ADHD, Kink and Sex with Cate Osborn

Podcaster, certified sex educator, and wearer of many hats Cate Osborn opens up about ADHD and how it intersects with sex and kink (and the ableism embedded in a majority of our sex education). Bonus discussion of DND.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
Never told you protection of I Heeart Radio, and we
are so thrilled today to be joined by podcaster extraordinaire
generally awesome human who does a lot of amazing things,

(00:27):
Kate Osborne. Thank you so much for joining us. Hello,
thanks for having extraordinaire right off the bat, like, wow,
right now you've only got the pressure. The pressure is on.
Now sound smart. It's gonna be great. Oh that's okay, No,
not on this podcast. You'll probably sound smart no matter what.
But your your biography is pretty impressive in itself, so yeah,

(00:50):
I'm sure you're going to meet Those bars are low
any and I don't put them very high for ourselves,
so everybody else is impressive. I also like that impressive
is a really fan see way of saying makes absolutely
no sense, but I like I like that. I'm just
saying it's impressive. You know, that's a good way, because
I feel like a lot of times interesting takes that
place where you're like, that's interesting in what you mean

(01:11):
is I don't know what to do with what is happening.
Impressive is a nicer way, right, It's good it's good. Yeah,
I agree. I agree. So could you introduce yourself to
our listeners. Yeah. So my name is Kate. I go
by Katia Saurus on the social media's um and. I
am a d h D advocate. I'm a neurodivergent content

(01:34):
creator and educator um and. I am a certified sex
educator with a special interest in neurodivergency and the intersections
of like sex and intimacy and a d h D
and autism and everything that kind of falls under the
neurodivergent umbrella. Um and. Also, I play a lot of
dungeons and dragons, but that it's not what we're here

(01:56):
to talk about today with Sometimes I just feel like
I have to say it, like legally, I have to
be like Also, that's part of what I think. I
think it's it's a good preface and it should be
in the introduction, just because we know we're going to
go down this road between Annie's love war and my own,
like what it's gonna go down, that's a good good preface, agreed, Agreed,

(02:16):
um And I mean just in that bio, I've already
have so many questions and things I want to follow,
but I do want to have kind of get this
NERD talk out of the way in Samantha's like a
wonderful supportive co host who lets me do this. Um.
So I was recently on your podcast and we just
really hit it off. We kind of discovered were like

(02:38):
the same person and someone yea in several many ways. Yes.
So first of all, can you tell people about your podcasts? Yeah,
So I have a podcast. It's called Katie and Eric's
Infinite Quest in a d h D Adventure, which is
a very long title. It's fine, um, but we talked
about life with a d h D and depression and
navigating life is nerrow divergent adults. Um. But we also

(03:00):
play D and D on podcast sometimes. UM. And so
one of the things that kind of came out of
this it was it started out as a joke. It
was a joke episode, UM. But what came out of
this was a lot of really important conversations about accessibility
and inclusivity in like tabletop role playing games, um, which
is sort of like the other arm of what I do.
So I'm a certified sex educator. I talked about like

(03:21):
NERD divergent relationships, but I also go to a lot
of conventions and I go and do a lot of
spaces and I say, hey, let's make the gaming table
more welcoming for everybody. And so it's sort of like
my very passionate about it. Yes, and that's actually how
you and I met, even though we kind of didn't
realize we had met. Yeah, Like I was like, oh, yes,

(03:42):
we all right. I'm great. I'm terrible with remembering people's
names because I can't picture stuff in my head and
so I can't remember faces very well. Uh, And so
I was like, oh, yeah, we've we've met several times.
That's really embarrassing, but it's fine. That's not good. I
think we were sitting next to each other. So we
were on this a panel at Dragon Con last year.
I think it was Women in Digital Media. I was

(04:04):
so nervous. It was at seven pm on a Sunday,
and I was like, I can barely remember what happened,
except that you told me about that turkey fact I did,
and you say, because you're talking about your your food,
and then I was just like, hey, I have a
I have a fun food fact. And that's because that's
how to make friends, as I just info dump with
people until they like me, So that's my strategy. Well

(04:25):
it worked, yes, yes, So if you don't mind me
asking before we get into kind of more serious stuff, Well,
this could be serious. How did you get into D
and D? Oh man, it's it's not it's not a
very interesting story. But my dad played DN d UM
and Uh. He was always trying to get me into
D and D. And he was like, you're perfect for it,

(04:47):
like you're a theater kid. You literally work in an
improv theater. Like it's just improv but with math. And
that was the part that I always kind of like
scared me because I'm terrible at math. Um, I actually
have dis calculia, which also is impossible to say. I
hate that word. Um, but I'm I'm awful at math
and I have like a lot of like math anxiety.
And so I was always scared to play D N

(05:08):
d UM. And then when my dad passed away, a
friend of his from college was like, hey, I've had
this box of your dad's stuff in my basement for years,
Like do you want it? I was like sure, And
it was like all of my dad's old DN D
books from like when he had been in college. Um,
and so I inherited like my dad's old dn D
books and his like character sheets and all of this stuff,

(05:29):
and I just felt like really close to my dad. Um.
And so I started kind of getting into T TRPT.
But fun fact, the first T t RPD I ever
played was actually not dn D. It was Star Wars
Edge of the Empire. It was the first yeah, which
was it was the first RPG that I I ever played. Um.
And then I got into D n D through that
because I was like, Okay, well this isn't like so bad,

(05:50):
Like there's a little math, but it's all right. Um.
And then I found out that there's like D and
D Beyond exist and I'll just like do the math
for you. And I was like, oh cool, I can
play this game now. So that's that's my story. Yeah,
that's a good one. I mean, I also was intimidated
by it because I thought I just thought it was
so complicated. It was so like all these rule books

(06:12):
and I just thought, you know, I've come a long
way since then. But I was like, that is I'm
going to come in and these dude bros Are gonna
tell me like you don't know what you're doing. And
then I'm gonna walk away, which is probably what's going
to happen. But then I had a friend he was
really into it, and he I was struggling with PTSD
and he said, like, this would be a good way

(06:34):
for you to to deal with some of that. And
also I was trying to write the ending of this
book and I saw I was like, if I put
her in there, maybe I can figure out the ending.
But we've talked about that a lot on this show
about how you can use these tabletop games. Now it's
a type of therapy, but as a way to sort
of work through things. Um, and it did it, even

(06:57):
though the ending of the book turned out to not
be Now, I run games and I have for a
long time, and I feel like I'm happy to see
that that's diversifying and more people are getting into it,
because I do think there is an intimidation factor around
the numbers and the rules. Yeah, absolutely, but I think
like that's one of the things that I get really

(07:17):
excited about is that like you don't have to, like
you don't, you don't have to you know, you don't
have to use in conference if you don't want to,
Like you don't I have to do the spell. I
don't believe that anybody in the world he uses spell components.
I'm sure there's some like, but I just like, I've
never played at other's just like, yeah, I just cast
a spell whatever, it's fine. Like I'm just like all right,
you know. So it's like I think, like it's it's

(07:37):
cool because they're very clear upfront. It's like it's meant
to be adaptable, it's meant to be changeable. It's like
play to have fun. And so I think that that's
like I've been really lucky in that way that I've
I've never run well, I've read into a few jerks,
but not not too many. Yeah. Same, I feel like
I was really lucky. My first game master, Junge Semester,
he he was very like he knew rules, but he

(08:00):
was also flexible, like he didn't want that to slow
down the game. He didn't want it to become a
miserable like whoa on this page. I have run into
some jerks, but usually my experience has been pretty good,
which makes me happy that you're doing a great job.
I just want you to know I'm listening. No, I'm
just thinking that it really is a big difference, no

(08:21):
matter what you're in, but especially when it's a male
dominated area light table top and as well as D
and D. For the longest time, there was no conversation
about women being more involved and non binary posts being
more involved and being intersectional in itself, because we know
that when it comes to anything, when it comes to
passion and love, if intersectionality is not a part of it,
then it kind of does kill off so many people's

(08:42):
spirits to even want to be a part of that,
and having people like you who are involved, you and Annie,
but also taking the reins to show and navigate and
mentor people, that's a big deal. And I think it's
amazing this conversation, especially to be able to be like,
you know, it's getting better. We've had experiences, but we're
making it different and that's a huge part of growing

(09:03):
um in just ourselves and just also something that your
father loved. Oh my god, that's even more amazing than
you'll be able to expand upon that. I feel like
I want to applaud for that. That was really good.
That was that was I mean, that's like, even though
I have no understanding about casting spells and numbers, I

(09:24):
had no idea math was a part of those. I
was like, I know it's a lot about good storytelling
and almost improv and acting that I don't know what
I'm not good at. So that's my own part, but like, wow,
this is such a depth that I don't know, So
it's kind of fun to watch. It is funt Actually
it is fun to watch people loving it and then
trying to figure out what is happening. It's a mystery
of itself. For me, I always say it's a lot

(09:46):
of project management. It's a whole thing. And Samantha's she
wants to come in and sort of observe as we play,
almost as if she's like making a documentary about look
at these nerds. I want to do as if I'm
the not the announcer, commentator, as of a sport. I
want to come in as that of not knowing anything.
I think it's the amazing and fascinating and hoous because

(10:09):
I am. I do have a lot of questions. I'm
going to have a lot of questions. That's great, uh,
speaking of podcasts, because that was my podcast idea. I
love that you have made D and D a part
of it. So what came first the D N D
or the d n D in the podcast or the podcast,
and they're like, let's do some D and D oh gosh, okay.
So I have an answer for this, and I promise

(10:30):
it will sound like an answer at the end. It's
not going to sound like an answer at the start,
but this is my answer. So one of the things
so it's it's a podcast about a d h D,
it's a podcast about being neurodivergent UM. And one of
the things that is very common UM in the neurodivergion,
especially like a d h D experience, is that we're
told our whole life that we have to choose, that

(10:52):
we have to pick, that we have to like pick
the career, pick the hobby, pick the focus, or pick whatever.
But a very very common theme for many people with
a d h D is that it's extremely difficult for
us to choose, or like, we choose crochet for two weeks,
and then the dopamine wears off and then we never
you know, crochet again. But the next week we're gonna

(11:13):
try watercolors, and then the next week after that we're
going to learn how to play the trumpet, and then
the next week after that, and the next week after that,
and that has been my entire life, Like that has
been the experience of of my entire adult life. And
being told that that's wrong, and being told that that's bad,
and being told that there's something like fundamentally flawed about
living your life like that, and I just so fundamentally

(11:37):
disagree because I think that one of the beauties of
the world. One of the most extraordinary things about life
is that you can just wake up one day and
be like, I'm gonna get really into art history this month,
and then next month, you know, get really into cooking
or whatever. But all of those experiences add up. All

(11:58):
of those experiences give you something, teach you something, you
learn something, you take something away from that experience. Even
if you you know, get really into art history and
then you never do it again. When you get really
into movies, you still know a little bit of about composition.
And when you know a little bit about movies, then
when you start, you know, having a podcast, then you
know a little bit about editing, you know, and it compounds.

(12:18):
And so when we when we started making the podcast,
one of the things that was really important to us
was that we just wanted to authentically represent the experience
of living with a d H D, And so for
us and for me, d n D is part of it,
like dn D is one of my passions. It's certainly
not the only passion that I have, but it's one

(12:40):
of them. Um. And the feedback that we got, like
the first episode was very like silly. It was a
one off, like special episode. And then the internet. We
broke the internet, um and and then people just said,
it's so cool to not only hear people have these
experiences like we have, but also play D and D
like us, where we get distracted, there are awkward pauses,

(13:02):
we started, we stumble, we we get off track. We
spend twenty five minutes trying to unlock an unlocked door.
That's a real thing that happened one time because we
literally just didn't hear the d M say the door
was unlocked. So it's less about the D and D,
I think, and more about just authentically representing the experience
of living as ourselves and being very unapologetic about that.

(13:25):
But now people do costplay as me, and that's weird.
So that's amazing, that's awesome. You know, you hit on

(13:47):
something that Annie and I often talk about when it
comes to people asking us about podcasting and how do
we do it and what do we focus on is
like we think that our listeners, um and our fan
base like it when we're real, when we're honest, and
when we're authentic, and that that when they can connect,
they have a moment of like these are my friends,
they say, see me, even though I might we might

(14:09):
not know their specific situation, but because we can, they
can relate to well our situation that they hear from
the first time. Oh my gosh, yeah that's me. This
is amazing and I love that. Has that been you
experience with podcasting? Yeah, I mean absolutely. Um so, like
the podcast started out because so so my podcast partner,
his name is Eric, and Eric is a TikTok or

(14:30):
the same way that I'm in TikToker. And in August
two years ago, I reached out and I sent him
a message and I said, the laws of a d
H D TikTok dictate that we must do a collap
and he was like, great, we should. We should do
a collapse sometime and so we exchanged phone numbers with
the intention of doing one sixties second video together. So

(14:51):
I called him the first night we talked for three
and a half hours the second night, and we're like, oh,
we forgot to talk about the video. The second night,
I called him back, we talked for four and a
half hours, still didn't talk about the video. Third night.
Like this went on for like a week and a half,
but we would just called me like, yeah, we're totally
going to talk about the video, and then we would
just talk for hours about everything. And so at some
point on a TikTok live that I was doing, I

(15:13):
said I told that story and I was like, oh
my gosh, and somebody in the comments and I still
wish I wish I knew who they were because they
changed my life forever. But they said I would give
anything to listen to that conversation, like how much money
do you want? And I kind of jokingly said that's eric.
I was like, apparently people think we have something to say,
and we're like, well, we're millennials. Do you want to

(15:35):
make a podcast? And then the next thing we knew
we were like a top fifty mental health podcast and
we were one of the only podcasts specifically, not specifically,
but tangentially talking about a d h D and sex
and intimacy in particular like a D H D and
like kink and and that kind of stuff. Um. And
so it just its spiraled so quickly, but it absolutely

(15:57):
spiraled out of the fact that the fee fact we
kept hearing was I've never heard anybody talk like me.
I've never heard anybody organize their ideas like me. I've
always been told that I talked too faster, I talked
too round about or whatever, um, And we're like, yeah,
we're not going to edit it that much. Like well,
this kind of like Annie knows she was on the podcast,
it's a it's a mess, um, but like that's but

(16:19):
that's kind of like what we stand for. It is
just sort of very authentically like being yourselves and sometimes
having hard conversations and sometimes having tough conversations. But sometimes
she's being like, you want to talk about cheese, like
you know, and and that's okay too. I think there,
I think there's validity and all of that agreed. And
Samantha knows. After I was on on your show, I

(16:39):
was like, oh god, I've never even answered any of
her questions because I got distracted. That's the beauty of it,
I think, you know, it's just like your answer is
your answer. Even if the answer isn't the answer specifically,
it's still an answer. Yeah. We talked about the phrase
that I was told because of the way I would

(17:00):
speak when people would ask me questions. It's like I
was chasing rabbits, because it'd be like me hopping all
over the place trying to get to my point and
never getting there. So I was like, yeah, that's about right.
I get that. I understand that to my soul. Yes. Uh, well,
do you mind talking about your experience with a d

(17:23):
h D, how it's impacted your life, diagnosis, all that stuff. Yeah? Sure. Um,
so I was actually diagnosed very late. Um. I was
diagnosed the day before my thirtieth birthday, which was very interesting.
But my diagnosis story is a little bit different than
a lot of people is because Um, I actually had
a no veryan tortion UM zero out of ten do

(17:44):
not recommend. I almost died, um. But they ultimately had
to remove my I have to check left to my left,
and I always forget my leftoverary, and so when they
removed my ovary, it's set off a hormonal shift that
was so profound owned that it really exacerbated my underlying
a d h D. And so when I went to

(18:05):
go get kind of tested to sort of figure out
what was going on, because honestly, I thought I had
early onset dementia. I had no idea that I had
a d h D at all. I was just like,
Oh my God, like what's going on. I'm going crazy,
like what's happening? Um. I got really lucky in that
my doctor was very informed about a d h D
in in women, um, and so she basically was just like, yeah,
you're a d h D is really linked to your hormones.

(18:27):
And I said what uh, and like yeah. And so
then I started doing research, and I started doing more
research and more research, and I started realizing that there
were all of these places and all of these like
intersections of a d h D that nobody talks about
and and nobody highlights or anything. Like. There was a
study general I always bring this up on interviews because

(18:48):
I'm just like, I'm so heated about it. Um. But
there's a study then recently where they where they looked
at a bunch of like a fab people, um, and
they tested them for a d h D. But they
tested them for a d h D at different points
in their month Leae cycles, and depending on where they
were in their cycle, the hormonal shift was so significant
that some people would test like essentially positive for a

(19:10):
d h D. That's not the term, but whatever. They
would test like, yes, you have a d h D.
But then at other points of the month they wouldn't
because their hormones were like in check enough to where
they didn't have like the same issues. And so I
realized that there's like this massively underserved population of people
who don't know like how profoundly things are are related.

(19:33):
And then sort of even more out of that as
I started learning more about like a d h D
and how it affects just life, because there's there's this
misnomber there's like the strange stereotype I guess about a
d h D that it's like a d h D
is for work, it's for school, it's you forget to
answer emails, you you don't pay attention in class or whatever.
But it's like, no, if you have a d h D,
it affects every single moment of your day, from waking

(19:55):
up to going to bed, like literally like sleep is
affected by a d h D. Falling asleep as affected
by a d h d um. And the more I learned,
kind of the more angry I got, because I was like,
first off, how was it? How did how did they
miss this in me for thirty years? And it's because
I was a high achiever. I was great at school.
I'm academically very talented, and so I realized there were

(20:17):
just like so many people out there who were struggling
and feeling like they were broken and feeling like they
were screw ups and that they couldn't do anything right
and like, oh, you're so good at school, but why
is your room a mess? Like that kind of narrative
over and over and over, and I said I I
want to talk about this, and then two million people
were like, Okay, agreed, let's go. Agreed. That's amazing because

(20:43):
as you're saying all this is there's a moment. But
the way it collects about the conversation about pregnancy fog
And I'm wondering how that is connected to a d
h D because I don't hear much about that literally,
just kind of a comedic ha women in pregnancy kind
of dismissive conversation when an actual maybe it's the underlying
diagnosis and or yeah, just a hormonal shift that we

(21:05):
don't talk enough about, which they do talk about hormones,
and of course everything is blamed on hormones and it
is to blame, but we don't talk about the deeper
net level, the misdiagnosis um and on our show repeatedly,
we've had these conversations when it comes to diagnosis and
women and how it is under diagnosed because just like you,
it's all over the place where it's like, oh, but

(21:26):
you're you're functioning. Oh, you're fine on this level, so
there must be nothing wrong with you other than you're
just high strung, you're just a woman type of conversation,
and or you are a fab as you were talking
about and being very dismissive of those conversations. Since your
discovery of this, how has this impacted your life? Oh
my god, I mean it completely changed my life forever.

(21:47):
Like this is now my job, you know, Like that's
like first off, like I literally talked about a d
h D for my job, which is strange. I did
not think I have like two master's degrees in Shakespeare.
This is not supposed to be my wife. Um. I
was supposed to be teaching about Romeo and Juliet and
some like dusty college library somewhere. But I mean, I
think more than anything, what what has happened is that

(22:10):
I've I've just learned a lot, and I've realized how
necessary these conversations are. And I realized there's nothing worse
than somebody going on a podcast and be like, yeah,
this is a really important conversation to have because it's like,
but it is, you know, but it absolutely is. UM.
And as I started talking more and educating more and
advocating more, UM, I kept just hearing the same stories

(22:32):
over and over again, misdiagnosis, underdiagnosis, late diagnosis, UM, you know,
like all of these different things, and just realizing how
profoundly it affects people and how profoundly difficult it is
to navigate life when you're struggling with the bare minimums.
But being told that there's no reason you should be
struggling with the bare minimums. That it should be easy

(22:53):
to do your dishes, it should be easy to do
your laundry, it should be easy to have your house
should be immaculate, and your children should be fed, you know,
like that kind of thing, um. And in reality, it
is extremely difficult for a lot of people, and then
even more sort of like recently and immediately, the pandemic
broke a lot of people's systems. It broke down a

(23:15):
lot of people's structures. The safety nets and and the
and the things that they had in place to sort
of support themselves throughout the day. Those all went away,
and a lot of people still are not recovered from
that and and are still like sort of like, oh
my gosh, like I do have a d h D.
Or I have been autistic this entire time, and I
had no idea, you know, that kind of thing. And

(23:36):
so there's been just like I think, a profound shift
in my own understanding of of neurodivergency and how it
affects me in my life, which I don't actually think
was the answer to the question that you asked at all,
But I just started talking because I panicked. So there
you go. That was exactly because it is that you
talked about the fact that it kind of yes to

(24:00):
really change your life, because if became your job obviously
changed your life as you started to understand yourself and
your own um conversations in your mind or lack of conversations,
Are you know, weary of conversations, whatever it may be,
but it makes more sense, and there is that aha
moment of like, oh, oh my god, this explains so
much when you've been beating yourself up thinking that you

(24:21):
were doing something wrong. Yeah, exactly, I mean, and especially
you know, like out of the sort of a d
h D stuff came the fact that I went back
to school and I became a certified sex educator. UM.
And that was honestly like a really sort of pivotal
moment for me and like a very enlightening moment for me,
because I had spent a really long time thinking that
I was just broken, like I was just sex broken,

(24:43):
Like sex was just this weird, amalgamous thing that like
I wasn't good at it. I didn't understand it, and
I didn't understand my body and my brain and like
they're they very rarely connect. Like I sort of live
in my head and I have like this like body
attached like inconveniently so UM and realizing that a lot
of that just has to do with my nerro divergency.

(25:04):
It has to do with with the physical way that
my brain interprets information and takes in stimulus and that
kind of stuff. UM, I was honestly, like I mean
kind of like vulnerably. I was really able to release
a lot of like the shame and guilt that I
that I had around like sex and intimacy because I
was like, oh, I'm not a bad person because I

(25:25):
get bored during sex, like that's my a d H D.
Like I'm not a creepy weirdo because I I'm really
into kink, Like no, kink is a totally valid and
beautiful and wonderful thing that is a tool that a
lot of people who require like additional stimulus like during
intimacy use, you know. And so it really I think
has been a very quick, like fast paced journey. UM,

(25:49):
but it's it's been really incredible, like realizing like how
much self acceptance is wrapped up in just understanding how
your brain works and why your brain it's the way
way it does. And that's been that's been extremely powerful.

(26:17):
We've heard from so many listeners who have had the
same a similar experience where they're like, I, when I
got the diagnosis, it's just just like I could breathe again,
like I understood, um, and how powerful that was. And
I know from the conversation you and I had you
have a really active listenership and you're you're very vulnerable
on your show, which is something that I love. We've

(26:38):
also talked about how like taking care of yourself self
care is also important and kind of drawing that kind
of like what am I doing for the audience and
what is good for me? But through that, uh, you
told me like you have sort of become this expert,
and we talked about kind of the danger of that
term and the responsibility of that term. But around a
d h D and sex, and you already kind of

(26:59):
touched on some of this stuff, but um, could you
expound on on that a bit more? Yeah, So there's
just now uh, studies coming out that that specifically deal
with like a d h D and intimacy. Um. And
one of the things that I always like to clarify
write off the bat is like what I say a
d h D and sex, what I actually mean is
a d h D and relationships. I'm not talking about

(27:20):
like penis in vagina sex. I'm just talking about like
relationships as a whole. But sex is for some people
part of that. But so about forty to fifty of
people with a d h D struggle with sex and
intimacy and relationships UM. For a lot of people, that
looks like struggles like during like the sex act itself. UM.

(27:42):
A lot of people struggle with like arousal and orgasm.
A lot of people struggle with UM just like fundamentally
like turning their brain off and getting in the mood. UM.
Even more than that about depending on the study that
you read, between ninety and ninety nine percent of people
with a d h D experienced something called rejection sensitivity UM,

(28:06):
which is fundamentally just a very like shorthanded term for
like the the huge amount of trauma that many neurodivergent
people just live with in their own life, Like kids
with a d h D experience twenty thousand more negative
messages about themselves than kids without a d h D UM.
And so at some point you start to get a
little sensitive to like, oh, am I doing something wrong?

(28:27):
Am I doing something bad? But that carries over, that
doesn't just magically disappear, you know, on your eighteenth birthday. UM.
And so a lot of people with a d h
D and other neurodivergency struggle in relationships because of like
this this host of issues in terms of things like
rejection sensitivity and you know, like I said earlier, focusing
during sex and and feeling like, you know, like they

(28:48):
they're doing something fundamentally wrong in their relationships. UM. And
just the more that I learned about that, and the
more that I got really just invested in in how
intimacy works in neurodivergent relationships. Again, I just realized that
there weren't a lot of conversations being had. Um. And
even more than that, the conversations that we're being had.

(29:09):
This is like a sidebar. I'm sorry, I just realized
that I'm I'm chasing the rabbit, Samantha, That's what I'm doing.
Keep going. But so much sex education, the sex education
that exists, if it exists at all, UM, is absolutely
predicated on the notion that everybody involved is neurotypical. Is
that they don't have problems with directtion sensitivity. They're not

(29:32):
saying yes when they actually mean no because they're terrified
that they're going to lose their partner. Um. You know,
they're they're able to remember conversations the same way. UM.
You know, like there's so many discussions that are specific
to neurodivergent people. UM. But those conversations in sex said,
like they're not being head, They're just saying, everybody here is,

(29:52):
you know, thinks the same way and feels the same
way and acts the same way, and that's not true.
And that's not and that's not even true about like
neuro typical people as well, like whether or not you
have a d h D, like you can have two
very different understandings of what the word, you know, like
intimacy means, or closeness means, or quality time means. This

(30:13):
isn't like just a special a d H day thing, um.
And So the more that I learned in them, and
the more that I sort of started working towards educating
like in that capacity, the more that I just realized, like, Okay, well,
if nobody's going to have a conversation that I guess
it'll be me, you know. And so like I've been
really lucky is that there there is a really big
push right now for a lot of diversity and a

(30:36):
lot of inclusivity and a lot of accessibility in sex
ed um, But so many neurodivergent and disabled people are
just infantilized or or de sexualized entirely. And it's like, oh,
you're autistic. That's so cute that you have a boyfriend,
and it's like no, like I'm an adult, like you know,

(30:56):
and so yeah, like there's just there's just so many
issues that I always getting really stressed out when somebody
else like talk about that more because I'm like, I
don't even there's so much. It's so much, and it's
so big, and it's so much all the time. Oh
my god. Yes, agreed. Uh, And I think that, first
of all, it's great that you're doing that because I
think this sex education is really deplorable in this country

(31:18):
and it's harmed a lot of people. Um, And I'm
glad to see that it's improving, but it's still got
so far to go. And it's true, like we don't
hear about that, And like you said earlier, I feel
like a lot of people's understanding of a d h D,
when they don't know too much about it, is based
on like work and you know, school or whatever, but

(31:39):
not all these personal aspects. Um. Yeah, So I'm glad
that these conversations are happening, and like, as you say,
it makes so much sense to me. Yeah. Well, and
and even more than that too, there's a lot of
just strangely incorrect information that lives out there, Like I
still hear like every day, Like the fact that I

(31:59):
hear about this every day is upsetting, But I hear
every day from people who will like, go to a
psychologist and they'll say, oh, well, they said that women
can't have a d h D. And I'm like, it's
two and there are still practicing medical professionals who say, oh,
girls can't have a d h D or or girls
can't be autistic, Like that's another big one that I
get a lot um or you know, like, oh, well,

(32:21):
you got good grades in school, so you can't have
a d h D. Or you know, you got a
degree in college or whatever, so you can't have a
d h D. And it's like, that's not how any
of this works, um. But because the stereotype is still
so fundamentally a white, sciss male seven year old boy

(32:42):
screwing around in the back of the classroom, there is
a lot of stigma and a lot of um, I think,
like false narratives that people have to fall like fight
through to just simply be seen and heard and get
a diagnosis. And so when you know, a forty five
year old woman shows up at the doctor's office and says,
I think I have a d h D. Like there

(33:04):
are doctors who will who will just be like, that's impossible,
that can't possibly be the case. Somebody would have noticed.
And it's like I am living proof that like there
are and it's not just there are millions of people
who are living proof that, you know, like sometimes you
get by until you can't get by anymore, and there
comes a breaking point. Um. And for a lot of

(33:26):
a fab people that comes in their thirties and their forties,
it's it's not like some it's not like a little
kid thing. You know. I don't know. I don't know
how else to explain it, but I just get so frustrated. No,
I mean, what you're talking about at the core of
those is able is um. And it absolutely draws into
the idea that you can't be this for so long,
denying and other people denying it because they don't want

(33:48):
to because it might be too close, it might hit
a little too close to home. Let's be honest, right now,
this is hitting a little too close to home, j
king um. But the fact is it's the internalized able
is um that is within all of the conversation and
the fact that it shouldn't be it should be normalized
and have a conversation about this is not a bad thing,
it is. This is a thing, and then when you

(34:09):
actually have an understanding of it, you can better move
on and grow in yourself. UM and I feel like
you've hit on that so hard. Can you kind of
go into what it looks like when able is UM
is a part of this conversation in itself buckling. So
this is not this is not specifically about a d
h D. But I have I have another. I have

(34:30):
an invisible disability. It's called dystonia UM. And dystonia basically
is characterized by unpredictable and unwanted muscle spasms that happen
all over your body. UM. For me, specifically, they happen
in my back and they happen in my hands. UM.
And my dystonia was sort of like kicked off by
an accident that I had in a show that I

(34:52):
was doing. Um, I I fell That's not a good story,
but that's it. I fell down. Oh no, But I
spent almost four years trying to get a diagnosis UM.
And as I went from doctor to doctor to doctor,
one of the things that I kept happening to me
was one they would accuse me of making it up
because just stonia is extremely rare. Um. But even more

(35:13):
than that, I got a lot of like, it's all
in your head, or maybe it's period cramps. I got
a lot of like it must be cramps, and I'm like,
I literally can't walk, Like what are you talking about?
But I also got a lot of, Um, your too
pretty to be disabled. I've heard that I'm too pretty
to be disabled. I've heard that I'm too smart to
be disabled. Um, I've heard that I don't look like

(35:35):
I'm disabled. Um. And and that is so prevalent, is
that I feel like there is unfortunately one like if
you say the word disabled, like for many people, like
one specific image comes to mind, and that is a
person using a wheelchair, Like that is disability to many people. Um.

(35:55):
And it's like, no, disability is not a monolith. And
for some people, like eight D is a profound disability. Um.
And for other people it's like, yeah, I have a
d h D, but you know, I take medicine. I'm fine,
you know. And because a disability is not a model
with and be like disability is also a spectrum, like
like whether it's you know, a d h D or

(36:17):
you know, paralysis or dystonia or whatever your particular issue,
maybe that is a spectrum. And so from person to
person to person, it's like if you know one person
with a d h D, you know one person with
a d h D. Um. But because the narrative is
still like, oh well, this one person is going to
speak for the group. Um. That's why, like I honestly

(36:39):
get really nervous when I do interviews like this because
it's like, this is my experience, this is this is
my experience. Um. But the pushback that I get a
lot is that like, oh, well, you're so good at school,
Like that must have been so nice for you. I
had a really hard time in school, and I'm like,
that is also totally valid. There are many people with
a d h D who fail out of school and
and and fail over and over and over and they

(36:59):
can't make will happen. I got lucky and that school
was like my hyper focus, you know. But like those
are two very different experiences that are both exceptionally valid
and exceptionally important to acknowledge. And so then when you
start sort of talking about able ism as a whole.
You just start to realize, like how insidious it is
that it's like there are still people walking around going, oh, well,

(37:20):
you're so smart, you can't be disabled, or you're so
pretty you can't be disabled, or whatever it may be.
And it's like what are we doing? Like why are
we not just believing people when they say that they're
struggling with something? Why do we need to take time
to like invalidate it for our own comfort because it
challenges our understanding of what like disability maybe? Um, And

(37:41):
that I think has been one of the most I
think enlightening things about this work that I do is
how much time I have to take, like when I'm
speaking or doing panels, to just unpack this idea that
it's like everybody's experience is the same. It's like, no,
we're all different, so like let's start there and start
like meeting each other in the middle. Um. But yeah,

(38:03):
I get I get really heated up about able is
M because it's profoundly affected me in many many ways. Yeah,
I know it asked for a lot of people. One
of the episodes my friends bring up the most with me,
which is very sweet that they actually listened to the show.
I don't expect them too, but is an episode that
we did about you know, women, I can't be autistic

(38:24):
and here's why, like it's under diagnosed and all this stuff,
and so many of them were like, oh my, I
just never knew that, And there you know, thirty year
old women and finding relief in that. And then also
we've done a lot of episodes about how doctors dismiss women,
sometimes leading to consequences like death when we're telling you like, no,

(38:45):
there's something wrong. I know there's something wrong, and they're
like you're good. Um. And then also just in America,
we've been talking about this a lot too, the whole
idea that you shouldn't complain, you should be productive, you
should fit in. I think it's been really damaging h
for a lot of people. Yeah, I mean it's definitely

(39:06):
that conversation of women have to prove their worth, a
fat people have to prove their worth in general, and
so therefore showing weakness, which is not a weakness, which
is saying this is something I might struggle with, is
showing weakness, and therefore you are less value. That's been
a whole conversation that's been inundated in US, especially as
again people who are identify as women have to show

(39:29):
marginalized people in general have to show that they are
of value because you know, white men apparently on its own,
are valued. Yeah. Well, and burnout culture too is such
a huge part I think, especially of like the ner
divergence story, because so many nerdivergent people like they thrive
on burnout until burnout becomes untenable. It's like, well, if

(39:53):
I need to feel pressure to get anything done, if
I need to, you know, feel this sense of mediacy
to get anything done, how do you do that? You
do that by over extending yourself, by overbooking yourself, by
constantly living in like a stress state for as long
as you possibly can. But at some point, like you
gotta crash, You've gotta crash. And and the more the

(40:16):
longer that you go on, you know, especially like for
late diagnosis people, like some people like me, I got
all the way, I got two master's degrees before that
burnout hit. But then that burnout hit and I was like,
I'm not okay, and I was not okay for a
long time. And it's and it's just like that culture
of like do more, be productive, do more, be productive,

(40:36):
prove your worth, prove your worth over and over and over.
And then in conversation with and I, and I can
only function when I'm living in that stressed out state, like, oh,
it gets dangerous. It gets so dangerous so quickly. And
I wish we'd talked more about that too. It's just
like how the culture of like capitalistic burnout, like just
is so dangerous for neuro divergent people to be able

(41:00):
to thrive in. Okay, I'm going to just stop calling
me out, thank you very much doing on now we've
talked about that, because I do feel like there's a
lot of morality attached to productivity in our country. And
for me, like when I get stressed, I hang on
to work like a life rafts and it's not healthy.
But I'm like, I can distract myself with this thing

(41:22):
and I don't have to think about all of this
other stuff that I'm struggling with. And it's definitely been
during the pandemic, it's really become clear to me how
much I rely on distracting myself and avoiding other things
through work. Yeah, it's not good. It's not good. It's

(41:44):
not good. It's not great, it's not grow. Can we
go back to something else you mentioned, which we've discussed

(42:04):
on this podcast to you, which is kink and embracing
kink and how that has been for you, how that
kind of intersects with a d h D all of
that good stuff. Yeah, So, okay, I want to be
I was. I would like to say this, I'm a
big fan of kink, but I'm absolutely not one of
those like come join my club people. I'm just like
kink as a tool in your intimacy toolbox. If if

(42:26):
it's for you, great, If it's not, also totally cool,
we can still be friends. That's totally fine. And also,
I think one of the things that has been really
interesting for me is is sort of like unpacking what
kink means to a lot of people, because I think
people here kink and they immediately go like, whip's changed
in dungeon parties, and it's like, great if that, if
that's your bag, awesome, but that's not it's not necessarily

(42:46):
if for everybody. Um But so sort of like circling
back to the actual point I was gonna make. Um. So,
one of the big things with a d h D
is that our brains are constantly seeking sensory input. Right.
It's like once the dopamine, once the serotonin kind of
wears off, like your brain is like onto the next thing.
And and the period of time that that takes, you know,

(43:08):
can be like I'm hyper focused on my emails, or
it can be I'm spending six months watching every episode
of Doctor Who. It really depends. And there's not a
really good way to like harness the power of your
A d h D. As much as a lot of
life coaches want to tell you on the internet, it's
it's challenging, right, Um. But so when you start talking
about like sex and intimacy and that kind of stuff, Um,

(43:29):
what a lot of people find is that that sort
of sensory seeking like input behavior is still happening, right.
And so as a sex educator, one of the things
that I'm a big sort of proponent of is the
fact that kink is at its foundation two different things
at the same time. It is it is sensory input,
and it is power dynamic. And you can have A

(43:51):
and not be. You can have B and not A,
you can have both, you can have neither. Whatever is
your bag, um, But a lot of times that sort
of the structure of a power dynamic of some kind,
whether it be like all the time in the bedroom,
like whatever, there's a lot of different options. Um. But
in conversation with that additional sensory input of you know,
like I'll say, like the riding crop, the flogger, the blindfold,

(44:14):
the ear plugs, like whatever you personally maybe using, um,
those things can really combine to provide a really satisfying
and much more like intimately satisfying experience for a neurodivergent person. UM.
And I think it's it's it's hard to talk about

(44:35):
kink a lot of times because there's such a stigma
attached to it. It's like, oh, now I gotta go
by by like all leather outfit and get down of
the dungeon. But it's like, no, it's like when we
when we talk about kink, we're literally talking about you know,
anything as simple as just a blindfold or you know,
wearing headphones or something like that too. You know, the
more like aggressive like fifty shades of gray stuff that
you might be picturing fifty shades grayst trash just for

(44:57):
on the record. Um. But but there's but it's it's
really powerful and really valuable tool. UM. But again, when
we talk about king, when we talk about king safety,
when we talk about negotiating boundaries, when we talk about
negotiating consent and all that stuff, A lot of those
conversations and the way that those things are taught in
kink and b D s M communities are again from

(45:18):
that neurotypical perspective of like, everybody's going to remember the
safe word, no problem. Nobody has time blindness, so there's
not going to be a problem in terms of like
how long do we do this scene for um, you know,
nobody has rejection sensitivity like that kind of stuff. Um.
And So when I started speaking more specifically towards second
intimacy as somebody who who really found a place for

(45:40):
myself in the king community, and really I think sort
of sexually came into my own because of kink and
what kink does personally for me, that was another place
where I was like, Hey, we really need to have
a conversation about time blindness. We really need to have
a conversation about managing you know, a submissive partner as
a neurodiver and dom and vice versa. UM. And so

(46:02):
I've had really the honor of being able to go
to a lot of like SKINK and b D s
M specific conventions and talk about that and talk about like, okay,
what like neurodivergent doms, neurodivergent subs, like neurodivergent kike in general. Um,
And it's kind of become like my my like little
passionate area of expertise because I just I really care
about it. I really care about the king community. I

(46:23):
really care about people playing safely and being educated safely
and that kind of stuff. Um. But I think if
if you're if you don't have the lived experience of
knowing what it's like to struggle with memory and time
blindness and rejection sensitivity and all the different stuff that
comes like wrapped up in the A d h D package,
it can be really hard to speak to it, um

(46:46):
with any sort of efficacy. And so um, that's what
I do for my job now. As I talk about
sex and a d h D on the internet, my
mom loves it. My mom is thrilled. My mom's like,
why are you like this? Well? My mom at first, Oh,
she's so mad, she's so mad. It's so funny, it's

(47:07):
so funny, my, Um. I grew up like in a
super conservative household where it was like masturbation was like
a terrible sin, and like you know, like sex is
like this like deeply shameful thing between a man and
a woman. And I was just like all right, cool
and then like I like rocked up and I was
like what's up. So a lot of a lot of
it too has been on learning that and unpacking about

(47:27):
like the religious shame and like I went to Catholic
school my whole life, Like it was the first time
I didn't go to Catholic school was in graduate school,
like I went to a Catholic university. So I was like,
there's a lot there's a lot of them. Know, I'm
with you, We've we've talked about this before. My parents
are also in that whilhouse. Like you're talking about women's issues,

(47:47):
you're one of them. Cool, um, which is funny because
I'm like, well now we're talking about feminism, and okay,
I'm not gonna explain this anymore. But I love that.
I think as we've talked to so many people in
the king Commune, pity and about what they do. One
of the big things that always stood out to me
and I love and I'm like, how do we translate
this to people who may not understand kink at all

(48:09):
or have never really thought about being a part of
this community or understanding what it is at its core.
But the communication that is a beautiful point in the
entirety of them, Like that in itself is enticing. Yeah. Absolutely,
And I think even like I borrow a lot from
the King community when I'm educating about like a d
h D. Like a big thing in the King community

(48:31):
is dropped, like the the experience of just like you know,
sub drop down, drop whatever. But drop just happens in
life to everybody, um but you when you explain drop,
I don't know. Okay, So basically drop is I'm I'm
I'm better with a diagram, but I'm going to use
my words to the best of my ability. But so basically,
in your brain there is a baseline amount of like

(48:53):
dopamine and serotonin and that kind of stuff. Um. And
as you partake in an activity, whether or not it
be like a ink will say, a kink scene, or
going to your friend's birthday party that you've been looking
forward to for a really long time, there's really no
discernible difference in your brain, but you start sort of
burning through those like happy time chemicals right, um. And
so then at some point you run out of those chemicals. Right,

(49:15):
you're feeling good, you're feeling good, you're having a great time,
blah blah blah, and then I'll oh, no, I'm kind
of we're out of that dope. I mean, we're out
of that serotonine. And that's where drop happens, right. And
so drop is like that moment where your brain says, no,
I need time to sort of replenish these chemicals and
sort of like get back up to that baseline. Um.
And that happens a lot in kink because you're you know,
you're experiencing these very like heightened emotions and you're like

(49:38):
making extra dopamine while like the scene is happening, and
then boop, it's gone. Um. But that happens a lot
just in life. You know. It's like an infer neurodeveraging people.
It can be as simple as like I've been looking
forward to going to this concert, I've been looking forward
to this birthday party or whatever. Um. But then that
drop happens, and when you already naturally have a lower
level of dopamine and sara a tone in whether because

(50:01):
of depression or a d h D or you know,
whatever may be going on in your brain that can
feel profoundly significant. And you can have these periods of
like depression and anxiety after something that's like I should
be having a good time. I should be having a
great time. Like why you know, like why do I
feel like crap after this amazing thing happens? And it's

(50:22):
like because Drop. And in the kick community, it's it's
a very frequent discussion. We're all like, oh, yeah, it's Drop.
But every time I bring up Drop in like a
non Kink audience, people's brains explode and they go what
like like what I was like, yeah, as well, it's
like a whole thing. It's like a whole science thing
that happens. I'm having a moment because I happened to

(50:43):
me very quickly. I'm like I'm done, I'm dead. I
gotta go yeah. And and and it can be like
one of those things where, especially again like in conversation
with like the other sort of component parts, because it's
all interconnected, it's all intertwined. But it's like, you know,
you have that drop moment. But then you also have
rejection sensitivity issues, so you're like less likely to go
to a wartner for comfort, You're less likely to reach out.
You're going to introvert inside yourself and you know, or

(51:04):
you are just deeply introverted and then going to go
talk to somebody about it. Like that's more spoons and
more exhaustion, and so the issue can compound in a way.
But it's like if you're aware of it, you go, Okay,
drop is happening, Like I need to take care of myself.
I need to make sure that you know, I'm like
reached out to a friend or having a friend reach
out to me or like whatever it may be. Um,
you can really start to set yourself up for success.

(51:28):
Um in in in a lot of ways that have
nothing to do with whips and chains, like nothing at all, um,
But I really think there's just so much to be
learned from the king community, like in stuff like that,
just in like the casual like conversations we have, but
also like you were saying, just like with consent and
negotiation and setting boundaries and unapologetically being like, hey, these

(51:49):
are my boundaries, these are my needs, like meet them
or don't, but like, they are valid and I will
not be changing them in order to, you know, make
you more comfortable. Um. I think that there's a lot
of hour there, especially for a group of people who
oftentimes are told that we're weird or broken, or we're
too much or you know, we're doing it wrong or

(52:10):
we're doing it poorly or whatever, and saying like, no,
this is how I'm going to do my laundry, this
is how I'm gonna do my dishes, this is what
I'm going to ask for during intimacy, and I need
that from you. If you can't meet those needs, then
we need to have a much larger conversation because your
needs are valid. Your needs are valid, and I will
die on that hill. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, Like

(52:30):
that's been my favorite thing about my takeaway from the
king community, and something that I wish everybody did is
that we should start from like not an assumption of
this is what sex looks like, this is what it
should be. We should start from here's what I want.
What do you want? Can we meet there? Ah? So good? Um,

(52:51):
it is good. Also, we have to go to therapy
after this one. Let's go Okay, I have therapy in
an hour. I usually do. I always manage she scheduled
podcast interviews either right before right after therapy, and my
therapist knows, like she's like, oh, do you have a
good interview today? I was like, yeah, it was great,
or like I'll be like just cry, like really complain

(53:11):
about us in therapy. I'm gonna say such nice things
about you. I was like already thinking about I'm like, oh,
I'm so excited to tell my therapist how good this? Yes? Um, okay,
So just a quick couple of wrap up things before
we end. So you were on the story Time podcast
about orgies. Correct? I maybe maybe I was. Maybe that

(53:34):
was me? No, I actually was. Apparently I was one
of their only guests that was like not like I
was just like, yeah, it's me. I'm Katiosaurus. What's up?
Like I just was like very open uppairly. That was
like weird, but I was like all right, cool, But yes,
that was me talking about organizing orgy specifically, which I'm
very up. Yeah. I spent like four summers professionally organizing

(53:56):
orgies because my background is in stage management and like
event planning. Um, And what I realized is that planning
and orgy is fundamentally no different than putting on a
production of Hamlet, except like weirder happens in the in
the fifth act, and so I was like, okay, cool.
So it was like one of those weird things where
I was working at a Shakespeare festival that shall go nameless, um,

(54:17):
and there was like a very sex positive sort of
like scene in that town. Um. And so I wound
up organizing orgies for rich people for like for summer. Wow,
it's weird. They brought you back every summer. I love
it they did. It was actually really funny. It was
like I would get would starting to get emails because
the festival ran like in like May, June, July, like

(54:39):
like summertime. I would start getting emails in like January
February be like, hey, we're just kind of wondering if
you were going to be like back this year, because
if you're looking to, you know, like work with you.
And I'd be like, yeah, I'm coming back, and I'll
be like great, all right. It's such a weird trivia effect.
I love it. I love it. Uh. Something else, um.

(55:00):
Samantha slowly trying to get me into TikTok we're not
on TikTok. She wants me to do all my Luke
Skywalker outfits. Okay, let's clanify something. I do want you
to do all of this, But it's more of like, hey,
we need to get on TikTok. Like if I get on,
it's only gonna Skywalter content. Yeah whatever, neither here nor there.

(55:21):
But you are very big on TikTok. However, you're not
verified yet, right, I'm I'm not do you have plans
for like celebration if you get verified, They're never going
to verify me. Is I've applied fourteen times for verification.
I have been on the Today Show. I've been on
The Doctors. I've been in Cosmo, I've been in the
New York Times, I Better g Q, I've been I've
been in every like, I've been in a lot of things.

(55:43):
And like, I'm not saying that to too my own horn.
I'm saying that to contextualize the fact that TikTok hates kink.
TikTok just hates sex and sex ed and is like
and we all have like there's like a secret code,
like we all have to like speak in secret code
to eat even like talk like about sex a lot
of the time, and so I'm I think I'm the

(56:06):
largest female a d h D content creator. There's one
person who was more like specifically a d h D,
but he he is male. Um, but I'm the largest
like girl basically, but they won't verify me because I
talk about sex and intimacy and kink and like that

(56:26):
kind of thing. Um. And so it's just like really frustrating,
um because like it's it's become like an ongoing joke
with my followers too, because it's just like like I
was on the Today Show talking specifically about like a
d h D and sex, like this is what I'm
doing for my career, and tik taks like m but
we don't like it though, so um. But yeah, so

(56:48):
I was just like whatever. So like now at this point,
I'm just like I'm moving to YouTube honestly. UM. I'm
starting to do more like longer form content on YouTube. Um. Also,
I don't actually know if I'm supposed to say this
yet or not, but it's fine. I'll just say Leroy Jenkins. Um,
we actually just had a web series green Lets that
We're where it's actually talking all the way back about
the start of the podcast, UM, where where we're just
gonna be talking about like different um careers and different

(57:10):
jobs and different like interesting hobbies UM. And like it's
sort of like a cross between like dirty jobs and
the try guys. Um. It's kind of what it's going
to be about. That just got green lights. Were really
excited about that. But yeah, it's TikTok and that's okay,
Well no, because I just keep saying it. No. When
it comes to TikTok, they are very odd when it
comes to what they ban, who they ban, who they verify,

(57:33):
who they celebrate, and typically it's all about popularity. And
when I say popularity, it's like literally having all of
your followers email TikTok and and not only just go
viral and having millions and millions and millions of views,
which I'm pretty sure you already have, but having that
and then having people harassed TikTok till the point that
you do it. Those content creators get that like that way.

(57:56):
That's what I've seen like people when especially because there
are sides based on what you view. It's it's odd
how they set this up and the fact that they
banned mostly they banned videos and content, and I've seen
it more so with people who are calling out like
racist and controversial statements, very like controversial ideas based on uh,

(58:17):
you know, anti LGBTQ. Like those people are still have
their stuff up. I actually went and tried to report
a video where he's celebrating a guy who is a
sex offender, like he got released as a rap rapist,
and they were like, oh, this is hilarious and they're
like a good job, get out of jail or whatever,
and then everybody was recorded that. I was like, this
is awful. Nope, they told me there was no violation.

(58:41):
I was like how, he literally says, I Am alright,
Like it's odd because they really do set it up
that people control what content is on there and it's
a cordon dude who gets the most the loudest, and
it seems it's very one sided. Yeah. I got banned
from TikTok for weekends about a year ago. Um, and

(59:03):
my I got really lucky because my community did exactly
that they they they like protested. It was like a
big deal when I got banned, which I wasn't expecting.
I didn't expect people to care like at all. Um
and I woke up and somebody had written a protest
ce shanty about my being banned, and that was like,
honestly one of the greatest things that like, it's still
my ringtones to this day. Um yeahk TikTok itself, like

(59:29):
the the entity TikTok is. I fight with TikTok all
the time. But I think the thing that I'm most
grateful for it, and I think the thing that really
did change my life is that TikTok allowed me to
find a community like the people on TikTok, the individual
users on TikTok, they are extraordinary people, like and there
are people who will who will go to bat for
me and say like, hey, this isn't fair, and they

(59:50):
constantly tagging TikTok and be like why isn't she verified yet?
You know that kind of stuff, um and so yeah.
So it's just been like this really interesting dichotomy of
like constantly having to fight to get my message out
there and be seen and heard, like I've been suppressed
to hell for the past like two weeks or so, um,
but at the same time getting emails and messages from

(01:00:11):
people saying thank you for what you do. You know,
like this is so important, Like I didn't know this,
Like you taught me something about my daughter or my
partner or my son or whatever, and like that's what
means the world to me. You know. It's like I
don't care if TikTok doesn't like me. I care about
the literally millions of people who have come to my
content to say like and hopefully learned something. So well, Kate,

(01:00:32):
thank you so much for being here. It has been
a delight. You are doing so many amazing things, and
you're in Atlanta, so we should hang sometimes we should. Yeah,
can we hang out there? Let's totally hang out. But
in the meantime, where can all the good listeners find you? Oh,
good listeners? You can find me in the following places. Um,
As Annie so lovely said, I'm Kate, um I go

(01:00:54):
by Katie source on all the social media's. Um you
can find me on TikTok, on YouTube, on Instagram, on Twitter,
on Twitch. I'm a Twitch partner now, which is very fancy. Um.
I also have a podcast, like I said, it's called
Katie and Eric's Infinite Quest in a d h D Adventure.
We're available wherever you listen to podcasts. Um and if
you want to learn more about me or what I do, UM,

(01:01:16):
you can go to Katie Saurus dot com. UM. And
if you would like the spicy content that I also do,
you can go to mostly pans dot com and that's
where that content is. So and also you probably saw
from the title, listeners, but it's Kate with the C
yes C A T I E O s A you

(01:01:38):
are us. I had to look at my own neonce
sign look that I thought you would trying to show us.
It was like if it's a you or you A,
I don't know, it's I get that worked out. Well.
Thank you so much again for being here, Listeners, Keep

(01:01:58):
an eye out for those the pie pilots, more than
one pilot. It's coming out. We're gonna be going to
the Penguin Magic Theater in Columbus, Ohio and learning how
to do become magicians in a week. I'm so scared.
It's gonna be amazing. I'm so excited. Projects it's Ohio
known from magicians anyway. Keep going on that plays is

(01:02:20):
famous anyway, all right. Also, if you would like to
contact us, you can or emails stuff media mom stuff
at I heeart mea dot com. You can find us
on Twitter, at mom to podcast or Instagram and stuff
I never told you. Thanks as always to you are
super producer Christina, She's a magician, for sure she is.
And thanks to you for listening. Stuff Whender told the
protection of I Heart Radio for more podcast in my
Heart Radio, but at the heart radio app Apple Podcast.

(01:02:42):
Where have you listened to your favorite shows?