November 20, 2024 • 24 mins
This condiment is traditionally made with extra-fancy ingredients, from expensive seafood to aged ham. Anney and Lauren dig into the history and culture behind XO sauce.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Save your Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm
Annie Resoce.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren vulglah bam, and today we have an
episode for you about exo sauce.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yes, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Lauren H.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I think while I was trying to compile episode ideas
a while back, I was looking through lists of condiments
and I was like, ooh, I want to I want
to be eating exo sauce right now. Let's look into that.
And upon my you know, brief foray into let's look
(00:48):
into that, I was like, oh, yeah, that's fun. Let's
indeed look further into that.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yes, wow, I don't know that I've ever had exosauce.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
And then after we did this, I was like, I
must get some. And as the reading warned me, it's
quite expensive.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It can be very pricey. You can usually find jars
for like three ounces ish for like fifteen bucks. That
is on the low end. And I think I just
spoiled my one number that I have in our number section.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So here we go.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
No, but you you have familiarity with it.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, I've definitely been at least one restaurant around Atlanta
that has had it on the table, and gosh, now
I'm forgetting, but yeah, like maybe it's someone's home or
maybe like a cocktail bar. I definitely started reading about
(01:54):
it a whole lot, like maybe right before the pandemic,
and got super curious about it and started like speci
looking for it, and so yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Here we are. You can see our past condiment episodes
perhaps garum chili oil, shasha scallops, worcestershure sauce.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, they're all related.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
They're all related. But I suppose that does bring us
to our question. It does exo sauce?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, Exo sauce is a type of savory seafood based
preserves in oil, like like a thick and chunky paste
that combines a bunch of ingredients into this salty, savory,
sweet punch of concentrated flavor. It can be used as
a condiment or as a seasoning during cooking. It's not
a proprietary term, so recipes will vary, but you're usually
(02:55):
looking at a sort of base of aromatic vegetables like
garlick or shallotsinger and fresh or dried hot chilies seasoned
with wine soy sauce, maybe a bit of sugar and
warm spices like star annis or cinnamon, and then with
like star ingredients of fine chopped bits of proteins that
have already themselves been intensified in flavor through the salt
(03:18):
curing process. We're talking like brined and dried scallops and
shrimp and dry cured ham. So you've got all these
layers of like savory and salty with just enough sweet
and spicy and pungent to contrast, and then you pan
fried all in oil to bring everything together. And it
can go straight on top of noodles or dumplings or rice.
(03:42):
You can use it to flavor stews or roasted vegetables
or grilled meats or sautees or sauces of whatever kind.
It is briny and a little funky and intense and complex.
It's like when you're on a walk out in nature,
or maybe window shop or like at an art gallery,
and you glance across something so fascinating that you are
(04:05):
compelled to stop and really check it out, like like
walk all the way around it, if you can like
observe the texture from different angles. It's like eating, that
feeling of fascination.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I want it. Just looking at the ingredients list, I'm like, okay,
oh yeah, I'm going to dig this. This is a
punch that I'm gonna like.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Uh yeah. It does tend to be expensive to buy
or to make yourself, because those those main protein ingredients
are pricey. That said, a little usually goes a long way,
and okay, let's talk about those ingredients a little bit
more so. Dried seafood is a category that some Americans
might not be too familiar with, but it tends to
be pretty big in like East Southeast Asian cuisines because
(04:56):
it is a great way to preserve a seafood catch
and also add a lot of flavor to a dish.
Once you've done that preservation. Typically what you're doing with
your shrimp or scallops or whatever is you know, cleaning them,
doing a wet brine, you know, just saltwater, maybe cooking
them briefly, and then drying them. And there are different
(05:18):
sizes and grades and price levels. The big high quality
varieties can be like one hundred bucks a pound, especially
the scallops, which you can sometimes find under the term conpoy,
which is taken from the Cantonese exosauce originated in Hong Kong.
Traditional recipes often include instead of, or in addition to,
(05:39):
shrimp dried shrimp row yeah, which I don't think i've
had before, but now I'm fascinated by. Yeah, And you
usually rehydrate the seafood before you cook it. The traditional
ham ingredient is a variety called jinoa ham, which is
a specialty made in Eastern China. It's drag heared ham.
(06:00):
It's preserved by being salted and dried for several months,
during which fermentation helps shape the final flavors and textures
of the ham. I don't think i've had it, like,
you can't import it in the US, but I understand.
It's nutty, smoky, salty, funky sweet, just like really rich
and dense, akin to like a hamonberrico or maybe an
(06:22):
extra cheery pershudo or like a really good country ham.
Yes right, Oh gosh, all of these are ingredients that
we could do whole episodes on, and I hope that
we will in the future. And so yeah. The alcohol
is traditionally shushing wine, which is this category of Chinese
(06:46):
rice wine. Outside of China, it's hard to get good
quality product. It's usually sold as a cooking wine. A
decent substitute would be like a dry sherry. But yeah,
you can do riffs on exo sauce that include anything
you like and use other seafood ingredients like dried fish
or squid. You can use all pork ingredients like bacon
(07:06):
and country ham. You can season it with lemon grass
or sesame oil, or punch up the savory salty flavors
with like oyster sauce, dark soy sauce, fish sauce, or bullion.
I've read recipes for vegetarian versions that get their savory
kick from ingredients like dried or smoked mushrooms, fermented and
dried vegetables, or tofu or like a fermented bean paste
(07:28):
kind of situation. All of this sounds so amazing. I'm
so mad. I'm so mad that I want to not
only be eating this right now, I want to be
like trying like twenty different varieties. If you are making
it at home, keep in mind that although like yes,
you are pan frying everything in oil, it should be
(07:48):
a low and slow fry akin to a confee, like
you want to let the oil really permeate everything, get
all those flavors playing together, and yeah, in some pots,
gets of restaurant culture, like being offered a little dish
of exo sauce with your meal is a marker of
(08:09):
fine dining hospitality along the lines of getting like a
like a amuse boosch or maybe a palate cleanser in
between courses. Like it's a way for the kitchen to
show off its technique and it's its sensibilities and to
provide like an above and beyond experience for the customer.
On the flip side, it's also a flavor now for
processed foods like ramen and potato chips.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
That's interesting. I have plumbed the depths of ramen.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I haven't seen this yet, but I'm gonna I'm gonna
seek it out.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, on the potato chip end, I know that Lay's excellent.
Thailand branch has had this as a flavor a few times,
So look out for that.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Listeners, Well, let us know, let us know. Oh yeah, yeah,
Well what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
You know, you're not typically eating enough to make a
nutritive difference, but it is a nutrient dense food. Eat
a vegetable, drink of water. Yeah, yeah, yes, well.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
We have a number for you that perhaps will spoil,
but yes.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, so a small jar of exosos will run you
about fifteen bucks on the low end, I'm talking like
a condiment sized jar, right like three ounces, which is
eighty grams or thereabouts. A jar from the restaurant that
supposedly invented it is on the higher end, which is
around fifty five bucks.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yes, and I got to say, there's a lot of
people vying for this.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Supposedly invented the.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Fart there is.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
It's sort of one of those legendary things. But yeah,
we are going to get into that in the history
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from a quick break for word
from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, so yes. According to
most sources, Exo sauce originated in Hong Kong in the
nineteen seventies and eighties, most likely at upscale restaurants. The
sauce was composed of pretty expensive and high quality ingredients
like dried scallop, jin wa ham and shrimpro so it
(10:32):
makes sense that it may have been a condiment at
fancier restaurants. First, very quick breakdown of those ingredients, all
of which should could be their own episodes. First, jinoa ham.
This ham goes back to at least the tenth century CE.
(10:52):
It is believed to be the oldest dried ham type
in China. According to some Marco Polo took these cuing
and drying techniques from China back to Europe after his
time there. The pig itself traditionally used for the sam,
has been present in the country for an estimated sixteen
(11:13):
hundred or more years nowadays, and at the time of
Exo's invention it wasn't is expensive and kind of rare.
Then there are dried scallops our compoy in Hong Kong,
as they're called, were the results of folks trying to
preserve seafood and in this case often expensive type of seafood.
(11:37):
They go as far back as two hundred BCE, though
clearly methods have changed. I read it described as like
the most delicious bacon of the sea.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Right, you spend one hundred bucks in a bag of these?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So bad I know, right?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And then very similar story with dried shrimp. Essentially, as
long as people have been catching things like shrimp. They'd
been seasoning them and then drying them to preserve them,
but still could be very expensive process.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
There's another theory that perhaps Exo sauce was the result
of chefs in Hong Kong experimenting with chili oil, but
there isn't much to substantiate that claim. Hong Kong restaurants
Spring Moon at the famous Peninsula Hotel claims that they
came up with this sauce in nineteen eighty six. They
(12:38):
call their version of Exo Exo Chili Sauce okay, and
theirs was a combo of dried scallop, shrimpro chili, and garlic,
which does sound delicious.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Oh yeah yes.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
In this version of events, the sauce was the inspiration
of food critic and writer Wong Ting Shu. He was
working as a consultant at the restaurant in eighty six
and I was like, hey, what if we did this?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
What if? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Another theory is that food critic Twa Lamb made a
similar sauce to modern day Exo sauce with dried scallops
and shimpro and served it to famous folks and then
just took off from there. Others say that this sauce
was being made at seafood restaurants already, and all of
these examples were perhaps people or venues that popularized it
(13:33):
like it was a thing.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, and they just.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
They just realized they could make some money off of it.
But then food company Lee come Key frequently gets credit
for taking an existing sauce, modifying it a bit, and
marketing it as Exo sauce. Lee come Keys sauce debuted
in nineteen ninety two. I didn't know this, and I
(13:58):
kind of felt ashamed because I feel like I should,
as like food and Treat podcastery.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I've not done an episode about this yet, so we're
still learning.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
I was like, oh, I should have Okay. Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
The name XO apparently has to do with the popular
brand of Kangnac and trends and taste of the time.
So in the eighties, Hennessy had a lot of success
in their launch and advertising up their aged XO grade
Kangnac XO meaning extra holes. The whole campaign worked so
(14:37):
well that in Hong Kong people started using the slang
XO to mean something high quality, luxurious, the best. Since
the sauce used expensive ingredients. The company thought, why not
use this slang for the name That restaurant. Spring Moon
(14:57):
has a similar reasoning for the name on their site.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
When naming their new condiment, the chefs reportedly took inspiration
from the labels of luxury kgnacs, which used XO to
denote an extra old, expensively aged brandy. And yeah, it
became this sauce very popular throughout China, Southern China specifically
(15:22):
fairly quickly.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, yeah, and it really started gaining ground in the
US right around twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
So many memories twenty nineteen, Oh goodness, I do think
we did talk about a couple of things where when
like the pandemic was happening and quarantine was happening in
the US, we were like, let me try you know
what I want chili oil.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, I need literally anything to entertain me. And if
that's EXO sauce, let's go. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
The whole the whole ad campaign is really charming, Like
it was this lady being like, oh, that dude, he's
he's an EXO dude. Yeah. Oh and yeah, uh, the
sauce has nothing to do with Kanyac. There's never any
kind of in it from what I personally understand I read.
(16:24):
I read tales of some chefs attempting to incorporate kangnac
and it not working out, just being a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
So yeah, I can see that. I honestly thought it
was like kisses, hugs and kisses.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Oh okay, yeah sure, yeah, so this was.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
News to me.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Again, I'm learning every day, but it sounds so good
I want to try it.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, yes, I just have.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So many I can see how it could improve, like
a little bit and like a soup stock or something like.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Just a little just one of those things sort of
like a like go chi jung or something where it
just it just adds something to pretty much anything that
you put it in as a sort of just like
like a little secret ingredient.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, I'm really big into soups, which is no surprise
to anyone. But I've been making a lot of like
Asian cell soups lately and I don't have specific ingredients,
but I found after we did that Shasha episode, like
(17:38):
you can use that just a little bit of that
and your soup stock and it will make up for
that flavor whatever ingredient you don't have I I'm making
that tonight, so I like thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Oh that sounds amazing. All right, well, I think that
that is what we have to say about Exosauce for now.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
It is. But we do have some listener mail for you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
And we're back.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you. And we're back with
just fancy meal.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh okay, oh okay, taking the dish off of a
fancy meal.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
That okay.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I was like, are we pulling a rabbit out of
a hat? What's going on?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But that makes more sense, That makes more sense.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I was gonna do a whole beauty in the beast thing.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
But again, sometimes I gotta tame my expectations for what
we can't accomplish.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I appreciate that the thought is there though.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yes, so we have gotten a couple of messages about
Almond Joys or adjacent to Almondjoys. I'm very excited about
this and we have two for you today, starting with Christina.
Christina wrote, I couldn't tell you the last time I
(19:22):
had an almenjoy They had almost been wiped from my
memory until your podcast reminded me they exist. They were
my mom's favorite candy growing up, so I ate them often.
I had a very specific way of consuming. One bite
off the candy on either end of the almond on
the short side of the bar. Two bite off the
(19:44):
candy on the other side, Jess, so you have the
almond area. Left, bite off the part under the almond.
Three four, lastly eat the almond. Thanks to the memories,
Now to go find some moment choice.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I love this.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I love not only the particular nature of eating something,
but like we have these candies we're so specific about anyway,
and then you get even more.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Specific in it.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
What always comes up in my friend group is I
don't like I'm fine with it, but I don't prefer
it the icing and oreos. Oh, I prefer the cookie.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, but it very sweet.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
The opposite for almost everyone I know, really weird. Yes,
so they always are like, what are you doing? I
just want to enjoy this cookie part without that part.
But it's funny to me how people have their specific ways. Yeah,
(20:56):
they're a little enjoying rituals.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, sure, I think I think I all so would
I don't think I did the thing on the on
the short sides, but I would like isolate the almond.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Isolate the almonds.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I used to have a specific method of eating like
the Big Reese's cups.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Oh right, I would like twist off. Oh I get that.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, yeah, but it was kind of tricky she could
pull off. So I yeah, I would love if other
listeners wrote it about your specific methods of eating candy.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yes, yes, oh always, Oh my goodness, Kelsey wrote. Here
in Canada we have bounty bars. Maybe our commonwealth status
versus the USA giving the British the old heave hoe
plays into a lack of bounty state side. Almond joined
mounds are relatively rare here, though I too, am very
familiar with their jingle extolling the virtues of nuts and
(21:52):
a lack thereof. Depending on one's desire, either bounty does
not have a jingle or it's unremarkable enough that it's
not engraved on my brain adjacently. In this country, smarties
are a slightly broader, somewhat creamier, sweeter version of eminems
and what Americans know as smart as we call rockets.
All are tasty. I, for one, find these regional differences.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Very sweet. Yes, yes, approves.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Oh, I always forget about that. That's smarties versus smarties difference. Yeah,
because I've definitely had those, not eminem's that are Smarties.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I don't know that I have, but I do.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
This is another thing I love is hearing the contrast
in other countries what something is in preferences. But I'm
glad to know you have bounty bars.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So I guess Annie's not jealous at all.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I guess I could just cross the border, I guess so.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, No, I mean we can, we can work this out.
I have faith in us in this the year of
our Lord twenty twenty four, to get you a candy barn.
I think it can. I think it can happen. I'm
also glad I'm not the only one with that jingle
just permanently in my head. So that makes me feel
a little bit better or worse. I don't know which.
(23:28):
I like. I'm misery loves company. I'm I'm not miserable
about it. I'm always just like, really, that why that.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
That's what you're holding on to bring?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, I guess it's because sometimes you feel like a
nut and sometimes you don't.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
They knew what was up.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
They did.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
They were speaking a truth true.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Line. Well, thank you to both of these listeners for
writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can. Our email is Hello at saborpod dot com.
We are also on social media. You can as of
this moment, find us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at
saber pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Save your Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm
Annie Resoce.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren vulglah bam, and today we have an
episode for you about exo sauce.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yes, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Lauren H.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I think while I was trying to compile episode ideas
a while back, I was looking through lists of condiments
and I was like, ooh, I want to I want
to be eating exo sauce right now. Let's look into that.
And upon my you know, brief foray into let's look
(00:48):
into that, I was like, oh, yeah, that's fun. Let's
indeed look further into that.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yes, wow, I don't know that I've ever had exosauce.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
And then after we did this, I was like, I
must get some. And as the reading warned me, it's
quite expensive.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It can be very pricey. You can usually find jars
for like three ounces ish for like fifteen bucks. That
is on the low end. And I think I just
spoiled my one number that I have in our number section.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So here we go.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
No, but you you have familiarity with it.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, I've definitely been at least one restaurant around Atlanta
that has had it on the table, and gosh, now
I'm forgetting, but yeah, like maybe it's someone's home or
maybe like a cocktail bar. I definitely started reading about
(01:54):
it a whole lot, like maybe right before the pandemic,
and got super curious about it and started like speci
looking for it, and so yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Here we are. You can see our past condiment episodes
perhaps garum chili oil, shasha scallops, worcestershure sauce.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, they're all related.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
They're all related. But I suppose that does bring us
to our question. It does exo sauce?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, Exo sauce is a type of savory seafood based
preserves in oil, like like a thick and chunky paste
that combines a bunch of ingredients into this salty, savory,
sweet punch of concentrated flavor. It can be used as
a condiment or as a seasoning during cooking. It's not
a proprietary term, so recipes will vary, but you're usually
(02:55):
looking at a sort of base of aromatic vegetables like
garlick or shallotsinger and fresh or dried hot chilies seasoned
with wine soy sauce, maybe a bit of sugar and
warm spices like star annis or cinnamon, and then with
like star ingredients of fine chopped bits of proteins that
have already themselves been intensified in flavor through the salt
(03:18):
curing process. We're talking like brined and dried scallops and
shrimp and dry cured ham. So you've got all these
layers of like savory and salty with just enough sweet
and spicy and pungent to contrast, and then you pan
fried all in oil to bring everything together. And it
can go straight on top of noodles or dumplings or rice.
(03:42):
You can use it to flavor stews or roasted vegetables
or grilled meats or sautees or sauces of whatever kind.
It is briny and a little funky and intense and complex.
It's like when you're on a walk out in nature,
or maybe window shop or like at an art gallery,
and you glance across something so fascinating that you are
(04:05):
compelled to stop and really check it out, like like
walk all the way around it, if you can like
observe the texture from different angles. It's like eating, that
feeling of fascination.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I want it. Just looking at the ingredients list, I'm like, okay,
oh yeah, I'm going to dig this. This is a
punch that I'm gonna like.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Uh yeah. It does tend to be expensive to buy
or to make yourself, because those those main protein ingredients
are pricey. That said, a little usually goes a long way,
and okay, let's talk about those ingredients a little bit
more so. Dried seafood is a category that some Americans
might not be too familiar with, but it tends to
be pretty big in like East Southeast Asian cuisines because
(04:56):
it is a great way to preserve a seafood catch
and also add a lot of flavor to a dish.
Once you've done that preservation. Typically what you're doing with
your shrimp or scallops or whatever is you know, cleaning them,
doing a wet brine, you know, just saltwater, maybe cooking
them briefly, and then drying them. And there are different
(05:18):
sizes and grades and price levels. The big high quality
varieties can be like one hundred bucks a pound, especially
the scallops, which you can sometimes find under the term conpoy,
which is taken from the Cantonese exosauce originated in Hong Kong.
Traditional recipes often include instead of, or in addition to,
(05:39):
shrimp dried shrimp row yeah, which I don't think i've
had before, but now I'm fascinated by. Yeah, And you
usually rehydrate the seafood before you cook it. The traditional
ham ingredient is a variety called jinoa ham, which is
a specialty made in Eastern China. It's drag heared ham.
(06:00):
It's preserved by being salted and dried for several months,
during which fermentation helps shape the final flavors and textures
of the ham. I don't think i've had it, like,
you can't import it in the US, but I understand.
It's nutty, smoky, salty, funky sweet, just like really rich
and dense, akin to like a hamonberrico or maybe an
(06:22):
extra cheery pershudo or like a really good country ham.
Yes right, Oh gosh, all of these are ingredients that
we could do whole episodes on, and I hope that
we will in the future. And so yeah. The alcohol
is traditionally shushing wine, which is this category of Chinese
(06:46):
rice wine. Outside of China, it's hard to get good
quality product. It's usually sold as a cooking wine. A
decent substitute would be like a dry sherry. But yeah,
you can do riffs on exo sauce that include anything
you like and use other seafood ingredients like dried fish
or squid. You can use all pork ingredients like bacon
(07:06):
and country ham. You can season it with lemon grass
or sesame oil, or punch up the savory salty flavors
with like oyster sauce, dark soy sauce, fish sauce, or bullion.
I've read recipes for vegetarian versions that get their savory
kick from ingredients like dried or smoked mushrooms, fermented and
dried vegetables, or tofu or like a fermented bean paste
(07:28):
kind of situation. All of this sounds so amazing. I'm
so mad. I'm so mad that I want to not
only be eating this right now, I want to be
like trying like twenty different varieties. If you are making
it at home, keep in mind that although like yes,
you are pan frying everything in oil, it should be
(07:48):
a low and slow fry akin to a confee, like
you want to let the oil really permeate everything, get
all those flavors playing together, and yeah, in some pots,
gets of restaurant culture, like being offered a little dish
of exo sauce with your meal is a marker of
(08:09):
fine dining hospitality along the lines of getting like a
like a amuse boosch or maybe a palate cleanser in
between courses. Like it's a way for the kitchen to
show off its technique and it's its sensibilities and to
provide like an above and beyond experience for the customer.
On the flip side, it's also a flavor now for
processed foods like ramen and potato chips.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
That's interesting. I have plumbed the depths of ramen.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I haven't seen this yet, but I'm gonna I'm gonna
seek it out.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, on the potato chip end, I know that Lay's excellent.
Thailand branch has had this as a flavor a few times,
So look out for that.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Listeners, Well, let us know, let us know. Oh yeah, yeah,
Well what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
You know, you're not typically eating enough to make a
nutritive difference, but it is a nutrient dense food. Eat
a vegetable, drink of water. Yeah, yeah, yes, well.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
We have a number for you that perhaps will spoil,
but yes.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, so a small jar of exosos will run you
about fifteen bucks on the low end, I'm talking like
a condiment sized jar, right like three ounces, which is
eighty grams or thereabouts. A jar from the restaurant that
supposedly invented it is on the higher end, which is
around fifty five bucks.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yes, and I got to say, there's a lot of
people vying for this.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Supposedly invented the.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Fart there is.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
It's sort of one of those legendary things. But yeah,
we are going to get into that in the history
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from a quick break for word
from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, so yes. According to
most sources, Exo sauce originated in Hong Kong in the
nineteen seventies and eighties, most likely at upscale restaurants. The
sauce was composed of pretty expensive and high quality ingredients
like dried scallop, jin wa ham and shrimpro so it
(10:32):
makes sense that it may have been a condiment at
fancier restaurants. First, very quick breakdown of those ingredients, all
of which should could be their own episodes. First, jinoa ham.
This ham goes back to at least the tenth century CE.
(10:52):
It is believed to be the oldest dried ham type
in China. According to some Marco Polo took these cuing
and drying techniques from China back to Europe after his
time there. The pig itself traditionally used for the sam,
has been present in the country for an estimated sixteen
(11:13):
hundred or more years nowadays, and at the time of
Exo's invention it wasn't is expensive and kind of rare.
Then there are dried scallops our compoy in Hong Kong,
as they're called, were the results of folks trying to
preserve seafood and in this case often expensive type of seafood.
(11:37):
They go as far back as two hundred BCE, though
clearly methods have changed. I read it described as like
the most delicious bacon of the sea.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Right, you spend one hundred bucks in a bag of these?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So bad I know, right?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And then very similar story with dried shrimp. Essentially, as
long as people have been catching things like shrimp. They'd
been seasoning them and then drying them to preserve them,
but still could be very expensive process.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
There's another theory that perhaps Exo sauce was the result
of chefs in Hong Kong experimenting with chili oil, but
there isn't much to substantiate that claim. Hong Kong restaurants
Spring Moon at the famous Peninsula Hotel claims that they
came up with this sauce in nineteen eighty six. They
(12:38):
call their version of Exo Exo Chili Sauce okay, and
theirs was a combo of dried scallop, shrimpro chili, and garlic,
which does sound delicious.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Oh yeah yes.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
In this version of events, the sauce was the inspiration
of food critic and writer Wong Ting Shu. He was
working as a consultant at the restaurant in eighty six
and I was like, hey, what if we did this?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
What if? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Another theory is that food critic Twa Lamb made a
similar sauce to modern day Exo sauce with dried scallops
and shimpro and served it to famous folks and then
just took off from there. Others say that this sauce
was being made at seafood restaurants already, and all of
these examples were perhaps people or venues that popularized it
(13:33):
like it was a thing.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, and they just.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
They just realized they could make some money off of it.
But then food company Lee come Key frequently gets credit
for taking an existing sauce, modifying it a bit, and
marketing it as Exo sauce. Lee come Keys sauce debuted
in nineteen ninety two. I didn't know this, and I
(13:58):
kind of felt ashamed because I feel like I should,
as like food and Treat podcastery.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I've not done an episode about this yet, so we're
still learning.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
I was like, oh, I should have Okay. Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
The name XO apparently has to do with the popular
brand of Kangnac and trends and taste of the time.
So in the eighties, Hennessy had a lot of success
in their launch and advertising up their aged XO grade
Kangnac XO meaning extra holes. The whole campaign worked so
(14:37):
well that in Hong Kong people started using the slang
XO to mean something high quality, luxurious, the best. Since
the sauce used expensive ingredients. The company thought, why not
use this slang for the name That restaurant. Spring Moon
(14:57):
has a similar reasoning for the name on their site.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
When naming their new condiment, the chefs reportedly took inspiration
from the labels of luxury kgnacs, which used XO to
denote an extra old, expensively aged brandy. And yeah, it
became this sauce very popular throughout China, Southern China specifically
(15:22):
fairly quickly.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, yeah, and it really started gaining ground in the
US right around twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
So many memories twenty nineteen, Oh goodness, I do think
we did talk about a couple of things where when
like the pandemic was happening and quarantine was happening in
the US, we were like, let me try you know
what I want chili oil.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, I need literally anything to entertain me. And if
that's EXO sauce, let's go. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
The whole the whole ad campaign is really charming, Like
it was this lady being like, oh, that dude, he's
he's an EXO dude. Yeah. Oh and yeah, uh, the
sauce has nothing to do with Kanyac. There's never any
kind of in it from what I personally understand I read.
(16:24):
I read tales of some chefs attempting to incorporate kangnac
and it not working out, just being a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
So yeah, I can see that. I honestly thought it
was like kisses, hugs and kisses.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Oh okay, yeah sure, yeah, so this was.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
News to me.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Again, I'm learning every day, but it sounds so good
I want to try it.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, yes, I just have.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So many I can see how it could improve, like
a little bit and like a soup stock or something like.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Just a little just one of those things sort of
like a like go chi jung or something where it
just it just adds something to pretty much anything that
you put it in as a sort of just like
like a little secret ingredient.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, I'm really big into soups, which is no surprise
to anyone. But I've been making a lot of like
Asian cell soups lately and I don't have specific ingredients,
but I found after we did that Shasha episode, like
(17:38):
you can use that just a little bit of that
and your soup stock and it will make up for
that flavor whatever ingredient you don't have I I'm making
that tonight, so I like thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Oh that sounds amazing. All right, well, I think that
that is what we have to say about Exosauce for now.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
It is. But we do have some listener mail for you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
And we're back.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you. And we're back with
just fancy meal.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh okay, oh okay, taking the dish off of a
fancy meal.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
That okay.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I was like, are we pulling a rabbit out of
a hat? What's going on?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But that makes more sense, That makes more sense.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I was gonna do a whole beauty in the beast thing.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
But again, sometimes I gotta tame my expectations for what
we can't accomplish.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I appreciate that the thought is there though.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yes, so we have gotten a couple of messages about
Almond Joys or adjacent to Almondjoys. I'm very excited about
this and we have two for you today, starting with Christina.
Christina wrote, I couldn't tell you the last time I
(19:22):
had an almenjoy They had almost been wiped from my
memory until your podcast reminded me they exist. They were
my mom's favorite candy growing up, so I ate them often.
I had a very specific way of consuming. One bite
off the candy on either end of the almond on
the short side of the bar. Two bite off the
(19:44):
candy on the other side, Jess, so you have the
almond area. Left, bite off the part under the almond.
Three four, lastly eat the almond. Thanks to the memories,
Now to go find some moment choice.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I love this.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I love not only the particular nature of eating something,
but like we have these candies we're so specific about anyway,
and then you get even more.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Specific in it.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
What always comes up in my friend group is I
don't like I'm fine with it, but I don't prefer
it the icing and oreos. Oh, I prefer the cookie.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, but it very sweet.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
The opposite for almost everyone I know, really weird. Yes,
so they always are like, what are you doing? I
just want to enjoy this cookie part without that part.
But it's funny to me how people have their specific ways. Yeah,
(20:56):
they're a little enjoying rituals.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, sure, I think I think I all so would
I don't think I did the thing on the on
the short sides, but I would like isolate the almond.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Isolate the almonds.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I used to have a specific method of eating like
the Big Reese's cups.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Oh right, I would like twist off. Oh I get that.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, yeah, but it was kind of tricky she could
pull off. So I yeah, I would love if other
listeners wrote it about your specific methods of eating candy.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yes, yes, oh always, Oh my goodness, Kelsey wrote. Here
in Canada we have bounty bars. Maybe our commonwealth status
versus the USA giving the British the old heave hoe
plays into a lack of bounty state side. Almond joined
mounds are relatively rare here, though I too, am very
familiar with their jingle extolling the virtues of nuts and
(21:52):
a lack thereof. Depending on one's desire, either bounty does
not have a jingle or it's unremarkable enough that it's
not engraved on my brain adjacently. In this country, smarties
are a slightly broader, somewhat creamier, sweeter version of eminems
and what Americans know as smart as we call rockets.
All are tasty. I, for one, find these regional differences.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Very sweet. Yes, yes, approves.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Oh, I always forget about that. That's smarties versus smarties difference. Yeah,
because I've definitely had those, not eminem's that are Smarties.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I don't know that I have, but I do.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
This is another thing I love is hearing the contrast
in other countries what something is in preferences. But I'm
glad to know you have bounty bars.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So I guess Annie's not jealous at all.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I guess I could just cross the border, I guess so.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, No, I mean we can, we can work this out.
I have faith in us in this the year of
our Lord twenty twenty four, to get you a candy barn.
I think it can. I think it can happen. I'm
also glad I'm not the only one with that jingle
just permanently in my head. So that makes me feel
a little bit better or worse. I don't know which.
(23:28):
I like. I'm misery loves company. I'm I'm not miserable
about it. I'm always just like, really, that why that.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
That's what you're holding on to bring?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, I guess it's because sometimes you feel like a
nut and sometimes you don't.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
They knew what was up.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
They did.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
They were speaking a truth true.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Line. Well, thank you to both of these listeners for
writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can. Our email is Hello at saborpod dot com.
We are also on social media. You can as of
this moment, find us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at
saber pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.