November 10, 2023 • 29 mins
Self-disclosure can be really empowering, but it can also be re-traumatizing. We go over some basics.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I love good of stuff.
I never told you protection, but iHeartRadio. And today we
are finally coming to an episode I've been hinting app
we've been postponing about self disclosure. In this episode, we're
(00:28):
particularly talking about women in self disclosure, but especially around
things like abortion. I have seen this conversation play out
lately A lot of times we talk about it, even
if we never use this term, specifically in activism space
or the advocacy space. So it is a bigger conversation
(00:50):
than what we're having today, and today is kind of
a more siloed personal one that I've been thinking about.
And then the algorithm was like, you've been thinking about this.
I was like, oh no, I'm creeped out that you
know that, but I have, I know, just to put
that out there. Content warning, we are talking about sexual
(01:11):
assought and trauma. Uh, take care of yourselves. I don't
think we're going to go to in depth, but maybe
more in depth than we would normally go when we
say stuff like that. So just to put that out there.
So one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this,
And note I have not read this, but a lot
of quotes are about it is that Britney Spears had
(01:33):
a memoir come out recently and there were some very
upsetting things that she talked about and shared in it,
and so I got served via the algorithm. This article
from Slate that was about self disclosure and kind of
the pros and cons of self disclosure and self disclosure
(01:55):
is essentially what it sounds like like, you're disclosing something
about yourself. Well, okay, here's a quote from Slate. Sharing
a mental health experience or a hardship like a pregnancy
loss is called self disclosure. You can self disclose to
a friend or family member or to the whole world,
but it involves deeply personal details, though it is far
from easy and should be done with care. The aftermath
(02:18):
of self disclosure can include any emotion, from joy to sadness,
to grief to anger. Telling your story in public, especially
over and over again, has the potential to make anyone
re experience, even be re traumatized by events of the past.
So we're going to talk about that more in a second.
But the quote goes on further. No one can control
(02:41):
how others will respond to the disclosure. The person sharing
may turn inward on themselves with negative self talk as
a result of someone else's take on their story or
a clicky headline cavalierly summing up their terrible experience. It's
impossible to know what Brittany is going through as her
stories reverberate, though her most recent Instagram posts might give
as a hint that it's really really tough. But I
(03:03):
worry about our experience of self disclosing such personal details,
given that she has gone through so much and likely
still is going through a lot. This concern is something
I have for my own patients too. They are not
global pop sensations, and most of them will probably never
write a memoir, but many of them talk to me
about a desire to share. I treat a lot of
college students, and they are on TikTok and other social
(03:25):
media platforms. Their posts can draw attention from people they
do not know in person, and sometimes in unexpectedly huge numbers.
So I was thinking about this, and it's kind of
funny because I think I've had this episode planned for
a while. So I think the episode I did that
replaced this one originally the Happy Hour, where I was
(03:47):
just an anxious mess and I was talking about fan
fiction and how I don't understand relationships at all. It
kind of relates to that quote about like you can
never when people are interpreting or commenting on some thing
that feels very personal to you and you getting hurt
by that or confused by that, which is not really
what happened, but I was just I was shaken by it,
(04:10):
is what I'll say. But one of the reasons I
wanted to talk about this is a when I was
going on a trip with my friends recently, I got
a text from my mom and it was a really
long block of text. My mom is, you know, not
a typical Texter. She shall occasionally text, it's not her
(04:31):
way of communicating. She knows it's what I prefer. But
it opened with I read the book and I immediately
closed to it. I was like, no, no, no, no, I
cannot deal with those right now. But because it was
a huge block of text, and I didn't tell my
friends what happened, because I think it was clear like,
oh wow, she something is, she's stressed out, whatever, And
(04:53):
I was like, she just texted me about the book.
I'm not going to read it. I'm not going to
read it. I'm not going to deal with it right now,
because I've talked about this, Samantha for different reasons, For
very different reasons, I will say you and I kind
of tried to hide this book from our family.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Technically my family doesn't know still, or they haven't told me.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
If they did. Yes, we both, which is sad. It
should be such like a happy I want to share
it with people, but for different reasons, we both were like, no,
I really don't want that, and so I didn't tell her.
She knew it was coming, she knew I had done it.
She would ask about it and I would be very vague.
(05:39):
But then I think she just sort of a she
looked me up online and it was like, here's the book,
because I was there when she did it, and so
then I had to be like, yeah, it's been off
for a while, you know, it's fine, it's fine, and
she immediately ordered it. And then I kind of had
(06:00):
this vague hope of like maybe she won't read it,
like maybe she'll just get it and never read it.
But she read it. She read it, and she was
so nice about it. I eventually I think it was
like everyone had gone to sleep and I was still
awake and I read the text and it was very sweet.
(06:22):
It was like a super kind like bring tears to
your eyes, supportive texts. But and she she was like,
I'm so proud of you. I can't believe who you've become,
like all of these things. But the reason I was
so stressed about, like her reading it was twofold one
was I've like I've come out to her, but never
(06:45):
like super clearly, if that makes sense, Like I've said,
like I've even said I'm asexual, but I think for
some people that doesn't register is queer, that just registers
and stuff. She doesn't want sex, so I think I
had done it. She's very supportive of that stuff, so
I wasn't very worried about it, but it was just
(07:07):
kind of a strange, like I didn't really have this
conversation with you. And then the other chapter was the
rape kit chapter where I talk about being sexually assaulted
in college, which I never told her never. I did
kind of hint at it in one conversation, but I
(07:29):
never told her because I didn't want to talk about it.
It's upsetting clearly, like I don't like talking about it.
I thought she would blame herself and then I was like,
because my parents didn't want me to go to school
in the city, which I think a lot of us
can relate to, right, And it's not that that wasn't
(07:50):
why this happened, but I was worried they'd be like,
which is such a silly worry, But I was worried
they'd be like, see, we told her.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You shouldn't go to this, which has happened to people. Yeah,
so legitimate.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, I think it was more silly, and I don't
think my parents would have done that. I think that
was more of a I felt stupid, and I don't
like feeling stupid. Right, they would have not done that,
but I felt that way, and just the whole thing
fills And this is what I wrote. It's not if
you haven't read the book yet, it is not graphic
(08:25):
in any way. It is not. That is not what
I was going for at all, because and what I
described is kind of this feeling of like remembering a
movie and just like being like, oh, well, that's what
happens on college campus, is right, Oh too bad. I
shouldn't have done that, which I thought was kind of
really very upset. That is incredibly upsetting, but it's not
(08:47):
graphic graphic at all, but she so she had this
whole thing in the text that was like that never
should have happened, so sorry. And the first thing I
wanted to text back was like, it wasn't your fault,
Like no, why am I thinking like this? Oh? But
(09:08):
I was immediately worried that she felt bad, and so
it was like a really supportive text. I feel guilty
I didn't tell her and that she found out about
it like that, But I thought it was pretty telling
that My first thing was like, Okay, I feel I
need to reassure her it's her fault. It's not her fault,
(09:29):
like or else she's gonna feel really bad and it's
gonna be all my fault. And so I get this
thing about self disclosure, and I was reading it and
I was like, yeah, because I wanted to share that.
But I think that's one of the things where it's
(09:50):
complicated because you feel we were just talking about this.
Some days you feel good with that and some days
you don't. And I wanted to share in particular that
instance because it wasn't I mean, I never wouldn't want
to share something graphic, but it was just sort of
more of my feeling I had after than anything else,
(10:12):
But I did feel like I had to share it,
and I think that a lot of people do feel that,
and it's unfortunate because if we don't have these conversations
we've seen like nothing happens our people don't know that
it happens or what's going on. They don't know. But
then when you do, when you get something like me too,
(10:34):
when you have people who are finding this wonderful connection
online and supportiveness online, it's also a pressure to do that,
and then you can get retraumatized. You can have people
who are commenting on your story who don't know you,
and it can happen like anytime you could be just
going about your day, scrolling through I don't know, whatever
(10:56):
you like to look at on social media, and then
you see a comment it's like, oh, I don't believe you,
or there's some kind of comment that will upset you
because you shared the story because you wanted to tell
people the story and hopefully change things or help change things,
or help make things more clear. So that happened to
(11:24):
my mom, and I haven't talked about it yet. I
was just telling you my foot off, calling her that's
part of the reason why we haven't talked about it yet.
I texted back and I was like, thank you for
reading it. I'm going on vacation because she was kind
of like, take care of yourself, do something fun, and
I was like, on it. But when I was, it's
(11:47):
been on my mind. And when I was in Vegas
recently for work, I had this really cathartic dream. And
I know people don't like caring about dreams, but ultimately
what happened is at the end, I was yelling at
a fun like who was kind of hurting herself, sharing
all of her pain with people, like you don't owe
anyone anything, You don't owe anyone anything. And I woke
(12:11):
up like like I needed to have that that moment.
And you know, it's not that I regret it at all.
I think it's just it's it sucks. And you and
I started this journey together as co hosts talking about
this stuff like self disclosing this very painful stuff, and
(12:38):
we thought it was important and we talked about it,
and we were very careful with each other, checking in
on each other, like making sure, Okay, how are you,
how are you? How are you? So I think we
did it well, and we did it looking out and
making sure we weren't doing something that would hurt us
(13:00):
more than it was already gonna hurt because it's painful,
and I never, like, I don't know, I do try
to share the things I feel more like I can
handle this, and there are other things I just won't,
I won't never ever share. And I think about that too,
because I don't know if you remember this, Samantha, but
(13:21):
one of the I think it might have been the
first conference we went to together podcast conference in Orlando,
somebody in an audience asked us, like, where do you
draw that line? Where is the line between I want
to share this because I think it's important and also
(13:42):
I just want someone to know, versus thinking about your
own health. But they also brought up like the health
of the people in your life who might listen to it,
how that might hurt, And I think that was a
more specific family issue she was discussing. I think about
that a lot. I think if at that quite a bit,
(14:04):
And the answer is, you know, it's personal for everyone.
It can change. I do think it's worth examining why
you want to share it and really thinking about what
it will mean for like maybe the worst person to hear.
What would it mean if it's out there they could right,
I don't know, it's complicated, right, I.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Mean, I think it was interesting because it was set
for the four of us, the podcast hosts from Ethnically Ambiguous,
who are great people Sharene and Anna and we did.
We got because we were talking on very personal stories,
both of us with the shows because we had begun again,
Like we talked about our trauma series, us going through
(14:45):
a lot of trauma. And it's interesting when I think
about how far we've come through in understanding our limits.
And I've learned those as I've gotten older because in college,
as a very heavy the Christian teacher, I taught testimonies
are the way to go, and the harsher the story is,
(15:10):
the more likely you're gonna get engagement and people will
trust you. It's literally a voyeuristic field day for people
to hear those who have gone through the worst things cancer, drugs, rape, murder,
like any of those things. And as an adoptee, people
(15:33):
love hearing my pain, and then people love hearing white
people have saved me. And I was a circus show
to prove the value of Christian Saviors, and I never
realized it because I was so engulfed in feeling guilty
(15:55):
in having survivors guild. And we've talked about this so
many times that I old my life by sharing this story,
these stories, and I still feel that guilt. In order
to be taken seriously, in order to be taken seriously
by the crowd of me proving that I have faith,
I had to share the most personal stories to the
(16:17):
point that I worried that people were going to think
that I'm lying. Yeah, and I know we're gonna talk
about this, You're probably gonna talk a little more about
this in a bit, but like, there's so much to
this conversation of who you're doing it for, and as
a person of color, realizing what it was for, realizing
(16:40):
what my story was used for. And yet it included
so much, like it almost included a human drafficking level
of conversation. And then again like the like I've talked
about in the book about an abortion chapter about me
being used as a scapegoat, me being personally told that
I should be of all people uh pro birth, essentially
(17:01):
that I am a horrible hypocrite for not being so
and I bought into that until recently I bought into that,
saying that how could I be You're so right, I
owe this to the people who saved me. And some
people who quote unquote saved me. Are this very people
that I'm hiding the book from, I'm hiding my job from.
(17:24):
They don't ask about my job other than are you
still doing it? Okay? And that's the end. The fact
that they have no clue and I've hit it from
people who I think would accept and be proud of
what I've done just because I don't want them to know,
and not because I'm ashamed, but because I don't want
(17:45):
to fight and I don't want to feel even more
separated from them. But it is. It's this level of
like the self disclosure of what people want to hear,
the voyeuristic level of people thriving and knowing, well, my
life wasn't as bad as hers, thank God, or if
(18:06):
she was really big mess and I'm so much better
off than that, thank God, or look at my people
what we did for her people, she should be so grateful.
That's right, which is one of the big comments that
I've seen recently of adoptees who are trying to find
their identity, criticizing their own upbringing and therefore they are
(18:27):
ungrateful monsters. And I've seen it. I've seen the comments,
which is really hard for me to take because it's personal.
But that's again like that level of self disclosures, like
at what point is it for them more so than
for us?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Right? And that is something to think about when self disclosing,
because people, bad actors will use your story perhaps in
a way you do not want to prove a point
you did not mean. And there are certainly things that
I've been like, okay, I just that's better off never
(19:09):
being said. I'll keep that one to myself. And there
is the worry of like, oh, people won't believe this.
I've definitely had people dismiss me because they're like, but
you seem so okay, and I'm like, right, okay, great,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You've said that I'm fixed.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Thank Yeah. And one time I did and I hate
that I did this, but it just got so frustrated
with somebody who was telling me like he just couldn't
(19:50):
believe there was this level of sexual assault. And that's
every time how I was like, well, let me tell
you about all of this that has happened to me
me and he, like to his credit, was like, oh God,
I'm so sorry, but I should I felt like that
wasn't we shouldn't have to. Yeah, I shouldn't have had to.
(20:11):
And I wish I had. I wish I had it.
I wish I because I don't like that I told
it in that way. It didn't feel like a choice.
It felt like I was so upset. It just came
out like I didn't make the decision to disclose it.
And that's one of the things, like going back to
what that slight article was saying, what they were sort
of warning about, was you know, when you don't realize
(20:35):
maybe the internet is forever, our book is forever, and
you do it that maybe you won't you'd wish you
had it, or maybe you did it in like kind
of an impulse thing and you didn't think it through
all the way. And I wish you had it. I
thought the book, Trust me, I had many times I
could have removed it. So that's not what happened there,
(20:57):
but it in this instance with this person I was
talking to, I wish I hadn't done it like that.
And there's also something that happens that you were kind
of talking about Samantha that I experienced in writing this book.
And I'm not saying it's even wrong, but I'm saying
that it's it encourages you to self disclose. More is
(21:21):
that people would tell me like, oh, that cheft was
really powerful, so powerful, and I'm glad, But then that
makes you feel like, Okay, well, then what else can
I mind and talk about that would be powerful. I'm
to reiterate, I'm not saying that that's bad. I'm just
saying that I think that can put in your mind like, Okay, well,
(21:44):
then I need to talk about the darkest thing that
I can because then I'll get like rewarded for it.
And as you were also saying, kind of not the
same thing, but kind of our internet algorithms also put
that stuff in front of you. They are putting up
that they're giving it a boost, and so that's getting
(22:04):
more traction in something that maybe isn't as upsetting, which
is like kind of losing the whole picture of whatever
you're talking about, and it can lead to that pressure
once again to oh, I've got to share my story. Then,
(22:27):
even if you aren't in a good place too, even
if it will cause you pain and or you feel
bad that you don't because you're seeing like, oh, everyone
else is doing it and they're getting all this like, oh,
you're helping people so much by sharing this and I'm
not sharing it. So what does that say?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So it's just a mess in that way as well.
But it's it's it's complicated because it's also I mean,
we've talked about it. It is powerful to share those things,
especially if we don't talk about a lot, and it's
unfortunate that people have to. I just saw something about
(23:10):
abortion about that because there's a lot of anti abortion
laws being proposed across the US, and people were saying, like,
all of the people who have had abortions and these
terrible experiences not being able to get abortions shouldn't have
to share these stories. But it's kind of urgent and
(23:33):
we need to know. So that once again, just sucks.
That just sucks. Here's another quote from that Slate article.
Further self disclosure can also open the door for more
self disclosure from others. You share your story with someone,
then they share theirs with you. If you are still
struggling with your mental health, you might not have the
(23:53):
capacity to hold these kinds of responses. As powerful as
it may be to know that your story made it
easier for someone else to share. Theirs aren't their therapist,
and their story might trigger components of yours. Trust me
when I say that, as a psychiatrist, listening to other
people's stories, it's one of the hardest things I do,
and I have trained in it. So I want to
include that, not to discourage people from sharing their stories
(24:17):
at all, but it is true that when once again,
sometimes you're going about your day to get an email
and you're like, oh, no, it's about this, and it
depends on your mental stakes. Some days that email will
find me just fine, and it's up to me to
know that it's up to me to know that, like,
do not read this right now. You are not in
(24:38):
the place to do this right now. But that is true,
especially for someone bigger than you, and I like Readney Spears,
where you're just getting bombarded by all of these things
and it's beautiful to share your story, and we always
appreciate people who take the time to do it and
the vulnerability of doing it. But I do think that's
something also to keep in mind when you do self
disclose is people are going to want to do so
(25:01):
with you, right and be ready for that and have
a plan for that right to protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, I think there's another point. I will say, like,
as a person who had a bad habit of this,
because I'm not good at fake answers. So if you
asked me how I was doing, and I'd say I'm
not very good, and I'd be like how's working, I'm like, well,
do you really want to know? And then telling someone
like I've been called out being like you are doing
(25:30):
telling too much. We don't want to hear that. Because
my job was that on a constant level, where I
had story after story after story of heartbreak and trauma
and all these things.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
There's this level of like.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. You don't want me
to talk about this. I'm trying not to. But also,
if you're friends with someone who works in that field,
don't want to ask if you don't want to know, right, Like,
just as much as you think that you know, you
might know, you probably don't. So be aware of that.
(26:04):
A Also for those who live in that world, it's
hard to separate it from everything else. In self disclosure,
that they just This is also why people don't go
out a lot or try to hang out with people
within their own groups. And then when they're in those groups,
if you are not from that world, that world's going
to traumatize you.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So beware.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Speak from experience in which we uh, you know, we
really would have to try to tone it down. But
sometimes it was hard. It's hard. It's hard when you
live in a world of trauma. And I say this
for those who work in hospitals, who are teachers, who
are social workers, who are doctor you know, like all
(26:48):
these different things, nurses, doctors, all the things. If you
were living in a conflict torn world, if you have
family in that world, if you have people that you
know like you know in that world, it's gonna be
hard not to hear it. So there does live like
a middle ground of privilege and a responsibility as well.
So like it's like, yes, for those who of us
(27:10):
who are self disclosing, be aware that things are happening
around the world that not everybody wants to hear about
all the time. But also for those who have never
had to deal with that, like you, maybe it's time
for you to hear that side as well. But yeah,
it's just really hard, it is. And then that therap
has been one hundred percent correct, Like if you're not
ready to hear it, you might not want to disclose it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, that's mostly the point I'm making because because we're
in a public space, it's hard though, so if if
if we talk about it, people are going to respond
to it, that makes sense. So you just have to
be ready. You've got to be ready for that.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And if you know your friends are in a vulnerable state,
asking are you okay not probably the way to go
if you don't want.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
To hear yes, yes, yes, yes, But also to reiterate,
like you listeners have been great. There's nothing you have
done or said. There's no target of this. It's just
something I found interesting when it comes to being in
this space and sharing stuff like that and hearing from
(28:19):
other people. And ultimately it was sort of like I
waited to respond to my mom, but I did read
it within the day and I did respond.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Tell you, that was not recking.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
But I'm also like, she read the book. That's so sweet,
that's so kind. Thank you for reading the book again,
more than anybody from so thanks. My mom was so sweetie. Well, yeah,
(28:55):
those are some thoughts on self disclosure. Like I said
at the top, this is a very specific Like there's
a lot of realms of self disclosure, this was very
specific one, all right, a very personal one. But I'm
sure we'll probably come back in the future to talk
about it. But in the meantime, listeners, if you have
any thoughts about this or any other topics we should
(29:18):
talk about, you can email us at Stephanidia mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
stuff whenever told you. We have a teap public store,
and we do have a book. Yes, you can get
it st wherever you get your books. Thanks as always
to your super producer Christina, are Excited, producer Maya and
our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for
(29:39):
listening Stuff I ever told you this question of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I love good of stuff.
I never told you protection, but iHeartRadio. And today we
are finally coming to an episode I've been hinting app
we've been postponing about self disclosure. In this episode, we're
(00:28):
particularly talking about women in self disclosure, but especially around
things like abortion. I have seen this conversation play out
lately A lot of times we talk about it, even
if we never use this term, specifically in activism space
or the advocacy space. So it is a bigger conversation
(00:50):
than what we're having today, and today is kind of
a more siloed personal one that I've been thinking about.
And then the algorithm was like, you've been thinking about this.
I was like, oh no, I'm creeped out that you
know that, but I have, I know, just to put
that out there. Content warning, we are talking about sexual
(01:11):
assought and trauma. Uh, take care of yourselves. I don't
think we're going to go to in depth, but maybe
more in depth than we would normally go when we
say stuff like that. So just to put that out there.
So one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this,
And note I have not read this, but a lot
of quotes are about it is that Britney Spears had
(01:33):
a memoir come out recently and there were some very
upsetting things that she talked about and shared in it,
and so I got served via the algorithm. This article
from Slate that was about self disclosure and kind of
the pros and cons of self disclosure and self disclosure
(01:55):
is essentially what it sounds like like, you're disclosing something
about yourself. Well, okay, here's a quote from Slate. Sharing
a mental health experience or a hardship like a pregnancy
loss is called self disclosure. You can self disclose to
a friend or family member or to the whole world,
but it involves deeply personal details, though it is far
from easy and should be done with care. The aftermath
(02:18):
of self disclosure can include any emotion, from joy to sadness,
to grief to anger. Telling your story in public, especially
over and over again, has the potential to make anyone
re experience, even be re traumatized by events of the past.
So we're going to talk about that more in a second.
But the quote goes on further. No one can control
(02:41):
how others will respond to the disclosure. The person sharing
may turn inward on themselves with negative self talk as
a result of someone else's take on their story or
a clicky headline cavalierly summing up their terrible experience. It's
impossible to know what Brittany is going through as her
stories reverberate, though her most recent Instagram posts might give
as a hint that it's really really tough. But I
(03:03):
worry about our experience of self disclosing such personal details,
given that she has gone through so much and likely
still is going through a lot. This concern is something
I have for my own patients too. They are not
global pop sensations, and most of them will probably never
write a memoir, but many of them talk to me
about a desire to share. I treat a lot of
college students, and they are on TikTok and other social
(03:25):
media platforms. Their posts can draw attention from people they
do not know in person, and sometimes in unexpectedly huge numbers.
So I was thinking about this, and it's kind of
funny because I think I've had this episode planned for
a while. So I think the episode I did that
replaced this one originally the Happy Hour, where I was
(03:47):
just an anxious mess and I was talking about fan
fiction and how I don't understand relationships at all. It
kind of relates to that quote about like you can
never when people are interpreting or commenting on some thing
that feels very personal to you and you getting hurt
by that or confused by that, which is not really
what happened, but I was just I was shaken by it,
(04:10):
is what I'll say. But one of the reasons I
wanted to talk about this is a when I was
going on a trip with my friends recently, I got
a text from my mom and it was a really
long block of text. My mom is, you know, not
a typical Texter. She shall occasionally text, it's not her
(04:31):
way of communicating. She knows it's what I prefer. But
it opened with I read the book and I immediately
closed to it. I was like, no, no, no, no, I
cannot deal with those right now. But because it was
a huge block of text, and I didn't tell my
friends what happened, because I think it was clear like,
oh wow, she something is, she's stressed out, whatever, And
(04:53):
I was like, she just texted me about the book.
I'm not going to read it. I'm not going to
read it. I'm not going to deal with it right now,
because I've talked about this, Samantha for different reasons, For
very different reasons, I will say you and I kind
of tried to hide this book from our family.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Technically my family doesn't know still, or they haven't told me.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
If they did. Yes, we both, which is sad. It
should be such like a happy I want to share
it with people, but for different reasons, we both were like, no,
I really don't want that, and so I didn't tell her.
She knew it was coming, she knew I had done it.
She would ask about it and I would be very vague.
(05:39):
But then I think she just sort of a she
looked me up online and it was like, here's the book,
because I was there when she did it, and so
then I had to be like, yeah, it's been off
for a while, you know, it's fine, it's fine, and
she immediately ordered it. And then I kind of had
(06:00):
this vague hope of like maybe she won't read it,
like maybe she'll just get it and never read it.
But she read it. She read it, and she was
so nice about it. I eventually I think it was
like everyone had gone to sleep and I was still
awake and I read the text and it was very sweet.
(06:22):
It was like a super kind like bring tears to
your eyes, supportive texts. But and she she was like,
I'm so proud of you. I can't believe who you've become,
like all of these things. But the reason I was
so stressed about, like her reading it was twofold one
was I've like I've come out to her, but never
(06:45):
like super clearly, if that makes sense, Like I've said,
like I've even said I'm asexual, but I think for
some people that doesn't register is queer, that just registers
and stuff. She doesn't want sex, so I think I
had done it. She's very supportive of that stuff, so
I wasn't very worried about it, but it was just
(07:07):
kind of a strange, like I didn't really have this
conversation with you. And then the other chapter was the
rape kit chapter where I talk about being sexually assaulted
in college, which I never told her never. I did
kind of hint at it in one conversation, but I
(07:29):
never told her because I didn't want to talk about it.
It's upsetting clearly, like I don't like talking about it.
I thought she would blame herself and then I was like,
because my parents didn't want me to go to school
in the city, which I think a lot of us
can relate to, right, And it's not that that wasn't
(07:50):
why this happened, but I was worried they'd be like,
which is such a silly worry, But I was worried
they'd be like, see, we told her.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You shouldn't go to this, which has happened to people. Yeah,
so legitimate.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, I think it was more silly, and I don't
think my parents would have done that. I think that
was more of a I felt stupid, and I don't
like feeling stupid. Right, they would have not done that,
but I felt that way, and just the whole thing
fills And this is what I wrote. It's not if
you haven't read the book yet, it is not graphic
(08:25):
in any way. It is not. That is not what
I was going for at all, because and what I
described is kind of this feeling of like remembering a
movie and just like being like, oh, well, that's what
happens on college campus, is right, Oh too bad. I
shouldn't have done that, which I thought was kind of
really very upset. That is incredibly upsetting, but it's not
(08:47):
graphic graphic at all, but she so she had this
whole thing in the text that was like that never
should have happened, so sorry. And the first thing I
wanted to text back was like, it wasn't your fault,
Like no, why am I thinking like this? Oh? But
(09:08):
I was immediately worried that she felt bad, and so
it was like a really supportive text. I feel guilty
I didn't tell her and that she found out about
it like that, But I thought it was pretty telling
that My first thing was like, Okay, I feel I
need to reassure her it's her fault. It's not her fault,
(09:29):
like or else she's gonna feel really bad and it's
gonna be all my fault. And so I get this
thing about self disclosure, and I was reading it and
I was like, yeah, because I wanted to share that.
But I think that's one of the things where it's
(09:50):
complicated because you feel we were just talking about this.
Some days you feel good with that and some days
you don't. And I wanted to share in particular that
instance because it wasn't I mean, I never wouldn't want
to share something graphic, but it was just sort of
more of my feeling I had after than anything else,
(10:12):
But I did feel like I had to share it,
and I think that a lot of people do feel that,
and it's unfortunate because if we don't have these conversations
we've seen like nothing happens our people don't know that
it happens or what's going on. They don't know. But
then when you do, when you get something like me too,
(10:34):
when you have people who are finding this wonderful connection
online and supportiveness online, it's also a pressure to do that,
and then you can get retraumatized. You can have people
who are commenting on your story who don't know you,
and it can happen like anytime you could be just
going about your day, scrolling through I don't know, whatever
(10:56):
you like to look at on social media, and then
you see a comment it's like, oh, I don't believe you,
or there's some kind of comment that will upset you
because you shared the story because you wanted to tell
people the story and hopefully change things or help change things,
or help make things more clear. So that happened to
(11:24):
my mom, and I haven't talked about it yet. I
was just telling you my foot off, calling her that's
part of the reason why we haven't talked about it yet.
I texted back and I was like, thank you for
reading it. I'm going on vacation because she was kind
of like, take care of yourself, do something fun, and
I was like, on it. But when I was, it's
(11:47):
been on my mind. And when I was in Vegas
recently for work, I had this really cathartic dream. And
I know people don't like caring about dreams, but ultimately
what happened is at the end, I was yelling at
a fun like who was kind of hurting herself, sharing
all of her pain with people, like you don't owe
anyone anything, You don't owe anyone anything. And I woke
(12:11):
up like like I needed to have that that moment.
And you know, it's not that I regret it at all.
I think it's just it's it sucks. And you and
I started this journey together as co hosts talking about
this stuff like self disclosing this very painful stuff, and
(12:38):
we thought it was important and we talked about it,
and we were very careful with each other, checking in
on each other, like making sure, Okay, how are you,
how are you? How are you? So I think we
did it well, and we did it looking out and
making sure we weren't doing something that would hurt us
(13:00):
more than it was already gonna hurt because it's painful,
and I never, like, I don't know, I do try
to share the things I feel more like I can
handle this, and there are other things I just won't,
I won't never ever share. And I think about that too,
because I don't know if you remember this, Samantha, but
(13:21):
one of the I think it might have been the
first conference we went to together podcast conference in Orlando,
somebody in an audience asked us, like, where do you
draw that line? Where is the line between I want
to share this because I think it's important and also
(13:42):
I just want someone to know, versus thinking about your
own health. But they also brought up like the health
of the people in your life who might listen to it,
how that might hurt, And I think that was a
more specific family issue she was discussing. I think about
that a lot. I think if at that quite a bit,
(14:04):
And the answer is, you know, it's personal for everyone.
It can change. I do think it's worth examining why
you want to share it and really thinking about what
it will mean for like maybe the worst person to hear.
What would it mean if it's out there they could right,
I don't know, it's complicated, right, I.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Mean, I think it was interesting because it was set
for the four of us, the podcast hosts from Ethnically Ambiguous,
who are great people Sharene and Anna and we did.
We got because we were talking on very personal stories,
both of us with the shows because we had begun again,
Like we talked about our trauma series, us going through
(14:45):
a lot of trauma. And it's interesting when I think
about how far we've come through in understanding our limits.
And I've learned those as I've gotten older because in college,
as a very heavy the Christian teacher, I taught testimonies
are the way to go, and the harsher the story is,
(15:10):
the more likely you're gonna get engagement and people will
trust you. It's literally a voyeuristic field day for people
to hear those who have gone through the worst things cancer, drugs, rape, murder,
like any of those things. And as an adoptee, people
(15:33):
love hearing my pain, and then people love hearing white
people have saved me. And I was a circus show
to prove the value of Christian Saviors, and I never
realized it because I was so engulfed in feeling guilty
(15:55):
in having survivors guild. And we've talked about this so
many times that I old my life by sharing this story,
these stories, and I still feel that guilt. In order
to be taken seriously, in order to be taken seriously
by the crowd of me proving that I have faith,
I had to share the most personal stories to the
(16:17):
point that I worried that people were going to think
that I'm lying. Yeah, and I know we're gonna talk
about this, You're probably gonna talk a little more about
this in a bit, but like, there's so much to
this conversation of who you're doing it for, and as
a person of color, realizing what it was for, realizing
(16:40):
what my story was used for. And yet it included
so much, like it almost included a human drafficking level
of conversation. And then again like the like I've talked
about in the book about an abortion chapter about me
being used as a scapegoat, me being personally told that
I should be of all people uh pro birth, essentially
(17:01):
that I am a horrible hypocrite for not being so
and I bought into that until recently I bought into that,
saying that how could I be You're so right, I
owe this to the people who saved me. And some
people who quote unquote saved me. Are this very people
that I'm hiding the book from, I'm hiding my job from.
(17:24):
They don't ask about my job other than are you
still doing it? Okay? And that's the end. The fact
that they have no clue and I've hit it from
people who I think would accept and be proud of
what I've done just because I don't want them to know,
and not because I'm ashamed, but because I don't want
(17:45):
to fight and I don't want to feel even more
separated from them. But it is. It's this level of
like the self disclosure of what people want to hear,
the voyeuristic level of people thriving and knowing, well, my
life wasn't as bad as hers, thank God, or if
(18:06):
she was really big mess and I'm so much better
off than that, thank God, or look at my people
what we did for her people, she should be so grateful.
That's right, which is one of the big comments that
I've seen recently of adoptees who are trying to find
their identity, criticizing their own upbringing and therefore they are
(18:27):
ungrateful monsters. And I've seen it. I've seen the comments,
which is really hard for me to take because it's personal.
But that's again like that level of self disclosures, like
at what point is it for them more so than
for us?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Right? And that is something to think about when self disclosing,
because people, bad actors will use your story perhaps in
a way you do not want to prove a point
you did not mean. And there are certainly things that
I've been like, okay, I just that's better off never
(19:09):
being said. I'll keep that one to myself. And there
is the worry of like, oh, people won't believe this.
I've definitely had people dismiss me because they're like, but
you seem so okay, and I'm like, right, okay, great,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You've said that I'm fixed.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Thank Yeah. And one time I did and I hate
that I did this, but it just got so frustrated
with somebody who was telling me like he just couldn't
(19:50):
believe there was this level of sexual assault. And that's
every time how I was like, well, let me tell
you about all of this that has happened to me
me and he, like to his credit, was like, oh God,
I'm so sorry, but I should I felt like that
wasn't we shouldn't have to. Yeah, I shouldn't have had to.
(20:11):
And I wish I had. I wish I had it.
I wish I because I don't like that I told
it in that way. It didn't feel like a choice.
It felt like I was so upset. It just came
out like I didn't make the decision to disclose it.
And that's one of the things, like going back to
what that slight article was saying, what they were sort
of warning about, was you know, when you don't realize
(20:35):
maybe the internet is forever, our book is forever, and
you do it that maybe you won't you'd wish you
had it, or maybe you did it in like kind
of an impulse thing and you didn't think it through
all the way. And I wish you had it. I
thought the book, Trust me, I had many times I
could have removed it. So that's not what happened there,
(20:57):
but it in this instance with this person I was
talking to, I wish I hadn't done it like that.
And there's also something that happens that you were kind
of talking about Samantha that I experienced in writing this book.
And I'm not saying it's even wrong, but I'm saying
that it's it encourages you to self disclose. More is
(21:21):
that people would tell me like, oh, that cheft was
really powerful, so powerful, and I'm glad, But then that
makes you feel like, Okay, well, then what else can
I mind and talk about that would be powerful. I'm
to reiterate, I'm not saying that that's bad. I'm just
saying that I think that can put in your mind like, Okay, well,
(21:44):
then I need to talk about the darkest thing that
I can because then I'll get like rewarded for it.
And as you were also saying, kind of not the
same thing, but kind of our internet algorithms also put
that stuff in front of you. They are putting up
that they're giving it a boost, and so that's getting
(22:04):
more traction in something that maybe isn't as upsetting, which
is like kind of losing the whole picture of whatever
you're talking about, and it can lead to that pressure
once again to oh, I've got to share my story. Then,
(22:27):
even if you aren't in a good place too, even
if it will cause you pain and or you feel
bad that you don't because you're seeing like, oh, everyone
else is doing it and they're getting all this like, oh,
you're helping people so much by sharing this and I'm
not sharing it. So what does that say?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So it's just a mess in that way as well.
But it's it's it's complicated because it's also I mean,
we've talked about it. It is powerful to share those things,
especially if we don't talk about a lot, and it's
unfortunate that people have to. I just saw something about
(23:10):
abortion about that because there's a lot of anti abortion
laws being proposed across the US, and people were saying, like,
all of the people who have had abortions and these
terrible experiences not being able to get abortions shouldn't have
to share these stories. But it's kind of urgent and
(23:33):
we need to know. So that once again, just sucks.
That just sucks. Here's another quote from that Slate article.
Further self disclosure can also open the door for more
self disclosure from others. You share your story with someone,
then they share theirs with you. If you are still
struggling with your mental health, you might not have the
(23:53):
capacity to hold these kinds of responses. As powerful as
it may be to know that your story made it
easier for someone else to share. Theirs aren't their therapist,
and their story might trigger components of yours. Trust me
when I say that, as a psychiatrist, listening to other
people's stories, it's one of the hardest things I do,
and I have trained in it. So I want to
include that, not to discourage people from sharing their stories
(24:17):
at all, but it is true that when once again,
sometimes you're going about your day to get an email
and you're like, oh, no, it's about this, and it
depends on your mental stakes. Some days that email will
find me just fine, and it's up to me to
know that it's up to me to know that, like,
do not read this right now. You are not in
(24:38):
the place to do this right now. But that is true,
especially for someone bigger than you, and I like Readney Spears,
where you're just getting bombarded by all of these things
and it's beautiful to share your story, and we always
appreciate people who take the time to do it and
the vulnerability of doing it. But I do think that's
something also to keep in mind when you do self
disclose is people are going to want to do so
(25:01):
with you, right and be ready for that and have
a plan for that right to protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, I think there's another point. I will say, like,
as a person who had a bad habit of this,
because I'm not good at fake answers. So if you
asked me how I was doing, and I'd say I'm
not very good, and I'd be like how's working, I'm like, well,
do you really want to know? And then telling someone
like I've been called out being like you are doing
(25:30):
telling too much. We don't want to hear that. Because
my job was that on a constant level, where I
had story after story after story of heartbreak and trauma
and all these things.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
There's this level of like.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. You don't want me
to talk about this. I'm trying not to. But also,
if you're friends with someone who works in that field,
don't want to ask if you don't want to know, right, Like,
just as much as you think that you know, you
might know, you probably don't. So be aware of that.
(26:04):
A Also for those who live in that world, it's
hard to separate it from everything else. In self disclosure,
that they just This is also why people don't go
out a lot or try to hang out with people
within their own groups. And then when they're in those groups,
if you are not from that world, that world's going
to traumatize you.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So beware.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Speak from experience in which we uh, you know, we
really would have to try to tone it down. But
sometimes it was hard. It's hard. It's hard when you
live in a world of trauma. And I say this
for those who work in hospitals, who are teachers, who
are social workers, who are doctor you know, like all
(26:48):
these different things, nurses, doctors, all the things. If you
were living in a conflict torn world, if you have
family in that world, if you have people that you
know like you know in that world, it's gonna be
hard not to hear it. So there does live like
a middle ground of privilege and a responsibility as well.
So like it's like, yes, for those who of us
(27:10):
who are self disclosing, be aware that things are happening
around the world that not everybody wants to hear about
all the time. But also for those who have never
had to deal with that, like you, maybe it's time
for you to hear that side as well. But yeah,
it's just really hard, it is. And then that therap
has been one hundred percent correct, Like if you're not
ready to hear it, you might not want to disclose it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, that's mostly the point I'm making because because we're
in a public space, it's hard though, so if if
if we talk about it, people are going to respond
to it, that makes sense. So you just have to
be ready. You've got to be ready for that.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And if you know your friends are in a vulnerable state,
asking are you okay not probably the way to go
if you don't want.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
To hear yes, yes, yes, yes, But also to reiterate,
like you listeners have been great. There's nothing you have
done or said. There's no target of this. It's just
something I found interesting when it comes to being in
this space and sharing stuff like that and hearing from
(28:19):
other people. And ultimately it was sort of like I
waited to respond to my mom, but I did read
it within the day and I did respond.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Tell you, that was not recking.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
But I'm also like, she read the book. That's so sweet,
that's so kind. Thank you for reading the book again,
more than anybody from so thanks. My mom was so sweetie. Well, yeah,
(28:55):
those are some thoughts on self disclosure. Like I said
at the top, this is a very specific Like there's
a lot of realms of self disclosure, this was very
specific one, all right, a very personal one. But I'm
sure we'll probably come back in the future to talk
about it. But in the meantime, listeners, if you have
any thoughts about this or any other topics we should
(29:18):
talk about, you can email us at Stephanidia mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
stuff whenever told you. We have a teap public store,
and we do have a book. Yes, you can get
it st wherever you get your books. Thanks as always
to your super producer Christina, are Excited, producer Maya and
our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for
(29:39):
listening Stuff I ever told you this question of iHeartRadio.
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