February 28, 2025 • 35 mins
In 1969, the Harlem Cultural Festival was a joyous celebration of Black culture, music and Harlem, in a time of so much societal shift. Despite how powerful this festival was, for decades, it was erased. The 2021 documentary Summer of Soul (...or, When the Revolution Could Not Be Televised) brought this restored footage to public.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. One
Never Told You, Protection of Buy Heart Radio, and today
for feminist movie Friday, we're talking about the twenty twenty
one documentary Summer of Love or When the Revolution Could
(00:26):
Not Be Televised, directed by Amir Questlov Thompson, who is
a coworker.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
He's on our network network, so we know friends of
friends and friends.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
We're definitely like two degrees away from him.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We two are one.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well one, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, one, I think we're one. Like we're so close
to sitting next to him one day in a random work.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Activity, random work activity. Yeah. I think we actually did
go to an event at a conference where he was
the DJ. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I
think we're there. I don't know if we were there
when he was the DJ, but eventually I think we
left before that happened, which is very on brand for us, right, yes,
(01:16):
but yes, So this documentary delves into the nineteen sixty
nine Harlem Cultural Festival and the lack of media coverage
on it, other civil rights movements and social change that
was happening at the same time. It won so many awards,
including the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature, Just so Many.
(01:37):
One of the reasons it caught so much attention was
the restoration of the footage, which is amazing. It looks amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, the sound was so good too, like the sounds
so clear.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yes, would. I was shocked at how good it looked,
not because just because it's from the seventies, like the
late sixties, early seventies. It looks amazing. The second part
of the title comes from poet and musician Gil Scott
Heron's nineteen seventy poem and song The Revolution Will Not
Be Televised, And it's a mix of concert footage from
(02:14):
this event and interviews with people who attended or performed
that really tells the story of what was going on
at the time, why it mattered, how it's relevant now.
The music is so stunning, it's just amazing, and people
are so moved when they're talking about it and when
they're remembering it amazing. You can see our past episodes
(02:38):
on women, black Women in Blues, Black Women in Hip Hop,
Massage Noir less directly related but related. Yes, yes, all right,
So I wrote plot question Mark because it's kind of
a less of a plot and more of a breakdown
(02:58):
of what this is and how it yeah happens, As
we said. The film documents the Harlem Cultural Festival, which
took place in Harlem over six weekends from June twenty
ninth to August twenty fourth, where black performers took the
stage and the list of performers was wide ranging and
really impressive. Stevie Wonder, Nina Simone, Mahalia Jackson, Gladys Knight
(03:21):
and the Pips, B. B. King, Sly and the Family Stone,
the Chambers Brothers, the Fifth Dimension and Mavis Staples, among
so many others. It was sponsored by Maxwell House, the
coffee brand.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Can we talk about the ad in there too.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's a very time cheek ad tongue in cheek in
the fact that they showed this ad Maxwell House did
that was not the most so kind of appropriate. They're like, oh,
coffee beads from Africa.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Africa, the lens of Africa. The whole thing was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yes, yes, but they were the sponsor. It was produced
and directed by Tony Lawrence and it was supported by
New York City's Liberal Republican mayor John Lindsay. The Black
Panthers provided security because the NYPD refused at first. A
later came in, but at first they were like no,
no know. About three hundred thousand people attended, It was free,
(04:23):
and it was this huge, huge event. While the festival
had these powerhouse performances and professional cameras covering the whole thing, Woodstock,
which was happening about one hundred miles away, completely overshadowed
this in mainstream media coverage. Over forty hours were filmed,
(04:45):
all of which was condensed down into two one hour
specials that I think were shown on ABC and CBS.
After that, the tapes were shelved and pretty much forgotten,
though some tried to bring them back to light a
couple of times, and footage of Nina Simone's performance was
used in a couple of documentaries about her. The producer
of these forty hours, how Tuccin, was one of the
(05:08):
key people trying to get these tapes out to the public.
He tried to sell the footage, but to paraphrase him,
nobody cared. A film archivist named Joe Laura reached out
to Tuccin and digitized and cataloged the tapes. There were
a couple of relationships and deals that didn't work out,
and in twenty sixteen, a couple of producers came together
(05:29):
to make this film and they approached Questlov about the project.
He was initially shocked he'd never heard of it, and
decided he wanted to make sure that others did. He said, quote,
the fact that forty hours of footage was kept from
the public is living proof that revigionous history exists. It
was incredibly important for me to get that history right.
(05:50):
And he also he has a lot of great interviews
about this, but he was talking about how at first
he was questioning whether he could do this, but then
just was like, yes, this is something I can do
and needs to be done and needs to be done correctly.
And I really love how it opens and closes with
attendee Musa Jackson, who's a kid when he went and
(06:13):
to see his reaction that actually that wasn't what they
were intending. I think they wanted to end with Mahalia
Jackson in Mavis doing that really emotional thing emotional performance
sets in the middle. But seeing his reaction it was
just such a good book end of remembering this experience, right.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I mean the fact that he also had to go
back and be validating and like, no, I remember this happening.
I thought I was people thought I was crazy. I
thought I was crazy, but I'm not.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
It happened.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It really happened.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Like I love that.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
That was that level of like the erasure and then
the validation.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Essentially, Yeah, it's good. And he was so clearly moved
and at seeing this, that this footage that had been
pretty much hidden way and a race for all this time.
So it's really lovely. The music's great, The footage is amazing.
I highly recommend. But yes, obviously one of the big
(07:10):
themes is the music. There is a lot of talk
in there about how music can commemorate or recognize these
huge and often painful cultural events or moments or just existences.
So the one I mentioned earlier, Mahalia Jackson singing Martin
(07:33):
Luther King Junior's favorite hymn with Mavis was a really emotional,
powerful moment.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, and just for context, I think you mentioned but
the fact that MLK had just been it's not too
long before, as well as the founder of the Black
pant Panther, Malcolm X. So so many people have been
especially during this time in this conversation of civil rights activism.
This was so close to that that it was very
(08:02):
significant in what was being performed, in what was being
relayed through this specific festival.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yes, and I do have a quote about that from
an NPR article. After a violent winter, the Summer of
Soul was a musical moment of healing by Carol Cooper quote.
Unlike Woodstock, these concerts were no syperitic celeration of hippie counterculture,
but a direct response to the profound losses and violence
endured by black activists and progressives that preceded that summer.
(08:30):
Nonviolent and legislative attempts to dismantle and institutionalized racism had
led to a devastating series of political assassinations during the
nineteen sixties, most attributed to arcane conspiracy theories. Having lost
Medgar Evers in nineteen sixty three, Malcolm X in nineteen
sixty five, then both the Reverend doctor Martin Luther King
Junior and Robert F. Kennedy in nineteen sixty eight, ordinary
(08:54):
Black citizens were tired of counting martyrs. The nineteen sixty
nine edition of the f was a carefully coordinated reaction
to these cumulative losses. Black America's acute sense of being
forcibly denied. Both altruistic leadership and hope made the Harlem
Cultural Festival about more than mere music. So yeah, it
(09:15):
was a It was a lot of uh, these really
traumatic events had happened, a lot of loss of leadership,
And through the interviews with attendees and musicians, you hear
about these ideas of both using music as something for
(09:36):
progress and for activism, but also using music as therapy
or as a way to come together and let some
of these emotions out or share some of these emotions
with a community. Right.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And I think when we talk about music in general,
when we talk about gospel music, when we talk about
folk music, when we talk about hip hop, we know
the origination. And when we often talk about we cant
to contribute beginning or the creation or the invention of something,
it's usually to the black community. The black people music
would be at the top of that list. And I
think that's something that we have to consistently remember. And
(10:10):
the fact that we see two big events would stock
and this event happening back to back, and only one
got the attention and one was appealing to all kind
of you know, that whole hippie lifestyle like just love
each other man, We just want to be together unity,
which is a great ideal, while this festival was talking
about survival essentially and being strong and strengthening each other
(10:31):
and building each other up as humans. So I think
it's such a giant conversation in that and then knowing
which one was erased once again and which one wasn't
and lives in like infamy, like one of we know
when it comes to Woodstock, everybody knows what that is
without knowing what that is, as where we talk about
the Harlem Cultural Festival in that conversation of like we
(10:53):
knew kind of vaguely because of Nina's amone. I think
if you know anything about activism and music and you
know about her, you know a little bit in its context,
but not the full array of what it was. And
just in conversation when we're talking about music in general,
we have to understand that music really did come from
(11:16):
the black community. And when we see Travesty's in this
conversation where they're no longer part of that conversation, I
know that was a kind of a chopped up centis
but that's when we know that injustice is very, very
very real. Erasure is very, very, very real because these
were all things that they have been doing that this
has been their therapy, their conversations, their stories that so
(11:41):
many people would try to hide.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, one of the reasons I would really recommend this
documentary is that you get to see all kinds of
styles of music, all types of genres, and and hearing
(12:06):
the musicians talk about it, or even just the attendees
talk about, oh, I'd never heard this type, or I'd
never heard this type, or I've never done this or
something like that. It was really really interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And comedians. I love thatians coming through.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I was like, okay, yeah they did. They did. And
another thing we're going to talk about later is that,
you know, this is all very dire what we're talking about.
It was very dire, but it's a very joyous, like
this experience. A lot of the crowd is so joyous
and you can see just like all ages of people.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Also, it was free.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's free my mind. These are like huge names. It
was like hit after hit after hit.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Oh yeah, Stevie Wonder is on there. Of course, Nina
Simone once again, but Mahalia Jackson was huge too, Like
like huge names, you're like wait.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
What, Yeah, yeah it was. It was amazing. Yeah, it
was just really cool to see. And one of the
things going back to kind of the the therapy thing,
it just it stuck out to me because it was
about UGA.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But that's conversation we have to come back to. Who
goes all like, but that is my Alma monter, Like,
that's what I went to school, And I'm like, oh
it was.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
It was a reporter that was being interviewed. She was
talking about the power of music is therapy and finding
this and she was one of the first black people
who was allowed to attend UGA and got a lot
of backlash, experienced a lot of racist attacks because of it.
(13:47):
And she would have these people like banging because they
knew what room was hers, so they would be banging
around to disturb her, and she would just turn on
Nina Simone and listen to it, like, no, I can.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I would love to know who that woman was, the
white woman that interviewed. She was like, they can't be here,
they can't they can be here. I don't like it,
but they better not be in our dorm rooms. Essentially,
I know. I'm like, I hope this haunts you. I
hope your grandkids see this and are at least embarrassed.
They might not be horrified because I probably already know
(14:23):
who you are, but at least I hope generationally y'all
are embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah. Yeah, But she had a really interesting story too
about working as a black woman in editorial and writing
and journalism. Very fascinating. Also something I wanted to touch
on because I thought it was cool. I know this
about Questlove because I've seen some interviews with him. He's
a very technical person, like he like likes knowing the
(14:52):
technology and stuff of how did they record this? What
was the technology then? Like we said, this documentary looks amazing,
And I feel like a lot of times when we
do female first with eaves or something, we always come
back to we have to thank the researchers who did
(15:15):
this work. Are the people who were constantly like, no,
we need to we can't let this die, or we
can't forget this, and the people who did the restoration,
who were behind the reclamation of this that it just
looks amazing, it sounds amazing. It's it's such a great
(15:38):
snapshot of the time, but it's also such a it's
so well contextualized with the history and all the things
that were happening, but it also is like it comes
back to what's happening in our current day and just
the work of people doing that of all the like
technical aspects and storytelling us specs and making sure that
(16:02):
this was done well historically.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
They were able to show us what needs to be
done when it comes to history repeating itself, like the
level of work that they've already gone through. Also, I
was very sad. I'm not gonna lie, I think I'm
in a mood. I'm in a mood any when it
comes to just everything happening and I think today is
one of my bad days. Yeah, just gonna put that
a little out there. But it made me sad because
(16:28):
these people who I'm so glad we were they were
able to talk to and interview and bring back to
see their reactions and their joy and their like all
of the things that they had felt and being able
to really relate that to the audience at the same
time feeling like we're back here again, and realizing how
(16:49):
much that community who was working during the civil rights
movement and civil rights movement and time, how much they
had to go through and what kind of work and
sacrifice that they had to go through, but to only
be here again, I'm not gonna lie. I had a moment, yeah,
because I was like, son of a why they did
(17:13):
so much and they made so much progress?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Oh my god. Yeah, now I had that moment too.
I had that moment too. And I mean, that's one
of the things I think is great about it though,
is that it doesn't shy away from that, but it
also does show the joy of this event particularly and
why it was so important. And another thing they touch
on is why it's so important that the movie exists
(17:40):
because not everyone could go to Woodstock, but there was
a movie, there was footage they could see, like they
could if you couldn't go to this event that was
like so powerful and you know, like the whole crowd
is almost completely black people. Like it was a very
(18:00):
powerful event. And if you couldn't go and you never
heard of this, you missed that whole scene. And so
the power of having this footage and being able to
watch it and at least experience it in some way
is really important because not all of us can go
to these events, you know, for whatever reason. Maybe you're
(18:22):
just not New York, maybe you can't afford it to
New York, whatever it is, and so having this is
really important.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I will say the founder did say that at the
very beginning, he said, welcome to this history making event,
Like he really had that in there, and it was like, yeah,
it really was. Obviously, had we not seen this documentary,
not many people would have known how much history was made.
But to see that and how significant that was, Wow,
Like it we really did get to be a witness
(18:50):
to a historical time yeah event.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, And like we said, you would just see people
get so caught up in the memories, like they would
be watching it just like not answering the question because
they were just so caught up in it and being
so open about the experience. So I did want to
touch on that of just like the power of having
things like this. And then of course identity was a
(19:15):
huge theme in here. As we said, it was a
huge time of shift. Actually, when we were writing our book,
we kind of had to have this discussion of like,
why are so many events we're focusing on from like
this specific time period. But it was a time of
huge shift culturally, societally, politically, and there were a couple
(19:36):
of things that stood out to me that people brought up.
One was the conversation of the Fifth Dimension, I believe,
where they said they felt like they weren't black enough. Yes,
and they were talking about how much that hurt them
and how they were like, you know, how do you
color a sound? But music being very segregated at that time,
(19:57):
and why it was so important to them that they
performed at this event that was about celebrating black culture
and black music and black people and it was an
excellent performance.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It was such a great performance.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Oh my gosh, and.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I have this church moment. I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I love how the person that we talked about, Muster Jackson,
who opens and closes it, he's like interspersed throughout. And
he was like, I just remember they were wearing the
Creamsickle outfits, like he remembered it. He was so young,
but he remembered it.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Remember that there were so many kids in that audience.
It was fun to watch them really get into that
type of music. I will say that, Yeah, that group
was so interesting because they talked about how they became
hits in like the whole like interaction with the hair, production,
actual play, and how they came up with their one
of their number one songs. But I think it does
(20:52):
lead to a huge conversation about, like, culturally, what does
music look like? And honestly, it was before the conversation
of no, but the black community are the ones who
created this type of sound to begin with. It just
got co opted and because of that, the black community
created a different type of context because they wanted like
they were good at creating different types of music in
(21:14):
that level, and then that conversation of like where do
we belong if this is the type of sound we have,
and then also going into but we belong everywhere? And
that should be the point as well as when these
get co opted, there comes a conversation about ownership, and
we know when it comes to ownership it often gets
(21:35):
handed to those who have the most power. And why
supremacy has most power? You know, I'm going right way
deep into that thought process, but it is interesting to
see because we also have to be mindful in these
conversations about like who why people do gatekeep specific music
(21:56):
and sounds or anything in general versus why pple abuse
and and and take control of something for monetary gain r.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
There is so much. There is so much, But it
was really like seeing them talk about it and they
having those like oh, I remember when we did this,
or I remember, yeah, it was really it was really nice.
There was also a discussion of gender parody in there,
(22:28):
especially amongst women attendees, and I think it was in
the family Stone they were talking about like I've never
seen a woman play the trumpet before and seeing before
and how how impactful that was for them, So that
was really cool. Of course, Harlem was a big theme,
just Harlem in itself and the the history of Harlem
(22:52):
and the culture of Harlem, the food, the music, that fashion.
It was like a you can't remove it from the
whole real festival.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, Harlem is a culture, like in itself, we know
what Harlem represents and what it became for many who
had been ousted of other areas, many especially in the
black community, outsted of like the South and where they
would end up, and Harlem in itself became a time period,
like it became a focus, like it became a main character,
(23:25):
and so many conversations when it comes to music and art. Again,
that realm though is so often co opted because we
only know Harlem and some big players, but the influence
it had trickles into so many things today that people
don't recognize it for.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
What it was, you know, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. There
was so much to be said about Harlem in this
in this documentary, and they also talked about Spanish Harlem,
and they talked about how at this festival they had
Puerto Rican performers as well and why that was so important.
(24:10):
It's just great again, they did such a fantastic job
of contextualizing the whole thing, right, what was going on?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It was interesting. Manuel well and his father, right, yeah,
we're both featured on there in the conversation and his father, Louise.
Manuel was specific because he remembers those eras talking about
how significant that type of community was and how the
black and Latino community really had to come together during
(24:41):
that time. And there was one feature when they were
specifically focusing on the Black Panthers and the Black Panthers
coming in being security because the cops refused to help
in this festival. So the Black Panthers are like, we
got you. We make sure that everything is up and up.
But in that conversation, the Black Panther members are also
talking about how they are there to protect and ensure
(25:05):
the rights of the black, the brown, the Asian, like
the the I think he said Puerto Ricans specifically, because
I know there's a lot of Puerto Ricans in that
area New York.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Creacan. They had a turn I never heard before.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, but in that like very specific culture because they
need you to understand that if you're not white, you're
a part of the marginalized. And as much as you
want to pretend to be a part of that supremacy,
you'll never be. You'll always be an underling to white supremacy.
And what the Black Panthers really put into conversation was
(25:42):
the intersectionality of what was needed even before intersectionality was
a conversation. Yeah, and when I'm saying intersectionality just at
the levels of like, yeah, you might not be completely oppressed,
but you're somewhat oppressed.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
You know, like the levels may be.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Different for you, but is there.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
We talked about them in our Ada the Accessibility episode,
and they were there for that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
They were a part of the conversation with the Flave
before That's a whole different thing, but like it was
really interesting to see. But again, like that focal point
within Harlem, that that era really just drive it home
into what they were looking at. It was bigger than
just a festival. It was.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Something else they touched on. And here is religion, and
it was really interesting conversation kind of talking about Christianity
coming in and co opting again like African religions, but
the importance of music in religion. And they have a
(27:00):
whole great conversation about gospel music in there and the
power of that. And then yes, they obviously big theme
who gets televised, who gets erased, So they do have
a bunch of clips from they were interviewing people at
(27:22):
this festival and the moon landing had just happened, and
so many of the people like, no, this is more
important to me. You're just wasting my tax payer money.
You should put that in. Harlow like, why are you, oh,
why are you sending it there when we have all
of these people who need it here. But so, yeah,
(27:44):
this was like this hugely important event for a lot
of people. Woodstock had gotten all this coverage. Now the
moon landing was getting all this coverage, but it wasn't
getting any any coverage really, So Stevie Won says in there,
the so called powers that are were didn't find it
significant enough to keep it as part of history. And yeah,
(28:08):
I mean even Queslov has a lot of quotes about it.
He's like, I can't believe I was denied this. This
would have meant so much to me. It would have
maybe changed my whole musical understanding. But instead it just
sat and gathered dust for all these years.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You know, and I know we're going to talk about
it in just a second, but I think it really
comes close to what people, what many people have said,
whether they're a queer community, whether they're disabled, or whether
they are a part of the people of color, if
it's not tragic or traumatic or violent, they don't want
to know this.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
They don't care.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
They don't want to spread Yeah, they don't want to
spread joy because they were having joy and unity and
so that was too good. They looked too happy. They
looked too Christine, this is influential in a positive manner,
So to show that is not as good. They want
to show anything that looks if if something volatile had happened,
(29:10):
absolutely it would have been the number one headline story
of whatever violence or issue or riot or whatever they
could think of could have happened. But because it wasn't
because it was a celebration, because people loved it, and
then probably we would want more of it.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
They did not.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It was not catchy enough because it was too much joy.
And I think about that all the time, like the
bad news that we see that we don't see enough
of the joy, but a collective joy for a giant
group of people in an area that's still being gentrified
at that point or hadn't been quite gentrified at that point.
To have that as a published part, of course, I'm
(29:51):
not going to show that. Of course they would try
to erase that because that's too much in giving up
love and humanity.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, yeah, and they did. They certainly did try to
keep it under wraps for a very long time. But yeah,
I did want to end on that note of joy.
It does look, like I said, when you're looking out
into the crowd, it looks incredibly joyful. When you're listening
(30:18):
to the interviews, people are moved, but in joyous way.
I think the last line is Russa Jackson. He says,
and how beautiful it was, and he's just like visually
tearing up but happy. It's a very like we said.
It tackles these dark, dark things, but it's very joyous
(30:41):
in the music. And here's a quote from questlov nineteen
sixty nine was the year we planted the seeds of
what we call black joy, the idea of seeing ourselves
in a beautiful light, learning to love ourselves, because previously
all indications pointed to the self hate we've been going
through since the days of slavery and Jim Crow. That
year we embraced our blackness and coined the phrase black
(31:03):
is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And that's another conversation. That's also the same year that
they coined the term black like instead of calling people
a derogatory term that we know now, that they began
using the term, you know, black community, black people in
a way in order to reverse some of the trauma
that has been imposed due to the labeling in itself.
And yeah, I loved that too, with Nina Simone's poems
(31:26):
of like empowering blackness is a gorgeous thing. And also
this is I think something we could have said at
the top, because neither Annie and I are from the
black community obviously. How However, with that conversation is like,
we have the opportunity to witness something beautiful that wasn't
(31:46):
for us. This is not for us in that manner
of that. We should be inspired by their work, We
should be inspired by that community, We should be inspired
by the beauty that happened there and to be able
to acknowledge how beautiful this festival was. But it's not
about us.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
It's not for us.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
And that's that understanding that we should actually absolutely elevate
these voices, but an understanding and try to pretend like, yeah,
and I did this for them. Nah. No, this is
an amazing documentary that shows so much beauty and joy
and we should be frustrated that we have not been
able to witness this before.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yes, absolutely absolutely, because it's I mean, I can't recommend
it enough. It's it's so good, the music, all of it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Mahalia Jackson, Mahalia Jackson, I apologize. So I watched. I
think I've talked about this before when we were talking
about gospel music and soul music. Watching a play based
on her when I was working as a missionary in
small town, Oklahoma, which I was trying to think back
on who got this tickets? They're like, we need to
go see this play. The people I went with were
not black. I'll tell you that so I don't know
(32:57):
who we were, like, we need to go see this
because that was so outside the realm of what I
would have expected because I was there with the Southern
Baptist Convention, y'all. This was before I knew better.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Okay, So don't judge me, but this memory, well you
can judge me.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Actually you should judge me, but this memory specifically of
going to because I remember that play was so good
and the lead actress that I can't remember, I am
so sorry. In Oklahoma. It was glorious. Everything about that
play was good. The music was good, the actors were good,
the tailing of the story was good. And it was
also joyous celebrating her life and to see her perform
(33:33):
live like for that was amazing. It's truly mind blowing
to see that type of performance actually on stage, and
that it was in a secular setting because she did
often did perform everywhere, but she was also a specifically
gospel singer. So gorgeous. It was so gorgeous. But the
entirety of that with her and Mavis was so beautiful. Yes,
(33:56):
like heart stoppingly like h and I'm not even religious,
but it was gorge.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, and it was really nice because you know, it
was a sad moment in a lot of ways that
Mahelia Jackson was like, maybe this I don't feel well
like she shared this. Yeah, that's because she remember it.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Not only that's one of the best starts. Sorry, it's
like Mayva was saying, like, I remember her coming up
to me, and then they show it on the clip
of her going up through that. I told Stilwell, and
he's just seeing girls.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Like a they have it on film.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
They have it on film. That's phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
And the camera angles were amazing.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I was like, oh whoa Like he and the original
guy who came in on a very low budget with
his own idea with the sponsorship still but like he
had very minimal mal equipment, but he did amazing job
with this work. Like he came in knowing that it
could be so good.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yes, and it really was, and he was understandably frustrated
that they just shelved it, as we all are and
should be.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Oh yeah, I highly recommend loved it. Loved it yes
well listeners. If you have any suggestions for movies we
should talk about or music love music suggestions all the time,
you can email us at Hello at Stuffwenever Told You
(35:24):
dot Com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
one Never Told You. We're also on YouTube, we have
a t polk store, and we have we Can Get
Forever You Get Here books. Thanks as always to our
super producer Chris, senior executive Bruce Maya, and your contributor Joey.
Thank you and I see you for listening. Stuff Never
Told You is the protection of my Heart Radio. For
more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check out
(35:45):
the heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or if you listen
to your favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. One
Never Told You, Protection of Buy Heart Radio, and today
for feminist movie Friday, we're talking about the twenty twenty
one documentary Summer of Love or When the Revolution Could
(00:26):
Not Be Televised, directed by Amir Questlov Thompson, who is
a coworker.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
He's on our network network, so we know friends of
friends and friends.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
We're definitely like two degrees away from him.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We two are one.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well one, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, one, I think we're one. Like we're so close
to sitting next to him one day in a random work.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Activity, random work activity. Yeah. I think we actually did
go to an event at a conference where he was
the DJ. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I
think we're there. I don't know if we were there
when he was the DJ, but eventually I think we
left before that happened, which is very on brand for us, right, yes,
(01:16):
but yes, So this documentary delves into the nineteen sixty
nine Harlem Cultural Festival and the lack of media coverage
on it, other civil rights movements and social change that
was happening at the same time. It won so many awards,
including the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature, Just so Many.
(01:37):
One of the reasons it caught so much attention was
the restoration of the footage, which is amazing. It looks amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, the sound was so good too, like the sounds
so clear.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yes, would. I was shocked at how good it looked,
not because just because it's from the seventies, like the
late sixties, early seventies. It looks amazing. The second part
of the title comes from poet and musician Gil Scott
Heron's nineteen seventy poem and song The Revolution Will Not
Be Televised, And it's a mix of concert footage from
(02:14):
this event and interviews with people who attended or performed
that really tells the story of what was going on
at the time, why it mattered, how it's relevant now.
The music is so stunning, it's just amazing, and people
are so moved when they're talking about it and when
they're remembering it amazing. You can see our past episodes
(02:38):
on women, black Women in Blues, Black Women in Hip Hop,
Massage Noir less directly related but related. Yes, yes, all right,
So I wrote plot question Mark because it's kind of
a less of a plot and more of a breakdown
(02:58):
of what this is and how it yeah happens, As
we said. The film documents the Harlem Cultural Festival, which
took place in Harlem over six weekends from June twenty
ninth to August twenty fourth, where black performers took the
stage and the list of performers was wide ranging and
really impressive. Stevie Wonder, Nina Simone, Mahalia Jackson, Gladys Knight
(03:21):
and the Pips, B. B. King, Sly and the Family Stone,
the Chambers Brothers, the Fifth Dimension and Mavis Staples, among
so many others. It was sponsored by Maxwell House, the
coffee brand.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Can we talk about the ad in there too.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's a very time cheek ad tongue in cheek in
the fact that they showed this ad Maxwell House did
that was not the most so kind of appropriate. They're like, oh,
coffee beads from Africa.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Africa, the lens of Africa. The whole thing was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yes, yes, but they were the sponsor. It was produced
and directed by Tony Lawrence and it was supported by
New York City's Liberal Republican mayor John Lindsay. The Black
Panthers provided security because the NYPD refused at first. A
later came in, but at first they were like no,
no know. About three hundred thousand people attended, It was free,
(04:23):
and it was this huge, huge event. While the festival
had these powerhouse performances and professional cameras covering the whole thing, Woodstock,
which was happening about one hundred miles away, completely overshadowed
this in mainstream media coverage. Over forty hours were filmed,
(04:45):
all of which was condensed down into two one hour
specials that I think were shown on ABC and CBS.
After that, the tapes were shelved and pretty much forgotten,
though some tried to bring them back to light a
couple of times, and footage of Nina Simone's performance was
used in a couple of documentaries about her. The producer
of these forty hours, how Tuccin, was one of the
(05:08):
key people trying to get these tapes out to the public.
He tried to sell the footage, but to paraphrase him,
nobody cared. A film archivist named Joe Laura reached out
to Tuccin and digitized and cataloged the tapes. There were
a couple of relationships and deals that didn't work out,
and in twenty sixteen, a couple of producers came together
(05:29):
to make this film and they approached Questlov about the project.
He was initially shocked he'd never heard of it, and
decided he wanted to make sure that others did. He said, quote,
the fact that forty hours of footage was kept from
the public is living proof that revigionous history exists. It
was incredibly important for me to get that history right.
(05:50):
And he also he has a lot of great interviews
about this, but he was talking about how at first
he was questioning whether he could do this, but then
just was like, yes, this is something I can do
and needs to be done and needs to be done correctly.
And I really love how it opens and closes with
attendee Musa Jackson, who's a kid when he went and
(06:13):
to see his reaction that actually that wasn't what they
were intending. I think they wanted to end with Mahalia
Jackson in Mavis doing that really emotional thing emotional performance
sets in the middle. But seeing his reaction it was
just such a good book end of remembering this experience, right.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I mean the fact that he also had to go
back and be validating and like, no, I remember this happening.
I thought I was people thought I was crazy. I
thought I was crazy, but I'm not.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
It happened.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It really happened.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Like I love that.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
That was that level of like the erasure and then
the validation.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Essentially, Yeah, it's good. And he was so clearly moved
and at seeing this, that this footage that had been
pretty much hidden way and a race for all this time.
So it's really lovely. The music's great, The footage is amazing.
I highly recommend. But yes, obviously one of the big
(07:10):
themes is the music. There is a lot of talk
in there about how music can commemorate or recognize these
huge and often painful cultural events or moments or just existences.
So the one I mentioned earlier, Mahalia Jackson singing Martin
(07:33):
Luther King Junior's favorite hymn with Mavis was a really emotional,
powerful moment.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, and just for context, I think you mentioned but
the fact that MLK had just been it's not too
long before, as well as the founder of the Black
pant Panther, Malcolm X. So so many people have been
especially during this time in this conversation of civil rights activism.
This was so close to that that it was very
(08:02):
significant in what was being performed, in what was being
relayed through this specific festival.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yes, and I do have a quote about that from
an NPR article. After a violent winter, the Summer of
Soul was a musical moment of healing by Carol Cooper quote.
Unlike Woodstock, these concerts were no syperitic celeration of hippie counterculture,
but a direct response to the profound losses and violence
endured by black activists and progressives that preceded that summer.
(08:30):
Nonviolent and legislative attempts to dismantle and institutionalized racism had
led to a devastating series of political assassinations during the
nineteen sixties, most attributed to arcane conspiracy theories. Having lost
Medgar Evers in nineteen sixty three, Malcolm X in nineteen
sixty five, then both the Reverend doctor Martin Luther King
Junior and Robert F. Kennedy in nineteen sixty eight, ordinary
(08:54):
Black citizens were tired of counting martyrs. The nineteen sixty
nine edition of the f was a carefully coordinated reaction
to these cumulative losses. Black America's acute sense of being
forcibly denied. Both altruistic leadership and hope made the Harlem
Cultural Festival about more than mere music. So yeah, it
(09:15):
was a It was a lot of uh, these really
traumatic events had happened, a lot of loss of leadership,
And through the interviews with attendees and musicians, you hear
about these ideas of both using music as something for
(09:36):
progress and for activism, but also using music as therapy
or as a way to come together and let some
of these emotions out or share some of these emotions
with a community. Right.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And I think when we talk about music in general,
when we talk about gospel music, when we talk about
folk music, when we talk about hip hop, we know
the origination. And when we often talk about we cant
to contribute beginning or the creation or the invention of something,
it's usually to the black community. The black people music
would be at the top of that list. And I
think that's something that we have to consistently remember. And
(10:10):
the fact that we see two big events would stock
and this event happening back to back, and only one
got the attention and one was appealing to all kind
of you know, that whole hippie lifestyle like just love
each other man, We just want to be together unity,
which is a great ideal, while this festival was talking
about survival essentially and being strong and strengthening each other
(10:31):
and building each other up as humans. So I think
it's such a giant conversation in that and then knowing
which one was erased once again and which one wasn't
and lives in like infamy, like one of we know
when it comes to Woodstock, everybody knows what that is
without knowing what that is, as where we talk about
the Harlem Cultural Festival in that conversation of like we
(10:53):
knew kind of vaguely because of Nina's amone. I think
if you know anything about activism and music and you
know about her, you know a little bit in its context,
but not the full array of what it was. And
just in conversation when we're talking about music in general,
we have to understand that music really did come from
(11:16):
the black community. And when we see Travesty's in this
conversation where they're no longer part of that conversation, I
know that was a kind of a chopped up centis
but that's when we know that injustice is very, very
very real. Erasure is very, very, very real because these
were all things that they have been doing that this
has been their therapy, their conversations, their stories that so
(11:41):
many people would try to hide.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, one of the reasons I would really recommend this
documentary is that you get to see all kinds of
styles of music, all types of genres, and and hearing
(12:06):
the musicians talk about it, or even just the attendees
talk about, oh, I'd never heard this type, or I'd
never heard this type, or I've never done this or
something like that. It was really really interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And comedians. I love thatians coming through.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I was like, okay, yeah they did. They did. And
another thing we're going to talk about later is that,
you know, this is all very dire what we're talking about.
It was very dire, but it's a very joyous, like
this experience. A lot of the crowd is so joyous
and you can see just like all ages of people.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Also, it was free.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's free my mind. These are like huge names. It
was like hit after hit after hit.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Oh yeah, Stevie Wonder is on there. Of course, Nina
Simone once again, but Mahalia Jackson was huge too, Like
like huge names, you're like wait.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
What, Yeah, yeah it was. It was amazing. Yeah, it
was just really cool to see. And one of the
things going back to kind of the the therapy thing,
it just it stuck out to me because it was
about UGA.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But that's conversation we have to come back to. Who
goes all like, but that is my Alma monter, Like,
that's what I went to school, And I'm like, oh
it was.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
It was a reporter that was being interviewed. She was
talking about the power of music is therapy and finding
this and she was one of the first black people
who was allowed to attend UGA and got a lot
of backlash, experienced a lot of racist attacks because of it.
(13:47):
And she would have these people like banging because they
knew what room was hers, so they would be banging
around to disturb her, and she would just turn on
Nina Simone and listen to it, like, no, I can.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I would love to know who that woman was, the
white woman that interviewed. She was like, they can't be here,
they can't they can be here. I don't like it,
but they better not be in our dorm rooms. Essentially,
I know. I'm like, I hope this haunts you. I
hope your grandkids see this and are at least embarrassed.
They might not be horrified because I probably already know
(14:23):
who you are, but at least I hope generationally y'all
are embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah. Yeah, But she had a really interesting story too
about working as a black woman in editorial and writing
and journalism. Very fascinating. Also something I wanted to touch
on because I thought it was cool. I know this
about Questlove because I've seen some interviews with him. He's
a very technical person, like he like likes knowing the
(14:52):
technology and stuff of how did they record this? What
was the technology then? Like we said, this documentary looks amazing,
And I feel like a lot of times when we
do female first with eaves or something, we always come
back to we have to thank the researchers who did
(15:15):
this work. Are the people who were constantly like, no,
we need to we can't let this die, or we
can't forget this, and the people who did the restoration,
who were behind the reclamation of this that it just
looks amazing, it sounds amazing. It's it's such a great
(15:38):
snapshot of the time, but it's also such a it's
so well contextualized with the history and all the things
that were happening, but it also is like it comes
back to what's happening in our current day and just
the work of people doing that of all the like
technical aspects and storytelling us specs and making sure that
(16:02):
this was done well historically.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
They were able to show us what needs to be
done when it comes to history repeating itself, like the
level of work that they've already gone through. Also, I
was very sad. I'm not gonna lie, I think I'm
in a mood. I'm in a mood any when it
comes to just everything happening and I think today is
one of my bad days. Yeah, just gonna put that
a little out there. But it made me sad because
(16:28):
these people who I'm so glad we were they were
able to talk to and interview and bring back to
see their reactions and their joy and their like all
of the things that they had felt and being able
to really relate that to the audience at the same
time feeling like we're back here again, and realizing how
(16:49):
much that community who was working during the civil rights
movement and civil rights movement and time, how much they
had to go through and what kind of work and
sacrifice that they had to go through, but to only
be here again, I'm not gonna lie. I had a moment, yeah,
because I was like, son of a why they did
(17:13):
so much and they made so much progress?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Oh my god. Yeah, now I had that moment too.
I had that moment too. And I mean, that's one
of the things I think is great about it though,
is that it doesn't shy away from that, but it
also does show the joy of this event particularly and
why it was so important. And another thing they touch
on is why it's so important that the movie exists
(17:40):
because not everyone could go to Woodstock, but there was
a movie, there was footage they could see, like they
could if you couldn't go to this event that was
like so powerful and you know, like the whole crowd
is almost completely black people. Like it was a very
(18:00):
powerful event. And if you couldn't go and you never
heard of this, you missed that whole scene. And so
the power of having this footage and being able to
watch it and at least experience it in some way
is really important because not all of us can go
to these events, you know, for whatever reason. Maybe you're
(18:22):
just not New York, maybe you can't afford it to
New York, whatever it is, and so having this is
really important.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I will say the founder did say that at the
very beginning, he said, welcome to this history making event,
Like he really had that in there, and it was like, yeah,
it really was. Obviously, had we not seen this documentary,
not many people would have known how much history was made.
But to see that and how significant that was, Wow,
Like it we really did get to be a witness
(18:50):
to a historical time yeah event.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, And like we said, you would just see people
get so caught up in the memories, like they would
be watching it just like not answering the question because
they were just so caught up in it and being
so open about the experience. So I did want to
touch on that of just like the power of having
things like this. And then of course identity was a
(19:15):
huge theme in here. As we said, it was a
huge time of shift. Actually, when we were writing our book,
we kind of had to have this discussion of like,
why are so many events we're focusing on from like
this specific time period. But it was a time of
huge shift culturally, societally, politically, and there were a couple
(19:36):
of things that stood out to me that people brought up.
One was the conversation of the Fifth Dimension, I believe,
where they said they felt like they weren't black enough. Yes,
and they were talking about how much that hurt them
and how they were like, you know, how do you
color a sound? But music being very segregated at that time,
(19:57):
and why it was so important to them that they
performed at this event that was about celebrating black culture
and black music and black people and it was an
excellent performance.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It was such a great performance.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Oh my gosh, and.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I have this church moment. I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I love how the person that we talked about, Muster Jackson,
who opens and closes it, he's like interspersed throughout. And
he was like, I just remember they were wearing the
Creamsickle outfits, like he remembered it. He was so young,
but he remembered it.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Remember that there were so many kids in that audience.
It was fun to watch them really get into that
type of music. I will say that, Yeah, that group
was so interesting because they talked about how they became
hits in like the whole like interaction with the hair, production,
actual play, and how they came up with their one
of their number one songs. But I think it does
(20:52):
lead to a huge conversation about, like, culturally, what does
music look like? And honestly, it was before the conversation
of no, but the black community are the ones who
created this type of sound to begin with. It just
got co opted and because of that, the black community
created a different type of context because they wanted like
they were good at creating different types of music in
(21:14):
that level, and then that conversation of like where do
we belong if this is the type of sound we have,
and then also going into but we belong everywhere? And
that should be the point as well as when these
get co opted, there comes a conversation about ownership, and
we know when it comes to ownership it often gets
(21:35):
handed to those who have the most power. And why
supremacy has most power? You know, I'm going right way
deep into that thought process, but it is interesting to
see because we also have to be mindful in these
conversations about like who why people do gatekeep specific music
(21:56):
and sounds or anything in general versus why pple abuse
and and and take control of something for monetary gain r.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
There is so much. There is so much, But it
was really like seeing them talk about it and they
having those like oh, I remember when we did this,
or I remember, yeah, it was really it was really nice.
There was also a discussion of gender parody in there,
(22:28):
especially amongst women attendees, and I think it was in
the family Stone they were talking about like I've never
seen a woman play the trumpet before and seeing before
and how how impactful that was for them, So that
was really cool. Of course, Harlem was a big theme,
just Harlem in itself and the the history of Harlem
(22:52):
and the culture of Harlem, the food, the music, that fashion.
It was like a you can't remove it from the
whole real festival.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, Harlem is a culture, like in itself, we know
what Harlem represents and what it became for many who
had been ousted of other areas, many especially in the
black community, outsted of like the South and where they
would end up, and Harlem in itself became a time period,
like it became a focus, like it became a main character,
(23:25):
and so many conversations when it comes to music and art. Again,
that realm though is so often co opted because we
only know Harlem and some big players, but the influence
it had trickles into so many things today that people
don't recognize it for.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
What it was, you know, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. There
was so much to be said about Harlem in this
in this documentary, and they also talked about Spanish Harlem,
and they talked about how at this festival they had
Puerto Rican performers as well and why that was so important.
(24:10):
It's just great again, they did such a fantastic job
of contextualizing the whole thing, right, what was going on?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
It was interesting. Manuel well and his father, right, yeah,
we're both featured on there in the conversation and his father, Louise.
Manuel was specific because he remembers those eras talking about
how significant that type of community was and how the
black and Latino community really had to come together during
(24:41):
that time. And there was one feature when they were
specifically focusing on the Black Panthers and the Black Panthers
coming in being security because the cops refused to help
in this festival. So the Black Panthers are like, we
got you. We make sure that everything is up and up.
But in that conversation, the Black Panther members are also
talking about how they are there to protect and ensure
(25:05):
the rights of the black, the brown, the Asian, like
the the I think he said Puerto Ricans specifically, because
I know there's a lot of Puerto Ricans in that
area New York.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Creacan. They had a turn I never heard before.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, but in that like very specific culture because they
need you to understand that if you're not white, you're
a part of the marginalized. And as much as you
want to pretend to be a part of that supremacy,
you'll never be. You'll always be an underling to white supremacy.
And what the Black Panthers really put into conversation was
(25:42):
the intersectionality of what was needed even before intersectionality was
a conversation. Yeah, and when I'm saying intersectionality just at
the levels of like, yeah, you might not be completely oppressed,
but you're somewhat oppressed.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
You know, like the levels may be.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Different for you, but is there.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
We talked about them in our Ada the Accessibility episode,
and they were there for that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
They were a part of the conversation with the Flave
before That's a whole different thing, but like it was
really interesting to see. But again, like that focal point
within Harlem, that that era really just drive it home
into what they were looking at. It was bigger than
just a festival. It was.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Something else they touched on. And here is religion, and
it was really interesting conversation kind of talking about Christianity
coming in and co opting again like African religions, but
the importance of music in religion. And they have a
(27:00):
whole great conversation about gospel music in there and the
power of that. And then yes, they obviously big theme
who gets televised, who gets erased, So they do have
a bunch of clips from they were interviewing people at
(27:22):
this festival and the moon landing had just happened, and
so many of the people like, no, this is more
important to me. You're just wasting my tax payer money.
You should put that in. Harlow like, why are you, oh,
why are you sending it there when we have all
of these people who need it here. But so, yeah,
(27:44):
this was like this hugely important event for a lot
of people. Woodstock had gotten all this coverage. Now the
moon landing was getting all this coverage, but it wasn't
getting any any coverage really, So Stevie Won says in there,
the so called powers that are were didn't find it
significant enough to keep it as part of history. And yeah,
(28:08):
I mean even Queslov has a lot of quotes about it.
He's like, I can't believe I was denied this. This
would have meant so much to me. It would have
maybe changed my whole musical understanding. But instead it just
sat and gathered dust for all these years.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You know, and I know we're going to talk about
it in just a second, but I think it really
comes close to what people, what many people have said,
whether they're a queer community, whether they're disabled, or whether
they are a part of the people of color, if
it's not tragic or traumatic or violent, they don't want
to know this.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
They don't care.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
They don't want to spread Yeah, they don't want to
spread joy because they were having joy and unity and
so that was too good. They looked too happy. They
looked too Christine, this is influential in a positive manner,
So to show that is not as good. They want
to show anything that looks if if something volatile had happened,
(29:10):
absolutely it would have been the number one headline story
of whatever violence or issue or riot or whatever they
could think of could have happened. But because it wasn't
because it was a celebration, because people loved it, and
then probably we would want more of it.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
They did not.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It was not catchy enough because it was too much joy.
And I think about that all the time, like the
bad news that we see that we don't see enough
of the joy, but a collective joy for a giant
group of people in an area that's still being gentrified
at that point or hadn't been quite gentrified at that point.
To have that as a published part, of course, I'm
(29:51):
not going to show that. Of course they would try
to erase that because that's too much in giving up
love and humanity.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, yeah, and they did. They certainly did try to
keep it under wraps for a very long time. But yeah,
I did want to end on that note of joy.
It does look, like I said, when you're looking out
into the crowd, it looks incredibly joyful. When you're listening
(30:18):
to the interviews, people are moved, but in joyous way.
I think the last line is Russa Jackson. He says,
and how beautiful it was, and he's just like visually
tearing up but happy. It's a very like we said.
It tackles these dark, dark things, but it's very joyous
(30:41):
in the music. And here's a quote from questlov nineteen
sixty nine was the year we planted the seeds of
what we call black joy, the idea of seeing ourselves
in a beautiful light, learning to love ourselves, because previously
all indications pointed to the self hate we've been going
through since the days of slavery and Jim Crow. That
year we embraced our blackness and coined the phrase black
(31:03):
is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And that's another conversation. That's also the same year that
they coined the term black like instead of calling people
a derogatory term that we know now, that they began
using the term, you know, black community, black people in
a way in order to reverse some of the trauma
that has been imposed due to the labeling in itself.
And yeah, I loved that too, with Nina Simone's poems
(31:26):
of like empowering blackness is a gorgeous thing. And also
this is I think something we could have said at
the top, because neither Annie and I are from the
black community obviously. How However, with that conversation is like,
we have the opportunity to witness something beautiful that wasn't
(31:46):
for us. This is not for us in that manner
of that. We should be inspired by their work, We
should be inspired by that community, We should be inspired
by the beauty that happened there and to be able
to acknowledge how beautiful this festival was. But it's not
about us.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
It's not for us.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
And that's that understanding that we should actually absolutely elevate
these voices, but an understanding and try to pretend like, yeah,
and I did this for them. Nah. No, this is
an amazing documentary that shows so much beauty and joy
and we should be frustrated that we have not been
able to witness this before.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yes, absolutely absolutely, because it's I mean, I can't recommend
it enough. It's it's so good, the music, all of it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Mahalia Jackson, Mahalia Jackson, I apologize. So I watched. I
think I've talked about this before when we were talking
about gospel music and soul music. Watching a play based
on her when I was working as a missionary in
small town, Oklahoma, which I was trying to think back
on who got this tickets? They're like, we need to
go see this play. The people I went with were
not black. I'll tell you that so I don't know
(32:57):
who we were, like, we need to go see this
because that was so outside the realm of what I
would have expected because I was there with the Southern
Baptist Convention, y'all. This was before I knew better.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Okay, So don't judge me, but this memory, well you
can judge me.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Actually you should judge me, but this memory specifically of
going to because I remember that play was so good
and the lead actress that I can't remember, I am
so sorry. In Oklahoma. It was glorious. Everything about that
play was good. The music was good, the actors were good,
the tailing of the story was good. And it was
also joyous celebrating her life and to see her perform
(33:33):
live like for that was amazing. It's truly mind blowing
to see that type of performance actually on stage, and
that it was in a secular setting because she did
often did perform everywhere, but she was also a specifically
gospel singer. So gorgeous. It was so gorgeous. But the
entirety of that with her and Mavis was so beautiful. Yes,
(33:56):
like heart stoppingly like h and I'm not even religious,
but it was gorge.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, and it was really nice because you know, it
was a sad moment in a lot of ways that
Mahelia Jackson was like, maybe this I don't feel well
like she shared this. Yeah, that's because she remember it.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Not only that's one of the best starts. Sorry, it's
like Mayva was saying, like, I remember her coming up
to me, and then they show it on the clip
of her going up through that. I told Stilwell, and
he's just seeing girls.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Like a they have it on film.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
They have it on film. That's phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
And the camera angles were amazing.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I was like, oh whoa Like he and the original
guy who came in on a very low budget with
his own idea with the sponsorship still but like he
had very minimal mal equipment, but he did amazing job
with this work. Like he came in knowing that it
could be so good.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yes, and it really was, and he was understandably frustrated
that they just shelved it, as we all are and
should be.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Oh yeah, I highly recommend loved it. Loved it yes
well listeners. If you have any suggestions for movies we
should talk about or music love music suggestions all the time,
you can email us at Hello at Stuffwenever Told You
(35:24):
dot Com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
one Never Told You. We're also on YouTube, we have
a t polk store, and we have we Can Get
Forever You Get Here books. Thanks as always to our
super producer Chris, senior executive Bruce Maya, and your contributor Joey.
Thank you and I see you for listening. Stuff Never
Told You is the protection of my Heart Radio. For
more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check out
(35:45):
the heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or if you listen
to your favorite shows,
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