August 20, 2026 • 10 mins
While the popular internet slang 'gay panic' is lighthearted, the history of its usage is quite a bit darker.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Okay, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm welcome to stuff I never told you inflection of iHeartRadio,
and welcome to another edition of Happy Hour. As always,
if you're choosing to drink or what if you're choosing
to do, please do so responsibly. Samantha, are you sipping
(00:27):
on anything?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I have my bubbly water right next to me, keeping
me alive.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Great love that, thank you?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I have some rose.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It's been hot.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, it is incredibly hot. I've been waking up hot
in bed and that's like one of my least favorite things.
I don't like it at all.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Are you sweating?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Sometimes? Sometimes? Menopause? Heard the perimenopause, whisperer. I feel like
you've told multiple of my friends that they might have perrymenopause.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I've never told any of your friends that they have
peri menopause. I haven't scene dumb enough.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I think the telephone method. We're all saying, oh, my
friend experiences this, and you're like.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Oh, fair, I'm not being fair. I'm not be fair.
You're right, You're right to be fair. We are of age.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We are of age.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes, yes, keep going, keep going, but bloody times that
means Jose for me, it does sometimes, but we are
of age, but we still like to have fun and
we like to have fun with you listeners where we can.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So just a reminder, it is coming up. We are
going on a voyage with our friends at Virgin Voyages.
We are taking a trip from New York to Bermuda.
Other podcasts, stuff you should know and stuff they don't
want you to know. We'll be there and we're going
to do a live podcast. They're going to be events
(02:03):
that we're going to be a part of and we're
just gonna be hanging out. You can come and just
talk with us, have a happy hour with us. It's
adults only. So I'm excited. I'm very excited. We've been
talking about topics and we think that we've landed on
what we're going to discuss and it's gonna be fun
and so please come along. We would love to see you.
(02:27):
If you want to learn more, go to virgin voyages
dot com slash stuff and let us know if you're
going so we could meet up. So this happy hour
does come with the content warning. We're going to be
talking about some violence and death. Very briefly. I wasn't
(02:53):
anticipating this to go the way that it did, but
I want to talk about it because you listeners know,
I'm still going through all of these topics about being
queer abated that I have on an outline. There's a
whole outline everybody and I have learned a lot. That's
(03:15):
the silver lining of this whole thing is I have
learned quite a lot. And one thing I absolutely didn't
know and that we should do a full episode on
is the legal history of the gay panic defense. So
since this is a happy Hour, we're only going to
go over the basics, but yes, we should do a
(03:36):
full episode one day. I'm very familiar with the lighthearted
Internet usage of the term gay panic. Essentially, it is
when someone feels some sort of gay attraction and panics.
You're flustered and embarrassed. It's usually really cute. It's very
rom calm level. This can be from someone who's closeted
(03:56):
or isn't and usually results in clumsiness and hilarity. But
I have seen it written very angstily. Sometimes I often
mix it up with disaster gay, which is a similar trope.
It's very sweet, it's very cute. It's nice because it's normalized.
It's a gay relationship, but it's totally normalized. But a
(04:20):
lot of the original uses of this phrase are pretty
dark now. Homosexual panic the mental disorder was first coined
in the nineteen twenties and was used to describe so
called perverse tendencies or cravings of the sexual nature that
were said to be uncontrollable. Some variation of this remained
(04:43):
in the DSM five until twenty thirteen. Early attempts to
explaining this so called disorder penneded on like enclosed same
sex settings like camps, like spaces where it was all
same sex people. Not true, I hope, obviously, But yeah,
(05:05):
not true. But this brings us to the gay panic
slash homosexual panic slash trans defense. In simplest terms, this
is a victim blaming legal defense wherein a heterosexual person
charged with a violent crime against a same sex attracted
person argues that they reacted violently after an unwanted sexual advance.
(05:29):
This defense is usually deployed to get a lesser sentence
or acquittal, even in cases of violence and murder. By
the way, the person question may not even be gay.
The person who was attacked just perceived to be so
the trans defense is very, very similar. Gay Panic defense
first started showing up in the nineteen sixties in the US,
(05:52):
which was a time when more gay people were living
more outwardly in this country. It relied on the historic,
inaccurate idea that queer people didn't exist before then, so
this was a new thing and we should be very
worried about it. Here's a quote from lgbtqbar dot org.
The goal of the strategy is to employ homophobia and
(06:14):
transphobia to persuade a jury and to fully are partially
acquitting the defendant, whether or not this appeal to bigotry
is successful in court. Every time a defendant invokes the
LGBDQ plus panic defense, they reinforce the dangerous and discredited
belief that LGBTQ plus lives are worth less than others.
(06:34):
There are multiple instances of this happening, and all of
them are as upsetting as you'd imagine, like truly truly awful.
Here's a quote from a Refinery twenty nine article called
Let's Talk about Gay Panic by Quinn Rhoades. The horrific
violence later justified by the gay and trans panic defense
(06:54):
comes from the need to prove one is not queer.
A recent example of this is the killing of Daniel
Spencer by his neighbor, James Miller in twenty fifteen. During
the trial, Miller claims that he rejected a sexual advance
from Spencer and had attacked him in self defense, even
though physical evidence showed he was never in danger. Miller
was only convicted of criminally negligent homicide, which carries a
(07:17):
lighter punishment than murder or manslaughter. Harry Ann, who is
clear and transfemme, explains from her perspective, trans panic is
the fear that someone will be sexually interested in me,
realize I'm not sis, then feel an embarrassed and aggressive
need to assert their heterosexuality by abusing me verbally or physically.
(07:38):
Can you imagine your masculinity being so fragile that you
feel the need to murder a transwoman who you found
attractive just to reaffirm that you are straight?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Uh? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So this defense is still legal in many states, despite
the fact that many argue it is a hate crime.
Research suggests that the defense works in some fashion about
one third at the time. Several states have eliminated it, though,
and organizations like lgbtqbar dot org are pushing to get
rid of it altogether. We've mostly been discussing the US today,
(08:14):
but other countries have similar laws. So listeners write in
if you if you want us to talk about that.
I do think we should come back and delve into
this more in depth. But yeah, I think that quote
from the Refinery twenty nine article sums it up really well.
(08:34):
But the fact that this is a defense and that
you would someone potentially would feel such a need to
prove they're not okay. Yeah, uh, that's we've got a
ways to go. We've got a ways to go. Yeah,
(08:57):
So I'm glad to know this. It is so different
than the internet usage of gay panic. So hopefully now
now we all know there is this dark history and
other meaning because it is such a fun term moment
in the internet fling.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah yeah, not people, I'm like definitely those moments of
like taking something really dark and trying to not as
they reclaim it, yeah, but like bring some hope in
a way. But yeah, it is, it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting to find this, That's what I'll say.
But I have learned a lot during this queer banning experience.
So here we go. Uh in the you have, Indeed
you have, I really really have, I really have. Well. Well, listeners,
If there's something I missed, or something you want us
(10:02):
to talk about, or any resources we should bring up,
please let us know, listeners. If you would like to
email us, you can. Our email is Hello at Stuffanever
Told You dot com. You can find us on Blue
Sky I'm Almost a podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok
at stuff I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube.
We have some merchandise at comm Bureau, and we have
a book you can get where you get your books.
Thanks as always too, our super producer Remat and our
(10:25):
executive Bruster maya thank you and thanks to you for
listening Stuff and Never Told You in stecture by heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or regular listen
to your favorite shows.
Okay, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm welcome to stuff I never told you inflection of iHeartRadio,
and welcome to another edition of Happy Hour. As always,
if you're choosing to drink or what if you're choosing
to do, please do so responsibly. Samantha, are you sipping
(00:27):
on anything?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I have my bubbly water right next to me, keeping
me alive.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Great love that, thank you?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I have some rose.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It's been hot.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, it is incredibly hot. I've been waking up hot
in bed and that's like one of my least favorite things.
I don't like it at all.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Are you sweating?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Sometimes? Sometimes? Menopause? Heard the perimenopause, whisperer. I feel like
you've told multiple of my friends that they might have perrymenopause.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I've never told any of your friends that they have
peri menopause. I haven't scene dumb enough.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I think the telephone method. We're all saying, oh, my
friend experiences this, and you're like.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Oh, fair, I'm not being fair. I'm not be fair.
You're right, You're right to be fair. We are of age.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We are of age.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes, yes, keep going, keep going, but bloody times that
means Jose for me, it does sometimes, but we are
of age, but we still like to have fun and
we like to have fun with you listeners where we can.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So just a reminder, it is coming up. We are
going on a voyage with our friends at Virgin Voyages.
We are taking a trip from New York to Bermuda.
Other podcasts, stuff you should know and stuff they don't
want you to know. We'll be there and we're going
to do a live podcast. They're going to be events
(02:03):
that we're going to be a part of and we're
just gonna be hanging out. You can come and just
talk with us, have a happy hour with us. It's
adults only. So I'm excited. I'm very excited. We've been
talking about topics and we think that we've landed on
what we're going to discuss and it's gonna be fun
and so please come along. We would love to see you.
(02:27):
If you want to learn more, go to virgin voyages
dot com slash stuff and let us know if you're
going so we could meet up. So this happy hour
does come with the content warning. We're going to be
talking about some violence and death. Very briefly. I wasn't
(02:53):
anticipating this to go the way that it did, but
I want to talk about it because you listeners know,
I'm still going through all of these topics about being
queer abated that I have on an outline. There's a
whole outline everybody and I have learned a lot. That's
(03:15):
the silver lining of this whole thing is I have
learned quite a lot. And one thing I absolutely didn't
know and that we should do a full episode on
is the legal history of the gay panic defense. So
since this is a happy Hour, we're only going to
go over the basics, but yes, we should do a
(03:36):
full episode one day. I'm very familiar with the lighthearted
Internet usage of the term gay panic. Essentially, it is
when someone feels some sort of gay attraction and panics.
You're flustered and embarrassed. It's usually really cute. It's very
rom calm level. This can be from someone who's closeted
(03:56):
or isn't and usually results in clumsiness and hilarity. But
I have seen it written very angstily. Sometimes I often
mix it up with disaster gay, which is a similar trope.
It's very sweet, it's very cute. It's nice because it's normalized.
It's a gay relationship, but it's totally normalized. But a
(04:20):
lot of the original uses of this phrase are pretty
dark now. Homosexual panic the mental disorder was first coined
in the nineteen twenties and was used to describe so
called perverse tendencies or cravings of the sexual nature that
were said to be uncontrollable. Some variation of this remained
(04:43):
in the DSM five until twenty thirteen. Early attempts to
explaining this so called disorder penneded on like enclosed same
sex settings like camps, like spaces where it was all
same sex people. Not true, I hope, obviously, But yeah,
(05:05):
not true. But this brings us to the gay panic
slash homosexual panic slash trans defense. In simplest terms, this
is a victim blaming legal defense wherein a heterosexual person
charged with a violent crime against a same sex attracted
person argues that they reacted violently after an unwanted sexual advance.
(05:29):
This defense is usually deployed to get a lesser sentence
or acquittal, even in cases of violence and murder. By
the way, the person question may not even be gay.
The person who was attacked just perceived to be so
the trans defense is very, very similar. Gay Panic defense
first started showing up in the nineteen sixties in the US,
(05:52):
which was a time when more gay people were living
more outwardly in this country. It relied on the historic,
inaccurate idea that queer people didn't exist before then, so
this was a new thing and we should be very
worried about it. Here's a quote from lgbtqbar dot org.
The goal of the strategy is to employ homophobia and
(06:14):
transphobia to persuade a jury and to fully are partially
acquitting the defendant, whether or not this appeal to bigotry
is successful in court. Every time a defendant invokes the
LGBDQ plus panic defense, they reinforce the dangerous and discredited
belief that LGBTQ plus lives are worth less than others.
(06:34):
There are multiple instances of this happening, and all of
them are as upsetting as you'd imagine, like truly truly awful.
Here's a quote from a Refinery twenty nine article called
Let's Talk about Gay Panic by Quinn Rhoades. The horrific
violence later justified by the gay and trans panic defense
(06:54):
comes from the need to prove one is not queer.
A recent example of this is the killing of Daniel
Spencer by his neighbor, James Miller in twenty fifteen. During
the trial, Miller claims that he rejected a sexual advance
from Spencer and had attacked him in self defense, even
though physical evidence showed he was never in danger. Miller
was only convicted of criminally negligent homicide, which carries a
(07:17):
lighter punishment than murder or manslaughter. Harry Ann, who is
clear and transfemme, explains from her perspective, trans panic is
the fear that someone will be sexually interested in me,
realize I'm not sis, then feel an embarrassed and aggressive
need to assert their heterosexuality by abusing me verbally or physically.
(07:38):
Can you imagine your masculinity being so fragile that you
feel the need to murder a transwoman who you found
attractive just to reaffirm that you are straight?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Uh? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So this defense is still legal in many states, despite
the fact that many argue it is a hate crime.
Research suggests that the defense works in some fashion about
one third at the time. Several states have eliminated it, though,
and organizations like lgbtqbar dot org are pushing to get
rid of it altogether. We've mostly been discussing the US today,
(08:14):
but other countries have similar laws. So listeners write in
if you if you want us to talk about that.
I do think we should come back and delve into
this more in depth. But yeah, I think that quote
from the Refinery twenty nine article sums it up really well.
(08:34):
But the fact that this is a defense and that
you would someone potentially would feel such a need to
prove they're not okay. Yeah, uh, that's we've got a
ways to go. We've got a ways to go. Yeah,
(08:57):
So I'm glad to know this. It is so different
than the internet usage of gay panic. So hopefully now
now we all know there is this dark history and
other meaning because it is such a fun term moment
in the internet fling.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah yeah, not people, I'm like definitely those moments of
like taking something really dark and trying to not as
they reclaim it, yeah, but like bring some hope in
a way. But yeah, it is, it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting to find this, That's what I'll say.
But I have learned a lot during this queer banning experience.
So here we go. Uh in the you have, Indeed
you have, I really really have, I really have. Well. Well, listeners,
If there's something I missed, or something you want us
(10:02):
to talk about, or any resources we should bring up,
please let us know, listeners. If you would like to
email us, you can. Our email is Hello at Stuffanever
Told You dot com. You can find us on Blue
Sky I'm Almost a podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok
at stuff I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube.
We have some merchandise at comm Bureau, and we have
a book you can get where you get your books.
Thanks as always too, our super producer Remat and our
(10:25):
executive Bruster maya thank you and thanks to you for
listening Stuff and Never Told You in stecture by heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or regular listen
to your favorite shows.
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