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July 24, 2024 • 42 mins

Natalie Lloyd's book Hummingbird is a moving, magical story about dreams, memory, family, friends, creativity, acceptance and finding yourself. We share our thoughts, discuss some themes, and (almost) shed some tears.

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stuff
Will Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. And today for
our book club, we're talking about Natalie Lloyd's twenty two
award winning book, Hummingbird. It is a young adult novel

(00:26):
that features several poetry sections. It is heartfelt and magical.
Samantha and I were just talking about it, and we
were both dropped tears by.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yes, it's defy different reasons, but yes, I feel.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Like similar ish reasons. But you had a more specific
reason than I did. Yes, what we will talk about.
You also listened to it via audio book yes, read.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
By Natalie Lloyd.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
And I don't know if this is somewhat autobiographical in
that like she wanted to be on the stage as
well or not, which is a part of the story,
because she did a great job. She did a great
job in doing voices, which I was very surprised by,
and she did she's rum Tennessee Chattanooga's but not too
far from us. Hello, but like, yeah, her accent was

(01:12):
on point.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yes, yeah, So I'm kind of jealous in that because
there are a lot of fun sayings in this in
this book, so good and uh as the date of
publications suggests. Spoilers. Spoilers throughout if you're interested in reading it.
The story follows all of Miracle Martin, a twelve year
old girl with O I or Osteogenesis imperfecta. Before we

(01:35):
get into the plot, I wanted to read a quote
from the author. Like Olive Martin, the protagonist of Hummingbird,
I was born with a brittle bone disease called osteogenesis imperfecta.
Oh I oh I means my bones break very easily.
Like Olive, I used a wheelchair or walker throughout middle
and elementary school. In most of my childhood photos, I'm

(01:56):
wearing a cast, and like Olive, the word fragile is
one I've heard used to describe myself and my body
for as long as I can remember. During middle school,
my self esteem got extra wobbly because of how I
felt inside my body. I think this is when I
first realized how different my body looked from my friend's bodies.
They grew taller, but I stayed extra short. Their legs

(02:18):
were straight, while mine were bowed and scarred from surgeries.
I didn't like being different. Sometimes I hated being fragile.
I'm fully aware, shaky, self esteem is not and maybe
has never been, an obstacle for every reader who has OI.
I believe a person's experience with disability is as unique
as that individual's heart for fingerprints. Yeah, so let's get

(02:42):
into the plot. Twelve year old Olive has been homeschooled
her whole life due to her OI, but she is
determined to go to Macklemore Elementary, where she believes she
will meet her BFF, her best friend forever. She lives
with her mom stepdad, who is also the pe teacher,
coach Malone, her stepbrother Hatch, her uncle Dash, and her

(03:03):
dad Jupiter, who kind of lives in a yurt is separate.
But together with that, she manages to convince her family
to let her give Machelmore a try, which is sort
of a castle by the way.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
The school it seemed very fantasy from the cho I
loved it.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
I loved that aspect of it.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
But yeah, yes, the description of the library, I was like,
oh uh huh, yes, is amazing. Things aren't exactly smooth
sailing for her, though. Her caretaker, the person assigned to
look out for her, Miss Pigeon, is overbearing and repeatedly.
Olive encounters people who call her fragile. Then she meets

(03:50):
Grace Cho, an aspiring entrepreneur, and learns the story of
a magical wish granting hummingbird that pops up every couple
of decades. All of become determined to find the hummingbird
to make a wish to strengthen her bones. But she
is not the only one looking for the hummingbird, so
she makes a pact with Grace to search for it

(04:11):
together and not hold it against each other. If the
other person gets the wish, they have an actual contract
they like draw up. This leads to a friendship with
the librarian, also the past discoverers of the hummingbird, and
her stepbrother Hatch, who wants to use it to wish
to find his lost dog Nah Yes, lost dog, notably

(04:36):
because you can't it's you can't wish life or death things.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Throughout all of this, all of makes friends, especially in
the school theater troupe. She auditions for an Emily Dickinson.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Play that I Was Like.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Whoa Okay, and gets the role of Bird of Joy,
but also gets the understeady role for Emily Dickinson. Things
go wrong, though, when she falls off the stage and
breaks her leg preventing her from searching for the hummingbird,
which is on a timer. Basically, it's like by the

(05:10):
blue moon on the night of the blue moon, you
get to find it. So and it also prevents her
from being in the play, or at least that's what
she thinks. She truly wishes Grace and Hatch the best
of luck and finding the hummingbird. Then she has a
conversation with her grandfather, who also has oi and who
has been like throughout the story mentioned knows a lot
about birds, who made a wish on the hummingbird last

(05:32):
time it appeared. He convinces all of that she doesn't
need the hummingbird to do everything that she wants to do.
Her and her family go to watch the play and
the director asks Olive to take on the role of
Emily Dickinson since the lead who was her daughter, had mono.
Olive does and nails it. Of course, the hummingbird appears

(05:55):
to her and she realizes that while her bones are fragile,
she is not and wishes her Hatch to find his dog.
She meets Grace after, who pretty much got her wish
without the hummingbird and was like, I'm good and Hatch
reveals that he wished for Olive to realize how amazing
she was, and then the dog, Yes Biscuit appears. Olive

(06:19):
writes poetry for the first time, the poetry book gifted
to her, and halfily ever after, it seems it ends well,
it ends on a high note, right.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, I think like one of the things about this book,
because you know, with a lot of young adult novels,
it could go pretty sad pretty quickly. One of the
things that you and I talked about when we were
finding books or movies specifically for Disability Justice Month, we
wanted something that wasn't dour, I guess is the best word.
We know. Again, just like the author said herself, everybody's

(06:51):
experiences are different, especially when it comes to their own
disabilities or whatnot. And she like talks about her own
desires and such, and we know that that's the case
in reality that people do often see this. It's just
a part of who they are, and it's not a
hindrance necessarily. It's just something that they've always had, that's

(07:13):
always been a part of them, and it's nothing worse
or better for anybody else. And we wanted something that
was just like a story essentially that celebrates that the
normality of having disabilities, and that is cool in itself,
and I think for this book they did a great job.
Natalie Lloyd did an amazing job and making the story

(07:34):
as like kind but honest as it could be. And
when I say kind, I really expected being girls coming
in with the Madisons, yes, and I was like, oh no, no, no,
but it wasn't. I was like, okay, cool, cool, cool,
you know, the like the even the most problematic people
were the people who were just like a little too
caught in infantalizing her because they were scared, which is

(07:57):
you know, reasonable when you don't when you're not aware
of what something is or how something can go, or
what incidents can happen, especially in like a crowded place.
You know, we see an incident that does happen. But
then I loved each of the characters that were so
different and they had such vibrant personalities of their own.
Between Dylan, I love Dylan in himself, like just being

(08:20):
who he is and him because at the first when
Grace was trying to find the hummingbird, she was trying
to recruit him, and Dylan was much like no no,
I can do this on my own.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
I know I have the talent. I don't need a hummingbird.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
I was like okay, oh, okay again, and all of
Who's like listening in and then Eve's jobbing. She's just
like yes, like she really wants to shout yeah because
like that type of added is so amazing. It was like, yes, indeed,
Grace found that out for herself and want to be
an entrepreneur, so she kind of figured that out later

(08:50):
as well. And I loved the relationship of her family,
such an amazing supportive family. Like I was like between
the good relationship the father and the mother and the
new husband, like I was like, Okay, y'all are actually cohabitating.
I like this and the like strength they give their
daughter without being over the top like with being parents.

(09:13):
For Coach Malone as well, like he's still a parent,
caring parent, kind of naive, really really too involved in
like go like the whole locker room thing. Was like, oh,
why would you do that to her?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, they like go be in the locker room, like
make friends or just talk to people.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
And She's like, I don't need to change out, so
I'm just sitting here watching give people get change. I'm
not gonna start introducing myself while someone's getting into there,
Like I'm.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Like, yeah, that's so awkward.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Why what Yeah, what made you think this is a
smart idea? But even Hatch and then Hatch seemingly having
the normal life and being all good but talking about
his invisible disabilities and the like really seeing that and
then about his dog Biscuit, and yes, this is where
I cried.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
I had a moment. I'm like, no, please tell me
he's okay, Like I.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Was not good and then he reappears and I was
not good again. It got me twice, like I'm tearing
of now we're talking about it.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
I can't help it. Dogs can't do that with pets
with me.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
And then yes, I love the like I just this
is my story once again is back to like, man,
I wish I had this as a good because this
made my but this would have made my imagination run wild.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, this level of love and like that.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
When I read the description when we were talking about this,
I was like, Okay, this is interesting. This is intriguing
because it's kind of does remind me of the old
stories where it was all tragic. They mentioned the bridge
to Terabithy a lot that scarred me to the point
that I think I've deleted some of the information about that.
But then with the minute her hole like search for

(10:58):
BFF and talking about and Green Gables. So that's the
first thing that pops in my head and she mentions it.
I was like, of course, there it is, and I
love that. And y'all know I love a good retake,
I love a good redo, and this was so perfect
in that her relationship with Grace, which was so sweet
and so loving, and that Grace was not about her disability.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
It was more about like, let's go.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
You have this smarts and I have this smarts, and
we got this as a combination, we are unstoppable.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
It was just, oh, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
For anybody who is a parent, or maybe some of
our listeners who are younger, this is an amazing book
to have as part of your imagination.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Reread is so sweet, it really is, and it's.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
I think, going back to what you said earlier, Samantha,
it does a really good job of It is a
very supportive, nice kind take that also deals with like
there's a lot of a lack of accessibility, but then
they find a way like her people in her life
help her find a way around that. So it's like

(12:07):
it's not unrealistic in that way, but it's just very
very kind.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
And also she's just determined, she's she's going to.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Find a way And I love the magical element of
it too, And I love how it's treated.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
It's yeah and then it's like a little bit. I
love it too, what the yes? Please? Where is mine? Then?

Speaker 1 (12:33):
The library is so eccentric because you've got like therapy
animals and it just sounded.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Like it's probably not exactly like exotic, but still I
was really hoping, and I know we're jumping all over
the place. I was really hoping that they would have
an accept about the ghost.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yes, there's a ghost mentioned in the library. And I
was also like, oh.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
This is going to pop up one this They didn't
get that deep into the lore.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
I guess no, well maybe maybe next time. Maybe next time, Well,
I guess we should get into the themes. Uh, starting

(13:23):
with yes, disability And I love this quote. This comes
on early because all of is just immediately a very
unique and fun personality. So here here we go. In
case you're curious, I have two wheelchairs. They both have names,
Dolly and Riba. Dolly's my sparkly custom fitted go two

(13:44):
set of wheels, I hot food, my name and rhinestones
on the back. I maneuvered Dolly's wheels myself and gosh,
I love the way she guides. Riba is motorized, with
a maroon seat and shiny red rims that sparkle in
the sun. Contrary to popular belief, I don't hate my wheelchairs.
They help me do whatever I want. I consider them
fine chariots, So don't feel sorry for me on account

(14:06):
of the wheels, right, I.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Love it hard talking about g and speed anywhere. I
think we've talked about that before with that feminists around
the world. We had the activists who she was talking
about her wheelchair and she loves it too. She's like,
I can will where they can't, you know, where they
have to walk, and I'm much faster than them. I
was like, yeah, yeah, that's nice. And I did her
whole style. I love that she has a style, and

(14:29):
she was every bit head to toe with her sunglasses
or her heart sunglasses, like that was her personality, not
the wheelchair, Like I just love that. That was the
descriptors and it was so vivid.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yes, yes, and you know, a reminder, this was the
first time she'd been homeschool, so this is the first
time she was going out. So she was like choosing
her clothes, you know, based on like the glitter and
all the stuff. She just had such a clear sense
of fashion who she was. But yes, this was she

(15:01):
did have the support of family. She does, and when
she first started at the school it wasn't It didn't
go quite as well, and she had encountered instances of
ableism before, including early on.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
The book starts with.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Something that happens at church, which is also something that
we had discussed in previous book Picks for Disability Pride months.
So here's the quote that girl as fragile as a
falling star, and that word fragile does keep coming back
and does keep appearing throughout.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
But then.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
This woman while they're at church comes up to all
of and kind of like it supposedly prophecy.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
It's specially a prophetic and I think in itself, like
we know, if any of us from southern churches know
this woman who comes in and prays over you and says, whatever,
maybe the problem is gonna heal you. And I have
a feeling she's a nosy butt that thinks she knows everything.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
I'm just saying.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
And this was one of the moments where Olive was
just sitting by herself and her parents weren't around, and
the woman actually tells Olive, I believe God wants me
to tell you that your life will not always look
like this. Makes sense, I said, sinking back against my
chair as far as possible. For some reason, I felt
smaller on account of the way she looked at me,

(16:29):
or maybe it was the way she was talking to me.
My voice came out small, too, so I cleared my throat.
I mean, I'm only eleven. Life's bound to change considerably.
She smiled and said, I mean you will not always
be in this terrible contraption. Someday you'll walk, You'll jump
right out of this chair. I believe God means to

(16:50):
heal you.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
And you all. My accent came out just now. It's
fitting fitting.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
I think it's because I'll listen to it, so I
hurt it anyway. Also, again, I have seen these types
of people who came through and saying, I believe God
wants this for you.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
God wants that for you.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Let me leave hands on you and heal you, which
is kind of one of those conversations when we have
about church in general, like thank God for those who
have their own faith and beliefs and aren't discouraged by this.
And as as she became discouraged, but she had people
around her who was like, noa, noa, Noah, there's nothing
wrong with you. Don't listen to this woman who was
somewhat out of her element and out and really just

(17:33):
being a nosy person and not realizing harms like that.
We've seen women like this and just saying your reverent
things as well as just very nosy, non non helpful
things for people. That has nothing like to do with
that person who feels like they need to speak on
based on the Lord. It's just based on their own

(17:53):
ableism and we know that and oftentimes we just wish
we could just cover their mouth up.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, I mean so many times it's about the person
wanting to feel better about themself and not at all about.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
The other person question who didn't ask for this.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
So it makes them feel like they they're closer to God,
which is a whole different level of competition.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
You're like why, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, but so that that happens, and that's when her
mom like rushes in and it's like, oh, I don't
listen to her, it's not right. And that's when all
of is like, I really really want to go to Macklemore.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
And her mom says, all right, you write me a sermon. No,
that was all his own plans.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
She was like, I will write you a sermon, and
I will talk you into this. And this was doing
when all of a sudden, large white mass and they
whether it was like snowflakes. Some of them said snowflakes,
some of them says sleep some of the some of
them said fog came in and this and her uncle
Dadh had already been like, oh, there's something happening. There's
something in the wind, there's something coming, very mystical. So

(19:01):
you get this idea that this book is bigger than
just ugh just a tale in which they talk about
how this has happened before. And yes, they're actually feathers,
but the feathers dissolve like like snow. They live like
traces behind. She says glitter, the lives a little glitter
on her and that this has happened every few years.

(19:23):
And then it's significance to the birds, because birds is
a big part of the story because she is an
avid bird expert as with her grandfather, and she knows
a lot about birds, so this was a huge point.
So she was like, yes, something isn't the wind, it's happening,
it's time. This is a sign, and she does her sermon.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
She does, and she convinces them to let her try mackelmore.
She is so excited. This is the thing she wants.
I did love that it was the BFF she was
most excited about. That was great.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
But yeah, she gets to school.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
She has the greatly named Miss Pigeon, who who is
supposed to kind of be her guide, but she is
like way over the top, thinks that she all of
is fragile, can't do anything. People avoid her because they're
nervous because it's like the whole school has been told

(20:15):
Olive's coming in. She's fragile. Hatch also didn't want her
to go, although you later find out there were other
reasons why, but he was worried about hurting her and
looking out for her. So here's a quote. People have
called me disabled before, I call myself disabled. It's not
a bad word, and it feels as neutral to me
as having brown hair. It's one part of who I am,

(20:36):
but her tone made disabled feel different, and not in
a good way, more like a scratchy sweater way. I
don't want special treatment. I just want to be myself, right. Yeah,
And this was after a pretty disastrous yeah lunch.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah all right, that's when I thought I was going
to be a mean girl session and I was like,
oh no, but like instead, it was kind of an
ablest moment of like leave her alone. She's that's that's
not the way, that's not the way to go, but okay.
And then miss Pigeon she had such high hopes because
she seemed cool the way she was dressed, but then
she just ended up being like even more, which is
understandable when you don't know. And the parents had come

(21:15):
in with like a pretty big speech to prepare everybody,
so it kind of went beyond uh. So the introduction
is a rough start, a rough start, yes. And then
here's another quote. It's because fragile is how people always
describe me, that or short, and I wish they see
other things, like my dark hair, or my heart shaped sunglasses,

(21:37):
or even my dress which is full of mushrooms and
garden homes. It's so jazzy. But what people see is
the fragile part. It's strange how my bones are inside
my body, but there's still somehow. The first thing people see,
fragile is what I'll always be. I get that, but
I am a thousand other things too. I'm whole constellations

(21:57):
of wonders and weirdness and hope, which.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
She was just Yes, in those like short sentences, you
learned so much about her character, and it is like
she's got a great sense of fashion.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
She's just really interesting.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Also, she has like a best friend who is a Pelican.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Felix, which I was like, what is it? He's such
a comedic.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
How much fish does she buy?

Speaker 3 (22:22):
I don't know, but he was a comedic presence.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
I could tell if this was like a movie because
he's constantly like running into the window.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
He's fine everyone.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
But she always says she actually says that he's fine.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, just so he's all right, I will say.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
So.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
When we were picking this book, we were worried about
the wish, and that the wish would be I wish
I didn't have this disability. And so when I was
starst reading it. I was like, uh oh uh oh
uh oh. But it turns out, it turns out all great.
And there is a great quote from the author about

(23:00):
having this when you're younger, having this kind of back
and forth, especially when you're starting school, and there's just
some things that because of accessibility or whatever, you can't do.
But there were instances of internalized ableism, especially after transitioning.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
From homeschool to public school and seeing how people treated it.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Or there's a scene in the locker room where I
guess the dudes had made a list of the hottest
girls in their grade.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
And had yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
All of sees it. And here's the quote, this is
what pretty looks like. I realized, according to the list,
this is number one, sixth grade, gorgeous, and it's the
opposite of me. And it was Madaline number one, because yeah,
they go by numbers.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
It's three. I guess that's three or four three, there's three, okay,
But the third one didn't seem into it.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
No, third one was just like just caught up in it,
just like I don't I don't want to be.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
She's like, actually I go by Madeline. I think that
they all go by Maddie. But she would Madeline.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
But it was nice because in the end there is
this really powerful moment where all of has this sort
of refrain my bones are fragile, but I am not.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
And we'll talk about that more later.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
But I think calling the Madison, haven't I Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I confuse them with Madison, but they I think they
are Madeline.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yes, and they're Maddie's but they.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Go by Maddie, and so in my head they're Madison,
which is not the case. Yeah, and I think once
again it's a good point about talking about the fact
that she didn't think any of this, yeah, until other
people told her what she couldn't do, and especially with
the play, like she really wanted to be in the play,
but the person who she really hoped would be one
of the more like open not open, like just people

(25:01):
who would just treat her normally because she seemed eccentric
and out there was one of the ones who told
her how many things she couldn't do, including saying, maybe
we'll put you, we'll put you in something, we'll let
you be a tree.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
We're just like yeah, yes, and maybe you can like
help director.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Right, and then like at the and the kids are
the ones that finding solutions were like, we can make
a ramp. We can do that, that's really easy, and
other kids will be like, yeah, she's not the only
one who's going to need a ramp.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
That just makes sense.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
So like it was interesting to see, But this change
of attitude came much later because of what other people
told her she couldn't do.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yes, absolutely, she didn't have this in her head until
until she went to this school and people were like
treating her differently. I also wanted to touch on a
point I didn't have this in here originally, but because
you brought it up and so many things I saw
brought it up. Hatch does have an invisible disability, and
a lot of people were write about how that meant
a lot to them reading about that when he opened

(26:04):
up about it, because he was sort of the closed
off step brother and you weren't really sure why, and
then you thought you find out, like he's kind of
lying to his family about what he's involved in, and
then you find out why. And he's talking about like
why he always wears the same hoodie and it's a

(26:24):
very sensory kind of thing, and then he's talking about
his dog biscuit. But yeah, a lot of people wrote
about how that was also a really impactful thing for them,
right to read.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
And then her assumption that he was okay and he
just didn't like her, like yeah, and vice versa, like
he really and he compared his to he's like, you
don't need this. You've got a great family, you have
like kind of you have a handle on your disability.
I don't type of thing conversation, you don't need this,
which I do, please give it to me.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
And it was based on the dog.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, okay, But like I thought, it was a great
rate turn because she saw this person who she thought
really had it all and then like he really.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Thought she had it all.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
And then that conversation that really brought them closer together
and how close they become and how they opened up
to each other was just beautiful and I really appreciated that.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, they do get a really close relationship and it's
really rewarding at the end. I don't what I was about. Also,
as you mentioned, change is a big theme in this.
There's a lot of like changes on the wind. There's
a lot of imagery around birds finding your wings. Grace

(27:40):
makes bird wings, which I would have loved when I
was a kid, but also, yeah, just all of going
to school and having those those new experiences in life.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
There is a theme of spirituality. Here's a quote.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Mostly when I pray, I picture God holding my heart
up very gently to his ear, like one of those
big fancy seashells with an ocean sound inside it. I've
got a thousand tiny oceans inside me, and I think
God listens carefully to every crashing wave, all the fears
and hopes. Even if he doesn't answer every single prayer,
I think he keeps my heart safe.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
That was one of my favorite lines. She does such
a great job with that. Yeah, yeah, she did.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
But it was so nice too, with the themes of magic, and.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
I kind of liked how the magic was.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
It was exciting, but it was sort of accepted, like
it was just like, yeah, that's what's happening.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
And I love how when they talked to the three
people who had gotten the hummingbird wish last time, there
felt like there was something magical about each of them,
but then it sort of turned out that no, they
were just living their lives, and you know, some of
some of that worked out better than others, but it

(29:05):
was neat, like seeing what's her name, nest with the
apples and she has that dance like it just felt
so yeah, I love this.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, I feel like Luthor really like I love this again.
This is kind of one of those things again when
I say I wish I had this as a good
because it's got such a great vibe and depth. But
like when they talk about the fact that he loved
thinking about the childhood, when they said you are part
of the bloombird society, Like she's like, you're a part
of this, and he lights up because it reminds him

(29:36):
of such good times with him and his brother searching
for the hummingbird themselves and then making those wishes.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Like it was.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
That kind of level of magic that I see in
this entirety of the book because of the search, but
because of the self finding. Yeah, And I think that
was the same thing for Martin and Luther. Obviously in
Luther like losing his brother and waiting still for her brother,
which yes, it's also got my heart to come back,
But like that level of his acceptance being this title

(30:07):
as the grouchiest man, the grautiest man in town, to
realizing that he's just dug gone through a lot of
loss and that be reminded of those good times of
his youth. I'm like, oh, oh, that's magical. Why And
then you also see the memories when they go and
find the other birds, rememory birds, birds, memory remembering birds,

(30:33):
and they got to see a part of that as well.
They saw them in the youth, they saw the dog
biscuit and so much more. So, like it was like,
I love that this magic is also kind of that
spirit of child as well.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, like making those memories and looking back on them
and the important thing being the people you were with
when you made them. And also Luther was the one
that helped Grace get her wish her dream. Yeah, so
I really loved that. I really loved that. And yeah,
the memory birds I love for listeners who've never read this. Essentially,

(31:11):
so they have what they call.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
The Judy Bloom.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
It's like a friendship group and they're collecting friends throughout
and they all of calls her grandfather who knows a
lot about birds, and the call is breaking up, but
she can hear them say memory birds, and then they
go and find them and they see all of these memories.
It's a really beautiful scene, and that helps them kind
of figure out where they.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Think the hulming Bird will be.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
They get a lot of different clues and that makes
sense at the end. But I love that too, kind
of the mystery of it. Another theme, writing and creativity.
Here's a quote that's one of my favorite feelings in

(31:58):
the world. Pen to paper and a page full of words.
I could write a thousand things in my lifetime, plays
and poems and short stories and songs, and never ever
get sixth the way words feel when they spin out
of my soul. So she's a very creative type. Yes, yes,
if it's not clear why wanting to be in the
play and just having all of these ideas, she was
very smart when thinking about the Summing Bird. But also yeah,

(32:22):
she loved to write, and she loved to write poetry,
and that's there. As I said, there is a lot
of poetry that she writes throughout the book.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
And I will say, like, there's a lot of like
kindred spirits, if there were, if she were to name
them that. And then one of them is her first
teacher that she meets, mister Watson, And here's a quote,
because he's also just as passionate as she is. He says,
we believe three things in this class, olive. First, we
believe that miracles surround us every day we take time
to notice them. Second, we believe every person deserves respect

(32:53):
and kindness. And third we believe and inkpen is a
direct line to a person's heart. Your words are a
kind of magic carry inside. That's why we write each
morning to turn the magic loose. So he had given
him an assignment. He was the one that told him
the Tale of the Honeybird.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yes, and I love the scene where he like, excitedly
is like chicken eggs are hatching, America is happening, And.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
I believe this could be very real intimacy.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Yeah, yep, I believe it too.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
I say that So came from a country school in Georgia.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
As we've already discussed, acting is a big thing. All
of really really wants to be on stage. It did
make me laugh because I did, in fact play a
tree when I was in elementary school.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
I was Tree number two.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Number two, wasn't that, But that was due to my
poor acting ability and not able.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
I mean, it's better than being in high school playing
the black servant girl with a really bad because I
was the only minority. She would never say that rip
my drama teacher, who was actually a really great drama teacher,
and I loved her to death. But that microaggression kind
of casting was like yeah, ay, and if anybody ever
finds those tapes and calls me out on it. I

(34:14):
followed the script as it was written, and it was
really bad and I feel bad about it now.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Oh no, I have those things too. Yes, in that
like it was more of what was worse.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I mean, look, when I think about it, I'm like, man,
I suffered through some things in high school and I
really thought I was doing well. I take that as
a compliment. I should not have oh dear, well anyway,
going back, the tree is better.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
The tree was better. A tree was better.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Also, there is a kind of a theme of using
art as an escape an inspiration throughout. There's just a
lot of references and things that she loves. She's very
nerdy in what she she'll bring up, which I you know,
a door.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yes. Family, Family was a big theme.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Here's the quote from her mom. Your name was a
hallelujah for the whole world to hear, because no life
should be a whisper remember that, Okay, you're not a
miracle because you have brittle bones or because you use
a wheelchair or walker. You're not a miracle if you don't,
you're a miracle because you exist. Everybody is. And that's
when she's talking about why all OF's middle name is miracle.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, and then there's a whole breakdown because when Olive
decides that she was going to make a wish for
her bones to be stronger, she knew because of the
comments like that, her mom would be somewhat disappointed. So
there was a conversation between her because she finally tells
her dad, Jupiter, that she was looking for it. Who
told her mom and mom was like, what are you

(35:55):
wishing for? And she told her very hesitantly because she
she had a feeling, and this was the response, I
just I don't want you to feel like you have
to live in a world where you wish part of
yourself away. Maybe that's not what your wish is about.
I hope it's not, because all of you is wonderful.
So yeah, this is when she doesn't tell her mom
because she was kind of scared. Yeah, the reaction, but

(36:17):
her mom knowing who she was and knowing she's had
some difficulties with school already knew.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
And then at the end, the grandfather we've been hearing
about all this time shows up and here's what he says. Quote,
here's what's going to happen, kiddo. As you get older,
your world will get bigger and bigger, and you'll realize
there's way more that you can do than you can't do.

(36:47):
It just takes time for us to see it. Birds
are born with wings. The rest of us have to
find our wings as we go, and you will allive miracle.
You'll find them and you'll fly.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
Moving.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
And I do think going back to the memory birds,
like those memories are present throughout two of how they
impacted people's lives and how through generations they impact people.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
That was a pretty big theme. And then lastly, friendship again,
I love the search for the BFF was like all
of his number one goal. That's what she was so
excited about. And going back to a point you made earlier, Samantha,
here's a quote. But you know how Diana has Anne
and the green Gables books, or how the girls and
the Babysitters Club all have one another, That's what I

(37:37):
think is missing in my life. I'd like one true
BFF to spend my time with. It's sweet and it's.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Really fun in the beginning because she's like, maybe this
person is bff.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
She started talking about maybe I could be with a
Maddie or maybe I can hang out with Villain.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
He's school.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Her interactions with Ransom is also very sweet as well.
She accidentally like pells him in the leg with her chair.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
She's like, oh, no, you, and.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
He was very sweet, gives her a pen, talks about
how he has an element of magic, about how finding
random things and he felt like he's supposed to give
him to people. So cute, and then having the dance
with her or she wants to dance with her. I
love the friendship too.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah. Yeah, they were really cute. And she accidentally introduced
herself as new all of to him.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah that was very fun, which sounds like, again something
I would do.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
Yes, Yeah, and I did like at the end because
I feel like, you know, it was becoming clear as
the story progressed what the I don't even want to
say moral of it was.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
But kind of what generally happens with the hummingbird, and
so I like at the end that they pretty much
all gave up their wishes for each other the other.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah, and I think that's the biggest thing, is I
like the hummingbird. Really they say that you'll only say
in the legend, you'll only say what's on your heart,
so you can't even really choose. Because each one of
the people that they like had talked about one said
I just want to be happy, and then he realized
that he was with, you know, all these things. The
other one was I just want a friend, and it

(39:18):
turned out to be his wife. He was with the
only one you know all those things, and she realized
that she was Okay, She's like, I want she was
thinking about Hatch as well as Hatch thinking about her
missing out on her opportunities because she she wanted to
be on the plane. He's like, I wish that you
would be happy on the play, at the play and
being successful. Were you able to do this? Like it

(39:39):
was so cute because it was in their hearts. It's
just genuine kind love for each other.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Yes, Yeah, it was very very sweet. I definitely got
two Your eyed the dog, Yeah, the dog came back everybody.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
And then also we've been talking about this, but I
just want to reiterate it because I loved it. I
did like the whole I love when Grace was like, actually,
I figured out, you know what.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
I can do this, I.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Can give my mentor I didn't need that, he asked me.
That's how I was going.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
I really liked it.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
And I think sometimes I would be like, that's what
you're wishing for, But when you're a kid, you know,
of course yes, that's but that's success, that's something that
you really want. And I really loved that. I loved
how it kind of became like, oh, yeah, I figured
it out.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah it was.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
It was very again, like all these things ended up
being exactly what they need without knowing that they needed.
I love the whole Hummingbird kisses and that in the
way that she spoke out, she's like, I am fine
being me. She speaks, my bones are fragile, but I
am not like it. And they're like, wait, is this
a part of the play. Does Emily Dickinson say this?

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Sweet?

Speaker 1 (40:47):
What?

Speaker 2 (40:47):
But that's what she keeps saying out loud to the
hummingbird and then truly wishes for, you know, she realizing
that she is she is not fragile and It was
very sweet. It was a very good, feel good. Every
turn of it was like a feel good with a
little suspense. And I could definitely see this being a show.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Oh yeah, I could do again.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Like the setting of the school, even the town, Oh
my gosh.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
I loved it. Yeah, highly recommend, I highly recommend. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Probably one of my top five of all the books
that we've read, and we've read a lot.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
We have read a lot, we have read a lot.
It was very.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
It was it was just like a fun, unique, mysterious friendship,
heavy family heavy like it was just yeah, a lot
of things.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
That I really like. Full magic. Yeah. Yeah, felt healthy.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
All the relationships felt healthy, even when they weren't communicating.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yes, yes, yes Wow. Listeners. If you have any thoughts
about this, or if you have any suggestions, please let
us know. You can email us a Stephanie mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at momstep podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
One Never Told You for us on YouTube. We have
a tea public store and we have a book you
can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always

(42:14):
to our super produced Christina Executive producer Maya and our contribute. Joey,
thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I
Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from my Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeartRadio
ap Apple podcast Wherever you listen to your favorite shift

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