May 28, 2026 • 36 mins
Beverages made from parts of the roselle hibiscus have a beautiful color, a tart tang, and a place in the history of other red drinks. Anney and Lauren dip into the science and cultures behind hibiscus teas.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Projection for iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about hibiscus tea.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Uh, it has been on my list for a very
long time, and I really wanted to talk about it,
especially given that we are kind of entering the summer season.
What a nice time for a nice refreshing drink if
you choose an iced version of a hibiscus tea. And furthermore,
(00:44):
we are rolling up on Juneteenth, and so yeah, I
thought this was a great, great opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yes, yes it is. I don't think I've ever had
hibiscus tea, to be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
No, Oh my goodness, I've definitely had it as an
agua fresca. And also some of my favorite hot teas
do have hibiscus in them.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So yeah, they sound nice. They sound oh really lovely.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So bright and zingy, so red.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Color can be important to food.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And oh absolutely yeah you eat with your eyes first.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yes, well, I suppose this brings us to our question, sure,
hibiscus tea, what is it?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, Hibiscus tea is a beverage made by steeping parts
of the flowers of a specific type of Hibiscus makes
sense in boiling water usually and then often chilling and
sweetening that infusion to produce this like vibrant, deep pink
to parl buish red drink that is tart and fruity
(02:04):
and a little floral. It's often seasoned with similar or
contrasting flavors like ginger, citrus, rose, orange blossom, cinnamon, allspice, vanilla,
or mint. At heavy concentrations, and when it's sweetened, Hibiscus
tea really tastes more like a juice than a tea
(02:25):
or a tisane technically because it doesn't contain the tea plant,
but yeah, Hibiscus tea is sometimes called a juice. You
can mix it with fruit juices, or with soda, water,
or with liquor. The flowers can be used to make
all kinds of other things, preserves, wines, use them as
an ingredient in savory or sweet dishes. But today we're
(02:47):
focusing on the drinks. A lot of different cultures do
have their own virgins and customs. But like, the color
is just so fun and the flavor is so refreshing
that it is often like a small treat or a
celebratory drink for like holidays and gatherings. Hibiscus tea is
(03:10):
like if you could juice a jewel. It's like it's
like drinking gemstones.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, that's a good description based on the pictures I've seen.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yep, yep, and a tip of the hat to see
us Lewis for that one, because somewhere in the Silver
Chair they talk about juicing gemstones, and that's a line
that's really stuck with me.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Anyway, Okay, these flowers go buy a lot of names.
Roselle hibiscus is a common one in Mexican Spanish, it's
a Florida hamiica and the drink is an agua fresca
called agua de hamiica. In Jamaica, it's often called so
not to be confused with other tart tasting plants that
(04:03):
go by the same name, and those are kind of
the ones that are likely that you're likely to run
across in the United States. There are dozens of other
local names for this plant wherever it has grown across,
like Asia and Africa and South America. Whatever you call it, colloquially,
the botanical name for the plant is Hibiscus sabdarifa sebdarifa
(04:25):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It's in the mallow family though, and is thus related
to all kinds of things that we've talked about before,
from like okra to cacao to durian to yes the
plant that was originally in marshmallows before marshmallows were made
of gelatin and stuff. This plant is a woody shrub
or kind of like shrublet with often burgundy stems, and
(04:46):
it grows these long green leaves that are ribbed with red.
The leaves are also edible. I've read that they're like
a spicy spinach. Never tried them. Right in you can
extract strong fibers from the stems that can be used
to weave like rope and rough fabrics, though the varieties
that are used for fiber are different than the ones
used for food. Typically, the ones used for food will
(05:07):
bud and then bloom with this really fleshy calyx, and
the calyx is the support structure that sort of cups
the flour from the bottom of the bloom, made up
of a ring of variably fleshy sepals. Yeah, and the
calyx on this type of hibiscus will usually be a
deep blood red in color and almost a vegetable in texture.
(05:30):
The actual blossoms are a papery like white yellow to
pink with a red center, and then the bloom will
die back and the plant's fruit a seed pod will
develop inside the calyx, which will remain and grow with
it once that fruit is mature but not ripe, at
which point the fruit will dry out and crack open.
(05:52):
Once it's mature, you can harvest the whole head and
then peel and probably discard the fruit unless you're saving
it for seeds, and save the red calyx to use
fresh or freeze or dry. You can also preserve them
by pickling or canning and syrup, but that's not usually
what you're going for in drinks unless you want like
a really awesome garnish for a drink maybe, And that
(06:14):
would be pretty because when they are fresh they are
really stunning, just like a slightly translucent ruby crimson colors,
sort of like alien looking pods, like like a cartoon
flower bud or like a weird puppet.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, there's a lot of great hand gestures happening.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
By the way, listeners, if you sort of make the
gesture you would make to operate a hand puppet, that's
kind of what they look like. Anyway. They will dry
down to a deep burgundy. And there are varieties that
have green calusies, but they're less popular for making drinks
with because they're not as pretty. Drinks made with this
(07:00):
a flower bit are popular around lots of the tropical
to subtropical world where the plants thrive. You know, yeah,
like the color is pretty, the flavor is tart, sort
of like cranberry. It is a wonderful hot weather drink
around the Caribbean. Punches made with hibiscus are also traditionally
enjoyed around Christmas. Teas made with hibiscus can be served
(07:23):
hot as well. If you have ever had one of
the Celestial Seasonings zinger flavors, the zinger in question is hibiscus.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
That's what that is.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Oh okay, yeah, yeah, super good. I feel like Celestial
Seasonings is a weird company. There's a little ping in
my brain going like are they strange? And I'm not
sure off the top of my head. So here we
are not a sponsor. We can say not a sponsor, hey,
but at any rate. Also, also, hibiscus tea is like
(07:58):
a cultural precursor to a bunch of other vibrantly red
colored drinks in Black American cultures. Red drink is a
catch all term for bright red drinks that can feature
any number of ingredients and flavors. You know, maybe hibiscus,
but maybe strawberry, cherry, raspberry, sumac, cranberry, maybe a red
(08:20):
kool aid or big red soda, or a lemonade that's
been taken straight past pink and all the way to
very red. You know. Different regions or neighborhoods or households
may have preferences or traditions, and these are popular, especially
around Juneteenth. I will say that if you're looking to
(08:41):
work with hibiscus for the first time at home, look
up a few recipes. I mean usually probably do that
with any new ingredient. But yeah, it's often suggested to
do like a prolonged simmer instead of like a brief
steep to get the most out of your flowers.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yes, yes, and again, listeners please write.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
In oh my goodness, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yes, Well what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Really depends on how you make your hibiscus tea. Perhaps obviously,
the more sugar you use, the more of a treat
that will probably count as but treats are nice. High
biscus flowers do contain a lot of compounds that are
like potentially useful in our bodies, and these teas and
extracts thereof are being investigated for positive effects, including like
(09:30):
lowering blood pressure. But yeah, savor motto. Bodies are complicated.
Nutrition is complicated. Before ingesting a medicinal dose of anything,
you should check with a healthcare provider. And we're not that.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
No, nope, who were not, No birds. I do appreciate
how that sounds like the very the quick message they
read at the end of medicine ads. Though medicinal ads
in the US the fine say yeah, yeah, yes, yes,
(10:03):
that's sabers version of that.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah yeah, with less vomiting and diarrhea involved, usually hopefully
so hopefully hopefully so.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
We do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
A couple all right. So in Mexico, the state of
Guerrero grows the most of this type of hibiscus, with
some six thousand farmers raising some eleven million pounds of
it every year as of twenty nineteen. Back around the
turn of the twenty first century, the FAO, the Food
(10:37):
and Agriculture Organization of the UN, noted that some fifteen
million metric tons were traded internationally every year, with China
and Thailand producing the most and the US and Germany
importing the most. They also noted in the same report
(10:59):
that Sudan produces the best. Really, yeah, they were like
this one.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I don't know that I've seen that before.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
All right, I'm like, all right.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Okay, oh my goodness. All right, well, we do have
quite a history for you.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
We do, and we are going to get into that.
But first we are going to get into a quick
break for a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, okay. So, Hibiscus originated
in West Africa, where it was also domesticated. Another species
may have originated in Asia. There are some differing theories
about whether the Asian variety evolved from the African variety
(11:57):
or vice versa, or if it was a simultaneous event.
Research suggest that some of the earliest high biscus teas
go back hundreds of years out of West Africa. These
teas were believed to be medicinal and sometimes incorporated in
ceremonies and may have been an offering for people coming
(12:18):
to visit your home. So if somebody was visiting you,
you'd be like, have some high biscus to you, very
hospital Yeah. Other sources put it back to ancient Egypt
and Asia, where it was also it was used primarily medicinally.
Historians believe that the African genus of hibiscus was introduced
(12:38):
to the Caribbean with European colonization beginning in the early
fifteen hundreds. Enslaved West Africans forcibly relocated to the Caribbean
brought the plant and traditions around it with them. Growing
food stuffs from Africa and small subsistence gardens was a
way to hold on to pieces of their homelands and
(13:00):
and the knowledge around these plants, and a form of
resistance and hope. Hibiscus, which took off in the Caribbean
and in parts of the Americas, was a staple in
many of these gardens. Most often it was used medicinally
or consumed as a type of drink, just as it
had been in Africa, with the addition of ingredients available
(13:23):
in the Caribbean, like certain spices would go in there
many variations with many names spread across the Americas where
hibiscus was available, it served as a reminder of the
survivor of their ancestors. For the people who were making
it under these violent conditions of colonialism, it was symbolic
(13:48):
of bloodshed, but it was also symbolic of strength. We've survived.
We should celebrate this. Yeah. Meanwhile, the Asian genus of
hyperscus likely arrived to the Caribbean in the eighteen thirties
with the first waves of indentured laborers from Asia, an
exploitative system put in place after the abolition of the
(14:11):
Atlantic slave trade. So kind of another terrible system that
got put in place. Yep, yep. In some places like India,
the high biscus flower had spiritual and symbolic connotations that
were in some cases adopted or adapted to Caribbean beliefs,
so it also had that kind of symbolicism or religious aspect.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Stepping back a bit, Hibiscus may have hit Mexico from
the west coast, as it was simultaneously arriving in the
Caribbean to the east. By the fifteen sixties, the Spanish
were building a trade route from the Philippines to Mexico
and then overland to the east coast, and then from
Mexico to Spain. So from the Pacific, the Spanish landed
(15:00):
in the port city of Acapulco in what's now Correro,
which is the leading producer of hibiscus today.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yes. Carlinaeus gave hibiscus its scientific name in seventeen fifty three,
and food historian Adrian Miller believes that hibiscus tea combined
with Cola nut tea because coalon nuts were another crop
that were often grown alongside hibiscus by the enslaved, led
(15:31):
to the creation of red drink, which yes is a
category of drinks that grew to include kool aid and
carbonated red drinks. Records indicate that there were early red
drinks on plantations in the American South during enslavement in
after emancipation, and they were a combination of water, molasses,
(15:52):
and sometimes other herbs and spices. At the time, molasses
varied in hue and could have a red tone, so
that could have added to the color. This drink later
became associated with June teenth. If hibiscus wasn't available, cherries
or some type of berry to get that red hue
(16:12):
was used. It was and is typically a very celebratory drink. Yes,
The first known reference to red drink goes back to
the practice amongst Black Americans of putting strawberries, cherries, sumac,
or raspberries in their lemonade to add that red coloring.
In the eighteen seventies, this beverage was often served at
(16:36):
emancipation ceremonies or anniversaries. It was also popularly associated with circuses,
to the point it was sometimes called circus lemonade. Over
the ensuing decades, a handful of articles referenced emancipation celebrations
that featured something like red pop or red lemonade. Powdered
(16:56):
kool aid was invented in the nineteen twenties. The red
soda Big Red was invented in Texas in nineteen thirty seven.
Both are pieces of the story of red drink. Caribbean
immigrants to America in the late twentieth century helped popularize
hibiscus tea in the United States. But this brings us
(17:18):
two a point I feel we'd come across all too often,
when hibiscus tea was commercialized on a large scale, it
often was reduced to spa water, which is like, you know,
when you walk into I'm picturing an all white, bright office,
(17:39):
all white coloring wise, but also probably but you know,
yeah yeah, yeah, very very clean, sterile sort of looking. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
where there would be this water jug that would have
cucumbers in it. That's what when I think of spa water,
that's what I typically q.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Or lemon or yeah, maybe hibiscus flowers.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yes, And this was a pretty trendy thing in the
twenty tens, this spa water thing, But that completely erases
the history of high biscus tea and what it means
to so many And this led to a lot of
conversations around cultural appropriation as well. It should as well
(18:28):
it should because that's really reducing it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, that's really flattening it out of right, out of
any meaning. And yes, the flowers are pretty like, yes,
it's it's lovely, but gosh, you could do that in
a slightly more contextual way, which is interesting, which is
like the fun part about food, right right, or I
(18:57):
mean like, of course we agree with that, we run
a food podcast, but.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
No exactly because there was like a specific example that
was given in one of the things one of the
articles I was reading, and it wasn't necessarily hibiscus tea,
but it was related, and it just felt so like
this person doesn't know she like she feels like she
(19:21):
created this thing for the first time when there's this
huge history of resistance and what it means and all
of the complexities of it, and you're like, here's this spat.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Water here you go.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, always good to know where you're
getting your information from.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Oh yeah, I mean it's also I mean, look like
like being willfully ignorant isn't cool, but like we're all
ignorant about stuff, like you know, like there's you know,
I learned new things every day as part of this job.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah yeah, and being willing to acknowledge that if you
were in.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
The row, yeah, trying to think about it before you really.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
First, but if you did get it wrong, yeah yeah yeah.
I did want to add here, though, a smaller, often
family owned businesses operated by folks from places with hibiscus
tea traditions offer products while still honoring the history, so
you can get not all commercialized. Hibiscus tea is something
(20:38):
that is disconnected from the history or not even at
all what it is in some cases advertising is like
this is a business tea and that's not what it
is at all. But there are there are people who
are offering products who do know the history and are
(20:59):
offering what the thing is.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, Like, if you've got a Caribbean market somewhere around
your neighborhood, their chances are that they sell either in
like a tetra pack or perhaps fresh a like Sorrel,
maybe like Sorrel with ginger drink in a cold case somewhere,
which is probably delightful. And that's one of the things
(21:24):
that I always pick up when I go to that
kind of spot. Most of the Mexican markets around Atlanta
certainly have some like floor de Hamica hanging out in
like little dried pouches somewhere in the store. Yeah, I
don't know. It's I feel like we are so lucky
to have so many people bringing their food culture in
(21:50):
and sharing it, and I you know, this is this
is one of those cases where it's like gotten easier
and to them suddenly harder to find that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And this is an episode I would
recommend a sign further reading, just because this drink did
branch off and mean so much and so many things
(22:28):
to different cultures. Yeah that we couldn't go into all
of it, but it really is amazing and important history
and why this why it matters that we should know
the history of it when we were partaking.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, yeah, and and reading personal accounts about it is
really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's really cool and you can do that, you can, thankfully,
another thing we can be grateful for people have written
about it and they've done research into it, So recommend
that you look that up. But I think that's what
we have to say about High Biscus Tea for now.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I believe it is. We would also love to hear
from you if you already have personal experiences that you
would like to share. We do already have some listener
mail for you, though, and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from one
more quick break for a word from our sponsors, and
(23:44):
we're back.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And we're back with
oh this listener. Huh do you ever have a day
dream of destroying someone in karaoke?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's just very specific?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
No, I don't, I I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
You are you are like, I'm solidly seventy percent more
competitive than I am. I'm I'm a little like timid.
I'm like, what if we play a game where we
all win at the end.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I'm talking about revenge though. Oh no, I'm better than you.
But like, here's this song and I'm going to absolutely
ruin you.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I've done that.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I have to.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Not positive that the message got across or not, but
I've definitely done that.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
So okay, okay, Well, let's just say I've been having
this day dream lately and I that's kind of what
was coming through, not related to the topic our listeners.
Sometimes it's just whatever I'm sharing. Yeah, but yeah, we'll
see look out cool. Yeah yeah, and now you'll know
(25:25):
because we do karaoke together, so you'll be like, oh,
here it is.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I know at least one that you do in a
revenge type manner. But go ahead, Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I have a couple songs. Indeed. Well, I'm sure that's
totally normal. Healthy. Okay. So Michael Rip took a bartending
class back in two thousand and four. Yikes, the mnemonic
for an Alabama slammer was slow slow gin southern southern
(25:59):
comet awl emaretto. Uh huh, Somewhere around that time, my
girlfriend discovered Red Devils, which are pretty good too. Is
basically an Alabama slammer mixed with a kamakazi, so slow
Southern apl with very vodka, little lime, time triple sack. Okay,
(26:26):
all right, if I was naming that, I'd probably call
it a Birmingham since a Cosmopolitan is basically a red
cranberry Kamakazi, and Birmingham is the capital of Alabama. But
I digress. You mentioned TGI Fridays in that episode, and
it's sad what it's become. We might have actually discovered
(26:47):
Red Devils there around that time. We were all in
our early twenties, and this was before Friday's descended into streamlined,
corporate bland nonsense. They had a legit cocktail book on
every table and it was a solid place to go
as a group of young people in the evening. Food apps,
good drinks, The bartenders were good and trained, and we
(27:11):
spent many a night there. I thank you for sending
this in. Yes, I feel like I've only experienced TGI
Fridays as it is now. I don't think I experienced before,
experienced it before it changed.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Oh wow, Yeah, I think I've mentioned on the show
before perhaps this is what you're referencing. I don't remember
what I've said that. Right when I was a teenager
in my little strip mall of a hometown in South Florida,
one of the places that was like open, relatively late,
(27:51):
and tolerant of teenagers was a TGI Fridays, And we
partially liked it because even as teenagers, they had they
they had like a hole, they had a whole lot
of mocktails, and so we felt very adult ordering our
like silly layered juice blends or whatever it was. And
(28:14):
uh yeah, yeah, no, they they were. They were really
on the forefront of something. And I earnestly like I
say this partially because, like I've said before that my
dad was a chef or restaurant industry at any rate,
and and he knew a guy who worked high up
(28:37):
in like concept stuff at TGA Fridays right around when
they became this giant cocktail book type of place. And
that was a really fascinating time to have a little
bit of an eye into the restaurant industry because it's
sort of when a lot of the kitchen shortcuts were
(29:00):
were being implemented when places started being able to have
these giant menus because of stuff happening behind the scenes
like factories and and other companies. And I don't know,
I don't know. It's always so interesting the way that
all of that stuff works.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
It is, it is. And in my equivalent, I had
an apple Pie's, so you yeah, I had an Applebee's,
So I understand what you're so similar vibe really like, yeah,
and it was the place you would go when you were,
you know, a teenager looking for kind of an adult vibe.
(29:38):
I don't know, Yeah, get your mock tails. But yeah, no, Now,
I had a great time at a TGI Friday, So
I know I told that story, But I I did
the thing where at at an airport where they're like,
we'll pay you eight hundred dollars and pay for your
time if you'll go the next day. Yeah, And I
(29:59):
did it, and I they gave me a lot of
money to go to teach. And I kind of had
a great time honestly because I was in the airport,
so I was looking around and just enjoying what TGI
Fridays has to offer. Not a sponsor, not a sponsor.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Oh no, But also thank you for this little bartending
guide up here. Yes, that's very funny and only slightly terrifying.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, I very much enjoy this. This is one of
those like glimpses into a world that I don't know
much about and that I'm intrigued so much by. So
thank you. Oh oh goodness.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Noah wrote about the Silver Palette cookbook. So you asked
if any of us had a specific relationship with these
Silver Palletate cookbook and I got to say, from my childhood,
I cannot sing its praise is enough.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Picture this.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It's the early nineteen nineties and you're a seven to
thirteen year old kid who is very interested in cooking
and food. You've mastered the basics and the family standards,
but what's wild and interesting? The stretch goals something accessible
but fancy and fine. It is pre Internet and there
are a smattering of cookbooks on the shelf. There's a
(31:28):
Better Homes and Gardens book from nineteen fifty seven, interesting
in concept, but you're a tween latchkey kid. Oven hamburgers,
pork roast, some basic sandwiches, lasagna, etc. Doesn't interest you
at all. This is the best old hat and more
of a reference. Then the kid's cookbooks. Great for some
snacks or staples. I don't really want to make peanut
(31:49):
butter cookies. Pancakes for the morning is kind of blab.
Chocolate cover bananas are neat I guess than the others.
Moose wood is stuff for hippies. No twelve year old
wants to make a kale based soup. Then A Shining
Light in the darkness the Silver Palette cookbook. These women
are serious about food, but really the joy, focus, blurbs
(32:12):
and expanded notation really sent me. It was earth shattering.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Not just a.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Cookbook, but a book about food. They'll take a few
pages just to talk about pasta shapes. There's talk about
not just meals planned for a family or how to
make breakfast, but ideas for picnics or Fourth of July celebrations,
foods people enjoy in winter, little anecdotes from their business.
Plus the stuff was both incredible and laid out in
such a way that you could just do it. Yes,
(32:40):
perhaps the amateur Gormond's goal is to cook restaurant quality food,
and wow, these are steps from people who have done
it one hundred times. There are more tricks than just
salt and butter, or covering a chicken in herbs to
roast it. There is a pasta sauce with sausage, onions,
and peppers. I had a basic knowledge of red sauces.
You know, you do a basic bit with garlic and onions,
(33:01):
add a can of crushed tomatoes, and then you maybe
move on to marinera or catch tory or whatever. I
think this one hooked me. You're starting out by pricking
a pound of sausage with a fork, simmering it in
half an inch of water until it boils dry. Then
brown them and pull them and fry up the onions garlic,
then pull that out and fry up the bell peppers.
(33:21):
Eventually it's a perfect sublime sauce where everything is perfectly
cooked through but nothing is overdone, perfect big chunks of
texture with your forfella or whatever. You taste every bit individually,
like there's so much reason in these. Even the halla
not much of a baker, but boiling milk and sugar
(33:42):
before letting it cool and then making a dough does
work out to make a sweet, fine grained bread that
you braided yourself. I did have to figure out the
flour content on that one. But it was still sublime anyhow. Yeah,
it's very vinegarrette and herb heavy, but at that time
in my life, it was the kind of book that
really made me want to explore food and empowered me
(34:05):
to do cool things. That kid who was putting chicken
livers or a butterfly leg of lamb on the shopping
list grew up to be someone who's making dandylion capers
or a fridge gravlax, or throwing ganash on peanut butter
Christmas cookies, or trying several of the mentioned variants in
Raw Dog, or listening to your wonderful podcast. I think
(34:26):
I can trace back the big jump to this one cookbook.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh that's lovely. That is ough, that is so I
adore this so much. Right, you were so I love that.
You were a twelve year old. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Like being like, okay, leg a lamb. Mom like yes,
get this party started.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yes, you wanted to try new things, and you this
book was the launching point. I love it. That's so fantastic.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
It like empowered and encouraged you to do it. Oh
my goodness, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah. Yeah, and that you continued, you took that and
kept it and continued with it in your in your life,
and so you're still experimenting and like trying new things
and learning. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, like the joy that it teaches is really real.
And moosewood is stuff for hippies. No. Twelve girl wants
to make a kale based soup.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
It's true. A lot of truths were dropped in this message. Yes,
so thank you, yes, oh yes, thank you so much. Man.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
I love that you remember, like a line by line
that that uh pasta sauce recipe.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
That's so good. Yeah. Hey, some recipes change your life,
they do, they do, my goodness. Well, thank you so
much to both of these listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, you can or
email us hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Oh, we're also on social media. You can find us
on Blue Sky or Instagram at saverpod and we do
hope to hear from you. Saveor is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from heart Radio, you can visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan
and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we
(36:36):
hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saber Projection for iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about hibiscus tea.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Uh, it has been on my list for a very
long time, and I really wanted to talk about it,
especially given that we are kind of entering the summer season.
What a nice time for a nice refreshing drink if
you choose an iced version of a hibiscus tea. And furthermore,
(00:44):
we are rolling up on Juneteenth, and so yeah, I
thought this was a great, great opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yes, yes it is. I don't think I've ever had
hibiscus tea, to be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
No, Oh my goodness, I've definitely had it as an
agua fresca. And also some of my favorite hot teas
do have hibiscus in them.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So yeah, they sound nice. They sound oh really lovely.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So bright and zingy, so red.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Color can be important to food.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And oh absolutely yeah you eat with your eyes first.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yes, well, I suppose this brings us to our question, sure,
hibiscus tea, what is it?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, Hibiscus tea is a beverage made by steeping parts
of the flowers of a specific type of Hibiscus makes
sense in boiling water usually and then often chilling and
sweetening that infusion to produce this like vibrant, deep pink
to parl buish red drink that is tart and fruity
(02:04):
and a little floral. It's often seasoned with similar or
contrasting flavors like ginger, citrus, rose, orange blossom, cinnamon, allspice, vanilla,
or mint. At heavy concentrations, and when it's sweetened, Hibiscus
tea really tastes more like a juice than a tea
(02:25):
or a tisane technically because it doesn't contain the tea plant,
but yeah, Hibiscus tea is sometimes called a juice. You
can mix it with fruit juices, or with soda, water,
or with liquor. The flowers can be used to make
all kinds of other things, preserves, wines, use them as
an ingredient in savory or sweet dishes. But today we're
(02:47):
focusing on the drinks. A lot of different cultures do
have their own virgins and customs. But like, the color
is just so fun and the flavor is so refreshing
that it is often like a small treat or a
celebratory drink for like holidays and gatherings. Hibiscus tea is
(03:10):
like if you could juice a jewel. It's like it's
like drinking gemstones.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, that's a good description based on the pictures I've seen.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yep, yep, and a tip of the hat to see
us Lewis for that one, because somewhere in the Silver
Chair they talk about juicing gemstones, and that's a line
that's really stuck with me.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Anyway, Okay, these flowers go buy a lot of names.
Roselle hibiscus is a common one in Mexican Spanish, it's
a Florida hamiica and the drink is an agua fresca
called agua de hamiica. In Jamaica, it's often called so
not to be confused with other tart tasting plants that
(04:03):
go by the same name, and those are kind of
the ones that are likely that you're likely to run
across in the United States. There are dozens of other
local names for this plant wherever it has grown across,
like Asia and Africa and South America. Whatever you call it, colloquially,
the botanical name for the plant is Hibiscus sabdarifa sebdarifa
(04:25):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It's in the mallow family though, and is thus related
to all kinds of things that we've talked about before,
from like okra to cacao to durian to yes the
plant that was originally in marshmallows before marshmallows were made
of gelatin and stuff. This plant is a woody shrub
or kind of like shrublet with often burgundy stems, and
(04:46):
it grows these long green leaves that are ribbed with red.
The leaves are also edible. I've read that they're like
a spicy spinach. Never tried them. Right in you can
extract strong fibers from the stems that can be used
to weave like rope and rough fabrics, though the varieties
that are used for fiber are different than the ones
used for food. Typically, the ones used for food will
(05:07):
bud and then bloom with this really fleshy calyx, and
the calyx is the support structure that sort of cups
the flour from the bottom of the bloom, made up
of a ring of variably fleshy sepals. Yeah, and the
calyx on this type of hibiscus will usually be a
deep blood red in color and almost a vegetable in texture.
(05:30):
The actual blossoms are a papery like white yellow to
pink with a red center, and then the bloom will
die back and the plant's fruit a seed pod will
develop inside the calyx, which will remain and grow with
it once that fruit is mature but not ripe, at
which point the fruit will dry out and crack open.
(05:52):
Once it's mature, you can harvest the whole head and
then peel and probably discard the fruit unless you're saving
it for seeds, and save the red calyx to use
fresh or freeze or dry. You can also preserve them
by pickling or canning and syrup, but that's not usually
what you're going for in drinks unless you want like
a really awesome garnish for a drink maybe, And that
(06:14):
would be pretty because when they are fresh they are
really stunning, just like a slightly translucent ruby crimson colors,
sort of like alien looking pods, like like a cartoon
flower bud or like a weird puppet.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, there's a lot of great hand gestures happening.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
By the way, listeners, if you sort of make the
gesture you would make to operate a hand puppet, that's
kind of what they look like. Anyway. They will dry
down to a deep burgundy. And there are varieties that
have green calusies, but they're less popular for making drinks
with because they're not as pretty. Drinks made with this
(07:00):
a flower bit are popular around lots of the tropical
to subtropical world where the plants thrive. You know, yeah,
like the color is pretty, the flavor is tart, sort
of like cranberry. It is a wonderful hot weather drink
around the Caribbean. Punches made with hibiscus are also traditionally
enjoyed around Christmas. Teas made with hibiscus can be served
(07:23):
hot as well. If you have ever had one of
the Celestial Seasonings zinger flavors, the zinger in question is hibiscus.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
That's what that is.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Oh okay, yeah, yeah, super good. I feel like Celestial
Seasonings is a weird company. There's a little ping in
my brain going like are they strange? And I'm not
sure off the top of my head. So here we
are not a sponsor. We can say not a sponsor, hey,
but at any rate. Also, also, hibiscus tea is like
(07:58):
a cultural precursor to a bunch of other vibrantly red
colored drinks in Black American cultures. Red drink is a
catch all term for bright red drinks that can feature
any number of ingredients and flavors. You know, maybe hibiscus,
but maybe strawberry, cherry, raspberry, sumac, cranberry, maybe a red
(08:20):
kool aid or big red soda, or a lemonade that's
been taken straight past pink and all the way to
very red. You know. Different regions or neighborhoods or households
may have preferences or traditions, and these are popular, especially
around Juneteenth. I will say that if you're looking to
(08:41):
work with hibiscus for the first time at home, look
up a few recipes. I mean usually probably do that
with any new ingredient. But yeah, it's often suggested to
do like a prolonged simmer instead of like a brief
steep to get the most out of your flowers.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yes, yes, and again, listeners please write.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
In oh my goodness, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yes, Well what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Really depends on how you make your hibiscus tea. Perhaps obviously,
the more sugar you use, the more of a treat
that will probably count as but treats are nice. High
biscus flowers do contain a lot of compounds that are
like potentially useful in our bodies, and these teas and
extracts thereof are being investigated for positive effects, including like
(09:30):
lowering blood pressure. But yeah, savor motto. Bodies are complicated.
Nutrition is complicated. Before ingesting a medicinal dose of anything,
you should check with a healthcare provider. And we're not that.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
No, nope, who were not, No birds. I do appreciate
how that sounds like the very the quick message they
read at the end of medicine ads. Though medicinal ads
in the US the fine say yeah, yeah, yes, yes,
(10:03):
that's sabers version of that.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah yeah, with less vomiting and diarrhea involved, usually hopefully
so hopefully hopefully so.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
We do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
A couple all right. So in Mexico, the state of
Guerrero grows the most of this type of hibiscus, with
some six thousand farmers raising some eleven million pounds of
it every year as of twenty nineteen. Back around the
turn of the twenty first century, the FAO, the Food
(10:37):
and Agriculture Organization of the UN, noted that some fifteen
million metric tons were traded internationally every year, with China
and Thailand producing the most and the US and Germany
importing the most. They also noted in the same report
(10:59):
that Sudan produces the best. Really, yeah, they were like
this one.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I don't know that I've seen that before.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
All right, I'm like, all right.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Okay, oh my goodness. All right, well, we do have
quite a history for you.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
We do, and we are going to get into that.
But first we are going to get into a quick
break for a word from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, okay. So, Hibiscus originated
in West Africa, where it was also domesticated. Another species
may have originated in Asia. There are some differing theories
about whether the Asian variety evolved from the African variety
(11:57):
or vice versa, or if it was a simultaneous event.
Research suggest that some of the earliest high biscus teas
go back hundreds of years out of West Africa. These
teas were believed to be medicinal and sometimes incorporated in
ceremonies and may have been an offering for people coming
(12:18):
to visit your home. So if somebody was visiting you,
you'd be like, have some high biscus to you, very
hospital Yeah. Other sources put it back to ancient Egypt
and Asia, where it was also it was used primarily medicinally.
Historians believe that the African genus of hibiscus was introduced
(12:38):
to the Caribbean with European colonization beginning in the early
fifteen hundreds. Enslaved West Africans forcibly relocated to the Caribbean
brought the plant and traditions around it with them. Growing
food stuffs from Africa and small subsistence gardens was a
way to hold on to pieces of their homelands and
(13:00):
and the knowledge around these plants, and a form of
resistance and hope. Hibiscus, which took off in the Caribbean
and in parts of the Americas, was a staple in
many of these gardens. Most often it was used medicinally
or consumed as a type of drink, just as it
had been in Africa, with the addition of ingredients available
(13:23):
in the Caribbean, like certain spices would go in there
many variations with many names spread across the Americas where
hibiscus was available, it served as a reminder of the
survivor of their ancestors. For the people who were making
it under these violent conditions of colonialism, it was symbolic
(13:48):
of bloodshed, but it was also symbolic of strength. We've survived.
We should celebrate this. Yeah. Meanwhile, the Asian genus of
hyperscus likely arrived to the Caribbean in the eighteen thirties
with the first waves of indentured laborers from Asia, an
exploitative system put in place after the abolition of the
(14:11):
Atlantic slave trade. So kind of another terrible system that
got put in place. Yep, yep. In some places like India,
the high biscus flower had spiritual and symbolic connotations that
were in some cases adopted or adapted to Caribbean beliefs,
so it also had that kind of symbolicism or religious aspect.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Stepping back a bit, Hibiscus may have hit Mexico from
the west coast, as it was simultaneously arriving in the
Caribbean to the east. By the fifteen sixties, the Spanish
were building a trade route from the Philippines to Mexico
and then overland to the east coast, and then from
Mexico to Spain. So from the Pacific, the Spanish landed
(15:00):
in the port city of Acapulco in what's now Correro,
which is the leading producer of hibiscus today.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yes. Carlinaeus gave hibiscus its scientific name in seventeen fifty three,
and food historian Adrian Miller believes that hibiscus tea combined
with Cola nut tea because coalon nuts were another crop
that were often grown alongside hibiscus by the enslaved, led
(15:31):
to the creation of red drink, which yes is a
category of drinks that grew to include kool aid and
carbonated red drinks. Records indicate that there were early red
drinks on plantations in the American South during enslavement in
after emancipation, and they were a combination of water, molasses,
(15:52):
and sometimes other herbs and spices. At the time, molasses
varied in hue and could have a red tone, so
that could have added to the color. This drink later
became associated with June teenth. If hibiscus wasn't available, cherries
or some type of berry to get that red hue
(16:12):
was used. It was and is typically a very celebratory drink. Yes,
The first known reference to red drink goes back to
the practice amongst Black Americans of putting strawberries, cherries, sumac,
or raspberries in their lemonade to add that red coloring.
In the eighteen seventies, this beverage was often served at
(16:36):
emancipation ceremonies or anniversaries. It was also popularly associated with circuses,
to the point it was sometimes called circus lemonade. Over
the ensuing decades, a handful of articles referenced emancipation celebrations
that featured something like red pop or red lemonade. Powdered
(16:56):
kool aid was invented in the nineteen twenties. The red
soda Big Red was invented in Texas in nineteen thirty seven.
Both are pieces of the story of red drink. Caribbean
immigrants to America in the late twentieth century helped popularize
hibiscus tea in the United States. But this brings us
(17:18):
two a point I feel we'd come across all too often,
when hibiscus tea was commercialized on a large scale, it
often was reduced to spa water, which is like, you know,
when you walk into I'm picturing an all white, bright office,
(17:39):
all white coloring wise, but also probably but you know,
yeah yeah, yeah, very very clean, sterile sort of looking. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
where there would be this water jug that would have
cucumbers in it. That's what when I think of spa water,
that's what I typically q.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Or lemon or yeah, maybe hibiscus flowers.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yes, And this was a pretty trendy thing in the
twenty tens, this spa water thing, But that completely erases
the history of high biscus tea and what it means
to so many And this led to a lot of
conversations around cultural appropriation as well. It should as well
(18:28):
it should because that's really reducing it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, that's really flattening it out of right, out of
any meaning. And yes, the flowers are pretty like, yes,
it's it's lovely, but gosh, you could do that in
a slightly more contextual way, which is interesting, which is
like the fun part about food, right right, or I
(18:57):
mean like, of course we agree with that, we run
a food podcast, but.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
No exactly because there was like a specific example that
was given in one of the things one of the
articles I was reading, and it wasn't necessarily hibiscus tea,
but it was related, and it just felt so like
this person doesn't know she like she feels like she
(19:21):
created this thing for the first time when there's this
huge history of resistance and what it means and all
of the complexities of it, and you're like, here's this spat.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Water here you go.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, always good to know where you're
getting your information from.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Oh yeah, I mean it's also I mean, look like
like being willfully ignorant isn't cool, but like we're all
ignorant about stuff, like you know, like there's you know,
I learned new things every day as part of this job.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah yeah, and being willing to acknowledge that if you
were in.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
The row, yeah, trying to think about it before you really.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
First, but if you did get it wrong, yeah yeah yeah.
I did want to add here, though, a smaller, often
family owned businesses operated by folks from places with hibiscus
tea traditions offer products while still honoring the history, so
you can get not all commercialized. Hibiscus tea is something
(20:38):
that is disconnected from the history or not even at
all what it is in some cases advertising is like
this is a business tea and that's not what it
is at all. But there are there are people who
are offering products who do know the history and are
(20:59):
offering what the thing is.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, Like, if you've got a Caribbean market somewhere around
your neighborhood, their chances are that they sell either in
like a tetra pack or perhaps fresh a like Sorrel,
maybe like Sorrel with ginger drink in a cold case somewhere,
which is probably delightful. And that's one of the things
(21:24):
that I always pick up when I go to that
kind of spot. Most of the Mexican markets around Atlanta
certainly have some like floor de Hamica hanging out in
like little dried pouches somewhere in the store. Yeah, I
don't know. It's I feel like we are so lucky
to have so many people bringing their food culture in
(21:50):
and sharing it, and I you know, this is this
is one of those cases where it's like gotten easier
and to them suddenly harder to find that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And this is an episode I would
recommend a sign further reading, just because this drink did
branch off and mean so much and so many things
(22:28):
to different cultures. Yeah that we couldn't go into all
of it, but it really is amazing and important history
and why this why it matters that we should know
the history of it when we were partaking.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, yeah, and and reading personal accounts about it is
really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's really cool and you can do that, you can, thankfully,
another thing we can be grateful for people have written
about it and they've done research into it, So recommend
that you look that up. But I think that's what
we have to say about High Biscus Tea for now.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I believe it is. We would also love to hear
from you if you already have personal experiences that you
would like to share. We do already have some listener
mail for you, though, and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from one
more quick break for a word from our sponsors, and
(23:44):
we're back.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And we're back with
oh this listener. Huh do you ever have a day
dream of destroying someone in karaoke?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's just very specific?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
No, I don't, I I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
You are you are like, I'm solidly seventy percent more
competitive than I am. I'm I'm a little like timid.
I'm like, what if we play a game where we
all win at the end.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I'm talking about revenge though. Oh no, I'm better than you.
But like, here's this song and I'm going to absolutely
ruin you.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I've done that.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I have to.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Not positive that the message got across or not, but
I've definitely done that.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
So okay, okay, Well, let's just say I've been having
this day dream lately and I that's kind of what
was coming through, not related to the topic our listeners.
Sometimes it's just whatever I'm sharing. Yeah, but yeah, we'll
see look out cool. Yeah yeah, and now you'll know
(25:25):
because we do karaoke together, so you'll be like, oh,
here it is.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I know at least one that you do in a
revenge type manner. But go ahead, Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I have a couple songs. Indeed. Well, I'm sure that's
totally normal. Healthy. Okay. So Michael Rip took a bartending
class back in two thousand and four. Yikes, the mnemonic
for an Alabama slammer was slow slow gin southern southern
(25:59):
comet awl emaretto. Uh huh, Somewhere around that time, my
girlfriend discovered Red Devils, which are pretty good too. Is
basically an Alabama slammer mixed with a kamakazi, so slow
Southern apl with very vodka, little lime, time triple sack. Okay,
(26:26):
all right, if I was naming that, I'd probably call
it a Birmingham since a Cosmopolitan is basically a red
cranberry Kamakazi, and Birmingham is the capital of Alabama. But
I digress. You mentioned TGI Fridays in that episode, and
it's sad what it's become. We might have actually discovered
(26:47):
Red Devils there around that time. We were all in
our early twenties, and this was before Friday's descended into streamlined,
corporate bland nonsense. They had a legit cocktail book on
every table and it was a solid place to go
as a group of young people in the evening. Food apps,
good drinks, The bartenders were good and trained, and we
(27:11):
spent many a night there. I thank you for sending
this in. Yes, I feel like I've only experienced TGI
Fridays as it is now. I don't think I experienced before,
experienced it before it changed.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Oh wow, Yeah, I think I've mentioned on the show
before perhaps this is what you're referencing. I don't remember
what I've said that. Right when I was a teenager
in my little strip mall of a hometown in South Florida,
one of the places that was like open, relatively late,
(27:51):
and tolerant of teenagers was a TGI Fridays, And we
partially liked it because even as teenagers, they had they
they had like a hole, they had a whole lot
of mocktails, and so we felt very adult ordering our
like silly layered juice blends or whatever it was. And
(28:14):
uh yeah, yeah, no, they they were. They were really
on the forefront of something. And I earnestly like I
say this partially because, like I've said before that my
dad was a chef or restaurant industry at any rate,
and and he knew a guy who worked high up
(28:37):
in like concept stuff at TGA Fridays right around when
they became this giant cocktail book type of place. And
that was a really fascinating time to have a little
bit of an eye into the restaurant industry because it's
sort of when a lot of the kitchen shortcuts were
(29:00):
were being implemented when places started being able to have
these giant menus because of stuff happening behind the scenes
like factories and and other companies. And I don't know,
I don't know. It's always so interesting the way that
all of that stuff works.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
It is, it is. And in my equivalent, I had
an apple Pie's, so you yeah, I had an Applebee's,
So I understand what you're so similar vibe really like, yeah,
and it was the place you would go when you were,
you know, a teenager looking for kind of an adult vibe.
(29:38):
I don't know, Yeah, get your mock tails. But yeah, no, Now,
I had a great time at a TGI Friday, So
I know I told that story, But I I did
the thing where at at an airport where they're like,
we'll pay you eight hundred dollars and pay for your
time if you'll go the next day. Yeah, And I
(29:59):
did it, and I they gave me a lot of
money to go to teach. And I kind of had
a great time honestly because I was in the airport,
so I was looking around and just enjoying what TGI
Fridays has to offer. Not a sponsor, not a sponsor.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Oh no, But also thank you for this little bartending
guide up here. Yes, that's very funny and only slightly terrifying.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, I very much enjoy this. This is one of
those like glimpses into a world that I don't know
much about and that I'm intrigued so much by. So
thank you. Oh oh goodness.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Noah wrote about the Silver Palette cookbook. So you asked
if any of us had a specific relationship with these
Silver Palletate cookbook and I got to say, from my childhood,
I cannot sing its praise is enough.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Picture this.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It's the early nineteen nineties and you're a seven to
thirteen year old kid who is very interested in cooking
and food. You've mastered the basics and the family standards,
but what's wild and interesting? The stretch goals something accessible
but fancy and fine. It is pre Internet and there
are a smattering of cookbooks on the shelf. There's a
(31:28):
Better Homes and Gardens book from nineteen fifty seven, interesting
in concept, but you're a tween latchkey kid. Oven hamburgers,
pork roast, some basic sandwiches, lasagna, etc. Doesn't interest you
at all. This is the best old hat and more
of a reference. Then the kid's cookbooks. Great for some
snacks or staples. I don't really want to make peanut
(31:49):
butter cookies. Pancakes for the morning is kind of blab.
Chocolate cover bananas are neat I guess than the others.
Moose wood is stuff for hippies. No twelve year old
wants to make a kale based soup. Then A Shining
Light in the darkness the Silver Palette cookbook. These women
are serious about food, but really the joy, focus, blurbs
(32:12):
and expanded notation really sent me. It was earth shattering.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Not just a.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Cookbook, but a book about food. They'll take a few
pages just to talk about pasta shapes. There's talk about
not just meals planned for a family or how to
make breakfast, but ideas for picnics or Fourth of July celebrations,
foods people enjoy in winter, little anecdotes from their business.
Plus the stuff was both incredible and laid out in
such a way that you could just do it. Yes,
(32:40):
perhaps the amateur Gormond's goal is to cook restaurant quality food,
and wow, these are steps from people who have done
it one hundred times. There are more tricks than just
salt and butter, or covering a chicken in herbs to
roast it. There is a pasta sauce with sausage, onions,
and peppers. I had a basic knowledge of red sauces.
You know, you do a basic bit with garlic and onions,
(33:01):
add a can of crushed tomatoes, and then you maybe
move on to marinera or catch tory or whatever. I
think this one hooked me. You're starting out by pricking
a pound of sausage with a fork, simmering it in
half an inch of water until it boils dry. Then
brown them and pull them and fry up the onions garlic,
then pull that out and fry up the bell peppers.
(33:21):
Eventually it's a perfect sublime sauce where everything is perfectly
cooked through but nothing is overdone, perfect big chunks of
texture with your forfella or whatever. You taste every bit individually,
like there's so much reason in these. Even the halla
not much of a baker, but boiling milk and sugar
(33:42):
before letting it cool and then making a dough does
work out to make a sweet, fine grained bread that
you braided yourself. I did have to figure out the
flour content on that one. But it was still sublime anyhow. Yeah,
it's very vinegarrette and herb heavy, but at that time
in my life, it was the kind of book that
really made me want to explore food and empowered me
(34:05):
to do cool things. That kid who was putting chicken
livers or a butterfly leg of lamb on the shopping
list grew up to be someone who's making dandylion capers
or a fridge gravlax, or throwing ganash on peanut butter
Christmas cookies, or trying several of the mentioned variants in
Raw Dog, or listening to your wonderful podcast. I think
(34:26):
I can trace back the big jump to this one cookbook.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh that's lovely. That is ough, that is so I
adore this so much. Right, you were so I love that.
You were a twelve year old. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Like being like, okay, leg a lamb. Mom like yes,
get this party started.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yes, you wanted to try new things, and you this
book was the launching point. I love it. That's so fantastic.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
It like empowered and encouraged you to do it. Oh
my goodness, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah. Yeah, and that you continued, you took that and
kept it and continued with it in your in your life,
and so you're still experimenting and like trying new things
and learning. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, like the joy that it teaches is really real.
And moosewood is stuff for hippies. No. Twelve girl wants
to make a kale based soup.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
It's true. A lot of truths were dropped in this message. Yes,
so thank you, yes, oh yes, thank you so much. Man.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
I love that you remember, like a line by line
that that uh pasta sauce recipe.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
That's so good. Yeah. Hey, some recipes change your life,
they do, they do, my goodness. Well, thank you so
much to both of these listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, you can or
email us hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Oh, we're also on social media. You can find us
on Blue Sky or Instagram at saverpod and we do
hope to hear from you. Saveor is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from heart Radio, you can visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan
and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we
(36:36):
hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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