January 16, 2026 • 33 mins
Brazilian composer, conductor, teacher and performer Chiquinha Gonzaga crafted many works and left a legacy. Yves delves into her history and accomplishments.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
I've never told your production. iHeart radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And it's time for another edition of Female First, the
very first of twenty twenty six, which means we are
once again joined by the admirable, the amazing Eeves.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome Eves.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hello, thank you for the welcome, per usual.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you for coming on per usual. You know we
always have to check Eves. What have you been up to?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
How has the new year been for you?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
You know, the new year has been very calm. I
have been easing my way into the new year. I
really don't have much to report. I have been quite
a homebody lately, actually, which is pretty refreshing. I've been
practicing yoga in the morning's meditating, going for walks, and
going grocery shopping, and it's lovely.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
I like grocery shopping. Is at it to the end of.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
That, well, see, I don't actually like grocery shopping, but
I mean it's just a standard but it's it's just
a standard part of the day though. It's like it's
just road. It is routine, you know, And I grocery
shop a lot more here than I would in the
United States because I'm walking to the grocery store and
(01:27):
so I only get a small amount, and the fridge
isn't huge. I mean, it's it's just me anyway, So
but you know, I'm just I'm chilling. I don't really
have much report enjoying enjoying the weather. It's nice and
warm here and sunny, so jealous.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, I was complaining about how, at least for Atlanta
is quite cold today.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Yes, like it's twenty six degrees and no snow. That's
what I don't I'm very sad about it. If it's going
to be dark and cold, at least give me a
little bit of snow. Yeah, none to be seen yet.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, yeah, fingers crossed. And we're like some of the
only people who are excited for snow.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
Such an anomally though, that's why.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, only a couple of snows that all the time?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
No, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
There needs to be a nice balance, and I don't
have to go anywhere during it.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Yeah. Let me be at home, let me have food,
and let me have my electric blanket.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yes, that sounds.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
And a fireplace, don't forget if there's a fireplace evolved. Yeah,
that really makes my nice.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, a lot of jealousy already happening in this episode.
That does sound like a wonderful.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Chill new year.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Uh, I wish I could. Samantha and I've been talking
about I just don't feel like the new year has happens.
I'm also being chill about it, but not in a
nearly as healthy way as you are. I'm mostly like
trying to convince myself to go do something. He said,
it doesn't feel like a new year, not to me.
(03:04):
I was actually shocked today that just the way our
publishing calendar works, I was like, oh my gosh, it's
already time for that episode. Oh no, but yeah, it's
it feels kind of like a danger. It feels like
a dream or something.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
You know what.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
You're right about that, because before we got on this call,
I was thinking, I feel like I just talked to y'all,
and it took me a second to realize that this
was the first episode of the year. I was thinking
that we had already like we had already done an
episode this year. I was like, wait, no, this is January. Yeah,
so I kind of I'm with you there, It doesn't
(03:47):
to me. It was just I mean, this year's it's
just felt like a continuation of whatever was happening at
the end of last year, which is I guess true.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's true. It is.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So. I know we've talked about this before about musical
abilities and talents and instruments abilities and talents. Was there
any songwriting and did any of you try to do
any of that when you were younger?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Oh, have we talked about this before? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I know we've talked about instruments, but I don't know
if we talked about songwriting. I will embarrass myself again
if we did talk about it before and say that,
yes I did. I was one of those kids that
song wrote. And I actually have been thinking about lately
how much fun that was, because in the process of
(04:42):
working on the book that I'm working on, I have
been drawing inspiration from songwriting a lot. It's been really
helpful to me.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And I.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Was thinking about how I used to songwrite, but I
would write raps y'all.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
There was a point in my.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Life where I was like, I you know, I don't
know how serious I was about being a rapper, but
I really enjoyed rapping and writing raps and it was
just fun to me. It was like it was always
pretty lighthearted and it was me and a friend of mine.
We had like our little duo. We would get together
and we would write raps. And I still I still
(05:20):
remember some of them. Don't ask me to rap it though,
don't do that. I'm not going to do it. But
I still remember them, and I still have the binder.
I still have the binder from like that has the wraps,
and it's somewhere in the garage, which I'm actually about
to clean out soon.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
So maybe I will read some of them one day.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Maybe I'll divulge them on the Instagram story so it
can go away in twenty four hours.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
Can we get a heads up so we don't miss
it because we're not often so we need to need
to know that it's coming.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I'll text you. I'd be like, all right, it's coming today,
don't live it. Debut alarms, I'm never going to see
this again.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I was one of those kids that loved to sing
and really thought that I had a career in singing.
By the way, I don't, but I sat I remember
my Dad's one of my dad's favorite memories, Like he
loves to share is. We would go sometimes with my
brothers fishing, which, by the way, they were really annoyed
by because I would sit on the bank with my
dad making up songs half Korean and half English, which
(06:25):
is hilarious because I can't remember the Korean. But my
dad was really into it. He said that he loved it.
There is some recordings of me singing yeah, I think they.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
All burned, thank goodness all.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
But yeah, I do remember like I did do that.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Growing up.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
I really thought, like my group, my trio friends, we
were gonna be Wilson Phillips. I've talked about that many
a times, thinking that we got this. I did like
love singing enough, but then I try to translate my
poetry into song. That did not work out well. That
did not work out well, I will say that. But yeah,
(07:03):
I really had a moment of like I can do this.
When I was in the middle school, I played trombone
and being able to read music, I was like, I'm
going to use this. I did not.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Spoiler alert still time, I can't remember anything.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Annie, did you do this?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I did very briefly. I think longtime listeners of the
show No. I went through a huge emo phase and
I went through a huge Green Day phase, and they
used to have this thing where during the song long View,
they would pull up an audience member and have you
play on the guitar, and then they would give you
(07:44):
the guitar.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And it was my dream that they would choose.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Me, and then obviously they'd be like, she has so
much talent, we must So through this, I learned how
to play the guitar and very briefly joined a band
called Left Turn That's Right, and I did. I wrote
some songs for that, and one of them I still remember,
and it's kind of funny looking back, but it was
called I Don't Believe in Love, and I still remember
(08:08):
like it was so emo. It was like the most
emo lyrics. But I thought the guitar part I wrote
was pretty good. I think it was pretty good. But
then I got stage fright after one show and that
was the end of that, just one show.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Well, at least you knew early you didn't continue, you know,
forcing yourself to do a thing that made you.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Did enjoy like the writing part, I think, but the
I never felt very confident in the performing part. I
couldn't even like I learned tabs so I didn't even know.
If you'd like asked me to play a d I'd
be like.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
What numbers are that? Five and three?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I feel very confident in it, and yet I still
have the guitar. My mom was like, do you want
to give it away? And I was like, maybe one
day I'll get back into it.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Moll.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, you know, you never know, You never know.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So that does bring us to who we're talking about today.
I'm very excited to hear more about the story. So
who did you bring for us Eves?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Today?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
We are talking about shi Quinya Gonzaga. So she was
the first female composer in Brazil, the first female conductor
in Brazil, and the first female pianist to perform in
public in Brazil. And her story is she's really pioneering
in music in Brazil. So I'm excited to talk about
(09:46):
her today. Yes, and she did a lot, She did
quite a bit. So shall we get into her story.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
She was born Francisca Edgewidges Nevis Gonzaga in Rio de
Janniro on October seventeenth, eighteen forty seven. So her name
was Francisca, but she went by Shakinya. So I'm just
gonna call her Shakinya for the rest of the episode,
even though I don't think she was going by that
quite yet in the beginning of her life, but for
the sake of consistency, that's what we'll go by. So
(10:18):
she was the third of nine children, and at the time,
most of the people who lived in Rio were enslaved.
Her mother was Josa Maria Neves Jalima and her father
was Jose Basileo Gonzaga, So her mother was of mixed
European and indigenous ancestry. She was the daughter of a
(10:41):
woman who was mixed race and enslaved, and her father
was a white military official and he was wealthy. So
you can already see how many different influences she's going
to have in her life from a social perspective. And
I don't really know much about what they taught talked
about in the home and how she felt about her
(11:04):
upbringing and that mix of environments and backgrounds, but it
is clear that when hi Qingya's mother had her, she
was trying to kind of hide her because it wasn't
it wasn't really it was looked down upon. You were
(11:24):
mixing race this way, you were mixing class this way.
That was taboo. But Shakinga's father did accept her and
took care of her. Her father, though he did try
to integrate her into upper class society. There was a
priest that taught her reading, writing, math, languages, and religion.
(11:49):
And there was a maestra named Elias Alvarez Lobo who
taught her music. So she didn't have a super extensive
throughout the course of her life have a super extensive
education specifically in music, but she did learn about music
early in her life and a little bit more later
(12:09):
to refine her techniques through study. But in Rio in
the mid eighteen hundreds, the piano had become this status symbol.
It was super ubiquitous. There were people who were in
middle class homes and who were in upper class homes
who had the piano, and people who didn't have the
(12:31):
piano might have aspired to have a piano, but it
was like it was an artifact in everyday life for
many of people, obviously not everybody. There was a lot
of mix of class and what people had access to
in the city, but music was a part of people's
lives and the piano was a big part of that music.
(12:53):
And Chiquinya's uncle and also he was her godfather. He
was a flutist, and she performed her first composition, Shepherd's Song,
when her uncle visited during Christmas in eighteen fifty eight,
and it was you know, talked about how the family
considered her a rebellious child. Not surprising as you'll go
(13:16):
forward to see, that's kind of a theme of the
rest of her life that she was hard to hold
on to, Like she seemed like she was pretty fiery,
but her dad arranged her marriage with going along with
people thinking she was this fiery character. You know, she
was considered rebellious. It seemed like it was a situation
(13:37):
where they were like, we need to get her under
control a little bit. And of course it was a
known way of doing that to you put somebody in
a marriage, and this is going to soften them, this
is going to control them, this is going to get
them in line, essentially, and that was the case with Shaqinya.
Her dad arranged her marriage with Jacinta Jabirol Duamerale. At
(14:00):
the time she was sixteen and he was twenty four
and he was in the army, and that wasn't unusual
that kind of age cap and it was like, you know,
we got to get them out, we got to get
them married. But her dad did get her a piano
as a wedding present, and Chiquinya and Jacinto had their
first child, Joe al Gualberto, in eighteen sixty four, but
(14:25):
they had marital issues. They did go on to have
their second child, Maria, in eighteen sixty five, but their
marriage wasn't going super well, and Jacinto ended up being
deployed when the Paraguay and War began. So this seems
really petty, but Jacinto brought Shaquinya along with him to Paraguay.
(14:48):
He got his ship. He was like, I'm going on
the ship. You're coming with me because I can't trust
you back home with that piano and all that music
stuff you got going on, so you're coming with me
to Paraguay. He wanted to keep her away from the piano.
She left that behind, but she did get a guitar
that she learned how to play. Speaking of guitar as
(15:10):
any and maybe you need to be whisked away to
some South American country. Fourcedlen ship for a certain amount
of time and you'll learn how to play your guitar.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I'm her a kindle light. Yeah, it just might work.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
But so won the ship. She was playing the guitar
for people. She's playing it for enslaved people who are
on the ship. Jacinto was not happy with that either,
So I don't know what the lead up to this
was not fully clear on that, but he gave her
an ultimatum, it's either him or the music.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
You can't have both. It's either one or the other.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And at the time, women they played piano like saying,
you know, people have pianos in their houses if they
could afford it, but they didn't really do that in public,
and they definitely didn't become professional musicians.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
So it was.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Quite unusual, quite taboo for her to be doing this
in this way. And this is before she even got
fully into her professional career. So they started their separation,
planned to be divorced, and Shakinya went back home with
her son and j just Intel filed this divorced lawsuit
against her for abandonment of the home and adultery, and
(16:37):
they had another child, Ela to you and her family. Still,
though they had these children together, her family still condemned
her behavior. Her mother ended up raising Maria her child,
and her aunt raised Alloreu. But her family didn't like
(16:59):
what she had going on and they didn't support her.
It was a lot, you know, we got this divorce
going on, She's trying to play piano. We already thought
of her as this kind of rebellious kid. That's a lot.
Her family wasn't really supportive of her in that way.
They did help raise her children, though, so her mother
raised Maria and her aunt raised Ilariu, but her family
(17:22):
was pushing her away. She didn't have them to turn to.
She ended up turning to musicians, and she became friends
with this flutist named Joaquim Antonia da Silva Colado, and
she began playing piano with Colado's music ensemble. It was
a chiro ensemble, and chiro is a largely instrumental genre
(17:43):
of Brazilian music that brought influences, like so many things
did in Brazil, from African and European musical styles, and
chirol ensembles usually have like one solo instrument like a
flute or clarinet, a guitar in the cavaquino, which is
a small four string guitar, and so Shakinya became the
(18:06):
first female performer to play publicly in Brazil. Her son
also joined the ensemble when he was twelve to play clarinet,
and at the same time Shakinya was earning money traveling
and teaching. She was teaching piano. She was also teaching voice, geography, history,
(18:26):
Portuguese and French. And she ended up finding love again
and got into a relationship with engineer Joel Thought she said,
Jukar Havalu Junior. And they moved to the state of
Mina Jerais and when he got a job on the
he had got a job on the railroad and that's
why they went there, and not long after that, once
(18:48):
that job was over, they went back to Rio, but
society was still looking down on their relationship. They did
have a child though, and her name was Elisa, but
their relationships soon ended as well. Around eighteen seventy five
or eighteen seventy six, Shakinya left with her son when
(19:12):
it seems like there was some sort of cheating situation perhaps,
but whatever way, whatever happened, she left her daughter, Elisa
behind with her father and soon the divorce went through.
She was condemned to perpetual separation from her husband just
(19:33):
into and the divorce was official, so she went on
with her life. She played music at pastry shops cabarets,
and she had a big song. In eighteen seventy seven,
she composed this polka song called Atrienta, which means attractive,
(19:54):
and she created it during a jam session, and in
eighteen seventy seven, fifteen editions of that composition were published.
And still though she was like at this she was
perceived as kind of this wild child and audacious with
all of her provocative song titles and all of these
(20:15):
artsy crowds and boisterous environments that she hung out in,
and also was described she had this singular manner of
dress that was kind of against the grain at the time.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
So over the years.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
After eighteen seventy seven, and she was composing more music,
she started to become more known for her work as
a conductor in review theater, and she ended up debuting
as the first female theatrical composer in Brazil on January seventeenth,
eighteen eighty five, with the operetta A corchi najosa, and
(20:54):
that was by Palyyari Hiberiro And in eighteen ninety five,
she wrote gaoush corsia ja ka, which means cowboy cut
the jackfruit, and that song was featured in musical reviews,
but it really ended up getting a lot more attention
later in nineteen fourteen when Hikina and her friend nair
Je Tefe performed it on piano and guitar at this
(21:18):
like upity function that they were at, So it seemed
to have gainsteam after that. I guess unusual or more
out of context environment for performing the song. So as
musical theater was becoming more popular, she wrote songs and
lyrics for musical plays, and between eighteen ninety seven and
(21:42):
eighteen ninety nine she composed the first written carnival march
of abrey Alis, which means make way. So you know,
imagine this within its context where crowds of people were
assembling in a parade, they were creating this rhythm and
then they were asking people to make way so they
(22:04):
could get through. And this is the idea where this
that this song came out of. Her song was based
on this action of making way during the carnival, and
her song kicked off this tradition of carnival marches. So
they have Shaquinya Gonzaga to thank for that. That's really,
(22:26):
you know, influential in all the song around Carnival that
came after. So around eighteen ninety nine, Chaquinya met a
Portuguese musician named Joe al By Cista Fernandez Laji, Yes,
another Joao, same as her ex and son. She met
(22:48):
him in this male only club for music enthusiasts that
she was an honorary member of. Not so sure how
she got into that either. But the big difference from
this in previous relationships, even though his name was also Joel,
was that he was a lot younger than she was,
thirty six years younger. He was sixteen and she was
(23:12):
fifty two. Yeah, yeah, huge difference. And previously the age
gaps weren't that similar. So I think the relationship she
was in previously to this was about I think he
was three years her senior, and as we talked about
in the beginning, it was about like a sixteen to
twenty four, which is a little bit more normal for
the time, but this was a really big gap. But
(23:36):
they got into a relationship. And what makes this even
what makes this even more odd and questionable, is that
she said that he was her son, because apparently she
didn't want to deal with the backlash of being in
such an age gap relationship in public. But now they
(23:58):
did stay together until she died, which was quite it
was many years later, so that is a really questionable
part of her history for sure. So Shaquina sold sheet
(24:19):
music door to door to raise funds for the Liberation Confederation,
and she used that money from the sale of her
music to help enslave people a lot of the time.
So in this case, she bought the freedom of an
enslaved musician. And she also spent time in Portugal, and
(24:42):
there was a couple of times documented at least that
she was over there in a time that was a
longer period of a few years that she seemed to
be over in Europe. But in nineteen two, when she
was in Europe, she found publications of her music under
other people's names. So when she got back to Brazil,
she was like, what's up with that. She got back
(25:04):
to Brazil, she did some further digging. She found out
that she had a student who had a husband, and
that husband she was also friends with him, and he
had published her music without her approval. So it ended
up that years later she ended up co founding this
(25:25):
association for theatrical authors. It was called the Brazilian Society
of Theatrical Authors or SBAT, and that you know, she
was already invested in this kind of copyright cause, but
it was later on that she co founded along with
other people. I think I believe it was nineteen seventeen
(25:47):
that organization that was an extension of the work and
the advocacy that she was already doing. But in nineteen
thirty three, when she was eighty five years old, she
posed her last piece. It was for the Operetta Maria,
and she composed over the course of her life many
(26:07):
many pieces across many genres, including the shuro which we
talked about earlier, the march, tango, polka, watts, avaneras, and
other genres as well. And by the end of her life,
her family did, along with many other people, recognize her
(26:28):
as this great musician, and her children seem to be
supportive of her, even though she wasn't as active of
a parent in their lives. But she died on February
twenty eighth, nineteen thirty five, in Rio, when she was
eighty seven years old, and in two thousand and five,
(26:48):
through an agreement with the SBAT that Brazilian Society of
Theatrical Authors, the Morea Salis Institute took over her archive,
and in that archive there are more than a musical scores, photos, letters,
newspaper clips and lots of other material that is available
(27:09):
about her life. And there were two pianists who also
established the Shaquina Gonzaga digital archive. Their names were alis
Chandre Diaz and Andre Braga.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
So a lot all.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Of the sheet music from her collection that's online. You
can find it. And if you want to listen to
her music, the music that she composed, you can also
go on YouTube and listen to some of that music.
So it's available for everyone to hear and also in
pop music of today from Brazil in carnival marches. Is
(27:48):
her legacy, her influence.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Like I said, she really did so much and clearly
has this lasting impact. I'm glad you can still hear
the music and read the music. That's something I've been
curious about too, when we were talking about our music
writing abilities are not is that it is really cool
to read the sheet music. It feels like you're kind
(28:21):
of reading a different language. Yea and hearing it in
your head, and so I do recommend listeners go check
all that out. And it's really interesting her story of
just this rebellied rebelliousness that you pointed out Eves, where
she was like.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
No, I'm going to do I'm going to do this thing.
I can't believe her husband would be like it's me
or the music like music good? Why?
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Yeah? And I think there's definitely a lot lost. And
in the fact that I can't read Portuguese, there is
a biography of hers that is written in Portuguese. So
if you can read Portuguese, and if you're I mean
everyone you know it can benefit from understanding her history.
(29:08):
But if you know Portuguese, I'm sure that'll be at
a great boon to you in the discovery of her story.
But I'm happy that there is still an archive of
hers that can be dug through. And apparently her partner
at the end of her life was largely responsible for
(29:32):
the collection and the preservation and the distribution of her
work after she died and is the reason why a
lot of it is available to go through today. But
also those people who are working on the digital archive
are still are also integrol in us being able to
(29:53):
learn more about her.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yes, and it's always important to shout out those people
because a lot of the stuff we do we couldn't
do without them focusing on, Yeah, that stuff very specifically. Yes,
shout out to them always.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yes, thank you and thank you to the multi linguals.
I'm working on it, y'all. Just I'm working on it.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Language.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
I've been working on Spanish for forever, but now that
I'm here in South Africa, I would really like to
learn Elsa. I'm gonna work on I'm working on the clicks. Okay,
I got a lot to work on. But yeah, and
there are others on the list too. I do still
want to learn Mandarin, but that might that'll that'll be
down the line.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
Any could work together.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
You've got to help me out, Annie, Uh, I can
help you out, but you know.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's a difficult, difficult one. You can get the tones. Yeah.
They would always correct me, and I'm like, it sounds
the same, and I know they were right.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
They were correct, but to me, I was like, it's
the same.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
It was the writing that actually killed me though more
than anything. Oh yeah, yeah, I could do that. I
can't help you with that one. Right away, I tell you.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Yeah, I don't know if I would fully get there.
I think writing, I don't know. Maybe reading, Yeah, reading
I could do, but the writing there's a like order
you go.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And even though to me it was mind blowing, people
could always tell you didn't do this in the right order,
and I was like, oh okay, yeah, yes, yes, yes yes.
Well as always, thank you to you Ease for doing
(31:53):
this research and for being here. We always love catching
up with you and hearing these stories. Where can the
good listeners find you?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Y'all can find me if you go directly to my website,
which is Eves jeffcot dot com. That's spelled y V
E s j E F F C O A t
dot com. You can follow the threads from there and
get to all of the other things the other places
I'm at. But if you want to go directly to Instagram,
I'm at not apologizing. I'm also here on Sminty, on
(32:25):
many many other episodes of Female First talking about people
in history.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yes, so go check all of that out if you
haven't already, listeners, and if you would like to contact us,
you can you can email us at Hello at stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I'll never told you dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
You can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff
podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never
Told You First on YouTube. We have new merchandise dot
com Heuro and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks as always too, our supers, Christina,
our executive produce, My Andro, contributor Joey, Thank you and
thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You, Quection,
my Hurry You more podcasts from my Heart Radio. You
can check out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(33:02):
wherever you listen to your favorite chip
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
I've never told your production. iHeart radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And it's time for another edition of Female First, the
very first of twenty twenty six, which means we are
once again joined by the admirable, the amazing Eeves.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome Eves.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hello, thank you for the welcome, per usual.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you for coming on per usual. You know we
always have to check Eves. What have you been up to?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
How has the new year been for you?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
You know, the new year has been very calm. I
have been easing my way into the new year. I
really don't have much to report. I have been quite
a homebody lately, actually, which is pretty refreshing. I've been
practicing yoga in the morning's meditating, going for walks, and
going grocery shopping, and it's lovely.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
I like grocery shopping. Is at it to the end of.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
That, well, see, I don't actually like grocery shopping, but
I mean it's just a standard but it's it's just
a standard part of the day though. It's like it's
just road. It is routine, you know, And I grocery
shop a lot more here than I would in the
United States because I'm walking to the grocery store and
(01:27):
so I only get a small amount, and the fridge
isn't huge. I mean, it's it's just me anyway, So
but you know, I'm just I'm chilling. I don't really
have much report enjoying enjoying the weather. It's nice and
warm here and sunny, so jealous.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, I was complaining about how, at least for Atlanta
is quite cold today.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Yes, like it's twenty six degrees and no snow. That's
what I don't I'm very sad about it. If it's going
to be dark and cold, at least give me a
little bit of snow. Yeah, none to be seen yet.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, yeah, fingers crossed. And we're like some of the
only people who are excited for snow.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
Such an anomally though, that's why.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, only a couple of snows that all the time?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
No, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
There needs to be a nice balance, and I don't
have to go anywhere during it.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Yeah. Let me be at home, let me have food,
and let me have my electric blanket.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yes, that sounds.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
And a fireplace, don't forget if there's a fireplace evolved. Yeah,
that really makes my nice.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, a lot of jealousy already happening in this episode.
That does sound like a wonderful.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Chill new year.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Uh, I wish I could. Samantha and I've been talking
about I just don't feel like the new year has happens.
I'm also being chill about it, but not in a
nearly as healthy way as you are. I'm mostly like
trying to convince myself to go do something. He said,
it doesn't feel like a new year, not to me.
(03:04):
I was actually shocked today that just the way our
publishing calendar works, I was like, oh my gosh, it's
already time for that episode. Oh no, but yeah, it's
it feels kind of like a danger. It feels like
a dream or something.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
You know what.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
You're right about that, because before we got on this call,
I was thinking, I feel like I just talked to y'all,
and it took me a second to realize that this
was the first episode of the year. I was thinking
that we had already like we had already done an
episode this year. I was like, wait, no, this is January. Yeah,
so I kind of I'm with you there, It doesn't
(03:47):
to me. It was just I mean, this year's it's
just felt like a continuation of whatever was happening at
the end of last year, which is I guess true.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's true. It is.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So. I know we've talked about this before about musical
abilities and talents and instruments abilities and talents. Was there
any songwriting and did any of you try to do
any of that when you were younger?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Oh, have we talked about this before? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I know we've talked about instruments, but I don't know
if we talked about songwriting. I will embarrass myself again
if we did talk about it before and say that,
yes I did. I was one of those kids that
song wrote. And I actually have been thinking about lately
how much fun that was, because in the process of
(04:42):
working on the book that I'm working on, I have
been drawing inspiration from songwriting a lot. It's been really
helpful to me.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And I.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Was thinking about how I used to songwrite, but I
would write raps y'all.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
There was a point in my.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Life where I was like, I you know, I don't
know how serious I was about being a rapper, but
I really enjoyed rapping and writing raps and it was
just fun to me. It was like it was always
pretty lighthearted and it was me and a friend of mine.
We had like our little duo. We would get together
and we would write raps. And I still I still
(05:20):
remember some of them. Don't ask me to rap it though,
don't do that. I'm not going to do it. But
I still remember them, and I still have the binder.
I still have the binder from like that has the wraps,
and it's somewhere in the garage, which I'm actually about
to clean out soon.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
So maybe I will read some of them one day.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Maybe I'll divulge them on the Instagram story so it
can go away in twenty four hours.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
Can we get a heads up so we don't miss
it because we're not often so we need to need
to know that it's coming.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I'll text you. I'd be like, all right, it's coming today,
don't live it. Debut alarms, I'm never going to see
this again.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I was one of those kids that loved to sing
and really thought that I had a career in singing.
By the way, I don't, but I sat I remember
my Dad's one of my dad's favorite memories, Like he
loves to share is. We would go sometimes with my
brothers fishing, which, by the way, they were really annoyed
by because I would sit on the bank with my
dad making up songs half Korean and half English, which
(06:25):
is hilarious because I can't remember the Korean. But my
dad was really into it. He said that he loved it.
There is some recordings of me singing yeah, I think they.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
All burned, thank goodness all.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
But yeah, I do remember like I did do that.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Growing up.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
I really thought, like my group, my trio friends, we
were gonna be Wilson Phillips. I've talked about that many
a times, thinking that we got this. I did like
love singing enough, but then I try to translate my
poetry into song. That did not work out well. That
did not work out well, I will say that. But yeah,
(07:03):
I really had a moment of like I can do this.
When I was in the middle school, I played trombone
and being able to read music, I was like, I'm
going to use this. I did not.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Spoiler alert still time, I can't remember anything.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Annie, did you do this?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I did very briefly. I think longtime listeners of the
show No. I went through a huge emo phase and
I went through a huge Green Day phase, and they
used to have this thing where during the song long View,
they would pull up an audience member and have you
play on the guitar, and then they would give you
(07:44):
the guitar.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And it was my dream that they would choose.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Me, and then obviously they'd be like, she has so
much talent, we must So through this, I learned how
to play the guitar and very briefly joined a band
called Left Turn That's Right, and I did. I wrote
some songs for that, and one of them I still remember,
and it's kind of funny looking back, but it was
called I Don't Believe in Love, and I still remember
(08:08):
like it was so emo. It was like the most
emo lyrics. But I thought the guitar part I wrote
was pretty good. I think it was pretty good. But
then I got stage fright after one show and that
was the end of that, just one show.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Well, at least you knew early you didn't continue, you know,
forcing yourself to do a thing that made you.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Did enjoy like the writing part, I think, but the
I never felt very confident in the performing part. I
couldn't even like I learned tabs so I didn't even know.
If you'd like asked me to play a d I'd
be like.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
What numbers are that? Five and three?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I feel very confident in it, and yet I still
have the guitar. My mom was like, do you want
to give it away? And I was like, maybe one
day I'll get back into it.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Moll.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, you know, you never know, You never know.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So that does bring us to who we're talking about today.
I'm very excited to hear more about the story. So
who did you bring for us Eves?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Today?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
We are talking about shi Quinya Gonzaga. So she was
the first female composer in Brazil, the first female conductor
in Brazil, and the first female pianist to perform in
public in Brazil. And her story is she's really pioneering
in music in Brazil. So I'm excited to talk about
(09:46):
her today. Yes, and she did a lot, She did
quite a bit. So shall we get into her story.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
She was born Francisca Edgewidges Nevis Gonzaga in Rio de
Janniro on October seventeenth, eighteen forty seven. So her name
was Francisca, but she went by Shakinya. So I'm just
gonna call her Shakinya for the rest of the episode,
even though I don't think she was going by that
quite yet in the beginning of her life, but for
the sake of consistency, that's what we'll go by. So
(10:18):
she was the third of nine children, and at the time,
most of the people who lived in Rio were enslaved.
Her mother was Josa Maria Neves Jalima and her father
was Jose Basileo Gonzaga, So her mother was of mixed
European and indigenous ancestry. She was the daughter of a
(10:41):
woman who was mixed race and enslaved, and her father
was a white military official and he was wealthy. So
you can already see how many different influences she's going
to have in her life from a social perspective. And
I don't really know much about what they taught talked
about in the home and how she felt about her
(11:04):
upbringing and that mix of environments and backgrounds, but it
is clear that when hi Qingya's mother had her, she
was trying to kind of hide her because it wasn't
it wasn't really it was looked down upon. You were
(11:24):
mixing race this way, you were mixing class this way.
That was taboo. But Shakinga's father did accept her and
took care of her. Her father, though he did try
to integrate her into upper class society. There was a
priest that taught her reading, writing, math, languages, and religion.
(11:49):
And there was a maestra named Elias Alvarez Lobo who
taught her music. So she didn't have a super extensive
throughout the course of her life have a super extensive
education specifically in music, but she did learn about music
early in her life and a little bit more later
(12:09):
to refine her techniques through study. But in Rio in
the mid eighteen hundreds, the piano had become this status symbol.
It was super ubiquitous. There were people who were in
middle class homes and who were in upper class homes
who had the piano, and people who didn't have the
(12:31):
piano might have aspired to have a piano, but it
was like it was an artifact in everyday life for
many of people, obviously not everybody. There was a lot
of mix of class and what people had access to
in the city, but music was a part of people's
lives and the piano was a big part of that music.
(12:53):
And Chiquinya's uncle and also he was her godfather. He
was a flutist, and she performed her first composition, Shepherd's Song,
when her uncle visited during Christmas in eighteen fifty eight,
and it was you know, talked about how the family
considered her a rebellious child. Not surprising as you'll go
(13:16):
forward to see, that's kind of a theme of the
rest of her life that she was hard to hold
on to, Like she seemed like she was pretty fiery,
but her dad arranged her marriage with going along with
people thinking she was this fiery character. You know, she
was considered rebellious. It seemed like it was a situation
(13:37):
where they were like, we need to get her under
control a little bit. And of course it was a
known way of doing that to you put somebody in
a marriage, and this is going to soften them, this
is going to control them, this is going to get
them in line, essentially, and that was the case with Shaqinya.
Her dad arranged her marriage with Jacinta Jabirol Duamerale. At
(14:00):
the time she was sixteen and he was twenty four
and he was in the army, and that wasn't unusual
that kind of age cap and it was like, you know,
we got to get them out, we got to get
them married. But her dad did get her a piano
as a wedding present, and Chiquinya and Jacinto had their
first child, Joe al Gualberto, in eighteen sixty four, but
(14:25):
they had marital issues. They did go on to have
their second child, Maria, in eighteen sixty five, but their
marriage wasn't going super well, and Jacinto ended up being
deployed when the Paraguay and War began. So this seems
really petty, but Jacinto brought Shaquinya along with him to Paraguay.
(14:48):
He got his ship. He was like, I'm going on
the ship. You're coming with me because I can't trust
you back home with that piano and all that music
stuff you got going on, so you're coming with me
to Paraguay. He wanted to keep her away from the piano.
She left that behind, but she did get a guitar
that she learned how to play. Speaking of guitar as
(15:10):
any and maybe you need to be whisked away to
some South American country. Fourcedlen ship for a certain amount
of time and you'll learn how to play your guitar.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I'm her a kindle light. Yeah, it just might work.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
But so won the ship. She was playing the guitar
for people. She's playing it for enslaved people who are
on the ship. Jacinto was not happy with that either,
So I don't know what the lead up to this
was not fully clear on that, but he gave her
an ultimatum, it's either him or the music.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
You can't have both. It's either one or the other.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And at the time, women they played piano like saying,
you know, people have pianos in their houses if they
could afford it, but they didn't really do that in public,
and they definitely didn't become professional musicians.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
So it was.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Quite unusual, quite taboo for her to be doing this
in this way. And this is before she even got
fully into her professional career. So they started their separation,
planned to be divorced, and Shakinya went back home with
her son and j just Intel filed this divorced lawsuit
against her for abandonment of the home and adultery, and
(16:37):
they had another child, Ela to you and her family. Still,
though they had these children together, her family still condemned
her behavior. Her mother ended up raising Maria her child,
and her aunt raised Alloreu. But her family didn't like
(16:59):
what she had going on and they didn't support her.
It was a lot, you know, we got this divorce
going on, She's trying to play piano. We already thought
of her as this kind of rebellious kid. That's a lot.
Her family wasn't really supportive of her in that way.
They did help raise her children, though, so her mother
raised Maria and her aunt raised Ilariu, but her family
(17:22):
was pushing her away. She didn't have them to turn to.
She ended up turning to musicians, and she became friends
with this flutist named Joaquim Antonia da Silva Colado, and
she began playing piano with Colado's music ensemble. It was
a chiro ensemble, and chiro is a largely instrumental genre
(17:43):
of Brazilian music that brought influences, like so many things
did in Brazil, from African and European musical styles, and
chirol ensembles usually have like one solo instrument like a
flute or clarinet, a guitar in the cavaquino, which is
a small four string guitar, and so Shakinya became the
(18:06):
first female performer to play publicly in Brazil. Her son
also joined the ensemble when he was twelve to play clarinet,
and at the same time Shakinya was earning money traveling
and teaching. She was teaching piano. She was also teaching voice, geography, history,
(18:26):
Portuguese and French. And she ended up finding love again
and got into a relationship with engineer Joel Thought she said,
Jukar Havalu Junior. And they moved to the state of
Mina Jerais and when he got a job on the
he had got a job on the railroad and that's
why they went there, and not long after that, once
(18:48):
that job was over, they went back to Rio, but
society was still looking down on their relationship. They did
have a child though, and her name was Elisa, but
their relationships soon ended as well. Around eighteen seventy five
or eighteen seventy six, Shakinya left with her son when
(19:12):
it seems like there was some sort of cheating situation perhaps,
but whatever way, whatever happened, she left her daughter, Elisa
behind with her father and soon the divorce went through.
She was condemned to perpetual separation from her husband just
(19:33):
into and the divorce was official, so she went on
with her life. She played music at pastry shops cabarets,
and she had a big song. In eighteen seventy seven,
she composed this polka song called Atrienta, which means attractive,
(19:54):
and she created it during a jam session, and in
eighteen seventy seven, fifteen editions of that composition were published.
And still though she was like at this she was
perceived as kind of this wild child and audacious with
all of her provocative song titles and all of these
(20:15):
artsy crowds and boisterous environments that she hung out in,
and also was described she had this singular manner of
dress that was kind of against the grain at the time.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
So over the years.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
After eighteen seventy seven, and she was composing more music,
she started to become more known for her work as
a conductor in review theater, and she ended up debuting
as the first female theatrical composer in Brazil on January seventeenth,
eighteen eighty five, with the operetta A corchi najosa, and
(20:54):
that was by Palyyari Hiberiro And in eighteen ninety five,
she wrote gaoush corsia ja ka, which means cowboy cut
the jackfruit, and that song was featured in musical reviews,
but it really ended up getting a lot more attention
later in nineteen fourteen when Hikina and her friend nair
Je Tefe performed it on piano and guitar at this
(21:18):
like upity function that they were at, So it seemed
to have gainsteam after that. I guess unusual or more
out of context environment for performing the song. So as
musical theater was becoming more popular, she wrote songs and
lyrics for musical plays, and between eighteen ninety seven and
(21:42):
eighteen ninety nine she composed the first written carnival march
of abrey Alis, which means make way. So you know,
imagine this within its context where crowds of people were
assembling in a parade, they were creating this rhythm and
then they were asking people to make way so they
(22:04):
could get through. And this is the idea where this
that this song came out of. Her song was based
on this action of making way during the carnival, and
her song kicked off this tradition of carnival marches. So
they have Shaquinya Gonzaga to thank for that. That's really,
(22:26):
you know, influential in all the song around Carnival that
came after. So around eighteen ninety nine, Chaquinya met a
Portuguese musician named Joe al By Cista Fernandez Laji, Yes,
another Joao, same as her ex and son. She met
(22:48):
him in this male only club for music enthusiasts that
she was an honorary member of. Not so sure how
she got into that either. But the big difference from
this in previous relationships, even though his name was also Joel,
was that he was a lot younger than she was,
thirty six years younger. He was sixteen and she was
(23:12):
fifty two. Yeah, yeah, huge difference. And previously the age
gaps weren't that similar. So I think the relationship she
was in previously to this was about I think he
was three years her senior, and as we talked about
in the beginning, it was about like a sixteen to
twenty four, which is a little bit more normal for
the time, but this was a really big gap. But
(23:36):
they got into a relationship. And what makes this even
what makes this even more odd and questionable, is that
she said that he was her son, because apparently she
didn't want to deal with the backlash of being in
such an age gap relationship in public. But now they
(23:58):
did stay together until she died, which was quite it
was many years later, so that is a really questionable
part of her history for sure. So Shaquina sold sheet
(24:19):
music door to door to raise funds for the Liberation Confederation,
and she used that money from the sale of her
music to help enslave people a lot of the time.
So in this case, she bought the freedom of an
enslaved musician. And she also spent time in Portugal, and
(24:42):
there was a couple of times documented at least that
she was over there in a time that was a
longer period of a few years that she seemed to
be over in Europe. But in nineteen two, when she
was in Europe, she found publications of her music under
other people's names. So when she got back to Brazil,
she was like, what's up with that. She got back
(25:04):
to Brazil, she did some further digging. She found out
that she had a student who had a husband, and
that husband she was also friends with him, and he
had published her music without her approval. So it ended
up that years later she ended up co founding this
(25:25):
association for theatrical authors. It was called the Brazilian Society
of Theatrical Authors or SBAT, and that you know, she
was already invested in this kind of copyright cause, but
it was later on that she co founded along with
other people. I think I believe it was nineteen seventeen
(25:47):
that organization that was an extension of the work and
the advocacy that she was already doing. But in nineteen
thirty three, when she was eighty five years old, she
posed her last piece. It was for the Operetta Maria,
and she composed over the course of her life many
(26:07):
many pieces across many genres, including the shuro which we
talked about earlier, the march, tango, polka, watts, avaneras, and
other genres as well. And by the end of her life,
her family did, along with many other people, recognize her
(26:28):
as this great musician, and her children seem to be
supportive of her, even though she wasn't as active of
a parent in their lives. But she died on February
twenty eighth, nineteen thirty five, in Rio, when she was
eighty seven years old, and in two thousand and five,
(26:48):
through an agreement with the SBAT that Brazilian Society of
Theatrical Authors, the Morea Salis Institute took over her archive,
and in that archive there are more than a musical scores, photos, letters,
newspaper clips and lots of other material that is available
(27:09):
about her life. And there were two pianists who also
established the Shaquina Gonzaga digital archive. Their names were alis
Chandre Diaz and Andre Braga.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
So a lot all.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Of the sheet music from her collection that's online. You
can find it. And if you want to listen to
her music, the music that she composed, you can also
go on YouTube and listen to some of that music.
So it's available for everyone to hear and also in
pop music of today from Brazil in carnival marches. Is
(27:48):
her legacy, her influence.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Like I said, she really did so much and clearly
has this lasting impact. I'm glad you can still hear
the music and read the music. That's something I've been
curious about too, when we were talking about our music
writing abilities are not is that it is really cool
to read the sheet music. It feels like you're kind
(28:21):
of reading a different language. Yea and hearing it in
your head, and so I do recommend listeners go check
all that out. And it's really interesting her story of
just this rebellied rebelliousness that you pointed out Eves, where
she was like.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
No, I'm going to do I'm going to do this thing.
I can't believe her husband would be like it's me
or the music like music good? Why?
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Yeah? And I think there's definitely a lot lost. And
in the fact that I can't read Portuguese, there is
a biography of hers that is written in Portuguese. So
if you can read Portuguese, and if you're I mean
everyone you know it can benefit from understanding her history.
(29:08):
But if you know Portuguese, I'm sure that'll be at
a great boon to you in the discovery of her story.
But I'm happy that there is still an archive of
hers that can be dug through. And apparently her partner
at the end of her life was largely responsible for
(29:32):
the collection and the preservation and the distribution of her
work after she died and is the reason why a
lot of it is available to go through today. But
also those people who are working on the digital archive
are still are also integrol in us being able to
(29:53):
learn more about her.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yes, and it's always important to shout out those people
because a lot of the stuff we do we couldn't
do without them focusing on, Yeah, that stuff very specifically. Yes,
shout out to them always.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yes, thank you and thank you to the multi linguals.
I'm working on it, y'all. Just I'm working on it.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Language.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
I've been working on Spanish for forever, but now that
I'm here in South Africa, I would really like to
learn Elsa. I'm gonna work on I'm working on the clicks. Okay,
I got a lot to work on. But yeah, and
there are others on the list too. I do still
want to learn Mandarin, but that might that'll that'll be
down the line.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
Any could work together.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
You've got to help me out, Annie, Uh, I can
help you out, but you know.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's a difficult, difficult one. You can get the tones. Yeah.
They would always correct me, and I'm like, it sounds
the same, and I know they were right.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
They were correct, but to me, I was like, it's
the same.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
It was the writing that actually killed me though more
than anything. Oh yeah, yeah, I could do that. I
can't help you with that one. Right away, I tell you.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Yeah, I don't know if I would fully get there.
I think writing, I don't know. Maybe reading, Yeah, reading
I could do, but the writing there's a like order
you go.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And even though to me it was mind blowing, people
could always tell you didn't do this in the right order,
and I was like, oh okay, yeah, yes, yes, yes yes.
Well as always, thank you to you Ease for doing
(31:53):
this research and for being here. We always love catching
up with you and hearing these stories. Where can the
good listeners find you?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Y'all can find me if you go directly to my website,
which is Eves jeffcot dot com. That's spelled y V
E s j E F F C O A t
dot com. You can follow the threads from there and
get to all of the other things the other places
I'm at. But if you want to go directly to Instagram,
I'm at not apologizing. I'm also here on Sminty, on
(32:25):
many many other episodes of Female First talking about people
in history.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yes, so go check all of that out if you
haven't already, listeners, and if you would like to contact us,
you can you can email us at Hello at stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I'll never told you dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
You can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff
podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never
Told You First on YouTube. We have new merchandise dot
com Heuro and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks as always too, our supers, Christina,
our executive produce, My Andro, contributor Joey, Thank you and
thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You, Quection,
my Hurry You more podcasts from my Heart Radio. You
can check out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(33:02):
wherever you listen to your favorite chip
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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