May 30, 2025 • 34 mins
Erin Entrada Kelly's 2017 novel Hello, Universe is a fantastical young adult coming-of-age story that largely takes place over one fateful summer days. Through fate and determination, friendships are forged. We dig into themes of folklore, fate, friendship, and disability.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
I never told you a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome
to another edition of book Club. Today we are doing
the twenty seventeen novel Hello Universe by Aaron and Trota Kelly, which,
(00:29):
by the way, when you suggested this, I had a
moment of like, I don't want to do that one
because I wrote something called okay, Universe, this is too close.
The title is too good.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We's gonna take that title. You better? Oh you just yeah,
you just gave that out for free. Annie, what are
you doing? The funny we have spies.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
We do have spies, and they work at HBO Max,
which it is now HBO Max Aga because of Shenanigans.
The funny thing is I have already recorded for our
spenty fiction the first chapter of that, but we haven't
gotten through Terminus.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So I'm gonna say, wait, have we finished Terminus? No
jumped into a new one.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh, guys, I was just being productive. Some days had
days where I'm like, let's just go ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh I don't have those days. I must that. That's
a conversation in itself.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Anyway, Okay, anyway, we're not talking about my book. Today
today we are talking about Allow Universe. It's a unique
young adult coming of age story following the viewpoints of
four middle school students, and it has received a lot
of acclaim including the Newberry Award. It's fantastical, it's poignant,
(01:48):
it's really touching. It's a tale of finding friends and
yourself and unexpected places and trot to. Kelly is Filipino
and has mentioned in interviews that she wanted a story
that had more focus on Filipino culture and folklore. And
Samantha and I were talking about it before, and it
does have that kind of whimsical childhood adventure with less
(02:10):
of the hard rs.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
That was in our generation. Thank you to the newer
generation of writers. I was like, you know what, let's
not crush their spirits. Let's give them a kind of
a happy ending.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, but it's kind of like a mystery.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Looking at you bridge it there Bitia.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Also, we almost didn't choose this one because I was
worried about the link. But it goes by really quickly.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, it does. It goes back very quickly. And it's
also available because you know, I love an audio book.
It helps me like do my multitasking that I need
to do. Uh, but yeah, it's very short. It is
a chapter book for the younger, younger generations, and like
elementary middle school. I love it though. It's so great.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah it is. It's really great, all right. So before
we break down the plot, let's establish our four main characters,
whose povs we're gonna shift between. Virgil, a shy young
Filipino American boy nicknamed Turtle because he won't come out
of his show. He really doesn't like this nickname. No,
(03:17):
it's understandable, Yeah, completely understandable. We've got Valencia, a wilful
but lonely deaf girl who loves nature. Kayo a Japanese
American girl who can read fortunes. She kind of does
this alongside her sister Jin. And then we've got Chet
(03:39):
the Bull. I think his last name is Bullins, right,
Chet the Bull Bulleins the bully who learned a lot
of his bad behavior from his dad, So he'll see
his dad talk trash about somebody and be like, ah, yeah,
that makes sense. Okay. So the bulk of this story
takes place over one summer day, and we learn about
(04:01):
our main characters through introspective chapters before the action really
gets going. So yes, we have Virgil, who is a
shy kid who is small. He's picked last for Jim.
He doesn't fit in with most of his pretty outgoing,
sportsy family. He's close with his grandmother, though, his Lola,
who shares Filipino lore with him. He wants to connect
(04:23):
with classmate Valencia, who he sees as outgoing and brave,
the opposite of him. To figure out how to do it,
he makes an appointment with local psychic Kyori I love
this and sets off to meet her with his beloved
guinea pig Gullivar. However, Gullivar is that that's so funny.
(04:45):
It's obviously Gulliver's Gulliver.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, Gulliver, Yes, because that's a plot poort later on. Anyway,
ignore my mispronunciation. However, on the way, as he is
collect what he needs for his reading for five Stones,
he runs into school bully Chet, who is intent on
capturing a snake. Chet harasses him and then takes his
(05:12):
backpack and drops it in the well, and Gulliver is
in there, so the poor Culliver down he goes. Virgil
can't leave Culiver behind, so he climbs down the wells ladder,
only to find the bottom rungs are missing. He does
discover Gulliver is fine, but now they're both trapped in
(05:32):
the well and he kind of has this whole He
has to kind of come to terms with a lot
of things about himself. But one of the things is
he has to get himself to raise his voice and
start shouting for help, which is something that is very
difficult for him and something I actually relate to. I
(05:52):
was used to be really bad about that in auditions.
If it was like she screams, I'd be like, oh,
I can't do that. Oh, I was like, I mean
probably why didn't get any of those roles. Meanwhile, Valencia
is also on her way to meet Kayori for a
(06:15):
fortune after seeing her business card at the grocery store, which,
by the way, great business woman.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Or is a smart business woman with a very handy
sidekicked sister.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yes, Indeed, Valencia can't shake off these feelings of loneliness
that she has that like something is missing. She's having
these nightmares where she's basically like there's a solar eclipse
and everyone disappears and it's just her or she ends
up alone or is invisible something like that. And in
(06:48):
her years, she's even prayed to Saint Rene, who is
a French missionary. So she's tried a lot of things
to deal with this, and now she's like, if I
have one more nightmare, I'm going to go see the psychic,
and she does, so she goes. She's also had experiences
with previous friends who left her because of her disability,
(07:09):
and she worries her family feels the same way, so
here she goes. She's on her way to Kyrie's. She
passes by the well but can't hear Virgil's calls for
help and closes it, knocking the stones that he collected
along the side inside and ceiling him in the dark.
And meanwhile Chet's watching her and being like a total
(07:31):
jerk because he doesn't believe she actually can't hear, so
he's like testing it.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Also that she's a witch.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yes, he also thinks she's a witch because she's very
into nature and so she's like helping a squirrel like
she's you know, she goes into the woods a lot. Yeah, Anyway,
she continues to Kyrie's, who Kyrie's kind of distracted because
Virgil never showed up and so she can't quite concentrate,
(08:02):
but she does interpret Valentia's dreams as kind of like, yeah,
anyone would be scared of being invisible or being alone,
that makes sense. But then she does when Valentia is
like less than impressed, she does mention of, well, Virgil's missing,
that is so unlike him. I'm very worried. And so
(08:23):
Valencia agrees to help Kayori and her younger sister Jen,
who always carries her jump rope with her look for Virgil,
and she almost does, like something is drawing her to
do so, like maybe this is fate, but she can't
quite place who Virgil is to kind of describe him,
and she's like, I don't know, I don't know. They
(08:44):
decide to first check with Virgil's family, though they say
Vow will have to do it since the family is
suspicious of the psychic sisters, so she goes. Meanwhile, at
the bottom of the well, Virgil is having visions at
a Filipino legendary bird of prey that his Lola told
him about named Pa, and an imaginary conversation with Ruby,
(09:07):
who is a friend from Lola's village that Lola has described,
and Ruby is basically telling him like she's trying to
pump him up, like come on, we can do this. Meanwhile, meanwhile,
Chet is bitten by a snake after grabbing it completely
the wrong way, and I have to say, even I
knew that'sgrash.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
He didn't research well.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
He didn't research well, and we will talk about that
in a second. So Val and the others meet with Lola,
who claims that she and Val have the site or
something like that, similar to Kyori. This is also when
Val realizes she does, in fact no Virgil. But they
learned that Virgil is not home, but he had gone
into the woods. So then they try to follow the
(09:54):
path he would have taken to Kyori's because again he's
like somebody who keeps his appointments, so this is probably
where he was going. Let's go this way. Along the way,
they run into Chet, who's suffering from the steake bite.
Valencia examines the bite and gives advice on how to
treat him, calling him out for calling her defo, and
(10:14):
gives everyone her name. So at that point she'd been
kind of cagey about it, but at this point she's like, no,
this is what you call me. That's how it is correct, yes,
and that is where Kyori says that they should go
into business together her Val. With Kyori's knowledge of the
(10:34):
spiritual side and Vow knowing the natural side, they could
really have a good business. I love that they could.
They could.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
It's a good business again.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Kyri's got a good business sense.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
She knows what's going on.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
They continue to search the woods until they find the
well and the knoctover stones. They pushed the cover off
and use the jump rope gins jump rope that she'd
been caring to, say Virgil. And it's then that Val
reveals that she had a guinea pig named Lily Put.
Lily put Gulliver if you don't remember, that's Lily puts
(11:14):
the village in Gulliver's travel. So it's like another instance
of fate that they were meant to meet. Kori surmises
that fate brought all of them together. Virgil has gained
self confidence, Val has friends, she's her nightmare is kind
of assuaged. Kiori has a potential business partner, and Jet
(11:37):
hopefully we'll think about some of his actions.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
He's kind of left as a I don't think there's
a redemption r for that one with the father, he's
pretty bleak.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, that's like my best hope is that he'll recover
from the snake bite and actually think about it and
be like, oh.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I mean he was envisioning during that point of dying
or like being really aimed and being able to be
like heroically Hill, but I did face it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah. Yeah. So he doesn't join the friend group, but
they all they become friends and I'll talk about this
more in a second, but like true friends, and it's
very sweet and that's kind of where it ends. Mm hmm,
(12:39):
all right, Well that does bring us to our themes.
So one of the big ones is just kind of
this almost ethereal like seeing signs are going to psychics,
our astronomy or fate or nightmares and reading nightmares and
what does that mean? Which was really fun. I liked
(12:59):
that lot and trying to figure out just as a reader,
like oh what does this mean? Okay? Right, that was
really fine. And you know, at first, you don't know
much about Carrier's business. You kind of see the business
card and you're really interested because she's young. I think
she's twelve years old, she's around there, and so you're
like ooh, I want to know more about her. Yeah,
(13:22):
but she.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Was not wrong because she definitely interpreted that dream about
being afraid of being alone and the whole time, like
Valencia is like, no, you're wrong, No, I don't care
about being alone. I like being alone all these things.
But in nactuality, she's just been seeking a friend. And
we talked about the fact, like you know, she talked
about like having friends with upon a time and now
this is new, but like and then you know, Calorie
(13:43):
was like, okay, okay, I believe maybe you're not. Maybe
maybe I'm just off, But in actuality she was on
as well as the fact that she knew that Virgil
wasn't there and something was wrong, went into the woods
like she was on it. Oh. Yeah, Kyrie had a gift.
And I also loved her perspective of a like she
seemed like such an old soul about not bringing in
phones in her area, about not having all these things
(14:05):
in her area, like keeping that sacred. I was like, okay,
she's serious, serious.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, she had a bunch of rules, which I liked.
I was like, she seems to know she's got that's
something going on. Yeah, she If you want to come
get a vision from me. Here's what you gotta do.
You can't just show up beautiful. I love it. So
we have that. We have, as we mentioned Valencia having
(14:34):
this really strong connection with nature. You have Virgil going
through this whole thing in the well in the dark,
talking with Ruby, who represents hope, and then talking well,
seeing Paw and that being fear and kind of having
this back and forth and coming out Change came out
(14:56):
of the well, changed.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Speak to her.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, didn't tell his family, don't call me turtle.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
It took him a minute, it took him all the
going home. And you didn't mention the dog Sacred, Yes,
who is why Valencia goes through the woods in the
first place, not only to get to Calorie, but she
feeds this dog that's in the woods home like I guess,
roaming dog that she names Sacred, and she feeds him
in the woods and he follows her about and during
(15:26):
this time, the Sacred is a part of all of this,
and it kind of seems to insinuate there's something happening,
like there's like he may be like also a representation
here of part of that, and that could have been
a part of the strength because Virgil ends up going home,
and Sacred ended up following him, and when he's home,
he's like trying to get the nerve and like Lola,
(15:49):
who is a kindred spirit if there ever were one,
talking about you know, we're gonna keep the dog. We
can do these things for the dogs, because like he
brought home a dog and there's something meaning to this.
And during this time that she he's like, finally, like,
I don't want to be called turtle. I wanted to
be called Virgil or his full name or uh, you
(16:09):
know what I'm talking about, and uh, she finally and
the mother actually sees him for the first time. I
feel like that's a big sign of it. But it
took him still another minute to really get to that point,
because he had already whispered at once when he left
the house, right, I don't like you call me a turtle.
But when he got home he does slowly come back
to it, but he doesn't quite get there because he
(16:30):
doesn't talk the entire time. It when in front of
Valencia and they just kind of he just stares yea,
even though in his mind he'd made up all these
things and if I survived, these are the things I would.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Like to do. Mmmmm yeah. We'll talk about that towards
the end, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I didn't
really say it because I honestly wasn't quite sure, and
that's probably a side for how badly I am reading
these things. But he had like a crush on Valencia.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah, well he felt that she was strong, which is
exactly what also check the Bully saw too, like, because
she's strong and just her looks alone of like ugh
made him scared of her.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so she was a I think it
was a He had a lot of emotions about her,
but one of them was strong in like respect and
she's different than how I am and I want to
talk to her, so we also, I have a couple
quotes here Ruby's side. That's the problem. People don't want
to listen to their thoughts, so they fill the world
(17:32):
with noise. I just love that because I.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Feel like, yep, Ruby is an old soul. She kind
of does remind me of Cowie in that level of
like back and forth. Yeah, she's also an extension of Lola.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Mm hmmm yeah yeah, yeah, So here's another quote. Weakness
has nothing to do with how much you weigh Ruby hesitated. Sure,
maybe they can play sports and lift things, but that
doesn't mean that they're strong. There are men different ways
to be strong, and being a warrior has nothing to
do with size. Surely there have been small warriors before Yoda. Obviously.
(18:12):
Come on, I'll think.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
About the folklore that Lola Tel's with the guy, but.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Judge me by my size, do you? Come on? Here's
a quote from Kiori about their business, this business proposition.
I know about the spiritual world and you know about
the natural world. It's the perfect partnership. That's probably why
fate brought us together as friends. I just love this
idea so much. I'm so into it.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Oh they're so perfect.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, but there's a lot of elements like this. There's
a lot of things around. Like there's one idea of
getting letters from loved ones, like kind of after they've
passed on or whatever, and getting these letters. And I
feel like the ending for me felt like that, even
(19:05):
though I know that's not quite what was happening, but
real great, Yeah, because she gets a text message. Valencia
gets a text message at the end from Lola's number
that says hello, and she knows it's.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Not Lola and that was this whole thing was like,
I'll just need to say hello, that's it. That's all
I need to say, and everything else will happen.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah. So Virgil finally did it. And by the way,
it was like two thirty in the morning, right, which
has a different vibe when you're in middle school versus older.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
It's still unlike anything past ten thirty. I was like, oh, well,
my phone. Not to be fair like I've done it,
but I'm like, in my mind, you're not listening because
your phone is turned off and you're asleep, so you'll
just say the first thing in the morning. But she
was kind of always already alert because for the first time.
We'll talk about this probably later, but like getting all
(19:59):
these when she never got them from her mom, and
that made her so excited.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, yeah, it was very sweet. She got a lot
more textbustors than me. I have to say also, well,
because since she says she had like fifty.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, it was pretty high up there. No, that's gonna
make me panic. I'm gonna t my phone all.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
That's gonna make me think. I've like been called out
on social.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Media somewhere right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
As mentioned, fate is very big in this story, kind
of this idea like Jen had the jump rope was
what they needed to say Virgil, and all all these
things came together to bring them together and to make
sure that they did say Virgil. And that was something
I really liked it and definitely as a kid, I
(20:51):
would have ate that up. As you mentioned, also, animals
are pretty big in this book is a little animals.
We have Gulliver, the guinea pig, and then Lily put Sacred,
the dog who does seem to kind of have some
sense or something.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, we have the squirrel watching with Valencia as well
as Jane Goodall having a good mention here.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yes, I forgot about that.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Because that's why she went to observe the squirrels, because
she wanted to be Jane Goodall observed chimpanzee, so this
was her way of doing that. She's like, in one day,
I'll be known for observing these squirrels.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Squirrels are cool. They have secret stashes of acorns.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
That was not what I was reading for you to say,
I'm not gonna lie. I was unexpected. That was amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
They have secret stashes for me, they.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Do, And that's how she said she's gonna survive, and
you know what, respect that made me think maybe I
should do the same thing. So I'm not go.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
We gotta keep all of our avenue rooms open, you know, yes,
but also snakes. And I think, going back to your point,
the way at Chet, who is determined to catch the snake,
really looks down on Valencia and it's like she's a
witch when he clearly didn't do any research. He didn't
(22:16):
know what he was doing. I'll say it again. Even me,
I was like, no, that is not how you pick
up a snake. So there's sort of an element there
of like learning from your elders or at least doing
the research if you're going to embark on that having
the respect. It's kind of a Jurassic Park element. And
(22:38):
there as well, which is you know, as we talked about,
you don't really get the resolution with chet story like
you do with everyone else, but you do see him
learning this behavior from his dad. You do see him
(23:00):
picking up on that and wanting to kind of impress
his dad, but also like really shaping how he views
strength versus weakness. Yeah, so that was an elm. And
then who is it that has to help him? Is Valencia?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Right, I'll never admit it.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Oh no, probably not. So another theme friendship or into friendship.
Here's a quote friends. Something about the way she says
(23:39):
it makes me feel like I found something. I know
it sounds corny, but in that moment with that one word,
I already feel like a different person. Is that possible?
And so this is Valencia's feelings of when she has
she realizes like, oh I have friends. Oh I'm getting
the text messages like oh I have this group that
(24:00):
Actually I told them, can you look at me when
you're speaking so I can understand you? And they do,
But instead of making her feel bad about it.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Right, not even questioning or giving her looks or like
any of those things, and understanding that again, like Valencia
has a gift when it comes to studying and understanding
nature and loving things and paying attention to like their surroundings,
Like she has a bigger power and I love like
in this also conversation about names, I love that. I
actually I know a lot of Asian people having that
(24:31):
conversation of like changing their Asian names into something English
so that it's not so hard to say, or all
these things and the power of names in general, like
Valencia talks about loving her name and the fact that
she originally was gonna be like a more common Emily
or something I think name, and then her mom looked
at her. She's like, no, you're Valencia, and Lola's like, yes,
(24:52):
you are. Your name is power, and Colorie is the
same thing. She's like, no, my name is unusual, it's
different and it's powerful all these things, and Virgil is
the same thing. Virgil is very powerful and he wants
to be that, not Turtle, like all of these things.
It was very like I love that, and they kind
of all bonded over that, and I thought it was
really genuinely sweet and an amazing lesson to be given
(25:16):
because I have a feeling I was going try a
little bit of a try to a little purpose, but
like in this level of like talking to other Asian
people and them questioning my name and like, oh, actually
I'm adopted. They're like, oh, that makes sense. But then
they're like explaining their names, and I was like, yeah,
I want to say your name, don't change it just
because it's like, what is your name? So I can
say as it's given, unless you prefer not to be.
(25:38):
That's understandable. You have to grow into whatever you want,
or if there's other you know, things, But if you
love your name and it's you know, not common, then
we should all respect that. But like you know that,
there's power in that. It was cute, it was very sweet,
and they bonded over that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, that was a really lovely moment. And then they
found they found these friends, and they found the things
that they were also looking for as well, So that
was really really nice. And then I did appreciate how
disability was dealt with in this book, because Valencia does
(26:14):
have a hearing aid and she has been judged for it.
Like we said, she had this group, these friends who
didn't want to play with her anymore because she couldn't hear,
and it made them uncomfortable. She felt like she was
invisible even with her family in some instances. Here's a quote,
(26:40):
and my mom said that if they were real friends,
they would have figured out a game that all of
us could play. I can't stand when she says stuff
like that. It makes me think she doesn't get it.
Bad friends are better than no friends. And besides, I
thought they were my real friends in the first place.
That was the whole reason I was crying. And that's
so because later you do see her saying like, no,
(27:00):
I like being alone. I don't need these friends, and
so it's so heartwarming that she found the friends who
don't who are like, yes, if that's what you need,
that's what we'll do. That's okay. But I do think
it's also a fair point for her to be like
annoyed with her mom being like, oh, yeah, you'll just
(27:22):
find that. There's why I think it's fair that she
was upset.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Right well, obviously their mom parents, because she also talked
about wanting to learn sign language, and they're very dismissive
of that. Yeah, And I was like, oh, there's a
whole of course, Like I don't think again, it wasn't
a part of the problem. It was a brief mention,
but it says a lot about her parents really trying
to be just like just be normal. And I'm putting
that in quotes and hoping that they don't that she's
(27:52):
not so disenfranchised in this way and kind of dismissive
of her worries. It's kind of like when people have
dealt with like bullies or being picked on or any
of those things. Like when I would talk about the
microaggressions that I experienced instead of validating those true things,
and they'd be like, oh, they're just jealous, Oh they
like you. Like those really dismissive comments has kind of
(28:14):
happened from her parents in that same level, right.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And that makes you feel like you can't be completely
honest and is also kind of patroodizing in a way.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yea to be like, oh, it's okay, they don't they're
drims And you're like, but that's not true. That's not
how this works. They're being mean and I need to
recognize that, Like she's having to be tougher because her
parents are willing to handle it or take it seriously.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yes, exactly, And if you look in the acknowledgments, the
author did a lot of research with schools about people
who have hearing disabilities. So I think that's that's really cool.
And then a final theme because Virgil, while it is
(29:03):
like we said, everything turns out okay, it's an outmeat book,
Virgil does kind of face these thoughts of death and like,
like you said, if I ever get out of here,
if I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this.
Here's a quote of all the questions you ever ask
yourself in life, Never ask what's the point? It's the
worst question in the world. Ruby said, because he kind
(29:27):
of goes through. You know, I'm going to get out
of here. Oh no, it's hopeless. Oh no, I'm going
to die.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Right, What are my parents are going to say when
I disappear? Whatever happened? I want to be a legend
like Lola's story, right.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And having those thoughts of what would you do differently,
and then having the nice ending where he doesn't die
and he is found and then he finds friends, and
then he talks to Valencia, he gets the thing he
was going into the woods to you, right, it is
(30:02):
a really lovely kind of full circle story.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yes, yes, it is very sweet and it's very and
I'm really I was like, I'm afraid that Grandma's gonna
there's so many moments I'm so traumatized by children's books.
Then I'm like, this person's gonna die because I really thought,
Oh no, I thought the ending was going to be
that Valencia was going to discover him and that's that's
how they were going to become friends. No, but she
closed up the wells so well down never mind.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah. I mean if we were vis a horror, that
would have been a good horror, right.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I was like, no, I would be scared of that.
I would be scared of being stuck in the well. Like,
first of all, there's our water down there where you're
gonna drown all these things. I was horrified because I
thought that Gulliver was gonna die. I was like, no,
he loves like waiting for him to run away and
never be found again. I was like, no, yeah, it's
not like that.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
No, Gulliver is like his buddy too, That's what I'm saying.
And there's like little illustrations of him at the chapter.
He's so cute.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
And also that is also the thing about how like,
you know, guinea pigs are not supposed to be alone.
There are social creatures and all these things, and he
was figuring that out and wanted to ask for a second,
you know, guinea pig. I was like, oh no, yeah,
it turned out.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
You definitely were like, we gotta get Gulliver.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Right, we can Goliver out of there. But I did
love all of those things in that conversation because they
really do come together. Because we also talked like the
fact that Virgil does obviously have like a learning disability,
and there's a whole some of the things. There are
some offensive words in there that I was like, oh,
that was really okay. It's not wrong because we know
(31:44):
that there are main jarks in the world that will
taunt you for anything that is different, but like, it's
it's really interesting to see because he also finally stands
up to him. I think he yells at him and
then runs away or something, but like he doesn't ever
really like they don't face, but he just goes back,
(32:05):
like says something fondly to him and walks away, because
usually he's just running away from him, right or that
was also a plus. And would you see chat struggling
because he's trying to impress his dad and he knows
that his dad is disappointed that he doesn't make the
basketball team. So he's trying repeatedly to become a sports
person because his dad is very on him about that
and how his worth is based on how good he
(32:27):
is and like not just being okay, still he's still
a jerk.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, but it was kind of a sad thing to
see because you were like, he just wanted to bet
that that was like his entire thing is he wanted
to get on the basketball team.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, just so his dad could know he did it.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, But anyway, great book. Yes, I love a good
like children's tell.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yeah. Well, and it was really fun too, because I
think longtime listeners of the show know we love a
kind of different povs and then pieces coming together and
it's almost like a puzzle. It's really fun.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
She set it up nicely.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yes it was. It was really fun. And I say
this with like a total compliment, but it did go
by very quickly. I was surprised because I saw the
page count and I was like, oh no, I don't know,
but it's just a really you get so caught up.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
And engaging beast read because you love the storyline.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
So highly recommend. It's a good summary read.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It is a good summary.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I highly recommend. As always listeners, they let us know
if you have any thoughts or suggestions for future book clubs.
You can email us at Hello at stuff Onenever told
You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky
I'm Offso podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
I Never told You for us on YouTube or on
Tea public and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks always too, our super
(34:01):
producer Christina or executive producer and our contributor Joey. Thank
you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never Told
You is production by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio
app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to Favid shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
I never told you a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome
to another edition of book Club. Today we are doing
the twenty seventeen novel Hello Universe by Aaron and Trota Kelly, which,
(00:29):
by the way, when you suggested this, I had a
moment of like, I don't want to do that one
because I wrote something called okay, Universe, this is too close.
The title is too good.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We's gonna take that title. You better? Oh you just yeah,
you just gave that out for free. Annie, what are
you doing? The funny we have spies.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
We do have spies, and they work at HBO Max,
which it is now HBO Max Aga because of Shenanigans.
The funny thing is I have already recorded for our
spenty fiction the first chapter of that, but we haven't
gotten through Terminus.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So I'm gonna say, wait, have we finished Terminus? No
jumped into a new one.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh, guys, I was just being productive. Some days had
days where I'm like, let's just go ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh I don't have those days. I must that. That's
a conversation in itself.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Anyway, Okay, anyway, we're not talking about my book. Today
today we are talking about Allow Universe. It's a unique
young adult coming of age story following the viewpoints of
four middle school students, and it has received a lot
of acclaim including the Newberry Award. It's fantastical, it's poignant,
(01:48):
it's really touching. It's a tale of finding friends and
yourself and unexpected places and trot to. Kelly is Filipino
and has mentioned in interviews that she wanted a story
that had more focus on Filipino culture and folklore. And
Samantha and I were talking about it before, and it
does have that kind of whimsical childhood adventure with less
(02:10):
of the hard rs.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
That was in our generation. Thank you to the newer
generation of writers. I was like, you know what, let's
not crush their spirits. Let's give them a kind of
a happy ending.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, but it's kind of like a mystery.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Looking at you bridge it there Bitia.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Also, we almost didn't choose this one because I was
worried about the link. But it goes by really quickly.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, it does. It goes back very quickly. And it's
also available because you know, I love an audio book.
It helps me like do my multitasking that I need
to do. Uh, but yeah, it's very short. It is
a chapter book for the younger, younger generations, and like
elementary middle school. I love it though. It's so great.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah it is. It's really great, all right. So before
we break down the plot, let's establish our four main characters,
whose povs we're gonna shift between. Virgil, a shy young
Filipino American boy nicknamed Turtle because he won't come out
of his show. He really doesn't like this nickname. No,
(03:17):
it's understandable, Yeah, completely understandable. We've got Valencia, a wilful
but lonely deaf girl who loves nature. Kayo a Japanese
American girl who can read fortunes. She kind of does
this alongside her sister Jin. And then we've got Chet
(03:39):
the Bull. I think his last name is Bullins, right,
Chet the Bull Bulleins the bully who learned a lot
of his bad behavior from his dad, So he'll see
his dad talk trash about somebody and be like, ah, yeah,
that makes sense. Okay. So the bulk of this story
takes place over one summer day, and we learn about
(04:01):
our main characters through introspective chapters before the action really
gets going. So yes, we have Virgil, who is a
shy kid who is small. He's picked last for Jim.
He doesn't fit in with most of his pretty outgoing,
sportsy family. He's close with his grandmother, though, his Lola,
who shares Filipino lore with him. He wants to connect
(04:23):
with classmate Valencia, who he sees as outgoing and brave,
the opposite of him. To figure out how to do it,
he makes an appointment with local psychic Kyori I love
this and sets off to meet her with his beloved
guinea pig Gullivar. However, Gullivar is that that's so funny.
(04:45):
It's obviously Gulliver's Gulliver.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, Gulliver, Yes, because that's a plot poort later on. Anyway,
ignore my mispronunciation. However, on the way, as he is
collect what he needs for his reading for five Stones,
he runs into school bully Chet, who is intent on
capturing a snake. Chet harasses him and then takes his
(05:12):
backpack and drops it in the well, and Gulliver is
in there, so the poor Culliver down he goes. Virgil
can't leave Culiver behind, so he climbs down the wells ladder,
only to find the bottom rungs are missing. He does
discover Gulliver is fine, but now they're both trapped in
(05:32):
the well and he kind of has this whole He
has to kind of come to terms with a lot
of things about himself. But one of the things is
he has to get himself to raise his voice and
start shouting for help, which is something that is very
difficult for him and something I actually relate to. I
(05:52):
was used to be really bad about that in auditions.
If it was like she screams, I'd be like, oh,
I can't do that. Oh, I was like, I mean
probably why didn't get any of those roles. Meanwhile, Valencia
is also on her way to meet Kayori for a
(06:15):
fortune after seeing her business card at the grocery store, which,
by the way, great business woman.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Or is a smart business woman with a very handy
sidekicked sister.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yes, Indeed, Valencia can't shake off these feelings of loneliness
that she has that like something is missing. She's having
these nightmares where she's basically like there's a solar eclipse
and everyone disappears and it's just her or she ends
up alone or is invisible something like that. And in
(06:48):
her years, she's even prayed to Saint Rene, who is
a French missionary. So she's tried a lot of things
to deal with this, and now she's like, if I
have one more nightmare, I'm going to go see the psychic,
and she does, so she goes. She's also had experiences
with previous friends who left her because of her disability,
(07:09):
and she worries her family feels the same way, so
here she goes. She's on her way to Kyrie's. She
passes by the well but can't hear Virgil's calls for
help and closes it, knocking the stones that he collected
along the side inside and ceiling him in the dark.
And meanwhile Chet's watching her and being like a total
(07:31):
jerk because he doesn't believe she actually can't hear, so
he's like testing it.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Also that she's a witch.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yes, he also thinks she's a witch because she's very
into nature and so she's like helping a squirrel like
she's you know, she goes into the woods a lot. Yeah, Anyway,
she continues to Kyrie's, who Kyrie's kind of distracted because
Virgil never showed up and so she can't quite concentrate,
(08:02):
but she does interpret Valentia's dreams as kind of like, yeah,
anyone would be scared of being invisible or being alone,
that makes sense. But then she does when Valentia is
like less than impressed, she does mention of, well, Virgil's missing,
that is so unlike him. I'm very worried. And so
(08:23):
Valencia agrees to help Kayori and her younger sister Jen,
who always carries her jump rope with her look for Virgil,
and she almost does, like something is drawing her to
do so, like maybe this is fate, but she can't
quite place who Virgil is to kind of describe him,
and she's like, I don't know, I don't know. They
(08:44):
decide to first check with Virgil's family, though they say
Vow will have to do it since the family is
suspicious of the psychic sisters, so she goes. Meanwhile, at
the bottom of the well, Virgil is having visions at
a Filipino legendary bird of prey that his Lola told
him about named Pa, and an imaginary conversation with Ruby,
(09:07):
who is a friend from Lola's village that Lola has described,
and Ruby is basically telling him like she's trying to
pump him up, like come on, we can do this. Meanwhile, meanwhile,
Chet is bitten by a snake after grabbing it completely
the wrong way, and I have to say, even I
knew that'sgrash.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
He didn't research well.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
He didn't research well, and we will talk about that
in a second. So Val and the others meet with Lola,
who claims that she and Val have the site or
something like that, similar to Kyori. This is also when
Val realizes she does, in fact no Virgil. But they
learned that Virgil is not home, but he had gone
into the woods. So then they try to follow the
(09:54):
path he would have taken to Kyori's because again he's
like somebody who keeps his appointments, so this is probably
where he was going. Let's go this way. Along the way,
they run into Chet, who's suffering from the steake bite.
Valencia examines the bite and gives advice on how to
treat him, calling him out for calling her defo, and
(10:14):
gives everyone her name. So at that point she'd been
kind of cagey about it, but at this point she's like, no,
this is what you call me. That's how it is correct, yes,
and that is where Kyori says that they should go
into business together her Val. With Kyori's knowledge of the
(10:34):
spiritual side and Vow knowing the natural side, they could
really have a good business. I love that they could.
They could.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
It's a good business again.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Kyri's got a good business sense.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
She knows what's going on.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
They continue to search the woods until they find the
well and the knoctover stones. They pushed the cover off
and use the jump rope gins jump rope that she'd
been caring to, say Virgil. And it's then that Val
reveals that she had a guinea pig named Lily Put.
Lily put Gulliver if you don't remember, that's Lily puts
(11:14):
the village in Gulliver's travel. So it's like another instance
of fate that they were meant to meet. Kori surmises
that fate brought all of them together. Virgil has gained
self confidence, Val has friends, she's her nightmare is kind
of assuaged. Kiori has a potential business partner, and Jet
(11:37):
hopefully we'll think about some of his actions.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
He's kind of left as a I don't think there's
a redemption r for that one with the father, he's
pretty bleak.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, that's like my best hope is that he'll recover
from the snake bite and actually think about it and
be like, oh.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I mean he was envisioning during that point of dying
or like being really aimed and being able to be
like heroically Hill, but I did face it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah. Yeah. So he doesn't join the friend group, but
they all they become friends and I'll talk about this
more in a second, but like true friends, and it's
very sweet and that's kind of where it ends. Mm hmm,
(12:39):
all right, Well that does bring us to our themes.
So one of the big ones is just kind of
this almost ethereal like seeing signs are going to psychics,
our astronomy or fate or nightmares and reading nightmares and
what does that mean? Which was really fun. I liked
(12:59):
that lot and trying to figure out just as a reader,
like oh what does this mean? Okay? Right, that was
really fine. And you know, at first, you don't know
much about Carrier's business. You kind of see the business
card and you're really interested because she's young. I think
she's twelve years old, she's around there, and so you're
like ooh, I want to know more about her. Yeah,
(13:22):
but she.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Was not wrong because she definitely interpreted that dream about
being afraid of being alone and the whole time, like
Valencia is like, no, you're wrong, No, I don't care
about being alone. I like being alone all these things.
But in nactuality, she's just been seeking a friend. And
we talked about the fact, like you know, she talked
about like having friends with upon a time and now
this is new, but like and then you know, Calorie
(13:43):
was like, okay, okay, I believe maybe you're not. Maybe
maybe I'm just off, But in actuality she was on
as well as the fact that she knew that Virgil
wasn't there and something was wrong, went into the woods
like she was on it. Oh. Yeah, Kyrie had a gift.
And I also loved her perspective of a like she
seemed like such an old soul about not bringing in
phones in her area, about not having all these things
(14:05):
in her area, like keeping that sacred. I was like, okay,
she's serious, serious.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, she had a bunch of rules, which I liked.
I was like, she seems to know she's got that's
something going on. Yeah, she If you want to come
get a vision from me. Here's what you gotta do.
You can't just show up beautiful. I love it. So
we have that. We have, as we mentioned Valencia having
(14:34):
this really strong connection with nature. You have Virgil going
through this whole thing in the well in the dark,
talking with Ruby, who represents hope, and then talking well,
seeing Paw and that being fear and kind of having
this back and forth and coming out Change came out
(14:56):
of the well, changed.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Speak to her.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, didn't tell his family, don't call me turtle.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
It took him a minute, it took him all the
going home. And you didn't mention the dog Sacred, Yes,
who is why Valencia goes through the woods in the
first place, not only to get to Calorie, but she
feeds this dog that's in the woods home like I guess,
roaming dog that she names Sacred, and she feeds him
in the woods and he follows her about and during
(15:26):
this time, the Sacred is a part of all of this,
and it kind of seems to insinuate there's something happening,
like there's like he may be like also a representation
here of part of that, and that could have been
a part of the strength because Virgil ends up going home,
and Sacred ended up following him, and when he's home,
he's like trying to get the nerve and like Lola,
(15:49):
who is a kindred spirit if there ever were one,
talking about you know, we're gonna keep the dog. We
can do these things for the dogs, because like he
brought home a dog and there's something meaning to this.
And during this time that she he's like, finally, like,
I don't want to be called turtle. I wanted to
be called Virgil or his full name or uh, you
(16:09):
know what I'm talking about, and uh, she finally and
the mother actually sees him for the first time. I
feel like that's a big sign of it. But it
took him still another minute to really get to that point,
because he had already whispered at once when he left
the house, right, I don't like you call me a turtle.
But when he got home he does slowly come back
to it, but he doesn't quite get there because he
(16:30):
doesn't talk the entire time. It when in front of
Valencia and they just kind of he just stares yea,
even though in his mind he'd made up all these
things and if I survived, these are the things I would.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Like to do. Mmmmm yeah. We'll talk about that towards
the end, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I didn't
really say it because I honestly wasn't quite sure, and
that's probably a side for how badly I am reading
these things. But he had like a crush on Valencia.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah, well he felt that she was strong, which is
exactly what also check the Bully saw too, like, because
she's strong and just her looks alone of like ugh
made him scared of her.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so she was a I think it
was a He had a lot of emotions about her,
but one of them was strong in like respect and
she's different than how I am and I want to
talk to her, so we also, I have a couple
quotes here Ruby's side. That's the problem. People don't want
to listen to their thoughts, so they fill the world
(17:32):
with noise. I just love that because I.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Feel like, yep, Ruby is an old soul. She kind
of does remind me of Cowie in that level of
like back and forth. Yeah, she's also an extension of Lola.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Mm hmmm yeah yeah, yeah, So here's another quote. Weakness
has nothing to do with how much you weigh Ruby hesitated. Sure,
maybe they can play sports and lift things, but that
doesn't mean that they're strong. There are men different ways
to be strong, and being a warrior has nothing to
do with size. Surely there have been small warriors before Yoda. Obviously.
(18:12):
Come on, I'll think.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
About the folklore that Lola Tel's with the guy, but.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Judge me by my size, do you? Come on? Here's
a quote from Kiori about their business, this business proposition.
I know about the spiritual world and you know about
the natural world. It's the perfect partnership. That's probably why
fate brought us together as friends. I just love this
idea so much. I'm so into it.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Oh they're so perfect.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, but there's a lot of elements like this. There's
a lot of things around. Like there's one idea of
getting letters from loved ones, like kind of after they've
passed on or whatever, and getting these letters. And I
feel like the ending for me felt like that, even
(19:05):
though I know that's not quite what was happening, but
real great, Yeah, because she gets a text message. Valencia
gets a text message at the end from Lola's number
that says hello, and she knows it's.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Not Lola and that was this whole thing was like,
I'll just need to say hello, that's it. That's all
I need to say, and everything else will happen.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah. So Virgil finally did it. And by the way,
it was like two thirty in the morning, right, which
has a different vibe when you're in middle school versus older.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
It's still unlike anything past ten thirty. I was like, oh, well,
my phone. Not to be fair like I've done it,
but I'm like, in my mind, you're not listening because
your phone is turned off and you're asleep, so you'll
just say the first thing in the morning. But she
was kind of always already alert because for the first time.
We'll talk about this probably later, but like getting all
(19:59):
these when she never got them from her mom, and
that made her so excited.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, yeah, it was very sweet. She got a lot
more textbustors than me. I have to say also, well,
because since she says she had like fifty.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, it was pretty high up there. No, that's gonna
make me panic. I'm gonna t my phone all.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
That's gonna make me think. I've like been called out
on social.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Media somewhere right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
As mentioned, fate is very big in this story, kind
of this idea like Jen had the jump rope was
what they needed to say Virgil, and all all these
things came together to bring them together and to make
sure that they did say Virgil. And that was something
I really liked it and definitely as a kid, I
(20:51):
would have ate that up. As you mentioned, also, animals
are pretty big in this book is a little animals.
We have Gulliver, the guinea pig, and then Lily put Sacred,
the dog who does seem to kind of have some
sense or something.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, we have the squirrel watching with Valencia as well
as Jane Goodall having a good mention here.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yes, I forgot about that.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Because that's why she went to observe the squirrels, because
she wanted to be Jane Goodall observed chimpanzee, so this
was her way of doing that. She's like, in one day,
I'll be known for observing these squirrels.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Squirrels are cool. They have secret stashes of acorns.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
That was not what I was reading for you to say,
I'm not gonna lie. I was unexpected. That was amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
They have secret stashes for me, they.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Do, And that's how she said she's gonna survive, and
you know what, respect that made me think maybe I
should do the same thing. So I'm not go.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
We gotta keep all of our avenue rooms open, you know, yes,
but also snakes. And I think, going back to your point,
the way at Chet, who is determined to catch the snake,
really looks down on Valencia and it's like she's a
witch when he clearly didn't do any research. He didn't
(22:16):
know what he was doing. I'll say it again. Even me,
I was like, no, that is not how you pick
up a snake. So there's sort of an element there
of like learning from your elders or at least doing
the research if you're going to embark on that having
the respect. It's kind of a Jurassic Park element. And
(22:38):
there as well, which is you know, as we talked about,
you don't really get the resolution with chet story like
you do with everyone else, but you do see him
learning this behavior from his dad. You do see him
(23:00):
picking up on that and wanting to kind of impress
his dad, but also like really shaping how he views
strength versus weakness. Yeah, so that was an elm. And
then who is it that has to help him? Is Valencia?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Right, I'll never admit it.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Oh no, probably not. So another theme friendship or into friendship.
Here's a quote friends. Something about the way she says
(23:39):
it makes me feel like I found something. I know
it sounds corny, but in that moment with that one word,
I already feel like a different person. Is that possible?
And so this is Valencia's feelings of when she has
she realizes like, oh I have friends. Oh I'm getting
the text messages like oh I have this group that
(24:00):
Actually I told them, can you look at me when
you're speaking so I can understand you? And they do,
But instead of making her feel bad about it.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Right, not even questioning or giving her looks or like
any of those things, and understanding that again, like Valencia
has a gift when it comes to studying and understanding
nature and loving things and paying attention to like their surroundings,
Like she has a bigger power and I love like
in this also conversation about names, I love that. I
actually I know a lot of Asian people having that
(24:31):
conversation of like changing their Asian names into something English
so that it's not so hard to say, or all
these things and the power of names in general, like
Valencia talks about loving her name and the fact that
she originally was gonna be like a more common Emily
or something I think name, and then her mom looked
at her. She's like, no, you're Valencia, and Lola's like, yes,
(24:52):
you are. Your name is power, and Colorie is the
same thing. She's like, no, my name is unusual, it's
different and it's powerful all these things, and Virgil is
the same thing. Virgil is very powerful and he wants
to be that, not Turtle, like all of these things.
It was very like I love that, and they kind
of all bonded over that, and I thought it was
really genuinely sweet and an amazing lesson to be given
(25:16):
because I have a feeling I was going try a
little bit of a try to a little purpose, but
like in this level of like talking to other Asian
people and them questioning my name and like, oh, actually
I'm adopted. They're like, oh, that makes sense. But then
they're like explaining their names, and I was like, yeah,
I want to say your name, don't change it just
because it's like, what is your name? So I can
say as it's given, unless you prefer not to be.
(25:38):
That's understandable. You have to grow into whatever you want,
or if there's other you know, things, But if you
love your name and it's you know, not common, then
we should all respect that. But like you know that,
there's power in that. It was cute, it was very sweet,
and they bonded over that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, that was a really lovely moment. And then they
found they found these friends, and they found the things
that they were also looking for as well, So that
was really really nice. And then I did appreciate how
disability was dealt with in this book, because Valencia does
(26:14):
have a hearing aid and she has been judged for it.
Like we said, she had this group, these friends who
didn't want to play with her anymore because she couldn't hear,
and it made them uncomfortable. She felt like she was
invisible even with her family in some instances. Here's a quote,
(26:40):
and my mom said that if they were real friends,
they would have figured out a game that all of
us could play. I can't stand when she says stuff
like that. It makes me think she doesn't get it.
Bad friends are better than no friends. And besides, I
thought they were my real friends in the first place.
That was the whole reason I was crying. And that's
so because later you do see her saying like, no,
(27:00):
I like being alone. I don't need these friends, and
so it's so heartwarming that she found the friends who
don't who are like, yes, if that's what you need,
that's what we'll do. That's okay. But I do think
it's also a fair point for her to be like
annoyed with her mom being like, oh, yeah, you'll just
(27:22):
find that. There's why I think it's fair that she
was upset.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Right well, obviously their mom parents, because she also talked
about wanting to learn sign language, and they're very dismissive
of that. Yeah, And I was like, oh, there's a
whole of course, Like I don't think again, it wasn't
a part of the problem. It was a brief mention,
but it says a lot about her parents really trying
to be just like just be normal. And I'm putting
that in quotes and hoping that they don't that she's
(27:52):
not so disenfranchised in this way and kind of dismissive
of her worries. It's kind of like when people have
dealt with like bullies or being picked on or any
of those things. Like when I would talk about the
microaggressions that I experienced instead of validating those true things,
and they'd be like, oh, they're just jealous, Oh they
like you. Like those really dismissive comments has kind of
(28:14):
happened from her parents in that same level, right.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And that makes you feel like you can't be completely
honest and is also kind of patroodizing in a way.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yea to be like, oh, it's okay, they don't they're
drims And you're like, but that's not true. That's not
how this works. They're being mean and I need to
recognize that, Like she's having to be tougher because her
parents are willing to handle it or take it seriously.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yes, exactly, And if you look in the acknowledgments, the
author did a lot of research with schools about people
who have hearing disabilities. So I think that's that's really cool.
And then a final theme because Virgil, while it is
(29:03):
like we said, everything turns out okay, it's an outmeat book,
Virgil does kind of face these thoughts of death and like,
like you said, if I ever get out of here,
if I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this.
Here's a quote of all the questions you ever ask
yourself in life, Never ask what's the point? It's the
worst question in the world. Ruby said, because he kind
(29:27):
of goes through. You know, I'm going to get out
of here. Oh no, it's hopeless. Oh no, I'm going
to die.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Right, What are my parents are going to say when
I disappear? Whatever happened? I want to be a legend
like Lola's story, right.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And having those thoughts of what would you do differently,
and then having the nice ending where he doesn't die
and he is found and then he finds friends, and
then he talks to Valencia, he gets the thing he
was going into the woods to you, right, it is
(30:02):
a really lovely kind of full circle story.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yes, yes, it is very sweet and it's very and
I'm really I was like, I'm afraid that Grandma's gonna
there's so many moments I'm so traumatized by children's books.
Then I'm like, this person's gonna die because I really thought,
Oh no, I thought the ending was going to be
that Valencia was going to discover him and that's that's
how they were going to become friends. No, but she
closed up the wells so well down never mind.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah. I mean if we were vis a horror, that
would have been a good horror, right.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I was like, no, I would be scared of that.
I would be scared of being stuck in the well. Like,
first of all, there's our water down there where you're
gonna drown all these things. I was horrified because I
thought that Gulliver was gonna die. I was like, no,
he loves like waiting for him to run away and
never be found again. I was like, no, yeah, it's
not like that.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
No, Gulliver is like his buddy too, That's what I'm saying.
And there's like little illustrations of him at the chapter.
He's so cute.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
And also that is also the thing about how like,
you know, guinea pigs are not supposed to be alone.
There are social creatures and all these things, and he
was figuring that out and wanted to ask for a second,
you know, guinea pig. I was like, oh no, yeah,
it turned out.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
You definitely were like, we gotta get Gulliver.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Right, we can Goliver out of there. But I did
love all of those things in that conversation because they
really do come together. Because we also talked like the
fact that Virgil does obviously have like a learning disability,
and there's a whole some of the things. There are
some offensive words in there that I was like, oh,
that was really okay. It's not wrong because we know
(31:44):
that there are main jarks in the world that will
taunt you for anything that is different, but like, it's
it's really interesting to see because he also finally stands
up to him. I think he yells at him and
then runs away or something, but like he doesn't ever
really like they don't face, but he just goes back,
(32:05):
like says something fondly to him and walks away, because
usually he's just running away from him, right or that
was also a plus. And would you see chat struggling
because he's trying to impress his dad and he knows
that his dad is disappointed that he doesn't make the
basketball team. So he's trying repeatedly to become a sports
person because his dad is very on him about that
and how his worth is based on how good he
(32:27):
is and like not just being okay, still he's still
a jerk.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, but it was kind of a sad thing to
see because you were like, he just wanted to bet
that that was like his entire thing is he wanted
to get on the basketball team.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, just so his dad could know he did it.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, But anyway, great book. Yes, I love a good
like children's tell.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yeah. Well, and it was really fun too, because I
think longtime listeners of the show know we love a
kind of different povs and then pieces coming together and
it's almost like a puzzle. It's really fun.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
She set it up nicely.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yes it was. It was really fun. And I say
this with like a total compliment, but it did go
by very quickly. I was surprised because I saw the
page count and I was like, oh no, I don't know,
but it's just a really you get so caught up.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
And engaging beast read because you love the storyline.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
So highly recommend. It's a good summary read.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It is a good summary.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I highly recommend. As always listeners, they let us know
if you have any thoughts or suggestions for future book clubs.
You can email us at Hello at stuff Onenever told
You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky
I'm Offso podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
I Never told You for us on YouTube or on
Tea public and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks always too, our super
(34:01):
producer Christina or executive producer and our contributor Joey. Thank
you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never Told
You is production by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio
app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to Favid shows
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