June 2, 2026 • 13 mins
Today we uplift the works of lesbian icon, author, bodybuilder, poet and actor Kitty Tsui.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Smantha. I'm welcome to stuff
we never told your production. I hurried here.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And we are sliding into Pride Month for activists around
the world with a lesbian icon legend, y'all, and we
are talking about Kitty Sue. I'm gonna try to say
this name correct, y'all. Sue. I have a little of
a hard time with the ta, but yes, t s
U I And she is, as I said, a lesbian
icon who is also a writer, author, actor, poet, and bodybuilder.
(00:40):
She's also been on TV like she actually has a
whole documentary about her, which I feel like, you know,
happens a lot. We talk about these amazing people and
they're like, yeah, let's record her life. Yes, as they should.
But anyway, coming back, So, she was born in Hong
Kong and her parents actually left her under the care
of her grandmother to build a better life for them
(01:00):
and her in London. So at the age of five,
she finally went to live with them in London, and
it was a decade later that she would move with
her family to the US, to San Francisco specifically, and
in an interview with Elders Project with Columbia university. She
talks a bit about her educational experience and her growing
up and she says this, I had an English education.
(01:24):
I had a British education. We had to I mean,
math wasn't math, it was arithmetic, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, physics, chemistry,
Latin for two years. So when I got here and
it was all this multiple choice true falls. I mean
my kindergarten, we already write essays, so we had to
draw maps. And then she talks about her growing up
(01:44):
with hippie friends. So I love her like jumping about.
So this interview is very candid from her. It is
like a podcast interview, so it is recorded, and when
she's speaking about these things, she's going down memory lane,
and she has so many stories that she kind of
jumps so in her story, I do the same thing.
But if you've lived your life as iconically as she has,
(02:06):
I think you have so many tales to tell. But
she does jump around. But she does talk about how
even in like middle school, coming into the US, she
kind of got into a hippie crowd that her family
did not love. So she talks a lot about her
childhood and teenage years, which she again a mess that
she was a bit of a rebel, getting involved in
drugs and partying, but also awakening into who she is.
(02:30):
She talked about her experience watching protests that were occurring
in the night sixties seventies, so at like Berkeley, in
the different schools in San Francisco in California, and how
just watching these things she knew she was going to
these same schools. She saw the power behind these student strikes.
And at the same time she also talked about her
coming out. So this is from that same interview. I
(02:52):
took communications. It was in that department that we took
a class with Sally Miller Gearhart, and apparently, I believe
she's a pretty big lesbian con who tenured. Was one
of the first people lesbians two tenure. And it was
in this class. I mean, Sally Gearhart was just the
force of nature. She was an open lesbian. She was
the first who got tenured ever, I mean the first.
(03:13):
It was in her class that I came out. I
was bisexual for about one minute and then she goes yes,
and then my career in lesbianism began. I think. In
her conversation and talking about this, she talks about how
she considered herself bisexual because he heaps easier than saying lesbian,
but kind of realized, no, I never was. I was
always attracted to women, so I can't really claim that.
(03:33):
But in that moment, that was her coming out slowly
baby steps for her. So in another article written about her,
she talks about how it was difficult for her to
come out at first. So this is from Beijing Times
dot Com. In nineteen seventy three, at the tender age
of twenty one, at Kitty Suey, a creative writing student
at San Francisco State University, made the brave decision to
(03:56):
publicly identify as a lesbian. This revelation was not greeted
with acceptance from her family, friends, or the Chinese American
community she was a part of as a political activist. Instead,
she found herself isolated and rejected, so she made sure
that she came out. I think it was one of
those moments that she really kind of got the titleist
the first in her time to come out openly as
(04:18):
a lesbian, as a Chinese American, So it was a
pretty big deal, especially if you understand Chinese culture today
even and how that can be dangerous in doing so
and then if her family were a part of those
old school traditions, which they were, they're not very accepting
of it. But with all that, she was able to
find a group of people who not only accepted her,
(04:38):
but understood her as well. She would soon begin the
Asian American women's performance group Unbound Feet. And here's a
bit more from her interview. It was probably mid to
late nineteen seventies that a few of us came together.
We were thinking about forming a women's group, an Asian
women's group, and there were enough people, and then Unbound
Feet happened. It was the first Chinese American women's performance
(05:02):
group in the Bay Area. We started in nineteen seventy nine,
and we drew large crowds. I think API women were
drawn to it because of who we are, but fairly
soon they realized there were a lot of APIs out there,
so it began to be a place where we could
find friends and also date. So Unbound Feet we were
together from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty one, and
(05:22):
API Asian Pacific Islanders, y'all didn't no. And she continues
talking about some of her favorite memories. She says to
be with a group of Asian lesbians, Asian women, to
be able to read our own stuff, to work on
our own stuff, to do some things together, and then
to be on stage. We do completely different things. We
had dialogues, we had monologues, we had poetry, Kenyon Sam
(05:44):
did commercial parodies. So then the groups of APIs then
started growing, and we started a group called Asian Sisters,
and there were a few other groups in our groups
with different names and different people. We started having these
wonderful meetings in the park. I love that. I love
of reminiscing about college times when you just formed groups
like you could just do this and find commaderie in
(06:06):
such a way that really built your background, really built
who you were as an adult, and really taught you
who you were as an adult. Yes, even if it's
a Christian group that I would run away from later.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
On, it's a transformative time and time of learning.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Sure. Yes. So in her conversation, she talks about how
for a while she thought she was alone and there
were no other Asian lesbians out there, but realizing through
these groups that there were those who understood her, but
it wasn't managed that she really felt isolated and she
would just clean to her books and to the authors
(06:42):
to feel that less isolated. And she even talked about
the fact that as an Asian woman, it was still
hard to find canarderie because even these books were written
a lot of by white people, and it wasn't the
same for her, especially with her immigrant background, coming from
one area to another, living with her grandmother in Hong Kong,
which she did talk about as pretty formative, and how
her grandmother was her mother and father for so long
(07:05):
that she missed that, but she learned from her. So
her love of writing in books would soon lead to
her writing her first book titled Words of a Woman
who Breaths Fire, which I love that title.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
It's a great title, that's a powerful.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Title, which is considered one of the first known Chinese
American lesbian books out there. But of course this isn't
her only works. No, this is a little bit from
Asian Pacific Islander queerwomen in Transgender Community dot Org, they
write her nineteen eighty three ground breaking Words of a
Woman who Breeds Fire was the first book by Chinese
(07:39):
American lesbian. Her second, breathless Erotica, won the Firecracker Alternative
Book Award. Her third sparks Fly was pinned by her
alter ego, Eric Norton, a gay leather man.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Leather man, leatherman, I think you put a little too
much emphasis on leather, but like leather.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Man, yeah, go with it. Her writing has been collected
in over seven anthologies worldwide and been published in German,
Japanese and Italian. She also has published different news articles
or magazines and such, so she has tons of stuff
out there. And again we already know she has done
so many other things, including acting, which she debuted with
(08:20):
Paper Angels, an Asian American theater company, and she got
some accolades for her acting, and she definitely didn't hold
back in the theater world. After being cast as an
Asian maid who could read fortunes and wrinkle sheets, which,
by the way, what is this plot for another company,
she called them out for the stereotyping and that ended
up causing her to be fired, but she stood her ground,
(08:42):
saying this is ridiculously racist. I think they made her
do an accent too. She's like come on now, yeah,
come on now, and she got ostracized for that, but
she stood her ground, which we love to see. But
again that wasn't her only acting bits. You can see
her on different platforms as well. But again, like I said,
she has a documentary out there titled Nice Chinese Girls
(09:03):
Don't And it's kind of frames lesbian fashion and women
of God and like follows her stories around. And she
also has another one that does tell her story through
her poetry then her writings. So it's very cool. Another
add to the list, any Yeah, including all these books.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, I know a lot coming from this one.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Erotica might be a step up. That would have to
be RPG thirteen addition.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, hey, Sminty after Dark. Yeah, we've been pitching that
for years.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's true, it is true, it's time and among other things.
After the death of her friend one of her good friends,
Suey started her journey in bodybuilding. She actually won the
bronze medal in the nineteen eighty six Gay Games, which
I didn't know existed. Were at the twelfth Gay Games,
which is happening in Valencia right now this year, So
(09:56):
we're gonna have talk about that because I didn't know
that existed, which is amazing, but she won the bronze
for that, and then in nineteen ninety she actually won
gold in the games for women's physique and bodybuilding. If
you see pictures over your like, dang, yeah, she looked good.
She's built, she is cut. And among all of this,
she has, of course all kinds of accolades throughout her life,
(10:18):
including in twenty sixteen, she was given the Asian Pacific
Islander quer Women Transgender Communities Phoenix Award for her contributions
to San Francisco She's In twenty nineteen, she was one
of the twelve queer poets from the United States honored
in the digital exhibit at the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center,
which was titled A Day in the Life of a
Queer Asian Pacific America. And then the Lembda Literary Foundation
(10:41):
has listed her as one of the fifty most influential
lesbian and gay writers in the US. Of course, and
that's just a few of them. And of course, with
a poet as beautiful as her writing, we decided we
have to end it on a poem. So Anie and
I are going to recite her poem Without Love. Here
we go. I cannot do without love the way I
(11:04):
make myself do without food or sleep or sex. I
cannot do without love.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Sometimes I rummage through my papers, tensils of dreams, thoughts
from long ago. Want to throw everything out but can't.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Did my laundry, red doors, lessing on the stairs and
the sun, the one about a man and two women.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Last night in your arms, a whisper in my ear.
See how your heart beats hard like a hammer?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
What are you thinking about? Your so far away?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
How fun for breakfast? Steaming and rice bowls, snow heavy
on the trees like icing on a cake.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Your lover calls every night, demanding to know if I'm
still here, and why the hell am I still here?
I cannot do without love. I love good poems. Yeah,
we're gonna have to come back and read some of
her iconic works. I didn't add this, but in nineteen
eighty eight she came out as a leather woman and
has some books on that as well. So and she said,
(11:59):
I believe some keynote speaking about this converse, like what
this life is about? What that life? Because I was like,
what is this? Very cool?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah? Quite a catalog, a lot of accomplishments, yes, and
a lot to learn, plus a poem. It's been a
long time since we've recited a poem. I know, that
was nice.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Gotta do more.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yes, yes, well listeners. If you have any thoughts about
this episode or who we should be talking about next,
please let us know. You can email us at Hello
at Stuffmenever Told You dot com. You can also find
us on Blue Sky Moms a podcast, our Instagram and
TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You for us on YouTube.
We have some merchandise accom Bureau, and we have a
buck you can get where you get your books Thinks.
(12:40):
It's always to our super producer Chandler and our executive
producer Maya.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Thank you and.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Thanks to you for listening Stuff I'll Never Told You
struction by heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
NA three and one and a
Speaker 1 (13:01):
One year at
Hey, this is Annie and Smantha. I'm welcome to stuff
we never told your production. I hurried here.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And we are sliding into Pride Month for activists around
the world with a lesbian icon legend, y'all, and we
are talking about Kitty Sue. I'm gonna try to say
this name correct, y'all. Sue. I have a little of
a hard time with the ta, but yes, t s
U I And she is, as I said, a lesbian
icon who is also a writer, author, actor, poet, and bodybuilder.
(00:40):
She's also been on TV like she actually has a
whole documentary about her, which I feel like, you know,
happens a lot. We talk about these amazing people and
they're like, yeah, let's record her life. Yes, as they should.
But anyway, coming back, So, she was born in Hong
Kong and her parents actually left her under the care
of her grandmother to build a better life for them
(01:00):
and her in London. So at the age of five,
she finally went to live with them in London, and
it was a decade later that she would move with
her family to the US, to San Francisco specifically, and
in an interview with Elders Project with Columbia university. She
talks a bit about her educational experience and her growing
up and she says this, I had an English education.
(01:24):
I had a British education. We had to I mean,
math wasn't math, it was arithmetic, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, physics, chemistry,
Latin for two years. So when I got here and
it was all this multiple choice true falls. I mean
my kindergarten, we already write essays, so we had to
draw maps. And then she talks about her growing up
(01:44):
with hippie friends. So I love her like jumping about.
So this interview is very candid from her. It is
like a podcast interview, so it is recorded, and when
she's speaking about these things, she's going down memory lane,
and she has so many stories that she kind of
jumps so in her story, I do the same thing.
But if you've lived your life as iconically as she has,
(02:06):
I think you have so many tales to tell. But
she does jump around. But she does talk about how
even in like middle school, coming into the US, she
kind of got into a hippie crowd that her family
did not love. So she talks a lot about her
childhood and teenage years, which she again a mess that
she was a bit of a rebel, getting involved in
drugs and partying, but also awakening into who she is.
(02:30):
She talked about her experience watching protests that were occurring
in the night sixties seventies, so at like Berkeley, in
the different schools in San Francisco in California, and how
just watching these things she knew she was going to
these same schools. She saw the power behind these student strikes.
And at the same time she also talked about her
coming out. So this is from that same interview. I
(02:52):
took communications. It was in that department that we took
a class with Sally Miller Gearhart, and apparently, I believe
she's a pretty big lesbian con who tenured. Was one
of the first people lesbians two tenure. And it was
in this class. I mean, Sally Gearhart was just the
force of nature. She was an open lesbian. She was
the first who got tenured ever, I mean the first.
(03:13):
It was in her class that I came out. I
was bisexual for about one minute and then she goes yes,
and then my career in lesbianism began. I think. In
her conversation and talking about this, she talks about how
she considered herself bisexual because he heaps easier than saying lesbian,
but kind of realized, no, I never was. I was
always attracted to women, so I can't really claim that.
(03:33):
But in that moment, that was her coming out slowly
baby steps for her. So in another article written about her,
she talks about how it was difficult for her to
come out at first. So this is from Beijing Times
dot Com. In nineteen seventy three, at the tender age
of twenty one, at Kitty Suey, a creative writing student
at San Francisco State University, made the brave decision to
(03:56):
publicly identify as a lesbian. This revelation was not greeted
with acceptance from her family, friends, or the Chinese American
community she was a part of as a political activist. Instead,
she found herself isolated and rejected, so she made sure
that she came out. I think it was one of
those moments that she really kind of got the titleist
the first in her time to come out openly as
(04:18):
a lesbian, as a Chinese American, So it was a
pretty big deal, especially if you understand Chinese culture today
even and how that can be dangerous in doing so
and then if her family were a part of those
old school traditions, which they were, they're not very accepting
of it. But with all that, she was able to
find a group of people who not only accepted her,
(04:38):
but understood her as well. She would soon begin the
Asian American women's performance group Unbound Feet. And here's a
bit more from her interview. It was probably mid to
late nineteen seventies that a few of us came together.
We were thinking about forming a women's group, an Asian
women's group, and there were enough people, and then Unbound
Feet happened. It was the first Chinese American women's performance
(05:02):
group in the Bay Area. We started in nineteen seventy nine,
and we drew large crowds. I think API women were
drawn to it because of who we are, but fairly
soon they realized there were a lot of APIs out there,
so it began to be a place where we could
find friends and also date. So Unbound Feet we were
together from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty one, and
(05:22):
API Asian Pacific Islanders, y'all didn't no. And she continues
talking about some of her favorite memories. She says to
be with a group of Asian lesbians, Asian women, to
be able to read our own stuff, to work on
our own stuff, to do some things together, and then
to be on stage. We do completely different things. We
had dialogues, we had monologues, we had poetry, Kenyon Sam
(05:44):
did commercial parodies. So then the groups of APIs then
started growing, and we started a group called Asian Sisters,
and there were a few other groups in our groups
with different names and different people. We started having these
wonderful meetings in the park. I love that. I love
of reminiscing about college times when you just formed groups
like you could just do this and find commaderie in
(06:06):
such a way that really built your background, really built
who you were as an adult, and really taught you
who you were as an adult. Yes, even if it's
a Christian group that I would run away from later.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
On, it's a transformative time and time of learning.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Sure. Yes. So in her conversation, she talks about how
for a while she thought she was alone and there
were no other Asian lesbians out there, but realizing through
these groups that there were those who understood her, but
it wasn't managed that she really felt isolated and she
would just clean to her books and to the authors
(06:42):
to feel that less isolated. And she even talked about
the fact that as an Asian woman, it was still
hard to find canarderie because even these books were written
a lot of by white people, and it wasn't the
same for her, especially with her immigrant background, coming from
one area to another, living with her grandmother in Hong Kong,
which she did talk about as pretty formative, and how
her grandmother was her mother and father for so long
(07:05):
that she missed that, but she learned from her. So
her love of writing in books would soon lead to
her writing her first book titled Words of a Woman
who Breaths Fire, which I love that title.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
It's a great title, that's a powerful.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Title, which is considered one of the first known Chinese
American lesbian books out there. But of course this isn't
her only works. No, this is a little bit from
Asian Pacific Islander queerwomen in Transgender Community dot Org, they
write her nineteen eighty three ground breaking Words of a
Woman who Breeds Fire was the first book by Chinese
(07:39):
American lesbian. Her second, breathless Erotica, won the Firecracker Alternative
Book Award. Her third sparks Fly was pinned by her
alter ego, Eric Norton, a gay leather man.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Leather man, leatherman, I think you put a little too
much emphasis on leather, but like leather.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Man, yeah, go with it. Her writing has been collected
in over seven anthologies worldwide and been published in German,
Japanese and Italian. She also has published different news articles
or magazines and such, so she has tons of stuff
out there. And again we already know she has done
so many other things, including acting, which she debuted with
(08:20):
Paper Angels, an Asian American theater company, and she got
some accolades for her acting, and she definitely didn't hold
back in the theater world. After being cast as an
Asian maid who could read fortunes and wrinkle sheets, which,
by the way, what is this plot for another company,
she called them out for the stereotyping and that ended
up causing her to be fired, but she stood her ground,
(08:42):
saying this is ridiculously racist. I think they made her
do an accent too. She's like come on now, yeah,
come on now, and she got ostracized for that, but
she stood her ground, which we love to see. But
again that wasn't her only acting bits. You can see
her on different platforms as well. But again, like I said,
she has a documentary out there titled Nice Chinese Girls
(09:03):
Don't And it's kind of frames lesbian fashion and women
of God and like follows her stories around. And she
also has another one that does tell her story through
her poetry then her writings. So it's very cool. Another
add to the list, any Yeah, including all these books.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, I know a lot coming from this one.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Erotica might be a step up. That would have to
be RPG thirteen addition.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, hey, Sminty after Dark. Yeah, we've been pitching that
for years.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's true, it is true, it's time and among other things.
After the death of her friend one of her good friends,
Suey started her journey in bodybuilding. She actually won the
bronze medal in the nineteen eighty six Gay Games, which
I didn't know existed. Were at the twelfth Gay Games,
which is happening in Valencia right now this year, So
(09:56):
we're gonna have talk about that because I didn't know
that existed, which is amazing, but she won the bronze
for that, and then in nineteen ninety she actually won
gold in the games for women's physique and bodybuilding. If
you see pictures over your like, dang, yeah, she looked good.
She's built, she is cut. And among all of this,
she has, of course all kinds of accolades throughout her life,
(10:18):
including in twenty sixteen, she was given the Asian Pacific
Islander quer Women Transgender Communities Phoenix Award for her contributions
to San Francisco She's In twenty nineteen, she was one
of the twelve queer poets from the United States honored
in the digital exhibit at the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center,
which was titled A Day in the Life of a
Queer Asian Pacific America. And then the Lembda Literary Foundation
(10:41):
has listed her as one of the fifty most influential
lesbian and gay writers in the US. Of course, and
that's just a few of them. And of course, with
a poet as beautiful as her writing, we decided we
have to end it on a poem. So Anie and
I are going to recite her poem Without Love. Here
we go. I cannot do without love the way I
(11:04):
make myself do without food or sleep or sex. I
cannot do without love.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Sometimes I rummage through my papers, tensils of dreams, thoughts
from long ago. Want to throw everything out but can't.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Did my laundry, red doors, lessing on the stairs and
the sun, the one about a man and two women.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Last night in your arms, a whisper in my ear.
See how your heart beats hard like a hammer?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
What are you thinking about? Your so far away?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
How fun for breakfast? Steaming and rice bowls, snow heavy
on the trees like icing on a cake.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Your lover calls every night, demanding to know if I'm
still here, and why the hell am I still here?
I cannot do without love. I love good poems. Yeah,
we're gonna have to come back and read some of
her iconic works. I didn't add this, but in nineteen
eighty eight she came out as a leather woman and
has some books on that as well. So and she said,
(11:59):
I believe some keynote speaking about this converse, like what
this life is about? What that life? Because I was like,
what is this? Very cool?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah? Quite a catalog, a lot of accomplishments, yes, and
a lot to learn, plus a poem. It's been a
long time since we've recited a poem. I know, that
was nice.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Gotta do more.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yes, yes, well listeners. If you have any thoughts about
this episode or who we should be talking about next,
please let us know. You can email us at Hello
at Stuffmenever Told You dot com. You can also find
us on Blue Sky Moms a podcast, our Instagram and
TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You for us on YouTube.
We have some merchandise accom Bureau, and we have a
buck you can get where you get your books Thinks.
(12:40):
It's always to our super producer Chandler and our executive
producer Maya.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Thank you and.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Thanks to you for listening Stuff I'll Never Told You
struction by heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
NA three and one and a
Speaker 1 (13:01):
One year at
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Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.