July 13, 2026 • 43 mins
In this classic, we talk about the award-winning 2020 documentary Crip Camp: A Disability Revolution is a moving, open and personal take on the determination, difficulties and successes of a group of people growing up in the disability rights movement, what they accomplished, and the importance of inclusivity.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Smantha. I'm o good stuff.
I never told you approctive, I hearted you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And for this classic we are bringing back our feminist
Movie Friday we did on cript Camp because yes, it's
great documentary. Go watch it if you haven't seen it already,
But it came up in our recent update on Disability
Pride Month and what's going on, so I thought we
would bring it back.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Did you know there's an actual follow up with it
to that that we might have to watch? It follows
the couple from that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I think
we're going to have to come back and watch that
one soon.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Just FYI another thing to add to the list.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes, all right, Well, in the meantime, please enjoy this
classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome
to Stephan never told you a protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And welcome to another edition of Feminist Movie.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
And then whatever day you're listening to a guess, technically
this is being released on a Wednesday, so it's no
longer a Feminist Movie Friday.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
But you don't Also, you may not be listening on
a Wednesday. Who knows, right, it's.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
True, we have no control over this. You can insert
whatever day of the week that you're listening to it,
and that's perfectly fine.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Yes, And we talked about this on our last movie,
and we wanted to come back and make sure that
we do a viewing and have a conversation. But we
are talking about the amazing documentary crypt Camp Disability Revolution.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
But before we.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Start, Annie, I do need to ask did you do
camps as a good Did you go to like these
little summer camps?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Funny you should ask that because I just had a
conversation with my friends about how there's like very jokingly
camp kids and non camp kids.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I did not do it.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I as as I have said today, the reasons might
be different. I do not sleep well around other people.
That sounded like a nightmare to me. I did like
the idea of like learning how to tye nots or shoot.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Bow and arrows or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But I feel like a lot of movies about camp
that I watched as a kid did not make it
seem like an experience I would enjoy. It sounded like
there's gonna be a lot of pranks and I was
gonna be terrified andred for life.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Oh no, I think it's forting to what kind of
camp you go to.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I will say that I did go to a couple
of church camps, and it was very rare that I
went because they were expensive. But I also thought was
one of those that thought camp was kind of not useless.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
But just like, why why would I do this?
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Why would I go away into a strange place and
pay all this money to do things like eat the
food that I don't like, being in the woods, getting
eaten up by bugs, like all of these things. But
I really liked the ones that I was able to
do things. I went to a church camp that went
and built homes throughout the towns under privileged areas. I
(03:13):
loved that. That part of it was so much fun,
and I built a lot of friendships based on it.
I guess I went to several because after I went
to one of them, I went to several because I
love the aspect of going to build and do things
all day long and enjoy those times. Of course, the
first one was amazing, so I wanted to relive that
one over and over and over again. That didn't happen,
but I had some really good experiences, But I wouldn't
(03:35):
say that it was my cup of tea I like
camping to a certain degree, but yeah, I would always
be exhausted when I left, But.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Like I said, I did build some bonds.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
And I'm really excited about this documentary because that's kind
of where we see this type of camp going. But yeah,
so we are talking about the Sun Dance Award winning,
Slash Oscar nominated documentary Crypt Camp a Disability Revolution, which
was released in twenty twenty, directed by Nicole Newnham and
James le Brett, who was a camper himself at what
(04:10):
we are calling it crypt Camp or crypt Janade, and
it was also executive produced by the Obamas, Michelle and Barack.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It was it was and we mentioned this not only
in a recent feminist movie Friday, I think also in
our recent book Club, but in our Ada, our breakdown
on the Ada, we talked about coming back to discuss
this movie. It's on Netflix, is streaming. If you haven't
seen it, want to watch it. Not currently a sponsor,
but just letting you know. The documentary follows le Brett,
(04:42):
Judith Human, Denise Cherr, Jacobson, Nancy Rosenblum, Nancy Dangelo, Anna Coupolo, Freeman,
Ellie Abrashknjeane Mala Frante, Steve Hoffman, Michael Tannenbaum, Al Levy,
and others who attended as campers at Camp Jenaide, a
camp led by Larry Allison, who was the camp director.
We also got to meet staffers like Lionel, Joe Woodyard,
(05:05):
Joseph O'Connor, and people who are on site to document
the film with the People's Video Theater, like Howard Gustadt,
who was able to get footage of the times and
discussion throughout the camp.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So that was really cool, actually.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Right, I Honestly, the first thing I thought was like,
what an amazing thing that they were able to get
this on film and have such an open, honest conversation
and was able to get that and restore that and
be able to show that to others, because it was
a phenomenal idea and you don't see that, you know,
We've talked about this many times when we think of
historical figures and historical events that we don't get to
(05:41):
see or have actual proof of.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
What happened there.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
And to have like a first person contact to see
what is happening and what has happened, it's phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, Yeah, and it was very like a moment in
time captured because I was like, really, well, this is seventies,
Oh I feel it.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
I loved seeing them in their prom and now filling
themselves and exploring that. I wonder how they turned out
as adults because they still follow with that.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yes, and we got to see some so answers to
that question.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, the film was fifteen years in the making with
campger Lebritt, who has spined bitheta as a director and
narrator throughout the documentary. And yes, it was premiered at
the twenty twenty Sun Dance Festival. Camp Jeanette was founded
in nineteen fifty two in the Catskills and was shut
down in nineteen seventy seven. And this is where a
(06:32):
majority of it takes place, or where a lot of
like the blossoming of this activism that we see right.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
And I think it's partially because a Lebret who came
in later is the one that says the tone of
how he got to be a part of that and seeing.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
That as well.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
And then if I am correct, I don't know what
is happening with Kim Jeannette right now, but there's a
lot of conversation about things with cryp camp and how
that's kind of blossomed a new movement in twenty twenty
as well, so it's good to see how it kind
of picks back up. But the documentary, as we are discussing,
shows the impact of Campjenet and the campers who could
escape the world and go to their personal quote Woodstock,
(07:11):
as one of the campers say, there the campers were
able to live as they wanted, hooking up with some
of the other campers, maybe for the first time, getting girlfriends,
getting boyfriends, having all this new romance, playing and truly
competing with each other. There was a line when they
talked about for the first time, not only were they
picked to be on their team, you had to and
if you got out, you got out.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
This is not about pity.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
This is about good, friendly competition, being treated as one
of the teammates, and then you get to see them
making their own decisions, but also get access to actual
help from people not just being left and being able
to speak about the issues from being treated differently by
the outside world or by their parents, and or disciplined differently,
(07:54):
or even completely having to be reliant on their parents
and therefore having to act differently than other teams, kids
trying to obtain autonomy and just being able to live
their lives and the discussions they had poured out in
the real world. Of course, we're kind of jumping over
a lot of the things, the personal connections and just
the love that happens at the camp, and we don't
want to do that, but you really should go and
(08:16):
watch it because it's a deep account of who they
are as an individual and being able to sit and
discuss what they feel like they needed and how they're
often shut down. And we're going to talk a little
bit more about this later in the themes because we
think it's really important, but it is really just eye
opening to have them being able to speak up for themselves,
(08:39):
to truly air out the frustrations, and to be able
to do it with people who understand them. As Lebret
talked about how in his hometown or at his school,
he's the only one with a disability who was disabled
in the friend group. He has a great friend group.
But then coming back and realizing, oh, I do have
these concerns, or I do have this moment of trying
(09:00):
to figure myself out and angst and anger and trying
to pretend, uh, you know, that it doesn't exist on
this level, and or being.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Isolated because of it.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
He talks about that and again talks about his own
family and his relationship with his mom.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
You see that when we talk about the layer of hierarchy.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
When it comes to disabilities and types of disabilities and
then breaking that down in this conversation. So it's a
really beautiful time. Again they're having a democracy. We see
a young Judith Human who takes on the net as
a leader, but trying to do it democratically. To giving
everybody your voice, whether it's about food, whether it's about
you know, sleeping, Like all of these things is a
(09:41):
beautiful thing to see as you get to watch them
in the moment of the camps was nice. And also
the crabs incident and if you don't know what I'm
talking about.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
You need to watch it.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Yes, it's like just such a realistic hit is this
is great? And yes, like I said, the discussion had
does pour out into the real world as due to
Human and so many from the camp continue in taking
their discussions into action. Human's own lawsuit against the New
York Board of Education was highlighted as part of the
catalyst in the disability movement and political protests which you
(10:15):
see later on in the film as they continue to
build up to being able to advocate for themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Right and as we did discuss in our Ada episode,
the movement was heated with sit ins, protests, and political
debates and negotiations. The documentary follows different approaches in the
disability activists, including the five ZO four sit in in
San Diego in nineteen seventy seven, which spread to Washington,
d C. To pressure the then administration to define federal
(10:43):
guidelines around the Discrimination Act and to push for the
civil rights of all disabled people. And it was during
this time that supporters from other movements such as the
Black Panthers came and drove to not only show support,
but also provided items such as meals and services for
those protesting right.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
It was really interesting to watch the different people and
organizations that would reach out and making sure that they
were able to support them as In fact, during that time,
one activist asked members of the Black Panthers, why are
you doing this? And they're like, we see you, we
know what it's like to be here, and we have
to fight with each other.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
This is what we're about and I love that.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
So the documentary continued following individuals as they were going
through their own private journeys, such as Denise Shear Jacobson,
who talked about her life as a disability educator and
as a specialist in human sexuality, which she talks about
how she got there, which was pretty much what we've
talked about before, how oftentimes people with disabilities are dismissed
(11:43):
when it comes to sexuality and disregarded completely and seeing
as completely asexual. And I'm saying that in the literal definition,
not necessarily a sexuality definition, but that's one of the
things that.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
They state, and she kind of pushed through.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
She was like, Nah, no, needy to get mine. I'm
going to get in mine. And she talked about her
experience of actually being pregnant, but because the doctors did
not see her as a sexual being or someone who
could be sexual, they dismissed that altogether, and that really
pushed her forward into this profession and just being an
activist for disabled community. And she talked about how she
(12:20):
pushed to defy expectations when so many underestimated, including being
in a relationship and growing with her family and being
a professional who made it out into the world and
really became an icon in education, especially within the disabled
community as well as the education community. So the documentary
(12:42):
continues as Human and her organization, Disabled An Action, continued
their fight, including the Capital Crawl in the nineties, which was,
of course, if we talked about this earlier, a demonstration
of inaccessibility and no access for those with disabilities, which
made a huge impact because we still talk about it today.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yes, and later we see a reunion with several of
the old camp goers with Human, the Brects, Jacobson and
a few others at the old camp site reminiscing about
the past, and it was a very powerful right to
see them reuniting and reminiscing about the people they've lost
and the people who are still there and why it
was so important this camp.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Right one of the campgoers children came through to celebrate
the camp as well, and it was a heartwarming moment
where she got to see where some of the defying
moments for her father.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Was there in that area. So it was a beautiful ending.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
But of course with that, throughout the movie you see
that as much as they do progress, they do feel
like they're being pushed back in some of the progress,
and as we're talking about today, we know.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
That's still a big issue.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
As many things that have happened, there have been setbacks,
as many good things have happened with the ADA, there's
a lot of things that are problematic within the ADA,
and we needed to talk about that as well and
who it applies to, who gets access and honestly that
some of the conversations that we're having with them just
venting and airing out the issues that they dealt with
(14:12):
in everyday life haven't gone away unfortunately, but they definitely
did a lot to make sure to bring some awareness
and some step forward. But yeah, if you haven't seen
this documentary, you should definitely check it out. We did
(14:40):
want to go on with some themes of the documentary
because I think it's really important that we highlight and
talk about how they have impacted and this movement impacted
all of society and all of us as a community,
and just understanding we need to pushing for human rights.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
And one of the big themes.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Is of course the history of those with disabilities, the
rights of disabilities, civil rights within disability communities, as well
as just being able to be heard and I thought
it was really good how they actually just backtracked and
talked about it from almost beginning to end, including some
(15:20):
of the horrific things such as that we've talked about
the Willebrook Institute and how horrible that discovery was, and
it really kind of opened up, I guess the public
to see how horrific some of the people with disabilities
were being treated.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, I mean it's such a great, vulnerable personal look
at the progress that the disability movement has had and
how hard they've had to fight, and a lot of
it watching it felt so frustrating because what they were
saying just made sense. Of course, you should have access
(16:02):
to being able to live by yourself, being able to
access public transportation, being able to get into public buildings,
like all of these things that they were having to
fight so hard, and that you know, the camp.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It was so.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Kind of heartbreaking but also heartwarming to talk about how
much they loved that camp because they would go and
it was like the first time they just felt like
they didn't have to fit into society's rules or like
make people feel comfortable, that they could just be themselves
and talk to other people. And that's why it was
so important to them and it was so life changing. Yeah,
(16:43):
and I think an experience like that clearly carried through
into right this movement because it was like a glimpse
of well, no, we should.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Have had this all right.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
I mean, we already talked about the ablest idea of
dismissing those with disabilities, thinking that they're not able to
think for themselves or do for themselves, so therefore their
lacking and shouldn't have an opinion, which I think human
does an amazing job in making sure. At that camp
she was like, no, you will have a part in this,
and you will have a voice in this, and we
will allow you to speak and have a voice here.
(17:18):
And I love that, in which she felt just rightly,
so should be everywhere, should be outside of just the
safe space of Kemp Janet. But yeah, one of the
things they talked about was the fact that the ADA
had not passed at that point in time, and there
was no anti discrimination laws in place for those with disabilities,
and when they went into town being denied at places
(17:40):
because they made people uncomfortable, they made customers uncomfortable, and
that in itself was such a statement.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Of course, this was one of the counselors.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Who was an African American man who had come out
of Alabama to hang out Jay Woodyard, I believe, and
he was talking about you know, and at that point
in time, I understood, because we knew we had to
be in our place and not to make people uncomfortable
because if we didn't, they could be dangerous for us
as well. And he was talking in comparison about how
important seeing this level was and how yes, it was
(18:12):
similar to each other, and we had so much to
push forward and trying to get beyond just existing and
existing quietly or disappearing in the corner. And I thought
that was impactful. Yeah, one of the things that we
talked about with the personal history is just the basic
human rights, just being able to exist wherever and not
(18:33):
being told you shouldn't be here because you make this
awkward or you make me feel some sort of way.
And at one point time when they were talking about
the five o four protests, she was talking about the
fact one of the protesters was talking about the fact,
you know, this was really uncomfortable and people don't want
to see us, And honestly, when it comes down to it,
she quotes as saying the world always wants us dead.
(18:56):
Disable people know that every day of our lives lived
that reality, so there's always going to be am I
going to survive?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Am I going to push back? Or am I going
to fight to be here?
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Just talking about the fact that, yeah, honestly, during that time,
society had this whole don't look, don't tell, don't see,
don't you know, don't hear type of conversation, which is
why the institutions like Willobrook existed, to just push them
aside and be ignored, which is so.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Cruel.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
And she was talking about that fight, like you know,
it was one of those things whether it's going to
make us angry or is it going to make us fight,
and talking about the fact that, yeah, we're gonna fight,
and you're going to see that we exist and when
you ignore us, yes, death happens. Things that you don't
want to see or think about happens, but it's going
to be there, and yeah, we're not disappearing, which I
thought was an important conversation that they were having.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
That they were like, we're here and you see the interviews.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Throughout their times, and I thought that was interesting. And
of course another with the history of it is during
the camp what impacted something that was like wow, was
talking about the right of privacy, which I know we
take I take for granted.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, there were so many conversations that felt like a
gift to see, not only because I was like, oh, wow,
they got they still have this footage from you know,
this time period, but just being so open and vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And in the face of.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Real callousness from like government officials, especially towards the end,
where they're just like it's going to cost too much
in no way to give you.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Your basic right now. But yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
The they discussed all of these ideas and concerns and
things that they had to deal with since childhood, around
their lives in privacy, around having to depend on others
when that didn't have to be the case, but like
(20:55):
particularly their parents perhaps, and just their lives kind of
being up for the judgment from everybody, like everybody being like, oh,
you must be sick, Oh there must be something wrong
with you. Right, I don't want to be involved because
you must be sick, which is wrong and gross. Right.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Well yeah, and also just like as you were talking about,
you know, having to depend on everyone else. They were
talking about the fact that you know, at one point
one of the campers had to depend on someone else
to translate for her, and then that person who translates, like,
I feel like this is what she's trying to say.
And what we're talking about right now is being able
(21:38):
to be alone, not having to be completely monitored all
the time. We don't have that freedom, and it feels
we don't have privacy anymore. I can't be alone to
dress myself because don't want trusts that I'm going to
do that to you know, like all of these things
or for those like having to deal with the fact that, yeah,
(21:58):
Lebrec talked about how you gone through surgery and having
to wear diapers and that was just a level of
vulnerability that he wasn't ready for and coming to a
camp and you know, you know the stigma that but
this was a different camp where people everybody was like, yeah,
we understand this, we know the struggle and then be
given access care as well as still being treated as
(22:19):
a full fleshed human instead of being and vantialized because
of their disabilities. So it was a really big eye
opener to that. Of course, as we talked about earlier
the crab incident sexuality and how it was a joke
and I laughed.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It was pretty funny in that.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
They're like, oh, we got crabs here we go no,
and being quarantined from each other because they were sexually active.
This was a chance for them to finally explore with
one another and do have these relationships, to be able
to make out in the corner. Like the stories. It
made me smile because I'm like, yeah, this is what happens, like, well,
not church camp, but regular camp.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I think maybe church camp too. I just wasn't that
cool kiss?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, that was one of the most One of the
threads that stuck out the most to me was this
exploration of sexuality because, as we have talked about and
we discussed in the eighta episode like that, that's a
big discussion in the disability community and disability rights community,
is you know, they're all of these things that we
(23:25):
need to talk about, and one of them is desexualization
and fantalizing of people who have disabilities. And Denise Jacobson,
she was very open about that and she as you
as you mentioned like she went to the hospital she
had stomach pains and they're like, oh, it must be appendicitis,
and they took out a perfectly healthy appendix before they
(23:46):
bothered to ask her like oh are you sexually active?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
You have gon rhea? And this was the thing that
was like she was like, nope, okay, I'm going to
go and study sexuality and specifically disability and sexual reality.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And I think that's so important.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And I loved seeing her embrace it, even if I
was so furious, right, that had to be a thing
for her at all, But it was again like, yeah,
there was something so nice about just hearing them discuss like, oh,
this is our one week anniversary was like.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
You know, right, camp again.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I never went to camp, but I've also assumed that's
what happened.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yes, yes, right, But.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
They were able to explore that and figure that out.
They were playing music, they were just being themselves. But yeah,
on top of that, you do see this amazing friendship,
which I even talked about during the five oh four
sit ince how it was Camp Oliver again, them coming together,
singing together, talking it through, talking about their methods, talking
(24:49):
about their grievances. But these friendships, though they didn't always last,
some of them really did. Nancy was one of the
ones that was right next to Judith Human the whole
time making sure things were getting done. Lebret talked about
he was excited to come to Berkeley because that's where
they were to help with these different protests and then.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
The growing need to be activists. So it was really
good to see.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
But yeah, there's this level of cammaderie that that happens,
especially when you are vulnerable and open and then connect
on that level. But to move it into activism is
a whole different conversation into seeing what they did and
what they accomplished and coming in to understand what these
types of movements can do, but really just growing on
(25:37):
trusting each other. That was a whole different level too,
And of course we're going to talk a little more
about it in a minute, but like inclusion, making sure
that everyone again had a voice, making sure that there
was an interpreter for those who were deaf before a
meeting actually started, making sure that people are being taken
care of at all times, being asked what they thought.
(25:59):
I thought it was phenomenal how Judith under her leadership
humans leadership really did take on a whole life in itself,
and you could tell that she cared, Like when she
would choke up in announcements, her friends would be behind
her or here for you, we got you, encouraging her
instead of sitting in awkward silence, which I feel like
(26:20):
happens a lot when someone shows emotions, You're like what
do I do?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
But they know they knew her and uplifted her and
it was a beautiful thing to see.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, that was one of my favorite parts.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
And the documentary starts with a quote somewhere along the
lines of like, this is the story.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
No one's hurt and they should have heard it.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
And I totally agree because when I for that episode,
like I'd researched it, but watching this, I was like,
look at.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
What they accomplished.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, by supporting each other, holding each other up, talking
and just being so making that effort to take care
of each other and what was really a horrible situation,
Like they stayed in that building for like twenty plus days. Yeah,
and they had to like come up with like betting
situations and washing situations and food situations, like all of
(27:07):
this stuff, and they did it like they worked with
other people. They made it happen. They checked in with
everybody they were looking into what people needed. One of
my favorite parts that's also kind of sad, is that
they were able to get around like the FBI tapping
their phones by using sign language.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Like they just really came together.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
They coalesced, and as we talked about in that Ada episode,
it was one of the first times where people with
you know, disparate disabilities all came together and were like, Oh,
we're all part of this community and this movement and
we can work together and we see you and this
is inclusive.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
And it was.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Very It was very, very powerful, and I liked there
was that thread of yeah, the people from Camp Jeanette
finding each other and others who hadn't gone to that
camp being like, once you were friends with one of them,
we were friends with all of them, right.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
And as in fact, as you're talking about it, the
FBI listening in. There wasn't a lot of coverage at
one point in time, but that one reporter stuck through.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
He made sure that this was there.
Speaker 5 (28:15):
He was like, this is important, and then when the
strike happened, his story went global and finally got it out.
But the fact that it was still invisible with them
doing so much, which was part of the breakdown that
you see for human in some of the leadership just
really finding it disheartening because people were ignoring it all
together because once again, disabilities made people in an ablest
(28:39):
way uncomfortable, just as a reminder, just existing made people uncomfortable,
so they would rather ignore it. And then you have
big things like the Heraldo rivera segment on the Willowbrook Institutes,
which dramatized that which it happened. I know that it happened,
but it took it to such a level that it
also was like, well, if it's not as climactic as this,
is it getting the attention. But it was interesting to
(29:02):
see how they built that up and how things turned
around and come back out and then you know, combating
this way or that way and trying.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
To get things accomplished.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
But that's you know, that's the history of this movement.
That's a history of many movements that you see it
going backwards and forwards and being a distraction to being ignored,
which happens a lot. But they would not let that
stop them, and I love that too. Of course within
the movement as well, there was a huge growth in it.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
As we talked about with it being escalated.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
Finally with the reports, they couldn't really ignore it anymore,
thank god.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, it really was amazing what they were able
to accomplish and what they were determined and to accomplish,
(30:01):
Like despite the adversity, there were so many things I
was watching and I was like wow.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
At one point, they had Judas.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Human and some of the other leaders went to d
C and they were transported in the back of U
haul trucks, like dark moving trucks to get to the
houses of leaders who they wanted to talk to, and
just all of these things to be heard.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
And to be seen.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
And that did lead to this determination and that reporter
and all these other factors came together to lead to
a growth in the movement and to lead to more
people being aware of it, and things like the cripple
crawl that just really captured the nation's attention of like, okay,
(30:51):
we cannot ignore this right now.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Well that's exactly.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
The growth was so big that yeah, they had to
They're like, they're not listening to was here. We've been here,
San Diego's listening to us. But that's not enough. Okay,
We're going to go to d C. Y'all stay here,
we're going here, and that still was enough, so they
were starting to like go to home, so like we're
gonna make you listen. The Secretary at that point in
time had to go around the back and sneak away
from them because he couldn't confront them to the fact
(31:17):
that he signed off in private and it just happened
because he didn't want to acknowledge the fact that he
tried to take some credit for it.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
We're not going to give it to him.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
But also the fact that it did capture the attentions
of the Senate, but at least a few senate who
not only held hearings, but then you also said like
betting and such. At one point in time, the mayor
came in support and talked to them as well.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
But it did get.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
That type of traction and had to grow to that point,
to the point that one of the senates who when
they were having this hearing, the representative of the Secretary,
who had no idea what was happening, got chased down
when he tried to ignore questions to come back and
you better come and answer these questions. Like it was
such a powerful move to see activists like that to
(32:03):
push to get those answers that they were determined to
go And of course again we talked about the inclusion,
but the intersectionality of it all. The fact that we
have organizations with the civil rights movements when it comes
to the black civil rights movement, black panthers coming in
making sure that they are not going to be pushed
out of the protests coming in and understanding if no
(32:25):
one else will when it comes to the rights, that
if one person, one group of people, one community is
left behind, everything can crumble.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, that was another piece of this that was so
good to see. Great to see because you know, we're
big proponents of intersectional feminism here and this is one
instance of it where we're seeing like different groups of
marginalized people fighting for rights, fighting for equality and equity
coming together recognizing like, if you don't have it, then
(32:58):
it's not right, right right, then I don't have it either.
So that was really great to see, Like to see
that support that was kind of you know, asked for,
but offered pretty openly, like yeah, all right, we'll help you,
without the expectation of you have to give something back,
the hope you know that we'll support each other, but
(33:18):
it was it was just nice to see.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Right and correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe
the person that turned to the Black Panthers was a
black woman, disabled woman. She was like, I got this,
we know where to go to. I know who will
have our backs, and they said yes without hesitating, and
they were the epitome of the intersectionality.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
This is where I am.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
I am a black woman with disabilities. I have hardly
no ability to speak for myself. We have to push
and I'm going to do it this way. And she
used her voice to bring two movements together. Of course
we don't see the full impact of both movements in
this specific documentary, but you see that this is an elevation,
(34:00):
a big conversation of what true intersectionality and allyship can
look like. And I think it's really important to remember
how this has to get pushed forward. Of course, again,
as we are going through our own moments and trying
to push for activism and advocacy for ourselves. It took years,
it took decades to get to here, and it's still
(34:21):
not enough. And we want to talk about that because
that's exactly kind of where we sit, kind of how
we've seen everything unfolded, unravel and yet at one point
in time we see Reagan talking about how this is
costing too much and we need to backtrack, and oh
my god, you know this is not doing what you
think it is. It's not cost efficient. And yeah, them
(34:43):
really dismissing humans and individuals because they don't want to
pay out to give them the same freedom and rights
as those enabled bodies. And again, when I say able bodies,
we know that that's not permanent, and people kind of
forget that, as one reporter talks about she was able
(35:05):
bodied and then she was hit in a car accident
and lost that and realizing for the first time, oh
my god, I never understood, and here I am, and
to really thrive in that instead of becoming discouraged by
it necessarily except for the fact that that disabled communities
are set up to fail because they're not given equal
(35:27):
or equity in this playing field.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Absolutely, yeah, I thought her story.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I'm glad it was included because she was a good like.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Before and after of oh I didn't do any of
the work and now I see just to see that
and yeah, I that's one of the things that we
did discuss in the ideas. So, but it's also something
that we've thought about a lot. I've thought about a lot,
but living in a capitalist society, for how destructive that
(36:01):
is to be told by like the President of the
United States, you cost too much to have your to
have your rights, your human rights. That's too expensive. Rice
go away, Like that's abhorrent than disgusting and very harmful, right,
(36:21):
and it is.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
It is still.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
A fight, like not at all to diminish the monumental
things that they accomplished, which I think they would. You know,
they've been outspoken like yes, we did the ada, but
we need so much more, like right, there is still
so many instances where it's sort of assumed like unless
you complain, then just go away, Like don't don't make
(36:50):
me use money in my business, uh, to make it
more accessible.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
Yeah, there's so many conversations we need to have about
how the capitalist ideals really really have set up many
people to fill most people to feel but we won't
necessarily go into that for this topic. But yeah, I
think it's interesting to see the fact that human was
able to work in an administration with the president of
the time at the time and to build that up
(37:16):
and then that position that she held is gone. Now,
that's how little it's accounted for today, even though they
have made so much stride and then have already shown
how much of a positive impact it can have on
a society as a whole when people with disabilities are
included and actually put on the same level as anybody
(37:37):
else to be able to be a part of this
decision making, this policy making, business decision making, how profitable
if we want to talk about it, or it's just
impactful it has on an environment as a whole. And
I think that's part of the problem is the solutions
that are found are given in a timetable instead of
(38:01):
being restructured to actually change permanently. And that's problem for
so many things. And that's why we have to keep
going backwards and forwards and sideways and everywhere everywhere, instead
of continuing upward as you would have hoped. But yeah,
I think it's important to see that. But it's also
I don't know about you seeing that them come back
(38:23):
together and having the conversation and being able to have
the conversation about why they fight, who they're fighting for,
how it's impacted them, how it's impacted their community, how
it can continue to impact and how they can show,
you know, I think we forget this so often that
there have been radicals and there have been revolutionaries from Jump,
(38:45):
and unfortunately we still have to look at what they
did to be as a reminder of how to push forward,
that we have to see these historical contexts for the
before and after and push to fight.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah, that was one of the most one of the
most parts is in my opinion, at the end when
they come together, they reunited the camp which is being
bulldozed and turned into something else, and they just have
really heartfelt moments with each other. But they ask each
other like did you ever think you were going to
go to Berkeley and do this? And did you ever
(39:17):
think you can go and do this? And they were
all like no. So I think as much work as
we do continue to need to do, they did accomplish
so much like along with the other people in the movement,
other movements, that helps.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
It really did.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
And I was thinking about this other day about I
was watching some White House video and they had a
ASL interpreter in it, and I was like, Wow, when
they were when they were growing up, that wasn't a
thing like that, right, just wasn't thought of, wasn't cared about,
and it's still a fight, absolutely, but it was it
(39:59):
was eye opening to me to see kind of the
like before and after.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Right, Yeah, And that's one of the big things I
love that I love seeing asl for concertgoers when they
do shows.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
That's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
Yes, yes, but also just as a reminder when it
becomes for those who are able bodied, uh, you know,
there's many of us with invisible disabilities and we can't
ignore that. And they talk about this a lot too
within that documentary because they understand that better than anyone
as well. We know that there's complex disabilities where they're
(40:37):
more than one disabilities in a person. As well as
the fact that they talked about trying to sustain like
we got to see and we didn't talk much about
it then what an independent living situation could have been
for them and how they as the disabled, were able
to know their needs. And I think that's something we
forget too often and we have to remind ourselves as
(40:58):
if we were going to be called allies again, this
is one of those terms I don't think we can
give to ourselves. It has to be given by the
community who is saying that you are an ally to us.
But to be there is to remember that they are
in the lead and that we need to follow their lead.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Period.
Speaker 5 (41:13):
So when they say there's problems with the ADA, we
need to look up why and see the research that
they're talking about and take that on as to yeah,
this is a problem that they shouldn't be getting crumbs,
they should be getting everything as well as when we
see and I've seen this, we haven't talked about this
in TikTok. There's a debate about ASL and subtitles and
the intersectionality event we need to have that we need
(41:37):
to follow those in that place, in that community and
not take on the battle as if it's ours and
we know better because we don't. There's a conversation about
if you truly want to learn ASL, that's great, maybe
look to the actual deaf community who.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Are willing to teach.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
And there are those out there who are teaching because
they know it best, and I think it's something that
we have to remember as well because we don't want
to be misled being taught something inappropriate. But yeah, but
there was that huge debate about that and also how
we are taking away work for those in the communities
who can teach much better. So so many things in
(42:16):
this that we have to be reminded of because this
is eye opening and it shouldn't be about pity, or
it shouldn't be about like watching to be a savior
for anyone, just but to truly understand and learn, and
that if we do want to be advocates to once
again remember they're already those out there in front, and
those are the ones that we need to look at
because they lived that life.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yes, they've been doing the work.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, So highly recommend this movie if you haven't watched it,
it is on Netflix, yes, and we suggest that you do.
And in the meantime, if you have a suggestion for
our next feminist movie Wednesday Friday or what have you,
please let us know. You can emails a stuff with
your mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
(43:00):
us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram
at Stuff I've Never Told You.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Thanks as always to our superducer Christina.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
Thank you, Christina.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You
this production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you
can visit the Ahart Radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Smantha. I'm o good stuff.
I never told you approctive, I hearted you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And for this classic we are bringing back our feminist
Movie Friday we did on cript Camp because yes, it's
great documentary. Go watch it if you haven't seen it already,
But it came up in our recent update on Disability
Pride Month and what's going on, so I thought we
would bring it back.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Did you know there's an actual follow up with it
to that that we might have to watch? It follows
the couple from that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I think
we're going to have to come back and watch that
one soon.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Just FYI another thing to add to the list.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes, all right, Well, in the meantime, please enjoy this
classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome
to Stephan never told you a protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And welcome to another edition of Feminist Movie.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
And then whatever day you're listening to a guess, technically
this is being released on a Wednesday, so it's no
longer a Feminist Movie Friday.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
But you don't Also, you may not be listening on
a Wednesday. Who knows, right, it's.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
True, we have no control over this. You can insert
whatever day of the week that you're listening to it,
and that's perfectly fine.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Yes, And we talked about this on our last movie,
and we wanted to come back and make sure that
we do a viewing and have a conversation. But we
are talking about the amazing documentary crypt Camp Disability Revolution.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
But before we.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Start, Annie, I do need to ask did you do
camps as a good Did you go to like these
little summer camps?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Funny you should ask that because I just had a
conversation with my friends about how there's like very jokingly
camp kids and non camp kids.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I did not do it.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I as as I have said today, the reasons might
be different. I do not sleep well around other people.
That sounded like a nightmare to me. I did like
the idea of like learning how to tye nots or shoot.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Bow and arrows or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But I feel like a lot of movies about camp
that I watched as a kid did not make it
seem like an experience I would enjoy. It sounded like
there's gonna be a lot of pranks and I was
gonna be terrified andred for life.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Oh no, I think it's forting to what kind of
camp you go to.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I will say that I did go to a couple
of church camps, and it was very rare that I
went because they were expensive. But I also thought was
one of those that thought camp was kind of not useless.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
But just like, why why would I do this?
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Why would I go away into a strange place and
pay all this money to do things like eat the
food that I don't like, being in the woods, getting
eaten up by bugs, like all of these things. But
I really liked the ones that I was able to
do things. I went to a church camp that went
and built homes throughout the towns under privileged areas. I
(03:13):
loved that. That part of it was so much fun,
and I built a lot of friendships based on it.
I guess I went to several because after I went
to one of them, I went to several because I
love the aspect of going to build and do things
all day long and enjoy those times. Of course, the
first one was amazing, so I wanted to relive that
one over and over and over again. That didn't happen,
but I had some really good experiences, But I wouldn't
(03:35):
say that it was my cup of tea I like
camping to a certain degree, but yeah, I would always
be exhausted when I left, But.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Like I said, I did build some bonds.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
And I'm really excited about this documentary because that's kind
of where we see this type of camp going. But yeah,
so we are talking about the Sun Dance Award winning,
Slash Oscar nominated documentary Crypt Camp a Disability Revolution, which
was released in twenty twenty, directed by Nicole Newnham and
James le Brett, who was a camper himself at what
(04:10):
we are calling it crypt Camp or crypt Janade, and
it was also executive produced by the Obamas, Michelle and Barack.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It was it was and we mentioned this not only
in a recent feminist movie Friday, I think also in
our recent book Club, but in our Ada, our breakdown
on the Ada, we talked about coming back to discuss
this movie. It's on Netflix, is streaming. If you haven't
seen it, want to watch it. Not currently a sponsor,
but just letting you know. The documentary follows le Brett,
(04:42):
Judith Human, Denise Cherr, Jacobson, Nancy Rosenblum, Nancy Dangelo, Anna Coupolo, Freeman,
Ellie Abrashknjeane Mala Frante, Steve Hoffman, Michael Tannenbaum, Al Levy,
and others who attended as campers at Camp Jenaide, a
camp led by Larry Allison, who was the camp director.
We also got to meet staffers like Lionel, Joe Woodyard,
(05:05):
Joseph O'Connor, and people who are on site to document
the film with the People's Video Theater, like Howard Gustadt,
who was able to get footage of the times and
discussion throughout the camp.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So that was really cool, actually.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Right, I Honestly, the first thing I thought was like,
what an amazing thing that they were able to get
this on film and have such an open, honest conversation
and was able to get that and restore that and
be able to show that to others, because it was
a phenomenal idea and you don't see that, you know,
We've talked about this many times when we think of
historical figures and historical events that we don't get to
(05:41):
see or have actual proof of.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
What happened there.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
And to have like a first person contact to see
what is happening and what has happened, it's phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, Yeah, and it was very like a moment in
time captured because I was like, really, well, this is seventies,
Oh I feel it.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
I loved seeing them in their prom and now filling
themselves and exploring that. I wonder how they turned out
as adults because they still follow with that.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yes, and we got to see some so answers to
that question.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, the film was fifteen years in the making with
campger Lebritt, who has spined bitheta as a director and
narrator throughout the documentary. And yes, it was premiered at
the twenty twenty Sun Dance Festival. Camp Jeanette was founded
in nineteen fifty two in the Catskills and was shut
down in nineteen seventy seven. And this is where a
(06:32):
majority of it takes place, or where a lot of
like the blossoming of this activism that we see right.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
And I think it's partially because a Lebret who came
in later is the one that says the tone of
how he got to be a part of that and seeing.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
That as well.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
And then if I am correct, I don't know what
is happening with Kim Jeannette right now, but there's a
lot of conversation about things with cryp camp and how
that's kind of blossomed a new movement in twenty twenty
as well, so it's good to see how it kind
of picks back up. But the documentary, as we are discussing,
shows the impact of Campjenet and the campers who could
escape the world and go to their personal quote Woodstock,
(07:11):
as one of the campers say, there the campers were
able to live as they wanted, hooking up with some
of the other campers, maybe for the first time, getting girlfriends,
getting boyfriends, having all this new romance, playing and truly
competing with each other. There was a line when they
talked about for the first time, not only were they
picked to be on their team, you had to and
if you got out, you got out.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
This is not about pity.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
This is about good, friendly competition, being treated as one
of the teammates, and then you get to see them
making their own decisions, but also get access to actual
help from people not just being left and being able
to speak about the issues from being treated differently by
the outside world or by their parents, and or disciplined differently,
(07:54):
or even completely having to be reliant on their parents
and therefore having to act differently than other teams, kids
trying to obtain autonomy and just being able to live
their lives and the discussions they had poured out in
the real world. Of course, we're kind of jumping over
a lot of the things, the personal connections and just
the love that happens at the camp, and we don't
want to do that, but you really should go and
(08:16):
watch it because it's a deep account of who they
are as an individual and being able to sit and
discuss what they feel like they needed and how they're
often shut down. And we're going to talk a little
bit more about this later in the themes because we
think it's really important, but it is really just eye
opening to have them being able to speak up for themselves,
(08:39):
to truly air out the frustrations, and to be able
to do it with people who understand them. As Lebret
talked about how in his hometown or at his school,
he's the only one with a disability who was disabled
in the friend group. He has a great friend group.
But then coming back and realizing, oh, I do have
these concerns, or I do have this moment of trying
(09:00):
to figure myself out and angst and anger and trying
to pretend, uh, you know, that it doesn't exist on
this level, and or being.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Isolated because of it.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
He talks about that and again talks about his own
family and his relationship with his mom.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
You see that when we talk about the layer of hierarchy.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
When it comes to disabilities and types of disabilities and
then breaking that down in this conversation. So it's a
really beautiful time. Again they're having a democracy. We see
a young Judith Human who takes on the net as
a leader, but trying to do it democratically. To giving
everybody your voice, whether it's about food, whether it's about
you know, sleeping, Like all of these things is a
(09:41):
beautiful thing to see as you get to watch them
in the moment of the camps was nice. And also
the crabs incident and if you don't know what I'm
talking about.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
You need to watch it.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Yes, it's like just such a realistic hit is this
is great? And yes, like I said, the discussion had
does pour out into the real world as due to
Human and so many from the camp continue in taking
their discussions into action. Human's own lawsuit against the New
York Board of Education was highlighted as part of the
catalyst in the disability movement and political protests which you
(10:15):
see later on in the film as they continue to
build up to being able to advocate for themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Right and as we did discuss in our Ada episode,
the movement was heated with sit ins, protests, and political
debates and negotiations. The documentary follows different approaches in the
disability activists, including the five ZO four sit in in
San Diego in nineteen seventy seven, which spread to Washington,
d C. To pressure the then administration to define federal
(10:43):
guidelines around the Discrimination Act and to push for the
civil rights of all disabled people. And it was during
this time that supporters from other movements such as the
Black Panthers came and drove to not only show support,
but also provided items such as meals and services for
those protesting right.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
It was really interesting to watch the different people and
organizations that would reach out and making sure that they
were able to support them as In fact, during that time,
one activist asked members of the Black Panthers, why are
you doing this? And they're like, we see you, we
know what it's like to be here, and we have
to fight with each other.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
This is what we're about and I love that.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
So the documentary continued following individuals as they were going
through their own private journeys, such as Denise Shear Jacobson,
who talked about her life as a disability educator and
as a specialist in human sexuality, which she talks about
how she got there, which was pretty much what we've
talked about before, how oftentimes people with disabilities are dismissed
(11:43):
when it comes to sexuality and disregarded completely and seeing
as completely asexual. And I'm saying that in the literal definition,
not necessarily a sexuality definition, but that's one of the
things that.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
They state, and she kind of pushed through.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
She was like, Nah, no, needy to get mine. I'm
going to get in mine. And she talked about her
experience of actually being pregnant, but because the doctors did
not see her as a sexual being or someone who
could be sexual, they dismissed that altogether, and that really
pushed her forward into this profession and just being an
activist for disabled community. And she talked about how she
(12:20):
pushed to defy expectations when so many underestimated, including being
in a relationship and growing with her family and being
a professional who made it out into the world and
really became an icon in education, especially within the disabled
community as well as the education community. So the documentary
(12:42):
continues as Human and her organization, Disabled An Action, continued
their fight, including the Capital Crawl in the nineties, which was,
of course, if we talked about this earlier, a demonstration
of inaccessibility and no access for those with disabilities, which
made a huge impact because we still talk about it today.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yes, and later we see a reunion with several of
the old camp goers with Human, the Brects, Jacobson and
a few others at the old camp site reminiscing about
the past, and it was a very powerful right to
see them reuniting and reminiscing about the people they've lost
and the people who are still there and why it
was so important this camp.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Right one of the campgoers children came through to celebrate
the camp as well, and it was a heartwarming moment
where she got to see where some of the defying
moments for her father.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Was there in that area. So it was a beautiful ending.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
But of course with that, throughout the movie you see
that as much as they do progress, they do feel
like they're being pushed back in some of the progress,
and as we're talking about today, we know.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
That's still a big issue.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
As many things that have happened, there have been setbacks,
as many good things have happened with the ADA, there's
a lot of things that are problematic within the ADA,
and we needed to talk about that as well and
who it applies to, who gets access and honestly that
some of the conversations that we're having with them just
venting and airing out the issues that they dealt with
(14:12):
in everyday life haven't gone away unfortunately, but they definitely
did a lot to make sure to bring some awareness
and some step forward. But yeah, if you haven't seen
this documentary, you should definitely check it out. We did
(14:40):
want to go on with some themes of the documentary
because I think it's really important that we highlight and
talk about how they have impacted and this movement impacted
all of society and all of us as a community,
and just understanding we need to pushing for human rights.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
And one of the big themes.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Is of course the history of those with disabilities, the
rights of disabilities, civil rights within disability communities, as well
as just being able to be heard and I thought
it was really good how they actually just backtracked and
talked about it from almost beginning to end, including some
(15:20):
of the horrific things such as that we've talked about
the Willebrook Institute and how horrible that discovery was, and
it really kind of opened up, I guess the public
to see how horrific some of the people with disabilities
were being treated.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, I mean it's such a great, vulnerable personal look
at the progress that the disability movement has had and
how hard they've had to fight, and a lot of
it watching it felt so frustrating because what they were
saying just made sense. Of course, you should have access
(16:02):
to being able to live by yourself, being able to
access public transportation, being able to get into public buildings,
like all of these things that they were having to
fight so hard, and that you know, the camp.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It was so.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Kind of heartbreaking but also heartwarming to talk about how
much they loved that camp because they would go and
it was like the first time they just felt like
they didn't have to fit into society's rules or like
make people feel comfortable, that they could just be themselves
and talk to other people. And that's why it was
so important to them and it was so life changing. Yeah,
(16:43):
and I think an experience like that clearly carried through
into right this movement because it was like a glimpse
of well, no, we should.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Have had this all right.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
I mean, we already talked about the ablest idea of
dismissing those with disabilities, thinking that they're not able to
think for themselves or do for themselves, so therefore their
lacking and shouldn't have an opinion, which I think human
does an amazing job in making sure. At that camp
she was like, no, you will have a part in this,
and you will have a voice in this, and we
will allow you to speak and have a voice here.
(17:18):
And I love that, in which she felt just rightly,
so should be everywhere, should be outside of just the
safe space of Kemp Janet. But yeah, one of the
things they talked about was the fact that the ADA
had not passed at that point in time, and there
was no anti discrimination laws in place for those with disabilities,
and when they went into town being denied at places
(17:40):
because they made people uncomfortable, they made customers uncomfortable, and
that in itself was such a statement.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Of course, this was one of the counselors.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Who was an African American man who had come out
of Alabama to hang out Jay Woodyard, I believe, and
he was talking about you know, and at that point
in time, I understood, because we knew we had to
be in our place and not to make people uncomfortable
because if we didn't, they could be dangerous for us
as well. And he was talking in comparison about how
important seeing this level was and how yes, it was
(18:12):
similar to each other, and we had so much to
push forward and trying to get beyond just existing and
existing quietly or disappearing in the corner. And I thought
that was impactful. Yeah, one of the things that we
talked about with the personal history is just the basic
human rights, just being able to exist wherever and not
(18:33):
being told you shouldn't be here because you make this
awkward or you make me feel some sort of way.
And at one point time when they were talking about
the five o four protests, she was talking about the
fact one of the protesters was talking about the fact,
you know, this was really uncomfortable and people don't want
to see us, And honestly, when it comes down to it,
she quotes as saying the world always wants us dead.
(18:56):
Disable people know that every day of our lives lived
that reality, so there's always going to be am I
going to survive?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Am I going to push back? Or am I going
to fight to be here?
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Just talking about the fact that, yeah, honestly, during that time,
society had this whole don't look, don't tell, don't see,
don't you know, don't hear type of conversation, which is
why the institutions like Willobrook existed, to just push them
aside and be ignored, which is so.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Cruel.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
And she was talking about that fight, like you know,
it was one of those things whether it's going to
make us angry or is it going to make us fight,
and talking about the fact that, yeah, we're gonna fight,
and you're going to see that we exist and when
you ignore us, yes, death happens. Things that you don't
want to see or think about happens, but it's going
to be there, and yeah, we're not disappearing, which I
thought was an important conversation that they were having.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
That they were like, we're here and you see the interviews.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Throughout their times, and I thought that was interesting. And
of course another with the history of it is during
the camp what impacted something that was like wow, was
talking about the right of privacy, which I know we
take I take for granted.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, there were so many conversations that felt like a
gift to see, not only because I was like, oh, wow,
they got they still have this footage from you know,
this time period, but just being so open and vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And in the face of.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Real callousness from like government officials, especially towards the end,
where they're just like it's going to cost too much
in no way to give you.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Your basic right now. But yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
The they discussed all of these ideas and concerns and
things that they had to deal with since childhood, around
their lives in privacy, around having to depend on others
when that didn't have to be the case, but like
(20:55):
particularly their parents perhaps, and just their lives kind of
being up for the judgment from everybody, like everybody being like, oh,
you must be sick, Oh there must be something wrong
with you. Right, I don't want to be involved because
you must be sick, which is wrong and gross. Right.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Well yeah, and also just like as you were talking about,
you know, having to depend on everyone else. They were
talking about the fact that you know, at one point
one of the campers had to depend on someone else
to translate for her, and then that person who translates, like,
I feel like this is what she's trying to say.
And what we're talking about right now is being able
(21:38):
to be alone, not having to be completely monitored all
the time. We don't have that freedom, and it feels
we don't have privacy anymore. I can't be alone to
dress myself because don't want trusts that I'm going to
do that to you know, like all of these things
or for those like having to deal with the fact that, yeah,
(21:58):
Lebrec talked about how you gone through surgery and having
to wear diapers and that was just a level of
vulnerability that he wasn't ready for and coming to a
camp and you know, you know the stigma that but
this was a different camp where people everybody was like, yeah,
we understand this, we know the struggle and then be
given access care as well as still being treated as
(22:19):
a full fleshed human instead of being and vantialized because
of their disabilities. So it was a really big eye
opener to that. Of course, as we talked about earlier
the crab incident sexuality and how it was a joke
and I laughed.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It was pretty funny in that.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
They're like, oh, we got crabs here we go no,
and being quarantined from each other because they were sexually active.
This was a chance for them to finally explore with
one another and do have these relationships, to be able
to make out in the corner. Like the stories. It
made me smile because I'm like, yeah, this is what happens, like, well,
not church camp, but regular camp.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I think maybe church camp too. I just wasn't that
cool kiss?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, that was one of the most One of the
threads that stuck out the most to me was this
exploration of sexuality because, as we have talked about and
we discussed in the eighta episode like that, that's a
big discussion in the disability community and disability rights community,
is you know, they're all of these things that we
(23:25):
need to talk about, and one of them is desexualization
and fantalizing of people who have disabilities. And Denise Jacobson,
she was very open about that and she as you
as you mentioned like she went to the hospital she
had stomach pains and they're like, oh, it must be appendicitis,
and they took out a perfectly healthy appendix before they
(23:46):
bothered to ask her like oh are you sexually active?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
You have gon rhea? And this was the thing that
was like she was like, nope, okay, I'm going to
go and study sexuality and specifically disability and sexual reality.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And I think that's so important.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And I loved seeing her embrace it, even if I
was so furious, right, that had to be a thing
for her at all, But it was again like, yeah,
there was something so nice about just hearing them discuss like, oh,
this is our one week anniversary was like.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
You know, right, camp again.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I never went to camp, but I've also assumed that's
what happened.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yes, yes, right, But.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
They were able to explore that and figure that out.
They were playing music, they were just being themselves. But yeah,
on top of that, you do see this amazing friendship,
which I even talked about during the five oh four
sit ince how it was Camp Oliver again, them coming together,
singing together, talking it through, talking about their methods, talking
(24:49):
about their grievances. But these friendships, though they didn't always last,
some of them really did. Nancy was one of the
ones that was right next to Judith Human the whole
time making sure things were getting done. Lebret talked about
he was excited to come to Berkeley because that's where
they were to help with these different protests and then.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
The growing need to be activists. So it was really
good to see.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
But yeah, there's this level of cammaderie that that happens,
especially when you are vulnerable and open and then connect
on that level. But to move it into activism is
a whole different conversation into seeing what they did and
what they accomplished and coming in to understand what these
types of movements can do, but really just growing on
(25:37):
trusting each other. That was a whole different level too,
And of course we're going to talk a little more
about it in a minute, but like inclusion, making sure
that everyone again had a voice, making sure that there
was an interpreter for those who were deaf before a
meeting actually started, making sure that people are being taken
care of at all times, being asked what they thought.
(25:59):
I thought it was phenomenal how Judith under her leadership
humans leadership really did take on a whole life in itself,
and you could tell that she cared, Like when she
would choke up in announcements, her friends would be behind
her or here for you, we got you, encouraging her
instead of sitting in awkward silence, which I feel like
(26:20):
happens a lot when someone shows emotions, You're like what
do I do?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
But they know they knew her and uplifted her and
it was a beautiful thing to see.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, that was one of my favorite parts.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
And the documentary starts with a quote somewhere along the
lines of like, this is the story.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
No one's hurt and they should have heard it.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
And I totally agree because when I for that episode,
like I'd researched it, but watching this, I was like,
look at.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
What they accomplished.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, by supporting each other, holding each other up, talking
and just being so making that effort to take care
of each other and what was really a horrible situation,
Like they stayed in that building for like twenty plus days. Yeah,
and they had to like come up with like betting
situations and washing situations and food situations, like all of
(27:07):
this stuff, and they did it like they worked with
other people. They made it happen. They checked in with
everybody they were looking into what people needed. One of
my favorite parts that's also kind of sad, is that
they were able to get around like the FBI tapping
their phones by using sign language.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Like they just really came together.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
They coalesced, and as we talked about in that Ada episode,
it was one of the first times where people with
you know, disparate disabilities all came together and were like, Oh,
we're all part of this community and this movement and
we can work together and we see you and this
is inclusive.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
And it was.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Very It was very, very powerful, and I liked there
was that thread of yeah, the people from Camp Jeanette
finding each other and others who hadn't gone to that
camp being like, once you were friends with one of them,
we were friends with all of them, right.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
And as in fact, as you're talking about it, the
FBI listening in. There wasn't a lot of coverage at
one point in time, but that one reporter stuck through.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
He made sure that this was there.
Speaker 5 (28:15):
He was like, this is important, and then when the
strike happened, his story went global and finally got it out.
But the fact that it was still invisible with them
doing so much, which was part of the breakdown that
you see for human in some of the leadership just
really finding it disheartening because people were ignoring it all
together because once again, disabilities made people in an ablest
(28:39):
way uncomfortable, just as a reminder, just existing made people uncomfortable,
so they would rather ignore it. And then you have
big things like the Heraldo rivera segment on the Willowbrook Institutes,
which dramatized that which it happened. I know that it happened,
but it took it to such a level that it
also was like, well, if it's not as climactic as this,
is it getting the attention. But it was interesting to
(29:02):
see how they built that up and how things turned
around and come back out and then you know, combating
this way or that way and trying.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
To get things accomplished.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
But that's you know, that's the history of this movement.
That's a history of many movements that you see it
going backwards and forwards and being a distraction to being ignored,
which happens a lot. But they would not let that
stop them, and I love that too. Of course within
the movement as well, there was a huge growth in it.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
As we talked about with it being escalated.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
Finally with the reports, they couldn't really ignore it anymore,
thank god.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, it really was amazing what they were able
to accomplish and what they were determined and to accomplish,
(30:01):
Like despite the adversity, there were so many things I
was watching and I was like wow.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
At one point, they had Judas.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Human and some of the other leaders went to d
C and they were transported in the back of U
haul trucks, like dark moving trucks to get to the
houses of leaders who they wanted to talk to, and
just all of these things to be heard.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
And to be seen.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
And that did lead to this determination and that reporter
and all these other factors came together to lead to
a growth in the movement and to lead to more
people being aware of it, and things like the cripple
crawl that just really captured the nation's attention of like, okay,
(30:51):
we cannot ignore this right now.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Well that's exactly.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
The growth was so big that yeah, they had to
They're like, they're not listening to was here. We've been here,
San Diego's listening to us. But that's not enough. Okay,
We're going to go to d C. Y'all stay here,
we're going here, and that still was enough, so they
were starting to like go to home, so like we're
gonna make you listen. The Secretary at that point in
time had to go around the back and sneak away
from them because he couldn't confront them to the fact
(31:17):
that he signed off in private and it just happened
because he didn't want to acknowledge the fact that he
tried to take some credit for it.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
We're not going to give it to him.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
But also the fact that it did capture the attentions
of the Senate, but at least a few senate who
not only held hearings, but then you also said like
betting and such. At one point in time, the mayor
came in support and talked to them as well.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
But it did get.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
That type of traction and had to grow to that point,
to the point that one of the senates who when
they were having this hearing, the representative of the Secretary,
who had no idea what was happening, got chased down
when he tried to ignore questions to come back and
you better come and answer these questions. Like it was
such a powerful move to see activists like that to
(32:03):
push to get those answers that they were determined to
go And of course again we talked about the inclusion,
but the intersectionality of it all. The fact that we
have organizations with the civil rights movements when it comes
to the black civil rights movement, black panthers coming in
making sure that they are not going to be pushed
out of the protests coming in and understanding if no
(32:25):
one else will when it comes to the rights, that
if one person, one group of people, one community is
left behind, everything can crumble.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, that was another piece of this that was so
good to see. Great to see because you know, we're
big proponents of intersectional feminism here and this is one
instance of it where we're seeing like different groups of
marginalized people fighting for rights, fighting for equality and equity
coming together recognizing like, if you don't have it, then
(32:58):
it's not right, right right, then I don't have it either.
So that was really great to see, Like to see
that support that was kind of you know, asked for,
but offered pretty openly, like yeah, all right, we'll help you,
without the expectation of you have to give something back,
the hope you know that we'll support each other, but
(33:18):
it was it was just nice to see.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Right and correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe
the person that turned to the Black Panthers was a
black woman, disabled woman. She was like, I got this,
we know where to go to. I know who will
have our backs, and they said yes without hesitating, and
they were the epitome of the intersectionality.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
This is where I am.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
I am a black woman with disabilities. I have hardly
no ability to speak for myself. We have to push
and I'm going to do it this way. And she
used her voice to bring two movements together. Of course
we don't see the full impact of both movements in
this specific documentary, but you see that this is an elevation,
(34:00):
a big conversation of what true intersectionality and allyship can
look like. And I think it's really important to remember
how this has to get pushed forward. Of course, again,
as we are going through our own moments and trying
to push for activism and advocacy for ourselves. It took years,
it took decades to get to here, and it's still
(34:21):
not enough. And we want to talk about that because
that's exactly kind of where we sit, kind of how
we've seen everything unfolded, unravel and yet at one point
in time we see Reagan talking about how this is
costing too much and we need to backtrack, and oh
my god, you know this is not doing what you
think it is. It's not cost efficient. And yeah, them
(34:43):
really dismissing humans and individuals because they don't want to
pay out to give them the same freedom and rights
as those enabled bodies. And again, when I say able bodies,
we know that that's not permanent, and people kind of
forget that, as one reporter talks about she was able
(35:05):
bodied and then she was hit in a car accident
and lost that and realizing for the first time, oh
my god, I never understood, and here I am, and
to really thrive in that instead of becoming discouraged by
it necessarily except for the fact that that disabled communities
are set up to fail because they're not given equal
(35:27):
or equity in this playing field.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Absolutely, yeah, I thought her story.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I'm glad it was included because she was a good like.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Before and after of oh I didn't do any of
the work and now I see just to see that
and yeah, I that's one of the things that we
did discuss in the ideas. So, but it's also something
that we've thought about a lot. I've thought about a lot,
but living in a capitalist society, for how destructive that
(36:01):
is to be told by like the President of the
United States, you cost too much to have your to
have your rights, your human rights. That's too expensive. Rice
go away, Like that's abhorrent than disgusting and very harmful, right,
(36:21):
and it is.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
It is still.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
A fight, like not at all to diminish the monumental
things that they accomplished, which I think they would. You know,
they've been outspoken like yes, we did the ada, but
we need so much more, like right, there is still
so many instances where it's sort of assumed like unless
you complain, then just go away, Like don't don't make
(36:50):
me use money in my business, uh, to make it
more accessible.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
Yeah, there's so many conversations we need to have about
how the capitalist ideals really really have set up many
people to fill most people to feel but we won't
necessarily go into that for this topic. But yeah, I
think it's interesting to see the fact that human was
able to work in an administration with the president of
the time at the time and to build that up
(37:16):
and then that position that she held is gone. Now,
that's how little it's accounted for today, even though they
have made so much stride and then have already shown
how much of a positive impact it can have on
a society as a whole when people with disabilities are
included and actually put on the same level as anybody
(37:37):
else to be able to be a part of this
decision making, this policy making, business decision making, how profitable
if we want to talk about it, or it's just
impactful it has on an environment as a whole. And
I think that's part of the problem is the solutions
that are found are given in a timetable instead of
(38:01):
being restructured to actually change permanently. And that's problem for
so many things. And that's why we have to keep
going backwards and forwards and sideways and everywhere everywhere, instead
of continuing upward as you would have hoped. But yeah,
I think it's important to see that. But it's also
I don't know about you seeing that them come back
(38:23):
together and having the conversation and being able to have
the conversation about why they fight, who they're fighting for,
how it's impacted them, how it's impacted their community, how
it can continue to impact and how they can show,
you know, I think we forget this so often that
there have been radicals and there have been revolutionaries from Jump,
(38:45):
and unfortunately we still have to look at what they
did to be as a reminder of how to push forward,
that we have to see these historical contexts for the
before and after and push to fight.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah, that was one of the most one of the
most parts is in my opinion, at the end when
they come together, they reunited the camp which is being
bulldozed and turned into something else, and they just have
really heartfelt moments with each other. But they ask each
other like did you ever think you were going to
go to Berkeley and do this? And did you ever
(39:17):
think you can go and do this? And they were
all like no. So I think as much work as
we do continue to need to do, they did accomplish
so much like along with the other people in the movement,
other movements, that helps.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
It really did.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
And I was thinking about this other day about I
was watching some White House video and they had a
ASL interpreter in it, and I was like, Wow, when
they were when they were growing up, that wasn't a
thing like that, right, just wasn't thought of, wasn't cared about,
and it's still a fight, absolutely, but it was it
(39:59):
was eye opening to me to see kind of the
like before and after.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Right, Yeah, And that's one of the big things I
love that I love seeing asl for concertgoers when they
do shows.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
That's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
Yes, yes, but also just as a reminder when it
becomes for those who are able bodied, uh, you know,
there's many of us with invisible disabilities and we can't
ignore that. And they talk about this a lot too
within that documentary because they understand that better than anyone
as well. We know that there's complex disabilities where they're
(40:37):
more than one disabilities in a person. As well as
the fact that they talked about trying to sustain like
we got to see and we didn't talk much about
it then what an independent living situation could have been
for them and how they as the disabled, were able
to know their needs. And I think that's something we
forget too often and we have to remind ourselves as
(40:58):
if we were going to be called allies again, this
is one of those terms I don't think we can
give to ourselves. It has to be given by the
community who is saying that you are an ally to us.
But to be there is to remember that they are
in the lead and that we need to follow their lead.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Period.
Speaker 5 (41:13):
So when they say there's problems with the ADA, we
need to look up why and see the research that
they're talking about and take that on as to yeah,
this is a problem that they shouldn't be getting crumbs,
they should be getting everything as well as when we
see and I've seen this, we haven't talked about this
in TikTok. There's a debate about ASL and subtitles and
the intersectionality event we need to have that we need
(41:37):
to follow those in that place, in that community and
not take on the battle as if it's ours and
we know better because we don't. There's a conversation about
if you truly want to learn ASL, that's great, maybe
look to the actual deaf community who.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Are willing to teach.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
And there are those out there who are teaching because
they know it best, and I think it's something that
we have to remember as well because we don't want
to be misled being taught something inappropriate. But yeah, but
there was that huge debate about that and also how
we are taking away work for those in the communities
who can teach much better. So so many things in
(42:16):
this that we have to be reminded of because this
is eye opening and it shouldn't be about pity, or
it shouldn't be about like watching to be a savior
for anyone, just but to truly understand and learn, and
that if we do want to be advocates to once
again remember they're already those out there in front, and
those are the ones that we need to look at
because they lived that life.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yes, they've been doing the work.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, So highly recommend this movie if you haven't watched it,
it is on Netflix, yes, and we suggest that you do.
And in the meantime, if you have a suggestion for
our next feminist movie Wednesday Friday or what have you,
please let us know. You can emails a stuff with
your mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
(43:00):
us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram
at Stuff I've Never Told You.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Thanks as always to our superducer Christina.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
Thank you, Christina.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You
this production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you
can visit the Ahart Radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
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Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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