April 29, 2026 • 44 mins
This style of beer – the most popular in the world today – represents the cutting edge of brewing technology from the 1840s. Anney and Lauren hop into the science and history of pilsners.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Predicture of iHeartRadio. I'm any
Race and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode for
you about Pilsner beer.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Indeed, we do.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Drink responsibly always always, uh huh always.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Was there a particular reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Lauren?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, we are starting to get into some warmer weather
here in Atlanta, Georgia, and h Pilsner is a nice
warm weather beer. And also it has been on our
list for years and we have been staring at it askance,
(00:50):
with fear and respect, and uh yeah, I just went sure, heckett.
I think that we've covered enough other bases that we
can approach Pilsner.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Pilsner is the specter that has hung over every beer
episode we've ever done.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
That's accurate, Yes, that is yep.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
We have probably mentioned it in every single other beer
episode we've talked about because it's intense popularity. The word
I read more than once today was decimated other beer
styles true, but wo yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It's honestly not my favorite style of beer, although a
really like you know, like in terms of like like
like sure, grab a pack of Miller Light. That's not
my favorite type of beer to drink. I would generally
rather just not have a beer at that juncture, and
like I could have a water and have a better time.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
To be honest, but.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
A really good one kind of like traditionally made with
a lot of care, is a lovely thing, and I
think I didn't discover that until I've mentioned this spot
in Atlanta before Halfway Crooks opened over in Summer Hill
a number of years back, making really nice traditional german
(02:29):
Ish style of beers.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, I think if you find a good one, Chris refreshing, lovely.
Oh yeah, oh yes, I had a couple of good
ones when I was in Europe. When I was like
the first time I went to Europe, I was lucky
enough to have somebody I was traveling with who was
like a beer Kndosse Oh cool, and.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
He guided me as to what I should try.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Oh that's a really critical to be honest, Yes, especially
because I was younger, and when you're younger you do
kind of I don't know if make mistakes, but maybe
like go for the cheaper option.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You don't know, you.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Don't know what you're doing, You're you're you're acting at random.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, yes, exactly, so shout out to him. To this day,
I still drink some of the things he recommended me.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Oh yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Well, as we said, you could pretty much listen to
every beer episode we've done.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And this is.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Related at least a little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yep, yep, exactly exactly. But I guess that brings us
to our question.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I think it does.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Pillsners. What are they?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, Pilsners are a category of logger beer with clean,
crisp like wheat cracker flavors, with a balanced bitterness and
a little bit of herbal or floral spice and a
lovely pale gold color, perfectly translucent with fine bubbles and
fluffy white foam or head. Brewers achieve this by using good,
(04:18):
simple ingredients, often just one malt and one hop, and
finessing the heck out of the production process. There are
different regional varieties that aim for slightly different iterations on
the concept, but pilsners are really a love letter to
the refined science and control of the brewing process. They're
(04:39):
consumed on their own or are nice paired with lots
of different snacks and meals. They can let fresh light
flavors shine or cut through fattier, heavier flavors. They've gotten
a bit of a wrap as like a basic beer.
And certainly they are easy sipping because they're so crisp
and hover right around like five percent alcohol by volume,
(05:00):
but they can have lots of delicate nuance to appreciate.
Pilsner's are very modern in the way that like gas
lights are modern. Okay, like they're technically old fashioned at
this point, but were once just a technological superlative in
their category and just so beautifully clear and golden with light.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, they changed the whole industry.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
A culmination of everything that was going on in brewing
in Europe in the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Uh. You might sometimes see a Pilsner style beer labeled
a pills or a pill Center pill Center. Sure, I
don't know, and these are not just nicknames. They're actually
a nod of respect. The style originated in Pillsen in
what's now the Czech Republic, and Pilsner in fact means
from pills In. So tradition has only Pilsner style beers
(06:04):
made in pills In be labeled Pilsner, but not everyone
holds to that anyway. Okay, h beer one oh one
beer is an alcoholic beverage made from malted grain, water, yeast,
and usually hops. You boil the malt in water to
release its sugars, then add yeast, which eats those sugars
(06:26):
and poops carbon dioxide, alcohol and flavor yeast poop. And
during the process you can add other stuff to flavor beer,
like hops, which also kind of stabilizes it and balances
the sweet, rich flavors from the malt and the yeast.
There are a lot of ways to tweak this system
(06:48):
to get all kinds of different results. So let's unpack
all of this a little bit and see what's going
on with Pilsner's in particular. Okay, the malt malted just
means germinated and dried. So you take a grain and
create an environment in which it will start to germinate.
Grains or seeds, they contain proteins that code for growing
(07:10):
a plant, plus starches to feed that hypothetical growth, all
wrapped up in a sturdy and portable package. So, given
moisture and a pleasant temperature, a seed of grain will
start to grow a plant. And one of the very
first steps is breaking down those starches into sugars for
(07:30):
easy processing. So when you molt grains, you're using that
natural process to do some of your work for you,
creating those sugars that you want your yeasts to eat
so that they will create alcohol and stuff. Because you
don't want a whole plant, though, you stop the germination
process by drying out the grains in what's called kilning.
(07:53):
And kilning is this whole complex science slash art, but
very basically, in the case of Pilsner's, if you can
dry the grains out hot and quick, they'll remain pale
and clean tasting. They won't like turn dark colors and
take on any kind of toasty, roasty flavors, just nice
(08:13):
and clean. You can use all kinds of grains to
make malts, but the traditional one for Pilsners is barley,
and look a nice sweet barley at that. More on
that in the history section. Hops Hops are the flower
of a climbing plant that adds flavors, especially bitter, herbal, floral,
and kind of spice flavors to your beer super bonus.
(08:35):
They also inhibit the growth of unwanted microorganisms and especially bacteria.
They furthermore help stabilize beer's foam love that the traditional
one in pilsners is the sots hop. I think I'm
saying that correctly. It has these lovely woody floral aromatics
and and a relatively low bitterness on the palate.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeast.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Okay, I said the east is a lagger, and that
refers to the type of yeast that's used to brew it.
Laggers are made with yeasts that thrive at relatively cool temperatures,
about like forty to fifty degrees fahrenheit, which is about
five to ten celsius. These are sometimes called bottom fermenting
yeasts because they easily sink to the bottom of a
fermenting vessel, and traditionally we're collected from the bottom when
(09:23):
making the next batch of beer. In contrast, the yeasts
that make ales thrive at warmer temperatures like a whole
twenty degrees fahrenheit or fifteen degrees celsius warmer, and they
are top fermenting, meaning that they kick up more foam
at the top of the vessel and are collected from
the top when they're done. Anyway, those lower temperatures of
(09:44):
laggers mean that the fermentation process happens more slowly and
in the case of Pilsner's, you probably take like two
to three weeks to complete fermentation. The resulting beers, furthermore,
will really benefit from being aged a bit in cold condition.
This process is known as laggering, and for Pilsners it
(10:04):
can take another four to six weeks or more at
like near freezing temperatures. More specifically, the yeasts used for
laggers are varieties of a species called Sakramic's. Pastorianis in
honor of Louis Pastor's contributions to brewing, including his early
recognition the top dwelling and bottom dwelling yeasts were like
(10:25):
inherently distinct. For Pilsners, you're looking for a lagger yeast
with a high level of conversion of sugars to alcohol,
which is called attenuation. But uh yeah, a beer is
more than its ingredients. Exactly how you treat them matters,
As any brewer can and will tell you, there is
(10:50):
a lot of information out there about brewing Pilsners that's
a little bit beyond the scope of our episode today.
You know, like exactly how you cook the malt, the
exact strain of the yeast, the times and the temperatures
for everything, The thing that I read over and over
is that this is a beer that you have to
be patient and careful with because the ingredients are so
(11:12):
like simple and delicate that your mistakes will show. Oh yeah, yeah,
Like I said, there are a few different styles of
pilsner within the greater category. Check styles may have like richer,
multier flavors and might include like a tiny hint of
butter in there, not actual butter butter flavor, thank you.
(11:37):
German styles tend to be lighter and drier in flavor
and a little paler in color. Italian styles are more happy,
often being dry hopped during brewing. There are subcategories of
German styles, because of course there are the ones clower
to Chechia are more chechy.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
American styles are traditionally close to German styles, except when
they're blander or when they use IPSS for something completely different.
New Zealand style does whatever it wants. I think it
can use ale yeasts. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I'm once again overwhelmed and we've already completed this outline.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Uh yeah, I really want to explore more of this now.
But okay, a final note in the what is it
category is that these are beers that are meant to
be consumed fresh, Like if you're buying pilsner's imported, attempt
to check.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Their expiry date.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
This can come in the form of brood on dates
or best buy dates or codes that you'd have to
look up, which, to be honest, I just wouldn't. I
would just be like, well whatever, sure, but anyway, if
you can, you want something under six months old, like
you are not looking for the dustiest bottle in the
cellar in this case.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
No, no, no, no no, all right, well what about
the nutrition drink responsibly? Yeah, yeah, we do have some
numbers for you.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
We do.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Apparently pilsners are by far the most popular style of
beer worldwide, Like, well over half of all beers sold
our pilsner style. What like, the market is worth some
ninety three point six billion dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
WHOA so still hanging in there?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, although what you what you call
a pilsner is a little contentious sometimes, but but I
guess speaking of In twenty fifteen, the classic and indeed
original Czech beer pilsner or kel past two million.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Hecta leaders sold in a year h uh huh uh huh.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yep, yep, it is fascinating to think of its Like
you said, how it was such a technological innovation when
it came out and now it feels kind of so
historical to us, and yet.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It clearly has this staying powers.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, And there are a lot of
historical reasons for that, which we will get into as
soon as we get back from a quick break.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
For a word from our sponsors, and we're back, Thank
you sponsor.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
So.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
As mentioned in our previous beer episodes, beer is old,
like before humans invented the wheel, old.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Or maybe right around then. Alcohol is certainly older than
the wheel.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yes, his stories believe that beer originated in ancient Mesopotamia.
Over time, different beer styles developed based on regional techniques
and ingredients. A lot of these early beers weren't consistent
in flavor because it was kind of up to the
ferment and other conditions like higher temperature required to get
(15:35):
the fermentation process rolling.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So you were sort of at the mercy of whatever
your environment was doing.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yep. Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
When it comes to hops, wild and cultivated varieties existed
in Central Europe, which is mainly what we're talking about
when we're talking about Pilsner by the Middle Ages. Historical
text and archaeological finds suggests that hops were being used
for beer brewing in Central Europe by the ninth century CE.
It took until the thirteenth century before they became a
(16:08):
common ingredient, though, as people started to appreciate the preservative
properties of hops along with its flavor and aroma. Pilsen,
the home of the Pilsner, located in what is now
modern day Czech Republic, was founded in twelve ninety five
CE by King Winsol Sloss second, Did.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I get it right for it? Yes? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It soon grew because it was long at least two
trade routes. The first known written mention of a brewery
in Pilsen appeared in thirteen oh seven.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
And this area was historically known as Bohemia. It's fallen
under a bunch of different rules over the centuries, but
that is the subject for a whole different podcast.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yes, indeed, it is.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Hops cultivation and what is now the Czech Republic expanded
in the fourteenth century with a growing demand for beer.
The thoughts hop, the type of hop primarily used in
the first Pilsners was being commercially cultivated by the mid
thirteen hundreds. The name comes from the German name for
a town outside of Prague that was a center of
(17:18):
cultivation for these hops.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Also around the thirteen hundreds, brewers a bit to the
west in what's now Germany then Bavaria, started the practice
of aging fresh beer in cold cellars. And this was
the beginning of laggering.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, and this brings us to something else that comes
up in a lot of our beer episodes, German purity laws.
So German purity laws adopted in several other European countries
in fifteen sixteen dictated that beer can only have three
ingredients water, hops and barley.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Later yeast was added to the list.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, and this was also in Bavaria. Later in fifteen
fifty three, and adendum dictated when beer could be brewed,
and it cut out summertime brewing entirely like May through September,
which meant that for a while there, colder fermenting yeasts
would have started to have an edge. It's thought that
(18:20):
the logger yeasts that we know today evolved over the
next century and like really caught on with brewers in
the area. At this point in history, most beers would
have been dark in color due to the types of
fuels that were available for toasting or roasting malts. Starting
around the early seventeen hundreds, though, British maltsters started working
(18:44):
with a new fuel called coke. Folks working with coal
had derived it back in the sixteen hundreds, and it
burned just hotter and cleaner than anything anyone had ever
used before. It drove industrial development from iron to steel
to glass, and also made its way into brewing. Malts
with coke could be finished without so much smoke. It
(19:06):
was paler and tasted cleaner than malts roasted with wood
or whatever. The resulting very pale malts and British pale
ales were more expensive, but very posh and happened to
let the flavor of any hops that you added shine
through a little bit more clearly related to malt. In
(19:30):
another region of what's now the Czech Republic called Moravia,
this particular cultivar of barley was being developed sometime around
all this time. This barley, called hanna, had soft, sweet
flavors and was good for malting. So we have all
of these pieces of the puzzle that are just kind
(19:52):
of floating around waiting for someone to look at how
they go together.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
The first Pilsner was released in October eighteen forty two
by a Bavarian brewer named Joseph Grohl. As the legend goes,
he was hired to come up with it after folks
and Pilsen got really riled up about the bitterness of
another brew in eighteen thirty eight, So they overturned the
(20:22):
barrels some thirty six kegsworth.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So what happened here, apparently is that like incoming shipments
of beer from Bavaria were like good, and what they
were brewing there was like not. And so yeah, so
some segment of the public overturned like thirty six kegs
of beer right in front of city.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Hall, in front of city hall, right.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Another version of this tale claims it was the brew
masters themselves who knocked over the barrels after a batch
of beer was spoiled, which was a come issue at
the time. To fix this very important beer problem, the
town hired it architect to build a brewery by the
name of Martin Steltzer and Groll to brew the beer
(21:14):
and said brewery. Steltzer had tourd breweries that were being
built or improved during the Industrial Revolution for this project.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, and he chose the specific location that he wound
up with because A it could be built out underground
to create loggering cellars, and B it had access to
like good fresh water, which I've read described as very
soft water. However, I tried to explain what that means scientifically,
(21:46):
and what I found out is that soft versus hard
water and brewing is really complicated because it has to
do with like types of minerality and also pH level.
And it's honestly a little bit beyond me today. So
this is already quite a bit we're tackling. Yes, another time,
I also, like, I don't have I don't have samples
of that water from that time period to test to
(22:08):
see whether this is accurate or not.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Alas, what are we to do when it comes to
the beer itself. It was a bottom fermented beer and
brewed at lower temperatures with lagger yeast. Allegedly, Grohl learned
about bottom fermentation and brewing from his father's own brewing experiments.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Back in Bavaria.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Right And Yeah, as we've kind of said, right like before, refrigeration.
People would have been using whichever type of yeast they
could get to work in their beer. But right Grohl
took his knowledge of Bavarian laggering and logger yeasts, and
he also toured a bunch of breweries and learned about
(22:54):
malting from British maltsters before he started up here. He
wound up selecting a local Hannah Barley Tu malt and
the satz Hop And Yeah, in the fall of eighteen
forty two, the new Citizens Brewery of Pilsen debuted there
(23:18):
Pilsner and it was an instant hit.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, this type of beer was pretty quickly embraced by
the Czech Republic and Germany not long after. The color
and lightness of the beer was a game changer and
went on to really impact brewing and the types of
beers being made. It also spawned imitators, and many of
them of lesser quality. Pilsners were featured at the eighteen
(23:47):
seventy three Vienna World Fair, introducing the beverage to a
larger international audience. Yes, this style of beer soon experienced
so much gross in the nineteenth century that brewers had
to start purchasing ingredients from international markets.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
And when it comes to the success of the pilsner,
there are a couple of factors.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Just a couple.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yeah, so okay. You know, first of all, you've got
the beer itself and this water, these hops, the pale malt,
the lagger, yeast, and process all just came together to
make a delicate and attractive beer. No one had ever
seen a pale gold beer before ever. I mean that
(24:38):
just that was a pale gold blogger before ever?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Like this was it? So wow.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Furthermore, glassware became more affordable simultaneously to all of this,
thanks to those innovations in fuel and heating technology, because previously,
like metal or ceramics would have been used to serve
beer in You've got this new style of beer that
is fashionably pale, and you've got the drink wear to
(25:05):
really show it off.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yes, it didn't hurt that at the time, technology around refrigeration, transportation,
and pasteurization were improving. It was around this time that
a lot of beer styles were being standardized and production industrialized.
On top of that, scientists were also learning more about
how fermentation worked. Some breweries set up labs to study
(25:31):
the process and how it related to Beer. This information
was published and circulated.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, Carlsberg Labs, we definitely need to do
an episode on at some point. And yeah, it's just
it's all really fascinating to me, Like the know how
an ingredients of the time and place all came together
to make this really good beer, and the momentum of
the era just made it like wildly and broadly popular,
(25:58):
just a whole bunch of cascade like right place, right times.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Absolutely, the original brewery changed the name of their beer
to Pilsner Erkel or from the source original to differentiate themselves.
They got the trademark for it in eighteen ninety eight.
As we said, they had a bunch of imitators, so
they were trying to lock that down.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
They updated the name of their brewery to Pilsner or
Akel Brewery too.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, And this came amidst a court case that Citizens
Brewery as they were called at the time, brought against
this other local brewery that was calling a pale logger
a pilsner and Citizens Brewery, you know, wanted ownership of
the term pilsner, but the court basically said, like, nah,
(26:52):
your style has been too successful, like Pilsner's belonged to
everyone now, so they're brand and trademark of Pilsner or
Keel were like basically what protection they could obtain?
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Yeah, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
So Germans arriving in America and the mid eighteen hundreds
to early nineteen hundreds brought this style of beer with them,
though they had to adjust to America's barley and add
corn into the mix sometimes. It took some time, but
pilsner did gain popularity alongside German foods and beer halls
(27:32):
up until prohibition in nineteen twenty. A few big breweries
felt certain prohibition was temporary, though, and they shored up
their profits with products like ice cream, and then once
prohibition was repealed, they were the ones ready to resume
brewing pretty much immediately, and Pilsner was a good go to.
(27:53):
This propelled Pilsner's to becoming even more consistent amongst these
breweries with the help of new technology, and it sort
of became a standardized, reliable beer in the US. That
meant that it didn't get a lot of love necessarily,
like people purchased it, oh yeah, but it was so
common that they didn't really think about it too much.
(28:16):
Like nothing special in their minds, but something they would buy.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, not because you know, oh man, it's
mind blowing, but because, ah man, I just mowed the lawn.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
I want a beer.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah. The World Wars fundamentally changed Central Europe, including the
collapse of the Austro Hungarian Empire and the creation of Czechoslovakia.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah. Uh, and European breweries suffered a similar disruption and
consolidation post war that the US did due to prohibition
and so right, just these like kind of standardized, light flavored,
low alcohol, inexpensive versions of pilsner watered down sometimes literally
(29:07):
at this point to really just mean like a pale logger,
just absolutely proliferated. These versions of pilsner are sometimes termed
international Pilsners or international loggers by the brewing community. But yeah,
the fact that the original Citizens Brewery hadn't been able
(29:30):
to control the term pilsner in the way that like
the term champagne is controlled is basically I mean, it's
one of the reasons why pilsners are the biggest category today.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Well, and going back to the United States, in nineteen
ninety six, Pennsylvania's Victory Brewing debuted their craft pilsner called
Prima Pills, which kick started a movement amongst other breweries.
These new pilsners reminded folks of just how refreshing and
not boring a pilsner could be. This was also when
(30:11):
the craft brewing movement in the US in general was
taking off.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, science note for you. In twenty nineteen, a study
out of the Netherlands found that all lagger yeasts traced
to a single hybridization event about five hundred years ago
between like typical bakers or brewers yeast sachromics saravca, and
(30:36):
a strain of wild yeast wild cold fermenting yeast. Today
there are two groups of lagger yeasts, and at the
time of the study they weren't sure whether those had
evolved independently. But yeah, it looks like they all root
from the same genetic source. I also read a hypothesis
about like this specific brewery in which this occurred, but
(31:02):
I'll have to look into that more for another day.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
And then.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah. In twenty twenty three, SATs hops in the area
where they're from were inscribed in the UNESCO World Heritage List.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
It's such a history and it's still being written yes,
Oh my gosh, I'm such a nerd about stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
It's so cool.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, it's it's always so wild when you know, like
like these things were happening relatively recently. You know, this
wasn't like ancient times, this wasn't thousands of years ago.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
It's still like a lot of.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
It is kind of like, I don't know, nobody wrote
it down, so we're not sure. They didn't know what
microbes were at that point, so they couldn't test for them.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah. Yeah, really fun.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, obviously a huge category, and I suspect research will continue.
Oh yeah, we shall learn more.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yes, yes, Oh but if any of y'all have have
a favorite pilsner, a least favorite pilsner, a pilsner memory,
we would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yes, absolutely, But I think that's what we have to
say about pillsners for now.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
It is.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And we're back.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
And we're back with a listener yes, refreshing.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah right, okay, okay, so our first message has a
couple of pictures. I'm gonna read it and then we'll
describe the pictures.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Think that's the best way to go about this, Victoria wrote,
I wanted to write and share my experience of making
slow gin. I live in the UK, and I'm very
fortunate to live somewhere that has a lot of sloes,
and the hedge grows growing wild, so we get a
glut of them every autumn. One year, I decided to
(33:30):
take advantage of this. We don't have a family recipe
for slow gin. I used one I found on the internet.
It required gin, of course, sloes, and lots and lots
of golden castor sugar. I harvested the sloes while on
a walk with my dog, tacks attached and froze them,
(33:50):
which I'm told is a good way to simulate a
harsh frost, and split the skins so you get more
flavor from them. I added them to the jars with
the sugar and and turned them once a day for
a week. I recently won two bottles of gin in
a raffle, one regular London dry and one pink, so
I decided to try a batch with each. Below is
(34:12):
a picture of how they looked when I first mixed
them up, like frogspawn. My family commented, then, after a
week of turning every day, look at that color already.
And finally, after three months of sitting in the dark
in the garage, filtered and put into bottles, it tastes delicious.
(34:35):
I love having a small glass every so often. I'd
never mix it. The one made with pink gin is
quite a bit sweeter and has more berry notes, but
both are good. I have never tried a commercially made slowjin,
so I have no comparison. But since the only thing
this cost me was sugar and thyme, I'll take that
(34:57):
over a shop bottle any day. So this has become
something I do every year. I'm quite tempted to try
brewing with a mix of sloes and damsons as they
grow near each other. I have fortunately never been stabbed
by the thorny black thorn. I am very careful. The
(35:18):
thorns are widely spaced and the fruits come off easily
when ripe, so it's easy to avoid them. I also
tried my hand at kimbucha, but this was not such
a tasty experience.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Hmm. Okay, goodness, goodness, and okay, so so the photos.
So yeah, first photo, the frog spawn. That's what it
looks like. Yes, this looks like something the grogu would
try to eat. That's that's what's.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Going on here.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's just two ball jars filled with like, yeah, like
little black plum buddies and kind of murky water.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
And that's yep.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
After only a week, it's this like margeous ruby violet color.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
It's beautiful the light hitting it, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, and then finished in the bottles, it's like a
really bright wine color, like like if you've ever had
like just a really.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Light colored wine. Yeah, like a like a pomegranate seed.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah. And I love that this experiment worked out for
you and you can. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I'm also really curious how you won these two bottles
of gin and fascinated by that part of the story.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
But yeah, yeah, for anyone unfamiliar, damsons are another type
of plum, so yeah, yeah, uh one I don't have
experience with. But also, uh, a dog dog tex h
photo photo of dog is attached. Dog is uh some
(36:59):
kind of like German shepherd forward mix, really really regal
and handsome with a really good, like like neck rough
fluf yeah, yes, and very alert years many toys in
a pile like a like a little dragon hoarde.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
On a beautiful green field.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah yeah. And and just a lot of lot of
tongue hanging out. Just a really good, really good mid
pant photography there. Yeah, excellent tax we accept.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Yes, thank you. Oh oh that sounds so good.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I've got a crop of a crop of wild blackberries
coming in around my house right now, and I'm I'm like,
maybe I should slow gin them, you know, like maybe
I should. Yeah, just step amos in gem Jen and
see what happens.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yes, I love blackberries. I love Jen.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
We're slowly trying to get our dungeons and Dragon's crew
back together.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, oh man.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Maybe this is something that should try.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
All right for me.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Duly noted got you, got you all right? In the meanwhile,
Tom wrote, I just listened to your school lunch show
and felt compelled to write in. I grew up in
the nineteen seventies and eighties, attending first a private Catholic
school and then a small public high school in western Pennsylvania.
I've since spent my adult life working for private and
(38:28):
public schools and summer camps, so I've witnessed the morphing
and changing of the system over the years. During my
elementary years in Catholic schools, I remember a mom and
pop system of cafeteria food, often staffed by a group
of parents who rotated the duty. The food often left
much to be desired, especially for my ten year old self.
(38:49):
My most vivid memories are of peanut butter cups, which
were just that, a small paper cup filled with what
I have to believe was US government surplus peanut butter,
and a Hogy style sandwich consisting of an unidentifiable meat
mixture smothered in barbecue sauce and served hot, each sandwich
wrapped in aluminum foil. Truly mystery meat. My junior, high
(39:12):
and high school food memories.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Are more varied.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
The food in the cafeteria was passable, if limited. The
district had a dietician who planned the menus and a
dedicated staff that prepared and served the food. It was
a steady rotation of meat, starch, and veg meals prepared
on site and usually from scratch. They even occasionally had
freshly baked things like bread, pastries or rolls. Our school
(39:35):
was situated in the center of the older area of
the city and surrounded mostly by homes, but there were
a few places to buy food, namely Greco's, a small
grocery store, and new Zaki's pizza shop. We had an
unlimited open campus policy during lunch, so many students left
at the beginning of lunch to buy either a sandwich
(39:56):
and chips at the grocery store or slices of pizza
at the pizza shop. The pizza was unique at the time.
Today we would probably call it Detroit style. To us,
it was just the local pie, and we loved it.
At either place, you could buy lunch for about the
same price as the cafeteria, about a dollar fifty to
two dollars. They were popular options and both were usually
(40:16):
swamped with business during lunch. You could bring your food
back to the cafeteria if you purchased it off site,
so the space was crowded and loud, though many of
us just ate outside during nicer weather. I could probably
write a lot more about the changes I've seen over
my career in schools and camps, but I think this
email is probably long enough already. Thanks for the wonderful
show I've listened since almost the start and always look
(40:38):
forward to new shows appearing in my feed. Oh thank you, yes,
Oh my goodness, Oh this is so cool. Also, thank
you so much for putting in a pronouncer. Yeah for
new Zaki's. I hope I didn't butcher it despite your pronouncer.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Always appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yes, not not not a necessity, but yeah, uh but
yeah this I I'm really entertained by the peanut butter cup.
I feel like Annie would have been so happy as
a child to have received this or today, like I
could show up at her house and hand her this
and she'd be like thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yes, But given the context of what a lot of
people think a peanut butter cup is with Rees's, I
think I can see a disconnected joy in the level
of joy.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, I mean, I mean also like did it come
with like pretzel sticks or like carrot sticks or something
like apple slices?
Speaker 4 (41:44):
I don't know, you know, like what was going on there?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
And yeah, oh the love that your that your public
schools had for all of it was that's great. I
feel like, man, like we really lost some freedom as
kids going into like the nineties and later. I'm really
jealous of y'all getting to just like tromp off through
(42:11):
the city. Oh yeah, and get some pizza. That sounds
so nice.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Like I said, we were not allowed to leave, nor
were we allowed to have something delivered to us, Like
my mom brought something to me once and they wouldn't
let her.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Oh wow, give it same dang.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
So I'm really glad you sent this in. I hope
a lot more listeners write in about yeah lunches.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, I mean it seems like, really I don't know
what's the word, like pedestrian memories, but they're so different
from probably what like any other given person had happened,
So I don't know.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
It's fascinating, yes, and I do.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Love I'm interested by this the mystery meat, because that's
kind of a known thing with school lunches.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Is the joke being, Yeah, well kind of meat?
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Is this?
Speaker 4 (43:05):
It's mystery meat?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yes, so yeah, listeners, please help us complete this picture less.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Yeah, let us have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Oh sure, yeah, and follow follow up to that school
lunch episode forthcoming.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
At some point I'll write it. I'll write it into my.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Spreadsheet to make sure that I have it on the
vague decades long schedule.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yes, trust us, listeners, there's a schedule.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
It's just oh, there's a there's a system of a schedule. Yeah, exactly,
that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Well, thank you to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can.
Our email is hello at favor pod dot com.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
We're also hypothetically on social media. We are on Instagram
and blue Sky at savre pod, and we do hope
to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor Predicture of iHeartRadio. I'm any
Race and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode for
you about Pilsner beer.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Indeed, we do.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Drink responsibly always always, uh huh always.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Was there a particular reason this was on your mind?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Lauren?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, we are starting to get into some warmer weather
here in Atlanta, Georgia, and h Pilsner is a nice
warm weather beer. And also it has been on our
list for years and we have been staring at it askance,
(00:50):
with fear and respect, and uh yeah, I just went sure, heckett.
I think that we've covered enough other bases that we
can approach Pilsner.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Pilsner is the specter that has hung over every beer
episode we've ever done.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
That's accurate, Yes, that is yep.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
We have probably mentioned it in every single other beer
episode we've talked about because it's intense popularity. The word
I read more than once today was decimated other beer
styles true, but wo yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It's honestly not my favorite style of beer, although a
really like you know, like in terms of like like
like sure, grab a pack of Miller Light. That's not
my favorite type of beer to drink. I would generally
rather just not have a beer at that juncture, and
like I could have a water and have a better time.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
To be honest, but.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
A really good one kind of like traditionally made with
a lot of care, is a lovely thing, and I
think I didn't discover that until I've mentioned this spot
in Atlanta before Halfway Crooks opened over in Summer Hill
a number of years back, making really nice traditional german
(02:29):
Ish style of beers.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, I think if you find a good one, Chris refreshing, lovely.
Oh yeah, oh yes, I had a couple of good
ones when I was in Europe. When I was like
the first time I went to Europe, I was lucky
enough to have somebody I was traveling with who was
like a beer Kndosse Oh cool, and.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
He guided me as to what I should try.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Oh that's a really critical to be honest, Yes, especially
because I was younger, and when you're younger you do
kind of I don't know if make mistakes, but maybe
like go for the cheaper option.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You don't know, you.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Don't know what you're doing, You're you're you're acting at random.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, yes, exactly, so shout out to him. To this day,
I still drink some of the things he recommended me.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Oh yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Well, as we said, you could pretty much listen to
every beer episode we've done.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And this is.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Related at least a little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yep, yep, exactly exactly. But I guess that brings us
to our question.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I think it does.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Pillsners. What are they?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, Pilsners are a category of logger beer with clean,
crisp like wheat cracker flavors, with a balanced bitterness and
a little bit of herbal or floral spice and a
lovely pale gold color, perfectly translucent with fine bubbles and
fluffy white foam or head. Brewers achieve this by using good,
(04:18):
simple ingredients, often just one malt and one hop, and
finessing the heck out of the production process. There are
different regional varieties that aim for slightly different iterations on
the concept, but pilsners are really a love letter to
the refined science and control of the brewing process. They're
(04:39):
consumed on their own or are nice paired with lots
of different snacks and meals. They can let fresh light
flavors shine or cut through fattier, heavier flavors. They've gotten
a bit of a wrap as like a basic beer.
And certainly they are easy sipping because they're so crisp
and hover right around like five percent alcohol by volume,
(05:00):
but they can have lots of delicate nuance to appreciate.
Pilsner's are very modern in the way that like gas
lights are modern. Okay, like they're technically old fashioned at
this point, but were once just a technological superlative in
their category and just so beautifully clear and golden with light.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, they changed the whole industry.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
A culmination of everything that was going on in brewing
in Europe in the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Uh. You might sometimes see a Pilsner style beer labeled
a pills or a pill Center pill Center. Sure, I
don't know, and these are not just nicknames. They're actually
a nod of respect. The style originated in Pillsen in
what's now the Czech Republic, and Pilsner in fact means
from pills In. So tradition has only Pilsner style beers
(06:04):
made in pills In be labeled Pilsner, but not everyone
holds to that anyway. Okay, h beer one oh one
beer is an alcoholic beverage made from malted grain, water, yeast,
and usually hops. You boil the malt in water to
release its sugars, then add yeast, which eats those sugars
(06:26):
and poops carbon dioxide, alcohol and flavor yeast poop. And
during the process you can add other stuff to flavor beer,
like hops, which also kind of stabilizes it and balances
the sweet, rich flavors from the malt and the yeast.
There are a lot of ways to tweak this system
(06:48):
to get all kinds of different results. So let's unpack
all of this a little bit and see what's going
on with Pilsner's in particular. Okay, the malt malted just
means germinated and dried. So you take a grain and
create an environment in which it will start to germinate.
Grains or seeds, they contain proteins that code for growing
(07:10):
a plant, plus starches to feed that hypothetical growth, all
wrapped up in a sturdy and portable package. So, given
moisture and a pleasant temperature, a seed of grain will
start to grow a plant. And one of the very
first steps is breaking down those starches into sugars for
(07:30):
easy processing. So when you molt grains, you're using that
natural process to do some of your work for you,
creating those sugars that you want your yeasts to eat
so that they will create alcohol and stuff. Because you
don't want a whole plant, though, you stop the germination
process by drying out the grains in what's called kilning.
(07:53):
And kilning is this whole complex science slash art, but
very basically, in the case of Pilsner's, if you can
dry the grains out hot and quick, they'll remain pale
and clean tasting. They won't like turn dark colors and
take on any kind of toasty, roasty flavors, just nice
(08:13):
and clean. You can use all kinds of grains to
make malts, but the traditional one for Pilsners is barley,
and look a nice sweet barley at that. More on
that in the history section. Hops Hops are the flower
of a climbing plant that adds flavors, especially bitter, herbal, floral,
and kind of spice flavors to your beer super bonus.
(08:35):
They also inhibit the growth of unwanted microorganisms and especially bacteria.
They furthermore help stabilize beer's foam love that the traditional
one in pilsners is the sots hop. I think I'm
saying that correctly. It has these lovely woody floral aromatics
and and a relatively low bitterness on the palate.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeast.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Okay, I said the east is a lagger, and that
refers to the type of yeast that's used to brew it.
Laggers are made with yeasts that thrive at relatively cool temperatures,
about like forty to fifty degrees fahrenheit, which is about
five to ten celsius. These are sometimes called bottom fermenting
yeasts because they easily sink to the bottom of a
fermenting vessel, and traditionally we're collected from the bottom when
(09:23):
making the next batch of beer. In contrast, the yeasts
that make ales thrive at warmer temperatures like a whole
twenty degrees fahrenheit or fifteen degrees celsius warmer, and they
are top fermenting, meaning that they kick up more foam
at the top of the vessel and are collected from
the top when they're done. Anyway, those lower temperatures of
(09:44):
laggers mean that the fermentation process happens more slowly and
in the case of Pilsner's, you probably take like two
to three weeks to complete fermentation. The resulting beers, furthermore,
will really benefit from being aged a bit in cold condition.
This process is known as laggering, and for Pilsners it
(10:04):
can take another four to six weeks or more at
like near freezing temperatures. More specifically, the yeasts used for
laggers are varieties of a species called Sakramic's. Pastorianis in
honor of Louis Pastor's contributions to brewing, including his early
recognition the top dwelling and bottom dwelling yeasts were like
(10:25):
inherently distinct. For Pilsners, you're looking for a lagger yeast
with a high level of conversion of sugars to alcohol,
which is called attenuation. But uh yeah, a beer is
more than its ingredients. Exactly how you treat them matters,
As any brewer can and will tell you, there is
(10:50):
a lot of information out there about brewing Pilsners that's
a little bit beyond the scope of our episode today.
You know, like exactly how you cook the malt, the
exact strain of the yeast, the times and the temperatures
for everything, The thing that I read over and over
is that this is a beer that you have to
be patient and careful with because the ingredients are so
(11:12):
like simple and delicate that your mistakes will show. Oh yeah, yeah,
Like I said, there are a few different styles of
pilsner within the greater category. Check styles may have like richer,
multier flavors and might include like a tiny hint of
butter in there, not actual butter butter flavor, thank you.
(11:37):
German styles tend to be lighter and drier in flavor
and a little paler in color. Italian styles are more happy,
often being dry hopped during brewing. There are subcategories of
German styles, because of course there are the ones clower
to Chechia are more chechy.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
American styles are traditionally close to German styles, except when
they're blander or when they use IPSS for something completely different.
New Zealand style does whatever it wants. I think it
can use ale yeasts. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I'm once again overwhelmed and we've already completed this outline.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Uh yeah, I really want to explore more of this now.
But okay, a final note in the what is it
category is that these are beers that are meant to
be consumed fresh, Like if you're buying pilsner's imported, attempt
to check.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Their expiry date.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
This can come in the form of brood on dates
or best buy dates or codes that you'd have to
look up, which, to be honest, I just wouldn't. I
would just be like, well whatever, sure, but anyway, if
you can, you want something under six months old, like
you are not looking for the dustiest bottle in the
cellar in this case.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
No, no, no, no no, all right, well what about
the nutrition drink responsibly? Yeah, yeah, we do have some
numbers for you.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
We do.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Apparently pilsners are by far the most popular style of
beer worldwide, Like, well over half of all beers sold
our pilsner style. What like, the market is worth some
ninety three point six billion dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
WHOA so still hanging in there?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, although what you what you call
a pilsner is a little contentious sometimes, but but I
guess speaking of In twenty fifteen, the classic and indeed
original Czech beer pilsner or kel past two million.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Hecta leaders sold in a year h uh huh uh huh.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yep, yep, it is fascinating to think of its Like
you said, how it was such a technological innovation when
it came out and now it feels kind of so
historical to us, and yet.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It clearly has this staying powers.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, And there are a lot of
historical reasons for that, which we will get into as
soon as we get back from a quick break.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
For a word from our sponsors, and we're back, Thank
you sponsor.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
So.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
As mentioned in our previous beer episodes, beer is old,
like before humans invented the wheel, old.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Or maybe right around then. Alcohol is certainly older than
the wheel.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yes, his stories believe that beer originated in ancient Mesopotamia.
Over time, different beer styles developed based on regional techniques
and ingredients. A lot of these early beers weren't consistent
in flavor because it was kind of up to the
ferment and other conditions like higher temperature required to get
(15:35):
the fermentation process rolling.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So you were sort of at the mercy of whatever
your environment was doing.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yep. Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
When it comes to hops, wild and cultivated varieties existed
in Central Europe, which is mainly what we're talking about
when we're talking about Pilsner by the Middle Ages. Historical
text and archaeological finds suggests that hops were being used
for beer brewing in Central Europe by the ninth century CE.
It took until the thirteenth century before they became a
(16:08):
common ingredient, though, as people started to appreciate the preservative
properties of hops along with its flavor and aroma. Pilsen,
the home of the Pilsner, located in what is now
modern day Czech Republic, was founded in twelve ninety five
CE by King Winsol Sloss second, Did.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I get it right for it? Yes? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It soon grew because it was long at least two
trade routes. The first known written mention of a brewery
in Pilsen appeared in thirteen oh seven.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
And this area was historically known as Bohemia. It's fallen
under a bunch of different rules over the centuries, but
that is the subject for a whole different podcast.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yes, indeed, it is.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Hops cultivation and what is now the Czech Republic expanded
in the fourteenth century with a growing demand for beer.
The thoughts hop, the type of hop primarily used in
the first Pilsners was being commercially cultivated by the mid
thirteen hundreds. The name comes from the German name for
a town outside of Prague that was a center of
(17:18):
cultivation for these hops.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Also around the thirteen hundreds, brewers a bit to the
west in what's now Germany then Bavaria, started the practice
of aging fresh beer in cold cellars. And this was
the beginning of laggering.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, and this brings us to something else that comes
up in a lot of our beer episodes, German purity laws.
So German purity laws adopted in several other European countries
in fifteen sixteen dictated that beer can only have three
ingredients water, hops and barley.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Later yeast was added to the list.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, and this was also in Bavaria. Later in fifteen
fifty three, and adendum dictated when beer could be brewed,
and it cut out summertime brewing entirely like May through September,
which meant that for a while there, colder fermenting yeasts
would have started to have an edge. It's thought that
(18:20):
the logger yeasts that we know today evolved over the
next century and like really caught on with brewers in
the area. At this point in history, most beers would
have been dark in color due to the types of
fuels that were available for toasting or roasting malts. Starting
around the early seventeen hundreds, though, British maltsters started working
(18:44):
with a new fuel called coke. Folks working with coal
had derived it back in the sixteen hundreds, and it
burned just hotter and cleaner than anything anyone had ever
used before. It drove industrial development from iron to steel
to glass, and also made its way into brewing. Malts
with coke could be finished without so much smoke. It
(19:06):
was paler and tasted cleaner than malts roasted with wood
or whatever. The resulting very pale malts and British pale
ales were more expensive, but very posh and happened to
let the flavor of any hops that you added shine
through a little bit more clearly related to malt. In
(19:30):
another region of what's now the Czech Republic called Moravia,
this particular cultivar of barley was being developed sometime around
all this time. This barley, called hanna, had soft, sweet
flavors and was good for malting. So we have all
of these pieces of the puzzle that are just kind
(19:52):
of floating around waiting for someone to look at how
they go together.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
The first Pilsner was released in October eighteen forty two
by a Bavarian brewer named Joseph Grohl. As the legend goes,
he was hired to come up with it after folks
and Pilsen got really riled up about the bitterness of
another brew in eighteen thirty eight, So they overturned the
(20:22):
barrels some thirty six kegsworth.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So what happened here, apparently is that like incoming shipments
of beer from Bavaria were like good, and what they
were brewing there was like not. And so yeah, so
some segment of the public overturned like thirty six kegs
of beer right in front of city.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Hall, in front of city hall, right.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Another version of this tale claims it was the brew
masters themselves who knocked over the barrels after a batch
of beer was spoiled, which was a come issue at
the time. To fix this very important beer problem, the
town hired it architect to build a brewery by the
name of Martin Steltzer and Groll to brew the beer
(21:14):
and said brewery. Steltzer had tourd breweries that were being
built or improved during the Industrial Revolution for this project.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, and he chose the specific location that he wound
up with because A it could be built out underground
to create loggering cellars, and B it had access to
like good fresh water, which I've read described as very
soft water. However, I tried to explain what that means scientifically,
(21:46):
and what I found out is that soft versus hard
water and brewing is really complicated because it has to
do with like types of minerality and also pH level.
And it's honestly a little bit beyond me today. So
this is already quite a bit we're tackling. Yes, another time,
I also, like, I don't have I don't have samples
of that water from that time period to test to
(22:08):
see whether this is accurate or not.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Alas, what are we to do when it comes to
the beer itself. It was a bottom fermented beer and
brewed at lower temperatures with lagger yeast. Allegedly, Grohl learned
about bottom fermentation and brewing from his father's own brewing experiments.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Back in Bavaria.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Right And Yeah, as we've kind of said, right like before, refrigeration.
People would have been using whichever type of yeast they
could get to work in their beer. But right Grohl
took his knowledge of Bavarian laggering and logger yeasts, and
he also toured a bunch of breweries and learned about
(22:54):
malting from British maltsters before he started up here. He
wound up selecting a local Hannah Barley Tu malt and
the satz Hop And Yeah, in the fall of eighteen
forty two, the new Citizens Brewery of Pilsen debuted there
(23:18):
Pilsner and it was an instant hit.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, this type of beer was pretty quickly embraced by
the Czech Republic and Germany not long after. The color
and lightness of the beer was a game changer and
went on to really impact brewing and the types of
beers being made. It also spawned imitators, and many of
them of lesser quality. Pilsners were featured at the eighteen
(23:47):
seventy three Vienna World Fair, introducing the beverage to a
larger international audience. Yes, this style of beer soon experienced
so much gross in the nineteenth century that brewers had
to start purchasing ingredients from international markets.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
And when it comes to the success of the pilsner,
there are a couple of factors.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Just a couple.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yeah, so okay. You know, first of all, you've got
the beer itself and this water, these hops, the pale malt,
the lagger, yeast, and process all just came together to
make a delicate and attractive beer. No one had ever
seen a pale gold beer before ever. I mean that
(24:38):
just that was a pale gold blogger before ever?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Like this was it? So wow.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Furthermore, glassware became more affordable simultaneously to all of this,
thanks to those innovations in fuel and heating technology, because previously,
like metal or ceramics would have been used to serve
beer in You've got this new style of beer that
is fashionably pale, and you've got the drink wear to
(25:05):
really show it off.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yes, it didn't hurt that at the time, technology around refrigeration, transportation,
and pasteurization were improving. It was around this time that
a lot of beer styles were being standardized and production industrialized.
On top of that, scientists were also learning more about
how fermentation worked. Some breweries set up labs to study
(25:31):
the process and how it related to Beer. This information
was published and circulated.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, Carlsberg Labs, we definitely need to do
an episode on at some point. And yeah, it's just
it's all really fascinating to me, Like the know how
an ingredients of the time and place all came together
to make this really good beer, and the momentum of
the era just made it like wildly and broadly popular,
(25:58):
just a whole bunch of cascade like right place, right times.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Absolutely, the original brewery changed the name of their beer
to Pilsner Erkel or from the source original to differentiate themselves.
They got the trademark for it in eighteen ninety eight.
As we said, they had a bunch of imitators, so
they were trying to lock that down.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
They updated the name of their brewery to Pilsner or
Akel Brewery too.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, And this came amidst a court case that Citizens
Brewery as they were called at the time, brought against
this other local brewery that was calling a pale logger
a pilsner and Citizens Brewery, you know, wanted ownership of
the term pilsner, but the court basically said, like, nah,
(26:52):
your style has been too successful, like Pilsner's belonged to
everyone now, so they're brand and trademark of Pilsner or
Keel were like basically what protection they could obtain?
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Yeah, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
So Germans arriving in America and the mid eighteen hundreds
to early nineteen hundreds brought this style of beer with them,
though they had to adjust to America's barley and add
corn into the mix sometimes. It took some time, but
pilsner did gain popularity alongside German foods and beer halls
(27:32):
up until prohibition in nineteen twenty. A few big breweries
felt certain prohibition was temporary, though, and they shored up
their profits with products like ice cream, and then once
prohibition was repealed, they were the ones ready to resume
brewing pretty much immediately, and Pilsner was a good go to.
(27:53):
This propelled Pilsner's to becoming even more consistent amongst these
breweries with the help of new technology, and it sort
of became a standardized, reliable beer in the US. That
meant that it didn't get a lot of love necessarily,
like people purchased it, oh yeah, but it was so
common that they didn't really think about it too much.
(28:16):
Like nothing special in their minds, but something they would buy.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, not because you know, oh man, it's
mind blowing, but because, ah man, I just mowed the lawn.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
I want a beer.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah. The World Wars fundamentally changed Central Europe, including the
collapse of the Austro Hungarian Empire and the creation of Czechoslovakia.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah. Uh, and European breweries suffered a similar disruption and
consolidation post war that the US did due to prohibition
and so right, just these like kind of standardized, light flavored,
low alcohol, inexpensive versions of pilsner watered down sometimes literally
(29:07):
at this point to really just mean like a pale logger,
just absolutely proliferated. These versions of pilsner are sometimes termed
international Pilsners or international loggers by the brewing community. But yeah,
the fact that the original Citizens Brewery hadn't been able
(29:30):
to control the term pilsner in the way that like
the term champagne is controlled is basically I mean, it's
one of the reasons why pilsners are the biggest category today.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Well, and going back to the United States, in nineteen
ninety six, Pennsylvania's Victory Brewing debuted their craft pilsner called
Prima Pills, which kick started a movement amongst other breweries.
These new pilsners reminded folks of just how refreshing and
not boring a pilsner could be. This was also when
(30:11):
the craft brewing movement in the US in general was
taking off.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, science note for you. In twenty nineteen, a study
out of the Netherlands found that all lagger yeasts traced
to a single hybridization event about five hundred years ago
between like typical bakers or brewers yeast sachromics saravca, and
(30:36):
a strain of wild yeast wild cold fermenting yeast. Today
there are two groups of lagger yeasts, and at the
time of the study they weren't sure whether those had
evolved independently. But yeah, it looks like they all root
from the same genetic source. I also read a hypothesis
about like this specific brewery in which this occurred, but
(31:02):
I'll have to look into that more for another day.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
And then.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah. In twenty twenty three, SATs hops in the area
where they're from were inscribed in the UNESCO World Heritage List.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
It's such a history and it's still being written yes,
Oh my gosh, I'm such a nerd about stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
It's so cool.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, it's it's always so wild when you know, like
like these things were happening relatively recently. You know, this
wasn't like ancient times, this wasn't thousands of years ago.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
It's still like a lot of.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
It is kind of like, I don't know, nobody wrote
it down, so we're not sure. They didn't know what
microbes were at that point, so they couldn't test for them.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah. Yeah, really fun.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, obviously a huge category, and I suspect research will continue.
Oh yeah, we shall learn more.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yes, yes, Oh but if any of y'all have have
a favorite pilsner, a least favorite pilsner, a pilsner memory,
we would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yes, absolutely, But I think that's what we have to
say about pillsners for now.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
It is.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And we're back.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
And we're back with a listener yes, refreshing.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah right, okay, okay, so our first message has a
couple of pictures. I'm gonna read it and then we'll
describe the pictures.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Think that's the best way to go about this, Victoria wrote,
I wanted to write and share my experience of making
slow gin. I live in the UK, and I'm very
fortunate to live somewhere that has a lot of sloes,
and the hedge grows growing wild, so we get a
glut of them every autumn. One year, I decided to
(33:30):
take advantage of this. We don't have a family recipe
for slow gin. I used one I found on the internet.
It required gin, of course, sloes, and lots and lots
of golden castor sugar. I harvested the sloes while on
a walk with my dog, tacks attached and froze them,
(33:50):
which I'm told is a good way to simulate a
harsh frost, and split the skins so you get more
flavor from them. I added them to the jars with
the sugar and and turned them once a day for
a week. I recently won two bottles of gin in
a raffle, one regular London dry and one pink, so
I decided to try a batch with each. Below is
(34:12):
a picture of how they looked when I first mixed
them up, like frogspawn. My family commented, then, after a
week of turning every day, look at that color already.
And finally, after three months of sitting in the dark
in the garage, filtered and put into bottles, it tastes delicious.
(34:35):
I love having a small glass every so often. I'd
never mix it. The one made with pink gin is
quite a bit sweeter and has more berry notes, but
both are good. I have never tried a commercially made slowjin,
so I have no comparison. But since the only thing
this cost me was sugar and thyme, I'll take that
(34:57):
over a shop bottle any day. So this has become
something I do every year. I'm quite tempted to try
brewing with a mix of sloes and damsons as they
grow near each other. I have fortunately never been stabbed
by the thorny black thorn. I am very careful. The
(35:18):
thorns are widely spaced and the fruits come off easily
when ripe, so it's easy to avoid them. I also
tried my hand at kimbucha, but this was not such
a tasty experience.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Hmm. Okay, goodness, goodness, and okay, so so the photos.
So yeah, first photo, the frog spawn. That's what it
looks like. Yes, this looks like something the grogu would
try to eat. That's that's what's.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Going on here.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's just two ball jars filled with like, yeah, like
little black plum buddies and kind of murky water.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
And that's yep.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
After only a week, it's this like margeous ruby violet color.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
It's beautiful the light hitting it, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, and then finished in the bottles, it's like a
really bright wine color, like like if you've ever had
like just a really.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Light colored wine. Yeah, like a like a pomegranate seed.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah. And I love that this experiment worked out for
you and you can. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I'm also really curious how you won these two bottles
of gin and fascinated by that part of the story.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
But yeah, yeah, for anyone unfamiliar, damsons are another type
of plum, so yeah, yeah, uh one I don't have
experience with. But also, uh, a dog dog tex h
photo photo of dog is attached. Dog is uh some
(36:59):
kind of like German shepherd forward mix, really really regal
and handsome with a really good, like like neck rough
fluf yeah, yes, and very alert years many toys in
a pile like a like a little dragon hoarde.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
On a beautiful green field.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah yeah. And and just a lot of lot of
tongue hanging out. Just a really good, really good mid
pant photography there. Yeah, excellent tax we accept.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Yes, thank you. Oh oh that sounds so good.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I've got a crop of a crop of wild blackberries
coming in around my house right now, and I'm I'm like,
maybe I should slow gin them, you know, like maybe
I should. Yeah, just step amos in gem Jen and
see what happens.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yes, I love blackberries. I love Jen.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
We're slowly trying to get our dungeons and Dragon's crew
back together.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, oh man.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Maybe this is something that should try.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
All right for me.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Duly noted got you, got you all right? In the meanwhile,
Tom wrote, I just listened to your school lunch show
and felt compelled to write in. I grew up in
the nineteen seventies and eighties, attending first a private Catholic
school and then a small public high school in western Pennsylvania.
I've since spent my adult life working for private and
(38:28):
public schools and summer camps, so I've witnessed the morphing
and changing of the system over the years. During my
elementary years in Catholic schools, I remember a mom and
pop system of cafeteria food, often staffed by a group
of parents who rotated the duty. The food often left
much to be desired, especially for my ten year old self.
(38:49):
My most vivid memories are of peanut butter cups, which
were just that, a small paper cup filled with what
I have to believe was US government surplus peanut butter,
and a Hogy style sandwich consisting of an unidentifiable meat
mixture smothered in barbecue sauce and served hot, each sandwich
wrapped in aluminum foil. Truly mystery meat. My junior, high
(39:12):
and high school food memories.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Are more varied.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
The food in the cafeteria was passable, if limited. The
district had a dietician who planned the menus and a
dedicated staff that prepared and served the food. It was
a steady rotation of meat, starch, and veg meals prepared
on site and usually from scratch. They even occasionally had
freshly baked things like bread, pastries or rolls. Our school
(39:35):
was situated in the center of the older area of
the city and surrounded mostly by homes, but there were
a few places to buy food, namely Greco's, a small
grocery store, and new Zaki's pizza shop. We had an
unlimited open campus policy during lunch, so many students left
at the beginning of lunch to buy either a sandwich
(39:56):
and chips at the grocery store or slices of pizza
at the pizza shop. The pizza was unique at the time.
Today we would probably call it Detroit style. To us,
it was just the local pie, and we loved it.
At either place, you could buy lunch for about the
same price as the cafeteria, about a dollar fifty to
two dollars. They were popular options and both were usually
(40:16):
swamped with business during lunch. You could bring your food
back to the cafeteria if you purchased it off site,
so the space was crowded and loud, though many of
us just ate outside during nicer weather. I could probably
write a lot more about the changes I've seen over
my career in schools and camps, but I think this
email is probably long enough already. Thanks for the wonderful
show I've listened since almost the start and always look
(40:38):
forward to new shows appearing in my feed. Oh thank you, yes,
Oh my goodness, Oh this is so cool. Also, thank
you so much for putting in a pronouncer. Yeah for
new Zaki's. I hope I didn't butcher it despite your pronouncer.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Always appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yes, not not not a necessity, but yeah, uh but
yeah this I I'm really entertained by the peanut butter cup.
I feel like Annie would have been so happy as
a child to have received this or today, like I
could show up at her house and hand her this
and she'd be like thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yes, But given the context of what a lot of
people think a peanut butter cup is with Rees's, I
think I can see a disconnected joy in the level
of joy.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, I mean, I mean also like did it come
with like pretzel sticks or like carrot sticks or something
like apple slices?
Speaker 4 (41:44):
I don't know, you know, like what was going on there?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
And yeah, oh the love that your that your public
schools had for all of it was that's great. I
feel like, man, like we really lost some freedom as
kids going into like the nineties and later. I'm really
jealous of y'all getting to just like tromp off through
(42:11):
the city. Oh yeah, and get some pizza. That sounds
so nice.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Like I said, we were not allowed to leave, nor
were we allowed to have something delivered to us, Like
my mom brought something to me once and they wouldn't
let her.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Oh wow, give it same dang.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
So I'm really glad you sent this in. I hope
a lot more listeners write in about yeah lunches.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, I mean it seems like, really I don't know
what's the word, like pedestrian memories, but they're so different
from probably what like any other given person had happened,
So I don't know.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
It's fascinating, yes, and I do.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Love I'm interested by this the mystery meat, because that's
kind of a known thing with school lunches.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Is the joke being, Yeah, well kind of meat?
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Is this?
Speaker 4 (43:05):
It's mystery meat?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yes, so yeah, listeners, please help us complete this picture less.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Yeah, let us have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Oh sure, yeah, and follow follow up to that school
lunch episode forthcoming.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
At some point I'll write it. I'll write it into my.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Spreadsheet to make sure that I have it on the
vague decades long schedule.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yes, trust us, listeners, there's a schedule.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
It's just oh, there's a there's a system of a schedule. Yeah, exactly,
that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Well, thank you to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can.
Our email is hello at favor pod dot com.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
We're also hypothetically on social media. We are on Instagram
and blue Sky at savre pod, and we do hope
to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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