
So we had like what was called the red block okay,
and they put it down and that meant you weren't
(04:20):
you weren't allowed to.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Talk oh okay on.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Your table, and it would call us. It would cause
some issues. And then when I was in high school,
they shortened lunchtime from thirty minutes to twenty five and
because of the lines to get lunch, some people didn't
really have time to eat it. So we staged like
protests during the lunch and we wouldn't leave, and it
(04:45):
was just this whole thing that I remember of us
just sitting there, what teachers were yelling and just eating
our lunches, being like what, yeah, yeah, give us back
those five minutes. Come on.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, either that or figure out a better system for
feeding us, because y'all are the ones falling down here.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah yeah, power to the people.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't really ever partake in school
lunch either. Sometimes when I did, like summer camps, like
like day camps, uh, we would have school lunch style foods.
But yeah, yeah, no, I was a I was a
brown bagger all through school. And I was thinking about
(05:33):
it too. And the things that I remember from high
school were like a lot of vending machines with a
lot of at the time in the nineties, like really
unhealthy options, a lot of Snapple, my guys, a lot
of Snapple and uh, and also pizza Hut head set
(05:53):
up in the lines to get pizza from Pizza Hut
were wild and from from the actual kitchen. And again,
like I never really ate there, so I can't speak
to it, but there was this very particular smell that
I associate with it, which was a little bit like
mac and cheese and not really in a pleasant way. Okay,
(06:20):
And yeah, and I don't know, like I it's sort
of doing this episode, I got a little bit angry
and I got a little bit sad at different parts.
So school is rough. School is a rough time, and
it is difficult to feed a large number of people
(06:44):
in any circumstance. And I don't know's it's it's a
set of problems that we're still we're still working on.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yes, absolutely we are, and we're going to get into
some of that for sure. Goodness, uh huh who Okay,
So past episodes, I would say Southern style cafeteria cooking.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Sure, definitely adjacent cafeterias as cafeterias at a certain point.
Also we did an episode on food pantrees and or
soup kitchens. And then I feel like some of our
early episodes on dairy are probably important, Like particular episodes
on dairy, like maybe the American cheese like pasteurized process
(07:31):
cheese product episode, maybe about like milk and kid like
like the entire development of safe milk systems, which I
think is in the Expiration Dates episode yeah, stuff where
the United States dairy industry is heavily involved, those are
(07:52):
probably formational to this.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yes, I agree, I agree. Well, I guess that does
bring us to our question. Sure, school lunches, what are they? Well,
school lunches are lunches provided to kids at school under
(08:16):
the once radical concept that children are people and people
need to eat food. Perhaps obviously what this entails around
the world really depends on like cultural and legal definitions
of basically every part of that previous sentence, you know,
like what is lunch, what is provide, what's a kid,
(08:37):
what's a school? What's a food?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
We are, as I said, focusing in on the United
States today because that is where we live, although I
think right I do speak for all of us when
I say we would love to branch out to other
countries in the future.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So, in the US, the biggest source of lunches in
schools is the National School Lunch Program, which is this
government run program under the United States Department of Agriculture
or USDA, and the National School Lunch Program is meant
to provide healthy, affordable, more or less palatable lunches to
(09:18):
kids in public schools and nonprofit private schools. At the
pre k through twelfth grade level, which for our metric
using friends means ages like three to eighteen years from
this national program. States and school systems and individual schools
participate in various ways, like there are rules about nutrition
(09:43):
requirements and pricing for students, and schools can receive domestically
produced foods and or cash subsidies for participating, but what
actually gets served can really vary based on the cultural
preferences and like financial and workforce and production capacity of
(10:04):
any given school in case it is not clear. In
the United States, public schools are those that are taxpayer funded.
So yeah, just wanted to define that real quick, Okay. Basically,
the USDA has a set meal pattern wherein a lunch
has to offer five components a fruit, a vegetable, a
grain of protein, and milk. Yes, milk is one of
(10:26):
the five see above ree dairy episodes of the past.
Each component has to be offered in certain amounts, and
there are weekly requirements for like total calories and sodium
and saturated fats. But yeah, schools can prepare and cook
and serve foods on their own, or they can contract
(10:47):
with businesses that are essentially like specialized caterers, or a
little bit of both. The program is sometimes augmented and
or complicated by school's decisions to allow sales of commercial
snacks and drinks via vending machines and or allowing commercial
restaurants to vend on premises. You know, and this has
(11:10):
changed since I was a kid, But you know, like
drink machines with maybe bottled waters and low sugar beverages,
snack machines with like trail mix or granola bars, a
stand with yeah sure, pizza hut slices or personal pizzas,
stuff like that. It's a way for schools to earn
commissions from these big corporations and to get foods that
kids will actually eat in front of them. But there
(11:31):
are also a lot of considerations about like appropriate nutrition
and appropriate marketing practices to children. So what does all
of this look like in practice? Again, it really varies,
but generally it is considered best practice these days to
allow kids to pick and choose from, you know, even
a small variety of offerings, to encourage actual consumption and
(11:52):
to reduce food waste. Just for one example, I checked
out what some of my local public schools have on
the menu for the twenty twenty five school year in
my city and I live in a suburb of Atlanta.
It runs on a three week rotational schedule, with different
dishes available every day. So every day schools offer a
(12:13):
choice of a hotter cold entree, a choice of two
vegetable side dishes, an assortment of fruit, and a choice
of milk. Hot entreys include things like pizza, nachos, fish
nuggets with mac and cheese, chicken and waffles, curry chicken
with flat bread and rice, Nashville Hot chicken sandwich, or burgers, hamburger, cheeseburger,
black bean burger. Cold entrees on various days include a
(12:36):
turkey sandwich, peebian jay with a cheese stick on the side,
which is just part of it, I guess, a large salad,
or like snack packs. Vegetable sides include things like garlic,
green beans, fresh tomatoes and cucumbers, Caesar salad, roasted corn,
tater tots, or cuman black beans and so. Yeah. So
(12:58):
kids can pick up to one entree, up to two
fruit and two vegetables, and a milk and thus make
for themselves whatever kind of meal they want.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
That sounds so different than what I really I hope
it's good. I hope it's good because I feel like
mine was you get pizza or you're not.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Or you're not eating. Yeah, like maybe there's broccoli, I'm
not sure. Yeah, yeah, there might be tater tots yeah
maybe yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And then there's frozen milk.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
This temperature issue is interesting to me. Again, like I
never really encountered I never really used this program, but.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, the milk was always frozen every time I interacted
with it. Okay, cool? Yeah, Well what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Do not eat cultural institutions? Uh? Seriously though, like, like,
oh boy, folks have been arguing about nutrition in schools
forever for the entirety that this has been a thing.
To be fair, Nutrition is real complicated.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It is, and our understanding of it changes frequently.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Uh huh. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
That was influenced by both corporations and government.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
So yeah. Yeah. And also funding is difficult and our
food system is difficult.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So indeed, which we have a number for you.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah yeah, so okay. As of twenty nineteen, which was
the latest year that I could find, like across the
board numbers for the National School Lunch Program was involved
with serving some twenty nine point six million lunches to
kids around the country every day of school, not even
(15:06):
counting breakfasts or snacks or anything else. At the time,
there were about fifty five point four million students enrolled
in schools. So yeah, that's like a little more than
half of American students eating through the national program. That
does include some private school kids, of which there were
(15:26):
four point six million that year, but I don't have
precise statistics on that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, it's a lot, and the impact is pretty huge.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, no, I mean it's again kind
of radical concept during some times and for some humans,
but yeah, kids are people, and it turns out that
people do need to eat in order to succeed at
doing anything.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
So yep, yep. And there's been a lot of history
around that thought and what to do about it.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yes, yes, and we are going to get into that history.
But first we're going to get into a quick break
for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Okay. So a lot of the information in this outline
is from a USDA document detailing the history of school lunches.
Several other sources pulled from that too. I just wanted
to point that out because I don't love getting all
of my information from one source. Yeah, but it seemed
a pretty formative source.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The document in question is this booklet
that was written by one Gordon Gunderson and first published
in nineteen seventy one. I think Gunderson was this dude
who served in the USDA and in the like food
related school system of Wisconsin for thirty years, retiring in
(17:17):
nineteen sixty nine. So he was around for a lot
of the American developments that were going to get into
a little bit later in the outline. But he did
also write extensively about the European systems that you know,
partially inspired those developments.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So yes. So some of the earliest school lunches originated
in seventeen ninety in Munich, Germany. They were the brainchild
of Benjamin Thompson, who also went by the title Count Rumford.
Rumford was an American born physicist who relocated to Europe
in seventeen seventy six.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, he was a British loyalist who like served in
the British forces during the American Revolution. So yeah, seventeen
seventy six, moving on makes sense, makes sense.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Also, an interesting fellow. As Lauren and I were discussing, I.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Really want to do an episode on him now, and
I'm not positive he's come up before he has. In
addition to the food Pantries episode, you can also see
our episodes about bullion and induction cooking to learn a
little bit more about him. If that gives you any
kind of clue, I don't know if it should.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
That tells you how much he was involved in Okay,
So eventually he made his way to Germany. While there,
he launched a program called the Poor People's Institute. This
is a program where impoverished adults made clothes for the
army in exchange for food inclose of their own children
(18:52):
worked at certain hours too, but in between they got
lessons in reading, writing, and arithmetic. The food was primarily
a fairly basic soup with vegetables and grains, potatoes, barley,
something like that. Meat was too expensive to go into
these dishes. Allegedly, Rumford wanted to provide the most nutritious
(19:13):
meals at the lowest cost he could achieve, a goal
that was fueled in part due to a lack of
funding for his work. He went on to help establish
similar programs in other European countries like England, France, and Switzerland.
Some of these manifested in soup kitchens that drew tens
of thousands of people a day because of the number
(19:35):
of people they were trying to feed. Rumford wanted to
find ways to speed up and scale up food production,
and he is credited with inventing things like the kitchen range,
the double boiler, the drip coffee pot, and just a
whole bunch of stuff. We really should come back and
talk about him.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, probably fascinating guy. Anyway, Okay, throughout the eighteen hundreds,
a lot of developments happened, well, I mean, like in
a lot of stuff, you know, like the Industrial Revolution
was in full swing. Partially because of the Industrial Revolution,
different cultures were really reckoning with what education could and
(20:20):
should mean. You know. Traditionally in Europe and its colonies,
like the US, education was something mostly for rich people
or for people training for church service, right, But around
this time there was a lot of thought and work
going into expanding education for everyone as a sort of
(20:42):
public service. There were what's called normal schools being set
up to train teachers in like a relatively standardized set
of curricula and government funded schools were slowly becoming more common.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Right and beginning in the eighteen seventies, in Germany, several
organizations offered clothing, food, and education to children. By eighteen
ninety six, a report looking into government backing of food
programs like these was gathering interest, and the next year
a bill was introduced calling for the government to fund
(21:19):
school meals in German cities. It didn't pass due to
concerns that a bunch of people would flock to the
cities because of it, but some local legislations were able
to get a pass on a smaller level. While visiting Germany,
France's Victor Hugo apparently was inspired by these programs, contributing
(21:41):
some of his own money in eighteen sixty five. In
eighteen seventy one, a program designed to feed hungry school
children launched in France. After a series of schools received
excess funding from various government organizations, a law was passed
in eighteen sixty seven that authorized these funds four schools
across France. Those funds were meant to cover a variety
(22:04):
of things, including school lunches. A decade later, Paris started
opening school canteens for the children of those on the
poor board list. These were largely funded by the public.
The program soon spread across Paris and government contributions increased,
(22:25):
eventually covering the whole thing, and any child could participate.
Children who could pay paid for the food, not the labor,
but the food, and those who couldn't didn't pay, and
it was all kept anonymous through a sort of voucher system. Yes,
Lauren and I were discussing this beforehand, but it's very complicated,
(22:45):
these kind of charts of like who can pay and
who can't pay?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah to this day, also right, yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Meanwhile, over in England, thanks to the efforts of hundreds
of charity organizations, Parliament passed the Education or Provision of
Meals Act in nineteen oh five. This was in part
due to concerns over the physical fitness of the population,
especially when it came to soldiers. A commission was appointed
(23:17):
to look into this issue and determined that the lack
of nutrition in children was the most pressing problem, and
they recommended putting in place an inexpensive school lunch program
to combat the whole thing. A couple of other committees
found the same issue was the problem, which led to
this nineteen oh five law. It was amended in nineteen
(23:40):
fourteen to provide lunches during vacation times as well. Free
or very cheap milk got added into the mix in
nineteen thirty four. Throughout the early nineteen hundreds, a lot
of other European countries followed suit. For example, Holland enacted
a national legislation around providing school lunches in nineteen hundred.
(24:02):
Around the same time, a Swiss investigation found that teachers
reported students did better scholastically and were more likely to
attend school if lunch was provided, which led to government
funds going to supply children in need with clothes and lunch.
Further research led to recommendations about the nutrition recommendations of
(24:23):
the food provided. Norway started offering breakfast on top of
lunch and the results showed a lot of promise. So
people were looking into this. They were really looking into
the nutrition and the impact it had on education and
physical well being. Yeah, and this brings us to the US.
(24:45):
The US followed a somewhat similar path after most states
introduced compulsory education by the end of the eighteen hundreds.
It started with the smattering of localized organizations taking the
helm home. One of the first was an eighteen fifty
three effort to serve lunches to children attending a vocational
(25:06):
school that was undertaken by the Children's Aid Society of
New York, but that never really expanded beyond that. In
these early days, there were generally four main way students,
eight lunch homeschoolers, eight at home yep boarding school students,
eightth school Students in cities went home for lunch, and
(25:30):
students in rural areas either went home or ate a
lunch brought from home. Some of us did start to
shift in their early nineteen hundreds as more and more
women were able to obtain some kind of employment and
they couldn't prepare lunch for their children, so they instead
gave them a small allowance to buy from a food
(25:51):
cart or store. I found this really interesting because in
my school you were not allowed to leave for lunch.
That was like a big sin.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You could say, yeah, yeah, it really depends based on
where you're located and what everyone's situation is like.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yes, yes, but that was what it was like at
the time. A couple of cities were experimenting with school
lunch programs soon after, including Philadelphia and Boston. A lot
of these programs had a lot of back and forth
about who should provide and manage the lunches, usually landing
on the school board itself, and just to note, a
(26:29):
lot of women's organizations were spearheading the push.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
For all of this share.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
There was also much discussion around nutrition. More and more
cities launched their own programs, often collecting data as they
did so these programs could look a lot of different ways.
Some offered breakfast, some a la carte. People were trying
all kinds of things, not to mention the different types
(26:59):
of food. As I said, if we had time, that's
what I would do right now. And it was really
interesting too because some of the schools had calorie requirements,
so they'd list the calories and the foods, and the
kids had to make sure to do the math and
meet them. So it'd be like, you can get one
item here and one item here, but you have.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
To meet Yes, yeah, an apple, is this? A sandwich
is worth this? Make sure that you add enough other
calories to make up your totalchloric requirement. This was also
a time when a lot of research was being done
into nutritional science and so yeah, so the concept of
just pure calories was like new and exciting.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
It was. I also read a funny complaint from a
teacher from the time that said, they always choose the
dessert because it's got the most calories, and you.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Just feel like that was and it's dessert.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, so it's kind of backfiring in that way.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Her slightly flawed mathematics there, but sure, yes, or science there. Yeah,
the math holds up.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
It makes so much sense though when she said that,
I was nodding my head. Of course they went for
the dessert.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Meanwhile, rural areas struggled establishing such programs due to lack
of space for a kitchen and or dining area, and
the distances the students traveled to arrive at the school,
so if they were bringing food from home, it could
freeze in certain environments. There was a lot of there's
a lot of consideration about how do we heat food
(28:39):
in this school?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
One of the things that brought the issue of children
and hunger to the forefront of the American public was
the nineteen oh four book Poverty by Robert Hunter, in
which he wrote very passionately about the importance of making
sure a child has the proper nutrition to grow, and
how vital it was to learning. He argued that it
(29:03):
made no sense to have a while requiring children to
go to school if they weren't going to learn anything
because they were hungry. It makes yes, perfect, perfect sense. Yep,
perfect sense. So we've got a hodgepodge of programs funded
in part by local governments and philanthropic organizations, and we've
(29:26):
got growing concern over child malnutrition in the US, something
that only increased during the Great Depression in the nineteen thirties.
And this is when we start seeing state legislation and
federal aid enter the picture. But this too was kind
of sporadic and not at all standardized, not at all standards.
(29:49):
Another result of the Great Depression an ever growing surplus
of products grown on American farms, coinciding with an increase
of children who couldn't afford school. In nineteen thirty six,
the US government enacted legislation promoting the consumption of the
surplus products within the country by funneling some of these
(30:09):
products out of the typical trade in sales spaces and
turned the USDA purchased some of these goods and allocated
them to things like school lunches. So essentially they were
buying up some of the surplus, helping to even out
the price for the farmers and providing.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
For exciting fo Yeah yep.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
The Works Progress Administration or WPA, got involved in school
lunches in nineteen thirty five, employing largely women to cook,
assemble meals, make menus, come up with guidelines and sanitary
practices for school lunches all over the country. Since the
cost of that wasn't coming out of the budget of
the school, the price of the lunch remained low, and
(30:51):
the number of schools offering lunches grew across the country.
They were in all states, Washington, d C. And Puerto
Rico by nineteen forty one. One. Then we get World
War two. World War two pretty much shut down the
WPA and siphoned up all of the surplus from the farms.
(31:13):
This majorly impacted the number of schools offering lunches and
the quality of the lunches that were served. There were
some efforts to fix the situation, but it was a
year to year question of funding, which, as we know,
not ideal.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, nope, not ideal.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So In nineteen forty six, the National School Lunch Act
was passed, permanently allocating funding and not relying solely on
farming surpluses. There is a lot of complicated legalies around it,
but essentially it required that lunches be free or at
(31:54):
reduced cost, that it was nonprofit, and that surpluses be
utilized for these school lunches when't possible. There was a
bunch of other things, but main takeaways. Yeah yeah, just
like what happened in Europe. While there was an emphasis
on education, there was also an emphasis on how proper
(32:17):
nutrition would have children ready for war and more able
to resist communism.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah yeah, Like it was explicitly stated in the act
that this was and I quote a measure of national security.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yep. And speaking of communism. When trying to pass this act,
some politicians argued it was the dreaded socialism or communism.
Some made arguments about segregation too, since it was meant
to be non discriminatory. Anyone can get it. By the way,
(32:53):
nineteen forty six is also around the time we get
the molded cafeteria trade, which a lot of us associate.
We school just sure, National School Lunch Week was established
in nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yep, this is an event that still happens every year.
It's in the second full school week of October every year,
and it features it's trying just trying to get people
excited and participating in the school lunch program. Features like
special menus and events and activities. There's a theme every year.
(33:28):
For twenty twenty six, it's Cafeteria Circus.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I'm so curious.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I think I think the concept is that is that,
like a ring master, a school is coordinating many different
acts in order to try to bring the fun experience
of a school lunch together. Okay, creative, sure, fun.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Listeners write in, I don't remember this at all. Might
have just been off my radar. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Oh, I feel like this is pinging like a very
distant bell, maybe from either middle school or hype. Maybe
middle school. Like in the cafeteria, like there would be
like a poster competition every year to like follow the
theme in some way. Maybe that was a different goofy
school participation thing. I'm not sure. Wow, Wow, that just
(34:35):
dredged up really really old memories.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's great. People do have a lot of memories about
school lunches, even if you didn't really partake.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I find sure no cafeteria culture alone is woof deah.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, and just sitting in that lunch room. Yeah, as
a kid, it's a lot of drama and politics. Oh yeah,
where you sit? Oh yeah, I was eating what? Yeah? Well, Still,
there was continued conversation about nutrition. There were pilot breakfast programs,
(35:13):
there were milk programs. There was some inconsistency about what
should and shouldn't be provided. Some schools didn't have the
facilities to make lunches on site. These inconsistencies largely impacted
those who could not afford to pay for their lunches
or bring their own. It didn't help that the funding
was inadequate. Pushes continued to look more into nutrition and
(35:37):
the importance it had on learning, but on top of
that concerns that school lunches didn't meet nutritional standards and
were contributing to obesity. There were arguments about whether or
not private companies should be involved at all. Vending machines
huge topic of conversation. Fast food companies got in the
(35:57):
mix and seventies which, by the way, I did not
know that this was a thing. I'm so shocked that
you had a pizza hut. Yeah, that's that was not
happening at my school.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
It might have been like specific days or something like.
I had very little pocket money as a kid, so
I didn't like, I never bought anything from any of
these sources, so I don't have extremely specific memories about it.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
But yeah, yeah, And there was also conversation about how
these meals were involved in americanizing the diet of immigrants,
since the offerings were pretty much traditional American foods. From
what I read, cafeteria pizza entered the school lunch seen
(36:40):
in the seventies, which I know a lot of people
have memories of.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
This is a very specific format of pizza, like like
there are recipes that the USDA puts together and distributes
that have been like approved as part of the meal pattern,
you know, and this specific type of pizza is a
very nostalgic thing for a lot of humans. I feel
(37:07):
like we should do a whole at least many episode
about that one.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
We should. I found so many articles people being like
the square pizza, you remember it well. The nineteen eighties
saw a lot of controversy and classifications of types of
foods when it came to school lunches, ketchup and pickle
relish as vegetables for instance.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
It was largely a cost cutting move on the government's part,
and the people were not happy. It was kind of
a whole mess, and then President Reagan canceled the whole thing,
seemingly throwing the person who actually wanted to cancel it
under the bus. Classic Reagan, classic Ragon. Yeah, he was
(37:59):
like sky, Yes, that is another thing that could be
a whole mini episode for sure. This was mirrored in
the UK when during the eighties Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
and her Conservative Party were accused of milk snatching. They
allowed for private contractors to enter the market of school lunches,
(38:24):
and they lowered the cost by decreasing nutritional standards. A
lot of fried foods became the norm.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
So.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Very similar to what was going on in US.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, fried or at the very least like baked, but
probably not that healthy anyway.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah. Yes. Meanwhile, I read in the nineteen nineties more
options were being offered depending on where in the United
States you were students were located, including made to order
sandwiches and deli bars. President Obama passed the Healthy Hunger
(39:06):
Free Kids Act in twenty ten, which was a passion
of First Lady Michelle Obamas for more kids to have
access to healthier school lunches while limiting vending machine sales.
This got a lot of backlash from conservatives, but really
it is in line with the long history of thoughts
around nutrition and school lunches.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah yeah, and especially in backlash to kind of everything
that was going on in the eighties and nineties that
was not great for nutrition.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Exactly. And once again, the UK had a similar thing
happen in two thousand and five after a four part
series called Jamie's School Dinners aired on Channel four. The
series examined the low nutritional value of these meals and
the fallout of them on health than education for the children.
(40:02):
The Turkey Twizzler in particular, came under fire. Turkey Twizzler,
The turkey Twizzler, Lauren, This is a sort of curly
strip of fried turkey. It looks like a curly fry,
but the rings are thicker.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Okay, sure, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
After this aired, there was a push to offer healthier
options for students. In response, some schools banned junk foods,
including the turkey Twizzler. Lrip and this also continues. I
believe there was a legislation in twenty fifteen to keep improving, yeah,
(40:45):
the nutrition of school lunches in the UK. During the pandemic,
many school meal programs began offering pickup school lunch off rings.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, yeah, which is a great yeah, and and right,
this is all absolutely out andgoing Updates continue to be
made to both the nutrition and the money ends of
the National School Lunch Program here in the United States,
And I would imagine everywhere everywhere that school lunches are
a thing, you know, like like as we as we
(41:22):
rethink or or learn more about what nutrition means, and
as we kind of reckon with what kind of resources
are available two kids, and how to make sure that
we give everybody, you know, an opportunity to not be
hungry in school man. You know, uh, just yeah, just
(41:42):
just a lot of work is still being.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Done, yes, yeah, And we really would love to hear
from you listeners, not only about what it's like in
different countries, just the things that were offered.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
The memories, yeah yeah, what dishes you remember, yeah yeah,
the entire culture of school cafeterias.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Oh my goodness, did you have a red block? Was
it a space for protesters.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, yeah, no, we're so curious about all of this,
and we'll have to do a few follow up episodes,
I think. But but yeah, I think that is what
we have to say about school lunches for now.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yes, I think so.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we're going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Here, we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back on the snuner. I wanted to do like
an Arthur theme, but I couldn't. There's so many things
I can't communicate.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Uh, to be fair, I was entirely too old for
Arthur by the time it occurred. So you would have
you would have missed me that that Yeah, I mean,
I'm aware that that it's a thing, but like, you know, what.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
A wonderful kind of day, Lauren, that show, like you know,
the things that are in your brain and you just
can't get rid of that show that's there.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
From what I understand, it's a good one to have
back there.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, yes, yes, okay, Carla wrote, I've been listening to
Savor for a few years. Now. I love the way
the two of you interact with each other and provide
an entertaining, end formative look at so many different foods
and food related experiences. You've sent me on quite a
few journeys in my own kitchen exploring a new fruit, vegetable, cheese,
(44:09):
or condiment. But this is the first time I've written
I just listened to your episode on Jola Frice. While
Savor is a frequent inspiration for me to try new foods,
there are others as well. I was reading books by
Nigerian American authors and the TV series Bob Hart's ab
Shola that nudged me to try making jolafrice at home
(44:31):
a couple of years ago. When I explore recipes that
aren't part of my personal heritage, I try to avoid
Food Network, celebrity chefs and other sites where there may
be more innovation and less authenticity. Instead, I look for
sites with an authentic connection to the recipe, and looking
for a recipe for Jola frice, I discovered Chef Lola's Kitchen.
(44:51):
Chef Lola ausen Kulu is a Nigerian food blogger whose
recipe for joelaf I've made and enjoyed several times now.
Even though it takes a little work, it's not too
difficult if you read the recipe all the way through
first and watch Chef Lola's video. Her jola rice is
a warm, comforting, filling dish. If anyone is looking for
(45:12):
an authentic Nigerian jola recipe to try at home, I
highly recommend Chef Loola's Well. First of all, so glad
that you've been listening for years. Yeah it's your first
time writing. Yeah, welcome hello, Yes, welcome in Hello. I
think this is great advice to seek out, not like
(45:34):
food Network, which can be a great resource, sure, sure,
but to look forward, you know, off the beaten path
where it might be you'll find something that isn't the
Disney version maybe yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
And someone who seems to be speaking from personal experience
about something is always is always a great resource.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yes, I believe the recipe I use for when I
make Oxdale stew I really went out of my way
to be like, I want somebody from this place that
makes it a lot and where it's a traditional dish
and it's I love it. It's one of my favorite I've.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Never made oxtaiale stew Okay, all right, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
I feel like your homework list is just getting longer
and longer.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Oh, yes, welcomed. Yes, it doesn't help that I'm a
food podcaster.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
It's true, that's true.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I have been avoiding oxtail just because, like I, every
time I see them, I'm like, oh, that's a little expensive.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
They're so expensive. Yeah, I feel like when I was
making it, they were not.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Oh okayh yeah. Yeah. So that that's the kind of
thing that makes me go, oh, maybe I'll just maybe
I'll just do a.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Nice rego again.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
That's fine, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, yes, but thank you for the tip. Yes, I
haven't had allow for us since we did that episode,
so me neither.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Oh and this looks yeah, and I'll definitely check out
chefalo Li's kitchen. That sounds man good good. Internet chefs
are so nice mm hmmm mmming. So lovely about watching
someone else cook.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yes, there's a little sadness at the end when you're
not eating it, but until then, it's very lovely.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
We need that Wonka vision. Yeah, yeah, Sheldon wrote, Sometimes
I get into slumps and can't think of something to
make for supper. It was like that this morning, and
I was racking my brain trying to think of something
to make. I wake up early and listen to podcasts
while my wife sleeps, and your non episode came on. Yes,
I haven't made none in a while. Fresh baked non
(47:52):
with some curry will make a great supper, so thanks
again for kicking my brain. When I make them, I
add a touch of whole wheat flour, and I use
buttermil consider of yogurt because I always have some of
that around, and buttermilk contains bacteria poop, just like yogurt.
I have a gas powered pizza oven on my deck
in the back, and it gets up to nine hundred
degrees fahrenheit. It's fantastic for cooking non and pita and
(48:15):
bagels and pizza two. I make a small batch of dough,
just enough of my wife and I I roll them
out in the kitchen. Then when the supper is ready,
I go out back and cook them. I do one
at a time. I toss it in and within ten
seconds it puffs right up and is finished in thirty
to forty five seconds. I wonder if you should do
a show on those ovens, which have become quite popular
(48:36):
over the past five years or so. They're a game
changer for home pizza making, and they're useful for many
other things. Also Pet tax, my son holding Teat Poulet,
Teat Polet being a cat previously featured in a pet
tax in this In this photograph, Teat pole At is
(48:59):
where a little blue, spiky hood, and he looks extremely
disappointed in all of the humans involved. He's he is
a very handsome tabby cat. I think I've got the
(49:20):
right gender. It's a cat. Cats don't really have gender norms.
The little blue bonnet is very cute, anti Pole does
not appreciate it in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
No, the gaze is murderous. Oh.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I love an angry cat wearing a little bonnet. It's
one of the deepest joys in my life.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
The cat is thinking about revenge.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Oh heck.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
In this photo it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Yeah, I mean, I'm grateful for the photo, but I'm
also uh, I'm also my dear friend. This cat knows
where you sleep. It's clearly plotting. Plotting. Yeah, I love
how people are like cats are expressionless, and I'm like,
(50:16):
have you met one? They might not have many expressions, but.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
The ones they have communicate clearly you done messed up
for it, You'll be paying for it.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Goodness. Well.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Also also a pizza pizza ovens. Yes, little little gas
powered pizza ovens. Yeah, so cool. I've never used one.
One of my friends got one and then like kind
of immediately broke it. Yeah. Yeah, it was a well
meaning third party friend tried to cool it down by
(51:00):
splashing water on it when it was way too hot
to do that, and it just cracked. It just went
war wound. Oh no, yeah, but uh so that's my experience.
But uh but yeah, No, they are fantastic.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
I'm very jealous of anybody who has when I'm sad
for someone who loses one in such a way. But no,
I'm very jealous. And I do love that you listen
to the podcast and we're like, non.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
Is what there?
Speaker 1 (51:31):
We go do?
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Perfect?
Speaker 1 (51:33):
And I you also sending pictures of you making the non,
and I really appreciate that there's snow yeah in the background.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I didn't even scroll down here. I am mm.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Hmmm, just making non with a snowy background. Thirty to
forty five seconds. There you go. Delightful, delightful, gred Oh
my gosh, jealousy once again.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah, this Wonka vision thing that we were talking about
a second ago, here it is. Yeah, we need it.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
We need it, we do, we do, but we do
appreciate feeling the jealousy. Don't yet stop you no, So
thank you to both of these listeners for writing it.
If you would like to write to us, you can.
Our email is Hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
Instagram and blue Sky at savor pod, and we do
hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(52:49):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reach.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about school lunches, primarily in the United States.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes, whoof we do well? Was there any particular reason
this was on your mind, Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's been. It's been on the list for a long time,
partially because, yeah, we were talking, oh gosh a while
ago now about how interesting, like the content of school
lunches around the United States and around the world really is,
and you know, like what goes into that, Like what
cultural and financial and other institutional considerations go into something
(00:53):
seemingly as simple as lunch for kids. And yeah, so
I figure, I don't know, why not make any really
miserable for a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
It was a headache inducing episode. It's history heavy, for sure,
history heavy, a lot of government documents and legal terms.
Who tried my best? Yeah, I think, you know, I
think we've got a pretty comprehensive general history of the
(01:29):
whole thing.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah, and right, And this this is not an
episode about like like the exact nutrition involved, because that
is a shifting and weird topic. And you know, like
it's not a look at what everywhere in the country
is doing with a school lunch program. It's also not
(01:53):
really an episode about what not like non public schools
are doing for school lunch is though I imagine that
they are vastly informed by that thing. So so, yeah,
we just have we have a number of future homework
assignments we do.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
The thing that I'm really sad that I personally didn't
get to go into was just what was offered at
different periods of time food wise, across the country, because
it was so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll have to do We'll have to
do like a follow up episode about some of those menus. Yeah,
And I would and especially write and try to incorporate
some of that stuff about in other places that are
not the United States as well. So start writing in
about that. Yes, please start writing in. I'm so interested
(02:53):
in this. In my own experience, I didn't often partake
in school lunches. Sometimes I was jealous.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Of it, yeah, because you know, I think it's a
grass is always greener. On the other side, I'm not
sure how happy I would have been with the school lunch,
but sometimes I'd be like, oh, they're having pizza.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, they're having nuggets, man, I want some chicken nugs.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Come on, Yeah, exactly exactly, But I did sometimes and
I was in marching band, and sometimes after school we
would get leftovers. I'm not even sure if we would
get stuff from the school lunch room. Usually it was frozen,
That's what I remember. Most it was frozen, and so
(03:43):
it wasn't quite edible. I did like when we would
go on field trips, they would pack as like the
brown sack lunches from the school. Those were hit or miss,
but there was something cool. There was something cool about
going on a field trip.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
But sure having this just something different.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, yes, And I was also thinking about the lunch room,
at least in my experience, was a place of sometimes rebellion.
So we had like what was called the red block okay,
and they put it down and that meant you weren't
(04:20):
you weren't allowed to.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Talk oh okay on.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Your table, and it would call us. It would cause
some issues. And then when I was in high school,
they shortened lunchtime from thirty minutes to twenty five and
because of the lines to get lunch, some people didn't
really have time to eat it. So we staged like
protests during the lunch and we wouldn't leave, and it
(04:45):
was just this whole thing that I remember of us
just sitting there, what teachers were yelling and just eating
our lunches, being like what, yeah, yeah, give us back
those five minutes. Come on.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, either that or figure out a better system for
feeding us, because y'all are the ones falling down here.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah yeah, power to the people.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't really ever partake in school
lunch either. Sometimes when I did, like summer camps, like
like day camps, uh, we would have school lunch style foods.
But yeah, yeah, no, I was a I was a
brown bagger all through school. And I was thinking about
(05:33):
it too. And the things that I remember from high
school were like a lot of vending machines with a
lot of at the time in the nineties, like really
unhealthy options, a lot of Snapple, my guys, a lot
of Snapple and uh, and also pizza Hut head set
(05:53):
up in the lines to get pizza from Pizza Hut
were wild and from from the actual kitchen. And again,
like I never really ate there, so I can't speak
to it, but there was this very particular smell that
I associate with it, which was a little bit like
mac and cheese and not really in a pleasant way. Okay,
(06:20):
And yeah, and I don't know, like I it's sort
of doing this episode, I got a little bit angry
and I got a little bit sad at different parts.
So school is rough. School is a rough time, and
it is difficult to feed a large number of people
(06:44):
in any circumstance. And I don't know's it's it's a
set of problems that we're still we're still working on.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yes, absolutely we are, and we're going to get into
some of that for sure. Goodness, uh huh who Okay,
So past episodes, I would say Southern style cafeteria cooking.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Sure, definitely adjacent cafeterias as cafeterias at a certain point.
Also we did an episode on food pantrees and or
soup kitchens. And then I feel like some of our
early episodes on dairy are probably important, Like particular episodes
on dairy, like maybe the American cheese like pasteurized process
(07:31):
cheese product episode, maybe about like milk and kid like
like the entire development of safe milk systems, which I
think is in the Expiration Dates episode yeah, stuff where
the United States dairy industry is heavily involved, those are
(07:52):
probably formational to this.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yes, I agree, I agree. Well, I guess that does
bring us to our question. Sure, school lunches, what are they? Well,
school lunches are lunches provided to kids at school under
(08:16):
the once radical concept that children are people and people
need to eat food. Perhaps obviously what this entails around
the world really depends on like cultural and legal definitions
of basically every part of that previous sentence, you know,
like what is lunch, what is provide, what's a kid,
(08:37):
what's a school? What's a food?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
We are, as I said, focusing in on the United
States today because that is where we live, although I
think right I do speak for all of us when
I say we would love to branch out to other
countries in the future.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So, in the US, the biggest source of lunches in
schools is the National School Lunch Program, which is this
government run program under the United States Department of Agriculture
or USDA, and the National School Lunch Program is meant
to provide healthy, affordable, more or less palatable lunches to
(09:18):
kids in public schools and nonprofit private schools. At the
pre k through twelfth grade level, which for our metric
using friends means ages like three to eighteen years from
this national program. States and school systems and individual schools
participate in various ways, like there are rules about nutrition
(09:43):
requirements and pricing for students, and schools can receive domestically
produced foods and or cash subsidies for participating, but what
actually gets served can really vary based on the cultural
preferences and like financial and workforce and production capacity of
(10:04):
any given school in case it is not clear. In
the United States, public schools are those that are taxpayer funded.
So yeah, just wanted to define that real quick, Okay. Basically,
the USDA has a set meal pattern wherein a lunch
has to offer five components a fruit, a vegetable, a
grain of protein, and milk. Yes, milk is one of
(10:26):
the five see above ree dairy episodes of the past.
Each component has to be offered in certain amounts, and
there are weekly requirements for like total calories and sodium
and saturated fats. But yeah, schools can prepare and cook
and serve foods on their own, or they can contract
(10:47):
with businesses that are essentially like specialized caterers, or a
little bit of both. The program is sometimes augmented and
or complicated by school's decisions to allow sales of commercial
snacks and drinks via vending machines and or allowing commercial
restaurants to vend on premises. You know, and this has
(11:10):
changed since I was a kid, But you know, like
drink machines with maybe bottled waters and low sugar beverages,
snack machines with like trail mix or granola bars, a
stand with yeah sure, pizza hut slices or personal pizzas,
stuff like that. It's a way for schools to earn
commissions from these big corporations and to get foods that
kids will actually eat in front of them. But there
(11:31):
are also a lot of considerations about like appropriate nutrition
and appropriate marketing practices to children. So what does all
of this look like in practice? Again, it really varies,
but generally it is considered best practice these days to
allow kids to pick and choose from, you know, even
a small variety of offerings, to encourage actual consumption and
(11:52):
to reduce food waste. Just for one example, I checked
out what some of my local public schools have on
the menu for the twenty twenty five school year in
my city and I live in a suburb of Atlanta.
It runs on a three week rotational schedule, with different
dishes available every day. So every day schools offer a
(12:13):
choice of a hotter cold entree, a choice of two
vegetable side dishes, an assortment of fruit, and a choice
of milk. Hot entreys include things like pizza, nachos, fish
nuggets with mac and cheese, chicken and waffles, curry chicken
with flat bread and rice, Nashville Hot chicken sandwich, or burgers, hamburger, cheeseburger,
black bean burger. Cold entrees on various days include a
(12:36):
turkey sandwich, peebian jay with a cheese stick on the side,
which is just part of it, I guess, a large salad,
or like snack packs. Vegetable sides include things like garlic,
green beans, fresh tomatoes and cucumbers, Caesar salad, roasted corn,
tater tots, or cuman black beans and so. Yeah. So
(12:58):
kids can pick up to one entree, up to two
fruit and two vegetables, and a milk and thus make
for themselves whatever kind of meal they want.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
That sounds so different than what I really I hope
it's good. I hope it's good because I feel like
mine was you get pizza or you're not.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Or you're not eating. Yeah, like maybe there's broccoli, I'm
not sure. Yeah, yeah, there might be tater tots yeah
maybe yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And then there's frozen milk.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
This temperature issue is interesting to me. Again, like I
never really encountered I never really used this program, but.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, the milk was always frozen every time I interacted
with it. Okay, cool? Yeah, Well what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Do not eat cultural institutions? Uh? Seriously though, like, like,
oh boy, folks have been arguing about nutrition in schools
forever for the entirety that this has been a thing.
To be fair, Nutrition is real complicated.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It is, and our understanding of it changes frequently.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Uh huh. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
That was influenced by both corporations and government.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
So yeah. Yeah. And also funding is difficult and our
food system is difficult.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So indeed, which we have a number for you.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah yeah, so okay. As of twenty nineteen, which was
the latest year that I could find, like across the
board numbers for the National School Lunch Program was involved
with serving some twenty nine point six million lunches to
kids around the country every day of school, not even
(15:06):
counting breakfasts or snacks or anything else. At the time,
there were about fifty five point four million students enrolled
in schools. So yeah, that's like a little more than
half of American students eating through the national program. That
does include some private school kids, of which there were
(15:26):
four point six million that year, but I don't have
precise statistics on that.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, it's a lot, and the impact is pretty huge.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, no, I mean it's again kind
of radical concept during some times and for some humans,
but yeah, kids are people, and it turns out that
people do need to eat in order to succeed at
doing anything.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
So yep, yep. And there's been a lot of history
around that thought and what to do about it.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yes, yes, and we are going to get into that history.
But first we're going to get into a quick break
for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Okay. So a lot of the information in this outline
is from a USDA document detailing the history of school lunches.
Several other sources pulled from that too. I just wanted
to point that out because I don't love getting all
of my information from one source. Yeah, but it seemed
a pretty formative source.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The document in question is this booklet
that was written by one Gordon Gunderson and first published
in nineteen seventy one. I think Gunderson was this dude
who served in the USDA and in the like food
related school system of Wisconsin for thirty years, retiring in
(17:17):
nineteen sixty nine. So he was around for a lot
of the American developments that were going to get into
a little bit later in the outline. But he did
also write extensively about the European systems that you know,
partially inspired those developments.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So yes. So some of the earliest school lunches originated
in seventeen ninety in Munich, Germany. They were the brainchild
of Benjamin Thompson, who also went by the title Count Rumford.
Rumford was an American born physicist who relocated to Europe
in seventeen seventy six.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, he was a British loyalist who like served in
the British forces during the American Revolution. So yeah, seventeen
seventy six, moving on makes sense, makes sense.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Also, an interesting fellow. As Lauren and I were discussing, I.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Really want to do an episode on him now, and
I'm not positive he's come up before he has. In
addition to the food Pantries episode, you can also see
our episodes about bullion and induction cooking to learn a
little bit more about him. If that gives you any
kind of clue, I don't know if it should.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
That tells you how much he was involved in Okay,
So eventually he made his way to Germany. While there,
he launched a program called the Poor People's Institute. This
is a program where impoverished adults made clothes for the
army in exchange for food inclose of their own children
(18:52):
worked at certain hours too, but in between they got
lessons in reading, writing, and arithmetic. The food was primarily
a fairly basic soup with vegetables and grains, potatoes, barley,
something like that. Meat was too expensive to go into
these dishes. Allegedly, Rumford wanted to provide the most nutritious
(19:13):
meals at the lowest cost he could achieve, a goal
that was fueled in part due to a lack of
funding for his work. He went on to help establish
similar programs in other European countries like England, France, and Switzerland.
Some of these manifested in soup kitchens that drew tens
of thousands of people a day because of the number
(19:35):
of people they were trying to feed. Rumford wanted to
find ways to speed up and scale up food production,
and he is credited with inventing things like the kitchen range,
the double boiler, the drip coffee pot, and just a
whole bunch of stuff. We really should come back and
talk about him.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, probably fascinating guy. Anyway, Okay, throughout the eighteen hundreds,
a lot of developments happened, well, I mean, like in
a lot of stuff, you know, like the Industrial Revolution
was in full swing. Partially because of the Industrial Revolution,
different cultures were really reckoning with what education could and
(20:20):
should mean. You know. Traditionally in Europe and its colonies,
like the US, education was something mostly for rich people
or for people training for church service, right, But around
this time there was a lot of thought and work
going into expanding education for everyone as a sort of
(20:42):
public service. There were what's called normal schools being set
up to train teachers in like a relatively standardized set
of curricula and government funded schools were slowly becoming more common.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Right and beginning in the eighteen seventies, in Germany, several
organizations offered clothing, food, and education to children. By eighteen
ninety six, a report looking into government backing of food
programs like these was gathering interest, and the next year
a bill was introduced calling for the government to fund
(21:19):
school meals in German cities. It didn't pass due to
concerns that a bunch of people would flock to the
cities because of it, but some local legislations were able
to get a pass on a smaller level. While visiting Germany,
France's Victor Hugo apparently was inspired by these programs, contributing
(21:41):
some of his own money in eighteen sixty five. In
eighteen seventy one, a program designed to feed hungry school
children launched in France. After a series of schools received
excess funding from various government organizations, a law was passed
in eighteen sixty seven that authorized these funds four schools
across France. Those funds were meant to cover a variety
(22:04):
of things, including school lunches. A decade later, Paris started
opening school canteens for the children of those on the
poor board list. These were largely funded by the public.
The program soon spread across Paris and government contributions increased,
(22:25):
eventually covering the whole thing, and any child could participate.
Children who could pay paid for the food, not the labor,
but the food, and those who couldn't didn't pay, and
it was all kept anonymous through a sort of voucher system. Yes,
Lauren and I were discussing this beforehand, but it's very complicated,
(22:45):
these kind of charts of like who can pay and
who can't pay?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah to this day, also right, yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Meanwhile, over in England, thanks to the efforts of hundreds
of charity organizations, Parliament passed the Education or Provision of
Meals Act in nineteen oh five. This was in part
due to concerns over the physical fitness of the population,
especially when it came to soldiers. A commission was appointed
(23:17):
to look into this issue and determined that the lack
of nutrition in children was the most pressing problem, and
they recommended putting in place an inexpensive school lunch program
to combat the whole thing. A couple of other committees
found the same issue was the problem, which led to
this nineteen oh five law. It was amended in nineteen
(23:40):
fourteen to provide lunches during vacation times as well. Free
or very cheap milk got added into the mix in
nineteen thirty four. Throughout the early nineteen hundreds, a lot
of other European countries followed suit. For example, Holland enacted
a national legislation around providing school lunches in nineteen hundred.
(24:02):
Around the same time, a Swiss investigation found that teachers
reported students did better scholastically and were more likely to
attend school if lunch was provided, which led to government
funds going to supply children in need with clothes and lunch.
Further research led to recommendations about the nutrition recommendations of
(24:23):
the food provided. Norway started offering breakfast on top of
lunch and the results showed a lot of promise. So
people were looking into this. They were really looking into
the nutrition and the impact it had on education and
physical well being. Yeah, and this brings us to the US.
(24:45):
The US followed a somewhat similar path after most states
introduced compulsory education by the end of the eighteen hundreds.
It started with the smattering of localized organizations taking the
helm home. One of the first was an eighteen fifty
three effort to serve lunches to children attending a vocational
(25:06):
school that was undertaken by the Children's Aid Society of
New York, but that never really expanded beyond that. In
these early days, there were generally four main way students,
eight lunch homeschoolers, eight at home yep boarding school students,
eightth school Students in cities went home for lunch, and
(25:30):
students in rural areas either went home or ate a
lunch brought from home. Some of us did start to
shift in their early nineteen hundreds as more and more
women were able to obtain some kind of employment and
they couldn't prepare lunch for their children, so they instead
gave them a small allowance to buy from a food
(25:51):
cart or store. I found this really interesting because in
my school you were not allowed to leave for lunch.
That was like a big sin.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You could say, yeah, yeah, it really depends based on
where you're located and what everyone's situation is like.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yes, yes, but that was what it was like at
the time. A couple of cities were experimenting with school
lunch programs soon after, including Philadelphia and Boston. A lot
of these programs had a lot of back and forth
about who should provide and manage the lunches, usually landing
on the school board itself, and just to note, a
(26:29):
lot of women's organizations were spearheading the push.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
For all of this share.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
There was also much discussion around nutrition. More and more
cities launched their own programs, often collecting data as they
did so these programs could look a lot of different ways.
Some offered breakfast, some a la carte. People were trying
all kinds of things, not to mention the different types
(26:59):
of food. As I said, if we had time, that's
what I would do right now. And it was really
interesting too because some of the schools had calorie requirements,
so they'd list the calories and the foods, and the
kids had to make sure to do the math and
meet them. So it'd be like, you can get one
item here and one item here, but you have.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
To meet Yes, yeah, an apple, is this? A sandwich
is worth this? Make sure that you add enough other
calories to make up your totalchloric requirement. This was also
a time when a lot of research was being done
into nutritional science and so yeah, so the concept of
just pure calories was like new and exciting.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
It was. I also read a funny complaint from a
teacher from the time that said, they always choose the
dessert because it's got the most calories, and you.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Just feel like that was and it's dessert.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, so it's kind of backfiring in that way.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Her slightly flawed mathematics there, but sure, yes, or science there. Yeah,
the math holds up.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
It makes so much sense though when she said that,
I was nodding my head. Of course they went for
the dessert.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Meanwhile, rural areas struggled establishing such programs due to lack
of space for a kitchen and or dining area, and
the distances the students traveled to arrive at the school,
so if they were bringing food from home, it could
freeze in certain environments. There was a lot of there's
a lot of consideration about how do we heat food
(28:39):
in this school?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
One of the things that brought the issue of children
and hunger to the forefront of the American public was
the nineteen oh four book Poverty by Robert Hunter, in
which he wrote very passionately about the importance of making
sure a child has the proper nutrition to grow, and
how vital it was to learning. He argued that it
(29:03):
made no sense to have a while requiring children to
go to school if they weren't going to learn anything
because they were hungry. It makes yes, perfect, perfect sense. Yep,
perfect sense. So we've got a hodgepodge of programs funded
in part by local governments and philanthropic organizations, and we've
(29:26):
got growing concern over child malnutrition in the US, something
that only increased during the Great Depression in the nineteen thirties.
And this is when we start seeing state legislation and
federal aid enter the picture. But this too was kind
of sporadic and not at all standardized, not at all standards.
(29:49):
Another result of the Great Depression an ever growing surplus
of products grown on American farms, coinciding with an increase
of children who couldn't afford school. In nineteen thirty six,
the US government enacted legislation promoting the consumption of the
surplus products within the country by funneling some of these
(30:09):
products out of the typical trade in sales spaces and
turned the USDA purchased some of these goods and allocated
them to things like school lunches. So essentially they were
buying up some of the surplus, helping to even out
the price for the farmers and providing.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
For exciting fo Yeah yep.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
The Works Progress Administration or WPA, got involved in school
lunches in nineteen thirty five, employing largely women to cook,
assemble meals, make menus, come up with guidelines and sanitary
practices for school lunches all over the country. Since the
cost of that wasn't coming out of the budget of
the school, the price of the lunch remained low, and
(30:51):
the number of schools offering lunches grew across the country.
They were in all states, Washington, d C. And Puerto
Rico by nineteen forty one. One. Then we get World
War two. World War two pretty much shut down the
WPA and siphoned up all of the surplus from the farms.
(31:13):
This majorly impacted the number of schools offering lunches and
the quality of the lunches that were served. There were
some efforts to fix the situation, but it was a
year to year question of funding, which, as we know,
not ideal.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, nope, not ideal.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So In nineteen forty six, the National School Lunch Act
was passed, permanently allocating funding and not relying solely on
farming surpluses. There is a lot of complicated legalies around it,
but essentially it required that lunches be free or at
(31:54):
reduced cost, that it was nonprofit, and that surpluses be
utilized for these school lunches when't possible. There was a
bunch of other things, but main takeaways. Yeah yeah, just
like what happened in Europe. While there was an emphasis
on education, there was also an emphasis on how proper
(32:17):
nutrition would have children ready for war and more able
to resist communism.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah yeah, Like it was explicitly stated in the act
that this was and I quote a measure of national security.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yep. And speaking of communism. When trying to pass this act,
some politicians argued it was the dreaded socialism or communism.
Some made arguments about segregation too, since it was meant
to be non discriminatory. Anyone can get it. By the way,
(32:53):
nineteen forty six is also around the time we get
the molded cafeteria trade, which a lot of us associate.
We school just sure, National School Lunch Week was established
in nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yep, this is an event that still happens every year.
It's in the second full school week of October every year,
and it features it's trying just trying to get people
excited and participating in the school lunch program. Features like
special menus and events and activities. There's a theme every year.
(33:28):
For twenty twenty six, it's Cafeteria Circus.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I'm so curious.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I think I think the concept is that is that,
like a ring master, a school is coordinating many different
acts in order to try to bring the fun experience
of a school lunch together. Okay, creative, sure, fun.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Listeners write in, I don't remember this at all. Might
have just been off my radar. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Oh, I feel like this is pinging like a very
distant bell, maybe from either middle school or hype. Maybe
middle school. Like in the cafeteria, like there would be
like a poster competition every year to like follow the
theme in some way. Maybe that was a different goofy
school participation thing. I'm not sure. Wow, Wow, that just
(34:35):
dredged up really really old memories.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's great. People do have a lot of memories about
school lunches, even if you didn't really partake.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I find sure no cafeteria culture alone is woof deah.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, and just sitting in that lunch room. Yeah, as
a kid, it's a lot of drama and politics. Oh yeah,
where you sit? Oh yeah, I was eating what? Yeah? Well, Still,
there was continued conversation about nutrition. There were pilot breakfast programs,
(35:13):
there were milk programs. There was some inconsistency about what
should and shouldn't be provided. Some schools didn't have the
facilities to make lunches on site. These inconsistencies largely impacted
those who could not afford to pay for their lunches
or bring their own. It didn't help that the funding
was inadequate. Pushes continued to look more into nutrition and
(35:37):
the importance it had on learning, but on top of
that concerns that school lunches didn't meet nutritional standards and
were contributing to obesity. There were arguments about whether or
not private companies should be involved at all. Vending machines
huge topic of conversation. Fast food companies got in the
(35:57):
mix and seventies which, by the way, I did not
know that this was a thing. I'm so shocked that
you had a pizza hut. Yeah, that's that was not
happening at my school.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
It might have been like specific days or something like.
I had very little pocket money as a kid, so
I didn't like, I never bought anything from any of
these sources, so I don't have extremely specific memories about it.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
But yeah, yeah, And there was also conversation about how
these meals were involved in americanizing the diet of immigrants,
since the offerings were pretty much traditional American foods. From
what I read, cafeteria pizza entered the school lunch seen
(36:40):
in the seventies, which I know a lot of people
have memories of.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
This is a very specific format of pizza, like like
there are recipes that the USDA puts together and distributes
that have been like approved as part of the meal pattern,
you know, and this specific type of pizza is a
very nostalgic thing for a lot of humans. I feel
(37:07):
like we should do a whole at least many episode
about that one.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
We should. I found so many articles people being like
the square pizza, you remember it well. The nineteen eighties
saw a lot of controversy and classifications of types of
foods when it came to school lunches, ketchup and pickle
relish as vegetables for instance.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
It was largely a cost cutting move on the government's part,
and the people were not happy. It was kind of
a whole mess, and then President Reagan canceled the whole thing,
seemingly throwing the person who actually wanted to cancel it
under the bus. Classic Reagan, classic Ragon. Yeah, he was
(37:59):
like sky, Yes, that is another thing that could be
a whole mini episode for sure. This was mirrored in
the UK when during the eighties Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
and her Conservative Party were accused of milk snatching. They
allowed for private contractors to enter the market of school lunches,
(38:24):
and they lowered the cost by decreasing nutritional standards. A
lot of fried foods became the norm.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
So.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Very similar to what was going on in US.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, fried or at the very least like baked, but
probably not that healthy anyway.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah. Yes. Meanwhile, I read in the nineteen nineties more
options were being offered depending on where in the United
States you were students were located, including made to order
sandwiches and deli bars. President Obama passed the Healthy Hunger
(39:06):
Free Kids Act in twenty ten, which was a passion
of First Lady Michelle Obamas for more kids to have
access to healthier school lunches while limiting vending machine sales.
This got a lot of backlash from conservatives, but really
it is in line with the long history of thoughts
around nutrition and school lunches.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah yeah, and especially in backlash to kind of everything
that was going on in the eighties and nineties that
was not great for nutrition.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Exactly. And once again, the UK had a similar thing
happen in two thousand and five after a four part
series called Jamie's School Dinners aired on Channel four. The
series examined the low nutritional value of these meals and
the fallout of them on health than education for the children.
(40:02):
The Turkey Twizzler in particular, came under fire. Turkey Twizzler,
The turkey Twizzler, Lauren, This is a sort of curly
strip of fried turkey. It looks like a curly fry,
but the rings are thicker.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Okay, sure, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
After this aired, there was a push to offer healthier
options for students. In response, some schools banned junk foods,
including the turkey Twizzler. Lrip and this also continues. I
believe there was a legislation in twenty fifteen to keep improving, yeah,
(40:45):
the nutrition of school lunches in the UK. During the pandemic,
many school meal programs began offering pickup school lunch off rings.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, yeah, which is a great yeah, and and right,
this is all absolutely out andgoing Updates continue to be
made to both the nutrition and the money ends of
the National School Lunch Program here in the United States,
And I would imagine everywhere everywhere that school lunches are
a thing, you know, like like as we as we
(41:22):
rethink or or learn more about what nutrition means, and
as we kind of reckon with what kind of resources
are available two kids, and how to make sure that
we give everybody, you know, an opportunity to not be
hungry in school man. You know, uh, just yeah, just
(41:42):
just a lot of work is still being.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Done, yes, yeah, And we really would love to hear
from you listeners, not only about what it's like in
different countries, just the things that were offered.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
The memories, yeah yeah, what dishes you remember, yeah yeah,
the entire culture of school cafeterias.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Oh my goodness, did you have a red block? Was
it a space for protesters.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, yeah, no, we're so curious about all of this,
and we'll have to do a few follow up episodes,
I think. But but yeah, I think that is what
we have to say about school lunches for now.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yes, I think so.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we're going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Here, we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back on the snuner. I wanted to do like
an Arthur theme, but I couldn't. There's so many things
I can't communicate.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Uh, to be fair, I was entirely too old for
Arthur by the time it occurred. So you would have
you would have missed me that that Yeah, I mean,
I'm aware that that it's a thing, but like, you know, what.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
A wonderful kind of day, Lauren, that show, like you know,
the things that are in your brain and you just
can't get rid of that show that's there.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
From what I understand, it's a good one to have
back there.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, yes, yes, okay, Carla wrote, I've been listening to
Savor for a few years. Now. I love the way
the two of you interact with each other and provide
an entertaining, end formative look at so many different foods
and food related experiences. You've sent me on quite a
few journeys in my own kitchen exploring a new fruit, vegetable, cheese,
(44:09):
or condiment. But this is the first time I've written
I just listened to your episode on Jola Frice. While
Savor is a frequent inspiration for me to try new foods,
there are others as well. I was reading books by
Nigerian American authors and the TV series Bob Hart's ab
Shola that nudged me to try making jolafrice at home
(44:31):
a couple of years ago. When I explore recipes that
aren't part of my personal heritage, I try to avoid
Food Network, celebrity chefs and other sites where there may
be more innovation and less authenticity. Instead, I look for
sites with an authentic connection to the recipe, and looking
for a recipe for Jola frice, I discovered Chef Lola's Kitchen.
(44:51):
Chef Lola ausen Kulu is a Nigerian food blogger whose
recipe for joelaf I've made and enjoyed several times now.
Even though it takes a little work, it's not too
difficult if you read the recipe all the way through
first and watch Chef Lola's video. Her jola rice is
a warm, comforting, filling dish. If anyone is looking for
(45:12):
an authentic Nigerian jola recipe to try at home, I
highly recommend Chef Loola's Well. First of all, so glad
that you've been listening for years. Yeah it's your first
time writing. Yeah, welcome hello, Yes, welcome in Hello. I
think this is great advice to seek out, not like
(45:34):
food Network, which can be a great resource, sure, sure,
but to look forward, you know, off the beaten path
where it might be you'll find something that isn't the
Disney version maybe yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
And someone who seems to be speaking from personal experience
about something is always is always a great resource.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yes, I believe the recipe I use for when I
make Oxdale stew I really went out of my way
to be like, I want somebody from this place that
makes it a lot and where it's a traditional dish
and it's I love it. It's one of my favorite I've.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Never made oxtaiale stew Okay, all right, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
I feel like your homework list is just getting longer
and longer.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Oh, yes, welcomed. Yes, it doesn't help that I'm a
food podcaster.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
It's true, that's true.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I have been avoiding oxtail just because, like I, every
time I see them, I'm like, oh, that's a little expensive.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
They're so expensive. Yeah, I feel like when I was
making it, they were not.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Oh okayh yeah. Yeah. So that that's the kind of
thing that makes me go, oh, maybe I'll just maybe
I'll just do a.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Nice rego again.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
That's fine, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, yes, but thank you for the tip. Yes, I
haven't had allow for us since we did that episode,
so me neither.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Oh and this looks yeah, and I'll definitely check out
chefalo Li's kitchen. That sounds man good good. Internet chefs
are so nice mm hmmm mmming. So lovely about watching
someone else cook.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yes, there's a little sadness at the end when you're
not eating it, but until then, it's very lovely.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
We need that Wonka vision. Yeah, yeah, Sheldon wrote, Sometimes
I get into slumps and can't think of something to
make for supper. It was like that this morning, and
I was racking my brain trying to think of something
to make. I wake up early and listen to podcasts
while my wife sleeps, and your non episode came on. Yes,
I haven't made none in a while. Fresh baked non
(47:52):
with some curry will make a great supper, so thanks
again for kicking my brain. When I make them, I
add a touch of whole wheat flour, and I use
buttermil consider of yogurt because I always have some of
that around, and buttermilk contains bacteria poop, just like yogurt.
I have a gas powered pizza oven on my deck
in the back, and it gets up to nine hundred
degrees fahrenheit. It's fantastic for cooking non and pita and
(48:15):
bagels and pizza two. I make a small batch of dough,
just enough of my wife and I I roll them
out in the kitchen. Then when the supper is ready,
I go out back and cook them. I do one
at a time. I toss it in and within ten
seconds it puffs right up and is finished in thirty
to forty five seconds. I wonder if you should do
a show on those ovens, which have become quite popular
(48:36):
over the past five years or so. They're a game
changer for home pizza making, and they're useful for many
other things. Also Pet tax, my son holding Teat Poulet,
Teat Polet being a cat previously featured in a pet
tax in this In this photograph, Teat pole At is
(48:59):
where a little blue, spiky hood, and he looks extremely
disappointed in all of the humans involved. He's he is
a very handsome tabby cat. I think I've got the
(49:20):
right gender. It's a cat. Cats don't really have gender norms.
The little blue bonnet is very cute, anti Pole does
not appreciate it in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
No, the gaze is murderous. Oh.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I love an angry cat wearing a little bonnet. It's
one of the deepest joys in my life.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
The cat is thinking about revenge.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Oh heck.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
In this photo it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Yeah, I mean, I'm grateful for the photo, but I'm
also uh, I'm also my dear friend. This cat knows
where you sleep. It's clearly plotting. Plotting. Yeah, I love
how people are like cats are expressionless, and I'm like,
(50:16):
have you met one? They might not have many expressions, but.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
The ones they have communicate clearly you done messed up
for it, You'll be paying for it.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Goodness. Well.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Also also a pizza pizza ovens. Yes, little little gas
powered pizza ovens. Yeah, so cool. I've never used one.
One of my friends got one and then like kind
of immediately broke it. Yeah. Yeah, it was a well
meaning third party friend tried to cool it down by
(51:00):
splashing water on it when it was way too hot
to do that, and it just cracked. It just went
war wound. Oh no, yeah, but uh so that's my experience.
But uh but yeah, No, they are fantastic.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
I'm very jealous of anybody who has when I'm sad
for someone who loses one in such a way. But no,
I'm very jealous. And I do love that you listen
to the podcast and we're like, non.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
Is what there?
Speaker 1 (51:31):
We go do?
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Perfect?
Speaker 1 (51:33):
And I you also sending pictures of you making the non,
and I really appreciate that there's snow yeah in the background.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I didn't even scroll down here. I am mm.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Hmmm, just making non with a snowy background. Thirty to
forty five seconds. There you go. Delightful, delightful, gred Oh
my gosh, jealousy once again.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah, this Wonka vision thing that we were talking about
a second ago, here it is. Yeah, we need it.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
We need it, we do, we do, but we do
appreciate feeling the jealousy. Don't yet stop you no, So
thank you to both of these listeners for writing it.
If you would like to write to us, you can.
Our email is Hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
Instagram and blue Sky at savor pod, and we do
hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(52:49):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Clifford Show
The Clifford Show with Clifford Taylor IV blends humor, culture, and behind-the-scenes sports talk with real conversations featuring athletes, creators, and personalities—spotlighting the grind, the growth, and the opportunities shaping the next generation of sports and culture.