February 25, 2026 • 37 mins
Climate justice activist Mikaela Loach's 2025 book Climate is Just the Start tackles climate change with unflinching truth and hope. Anney and Samantha go over some themes and why this work is important.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and smitha I'm looking to stuff
Never Told You production of I Heard You, And today
we are actually doing the thing we always say we're
going to do when it comes to book club. We
(00:25):
are talking about a book written by someone recently featured
on Activists around the World. Ah, we always say we're
going to do it and then it gets on the list.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
But here we are, we're doing it.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Follow them.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes and yes, you can see our recent Activist around
the World episode that we did on Mikayla Loach where
we did say we would be discussing this book. Loach's
twenty twenty five work Climate is just the start and
reminder from that episode. Loach is a black climate justice
activist and organizer based out of the UK who has
(01:01):
just done so much to get her message out there,
including writing books like this one. And this work is
aimed specifically towards young folks who have grown up hearing
doom and gloom frankly messaging around climate change. But it's
really hopeful and it offers solutions for change. But it's
also very like, I understand why you feel the way.
(01:26):
The book feels very much like a conversation. Her writing
is really open, it's really friendly. When the book opens,
she introduces herself in a very personable way. It describes
her own feelings of guilt for her own safety when
others are struggling, and wanting to fight that on fairness.
(01:46):
She originally thought that being a doctor was the way
that she could help because she'd never been exposed to
activism when she was younger, or at least not that
she registered. But once she was exposed to activism, especially
activism around the climate crisis, she started meeting up with
activist and engaging with them in a number of ways.
(02:07):
This book gives a very succinct, clear breakdown of climate change,
climate activism, and what we can.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Do about it.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It is geared towards eight to twelve year olds, but
honestly I find it really helpful too. There are illustrations
throughout as well to help make the point clear, to
bring it home, and poetry breaks because the topics are heavy.
This kind of reminded me of when we were writing
our book and we were like, we should put in
a little little breaks. Yeah, yes, exactly. On top of that,
(02:38):
she uses specific stories from people in different locations about
the myriad of ways climate change is impacting them. Just
for an example of how friendly her tone is. Here's
a quote. We'll have to go back in time to
work this out, which means we're going to hop into
Mikayla's time machine. It's pink, my favorite color. Fun fact,
I pretty much only wear pink, and it's powered by
(03:01):
feelings of curiosity, passion, and imagination. We're going to do
this a lot throughout the book, so buckle up. It
feels to me when I was reading it, it's like
a personal letter waiting for response, you know, It's like
you have a pen pal or something.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, Like, I think she does a great job. I
don't think we talked much about this during our conversation
about her specifically in our activists around the world, but
she did talk about the importance and she doesn't talk
about it in the book, and I'm sure we're going
to discuss it in a second. But the way that
she loves pink and is kind of one of her things,
a signature for her, and the reasons behind it and
(03:35):
why it's so important that she can be I think
we did kind of mention that soft black girl aesthetic
and how that is important to her. So also not
being ashamed of something that she loves that can sometimes
be seen as a weakness. It's like it's both levels.
So I do love that, and I was telling you
earlier I had bought the book from our local bookstore,
(03:56):
Caras Books. But I also love like hearing the audio version,
especially when the authors are the ones who read it themselves.
And in this recording, it's her glorious. Her voice is
very soothing and kind. She should be doing this as
part of her job as well, because like she does
a great job in relaying everything she's writing. And then again,
(04:18):
like I said, she's got one of those perfect voices.
Her accent in general is just soothing in itself. So
if y'all have the time and you want to listen
to it and don't have the like physicality of sitting
down and reading, or you know, aren't able to, it's
a great option because she does voices herself and it's
really nice. It is a soothing as you think it is.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is this book tackles
such big ideas and explains them in their simplest forms,
but in a way that is very It's not patronizing
at all.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's just like, we don't have.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Time to get into the whole thing here, but very basically,
here's what we're talking about. But she does do it
in a way, like I said, that is it's very
it's very kind, it's very understanding, but it's also very
accepting of Yes, this is a difficult topic and it's scary,
(05:20):
and I'm not saying you shouldn't feel that, but also
don't let that stop you and don't let you yourself
freeze and fear because of that. Yeah, it's very hopeful,
and it's about two hundred pages, I think, and this
is going to be a bit of a shorter episode
(05:41):
because I could explain climate change to you, but I
feel like you should pick up the book yourself. But
a lot of it is those kind of definitions and
things like that, So definitely go check it out. As
I said, I found it extremely useful for myself and
I even feel like I have a good grasp on
(06:03):
these concepts.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
But yes, we're not going to get into.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
The the whole science of climate change in this one, No, no,
no no, But we do have some things we wanted
to discuss and one of the big, perhaps the biggest
themes of this book is environmental justice, and that is
kind of where Loach aligns a lot of her work,
(06:30):
And we've talked about that a lot before, because, like everything,
the environment is intersectional and there's a lot of things
going on there. But yes, beyond these basic facts of
climate change, of how it works and what's fueling it, consumption,
(06:50):
the history, colonization, racism, sexism, white supremacy, reparations, capitalism, like
these are the topics she's she's delving into in this book,
which are all obviously related, but I feel like sometimes
we sanitize it for kids. But she she's like, no,
(07:11):
this is why, this is why it's happening. This is
all of that. So here are a couple quotes. One is, sorry,
I've never heard of this. Have you ever heard of
the Overton window?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I have not. I mean, this book really helps, like
I know this for kids. But this is also where
we talk about how education is not great in public schools,
and it is like authors and researchers and activists like
her that teach us a lot. I wish we had known.
I had known as a kid. I'm like, oh my god,
know what it is?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I did not know.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Nope, me either, me either. All right, So quote, the
Overton window is a tool for identifying ideas a majority
of people find sensible, popular, or acceptable. Think of it
like a vibe check, but for the whole country or
the whole world. Governments, politicians, and activists all use it
to measure the possibility for chain at a moment and
time on an issue, would people find it unthinkable, radical,
(08:04):
maybe popular? For any given issue, the closer the Overton
window gets to the middle, the more likely a government
will have the opportunity to change laws or change policy
about it. I wanted to include this because I've actually
I've thought about this stuff a lot, and I didn't
know it was a thing, Like I know it was
a thing, but I didn't know there was a term,
but like that idea of we just need to get
(08:26):
enough people to be on board with this, and then
we could finally change But keeping that in mind of
always questioning are enough people on board with this, right, well,
they go along? So I when I read that, I
was I felt kind of a huh, yes that. And then,
(08:52):
as there should be in any discussion about climate change.
There is a lot of discussion about capitalism in this book,
and we have a couple quotes throughout the episode about it.
But here's one Capitalism is like a giant python wrapped
around us and the world, squeezing out everything it possibly can.
(09:14):
It is that strong and that powerful. And now that
I've explained a little bit about what it is, let's
end this chapter with a thought about what it means
for our future. Simply put, capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with
the continuation of human life on Earth. That's a strong statement.
There's no way around it. For capitalism to ultimately succeed,
(09:35):
the majority of life on Earth would have to die.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, Like I said, she doesn't shy away from the truth,
but she's also has a hopeful like we can change it, right, it.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Doesn't have to be this way.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
One of the things I thought about this book in
conversation in general, is that we don't hear often what
capitalism can do, especially when you're growing up again. I've
been out of high school in midle school for a while,
but when we learned about capitalism, it just seemed like
a natural progress of like understanding that this is how
you succeed m m, but how it really is not
(10:14):
as great as you think it is, Like you don't
learn that to your adulthood. So she's really putting it
out there as a way, like a let's teach the
young what this actually looks like, especially today.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, and I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I think that being exposed to that idea when you're younger,
and I as much as our education system is under
siege right now of trying to get rid of any
materials that don't paint like the white supremacists past, I
do think that the younger, younger folks today are they're
having more questions than I was at that age.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I think, yeah, yeah, I mean that social media is connecting.
And I will say when I was reading this book,
I was just thinking that one of is such timing
with what we're seeing in the youth doing today, with
the protests and like, because to me, this book, yes,
is about all the changes and learning these things, but
it also was a call on how to do activism correctly.
(11:14):
And I was like, oh, and I think I've seen
a lot of youth really doing it right, like they
are really getting it right, and very proud to see
the younger generations, maybe with all of the other things
that we're so disheartened by seeing kids who understand what
is to have morality and stand up for others. And
I feel like books like these are so important to
kind of align people to understand because she talks about
(11:34):
organizing and I was like, oh, this is so important.
How do we get this book out there? Because part
of that is that conversation too.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yes, yes, absolutely, And she does have, like as with
a lot of books like this, she has a lot
of good resources and she has a lot of good
tips on how to organize and ways to if you're
feeling guilt, how you can alleviate that, even small way
or way all the different ways that can look which well, yeah,
(12:03):
we'll discuss more.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
In a second.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Another thing she really hammers home also can't talk about
climate changer without talking about this, is that, yes, it
hurts some people more than others, and specifically marginalized communities.
That hurts marginalized communities more than others. And I thought
it was interesting because she does this kind of reflecting
(12:35):
of when she was a kid and how she felt.
And one of the things she kept bringing up was unfairness,
that it was unfair, but also big emotions, which we
are going to come back to as well on the second.
But you know, when you're a kid, those kind of
(12:56):
it does feel unfair and it maybe it does feel
too big and your emotions are too big. But here's
a quote. It's because some people want more money for
themselves and do not care if the rest of us
live or die. That might be a difficult thing to hear.
Maybe it feels to you like one of those situations
that just doesn't make sense, and you're right, it doesn't.
(13:19):
But the people in charge of fossil fuel companies have
proven over and over again that they don't care about
anyone but themselves, no matter what their fancy advertisements might say. So,
once again, getting to telling the youth at an early age,
these companies don't care about you. They do not care
about you at all. They don't care about anybody except themselves.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
That is it.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And this also really resonated with me. Here's a quote.
While we spend hours squeezing our homemade oat milk, these
polluting giants pump millions of barrels of oil from the ground.
While we obsess over our individual impacts and sit in guilt.
The companies and governments that wachas and de carbon heavy
lifestyles are getting away with it. Sure, some guilt can
(14:06):
be helpful, especially for those of us in highly polluting countries,
but I don't think it's the best motivator. I just
because she has this whole thing where she's trying so
hard to minimize her impact, she's making her own oatmel,
she's going out of her way. And then yeah, but
(14:28):
at the end of the day, Yeah, she.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Does an amazing job in this conversation, because I think
we've all felt this when we start learning about an
issue and we take a deep dive and we get
overwhelmed by the horrors that we see. And also she's
undoing years of the gas lighting that these companies did
to our generation, specifically telling us if we recycle, and
she talks about this and if we use paper straws,
(14:53):
if we did these, then yes, you could help the environment.
It's not us. When again she's like, seventy percent of
all this waste and pollution is done by corporations, not us,
And sure, like we all want to be better, but
like trying to put that responsiblity back on us and
not on them while they still make money and cost havoc.
It's like a whole new level. So a lot of
these times when I was thinking, like, if these kids
(15:15):
are reading this book, they're going to come back and
tell their mom and they're recycling, Like that doesn't matter,
Like coming back with the understanding that this is actually
a falsehood, don't stop, and we should still want to
do better. Nonetheless, but then the conversation comes back to
revealing the truth that took us a long time. Like
literally we would just yell at each other about how
(15:38):
we were being wasteful. You're you know, you're letting out
all the air, You're causing us to do all these
things that are bad for the environment. But in actuality,
it's not us. Like it's still not great, and we
still need to do better, but it's not the big picture.
We're talking in small pictures. We're talking about the gaslighting
that has happened for years. I still think about Man
thirty Rocks really been on my mind. Apparently already Rock
(16:00):
did an episode of like are you just gonna put
a green peacock on the corner of the screen, say
you're doing your part to keep everything, you know, clean
up the environment, and that's what you're doing. NBC Okay,
like they make fun of themselves, but it's actually very
true that it was their doing, and this was their
kind of solution, which they talk about greenwashing, which we've
talked about pink washing and all of that, and I
think we've talked about greenwashing as well. But like it is,
(16:23):
it's true, like she really goes after it, like a
is so overwhelming the things that you think you need
to be doing, But the actual big conversation is going
after the big wigs. And I thought about that with
like the child labor laws and all of the labor
laws that happened around the world and talking about it's
not really us just it. Don't get me wrong, Yes,
(16:43):
boycotting is very, very very good, and we need to
but it's the bigger picture of like going after the
companies and come and holding them responsible, penalizing them, arresting them,
doing the things that need to be done. But yeah,
I really enjoyed the fact that she was able to
call that out but also talk about her own experien
is of like filling the overwhelming responsibility on harge hid
(17:05):
and do everything she can and then having in the
light bulb moment of like, oh, oh here's the truth
of the matter.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think I've talked about this before.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
But I was really big into like that was one
of the clubs I joined at my university was about
the environments.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
It was kind of a big thing for me.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
But when I would get really depressed, I would think,
like it was the most sad thoughts, but it was like,
how many resources I'm taking up? If I just wasn't here,
how much better.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Would the world be?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
And I believed it, but it would be so minuscule
compared to.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
What these companies are doing.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, that's how kind of successful they were with their
gaslighting and their greenwashing and their well, if you just
basically stop existing in our modern world.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
That's maybe maybe.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Another thing.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So, like I said, she has these stories from people
who have been highly affected by climate change. One of
the ones that really stuck out to me was about
her childhood beach in Jamaica, and it was like her
favorite beach and she had these really nostalgic memories of it,
and during the pandemic, she went to visit it and
(18:41):
hadn't been there in a while, and it was just
a race, like it was gone because of the water
coming in and because of climate change. And she compares
that to another story of somebody else she interviewed and
or talked to you or was a friend with and
(19:01):
they had a similar thing. And there was a quote
in there that really stuck out to me, is learning
to live with the pain of like it just yeah,
the beach is gone and now it's rocks, and so
when we go to it, it hurts.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
But that's we have to learn to live with the pain.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And there's a lot of discussion about health as well
and how it impacts health, especially of kids, and also
everything like everything your daily life, your the food growth
around you and thus your health, livelihoods, leisure, just.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
That learning to live with the pain.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's like everything every day you can't escape it, and
it's also really interconnected. I think this was a good
I read a really good essay about this when I
was in college that just I still think about. But
you know, for some of us, at least for me,
when I I used to go to the grocery store,
(20:01):
I didn't think twice about where anything came from. And
the story was about the essay was about like all
of the violence behind the like orange I was picking
up and I just never knew. I didn't even think
to ask about where the orange came from, and so
a lot of this she breaks she really breaks down
(20:24):
of like where did this fabric come from? Who did
the work? How did it get shipped here? Like what
ask yourself these questions, and just a real breakdown of
like the amount of waste we generate, just things that
never get sold, yeah, and choices that we make.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah. It was alarming, like the Mountain, Like will you
hear the statistics and you just it just makes.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You angry, Yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You have no control of it, Like you see how
the discussing it is. And for the adults, we've known
these statistics a little more or at least a chunk
of it, like for those who have been in this industry,
but hearing it every time stills feel still disheartening because
we know that truth has been out there, that it
came out as like a shock factor, like oh and
(21:17):
I think like maybe probably ten percent of change, Like
some grocery stores finally figured it out and they're like, oh,
oh yeah, we will donate to local shelters. Then we
got you after being called out for all the bad practices,
arresting people forgetting trash like what they consider trash rather
that is just so disheartening to hear and then like
(21:38):
how it could be easily solved, and the fact that
there's a solution and it's still not been completed. That's
when you just want to start throwing things.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
No, it's very frustrating. And she really does go through
like the It was kind of funny because I forgot
about that. Uh, just the journal with the voice activated password.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
She talks about I had one of those two.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Oh did you I think this was after my.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Oh so cool, But she says in there, like, you know,
two weeks later, I didn't use it ever.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Again she was talking about. I was like, I had
no idea. What what did she say? It was okay,
so wow, okay, yeah, I was still in the kyles
for the lock and key thing.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yet, but she she was basically saying that as a
way to frame like how long are you gonna want
this thing?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yeah, I mean the amount of waste that's privileged people
have is insane, insane and like actually, but there are
those moments no no excuse that I'm like, damn.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
It, I threw it out like that one time.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I finally can use anything like damn it.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, I tossed it yeah, I told the.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
One that pumps in my head every time like that
one time I needed it and not throw it out.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, but I mean if you have it, then if
you can use it in a different way or she's
a big proponent of that too.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
But it did make me laugh. But that's where my
head went first, thing, yes, or seeing how much of
value could be You're like.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Oh, make me money, and you're like, you came, that's right,
that's greed. Sorry, moving on, it's all right, No, but yeah,
I did think about that, especially when you talking about
fast clothing and we've talked about that as well, and
of course, like she also is really great about talking
about what you can afford affordability versus what you are
(23:52):
privileged to be able to abstain from, yep, and how
to do how to work that out of course, like
things like Goodwill and all that exists obviously to help
us in the US internationally. No, that's a whole different story.
But like when you have consignment stores that aren't making
try to make profit, but it is better for the environment,
(24:12):
and you can look at that finding different ways. But
it is also about like some people can only afford
the prices of things at Walmart, like to have the
sustainability or they have coupons in these areas and they
have to use it here. Like the accessibility is a
big part of the conversation, and she does a really
great job and making sure she addresses that as well,
(24:33):
because I've thought about that with like clothing and such,
because you don't get some availabilities. You can't find it
at department stores because they are outsized or like not
accessible for people with disabilities, as that they can't even
get in like stuff like that in this level of
like okay, or they're not able to shop long periods
of time, stuff like that In this conversation is also
an understanding that the accessibility is important, whether it's from
(24:56):
being able to afford it to physically being able to
get to their in this level of conversation.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Here is another quote putting the blame on humans are
all of us is far too vague. It feeds into
the same cycles of guilt and shame that can be
super unhelpful. When one hundred companies are responsible for seventy
one percent of climate crisis causing emissions since nineteen eighty eight,
and the richest one percent of the world's population produce
more than double the carbon emissions of the poorest half
(25:29):
of the world. We did not cause the climate crisis.
To say any of these catch off words to allocate
responsibility is to let the small percentage of people who
are actually responsible off the hook. We can't afford to
do that, And then continues when we talk about responsibility,
when we talk about consumption, it's not as simple as
(25:49):
it might seem at first. Those who can afford to
or are able to make more climate friendly changes should
make those changes. We will all have to live our
lives differently in order to meet climate targets, and we
should all be open to change. But a lot of
these changes, like insulating homes, aren't accessible to most people now,
so we need to persuade governments to make them accessible
(26:12):
rather than guilting or putting the responsibility on the people
who don't have a choice in the matter. So going
back to your point, Smith, Yes, yes, one thing we're
not going to go too deep into in this conversation,
but I did want to mention is that she discusses
the money that went into from these companies that went
(26:35):
into climate denial of basically saying climate change is not real?
What are you talking about? Which was a big thing
when I was in college.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I remember this.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, I mean they might be in our offices now
like governmental forces now they want to misuse the term
global warming and you want to just smack them. Maybe
we should give them this book they can under comprehend.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
They would never read it. We would have to trick them.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It wouldn't get arrested.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
To you, yes, yes, But I didn't want to put
that in there because I'm interested to see how younger
folks if that's still as big as it was when.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
I was young, right, what they see?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Mm hmmm mm hm, Any listeners, let us know. But
I remember having this debate in college. I was in
a debate class. So our final theme is hope, because,
(27:50):
as we've said, this is a really hopeful book. It's
really palpable how hopeful she is and how important she thinks.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
That hope is. When it comes to this.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
She tackles these ideas of it's too late, we can't
do anything, it's too late, and giving up and she says, nope,
absolutely not. And here's a quote tackling the roots, toppling
and composting the tree of injustice and oppression. That is
(28:21):
climate justice work. It's not simple or easy, but it
is worth doing. It is also possible. So she has
this metaphor for this tree that's rotting and people, you know,
might try taking off some of the leaves, or they
might try taking off some of the branches, but the
roots are the problem and it's killing the whole like
(28:44):
every other tree, everything else that tries to grow. So
we've got to go to the roots of the problem.
And yes, as I said, not letting fear control you.
She really throughout the book makes the point about reminding
you of that.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Here's a quote.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
My dad made it clear that I didn't have to
and couldn't fix everything, but he also said that didn't
mean I couldn't do anything at all. And that moment
I understood that you don't have to be a perfect
hero to take action. Whatever we can do matters. If
we can save one person, make one life a bit
better or a bit safer, it matters. How could that
(29:26):
not matter? Yeah, it was a really cute story she did,
like a bake sale.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
We kind of mentioned it actually in the act part
where she kind of started her origins. But I think
she does a great job. Throughout the book. You talked
about her metaphors and illustrations, and here and then she
does a great job in several ways and breaking down
different ways, talking about catalysts and talking about colonialization. She
(29:54):
gives it a bit good way of like understanding what
this is for any parents or aunties or any of
the people who have children in their lives. I think
this is a great book. I think making sure you
have a discussion at the beginning at the end of
this so that they don't get overwhelmed in all of
this information, because it can be overwhelming to see, especially
(30:15):
like an empathetic child like that. Yeah, that's the hardest
in trying to let them understand how big this is.
But I really think she does a great job and
breaking down things that we should have learned as a
kid to begin with. But of course corporations would not
want you to this, absolutely, it would be one of
those things that people would say was woke, which is
(30:37):
not a bad thing again, but it's just that level
of like this is a great way in cultivating someone
who you know could be a great activist.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I think yes, absolutely, And going back to what you
said and what I mentioned, earlier is that this book
is pretty heavy in ways, and she does talk about
having big feelings, and so I wanted to read two
quotes about it because I just think they're so important.
(31:11):
Maybe these situations have made you feel really sad. I
know I still cry regularly when I hear news about
our climate crisis, read stories about injustice, or learn about
a tragedy on social media. My heart breaks often when
asking questions about things that don't make sense in our world.
Has anyone ever told you, look, it's just the way
the world is, or that's something you'll understand when you're older.
(31:34):
I was a kid who asked lots of questions and
adults would answer me like this. I asked but why
a lot? And I was rarely satisfied with the response.
I couldn't help wondering why is this just the way
the world is? Honestly why? But lots of adults wouldn't
want to get into it, and something seemed different about them.
(31:56):
They cried less than I did, and sure sometimes for
understanding reasons, but they also felt less and that was
celebrated like it was a good thing, like it was
better to not feel things deeply, to not cry or
be moved by injustice, but instead to look through or
past it. This made no sense to me. It still doesn't.
If someone is so tough that they never cry about anything,
(32:20):
this is seen as strength. If someone can witness or
experience something sad, scary, or tragic and seem untroubled by it,
this is somehow rewarded as bravery. I see it differently.
I think it's braver to feel heartbreak, even if it hurts.
I love that so much because you know, not only
(32:42):
could we talk about that in terms of toxic masculinity,
but I completely agree. I think it's much harder to
have your heart broken over and over again. And I
think people in any kind of activism work or work
where you care about other people, it requires that, and
(33:05):
that's a strength, that's a It's difficult, and so I'm
really glad that she made sure to put this in there,
and too, you know, for the readers who are probably younger,
a lot of them say, it doesn't make sense to
(33:27):
me either, This makes no sense.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
You should care. Why would you not care?
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean, she definitely puts it in a great way
of saying, make sure you know what you feel like,
feel those big feelings but don't get overwhelmed by those feelings,
which is a hard place to be, Like, trying to
figure that out can be a tricky, tricky part.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Oh yeah, and I mean, I'm sure the listeners of
this show, no, we know, but it's hard when you're
trying to make change when everything's so bad, or even
just talk about what's going on and everything is so bad,
and sometimes that does mean, you know what, I'm going
(34:07):
to take a day, just gonna pause for a minute,
but not to not like bury.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Those feelings and never confront them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
She talks about how doing things like pick it out
in poetry, write it out, feel that those feelings, get
those moments, but also understand you are not wholly responsible
for this situation.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yes, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
And then to end, she perhaps obviously is a big
proponent of working together of community, of how we can
make change through that, and how your activism can inspire
others to do the same, and then the movement gets
(34:55):
bigger because their activism will expire inspire other people to
do the same. Of having these connections and imagination. I
love that she has a whole section about, you know,
imagining a better world without limitations, like don't that kind
of child imagination. Don't put those limitations on yourself, and
(35:18):
move beyond like systems like capitalism. And she even includes
examples of how that's looked of certain societies where that
has happened. So it's not like it can't happen, so
just to take those limitations off. And she ends on
(35:38):
this really hopeful message of the power of young people.
And here's a final quote. Hope is active. Hope is alive,
but only if we organize to keep it that way.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, it's a fantastic read. It's really good.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Yes, really, if you're in the car to get Yeah,
it's available on all the platforms, so if you have
any access to that, you should definitely do that. But
also you should buy the book at independent bookstore if
you can to get the illustrations.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, the illustrations are cute. Yes, so go check it out,
really really really recommend Yes. Would love to hear from listeners.
If you have read it, or if you have any
suggestions about.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
What we should do next.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
You can email us at Hello at Stuffnever Told You
dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
mol Stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff
I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have
some merchandise that Common Hero, and we have a book
you can get where you get your books. Thanks. It's
always to our super producer Re Senior Executive produced, my
indercontributor Joey.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Thank you and thanks to you for.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Listening Stuff Never Told You Prediction by Heart Radio. For
more podcast from my heart Radio, you can check out
the Heart Radio Act, Apple podcast or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows there whom you f
Hey, this is Anny and smitha I'm looking to stuff
Never Told You production of I Heard You, And today
we are actually doing the thing we always say we're
going to do when it comes to book club. We
(00:25):
are talking about a book written by someone recently featured
on Activists around the World. Ah, we always say we're
going to do it and then it gets on the list.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
But here we are, we're doing it.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Follow them.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes and yes, you can see our recent Activist around
the World episode that we did on Mikayla Loach where
we did say we would be discussing this book. Loach's
twenty twenty five work Climate is just the start and
reminder from that episode. Loach is a black climate justice
activist and organizer based out of the UK who has
(01:01):
just done so much to get her message out there,
including writing books like this one. And this work is
aimed specifically towards young folks who have grown up hearing
doom and gloom frankly messaging around climate change. But it's
really hopeful and it offers solutions for change. But it's
also very like, I understand why you feel the way.
(01:26):
The book feels very much like a conversation. Her writing
is really open, it's really friendly. When the book opens,
she introduces herself in a very personable way. It describes
her own feelings of guilt for her own safety when
others are struggling, and wanting to fight that on fairness.
(01:46):
She originally thought that being a doctor was the way
that she could help because she'd never been exposed to
activism when she was younger, or at least not that
she registered. But once she was exposed to activism, especially
activism around the climate crisis, she started meeting up with
activist and engaging with them in a number of ways.
(02:07):
This book gives a very succinct, clear breakdown of climate change,
climate activism, and what we can.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Do about it.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It is geared towards eight to twelve year olds, but
honestly I find it really helpful too. There are illustrations
throughout as well to help make the point clear, to
bring it home, and poetry breaks because the topics are heavy.
This kind of reminded me of when we were writing
our book and we were like, we should put in
a little little breaks. Yeah, yes, exactly. On top of that,
(02:38):
she uses specific stories from people in different locations about
the myriad of ways climate change is impacting them. Just
for an example of how friendly her tone is. Here's
a quote. We'll have to go back in time to
work this out, which means we're going to hop into
Mikayla's time machine. It's pink, my favorite color. Fun fact,
I pretty much only wear pink, and it's powered by
(03:01):
feelings of curiosity, passion, and imagination. We're going to do
this a lot throughout the book, so buckle up. It
feels to me when I was reading it, it's like
a personal letter waiting for response, you know, It's like
you have a pen pal or something.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, Like, I think she does a great job. I
don't think we talked much about this during our conversation
about her specifically in our activists around the world, but
she did talk about the importance and she doesn't talk
about it in the book, and I'm sure we're going
to discuss it in a second. But the way that
she loves pink and is kind of one of her things,
a signature for her, and the reasons behind it and
(03:35):
why it's so important that she can be I think
we did kind of mention that soft black girl aesthetic
and how that is important to her. So also not
being ashamed of something that she loves that can sometimes
be seen as a weakness. It's like it's both levels.
So I do love that, and I was telling you
earlier I had bought the book from our local bookstore,
(03:56):
Caras Books. But I also love like hearing the audio version,
especially when the authors are the ones who read it themselves.
And in this recording, it's her glorious. Her voice is
very soothing and kind. She should be doing this as
part of her job as well, because like she does
a great job in relaying everything she's writing. And then again,
(04:18):
like I said, she's got one of those perfect voices.
Her accent in general is just soothing in itself. So
if y'all have the time and you want to listen
to it and don't have the like physicality of sitting
down and reading, or you know, aren't able to, it's
a great option because she does voices herself and it's
really nice. It is a soothing as you think it is.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is this book tackles
such big ideas and explains them in their simplest forms,
but in a way that is very It's not patronizing
at all.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's just like, we don't have.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Time to get into the whole thing here, but very basically,
here's what we're talking about. But she does do it
in a way, like I said, that is it's very
it's very kind, it's very understanding, but it's also very
accepting of Yes, this is a difficult topic and it's scary,
(05:20):
and I'm not saying you shouldn't feel that, but also
don't let that stop you and don't let you yourself
freeze and fear because of that. Yeah, it's very hopeful,
and it's about two hundred pages, I think, and this
is going to be a bit of a shorter episode
(05:41):
because I could explain climate change to you, but I
feel like you should pick up the book yourself. But
a lot of it is those kind of definitions and
things like that, So definitely go check it out. As
I said, I found it extremely useful for myself and
I even feel like I have a good grasp on
(06:03):
these concepts.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
But yes, we're not going to get into.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
The the whole science of climate change in this one, No, no,
no no, But we do have some things we wanted
to discuss and one of the big, perhaps the biggest
themes of this book is environmental justice, and that is
kind of where Loach aligns a lot of her work,
(06:30):
And we've talked about that a lot before, because, like everything,
the environment is intersectional and there's a lot of things
going on there. But yes, beyond these basic facts of
climate change, of how it works and what's fueling it, consumption,
(06:50):
the history, colonization, racism, sexism, white supremacy, reparations, capitalism, like
these are the topics she's she's delving into in this book,
which are all obviously related, but I feel like sometimes
we sanitize it for kids. But she she's like, no,
(07:11):
this is why, this is why it's happening. This is
all of that. So here are a couple quotes. One is, sorry,
I've never heard of this. Have you ever heard of
the Overton window?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I have not. I mean, this book really helps, like
I know this for kids. But this is also where
we talk about how education is not great in public schools,
and it is like authors and researchers and activists like
her that teach us a lot. I wish we had known.
I had known as a kid. I'm like, oh my god,
know what it is?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I did not know.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Nope, me either, me either. All right, So quote, the
Overton window is a tool for identifying ideas a majority
of people find sensible, popular, or acceptable. Think of it
like a vibe check, but for the whole country or
the whole world. Governments, politicians, and activists all use it
to measure the possibility for chain at a moment and
time on an issue, would people find it unthinkable, radical,
(08:04):
maybe popular? For any given issue, the closer the Overton
window gets to the middle, the more likely a government
will have the opportunity to change laws or change policy
about it. I wanted to include this because I've actually
I've thought about this stuff a lot, and I didn't
know it was a thing, Like I know it was
a thing, but I didn't know there was a term,
but like that idea of we just need to get
(08:26):
enough people to be on board with this, and then
we could finally change But keeping that in mind of
always questioning are enough people on board with this, right, well,
they go along? So I when I read that, I
was I felt kind of a huh, yes that. And then,
(08:52):
as there should be in any discussion about climate change.
There is a lot of discussion about capitalism in this book,
and we have a couple quotes throughout the episode about it.
But here's one Capitalism is like a giant python wrapped
around us and the world, squeezing out everything it possibly can.
(09:14):
It is that strong and that powerful. And now that
I've explained a little bit about what it is, let's
end this chapter with a thought about what it means
for our future. Simply put, capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with
the continuation of human life on Earth. That's a strong statement.
There's no way around it. For capitalism to ultimately succeed,
(09:35):
the majority of life on Earth would have to die.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, Like I said, she doesn't shy away from the truth,
but she's also has a hopeful like we can change it, right, it.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Doesn't have to be this way.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
One of the things I thought about this book in
conversation in general, is that we don't hear often what
capitalism can do, especially when you're growing up again. I've
been out of high school in midle school for a while,
but when we learned about capitalism, it just seemed like
a natural progress of like understanding that this is how
you succeed m m, but how it really is not
(10:14):
as great as you think it is, Like you don't
learn that to your adulthood. So she's really putting it
out there as a way, like a let's teach the
young what this actually looks like, especially today.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, and I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I think that being exposed to that idea when you're younger,
and I as much as our education system is under
siege right now of trying to get rid of any
materials that don't paint like the white supremacists past, I
do think that the younger, younger folks today are they're
having more questions than I was at that age.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I think, yeah, yeah, I mean that social media is connecting.
And I will say when I was reading this book,
I was just thinking that one of is such timing
with what we're seeing in the youth doing today, with
the protests and like, because to me, this book, yes,
is about all the changes and learning these things, but
it also was a call on how to do activism correctly.
(11:14):
And I was like, oh, and I think I've seen
a lot of youth really doing it right, like they
are really getting it right, and very proud to see
the younger generations, maybe with all of the other things
that we're so disheartened by seeing kids who understand what
is to have morality and stand up for others. And
I feel like books like these are so important to
kind of align people to understand because she talks about
(11:34):
organizing and I was like, oh, this is so important.
How do we get this book out there? Because part
of that is that conversation too.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yes, yes, absolutely, And she does have, like as with
a lot of books like this, she has a lot
of good resources and she has a lot of good
tips on how to organize and ways to if you're
feeling guilt, how you can alleviate that, even small way
or way all the different ways that can look which well, yeah,
(12:03):
we'll discuss more.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
In a second.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Another thing she really hammers home also can't talk about
climate changer without talking about this, is that, yes, it
hurts some people more than others, and specifically marginalized communities.
That hurts marginalized communities more than others. And I thought
it was interesting because she does this kind of reflecting
(12:35):
of when she was a kid and how she felt.
And one of the things she kept bringing up was unfairness,
that it was unfair, but also big emotions, which we
are going to come back to as well on the second.
But you know, when you're a kid, those kind of
(12:56):
it does feel unfair and it maybe it does feel
too big and your emotions are too big. But here's
a quote. It's because some people want more money for
themselves and do not care if the rest of us
live or die. That might be a difficult thing to hear.
Maybe it feels to you like one of those situations
that just doesn't make sense, and you're right, it doesn't.
(13:19):
But the people in charge of fossil fuel companies have
proven over and over again that they don't care about
anyone but themselves, no matter what their fancy advertisements might say. So,
once again, getting to telling the youth at an early age,
these companies don't care about you. They do not care
about you at all. They don't care about anybody except themselves.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
That is it.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And this also really resonated with me. Here's a quote.
While we spend hours squeezing our homemade oat milk, these
polluting giants pump millions of barrels of oil from the ground.
While we obsess over our individual impacts and sit in guilt.
The companies and governments that wachas and de carbon heavy
lifestyles are getting away with it. Sure, some guilt can
(14:06):
be helpful, especially for those of us in highly polluting countries,
but I don't think it's the best motivator. I just
because she has this whole thing where she's trying so
hard to minimize her impact, she's making her own oatmel,
she's going out of her way. And then yeah, but
(14:28):
at the end of the day, Yeah, she.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Does an amazing job in this conversation, because I think
we've all felt this when we start learning about an
issue and we take a deep dive and we get
overwhelmed by the horrors that we see. And also she's
undoing years of the gas lighting that these companies did
to our generation, specifically telling us if we recycle, and
she talks about this and if we use paper straws,
(14:53):
if we did these, then yes, you could help the environment.
It's not us. When again she's like, seventy percent of
all this waste and pollution is done by corporations, not us,
And sure, like we all want to be better, but
like trying to put that responsiblity back on us and
not on them while they still make money and cost havoc.
It's like a whole new level. So a lot of
these times when I was thinking, like, if these kids
(15:15):
are reading this book, they're going to come back and
tell their mom and they're recycling, Like that doesn't matter,
Like coming back with the understanding that this is actually
a falsehood, don't stop, and we should still want to
do better. Nonetheless, but then the conversation comes back to
revealing the truth that took us a long time. Like
literally we would just yell at each other about how
(15:38):
we were being wasteful. You're you know, you're letting out
all the air, You're causing us to do all these
things that are bad for the environment. But in actuality,
it's not us. Like it's still not great, and we
still need to do better, but it's not the big picture.
We're talking in small pictures. We're talking about the gaslighting
that has happened for years. I still think about Man
thirty Rocks really been on my mind. Apparently already Rock
(16:00):
did an episode of like are you just gonna put
a green peacock on the corner of the screen, say
you're doing your part to keep everything, you know, clean
up the environment, and that's what you're doing. NBC Okay,
like they make fun of themselves, but it's actually very
true that it was their doing, and this was their
kind of solution, which they talk about greenwashing, which we've
talked about pink washing and all of that, and I
think we've talked about greenwashing as well. But like it is,
(16:23):
it's true, like she really goes after it, like a
is so overwhelming the things that you think you need
to be doing, But the actual big conversation is going
after the big wigs. And I thought about that with
like the child labor laws and all of the labor
laws that happened around the world and talking about it's
not really us just it. Don't get me wrong, Yes,
(16:43):
boycotting is very, very very good, and we need to
but it's the bigger picture of like going after the
companies and come and holding them responsible, penalizing them, arresting them,
doing the things that need to be done. But yeah,
I really enjoyed the fact that she was able to
call that out but also talk about her own experien
is of like filling the overwhelming responsibility on harge hid
(17:05):
and do everything she can and then having in the
light bulb moment of like, oh, oh here's the truth
of the matter.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think I've talked about this before.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
But I was really big into like that was one
of the clubs I joined at my university was about
the environments.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
It was kind of a big thing for me.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
But when I would get really depressed, I would think,
like it was the most sad thoughts, but it was like,
how many resources I'm taking up? If I just wasn't here,
how much better.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Would the world be?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
And I believed it, but it would be so minuscule
compared to.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
What these companies are doing.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, that's how kind of successful they were with their
gaslighting and their greenwashing and their well, if you just
basically stop existing in our modern world.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
That's maybe maybe.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Another thing.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So, like I said, she has these stories from people
who have been highly affected by climate change. One of
the ones that really stuck out to me was about
her childhood beach in Jamaica, and it was like her
favorite beach and she had these really nostalgic memories of it,
and during the pandemic, she went to visit it and
(18:41):
hadn't been there in a while, and it was just
a race, like it was gone because of the water
coming in and because of climate change. And she compares
that to another story of somebody else she interviewed and
or talked to you or was a friend with and
(19:01):
they had a similar thing. And there was a quote
in there that really stuck out to me, is learning
to live with the pain of like it just yeah,
the beach is gone and now it's rocks, and so
when we go to it, it hurts.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
But that's we have to learn to live with the pain.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And there's a lot of discussion about health as well
and how it impacts health, especially of kids, and also
everything like everything your daily life, your the food growth
around you and thus your health, livelihoods, leisure, just.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
That learning to live with the pain.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's like everything every day you can't escape it, and
it's also really interconnected. I think this was a good
I read a really good essay about this when I
was in college that just I still think about. But
you know, for some of us, at least for me,
when I I used to go to the grocery store,
(20:01):
I didn't think twice about where anything came from. And
the story was about the essay was about like all
of the violence behind the like orange I was picking
up and I just never knew. I didn't even think
to ask about where the orange came from, and so
a lot of this she breaks she really breaks down
(20:24):
of like where did this fabric come from? Who did
the work? How did it get shipped here? Like what
ask yourself these questions, and just a real breakdown of
like the amount of waste we generate, just things that
never get sold, yeah, and choices that we make.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah. It was alarming, like the Mountain, Like will you
hear the statistics and you just it just makes.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You angry, Yeah, because.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You have no control of it, Like you see how
the discussing it is. And for the adults, we've known
these statistics a little more or at least a chunk
of it, like for those who have been in this industry,
but hearing it every time stills feel still disheartening because
we know that truth has been out there, that it
came out as like a shock factor, like oh and
(21:17):
I think like maybe probably ten percent of change, Like
some grocery stores finally figured it out and they're like, oh,
oh yeah, we will donate to local shelters. Then we
got you after being called out for all the bad practices,
arresting people forgetting trash like what they consider trash rather
that is just so disheartening to hear and then like
(21:38):
how it could be easily solved, and the fact that
there's a solution and it's still not been completed. That's
when you just want to start throwing things.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
No, it's very frustrating. And she really does go through
like the It was kind of funny because I forgot
about that. Uh, just the journal with the voice activated password.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
She talks about I had one of those two.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Oh did you I think this was after my.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Oh so cool, But she says in there, like, you know,
two weeks later, I didn't use it ever.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Again she was talking about. I was like, I had
no idea. What what did she say? It was okay,
so wow, okay, yeah, I was still in the kyles
for the lock and key thing.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yet, but she she was basically saying that as a
way to frame like how long are you gonna want
this thing?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yeah, I mean the amount of waste that's privileged people
have is insane, insane and like actually, but there are
those moments no no excuse that I'm like, damn.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
It, I threw it out like that one time.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I finally can use anything like damn it.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, I tossed it yeah, I told the.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
One that pumps in my head every time like that
one time I needed it and not throw it out.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, but I mean if you have it, then if
you can use it in a different way or she's
a big proponent of that too.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
But it did make me laugh. But that's where my
head went first, thing, yes, or seeing how much of
value could be You're like.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Oh, make me money, and you're like, you came, that's right,
that's greed. Sorry, moving on, it's all right, No, but yeah,
I did think about that, especially when you talking about
fast clothing and we've talked about that as well, and
of course, like she also is really great about talking
about what you can afford affordability versus what you are
(23:52):
privileged to be able to abstain from, yep, and how
to do how to work that out of course, like
things like Goodwill and all that exists obviously to help
us in the US internationally. No, that's a whole different story.
But like when you have consignment stores that aren't making
try to make profit, but it is better for the environment,
(24:12):
and you can look at that finding different ways. But
it is also about like some people can only afford
the prices of things at Walmart, like to have the
sustainability or they have coupons in these areas and they
have to use it here. Like the accessibility is a
big part of the conversation, and she does a really
great job and making sure she addresses that as well,
(24:33):
because I've thought about that with like clothing and such,
because you don't get some availabilities. You can't find it
at department stores because they are outsized or like not
accessible for people with disabilities, as that they can't even
get in like stuff like that in this level of
like okay, or they're not able to shop long periods
of time, stuff like that In this conversation is also
an understanding that the accessibility is important, whether it's from
(24:56):
being able to afford it to physically being able to
get to their in this level of conversation.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Here is another quote putting the blame on humans are
all of us is far too vague. It feeds into
the same cycles of guilt and shame that can be
super unhelpful. When one hundred companies are responsible for seventy
one percent of climate crisis causing emissions since nineteen eighty eight,
and the richest one percent of the world's population produce
more than double the carbon emissions of the poorest half
(25:29):
of the world. We did not cause the climate crisis.
To say any of these catch off words to allocate
responsibility is to let the small percentage of people who
are actually responsible off the hook. We can't afford to
do that, And then continues when we talk about responsibility,
when we talk about consumption, it's not as simple as
(25:49):
it might seem at first. Those who can afford to
or are able to make more climate friendly changes should
make those changes. We will all have to live our
lives differently in order to meet climate targets, and we
should all be open to change. But a lot of
these changes, like insulating homes, aren't accessible to most people now,
so we need to persuade governments to make them accessible
(26:12):
rather than guilting or putting the responsibility on the people
who don't have a choice in the matter. So going
back to your point, Smith, Yes, yes, one thing we're
not going to go too deep into in this conversation,
but I did want to mention is that she discusses
the money that went into from these companies that went
(26:35):
into climate denial of basically saying climate change is not real?
What are you talking about? Which was a big thing
when I was in college.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I remember this.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, I mean they might be in our offices now
like governmental forces now they want to misuse the term
global warming and you want to just smack them. Maybe
we should give them this book they can under comprehend.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
They would never read it. We would have to trick them.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It wouldn't get arrested.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
To you, yes, yes, But I didn't want to put
that in there because I'm interested to see how younger
folks if that's still as big as it was when.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
I was young, right, what they see?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Mm hmmm mm hm, Any listeners, let us know. But
I remember having this debate in college. I was in
a debate class. So our final theme is hope, because,
(27:50):
as we've said, this is a really hopeful book. It's
really palpable how hopeful she is and how important she thinks.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
That hope is. When it comes to this.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
She tackles these ideas of it's too late, we can't
do anything, it's too late, and giving up and she says, nope,
absolutely not. And here's a quote tackling the roots, toppling
and composting the tree of injustice and oppression. That is
(28:21):
climate justice work. It's not simple or easy, but it
is worth doing. It is also possible. So she has
this metaphor for this tree that's rotting and people, you know,
might try taking off some of the leaves, or they
might try taking off some of the branches, but the
roots are the problem and it's killing the whole like
(28:44):
every other tree, everything else that tries to grow. So
we've got to go to the roots of the problem.
And yes, as I said, not letting fear control you.
She really throughout the book makes the point about reminding
you of that.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Here's a quote.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
My dad made it clear that I didn't have to
and couldn't fix everything, but he also said that didn't
mean I couldn't do anything at all. And that moment
I understood that you don't have to be a perfect
hero to take action. Whatever we can do matters. If
we can save one person, make one life a bit
better or a bit safer, it matters. How could that
(29:26):
not matter? Yeah, it was a really cute story she did,
like a bake sale.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
We kind of mentioned it actually in the act part
where she kind of started her origins. But I think
she does a great job. Throughout the book. You talked
about her metaphors and illustrations, and here and then she
does a great job in several ways and breaking down
different ways, talking about catalysts and talking about colonialization. She
(29:54):
gives it a bit good way of like understanding what
this is for any parents or aunties or any of
the people who have children in their lives. I think
this is a great book. I think making sure you
have a discussion at the beginning at the end of
this so that they don't get overwhelmed in all of
this information, because it can be overwhelming to see, especially
(30:15):
like an empathetic child like that. Yeah, that's the hardest
in trying to let them understand how big this is.
But I really think she does a great job and
breaking down things that we should have learned as a
kid to begin with. But of course corporations would not
want you to this, absolutely, it would be one of
those things that people would say was woke, which is
(30:37):
not a bad thing again, but it's just that level
of like this is a great way in cultivating someone
who you know could be a great activist.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I think yes, absolutely, And going back to what you
said and what I mentioned, earlier is that this book
is pretty heavy in ways, and she does talk about
having big feelings, and so I wanted to read two
quotes about it because I just think they're so important.
(31:11):
Maybe these situations have made you feel really sad. I
know I still cry regularly when I hear news about
our climate crisis, read stories about injustice, or learn about
a tragedy on social media. My heart breaks often when
asking questions about things that don't make sense in our world.
Has anyone ever told you, look, it's just the way
the world is, or that's something you'll understand when you're older.
(31:34):
I was a kid who asked lots of questions and
adults would answer me like this. I asked but why
a lot? And I was rarely satisfied with the response.
I couldn't help wondering why is this just the way
the world is? Honestly why? But lots of adults wouldn't
want to get into it, and something seemed different about them.
(31:56):
They cried less than I did, and sure sometimes for
understanding reasons, but they also felt less and that was
celebrated like it was a good thing, like it was
better to not feel things deeply, to not cry or
be moved by injustice, but instead to look through or
past it. This made no sense to me. It still doesn't.
If someone is so tough that they never cry about anything,
(32:20):
this is seen as strength. If someone can witness or
experience something sad, scary, or tragic and seem untroubled by it,
this is somehow rewarded as bravery. I see it differently.
I think it's braver to feel heartbreak, even if it hurts.
I love that so much because you know, not only
(32:42):
could we talk about that in terms of toxic masculinity,
but I completely agree. I think it's much harder to
have your heart broken over and over again. And I
think people in any kind of activism work or work
where you care about other people, it requires that, and
(33:05):
that's a strength, that's a It's difficult, and so I'm
really glad that she made sure to put this in there,
and too, you know, for the readers who are probably younger,
a lot of them say, it doesn't make sense to
(33:27):
me either, This makes no sense.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
You should care. Why would you not care?
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean, she definitely puts it in a great way
of saying, make sure you know what you feel like,
feel those big feelings but don't get overwhelmed by those feelings,
which is a hard place to be, Like, trying to
figure that out can be a tricky, tricky part.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Oh yeah, and I mean, I'm sure the listeners of
this show, no, we know, but it's hard when you're
trying to make change when everything's so bad, or even
just talk about what's going on and everything is so bad,
and sometimes that does mean, you know what, I'm going
(34:07):
to take a day, just gonna pause for a minute,
but not to not like bury.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Those feelings and never confront them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
She talks about how doing things like pick it out
in poetry, write it out, feel that those feelings, get
those moments, but also understand you are not wholly responsible
for this situation.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yes, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
And then to end, she perhaps obviously is a big
proponent of working together of community, of how we can
make change through that, and how your activism can inspire
others to do the same, and then the movement gets
(34:55):
bigger because their activism will expire inspire other people to
do the same. Of having these connections and imagination. I
love that she has a whole section about, you know,
imagining a better world without limitations, like don't that kind
of child imagination. Don't put those limitations on yourself, and
(35:18):
move beyond like systems like capitalism. And she even includes
examples of how that's looked of certain societies where that
has happened. So it's not like it can't happen, so
just to take those limitations off. And she ends on
(35:38):
this really hopeful message of the power of young people.
And here's a final quote. Hope is active. Hope is alive,
but only if we organize to keep it that way.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, it's a fantastic read. It's really good.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Yes, really, if you're in the car to get Yeah,
it's available on all the platforms, so if you have
any access to that, you should definitely do that. But
also you should buy the book at independent bookstore if
you can to get the illustrations.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, the illustrations are cute. Yes, so go check it out,
really really really recommend Yes. Would love to hear from listeners.
If you have read it, or if you have any
suggestions about.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
What we should do next.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
You can email us at Hello at Stuffnever Told You
dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
mol Stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff
I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have
some merchandise that Common Hero, and we have a book
you can get where you get your books. Thanks. It's
always to our super producer Re Senior Executive produced, my
indercontributor Joey.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Thank you and thanks to you for.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Listening Stuff Never Told You Prediction by Heart Radio. For
more podcast from my heart Radio, you can check out
the Heart Radio Act, Apple podcast or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows there whom you f
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