Into the Omegaverse

The Omegaverse is a polarizing genre of fanficiton that has a lot to say about anxieties around gender dynamics, legislation, women's rights and abortion. We go over some basics and reasons why this genre resonates or infuriates.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie. And Samantha. And welcome to Stuff
I Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio. And today
we are talking about a popular fan fiction trope called
Omegaverse or Alpha Beta Omega or ABO. I'm going to

(00:29):
be largely using ABO. That exists... across all fandoms. This
isn't necessarily a content warning, but I do want to
prepare everyone. We are going to be talking about biological determinism,
themes of sexual assault and autonomy, and just some things
that are an absolute mess to dissect. But give me

(00:55):
the time, and I will dissect it. And it's worth
talking about, I promise. You can learn more about the
history specifically and examples specifically on the episode we did.
It was a book club episode called Dubcon. We did
a whole section about ABO. I also think this is

(01:19):
related to women heart monsters. The episode we did on
that about kind of those romance novels about women wanting
to be with Bigfoot and stuff like that. Yes. Yes.
I'm going to be real with you. This is going

(01:40):
to make a lot of you uncomfortable. And some of
it makes me uncomfortable. But I understand why it exists.
And it has a lot to say about gender dynamics
and how they function in our society. So I am
asking for patience. and understanding, because I really do think

(02:01):
this sheds a light on how people, especially younger people,
and perhaps especially younger women, are interpreting these things, these
gender dynamics, or how they're managing societal and legal structures
that treat women as lesser. And that's what we're going
to get into at the end. We've got to go
through some basics first, but that's what we're going to

(02:23):
talk about. Also, just a heads up, because of the
subject matter, This episode is kind of PG-13-ish. We're not
going to get into detailed stuff, but just to put
that out there. On top of that, there's a lot
of this that's very heteronormative, despite having plenty of queer

(02:45):
relationships and a history of queer relationships. That is something
else we will discuss later. This is more complex of
a topic than we're going to get into now, but
some stories have an added layer of discrimination or complicated
gender dynamics and expectations when it comes to trans characters, too.

(03:07):
But yes, today we are talking about the fanfiction trope
Alpha Beta Omega, or ABO, which, yes, we did discuss
in our book club episode on DEPCOM. If you did
not listen to that episode, Dubcon refers to dubious consent,
which can look a lot of different ways. But in

(03:28):
the case of ABO, it is that your biology is
removing your consent or your ability to make an informed decision. Generally,
ABO can look a lot of ways, which we will
break down. But just know it often involves some elements

(03:49):
of dubious consent. Plenty of people really, really don't like it.
And in some communities, it is called dog f * * *
ing rape world. That being said, there is story after
story about bucking the ABO system. So it's an ABO
story about kind of defying the ABO standards, which we'll

(04:14):
talk about too. Another thing I have read, and on
some occasions enjoyed, ABO fanfiction. But it's not generally my thing.
I can see why it makes people uncomfortable. It frequently
involves inpreg, which is men getting pregnant. Which I like

(04:36):
in terms of men should have to feel like get
pregnant too. Like Alien level, we've talked about this in
our Feminist Movie Friday episode about Alien. the movie. But personally,
that's not something I'm into reading about. Actually, pregnancy in
general is not my thing. And I think as of

(04:59):
a couple years ago, it was like the least favorite
tag on AO3. Archive of Our Own is one of
the biggest fan fiction sites. And it Pregnancy was at
the bottom. That's not what people wanted to read about.
So if I do read ABO, I generally read male-slash-male ABO,

(05:24):
where both characters are either independent, I put in quotes
because we'll talk about that later, or they're fighting the system.
They're not conforming to how their secondary gender looks. I
don't like straight fan fiction. I've discovered this. I have decided.

(05:45):
I think this has been a journey. I've talked it
out with you. I've just decided that I just don't
like it. But I have read women slash women. But
most of where I encounter ABO is men slash men.
I think this was the case for most ABO fanfic
in the early days when the dominant pairing was between

(06:07):
a male alpha and a male omega. But now I
hear about it a lot more with straight couples, too.
I see they're getting up to it much more. So
I know for sure it has grown and evolved since
we last talked about it. On top of that, these
stories are generally smutty. But they don't have to be.

(06:30):
I have read several that are just sweet. Most of
the ones I read don't have sex in them at all.
That is a big thing I keep coming back to
with fanfiction. There is a lot of smut, but there's
a lot that is not. I think it gets the
rap that that's what's happening. That's all that's happening in there,
and that's not true. But, okay, enough stalling. Because I

(06:55):
have put this episode off for a while. If you
listen back to that ABO, to the DubCon episode, I
was like, yeah, we should come back and talk about that.
That was years ago. Years. But all right. What is it?
Where to begin? According to the book DubCon, ABO fanfiction
got its start with supernatural real person fiction. Though it

(07:18):
has pretty obvious roots in bestiality fiction. since a good
chunk of these stories rely at least somewhat on the
behavior and anatomy of wolves or dogs. Yes, so let's
break down some of the basics, and then we'll get
into some specifics and variants. And then to wrap up,
we're going to talk about some of the issues and

(07:39):
anxieties that this trope highlights. First, We need to start
with the secondary genders. This is kind of the whole
basis of the Omegaverse. Alpha, Beta, and Omega. There are

(08:04):
subtypes within these, some of which we'll touch on, but
those are the main ones. We're also talking about mostly
human biology today because it's fan fiction and sometimes people
write about aliens and they have a whole different thing
going on. Tentacle porn. Yeah, sure. Definitely. So, secondary genders.

(08:28):
I'm going to use a lot of broad generalizations here
for what most of ABO looks like, but it can
vary wildly. Generally, there are men, women, and non-binary people
who present a secondary gender around the time of adolescence.
I've always thought about it similar to a period. It

(08:49):
typically involves physical changes and that can be pretty painful
depending on what you're reading. I've even read some that
are body horror level changes, especially for male omegas that
have to essentially grow a uterus and female alphas that
have to grow a penis or some kind of equivalent

(09:10):
of that. In some stories, it's smooth sailing for betas.
But anyway, alphas and omegas, which are usually rarer than betas,
also develop heightened senses and a scent unique to them
that changes based on mood. So if you're angry or scared,

(09:30):
it usually becomes bitter, and everyone else can smell it.
So everyone knows this. Same if you're aroused, embarrassingly. And
I had a good conversation with my friend last night
about what we think our sense would be, because it's not...
It's not your favorite scent. It's what you're... It's supposed

(09:51):
to represent your personality. uh so it's usually alphas are
like pine and smoke and uh an omega is like
the sweetest caramel chocolate freshly baked bread stuff like that
um i haven't landed on an answer i don't know

(10:13):
i don't know but an important question to ask Let
me think. I feel like a lemongrass would be involved.
I think lemongrass would be a great one. I think
lemongrass would be involved for you. Oh, yes. I would
love that. I think so. But this is also like,

(10:34):
then you're asking, where would I? I definitely wouldn't be
an alpha. I would be a beta or an omega.
I'll think about it.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I feel like I'd be a cinnamon. Ooh, cinnamon is good.
Cinnamon is good. It's got like a little spice to it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, yeah. But it's still kind of sweet.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Everybody think about this. It's a fun thought experiment. It is.
So once you get this scent, you can scent people,
which is essentially you're covering them in your scent. which
can be anything from an act of comfort, aggression, or claim.
Another way to claim someone is through a mating bite

(11:25):
on the neck, a typically permanent mark that indicates to
the world that you are taken. Your designation often changes
the way people treat you. And usually, friend and family
groups form packs that look out for each other and
are very protective of each other, However, the implication is

(11:46):
usually that unless the Omega finds a mate within the pack,
they will have to leave the pack one day to
join their most likely new Alpha's pack because there is
usually a head Alpha and a head Omega to run
all of these things. All right. Does that make sense?

(12:06):
Are you with me so far? Yes. All right. Perfect.
So let's get into the secondary genders. starting with alphas,
because they are generally at the top. They are the
most respected. They have the most power, societally speaking. Alphas
are typically men and masculine men at that, and typically

(12:28):
men who are taller and broader. They are associated with
more traditionally masculine traits and behaviors, like aggression and dominance.
They usually take the lead in any courting or sex.
And let me tell you, that courting thing is a
whole process. It's a whole thing. And they are charged
with protecting or controlling their omega. They are viewed as strong,

(12:54):
not to be messed with, unless it's another alpha over
an omega. Then you can get into something. It's usually
pretty possessive and involves an instinctive growling. There are other
behaviors they exhibit too, like the alpha voice, which is
a command voice that they can use to force submission

(13:17):
or abeyance, usually on omegas and betas, not necessarily on
other alphas. It doesn't always work, but it usually does.
In some iterations, there are different classes of alpha, like
prime or an enigma, who have more powerful alpha voices
that can supersede other alphas, then you don't want to

(13:42):
mess with the prime or an enigma. And they're usually
seen as very violent. They're not necessarily violent, but that's
how they're viewed. Also, in the heat of the moment, fun,
sometimes an alpha and omega will refer to each other
as alpha and omega, recognizing their place. So that's what
they'll just call each other. Canine teeth that descend when

(14:04):
they are angry are in the act of placing the
mating bite to There is a lot of posturing between
other alphas in general, so sometimes when teeth come out,
it's like another alpha is in your territory. Teeth come out.
An instinct for chase. This one isn't discussed as much,
but it involves an instinctive need to chase an omega,

(14:27):
especially one in heat, which we'll get into, or one
that the alpha feels they have a claim to or
that they're courting. This is related to the newer alphas
or at least newly more popular hybrid stories, many of
those that are ABO, that involve predator and prey species
like werehares. So that is when you're like a human

(14:53):
hybrid with a bunny, so you have bunny ears, and
then there's that hare, and then there's a wolf hybrid
who has the tail and the ears, the were, and
so predator-prey. Uh-huh. Yes. Finally, alphas experience semi-regular ruts, which

(15:13):
take place over a series of days and involve intense
sexual arousal and physical symptoms like sweating, hot flashes, intensified scent.
Some stories have ruts start not sexual, but they later
become sexual. There's an understanding it will become sexual, whatever
it is. It is when their fertility is at It's highest.

(15:40):
As I said, it can really look a whole host
of ways. Here are just some that I see the most.
And actually, when I was researching this, I, like, not
to toot my own horn, but I'm, like, at the
forefront of, there's not a lot of academic stuff written
about ABO fan fiction, so... You're getting what I have seen, experienced,

(16:05):
and talked to my friends about. Original research. Yes. And
it was discussed in the book Dubcon, but yes. This
is mostly me writing. Oh, oh. So betas. Betas generally
come next in the power structure. And I do apologize
for all the qualifiers in this episode, but when I

(16:28):
say it can look a hundred different ways. That's not
an exaggeration. But in some stories, omegas are above betas.
They're often more prized, at the very least. But in
the simplest terms, betas generally stay the same after they present.
It's sort of a neutral, secondary gender. Sometimes they get

(16:48):
the ability to scent. Sometimes they don't. Most of the
population is usually a beta. And that brings us to omegas.
the traditionally more feminine secondary gender, and I mean that
in a very heteronormative and societal way, but they have
less power in society. They are usually smaller and prettier physically.

(17:12):
They're gentler, and they have the babies and the maternal instincts.
They're more submissive, and in a lot of variants, they
have a mat and a submissive position that from what
I understand, looks a lot like downward dog. So they'll
get on the mat and do that. That being said,

(17:34):
as mentioned at the top, plenty of these stories are
about breaking out of or resisting these norms in which
you get the so-called independent omega. Depending on the story, though,
the omega needs an alpha to tame them, or at
least that is what the alpha thinks. Omegas are usually

(17:57):
virginal and innocent. Not always, but usually. When an omega presents,
they smell sweet and appealing. Their looks usually soften or
somehow become more beautiful. And they become extremely desirable, especially
for alphas. In some fics, male omegas aren't necessarily desirable

(18:19):
and are seen as abominations. In others, they're more desirable.
Omegas are typically viewed as someone or something, honestly, with
how much they're objectified and viewed as baby-making machines to
be hunted, protected, possessed. So in a lot of cases,
this involves them wearing a collar, either forcibly or in

(18:44):
some cases as like a promise ring situation from an
alpha to protect them from a mating bite. or to
claim them in the future. They usually wear soft and
revealing clothes. Well, in a lot of the ones I read,
they don't, but a lot of times they do. And

(19:07):
jewelry essentially being a visual pretty trophy for their alpha
to be proud of. Sometimes it's because the omega likes it,
like likes the jewelry and the soft clothes. And sometimes...
It's like a sign of respect, like the alpha can
provide for you. When we're talking about behaviors, omega's display,

(19:31):
here are a few of the big ones. Nesting. They
have the instinct to nest, which means they will gather
clothing and blankets from loved ones that have their scent
on them and weave those together to form a nest
where they feel safe and comfortable. It is a courtesy
not to enter the nest unless expressly invited. Calming scents.

(19:55):
So they're usually the emotional glue of whatever pack they're
in and they can use their scent to calm emotions. Drops.
And a mega drop is when they basically shut down
in response to danger. They're like a dead body, or
at the very least, a barely functional, extremely distressed body.

(20:20):
It's dangerous. It's a very dangerous thing to come out
of a drop, and Omega needs to feel safe, or
some sort of medical intervention is involved. And Alpha can
foster this feeling of safety using their scent and pheromones,
the nest, and a safe space. Omega headspace is when

(20:42):
an alpha uses their scent and a few other things
to make an omega's mind feel like it's full of
cotton candy, like they can't concentrate or they really can't
function without their alpha. Omegas can also produce a whine,
like a whining sound that alerts people, usually alphas, that

(21:02):
they need help. And finally, heat's Heats are the complement
to alpha's ruts. So heats are a semi-regular time when
omegas experience increased sensitivity and arousal and fertility and produce
something called slick, which is essentially lube. This is a

(21:23):
very vulnerable time for an omega that they typically spend
in their nest. Their scent becomes stronger unless they're wearing
scent patches, um, We'll talk about that more in a second.
That's kind of like a type of birth control. But anyway,
everyone knows that they're in heat unless they're wearing these patches.

(21:46):
And probably even then, honestly. But they also make it
harder to think clearly. Heats do. And they have a
desire for an alpha to not them. N-K-N-O-T. This refers
to how wolf genitalia works. And I'm not going to
go into that. Even I could, but I won't. But

(22:07):
once the knot has expanded inside an omega, they have
to wait for it to deflate and a lot of
sperm is pumped out. Which brings us to babies. All
the babies. Interesting, because as I said, one of the
least popular tags is pregnancy. But there is a huge

(22:27):
breeding kink in the world of ABO. While some stories
treat it as more of a role-play situation, in a
lot of them, the goal is to have babies, and
a lot of babies, like 11 babies. That being said,
we're going to talk about how this reflects on our

(22:48):
views on abortion and pregnancy, but also infertility and people
who don't want kids. That's my brief overview of... The
ABO world. And I'm telling you, this was a very
difficult thing to try to wrangle up. This brings us

(23:08):
to some of the issues that I think it touches
on that I wanted to highlight. One of the main
ones when I think about why I can get uncomfortable
with it is the biological determinism of it. So biological

(23:30):
determinism means that your biology determines behaviors. So instead of
taking into account societal factors and conditioning, biological determinism argues
that it's innate, inherent, scientific, genetic. As you can imagine,
this has been used in a huge range of negative
ways when it comes to eugenics, when it comes to gender, race,

(23:53):
and recently against trans people. So it makes sense that
this is one of the first things people point out
as problematic. And it is. That being said, though there
are plenty that are seemingly critiquing or resisting this determinism,
are at the very least pointing out the dynamic between

(24:17):
alphas and omegas is uneven. So what's so hard to
talk about with this is that I think A lot
of people are struggling to put into words a lot
of conflicting ideas that we've all been raised with. And
then desires and all of these things. And plenty of

(24:40):
stories are touching on that. So you could argue that
some are examples of usually women trying to write out
desires that don't feel feminist. that they wouldn't actually want
in real life, but have been socialized to desire through
our media and society. But that's a little bit more

(25:03):
leaning into what we're talking about next, which is gender.
What I'd say here is that if we're looking strictly
at the biology part, then this commentary, intentionally or not,
on the things that we've all heard, boys will be boys,
they're gonna chase, They can't help themselves because it's in

(25:25):
their genes. It's their biologies. Omegas will submit. They actually
want to submit. That is the natural order of things.
If the omega produces slick, then they want the alpha.
Their scent is a big indicator too. So these really physical,
biological reactions that we're going to come back to in

(25:50):
a second about how that relates to sexual assault. But
this does bring us to gender, which clearly the lines
are a little bit murky here in terms of ABO.

(26:11):
But the main point I want to make clear is
that it's very obvious to me that alphas are generally
men or masculine. and omegas are generally women or feminine.
A lot of this manifests in physicality, how people look,
how tall, how broad, how pretty, in our very societal
norms way. I'm also going to throw this out there,

(26:33):
and it's largely anecdotal. Most people I know, myself included,
connect with the omega in the story. And I think
this is for multiple reasons. One of them is women
and queer folks are largely the ones writing fanfic, And
so I think they connect with omegas more for the
very fact that omegas are marginalized. They do experience these

(26:57):
power dynamics that place them on a lower rung. And
that can be dangerous. So it's a way for working
through those issues and thoughts and just society and what
we deal with. It's interesting that that ABO first grew

(27:17):
within the slash community, which is male slash male, men
with men, because we're projecting masculine and feminine onto men.
But in my experience, it is true. There is one
character that is more traditionally masculine and there's one that's
more traditionally feminine. This brings in a bunch of other

(27:40):
dynamics of how men express emotions and how they are regarded.
by society at large when they do. There are these
clear gender dynamics, and a lot of them you could
guess by demeanor and looks. Like, I feel like I
could just throw out characters and you could guess which
one is the alpha and which one's the omega, like,

(28:02):
at large. Also, just how the characters fit into our
traditional scripts of how a man and woman would act.
Like the omega, more caring, more maternal, softer. But while
prized in terms of being a, quote, good omega, aka
taking care of the alpha and the pack and the babies,

(28:24):
they are still seen as lesser. So it's still this
thing of where we're not giving women's feminine work, traditionally
feminine work, its value. But we're saying, like, in a
lot of these, we're saying, hey, You're so valuable because

(28:45):
you do this thing, take care of the kids. But
outside of that, we're still not going to give you
the money for it. So let's talk about legislation, the
legislation aspect. So in most of these stories, presenting as

(29:05):
an omega means you have less control over your body,
not only because of biology, but because of the laws
and societal beliefs. So in a lot of stories, omegas
face challenges in getting jobs. Like there are laws about
how long they can work, if they can work, in
autonomy in general. And they often need an alpha to

(29:27):
make decisions in an official setting. They get a lot
of shade if they don't have an alpha, or if
they continue to work after they present. This can be complicated.
If you're gendered. does not match up with your secondary gender,
at least as people see it. There are often laws
preventing omegas from controlling their own bodies and their own lives. Money,

(29:52):
the law starts to view them as property of alphas
and baby makers who are too weak to make their
own decisions. They can't receive an education in a lot
of them, dependent on their alpha. So it feels like
very old, like I was going to say 50s, but

(30:12):
I mean, it's just like these old school ideas of
this is where the woman belongs. And I don't know,
like you can't go out and have a job. This
is what you do. You stay in and you raise kids.
I do understand anxieties. This is one of the things.

(30:38):
It's like, I can see where this is coming from.
I can understand the anxiety of men controlling largely women's bodies,
and that is showing up in this type of fanfiction.
In plenty of the stories I've read, this is something
that the characters actively fight, but there are plenty of

(31:00):
stories where the ending is incredibly depressing. Like, nothing has changed.
Maybe the Alpha deceived the Omega. Maybe they both had
to bend to the system to protect the Omega, and
that's how it ends. Like, the system remains in place,
and that's just it. One of the things I've personally

(31:23):
struggled with in these stories, or at least gives me pause...
is there seems to be a huge hang-up about abortion
and childbirth. Usually, the alpha opposes abortion, and they are
the ones who legally get to choose whether their partner
gets it. Even if the alpha defers to the omega,

(31:46):
the establishment and red tape in place defers to the alpha.
So in cases of child care, the alpha gets precedence.
It is assumed an omega with a child, or pup,
as they sometimes call them, has an alpha who makes
the decisions, even if that's not true, even if they're abusive,

(32:09):
all of that stuff. But I will say that because
of the biological determinism aspect, abortion is generally viewed as
a slight to the alpha and against the nature of
the omega. This can be intensified by the psychic bond

(32:30):
sometimes in place, not only between the Alpha and Omega,
but between Omegas and their unborn children. It's pretty common
that pregnancy puts the Omega in danger, not only from
giving birth, but from another competing Alpha. And that the
Alpha essentially places the Omega in bubble wrap when they're pregnant.

(32:56):
Because the whole getting pregnant thing is such a big
part of the omega's identity and worth, there is the
idea of the bad omega who is unable to conceive,
to scent, to submit, usually because of trauma. But here,
I wanted to talk about what that says about miscarriages

(33:16):
and infertility. Because it's usually painted as really tragic and
sometimes something to be punished for and shunned for. a
bad omega can't fulfill their purpose. Omegas are often blamed
for miscarriage or inability to conceive. And sometimes, yeah, like

(33:38):
a lot of times it's caused by trauma, as in
like past trauma has built a block so they can't
scent or they can't fit into their pack or they
can't conceive. But I just think that That also says
something about how a lot of people have internalized this idea.
If I can't conceive, then something's wrong with me. I'm

(34:03):
a bad person. A lot of stories do frame the
collar as birth control. Sometimes you can get this metal
patch thing. The alpha can't place the mating bite when
it's on. But the caller is controlled by the alpha.

(34:23):
So I think this is something interesting too. And we're
talking about who has access to birth control and who's
controlling how we have access to birth control, if we
have it. So I think that's revealing of another anxiety.
And going back to what I mentioned earlier with sexual assault,

(34:46):
as we discussed in our DubCon episode, there is... an
interesting read on sexual assault here too, because it's very,
omegas are seducers and alphas are helpless in the face
of their seduction. It's like that whole, what was she wearing? Well,

(35:09):
we could all smell she was aroused. Was there slick?
Which some have pointed out has been a way some
people deal with writing this has been a way some
people deal with the fact that they might have experienced
such an assault, but they also had experiences or reactions

(35:33):
of arousal, even if you didn't want that to happen.
And to remind you, a lot of these stories are
about young adults and teens. So it's clear people are
working hard through some things, in my opinion, in these stories. So,

(35:57):
here's my, like, the wrap-up, why I think this matters.
We live in a time where the Supreme Court is
stripping women and marginalized people of their rights, when women
have to grapple with things like fears around pregnancy, abortion access,
domestic abuse, and still feel attracted to dynamics that we've

(36:22):
been taught to desire, but also that in a strange
way address our anxieties. It's a way to question gender
power dynamics or to work through them, even if you
don't subscribe to them. In fact, there's a separate conversation
to have about the BDSM community and how ABO Fanfic

(36:44):
can healthily or unhealthily incorporate that concept of communication and consent.
I think that this is an attempt to reconcile gendered
societal structures that are so embedded that they're hard to
remove on an individual level. And the fact that for

(37:05):
a lot of people, we have been socialized to want
this very same dynamic. That's what I hear from most
people who read ABO, is that in real life, I
would not want this. But in this safe space, I
want to explore this. It's also, yeah, the internalized messaging

(37:26):
so many of us have absorbed, men are more assertive,
women are more submissive. It kind of, and going back
to that like independent omega idea, that also kind of
feels like the, like I'm not like other girls, I'm
not like other omegas. So just wanting to have sex

(37:47):
and it be simple, but with elements of things I
know are problematic, where the roles are clear, but can
be pushed. And I know some people hate it, and
it certainly is often misogynistic, but I don't think it's
quite so black and white. There are layers and plenty
of people who read it, me included, to deal with

(38:11):
gender and sexual dynamics. And for me, I'm kind of
embarrassed to admit it, but the idea of being so
desirable and worthy of protection and having someone make you
feel safe is something that I'm like, this is nice.
As I said, it's not necessarily the thing I seek out,

(38:32):
but I get why people do. And for a lot
of people, the smut aspect is a big draw as well.
Not Not for me, but I understand it is for
a lot of folks. So that's why I think it's
become what it has become. And it's grown exponentially since

(38:57):
I think we talked about it last. But there you go.
That's the Omegaverse. Very brief look into it. And as
I said, not a lot of people... out there writing
about this. So I, if I got something wrong, please,

(39:19):
please let me know. You can email us at hello
at stuff I never told you.com. You can find us
on blue sky mom so podcast or on instagram and
tiktok at stuff i never told you we're also on
youtube we have some merchandise at cotton bureau and we
have a buck you can get wherever you get your
books thanks as always to our super producer rima and
our executive bruce maya thank you and thanks to you

(39:41):
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