June 20, 2026 • 22 mins
It's Pride month, and there's a lot of talk about animals and the 'natural order' by those against the LGBTQ+ community. But at its heart, this argument ignores reality, is ultimately pointless, and ignores some pretty cool stuff. We chat about it in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to stuff
I never told you productive I Heeartdio And for today's classic,
we are bringing back a happy Hour we did a
year or so ago about animals being gay, because this
(00:29):
wasn't a thing that I would hear, specifically from a
neighbor of mine when I was growing up, and they
used it as an argument against LGBTQ plus people. The
reason it's been on my mind is not only because
it's Pride month, Happy Pride Month, but I tried to
put together a short episode about how conservative media is
(00:56):
now portraying certain foods is gay, which is not new,
but they very recently on Fox News had a piece
where one of the anchors was like, I was gonna
do fudge, but it's too gay in terms of cake,
and I was just like the mere fact that you
(01:17):
saw that, actually.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hmm. But anyway, also you don't deserve fudge then.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Exactly, Like, it's so frustrating because even having a conversation
about that is playing into these tropes. But also clearly
there are these things we have made. We have gendered,
which we have talked about for on the show, but
also we've made quote gay that don't that doesn't need
(01:49):
to be a thing. That's just not what we need
to be doing. But it reminded me of this conversation
about right about the animals are gay. Oh, we do
have a follow up classic coming where a listener wrote
in with I think of a very important point, not
(02:10):
a counterpoint necessarily, but like kind of the opposite of
the argument I was making in this one, So please
listen out for that. But in the meantime, please enjoy
this classic episode.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I welcome to stuff I never told you protection of iHeartRadio,
and today welcome to another edition of Happy Hour. As always,
if you are drinking or whatever you're doing, please do
so responsibly. Are you sipping on anything, Samantha.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I am sticking with my water because I have decided
I've been dehydrated and need more of that in my life.
Hydration not dehydration.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, I was the I don't know listeners have heard
about this, but the city of Atlanta had a major
water issue, a lot of water rain breaks, and I
was in it, and it was it was funny because
I have so many issues at my apartment, which, by
the way, I need to update you Samantha on my
(03:21):
car drama because.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
There is more.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Wow, there is more. But I thought it was just
my apartment breaking down. Again, it turns out it's like
a city wide issue.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And you're like, Okay, I went.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
To the store to get water and there was no water,
so uh, I'm also I'm recovering because I drink a
lot of water and so like did not have it.
But I also went home that weekend. That's the same
weekend I went home, so I missed like the good
chunk of it. But anyway, that being said, I'm drinking wine. Yes, yes,
(03:58):
you know, and there's no water, you go for the wine,
I guess. So today for the half hour, since it
is Pride month and I have been thinking about a
lot of things around that lately. I mentioned something in
our recent Feminis around the World episode that we did
which was on me, and I was very shy and embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Great, oh thanks.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
But one thing I mentioned in there is something I
wanted to come back and talk about, and well, actually
there are a couple things. There are a couple of
things I want to revisit. One is that I said
in there that I feel really settled, which I do that.
I feel like one of the issues I'm running into
now is other people don't feel settled with me, and
(04:48):
so they're like embarrassed for me, or they feel like
they have to explain me, and I like, I'm good,
you don't have to, you know, talk about it's all right.
So that is something I've run into a couple times.
And most of the time it's really sweet, like it's
like genuinely coming from a good place. But sometimes I'm like, Nah,
don't worry about it, don't have you don't have to
do that. And also when I was talking in there
(05:11):
about like the kind of head turn people do to me, now,
I feel like this is something like a lot of
people experience of like marginalized communities. If you're feminists, if
they people know you're feminists in the head turn. I
think what's interesting to me about this is that I
was like pro gay rights, but now people know I'm gay,
(05:35):
and so it's sort of like a strange It's just
a difference. It's just a little bit of a difference
that I'm having to adjust to. But one of the
things I mentioned in there in passing, but I really
did want to come back and talk about is this
thing that I mentioned about gay animals Samantha right right,
(06:00):
because there was this documentary that came out and conservatives
were up in arms about it about how it was propaganda. Again,
I have not seen it. I can't speak to it,
but I can tell you that I have numerous memories
(06:21):
of people telling me the Animal Kingdom doesn't have queer animals,
there are no gay animals, therefore humans can't be gay.
It's like the natural order is that you it's heterosexual,
and everything else is deviant because we can look to
the Animal Kingdom and look, they're not having gay sex. Well,
(06:43):
it turns out they are. But the thing is, like
I also even if that wasn't the case, I just
do would appreciated comparison in general.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Like why.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Animals do a lot of things people don't do right,
the like animal Kingdom is weird, wild, fascinating, terrifying, and
a lot of it is just not stuff that humans
do right. And so I don't think that that should
necessarily be your reasoning when you're like, oh, you can't
(07:22):
be gay because listen the animals. I've done all my
research and I've never found a gay animal, which you
definitely haven't.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You did no research there? You just want to pretend no.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And that does come up in a lot of things,
like I know, we've all experienced this in one way
or another where people will use examples from the Animal
Kingdom to make some kind of point about how women
are weaker, for example, when again, as you and I
talked about, it's a lot of instances in the Animal Kingdom.
If we're going to go down that path of that
(08:00):
not being the case, that's not true. Yes, yes, And
I did get a kick out of I know I
wrote about this in her book. I've mentioned it before,
but one of the first times I heard the term
asexual was in the nineteen ninety eight film Godzilla. And
recently I watched a new movie not a Sponsor under
(08:24):
Paris and spoilers, I guess the shark can reproduce without
a male.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Oh this is the one you were like, It's actually
pretty good.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I liked it.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I really liked it.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's really interesting given the Olympics are coming up and
everything that's going on with that. But it was I
was kind of watching it like, well, don't need a
man according to this. If I'm looking to the Animal.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Kingdom based on this.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I'm good, yeah, but it's interesting how prevalent that response
has been. And also, like even my mom she asked
me about it because she was like a lot of
her conservative friends will say that, and she was like
kind of confused by it, and I was like, it
doesn't really matter. I mean, maybe animals, it sounds like,
(09:22):
you know, they do get up to all kinds of stuff,
But even if they didn't, I just don't think this
is the this is the conversation that we should be having, right.
It's fascinating to me that how many people like to
do that, and it does go back to so many
of those kind of like natural order things, But when
(09:42):
you break down those natural order things, so many often
they are constructed like social order things, Like I feel
like the same people would make the same argument about
like the woman should stay home and take care of
her the case, and the man should go out in
(10:03):
this very heteronormative way because that's the natural order, when
that's not the case, and even like looking into humanity,
that's not the case everywhere and hasn't been the case everywhere.
It's just that people like to make that argument of
this is the way it should be based on nature,
(10:23):
like this is just how we are, and it's a
it's a strange argument to have with someone because yes,
usually they have not they're not scientists, they haven't really
done any of the research around that. If they see
(10:43):
things that contradict their points, then they're they ignore it.
But also, yeah, I kind of don't want to be
arguing with you about like how dogs have sex, like
that's just not the life five want leads.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Right, Also talk about how like some male species eat
the offspring, Like what where are we going with this? Bro?
Like I just don't gidd this is.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I don't think this is helpful, right, And it's just yeah,
it's strange because I feel like some people, like some
people in this case being the people making that argument,
(11:34):
like being compared two animals or like in nature. But
so many times I just have these questions for you about, well,
you know a lot of animals don't live in your
air conditioned house with your food you buy from the.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Store, Like I don't have a posable thumb.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, Like I don't think we can carry this out,
you know, the way that you want to carry it out.
But that kind of goes back to also this thing
about kind of cosplaying. We talked about this bridget briefly
about kind of cosplaying. Is that the farmer or the
person who can live off the land when it comes
(12:17):
to trap wives or something like that, when that's a
really romanticized like they have people helping them, they do
have a job, they have all of these other things.
So I feel like the comparison to well, look how
this animal did it, You're not that animal.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
They don't believe in the conception of God and Jesus, like,
they don't worship anywhere. They don't like for those who
are a conservative churches who really want to go to
this route, and they're like, well, you want to take
this picture of what you've see in the Bible where
the sheep and all these animals bow quote unquote, that's
not a thing like that's an art piece. And as
(13:02):
much as you want to pretend like they definitely you
can't see whether or not they actually have whatever you
think is a sole spiritual aspect of them like that
that's not necessarily a part of their thing. They don't
go and build churches and then get money and then
try to build more onto the church. So this is
like a weird flex for you to be like, this
(13:24):
is the standard of humanity, yeah, when they're not humans. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And it's also just it goes back to the point
we've made several times because I feel like the argument
underlying it is both like this is natural the natural thing,
which again does ignore that animals do engage in gay activity,
but also that sex is for reproduction, which we know
(13:51):
even outside of the queer community is not the case.
There are multiple reasons why that is not the case
that to me just doesn't make any sense because people
have sex. If you wanted to have a baby every
time you had sex, like, I can't even fathom either
(14:14):
you're not having that much sex or you're having way
too many kids. I don't know. So the argument just
doesn't work for me. But they, I'm telling you, I
come across this a surprising amount, and I just can't
get them to see past that.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And the level of like, again, we have people who
are not able to conceive, whether it's due to fertility
issues or things like that, or whether it's because they're
getting older and fertility issues or they just have like
it's just not a possible thing. Are they also forbidden
(14:57):
forever from sex? Not sex just also not being married,
not like if that's not allowed for them, like they
are now ostracized from that part of the livelihood. Then
you know, shouldn't we have other conversations about this, because
again that doesn't make sense. Also a reminder we should
all be naked, I guess, I mean, which comes into
(15:21):
a whole different conversation because they also oppose that they're
like put on more clothes, damn it.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, and again I'm thinking of a specific group of
people here. They also don't believe in evolution, which makes
sense given, but if you're thinking more like animals, but
you're also saying we're not.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Anything like we are higher beings.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, it's just the level of dissonance I don't understand.
And also I feel a lot of people using this
argument use it for well, that's why you know boys
will be boys, because it's in their nature. So it
is almost a strange card of saying, well, this is
(16:10):
why men want sex so much, need sex so much
in some cases it's like their animal nature and women don't,
which is also not true. But they're like using that
mindset to justify that as.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, right, but also for that to be justified, the
usage of medication to help these men who should be
this virile whatever what and whatnot because they can't do
it naturally. Is also against all the rest of this conversation,
which they are like they never ever really complain about
(16:52):
and are like, yeah, absolutely with us would be a
part of life.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, And it's I just have so many I
know no one here is surprised. I'm not surprised either,
but it's just so frustrating, like all of the hypocrisy
I hear when I hear this based on other things
(17:21):
that they say. And it is true that nature is amazing.
It does have examples of all kinds of queer behavior,
and I think that's really cool. I think we can
acknowledge that and not use it to justify the existence
of that in humans.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Right, There's so many things to be said about why
they really really oppose something, and they need to find
reasons other than the fact that they just it disrupts
their belief system in a way that says that they
are not the moral all out beea that gets to
(18:01):
rule on right and wrong. Like it's just this whole
level of like, Okay, this allows me to be judgmental
in a way that I can say is science, but
it's not science.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right, And if you give them the science, then they
don't want they don't believe it exactly. Oh, I'm sorry
if this was a bit of a mess, Listeners. My
thoughts are all over the place with it because I
just can't every time I try to like figure out
what they're thinking on one thing, again, I'm actually thinking
(18:33):
of a very specific group of people in my life.
Then they do something, I'm like, but don't you see
that I can't argue with you, right, because it doesn't
None of this makes sense, none of this.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
The hypocrisies, and I think it's just again like the
black and white that they live in that doesn't exist,
that never existed, and they're realizing that what they have
learned and what they have tried to live their life by,
or what they think they needed to live that life by,
when it gets shaken and there's a hole or any
(19:07):
of that, then they double down in a way that
they are enable to have any alternate conversation or any
other way of listening or hearing or thinking, because they
need to just find what they need to back up
their own own conversations or own beliefs without actually looking
(19:28):
for it, like they just want someone to validate them,
and then if someone lives in a lifestyle or if
something is disproven, then they have to find a way
to block that out completely to protect themselves from being wrong. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot too, about
there's some people that it doesn't matter, like you're never
going to change your minds, right, And it's sad because
you want to or like you don't want to give
up on them completely, but you're just there. It's almost
like a value they've chosen is I will never ever
(20:05):
change this, right, and so, and.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
They would rather lose someone that was like someone like
I'm just thinking in general with families, like they would
rather lose someone than to backtrack and think about the
actual reality behind the things that they say or think.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, yeah, well I hope this made sense.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Is I think it's just I think it fit the
narrative pretty well, like because it's baffling, like the reasoning,
the conversations, the rationalization, the judgment. I think it's chaotic
in general. So this is the best you can do
and try to feel like what.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, because I was just trying to keep track of
like their thoughts and I couldn't uh wait wait no, okay, okay, okay, Well, listeners,
if any of you have any thoughts about this, if
you have your favorite queer behavior and an animal, I
(21:09):
actually do really like that, So I just don't think
it should be like our what we turn to right
for humanity, but I do like that stuff. Yeah, please
write in and let us know. You can email us
at stepandianmomstuff atiheartmedia dot com. You can find us on
Twitter at momstap podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
(21:31):
stuff we Never told you. Also, yes, we are doing
our Sex and the City watch party with a listener,
so write in contact us if you would like to
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that's really cool. Just keep doing that. If you're interested,
and if you entered already last time we did it,
(21:51):
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our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Stop undervitulal new inspection of my heart Radio. For more
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favorite shows.
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to stuff
I never told you productive I Heeartdio And for today's classic,
we are bringing back a happy Hour we did a
year or so ago about animals being gay, because this
(00:29):
wasn't a thing that I would hear, specifically from a
neighbor of mine when I was growing up, and they
used it as an argument against LGBTQ plus people. The
reason it's been on my mind is not only because
it's Pride month, Happy Pride Month, but I tried to
put together a short episode about how conservative media is
(00:56):
now portraying certain foods is gay, which is not new,
but they very recently on Fox News had a piece
where one of the anchors was like, I was gonna
do fudge, but it's too gay in terms of cake,
and I was just like the mere fact that you
(01:17):
saw that, actually.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hmm. But anyway, also you don't deserve fudge then.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Exactly, Like, it's so frustrating because even having a conversation
about that is playing into these tropes. But also clearly
there are these things we have made. We have gendered,
which we have talked about for on the show, but
also we've made quote gay that don't that doesn't need
(01:49):
to be a thing. That's just not what we need
to be doing. But it reminded me of this conversation
about right about the animals are gay. Oh, we do
have a follow up classic coming where a listener wrote
in with I think of a very important point, not
(02:10):
a counterpoint necessarily, but like kind of the opposite of
the argument I was making in this one, So please
listen out for that. But in the meantime, please enjoy
this classic episode.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I welcome to stuff I never told you protection of iHeartRadio,
and today welcome to another edition of Happy Hour. As always,
if you are drinking or whatever you're doing, please do
so responsibly. Are you sipping on anything, Samantha.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I am sticking with my water because I have decided
I've been dehydrated and need more of that in my life.
Hydration not dehydration.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, I was the I don't know listeners have heard
about this, but the city of Atlanta had a major
water issue, a lot of water rain breaks, and I
was in it, and it was it was funny because
I have so many issues at my apartment, which, by
the way, I need to update you Samantha on my
(03:21):
car drama because.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
There is more.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Wow, there is more. But I thought it was just
my apartment breaking down. Again, it turns out it's like
a city wide issue.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And you're like, Okay, I went.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
To the store to get water and there was no water,
so uh, I'm also I'm recovering because I drink a
lot of water and so like did not have it.
But I also went home that weekend. That's the same
weekend I went home, so I missed like the good
chunk of it. But anyway, that being said, I'm drinking wine. Yes, yes,
(03:58):
you know, and there's no water, you go for the wine,
I guess. So today for the half hour, since it
is Pride month and I have been thinking about a
lot of things around that lately. I mentioned something in
our recent Feminis around the World episode that we did
which was on me, and I was very shy and embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Great, oh thanks.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
But one thing I mentioned in there is something I
wanted to come back and talk about, and well, actually
there are a couple things. There are a couple of
things I want to revisit. One is that I said
in there that I feel really settled, which I do that.
I feel like one of the issues I'm running into
now is other people don't feel settled with me, and
(04:48):
so they're like embarrassed for me, or they feel like
they have to explain me, and I like, I'm good,
you don't have to, you know, talk about it's all right.
So that is something I've run into a couple times.
And most of the time it's really sweet, like it's
like genuinely coming from a good place. But sometimes I'm like, Nah,
don't worry about it, don't have you don't have to
do that. And also when I was talking in there
(05:11):
about like the kind of head turn people do to me, now,
I feel like this is something like a lot of
people experience of like marginalized communities. If you're feminists, if
they people know you're feminists in the head turn. I
think what's interesting to me about this is that I
was like pro gay rights, but now people know I'm gay,
(05:35):
and so it's sort of like a strange It's just
a difference. It's just a little bit of a difference
that I'm having to adjust to. But one of the
things I mentioned in there in passing, but I really
did want to come back and talk about is this
thing that I mentioned about gay animals Samantha right right,
(06:00):
because there was this documentary that came out and conservatives
were up in arms about it about how it was propaganda. Again,
I have not seen it. I can't speak to it,
but I can tell you that I have numerous memories
(06:21):
of people telling me the Animal Kingdom doesn't have queer animals,
there are no gay animals, therefore humans can't be gay.
It's like the natural order is that you it's heterosexual,
and everything else is deviant because we can look to
the Animal Kingdom and look, they're not having gay sex. Well,
(06:43):
it turns out they are. But the thing is, like
I also even if that wasn't the case, I just
do would appreciated comparison in general.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Like why.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Animals do a lot of things people don't do right,
the like animal Kingdom is weird, wild, fascinating, terrifying, and
a lot of it is just not stuff that humans
do right. And so I don't think that that should
necessarily be your reasoning when you're like, oh, you can't
(07:22):
be gay because listen the animals. I've done all my
research and I've never found a gay animal, which you
definitely haven't.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You did no research there? You just want to pretend no.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And that does come up in a lot of things,
like I know, we've all experienced this in one way
or another where people will use examples from the Animal
Kingdom to make some kind of point about how women
are weaker, for example, when again, as you and I
talked about, it's a lot of instances in the Animal Kingdom.
If we're going to go down that path of that
(08:00):
not being the case, that's not true. Yes, yes, And
I did get a kick out of I know I
wrote about this in her book. I've mentioned it before,
but one of the first times I heard the term
asexual was in the nineteen ninety eight film Godzilla. And
recently I watched a new movie not a Sponsor under
(08:24):
Paris and spoilers, I guess the shark can reproduce without
a male.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Oh this is the one you were like, It's actually
pretty good.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I liked it.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I really liked it.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's really interesting given the Olympics are coming up and
everything that's going on with that. But it was I
was kind of watching it like, well, don't need a
man according to this. If I'm looking to the Animal.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Kingdom based on this.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I'm good, yeah, but it's interesting how prevalent that response
has been. And also, like even my mom she asked
me about it because she was like a lot of
her conservative friends will say that, and she was like
kind of confused by it, and I was like, it
doesn't really matter. I mean, maybe animals, it sounds like,
(09:22):
you know, they do get up to all kinds of stuff,
But even if they didn't, I just don't think this
is the this is the conversation that we should be having, right.
It's fascinating to me that how many people like to
do that, and it does go back to so many
of those kind of like natural order things, But when
(09:42):
you break down those natural order things, so many often
they are constructed like social order things, Like I feel
like the same people would make the same argument about
like the woman should stay home and take care of
her the case, and the man should go out in
(10:03):
this very heteronormative way because that's the natural order, when
that's not the case, and even like looking into humanity,
that's not the case everywhere and hasn't been the case everywhere.
It's just that people like to make that argument of
this is the way it should be based on nature,
(10:23):
like this is just how we are, and it's a
it's a strange argument to have with someone because yes,
usually they have not they're not scientists, they haven't really
done any of the research around that. If they see
(10:43):
things that contradict their points, then they're they ignore it.
But also, yeah, I kind of don't want to be
arguing with you about like how dogs have sex, like
that's just not the life five want leads.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Right, Also talk about how like some male species eat
the offspring, Like what where are we going with this? Bro?
Like I just don't gidd this is.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I don't think this is helpful, right, And it's just yeah,
it's strange because I feel like some people, like some
people in this case being the people making that argument,
(11:34):
like being compared two animals or like in nature. But
so many times I just have these questions for you about, well,
you know a lot of animals don't live in your
air conditioned house with your food you buy from the.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Store, Like I don't have a posable thumb.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, Like I don't think we can carry this out,
you know, the way that you want to carry it out.
But that kind of goes back to also this thing
about kind of cosplaying. We talked about this bridget briefly
about kind of cosplaying. Is that the farmer or the
person who can live off the land when it comes
(12:17):
to trap wives or something like that, when that's a
really romanticized like they have people helping them, they do
have a job, they have all of these other things.
So I feel like the comparison to well, look how
this animal did it, You're not that animal.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
They don't believe in the conception of God and Jesus, like,
they don't worship anywhere. They don't like for those who
are a conservative churches who really want to go to
this route, and they're like, well, you want to take
this picture of what you've see in the Bible where
the sheep and all these animals bow quote unquote, that's
not a thing like that's an art piece. And as
(13:02):
much as you want to pretend like they definitely you
can't see whether or not they actually have whatever you
think is a sole spiritual aspect of them like that
that's not necessarily a part of their thing. They don't
go and build churches and then get money and then
try to build more onto the church. So this is
like a weird flex for you to be like, this
(13:24):
is the standard of humanity, yeah, when they're not humans. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And it's also just it goes back to the point
we've made several times because I feel like the argument
underlying it is both like this is natural the natural thing,
which again does ignore that animals do engage in gay activity,
but also that sex is for reproduction, which we know
(13:51):
even outside of the queer community is not the case.
There are multiple reasons why that is not the case
that to me just doesn't make any sense because people
have sex. If you wanted to have a baby every
time you had sex, like, I can't even fathom either
(14:14):
you're not having that much sex or you're having way
too many kids. I don't know. So the argument just
doesn't work for me. But they, I'm telling you, I
come across this a surprising amount, and I just can't
get them to see past that.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And the level of like, again, we have people who
are not able to conceive, whether it's due to fertility
issues or things like that, or whether it's because they're
getting older and fertility issues or they just have like
it's just not a possible thing. Are they also forbidden
(14:57):
forever from sex? Not sex just also not being married,
not like if that's not allowed for them, like they
are now ostracized from that part of the livelihood. Then
you know, shouldn't we have other conversations about this, because
again that doesn't make sense. Also a reminder we should
all be naked, I guess, I mean, which comes into
(15:21):
a whole different conversation because they also oppose that they're
like put on more clothes, damn it.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, and again I'm thinking of a specific group of
people here. They also don't believe in evolution, which makes
sense given, but if you're thinking more like animals, but
you're also saying we're not.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Anything like we are higher beings.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, it's just the level of dissonance I don't understand.
And also I feel a lot of people using this
argument use it for well, that's why you know boys
will be boys, because it's in their nature. So it
is almost a strange card of saying, well, this is
(16:10):
why men want sex so much, need sex so much
in some cases it's like their animal nature and women don't,
which is also not true. But they're like using that
mindset to justify that as.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, right, but also for that to be justified, the
usage of medication to help these men who should be
this virile whatever what and whatnot because they can't do
it naturally. Is also against all the rest of this conversation,
which they are like they never ever really complain about
(16:52):
and are like, yeah, absolutely with us would be a
part of life.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, And it's I just have so many I
know no one here is surprised. I'm not surprised either,
but it's just so frustrating, like all of the hypocrisy
I hear when I hear this based on other things
(17:21):
that they say. And it is true that nature is amazing.
It does have examples of all kinds of queer behavior,
and I think that's really cool. I think we can
acknowledge that and not use it to justify the existence
of that in humans.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Right, There's so many things to be said about why
they really really oppose something, and they need to find
reasons other than the fact that they just it disrupts
their belief system in a way that says that they
are not the moral all out beea that gets to
(18:01):
rule on right and wrong. Like it's just this whole
level of like, Okay, this allows me to be judgmental
in a way that I can say is science, but
it's not science.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right, And if you give them the science, then they
don't want they don't believe it exactly. Oh, I'm sorry
if this was a bit of a mess, Listeners. My
thoughts are all over the place with it because I
just can't every time I try to like figure out
what they're thinking on one thing, again, I'm actually thinking
(18:33):
of a very specific group of people in my life.
Then they do something, I'm like, but don't you see
that I can't argue with you, right, because it doesn't
None of this makes sense, none of this.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
The hypocrisies, and I think it's just again like the
black and white that they live in that doesn't exist,
that never existed, and they're realizing that what they have
learned and what they have tried to live their life by,
or what they think they needed to live that life by,
when it gets shaken and there's a hole or any
(19:07):
of that, then they double down in a way that
they are enable to have any alternate conversation or any
other way of listening or hearing or thinking, because they
need to just find what they need to back up
their own own conversations or own beliefs without actually looking
(19:28):
for it, like they just want someone to validate them,
and then if someone lives in a lifestyle or if
something is disproven, then they have to find a way
to block that out completely to protect themselves from being wrong. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot too, about
there's some people that it doesn't matter, like you're never
going to change your minds, right, And it's sad because
you want to or like you don't want to give
up on them completely, but you're just there. It's almost
like a value they've chosen is I will never ever
(20:05):
change this, right, and so, and.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
They would rather lose someone that was like someone like
I'm just thinking in general with families, like they would
rather lose someone than to backtrack and think about the
actual reality behind the things that they say or think.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, yeah, well I hope this made sense.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Is I think it's just I think it fit the
narrative pretty well, like because it's baffling, like the reasoning,
the conversations, the rationalization, the judgment. I think it's chaotic
in general. So this is the best you can do
and try to feel like what.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, because I was just trying to keep track of
like their thoughts and I couldn't uh wait wait no, okay, okay, okay, Well, listeners,
if any of you have any thoughts about this, if
you have your favorite queer behavior and an animal, I
(21:09):
actually do really like that, So I just don't think
it should be like our what we turn to right
for humanity, but I do like that stuff. Yeah, please
write in and let us know. You can email us
at stepandianmomstuff atiheartmedia dot com. You can find us on
Twitter at momstap podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
(21:31):
stuff we Never told you. Also, yes, we are doing
our Sex and the City watch party with a listener,
so write in contact us if you would like to
be on that. We've already heard from some people, so
that's really cool. Just keep doing that. If you're interested,
and if you entered already last time we did it,
(21:51):
you would like to re enter for this time, then
please re enter. We also have a tea public store
and we have a book you can get wherever you
get your books. Thanks so too, our super producer Christina,
our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Stop undervitulal new inspection of my heart Radio. For more
podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out the
heart Radio app Apple podcast where you listen to your
favorite shows.
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