June 22, 2026 • 14 mins
In a follow-up to our recent episode about the conservative fear-mongering around gay behavior in animals, we read some notes from listeners about the topic in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny Anne Smitha and welcome to stuff
Never Told your reflection by her Radio And in our
continuation of Pride Month classics, we're bringing back in episode
we did it was a happy Hour that was in
(00:26):
response to one I had done about how conservative news
was doing all these like very intense.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Reports about boh the animals, look at what they're doing.
See being gay is wrong. But a listener wrote in
and said, you know you you made this point that
they made, but there's also the exact opposite point other
people make, which is that you know they're very basically
(01:00):
using whatever piece of this argument in whatever way they want.
Either it's natural in the animal kingdom or it's not
natural in the animal kingdom. And I just I'm really
grateful for this listener for writing in because I have
also heard this too. But yes, this has been on
my mind just because during Pride Month sometimes you can't
(01:23):
escape these kinds of things, right, So please enjoy this
class episode. Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome
to stuff I Never told your prediction of my Heart
radio and welcome to another edition of Happy Hour. As
(01:54):
I always drink responsibly if you choose to do so.
Are you sitting on anything.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Smatha water, I keep myself had rated.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I have something on warm beer, warm beer.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
We are.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Unfortunately, we weren't able Samantha and I to work out
our vacation dates at the same time. So it's been
a bit of a scramble covering the content. So this
one is going to be kind of a shorter one.
I think. Who knows I did want to start it.
(02:31):
This one's a bit all over the places. It's stuff
that I cut from my previous Happy Hour on gay
animals because that episode was going a bit longer I
didn't get to and because Pride Month is coming to
a close, I thought I would talk about it. But
speaking of gay animals, I did want to mention some
(02:56):
thoughts some people wrote in about that one. Yeah, so
first of all, Michelle reminded me I totally forgot about this.
So if you haven't listened to that episode, I was
mostly I was lamenting the facts that this documentary came out,
which I still haven't seen. But it was about like
(03:17):
gay behavior in the animal kingdom, and I was talking
about I had experienced that the backlash that came from
conservatives about that documentary of that's not natural. Animals don't
do that a lot, and so I was sort of
lamenting that, and I was talking about, I don't think
(03:37):
we should compare. That shouldn't be like our benchmark, right,
But I said at the end, it's not that I
don't I'm not interested in that because I'm a huge
dork and I love nature and I love animals. So
I was like, hey, please send in if you've got
like your favorite behavior in the animal kingdom. So Michelle
(04:03):
reminded me there is the book and Tango Mixtre. It's
a children's book. It's illustrated, and it's about the two
male penguins that came together and raised a young penguin together.
If I'm remember correctly, this happened like in New York Zoo.
(04:23):
But it was like based on the like real thing
that happened. But here's the note from Michelle. You asked
for our favorite gay activities among animals. I've come across
more than one story about pairs of male penguins raising
children together. It's super sweet. And if the conservatives want
to use animal activity to decide what should be done,
(04:44):
here's proof that two men can raise a child together.
And unfortunately, I love that you brought this up, but
unfortunately this is one of the most banned books, of course,
but that was really interesting in contrast with a message
we got from Lina who brought up this point that
(05:06):
I actually hadn't really heard. But when Lina sent it
to us, I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.
Lina wrote, I had a biology cost an undergrad wherein
we looked at how physical anatomy influenced different animals mating practices.
So having some awareness of how the animal kingdom behaves
when it's getting it's frisky on seems really unsettling to
(05:28):
me too. I've also heard a different take on human sexuality,
focusing on same sex attracting and sexual behaviors. That's just
as weirdly homophobic. I've heard some religious folks make the
argument that because same sex behavior happens in the animal world,
that humans shouldn't emulate it, because God put us in
(05:48):
charge of all the animals, and since we are above
them and the eyes of God, we can't possibly be
gay because of that. It's all very bend over backwards
to uphold the bigotry. I had never heard that, But
when you say that, that makes complete sense. To me
that people use that argument, and it is fascinating how
(06:13):
as you say, clearly either way, it's unnatural in the
animal kingdom, so you shouldn't do it, or it's unnatural
because animals do it, so you shouldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And I'm definitely hearded as like, you're not an animal,
don't do that, you're not in the you know, like
all these things. So how does it? And it has
typically come from a conservative side of that as well,
So you're like.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, and like I said, I know all of us
have experienced this, but sort of the the way that
the argument is articulated around, men are just inherently biologically
sexual beings, right, And so that to me sounds like
(07:01):
you're saying they're animal like they're saying they're animalistic and
they're instinctual, so that would imply, okay, then we aren't
above animals, right, But then you're also saying like it
just feels that, as I said in that episode, I
can't square this. I just can't square it right because
(07:26):
it feels very It just to me feels that whole
boys will be boys, they're not in control. Feels like
you're talking about not a human, right, This goes.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Back to what we've talked about many times where they're
like women can't lead. Yeah, just both like the scenario
because they're not manly enough, because you know, men are
leaders and they're in control and women are emotional. But
then you're like all these other things like but you
excuse men and also make them seem really really ignorant
and naive, like they can't raise children, they can't be
(08:13):
alone with children type of conversations, or they shouldn't be
expected to clean anything because they're not they don't know
how to do that, like this level. But then which
one is it? And it's that same conversation of like, yeah,
but you're saying it's because of this that they shouldn't
be doing this, or it's because of that they should
be doing this. But yet you're using both like you're
straddling the fence once again, and you're kind of making
(08:36):
making this an oxymoron in itself.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point about
like the the raising of children, because in at least
like Western US society, it was very it was perceived
as it still is. We've talked about it many times,
like women do that, men I guess I should say
(09:05):
Western US, like modernized society. I don't know, because we've
talked about now audigenous people that was not the case.
But but like, yeah, they the men aren't really involved
in raising the children. They're more involved in like working
and bringing how money. So it is interesting that, Yeah,
(09:28):
you're also saying they can't do that, right.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
But they can do this other thing that's way more responsibility.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
You're like that, it's how many times have we heard
the like religious man cheats on his wife. But but
that was like temptation or his like proclivity of just
being a man. That's just what happens when so these penguins. Yeah,
(10:05):
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's so manufactured.
It's so just to keep the patriarchy in place. Whichever
story you're gonna tell, they'll spin it whichever way. Right. Yeah.
So I'm quad thanks to both of those listeners with that,
(10:26):
because I think.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
One story I know it's been around, but Keith makes
me go back to the Parks and Wreck episode, Oh
you don't know the way where she does a cute
thing has a penguin wedding. It turns out that they're
both male. Everybody gets in arms and they're like, you
are you know, promoting homosexuality and all these things, and
they're like they actually are mating and are together, and
(10:48):
then she takes into a more open city area where
they can live happily together.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Right. Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I always think, I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That sounds like we just did we just recorded an
episode on but I'm a cheerleader. That sounds like the
most absurd conversion therapy for animals.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Like good luck with that, have fun with this.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, And I do feel like there's a third thing,
which is probably the most accurate, but it's still weaponized
sometimes where it's just like yeah, I like the animal
is gonna hump you. I don't want to say about it.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
That's just a whole little conversation about dominance and my
female dog she humps like like it is what it
is a thing from either one.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean, yeah, that's just fascinating. Yeah to me, Yes,
to me, these arguments.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
It's fascinating and sad.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's really sad. It's honestly bumming me out because no,
I mean I just feel like, like I said, I
am a big I love like nature documentaries. I love
that kind of stuff. And now it's become politicized. I mean,
(12:24):
I'm sure it always was, but it feels like now
it's become this huge argument point that I have heard.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I think it's just a regurgitation because it comes back
again like all these things that you would think at
this point is like that is so outdated and already
been proven wrong. Why are we back here again? But
then we've got this new generation of adults who were
not adults at the time when it was happening, so
they would bring it back without fully taking it through.
(12:53):
So but yeah, but it is like constant, like why
are we doing this? Why are you doing this? Need
for this as unnecessary?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
It is really unnecessary. That and Tango Makes Three is
very nice book. Yeah, it's very lovely.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Cute be mm hmmm mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, listeners, thanks for both of these listeners writing in.
First of all, cheers to everybody. We love hearing from you.
If you have any more thoughts about this, I would
love to hear them, just your thoughts in general. We
didn't get to the other thing I was going to
talk about, because it's about fair of fiction. I was
just a little worried I go off the rails. Welcome back,
(13:35):
but I've got some exciting updates. So oh my gosh,
things are happening. Things I didn't know what happened. Well
in the meantime, Listeners, If you would like to contact us,
you can our emails Stephanie and mom Stuff at heeartmedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
(13:56):
Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've
Never Told You. We have a tea Boiling store, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christinior,
executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you and
thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never Told You is
a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts or my
heart Radio, you can check out the Heart Radio Apple
Podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Anny Anne Smitha and welcome to stuff
Never Told your reflection by her Radio And in our
continuation of Pride Month classics, we're bringing back in episode
we did it was a happy Hour that was in
(00:26):
response to one I had done about how conservative news
was doing all these like very intense.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Reports about boh the animals, look at what they're doing.
See being gay is wrong. But a listener wrote in
and said, you know you you made this point that
they made, but there's also the exact opposite point other
people make, which is that you know they're very basically
(01:00):
using whatever piece of this argument in whatever way they want.
Either it's natural in the animal kingdom or it's not
natural in the animal kingdom. And I just I'm really
grateful for this listener for writing in because I have
also heard this too. But yes, this has been on
my mind just because during Pride Month sometimes you can't
(01:23):
escape these kinds of things, right, So please enjoy this
class episode. Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome
to stuff I Never told your prediction of my Heart
radio and welcome to another edition of Happy Hour. As
(01:54):
I always drink responsibly if you choose to do so.
Are you sitting on anything.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Smatha water, I keep myself had rated.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I have something on warm beer, warm beer.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
We are.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Unfortunately, we weren't able Samantha and I to work out
our vacation dates at the same time. So it's been
a bit of a scramble covering the content. So this
one is going to be kind of a shorter one.
I think. Who knows I did want to start it.
(02:31):
This one's a bit all over the places. It's stuff
that I cut from my previous Happy Hour on gay
animals because that episode was going a bit longer I
didn't get to and because Pride Month is coming to
a close, I thought I would talk about it. But
speaking of gay animals, I did want to mention some
(02:56):
thoughts some people wrote in about that one. Yeah, so
first of all, Michelle reminded me I totally forgot about this.
So if you haven't listened to that episode, I was
mostly I was lamenting the facts that this documentary came out,
which I still haven't seen. But it was about like
(03:17):
gay behavior in the animal kingdom, and I was talking
about I had experienced that the backlash that came from
conservatives about that documentary of that's not natural. Animals don't
do that a lot, and so I was sort of
lamenting that, and I was talking about, I don't think
(03:37):
we should compare. That shouldn't be like our benchmark, right,
But I said at the end, it's not that I
don't I'm not interested in that because I'm a huge
dork and I love nature and I love animals. So
I was like, hey, please send in if you've got
like your favorite behavior in the animal kingdom. So Michelle
(04:03):
reminded me there is the book and Tango Mixtre. It's
a children's book. It's illustrated, and it's about the two
male penguins that came together and raised a young penguin together.
If I'm remember correctly, this happened like in New York Zoo.
(04:23):
But it was like based on the like real thing
that happened. But here's the note from Michelle. You asked
for our favorite gay activities among animals. I've come across
more than one story about pairs of male penguins raising
children together. It's super sweet. And if the conservatives want
to use animal activity to decide what should be done,
(04:44):
here's proof that two men can raise a child together.
And unfortunately, I love that you brought this up, but
unfortunately this is one of the most banned books, of course,
but that was really interesting in contrast with a message
we got from Lina who brought up this point that
(05:06):
I actually hadn't really heard. But when Lina sent it
to us, I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.
Lina wrote, I had a biology cost an undergrad wherein
we looked at how physical anatomy influenced different animals mating practices.
So having some awareness of how the animal kingdom behaves
when it's getting it's frisky on seems really unsettling to
(05:28):
me too. I've also heard a different take on human sexuality,
focusing on same sex attracting and sexual behaviors. That's just
as weirdly homophobic. I've heard some religious folks make the
argument that because same sex behavior happens in the animal world,
that humans shouldn't emulate it, because God put us in
(05:48):
charge of all the animals, and since we are above
them and the eyes of God, we can't possibly be
gay because of that. It's all very bend over backwards
to uphold the bigotry. I had never heard that, But
when you say that, that makes complete sense. To me
that people use that argument, and it is fascinating how
(06:13):
as you say, clearly either way, it's unnatural in the
animal kingdom, so you shouldn't do it, or it's unnatural
because animals do it, so you shouldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And I'm definitely hearded as like, you're not an animal,
don't do that, you're not in the you know, like
all these things. So how does it? And it has
typically come from a conservative side of that as well,
So you're like.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, and like I said, I know all of us
have experienced this, but sort of the the way that
the argument is articulated around, men are just inherently biologically
sexual beings, right, And so that to me sounds like
(07:01):
you're saying they're animal like they're saying they're animalistic and
they're instinctual, so that would imply, okay, then we aren't
above animals, right, But then you're also saying like it
just feels that, as I said in that episode, I
can't square this. I just can't square it right because
(07:26):
it feels very It just to me feels that whole
boys will be boys, they're not in control. Feels like
you're talking about not a human, right, This goes.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Back to what we've talked about many times where they're
like women can't lead. Yeah, just both like the scenario
because they're not manly enough, because you know, men are
leaders and they're in control and women are emotional. But
then you're like all these other things like but you
excuse men and also make them seem really really ignorant
and naive, like they can't raise children, they can't be
(08:13):
alone with children type of conversations, or they shouldn't be
expected to clean anything because they're not they don't know
how to do that, like this level. But then which
one is it? And it's that same conversation of like, yeah,
but you're saying it's because of this that they shouldn't
be doing this, or it's because of that they should
be doing this. But yet you're using both like you're
straddling the fence once again, and you're kind of making
(08:36):
making this an oxymoron in itself.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point about
like the the raising of children, because in at least
like Western US society, it was very it was perceived
as it still is. We've talked about it many times,
like women do that, men I guess I should say
(09:05):
Western US, like modernized society. I don't know, because we've
talked about now audigenous people that was not the case.
But but like, yeah, they the men aren't really involved
in raising the children. They're more involved in like working
and bringing how money. So it is interesting that, Yeah,
(09:28):
you're also saying they can't do that, right.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
But they can do this other thing that's way more responsibility.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
You're like that, it's how many times have we heard
the like religious man cheats on his wife. But but
that was like temptation or his like proclivity of just
being a man. That's just what happens when so these penguins. Yeah,
(10:05):
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's so manufactured.
It's so just to keep the patriarchy in place. Whichever
story you're gonna tell, they'll spin it whichever way. Right. Yeah.
So I'm quad thanks to both of those listeners with that,
(10:26):
because I think.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
One story I know it's been around, but Keith makes
me go back to the Parks and Wreck episode, Oh
you don't know the way where she does a cute
thing has a penguin wedding. It turns out that they're
both male. Everybody gets in arms and they're like, you
are you know, promoting homosexuality and all these things, and
they're like they actually are mating and are together, and
(10:48):
then she takes into a more open city area where
they can live happily together.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Right. Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I always think, I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That sounds like we just did we just recorded an
episode on but I'm a cheerleader. That sounds like the
most absurd conversion therapy for animals.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Like good luck with that, have fun with this.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, And I do feel like there's a third thing,
which is probably the most accurate, but it's still weaponized
sometimes where it's just like yeah, I like the animal
is gonna hump you. I don't want to say about it.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
That's just a whole little conversation about dominance and my
female dog she humps like like it is what it
is a thing from either one.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean, yeah, that's just fascinating. Yeah to me, Yes,
to me, these arguments.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
It's fascinating and sad.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's really sad. It's honestly bumming me out because no,
I mean I just feel like, like I said, I
am a big I love like nature documentaries. I love
that kind of stuff. And now it's become politicized. I mean,
(12:24):
I'm sure it always was, but it feels like now
it's become this huge argument point that I have heard.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I think it's just a regurgitation because it comes back
again like all these things that you would think at
this point is like that is so outdated and already
been proven wrong. Why are we back here again? But
then we've got this new generation of adults who were
not adults at the time when it was happening, so
they would bring it back without fully taking it through.
(12:53):
So but yeah, but it is like constant, like why
are we doing this? Why are you doing this? Need
for this as unnecessary?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
It is really unnecessary. That and Tango Makes Three is
very nice book. Yeah, it's very lovely.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Cute be mm hmmm mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, listeners, thanks for both of these listeners writing in.
First of all, cheers to everybody. We love hearing from you.
If you have any more thoughts about this, I would
love to hear them, just your thoughts in general. We
didn't get to the other thing I was going to
talk about, because it's about fair of fiction. I was
just a little worried I go off the rails. Welcome back,
(13:35):
but I've got some exciting updates. So oh my gosh,
things are happening. Things I didn't know what happened. Well
in the meantime, Listeners, If you would like to contact us,
you can our emails Stephanie and mom Stuff at heeartmedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
(13:56):
Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've
Never Told You. We have a tea Boiling store, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christinior,
executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you and
thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never Told You is
a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts or my
heart Radio, you can check out the Heart Radio Apple
Podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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