May 5, 2026 • 36 mins
This tropical fruit with a thin, leathery skin doesn’t travel well, so it’s inspired all kinds of innovations to get it from tree to plate over the centuries. Anney and Lauren take a fresh look at the history and science behind lychees.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Leichi.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, was there any particular reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Lauren h It had been on the list for a while.
I wanted to do some kind of produce today, and
it's been long enough since we've done our Rambaitan episode
that I was like, Yeahlichiese, okay, yeah, all right, And
(00:43):
as I was googling it, I was like, oh, yeah,
the Lichi martini.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
What's up with that?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
We will talk about what's up with that very briefly.
I do love Lichi. A lot of my experience is
with the martini.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I have to say, Yeah, I'm trying to think. I've
been trying to think as I've been reading about them.
I'm like, have have I, outside of a martini situation
experienced that? And the thing is like, I think that
I've avoided them because especially the early Lichi martinis were
(01:21):
very sweet, very very very sweet, like always with canned
fruit and in a style of martini that's mostly sugar,
and that kind of turned me off of them.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
But when we were in.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Las Vegas a couple of years ago, that weird year
where we went three times for work. Still don't know
what that's about, but had a lovely time. And at
the Wynn Resort, one of us ordered Alichi martini or
some of you know, a cocktail involving light chi and it.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Was so delightful.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It was just like crisp and refreshing and gorgeous. And
I was like, oh, no, have I been incorrect, Have
I been cheating myself out of deliciousness?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yes, I remember, I remember some l Chi martinis in
Las Vegas and they were very nice. They were very
very nice. I think I actually have had light chiese.
(02:38):
I think in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh interesting, Okay, sure, I.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Was somewhere tropical, I mean yeah, and somebody brought like
a tupperware of just light chi.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Oh my goodness, and they were.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So refreshing and it was so nice. But I think
that's my only experience with them outside of a cocktail
or drink format.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, this was one of those where I found myself
really craving something that I don't think I've ever really had,
and I absolutely need to get a hold of some
fresh ones. During this upcoming fresh light cheese season.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yes, you must so, I guess this does bring us
to our question, sure light cheese, what are they?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
L cheese are a type of small round fruit that
have this leathery, blushing pink to red skin encasing a
little bulb of like juicy, soft, crunchy, translucent white flesh
that's sweet and a little tart with this lovely like
floral citrus melon rose sort of flavor to it. The
(03:54):
skin is inedible. You can peel it off easily and
eat the fruit fresh, as long as you take care
to crunch down on the inedible seed inside. They are
most often eaten like that out of hand as a
fruit delicacy, or maybe pitted and served fresh top baked
or chilled desserts, sometimes cooked down into a jam or
(04:15):
syrup and used in drinks or dishes like that. Applications
are usually sweet, occasionally savory, maybe like in a salad
or a sauce for seafood. They're also commonly frozen cannen
syrup or dried, and thus can be shipped further. They
are a little bit delicate and don't last very long
after harvest, and yeah thus used as a flavoring agent
(04:36):
for all kinds of drinks and dishes year round.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Light cheese.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Light cheese are like someone packed a blooming garden into
this small, refreshing dragon egg.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, they're just so bright, the texture is amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Wre I'm really struggling.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I'm really struggling to remember if I've ever had a
fresh one.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Okay, so nice, soon soon in the meanwhile.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Botanical name a lie Chi chinensis, the lied cheese is
part of the sapandosier or a soapberry family, which means
it's a cousin to other fruit trees like the longan
aki and rumbatan, plus two maple trees and buckeyes. The
trees are tropical evergreens that can reach like one hundred
feet in height that's thirty meters or so, but they
(05:37):
grow slowly and outside of their native range they tend
to be only about a third of that. The tree
has long, oval leaves and glossy lime green, and it
will bloom with clusters of tiny white to yellow flowers
in the spring, which, if pollinated, will develop into a
cluster of like up to twenty fruits a few months later.
Each branch of flowers can have like three thousand flowers,
(06:00):
but fewer than two percent will develop into fruit. Each
fruit grows a lumpy, bumpy, kind of scaily looking a thin,
leathery skin on the outside that will go from green
to gold to pink or red as they ripe. In
that skin protects the juicy, translucent white flesh as it develops.
It's sort of grape like in texture. From what I've read,
(06:21):
the fruits are drupes, meaning that they each contain a
single seed encased in that flesh, and these are rounded
or flattened ovals with a cream color underneath a glossy
brown coat. The whole fruit tends to be about an
inch in diameter, that's around three centimeters, and they're really pretty.
If you've not seen them, look up pictures. They're so
nice looking. They do have to be harvested at their
(06:43):
peak of ripeness because they don't continue to ripen afterwards.
I understand that l cheese are difficult to grow from
seed and for kind of difficult to grow in general
and for commercial production, are more likely to be grown
by propagating new root systems on a living tree and
then planting that cutting. Yeah, I've read a lot about
(07:04):
how they're kind of finicky in general, especially outside of
their native range. There are, however, a lot of varietals
that have been developed. The two basic subgroups are early
blooming trees, which flour in the late winter and bear
fruit in the spring to summer, and late blooming trees,
which flour in the spring and bear fruit summer to fall.
Ish growing seasons can really vary. Interestingly, those two subgroups
(07:27):
seem to have been domesticated from wild light cheese independently.
People were just into them. Yeah, they can hybridize with
each other though, and often are encouraged to do so.
But yeah, yeah, you can eat them anyway that you
enjoy eating fresh or canned fruit or juice or dried
fruit which are sometimes called light chi nuts.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
It's not a nut.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
It's not not like burn so many times.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's true, right goodness between that and berry heck.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
But you know, you can like like put light.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Chi haves in a fruit salad or a leafy green
salad on a kebab with some shrimp tossed into a
sweet and sour stir fry, simmered into gingery chicken soup,
chopped into a salsa for topping something like salmon. You
can do light chi diced into cake batter and then
baked up and layered with rosewater, butter cream, light che
(08:32):
steeped in dairy to make ice cream or pudding or panacotta.
Light chi fruit or juice blended into smoothies or cocktails
with other light tropical flavors. Maybe just a simple light
chi lemonade, light chi gelatins for layering into cold desserts
or dicing into bubble tea, or just eating on its own.
I did not make a single one of these up myself.
(08:53):
Every single one of these was something I read about
on the internet today. The gingery chicken soup with light
chi haves in it is something that I cannot get
out of my head. I'm like, oh no, oh no,
that sounds incredible.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I was about to say, how have you even gone
on all of these things? Tormenting you, telling you the
struggle is real some days? Yes, Well what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Ah, by themselves, light cheese are pretty okay, you know,
good spread of micronutrients. They're a little sugary without having
that much fiber, So you know, like, don't eat only
li cheese.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, I think that's a good goal for any.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Just about any food.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, I would say, mm hmm, well we do have
some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
We do, okay, if you're talking about how many varietals
is a lot of varietals. One of the scientific papers
I read on li chie biology from twenty seventeen listed
one hundred and two known varietals. China produces the most
by far, like nearly one point five million metric tons
(10:13):
a year. India comes in next with around five hundred
thousand metric tons, so like a third of that. There's
also significant commercial production in Taiwan, Thailand, and Vietnam, for
a total global production of around two point seven million
tons a year, which is worth about seven point five
billion dollars. Yeah, fresh li chi can be a lucrative business.
(10:40):
The fruit can go for like five to ten bucks
a pound in foreign markets. That's like ten to twenty
bucks of kilo ish. Over half of all eye cheese
produced are consumed fresh. However, the most expensive li chi
I could find from albeit a very brief service, which
(11:01):
was sold at auction in two thousand and two for
around sixty seven thousand dollars US.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
What yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
The fruit apparently came from a four hundred year old
tree that fed members of the Imperial Court of China
during the seventeen hundreds. Funds raised by the auction went
to like education and also laichi tree upkeeps.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
So I thought that was.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Nice, that's a good gesture, and I couldn't I couldn't
track more details down exactly due to like language barrier,
But I believe that this was a liichi from Zeongcheng District,
which is part of the city slash prefecture of Guangzhou,
which is in fact famous for its Lii chiese. They
(11:51):
grow over seventy varietals in Zongcheng. There's a Guinness record
for the most Lai chiese hand picked buy a team
in a single hour. Of course, it was achieved in
Haiko in Hainan, China in twenty nineteen. During this feat,
(12:13):
a twelve person team picked one thousand, six hundred and
seventy one pounds in an hour. That's seven hundred and
fifty eight kilos.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Wow. Right.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
The literal fruit of their labor was mostly sent to
city public service staff, which again.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think is so nice. Right, that's nice.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Hi Nan is a volcanic island province southwest of Hong
Kong with a lot of leichi farming as well. As
of twenty twenty five, they were producing some eighty eight
thousand metric tons a year, which brought in some two
hundred and twenty three million dollars in sales.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yes, well they do have quite at of being very
sought after, very revered.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh yes, yes, and we are going to get into
that history. But first we're going to get into a
quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And we're back.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay. So, laichis originated in Southeast Asia. Records indicate that
they were being cultivated in China at least two thousand
years ago.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, possibly as long as like thirty five hundred years ago,
but no one knows.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
No one knows. Fun Times experts theory set the seeds
spread along the Xijiang River into areas like what is
now Vietnam. The research indicates that this is also a
situation where there were two separate domesticate events, one in
u Non Province and one in Hinn Provence. According to
(14:06):
this theory, this domestication event could have happened eighteen thousand
years ago.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Again, nobody knows.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Nobody knows. At the time, these provinces would have taken
a long long time to travel between. Uh so a
human person might actually die before the trip was completed.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
That's how okay, that's how far? Yeah cool?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yes, yes, so these two Laichies developed independently from there.
Cross breeding was largely accidental. However, the researchers reporting on
this are clear this timeline is still an estimate and
they're still looking into it. So yeah, who knows looking
(14:52):
into it?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
They are, Yeah, this is all like genetic research. It's
super cool, it is it is.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Laichi's were really popular in China during the Tang dynasty
from six hundred eighteen to nine hundred and six CE.
They were rare in northern China. Again, took forever to travel.
China's very large country, but that northern China is where
the emperor resided, and he had Laichi's delivered. Specifically, there's
(15:23):
a pretty repeated tale that he was trying to impress
a woman who loved Laichi's, so he set up a
delivery route to get them to her. Because Liichi's didn't
last long, you know, they were delicate. He it required
multiple people and horses, going as quickly as they could. Yes,
(15:45):
and some riders would even transport the laichies still on
the branch to ensure that they were as fresh as possible.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Like, not like a little twig, like a whole heck
in branch like. I read a legend that her years
might have dug up a whole tree to transport to
ensure freshness. I don't know, you know mysteries history, but
I think that these light cheese that we're talking about
were from Guangzhou, possibly related to that one really expensive
(16:18):
Liichi from earlier.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Hard to say, hard to say, but I do want
to know. The emperor established over a thousand delivery spots
throughout China, not necessarily Forlichi, but as the legend goes,
this did draw some ire for using these delivery spots
(16:43):
for Laichi deliveries. True or not, this led Tolichi's developing
a mystique of being a passionate, romantic fruit. I would
love if listeners wrote it in more about that.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh yeah, yeah, I don't have any cultural attachment like
connotation to this, so please yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yes. In ten ninety five CE, Sai Hizzong wrote what
is believed to be the first dedicated text on thelaichi,
although there is another possible contender from ten fifty six EE.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And around that time there were apparently thirty two different
varietals already that we're being written about. One of the
two of these might be the first full treatise on
fruit that we have record of.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Oh wow, but.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I didn't super double check into that.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
That's cool, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Jumping ahead, the fifteen eighty five work The History of
the Great and Mighty Kingdom of China and the Situation
Thereof by Spanish Bishop Juan Gonzales de Mendoza contains the
first known European mention of the fruit. Laichi's got their
scientific name and description in the Western world in seventeen
(18:10):
eighty two thanks to French naturalist Pierre Sonora in his
work Voyage to the East Indies and China. By seventeen
seventy five, liichis were present in the Caribbean, and around
the same time in India and Thailand. Folks were growing
(18:31):
them in greenhouses in England and France by the beginning
of the eighteen hundreds. In the eighteen seventies, liichi's were
planted in Hawaii and Australia, and were in Florida and
California by the eighteen eighties and nineties.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
They spread partially thanks to Chinese immigrants moving around at
the time who carried seeds or sprouted stems with them.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yes. Professor George Groff published his work The Leichi and
the Lugan in nineteen twenty one. In it, he describes
a push in China to develop the superior Lichi. He
recognized fifteen separate cultivars. Beginning in the nineteen forties, Florida
(19:17):
laichi producers pushed to popularize their products, developing a new
method of propagation built off of Chinese methods that allowed
for them to have viable Leichi nurseries. However, Florida production
has been plagued by things like freezing temperatures and hurricanes.
Of note, though laichi trees seem to weather hurricanes better
(19:41):
than other crops, at least to one government article I
read Okay, yeah, yep. In nineteen sixty, Madagascar dipped their
toe in freezing licheese to ship to France. Research into thelichi,
(20:01):
including after it was harvested, really got underway in the
nineteen forties, though it wouldn't be until the nineteen eighties
that scientific papers started publishing on it. There was a
lot of interest around water supply and temperature's impact on
leichi growth.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, specifically on the fruiting of the plant, because again
it's like sort of finicky and so so sometimes you
might want to withhold water or like shock it a
little with temperature in order to get it to like
stress it into fruiting. I've read a lot of biological
information about like cheese over the stressful as a human
(20:42):
it's okay, I mean, the plant doesn't. I mean it's
okay for the you know, right.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Right, I know, but it's it's not shock it with temperature.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And for for a little bit of context on that
timeline here, because you know, like like research which getting
underway in the forties and not really anything coming out
in scientific publications until the eighties.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
That's so long. That's a long period.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
But so for context, li cheese really were due to
their delicateness a local product or wherever they grew, I mean,
unless an emperor really had a hankering.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
For all of history.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And post World War two China was like generally having
a hard time for about forty years. I'm oversimplifying here,
but like for our purposes today, a lot of knowledge
about li cheese remained local during that time. In the
nineteen eighties, as the country was in reform and opening
(21:46):
up to international communication and commerce, there was a boom
in a lot of industries, including agriculture, including Lai cheese.
You know, people wanted this fruit. Growing them was profitable,
and simultaneously to that, improved technologies around transportation and cold
(22:07):
supply chain infrastructure were being developed. So so like, okay,
like to put it in perspective, during those first forty
ish years of the People's Republic of China after World
War Two, only some forty thousand metric tons of liichiese
were grown every year. That is two point seven percent
of what's being produced in China today. So from the
(22:33):
eighties through today, there has been this huge increase in
demand dovetailing with all of this research and tech that's
made meeting and even growing that demand possible, and growers
and researchers in other places have definitely gotten in on
this too.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
But yeah, yeah, well this brings us too the Leichi martini, yes, yes,
which allegedly nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh oh, that's a very precise date. Okay, that's what
I kept seeing. Nineteen ninety three, the Laichi martini was
first offered at the newly opened East Village, New York
venue Decibel. This was when the craft cocktail movement was
really getting underway in the US and everybody wanted to
stand out. I love every time we do one of
(23:26):
these things about the cocktail movement in the US.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I'm like, we're coming out of the eighties. We're crete,
but as you said, very sweet cocktails. Nonetheless, this happened
to coincide with a growing US interest in Asian ingredients
and cuisines. The drink had of vodka bass flavored with
Leichi syrup, maybe with some canned light cheese in the mix.
(23:54):
The owner of Decibel claimed that his brother already served
the same drink at a restaurant outside of Tokyo, and
he was just imitating what he was doing over there.
At the time, Laichi wasn't well known in the United States,
but this was also when cable cooking shows were introducing
(24:15):
people to new things, so.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
They were let me get sure, whicheez.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Mm hmm. That being said, as with all cocktail origin stories,
there is a competing alternate version that actually the bartenders
at the decibel were the originators, so it wasn't this
person in Tokyo. The evidence is a bit lacking in
either case, and on top of that, a few other
places lay claim or at least have a decent argument
(24:47):
that their cocktail was the jumping off of the Laichi
martini at that point. PF. Chang's started serving a Laichi
martini in two thousand and four. Okay, ok, yes, but
it really the drink really peaked in the two thousands.
But in my experience, like sheet cocktails are making a
(25:09):
comeback in recent years. There has been a focus on
balancing the sweetness of the cocktail and using fresh ingredients.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, yeah, as right.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
The cocktail scene in general has evolved a bit, and
access to fresh light cheese has evolved. In two thousand
and eight, the Chinese government set up a national light
sheet and lungdon Research System, headed by a panel of
sixteen researchers to just like keep an eye on the
industry and you know, help out with everything from like
(25:42):
field experiments to farmer education.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yes, and as we've alluded to, research continues, especially into
the genome of the light cheese.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Oh, yeah, and into lots of varietals with different properties
like seedless, light cheese, and all of those cold chain
logistics to get fresh fruit to more markets.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yes, well, I hope you get to try some fresh ones, Lauren.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I I am due for a trip to one of
our many wonderful international markets around Atlanta, where I believe
I have seen them, and Yep, we're gonna, We're gonna
do it. I'm devoted it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, that would be a great Dungeons and dragons food,
as you said, like a drag.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh yeah, they do really look like dragon eggs sometimes.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Like so something to think about.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Listeners.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Please let us know if you have had any memories, recipes,
whatever it.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Is, Oh yeah, from you. Oh please absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
But I believe that is what we have to say
about the light she for now. We do already have
some listener mail for you, though, and we are going
to get into that as soon as we get back
from one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with this listen. Yeah, do you think the
description you had of grape is a very texture wise
accuracy description.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, that's what I That's what I read a lot
of So that's what I'm that's what I'm going with.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, yes, but it looks more medieval. Oh so we
actually have two emails about Parsley. Yeah, yes, So after
hearing your Parsley episode, I thought you might like to
(28:04):
see the eastern black swallowtails I accidentally helped raise last summer.
I was leaving town for about a week and brought
some of my herbs into the kitchen from the balcony
so they wouldn't die of thirst while I was gone.
And when I returned, my dell was almost completely gone,
but I had ten caterpillars on their way to becoming butterflies.
(28:28):
Some had already gone into their chrystalids. The door frame
was quite a popular location, some were still considering, and
one was still eating. Within a few days, they all
chose a spot and later emerged, and since they were
so close to the sliding door to the balcony, relatively
(28:49):
easy to release once they had dried off. So although
I didn't get any dill last year, I did get
some lovely butterflies.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
That is so delightful in a really unexpected way.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
It is, and there are pictures. These butterflies are beautiful.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh yeah, uh, Eastern black swallowtails are incredibly gorgeous swallow
tails in general. But yeah, it's they they've got the
they've got the black with like the the yellow patterning
and then like a little bit of like blue and
red right at the butt. And that's not that's not
the correct insect term, but you guys know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
And yeah, they're little.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Chris chrysalises, cris chrysalids, and oh they're so pretty.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Also, I've never heard of this happening. I love this.
I love that they came in and were like, this
is where we're gonna be.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
They were like, well, this is comfy and it has
a really great source of food for us. We can't
open this doors, we're gonna we're just gonna hang out here. Yeah,
that's fantastic. I've never heard of this.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I love it. I'm sad you lost your dill, yes,
but you've got some pretty lovely butterflies out of it.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah. Oh yes, I'd be a little mad about the dell.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Though, I would be right, all right.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
You can always get more dill.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, Dan wrote always love the history section of the show,
but wanted to pass along a follow up. How can
you do a whole episode and not mention a sado
with Jimmy Cherry. I'm not a huge Parsley fan overall,
but there is something special about a smoked steak with
a zesty, fresh Jimmy Cherry sauce. Pick of asado for
(30:48):
a drooling factor attached from a food hall in Monte Video, Uruguay. Furthermore,
something overlooked by many outside of South America is the
unique style of Argentinian Italian food. The pizza and pasta
is very unique and just as fun as American Italian. No,
I am not from there. I just love traveling the
world and eating food and found the food history of
(31:10):
that region very cool. Quick tangent tarragon. I know you
did an episode like a year or so ago. I
can't remember if you mentioned it, but Georgian food is
very heavy on tarragon, including tarragon wine, soda and liquore,
and too many amazing dishes to spell out here. A
pick of green natural they say tarragon wine while on
(31:33):
a wine tour of Cochetti, Georgia, which is also the
oldest wine producing area in the world. I can keep
going on tangents, but we'll stop there. Smiley face.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And so yes, that picture of the asato from the
food hall is drooling inducing. Indeed, so many gorgeous it's
a it's a large form factor grill station and just
so many gorgeous cuts of meat and sausages and different things,
(32:08):
and it's visibly smoking.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
It looks so good.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I'm mad.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I'm mad that I'm not eating any of that right now,
oh my goodness. And yes, and also this glass of
extremely green wine. It's sort of like like like a
deep grass green maybe something around like a or sort
of like a like a deep ninja turtle green if that.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Oh yeah, oh oh absolutely oz green. There you go. Yeah,
good looking out.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Thanks. I yeah, I've never seen a wine that shade.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
No, I've never heard. I did not encounter anything about
tarragon wine.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
See, I completely forgot we did that episode again, There
you go. Happened to us.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yes, And about the Jimmy Churry, Oh my goodness. I
really thought I wrote a note in about that, but
it's possible that I didn't name it specifically and I
just said like herb sauce or something in specific like that,
or maybe I was just thinking about it really hard
(33:24):
and it.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Didn't make it into the notes.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I feel like happened sometimes, Oh with that one, because
there were a lot of green sauces.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, yeah, that had.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
At least at first glance, the history of going into
those was going to be very difficult. So it was
sort of like, there's a green sauce from here, there's
a green sauce from here, and we're going to have
to devote more time.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
To looking into that specific thing, right, Yeah, but there
were Oh my goodness, I y'all given me cravings, y'all
giving me more cravings?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yes, yes, And I do love that you wrote in
about the kind of Argentinian.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah, Italian so cool.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yeah, because a lot of those dishes are so like
just like you know, like Left of Albuquerque from what
Italian American dishes are and super fun.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah. And I know I've mentioned it before, but a
restaurant in Atlanta that I love Desta. They're an Ethiopian
restaurant and they have an Italian section on their menu.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Oh cool, huh, and uh, of course I do.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I finally, yeah, because the history of Italy and Ethiopia. Yeah,
and I finally ordered some from that section because I
was like, you know, this, this sort of like I've
had this before, this is not what I'm going But
when I tried it, I was like, oh my gosh,
this is so good and it is different than a
Italian American food, so this is really interesting. I'm glad
(35:04):
you wrote in about it.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Yeah, yep, yep. Well we've got more Eden to do.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Let's uh alas alas.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Thank you to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
We're also on social media.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
You can find us on Blue Sky and Instagram at
savor pod, and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
You listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Leichi.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, was there any particular reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Lauren h It had been on the list for a while.
I wanted to do some kind of produce today, and
it's been long enough since we've done our Rambaitan episode
that I was like, Yeahlichiese, okay, yeah, all right, And
(00:43):
as I was googling it, I was like, oh, yeah,
the Lichi martini.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
What's up with that?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
We will talk about what's up with that very briefly.
I do love Lichi. A lot of my experience is
with the martini.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I have to say, Yeah, I'm trying to think. I've
been trying to think as I've been reading about them.
I'm like, have have I, outside of a martini situation
experienced that? And the thing is like, I think that
I've avoided them because especially the early Lichi martinis were
(01:21):
very sweet, very very very sweet, like always with canned
fruit and in a style of martini that's mostly sugar,
and that kind of turned me off of them.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
But when we were in.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Las Vegas a couple of years ago, that weird year
where we went three times for work. Still don't know
what that's about, but had a lovely time. And at
the Wynn Resort, one of us ordered Alichi martini or
some of you know, a cocktail involving light chi and it.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Was so delightful.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It was just like crisp and refreshing and gorgeous. And
I was like, oh, no, have I been incorrect, Have
I been cheating myself out of deliciousness?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yes, I remember, I remember some l Chi martinis in
Las Vegas and they were very nice. They were very
very nice. I think I actually have had light chiese.
(02:38):
I think in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh interesting, Okay, sure, I.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Was somewhere tropical, I mean yeah, and somebody brought like
a tupperware of just light chi.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Oh my goodness, and they were.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So refreshing and it was so nice. But I think
that's my only experience with them outside of a cocktail
or drink format.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, this was one of those where I found myself
really craving something that I don't think I've ever really had,
and I absolutely need to get a hold of some
fresh ones. During this upcoming fresh light cheese season.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yes, you must so, I guess this does bring us
to our question, sure light cheese, what are they?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
L cheese are a type of small round fruit that
have this leathery, blushing pink to red skin encasing a
little bulb of like juicy, soft, crunchy, translucent white flesh
that's sweet and a little tart with this lovely like
floral citrus melon rose sort of flavor to it. The
(03:54):
skin is inedible. You can peel it off easily and
eat the fruit fresh, as long as you take care
to crunch down on the inedible seed inside. They are
most often eaten like that out of hand as a
fruit delicacy, or maybe pitted and served fresh top baked
or chilled desserts, sometimes cooked down into a jam or
(04:15):
syrup and used in drinks or dishes like that. Applications
are usually sweet, occasionally savory, maybe like in a salad
or a sauce for seafood. They're also commonly frozen cannen
syrup or dried, and thus can be shipped further. They
are a little bit delicate and don't last very long
after harvest, and yeah thus used as a flavoring agent
(04:36):
for all kinds of drinks and dishes year round.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Light cheese.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Light cheese are like someone packed a blooming garden into
this small, refreshing dragon egg.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, they're just so bright, the texture is amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Wre I'm really struggling.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I'm really struggling to remember if I've ever had a
fresh one.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Okay, so nice, soon soon in the meanwhile.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Botanical name a lie Chi chinensis, the lied cheese is
part of the sapandosier or a soapberry family, which means
it's a cousin to other fruit trees like the longan
aki and rumbatan, plus two maple trees and buckeyes. The
trees are tropical evergreens that can reach like one hundred
feet in height that's thirty meters or so, but they
(05:37):
grow slowly and outside of their native range they tend
to be only about a third of that. The tree
has long, oval leaves and glossy lime green, and it
will bloom with clusters of tiny white to yellow flowers
in the spring, which, if pollinated, will develop into a
cluster of like up to twenty fruits a few months later.
Each branch of flowers can have like three thousand flowers,
(06:00):
but fewer than two percent will develop into fruit. Each
fruit grows a lumpy, bumpy, kind of scaily looking a thin,
leathery skin on the outside that will go from green
to gold to pink or red as they ripe. In
that skin protects the juicy, translucent white flesh as it develops.
It's sort of grape like in texture. From what I've read,
(06:21):
the fruits are drupes, meaning that they each contain a
single seed encased in that flesh, and these are rounded
or flattened ovals with a cream color underneath a glossy
brown coat. The whole fruit tends to be about an
inch in diameter, that's around three centimeters, and they're really pretty.
If you've not seen them, look up pictures. They're so
nice looking. They do have to be harvested at their
(06:43):
peak of ripeness because they don't continue to ripen afterwards.
I understand that l cheese are difficult to grow from
seed and for kind of difficult to grow in general
and for commercial production, are more likely to be grown
by propagating new root systems on a living tree and
then planting that cutting. Yeah, I've read a lot about
(07:04):
how they're kind of finicky in general, especially outside of
their native range. There are, however, a lot of varietals
that have been developed. The two basic subgroups are early
blooming trees, which flour in the late winter and bear
fruit in the spring to summer, and late blooming trees,
which flour in the spring and bear fruit summer to fall.
Ish growing seasons can really vary. Interestingly, those two subgroups
(07:27):
seem to have been domesticated from wild light cheese independently.
People were just into them. Yeah, they can hybridize with
each other though, and often are encouraged to do so.
But yeah, yeah, you can eat them anyway that you
enjoy eating fresh or canned fruit or juice or dried
fruit which are sometimes called light chi nuts.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
It's not a nut.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
It's not not like burn so many times.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's true, right goodness between that and berry heck.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
But you know, you can like like put light.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Chi haves in a fruit salad or a leafy green
salad on a kebab with some shrimp tossed into a
sweet and sour stir fry, simmered into gingery chicken soup,
chopped into a salsa for topping something like salmon. You
can do light chi diced into cake batter and then
baked up and layered with rosewater, butter cream, light che
(08:32):
steeped in dairy to make ice cream or pudding or panacotta.
Light chi fruit or juice blended into smoothies or cocktails
with other light tropical flavors. Maybe just a simple light
chi lemonade, light chi gelatins for layering into cold desserts
or dicing into bubble tea, or just eating on its own.
I did not make a single one of these up myself.
(08:53):
Every single one of these was something I read about
on the internet today. The gingery chicken soup with light
chi haves in it is something that I cannot get
out of my head. I'm like, oh no, oh no,
that sounds incredible.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I was about to say, how have you even gone
on all of these things? Tormenting you, telling you the
struggle is real some days? Yes, Well what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Ah, by themselves, light cheese are pretty okay, you know,
good spread of micronutrients. They're a little sugary without having
that much fiber, So you know, like, don't eat only
li cheese.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, I think that's a good goal for any.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Just about any food.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, I would say, mm hmm, well we do have
some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
We do, okay, if you're talking about how many varietals
is a lot of varietals. One of the scientific papers
I read on li chie biology from twenty seventeen listed
one hundred and two known varietals. China produces the most
by far, like nearly one point five million metric tons
(10:13):
a year. India comes in next with around five hundred
thousand metric tons, so like a third of that. There's
also significant commercial production in Taiwan, Thailand, and Vietnam, for
a total global production of around two point seven million
tons a year, which is worth about seven point five
billion dollars. Yeah, fresh li chi can be a lucrative business.
(10:40):
The fruit can go for like five to ten bucks
a pound in foreign markets. That's like ten to twenty
bucks of kilo ish. Over half of all eye cheese
produced are consumed fresh. However, the most expensive li chi
I could find from albeit a very brief service, which
(11:01):
was sold at auction in two thousand and two for
around sixty seven thousand dollars US.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
What yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
The fruit apparently came from a four hundred year old
tree that fed members of the Imperial Court of China
during the seventeen hundreds. Funds raised by the auction went
to like education and also laichi tree upkeeps.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
So I thought that was.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Nice, that's a good gesture, and I couldn't I couldn't
track more details down exactly due to like language barrier,
But I believe that this was a liichi from Zeongcheng District,
which is part of the city slash prefecture of Guangzhou,
which is in fact famous for its Lii chiese. They
(11:51):
grow over seventy varietals in Zongcheng. There's a Guinness record
for the most Lai chiese hand picked buy a team
in a single hour. Of course, it was achieved in
Haiko in Hainan, China in twenty nineteen. During this feat,
(12:13):
a twelve person team picked one thousand, six hundred and
seventy one pounds in an hour. That's seven hundred and
fifty eight kilos.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Wow. Right.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
The literal fruit of their labor was mostly sent to
city public service staff, which again.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think is so nice. Right, that's nice.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Hi Nan is a volcanic island province southwest of Hong
Kong with a lot of leichi farming as well. As
of twenty twenty five, they were producing some eighty eight
thousand metric tons a year, which brought in some two
hundred and twenty three million dollars in sales.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yes, well they do have quite at of being very
sought after, very revered.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh yes, yes, and we are going to get into
that history. But first we're going to get into a
quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And we're back.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay. So, laichis originated in Southeast Asia. Records indicate that
they were being cultivated in China at least two thousand
years ago.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, possibly as long as like thirty five hundred years ago,
but no one knows.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
No one knows. Fun Times experts theory set the seeds
spread along the Xijiang River into areas like what is
now Vietnam. The research indicates that this is also a
situation where there were two separate domesticate events, one in
u Non Province and one in Hinn Provence. According to
(14:06):
this theory, this domestication event could have happened eighteen thousand
years ago.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Again, nobody knows.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Nobody knows. At the time, these provinces would have taken
a long long time to travel between. Uh so a
human person might actually die before the trip was completed.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
That's how okay, that's how far? Yeah cool?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yes, yes, so these two Laichies developed independently from there.
Cross breeding was largely accidental. However, the researchers reporting on
this are clear this timeline is still an estimate and
they're still looking into it. So yeah, who knows looking
(14:52):
into it?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
They are, Yeah, this is all like genetic research. It's
super cool, it is it is.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Laichi's were really popular in China during the Tang dynasty
from six hundred eighteen to nine hundred and six CE.
They were rare in northern China. Again, took forever to travel.
China's very large country, but that northern China is where
the emperor resided, and he had Laichi's delivered. Specifically, there's
(15:23):
a pretty repeated tale that he was trying to impress
a woman who loved Laichi's, so he set up a
delivery route to get them to her. Because Liichi's didn't
last long, you know, they were delicate. He it required
multiple people and horses, going as quickly as they could. Yes,
(15:45):
and some riders would even transport the laichies still on
the branch to ensure that they were as fresh as possible.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Like, not like a little twig, like a whole heck
in branch like. I read a legend that her years
might have dug up a whole tree to transport to
ensure freshness. I don't know, you know mysteries history, but
I think that these light cheese that we're talking about
were from Guangzhou, possibly related to that one really expensive
(16:18):
Liichi from earlier.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Hard to say, hard to say, but I do want
to know. The emperor established over a thousand delivery spots
throughout China, not necessarily Forlichi, but as the legend goes,
this did draw some ire for using these delivery spots
(16:43):
for Laichi deliveries. True or not, this led Tolichi's developing
a mystique of being a passionate, romantic fruit. I would
love if listeners wrote it in more about that.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh yeah, yeah, I don't have any cultural attachment like
connotation to this, so please yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yes. In ten ninety five CE, Sai Hizzong wrote what
is believed to be the first dedicated text on thelaichi,
although there is another possible contender from ten fifty six EE.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And around that time there were apparently thirty two different
varietals already that we're being written about. One of the
two of these might be the first full treatise on
fruit that we have record of.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Oh wow, but.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I didn't super double check into that.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
That's cool, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Jumping ahead, the fifteen eighty five work The History of
the Great and Mighty Kingdom of China and the Situation
Thereof by Spanish Bishop Juan Gonzales de Mendoza contains the
first known European mention of the fruit. Laichi's got their
scientific name and description in the Western world in seventeen
(18:10):
eighty two thanks to French naturalist Pierre Sonora in his
work Voyage to the East Indies and China. By seventeen
seventy five, liichis were present in the Caribbean, and around
the same time in India and Thailand. Folks were growing
(18:31):
them in greenhouses in England and France by the beginning
of the eighteen hundreds. In the eighteen seventies, liichi's were
planted in Hawaii and Australia, and were in Florida and
California by the eighteen eighties and nineties.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
They spread partially thanks to Chinese immigrants moving around at
the time who carried seeds or sprouted stems with them.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yes. Professor George Groff published his work The Leichi and
the Lugan in nineteen twenty one. In it, he describes
a push in China to develop the superior Lichi. He
recognized fifteen separate cultivars. Beginning in the nineteen forties, Florida
(19:17):
laichi producers pushed to popularize their products, developing a new
method of propagation built off of Chinese methods that allowed
for them to have viable Leichi nurseries. However, Florida production
has been plagued by things like freezing temperatures and hurricanes.
Of note, though laichi trees seem to weather hurricanes better
(19:41):
than other crops, at least to one government article I
read Okay, yeah, yep. In nineteen sixty, Madagascar dipped their
toe in freezing licheese to ship to France. Research into thelichi,
(20:01):
including after it was harvested, really got underway in the
nineteen forties, though it wouldn't be until the nineteen eighties
that scientific papers started publishing on it. There was a
lot of interest around water supply and temperature's impact on
leichi growth.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, specifically on the fruiting of the plant, because again
it's like sort of finicky and so so sometimes you
might want to withhold water or like shock it a
little with temperature in order to get it to like
stress it into fruiting. I've read a lot of biological
information about like cheese over the stressful as a human
(20:42):
it's okay, I mean, the plant doesn't. I mean it's
okay for the you know, right.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Right, I know, but it's it's not shock it with temperature.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
And for for a little bit of context on that
timeline here, because you know, like like research which getting
underway in the forties and not really anything coming out
in scientific publications until the eighties.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
That's so long. That's a long period.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
But so for context, li cheese really were due to
their delicateness a local product or wherever they grew, I mean,
unless an emperor really had a hankering.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
For all of history.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And post World War two China was like generally having
a hard time for about forty years. I'm oversimplifying here,
but like for our purposes today, a lot of knowledge
about li cheese remained local during that time. In the
nineteen eighties, as the country was in reform and opening
(21:46):
up to international communication and commerce, there was a boom
in a lot of industries, including agriculture, including Lai cheese.
You know, people wanted this fruit. Growing them was profitable,
and simultaneously to that, improved technologies around transportation and cold
(22:07):
supply chain infrastructure were being developed. So so like, okay,
like to put it in perspective, during those first forty
ish years of the People's Republic of China after World
War Two, only some forty thousand metric tons of liichiese
were grown every year. That is two point seven percent
of what's being produced in China today. So from the
(22:33):
eighties through today, there has been this huge increase in
demand dovetailing with all of this research and tech that's
made meeting and even growing that demand possible, and growers
and researchers in other places have definitely gotten in on
this too.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
But yeah, yeah, well this brings us too the Leichi martini, yes, yes,
which allegedly nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh oh, that's a very precise date. Okay, that's what
I kept seeing. Nineteen ninety three, the Laichi martini was
first offered at the newly opened East Village, New York
venue Decibel. This was when the craft cocktail movement was
really getting underway in the US and everybody wanted to
stand out. I love every time we do one of
(23:26):
these things about the cocktail movement in the US.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I'm like, we're coming out of the eighties. We're crete,
but as you said, very sweet cocktails. Nonetheless, this happened
to coincide with a growing US interest in Asian ingredients
and cuisines. The drink had of vodka bass flavored with
Leichi syrup, maybe with some canned light cheese in the mix.
(23:54):
The owner of Decibel claimed that his brother already served
the same drink at a restaurant outside of Tokyo, and
he was just imitating what he was doing over there.
At the time, Laichi wasn't well known in the United States,
but this was also when cable cooking shows were introducing
(24:15):
people to new things, so.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
They were let me get sure, whicheez.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Mm hmm. That being said, as with all cocktail origin stories,
there is a competing alternate version that actually the bartenders
at the decibel were the originators, so it wasn't this
person in Tokyo. The evidence is a bit lacking in
either case, and on top of that, a few other
places lay claim or at least have a decent argument
(24:47):
that their cocktail was the jumping off of the Laichi
martini at that point. PF. Chang's started serving a Laichi
martini in two thousand and four. Okay, ok, yes, but
it really the drink really peaked in the two thousands.
But in my experience, like sheet cocktails are making a
(25:09):
comeback in recent years. There has been a focus on
balancing the sweetness of the cocktail and using fresh ingredients.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, yeah, as right.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
The cocktail scene in general has evolved a bit, and
access to fresh light cheese has evolved. In two thousand
and eight, the Chinese government set up a national light
sheet and lungdon Research System, headed by a panel of
sixteen researchers to just like keep an eye on the
industry and you know, help out with everything from like
(25:42):
field experiments to farmer education.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yes, and as we've alluded to, research continues, especially into
the genome of the light cheese.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Oh, yeah, and into lots of varietals with different properties
like seedless, light cheese, and all of those cold chain
logistics to get fresh fruit to more markets.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yes, well, I hope you get to try some fresh ones, Lauren.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I I am due for a trip to one of
our many wonderful international markets around Atlanta, where I believe
I have seen them, and Yep, we're gonna, We're gonna
do it. I'm devoted it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, that would be a great Dungeons and dragons food,
as you said, like a drag.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh yeah, they do really look like dragon eggs sometimes.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Like so something to think about.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Listeners.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Please let us know if you have had any memories, recipes,
whatever it.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Is, Oh yeah, from you. Oh please absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
But I believe that is what we have to say
about the light she for now. We do already have
some listener mail for you, though, and we are going
to get into that as soon as we get back
from one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with this listen. Yeah, do you think the
description you had of grape is a very texture wise
accuracy description.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, that's what I That's what I read a lot
of So that's what I'm that's what I'm going with.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, yes, but it looks more medieval. Oh so we
actually have two emails about Parsley. Yeah, yes, So after
hearing your Parsley episode, I thought you might like to
(28:04):
see the eastern black swallowtails I accidentally helped raise last summer.
I was leaving town for about a week and brought
some of my herbs into the kitchen from the balcony
so they wouldn't die of thirst while I was gone.
And when I returned, my dell was almost completely gone,
but I had ten caterpillars on their way to becoming butterflies.
(28:28):
Some had already gone into their chrystalids. The door frame
was quite a popular location, some were still considering, and
one was still eating. Within a few days, they all
chose a spot and later emerged, and since they were
so close to the sliding door to the balcony, relatively
(28:49):
easy to release once they had dried off. So although
I didn't get any dill last year, I did get
some lovely butterflies.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
That is so delightful in a really unexpected way.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
It is, and there are pictures. These butterflies are beautiful.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh yeah, uh, Eastern black swallowtails are incredibly gorgeous swallow
tails in general. But yeah, it's they they've got the
they've got the black with like the the yellow patterning
and then like a little bit of like blue and
red right at the butt. And that's not that's not
the correct insect term, but you guys know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
And yeah, they're little.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Chris chrysalises, cris chrysalids, and oh they're so pretty.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Also, I've never heard of this happening. I love this.
I love that they came in and were like, this
is where we're gonna be.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
They were like, well, this is comfy and it has
a really great source of food for us. We can't
open this doors, we're gonna we're just gonna hang out here. Yeah,
that's fantastic. I've never heard of this.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I love it. I'm sad you lost your dill, yes,
but you've got some pretty lovely butterflies out of it.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah. Oh yes, I'd be a little mad about the dell.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Though, I would be right, all right.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
You can always get more dill.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, Dan wrote always love the history section of the show,
but wanted to pass along a follow up. How can
you do a whole episode and not mention a sado
with Jimmy Cherry. I'm not a huge Parsley fan overall,
but there is something special about a smoked steak with
a zesty, fresh Jimmy Cherry sauce. Pick of asado for
(30:48):
a drooling factor attached from a food hall in Monte Video, Uruguay. Furthermore,
something overlooked by many outside of South America is the
unique style of Argentinian Italian food. The pizza and pasta
is very unique and just as fun as American Italian. No,
I am not from there. I just love traveling the
world and eating food and found the food history of
(31:10):
that region very cool. Quick tangent tarragon. I know you
did an episode like a year or so ago. I
can't remember if you mentioned it, but Georgian food is
very heavy on tarragon, including tarragon wine, soda and liquore,
and too many amazing dishes to spell out here. A
pick of green natural they say tarragon wine while on
(31:33):
a wine tour of Cochetti, Georgia, which is also the
oldest wine producing area in the world. I can keep
going on tangents, but we'll stop there. Smiley face.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And so yes, that picture of the asato from the
food hall is drooling inducing. Indeed, so many gorgeous it's
a it's a large form factor grill station and just
so many gorgeous cuts of meat and sausages and different things,
(32:08):
and it's visibly smoking.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
It looks so good.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I'm mad.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I'm mad that I'm not eating any of that right now,
oh my goodness. And yes, and also this glass of
extremely green wine. It's sort of like like like a
deep grass green maybe something around like a or sort
of like a like a deep ninja turtle green if that.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Oh yeah, oh oh absolutely oz green. There you go. Yeah,
good looking out.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Thanks. I yeah, I've never seen a wine that shade.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
No, I've never heard. I did not encounter anything about
tarragon wine.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
See, I completely forgot we did that episode again, There
you go. Happened to us.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yes, And about the Jimmy Churry, Oh my goodness. I
really thought I wrote a note in about that, but
it's possible that I didn't name it specifically and I
just said like herb sauce or something in specific like that,
or maybe I was just thinking about it really hard
(33:24):
and it.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Didn't make it into the notes.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I feel like happened sometimes, Oh with that one, because
there were a lot of green sauces.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, yeah, that had.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
At least at first glance, the history of going into
those was going to be very difficult. So it was
sort of like, there's a green sauce from here, there's
a green sauce from here, and we're going to have
to devote more time.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
To looking into that specific thing, right, Yeah, but there
were Oh my goodness, I y'all given me cravings, y'all
giving me more cravings?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yes, yes, And I do love that you wrote in
about the kind of Argentinian.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah, Italian so cool.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yeah, because a lot of those dishes are so like
just like you know, like Left of Albuquerque from what
Italian American dishes are and super fun.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah. And I know I've mentioned it before, but a
restaurant in Atlanta that I love Desta. They're an Ethiopian
restaurant and they have an Italian section on their menu.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Oh cool, huh, and uh, of course I do.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I finally, yeah, because the history of Italy and Ethiopia. Yeah,
and I finally ordered some from that section because I
was like, you know, this, this sort of like I've
had this before, this is not what I'm going But
when I tried it, I was like, oh my gosh,
this is so good and it is different than a
Italian American food, so this is really interesting. I'm glad
(35:04):
you wrote in about it.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Yeah, yep, yep. Well we've got more Eden to do.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Let's uh alas alas.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Thank you to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
We're also on social media.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
You can find us on Blue Sky and Instagram at
savor pod, and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
You listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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