SMNTY Classics: Ladies of the Blues

Black women have been the heart and soul of blues music since its inception. We talk about some of the mothers, queens and empresses of the blues in this classic episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie an Samantha.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm welcome to stuff. One never told you a production
by Heart Adio and we were back with another classic today.
Hard to say with scheduling, but this is coming out

(00:27):
towards the end of Black History Month in twenty twenty five.
We haven't chosen our movie yet, but there are a
couple of music options that might come up. But even so,
we thought it'd be cool to bring back the episode
we did on Ladies of the Blues and how Black
women really led. That were just the heart of that

(00:49):
and it was a really I got to listen to
a lot of good music.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
After that one, and I always loved that.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, so please enjoy this class episode. Hey, this is
Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff. I've never told
your protection of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
So Annie, I know who your favorite band was, which
is Green Day. What was your favorite album of all
time or even to this day.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh no, no, no, no, no, I can't do that.
That's a huge question.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
I was hoping it was gonna be embarrassing and not
necessarily a huge question.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
But okay, No, I do have a list of my
ten like favorite movies books just for these kinds of things,
and I have music on there and have songs on there,
but i'd have to consult it, and I need to
update it because I can tell you my favorite Green
Day album was American Idiot because it was like prime,

(02:01):
it came out at the right time for me, uh
and I loved it.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Is that an album that you consistently like, what is
your most placed album currently?

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Oh, I want to check now, I have no idea,
and I oh, I get a lot of flack about this,
but I don't use a lot of the popular streaming
music platforms, and so I listen to music I heart.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Of course I do, of course.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
But when that doesn't happen for whatever reason, I use
like Gosh, I use I have updated it so it's
still actually iTunes, it's not Apple. And then I use
YouTube music. I used to use Google play like, I
use really obscure kinds of things. So I don't think
there's an accurate count anywhere, because I listen all over

(02:53):
the place. I know for a long time, the top
played song was this. It's from Mass Effect three. It
is the opening credit song, and I played it on
repeat for an entire day when I moved and I
was being the most dramatic and most emo you could
ever imagine.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
That is delightful.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, So it's a bunch of I think it would
be a bunch of random songs from movies that had
some emotional impact for me. So every time I listened
to it, it brings me back to that emotional scene
or something.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, well my favorite. So I call it
some kind of Blue. For the longest time, I was like,
I don't know why, but it's just kind of blue anyway. So, yeah,
one of my favorite albums and that I've had to
buy repeatedly because I had the CD for it for
a while and I had the like the red deluxe

(03:47):
mix was Miles Davis. Kind of Blue probably my favorite
album to date, and I have listened to it for
over twenty five years after I discovered it, and it
puts me in a specif mood like you were saying,
there's a lot of smooth eeriness to it that I love,
and I know the transformation and his growth in his

(04:11):
music is so phenomenal. But that is one of my
favorite albums I'm a huge fan of. Really, this is
kind of in my musical days because I really really
also Love Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong's Collapse. For some reason,
those were my favorite songs and I really like it
just makes me happy when I hear them singing silly

(04:34):
songs like Starry Night and all of those are just like, oh,
I want to dance to this, even though like watching
them sing is just them singing at each other with
big smiles on their face. I love it. But stuff
like that like so reminiscent to me of like the
musicals and just like feeling something but feeling happy but

(04:54):
then then having some kind of blue like the depth
of like remembering and the depth of his music that
had pain but joy but growth like all of that.
And while we were watching Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, it
really put me in that same mood. Of course, the
whole movie in itself was just like, oh, like a

(05:16):
gut punch anyway, but because we watched that, and after
we watched that, we were like, we need to talk
more about these amazing women of the blues. And so
today that's what made me think about it, because I
definitely had a moment of like, I need to listen
to Miles Davis today. I need to listen to Ella Fitzgerald,

(05:37):
whom I love. I need to keep listening to Eda James,
Like obviously these are the names.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
That we know.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
But for today, we wanted to kind of go back
a little further, a little beginning and kind of the
beginning of women in blues and who they were and
what they did, and why we should continue to say
their name in the history of them so they don't
get erased. Which is that conversation about Ma Raini. It
took a long time for people to really recognize who

(06:04):
she was because Bessie Smith, it was a big time
for women in the blues when Mo Rainie came through,
Bessie Smith got a lot of credit. And then later
on we know, like elfhis Gerald, as we said, Billie Holiday,
all of them had a lot more backing and publicity,
I think is the way I would say it today.
We wanted to talk about these amazing women and about

(06:25):
the history of the blues. But yeah, before we start,
let's talk about that history. Much like most of the
music in the United States, blues began and was created
by the enslaved black community. We know if we look
back at all the music and trace it all the
way back the black community probably was the one that
we should be thankful to. And it's no surprise here

(06:46):
in the early nineteenth century they think was the when
they it kind of heightened. We know that gospel and
the blues all kind of sound similar in that what
they were doing, what they were speaking, and then of
course jazz came along with that. As one article writes,
the foundation of the blues is a combination of quote
religious spirituals and African styles, and later that would be

(07:08):
combined with folk music known for US as country blues,
which is typically a solo singer with a guitar or
a piano, such as that of Robert Johnson. And Robert
Johnson is also the one that has that legend of
selling his soul for his gift in music, so he
is kind of that crush so everything if you listen
to his which is by the way, phenomenal, and there's

(07:32):
a lot of mystery behind him, So if you love
any kind of historical context and musicians, there's a lot
of mystery, like he just kind of came out of
nowhere and it was this talented musician. The way people
tell it is that he never played guitar when they
picked it up, made a deal with the Devil and
became one of the best musicians, and a lot of
his songs includes the Crossroads of the Devil, like all

(07:55):
of those, so he definitely has kind of pioneered some
of that sound. And then there is the Delta Blues,
which originated from the Mississippi Delta around the early nineteen
hundreds but got big attraction in the nineteen twenties. Also,
you need to understand this is probably one of the
worst areas technically in history and the treatment of the

(08:15):
enslaved community, and so there was a lot of conversation
about how that music was formed and how deep and
how soulful it was. And again, different places, different where
This is one of those hard things that we know
when a community is not treated properly and or ignored,
most likely we're not going to get the in depth
history or typically anything written about it. So what we

(08:37):
have is a lot of different sources letting us know
what's happening and who did what. But the Delta Blues
kind of came from that type of background. The Delta
Blues is quote traditional songs handed down by word of
mouth and old lyrics, which was recreated into a different
aditation and is often accompanied by a guitar and harmonica.

(08:58):
Quote the style it is very rhythmic, has strong vocals
and simple but powerful lyrics, and slide guitar featured prominently
in the music. So yeah, you definitely can hear the
twang of the guitar. I think this also goes in
that country blues kind of also could look at it
with the whole Oh brother, where art thou, which is
still very whitewashed, but it does have kind of the

(09:20):
legend of Robert Johnson in there by the way that
was based on him, And according to one of the articles,
the style of blues typically follows like this have four
beasts in a bar, are built on the twelve bar
blues form and uses three four bar phrases, so they
have three line verse structures where the second line repeats

(09:40):
the first for example AaB, and sometimes singers improvise the words.
The repetition of the first line gives them time to
think up the third line. So definitely kind of like
jazz in that it's from the heart and you feel
it and you go with it, which is also why
kind of like of them. Maybe one community is better

(10:03):
than the other. Okay, So now that we got the
history of that, let's talk about some of these legendary women.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yes, and let us start with Ma Raini herself.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
So we talked about her a bit in our feminist
movie Friday episode on the movie Maraini's Black Bottom, which
was adapted from a nineteen eighty dude play.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
So if you missed that episode, you can go check
it out. But all right.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Maraini was often referred to as the Mother of the Blues.
Born Gertrude Melissa Nix Pridgett from Columbus, Georgia, both of
her parents were performers excuse me, and it didn't take
her long to start displaying her own talents as a singer.
As a teenager, her debut performance was at the Springer

(11:01):
Opera House in Columbus, and she soon started traveling and
performing vaudeville acts. It was during one of her performance
circuits she met her husband, Will Pah Rainey, who was
a comedian and singer as well. Soon they were married
and partnered to form a double act, Ma and Paul Rainey.
They traveled and performed together for several years, but soon

(11:22):
would separate and she created her own show, Madame Gertrude
Ma Rainey and her Georgia smart set. Soon she would
start bringing in these large crowds and endoring fans to
shows she starred in across the country with songs like
I Ain't Got Nobody, a Good Man is Hard to
Find and CC Writer Blues. And she signed a recording

(11:45):
contract with Paramount Records in nineteen twenty three, So this
is sort of where the movie saw that a lot
of that going on. She recorded almost one hundred records
between nineteen twenty three and nineteen twenty eight, and it
just throughout the catalog. She had so many hits, and
when it came to her song she had a unique style.
One article says of her style, Rainy's songwriting was notable

(12:07):
for its raw depiction of life from the perspective of
a woman at struggling with heartbreak, depression, and other maladies.
But amidst these difficulties, Rainie's protagonists did not rely on
male partners or submit to the rules society tried to
inflict on them. In the song Oh Papa Blues, Rainy
tells of the wrongs a former lover committed against her,
but her lamentation soon turns to scheming for revenge and

(12:32):
prove it on me Blues, Rainy boasts about her attraction
to women and wearing men's clothing. As scholar and activist
Angela Davis wrote, the women in Rainy's songs quote explicitly
celebrate their right to conduct themselves as expansively and even
as undesirably as men. Though she lived in Chicago during

(12:53):
the twenties and early thirties, Rainy soon left after she
was no longer contracted with Paramount and traveled to continued
touring and performing, but soon returned home after the death
of her sister and mother to Columbus, Georgia. She was
active in church and even owned and managed two theaters
until she died at the age of fifty three of

(13:14):
heart disease.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Right, so, there are two people on our list that
were openly queer, and she was one of those, and
we love that story. So all is the fact that
we know she's just an amazing woman who stood her ground,
and we loved this. And while Maul Rainey was the
mother of the Blues, Mamie Smith, who we're going to
talk about next, was considered the queen of the Blues.

(13:38):
So Mami Smith became the first black singer to record
a song and the first person to record the blues
in nineteen twenty in New York City, and that song
was Crazy Blues.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Not much is known.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
About Mamie Smith's past, but many believed she was born
Mami Robinson in Cincinnati, Ohio, and she started performing at
the age of ten, dancing and touring with four Dancing Mitchell's.
Soon she would star in the musical Review Made in Harlem,
produced by Perry Bradford, and Bradford signed with a General
Photograph wanting to record some of his songs, and he

(14:10):
and Smith would record several songs together which would be
considered successful. Many recording companies follow suit because of this album,
signing other women blues singers, creating the new quote race
records market, which we kind of talked about a little
bit in Mo Rainie because it was all the hits,
so they were trying to bring in as many blue
singers as they could, sounding like Mammy Smith, Mo Rainie,

(14:32):
Bessie Smith, who we're talking about in just a few minutes.
But yeah, many credit Mammy Smith and Perry Bradford for
the beginning of the women in the Blues singing and
the success.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Smith was successful in her career and would go on
to record more records, toured with the Jazz Hounds, performing
in New York theaters, and even appeared in films in
the nineteen forties, and Smith continued to work until she
died in Harlem in nineteen forty six.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yes, and now we move on to a different Smith,
Bessie Smith. Yes, Yes, who was considered the Impress.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Of the Blues. I like this, we got a queen, yeah, mother,
We've got the empress. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, Well there was another one that we're not going
to talk about. Who is the uncrowned oh of the Blue.
So I was like, what does that mean?

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Oh well, I like this, it's like a superhero team
of musicians.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Bessie Smith was known for her powerful voice, very full
of soul. She signed a contract with Columbia Records in
nineteen twenty three and became one of the highest paid
black performers of her time. Smith was born in Chattanooga, Tennessee,
in eighteen twenty four. After both of her parents' deaths,
she was given to the care of her aunt along
with her remaining siblings, and it was during this time

(15:48):
she began to perform first street performances with her younger
brother playing guitar, but soon she performed as a dancer
in the Moses Stokes Minstrel Show and later on The
Rabbit Foot Minstrels, which is where she met Maraini.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Right, which is where they were rubored to have. Like
Maulrainie may have mentored her. So people say that's a
strong word for what it was, but they were definitely associated,
and it looks like not surprisingly because they were all
in Chicago or Harlem at one point in time, a
lot of them interacted together.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Soon Bessie Smith was discovered and was signed to Columbia Records,
where she would record the hit Downhearted Blues. She was
a success, not only touring all over, but was able
to buy her own custom railroad car to travel and
sleep in.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
I wonder how much that would cost. Another thing to
add to my middle age crisis list?

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Can I buy a railroad car?

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Going?

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (16:49):
And though Bessie Smith would go through some hardships in
her career and even changed her style as the times
changed to she continued in her career and touring up
until the day she tragically died on her way to
a show in Memphis, Tennessee. Yeah, she died in a
vehicle accident at the age of forty three. But her

(17:10):
impact in the world of blues is undeniable. It's obvious,
and it influenced so many artists, including our next one,
Billy Holliday.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Right and Billie Holiday born Eleanora Fagan is one of
the most iconic singers in the jazz blues world, well
in the world of music altogether, and her legend goes
beyond just her talent, and we thought it was really
important to bring her into this too, because she did
some things that went a little beyond just making records,
not that not all of them did, because they made
significant impact, but literally, she defied the United States government.

(17:45):
Holiday dared to sing when she was barred by the
FBI and by the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, whose leadership
at the time was willing to set her up in
order to shut her down. So like all these conspiracy things,
and not just any song, but a song that is
famous to this in this depiction of the horror of
the lynchings of the black community during the Jim Crow era.

(18:05):
The song Strange Fruit, which was originally written as a
poem titled Bitter Fruit, written by Abel Meerpole in nineteen
thirty seven, after which his wife wrote it as a
song and hearing it at Union rallies, including in Madison
Square Garden, it was brought to Holiday, who felt a
personal connection to the song due to her father's own
death after the hospitals refused to treat him because of

(18:27):
his race, and she first sang the song in the
dark room at the end of her show at the
New York Cafe Society in nineteen thirty nine. And yet
it caused a lot of conversation and a little bit
of controversy, and it was so controversial that her record company,
Columbia Records, would not produce it, but she finally did

(18:49):
through an independent label, the Commodore Records, and many, including
those from the black community, felt it was too controversial
to play at that time, but she did, and her
legacy and her voice powering the song that really just
still haunts. The first time I heard it, I think
I literally had to stand still listening to the lyrics
because I was like, Wow, her voice is beyond haunting,

(19:13):
and we all know her voice.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
She has a very unique voice.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
And yeah, like I said, people who are still listening
today have this picture from the lyrics that is painted
which implies this beautiful day that turns into a day
of nightmares and horrific tragedy. I mean, we could talk
about the history of this. We kind of mentioned about
the anti lynching bill which just passed with this song
happening in nineteen thirty nine. But with that, Yeah, she

(19:40):
stood up and she did it, and she continued to
do it even after she was told not to. And
she signed again with Columbia Records in nineteen fifty eight,
after which she was previously on Verb label, which she
made about one hundred new records and redefined herself as
the quote torch singer and I hear it with her
iconic voice. Her later recordings including her masterpiece Lady in Satin,

(20:03):
and her final album was released after her death, which
she recorded in nineteen fifty nine.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Now let's talk about Big Mama Thornton. Willie May Thornton
or Big Mama Thornton was born in December nineteen twenty
six in Araton, Alabama. I hope I'm not butchering that pronunciation.
After the death of her mother. When she was fourteen,
Thornton left to start her career and joined the Hot
Harlem Review from Georgia. She was a singer, a drummer,

(20:42):
and harmonica player and traveled with the Review for seven years.
In nineteen forty eight, Thornton moved to Houston, Texas, where
she started her recording career. Thornton signed on to Peacock
Records in nineteen fifty one. There she would travel with
Johnny Otis and a few others performing different show like
the Houstons, Bronze Peacock and at the Harlems Cotton Club.

(21:04):
And it was during this time she wrote and recorded
one of her most popular songs, hound Dog mm Hmmm,
which was released by Peacock in nineteen fifty three and
it topped the charts. It sold over two million copies.
And yes, this song would be recorded by Elvis Presley
in nineteen fifty six. And while this catapulted his career

(21:24):
in success, Thornton only received about five hundred dollars for it.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Right, I'm assuming that's a pretty good bit in the
nineteen fifties, but still nowhere near what she deserved.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, and what he was getting for sure, right, But
She continued to tour and record throughout her life, including
performing in nineteen eighty three along with Muddy Waters, BB
King and Lloyd Glenn.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Right, all right, let's talk about Lizzie Miles. So Lizzie
Miles was born in New Orleans on Bourbon Street in
eighteen ninety five, and she started singing as a teenager
with a neighborhood jazz band. She worked in Southern circuits
and different shows until she moved to Chicago in the
early twenties, performing with different bands like the Elger's Creole
Orchestra and King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band. So yes, this

(22:12):
is all during the Great Migration that we talked about
in our movie episode. And she soon moved to New
York after where she started her recording career, and she
would continue to work clubs and cabarets and would even
go on tour in Europe in Paris. Her style was unique.
She was nicknamed the Creole songbird. She was attributed with
Afro Creole blues, so it's very specific and her style

(22:35):
of performant was very specific. She was able to record
her work after signing with Okay Record in nineteen twenty
two and continue to do so, making almost seventy records,
and she would even record under pseudonyms on smaller labels.
So she kept recording and changed her name around just
to do her things. And like the other blues and
jazz artists of her time, she also hit hard times

(22:56):
due to the depression as well as the declining interest
in the blues, but there was a resurgence in her
career in the fifties, so she went on to sign
on to another label at that time with Cook Records,
and record three more albums and she even performed in
one Less festival before her retirement.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Wow, very prolific. Now let's talk about Lil Green.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Born Lillian Green in Mississippi in nineteen nineteen, and like
many others on this list, was heavily influenced by gospel
music and her religious family, and she was first discovered
in her church choir. Her and her family moved to
Chicago in the thirties, where she started to sing in
local clubs and was discovered by a producer at Bluebird Records,

(23:37):
and she was a favorite at the Apollo in Harlem
and would often tour with bands such as Big Bill
Brumsey and the Bennie Goodman's orchestra. She was soon signed
onto a record company, where she made two hits, including
her sultry rendition of why Don't You Do Right?

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, this is the version I know before I knew
the Jessica Rabbit bit, but Jessco Rabbit bit from who
framed Roger Rabbit.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, brought it back in.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
The eighties, and Everybody's like, what what is the song?
And then I was like, but I know this song
and if you listen and you can actually go listen
to it today on YouTube or anything fantastic like it
is very you know it immediately when you hear it.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Okay, definitely gonna have to check that out that because
I haven't seen that movie in forever.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
I saw it once and it scared me as a kid,
and it ever again, so.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
I remember this for Lloyd's character is awful.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
I believe it. I believe it. Green continued to tour
and perform up until her death at the age of
thirty five from pneumonia.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah. Then we have sister Rosetta Tharp and yes, the
list could be so much bigger, but we had to
talk about the godmother of rock and roll. Sister Rosetta Tharp.
She was originally known as the creator of pop gospel,
and her image is a powerhouse for guitarists, which still
electrifies many who watch her performance. I see clips of

(25:00):
her performing in front of the choir all the time,
and so many replications of what the US used to be.
It literally is like, look how amazing the music is.
And she was one of the prime examples. And though
she's heavily associated with rock and rolling gospel, her love
and her influence in the blues world is significant. And
also she's one of the ones that was actually out

(25:21):
and queer having a relationship with a woman and like
really showing love to her girlfriend at the time. But
it was very unique to see obviously in the fifties
and all of that. But born in Cotton Plant, Arkansas,
learned and mastered the guitar at the age of six
and often seen with her mother, who was known as

(25:41):
Mother Bell, whether it was at church or later could
be seen on the street corner of preaching in Chicago.
And though she did get married, it was her and
her mother who moved to New York, where Tharp would
soon start performing as a cotton club in nineteen thirty eight,
and it was in nineteen thirty eight that Tharp recorded
her first album that included rock Me, one of her
biggest hits at the time, and her style was unique

(26:04):
and iconic, so much so she was even featured for
her rock and roll Spiritual Song and Billboard magazine at
that time. And it was in that same year she
performed her show at the Carnegie Hall for From Spirituals
to Swing Show, which was recorded and is considered one
of the first rock and roll albums. So they said,
it's very like obvious, it's not in a studio, but

(26:25):
it's still at a record recorded as one of the best,
at one of the first. And she's been one of
the biggest influences in the world of music, including influencing
artists like Chuck Berry, who even made a statement saying
his career was quote one long sister Rosetta Tharp impression,
and also influenced artists such as Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash,

(26:45):
and so many more. And she was finally inducted into
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in twenty eighteen.
It took forever, and her influence is still heavily seen
today and Minnie would still call her one of the
best guitarists to date, inclining.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Me, ooh, I love it age six.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
She mastered it at the age of six.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Wow. Mmmm, that's impress CZ.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
That's like, that's so wow wow mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Everybody on this list incredibly impressive. Now I definitely want to.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Sit down make a playlist of their songs and just
I feel like the blues really helps me get in
a creative space.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, so this is exciting. I'm excited to go check
them out.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
And as you said, Samantha, this is by no means
a definitive list.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
No, not at all.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
There's so many on here that we could have gone through,
and there's so many that I did leave out.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Don'll be upset. And I know there's so many today
that we know are influential and have been influenced by
these women. But of course, again we wanted to look
at the history and towards the beginning some of the
first names that we know, some of the styles of them,
again again crediting the fact that it was the black
community that really has given us the basis of what
we have as music, like there's no light to that,

(28:03):
Like everything that we know honestly comes back to the
fact that a black community created it and a whole
lot of white people decide to steal it, and now
we have to go back to being able to credit them,
which is kind of like critical Racoryoo what I'm still
angry about the hearings right now?

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, wow, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Well, if there's someone you think we should cover that
we didn't, or if you want us to go more
in depth on anybody that we talked about here, or
any other topic suggestion you have on your mind, you
can always contact us. We love hearing from you our
emails Stephanie and mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You
can find us on Twitter at moms Stuff podcast or
on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Thanks. It's always to our super producer, Christina. Thank you, Christina,
and thanks to.

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You for listening Stuff I Never Told You the protection
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