March 27, 2026 • 38 mins
The impact of Madeline L’Engle’s award-winning and trail-blazing 1962 classic novel A Wrinkle in Time lasts to this day - and continues to inspire. We untangle themes of science, religion, conformity, love and embracing yourself for who you are.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
When never told your prediction of ihet radio, And today
we are bringing a book that I am so excited
we chose I thrilled about this. So for our book
(00:28):
club for Women's History Month, we're doing I don't think
we've ever done one quite like this. We are talking
about Madeline Lingles nineteen sixty two classic, A Wrinkle in Time.
It's a young adult science fiction fantasy novel that explores
themes of feeling different, conformity, science, religion, family, and love.
(00:50):
It tackles some pretty big ideas, but in a way
that is accessible and really creative and draws you in.
It encourages curiosity, it asks questions, It encourages you being yourself.
While it was rejected by several publishers, about twenty six publishers.
(01:12):
Apparently they thought it had too much evil for a
children's book, and having a girl being the main protagonist,
and the science fiction book just wasn't done At the time,
they were really struggling with like, what is this? How
do we classify this book? It did go on to
be a massive critical success, including winning at numerous awards
(01:34):
like the Newberry Medal in nineteen sixty three, and it's
a hugely popular and beloved book. It is still relevant today.
I was struck by it rereading it this time. It
sold over ten million copies. It's been adapted more than
once as a film. It has audio productions, there's an opera,
there's a graphic novel, and it's featured in countless other properties.
(01:57):
And it helped pave the way for other feet male protagonist.
This book is also the first in a series that
follows the characters and their families. I believe she wrote
like forty to sixty books. She wrote a lot of books. Yes,
just a fun fact about Lingole, who we are going
to talk about more about her beliefs in the themes.
(02:22):
She worked alongside Betty Frieden on her university literary magazine
and once said, I'm a female. Why would I give
all the best ideas to a male?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Amen?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Right? Right? So there were a couple of reasons that
this was on my mind, But one of the big
ones was I was hanging out with a friend of
mine and we were talking about I used to have
this bookshelf that she would kind of use as a library,
and she would you borrow my books, and that The
(02:55):
Wrinkle in Time was just so well born, and I
still have it, and it's like falling apart. I read
it so much. I loved it so much, and she said,
she said, like, I remember thinking I should choose this one,
because clearly this is a well loved book of hers.
(03:17):
And it's true. I did want to go over this
before we get started, and then I wanted to ask you,
because you've also read it before this, so I really
did remember quite a bit about it. On the reread.
I remembered the plot pretty much. I remembered there's an
illustration in it, for clear as day. I remember that illustration,
(03:40):
which we are going to talk about. There's a character
named Calvin. I did not remember at all, which I
think is very telling given some things about me I
will talk about. I do remember when they get to
Kamisots and kind of the like uniform jump roping and
(04:02):
playing and that being really creeped out by that whole idea.
I really remember the eating scene where they were eating
the food and it's like bland, and then Charles, Charles
Wallace gets super into it, and then I remember the
Big Brain and how Meg defeated it, So I feel
(04:23):
I think it was there. I think most of the
stuff was there. I remember, other than Calvin, the characters
were all there.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. Yeah, No, I remember very little. Actually I only
read it once, and I think I read it due
to its popularity and being religious as a young kid
and loving C. S. Lewis. I think I had like
a pretty conceived feeling that it wasn't going to be
(04:52):
as good or it wasn't going to be as good
in my book, because I loved all of the like
the Lion, the Witch, the Wardrobes, Chronicles of Narnia, so
this was a little different. So I don't remember, like
I can clearly tell you everything about the Chronicles of
Narnia the things about this book, and I don't know.
I read the other two that go along with it.
It's a trilogy, right, it's Quintet, oh Quintet. But I
(05:16):
did not remember hardly anything. I knew there were three
kids that went on the adventure. I knew the dad
was missing, and I remember thinking that because the dad
was not as significant a role as it plays out
to be. Like the recent release with Chris Pine, you
(05:37):
know I'm talking about you know, he plays the father.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Disney The New Yeah, okay, I didn't know Chris Pine was.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yes, he plays the father, but yeah, I just remember again.
I also forgot about Calvin. I really thought it was
three sibling groups. I forgot the youngest existing, uh at all.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
In my mind it was the twins who were but
they weren't twins. It was just two boys, so it
wasn't like the twins specifically. It could have been the
youngest one, but I didn't remember how young he was.
What I do remember again is the three sibling groups.
I remember the two D world because that whole feeling
of like I couldn't breathe. I was like, oh yeah,
I remember the scene because it made me panic a
(06:23):
little bit the way it was described. I remember the
three creatures, the women missus which missus what all of those?
I remember them, and that they weren't worldly. That I remember.
That's all I remember. I forgot about Aunt Beast, which
if I read it back then, I probably would have
(06:44):
loved and fixated on her mainly because of like the
kindness and the touch and all of that. That I
was like, huh, I can't believe I can't remember her either,
like I did not remember much at all. I did
not remember the brain and didn't remember the brain I remember.
I think that probould be about it. And I remember
(07:07):
again the mother being the beautiful woman. M h that
was a clear part in my head.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah. Yeah, well this was a big I obviously read
it a ton when I was a kid, and I
read all of the series, and I read a lot
of her books. I obviously did not read all forty
to sixty, however mean it is, but I read a
lot of the I read that whole quintet, and then
(07:37):
I read she did like a some others that were
kind of similar, and I read those. So maybe it
was just my thing. I'm not sure. But it is
a quick read. It goes fast, like the plot is
like nope, we're moving on. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I thought like the ending was a lot faster, Like
the resolve was way quicker than the actual adventure part
that I was like, wait, that was quick.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
She solved that really quickly. What just happened? Yep, yep,
you just need to figure out the power of love, Samantha,
power of law? Yes, okay, well I would I would
love to hear from listeners about this because it is
a big As I said, it's had a huge impact.
(08:29):
It's also very commonly on like reader's list or something
that you read for school. So let us know your
thoughts and I've yeah, I guess no spoilers, but because
this has been out for a while, yes, and it
gets referenced everywhere. But uh, here we go. Let's go
(08:52):
over the plot. The story follows thirteen year old Meg Murray,
who is a bit of an outcast at her school,
playing as she calls herself an incredibly smart Her younger brother,
Charles Wallace, is also incredibly smart and seems to have
some kind of extrasensory gift, and Meg's parents are both scientists. However,
(09:13):
her father went missing while doing some top secret work
for the government, and he hasn't been seen or heard
from in many years, a fact that causes a lot
of gossip around town that infuriates Meg. Meg has never
given up on the facts that he will return. One night,
(09:34):
Meg and her mom meet an acquaintance of Charles Wallace's,
a quirky neighbor named missus What's It? She brings up
a tesser act, something that seems to leave Meg's mom
really shaken to get answers. Charles Wallace and Meg go
to visit her the next day and run into a
boy Meg's age, named Calvin. Calvin explains that he had
(09:56):
a feeling that he should be there, and the three
of them go to visit Missus What's It, only to
meet Missus Who a woman who speaks through quotes and
literary references, and they also meet an unseen presence named
Missus Witch. They promise to help Meg and Charles Wallace
find their father. The three women teleport the children through
(10:21):
space time to the planet Uriel, where they explain that
they just traveled by tess ring or wrinkling, And this
is where the illustration comes in. But basically, by using
the fifth dimension, they take something that would be a
long distance and wrinkle it so it is a short one.
So in the illustration, it's a string pulled tot with
an ant going across it, and then the fingers holding
(10:45):
the string come together to wrinkle the string and the
ant has to travel a much shorter distance. I remember
it so clearly. The process is more noticeably uncomfortable to Meg,
who doesn't have the extrasensory whatever that Charles Wallace and
Calvin do Missus What's It, the youngest of the three women,
(11:07):
who is still over a billion years old, has the
easiest time vocalizing, meaning speaking in English to them in
this case at least, so she transforms into a pegasus
and takes the three children up past the atmosphere to
show them the Black Thing, a cloud of black that
threatens the entire universe, including Earth. They visit a friend
(11:31):
of the women, happy Medium, who uses her crystal ball
to show the partial cover around Earth that so far
has been held back over the years by various thinkers, scientists,
and artist. Missus What's It informs the kids that she
was once a star that sacrificed herself to fight back
the dark. They then go to Kamizots, a planet completely
(11:54):
overtaken by the Black Thing, and the W's as they're
called tell them that their father is somewhere here. He's
somewhere nearby. They tell the children that it will be
very dangerous and that they need to stay together. While
the women cannot accompany them, they give them gifts and
some parting words. They strengthen Calvin's ability to communicate, Charles
(12:18):
Wallace's childhood resilience, and they give Meg her faults Missus,
who also gives Meg her glasses to be used as
a last resort, and Charles Wallace is warned that he
doesn't know everything. Then the children set off. It is
immediately clear something is wrong here. They walk through a
(12:40):
neighborhood where everything looks the same. The children jump rope
at exactly the same rhythm. They bounce their balls at
the same time. Their mothers all open the door at
the same time. When one of the children falters bouncing
his ball out of sink, his terrified mother rushes him
inside and refuses to answer any of the trio's questions
(13:01):
when they attempt to return his ball back to him,
especially because they don't have papers. She keeps asking, like
where are your papers? They stop someone else who is
equally suspicious of them, and he tells them to go
to Central Central Intelligence, where they immediately are reported and
taken it to the Man with the Red Eyes, who
(13:21):
is controlled, along with everybody else, by a large telepathic
brain called it Red Eyes, hypnotizes Charles Wallace, who Charles
Wallace kind of let it happen because he thought I
could use this to find our father before Meg stops him.
They are able to get away, and Charles Wallace leads
(13:42):
them deeper inside, explaining that everything is the way it
is here because everyone's uniqueness has been stripped away. They
find Meg and Charles Wallace's father being held prisoner, but
he cannot see them or hear them through the glass
walls that are encasing him. Meg uses missus Who's glasses
to reach him and they reunite, only for Charles Wallace
(14:03):
to lead them to it. It attempts to hypnotize Meg,
her father, Doctor Murray, I guess I should have said,
and Calvin, just as it has Charles Wallace. At first,
they are able to resist by shouting things that might
not make much sense to it, but upon realizing that
(14:24):
they won't last long, doctor Murray testers them away to
a nearby planet, leaving Charles Wallace behind. This requires them
moving through the black Thing, and Meg is temporarily paralyzed.
The planet's inhabitants have forearms, tentacles, and featureless faces. They
cannot see. One of them patiently nurses Meg back to health.
(14:48):
Meg calls her aunt Beast. The W's arrive and say
that it is up to Meg to save Charles Wallace,
claiming that she has something it doesn't. She is transported
back to it and realizes it is her love for
Charles Wallace that will save him. Once the hypnosis is broken,
the W's and the rest tester back to Earth to
(15:09):
the Murray Home. A few minutes before they left there,
their mother had a reunion with her husband, and the
W's disappear the end. I loved it. I'm so glad
we chose this lego. I remember, I remember why I
loved this so much. People have written a lot about this,
(15:39):
So we are going to go over some themes, but
just know there's so much written about this, right If
you want to look more.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Into theological studies on this series, oh yes absolutely, But
that does bring us to one of the first themes
I wanted to talk about, which is signed It's in Religion,
because this is a very science heavy book, and it's
really interesting to me that it was aimed at a
(16:11):
young adult audience, but it's talking about like the fifth dimension,
and it has all these scientific principles that they bring in.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
They have all these scientists they bring up. Both Charles
Wallace and Meg are very smart, like scientifically, mathematically all
of that. But then you have these big themes of
religion also in spirituality, so the themes of light and dark,
(16:41):
that's a big one, and the light being like the
love of God or the love of Jesus Christ or
something like that. You do have this moment where the
children are saying of the w's, oh my gosh, you're
guardian angels, and they're kind of like, uh, yeah, but
(17:02):
not really. And I think that's interesting too, because there's
a lot in this book I love about how language
limits ys maybe, or understanding limit says maybe. And it's
fascinating to me just the different ways that ws communicate
(17:26):
because they've been around so long and so having that
idea of maybe this is the best way you can
understand a concept, but that might not necessarily be what
it is, but that's how you understand it. There's also
a big thing throughout the whole book of curiosity and
(17:49):
asking questions, so you know their names, what's it missus? Who? Missus?
Which just having these questions. It is a very creative
story in terms of you know, on this plant as
a two dimensional planet. You know, here they're singing the
(18:11):
song you don't understand, but maybe somebody can interpret it
for you or with missus Beast. You know, she kept
saying to Meg, I don't understand this sea concept that
I don't see. You need to tell me in a
different way, and so asking those questions and trying to
(18:33):
not always arriving at the answers. So here's a quote.
But you see, Meg, just because we don't understand doesn't
mean that the explanation doesn't exist. So there is that
level of it, but there's also a very mysteries of
the universe level of it, like we might never know,
right right, Yeah, here's a quote. We look not at
(18:57):
the things which are what you would call seen, but
at the things which are not seen. For the things
which are seen are temporal, but the things which are
not seen are eternal. Yeah, that was a Missus Beast.
M m hmmm. I like miss Beast. Missus Beast was great, Yes,
(19:19):
And so I did want to put a quick point
in here about the author's views because I was really like, huh,
what's going on here? Because it's got so much science
in it, and it's got all this religion in it.
So Lingol was very interested in modern science. She was
also what was called a liberal Christian or a universal Christian,
(19:41):
and she got a lot of flak for that at
the time from conservative Christians. She got the most flack
for that than from any secular audience. Obviously. Yeah, they
hated that she brought up Buddha. They hated that she
had a happy meat a witch using a crystal ball.
(20:02):
They thought, like the three the W's were witches. And
also universal Christian if you don't know means even if
you don't believe God loves you enough, you're gonna be fine,
which conservative Christians do not like.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
No, Yeah, apparently she attended Episcopal Church, which is a
lot more well known now. But yeah, during the hell
far Burnstone era of these times, that was not so
much alive. But we also know the splintering of different
kinds of religion a bit different sects, and especially like
(20:40):
among the Protestants, that they want it, they love hating
on their own.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So yeah, I've talked about before. Yep, we sure have,
We sure have. And she she wrote a lot of
essays about it and kind of came to terms with it,
and she was a very she had her specific belief
system and I believe she said of this book, this
(21:07):
is like the most religious thing I've ever written, Like
this is the most true to how I feel in
my spiritual beliefs. So she also uses a lot of
names from different religions in the books. So like camizots
is I think, a Mayan god, Uriel obviously, Archangel Malek
(21:32):
is Hebrew, I think. So a lot of a lot
of the names are there in there are very religious,
and she is somebody who was really interested in religion
and studying religion. So that was interesting. And the book
has been on the top one hundred most banned books
list since at least the nineteen nineties for being anti
(21:54):
Christian and promoting witchcraft Bible verses in there. When asked
about this by The New York Times, Lingle said, first
I felt horror than anger, and finally I said, all
the hell with it. It's great publicity. Really she is correct, yep, yep, okay.
(22:21):
So another big theme is conformity versus individuality. So I
wanted to read this quote from the forward by Anna Quinnlin,
Conformity knows no time or place. It is the struggle
all of us face to be ourselves despite the overwhelming
pressure to be like everyone else. Perhaps one of the
(22:42):
most compelling and moving descriptions of that internal battle comes
near the end of the book when Missus Watson tells
the children that life, with its rules, its obligations, and
its freedoms, is like a sonnet. You're given the form,
but you have to write the sonnet yourself. What you
say is completely up to you. This book came out
(23:05):
during the Cold War and America's fear of communism. However,
later interviews and a cut passage from the book revealed
that it is not a commentary on communism so much
as dictatorship and totalitarianism. It also came out after the
growing post World War two suburbia, so we're getting these
(23:27):
blossoming of neighborhoods that do look exactly the same. Yes,
and if you think about the dark thing, there's obviously
the darkness, the light versus dark, but it's also kind
of the conformity of it's taking away, it's shadowing your uniqueness,
(23:52):
it's flattening things, it's holding earth back. And there is
a through line through the book of when conforming or
following the rules hold you back. And so one of
the examples that really suck out to me is Meg
is talking about doing her math home work. Now she's really,
really good at it, but the teacher always docks her
(24:15):
because she doesn't she doesn't show her work in the
way he thinks she should show her work. And this
happened to me in high school.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
It happened to me in middle school.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
It's what I was the only one who got the
answer right, and the teacher brought me up to the
board to show everybody, and I did it, and he
was like, how did you do that? I said, well, look,
I just did it. I was saying what I was
doing it. And he was like, but that doesn't make sense,
and I said, well, I got the right answer.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Apparently it does me.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
It did to me, but it didn't make sense to
anybody else. I guess, you know, sometimes it works that way,
and it's okay, yes, yeah, So that being an instance
of conforming holding her back, like she's having to spend
more time to do it in this one specific way.
And then the language I do, Like I said, I
(25:14):
I love that aspect of this where and this is
a really popular something that's popularly explored in science fiction
books is when we don't have the words for things
and they exist, but we just the language isn't there
(25:35):
to describe it. And so I love that with the
Wus and how they communicate, and I love how they're
trying to communicate with these kids from Earth who have
this kind of because language can put your thoughts in
a box if you're not careful, like because you don't
(25:55):
have the words for something, then you can you're like,
well that doesn't exist, but it might and you just
don't have the words for it yet. So here's a quote.
It's in miss Witch's voice, and I'm not going to
do it, but she is kind of like an embodied
ghostly voice. Everybody, there will no longer be so many
(26:17):
pleasant things to look at if responsible people do not
do something about the unpleasant ones. Yes, and then there's
this whole idea of taking away choice or relinquishing choice,
and you know, maybe doing that willfully or not. Here's
(26:39):
a quote from it. You see, what you will soon
realize is that there is no need to fight me.
Not only is there no need, but you will not
have the slightest desire to do so. For why should
you wish to fight someone who is here only to
save you pain and trouble for you, as well as
for the rest of all of the happy, useful people
(27:01):
on this planet I and my own strength am willing
to assume all the pain, all the responsibility, all the
burdens of thought and decision. So obviously this is a
been a theme that has been explored in a lot
of things. One that has through like the test of time.
(27:25):
I remember is a book I got at the book fair,
which the book fair was awesome, by the way, still around.
I'd loved the book fair. It was like the most
exciting thing. But there was a series called pen Dragon,
and it was It was a series where in the
main character would go to different planets and try to
(27:48):
save them from falling. I like a like some historical
point that they point of no return, you try to stop.
And I think for the first four books success, but
like I think it's the fifth one. The fourth or
fifth one. He goes to this planet where they invent
(28:09):
like a pod you can get into and you can
live like a virtual life, and you know, it looks
like it's going on all great and all this stuff,
and then in the end everybody chooses to go into
the pod, even though they know they'll die, because they'd
rather live their virtual life than live their real life.
(28:31):
And I've never forgotten it that was the first planet
he lost. Yea, yes, it's dark right, They all even
and he was like, don't you know you'll die? Like
I don't care. I don't care. Oh my gosh. And
I'm like a twelve year old reading this thing. Oh no,
(28:55):
but it's one of those things where you can't like.
When I was reading that book, I was thinking, their
their virtual lives do sound really nice. They would describe
them like, oh, it's a matrix for kids, exactly exactly.
It got me. I still remember it. I still remember
(29:17):
if anybody's read Pin Dragon.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I have never read Pin Dragon, but I did. We
were driving by a bus in our little town near
us and they had a giant truck for the book
fair art there unloading books.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yaych Elastic book Fair made me very happy.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yes, oh, I loved it so much. Another part of
this whole thing is embracing your weirdness. So if you're
fighting against the conformity of it all, embracing your weirdness,
(29:59):
and it go out of its way to show that
children being taught conform me. They're being taught it from
a very young age that you should this is how
you should be. If you're not that, then something is
wrong with you. You've got Meg being bullied for not being
smart enough or pretty enough, even though she's, like we've said,
(30:21):
very smart, she just doesn't do it in the quote
traditional way. Here's a quote. But of course, we can't
take any credits for our talents. It's how we use
them that counts. And then here's another one, Meg, I
give you your faults, my faults. Meg cried your faults, but
I'm always trying to get rid of my faults. Yes, missus,
(30:45):
what's it said? However, I think you'll find they'll come
in very handy on camasots. And they did, yeah, because
the brain didn't know what to do. It was like
whoa had to deal with this before? And then you
can see like it's a real air of paranoia on Camus.
(31:08):
Eye's everybody being worried that people are trying to catch
them out for not conforming that they're going to be reprocessed.
So having those faults are that uniqueness being erased by
fear or controlled by fear. There's also some ableism in
(31:29):
it because Charles Wallace is four years old. I believe
he's young, and he's very smart, but he only really
talks to his family, and there's just a lot of
rumors that something is wrong with him and his development.
(31:49):
And I think Meg also got some of those. I
haven't been talking about the twins much because they're barely
they're siblings of twins, because they're barely there in this book.
But they were sort of the quote normal ones. But yeah,
there's an air of that as well. And then you know,
also fighting conformity. We've got some weird role models who
(32:12):
are women perhaps because this is another thing I like
about science fiction. They present as women on earth, but
they also transform, potentially change genders. And I know I
talked about this with Octavia Butler, but Octavia Butler wrote
(32:32):
about this a lot in her books about again, if
the language doesn't exist, like we're still in kind of
a binary perhaps, but there's all this other stuff that,
you know, maybe that's not what we were, and we
just that they were, and we don't have the word
for it, yeah, or the understanding for it yet, right, Yes,
(32:56):
and they are billions of years old, billion eOne. We'll
talk about that. That she was a star, Yes, this
is what's it. Yeah, And so they would have such
a different understanding of things than all of us would have,
(33:17):
all of us mere humans would have. I think about
this a lot with Yoda, like he must have a
completely different maybe nine hundred years old right then, and
people different like humans die so young compared to I
(33:38):
don't know. I do think about this, yes, yeah, well
I have to. I have to. And also yeah, through that,
through all of that challenging what you think, and they
do often ask the kids questions like what do you
think of this? Or do you think this? Are just
(34:02):
pushing them to really consider and I kind of love
that there. They don't back down. They're like, no, really
think about this. You've kind of made me angry with
what you said, actually, so I want you to think
about it. And then kind of going off of that
(34:24):
at the end, when Meg has to go, she's the
one that they say, You're the one that asks to
go to Camusots to rescue Charles Wallace and her dad
and Calvin are both like, no, way, it's me or
she's not going alone, and it's the three ws that
are like, no, she can do it. She's gonna do it.
You can't do it. And so I kind of liked
(34:48):
that flip because it could come off as pretty brutal
that they're selling no, send this young girl right there
by herself. But instead they're no, she can do it,
and we're not gonna hold her back, right, yes, And
that brings us to the power of love. This is
(35:09):
what saves Charles Wallace. This is what Meg realizes, Oh,
this is what I have that not only the brain
it doesn't have, but her father doesn't have because he
wasn't really there. He didn't know Charles Wallace. Calvin doesn't
have right. She was the one that loved Charles Wallace
(35:34):
and he loved her, and he loved her. Yeah, and
they were siblings who really saw each other and had
a connection. And we're both outcasts but understood each other.
Like Charles Wallace will say stuff completely out of nowhere
(35:54):
and Meg would just be like, all right, yeah, sure,
let's go. Okay, I believe you. And this brings us
to my final point. I would say, as I mentioned,
you can read so much about these books, but I
wanted to just say the importance of childhood books like this,
(36:16):
the importance of the book fair, the importance of something
that you read and means so much to you. And
this book has a lot of themes about coming of
age at your own time, on your own terms, feeling
less alone, and as a reader, you feel less alone
(36:38):
reading it. It also has a theme of when you
realize your parents aren't perfect. Because Meg thought her dad,
like finding her dad would fix everything, he would fix everything,
and she gets kind of mad him because he, in
her mind, left Charles Walls behind and then he's not
the one that can save him. She is, but also
(37:01):
that you are not perfect and that's okay. So like
giving men her faults and being like, nope, this is
what's this is what's going to say to you. And
it is really cool to see how many people of
all types were impacted by this book and how young
people today are still reading it. I was reading a
(37:21):
Smithsonian article about it, and it was just so many
people have mentioned this book. Without this book, I don't
know if I would have done what I did, and
so that's amazing and I do too. I do too.
I'm so glad we chose this book.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I'm glad to read it as an adult and not
a prejudiced Christian child.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I was glad to read it as an adult too,
because it does have some pretty big concepts in it.
And I after I read it, I thought, oh, I
think I understood this well enough as a child, but
I really understand it. Yeah now as an adult. It's
just fantastic. Well listeners, please let us know if you
(38:14):
have any thoughts about this book, or any books that
you feel had a huge impact on your childhood, We
would love to know. You can email us at Hello
at stuffonnevertold you dot com. You can find us on
Polu Scott Mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok
at Stuff I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube.
We have merchandise at Common Bureau, and we have a
book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
(38:35):
as always too, our super just Christine, our executive Bruce,
to my an contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to
you for listening Stuff I've Never Told you this prediction
of my Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
When never told your prediction of ihet radio, And today
we are bringing a book that I am so excited
we chose I thrilled about this. So for our book
(00:28):
club for Women's History Month, we're doing I don't think
we've ever done one quite like this. We are talking
about Madeline Lingles nineteen sixty two classic, A Wrinkle in Time.
It's a young adult science fiction fantasy novel that explores
themes of feeling different, conformity, science, religion, family, and love.
(00:50):
It tackles some pretty big ideas, but in a way
that is accessible and really creative and draws you in.
It encourages curiosity, it asks questions, It encourages you being yourself.
While it was rejected by several publishers, about twenty six publishers.
(01:12):
Apparently they thought it had too much evil for a
children's book, and having a girl being the main protagonist,
and the science fiction book just wasn't done At the time,
they were really struggling with like, what is this? How
do we classify this book? It did go on to
be a massive critical success, including winning at numerous awards
(01:34):
like the Newberry Medal in nineteen sixty three, and it's
a hugely popular and beloved book. It is still relevant today.
I was struck by it rereading it this time. It
sold over ten million copies. It's been adapted more than
once as a film. It has audio productions, there's an opera,
there's a graphic novel, and it's featured in countless other properties.
(01:57):
And it helped pave the way for other feet male protagonist.
This book is also the first in a series that
follows the characters and their families. I believe she wrote
like forty to sixty books. She wrote a lot of books. Yes,
just a fun fact about Lingole, who we are going
to talk about more about her beliefs in the themes.
(02:22):
She worked alongside Betty Frieden on her university literary magazine
and once said, I'm a female. Why would I give
all the best ideas to a male?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Amen?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Right? Right? So there were a couple of reasons that
this was on my mind, But one of the big
ones was I was hanging out with a friend of
mine and we were talking about I used to have
this bookshelf that she would kind of use as a library,
and she would you borrow my books, and that The
(02:55):
Wrinkle in Time was just so well born, and I
still have it, and it's like falling apart. I read
it so much. I loved it so much, and she said,
she said, like, I remember thinking I should choose this one,
because clearly this is a well loved book of hers.
(03:17):
And it's true. I did want to go over this
before we get started, and then I wanted to ask you,
because you've also read it before this, so I really
did remember quite a bit about it. On the reread.
I remembered the plot pretty much. I remembered there's an
illustration in it, for clear as day. I remember that illustration,
(03:40):
which we are going to talk about. There's a character
named Calvin. I did not remember at all, which I
think is very telling given some things about me I
will talk about. I do remember when they get to
Kamisots and kind of the like uniform jump roping and
(04:02):
playing and that being really creeped out by that whole idea.
I really remember the eating scene where they were eating
the food and it's like bland, and then Charles, Charles
Wallace gets super into it, and then I remember the
Big Brain and how Meg defeated it, So I feel
(04:23):
I think it was there. I think most of the
stuff was there. I remember, other than Calvin, the characters
were all there.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. Yeah, No, I remember very little. Actually I only
read it once, and I think I read it due
to its popularity and being religious as a young kid
and loving C. S. Lewis. I think I had like
a pretty conceived feeling that it wasn't going to be
(04:52):
as good or it wasn't going to be as good
in my book, because I loved all of the like
the Lion, the Witch, the Wardrobes, Chronicles of Narnia, so
this was a little different. So I don't remember, like
I can clearly tell you everything about the Chronicles of
Narnia the things about this book, and I don't know.
I read the other two that go along with it.
It's a trilogy, right, it's Quintet, oh Quintet. But I
(05:16):
did not remember hardly anything. I knew there were three
kids that went on the adventure. I knew the dad
was missing, and I remember thinking that because the dad
was not as significant a role as it plays out
to be. Like the recent release with Chris Pine, you
(05:37):
know I'm talking about you know, he plays the father.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Disney The New Yeah, okay, I didn't know Chris Pine was.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yes, he plays the father, but yeah, I just remember again.
I also forgot about Calvin. I really thought it was
three sibling groups. I forgot the youngest existing, uh at all.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
In my mind it was the twins who were but
they weren't twins. It was just two boys, so it
wasn't like the twins specifically. It could have been the
youngest one, but I didn't remember how young he was.
What I do remember again is the three sibling groups.
I remember the two D world because that whole feeling
of like I couldn't breathe. I was like, oh yeah,
I remember the scene because it made me panic a
(06:23):
little bit the way it was described. I remember the
three creatures, the women missus which missus what all of those?
I remember them, and that they weren't worldly. That I remember.
That's all I remember. I forgot about Aunt Beast, which
if I read it back then, I probably would have
(06:44):
loved and fixated on her mainly because of like the
kindness and the touch and all of that. That I
was like, huh, I can't believe I can't remember her either,
like I did not remember much at all. I did
not remember the brain and didn't remember the brain I remember.
I think that probould be about it. And I remember
(07:07):
again the mother being the beautiful woman. M h that
was a clear part in my head.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah. Yeah, well this was a big I obviously read
it a ton when I was a kid, and I
read all of the series, and I read a lot
of her books. I obviously did not read all forty
to sixty, however mean it is, but I read a
lot of the I read that whole quintet, and then
(07:37):
I read she did like a some others that were
kind of similar, and I read those. So maybe it
was just my thing. I'm not sure. But it is
a quick read. It goes fast, like the plot is
like nope, we're moving on. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I thought like the ending was a lot faster, Like
the resolve was way quicker than the actual adventure part
that I was like, wait, that was quick.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
She solved that really quickly. What just happened? Yep, yep,
you just need to figure out the power of love, Samantha,
power of law? Yes, okay, well I would I would
love to hear from listeners about this because it is
a big As I said, it's had a huge impact.
(08:29):
It's also very commonly on like reader's list or something
that you read for school. So let us know your
thoughts and I've yeah, I guess no spoilers, but because
this has been out for a while, yes, and it
gets referenced everywhere. But uh, here we go. Let's go
(08:52):
over the plot. The story follows thirteen year old Meg Murray,
who is a bit of an outcast at her school,
playing as she calls herself an incredibly smart Her younger brother,
Charles Wallace, is also incredibly smart and seems to have
some kind of extrasensory gift, and Meg's parents are both scientists. However,
(09:13):
her father went missing while doing some top secret work
for the government, and he hasn't been seen or heard
from in many years, a fact that causes a lot
of gossip around town that infuriates Meg. Meg has never
given up on the facts that he will return. One night,
(09:34):
Meg and her mom meet an acquaintance of Charles Wallace's,
a quirky neighbor named missus What's It? She brings up
a tesser act, something that seems to leave Meg's mom
really shaken to get answers. Charles Wallace and Meg go
to visit her the next day and run into a
boy Meg's age, named Calvin. Calvin explains that he had
(09:56):
a feeling that he should be there, and the three
of them go to visit Missus What's It, only to
meet Missus Who a woman who speaks through quotes and
literary references, and they also meet an unseen presence named
Missus Witch. They promise to help Meg and Charles Wallace
find their father. The three women teleport the children through
(10:21):
space time to the planet Uriel, where they explain that
they just traveled by tess ring or wrinkling, And this
is where the illustration comes in. But basically, by using
the fifth dimension, they take something that would be a
long distance and wrinkle it so it is a short one.
So in the illustration, it's a string pulled tot with
an ant going across it, and then the fingers holding
(10:45):
the string come together to wrinkle the string and the
ant has to travel a much shorter distance. I remember
it so clearly. The process is more noticeably uncomfortable to Meg,
who doesn't have the extrasensory whatever that Charles Wallace and
Calvin do Missus What's It, the youngest of the three women,
(11:07):
who is still over a billion years old, has the
easiest time vocalizing, meaning speaking in English to them in
this case at least, so she transforms into a pegasus
and takes the three children up past the atmosphere to
show them the Black Thing, a cloud of black that
threatens the entire universe, including Earth. They visit a friend
(11:31):
of the women, happy Medium, who uses her crystal ball
to show the partial cover around Earth that so far
has been held back over the years by various thinkers, scientists,
and artist. Missus What's It informs the kids that she
was once a star that sacrificed herself to fight back
the dark. They then go to Kamizots, a planet completely
(11:54):
overtaken by the Black Thing, and the W's as they're
called tell them that their father is somewhere here. He's
somewhere nearby. They tell the children that it will be
very dangerous and that they need to stay together. While
the women cannot accompany them, they give them gifts and
some parting words. They strengthen Calvin's ability to communicate, Charles
(12:18):
Wallace's childhood resilience, and they give Meg her faults Missus,
who also gives Meg her glasses to be used as
a last resort, and Charles Wallace is warned that he
doesn't know everything. Then the children set off. It is
immediately clear something is wrong here. They walk through a
(12:40):
neighborhood where everything looks the same. The children jump rope
at exactly the same rhythm. They bounce their balls at
the same time. Their mothers all open the door at
the same time. When one of the children falters bouncing
his ball out of sink, his terrified mother rushes him
inside and refuses to answer any of the trio's questions
(13:01):
when they attempt to return his ball back to him,
especially because they don't have papers. She keeps asking, like
where are your papers? They stop someone else who is
equally suspicious of them, and he tells them to go
to Central Central Intelligence, where they immediately are reported and
taken it to the Man with the Red Eyes, who
(13:21):
is controlled, along with everybody else, by a large telepathic
brain called it Red Eyes, hypnotizes Charles Wallace, who Charles
Wallace kind of let it happen because he thought I
could use this to find our father before Meg stops him.
They are able to get away, and Charles Wallace leads
(13:42):
them deeper inside, explaining that everything is the way it
is here because everyone's uniqueness has been stripped away. They
find Meg and Charles Wallace's father being held prisoner, but
he cannot see them or hear them through the glass
walls that are encasing him. Meg uses missus Who's glasses
to reach him and they reunite, only for Charles Wallace
(14:03):
to lead them to it. It attempts to hypnotize Meg,
her father, Doctor Murray, I guess I should have said,
and Calvin, just as it has Charles Wallace. At first,
they are able to resist by shouting things that might
not make much sense to it, but upon realizing that
(14:24):
they won't last long, doctor Murray testers them away to
a nearby planet, leaving Charles Wallace behind. This requires them
moving through the black Thing, and Meg is temporarily paralyzed.
The planet's inhabitants have forearms, tentacles, and featureless faces. They
cannot see. One of them patiently nurses Meg back to health.
(14:48):
Meg calls her aunt Beast. The W's arrive and say
that it is up to Meg to save Charles Wallace,
claiming that she has something it doesn't. She is transported
back to it and realizes it is her love for
Charles Wallace that will save him. Once the hypnosis is broken,
the W's and the rest tester back to Earth to
(15:09):
the Murray Home. A few minutes before they left there,
their mother had a reunion with her husband, and the
W's disappear the end. I loved it. I'm so glad
we chose this lego. I remember, I remember why I
loved this so much. People have written a lot about this,
(15:39):
So we are going to go over some themes, but
just know there's so much written about this, right If
you want to look more.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Into theological studies on this series, oh yes absolutely, But
that does bring us to one of the first themes
I wanted to talk about, which is signed It's in Religion,
because this is a very science heavy book, and it's
really interesting to me that it was aimed at a
(16:11):
young adult audience, but it's talking about like the fifth dimension,
and it has all these scientific principles that they bring in.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
They have all these scientists they bring up. Both Charles
Wallace and Meg are very smart, like scientifically, mathematically all
of that. But then you have these big themes of
religion also in spirituality, so the themes of light and dark,
(16:41):
that's a big one, and the light being like the
love of God or the love of Jesus Christ or
something like that. You do have this moment where the
children are saying of the w's, oh my gosh, you're
guardian angels, and they're kind of like, uh, yeah, but
(17:02):
not really. And I think that's interesting too, because there's
a lot in this book I love about how language
limits ys maybe, or understanding limit says maybe. And it's
fascinating to me just the different ways that ws communicate
(17:26):
because they've been around so long and so having that
idea of maybe this is the best way you can
understand a concept, but that might not necessarily be what
it is, but that's how you understand it. There's also
a big thing throughout the whole book of curiosity and
(17:49):
asking questions, so you know their names, what's it missus? Who? Missus?
Which just having these questions. It is a very creative
story in terms of you know, on this plant as
a two dimensional planet. You know, here they're singing the
(18:11):
song you don't understand, but maybe somebody can interpret it
for you or with missus Beast. You know, she kept
saying to Meg, I don't understand this sea concept that
I don't see. You need to tell me in a
different way, and so asking those questions and trying to
(18:33):
not always arriving at the answers. So here's a quote.
But you see, Meg, just because we don't understand doesn't
mean that the explanation doesn't exist. So there is that
level of it, but there's also a very mysteries of
the universe level of it, like we might never know,
right right, Yeah, here's a quote. We look not at
(18:57):
the things which are what you would call seen, but
at the things which are not seen. For the things
which are seen are temporal, but the things which are
not seen are eternal. Yeah, that was a Missus Beast.
M m hmmm. I like miss Beast. Missus Beast was great, Yes,
(19:19):
And so I did want to put a quick point
in here about the author's views because I was really like, huh,
what's going on here? Because it's got so much science
in it, and it's got all this religion in it.
So Lingol was very interested in modern science. She was
also what was called a liberal Christian or a universal Christian,
(19:41):
and she got a lot of flak for that at
the time from conservative Christians. She got the most flack
for that than from any secular audience. Obviously. Yeah, they
hated that she brought up Buddha. They hated that she
had a happy meat a witch using a crystal ball.
(20:02):
They thought, like the three the W's were witches. And
also universal Christian if you don't know means even if
you don't believe God loves you enough, you're gonna be fine,
which conservative Christians do not like.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
No, Yeah, apparently she attended Episcopal Church, which is a
lot more well known now. But yeah, during the hell
far Burnstone era of these times, that was not so
much alive. But we also know the splintering of different
kinds of religion a bit different sects, and especially like
(20:40):
among the Protestants, that they want it, they love hating
on their own.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So yeah, I've talked about before. Yep, we sure have,
We sure have. And she she wrote a lot of
essays about it and kind of came to terms with it,
and she was a very she had her specific belief
system and I believe she said of this book, this
(21:07):
is like the most religious thing I've ever written, Like
this is the most true to how I feel in
my spiritual beliefs. So she also uses a lot of
names from different religions in the books. So like camizots
is I think, a Mayan god, Uriel obviously, Archangel Malek
(21:32):
is Hebrew, I think. So a lot of a lot
of the names are there in there are very religious,
and she is somebody who was really interested in religion
and studying religion. So that was interesting. And the book
has been on the top one hundred most banned books
list since at least the nineteen nineties for being anti
(21:54):
Christian and promoting witchcraft Bible verses in there. When asked
about this by The New York Times, Lingle said, first
I felt horror than anger, and finally I said, all
the hell with it. It's great publicity. Really she is correct, yep, yep, okay.
(22:21):
So another big theme is conformity versus individuality. So I
wanted to read this quote from the forward by Anna Quinnlin,
Conformity knows no time or place. It is the struggle
all of us face to be ourselves despite the overwhelming
pressure to be like everyone else. Perhaps one of the
(22:42):
most compelling and moving descriptions of that internal battle comes
near the end of the book when Missus Watson tells
the children that life, with its rules, its obligations, and
its freedoms, is like a sonnet. You're given the form,
but you have to write the sonnet yourself. What you
say is completely up to you. This book came out
(23:05):
during the Cold War and America's fear of communism. However,
later interviews and a cut passage from the book revealed
that it is not a commentary on communism so much
as dictatorship and totalitarianism. It also came out after the
growing post World War two suburbia, so we're getting these
(23:27):
blossoming of neighborhoods that do look exactly the same. Yes,
and if you think about the dark thing, there's obviously
the darkness, the light versus dark, but it's also kind
of the conformity of it's taking away, it's shadowing your uniqueness,
(23:52):
it's flattening things, it's holding earth back. And there is
a through line through the book of when conforming or
following the rules hold you back. And so one of
the examples that really suck out to me is Meg
is talking about doing her math home work. Now she's really,
really good at it, but the teacher always docks her
(24:15):
because she doesn't she doesn't show her work in the
way he thinks she should show her work. And this
happened to me in high school.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
It happened to me in middle school.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
It's what I was the only one who got the
answer right, and the teacher brought me up to the
board to show everybody, and I did it, and he
was like, how did you do that? I said, well, look,
I just did it. I was saying what I was
doing it. And he was like, but that doesn't make sense,
and I said, well, I got the right answer.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Apparently it does me.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
It did to me, but it didn't make sense to
anybody else. I guess, you know, sometimes it works that way,
and it's okay, yes, yeah, So that being an instance
of conforming holding her back, like she's having to spend
more time to do it in this one specific way.
And then the language I do, Like I said, I
(25:14):
I love that aspect of this where and this is
a really popular something that's popularly explored in science fiction
books is when we don't have the words for things
and they exist, but we just the language isn't there
(25:35):
to describe it. And so I love that with the
Wus and how they communicate, and I love how they're
trying to communicate with these kids from Earth who have
this kind of because language can put your thoughts in
a box if you're not careful, like because you don't
(25:55):
have the words for something, then you can you're like,
well that doesn't exist, but it might and you just
don't have the words for it yet. So here's a quote.
It's in miss Witch's voice, and I'm not going to
do it, but she is kind of like an embodied
ghostly voice. Everybody, there will no longer be so many
(26:17):
pleasant things to look at if responsible people do not
do something about the unpleasant ones. Yes, and then there's
this whole idea of taking away choice or relinquishing choice,
and you know, maybe doing that willfully or not. Here's
(26:39):
a quote from it. You see, what you will soon
realize is that there is no need to fight me.
Not only is there no need, but you will not
have the slightest desire to do so. For why should
you wish to fight someone who is here only to
save you pain and trouble for you, as well as
for the rest of all of the happy, useful people
(27:01):
on this planet I and my own strength am willing
to assume all the pain, all the responsibility, all the
burdens of thought and decision. So obviously this is a
been a theme that has been explored in a lot
of things. One that has through like the test of time.
(27:25):
I remember is a book I got at the book fair,
which the book fair was awesome, by the way, still around.
I'd loved the book fair. It was like the most
exciting thing. But there was a series called pen Dragon,
and it was It was a series where in the
main character would go to different planets and try to
(27:48):
save them from falling. I like a like some historical
point that they point of no return, you try to stop.
And I think for the first four books success, but
like I think it's the fifth one. The fourth or
fifth one. He goes to this planet where they invent
(28:09):
like a pod you can get into and you can
live like a virtual life, and you know, it looks
like it's going on all great and all this stuff,
and then in the end everybody chooses to go into
the pod, even though they know they'll die, because they'd
rather live their virtual life than live their real life.
(28:31):
And I've never forgotten it that was the first planet
he lost. Yea, yes, it's dark right, They all even
and he was like, don't you know you'll die? Like
I don't care. I don't care. Oh my gosh. And
I'm like a twelve year old reading this thing. Oh no,
(28:55):
but it's one of those things where you can't like.
When I was reading that book, I was thinking, their
their virtual lives do sound really nice. They would describe
them like, oh, it's a matrix for kids, exactly exactly.
It got me. I still remember it. I still remember
(29:17):
if anybody's read Pin Dragon.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I have never read Pin Dragon, but I did. We
were driving by a bus in our little town near
us and they had a giant truck for the book
fair art there unloading books.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yaych Elastic book Fair made me very happy.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yes, oh, I loved it so much. Another part of
this whole thing is embracing your weirdness. So if you're
fighting against the conformity of it all, embracing your weirdness,
(29:59):
and it go out of its way to show that
children being taught conform me. They're being taught it from
a very young age that you should this is how
you should be. If you're not that, then something is
wrong with you. You've got Meg being bullied for not being
smart enough or pretty enough, even though she's, like we've said,
(30:21):
very smart, she just doesn't do it in the quote
traditional way. Here's a quote. But of course, we can't
take any credits for our talents. It's how we use
them that counts. And then here's another one, Meg, I
give you your faults, my faults. Meg cried your faults, but
I'm always trying to get rid of my faults. Yes, missus,
(30:45):
what's it said? However, I think you'll find they'll come
in very handy on camasots. And they did, yeah, because
the brain didn't know what to do. It was like
whoa had to deal with this before? And then you
can see like it's a real air of paranoia on Camus.
(31:08):
Eye's everybody being worried that people are trying to catch
them out for not conforming that they're going to be reprocessed.
So having those faults are that uniqueness being erased by
fear or controlled by fear. There's also some ableism in
(31:29):
it because Charles Wallace is four years old. I believe
he's young, and he's very smart, but he only really
talks to his family, and there's just a lot of
rumors that something is wrong with him and his development.
(31:49):
And I think Meg also got some of those. I
haven't been talking about the twins much because they're barely
they're siblings of twins, because they're barely there in this book.
But they were sort of the quote normal ones. But yeah,
there's an air of that as well. And then you know,
also fighting conformity. We've got some weird role models who
(32:12):
are women perhaps because this is another thing I like
about science fiction. They present as women on earth, but
they also transform, potentially change genders. And I know I
talked about this with Octavia Butler, but Octavia Butler wrote
(32:32):
about this a lot in her books about again, if
the language doesn't exist, like we're still in kind of
a binary perhaps, but there's all this other stuff that,
you know, maybe that's not what we were, and we
just that they were, and we don't have the word
for it, yeah, or the understanding for it yet, right, Yes,
(32:56):
and they are billions of years old, billion eOne. We'll
talk about that. That she was a star, Yes, this
is what's it. Yeah, And so they would have such
a different understanding of things than all of us would have,
(33:17):
all of us mere humans would have. I think about
this a lot with Yoda, like he must have a
completely different maybe nine hundred years old right then, and
people different like humans die so young compared to I
(33:38):
don't know. I do think about this, yes, yeah, well
I have to. I have to. And also yeah, through that,
through all of that challenging what you think, and they
do often ask the kids questions like what do you
think of this? Or do you think this? Are just
(34:02):
pushing them to really consider and I kind of love
that there. They don't back down. They're like, no, really
think about this. You've kind of made me angry with
what you said, actually, so I want you to think
about it. And then kind of going off of that
(34:24):
at the end, when Meg has to go, she's the
one that they say, You're the one that asks to
go to Camusots to rescue Charles Wallace and her dad
and Calvin are both like, no, way, it's me or
she's not going alone, and it's the three ws that
are like, no, she can do it. She's gonna do it.
You can't do it. And so I kind of liked
(34:48):
that flip because it could come off as pretty brutal
that they're selling no, send this young girl right there
by herself. But instead they're no, she can do it,
and we're not gonna hold her back, right, yes, And
that brings us to the power of love. This is
(35:09):
what saves Charles Wallace. This is what Meg realizes, Oh,
this is what I have that not only the brain
it doesn't have, but her father doesn't have because he
wasn't really there. He didn't know Charles Wallace. Calvin doesn't
have right. She was the one that loved Charles Wallace
(35:34):
and he loved her, and he loved her. Yeah, and
they were siblings who really saw each other and had
a connection. And we're both outcasts but understood each other.
Like Charles Wallace will say stuff completely out of nowhere
(35:54):
and Meg would just be like, all right, yeah, sure,
let's go. Okay, I believe you. And this brings us
to my final point. I would say, as I mentioned,
you can read so much about these books, but I
wanted to just say the importance of childhood books like this,
(36:16):
the importance of the book fair, the importance of something
that you read and means so much to you. And
this book has a lot of themes about coming of
age at your own time, on your own terms, feeling
less alone, and as a reader, you feel less alone
(36:38):
reading it. It also has a theme of when you
realize your parents aren't perfect. Because Meg thought her dad,
like finding her dad would fix everything, he would fix everything,
and she gets kind of mad him because he, in
her mind, left Charles Walls behind and then he's not
the one that can save him. She is, but also
(37:01):
that you are not perfect and that's okay. So like
giving men her faults and being like, nope, this is
what's this is what's going to say to you. And
it is really cool to see how many people of
all types were impacted by this book and how young
people today are still reading it. I was reading a
(37:21):
Smithsonian article about it, and it was just so many
people have mentioned this book. Without this book, I don't
know if I would have done what I did, and
so that's amazing and I do too. I do too.
I'm so glad we chose this book.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I'm glad to read it as an adult and not
a prejudiced Christian child.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I was glad to read it as an adult too,
because it does have some pretty big concepts in it.
And I after I read it, I thought, oh, I
think I understood this well enough as a child, but
I really understand it. Yeah now as an adult. It's
just fantastic. Well listeners, please let us know if you
(38:14):
have any thoughts about this book, or any books that
you feel had a huge impact on your childhood, We
would love to know. You can email us at Hello
at stuffonnevertold you dot com. You can find us on
Polu Scott Mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok
at Stuff I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube.
We have merchandise at Common Bureau, and we have a
book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
(38:35):
as always too, our super just Christine, our executive Bruce,
to my an contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to
you for listening Stuff I've Never Told you this prediction
of my Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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