Activists Around the World: Elmer Lucille Allen

Elmer Lucille Allen has a long, storied, trailblazing career in chemistry, whiskey and art.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
And Samantha.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
And welcome to Stuff Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
And today, for our activists around the world, we are
going to celebrate the works of 95-year-old chemist and ceramicist
Elmer Lucille Harris. I do want to timestamp this. This
today is August 25th, 2026, because one— It was Annie's
birthday yesterday, August 24th, 2026. Happy birthday, Annie.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, a little shout out. A little late because, you know,
this is going to be the next week, but still. Also,
it was actually Miss Harris's birthday, 95th birthday recently as well,
the 23rd. She turned 95 years old. And I thought, wow,
what a better way to celebrate that. On her birthday.

(01:03):
For her birthday and your birthday. So this is like
a together birthday. Two amazing women. But we're going to
be talking about Miss Harris. Anyway, moving on. But with that, Annie,
this actually kind of feels like a crossover with the
original intent for a happy hour. Because Mrs. Harris actually
worked for the Kentucky Distillery Brown Foreman, who is behind

(01:25):
Jack Daniels. and many others in Kentucky. So I thought
that was really interesting. I do want to say at
one point, one of the interviews that she was on,
they asked her what her favorite drink was, cocktail, whiskey, whatever.
She was like, yeah, I don't drink. I think y'all
should drink responsibly. Which is what we say. Yes. Drink responsibly.

(01:49):
We agree with her. But just to say that, that
was a really funny part of our interview. Anyway, moving on.
So let's jump in. Harris was born in Louisville, Kentucky,
and was named after her father, and I believe so
was her younger brother. So both she, her father, and
her younger brother were all named Elmer. But she went

(02:09):
by Lucille or Syl, while her brother went by Bud.
So in an interview with Bourbon Women, she talked about
her childhood and said this. The period that I grew
up was segregated. I was born in 1931 to Ophelia
and Elmer Johnson Hammond Sr. I was the oldest of
three children. My mother worked in service as a maid cook,
and my father was an L & M Pullman porter.

(02:30):
Neither my father or my mother graduated from high school.
I went to school with African-American students who were taught
by African-American teachers. My sister and brother did not graduate
from high school, and I took courses at Central High
School that prepared me to go to college. And she
talks about taking chemistry, taking Latin, taking civics. So in
the same interview, she talks about having a stutter around

(02:51):
age 12, being younger. but really working hard through that
to practice speech. She apparently took extra English courses with
teachers so that she can continue to practice. And later,
she would end up giving the commencement speech in her school. Like,
she got through it. She definitely worked through that. Afterwards,
she went on to Louisville Municipal College but soon transferred

(03:13):
to Nazareth College, which is now known as Spalding University,
where she majored in chemistry with a mathematics minor. So
back to that same interview, she says, there were no
grants or scholarships in 1949. I paid my tuition by
working at the college, St. Augustine Catholic Church, babysitting, housecleaning, etc.
I attended Louisville Municipal College, LMC, the University of Louisville

(03:34):
College for African American students from 1949 to 1951 when
it closed. LMC offered survey courses in English, mathematics, science,
social studies, etc. When LMC closed in 1951, because the
day law was rescinded. So the day law was a
law to segregate the students, not allowing for the Black

(03:55):
students to attend school with white students. So that was rescinded.
And so that's when integration started happening. So continuing again
with that interview, when LMC closed in 1951, I went
to Nazareth College, I had to take 12 hours of
religion and philosophy. In addition, I took science, mathematics, psychology, English, speech,
and other required courses. Nazareth graduated its first two African-American

(04:17):
students in 1951 with the help of the other alumni.
There is an endowed Patricia Lauderdale Bell Barbara Miller scholarship
for 2014. I graduated in 1953 with a bachelor's of
science in general education with a major in chemistry and
a minor in mathematics. So with her degree, she stated

(04:37):
there was only two people that graduated with a chemistry degree.
But with that, she was not able to immediately get
a chemistry job. She would go on to work as
a civil servant in Indiana, but soon would go into medtech,
which brought her back to Kentucky, which then would allow
her to move on from medtech to research chemist for

(04:57):
the American Synthetic Rubber Company. And this would all lead
her to Brown Forman R & D. So back to
that interview, she said, my first position was as a
junior chemist. I analyzed raw materials, corn, rye, and malt. Eventually,
I moved to other positions within the R & D department.
I retired in February 1997 as a senior analytical chemist.

(05:20):
She was the first Black woman chemist for the company.
In fact, she was one of the few women to
have a non-secretarial job, as well as being the first
Black person that worked there at all. So she kind
of just broke some boundaries. especially when this big of
a company, which I guess wasn't that big. She talks
about it later, how it was a small company, and
that she was able to walk down the office and

(05:41):
see the president and the CEO, and it was like
a small family, she said. So here's a bit from
an article from AmericanWhiskeyMag.com. She began working as a chemist
at Brown Foreman in April 1966, at a time when
few women were in the workplace, and those who were
there found themselves in mostly secretarial roles. She joined a
team of three other women who worked in the research

(06:02):
and development labs on the first floor of the production building,
Maggie Boston, Bessie Welsh, Marge Plamp. While Elmer analyzed the
whiskeys and their raw materials, corn rye malt, she said, quote,
no one did the same job. Everybody had their own
little job. She remembers the deep impact of watching the
first woman enter the executive role. And I saw how
Lois Matias went up the ladder, and it was amazing,

(06:24):
you know. Looking back now, she says, I'm glad to
see women in roles now that weren't possible years ago. Like,
she really did see some things and was able to, like,
grow within a company, which is so rare these days.
I feel like she's just an icon in herself. So
during this time, she was able to help her own
children push the boundaries other than social norms. After her

(06:44):
sons were not allowed to play baseball within their little
league in their community, she and her husband formed an
integrated league, the Little League in Chickasaw Park, which allowed
for her kids to play. Which... It's just... But that
had to be done. And that's still a conversation that
we have to have. And I'm glad she's able to
talk about this. Because, again, this happened in someone who

(07:06):
was alive's lifetime. So it wasn't like a long, long, long,
long time ago. Which is what makes me sad. And
also makes people realize how recent these things were. And
all the while, in the 70s, Harris began her journey
in the art world. So this is from artandscience.louisville.edu. In
the late 1970s, to better cope with arthritis in her hands,

(07:29):
Allen took a ceramics course from an art therapist at
Seneca High School. This class inspired her to take ceramics
and fiber class at Metro Arts Center. So a bit
more information about that from the SD2. org about her artwork.
They say, throughout her time at Brown Foreman, Allen took
art classes. She first began ceramics in the late 1970s

(07:50):
as a way to help with arthritis, but she regained
the passion for creating that she had as a child.
Soon she was taking courses at the University of Louisville
and working with prominent Kentucky artists, being embraced by the
art community for who she was. I have not experienced
any discrimination as a woman artist or as an artist
of color, Ellen told Louisville Visual Art. My work does
not depict any culture. It speaks for itself. I create

(08:13):
work that I enjoy making. And yeah, her love for
art also led to her leading in general. She founded
the Kentucky Coalition for Afro-American Arts, which she has led
for over 10 years. And with that, she has continued
to learn. She got her master's in ceramics from the
University of Louisville, I want to say like 2017. So

(08:36):
back to SD2 article. My thesis exhibition consisted of stenciled
wall hangings, Allen said to Louisville Visual Arts in 2017,
and over 200 reduction-fired porcelain sculptural boxes that were placed
on boards on the floor, which meant you had to
view the pieces while standing. Right. So this was her
exhibition piece. And 2017, I'm like, ma'am, why are you

(08:59):
so motivated? You're making me look bad. Since then, she's
had several more exhibits, including in 2020, titled African American
Women Celebrating Diversity in Art. And in 2023, which was
titled Remembrance, which was a collaboration with several other artists.
So you can actually go and look up, I think,
local news and see some of her art pieces as well.

(09:21):
And they're beautiful. She has definitely earned a lot of
accolades for her works, including being honored by the Kentucky
Black Bourbon Guild. As well as in 2004, she was
given the Governor's Award in the Arts, Community Arts, which
she was the first recipient ever. She was given the
Women of Distinction in 2004. She was given the Parkland

(09:43):
Rising Up Project in 2016. I love this. She was
also Woman of Spunk from the Actors Theater in 2007.
And then she also was Louisville's Free Public Library's Pillar
of Louisville in 2019. She has had so much more
as well for her accolades in the world of bourbon. Obviously,

(10:04):
she broke a lot of barriers. We've talked about how
hard it is to be a part of that community
in that world. And for her to have been in
this field in 1966 is phenomenal. And the fact that
she got to retire there. So, yeah, I love it.
When I find something like this, it just makes it
so interesting. This also could be a movie, Annie.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yes. Yes. I love how her story jumps from here
to here to here. Art, chemistry, what else? What else
can I do?

Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Well, listeners, please write in if you have any thoughts
about this. If you have any suggestions, we would love
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We're also on Blue Sky at Mom's Self Podcast and
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We have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau and we have

(10:57):
a book you can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks as always to our super producer, Rima, and our
executive producer, Maya.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
And thanks to you for listening. Stuffman Never Told You
is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
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