May 19, 2025 • 25 mins
Do women need more sleep? If so, why? Or does it have to do with more outside factors? We dig into some new research.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
I never told you production by her radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And you know what, We've recently had an episode when
we talked about postpartum and we in that episode we
talked about a new study supposedly that's talking about how
women need more sleep. So I thought we could take
this money, Minnie and explore that, Like, what are people saying,
let's talk about this. When did they actually decide that
(00:39):
studies about sleep should include women? Guess what, y'all, it
didn't happen until the nineties. That's right. They actually expanded
the study from just white men to well everybody else
in like nineteen nineties. Surprise of price. Of course, some
would argue that because sleep studies didn't start until the seventies,
(00:59):
which is relatively late for kind of these type of
scientific biological studies, that this is a bit more progressive
on the timeline than other types of studies. So I
guess here's a cookie take it. Thanks for including others. Yeah,
but anyway, so with all of that, we know that
(01:20):
sleep is important. I think we were trying to talk
remember some of our past episodes, because I'm pretty sure
we had a whole conversation about like you having trouble
sleeping and how much sleep we actually need and all
these different things. I know Christen and Caroline have several
other like difference in reference to like women and babies
and whether or not insomnia effect women differently, all those
(01:42):
different things. So this is not a new subject, but
I thought we would go back to the basic, especially
with the fact that they have this newer study came
out in twenty twenty four. I believe, and yes, the
typical recommendation that we've always heard I've always heard out
about you, but like eight hours is the timeline, but
like seven to nine hours is the perfect timing is
if you have good RESTful sleep. And that's a whole
(02:04):
different conversation for me. I have to say, I need
to either have just like six to seven hours for
me to feel like I'm parking up and according to
my watches that tell me how well my sleep is.
Those are the like the less sleep like if it's
more than five hours but less than seven, like less
than eight, it says you did a great job. I
(02:24):
score pretty high, and I say pretty had in like
eighties and they're like, yeah, a thumbs up. Out of
one hundred, or it has to be ten hours, Like,
you better give me the full ten hours. I need
to sleep it off. But in between is not good
for me. I get really odd and groggy.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
How have you been sleeping lately? I always ask you
this when you stay here, I'm like, how did you sleep?
How many hours did you sleep?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
What?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
How did you go to bed? So let me ask
you how are you sleeping?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I have improved in this arena since I think we
last talked about it. I Five is my app That's
my number. Though, yeah, I feel the best at five.
If I get more than that, I actually feel kind
of worse. I've never really gone I mean I have,
but very rarely have I gone over like eight or nine,
(03:14):
at least in my adulthood. When I was younger, I did.
But if five is where I'm good. But I do
like to doze around, Like my favorite thing is when
I don't have to get up yet and I can
think about stuff, Star Wars stuff, probably, but I did.
(03:35):
I do have. Part of my trouble with sleeping is
I have a like fight or flight reaction to it,
and it's so frustrating because it's it's hard to remember
the moment before you fell asleep correct, Like it's really difficult,
but I can, like my brain will shock me out
of it, like no, you're not falling asleep, and so
I will be almost asleep and it's like I'm drowning
(03:58):
and I have to like suck in air and it
wakes me right up. So that's my issue is I
have to get past that.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
You feel like if you have sleep apnea, which is
a conversation I have.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
My uncle has it and I have gotten tested for
it and they said I didn't have it, but my
brother has it too, So maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Maybe it needs to be a different because that not
breathing is a breath, It just.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It just kind of feels like you're getting shocked out
of Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, I've had that. Yeah, That's what I'm usually in
my naptur late stages when I'm that way, because I'm like,
I'm kind of alert and know I need to wake up.
So if I actually shot myself wake up something, Oh no,
I missed it type of thought process, then I'm like, oh,
I'm awake.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Because which I know we'll probably talk about this and
I have previously talked about this. Maybe depending on when
you listen to it, because I have a happy hour
coming out about this, but it's it's true that I
probably am not getting a lot of good sleep.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, and that's yeah, that's the bigger conversation too, Like, yeah,
so again, we know that the lack of sleep can
be really bad for you. They're professionals that attribute lack
of sleep to the increase of things like type two
diabetes and high blood pressure and a lot of heart problems.
One of the most common diet tips that we get,
which I think is actually a helpful diet tip because
(05:14):
it's just healthy in general, is that your body needs
rest to reset and that it can't affect your metabolism.
I'm not a scientist. I can't tell you any of
these things, but having good sleep is a good thing,
so we're going to just attribute them like, eh, it's
good for all around. Good advice, right, But does it
affect women and men differently? Well, like any other good
(05:36):
research that's just newer, maybe the answer seems unclear. There
are those who state that women are in need of
more sleep and that has something to do with your
ever changing life cycles and hormone levels. So here's a
look at the Cleveland Clinic article which has this to
say from twenty twenty four, and it's from their article
(05:57):
why women need to sleep more than men? So women
typically have more issues affecting their sleep, so they may
need slightly more of it to make up for disruptive
sleep or poor quality sleep than one of the doctors said.
So I know as I was reading through some of
these studies, they were saying that they don't necessarily need
like hours, but at least thirty minutes more because they
(06:19):
need to make up for that anxiety, restlessness, hot flashes,
whatever it may be. And the issues may include, they say,
hormonal changes, depression, and anxiety, and sleep disorders, which I
feel like sleep disorders is that a cause or the effect?
Like what are you saying to me? So that's a
(06:40):
whole different thing. And according to the Las Vegas Obgyn Center,
it goes they talk a little bit about like specific ages.
So here's what they say. For the fifteen to twenties,
they stress the importance of quote building a foundation, and
as young girls they go through different changes in puberty,
Actually going to sleep and staying asleep becomes more challenging
(07:01):
at this point in time, and that they recommend eight
to ten hours for this age range, and they often
say they need that longer time. Those teenagers, they really
need some extra extra caring. You know what, So parents
out there, don't don't be too upset when they sleep
till two pm, when they stayed up till four pm
(07:23):
listening to whatever music they want to listen. I sound
so old right now, moving up four am. I'm not
really old because I changed that because they stayed up
from up to four am. This whole conversation is gonna
make me really aged. So for the twenties and forties,
(07:50):
sleep cycles are often impacted by the hormonal shifts, and
they recommend seven to nine hours at that typical range. Again,
and of course they mentioned the need for healthy sleep
for those who experiencing pregnancy or going through pregnancy, and
even break down the different reasons and needs per trimester.
We're not going to go into that too deeply, but
they do have specific things like you need this, this
and this, and I know I've heard the stories. It's
(08:12):
almost impossible. Every position hurts. Yeah, that's what I've heard. Yep,
every position hurts. And then we have the whole motherhood
thing beyond. After the birth, and I would think this
is a bit more self explanatory. So here's the quote
from this article quote, motherhood transforms sleep into a precious
and evolving experience. While the recommended amount of sleep remains
(08:36):
the same, the journey of caring for children, especially during
their earlier years, bring unique rhythms and patterns to mother's rest.
Nighttime care of it givings such as feeding and soothing
can often creates more fragmented sleep, but it also reflects
the profound bond and attentiveness between mothers and their children.
So when we were reading these different articles, they do
(08:57):
talk about this level of like bond, but then at
some times continued like need for help doesn't always come,
but you can't really do much about it if you're feeding,
especially if you're breastfeeding. That that's that conversation, as we
mentioned in the post part of the episode, that they
were saying, if men should really step up to do
things if it's not for breastfeeding, Like you need to
(09:18):
bond as well. This really helps you bond throughout most
of the early stages of the children's lives and really
kind of funny. I don't know if I'm going to
mention it again a bit, but like as they're talking
about how you know, it's a beautiful thing and people
persevere and they really I'm like, this feels really condescending,
Like you're really pushing parents to be like, this is
(09:41):
a beautiful moment. This is gonna be like, but what
you're exhausted and you don't give a shit, Like at
this point, don't talk to me about these any words
about bonding. I want to sleep.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm not an angry person, but when it comes out
it's because I'm exhausted, but I'm tired. That's when I'll
be like, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
What, they really were trying to paint this pretty picture
of like the perfect motherhood, glowing sainthood of like because
you got to wake up but four times during the
night and the best breasts children, and they're like, what
the hell, Yes this is great and all, but I'm tired.
But I was humorous. And then there's the perimenopause and
(10:21):
menopause moments again from that same article quote. As women
enter menopause, they often face new and unique challenges to
their sleep. Changes in estrogen and progesterone levels can bring
about symptoms like insomnia, hot flashes, night sweats, which may
disrupt RESTful sleep. These adjustments can be frustrating, but they
also reflect the body's transition into a new phase of life.
(10:43):
Despite these challenges, getting seven to nine hours of quality
sleep per night remains essential for maintaining physical, mental, and
emotional well being. I guess it's just because it's an obgyn.
But again, these flowery lang languages of like you're coming
into the new thing of your life, You're gonna be miserable,
(11:04):
but is so okay, It's wonderful. This then you hold
your hand to telling you that your delicate flower who
was withering away from not sleeping. I'm just kidding. And
this is what they say about the after menopause quote.
Research indicates that post menopausal women frequently experienced a decline
in sleep quality due to hormonal changes and other factors.
(11:25):
A meta analysis published in the Journal of Sleep Research
found that up to sixty percent of postmenopausal women report
poor sleep quality, with common issues including insomnia, sleep fragmentations,
and increased the awakenings during the night, which I've heard often,
and I think this is where I've heard, like people
will be like I will go to bed on time,
but I'll wake up at two stay up for a
(11:46):
few hours, and then go back to bed and then
wake up like sleep for four more hours. So that's
fragmented sleep, which can be disruptive, but you gotta do
what you gotta do.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, And there was another recent study that found that
people were waiting up specifically at three am, and it
was because a lot of people go to bed at
the same time. But then if you're not super stressed,
you would wake up and fall back asleep and never
remember that you woke up at three am. Because we're
all so stressed, we're remembering waking up and we can't
(12:18):
go back to sleep. See.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I was trying not to bring in my TikTok FYP,
but you're making me do this anti because according to them,
this can be so many like thyroid issues where you
wake up at two am. Okay, all right, you have yes, yeah,
we got we get similar things. I don't know for
sure what that is because talking about different types of
like this is the whole level of like magnesium coming
(12:41):
in be like if you do this beautiful juice of
like cherry juice and this and this I tried. It
wasn't my cup of tea, but it wasn't a couple
of churches. Very tart cherry juice, by the way, because
my partner, who is a man, has the struggles of that.
But like if he goes to sleep too early, he
immediately wakes up at like around one or two, Like
(13:03):
he has to wait at least eleven to try to
go to sleep unless he's exhausted, which is like his
his sleep schedule is so awful, like mine's pretty balanced
that he will like could sleep one day for fourteen
hours because like the previous five days he's only been
had like two or three hours of sleep. So he
finally like catches up with him very different schedules. But
(13:27):
all that to say is that he has a time
that if he can't if he's on trying to get
on raise schedule and he tries to go to bed
before eleven, like he goes to bed at ten, he
will be awake at one and then he'll be up
till five and then he's exhausted and sleeps again. But yeah,
that's I find that that is an interesting fragmented you're
missing the magnesium. I'm just kidding, that's not true. I
(13:48):
don't know, I don't know, so it goes without saying
having a good nice rest for women is healthy but
can be complicated. Summonhealth dot com right, so that it
is important for a good nice rest in the long
term for things like balancing hormones, decreasing the risk of
heart disease, and lowers the risk of mental health such
as anxiety and depression, and even can help with menstrual cycles,
(14:11):
which I was like, huh, that's interesting because also could
that be part of the effect of the lack of
sleep too.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I feel like, yeah, because a lot of the the
symptoms of menstrual cycle is because it sucks, Like it
hurts and you're sucks. It sucks so you can't sleep.
Like it's not like you're angry, but it's not necessarily
your hormones. You're just angry because you feel miserable.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Whatever would may be. Yeah, I will say, like, because
of my cramps were severe, it would wipe me up.
It would make me up in the middle of the
night and I would have to go get medicine and
I would just be cramping until like it eases.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Oh yeah, and not even like that's not even taking
into account the times you're at a friend's house or something.
And you're worried about stearing their sheets. Yeah, I can't sleep. Yeah, hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
If you wear tampons sometimes it just feels so uncomfortable,
like if you're especially if you're like if you have
sensory issues and you're like, I can feel everything that
can keep you awake. So many things so and one
of the main reasons some are saying women may need
more sleep may have to do with the overall level
of sleep quality, which we did talk about earlier. Again
with things like hormonal changes. The quality of sleep can
(15:22):
be affected again when it comes to children, things such
as breastfeeding, changing babies, thinking about babies, thinking about whether
or not they're okay, Like I would be an anxious right,
like are they okay? Are they asleep? Do they roll over?
Whereas the blanket, all those things can disrupt a person's
quality of sleep and sleep schedule, especially when the brunt
of a load is placed on the mothers. We've again
(15:44):
talked about this with a postpartum episode. And it's not
just hormonal life changes, but other things like stress and
again just the type of sleeper a person may be. Again,
you five hours and you have these certain times and
if you don't go cause they you told me, like,
if I don't get up bed by two, I'm not
going to sleep before four. And I'm like, we will
(16:04):
be dressed to bed at two.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I got a pretty strict schedule for me.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I had to go to bed around ten or eleven.
I need at least a good six to seven hours
for me to really feel like I'm doing things. And
even then, especially with like the aches and pains, like
I can feel my hip hurting and I have to
roll over, I can like and with all of that.
Here's what calm dot com, who again not a necessarily
a sponsor, but I have used actually to help me
(16:35):
sleep because of my anxiety before they write the mental
load keeps women up at night. Women tend to carry
a heavy mental load, constantly tracking schedules, appointments, and family responsibilities.
These racing thoughts can make it tough to fall asleep.
Women wake up more often. Studies show that women are
more likely to be light sleepers. Whether it's a sick
child or a pet or a snoring partner. Women are
(17:00):
simply interrupted more at night, which can lead them a
feeling drained and they're definitely like all those things I've
seen that, not the sick child part, but like a
sick dog again. When she jumps off the bed to
a wretch, I'm alert. I'm like, what is happening? Where
is she going? The snowing partner, which he's working on this,
I've gotten used to it. I have a feeling it's
(17:20):
gonna be one of those things that if like he's
not there at night, I notice it, like where's he yet? Yeah,
where's he yet? And I am a light sleeper, but
I can also go back to sleep pretty easily.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I can't go back to sleep easily. But I have
to say I have been really chiding myself for what
I call working when I'm sleeping, and it's not that
I'm even asleep, but I can't. I'm like, what if
we did an episode? And I'm like, stop working right now,
you need to go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
In the same way, I'm like, oh, yeah, we can
have an episode. Oh I was thinking about this earlier.
We need to have an episode. I've done that too,
never stops, never stops. But for me, I am a
light sleeper, but I can go quickly back to sleep.
So that's the good news for me. My partner, he's
not necessarily light sleeper, but he means he's like I
think he's like typical, but if I do wake him up,
(18:14):
he's awake. So I feel like a jerk, and I'm like,
oh no, but I used to be when I was
a kid, But I would creep my friends out. And
I don't know why they did this because they were
creepy to me, not me being creepy. They would try
it because they could wake up and look at me.
In the moment I felt them looking at me, I
would look wake up and it was always instant, So
they would do things just to see if I would,
and I would wake up because they're staring at me
(18:37):
and I feel it, and they would scream because I'm like,
why are you.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Looking at me?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Like why are you looking at me? But I'm that
kind of light sleeper also, but looking at me when
I'm asleep, it's creepy, y'all. So to say that this
is a brief explainer is a bit of an understatement.
(19:01):
The studies have gone even deeper, talking about the disparities
asleep for the black community and for other marginalized groups
in red cards to psychological stressors and factors, economic device
and discrepancies should be noted as well as resourcers talk
about the effects of environmental issues such as noise pollution,
light pollution, and other factors. And that's a huge thing.
Like where you're at, how well is your house insulated?
(19:25):
Can you afford you know, the insulated windows? Can you not?
Can you hear very well? Are you like my house
and right next to the interstate or in the neighborhood
where they think racing cars with a very loud motorist
fun at two in the morning. Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
And Kristin and I did a stuff whe Never Told
You video about the gender gap and sleeping, and one
of the things that Kristen brought up in that video was,
you know, if you have if you're like a single mom,
for instance, and you have multiple jobs and you don't
have a car, and you have to take all the
transport like sleep, it really becomes a luxury right at
(20:02):
that point.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Right because it takes a long time to travel somewhere.
And from a journalist resource dot Org, they write sleep
deficiencies also vary by race and ethnicity. The CDC data
shows thirty one percent of white and Asian adults and
thirty two percent of Hispanic or Latinos reported that they
were not getting enough sleep in twenty twenty, lower than
the national average of thirty five percent. In comparison, thirty
(20:26):
eight percent of American, Indian or Alaska natives, forty three
percent of Black people, and forty seven percent of Native
Hawaiian and other Pacific islanders report sleeping less than seven
hours per night. So it really does change based on location.
There's so many factors to this. When we have this conversation. Again,
(20:46):
this in comparison to the amount of studies that have
and should be had, is very small. Just put that
in there, but we did want to mention those things.
So to end, here's some advice from Health dot Harvard
dot edu for women specifically on how to get better
sleep or how to get quality sleep. One is to
(21:08):
create a sleep sanctuary. So keep it cool I or
however whatever temperature you need. I need it cold with
a nice blanket, But in this economy we keep it
kind of cold with a fan and less of a blanket.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, that's been a real I've put off the AC
for as long as I could, and it definitely impacted.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
They also say keep it cozy and keep it make
sure again sanctuary, so make it limited what you do
in there, and keep it screen free. I have a
hard time with that because I'm like scrolling scrolling. Also
now I need noise. That used to not be a
thing as much, but now I do. They also say
nap only if necessary. They say, if you do have
(21:57):
to nap, make it less than thirty minutes because it
does impact your schedule and sleepiness and all of that.
I think that's been said for a while. Avoid caffeine
after noon. My limit has been at two to three
me too, generally, Yeah, yeah, and I am starting to
become like you and having to take it down to
(22:18):
one cup of coffee. However, the caveat is my coffee
maker makes a really like strong, strong, strong level of
dream that I like, almost like a latte level with espresso,
and then I add a protein shake previous sponsor that
had a little bit of caffeine in it to it
because I think it so I actually do have probably
(22:40):
the caffeine of two cups of coffee, but I counted
as one. They also say do less alcohol, don't sleep.
You know a lot of people used to and kind
of still do use alcohol to sleep, but it actually
doesn't give you good sleep because you're dehydrated, and your
heart rate and all of those things. And the fun
fact they put in caffeine can stay in your body
for up to two twelve hours that I didn't know.
(23:03):
I knew it affected me twelve hours, a lot longer
than I thought, honestly.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, you just not know that either.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
They also say to exercise regularly, but not three hours
before bedtime because it gets you hyped. Yeah, there's so
many things to that. And try to keep consistent bedtimes,
especially on weekdays or your work days, because I know
people will have different schedules, but trying to do that
consistency is really important. I do start getting sleepy abound
ten thirty eleven, and my dog make sure is to
(23:33):
tell me at ten thirty at bedtime, and she gets
like really agitated that we are not in bed, So
she is more on the clock than I am about that.
Has she made you try to go to bed too?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
She gets crumpy and looks at me like, what are
we even doing here?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Annie is always with her if I'm not here, thank you,
which I'm very grateful for. And so and he has
experienced the peaches, just mentalness and.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, you can feel her stare the couch.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yes, and then she kind of like peeks around the corner.
If you're not following fast enough where you're at bro
come on, we're going to bed, so but there you go.
That is that conversation. Very short summary of this conversation
that yes, maybe women do need more sleep, but it's
not to the level like one woman needs ten hours
while man only need five. Again, this is the type
(24:27):
of study they have. This is fairly new and it's
just to make up for the quality. So if they
have the perfect partner that does everything truly fifty to fifty,
they may actually not need that more sleep. Who knows.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
That's true. Maybe we'll see more studies in the future.
If only well listeners please write in If you have
any thoughts or experience with anything that we've talked about,
you can email us at Hello at stuff and every
Told You dot com. You can find us on Blue
Scott Moms Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok and
(25:05):
Stuff We Never Told You or else on YouTube. We
have a tep epook store and we have a book
you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always to our super producer Christina or executive producer Maya
and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Thank you and thanks to you.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
For listening stuff I Never told you his pootion by
heart Radio. For more podcasts from My heart Radio, you
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we listen to your favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
I never told you production by her radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And you know what, We've recently had an episode when
we talked about postpartum and we in that episode we
talked about a new study supposedly that's talking about how
women need more sleep. So I thought we could take
this money, Minnie and explore that, Like, what are people saying,
let's talk about this. When did they actually decide that
(00:39):
studies about sleep should include women? Guess what, y'all, it
didn't happen until the nineties. That's right. They actually expanded
the study from just white men to well everybody else
in like nineteen nineties. Surprise of price. Of course, some
would argue that because sleep studies didn't start until the seventies,
(00:59):
which is relatively late for kind of these type of
scientific biological studies, that this is a bit more progressive
on the timeline than other types of studies. So I
guess here's a cookie take it. Thanks for including others. Yeah,
but anyway, so with all of that, we know that
(01:20):
sleep is important. I think we were trying to talk
remember some of our past episodes, because I'm pretty sure
we had a whole conversation about like you having trouble
sleeping and how much sleep we actually need and all
these different things. I know Christen and Caroline have several
other like difference in reference to like women and babies
and whether or not insomnia effect women differently, all those
(01:42):
different things. So this is not a new subject, but
I thought we would go back to the basic, especially
with the fact that they have this newer study came
out in twenty twenty four. I believe, and yes, the
typical recommendation that we've always heard I've always heard out
about you, but like eight hours is the timeline, but
like seven to nine hours is the perfect timing is
if you have good RESTful sleep. And that's a whole
(02:04):
different conversation for me. I have to say, I need
to either have just like six to seven hours for
me to feel like I'm parking up and according to
my watches that tell me how well my sleep is.
Those are the like the less sleep like if it's
more than five hours but less than seven, like less
than eight, it says you did a great job. I
(02:24):
score pretty high, and I say pretty had in like
eighties and they're like, yeah, a thumbs up. Out of
one hundred, or it has to be ten hours, Like,
you better give me the full ten hours. I need
to sleep it off. But in between is not good
for me. I get really odd and groggy.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
How have you been sleeping lately? I always ask you
this when you stay here, I'm like, how did you sleep?
How many hours did you sleep?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
What?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
How did you go to bed? So let me ask
you how are you sleeping?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I have improved in this arena since I think we
last talked about it. I Five is my app That's
my number. Though, yeah, I feel the best at five.
If I get more than that, I actually feel kind
of worse. I've never really gone I mean I have,
but very rarely have I gone over like eight or nine,
(03:14):
at least in my adulthood. When I was younger, I did.
But if five is where I'm good. But I do
like to doze around, Like my favorite thing is when
I don't have to get up yet and I can
think about stuff, Star Wars stuff, probably, but I did.
(03:35):
I do have. Part of my trouble with sleeping is
I have a like fight or flight reaction to it,
and it's so frustrating because it's it's hard to remember
the moment before you fell asleep correct, Like it's really difficult,
but I can, like my brain will shock me out
of it, like no, you're not falling asleep, and so
I will be almost asleep and it's like I'm drowning
(03:58):
and I have to like suck in air and it
wakes me right up. So that's my issue is I
have to get past that.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
You feel like if you have sleep apnea, which is
a conversation I have.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
My uncle has it and I have gotten tested for
it and they said I didn't have it, but my
brother has it too, So maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Maybe it needs to be a different because that not
breathing is a breath, It just.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It just kind of feels like you're getting shocked out
of Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, I've had that. Yeah, That's what I'm usually in
my naptur late stages when I'm that way, because I'm like,
I'm kind of alert and know I need to wake up.
So if I actually shot myself wake up something, Oh no,
I missed it type of thought process, then I'm like, oh,
I'm awake.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Because which I know we'll probably talk about this and
I have previously talked about this. Maybe depending on when
you listen to it, because I have a happy hour
coming out about this, but it's it's true that I
probably am not getting a lot of good sleep.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, and that's yeah, that's the bigger conversation too, Like, yeah,
so again, we know that the lack of sleep can
be really bad for you. They're professionals that attribute lack
of sleep to the increase of things like type two
diabetes and high blood pressure and a lot of heart problems.
One of the most common diet tips that we get,
which I think is actually a helpful diet tip because
(05:14):
it's just healthy in general, is that your body needs
rest to reset and that it can't affect your metabolism.
I'm not a scientist. I can't tell you any of
these things, but having good sleep is a good thing,
so we're going to just attribute them like, eh, it's
good for all around. Good advice, right, But does it
affect women and men differently? Well, like any other good
(05:36):
research that's just newer, maybe the answer seems unclear. There
are those who state that women are in need of
more sleep and that has something to do with your
ever changing life cycles and hormone levels. So here's a
look at the Cleveland Clinic article which has this to
say from twenty twenty four, and it's from their article
(05:57):
why women need to sleep more than men? So women
typically have more issues affecting their sleep, so they may
need slightly more of it to make up for disruptive
sleep or poor quality sleep than one of the doctors said.
So I know as I was reading through some of
these studies, they were saying that they don't necessarily need
like hours, but at least thirty minutes more because they
(06:19):
need to make up for that anxiety, restlessness, hot flashes,
whatever it may be. And the issues may include, they say,
hormonal changes, depression, and anxiety, and sleep disorders, which I
feel like sleep disorders is that a cause or the effect?
Like what are you saying to me? So that's a
(06:40):
whole different thing. And according to the Las Vegas Obgyn Center,
it goes they talk a little bit about like specific ages.
So here's what they say. For the fifteen to twenties,
they stress the importance of quote building a foundation, and
as young girls they go through different changes in puberty,
Actually going to sleep and staying asleep becomes more challenging
(07:01):
at this point in time, and that they recommend eight
to ten hours for this age range, and they often
say they need that longer time. Those teenagers, they really
need some extra extra caring. You know what, So parents
out there, don't don't be too upset when they sleep
till two pm, when they stayed up till four pm
(07:23):
listening to whatever music they want to listen. I sound
so old right now, moving up four am. I'm not
really old because I changed that because they stayed up
from up to four am. This whole conversation is gonna
make me really aged. So for the twenties and forties,
(07:50):
sleep cycles are often impacted by the hormonal shifts, and
they recommend seven to nine hours at that typical range. Again,
and of course they mentioned the need for healthy sleep
for those who experiencing pregnancy or going through pregnancy, and
even break down the different reasons and needs per trimester.
We're not going to go into that too deeply, but
they do have specific things like you need this, this
and this, and I know I've heard the stories. It's
(08:12):
almost impossible. Every position hurts. Yeah, that's what I've heard. Yep,
every position hurts. And then we have the whole motherhood
thing beyond. After the birth, and I would think this
is a bit more self explanatory. So here's the quote
from this article quote, motherhood transforms sleep into a precious
and evolving experience. While the recommended amount of sleep remains
(08:36):
the same, the journey of caring for children, especially during
their earlier years, bring unique rhythms and patterns to mother's rest.
Nighttime care of it givings such as feeding and soothing
can often creates more fragmented sleep, but it also reflects
the profound bond and attentiveness between mothers and their children.
So when we were reading these different articles, they do
(08:57):
talk about this level of like bond, but then at
some times continued like need for help doesn't always come,
but you can't really do much about it if you're feeding,
especially if you're breastfeeding. That that's that conversation, as we
mentioned in the post part of the episode, that they
were saying, if men should really step up to do
things if it's not for breastfeeding, Like you need to
(09:18):
bond as well. This really helps you bond throughout most
of the early stages of the children's lives and really
kind of funny. I don't know if I'm going to
mention it again a bit, but like as they're talking
about how you know, it's a beautiful thing and people
persevere and they really I'm like, this feels really condescending,
Like you're really pushing parents to be like, this is
(09:41):
a beautiful moment. This is gonna be like, but what
you're exhausted and you don't give a shit, Like at
this point, don't talk to me about these any words
about bonding. I want to sleep.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm not an angry person, but when it comes out
it's because I'm exhausted, but I'm tired. That's when I'll
be like, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
What, they really were trying to paint this pretty picture
of like the perfect motherhood, glowing sainthood of like because
you got to wake up but four times during the
night and the best breasts children, and they're like, what
the hell, Yes this is great and all, but I'm tired.
But I was humorous. And then there's the perimenopause and
(10:21):
menopause moments again from that same article quote. As women
enter menopause, they often face new and unique challenges to
their sleep. Changes in estrogen and progesterone levels can bring
about symptoms like insomnia, hot flashes, night sweats, which may
disrupt RESTful sleep. These adjustments can be frustrating, but they
also reflect the body's transition into a new phase of life.
(10:43):
Despite these challenges, getting seven to nine hours of quality
sleep per night remains essential for maintaining physical, mental, and
emotional well being. I guess it's just because it's an obgyn.
But again, these flowery lang languages of like you're coming
into the new thing of your life, You're gonna be miserable,
(11:04):
but is so okay, It's wonderful. This then you hold
your hand to telling you that your delicate flower who
was withering away from not sleeping. I'm just kidding. And
this is what they say about the after menopause quote.
Research indicates that post menopausal women frequently experienced a decline
in sleep quality due to hormonal changes and other factors.
(11:25):
A meta analysis published in the Journal of Sleep Research
found that up to sixty percent of postmenopausal women report
poor sleep quality, with common issues including insomnia, sleep fragmentations,
and increased the awakenings during the night, which I've heard often,
and I think this is where I've heard, like people
will be like I will go to bed on time,
but I'll wake up at two stay up for a
(11:46):
few hours, and then go back to bed and then
wake up like sleep for four more hours. So that's
fragmented sleep, which can be disruptive, but you gotta do
what you gotta do.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, And there was another recent study that found that
people were waiting up specifically at three am, and it
was because a lot of people go to bed at
the same time. But then if you're not super stressed,
you would wake up and fall back asleep and never
remember that you woke up at three am. Because we're
all so stressed, we're remembering waking up and we can't
(12:18):
go back to sleep. See.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I was trying not to bring in my TikTok FYP,
but you're making me do this anti because according to them,
this can be so many like thyroid issues where you
wake up at two am. Okay, all right, you have yes, yeah,
we got we get similar things. I don't know for
sure what that is because talking about different types of
like this is the whole level of like magnesium coming
(12:41):
in be like if you do this beautiful juice of
like cherry juice and this and this I tried. It
wasn't my cup of tea, but it wasn't a couple
of churches. Very tart cherry juice, by the way, because
my partner, who is a man, has the struggles of that.
But like if he goes to sleep too early, he
immediately wakes up at like around one or two, Like
(13:03):
he has to wait at least eleven to try to
go to sleep unless he's exhausted, which is like his
his sleep schedule is so awful, like mine's pretty balanced
that he will like could sleep one day for fourteen
hours because like the previous five days he's only been
had like two or three hours of sleep. So he
finally like catches up with him very different schedules. But
(13:27):
all that to say is that he has a time
that if he can't if he's on trying to get
on raise schedule and he tries to go to bed
before eleven, like he goes to bed at ten, he
will be awake at one and then he'll be up
till five and then he's exhausted and sleeps again. But yeah,
that's I find that that is an interesting fragmented you're
missing the magnesium. I'm just kidding, that's not true. I
(13:48):
don't know, I don't know, so it goes without saying
having a good nice rest for women is healthy but
can be complicated. Summonhealth dot com right, so that it
is important for a good nice rest in the long
term for things like balancing hormones, decreasing the risk of
heart disease, and lowers the risk of mental health such
as anxiety and depression, and even can help with menstrual cycles,
(14:11):
which I was like, huh, that's interesting because also could
that be part of the effect of the lack of
sleep too.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I feel like, yeah, because a lot of the the
symptoms of menstrual cycle is because it sucks, Like it
hurts and you're sucks. It sucks so you can't sleep.
Like it's not like you're angry, but it's not necessarily
your hormones. You're just angry because you feel miserable.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Whatever would may be. Yeah, I will say, like, because
of my cramps were severe, it would wipe me up.
It would make me up in the middle of the
night and I would have to go get medicine and
I would just be cramping until like it eases.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Oh yeah, and not even like that's not even taking
into account the times you're at a friend's house or something.
And you're worried about stearing their sheets. Yeah, I can't sleep. Yeah, hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
If you wear tampons sometimes it just feels so uncomfortable,
like if you're especially if you're like if you have
sensory issues and you're like, I can feel everything that
can keep you awake. So many things so and one
of the main reasons some are saying women may need
more sleep may have to do with the overall level
of sleep quality, which we did talk about earlier. Again
with things like hormonal changes. The quality of sleep can
(15:22):
be affected again when it comes to children, things such
as breastfeeding, changing babies, thinking about babies, thinking about whether
or not they're okay, Like I would be an anxious right,
like are they okay? Are they asleep? Do they roll over?
Whereas the blanket, all those things can disrupt a person's
quality of sleep and sleep schedule, especially when the brunt
of a load is placed on the mothers. We've again
(15:44):
talked about this with a postpartum episode. And it's not
just hormonal life changes, but other things like stress and
again just the type of sleeper a person may be. Again,
you five hours and you have these certain times and
if you don't go cause they you told me, like,
if I don't get up bed by two, I'm not
going to sleep before four. And I'm like, we will
(16:04):
be dressed to bed at two.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I got a pretty strict schedule for me.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I had to go to bed around ten or eleven.
I need at least a good six to seven hours
for me to really feel like I'm doing things. And
even then, especially with like the aches and pains, like
I can feel my hip hurting and I have to
roll over, I can like and with all of that.
Here's what calm dot com, who again not a necessarily
a sponsor, but I have used actually to help me
(16:35):
sleep because of my anxiety before they write the mental
load keeps women up at night. Women tend to carry
a heavy mental load, constantly tracking schedules, appointments, and family responsibilities.
These racing thoughts can make it tough to fall asleep.
Women wake up more often. Studies show that women are
more likely to be light sleepers. Whether it's a sick
child or a pet or a snoring partner. Women are
(17:00):
simply interrupted more at night, which can lead them a
feeling drained and they're definitely like all those things I've
seen that, not the sick child part, but like a
sick dog again. When she jumps off the bed to
a wretch, I'm alert. I'm like, what is happening? Where
is she going? The snowing partner, which he's working on this,
I've gotten used to it. I have a feeling it's
(17:20):
gonna be one of those things that if like he's
not there at night, I notice it, like where's he yet? Yeah,
where's he yet? And I am a light sleeper, but
I can also go back to sleep pretty easily.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I can't go back to sleep easily. But I have
to say I have been really chiding myself for what
I call working when I'm sleeping, and it's not that
I'm even asleep, but I can't. I'm like, what if
we did an episode? And I'm like, stop working right now,
you need to go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
In the same way, I'm like, oh, yeah, we can
have an episode. Oh I was thinking about this earlier.
We need to have an episode. I've done that too,
never stops, never stops. But for me, I am a
light sleeper, but I can go quickly back to sleep.
So that's the good news for me. My partner, he's
not necessarily light sleeper, but he means he's like I
think he's like typical, but if I do wake him up,
(18:14):
he's awake. So I feel like a jerk, and I'm like,
oh no, but I used to be when I was
a kid, But I would creep my friends out. And
I don't know why they did this because they were
creepy to me, not me being creepy. They would try
it because they could wake up and look at me.
In the moment I felt them looking at me, I
would look wake up and it was always instant, So
they would do things just to see if I would,
and I would wake up because they're staring at me
(18:37):
and I feel it, and they would scream because I'm like,
why are you.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Looking at me?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Like why are you looking at me? But I'm that
kind of light sleeper also, but looking at me when
I'm asleep, it's creepy, y'all. So to say that this
is a brief explainer is a bit of an understatement.
(19:01):
The studies have gone even deeper, talking about the disparities
asleep for the black community and for other marginalized groups
in red cards to psychological stressors and factors, economic device
and discrepancies should be noted as well as resourcers talk
about the effects of environmental issues such as noise pollution,
light pollution, and other factors. And that's a huge thing.
Like where you're at, how well is your house insulated?
(19:25):
Can you afford you know, the insulated windows? Can you not?
Can you hear very well? Are you like my house
and right next to the interstate or in the neighborhood
where they think racing cars with a very loud motorist
fun at two in the morning. Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
And Kristin and I did a stuff whe Never Told
You video about the gender gap and sleeping, and one
of the things that Kristen brought up in that video was,
you know, if you have if you're like a single mom,
for instance, and you have multiple jobs and you don't
have a car, and you have to take all the
transport like sleep, it really becomes a luxury right at
(20:02):
that point.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Right because it takes a long time to travel somewhere.
And from a journalist resource dot Org, they write sleep
deficiencies also vary by race and ethnicity. The CDC data
shows thirty one percent of white and Asian adults and
thirty two percent of Hispanic or Latinos reported that they
were not getting enough sleep in twenty twenty, lower than
the national average of thirty five percent. In comparison, thirty
(20:26):
eight percent of American, Indian or Alaska natives, forty three
percent of Black people, and forty seven percent of Native
Hawaiian and other Pacific islanders report sleeping less than seven
hours per night. So it really does change based on location.
There's so many factors to this. When we have this conversation. Again,
(20:46):
this in comparison to the amount of studies that have
and should be had, is very small. Just put that
in there, but we did want to mention those things.
So to end, here's some advice from Health dot Harvard
dot edu for women specifically on how to get better
sleep or how to get quality sleep. One is to
(21:08):
create a sleep sanctuary. So keep it cool I or
however whatever temperature you need. I need it cold with
a nice blanket, But in this economy we keep it
kind of cold with a fan and less of a blanket.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, that's been a real I've put off the AC
for as long as I could, and it definitely impacted.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
They also say keep it cozy and keep it make
sure again sanctuary, so make it limited what you do
in there, and keep it screen free. I have a
hard time with that because I'm like scrolling scrolling. Also
now I need noise. That used to not be a
thing as much, but now I do. They also say
nap only if necessary. They say, if you do have
(21:57):
to nap, make it less than thirty minutes because it
does impact your schedule and sleepiness and all of that.
I think that's been said for a while. Avoid caffeine
after noon. My limit has been at two to three
me too, generally, Yeah, yeah, and I am starting to
become like you and having to take it down to
(22:18):
one cup of coffee. However, the caveat is my coffee
maker makes a really like strong, strong, strong level of
dream that I like, almost like a latte level with espresso,
and then I add a protein shake previous sponsor that
had a little bit of caffeine in it to it
because I think it so I actually do have probably
(22:40):
the caffeine of two cups of coffee, but I counted
as one. They also say do less alcohol, don't sleep.
You know a lot of people used to and kind
of still do use alcohol to sleep, but it actually
doesn't give you good sleep because you're dehydrated, and your
heart rate and all of those things. And the fun
fact they put in caffeine can stay in your body
for up to two twelve hours that I didn't know.
(23:03):
I knew it affected me twelve hours, a lot longer
than I thought, honestly.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, you just not know that either.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
They also say to exercise regularly, but not three hours
before bedtime because it gets you hyped. Yeah, there's so
many things to that. And try to keep consistent bedtimes,
especially on weekdays or your work days, because I know
people will have different schedules, but trying to do that
consistency is really important. I do start getting sleepy abound
ten thirty eleven, and my dog make sure is to
(23:33):
tell me at ten thirty at bedtime, and she gets
like really agitated that we are not in bed, So
she is more on the clock than I am about that.
Has she made you try to go to bed too?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
She gets crumpy and looks at me like, what are
we even doing here?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Annie is always with her if I'm not here, thank you,
which I'm very grateful for. And so and he has
experienced the peaches, just mentalness and.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, you can feel her stare the couch.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yes, and then she kind of like peeks around the corner.
If you're not following fast enough where you're at bro
come on, we're going to bed, so but there you go.
That is that conversation. Very short summary of this conversation
that yes, maybe women do need more sleep, but it's
not to the level like one woman needs ten hours
while man only need five. Again, this is the type
(24:27):
of study they have. This is fairly new and it's
just to make up for the quality. So if they
have the perfect partner that does everything truly fifty to fifty,
they may actually not need that more sleep. Who knows.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
That's true. Maybe we'll see more studies in the future.
If only well listeners please write in If you have
any thoughts or experience with anything that we've talked about,
you can email us at Hello at stuff and every
Told You dot com. You can find us on Blue
Scott Moms Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok and
(25:05):
Stuff We Never Told You or else on YouTube. We
have a tep epook store and we have a book
you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always to our super producer Christina or executive producer Maya
and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Thank you and thanks to you.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
For listening stuff I Never told you his pootion by
heart Radio. For more podcasts from My heart Radio, you
can check out the heart Radio app Apple podcast, where
we listen to your favorite shows,
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