January 20, 2026 • 21 mins
Half-elf Arwen Evenstar from the Lord of the Rings universe had to navigate questions of love and immortality. We delve into her story, and the differences between her adaptions.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steffan
never told you Protection of by Heart Radio, and welcome
to another sub sub sub sub sub segment of fictional
women around the world, and today first one of the year.
(00:29):
There was a lot of pressure, Samantha, and I'm going
to talk about that for a second. But today we
are finally tackling a Lord of the Rings character. We
have not done it yet, not the one that I
originally intended though, as I told Samantha, because I originally
meant to do Aowen, the feminist papers on her were
(00:54):
too many for me to handle. So we are just
going to table that for now, and instead we're talking
about our when even Star I can't do the Elvish,
do not come at me. I'm not going to do
her last name in Elvish, but it translates to even Star. Uh.
You know. Actually, the last time I watched Lord of
(01:16):
the Rings is with you, and it was when we
were in La at a conference. Oh yeah, and I
broke my laptop.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yep, that exactly. It has.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
It's like a comfort show because I just recently watched
it again. My partner's family loves loves this tale. We
even played a card game based on it. It was
actually really good to go on different missions and you
have to do it together or you fail as a whole,
you know, as the Fellowship essentially, and it follows the
(01:49):
book and not the movie, so there's a lot of components.
Was that's very disappointed on some of the things that
were left out of the movie, even though the movie
was really great, great adaptation. So us here are nerds
with the Lord of the Rings trilogy and Tolkien fans
just watched it once again. Like I said, I am
on my rewatch of the Return of the Key, there
(02:12):
was conversation about going to the theaters.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
We didn't make it, but big fans, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I am also a big fan. I do have
a strange thing that happens to me when I love
something I specifically from a certain time of my life,
that it's almost painful for me to rewatch. So I
haven't I don't engage in rewatches that much, but that
(02:42):
the Lord of the Rings movie, the Lord of the
Rings movies are back in theaters right now and they're
doing very well. And I was reminiscing on about how
much I did love them as a kid, I would
go to midnight showings. I would run to the best seats.
This was before where you got a sign seats and
they would just like raise the ear. Yes, we would run.
(03:08):
I had like the glowing Lord of the Ring goblets
that you could get from Burger King. I still have them.
I had a fancy copy of all the books. I
named my cat Arwin. I really just like the name,
but apparently it means noble maiden. Yes, and my dad
(03:29):
loved Lord of the Rings. He was always talking to
me about it. This was a big like bonding thing
for us. I did read the books. I read The
Hobbit and the Similarian and Samantha and I have talked
about our book it slash accelerated reading experiences, but they
(03:49):
are a lot of points you could get for reading those. Sure, yes,
but Tolkien is pretty daunting, Like everything he wrote was
pretty daunting, and there's just so much very specific war.
So I'm going to do my best here. Also kind
of famously, not a lot of women involved, and those
(04:13):
who are typically defined by their relation to men, as
in the wife, the mother, the sister, which we'll talk
a little bit about with Rowin. I almost did glad
Real too, but with the new Amazon show, it was
making my head hurt. So that's another thing we're gonna
have to do later. And also, I'll say a lot
(04:35):
of the depictions of women are more empowered, even if
only a little, in the newer live action stuff, compared
to the books, so we are going to talk about
the differences there. It's been a long time since I
have read the books, and this is why aoen that
(04:56):
it's going to have to be a whole bigger episode
because when I was doing my like, first, oh, we
should do an episode on this, and people are like,
do you remember this happened in the books, I was like,
oh no, I didn't. Okay, I'm gonna have to look
into that. Though author J. R. R. Tolkien once said
the story of Arwen and Aragorn is essential, the tale
(05:19):
of Airgorn and Arwin appeared in the appendix of The
Lord of the Rings, and from what I understand, she
is not in it much. But I can't recall that either,
even though I know I did read it, so all right.
Arwen Evenstar is played by liv Tyler in the live
action films. She is the half elf daughter of Lord
(05:42):
el Rond, and Lady Celebrian. Her family is well off
and well regarded. She is the granddaughter of Galadriel. She's
like very connected. She's like a famous self. We'll say.
She was born in the Elvish city riven Dell, and
she spent a good chunk of her time either there
(06:04):
or in Lothorian with Galadriel. Because she is half alf
she gets to decide if she wants immortality or not,
which is a big part of her story. Another thing
that is a big part of her story is her
mother was captured, tortured, and poisoned by orcs, something that
el Rond was able to heal physically. You kind of
(06:25):
see that in the movies, but she never truly recovered,
and she went on the boats to the Blessed Realm,
which I've always presumed be heaven, but I guess it's
up for interpretation. When Arwin was over two thy seven
(06:46):
hundred years old, she met a twenty year old man
named Aragorn while he was staying at riven Dell, and
it was love at first sight for him. He mistook
her for like a mythical Elvis, and he just thought
she was the most beautiful thing. And talk about an
age gap, although she is actually pretty young for an elf.
(07:11):
Most elves are much older than that, And in case
you don't know and this universe, elves don't age the
same as humans and are usually described as almost a
theorially beautiful, and she was described as amongst the most beautiful.
She's like the Helen of Troy of the elves. So
(07:32):
about thirty years later from this meeting, Ara Gorn and
Rowin meet again and promise themselves to each other. However,
this meant that Rowin was choosing to give up her
immortality by not sailing into the Blessed Realms and remaining
with Ara Gorn instead, something her father wouldn't permit until
Aragorn became the king of Gondor and Arnor. So Ara
(07:56):
Gorne went to war and she supported him. She waved
his banner. This is not the case in the movies,
by the way, There's no such condition, and Airgorn spends
a lot of his time thinking he doesn't deserve the power,
like even want it. Irwin is the one who has
complete faith in him and is trying to build him up.
(08:17):
She gives him her even star necklace as a reminder, which,
by the way, I do have that necklace. And here's
a quote, I would rather share one lifetime with you
than face all of the ages of this world alone.
That's from the first movie. And speaking of the first movie,
she was the one to safely transport Proto to Rivendell,
(08:41):
and she faced down the ringways Slash Nasgule to do it.
There's a very epic river flooding scene and she wields
a fancy sword. She was not the one to do
it in a book. In the book, this was a
movie only thing.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
She also vibes Aragorn via a vision, which she also
didn't do in the books. But when he falls and
he's like drowning, she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes,
that's the Okay, that's one way to put it. Apparently,
Originally in the Two Towers of the movie, she was
(09:20):
supposed to fight alongside Aragorn at Helm's Deep, the big
fight scene at the end, but they scrapped it and
instead her father shows her a future of sadness if
she gives up immortality, and she later has a vision
of the sun she would have with Aragorn, and then
it's implied that she was ill or something and that
(09:43):
her fate was intertwined with the fate of the One Ring.
I read a lot of interesting things about this. I
guess I've never really thought about it too much, but
a lot of people were like, her dad was manipulating
her by not showing her the whole truth, so manipulating
Eric Gorn by not telling him the whole truth. So
(10:04):
if you want to read into that discourse, it does exist.
But yeah, they did definitely change their plans, and you
can read some interesting interviews about why they did. Once
ari Gorn succeeded in his quest, Arwin met him in
Minas Tarif and the two married and they became She
(10:26):
became Queen of the United Kingdom. She gave her spot
on the ship sailing to the Blessed Realms Staffrodo, and
she and Aragorn had a son and a few daughters.
She died of her broken heart soon after air Gorn did,
at the ripe age of two thousand, nine hundred and one.
(10:48):
But they I think he lived until about ninety. Oh
that doesn't make sense, because he.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Was like ready like seventy yeah something, sixty something something.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Because they said they ruled together for one hundred and
twenty years.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, so he because he's he being a part of
the clan.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
He was ages slowly as.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Well, so he like he lived a long life. And
then she she went back to her home and was
so like haunted by memories. She laid down and just
was like, I'm good, this is the end for me.
(11:33):
But again, like it's it's difficult because the books and
the movies have sort of differing point of views here,
but yeah, that's that's sort of her story. She has
appeared in a couple of video games and some extended
universe stuff, but generally but not as much, not as
(11:58):
much as you would think for how important they've made
her to Aragorne's story. That does bring us to some
of the tropes because I think there are some very
(12:19):
familiar tropes here. I when I saw this movie, how
old would I have been? Maybe middle school, high school?
But I thought, like, especially her scene with the river,
I thought it was so cool. I thought that was
like awesome. And after that, you know, she does become
(12:43):
more of a more of a like in a distance,
let me wake you up from dying or something like that.
But I did really like the character. But at the
same time, it is a lot of the tropes around
her are like her dad deciding when or if she
(13:06):
can get married. I mean, you can argue that in
the movies at least she does, like she makes the decision,
and she does argue her case, and he does. It's
not like giving up your immortality is a pretty big deal.
So it's not that he shouldn't have opinions about it,
(13:32):
I guess, especially because it's affected his family, because he
also had that same choice. But that is kind of
a trope of the like, I don't think you should
do that, and this is the tragedy that will occur
if you do be ready to deal with this. I guess.
(13:54):
You know, you could say, yeah, you should know what
you're getting into. But also it how often this kind
of thing comes up. I was kind of reminded of
Twilight is sort of the she has to decide if
she's gonna be a vampire and like live forever or
(14:19):
a stay human and just those kind of big decisions. Also,
you know, this is her giving up her immortality for
her man, which is a big trope. I think you
could get into a lot about your thoughts about the
(14:41):
worth of living forever versus living with somebody that you
really care about, and sharing that life with them, But
that's definitely a trope of like she did give up
a pretty big thing to be with them. Yeah, overall,
(15:05):
I have to say, I feel like air Gorn and
Irwin's relationship was healthier in the movies, but I mean
in the book she was still she was still very
supportive of him, and uh, you know, I think it's
(15:32):
more just how you get to see it. Like one
of the articles I was reading was saying, you know,
the tale of our air Gorn and Arwin in the
appendix of Lord of the Rings does have these elements,
but who's necessarily reading the appendix And also just the
(15:54):
way they spread it out and the movies makes their
relationship seem more powerful, more meaningful, instead of just like
this one story you read at the end right of
an appendix.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
I mean, it feels very like timing of Tolkien and
his little society of like the little care they had
of women anyway, but they did need to put it
in there. But if they're going to make them a
part of the story, then they got to make them grandiose,
like the daughter or the niece of a quaint king.
(16:29):
And you know, like they had to be a big
character because outside of that and they're really just there.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, so it makes sense to what it was.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
And then like, I can't remember because I know you're
not taking talking about Owen, but was there a romance
between Owen and air Gorne Inn the book?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I just remember really being annoyed by this plotline, this
forced romance between them.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
There was a I think there was some like a
unresive all tension between them. I know what you're talking about, right,
because she wanted to be a warrior and she saw
him as a warrior, and so she felt that camaraderie
(17:15):
with him. I don't know because I haven't read it
in so long, but I can't remember if it was
meant to be like, oh he's got doubts.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
There's a triangle, a triangle that is always forced. I
couldn't remember, but yeah, I do remember loving the scene
of her rescuing photo really odd line of oh did
I catch a ranger off his guard? I was like,
that's such a weird like line in this entire like
(17:44):
aged tail.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, but no, I get it. But yeah, I feel
like her.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I love the way they protracted her as more of
a fighter and it's involved then rather than just the
possibility of something to come home to. Essentially it wasn't interesting.
And then also the the reason to fight kind of
the additional reason to fight because in the movie he
kind of gives up because he doesn't want to go
(18:16):
see those who have died, the ghosts of the fallen
soldiers who portrayed the king. But like that was the
one catalyst that pushed him to become claiming the king
or whatever kingdom or whatnot. But it is interesting to
see the throwback to who was seen as essential in
the storytelling because I again, I know you're not going
(18:40):
to talk about Owen, but she did take on that
stride a little more of that rebellion and wanting to
be a leader, to be called a leader and be
seen as a leader, end up being a wife in yeah,
bringing two kingdoms together, but whatever, we're gonna go with that,
but yeah, it I have never read The Hobbit either,
(19:04):
so I can't really say to like the origin stories
of some of these things. But also, like again, I
did not read the Appendix either, as much as I
loved but that's that's where Tolkien is kind of like,
this is where the major details are that you're missing
out on that.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That seems very token esque. Yes, you really cared. You
will dig here.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You don't know who the great great great grandfather of
this dwarf is. What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
The detail about lineage, which yes, could be said about
something as well as the landscape that he has is
sense very well.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Technically, Eric Gorn and Irwin are related.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
That makes sense. I don't know why, but that feels right.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
But very very distantly, like over like a thousand years.
But yes, just speaking of lineage, I didn't know that
until I was doing the researcher this. Oh okay, all right, okay, yeah, no, no,
we're definitely gonna have to come back and talk about
(20:09):
Aowen because I totally forgot that she was essentially scolded
for killing the ring right there, like women don't do that,
and it was in the book. I just completely forgot.
So yeah, exactly exactly. But this is what we have
(20:31):
to say about Rowin for now. But if you do
have any other thoughts or anything that.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
We missed, we're going to get some. We're gonna get
some thoughts. I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Gosh me too, I'm very interested. I'm very interested. Well,
please let us know. You can email us at Hello
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As always to our super produced Christine, our executive Rusa,
(21:04):
and your contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to you
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out the heart Radio app Apple podcast wherever you listen
to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steffan
never told you Protection of by Heart Radio, and welcome
to another sub sub sub sub sub segment of fictional
women around the world, and today first one of the year.
(00:29):
There was a lot of pressure, Samantha, and I'm going
to talk about that for a second. But today we
are finally tackling a Lord of the Rings character. We
have not done it yet, not the one that I
originally intended though, as I told Samantha, because I originally
meant to do Aowen, the feminist papers on her were
(00:54):
too many for me to handle. So we are just
going to table that for now, and instead we're talking
about our when even Star I can't do the Elvish,
do not come at me. I'm not going to do
her last name in Elvish, but it translates to even Star. Uh.
You know. Actually, the last time I watched Lord of
(01:16):
the Rings is with you, and it was when we
were in La at a conference. Oh yeah, and I
broke my laptop.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yep, that exactly. It has.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
It's like a comfort show because I just recently watched
it again. My partner's family loves loves this tale. We
even played a card game based on it. It was
actually really good to go on different missions and you
have to do it together or you fail as a whole,
you know, as the Fellowship essentially, and it follows the
(01:49):
book and not the movie, so there's a lot of components.
Was that's very disappointed on some of the things that
were left out of the movie, even though the movie
was really great, great adaptation. So us here are nerds
with the Lord of the Rings trilogy and Tolkien fans
just watched it once again. Like I said, I am
on my rewatch of the Return of the Key, there
(02:12):
was conversation about going to the theaters.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
We didn't make it, but big fans, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I am also a big fan. I do have
a strange thing that happens to me when I love
something I specifically from a certain time of my life,
that it's almost painful for me to rewatch. So I
haven't I don't engage in rewatches that much, but that
(02:42):
the Lord of the Rings movie, the Lord of the
Rings movies are back in theaters right now and they're
doing very well. And I was reminiscing on about how
much I did love them as a kid, I would
go to midnight showings. I would run to the best seats.
This was before where you got a sign seats and
they would just like raise the ear. Yes, we would run.
(03:08):
I had like the glowing Lord of the Ring goblets
that you could get from Burger King. I still have them.
I had a fancy copy of all the books. I
named my cat Arwin. I really just like the name,
but apparently it means noble maiden. Yes, and my dad
(03:29):
loved Lord of the Rings. He was always talking to
me about it. This was a big like bonding thing
for us. I did read the books. I read The
Hobbit and the Similarian and Samantha and I have talked
about our book it slash accelerated reading experiences, but they
(03:49):
are a lot of points you could get for reading those. Sure, yes,
but Tolkien is pretty daunting, Like everything he wrote was
pretty daunting, and there's just so much very specific war.
So I'm going to do my best here. Also kind
of famously, not a lot of women involved, and those
(04:13):
who are typically defined by their relation to men, as
in the wife, the mother, the sister, which we'll talk
a little bit about with Rowin. I almost did glad
Real too, but with the new Amazon show, it was
making my head hurt. So that's another thing we're gonna
have to do later. And also, I'll say a lot
(04:35):
of the depictions of women are more empowered, even if
only a little, in the newer live action stuff, compared
to the books, so we are going to talk about
the differences there. It's been a long time since I
have read the books, and this is why aoen that
(04:56):
it's going to have to be a whole bigger episode
because when I was doing my like, first, oh, we
should do an episode on this, and people are like,
do you remember this happened in the books, I was like,
oh no, I didn't. Okay, I'm gonna have to look
into that. Though author J. R. R. Tolkien once said
the story of Arwen and Aragorn is essential, the tale
(05:19):
of Airgorn and Arwin appeared in the appendix of The
Lord of the Rings, and from what I understand, she
is not in it much. But I can't recall that either,
even though I know I did read it, so all right.
Arwen Evenstar is played by liv Tyler in the live
action films. She is the half elf daughter of Lord
(05:42):
el Rond, and Lady Celebrian. Her family is well off
and well regarded. She is the granddaughter of Galadriel. She's
like very connected. She's like a famous self. We'll say.
She was born in the Elvish city riven Dell, and
she spent a good chunk of her time either there
(06:04):
or in Lothorian with Galadriel. Because she is half alf
she gets to decide if she wants immortality or not,
which is a big part of her story. Another thing
that is a big part of her story is her
mother was captured, tortured, and poisoned by orcs, something that
el Rond was able to heal physically. You kind of
(06:25):
see that in the movies, but she never truly recovered,
and she went on the boats to the Blessed Realm,
which I've always presumed be heaven, but I guess it's
up for interpretation. When Arwin was over two thy seven
(06:46):
hundred years old, she met a twenty year old man
named Aragorn while he was staying at riven Dell, and
it was love at first sight for him. He mistook
her for like a mythical Elvis, and he just thought
she was the most beautiful thing. And talk about an
age gap, although she is actually pretty young for an elf.
(07:11):
Most elves are much older than that, And in case
you don't know and this universe, elves don't age the
same as humans and are usually described as almost a
theorially beautiful, and she was described as amongst the most beautiful.
She's like the Helen of Troy of the elves. So
(07:32):
about thirty years later from this meeting, Ara Gorn and
Rowin meet again and promise themselves to each other. However,
this meant that Rowin was choosing to give up her
immortality by not sailing into the Blessed Realms and remaining
with Ara Gorn instead, something her father wouldn't permit until
Aragorn became the king of Gondor and Arnor. So Ara
(07:56):
Gorne went to war and she supported him. She waved
his banner. This is not the case in the movies,
by the way, There's no such condition, and Airgorn spends
a lot of his time thinking he doesn't deserve the power,
like even want it. Irwin is the one who has
complete faith in him and is trying to build him up.
(08:17):
She gives him her even star necklace as a reminder, which,
by the way, I do have that necklace. And here's
a quote, I would rather share one lifetime with you
than face all of the ages of this world alone.
That's from the first movie. And speaking of the first movie,
she was the one to safely transport Proto to Rivendell,
(08:41):
and she faced down the ringways Slash Nasgule to do it.
There's a very epic river flooding scene and she wields
a fancy sword. She was not the one to do
it in a book. In the book, this was a
movie only thing.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
She also vibes Aragorn via a vision, which she also
didn't do in the books. But when he falls and
he's like drowning, she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes,
that's the Okay, that's one way to put it. Apparently,
Originally in the Two Towers of the movie, she was
(09:20):
supposed to fight alongside Aragorn at Helm's Deep, the big
fight scene at the end, but they scrapped it and
instead her father shows her a future of sadness if
she gives up immortality, and she later has a vision
of the sun she would have with Aragorn, and then
it's implied that she was ill or something and that
(09:43):
her fate was intertwined with the fate of the One Ring.
I read a lot of interesting things about this. I
guess I've never really thought about it too much, but
a lot of people were like, her dad was manipulating
her by not showing her the whole truth, so manipulating
Eric Gorn by not telling him the whole truth. So
(10:04):
if you want to read into that discourse, it does exist.
But yeah, they did definitely change their plans, and you
can read some interesting interviews about why they did. Once
ari Gorn succeeded in his quest, Arwin met him in
Minas Tarif and the two married and they became She
(10:26):
became Queen of the United Kingdom. She gave her spot
on the ship sailing to the Blessed Realms Staffrodo, and
she and Aragorn had a son and a few daughters.
She died of her broken heart soon after air Gorn did,
at the ripe age of two thousand, nine hundred and one.
(10:48):
But they I think he lived until about ninety. Oh
that doesn't make sense, because he.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Was like ready like seventy yeah something, sixty something something.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Because they said they ruled together for one hundred and
twenty years.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, so he because he's he being a part of
the clan.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
He was ages slowly as.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Well, so he like he lived a long life. And
then she she went back to her home and was
so like haunted by memories. She laid down and just
was like, I'm good, this is the end for me.
(11:33):
But again, like it's it's difficult because the books and
the movies have sort of differing point of views here,
but yeah, that's that's sort of her story. She has
appeared in a couple of video games and some extended
universe stuff, but generally but not as much, not as
(11:58):
much as you would think for how important they've made
her to Aragorne's story. That does bring us to some
of the tropes because I think there are some very
(12:19):
familiar tropes here. I when I saw this movie, how
old would I have been? Maybe middle school, high school?
But I thought, like, especially her scene with the river,
I thought it was so cool. I thought that was
like awesome. And after that, you know, she does become
(12:43):
more of a more of a like in a distance,
let me wake you up from dying or something like that.
But I did really like the character. But at the
same time, it is a lot of the tropes around
her are like her dad deciding when or if she
(13:06):
can get married. I mean, you can argue that in
the movies at least she does, like she makes the decision,
and she does argue her case, and he does. It's
not like giving up your immortality is a pretty big deal.
So it's not that he shouldn't have opinions about it,
(13:32):
I guess, especially because it's affected his family, because he
also had that same choice. But that is kind of
a trope of the like, I don't think you should
do that, and this is the tragedy that will occur
if you do be ready to deal with this. I guess.
(13:54):
You know, you could say, yeah, you should know what
you're getting into. But also it how often this kind
of thing comes up. I was kind of reminded of
Twilight is sort of the she has to decide if
she's gonna be a vampire and like live forever or
(14:19):
a stay human and just those kind of big decisions. Also,
you know, this is her giving up her immortality for
her man, which is a big trope. I think you
could get into a lot about your thoughts about the
(14:41):
worth of living forever versus living with somebody that you
really care about, and sharing that life with them, But
that's definitely a trope of like she did give up
a pretty big thing to be with them. Yeah, overall,
(15:05):
I have to say, I feel like air Gorn and
Irwin's relationship was healthier in the movies, but I mean
in the book she was still she was still very
supportive of him, and uh, you know, I think it's
(15:32):
more just how you get to see it. Like one
of the articles I was reading was saying, you know,
the tale of our air Gorn and Arwin in the
appendix of Lord of the Rings does have these elements,
but who's necessarily reading the appendix And also just the
(15:54):
way they spread it out and the movies makes their
relationship seem more powerful, more meaningful, instead of just like
this one story you read at the end right of
an appendix.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
I mean, it feels very like timing of Tolkien and
his little society of like the little care they had
of women anyway, but they did need to put it
in there. But if they're going to make them a
part of the story, then they got to make them grandiose,
like the daughter or the niece of a quaint king.
(16:29):
And you know, like they had to be a big
character because outside of that and they're really just there.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, so it makes sense to what it was.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
And then like, I can't remember because I know you're
not taking talking about Owen, but was there a romance
between Owen and air Gorne Inn the book?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I just remember really being annoyed by this plotline, this
forced romance between them.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
There was a I think there was some like a
unresive all tension between them. I know what you're talking about, right,
because she wanted to be a warrior and she saw
him as a warrior, and so she felt that camaraderie
(17:15):
with him. I don't know because I haven't read it
in so long, but I can't remember if it was
meant to be like, oh he's got doubts.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
There's a triangle, a triangle that is always forced. I
couldn't remember, but yeah, I do remember loving the scene
of her rescuing photo really odd line of oh did
I catch a ranger off his guard? I was like,
that's such a weird like line in this entire like
(17:44):
aged tail.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, but no, I get it. But yeah, I feel
like her.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I love the way they protracted her as more of
a fighter and it's involved then rather than just the
possibility of something to come home to. Essentially it wasn't interesting.
And then also the the reason to fight kind of
the additional reason to fight because in the movie he
kind of gives up because he doesn't want to go
(18:16):
see those who have died, the ghosts of the fallen
soldiers who portrayed the king. But like that was the
one catalyst that pushed him to become claiming the king
or whatever kingdom or whatnot. But it is interesting to
see the throwback to who was seen as essential in
the storytelling because I again, I know you're not going
(18:40):
to talk about Owen, but she did take on that
stride a little more of that rebellion and wanting to
be a leader, to be called a leader and be
seen as a leader, end up being a wife in yeah,
bringing two kingdoms together, but whatever, we're gonna go with that,
but yeah, it I have never read The Hobbit either,
(19:04):
so I can't really say to like the origin stories
of some of these things. But also, like again, I
did not read the Appendix either, as much as I
loved but that's that's where Tolkien is kind of like,
this is where the major details are that you're missing
out on that.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That seems very token esque. Yes, you really cared. You
will dig here.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You don't know who the great great great grandfather of
this dwarf is. What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
The detail about lineage, which yes, could be said about
something as well as the landscape that he has is
sense very well.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Technically, Eric Gorn and Irwin are related.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
That makes sense. I don't know why, but that feels right.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
But very very distantly, like over like a thousand years.
But yes, just speaking of lineage, I didn't know that
until I was doing the researcher this. Oh okay, all right, okay, yeah, no, no,
we're definitely gonna have to come back and talk about
(20:09):
Aowen because I totally forgot that she was essentially scolded
for killing the ring right there, like women don't do that,
and it was in the book. I just completely forgot.
So yeah, exactly exactly. But this is what we have
(20:31):
to say about Rowin for now. But if you do
have any other thoughts or anything that.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
We missed, we're going to get some. We're gonna get
some thoughts. I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Gosh me too, I'm very interested. I'm very interested. Well,
please let us know. You can email us at Hello
at Stuffmenever Told You dot com. You can find us
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As always to our super produced Christine, our executive Rusa,
(21:04):
and your contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to you
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