August 22, 2026 • 41 mins
We're back with another spoiler filled Spoiled Saturday with Across the Spider-Verse! You might say it's a canon event. In this classic, we travel the multiverse delving into the discussions happening around Gwen Stacy and queer and trans representation, toxic fandom, animation, and Easter Eggs.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samitta. I'm welcome to stuff
I never told you productive iHeart radio, and today we
are bringing back a favorite of mine, a Spoiled Saturdays
on across the Spider Verse. People know I love it.
(00:28):
I just oh, my gosh. When I was on Movie
Crush back when that was a podcast Spider Verse, the
first one was my pick. That was the one I
went for. And sometimes I get nostalgic for that. Do
you ever have a topic that you talk about, and
this is one for me that I just knew so
much about that. Chuck would ask me questions and I
just knew. I was like, oh, the Kirby crack hole. Yeah,
(00:50):
this is what it is. I know what it is.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, yes, I love when I'm so prepared. I'm like,
you can't tell me nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Let us. It's so nice. And it was really nice
because a lot of listeners were resonated with it. I
love when that happens. There's a couple of reasons this
is on my mind to bring back. Obviously the New
Spider Man movies and theaters. I haven't seen it yet,
which is wild.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I can't believe you haven't seen it.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Have you gotten spoiled though, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I actually don't think I've gotten fully spoiled, but I've
gotten like some key things that they were trying to
keep hidden spot.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
And you better go see it soon, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I'm I think I'm in a like spat with the
person I normally go with that I don't know about this,
but I think that he's like not inviting me because
he's mad at me. But that's that's something I figure
out on my own. But also this is on my
(01:49):
mind because I recently watched Project Tell Mary and I
did the same people Phil Lord and Christopher Miller did
that I was when I was watching it, I was like,
this has similar kind of visual cues, and I'm sure enough,
there you go. Also, this movie, we talk about it
(02:11):
in this episode a little bit, but these movies take
a lot to animate, and they take a lot of time.
And there's been kind of a growing conversation from people,
especially at Sony I think, who are saying like, this
is not sustainable, this is like overwork, and so that
I believe the deadline for the next movie has been
(02:35):
pushed back. But they just released character posters.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yes, so exciting This is the time.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Of year when you know it's Comic Con, as dagon Con,
all these things are coming out to get you excited
as a fan of stuff. So I'm excited. It's as
you should be, as you should be, so please enjoy
this classic episode. Hey, this is Anny. I'm welcome to
(03:06):
Steffan Never Told You production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to
another edition of Spoiled Saturdays.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, but we've only.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Done one of these. It's been a minute since we've
done two. Okay, we've definitely done something that was like
in the realm of Spoiled Saturdays. I don't know if
we'd called it that yet. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited.
But yes, as the titles suggest, spoilers, massive spoilers, everything spoiled.
(03:45):
So if you don't want to be spoiled on the
new Spider Verse movie, go.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Away, come back, go live alone, people.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Come on, Yeah, come on. As I was doing this,
I realized we never did the first one. We kind
of talked about it in and uh we No, we
never did it. We talked about it briefly in our
superhero themed holiday feminist movies around the world, where we
did like Batman and Iron Man three Expider first.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Oh yeah, I know, because we need to come back
to it, then we should.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I have so many thoughts on that. As I was
doing this, I had such a glorious moment of it's
so nice when you just know something so well that
I'm just writing from the heart. I don't have to.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
When we were talking about doing it, I was like,
this is gonna be an easy one for you.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Just go for it.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
The hard part was condensing it, to be honest, but
I tried my best.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yes, which listeners, he does have a little little warning
side note, keep it brief us.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
In July Annie to myself, I wrote it in there,
don't do it and speaking of because I wanted to
go into all these tangents about like the animation and
the technology involved.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's not really this podcast, but I did do that
on Movie Crush when I did an episode on the
first one where I really went in. So if you
want to listen to that, I would recommend it. It's
very nerdy. I'm talking about like the Kirby dots and
the Kirby crackle and all this stuff. That's great, but
to say like new technologies have been invented to make
(05:25):
these movies. They have an R and D department to
make these movies, so really cool stuff. This one has
been very successful. It has very been very critically acclaimed.
It made more money and it's opening weeks than the
first one did all together, so it's doing well. And yes,
as Samantha I were discussing right before, there are two
(05:46):
different versions of this movie in theaters. Essentially what happened
was there was kind of a complaint about some of
the audios, so they fixed some of the audio, and
then there's about twenty very small differences in between the
two of them. So that's just if you want to
look it up, there's some guidelines of the differences, so
you can be like, oh, here we go, that's the
(06:07):
version I watch. Yes, so I'm gonna do a rundown
of this plot because it's kind of it's a lot,
and I feel like i'll just it'll be easier if
I just go to just go, just go, Okay. So,
Spider Man Across the Spider Verse is the twenty twenty
three sequel of the critically acclaimed twenty eighteen Spider Man
(06:31):
Into the Spider Verse, both written and produced by Phil
Lord and Christopher Miller. Both of these films are unique
in their animation styles. They have two D, they have
three D, they have stop motion, different frame rates, bright colors,
and just a lot of different stylistic animations like noir, anime,
punk and colors that make them very, very beautiful. It
(06:53):
is like watching a living comic book. So in the
first movie, which yes, I will keep this brief, Miles
uner Alis discovers a multiverse of alternate universes and their
respective Spider People and not even people always with their help,
he learns to accept his role as Spider Man after
the death of Peter Parker in his universe, along the
(07:14):
way learning his uncle Aaron is the Prowler who is
a villain, and he gets killed by Kingpinn while also
strengthening his relationship with his father, who is a police officer.
All of the other Spider People are returned to their
own universes. The second one picks up pretty much right
where that one ended, though it starts with Spider Woman
(07:36):
slash Gwynn Stacy's POV and going a bit more in
depth into her backstory of how she Spider Woman, was
blamed for the death of her best friend and only friend,
Peter Parker, something that has made her really closed off
and has driven a wedge in her relationship with her
police chief father, who is determined to catch Spider Woman
(07:58):
and bring her to justice, not knowing it's Gwynn and
kind of not understanding why Gwinn doesn't want him to
do it. After the events of the first film, she
missus Miles, who is the first friend she'd made after
the death of Peter. While investigating a disturbance, she sees
the sort of Italian Renaissance version of the Vulture. And
(08:19):
by the way, the song on the soundtrack is called
Vulture gets Culture because it happens out of museum and
I love it anyway, he's glitching, indicating that he is
from another universe. They fight, and soon Miguel O'Hara slash
Spider Man twenty ninety nine shows up from his universe
(08:39):
to aid her, and he was introduced as an Easter
Egg in the end credits of the first one. Actually,
he also shows up with another Spider Woman, Jess Drew,
and together they are able to subdue Vulture. Gwinn reveals
her true identity to her father and he tries to
arrest her, hurt Gwyn and accepts Miguel's very reluctant offer
(09:02):
to join the Spider Society and escapes into a portal
with him and Jess. So basically, he's implying he's having
to grow and clean up their mess that they created
by trying to fix this Collider multiverse problem, and he's
not happy about it, and he doesn't want her in
the society, but Jess is like, no, no, I think
we should have her in. Meanwhile, Miles is struggling to
(09:25):
balance his responsibilities as Spider Man with those of his
family and academic life as it comes time for college applications,
especially when his family doesn't want him to leave Brooklyn.
He also imagines telling them about his identity as Spider
Man that he holds himself back, even as his parents
suspect he is lying to them, and he misses Gwyn too.
(09:46):
He also does not have much in the way of friends,
so he keeps mentioning these friends like Quinn, and his
parents are like, why haven't we never met Quinn and
he's like, oh, well. He encounters what he calls a
bad guy the week called the Spot. I'm just going
to call him Spot throughout this, but it's the Spot
who after the accident with all the alternate universes at
(10:09):
the company he worked for, alchem X from the first one.
He has these interdimensional spots and portals on his body.
He blames Miles for what happened to him and reveals
that he transported the spider that bit Miles from another
dimension Earth forty two. Spot learns how to travel through
universes using his spots and decides to increase his power
(10:30):
to become more than a bad guy of the Week.
Gwinn and Miles reunite and he follows her and learns
she's been tracking Spot through dimensions. Just tells Gwen to
leave Miles behind, but Miles jumps in the portal after
Gwen taking them to Mumbatan on Earth fifty one oh one,
Mumbatan being Mumbai in Manhattan mixed together. They join forces
(10:54):
with that universe as Spider Man, Paveteer Prabakar and Hobie
Brown Spider Punk as you might know him, to take
on Spot, who is draining that universe's collider to increase
his power. Spot escapes, but he leaves Miles with this
vision of the death of his father Jeff, who had
just been promoted to police captain. While Pavteer is saving
(11:19):
his girlfriend, he sees her father, the police captain, in danger,
but is unable to get to him in time without
dropping his girlfriend, so Miles saves him instead. But Mumbaton
starts to collapse because Miles has disrupted a quote cannon event.
While some Spider People come to do damage control, Gwynn,
(11:39):
Hoby and Miles go to the Society's headquarters on Miguel's world,
Earth nine two eight, and it's this huge complex with
hundreds of Spider people. Okay, so brief aside. I know
I probably don't have to explain this because I've talked
about it a million times on here, but cannon is
something that is produced when accepted authentic author and in
(12:02):
something like Marvel, it's even more than that. It is
the current accepted properties storylines, works that are accepted as
the quote real ongoing story as decided by whoever owns
the property. In this case, it would be Marvel slash Disney,
i e. Anything not canon would be something like Legends,
(12:23):
which is what it's called in Star Wars, and no
longer has any impact on the current canon, though a
lot of crossover can be had there, which is very confusing,
very very confusing. There is also head canon, which is
like your own personal idea of what happened and you
keep it to yourself, but that's just in your head,
(12:45):
that's how it went. And then there's fanin, which is
like when a bunch of head canons come together and
make fanin. And that can be confusing because you think
you hear it all the time because fans believe it.
You think that it's canon, but it's fanin.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That's a whole TikTok trend. Now I know, to make mistakes.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
It's essentially I think when people make mistakes or do
something that's so common, but it's like they're gonna.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Have to learn for themselves. It's just cannon. It took
me a long time to be like what, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Kept seeing headlines about it. I assumed it was something
like very silly, like this is my canon event and
you stebbed a toe or something, But I know, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
It's essentially like every person, every fandom or every group
of like growing into this age or doing this. I
guess it could be like when I say my niece
is gonna come to Atlanta. She'll learn for herself and
then become more liberated. I guess in that way liberal.
Uh huh, that's like that's canon that way interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
All right, well, listeners, let me know, because I yeah,
I was.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I think that's what I assumed. Well, that's what it seems.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You can have a lot of fun with it, I'll
say that. So in this case of the movie, a
cannon event would be something that has to happen, yes,
because it is cannon. So Miles is reunited with his mentor,
Peter B. Parker, and introduced to his daughter may Day
or May, who Peter had in part because he wanted
(14:15):
to raise a child like Miles. Miguel informs Miles that
every Spider Man has a cannon event that cannot be
changed without wrecking reality, usually the death of a loved one.
After a tragedy in his own universe, Miguel attempted to
replace another version of himself who is happy, but it
led to that universe to collapse, and he did care
(14:36):
about that version of his family, but they all kind
of got wiped out. Miles realizes that his cannon event
is coming in two days, the murder of his father
by spot. He tries to escape to change it, but
Miguel imprisons him. Later, Hoby helps break him out before
jumping away in a portal, quitting the society. He's a
(14:57):
very like fight the System, Fight the Man. I'm done
and they have these handy dandy wristband portal jumping things,
which is the gizmo from the end credits of the
first one. Miguel orders all Spider People to stop Miles,
resulting in a hectic chase where he tells Miles that
(15:19):
he is a mistake, that without him his realities Peter
Parker would still be alive, and that Spider was never
supposed to bite him and the reality the Spider came
from doesn't have a Spider Man. So Miles manages to
get back to the Quote Get Home Machine with the
help of Spider Bite also known as Margo, and this
(15:43):
is a machine that uses DNA to send people to
their home dimension. He returns to his home dimension after
realizing that Gwenn and Peter b knew about all of this,
and he feels very betrayed by that. He reveals that
he is Spider Man to his mom, but she doesn't
know who he's talking about, and then Uncle Aaron arrives
(16:03):
and Miles realizes he is in the wrong reality. The
reality of the Spider that bit him was from this reality,
and it is the one that has no Spider Man,
so you can see chaos outside. Aaron surprise attacks Miles,
and when Miles wakes up, he's tied to a punching bag,
which by the ways of running joke about Spider Man
being a punching bag, and he learns in this universe
(16:25):
Aaron isn't the Prowler Miles is. Meanwhile, Miguel kicks Gwynn
out of the Spider Society and she returns to her
universe to learn that her father quit his job. They
reconcile and he gives her the Portal watch thing I'm
sure there's official name, but you know that Hobie left
for her. She uses it to go to Miles's universe
(16:48):
intending to help him, only to learn he's not there.
A team from the Society are there too, Miguel and
Jess and Scarlet Spider who's like the really angsty emo
Spider Man Gwenn and it puts together a team to
help Miles, including Peter b Spider Noir, Spider Ham, Pabbeteer, Hobie, Margo,
and may Day. And that's how it ends. Cliffhanger. So
(17:22):
in this alternate universe, his dad Miles, his dad is
dead and Aaron has survived. But that brings me to
one of the things that of course kept popping up
in my feed. The creators have said this is their
version of the Empire strikes Back. It has the vision
of losing a loved one, but it's inverted because it's
so it's sort of like the reveal at the end
(17:43):
is that, oh, I'm the villain and oh my dad
is dead. Instead of Empire strikes Back, the reveal is, oh,
my dad's the villain and he's a wife. Oh yeah.
But it has a bunch of like if again, if
I was left to my d brothers, as the cool
people say, I would just go into the and talk
about hilarities. And the difference is, but one person pointed out,
(18:08):
is actually more like Matrix Reloaded, because you get to
the end of Matrix Reloaded and you realize, like this
whole time, you thought you were fighting to do the
right thing and do good, and there's this whole system
in place that is keeping you from changing anything. So
I thought that was interesting. There's also a big a
I don't know if it's theory is the right word,
(18:29):
but a lot of people have pointed out that in
the first one, when Miles and Spider Man first interact,
Spider Man has like the red blue like spider tingle
things happening, and Miles has purple and green and they
kind of have like this headache moment. And some people
have said he was supposed to be that world's Prowler
(18:52):
because of the Spider from the other universe. Things went
to differently, like.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
When a Gleren dies, he becomes the new Prowler. Is
that what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It's supposed to be. Yeah, like he was because he
loved to sell Claren. Yeah, I was following in his footsteps,
really wanted to do it. They haven't. I don't think
the creators have said if they meant to do it
or not, but it feels very They don't usually put
anything in these movies without it meaning something, so which
(19:23):
leads us too the discussion. One of the big things
people have talked about is whether or not there's a
trans character in this movie, and so the reason people
are talking about that is because quote the film subtly
integrates additional affirmation for the transgender community, and Spider Gwynn,
(19:46):
voiced by Hailey Steinfeld, prominently displaying pink and blue hues
symbolic of the transgender flag, while her father's police uniform
briefly reveals a badge adorned with the trans flag. And
so in Gwenn's world, it's very it's why color based.
The colors are representative of her emotions and how she
feels at that moment, and most often they are the
(20:10):
colors of the trans flag, and the artists clearly know
what those colors are if they have a trans flag
featured in two different instances in her world. So the
art styles in these movies are very specific to each
character and they are meant to communicate something about that character.
Here's a quote from one of the creators about the
(20:30):
futuristic slash blade runner style that they use for Miguel's world,
and you can see the lines on Miguel, like the
pencil is unfinished. It's kind of a cruel joke on Miguel,
who's essentially asserting that the future is written. But the
image is constantly undermining his argument and saying, in fact,
the future is not completely fleshed out. And here's a
(20:50):
quote from vox. Devotees have pointed out that the Spider
Woman is literally Eg has a trans flag in her room,
and symbolically EG experiences the allegory of coming out depicted
as a trans ally, if not trans herself. Gwen's possible
transness and even her allyship is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So from fan the green Casey quote, trans and even
SYS fans have every right to say Gwen Stacy is trans.
Even if the movies never outright confirment, we can't deny
that it's been hinted at. The fact is, if she
can make somebody feel represented, who are you to tell
them they're wrong. Fans also noticed that Gwenn's father, policeman
(21:31):
George Stacy, has a transgender flag that he wears on
his uniform. That's notable for a couple of reasons. One
of those is that in the real world, trans activists
have said that trans people, especially black transgender people, often
face discrimination from law enforcement. Said discrimination is a huge
reason why trans people don't feel comfortable asking police for help.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yes, and you see him wearing the flag after he
accepts her identity a spider woman and believes her because
she's continually telling him this and he doesn't leave her,
indicating that he is an ally and some speculate that
he would only be an ally in the context of
Gwenn's potential of being trans if he had a trans
family member. Then it made me happy because the Mark
(22:18):
Hamill gift is going around again of when he says,
if you believe Luke Skywalker is gay, he's gay. Yes,
But that brings us to the question why not do
it out right? Countries censor LGBTQ plus content and studios
know it, and they are studios are primarily profit driven. Again,
(22:39):
they are not allies. That's what we talked about in
our recent episode about what's happening and a bunch of
a bunch of these companies in the US, even with
this small mention, like I didn't even notice it the
first time this movie has been banned in two countries,
and yeah, that's what we talked about. With what's going
on with Target bud Light facing backlash. It's not an
(23:00):
excuse at all, but that is what they're thinking. And
I will note the creators have kind of flat out
said that the Studio metals, they're kind of big sneaky
about it, but basically they were fired from solo. Oh.
I don't know if you know that, but anyway, they were,
(23:21):
and they have said about that. I always remember the
original trilogy were independent movies. Yeah, something else before we
move on from Gwen Stacy. Gwinn Stacy, it's kind of
infamous for an example of fridging. It's not just that,
(23:43):
but in Spider Man to the Amazing Spider Man two
there's that kind of like slow mow fall that she has.
But that's based on the night Gwen Stacy died, which
is this very well known comic and when it came out,
people were shocked and Marvel received death threats because she
(24:04):
was a popular character. People loved her and she died
because it was implied, it was very dark. It was
a like stark turn for their normal storytelling because the
implication was maybe he had killed her from the whiplash
of catching her and that's how she died. But it
(24:24):
started this whole thing called Gwen Stacy syndrome because because
that was it was such a popular plotline. Even though
people were pissed about it and they were heard about
it. It became like this iconic scene, and in every Spider
Man movie, I'm pretty sure literally every Spider Man movie,
there's some kind of reference of like somebody following and
(24:48):
you catch them with the web. It became known as
Gwen Stacy syndrome, and it was kind of the start
of like, it's just not a safe to date be
a woman dating Spider Man. It doesn't matter if you're
just like a one off or like you've been dating
for a while, like you are not safe. So it's
this whole thing. I would love to come back and
(25:09):
talk about that more. And in this movie, Gwen Stacy
says in every other universe, Gwen Stacy falls for Spider Man,
which kind of implies like love, but it also implies, yeah,
a literal fall. Yes. But let us move on for
now to canon events and problems with fandom and cannon.
(25:30):
We've talked about toxic fandom at length, but that's kind
of what's going on here. From the Verge. Here's a quote.
It's an insidious, pernicious and this is especially important racist
idea that has thrived in segments of the Spider Man
fandom ever since Miles first appeared in Marvel's comics, and
the way across the Spider Verse subverts it to deepen
Miles's lore is one of the movie's most spectacular feats.
(25:54):
So they were saying the real villain is not Miguel
or the spot, it is this toxic fandom. When Miles,
who is a teen of black and Puerto Rican descent,
was introduced in twenty eleven, there was a huge backlash
as sort of like not my Spider Man thing that
was definitely soaked in racism going on, and this overall
(26:16):
idea that he wasn't as good as Peter Parker, that
he was not really Spider Man, which is at the
heart of the whole film of Miles being told he's
a mistake. If you weren't here, your universe of Spider
Man would still be here. You're not supposed to be here,
that he's the quote original anomaly that started this whole thing,
(26:36):
and Miles saying I'm going to do things my own way.
We don't have time to get into this. But also
when Miles was first introduced, he was not given a
lot of depth. That is not to excuse any racist
attacks at all, but it did improve like but that
says something too of people say like, well, you gave
(26:57):
Peter Parker so much attention in time and depth, and
then you and produce this character and really didn't do it.
But these movies have and games, the games too have
really given like fleshed out his character a lot more.
There's the idea I saw a quote from one of
the creators involved of like encountering this anger from fans,
(27:18):
so that has to be the same story over and over,
and if you deviate from that in any way, just
anger about it. And so on the movie, it's Miles
tampering with Cannon that makes Miguel angry, not the dimension
jumping villain that is like what really upsets him. And
then Canon getting to dictate who gets to be Spider
(27:41):
Man when the message at the heart of these movies
is that anyone can be Spider Man. I also think
there's a moment of that's like examining bad Allyship at
the end with Gwenn and Peter b choosing to protect
the status quo over him, like, didn't they didn't tell
him anything about it. They were willing to like just
(28:02):
go ahead with this, and then realizing that they were wrong,
and then you do have. People loved it, but Hobie's
whole fight the power vibe, this is wrong, we shouldn't
be doing it. It is also a coming of age
story for sure, realizing that things weren't what you thought
(28:23):
that they were, and identity growing up as a superhero,
for sure. According it to Box's alex Abod Santos, who
I have We've been quoting throughout across the Spider Verse
centralizes queer and trans imagery, symbolism, and allegories while creating
a Spider Man whose narrative identity operates with a lot
(28:44):
of components of a coming out story. So that's actually
from movie Web about the Vox article that we have.
But yeah, like the whole idea of the fear of
telling your guardians, of being told you don't belong, his
mother's message of never let anyone tell you you don't
belong fits into all of this.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, And the quote goes on Rio's worries about her
son mirror so many fears that parents of LGBTQ children have,
mainly that family acceptance is the easy part, and it's
that not being able to protect them from the world
that they live in is much more difficult. She knows
he has a secret and she'll love him no matter what,
but she also knows that not everyone will accept her
(29:25):
son as much as she does.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And yeah, that's from the box article.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yes, yeah, And there are a lot of articles about
this about kind of the how queer people connect to
that idea of you have to hire this part of
yourself and being afraid to share it. So that's really interesting.
I think that's one of the reasons it resonates for
so many people too. Well, we have to talk about
the animation a little bit. We want to rain myself in.
(29:50):
But I would say, literally every frame, pause it it's
our I did it with the first one. It's really fun.
There's so much going on. I remember a lot of
people were saying, oh, I'm so overstimulated after seeing it.
And I saw it before. You and I went together
right on my second time, but my first time, I
was in the front row and I was like all
(30:13):
the way back like a played interurbulence.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, I mean both of them.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I was like, I because I saw have bad vision anyway,
and then my contacts often get blurry, but but the
way it sets up, I adjusted my contacts a lot
realizing Oh no, that's just that's just the.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Way it is. It's my vision as I typically think.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
It is a lot like oh god, blinking, so many blinkings.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, but it is really cool, like all the different
styles and frame rates and how they interact. And it
is also, I will say, the longest ever animated film
produced by an American studio. And it is part it's
essentially part one of two. I mean, it's a trilogy,
but I really feel like this one and the next
one are like a two parter. They said they tried
to put it all on one movie, but it just
(31:02):
was not happening. A fourteen year old did get hired
to animate the Lego scene. The creators saw it on YouTube,
did not realize it was fourteen year old. They were
so impressed. They were like, all right.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
They have a major motion picture under their resume at fourteen,
Like they are, They're done, They're ready, like they make
these movies.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yes. Yes. There have been some articles coming out lately,
which is especially interesting because we're still in the midst
of the writer's strike, about some animators saying that this
was not sustainable, they can't keep working like this. In
the words of this person. The next movie, which is
supposed to come out in March, might not come out
(31:46):
in twenty twenty four at all because it is so much,
and several of the animators quit. One called it death
by a thousand paper cuts because of the lack of
understanding by Lord, especially in this article. It was a
variety article about how three D animation works and late revisions,
so essentially like, at a certain point you want to
(32:09):
be I can't just revise this at the end. It
has to happen a lot in the beginning. But it
was kind of the opposite of that, and apparently he
needed to get every sequence approved. But it was interesting
because they were talking about what they're talking about with
the writers strike right now, and what we've talked about
(32:30):
and industries like this and like that, because they were saying,
you know you do you want to work on something
that you love and they know that. And also if
you leave as an artist and someone else takes over
than your name, it's not yours anymore, especially if they
fix it at the end that revision. So they were
talking about like maybe we need to do something with
(32:53):
the union or something like that, So we'll see how
that plays out there is also to add more work
onto them. A woman led spinoff called Spider Woman in
the Mix. I don't know much about that yet. I
don't think they've really said much about it. And then
a lot of articles have also come out, and I've
(33:16):
made the argument that the success of these films shows
that people do want to see more diverse representation, that
it is more representative of all of us. Here's a
quote from NPR and North America. Exit tracking found that
the audience was about one third Latino and another third
Black and Asian. Diversity percentage is far higher than for
most superhero films. And like, going back to the trans
(33:40):
the possibility of a trans character, Like so many people
were talking about that, and it's one of those things
like I'm really happy that's in there. That's a flag
that says protect trans kids in Enguin's room, but it's
also so frustrating that it's like those little scraps for
your like, ah representation. I mean, I'm super thrilled it's
in there, but it's also like we could get more.
(34:03):
We could get more. And then because I have been
really good and I haven't gone too long, We're gonna
have a fun bit at the bottom, okay, which is
just some of my random Easter eggs.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
All right, okay, so just behind the curtain here I
saw the outro. I thought it was the end. There's
a whole full other page.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, because I didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I was gonna cut it if we went too long.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
But we did, okay, So it was a surprise. This
whole recording has surprise.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
I'm just I like to keep you on your toes.
You I like you do. You're good. So a couple
of random Easter eggs. There is a I believe it's
a billboard that says all of it always all over
the place, and it's a bagel place, which is everything
everywhere all at once. For a love, there's a venom bit.
(35:08):
I love that Donald Gover does show it.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Donald Glover.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, there's a lot of there's a couple, not a
lot of folks at Marvel's as in the MCUs, because
soon this will be Marvel as well. Spider Man like
Doctor Strange.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
And to.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yes, but I really want to go through a very
fun list. This is so minuscule. So Polygon has this
article where they identified like pretty much all of the
Spider people, and some of them are so funny. But
please look up the article. I was cackling reading it,
(35:49):
and I can't believe this is all real. But it
is so. All these quotes are from them. But I thought, Samantha,
you and I could go back and forth with a
few of my favorite ones. Okay, let's start with jess Drew,
a quote created in nineteen seventy six in a rush
to stop an animation studio from grabbing the trademark to
the Spider Woman name. Comic book. Jessica actually has no
(36:11):
real relation to either Peter Parker or Miles Morales, having
instead acquired her powers in a bewilderingly arcane origin involving hydra,
her geneticist father, and possibly a talking cow. Spider versus
Chess is thus a wholesale reinvention of the concept, though comics,
Chess did famously have a book in which she did
superhero stuff while pregnant, which she did in the movie Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Hobby Brown, He was fun.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Hoby won the affection of fans by siding with people
against their corporate oppressors, leading the downtrodden masses against the establishment,
and breaking his guitar over the head of the United
States President. I like it.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Also, he's very English punk.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
In the in the it's.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Like magazine cut out santamation.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
So good.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
It's so good, bombastic bag man. Peter Parker learned to
his horror that the black costume he had been wearing
was actually a symbiote alien from another planet. That left
him briefly without any costume to wear around town, but
longtime phrenemy Johnny Human Torch Storm lint to hand, giving
Parker one of his own extra suits, a paper lunch
(37:20):
bag to put over his face, and a kick me
sign surreptitiously taped to his back for good measure. Oh
my gosh, I can't believe this is real.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Spider Cat, which, yeah, you said spider people earlier.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
There are a lot, a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
He is a spider man and also a cat, the
typical coutterie of gamers from Earth nine nine to nine.
Spider Cat gained his powers through an encounter with one
of the mystical Spider Totems in an untold tale that
presumably makes as much sense as any other story involving
the mystical Spider Totems.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's the thing. It's a thing.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I spider Verse. But wow, okay, yes, listen to this one,
Teeter Tarker. Spider Rex is just because it's heterodactyl, so
maybe yeah, yeah, but it is spelled everybody p T
(38:23):
e t R p t A r k e R.
But anyway, spider Rex a resident of the prehistoric world
of Earth sixty six Wildfowler t Rex Peter Darker had
a chance encounter with a spider filled meteorite, granting him
wondrous spider like powers. In an early battle against his
(38:44):
nemesis Nerana Soorman Uh, Tarker accidentally allowed a tree branch
to take the life of the villain, teaching him an
important lesson about responsibility. So good.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
And then we have the Peter Parked car, which is
an anthropomorphic talking car Spider Man.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
These are all in the movie movies.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, so all of those work quotes from that Polygon
article that's kind of just tracking all of the Easter
eggs in there, so please please go read it. I
was laughing so hard, but you can feel kind of
the it shines through that the fans are making these
and they're putting in all of these things. I love it.
(39:36):
I love it can't wait to go again. Yes, wow,
this was fun. I'm excited about doing another Spoiled Saturdays,
So if you have suggestions for that, please let us know.
You can email us That Stuff India mom Stuff at
iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter I'm
mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
(39:56):
I Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We have
a tea public store. We have a book. You can
pre order it. It is coming out August twenty ninth.
You can pre order it at stuff you Should read
Books dot com. We also you can pre order it
on Audible. Thanks a zawis to our super producer Christina,
our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you
(40:17):
Hope I didn't spell everything for you, and thanks to
you Oh no Yeah. Stuff on up Adults Productions. iHeartRadio
for more podcasts, or my heart Radio. You can check
out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or regular
listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Anny and Samitta. I'm welcome to stuff
I never told you productive iHeart radio, and today we
are bringing back a favorite of mine, a Spoiled Saturdays
on across the Spider Verse. People know I love it.
(00:28):
I just oh, my gosh. When I was on Movie
Crush back when that was a podcast Spider Verse, the
first one was my pick. That was the one I
went for. And sometimes I get nostalgic for that. Do
you ever have a topic that you talk about, and
this is one for me that I just knew so
much about that. Chuck would ask me questions and I
just knew. I was like, oh, the Kirby crack hole. Yeah,
(00:50):
this is what it is. I know what it is.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, yes, I love when I'm so prepared. I'm like,
you can't tell me nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Let us. It's so nice. And it was really nice
because a lot of listeners were resonated with it. I
love when that happens. There's a couple of reasons this
is on my mind to bring back. Obviously the New
Spider Man movies and theaters. I haven't seen it yet,
which is wild.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I can't believe you haven't seen it.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Have you gotten spoiled though, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I actually don't think I've gotten fully spoiled, but I've
gotten like some key things that they were trying to
keep hidden spot.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
And you better go see it soon, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I'm I think I'm in a like spat with the
person I normally go with that I don't know about this,
but I think that he's like not inviting me because
he's mad at me. But that's that's something I figure
out on my own. But also this is on my
(01:49):
mind because I recently watched Project Tell Mary and I
did the same people Phil Lord and Christopher Miller did
that I was when I was watching it, I was like,
this has similar kind of visual cues, and I'm sure enough,
there you go. Also, this movie, we talk about it
(02:11):
in this episode a little bit, but these movies take
a lot to animate, and they take a lot of time.
And there's been kind of a growing conversation from people,
especially at Sony I think, who are saying like, this
is not sustainable, this is like overwork, and so that
I believe the deadline for the next movie has been
(02:35):
pushed back. But they just released character posters.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yes, so exciting This is the time.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Of year when you know it's Comic Con, as dagon Con,
all these things are coming out to get you excited
as a fan of stuff. So I'm excited. It's as
you should be, as you should be, so please enjoy
this classic episode. Hey, this is Anny. I'm welcome to
(03:06):
Steffan Never Told You production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to
another edition of Spoiled Saturdays.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, but we've only.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Done one of these. It's been a minute since we've
done two. Okay, we've definitely done something that was like
in the realm of Spoiled Saturdays. I don't know if
we'd called it that yet. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited.
But yes, as the titles suggest, spoilers, massive spoilers, everything spoiled.
(03:45):
So if you don't want to be spoiled on the
new Spider Verse movie, go.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Away, come back, go live alone, people.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Come on, Yeah, come on. As I was doing this,
I realized we never did the first one. We kind
of talked about it in and uh we No, we
never did it. We talked about it briefly in our
superhero themed holiday feminist movies around the world, where we
did like Batman and Iron Man three Expider first.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Oh yeah, I know, because we need to come back
to it, then we should.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I have so many thoughts on that. As I was
doing this, I had such a glorious moment of it's
so nice when you just know something so well that
I'm just writing from the heart. I don't have to.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
When we were talking about doing it, I was like,
this is gonna be an easy one for you.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Just go for it.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
The hard part was condensing it, to be honest, but
I tried my best.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yes, which listeners, he does have a little little warning
side note, keep it brief us.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
In July Annie to myself, I wrote it in there,
don't do it and speaking of because I wanted to
go into all these tangents about like the animation and
the technology involved.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's not really this podcast, but I did do that
on Movie Crush when I did an episode on the
first one where I really went in. So if you
want to listen to that, I would recommend it. It's
very nerdy. I'm talking about like the Kirby dots and
the Kirby crackle and all this stuff. That's great, but
to say like new technologies have been invented to make
(05:25):
these movies. They have an R and D department to
make these movies, so really cool stuff. This one has
been very successful. It has very been very critically acclaimed.
It made more money and it's opening weeks than the
first one did all together, so it's doing well. And yes,
as Samantha I were discussing right before, there are two
(05:46):
different versions of this movie in theaters. Essentially what happened
was there was kind of a complaint about some of
the audios, so they fixed some of the audio, and
then there's about twenty very small differences in between the
two of them. So that's just if you want to
look it up, there's some guidelines of the differences, so
you can be like, oh, here we go, that's the
(06:07):
version I watch. Yes, so I'm gonna do a rundown
of this plot because it's kind of it's a lot,
and I feel like i'll just it'll be easier if
I just go to just go, just go, Okay. So,
Spider Man Across the Spider Verse is the twenty twenty
three sequel of the critically acclaimed twenty eighteen Spider Man
(06:31):
Into the Spider Verse, both written and produced by Phil
Lord and Christopher Miller. Both of these films are unique
in their animation styles. They have two D, they have
three D, they have stop motion, different frame rates, bright colors,
and just a lot of different stylistic animations like noir, anime,
punk and colors that make them very, very beautiful. It
(06:53):
is like watching a living comic book. So in the
first movie, which yes, I will keep this brief, Miles
uner Alis discovers a multiverse of alternate universes and their
respective Spider People and not even people always with their help,
he learns to accept his role as Spider Man after
the death of Peter Parker in his universe, along the
(07:14):
way learning his uncle Aaron is the Prowler who is
a villain, and he gets killed by Kingpinn while also
strengthening his relationship with his father, who is a police officer.
All of the other Spider People are returned to their
own universes. The second one picks up pretty much right
where that one ended, though it starts with Spider Woman
(07:36):
slash Gwynn Stacy's POV and going a bit more in
depth into her backstory of how she Spider Woman, was
blamed for the death of her best friend and only friend,
Peter Parker, something that has made her really closed off
and has driven a wedge in her relationship with her
police chief father, who is determined to catch Spider Woman
(07:58):
and bring her to justice, not knowing it's Gwynn and
kind of not understanding why Gwinn doesn't want him to
do it. After the events of the first film, she
missus Miles, who is the first friend she'd made after
the death of Peter. While investigating a disturbance, she sees
the sort of Italian Renaissance version of the Vulture. And
(08:19):
by the way, the song on the soundtrack is called
Vulture gets Culture because it happens out of museum and
I love it anyway, he's glitching, indicating that he is
from another universe. They fight, and soon Miguel O'Hara slash
Spider Man twenty ninety nine shows up from his universe
(08:39):
to aid her, and he was introduced as an Easter
Egg in the end credits of the first one. Actually,
he also shows up with another Spider Woman, Jess Drew,
and together they are able to subdue Vulture. Gwinn reveals
her true identity to her father and he tries to
arrest her, hurt Gwyn and accepts Miguel's very reluctant offer
(09:02):
to join the Spider Society and escapes into a portal
with him and Jess. So basically, he's implying he's having
to grow and clean up their mess that they created
by trying to fix this Collider multiverse problem, and he's
not happy about it, and he doesn't want her in
the society, but Jess is like, no, no, I think
we should have her in. Meanwhile, Miles is struggling to
(09:25):
balance his responsibilities as Spider Man with those of his
family and academic life as it comes time for college applications,
especially when his family doesn't want him to leave Brooklyn.
He also imagines telling them about his identity as Spider
Man that he holds himself back, even as his parents
suspect he is lying to them, and he misses Gwyn too.
(09:46):
He also does not have much in the way of friends,
so he keeps mentioning these friends like Quinn, and his
parents are like, why haven't we never met Quinn and
he's like, oh, well. He encounters what he calls a
bad guy the week called the Spot. I'm just going
to call him Spot throughout this, but it's the Spot
who after the accident with all the alternate universes at
(10:09):
the company he worked for, alchem X from the first one.
He has these interdimensional spots and portals on his body.
He blames Miles for what happened to him and reveals
that he transported the spider that bit Miles from another
dimension Earth forty two. Spot learns how to travel through
universes using his spots and decides to increase his power
(10:30):
to become more than a bad guy of the Week.
Gwinn and Miles reunite and he follows her and learns
she's been tracking Spot through dimensions. Just tells Gwen to
leave Miles behind, but Miles jumps in the portal after
Gwen taking them to Mumbatan on Earth fifty one oh one,
Mumbatan being Mumbai in Manhattan mixed together. They join forces
(10:54):
with that universe as Spider Man, Paveteer Prabakar and Hobie
Brown Spider Punk as you might know him, to take
on Spot, who is draining that universe's collider to increase
his power. Spot escapes, but he leaves Miles with this
vision of the death of his father Jeff, who had
just been promoted to police captain. While Pavteer is saving
(11:19):
his girlfriend, he sees her father, the police captain, in danger,
but is unable to get to him in time without
dropping his girlfriend, so Miles saves him instead. But Mumbaton
starts to collapse because Miles has disrupted a quote cannon event.
While some Spider People come to do damage control, Gwynn,
(11:39):
Hoby and Miles go to the Society's headquarters on Miguel's world,
Earth nine two eight, and it's this huge complex with
hundreds of Spider people. Okay, so brief aside. I know
I probably don't have to explain this because I've talked
about it a million times on here, but cannon is
something that is produced when accepted authentic author and in
(12:02):
something like Marvel, it's even more than that. It is
the current accepted properties storylines, works that are accepted as
the quote real ongoing story as decided by whoever owns
the property. In this case, it would be Marvel slash Disney,
i e. Anything not canon would be something like Legends,
(12:23):
which is what it's called in Star Wars, and no
longer has any impact on the current canon, though a
lot of crossover can be had there, which is very confusing,
very very confusing. There is also head canon, which is
like your own personal idea of what happened and you
keep it to yourself, but that's just in your head,
(12:45):
that's how it went. And then there's fanin, which is
like when a bunch of head canons come together and
make fanin. And that can be confusing because you think
you hear it all the time because fans believe it.
You think that it's canon, but it's fanin.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That's a whole TikTok trend. Now I know, to make mistakes.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
It's essentially I think when people make mistakes or do
something that's so common, but it's like they're gonna.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Have to learn for themselves. It's just cannon. It took
me a long time to be like what, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Kept seeing headlines about it. I assumed it was something
like very silly, like this is my canon event and
you stebbed a toe or something, But I know, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
It's essentially like every person, every fandom or every group
of like growing into this age or doing this. I
guess it could be like when I say my niece
is gonna come to Atlanta. She'll learn for herself and
then become more liberated. I guess in that way liberal.
Uh huh, that's like that's canon that way interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
All right, well, listeners, let me know, because I yeah,
I was.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I think that's what I assumed. Well, that's what it seems.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You can have a lot of fun with it, I'll
say that. So in this case of the movie, a
cannon event would be something that has to happen, yes,
because it is cannon. So Miles is reunited with his mentor,
Peter B. Parker, and introduced to his daughter may Day
or May, who Peter had in part because he wanted
(14:15):
to raise a child like Miles. Miguel informs Miles that
every Spider Man has a cannon event that cannot be
changed without wrecking reality, usually the death of a loved one.
After a tragedy in his own universe, Miguel attempted to
replace another version of himself who is happy, but it
led to that universe to collapse, and he did care
(14:36):
about that version of his family, but they all kind
of got wiped out. Miles realizes that his cannon event
is coming in two days, the murder of his father
by spot. He tries to escape to change it, but
Miguel imprisons him. Later, Hoby helps break him out before
jumping away in a portal, quitting the society. He's a
(14:57):
very like fight the System, Fight the Man. I'm done
and they have these handy dandy wristband portal jumping things,
which is the gizmo from the end credits of the
first one. Miguel orders all Spider People to stop Miles,
resulting in a hectic chase where he tells Miles that
(15:19):
he is a mistake, that without him his realities Peter
Parker would still be alive, and that Spider was never
supposed to bite him and the reality the Spider came
from doesn't have a Spider Man. So Miles manages to
get back to the Quote Get Home Machine with the
help of Spider Bite also known as Margo, and this
(15:43):
is a machine that uses DNA to send people to
their home dimension. He returns to his home dimension after
realizing that Gwenn and Peter b knew about all of this,
and he feels very betrayed by that. He reveals that
he is Spider Man to his mom, but she doesn't
know who he's talking about, and then Uncle Aaron arrives
(16:03):
and Miles realizes he is in the wrong reality. The
reality of the Spider that bit him was from this reality,
and it is the one that has no Spider Man,
so you can see chaos outside. Aaron surprise attacks Miles,
and when Miles wakes up, he's tied to a punching bag,
which by the ways of running joke about Spider Man
being a punching bag, and he learns in this universe
(16:25):
Aaron isn't the Prowler Miles is. Meanwhile, Miguel kicks Gwynn
out of the Spider Society and she returns to her
universe to learn that her father quit his job. They
reconcile and he gives her the Portal watch thing I'm
sure there's official name, but you know that Hobie left
for her. She uses it to go to Miles's universe
(16:48):
intending to help him, only to learn he's not there.
A team from the Society are there too, Miguel and
Jess and Scarlet Spider who's like the really angsty emo
Spider Man Gwenn and it puts together a team to
help Miles, including Peter b Spider Noir, Spider Ham, Pabbeteer, Hobie, Margo,
and may Day. And that's how it ends. Cliffhanger. So
(17:22):
in this alternate universe, his dad Miles, his dad is
dead and Aaron has survived. But that brings me to
one of the things that of course kept popping up
in my feed. The creators have said this is their
version of the Empire strikes Back. It has the vision
of losing a loved one, but it's inverted because it's
so it's sort of like the reveal at the end
(17:43):
is that, oh, I'm the villain and oh my dad
is dead. Instead of Empire strikes Back, the reveal is, oh,
my dad's the villain and he's a wife. Oh yeah.
But it has a bunch of like if again, if
I was left to my d brothers, as the cool
people say, I would just go into the and talk
about hilarities. And the difference is, but one person pointed out,
(18:08):
is actually more like Matrix Reloaded, because you get to
the end of Matrix Reloaded and you realize, like this
whole time, you thought you were fighting to do the
right thing and do good, and there's this whole system
in place that is keeping you from changing anything. So
I thought that was interesting. There's also a big a
I don't know if it's theory is the right word,
(18:29):
but a lot of people have pointed out that in
the first one, when Miles and Spider Man first interact,
Spider Man has like the red blue like spider tingle
things happening, and Miles has purple and green and they
kind of have like this headache moment. And some people
have said he was supposed to be that world's Prowler
(18:52):
because of the Spider from the other universe. Things went
to differently, like.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
When a Gleren dies, he becomes the new Prowler. Is
that what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It's supposed to be. Yeah, like he was because he
loved to sell Claren. Yeah, I was following in his footsteps,
really wanted to do it. They haven't. I don't think
the creators have said if they meant to do it
or not, but it feels very They don't usually put
anything in these movies without it meaning something, so which
(19:23):
leads us too the discussion. One of the big things
people have talked about is whether or not there's a
trans character in this movie, and so the reason people
are talking about that is because quote the film subtly
integrates additional affirmation for the transgender community, and Spider Gwynn,
(19:46):
voiced by Hailey Steinfeld, prominently displaying pink and blue hues
symbolic of the transgender flag, while her father's police uniform
briefly reveals a badge adorned with the trans flag. And
so in Gwenn's world, it's very it's why color based.
The colors are representative of her emotions and how she
feels at that moment, and most often they are the
(20:10):
colors of the trans flag, and the artists clearly know
what those colors are if they have a trans flag
featured in two different instances in her world. So the
art styles in these movies are very specific to each
character and they are meant to communicate something about that character.
Here's a quote from one of the creators about the
(20:30):
futuristic slash blade runner style that they use for Miguel's world,
and you can see the lines on Miguel, like the
pencil is unfinished. It's kind of a cruel joke on Miguel,
who's essentially asserting that the future is written. But the
image is constantly undermining his argument and saying, in fact,
the future is not completely fleshed out. And here's a
(20:50):
quote from vox. Devotees have pointed out that the Spider
Woman is literally Eg has a trans flag in her room,
and symbolically EG experiences the allegory of coming out depicted
as a trans ally, if not trans herself. Gwen's possible
transness and even her allyship is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So from fan the green Casey quote, trans and even
SYS fans have every right to say Gwen Stacy is trans.
Even if the movies never outright confirment, we can't deny
that it's been hinted at. The fact is, if she
can make somebody feel represented, who are you to tell
them they're wrong. Fans also noticed that Gwenn's father, policeman
(21:31):
George Stacy, has a transgender flag that he wears on
his uniform. That's notable for a couple of reasons. One
of those is that in the real world, trans activists
have said that trans people, especially black transgender people, often
face discrimination from law enforcement. Said discrimination is a huge
reason why trans people don't feel comfortable asking police for help.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yes, and you see him wearing the flag after he
accepts her identity a spider woman and believes her because
she's continually telling him this and he doesn't leave her,
indicating that he is an ally and some speculate that
he would only be an ally in the context of
Gwenn's potential of being trans if he had a trans
family member. Then it made me happy because the Mark
(22:18):
Hamill gift is going around again of when he says,
if you believe Luke Skywalker is gay, he's gay. Yes,
But that brings us to the question why not do
it out right? Countries censor LGBTQ plus content and studios
know it, and they are studios are primarily profit driven. Again,
(22:39):
they are not allies. That's what we talked about in
our recent episode about what's happening and a bunch of
a bunch of these companies in the US, even with
this small mention, like I didn't even notice it the
first time this movie has been banned in two countries,
and yeah, that's what we talked about. With what's going
on with Target bud Light facing backlash. It's not an
(23:00):
excuse at all, but that is what they're thinking. And
I will note the creators have kind of flat out
said that the Studio metals, they're kind of big sneaky
about it, but basically they were fired from solo. Oh.
I don't know if you know that, but anyway, they were,
(23:21):
and they have said about that. I always remember the
original trilogy were independent movies. Yeah, something else before we
move on from Gwen Stacy. Gwinn Stacy, it's kind of
infamous for an example of fridging. It's not just that,
(23:43):
but in Spider Man to the Amazing Spider Man two
there's that kind of like slow mow fall that she has.
But that's based on the night Gwen Stacy died, which
is this very well known comic and when it came out,
people were shocked and Marvel received death threats because she
(24:04):
was a popular character. People loved her and she died
because it was implied, it was very dark. It was
a like stark turn for their normal storytelling because the
implication was maybe he had killed her from the whiplash
of catching her and that's how she died. But it
(24:24):
started this whole thing called Gwen Stacy syndrome because because
that was it was such a popular plotline. Even though
people were pissed about it and they were heard about
it. It became like this iconic scene, and in every Spider
Man movie, I'm pretty sure literally every Spider Man movie,
there's some kind of reference of like somebody following and
(24:48):
you catch them with the web. It became known as
Gwen Stacy syndrome, and it was kind of the start
of like, it's just not a safe to date be
a woman dating Spider Man. It doesn't matter if you're
just like a one off or like you've been dating
for a while, like you are not safe. So it's
this whole thing. I would love to come back and
(25:09):
talk about that more. And in this movie, Gwen Stacy
says in every other universe, Gwen Stacy falls for Spider Man,
which kind of implies like love, but it also implies, yeah,
a literal fall. Yes. But let us move on for
now to canon events and problems with fandom and cannon.
(25:30):
We've talked about toxic fandom at length, but that's kind
of what's going on here. From the Verge. Here's a quote.
It's an insidious, pernicious and this is especially important racist
idea that has thrived in segments of the Spider Man
fandom ever since Miles first appeared in Marvel's comics, and
the way across the Spider Verse subverts it to deepen
Miles's lore is one of the movie's most spectacular feats.
(25:54):
So they were saying the real villain is not Miguel
or the spot, it is this toxic fandom. When Miles,
who is a teen of black and Puerto Rican descent,
was introduced in twenty eleven, there was a huge backlash
as sort of like not my Spider Man thing that
was definitely soaked in racism going on, and this overall
(26:16):
idea that he wasn't as good as Peter Parker, that
he was not really Spider Man, which is at the
heart of the whole film of Miles being told he's
a mistake. If you weren't here, your universe of Spider
Man would still be here. You're not supposed to be here,
that he's the quote original anomaly that started this whole thing,
(26:36):
and Miles saying I'm going to do things my own way.
We don't have time to get into this. But also
when Miles was first introduced, he was not given a
lot of depth. That is not to excuse any racist
attacks at all, but it did improve like but that
says something too of people say like, well, you gave
(26:57):
Peter Parker so much attention in time and depth, and
then you and produce this character and really didn't do it.
But these movies have and games, the games too have
really given like fleshed out his character a lot more.
There's the idea I saw a quote from one of
the creators involved of like encountering this anger from fans,
(27:18):
so that has to be the same story over and over,
and if you deviate from that in any way, just
anger about it. And so on the movie, it's Miles
tampering with Cannon that makes Miguel angry, not the dimension
jumping villain that is like what really upsets him. And
then Canon getting to dictate who gets to be Spider
(27:41):
Man when the message at the heart of these movies
is that anyone can be Spider Man. I also think
there's a moment of that's like examining bad Allyship at
the end with Gwenn and Peter b choosing to protect
the status quo over him, like, didn't they didn't tell
him anything about it. They were willing to like just
(28:02):
go ahead with this, and then realizing that they were wrong,
and then you do have. People loved it, but Hobie's
whole fight the power vibe, this is wrong, we shouldn't
be doing it. It is also a coming of age
story for sure, realizing that things weren't what you thought
(28:23):
that they were, and identity growing up as a superhero,
for sure. According it to Box's alex Abod Santos, who
I have We've been quoting throughout across the Spider Verse
centralizes queer and trans imagery, symbolism, and allegories while creating
a Spider Man whose narrative identity operates with a lot
(28:44):
of components of a coming out story. So that's actually
from movie Web about the Vox article that we have.
But yeah, like the whole idea of the fear of
telling your guardians, of being told you don't belong, his
mother's message of never let anyone tell you you don't
belong fits into all of this.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, And the quote goes on Rio's worries about her
son mirror so many fears that parents of LGBTQ children have,
mainly that family acceptance is the easy part, and it's
that not being able to protect them from the world
that they live in is much more difficult. She knows
he has a secret and she'll love him no matter what,
but she also knows that not everyone will accept her
(29:25):
son as much as she does.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And yeah, that's from the box article.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yes, yeah, And there are a lot of articles about
this about kind of the how queer people connect to
that idea of you have to hire this part of
yourself and being afraid to share it. So that's really interesting.
I think that's one of the reasons it resonates for
so many people too. Well, we have to talk about
the animation a little bit. We want to rain myself in.
(29:50):
But I would say, literally every frame, pause it it's
our I did it with the first one. It's really fun.
There's so much going on. I remember a lot of
people were saying, oh, I'm so overstimulated after seeing it.
And I saw it before. You and I went together
right on my second time, but my first time, I
was in the front row and I was like all
(30:13):
the way back like a played interurbulence.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, I mean both of them.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I was like, I because I saw have bad vision anyway,
and then my contacts often get blurry, but but the
way it sets up, I adjusted my contacts a lot
realizing Oh no, that's just that's just the.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Way it is. It's my vision as I typically think.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
It is a lot like oh god, blinking, so many blinkings.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, but it is really cool, like all the different
styles and frame rates and how they interact. And it
is also, I will say, the longest ever animated film
produced by an American studio. And it is part it's
essentially part one of two. I mean, it's a trilogy,
but I really feel like this one and the next
one are like a two parter. They said they tried
to put it all on one movie, but it just
(31:02):
was not happening. A fourteen year old did get hired
to animate the Lego scene. The creators saw it on YouTube,
did not realize it was fourteen year old. They were
so impressed. They were like, all right.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
They have a major motion picture under their resume at fourteen,
Like they are, They're done, They're ready, like they make
these movies.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yes. Yes. There have been some articles coming out lately,
which is especially interesting because we're still in the midst
of the writer's strike, about some animators saying that this
was not sustainable, they can't keep working like this. In
the words of this person. The next movie, which is
supposed to come out in March, might not come out
(31:46):
in twenty twenty four at all because it is so much,
and several of the animators quit. One called it death
by a thousand paper cuts because of the lack of
understanding by Lord, especially in this article. It was a
variety article about how three D animation works and late revisions,
so essentially like, at a certain point you want to
(32:09):
be I can't just revise this at the end. It
has to happen a lot in the beginning. But it
was kind of the opposite of that, and apparently he
needed to get every sequence approved. But it was interesting
because they were talking about what they're talking about with
the writers strike right now, and what we've talked about
(32:30):
and industries like this and like that, because they were saying,
you know you do you want to work on something
that you love and they know that. And also if
you leave as an artist and someone else takes over
than your name, it's not yours anymore, especially if they
fix it at the end that revision. So they were
talking about like maybe we need to do something with
(32:53):
the union or something like that, So we'll see how
that plays out there is also to add more work
onto them. A woman led spinoff called Spider Woman in
the Mix. I don't know much about that yet. I
don't think they've really said much about it. And then
a lot of articles have also come out, and I've
(33:16):
made the argument that the success of these films shows
that people do want to see more diverse representation, that
it is more representative of all of us. Here's a
quote from NPR and North America. Exit tracking found that
the audience was about one third Latino and another third
Black and Asian. Diversity percentage is far higher than for
most superhero films. And like, going back to the trans
(33:40):
the possibility of a trans character, Like so many people
were talking about that, and it's one of those things
like I'm really happy that's in there. That's a flag
that says protect trans kids in Enguin's room, but it's
also so frustrating that it's like those little scraps for
your like, ah representation. I mean, I'm super thrilled it's
in there, but it's also like we could get more.
(34:03):
We could get more. And then because I have been
really good and I haven't gone too long, We're gonna
have a fun bit at the bottom, okay, which is
just some of my random Easter eggs.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
All right, okay, so just behind the curtain here I
saw the outro. I thought it was the end. There's
a whole full other page.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, because I didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I was gonna cut it if we went too long.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
But we did, okay, So it was a surprise. This
whole recording has surprise.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
I'm just I like to keep you on your toes.
You I like you do. You're good. So a couple
of random Easter eggs. There is a I believe it's
a billboard that says all of it always all over
the place, and it's a bagel place, which is everything
everywhere all at once. For a love, there's a venom bit.
(35:08):
I love that Donald Gover does show it.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Donald Glover.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, there's a lot of there's a couple, not a
lot of folks at Marvel's as in the MCUs, because
soon this will be Marvel as well. Spider Man like
Doctor Strange.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
And to.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yes, but I really want to go through a very
fun list. This is so minuscule. So Polygon has this
article where they identified like pretty much all of the
Spider people, and some of them are so funny. But
please look up the article. I was cackling reading it,
(35:49):
and I can't believe this is all real. But it
is so. All these quotes are from them. But I thought, Samantha,
you and I could go back and forth with a
few of my favorite ones. Okay, let's start with jess Drew,
a quote created in nineteen seventy six in a rush
to stop an animation studio from grabbing the trademark to
the Spider Woman name. Comic book. Jessica actually has no
(36:11):
real relation to either Peter Parker or Miles Morales, having
instead acquired her powers in a bewilderingly arcane origin involving hydra,
her geneticist father, and possibly a talking cow. Spider versus
Chess is thus a wholesale reinvention of the concept, though comics,
Chess did famously have a book in which she did
superhero stuff while pregnant, which she did in the movie Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Hobby Brown, He was fun.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Hoby won the affection of fans by siding with people
against their corporate oppressors, leading the downtrodden masses against the establishment,
and breaking his guitar over the head of the United
States President. I like it.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Also, he's very English punk.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
In the in the it's.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Like magazine cut out santamation.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
So good.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
It's so good, bombastic bag man. Peter Parker learned to
his horror that the black costume he had been wearing
was actually a symbiote alien from another planet. That left
him briefly without any costume to wear around town, but
longtime phrenemy Johnny Human Torch Storm lint to hand, giving
Parker one of his own extra suits, a paper lunch
(37:20):
bag to put over his face, and a kick me
sign surreptitiously taped to his back for good measure. Oh
my gosh, I can't believe this is real.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Spider Cat, which, yeah, you said spider people earlier.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
There are a lot, a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
He is a spider man and also a cat, the
typical coutterie of gamers from Earth nine nine to nine.
Spider Cat gained his powers through an encounter with one
of the mystical Spider Totems in an untold tale that
presumably makes as much sense as any other story involving
the mystical Spider Totems.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's the thing. It's a thing.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I spider Verse. But wow, okay, yes, listen to this one,
Teeter Tarker. Spider Rex is just because it's heterodactyl, so
maybe yeah, yeah, but it is spelled everybody p T
(38:23):
e t R p t A r k e R.
But anyway, spider Rex a resident of the prehistoric world
of Earth sixty six Wildfowler t Rex Peter Darker had
a chance encounter with a spider filled meteorite, granting him
wondrous spider like powers. In an early battle against his
(38:44):
nemesis Nerana Soorman Uh, Tarker accidentally allowed a tree branch
to take the life of the villain, teaching him an
important lesson about responsibility. So good.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
And then we have the Peter Parked car, which is
an anthropomorphic talking car Spider Man.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
These are all in the movie movies.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, so all of those work quotes from that Polygon
article that's kind of just tracking all of the Easter
eggs in there, so please please go read it. I
was laughing so hard, but you can feel kind of
the it shines through that the fans are making these
and they're putting in all of these things. I love it.
(39:36):
I love it can't wait to go again. Yes, wow,
this was fun. I'm excited about doing another Spoiled Saturdays,
So if you have suggestions for that, please let us know.
You can email us That Stuff India mom Stuff at
iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter I'm
mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
(39:56):
I Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We have
a tea public store. We have a book. You can
pre order it. It is coming out August twenty ninth.
You can pre order it at stuff you Should read
Books dot com. We also you can pre order it
on Audible. Thanks a zawis to our super producer Christina,
our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you
(40:17):
Hope I didn't spell everything for you, and thanks to
you Oh no Yeah. Stuff on up Adults Productions. iHeartRadio
for more podcasts, or my heart Radio. You can check
out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or regular
listen to your favorite shows.
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