December 7, 2024 • 26 mins
You better watch out, you better think twice, or Iceland's ogress witch Grýla will chop you up and put you in a stew. Tis the season for Christmas witches, so we share the icy tale of Grýla and her dark family, with a few honorable mentions in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I welcome to stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I never told you production if I heard you, And
today we are bringing back a classic holiday appropriate that
was I think it was your idea, Samantha, but I
loved it. And it was on Greela the Iceland's Christmas Witch. Yeah,
(00:32):
it was a fun one. It was a fun one,
and it's been on my mind because over on the
other show I Do Saver, we're doing an episode on Skier.
The depending on who you ask, yogurt or thick Cheese.
But one of the goblins we talked about in this
(00:54):
story steals Skier. So it just made me think of it,
and I thought it would be a fun one to
bring back as we enter the end of the year
getting dark ely. Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness in Iceland.
It was really fun to research this one, so please
enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Danny and Samantha
(01:21):
and welcome to Steffan never told you a protection of iHeartRadio.
So I am so excited about this one.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I am so so excited because.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Probably a lot of you experienced the same thing. We've
talked about it every year we talk about it, but
for us like when the holidays come, it doesn't it
means like a sprint to the end with getting ahead
with work, so you can quote take time off and
you really.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Want to anticipate it.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So I think it was like October we were talking
about this.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Well, we were talking about the fact that we've been
talking about witches yes much, and we were like, oh,
it's gonna be said, We're not gonna talk about witches anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
But then but.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Then you had the idea like, I wonder if there's
a Christmas witch, how there had to be yes, and
you were correct, You correct. There are multiple Christmas witches,
some of which are kind of like nice and.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Curb commercial.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Because we found a book as well called The Christmas Switch,
which is not what we were looking at looking for,
but maybe we'll look into one day. No, we were
talking about like a Christmas witch.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Like we're talking Grim's fairy tale level.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And so we've had this outline since then four months
and yeah, today we are talking about Griela the Christmas Witch.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I will say I.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Looked up the pronunciation, but it was from a UK
video and this is an Icelandic which so hopefully Griela
is correct, but if not, please let us know.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
And yeah, this was gonna be a bit shorter.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Because again, holidays have got a lot going on, not
too much as written about Greela sadly enough, although I
did get a personal anecdote last night.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I can't wait to share it. Yes, oh it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
But yeah, yeah, if you have any details we missed
any Christmas witches we should shot out, please let us know.
And yeah, if you if you listen to this and
you're like, you know what, this is my thing?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I want more.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
We have done so many episodes on witches, as you said,
we have done so many episodes on witches. We've done
episodes on monsters. We've done episodes on why women love monsters.
I would say our discussion of Bobby Yaga is particularly
relevant to this conversation. Bobby Yaga came up in a
lot of articles about Reela, So.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Go check that one out if you'd like. That was
a good one. That was a fun one too.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, and this is definitely much more our lane when
it comes to the holidays.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Of like, like I got twist, let's take it twist.
Everyone else is doing this. Let's go for the halloweenish
version of what we.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Can do, yes, yes, and it is super fun. So yeah,
if you're looking at the darker side of Christmas stories
and legends, which there are quite a few. One that
has gained a lot of cultural traction here in the US,
including parades and a whole movie I've seen, I've seen
a play about him is Crampis, the hoofed, horned German figure.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
But you really don't hear so.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Much about Greela, the Christmas ogris and witch from Icelandic legend,
although she did recently pop up in something which we
will talk about. Yeah says yes and kind of a
shortened thing because we have talked about which is a lot.
But Christmas whiches have roots in pagan history, to deities
(05:00):
and spirits that were thought to be women from those
festivals around this time, especially like Harvest Hesshols are like cool,
the you know, Winter's coming, that kind of thing. I
actually did find a Game of Thrones and Greila connection.
It was a whole article. I didn't make it, but anyway,
and many of these Christmas witches do have connections to
(05:21):
the cold and deadly dark weather of winter, and Greela
is definitely in that realm and she evolved from these beliefs.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Huh, I wonder if it's related to the line in
The Witch of the Wardrobe with the White Witch.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yes, I bet it absolutely is.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
She's one that keeps winter there exactly, thoughts. So let's
break down Grela's history. The legend of Grela dates back
to the thirteenth century Iceland, and she is not one
to be trifled with. She lives in a cold, dark
cave in the hinterlands and is the mother of monsters
(06:01):
and the eater of naughty children. Yes, she snatches them
up and cooks them into a delicious stew. Of course,
her name loosely translates to growler.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That makes sense, Yeah, Like you'd hear this like growling
sound as she goes oo.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Stories of Greela started as mostly oral and the first
written accounts started showing up in the thirteenth century, so
that's kind of why this is when we know the
story for sure, but it was probably around long before that.
Take this poem from the time, Here comes Grila down
in the field with fifteen tails on her. Another poem reads,
down comes Greela from the outer fields with forty tails,
(06:43):
a bag in her back, a sword knife in her hand.
Coming to carve out the stomachs of children who cry
for meat during lint.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Big no No.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Other poems mentioned her and her husband, who she later
ate because she was bored.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
You know, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, she had multiple husbands. One historian described her as
the first feminist.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
In Iceland, which really cracks me up.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I don't think it was related to the eating of
the husband or multiple Is this.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Like the conservative definition of they're gonna eat the men?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, well, be bored.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
But yeah, so never fear, because Greila did get a
second husband, who was this troll like figure who has
a name, but I did not put it in here
because I knew I butchered the pronunciation. Oh yes, he's
also kind of a figure in this because the story
of Grila is also the story of her whole interesting family. Okay, yes,
(07:52):
including a huge man eating yule cat.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Who's cat.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's like a well, it's a just a cat that
comes out around this time, Okay, so okay, yeah, it's
like it's I've seen illustrations of it, and it's like
a big black cat. I've seen some of the descriptions
make it sound much more kind of like cerberus, like
glowing red eyes kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Others are kind of like, it's just a big butt cat.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So I don't know, but this can't purposely targeted those,
especially kids. But anybody really who wasn't wearing any new clothes.
It could be like a sock, it could be underwear.
But if you weren't wearing any new clothes during this time,
you were in trouble. Because so all of this they
(08:42):
come out. It's supposed to be as winters coming, it's
getting darker and colder. This is when they start, you know,
checking in on what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You need new clothes. It's getting cold.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
I think that your cat as classes, but I don't.
I don't like it. How dare you if we can't
afford those.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
New To round out the family, she had thirteen adult
sons called the thirteen Mule Lads. Each of these huge
(09:25):
dudes has their own reputation of mayhem during December, including
sausage wiping, door slamming, and left over eating. We're gonna
go into them more a bit later, but just okay,
this is her family, this is what she's got going on.
They weren't related at first. They kind of got you know,
pushed together over time. But at first they kind of separate,
(09:46):
separate legends, and then they all got mashed up together, mush.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Together, one horrible family.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
So this gets a bit complicated in terms of how
modern day Christmas.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Has transformed over time.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
But in Iceland at the time, there was a midwinter
holiday related to English and Germanic Yule that involved a
lot of gathering, feasting, celebrating all the things that many
of us associate with holidays. Ohever, because of Iceland's geographic
location during this time of year, it's generally darker for longer.
(10:20):
And yes, I have a TikTok account that lives in Iceland,
I watch compared to somewhere like the US, for instance.
And these early celebrations were not only an opportunity to
connect with a living and the.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Dead, but also with creatures like trolls.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Elves, and other things in that realm that were believed
to inhabit the area. It was believed that sometimes these
creatures wore flesh faces to visit houses and farms.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yeah you'll never notice, you'll never reck it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So freaky, like, hello, yes, I am normal.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So one of these creatures in this realm was Greela,
who Yeah, we're going to get into this more in
a second, but a lot of different descriptions of Kreela
generally has a horntail, at least one horned tail, and
a bag I that she would throw at children, specifically
ones that she deemed to be naughty. She wasn't necessarily
(11:22):
associated with Christmas, as I said, but more the place,
the cold mountains, the danger that the season came with
in terms of weather, the darkness and snow engulfing the land.
She was the one who had the power over this
land and those living there, especially during winter.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
People were at her whim and mercy, or the lack thereof.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Her physical descriptions have varied over the years, from more
ogre like to more old witch like. Here's a quote
from mental Floss Grella might look like though like all
Icelandic trolls, she's a growth, massive giant. One rhyme says
she has fifteen tails, each of which holds one hundred bags,
with twenty children in each bag, doomed to be a
(12:08):
feast for the troll's family. Another says she has forty tails,
and still another says she carries a bag of children
on her thighs all right. Some poems say she has
three hundred heads, each of which has three eyes. Other
describes eyes in the back of her head, ears that
hang so long that they hit her in the nose
of matted beard, black and teeth and who's all these
(12:32):
stories agree on one point.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
She is very very ugly. You ugly?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Oh oh okay.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, And there has been surprise not to me,
but to many probably some scholarly debate about why most
of these witches are ugly. Some we've discussed before, like
links to perceived wildness of pagan as them or just
you know, Spinster's old woman, Spinster must be ugly. Others
(13:05):
speculate it's almost an end of the year thing, more symbolic,
so like because she's a winter which the end of
the year's coming. Like maybe at the beginning of the
year it's like she's a baby. By the end she's
like this.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
And others say that instead of summoning our causing bad weather,
the witch is scared away, like maybe so this isn't
commassing more than just grela, but like their ugliness, I feel.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Terrible saying that. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Agrela.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But their appearance is part of scaring the weatherway that
they're actually not bringing it.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Oh, that's the greater good.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
That's some interpretations of it.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Others are just like they're just kind of like a
part of the land and you have to respect the
land and the danger of the winter.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Like there's a lot, there's a lot going on. There's
a going on here.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It wasn't until the nineteenth century that people started to
associate Greela with Christmas specifically. It was also at the
same time that the menacing Yule Cat and thirteen Yule
Lads were more clearly linked to her, becoming like this big,
dark family. And by the way, the stories of the
Mule Lads got so bad parents were banned from telling
(14:16):
them to their kids in Iceland in seventeen forty six.
The stories, well, you know, we've talked about this before,
because the function of a lot of these is to
get your children to behave right. But it sounds like
it got kind of out of hand with the staring
of the children part.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I mean, it kind of makes sense again, like they
went from Crampus and Grila to Santa Claus.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
But I wanted to reinforce instead of de ter.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yes, yes, yes, yiss, and I would love for listeners
to write in. But I did find a couple of
fascinating essays about how legends like this or stories like this,
especially in in Iceland are more generally Europe, perhaps specifically Iceland,
(15:04):
like are just so important too, How like they're more
they're taken more seriously than they are here I guess right,
Like they are kind of respected and people hear them
and still hear them, and like it's almost a matter
of respecting this darkness in this winter and this environment
(15:25):
of Iceland.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
It was interesting, very very interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And as you're saying, Samantha, the twentieth century saw American
depictions of Santa Claus spreading throughout Europe, and that did
impact how the Yule lads were drawn much more Santa
e bigger bellies, red whiskers. Instead of taking stuff and
causing mayhem, they started leaving gifts. And Griela was threatened
(15:52):
with eternal extinction by those who wanted the winter holidays
to be more family friendly, with one song going into
detail about their death, like they actually try to kill
her off.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
We want this to be a time of rabbites.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yes, and This trend didn't really reverse until recently. In Iceland,
an effort by the National Museum of Iceland has been
pushing to restore the yule ads to their pre Santus cells.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And I want to go over their names now and
what they do. I love it. And this is from
the museum.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So there's sheep coat clod he tries to suckle use
in farmer sheep sheds. Gulligalk. He steals foams from buckets
of cow milk. Stubby, he short and steals food from
frying pans. Spoon liquor. He licks spoons.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Would you call me.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Pot scraper aka pot liquor? He steals unwashed pots and
licks them clean. Bowl liquor. He steals bowls of food
from under the bed. Back in the old days, Icelanders
used to sometimes store bowls of food. They're convenient for
midnight snacking. Perhaps door slammer. He stops around in slam's doors,
keeping everyone awake. Skier gobbler, he eats up all the
(17:10):
Icelandic yogurt.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Skier.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I think that's how you pronounce it. Sausage swiper he
loves stolen sausages. A window paper he likes to creep
outside windows and sometimes steal the stuff he sees inside
door sniffer.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
He has a.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Huge nose and an insatiable appetite for stolen baked okay
meat hook He snatches up any meat left out, especially
smoked lamb Candle beggar. He steals candles, which used to
be sought after items in Iceland.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I like these very specific, right somewhat. Yeah, they are
all really gross, sparely.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Why do they have to lick so many things necessary?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I know, Well, it's funny too to me again, going
back to that point of it, sounds like it's just
trying to get you to like clean up after yourself, right,
like ball, Yes.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
And apparently you know closed the door.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, yeah, well that one's kind of that. That's like
plug in your keyhole. I guess.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I don't know. I got a very big kick out
of this.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I've never heard of it, but as I mentioned at
the top, I was telling people that I was doing
this research a couple of days ago, and somebody was like.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Oh, no, I know Grela.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I've heard of Krila because I went to Iceland to
visit a friend, and.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
This is his story.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
He says when he got there, he saw a statue
of her in the airport and was like, whoa, if
you haven't seen a statue of her, whoa. She's intense
and was kind of taken aback that he saw the
statue in the airport. But then one of these yul ads,
somebody dresses, one of these juwel ads, kept opening and
(18:54):
closing the door to his taxi and he didn't know
what was going on because he's an American heard of this.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
So wait, was it a real person doing this thing?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah what okay?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
But he knew he knew all about it because he
said he had to ask his friend, like, what was that?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And his friend told him about Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
That was alarming because you're like, are you trying to
kidnap me? I've scene taken?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
No, sir, no, sir, I say, and this I've I
This is where I want you listeners to write in.
Apparently kids are still terrified of her. They're still are
freaked out by Grila. There are depictions of her across
Iceland to remind folks about Greela, and she and her
(19:41):
sons were recently featured in the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina
on Netflix where she was a witch that protected mistreated
children instead of turning them into stew Yeah. Yeah, so
there's definitely been kind of an embracing of of this creepier,
more historical version of and her whole.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Family and her whole family. Yes, yeah, looking at the pictures,
she's gruesome. But apparently there's really fun ornaments. I want one,
I know, Agreedla ornament would be amazing.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Yeah, Oh my.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Gosh, I do.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I want one too, And I think if we hear
from listeners, I think we do a follow up on
Greta because I feel like there's got to be more
about her.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
But that's about what we could find.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Is most of this came from one really helpful article
deep Dive from the Smithsonian if you want to read more.
It's amazing, and there's there was a lot more academic
stuff about like witches and winter, which is in general
that was not.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Exactly what we were looking for for our.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Easy kind of winter episode, but fascinating and we could
return to at a later date. We did want to
go through a couple more examples quickly, because Greela is
(21:01):
not the only Christmas witch in town, as we said,
and we've got a few honorable mentions that when I
read about, I was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
No, we have to I have to at least mention this.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So there's an Austrian and Bavarian one, fral Pershta, who
around Christmas time checks into sea which kids have been
naughty or nice. The naughty ones get their torsos split
open and stuffed with straw.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Obviously, obviously there's a lot of interesting ones about Frau
perche I.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Nobody is safe from her.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
But that was the one where I was like, whoa
we really like from zero two hundred quickly ready and
the parents are supposed to find the body the next
say that's so gruesome.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
That's horrible. It is open, stuffed with straw. Yep, what
happens to the good kids?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Nothing?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yes, if you don't get open stuff, yes. But at
the same time, then there's Italy's La Bifana. La Bifana
is descended from pagan witches and based on the story,
can write a go to our broom or both maybe,
and it's typically very crone like in appearance. Generally, good
(22:22):
kids are safe from La Bifana and may even get
some candy from her. Bad kids however, might get coal.
Some versions have candy shaped like coal, which I guess
is fine, but they could also get scooped up and
taken to her home to be fed to her cannibalistic husband,
which seems to be a theme just like Grila. There
(22:43):
have been some attempts to sanitize and Christianize her story,
with one going so far as to claim that the
three Wise Men stayed with her on their way to
see Baby Jesus, and when the men invite her to
join them, she declines. She says she's busy and in
some versions grieving the loss of her own child and
doesn't want to go, and then in some versions thinks
(23:05):
that Jesus is her own child.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
What huh? That went very far?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yes, I know, yes, I know.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
She changes her mind and goes and brings Jesus a gift,
and he loves it so much he makes her the
protector of Italian children, and some depictions of her she
even sweeps the floor of all the home she visits,
which is very nice. She's so beloved in Italy. There
are multiple festivals and markets held in her name, and
apparently one in Italy involves a boat race with people
(23:34):
dressed up as witches.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
So yeah, the guests, the celebrations now are of her
being a witch, not so much as the saint or
is it the saint version.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think I think there's both, but I think I
think she she's she started out as a much less
nice witch and evolved into a nicer witch, but I
think she's still like witch.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Okay, okay, she can still hold on too that claim.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes, that my understanding.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
But again, listeners writing because it seems she's still quite popular.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yeah, she's relevant.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, like festivals, fastivals, way to go, I know, yes,
that's let's take a trip this time. And then there
were a couple more I did want to mention this.
There wasn't like enough to do a whole mention of
them without going into I think this would be a
separate episode, But I did want to say there were
(24:27):
a couple of other Christmas, which is that actually were
more about harassing women than children, like a housewife is
not doing her job as well as she should be.
Some of it involved like leaving smudges of feces on
like laundry, like messing up housework, and sometimes splitting them
(24:51):
open and stuffing them with straw which I just found
fascinating because, as we said, these are so they're so
like moralistic, naughty or nice, do your chores or else
that I find it interesting that there are some versions
of them that are specifically towards women and housewives from
this time. So just a note that I had when
(25:13):
I was doing this research, like huh okay, interesting, yep,
very interesting. I mean honestly, the research was very fun.
This was a fun one to research. So if you
listeners again you have any follow ups, any more details,
any suggestions, any legends which ye other, which is there
(25:34):
are also some.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Really cool like women in food and.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Which is traditions that I found, So if you know
about those, please let us know, yes.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And you can contact us in many ways.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You can email us at Stephanie Mom's Stuff at iHeartMedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.
Thanks It's always to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And thanks to you you for listening. Steph Never Told You.
Dispection about iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
you can check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or where you listen to your favorite shows,
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I welcome to stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I never told you production if I heard you, And
today we are bringing back a classic holiday appropriate that
was I think it was your idea, Samantha, but I
loved it. And it was on Greela the Iceland's Christmas Witch. Yeah,
(00:32):
it was a fun one. It was a fun one,
and it's been on my mind because over on the
other show I Do Saver, we're doing an episode on Skier.
The depending on who you ask, yogurt or thick Cheese.
But one of the goblins we talked about in this
(00:54):
story steals Skier. So it just made me think of it,
and I thought it would be a fun one to
bring back as we enter the end of the year
getting dark ely. Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness in Iceland.
It was really fun to research this one, so please
enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Danny and Samantha
(01:21):
and welcome to Steffan never told you a protection of iHeartRadio.
So I am so excited about this one.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I am so so excited because.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Probably a lot of you experienced the same thing. We've
talked about it every year we talk about it, but
for us like when the holidays come, it doesn't it
means like a sprint to the end with getting ahead
with work, so you can quote take time off and
you really.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Want to anticipate it.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So I think it was like October we were talking
about this.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Well, we were talking about the fact that we've been
talking about witches yes much, and we were like, oh,
it's gonna be said, We're not gonna talk about witches anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
But then but.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Then you had the idea like, I wonder if there's
a Christmas witch, how there had to be yes, and
you were correct, You correct. There are multiple Christmas witches,
some of which are kind of like nice and.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Curb commercial.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Because we found a book as well called The Christmas Switch,
which is not what we were looking at looking for,
but maybe we'll look into one day. No, we were
talking about like a Christmas witch.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Like we're talking Grim's fairy tale level.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And so we've had this outline since then four months
and yeah, today we are talking about Griela the Christmas Witch.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I will say I.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Looked up the pronunciation, but it was from a UK
video and this is an Icelandic which so hopefully Griela
is correct, but if not, please let us know.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
And yeah, this was gonna be a bit shorter.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Because again, holidays have got a lot going on, not
too much as written about Greela sadly enough, although I
did get a personal anecdote last night.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I can't wait to share it. Yes, oh it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
But yeah, yeah, if you have any details we missed
any Christmas witches we should shot out, please let us know.
And yeah, if you if you listen to this and
you're like, you know what, this is my thing?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I want more.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
We have done so many episodes on witches, as you said,
we have done so many episodes on witches. We've done
episodes on monsters. We've done episodes on why women love monsters.
I would say our discussion of Bobby Yaga is particularly
relevant to this conversation. Bobby Yaga came up in a
lot of articles about Reela, So.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Go check that one out if you'd like. That was
a good one. That was a fun one too.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, and this is definitely much more our lane when
it comes to the holidays.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Of like, like I got twist, let's take it twist.
Everyone else is doing this. Let's go for the halloweenish
version of what we.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Can do, yes, yes, and it is super fun. So yeah,
if you're looking at the darker side of Christmas stories
and legends, which there are quite a few. One that
has gained a lot of cultural traction here in the US,
including parades and a whole movie I've seen, I've seen
a play about him is Crampis, the hoofed, horned German figure.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
But you really don't hear so.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Much about Greela, the Christmas ogris and witch from Icelandic legend,
although she did recently pop up in something which we
will talk about. Yeah says yes and kind of a
shortened thing because we have talked about which is a lot.
But Christmas whiches have roots in pagan history, to deities
(05:00):
and spirits that were thought to be women from those
festivals around this time, especially like Harvest Hesshols are like cool,
the you know, Winter's coming, that kind of thing. I
actually did find a Game of Thrones and Greila connection.
It was a whole article. I didn't make it, but anyway,
and many of these Christmas witches do have connections to
(05:21):
the cold and deadly dark weather of winter, and Greela
is definitely in that realm and she evolved from these beliefs.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Huh, I wonder if it's related to the line in
The Witch of the Wardrobe with the White Witch.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yes, I bet it absolutely is.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
She's one that keeps winter there exactly, thoughts. So let's
break down Grela's history. The legend of Grela dates back
to the thirteenth century Iceland, and she is not one
to be trifled with. She lives in a cold, dark
cave in the hinterlands and is the mother of monsters
(06:01):
and the eater of naughty children. Yes, she snatches them
up and cooks them into a delicious stew. Of course,
her name loosely translates to growler.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That makes sense, Yeah, Like you'd hear this like growling
sound as she goes oo.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Stories of Greela started as mostly oral and the first
written accounts started showing up in the thirteenth century, so
that's kind of why this is when we know the
story for sure, but it was probably around long before that.
Take this poem from the time, Here comes Grila down
in the field with fifteen tails on her. Another poem reads,
down comes Greela from the outer fields with forty tails,
(06:43):
a bag in her back, a sword knife in her hand.
Coming to carve out the stomachs of children who cry
for meat during lint.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Big no No.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Other poems mentioned her and her husband, who she later
ate because she was bored.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
You know, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, she had multiple husbands. One historian described her as
the first feminist.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
In Iceland, which really cracks me up.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I don't think it was related to the eating of
the husband or multiple Is this.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Like the conservative definition of they're gonna eat the men?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, well, be bored.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
But yeah, so never fear, because Greila did get a
second husband, who was this troll like figure who has
a name, but I did not put it in here
because I knew I butchered the pronunciation. Oh yes, he's
also kind of a figure in this because the story
of Grila is also the story of her whole interesting family. Okay, yes,
(07:52):
including a huge man eating yule cat.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Who's cat.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's like a well, it's a just a cat that
comes out around this time, Okay, so okay, yeah, it's
like it's I've seen illustrations of it, and it's like
a big black cat. I've seen some of the descriptions
make it sound much more kind of like cerberus, like
glowing red eyes kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Others are kind of like, it's just a big butt cat.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So I don't know, but this can't purposely targeted those,
especially kids. But anybody really who wasn't wearing any new clothes.
It could be like a sock, it could be underwear.
But if you weren't wearing any new clothes during this time,
you were in trouble. Because so all of this they
(08:42):
come out. It's supposed to be as winters coming, it's
getting darker and colder. This is when they start, you know,
checking in on what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You need new clothes. It's getting cold.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
I think that your cat as classes, but I don't.
I don't like it. How dare you if we can't
afford those.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
New To round out the family, she had thirteen adult
sons called the thirteen Mule Lads. Each of these huge
(09:25):
dudes has their own reputation of mayhem during December, including
sausage wiping, door slamming, and left over eating. We're gonna
go into them more a bit later, but just okay,
this is her family, this is what she's got going on.
They weren't related at first. They kind of got you know,
pushed together over time. But at first they kind of separate,
(09:46):
separate legends, and then they all got mashed up together, mush.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Together, one horrible family.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
So this gets a bit complicated in terms of how
modern day Christmas.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Has transformed over time.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
But in Iceland at the time, there was a midwinter
holiday related to English and Germanic Yule that involved a
lot of gathering, feasting, celebrating all the things that many
of us associate with holidays. Ohever, because of Iceland's geographic
location during this time of year, it's generally darker for longer.
(10:20):
And yes, I have a TikTok account that lives in Iceland,
I watch compared to somewhere like the US, for instance.
And these early celebrations were not only an opportunity to
connect with a living and the.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Dead, but also with creatures like trolls.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Elves, and other things in that realm that were believed
to inhabit the area. It was believed that sometimes these
creatures wore flesh faces to visit houses and farms.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yeah you'll never notice, you'll never reck it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So freaky, like, hello, yes, I am normal.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So one of these creatures in this realm was Greela,
who Yeah, we're going to get into this more in
a second, but a lot of different descriptions of Kreela
generally has a horntail, at least one horned tail, and
a bag I that she would throw at children, specifically
ones that she deemed to be naughty. She wasn't necessarily
(11:22):
associated with Christmas, as I said, but more the place,
the cold mountains, the danger that the season came with
in terms of weather, the darkness and snow engulfing the land.
She was the one who had the power over this
land and those living there, especially during winter.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
People were at her whim and mercy, or the lack thereof.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Her physical descriptions have varied over the years, from more
ogre like to more old witch like. Here's a quote
from mental Floss Grella might look like though like all
Icelandic trolls, she's a growth, massive giant. One rhyme says
she has fifteen tails, each of which holds one hundred bags,
with twenty children in each bag, doomed to be a
(12:08):
feast for the troll's family. Another says she has forty tails,
and still another says she carries a bag of children
on her thighs all right. Some poems say she has
three hundred heads, each of which has three eyes. Other
describes eyes in the back of her head, ears that
hang so long that they hit her in the nose
of matted beard, black and teeth and who's all these
(12:32):
stories agree on one point.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
She is very very ugly. You ugly?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Oh oh okay.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, And there has been surprise not to me,
but to many probably some scholarly debate about why most
of these witches are ugly. Some we've discussed before, like
links to perceived wildness of pagan as them or just
you know, Spinster's old woman, Spinster must be ugly. Others
(13:05):
speculate it's almost an end of the year thing, more symbolic,
so like because she's a winter which the end of
the year's coming. Like maybe at the beginning of the
year it's like she's a baby. By the end she's
like this.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
And others say that instead of summoning our causing bad weather,
the witch is scared away, like maybe so this isn't
commassing more than just grela, but like their ugliness, I feel.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Terrible saying that. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Agrela.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But their appearance is part of scaring the weatherway that
they're actually not bringing it.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Oh, that's the greater good.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
That's some interpretations of it.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Others are just like they're just kind of like a
part of the land and you have to respect the
land and the danger of the winter.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Like there's a lot, there's a lot going on. There's
a going on here.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It wasn't until the nineteenth century that people started to
associate Greela with Christmas specifically. It was also at the
same time that the menacing Yule Cat and thirteen Yule
Lads were more clearly linked to her, becoming like this big,
dark family. And by the way, the stories of the
Mule Lads got so bad parents were banned from telling
(14:16):
them to their kids in Iceland in seventeen forty six.
The stories, well, you know, we've talked about this before,
because the function of a lot of these is to
get your children to behave right. But it sounds like
it got kind of out of hand with the staring
of the children part.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I mean, it kind of makes sense again, like they
went from Crampus and Grila to Santa Claus.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
But I wanted to reinforce instead of de ter.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yes, yes, yes, yiss, and I would love for listeners
to write in. But I did find a couple of
fascinating essays about how legends like this or stories like this,
especially in in Iceland are more generally Europe, perhaps specifically Iceland,
(15:04):
like are just so important too, How like they're more
they're taken more seriously than they are here I guess right,
Like they are kind of respected and people hear them
and still hear them, and like it's almost a matter
of respecting this darkness in this winter and this environment
(15:25):
of Iceland.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
It was interesting, very very interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And as you're saying, Samantha, the twentieth century saw American
depictions of Santa Claus spreading throughout Europe, and that did
impact how the Yule lads were drawn much more Santa
e bigger bellies, red whiskers. Instead of taking stuff and
causing mayhem, they started leaving gifts. And Griela was threatened
(15:52):
with eternal extinction by those who wanted the winter holidays
to be more family friendly, with one song going into
detail about their death, like they actually try to kill
her off.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
We want this to be a time of rabbites.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yes, and This trend didn't really reverse until recently. In Iceland,
an effort by the National Museum of Iceland has been
pushing to restore the yule ads to their pre Santus cells.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And I want to go over their names now and
what they do. I love it. And this is from
the museum.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So there's sheep coat clod he tries to suckle use
in farmer sheep sheds. Gulligalk. He steals foams from buckets
of cow milk. Stubby, he short and steals food from
frying pans. Spoon liquor. He licks spoons.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Would you call me.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Pot scraper aka pot liquor? He steals unwashed pots and
licks them clean. Bowl liquor. He steals bowls of food
from under the bed. Back in the old days, Icelanders
used to sometimes store bowls of food. They're convenient for
midnight snacking. Perhaps door slammer. He stops around in slam's doors,
keeping everyone awake. Skier gobbler, he eats up all the
(17:10):
Icelandic yogurt.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Skier.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I think that's how you pronounce it. Sausage swiper he
loves stolen sausages. A window paper he likes to creep
outside windows and sometimes steal the stuff he sees inside
door sniffer.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
He has a.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Huge nose and an insatiable appetite for stolen baked okay
meat hook He snatches up any meat left out, especially
smoked lamb Candle beggar. He steals candles, which used to
be sought after items in Iceland.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I like these very specific, right somewhat. Yeah, they are
all really gross, sparely.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Why do they have to lick so many things necessary?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I know, Well, it's funny too to me again, going
back to that point of it, sounds like it's just
trying to get you to like clean up after yourself, right,
like ball, Yes.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
And apparently you know closed the door.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, yeah, well that one's kind of that. That's like
plug in your keyhole. I guess.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I don't know. I got a very big kick out
of this.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I've never heard of it, but as I mentioned at
the top, I was telling people that I was doing
this research a couple of days ago, and somebody was like.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Oh, no, I know Grela.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I've heard of Krila because I went to Iceland to
visit a friend, and.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
This is his story.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
He says when he got there, he saw a statue
of her in the airport and was like, whoa, if
you haven't seen a statue of her, whoa. She's intense
and was kind of taken aback that he saw the
statue in the airport. But then one of these yul ads,
somebody dresses, one of these juwel ads, kept opening and
(18:54):
closing the door to his taxi and he didn't know
what was going on because he's an American heard of this.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
So wait, was it a real person doing this thing?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah what okay?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
But he knew he knew all about it because he
said he had to ask his friend, like, what was that?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And his friend told him about Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
That was alarming because you're like, are you trying to
kidnap me? I've scene taken?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
No, sir, no, sir, I say, and this I've I
This is where I want you listeners to write in.
Apparently kids are still terrified of her. They're still are
freaked out by Grila. There are depictions of her across
Iceland to remind folks about Greela, and she and her
(19:41):
sons were recently featured in the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina
on Netflix where she was a witch that protected mistreated
children instead of turning them into stew Yeah. Yeah, so
there's definitely been kind of an embracing of of this creepier,
more historical version of and her whole.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Family and her whole family. Yes, yeah, looking at the pictures,
she's gruesome. But apparently there's really fun ornaments. I want one,
I know, Agreedla ornament would be amazing.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Yeah, Oh my.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Gosh, I do.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I want one too, And I think if we hear
from listeners, I think we do a follow up on
Greta because I feel like there's got to be more
about her.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
But that's about what we could find.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Is most of this came from one really helpful article
deep Dive from the Smithsonian if you want to read more.
It's amazing, and there's there was a lot more academic
stuff about like witches and winter, which is in general
that was not.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Exactly what we were looking for for our.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Easy kind of winter episode, but fascinating and we could
return to at a later date. We did want to
go through a couple more examples quickly, because Greela is
(21:01):
not the only Christmas witch in town, as we said,
and we've got a few honorable mentions that when I
read about, I was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
No, we have to I have to at least mention this.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So there's an Austrian and Bavarian one, fral Pershta, who
around Christmas time checks into sea which kids have been
naughty or nice. The naughty ones get their torsos split
open and stuffed with straw.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Obviously, obviously there's a lot of interesting ones about Frau
perche I.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Nobody is safe from her.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
But that was the one where I was like, whoa
we really like from zero two hundred quickly ready and
the parents are supposed to find the body the next
say that's so gruesome.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
That's horrible. It is open, stuffed with straw. Yep, what
happens to the good kids?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Nothing?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yes, if you don't get open stuff, yes. But at
the same time, then there's Italy's La Bifana. La Bifana
is descended from pagan witches and based on the story,
can write a go to our broom or both maybe,
and it's typically very crone like in appearance. Generally, good
(22:22):
kids are safe from La Bifana and may even get
some candy from her. Bad kids however, might get coal.
Some versions have candy shaped like coal, which I guess
is fine, but they could also get scooped up and
taken to her home to be fed to her cannibalistic husband,
which seems to be a theme just like Grila. There
(22:43):
have been some attempts to sanitize and Christianize her story,
with one going so far as to claim that the
three Wise Men stayed with her on their way to
see Baby Jesus, and when the men invite her to
join them, she declines. She says she's busy and in
some versions grieving the loss of her own child and
doesn't want to go, and then in some versions thinks
(23:05):
that Jesus is her own child.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
What huh? That went very far?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yes, I know, yes, I know.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
She changes her mind and goes and brings Jesus a gift,
and he loves it so much he makes her the
protector of Italian children, and some depictions of her she
even sweeps the floor of all the home she visits,
which is very nice. She's so beloved in Italy. There
are multiple festivals and markets held in her name, and
apparently one in Italy involves a boat race with people
(23:34):
dressed up as witches.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
So yeah, the guests, the celebrations now are of her
being a witch, not so much as the saint or
is it the saint version.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think I think there's both, but I think I
think she she's she started out as a much less
nice witch and evolved into a nicer witch, but I
think she's still like witch.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Okay, okay, she can still hold on too that claim.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes, that my understanding.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
But again, listeners writing because it seems she's still quite popular.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yeah, she's relevant.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, like festivals, fastivals, way to go, I know, yes,
that's let's take a trip this time. And then there
were a couple more I did want to mention this.
There wasn't like enough to do a whole mention of
them without going into I think this would be a
separate episode, But I did want to say there were
(24:27):
a couple of other Christmas, which is that actually were
more about harassing women than children, like a housewife is
not doing her job as well as she should be.
Some of it involved like leaving smudges of feces on
like laundry, like messing up housework, and sometimes splitting them
(24:51):
open and stuffing them with straw which I just found
fascinating because, as we said, these are so they're so
like moralistic, naughty or nice, do your chores or else
that I find it interesting that there are some versions
of them that are specifically towards women and housewives from
this time. So just a note that I had when
(25:13):
I was doing this research, like huh okay, interesting, yep,
very interesting. I mean honestly, the research was very fun.
This was a fun one to research. So if you
listeners again you have any follow ups, any more details,
any suggestions, any legends which ye other, which is there
(25:34):
are also some.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Really cool like women in food and.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Which is traditions that I found, So if you know
about those, please let us know, yes.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And you can contact us in many ways.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You can email us at Stephanie Mom's Stuff at iHeartMedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.
Thanks It's always to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And thanks to you you for listening. Steph Never Told You.
Dispection about iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
you can check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or where you listen to your favorite shows,
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