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June 13, 2024 19 mins

It's Pride month, and there's a lot of talk about animals and the 'natural order' by those against the LGBTQ+ community. But at its heart, this argument ignores reality, is ultimately pointless, and ignores some pretty cool stuff.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
I welcome to staff. I never told you protection of
iHeart Radio, and today welcome to another edition of Happy Hour.
As always, if you are drinking or whatever you're doing,
please do so responsibly. Are you sipping on anything, Samantha.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
I am sticking with my water because I have decided
I've been dehydrated and need more of that in my life.
Hydration not dehydration.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, I was the I don't know listeners have heard
about this, but the city of Atlanta had a major
water issue, a lot of water rain breaks, and I
was in it. And it was funny because I have
so many issues at my apartment, which by the way,
I need to update you, Samantha on my car drama

because there is more. There is more. But I thought
it was just my apartment breaking down. Again, it turns
out with like a city wide issue and you're like, Okay,
I went all the store to get water and there
was no water. So I'm also I'm recovering because I
drink a lot of water and so like did not

have it. But I also went home that would get
as the same weekend I went home, so I missed
like the good chunk of it. But anyway, that being said,
I'm drinking wine. Yes, yes, you know, and there's no water,
you go for the wine, I guess. So today for

the half hour, since it is Pride month and I
have been thinking about a lot of things around that lately.
I mentioned something in our recent Feminis Around the World
episode that we did which was on me, and I
was very shy and embarrassed. Great things, But one thing

I mentioned in there is something I wanted to come
back and talk about, and well, actually, there are a
couple things. There are a couple of things I want
to revisit. One is that I said in there that
I feel really settled, which I do that I feel
like one of the issues I'm running into now is
other people don't feel settled with me, and so they're

like embarrassed for me, or they feel like they have
to explain me, and I like, I'm good, you don't
have to, you know, talk about it. It's all right.
So that is something I've run into a couple times.
And most of the time it's really sweet, like it's
like genuinely coming from a good place. But sometimes I'm like, nah,
don't worry about it. Don't have you don't have to
do that. And also when I was talking in there

about like the kind of head turn people do to me,
now I feel like this is something like a lot
of people experience of like marginalized communities. If you're feminist,
if the people know you're feminists in the head turn.
I think what's interesting to me about this is that
I was like pro gay rights, but now people know

I'm gay, and so it's sort of like a strange
It's just a difference. It's just a little bit of
a difference that I'm having to adjust to. But one
of the things I mentioned in there in passing, but
I really did want to come back and talk about,
is this thing that I mentioned about gay animals Samantha right,

because there was this documentary that came out and conservatives
were up in arms about it about how it was propaganda. Again,
I have not seen it. I can't speak to it,
but I can tell you that I have numerous memories

of people telling me the animal Kingdom doesn't have queer animals,
there are no gay animals, therefore humans can't be gay.
It's like the natural order is that you it's heterosexual
and everything else is devient because we can look to
the Animal Kingdom and look, they are not having gay sex. Well,

it turns out they are. But the thing is, like
I also even if that wasn't the case, I just would.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Appreciate weird comparison in general, like.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Why animals do a lot of things people don't do right,
the like animal Kingdom is weird, wild, fascinating, terrifying, and
a lot of it is just not stuff that humans
do right. And so I don't think that that should

necessarily be your reasoning when you're like, oh, you can't
be gay because listen the animals. I've done all my
research and I've never found a gay animal, which you
definitely haven't.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
You did no research there. You just want to pretend no.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
And that does come up in a lot of things,
like I know we've all experienced this in one way
or another where people would use examples from the Animal
Kingdom to make some kind of point about how women
are weaker, for example, when again, as you and I
talked about, it's a lot of instances in the Animal Kingdom.
If we're going to go down that path of that

not being the.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Case, that's not true.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yes, yes, and I did get a kick out of
I know I wrote about this in her book. I've
mentioned it before, but one of the first times I
heard the term asexual was in the nineteen ninety eight
film Godzilla. And recently I watched a new movie not

a sponsor under Paris and spoilers, I guess the shark
can reproduce without a male.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Oh this is the one, you were like, It's actually
pretty good.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
I liked it. I really liked it. It's really interesting
given the Olympics are coming up and everything that's going
on with that. But uh, it was I was kind
of watching it like, well, don't need a man according
to this. If I'm looking to the animal.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Kingdom based on this, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, yeah, but it's interesting how prevalent that response has been.

Speaker 1 (06:44):

Speaker 2 (06:44):
And also like even my mom she asked me about
it because she was like a lot of her conservative
friends will say that, and she was like kind of
confused by it, and I was like, it doesn't really matter.
I mean, maybe animals. It sounds like, you know, they
do get up to all kinds of stuff, But even
if they didn't, I just don't think this is the

This is the conversation that we should be having, right,
It's fascinating to me that how many people like to
do that, And it does go back to so many
of those kind of like natural order things. But when
you break down those natural order things, so many often
they are constructed like social order things, Like I feel

like the same people would make the same argument about
like the woman should stay home and take care of
her the kids, and the man should go out in
this very heteronormative way because that's the natural order, when
that's not the case, and even like looking into humanity,
that's not the case everywhere and hasn't been the case everywhere.

It's just that people like to make that argument of
this is the way it should be based on nature,
like this is just how we are, And it's a
it's a strange argument to have with someone because yes,
usually they have not they're not scientists, they haven't really

done any of the research around that. If they see
things that contradict their points, then they're they ignore it.
But also, yeah, I kind of don't want to be
arguing with you about like how dogs have sex, like
that's just not the life I want to.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Lead, right, Also talking about how like some male species
eat the offspring, Like what where are we going with this?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Bro, Like, I just don't think this is I don't
think this is helpful, right, And it's just, Yeah, it's

strange because I feel like some people, like some people
in this case being the people making that argument, like
being compared to animals or like in nature. But so
many times I just have these questions for you about, well,

you know a lot of animals don't live in your
air conditioned house with your food you buy from the.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Store, Like I don't have apposable thumbs.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, Like I don't think we can carry this out,
you know, the way that you want to carry it out.
But that kind of goes back to also this thing
about kind of cosplaying. We talked about this with Bridget
briefly about kind of cosplaying as the the farmer or
the person who can live off the land when it
comes to tradwives or something like that, when that's a

really romanticized like they have people helping them, they do
have a job, they have all of these other things.
So I feel like the comparison to well, look how
this animal did it, You're not that animal.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
They don't believe in the conception of God and Jesus,
like they don't worship anywhere. They don't like for those
who are conservative churches who really want to go to
this route. And you're like, well, you want to take
this picture of what you've seen in the Bible where
the sheep and all these animals bow quote unquote to do.
That's not a thing, like that's an art piece. And

as much as you want to pretend like they definitely
you can't see whether or not they actually have whatever
you think is a sole spiritual aspect of them like
that that's not necessarily a part of their thing. They
don't go and build churches and then get money and
then try to build more onto the church. So this
is like a weird flex for you to be like,

this is the standard of humanity, yeah, when they're not humans.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah. And it's also just it goes back to the
point we've made several times because I feel like the
argument underlying it is both like this is natural the
natural thing, which again does ignore that animals do engage
in gay activity, but also that sex is for reproduction,

which we know even outside of the queer community is
not the case. There are multiple reasons why that is
not the case, that to me, just doesn't make any
sense because people have sex. If you wanted to have
a baby every time you had sex, Like, I can't

even fathom. Either you're not having that much sex or
you're having way too many kids. I don't know. So
the argument just doesn't work for me. But they, I'm
telling you, I come across a surprising amount and I
just can't get them to see past that, right.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
And the level of like, again, we have people who
are not able to conceive, whether it's due to fertility
issues or things like that, or whether it's because they're
getting older and fertility issues or they just have like
it's just not a possible thing. Are they also forbidden

forever from sex, not sex just also not being married,
not like if that's not allowed for them, like they
are now ostracized from that part of the livelihood. Then
you know, shouldn't we have other conversations about this, because
again that doesn't make sense. Also a reminder we should
all be naked, I guess, I mean, which comes into

a whole of a conversation because they also oppose that
they're like put on more clothes dimmitt.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Well, and again I'm thinking of a specific group of
people here. They also don't believe in evolution, which makes
sense given, but if you're thinking more like animals, but
you're also saying we're not anything.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Like we are higher beings.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, it's just the level of dissonance I don't understand.
And also I feel a lot of people using this
argument use it for well, that's why you know, boys
will be boys, because it's in their nature. So it
is almost a strange card of saying, well, this is

why men want sex so much, need sex so much
in some cases, it's like their animal nature and women don't,
which is also not true. But they're like using that
mindset to justify that as well.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Right, But also for that to be justified the usage
of medication to help these men who should be this
virile whenever what and whatnot because I can't do it
naturally is also against all the rest of this conversation,
which they are like they never ever really complain about

and are like, yeah, absolutely, well that's would be a
part of life.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Hey, yeah, yeah, And it's I just have so many
I know no one here is surprised. I'm not surprised either,
but it's just so frustrating. It like all of the

hypocrisy I hear when I hear this based on other
things that they say. And it is true that nature
is amazing. It does have examples of all kinds of
queer behavior, and I think that's really cool. I think
we can acknowledge that and not use it to justify

the existence of that in humans.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Right, There's so many things to be said about why
they really really oppose something, and they need to find
reasons other than the fact that they just it disrupts
their belief system in a way that says that they
are not the moral all out being that gets to

rule on right and wrong. Like it's just this whole
level of like, Okay, this allows me to be judgmental
in a way that I can say is science, but
it's not science.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right, And if you give them the science, then they
don't want they don't believe it exactly. I'm sorry if
this was a bit of a mess. Listeners, My thoughts
are all over the place with it because I just
can't every time I try to like figure out what
they're thinking on one thing. Again, I'm actually thinking of

a very specific group of people in my life. Then
they do something I'm like, but don't you see that.
I can't argue with you, right because it doesn't None
of this makes sense, none of this.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
The hypocrisies, and I think it's just again like the
black and white that they live in that doesn't exist,
that never existed, and they're realizing that what they have
learned and what they have tried to live their life by,
or what they think they needed to live that life by,
when it gets shaken and there's a hole or any

of that, then they doubled down in a way that
they are enable to have any alternate conversation or any
other way of listening or hearing or thinking, because they
need to just find what they need to back up
their own own conversations or own beliefs without actually looking

for it, like they just want someone to validate them.
And then if someone lives in a lifestyle or if
something is disproven, then they have to find a way
to block that out completely to protect themselves from being wrong.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah. Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot too,
about there's some people that it doesn't matter, like you're
never going to change your minds, right, and it's it's
sad because you want to or like you don't want
to give up on them completely, but you're just there.
It's almost like a value they've chosen is I will

never ever change this, right.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
And so, and they would rather lose someone that was
like someone like I'm just thinking in general with families,
like they would rather lose someone than to backtrack and
think about the actual reality hid the things that they
say or think.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, well I hope this made sense? Is I
think it?

Speaker 1 (18:10):
I think it fits the narrative pretty well, like because
it's sampling that the reasoning, the conversations, the rationalization, the judgment.
I think it's chaotic in general. So this is the
best you can do and try to feel like what.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, because I was just trying to keep track of
like their thoughts and I couldn't uh wait wait no, okay, okay, okay, Well, listeners,
if any of you have any thoughts about this, if
you have your favorite queer behavior and an animal I

actually do really like that stuff. I just don't think
it should be like our what we turn to right
for humanity, but I do like that stuff. Uh yeah,
please right, and let us know. You can email us
at stephaniemomstuh atiheartmedia dot com. You can find us on
Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram and TikTok

at Stuff We Never Told You. Also, yes, we are
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you would like to re enter for this time, then
please re enter. We also have a tea public store
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our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you
and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told
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