January 27, 2025 • 12 mins
After President Wilson was incapacitated due to a health incident, First Lady Edith Wilson arguably assumed power. Anney and Samantha delve into some history about this very complicated story.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
Will Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. Okay, so today
we are talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who I'm
just gonna go ahead and say was not an ally,
(00:27):
so I put that out there. But I was really
interested in this story. The first time I heard about
it was on Drunk History. I had never heard about
it before, and it was on my mind after the
recent election inauguration and watching Nine to five actually pushed
it to the top of my mind because nine to
five you've got women who are kind of making all
(00:50):
the decisions while the boss is incapacitated.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
So, yeah, we're just going to do a quick history.
But there has been a lot written about this, so
if you want to learn more, you there's plenty of resources,
and I'm going to mention one of them in this today. Yeah,
we're talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who is sometimes
called the first acting woman president. It's really complicated, but
(01:15):
it is interesting, so let's get into it. Edith was
born in Virginia in eighteen seventy two. From a young age,
she seemed eager for power. Her paternal grandmother described her
as quote bespectacled tyrant ruling from a rocking chair from.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I know that's the title to have.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That is a title to have. But she taught Edith
how to eat and write some French. Even she also
taught Edith the lost cosmith, which is essentially the Civil
War was something other than enslavement, which is not true,
but she did teach her that. Meanwhile, her hernal grandmother
(02:01):
was all about being ladylike and modest, which also comes
up in her story a lot. She even claimed. Edith
later claimed she was a direct descendant of the original
colonizers of Virginia and Pocahontas.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So she's saying her ancestors right people. Yeah, okay, sure.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
But I think at the time they didn't have that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okay, love the head.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
No, you're right. But Edith met and married President Woo
Joe Wilson in nineteen fifteen, a second marriage for the
both of them. Edith was a widow and had inherited
her husband's DC jewelry shop, and records indicate that she
was the first woman in the area to get a
driver's license. So all of these things, the job, the money,
the license, the fact she didn't have kids. Afforded her
(02:47):
a level of independence that a lot of women didn't
have access to at the time, and it was extremely
important her to the point she actually turned down President
Wilson's proposal at first. She was worried about losing her
freedom and being subordinate as First Lady. The President eventually
won her over by sharing policy documents, which I'm almost
(03:11):
confident was illegal.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
But so he's showing national secrets to woo a woman. Yeah,
can we just say men are the worst? I could?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
All right.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So their union did raise some eyebrows at the time
and was somewhat of a political controversy because he married
her about six months after the death of his previous wife.
His aides even came up with a plot to keep
her away from him. They got engaged somewhat secretly, and
she was much more politically involved than Wilson's previous wife
(03:48):
had been, even trying to sever his relations with those
that had attempted to keep them apart. She also did
away with a lot of the first Lady duties that
she wasn't interested in using the nineteen seventeen Declaration of War,
so no more hosting of events like the Easter egg role.
(04:08):
From what I read, she was really into the image
of the American housewife though, which I find interesting because
she canceled a lot of these events, But she was
into the image of it, so she wore thrift store clothing.
She sounds like she was very performative, or like she
wanted to project this image that she did believe it.
I think she did believe in it, but she wanted
(04:30):
to make sure you did know she believed in.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It, right. She wanted it for other women, just not herself. Yeah,
you need to be subordinate, you need to listen, but
you're not as smart as me.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Right, That's what I think. Yeah. She made sure that
at the White House they observed rationing and doing things
like meatless Mondays and meatless Wednesdays. She knitted, sewed, and
held charitable auctions. She responded to the letters of soldiers,
volunteered named vessels thousands by one source, decoded military messages,
(05:02):
and gave her husband advice. She was very, very involved
and just to mention, kind of like I said at
the top, Wilson's presidency is complex. I feel like every
president's legacy is very complex. It was progressive in some ways,
but also pushing racist and sexist policies at the same time,
So I just want to put that out there. Interestingly,
(05:23):
there is speculation that Wilson was so worried people thought
Edith was having undue influence on his policy that he
supported suffrage despite the anti suffrage viewpoints of his wife.
(05:51):
In nineteen nineteen, President Wilson had an incapacitating stroke, in
part from all the stress of World War One. He
also had like a history of health conditions similar and
his failure. He was really stressed about his failure to
convince the US to join the UN's precursor, the League
of Nations. So after the war he was really like,
(06:13):
we should we should join an organization that's about peace,
And then it failed and he was really stressed and
he had a shoke. With the help of some aids,
Edith pretty much lied to the public and press about
his condition four months, claiming that he was suffering from
quote nervous exhaustion. This was before a woman could vote.
(06:38):
A reminder. She kept this up for a year and
five months in total. She acted as a gatekeeper. She
restricted who got to see him, and she informed people
when he had decided on important issues. Four months she
essentially assumed the role as president. The author of a
(06:58):
biography on Edith called Untold Power, The Fascinating Rise and
Complex Legacy of First Lady Edith Wilson, Rebecca Box Roberts
has said that, without a doubt, some of the decisions
she made herself, whether because she could not ask him
or chose not to, she most likely approved of cabinet
member appointments and issued vetos. So, as you might imagine,
(07:23):
she was controversial amongst the staff. They, i would say,
very rightfully didn't like that she was keeping them away
from him. And she was almost certainly keeping stuff from
her husband too. We don't know for sure, but she
said later that was like about his health. But anyway, anyway,
(07:43):
she was called presidentist, secret president, gatekeeper, extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Woof. I mean, she's getting these titles now, like she's
receiving these titles she was her. I'm now seeing a
lot of these plots, yeah, must have been based on her,
like a lot of these like presidential plot movies. Okay,
all right, she for all the bad things she does,
(08:10):
all the laws, she spills, girl doing her thing.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Go ahead, she's again, I want to read this book
because she's such a fascinating like, I don't want any
women to have rights, but I'm be.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Dead, but that will be the one that runs this.
Don't you worry about me?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
All right? So we don't know. There's a lot we
don't know about this because we don't know for sure
she kept it sacred if this was being done out
of a desire to chase power or because she didn't
want to upset him Wilson and worse in his condition both.
Maybe she allegedly said that she believed resigning office would
(08:48):
have killed him. It's also likely that she was doing
what he would have done in terms of the decisions,
because she knew him really well. So it's not like
she came into power and did some thing he wouldn't
he wouldn't have done. She claimed she merely chose what
was important enough for her husband to see, and that
(09:10):
she delayed a lot of it until he'd recovered. And
you can't look at all the stuff that happened in
that period and make your own judgment. Also, legally he
should have resigned. We're not a legal podcast, We've said
a million times, but legally, technically he should have resigned
and let his vice president take over his duties. Apparently
(09:31):
neither Woodrow are liked the vice president. Members of both
main political parties urged VP Marshall to assume the presidency,
but he refused, not wanting to set a precedence, which
feels so strange now different podcasts.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
But I don't know that sounds like Pence a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah. President Wilson died in nineteen twenty four. Edith stayed
in Washington and continued to meet with future first ladies.
A lot of people say she really shaped what that
position looks like in our modern day. I would we
should come back into a deeper dive into that. But
she was very much about being ladylike. She didn't like
(10:20):
one portrait of her because she thought she looked too authoritative,
so she kept the whole thing secret. It's just such
a different The juxtaposition is so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I mean, just looks like she knew how to play
the game.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
It sounds like she knew how to play the game.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And she just needed the It's kind of what we
see in most people. People who are truly powerful know
that they do not need to be the face, right,
they just need to pull the strings.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, and she really did. She really like behind every
great man is a woman. She was like, yep, I.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Am that great wet.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So that's a really interesting story. I would love to
check out the book again. Clearly she wasn't an ally
so not not saying anything like that, but.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
She didn't want any good for anybody else. It was just, yeah,
it was for her. I think she was going to
call the narcissist.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I could see that.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, I know we say that word around a lot,
but like this kind of level of like I know
what's best, yeah myself, No one else should have that
same right.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah that that definitely felt like her whole deal was
that I know what's up, and I'm gonna run this
and I'm not gonna let anyone else interfere. But yeah,
if if I've left out anything or got anything incorrect,
I would love to hear from people. And if there's
anything that you would like us to expand upon from here,
(11:50):
please let us know. You can email us at Stepanie
Moms Stuff at iheartmania dot com or Hello at Stepa
Never Told You. You can find us on Blue Sky
at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagra and TikTok at
stuff and Never Told You for also on YouTube. We
have a tea public store, and we have a book
you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always to our super producer Christine, our executive ducer My,
and our contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Stuff Will Never Told You is production of Iyhart Radio.
For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listening to your favorite show.
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
Will Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. Okay, so today
we are talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who I'm
just gonna go ahead and say was not an ally,
(00:27):
so I put that out there. But I was really
interested in this story. The first time I heard about
it was on Drunk History. I had never heard about
it before, and it was on my mind after the
recent election inauguration and watching Nine to five actually pushed
it to the top of my mind because nine to
five you've got women who are kind of making all
(00:50):
the decisions while the boss is incapacitated.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
So, yeah, we're just going to do a quick history.
But there has been a lot written about this, so
if you want to learn more, you there's plenty of resources,
and I'm going to mention one of them in this today. Yeah,
we're talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who is sometimes
called the first acting woman president. It's really complicated, but
(01:15):
it is interesting, so let's get into it. Edith was
born in Virginia in eighteen seventy two. From a young age,
she seemed eager for power. Her paternal grandmother described her
as quote bespectacled tyrant ruling from a rocking chair from.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I know that's the title to have.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That is a title to have. But she taught Edith
how to eat and write some French. Even she also
taught Edith the lost cosmith, which is essentially the Civil
War was something other than enslavement, which is not true,
but she did teach her that. Meanwhile, her hernal grandmother
(02:01):
was all about being ladylike and modest, which also comes
up in her story a lot. She even claimed. Edith
later claimed she was a direct descendant of the original
colonizers of Virginia and Pocahontas.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So she's saying her ancestors right people. Yeah, okay, sure.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
But I think at the time they didn't have that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okay, love the head.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
No, you're right. But Edith met and married President Woo
Joe Wilson in nineteen fifteen, a second marriage for the
both of them. Edith was a widow and had inherited
her husband's DC jewelry shop, and records indicate that she
was the first woman in the area to get a
driver's license. So all of these things, the job, the money,
the license, the fact she didn't have kids. Afforded her
(02:47):
a level of independence that a lot of women didn't
have access to at the time, and it was extremely
important her to the point she actually turned down President
Wilson's proposal at first. She was worried about losing her
freedom and being subordinate as First Lady. The President eventually
won her over by sharing policy documents, which I'm almost
(03:11):
confident was illegal.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
But so he's showing national secrets to woo a woman. Yeah,
can we just say men are the worst? I could?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
All right.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So their union did raise some eyebrows at the time
and was somewhat of a political controversy because he married
her about six months after the death of his previous wife.
His aides even came up with a plot to keep
her away from him. They got engaged somewhat secretly, and
she was much more politically involved than Wilson's previous wife
(03:48):
had been, even trying to sever his relations with those
that had attempted to keep them apart. She also did
away with a lot of the first Lady duties that
she wasn't interested in using the nineteen seventeen Declaration of War,
so no more hosting of events like the Easter egg role.
(04:08):
From what I read, she was really into the image
of the American housewife though, which I find interesting because
she canceled a lot of these events, But she was
into the image of it, so she wore thrift store clothing.
She sounds like she was very performative, or like she
wanted to project this image that she did believe it.
I think she did believe in it, but she wanted
(04:30):
to make sure you did know she believed in.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It, right. She wanted it for other women, just not herself. Yeah,
you need to be subordinate, you need to listen, but
you're not as smart as me.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Right, That's what I think. Yeah. She made sure that
at the White House they observed rationing and doing things
like meatless Mondays and meatless Wednesdays. She knitted, sewed, and
held charitable auctions. She responded to the letters of soldiers,
volunteered named vessels thousands by one source, decoded military messages,
(05:02):
and gave her husband advice. She was very, very involved
and just to mention, kind of like I said at
the top, Wilson's presidency is complex. I feel like every
president's legacy is very complex. It was progressive in some ways,
but also pushing racist and sexist policies at the same time,
So I just want to put that out there. Interestingly,
(05:23):
there is speculation that Wilson was so worried people thought
Edith was having undue influence on his policy that he
supported suffrage despite the anti suffrage viewpoints of his wife.
(05:51):
In nineteen nineteen, President Wilson had an incapacitating stroke, in
part from all the stress of World War One. He
also had like a history of health conditions similar and
his failure. He was really stressed about his failure to
convince the US to join the UN's precursor, the League
of Nations. So after the war he was really like,
(06:13):
we should we should join an organization that's about peace,
And then it failed and he was really stressed and
he had a shoke. With the help of some aids,
Edith pretty much lied to the public and press about
his condition four months, claiming that he was suffering from
quote nervous exhaustion. This was before a woman could vote.
(06:38):
A reminder. She kept this up for a year and
five months in total. She acted as a gatekeeper. She
restricted who got to see him, and she informed people
when he had decided on important issues. Four months she
essentially assumed the role as president. The author of a
(06:58):
biography on Edith called Untold Power, The Fascinating Rise and
Complex Legacy of First Lady Edith Wilson, Rebecca Box Roberts
has said that, without a doubt, some of the decisions
she made herself, whether because she could not ask him
or chose not to, she most likely approved of cabinet
member appointments and issued vetos. So, as you might imagine,
(07:23):
she was controversial amongst the staff. They, i would say,
very rightfully didn't like that she was keeping them away
from him. And she was almost certainly keeping stuff from
her husband too. We don't know for sure, but she
said later that was like about his health. But anyway, anyway,
(07:43):
she was called presidentist, secret president, gatekeeper, extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Woof. I mean, she's getting these titles now, like she's
receiving these titles she was her. I'm now seeing a
lot of these plots, yeah, must have been based on her,
like a lot of these like presidential plot movies. Okay,
all right, she for all the bad things she does,
(08:10):
all the laws, she spills, girl doing her thing.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Go ahead, she's again, I want to read this book
because she's such a fascinating like, I don't want any
women to have rights, but I'm be.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Dead, but that will be the one that runs this.
Don't you worry about me?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
All right? So we don't know. There's a lot we
don't know about this because we don't know for sure
she kept it sacred if this was being done out
of a desire to chase power or because she didn't
want to upset him Wilson and worse in his condition both.
Maybe she allegedly said that she believed resigning office would
(08:48):
have killed him. It's also likely that she was doing
what he would have done in terms of the decisions,
because she knew him really well. So it's not like
she came into power and did some thing he wouldn't
he wouldn't have done. She claimed she merely chose what
was important enough for her husband to see, and that
(09:10):
she delayed a lot of it until he'd recovered. And
you can't look at all the stuff that happened in
that period and make your own judgment. Also, legally he
should have resigned. We're not a legal podcast, We've said
a million times, but legally, technically he should have resigned
and let his vice president take over his duties. Apparently
(09:31):
neither Woodrow are liked the vice president. Members of both
main political parties urged VP Marshall to assume the presidency,
but he refused, not wanting to set a precedence, which
feels so strange now different podcasts.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
But I don't know that sounds like Pence a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah. President Wilson died in nineteen twenty four. Edith stayed
in Washington and continued to meet with future first ladies.
A lot of people say she really shaped what that
position looks like in our modern day. I would we
should come back into a deeper dive into that. But
she was very much about being ladylike. She didn't like
(10:20):
one portrait of her because she thought she looked too authoritative,
so she kept the whole thing secret. It's just such
a different The juxtaposition is so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I mean, just looks like she knew how to play
the game.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
It sounds like she knew how to play the game.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And she just needed the It's kind of what we
see in most people. People who are truly powerful know
that they do not need to be the face, right,
they just need to pull the strings.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, and she really did. She really like behind every
great man is a woman. She was like, yep, I.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Am that great wet.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So that's a really interesting story. I would love to
check out the book again. Clearly she wasn't an ally
so not not saying anything like that, but.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
She didn't want any good for anybody else. It was just, yeah,
it was for her. I think she was going to
call the narcissist.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I could see that.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, I know we say that word around a lot,
but like this kind of level of like I know
what's best, yeah myself, No one else should have that
same right.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah that that definitely felt like her whole deal was
that I know what's up, and I'm gonna run this
and I'm not gonna let anyone else interfere. But yeah,
if if I've left out anything or got anything incorrect,
I would love to hear from people. And if there's
anything that you would like us to expand upon from here,
(11:50):
please let us know. You can email us at Stepanie
Moms Stuff at iheartmania dot com or Hello at Stepa
Never Told You. You can find us on Blue Sky
at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagra and TikTok at
stuff and Never Told You for also on YouTube. We
have a tea public store, and we have a book
you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always to our super producer Christine, our executive ducer My,
and our contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Stuff Will Never Told You is production of Iyhart Radio.
For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listening to your favorite show.
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