Female Firsts: Bertha Parker Cody

Yves uncovers the many layers of Indigenous archaeologist (and actress) Bertha Parker Cody.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Smithla and welcome to stuff
I've never told you precture. I heart you, and it's
time for another edition of a female First, which means
we are once again joined by the insightful, the inquisitive Eves.

(00:25):
Welcome Eves. Hello, thank you for the intro of course. Well,
Eve's always good to have you on. How have you
been since we last spoke.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I have been good, so chill. Not many updates, not
much going one over here. To be honest with you,
the best update dates I have is that now I'm
using an electric blanket underneath underneath my bitch Jeeves. That
is my comfort. Everybody take comfort in my comfort in
the eaves right now. Thank you very much. That's what

(00:55):
I got to say.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Look, I am a big fan of electric blankets. Brag
about it to any often because I will be like
that is my favorite thing is to sit somewhere and
just be tucked underneath an electric blanket when it's super
super cold. It makes me feel like I've won something.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
That's a good way to put it. I like that.
It's nice.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Eaves was describing the whole setup to me before we
started recording, and that sounds very like a luxurious comfort
that you can It feels luxurious, such a nice thing.
You can get into your bed and it's nice and toasty. Well,
I am so so excited to talk about who you
brought today, Eves. I actually know the answer to this

(01:38):
question for Samantha, but I was curious if you have
any experience with archaeology, or if you ever went through
a phase where you were really interested in it.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
So yes, I have, and that was because of a
module I did in one of my classes when I
was in elementary school. So it wasn't that I thought
I wanted to be an archaeologist or paleontologists or anything related.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
It was just that I thought it was cool.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
And this was around the time of like Magic Treehouse books,
and I was like super into the Magic tree House books. So,
if anybody doesn't know there were like elementary age books,
super thin. I don't think they were illustrated, but they
were about time travel through this treehouse that the character
would go to and so they went all to all
these different kinds of civilizations and times, and so they

(02:29):
went to ancient Egypt, the pyramids, all those things, and
so I think it was like I was in that
phase where I was learning about that. I also did
have modules that I was doing on things like ancient Egypt,
and so there was some interest that I had in prehistory.
Loved dinosaurs, still loved dinosaurs. Those are things I was into.

(02:50):
So I was kind of orbiting around it. And you
know what's funny, I was thinking while I was looking
up everything for this episode, I was thinking about dinosaurs,
which is kind of how I got here, and I
remembered I had this flash of a memory where I
had this kit that was a big piece of dirt.

(03:14):
It was like a big chunk of dirt and you
bought it from somewhere and you could dig up bones
like you could dig up a fossil in that kit,
and I had one of those. I have no idea
where I got it from, because I feel like I
don't know if it was just like a Walmart or something.

Speaker 5 (03:30):
That had it.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I feel like it wouldn't, but I don't know where
it came from. And I had that little memory, so
I was definitely a little bit into it, but not
super super into it.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
What about y'all, I'd.

Speaker 6 (03:42):
Like to imagine that was a gift to you because
they knew you so well.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
It could have been. It very well could have been.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm thinking the do you all remember the Discovery Store.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
Oh, yes, it's that. I loved that place.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
But it could it seems like it could have come
from there, like.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
A museum, yeah, yeah, or firm bank, like I could
see like them.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yes, and the firm banks. I loved the firm banks
when I was young. Oh yeah, I mean, I guess
that's an important thing to bring up if everybody doesn't
know the Firm Bank, the Firm Bank. There are a
couple museums in the Atlanta area, and so I did
they have giant dinosaur bones their replicas of them that

(04:25):
you can see there, and just things about natural history
and biology and science. And then they have a science
center as well. I went to both of them as
a child, have lots of fond memories of going to
them with my class. And did I spend the night
in that museum? I know I spent the night in
the zoo once, but I feel like I might have

(04:48):
spent the night in the museum, but I might be
remembering misremembering that. But yes, that that alighted my interest
in natural history and like prehistory as well.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, firm Bank's awesome. I think they retired one of
the like dinosaur walks recently and they I think so. Yeah,
they like did a whole celebration about it, like a
goodbye party because.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
It was so beloved.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
And tickets cost they have the amount of the date
it opened, which was very cheap.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah, I remember this.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
This is bringing up so many memories, but I remember
that's where I first touched a squid because it was
a dead squid that.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
They passed around. I know, it's getting weird, it's getting weirder.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Boy the word they passed around a dead squidiums.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
Yeah, no, I know one of the auditoriums they did.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yes, Oh yeah, they did do that because I think
the squids were one of the things that we dissected.
So I missed the day we did the dissection of
the squid module.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
It's okay.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's okay that I miss that when I was which
is great. But I think that's probably why squid was
getting passed around. I have no idea what the reason
for that.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Is, but them poor squiods. So many memories being uncovered.
I love it. Yeah, well, Samantha, uh you, I hope
I'm not misremembering this, but you actually have some experience.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, yeah, you you're very correct, because I think we've
talked about this with our activists around the world when
we talked about archaeologists. But we had a whole project
ease in our middle school year. I was in like
a specialized grade where they were experimenting with us, so
we had teens and for some reason, we had some
interesting things that we did, including the fact that we

(06:41):
actually started doing an archaeological dig in the back of
our preschool, which was an area that indigenous First peoples
were there and lived there before you know, the massacres
and all of the uprooting, but that we found so
many things back there to the point like we had
like I think it was like four feet by four
feet plots. And this is how you have to start

(07:02):
it is to do excavations and then to see if
there's an't anything there, and then if you do find
things there, you continue to dig. And we actually found
so much, including what looked like remnants of a whole village,
and so they made us we were allowed to do
it for like two to three years. Like we were
able to grow it because we got to spread it around.
But we had to finally stop and allow real archaeologists

(07:24):
to come in and do digs. But we discovered a
lot in that area and had a lot of fun.
So I have huge memories. It really did think I
was going to be an archaeologist, and then I realized
school and I was like, yeah, I can't afford that.
But we had like a whole thing in our middle
school and it's one of my fondest memories to the fact
that I have classmates who did a PBS or GBS

(07:47):
because it's, you know, Georgia Broadcasting special about Edawa Mounds,
because we were so linked with all of that.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Which people were advocating for that to become a national park.
Am I correct in saying that the Edawa?

Speaker 3 (07:59):
My oh, I don't remember, because in my head I'm
getting confused with the fact that the area was a Catoosa,
you know, so many things, and there was like I
think the Cherokee Nation was the most known in our area,
and that's all I remember.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
I have a very important question for you as well, Samantha.
Were you compensated for the work that you did did get.

Speaker 7 (08:27):
Of course school, we were still just really excited about
the first of all, a we didn't have to do
classroom work, and so we were in the back, playing
in the dirt, discovering these new things, like.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
The excitement we had every time we found almost like
half pottery, and understanding how old it was was so
big that we of course we did not think about
anything of that. Now again we knew how important it
was and how sad we were when we was taken
away from us because it was so significant.

Speaker 6 (09:00):
And they're like, yeah, you have to stop now.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
See this is the level of my jadedness, because on
the surface, yes, this is a very endearing situation because
y'all are doing something.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
You love, you're actually learning and your hands on with it.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
There's probably an element of it where you're learning better
because you're actually enjoying your process.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
But then I'm just like these evil adults, like.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
They're like, I know, we can get them to do it,
and they all love it, so why don't we just
get them to work?

Speaker 4 (09:28):
And you know it's do all of the child labor laws. Yeah, yah, yeah,
it's for learning. We can just do it.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
And so I'm like, no, there needs to be an
s grow somewhere where there is an a dollar amount
per hour.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
That has been calculated and you're gaining interest on that.

Speaker 5 (09:44):
So what I need you to do is go go
back and got The funny is I think my teachers
really tricked the school system as well as actual archaeologists.

Speaker 6 (09:57):
And thinking that there was nothing there.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
You know, They're like, there might be a little bit,
but not realizing what they were uncovering was historical and
would be of relevance. So like I think in itself,
we kind of booked the system to begin with until
it was taken away from us. Like we did get
a little credit, but in actuality it's not a credit.
And of course there was a lot of dispute because

(10:20):
I want to say the area where we dug, which
should be preserved, is not because again it was an
area that showed an actual culture and village lived there
before they were uprooted.

Speaker 6 (10:30):
And kicked out by white people.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
But I don't think it was, which is really sad
in itself because every time I passed that area by
the way, I tell my partner, who's usually with me
because we're going to see my family, that I'm like,
that's where our archaeology did and.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
He's like, I know, I know.

Speaker 6 (10:47):
It's so excited.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, but yeah, but you like, it's definitely I don't
know who got like any credit. I don't know what
any of this I will say. I know there was
a big disci but by a person who said they
were from the tribal peoples, and they were like suing
for it to be stopped as it wasn't like a
burial ground, but it was a village, so like obviously

(11:12):
it's important. So I don't know what happened after that.
But yeah, I will say that ediwell mounds, as I
was looking it up, it really doesn't give them a name,
just as Native Americans of the Mississippian culture, So.

Speaker 6 (11:23):
I don't know what that means.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Usually they have actual nationality like nations, So I don't
know why they put it like that. We'll take into
it further, but yeah, I digrege that because this sounds.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Like the beginning of a very non PC horror, right,
Indigenous peoples as the ones who at once create the
horror and also magically solve it through their like you know,
exotic powers.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well, I feel like Samantha's story is such a good
segue into the person we brought today. I'll tell you
that I didn't have a cool thing like that. I'm
incredibly jealous. I would have loved that. I went through
a huge dinosaur like Jurassic Park phase of my life.
I loved fern Bank. I had the little kids too,
where you could, you know, put dirt on and then

(12:27):
uncover things. But most of mine was yeah, media related.
But if I had known about this person, she would
have been a hero of mine. Yes, I'm so, so
so excited to talk about her.

Speaker 6 (12:41):
Me too.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
So who did you bring it for us today?

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Her name is Bertha Parker Cody, and she was the
first Native American woman archaeologist to be employed.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
By a major museum.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
But we'll kind of get a little bit more into
the context of the first later because she's also been
referred to as the first female Native American archaeologist in general.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah, so we'll get into that.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Later after we talk about her legacy and some of
the things that happened around it, because, as y'all know,
there's often a lot of nuance.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
Underneath underneath all of the layers.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
To be not to be too on the nose, and
speaking of all of the archchaeology and paleontology things we
were just talking about, I'm not gonna lie like this
probably did start with dinosaurs, and I was like, wait, like,
have we talked about a paleontologist yet? Is there one
I have on my long, running, long, long list. And

(13:36):
I was like, you know it just I started suspend
in these circles and my stomach started to turn as
what happens as I do when I'm like thinking about
who I want to talk about, and because there are
so many problematic things about the field of archaeology, anthropology
and paleontology, because we're talking about going into places that

(14:00):
may need to be preserved, that are on some sort
of potentially historic or they're on cultural lands. A lot
of the times it's people extracting from places that aren't
their places. So it'll be a lot of British people,
it'll be Italian people, it'll be people from places in
Europe going to Mongolia, you know what I mean. And
they're leading the expeditions, and even in cases where they're

(14:21):
working with locals, they're the ones who precipitated the extraction.
And then once they do get those artifacts, which are
extremely valuable, they might go back to outside places. And
then in those outside places, like the people who are
running the show there just also might be awful people,

(14:42):
or they just their focus might not necessarily be on
being respectful of cultural heritage, let's put it that way.
And then on top of that they're like a slave
owner or something like that. That kind of thought process
is there. So I was just like, oh my God,
like and I'm looking through all these first. I like
to make sure that I bring a variety of people here,

(15:03):
but I also do love to talk about people who
are doing who are Indigenous, and who are uplifted for
work in their own lands, known in their own countries,
in their own communities. I think it's really nice to
be able to talk about that, even if their stories
are small, even if I don't have access to that

(15:24):
much information, I should say, because I don't speak the language,
because I didn't grow up with knowledge of this person
like somebody in their community might have.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, Yeah, And I think that's why when I was
reading about this person again, I wish I'd known about
her much earlier. It resonated with me so much because
I do think that that's really really important to have
someone who has that aspect to that side to the
work that she did. It was just so refreshing to

(15:54):
hear about honestly, and we are.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Going to get into a little bit more about the
context later. Like I said, and this might be a
little bit of my hindset bias, but you know, the
story that Samantha was just telling about digging stuff up
at her school, I was just thinking, man.

Speaker 4 (16:12):
It would be so nice.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Like when I was young and I was learning about
archaeology and paleontology outside of firm bank, this isn't I
can't remember exactly what was happening at the like actual
institutions I would go to, but from a more like
in my own school context, there was no thought process
for me of what it meant to dig up remains
that are related to a specific culture's heritage. And I

(16:35):
feel like you cannot ignore that. What is the age
appropriate way to bring that up in context? Because it's
not just for me. I was just thinking, oh, look,
it's so cool. These are really old things. But like,
who's old things? What is the concept of belonging? Who
do they belong to? Why do we need to study
this over somebody else? So, you know, important to say.

(16:59):
But all of that said, I'm really glad that we're
talking about Bertha Parker Cody today because she's bringing up
some of those questions, and she herself was an indigenous woman.
So shall we start at the beginning of her story.
Let's do it, okay. So she was born Bertha us Parker.

(17:21):
I might be mispronouncing that, but it's spelled y e was,
And I just want to say that name here, even
though throughout the episode I will be referring to her
as Bertha, because other people did call her us. She
was born in nineteen oh seven, and she was born
in Chautauqua County in New York. And she was also
nicknamed Bertie. Her mother was Beulah Tamat and her mother

(17:45):
was an actor who was descended from the Abanaki people.
And her father was Arthur C. Parker, and he was
an archaeologist, and he was the first president of the
Society for American Archaeology, a member of the Seneca Nation,
and he was director of the Rochester Public Museum. So
he had all of these jobs related to archaeology and

(18:07):
anthropology and museum. So as you can see where Bertha
Parker Cody would be able to get to her first
and when she was a child, she often went to
excavations with her dad, and indeed she was even born
in a tent in one of her dad's excavation sites

(18:29):
in New York. But her parents divorced and after that
she and her mother moved to Los Angeles, and even
though she was around archaeology in the beginning, it kind
of went away for a second. It would become a
main part of her life later again, of course, but
she spent a lot of her childhood acting in Hollywood.

(18:50):
She was also in the Pocahontas show with the Ringling
brother circus, but that was her childhood. It was really
centered around Hollywood and acting. In nineteen twenty four, she
married a man named jose Palin. I've also seen him
called Joseph, but he was an extra in Hollywood, and
he was a member of the Kushan nation, and the

(19:11):
two of them had a daughter in nineteen twenty five.
Their daughter was named Wilma May Billy Pallin and jose
was abusive, so this is a big and awful part
of her story. She tried to divorce him in nineteen
twenty nine, and he kidnapped her and took her and
her mother and their daughter to Mexico. There was somebody,

(19:35):
fortunately in their lives.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
Who was there to.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Be able to help them out in that acute moment
of horror and distress. And he was an archaeologist named
Mark Raymond Harrington, also called Mr. So I'll call him
that throughout the rest of this episode because I've seen
that other people referred to him as Mr. He has
articles written. He calls himself Mr. In there, so, although

(20:00):
I know that can get a lot of a little
confusing for listeners that want to be respectful of what
he actually chose to be called. At the time, he
was Bertha's uncle by marriage, so her aunt's husband that
was married into the family, and he was also a
friend of her father. So he rescued them and he

(20:22):
brought them back to the States. So at the time,
Bertha's mom went back to Hollywood, but Bertha and her
daughter stayed in Nevada, and Bertha worked on MR's archaeological expedition,
like she that's what she did. She got back to Nevada,
it was at this site called Mesa House, which is like, ugh,
it's just life becomes complicated like this sometimes. I'm just

(20:44):
thinking about the situation that she was in, which was
so terrible and so unfortunate, but it was amazing that
she had people, she had access to people like this
in her life. I wonder how she felt about that,
Like this terrible thing had just happened to her, but
then she had somewhere to redirect her energy. That felt familiar,

(21:04):
probably because it was something that her father did, something
that she saw around her all the time, and it
was work that she could do. So Mr brought her
on to this expedition and she cooked in exchange for
room and board. She would spend half of the day
cooking and the rest of the day doing archaeological film work.
So this kind of half and half doing the film

(21:26):
work later will come up later again in her story,
which is pretty cool, but we'll get to that in
a second. So Mr was an archaeologist for Southwest Museum
and Los Angeles, And what I'm saying is he was
a big deal. You know, he had access. He was
starting all these expeditions. Her dad was also a big deal,

(21:47):
so he had some sway. He had some power, the
ability to put her in places. But I like, from
what I can tell from reading about her story, he
seemed like he really cared about her success. Soon she
became expedition secretary, and she had a romance with a
man named Julian Hayden, and he also worked on the excavations.

(22:10):
He was at Mesa House too. I believe there's a
good romance in the story is you know, we love
that as part of a story, you know, it help
us build it out. And there was conflict in this romance.
Unfortunately for Bertha. So Julian's dad didn't like that she
was Native American. Some of her letters to Julian do survive,

(22:31):
and in those letters she talks about having to provide
for her mother and for her daughter while studying for
school and working. And so Mmar had teased her not
for eating, he called he gave her a nickname like
I can't remember what it was right now at the
top of my head. But that was related to the
fact that she didn't eat that much. And she mentioned

(22:54):
in a letter to Julian this romantic interest that she had.
She said, quote, my health is all broken into pieces,
and I am far from strong because many times I
went without meals so that mother and Billy, her daughter
could have plenty. They didn't realize why I didn't eat
any breakfast or dinner. Mother thought I wasn't hungry, but
I knew we hardly had enough to carry on. So

(23:17):
from that quote, it's clear that she seemed pretty self sacrificing,
obviously hardworking, and she cared about her family a lot,
so she was willing to not eat in order to
be able to make sure that she would feed her family,
and she was working super hard. And after that letter,
Julian sent her most of his paycheck, even though he
was also scraping by some Just like, look, the layers

(23:40):
are there for the romance, like you know, and the
story is probably not gonna work out, and you're gonna
be upset about it. But like, clearly there was some
romance that was there, but there was also some conflict
with Julian's dad. But in nineteen thirty, so we'll put
that romance on pause for a second. And then nineteen

(24:00):
thirty Mr organized an expedition in the desert near Las Vegas,
and that was the Gypsum Cave expedition.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
So this is a big.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Important expedition in Bertha's story. In an article in a
nineteen forty edition of this magazine called The Desert Magazine,
Mr said, I have been attracted to this cavern by
vague rumors that it might hold something of archaeological interest.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
He said his interest was peaked.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Even more when he found quote portions of the floor
of the dark inner chamber covered with a thick layer
of hard dried dung. Okay, So I'm thinking back to
Annie's question in the beginning of like, did you have
interest in this? And now I feel like, my Nerd
there are there are layers to my Nerd domb okay

(24:50):
that are being uncovered slowly that I'm remembering things, and
I'm like, oh my god, i gotta get back to
my Nancy Drew game that I'm currently in the middle
of that was about her in ancient Egypt. So yes, okay,
maybe I was more into archaeological things that I'm letting on,
but I'm just thinking about Mr and being like, there's

(25:11):
this place in this dark inner chamber. Okay, there's a
lot more to explore here. So he sent a sample
of the dung that he found to a paleontologist connections
at the American Museum of Natural History whose name was

(25:31):
doctor Barnum Brown, and Brown confirmed m Mar's deduction that
the cave was a den for ground sloths. So that's
what he was thinking. It was like, oh my gosh,
it must have been ground sloths, and he was correct.
Then they started finding other things. They were finding these
thousands of year old dart shafts, and Mr noted that

(25:53):
this initial expedition crew that they have was almost completely
made up of Native Americans. So I know your listeners,
you know your audience. I feel like they probably know
what the deal is by now. But the most of
this industry was white men. At the time. It was
already difficult for women in the field, so it was
fewer women in the field. For the women in the field,
it was difficult for them. There were issues of class,

(26:14):
there were issues of gender, and even beyond that, it
was often seen or thought of that women shouldn't be
doing the field work, like they shouldn't be out in
the field doing the digging and things like this. And
so it was a man who thought that, but it
was the women. Some of the women themselves were like,
I shouldn't be out there doing the field work. So
there are a lot of things that are unusual that

(26:36):
are happening here. There are it's this big crew of
Native Americans, like that's already alone, you know, different, and
then you have these women who are on the crew
as well, and then we won't get too much into
the crew here. But also it was kind of a

(26:57):
ragtag team in some ways, where some of the people
were on payroll, which Emar would say, and some of
them weren't. And then later people were brought on and
all these things. So interesting crew for sure, But the
expedition started in January and they had to set up
in this heavy snow and they began finding sloth bones.

(27:18):
They found more bones, and so Bertha she was expedition secretary,
so that meant that she was responsible for dictation, typing, cleaning, repair,
and cataloging of items. So some of the more administrative work,
that was the work that she was not doing out
in the field per se. But sometimes she would work
in the cave after her administrative duties were done, squeezing

(27:42):
into some of those really tricky spots that were there
that were hard to get to. And one day, I
just want to pause and also say that that makes
us feel like it's clear that Mr and the other
leadership that was here were like supportive of her learning
on the job. Just because her dad was an archaeologis
didn't mean that she necessarily had the experience of archaeology.

(28:04):
You know, she was learning as she was going along
as well. She was gaining experience as she went along.
But yeah, so one day after she was done speaking
of that half day, got my duties done. Next half
of the day, Let's move on to what I want
to do. And what she wanted to do was put
on her headlight, down her mask and.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
Go to the cave. She did that.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
So she goes to this cave and she finds in
room three, this flat slab and what does she do.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Of course, she looks under it.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
She sticks her head all the way in, and then
when she looks through it, she sees it there's a crevice,
and then through that crevice she sees something that looks
like bones. She's not fully sure yet, but she's like,
I think these are bones. She goes in, she pulls
it out, realizes it's a skull, a skull like nothing
she's ever seen. And so she's like, I don't know

(28:55):
what it is, and Mar's like, I think I know
what it is. But they send it to a paleontelligen
to confirm what it is, and that paleontologist determines that
it's the skull of a ground sloth. For a scientific
name that I'm about to butcher. But y'all are going
to get what I'm talking about.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
The name is not throw theoryops, justsensis. It's a ground sloth. Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Bertha's fine was the most important of the expedition. Emmar
said this in quotes, not only in itself, but because
it brought us the support of other institutions. So this
is a big fine. The California Institute of Technology and
the Carnegie Institution comes onto the project.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
They're like, well, y'all are doing something over here.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Now that y'all done the hard work. Now that the
woman has done the hard work. Specifically, now I'm just kidding.
Everybody on the team did, but Bertha was responsible for
this discovery. Let's be clear. They were clear about it too.
So now that they've done the work, now we want
to get our.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Hands into this.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Y'all have started it, you know, let's become involved. And
so they came onto the project. Other people joined the
expedition team, including a resident paleontologist named James Thurston. Remember
that name. The team soon found more sloth bones, even
ones with tissue attached and claws and hair. So I
imagine they're getting more excited and more excited. They're finding

(30:15):
the bones of other extinct ice age creatures like species
of camel and then horses. They're finding the work of
basket makers and weapons and things like this. At the
time and back then, in this moment that they're in
right now, it's debated whether humans migrated into North America

(30:36):
by the bearing straight land bridge. So it's a big
topic of contention. Apparently they're like, don't say this. If
you find this out, don't say this. So there's a
lot of murmurings over what happened, But the science is
very influx. And then to be a person who is
kind of agitating that part of the knowledge at the.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
Time is kind of like tricky territory.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
But the fact that these sloth remains were found close
to ancient human artifacts was evidence that around ten thousand
or so years ago they lived in the same place
at the same time. That wasn't assumed, That wasn't what
people thought at the time.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
So that was the novel.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
That was novel for them to figure out and have
this evidence of it right there in front of them.
This was also the earliest record of humans living in
North America at the time when they found this, those
artifacts that they found, this was the.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
Earliest that they knew of being there.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
And they also found these painted patterns on dark shafts
and those were at the time thought to be the
oldest known examples of American decorative art. So since then,
older human artifacts have been found in North America, the
science has There's been more discovery since, but as we know,
as we find out things, the information is updated, and so.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
This was a big deal at the time.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
And if anybody listening once to go and look at
photos of Bertha at the site, you know, at the
camp and also in the cave at the site exactly
where she found this goal, y'all can go look at
those photos for Fortunately we have access to those, so
that's pretty cool. Bertha at the time, she was credited
for the discovery, and she did gain recognition as the

(32:20):
first as a Native American woman archaeologist. Okay, let's put
it that way. She was getting attention in newspapers. The
find was like touted as a historic and important one
at the time, So at the time people recognized how
big of a deal it was however, she is still
a Native American woman. We know how much of the exoticisation,

(32:43):
how much of the othering that happened at the time,
especially in these media sources, where I mean, come on,
it's a low hanging fruit, like, oh, how are they
going to position the fact that she was a Native
American woman. It's already rare for women to be out.
There's definitely rare for Native Americans, and it put the
to the oh my god, So how are they going
to hype that up? They're going to figure out a way.

(33:04):
So in one field report, for instance, by a man
named doctor James ab Sharer, he first, at first he
says Bertha was an experienced archaeologist. Okay, he recognizes that,
but then he says, quote, they also have Indian blood
in their veins of distinguished lineage, and perhaps this adds

(33:25):
zest to this pursuit of their calling. So when he
says they, he's referring to Bertha's aunt and m R's
wife Indica I think her name is pronounced, so she
was also at the site.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
But I'm just like, I have to include this quote, y'all,
because it's so many things going on.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
The fact that a lot of the times, how when
this othering happens, it's reduced to this very clinical, kind
of like a scientific racism element of it all to
say Indian blood. Okay, you couldn't have just said Indian.
You couldn't have just said it. It had to be
about the.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Indian blood and running through their veins.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
So now you're reducing them to their bodies, to their
bodies and their body parts at that point.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
And then you have to hype it up.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
You got this distinguished lineage thing, so you got this, well,
they have chiefs, and you know, they have these mystical
hierarchies that I don't really know about, but I know
that there are high people there. And also this gives
them a little bit more credit because in whatever their
system of recognition is, that they're hiring it, so that
means something.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
They're not the lowly ones. And then you have this.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Last little cherry on top of the zest in the
pursuit of their calling, which is just a great word.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
That's just a great word. So obviously you had that.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
I'm sure there was a lot of other examples of
that kind of othering in the media about her, but regardless,
she was getting a lot of attention in the newspapers.
She also has stuff going on in her own life
at the same time, so there's this big discovery happening,
but she's got her own romances that she's involved in.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
So back to Julian.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
By nineteen thirty one, Bertha and Julian decided to move on.
But as this is a great story still, it was
such a love story, such a romance that Julian later
told Mr That he wasn't Overberththa and that he said
this quote there never was and never will be another.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
Girl like her in this world.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
And so I'm waiting on the pulp fiction about their romance.
But yeah, so it was it was clear that he
still loved her. But Bertha did move on. There was
in a letter that she wrote to him, she said
something like, she said, but we must move on. You'll
find someone better for you. Also, her dad didn't like Indian.

(35:52):
She was too Indian for him. She was so quote
unquote Indian for him. He didn't like her Indian this
so she was like, you're that doesn't like me anyway,
And I'm just thinking of this as a person who knows.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
How that goes.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
You know, when you have to when you have to
deal with that, when you're the person who's in any
sort of relationship with their's experience in the levels of
oppression or ways in what you're oppressed, then you have
to worry about the other family members and how they
feel about you, And often the burden is going to
be on that person who is othered in whatever way
they're othered to subsume the depth of whatever hurt.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
Comes with that.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
It's like, wha, we love each other, so I'm going
to be the one that has to deal with your
dad being like I don't like Indians, you know. I
imagine she was like, yeah, she did say this specifically,
like you'll find someone who's a better fit for you.
And in my head, I'm thinking, I imagine that felt
really good for her.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
I'm sure there were probably.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Plenty of reasons, but if that was one as a
known way that things work, then that could have felt
like a big burden off of her back. But she
did move on and James Thurston comes back into the picture.
So in nineteen thirty one, Bertha and this paleontologist that
I mentioned earlier, James Thurston, they got married. Unfortunately, that

(37:13):
didn't last long because the next year James had a
heart attack and died, and that.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Was in the field.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
I believe he was like lifting up a rock or
something like that, had a heart attack and he died. Yeah,
very very tragic. And then not long after his death,
Bertha got sick. She went back to Los Angeles, and
even though she was often sick, at the same time,
the Great Depression was happening. So we're thinking about what
time it was. This was the early nineteen thirties. The

(37:40):
Great Depression was happening. A lot of institutions like this
would have been suffering because of it, and the museum
she was working at was, but Bertha kept working there
because she was that girl, you know, she was she
was integral to the situation. And they said as much
in writing. She was like important to the operations. What

(38:00):
she had did at these excavations was really important. So
they acknowledged what she had done in the past and
also were aware of how much of an asset she
could continue to be in the future. And I'm sure
they're just like, you know, like she was good at
her job. But after James died, the people on the
expedition that she was on, that big Gypsum Cave expedition.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
They didn't want to continue work.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
The soft Bones ended up going to Caltech where they
stayed uncataloged, unfortunately. But she continued work and she was
working as an assistant archaeologist and ethnologist at the museum.
She began visiting and researching the Maidu people. I believe
I'm producing that correctly Maidu. She published articles on their

(38:50):
culture and their history in the museum's journal master Key.
She would often also credit the women that she interviewed
as her collaborators. And she did get married again, So
in nineteen thirty six she married Espera Oscar de Courti
or Iron Eyes Cody, someone she had long known from

(39:12):
Hollywood since they were like teenagers. He's been described as arrogant,
has a big ego, also been described as being a flirt.
But their marriage was fine and apparently he supported Bertha's
work and she started getting more involved in Native rights activism.
So she was moving away from this archaeological work, doing

(39:34):
more of this asnological work and you know, going out
to visit people, becoming more active in this activism, and
she hosted and co organized the first meeting of the
California Indian Rights Association, which was held at the Southwest Museum. Unfortunately,
there was another tragedy in her life. In nineteen forty two,

(39:56):
her daughter Billy died from an accidental gunshot when hunt
with her grandmother, So that really affected her.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
Bertha left her.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Position at the museum, even though she kept working with
them as a consultant. So that is pretty much kind
of where her work on the archaeological side of things

(40:27):
has started to dwindle and she's starting to move back
into some of her Hollywood work. She worked with her
husband in a consulting business that advised projects on Native
American culture and wardrobe. Now this is something that I
was not expecting to be the case in this story,

(40:49):
but things like this like to surprise you, and he
her husband iron eized Cody was ironically passing as Native American.
He wasn't actually Native American, but he was accepted as
a Native American and he did get jobs for Native

(41:11):
Americans in Hollywood. I think his heritage was like was
it Irish or Italian? One of them somebody will know
from that name Sortilian Sicilian?

Speaker 4 (41:21):
Okay, Sicilian, so very very uh.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
That's a very interesting part of their story. They also
had a TV show about Native American history and folklore
today given deeper on this, like to make this a
little bit weird knowing the fact that he was doing
this passing thing, and she also started acting again. She
posed for painters in the nineteen fifties. They adopted two children,

(41:51):
and she died in nineteen seventy eight. Her grave marker
just said missus Ironeyes Cody. So also like even it
feels like even more salt to the wound knowing that
he was passing. However, it's not I will say, I
know it is kind of like absurd.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
A lot of things like this happened.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
But being familiar with reasons for passing and for black
people as well, it's like, oftentimes there's a lot of
nuance to it. People are they're trying to save themselves
in different ways. And there seemed to me, based on
work that people who know a lot more about Bertha
and her history and a lot more about the reasons

(42:31):
he would do it is like he was actually putting
people on in Hollywood. So this work that they were
doing together was really uplifting a lot of other Native
American people who wanted to work in Hollywood. It was
getting them jobs, and he was a great business person,
so he was able to contribute to the community in

(42:53):
that way, and he had a different kind of social
currency because he was passing. So I'm not sure I
know that people knew that he was so other Native
Americans in the community, I'm unsure how aware, like the
Hollywood execs and all the other people who were making
the hiring efforts were.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
Of it, which feels like kind of a play.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
It's like almost like in a way, they sent him
out as an agent, and he was willing to be
an agent for them, And in the meantime, he was
not just putting people on in Hollywood, but he was
like helping out people on a more interpersonal level, like
paying for funerals when people couldn't pay for them in
the Native American community and doing things like that.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
So it's the theme of the show layered.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
But also just very you know, fascinating to think about.
But anyway, like I said, her grave Marker just said,
missus ironized Cody references to her, and media often did this.
They diminished her accomplishments in favor of uplifting the men
that were around her. And it was clearly a lot
of men around her, and these men were people of stature,
so they were doing things like saying she was the

(43:58):
wife of Ironized Cody or the daughter of Arthur Parker
and all of that. Another funny part of this related
to Ironized Cody is that after she died, he published
an autobiography which was actually ghost written, where he said
that Bertha partied a lot and drank a lot, and
so this at first, when I read this, I was like,

(44:18):
I'm throwing the chair across the room. I'm flipping the table,
like you know, okay, like I let it go before,
But what's up with that? That feels just because it
feels so familiar. We've heard stories of like men partners
maligning their women partners behind their backs after they're dead,
after not together anymore, and so my first thought was like,

(44:40):
this could be nothing but malicious intent. But a lot
of what's made up in this autobiography, which by the way,
is called I haven't read it, but it's called Ironized
Cody my life as a Hollywood Indian, But a lot
of it is made up in there. There's some truth,
some untruth, but a lot of it about her was
made up seemingly it was a kind of meta commentary

(45:05):
about on the act of myth making and performance in Hollywood,
and so essentially this book functioned as part of his act.
And this is something that Margaret M. Bruce Shak said
about this situation, about this autobiography, and so I wanted
to wait to share her name until the end because

(45:26):
there's so much in this that I'm talking about that
has been uncovered by Margaret M. Bruces Shak, like she
has a book called Savage Kin, Indigenous Informants and American Anthropologist.
And if you like this story, you want to learn
more about Bertha, then you'll go you can go there.
I'll say that again in a second. Let's just finish

(45:48):
the first story, because we're almost there. So this book
was apparently part of that act. This Society for American
Archaeology ended up creating the Bertha Parker Cody Award for
Native American Women, which supported women in gender non conforming
people who were studying archaeology or museum studies.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
And they already.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
At that point had a scholarship in honor of birth
as a father who saving this for the end, was
the first male Native American archaeologist.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
So I ran in the family.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Okay, so yeah, it's particularly upsetting to see how her
accomplishments were diminished by this kind of lack of saying
her name specifically or the overshadowing of her work because
of all these prominent men who surrounded her. It was like,
you know, all of these tall figures, and she 's
this one, like crouched down in the middle.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
Because of the way other people have spoken.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
About her, written about her, her legacy, and we see
this a lot on these episodes of Female First, but
it just felt so it felt so particularly it felt
like a needle specifically here for me, just because even
at the time, people said this is the biggest archaeological

(47:05):
find in North America at the time, this is a
hugely this is a huge upheaval of information that might
completely upend how we thought about how humans migrated and
where they were at a specific point in time. They
knew it was huge, recognized it as such, and so
it just felt like just a lot of salt on

(47:26):
the wound to think about how her accomplishments were just
pushed to the wayside because of the men who were
around her, and that her name wasn't said specifically, they
didn't call her about her name. And also it feels
like the amount of easily accessible information about Bertha doesn't

(47:48):
match her stature because of how big this discovery was.
Of course, like I said, people like Margaret brushak I
have helped bring that to light. But it's just like
so many people, all of.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
The white women who I've done a lot of.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Work in archaeology and paleontology and anthropology, you can find
a million articles written by major publications on them, and
you just don't see that same level of volume about
her and that and not even feels it is a
slight to her legacy, and it just shows how much

(48:25):
more like work has to be done in order for
her to gain that same kind of limelight. Is just
such a huge discrepancy of what she's done as a
pioneering archaeologist, and like you know how much she's been
honored in the year since. But I'm so glad I
could talk about her today because in the beginning I
felt like, do I have enough to bring? And every

(48:47):
time I feel that way, first of all, oftentimes I'll
like find all these amazing, extra cool facts about the person.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
After I like do more digging.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
But then also I have to step back and remind myself,
and I feel like it's also good to offer this
sentiment to people who are in your audience, Like that's
a perfect reason to bring that person to the table, right,
that is a perfect reason to do that.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
So glad we got to talk about her today.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
And I'll say again the name of the book Savage
can Indigenous Informants and American anthropologist. The author is also
an Indigenous anthropologist. Her name is Margaret M.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
Bruce Shack.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Go to that book and read it because I touched
on the surface of birth the story today. There's so
much more that's cool about her story, but also her parents'
story is in that book too, also.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Very very cool. And m R.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Harrington, who was a white guy by the way, I
don't know if I said that, but he was a
white guy who was advocating for Native Americans in this
way like bring them all here. Like he seemed to
be a person who was very impassionate about the work
but also impassionate about making sure that Indigenous people. I
had to say, in the work that they were doing
of digging up you know, these artifacts that were on

(50:05):
their land, and a lot of these were artifacts from
different Native American nations to that that they were finding
when they were at these sites.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
So go look it up. Really interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yes, yes, listeners, go look it up. I want to
look it up. This first of all, Eves, You're an
excellent storyteller. I was so riveted. There's a lot of
twists and turns and romance in this one. I wasn't
expecting the like surprise additional first at the end.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
It's great. It's great, And as always, appreciate all the
nuance you provide and the context you provide. And I
feel like we say this all the time, but really, HBO,
what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Yes, yes, I was going to say, this is a
mini series waiting to happen. Even with her later in life,
ironized Cody. Yeah, like because as I was like, when
I was looking her up, his picture popped up and
I was like, wait, what is this actor and not
realizing that they had gotten married, and then realizing this

(51:15):
is the dude that kind of represented like it was
the poster person for indigenous peoples for a while, and
realizing he didn't get out until late nineties. Yeah, in
real life, for not being indigenous one also that he
changed his name to a character name in order to
sound indigenous.

Speaker 6 (51:34):
I was like, wow, and she was like, you.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Know what this helps my people, We'll do this like
probably giving yeah, well we'll say that all that, but
also yeah, the fact that she also had that love
triangle for a little bit.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
She had them wrapped around her fingers.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
I mean, come on, yeah, no, it's right. I was
thinking the same thing. I think this one, particularly though,
just like really would be a super cool I think
limited series would be good for it because I think
it's so character based, Like it's a lot of interesting
characters to explore that a limited series would definitely do
it justice. But it's also like iron nice Cody. He

(52:14):
feels like a very nineteen sixties performance art character. And
Margaret Bruce Shach mentions performance art and that once she
said those words, I was like, I can totally totally
see that, Like he leaned into the role and that
benefited everybody. It benefitted him because he made more money,
but that also meant it benefited the community, and so

(52:36):
it's kind of like it kind of started to feel
like while at first I was all incensed, it started
to feel like he was taking one for the team
and at the same time it was selfish, but also
like I am kind of fascinated with these kind of
performance art people who really live that weirdo world, you

(52:58):
know what I mean, Like they live in it, so
these things.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
He wore these things in real life in order to
really like in his everyday life.

Speaker 6 (53:06):
I had to.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
I have to imagine he was getting most of his
information from her, like He's like, Okay, I'm going to
do this. Is this what your you know, family would
have whatever whatnot. But it did, it did help her
in him, except for the fact that it kind of
somehow outshadowed her amazing works, which by the way, the
scenes in my mind of like her going to this,
like the narrowest spots and everything, that's a that's action

(53:27):
right there.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
I mean the absolutely action.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
You got tension by environment, tension by the story, the content.
And also I'm just thinking so much it is just
so cinematic. I mean, her story in itself is very interesting.
All the people that are in her orbit have their
own stories that are so in depth. But also I'm
just thinking about that Hollywood, that old Hollywood layer of

(53:53):
it all, and how much Native Americans had to go through,
how they were presented, how they were othered, How you've
got this other ring of the black people happening in
Old Hollywood, You've got this orientalizing happening in Hollywood. And
then you have this element of where they're doing the
whole Indian stick in Hollywood and still do.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
It in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
We don't call help the properties right now they have
that element of it. And then I just think about
how you think about Indiana Jones and all of the
ways in which excavation has been portrayed in Hollywood, Old
Hollywood up into New Hollywood, and just the opportunities there
could be for like doing a set of a dig,

(54:36):
but also her going to a dig within the story
would be super cool.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
So there's just there's Yeah, I think there's so much there.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Yes, Yes, it feels like a three arc structures already there.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
It is. Wow.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Somebody get on this please, yes. But in the meantime,
thank you as all always Eves. This was wonderful. I'm
so happy to know about this and we always love
to have you.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Where can the good listeners find you?

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Y'all can go to my website which is Eve's Jeffcote
dot com. That's y v E s j E F
F c A T dot com. Y'all can also just
go to Instagram I'm at not Apologizing and you can
go to my link and my bio there get to
all of the things, or just hit me up if
you want to make any remarks about today's episode or

(55:32):
any other episodes we've done here on stuff mom never
told You a female first about women in their accomplishments
in history.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yes, and go do that if you haven't already listeners.
If you would like to contact us, you can. Our
email is Hello at stuff Wenever Told You dot com,
Rasamzuskai at mostaff podcast on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
We Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have
some merchandise at compureau, and we have a book you
can get wherever you get your books. Thanks. It's always
to our Superducerima and your executive prusin maya, thank you

(56:02):
and thanks to you for listening self nerd told your
production by heart Radio. For more podcasts on my heart Radio,
you can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast
or where you listen to your favorite shows.