February 7, 2026 • 53 mins
Around the world, the birth rate is declining and it is sounding a lot of alarms. What is behind the decline? While some would like to blame feminism, there are many factors at play. We discuss in this classic episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. Welcome to stuff I
Never Told You product if I Hearted You, And today
we are bringing back a classic that we did around
the birth rate and declining birth rate because this has
(00:28):
been on my mind for a while, and I think
it's been on a lot of people's minds for a while,
and I think we need to come back and revisit it,
probably because there's a lot of reporting being done about
how it looks at different countries and why it's happening
in different countries. But there are some very very reoccurring
(00:49):
themes that are usually around women having more opportunities than
they previously had had and cost cost of raising a
child having a child. But it's like a lot of
countries are talking about this, are worried about this. So
(01:13):
until we come back and revisit it, here is our
classic episode on it. Please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie
and Samantha and welcome to Stefan Never Told You, a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And welcome and Happy Women's International Day, International Women's Day.
I said it wrong, International Women's Day.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Annie, Yes, Happy International Women's Day to you as well.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
And y'all we are actually recording the day of just
to give you a time fram Yes, this is March eighth,
four and yeah, this is very current affair, so everything
we speak of is gonna be relatively current, so in
the last couple of.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Years for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
But yeah, it's International Women's Day, and what better day
than to talk about the declining birth rate? No, yeah, yes,
that's a hell of an introduction, right, Yes, definitely, And
we're gonna go ahead and put a content warning so
(02:28):
we're not necessarily talking about anything to a graphic, but
there's going to be a conversation about children and babies
and birthy and reproductive health, so there you go, and
limited rights of women and marginalized communities.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
All right, let's have a cele Women's Day.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
That's how we do it. So and I think we
talked about this actually this week. We always have these
ideas for our shows, and we, oftentimes, especially me, underestimate
how deep some of these topics run. I will say
I was able to do this one in one episode,
I hope, unless we get to really deep conversations.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So I want to edit all that.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
But yes, this is a little larger than what I had,
which we were going to do as a Monday mini
because I've seen so many tiktoks about it, and I
was like, Yes, we need to talk about this. And
I really thought that this specific topic was going to
be a quick rundown of the declining population and the
people who have refused to have more children as a
(03:35):
form of protests to the ill treatment and constant abuse
that they've had to suffer at the hands of the
patriarchy and misogynists in Asian countries specifically, but as per usual,
while doing the research, we found some connections, some disturbing
connections all around the world on how politicians and people
in power i e. Men in power and racists are
(03:58):
trying to find against people who can get pregnant and
who are choosing not to have children. So we've had
several episodes talking about different perspectives on choosing whether or
not have children, people who are not physically able to
have children, and for those who do have children, the good,
the bad, the difficulties, and the rewards.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
We've talked about.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
The sexism, racism, and ableism and so many other isms.
When it comes to the overturning of Roe v. Wade
and all the other violations that are part of the
aftermath go back to our recent episode on the Comstock Act.
But today we're not just talking about those who've decided
to go agetinst societal norms and not star families, which
(04:41):
is causing a decline in birds and the population, but
also talking about the link between the declining birth rate
and current abortion bands that are happening today. And that's
just a really minor part in this, but we thought
it was important to talk about it because the link
is there, the connections are there, and we need to
have a broader conversation about that and where we are
(05:02):
going with this and where it is getting frightening. It's
been frightening. So with all of that, let's talk numbers.
We love some numbers. According to recent reports and data,
the number of people choosing not to have children has
caused a significant decline of the birth rates, so much
so that many governments are approaching panic to try to
(05:23):
adjust those numbers, and to help us discuss this topic,
we wanted to add this quote from Visualcapitalist dot com
titles charted the rapid decline of global birth rates, which
differentiates birth rate and fertility rate so quote. Birth rates
are commonly measured using a metric called the CRUD birth
rate or CBR, which represents the number of live births
(05:46):
per one thousand individuals in a given population during a
specific period, usually one year. The measured decline in CBR
is also a result of plummeting fertility rates across the globe.
Not to be confused with birth rate, fertility rates measure
how many children a woman will have over the course
of her lifetime. While the country's birthrate is directly impacted
(06:08):
by the fertility rate, it also takes into account other
factors population size, a structure of the population, access to contraception,
cultural norms, government policies, and socioeconomic conditions.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So with that, a research article that we found on
the United Nations Population's fund Are UNFPA titled policy responses
to low fertility? How effective are they? Says quote. In
the last three decades, sub replacement fertility has spread around
the world. One half of the global population today lives
(06:41):
in countries where the period total fertility rate is below
two point one verst per woman. East Asia, Southern Europe
and parts of Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe reached ultra
low fertility rates with the period total fertility at one
to one point four and family size at one point
point four to one point six births per woman born
(07:03):
in the mid nineteen seventies.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Right, And the information that was released in twenty twenty
three seems to only confirm these ideas, so that was
from twenty nineteen. According to the same Visualcapitalist dot com,
every country on the list has seen a decline in
birth rates in the last seventy years, with some declines
more stackering than the others. For example, China recorded forty
(07:25):
one births per one thousand people in nineteen fifty. By
twenty twenty one, that number had fallen to just seven
point six at an eighty one percent decrease. South Korea,
the twenty ninth most populous country in the world in
twenty twenty one, saw an even larger eighty six percent
drop in its birth rates since nineteen fifty. In fact,
almost every single country in this data set has seen
(07:49):
a double digit fall in their birth rates over the
past seventy years. Only the Democratic Republic of Congo has
seen a single digit percentage decline between nineteen fifty and
twenty twenty one. And we know what's happening with the DRC,
So I feel like those numbers are askewed, and the
list they show or talk about is quote a snapshot
(08:09):
of the CBR for the forty nine most populous countries
of the world at different years from nineteen fifty to
twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Just to as some context, right. The economists featured in
an article in twenty twenty three addressing the possible consequences
of the declining birth rate. The article says, quote, and
they're roughly two hundred and fifty years since the Industrial Revolution.
The world's population, like its wealth, has exploded before the
end of the century. However, the number of people on
the planet could shrink for the first time since the
(08:37):
Black Death. The root cause is not a surge in death,
but a slump and burse. Across much of the world,
the fertility rate, the average number of burst per woman,
is collapsing, and it continues quote. In two thousand, the
world's fertility rate was two point seven burst per woman,
comfortably above the replacement rate of two point one at
(08:58):
which a population is. Today it is two point three
and falling. The largest fifteen countries by GDP all have
a fertility rate below the replacement rate. That includes America
and much of the rich world, but also China and India,
neither of which is rich, but which together account for
more than a third of global population. The result is
(09:20):
that in much of the world, the patter of tiny
feet is being drowned out by the clatter of walking sticks.
The prime examples of Asian countries are no longer just
Japan and Italy, but also include Brazil, Mexico and Thailand.
By twenty thirty, more than half the inhabitants of East
and Southeast Asia will be over forty. As the old
dye and are not fully replaced, populations are likely to shrink.
(09:44):
Outside Africa, the world's population is forecast a peak in
the twenty fifties and end of the century smaller than
it is today. Even in Africa, the fertility rate is
falling fast.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
So of course, the reasons behind the lower birth rates
may differ all over the world, as does the possible solutions.
But according to the earlier article from UNFPA quote, among
the main drivers of low fertility is the incompatibility between
professional career and family life. In times of women's massive
post secondary education and labor force participation on the one hand,
(10:17):
and rising individualistic aspirations on the other hand, The inability
to combine paid work with child rearing often results in
childlessness or having one child only. This is closely connected
with persistent gender inequalities and housework divisions. For decades, societies
with strong traditional gender role norms have been continuously witnessing
(10:38):
very low fertility. More recent factors contributing to fertility decline
include the trend towards intensive parenting, as well as labor
market uncertainty and instability coupled with soaring house prices. And
though some narratives may try to point at feminism and
it is kind of true and the overall lack of
a desire for children in the first place as the
(10:59):
reason for declining, there's a lot of research showing that
desirability for children hasn't gone down at all. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I actually read an interesting article kind of relating to
this the other day about how a lot of parents
can only afford to have one kid, Like they want kids,
but they can only have the run. So there's this
like really big explosion of single only children. But that
puts pressure on them because, at least in the US,
a lot of times the children have to pay for
(11:39):
your parents when they get older, when they get sicker,
and so it's sort of causing this this really negative
effect of these kids not being able to afford that
and kind of getting really in bad financial situations because
they're the only child, which right, a lot of that
(11:59):
situation is messed up anyway, Like we shouldn't write our
medical system in the US is not good. Exactly, but exactly.
I thought that was interesting because I hadn't really considered
that before.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Well, I've definitely been told many times, who's going to
take care of you when you were old?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yes, me too, Exactly how are you going to be
all alone?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Thanks mom?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Thanks mom? Okay, Well, here's a quote from the Conversation
dot com about the US birth rates and some data
they had found during their research. Quote. We found remarkable
consistency and childbearing goals across cohorts. For example, if we
look at teenage girls in the nineteen eighties, the cohort
(12:40):
born in nineteen sixty five to sixty nine, they planned
to have two point two children on average. Among the
same age group, in the early twenty first century, the
cohort born in nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety nine
girls intended to have two point one children on average,
slightly more young people planned to have no children now
than thirty years ago, but still the vast majority of
(13:01):
US young adults planned to have kids, around eighty eight
percent of teenage girls and eighty nine percent of teenage boys.
We also found that as they themselves get older, people
planned to have fewer children, but not by much. This
pattern was also pretty consistent across cohorts. Among those born
in nineteen seventy five to seventy nine. For instance, men
(13:22):
and women when they were twenty to twenty four planned
to have an average of two point three and two
point five children, respectively. These averages fell slightly to two
point one children for men and two point two children
for women by the time respondents were thirty five to
thirty nine. Still, overwhelmingly most Americans planned to have children,
and the average intended number of children is right around two. Right.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And I think you and I have talked about when
we saw ourselves in early twenties, we really thought by
twenty five we would have two children. I had two
children in mind, had to be an even number. And
I just saw TikTok about that, like, because one of
them will be alone if activities are like if they
have to ride a plane and then you have to separate,
(14:06):
Like all these things about wanting to have either two
or four to make sure that didn't happen, and I
was like, yeah, and also like the middle child syndrome,
the fact that you don't want to have one middle
child of the three because that's too traumatic.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
At least have two so they can bond.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
That's a middle child.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Of course, I would not. I'd never plan to have
a big family. I also had said that it would
depend on my husband, like even being very much into
the like the Jesus world, I knew that if I
was doing this alone, Hellna.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Right, yeah, I mean that's another factor to consider in
this conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Right, But I really did think that I was going
to have that many children. And then as I get
older and older, and at this point it's almost almost
too late, I say, not really, but because like I
have friends my age who just had children on my
congratulations and they're all happy, and I love that for them.
But like up until recently, like the last three four years,
I could not have afforded. I was living with people,
(15:08):
I was actually having roommates. So there's no way to
me that I could have actually had a child to
pay for all the things and had a full time job,
and like the amount of responsibility to me was too
much and just the thought of it made me have
a panic attack.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, that's one of the things that frustrates me the
most when I'll see sort of the like millennials or
whatever generation that's younger is rooting everything. They're not buying houses,
they're not getting kids, Like we can't afford it, right,
I mean, this is different. I'm sure plenty of people
would like to, but actually it's kind of a responsible
decision to be like, you know what, I can't afford it.
(15:49):
It's sad if you want kids and you can't afford them,
but it is thought is going into it of like Okay,
I can't do this right now.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And I'm sure many people will be like, we turned
out fine, we weren't rich all these things, But then
you also have to be like, yeah, but there's also
a lot of trauma, not a lot of people who
are not okay, So just don't forget that far, Like, yes,
for sure, absolutely, and this is not even adding on
to like health issues. So if you are a disabled
individual trying to manage all of that on top of like,
(16:21):
there's so many points to this conversation that we even
leave out because all of these studies and all of
these incentives and I should have put this at the top,
are very much based on a heteronormative CISC couple and
an ablistic idea that they are perfectly able to have
children without complications. So because yeah, one of the things
that we are not going to mention, and here's the
(16:41):
medical expenses, which should be one of the number one
things because well, the US being the biggest problem with
like subsidized healthcare. That's not anyway mumble mumble, because the
healthcare sucks, but when we talk about that in general,
that the cost of all of that is also a problem,
but we don't mention that here and again when we're
(17:02):
talking about these who they are actually going after especially
and these countries they're going after a heteronormative couples because
we don't mention it. But like Japanese government is not
focused at all on the queer community, as in fact,
it's almost like doubling down saying that they don't need
rights at one point. So just a reminder, Yeah, and
(17:26):
along with all the facts found in the UNFPA article.
It speaks to the fact that many couples are waiting
much later to have children, which may limit the amount
of because they intend to have they write, compared with
earlier eras people today start having their children later, these
delays also contribute to declining birth rates. Because people start later,
(17:48):
they have less time to meet their child bearing goals
before they reach biological or social age limits for having kids.
As people wait longer to start having children, they are
also more likely to change their minds about parents and yes,
that's where I am y'aw.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
But they also note that the reasons stated earlier were
very much linked to the decline. The article continues, but
why are people getting a later start on having kids?
We hypothesize that Americans see parenthood as harder to manage
than they might have in the past. Although the US
economy overall recovered after the Great Recession, many young people
(18:24):
in particular feel uncertain about their ability to achieve some
of the things they see as necessary for having children,
including a good job, a staple relationship, and safe, affordable housing.
At the same time, the cost of raising children, from
childcare and housing to college education are rising, and parents
may feel more pressure to live up to high intensive
(18:47):
parenting standards and prepare their children for an uncertain world.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, all of that is absolute reasons for me that
I decided I did not want to have children. Now
we've gotten the general numbers and facts, so we've got
a good base. We're going to look more closely at
some of the countries that have been making headlines when
it comes to this conversation, and we will start with
the original idea behind this episode of the Asian countries,
(19:13):
and we're only focused on three majors. Don't come at
me because there's so much more out there, but we
were just trying to get examples, and we're talking about
the women who've made a not so subtle statement, you know,
Like we've talked a little bit about the feminist movement
in South Korea and the activists who've been fighting back
against at an administration that has been using every misogynistic
(19:33):
tactic to reverse a lot of the work that seemed
to be happening once upon a time when it came
to moving forward in feminism, and that included the four
be movement. Check out our Feminists around the World episode
we talked about. But just as a quick reminder, the
four BE movement is the four No's which originated in
twenty eighteen twenty nineteen. According to like being public and
(19:55):
stands for no sex with men, no child we ring
no dating men and no marriage to men. And although
this is a simple version of what the overall movement means,
the stance is to amplify the stark disadvantage is placed
on women in the nation, as well as the overall
abuse of nature of the patriarchal state of the country.
And this with the attributing factors we mentioned before, it's
(20:16):
not surprising that South Korea is currently the number one
country with the lowest current birth rate in the world,
and it's been like that for about three four years well.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
According to a recent BBC article published this month, South
Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world and
it continues to plummet, beating its own staggeringly low record
year after year. Figures released on Wednesdays show it fell
by another eight percent and twenty twenty three to zero
point seventy two. This refers to the number of children
(20:48):
a woman is expected to have in her lifetime. For
a population to hold study, that numbers should be two
point one. If this trend continues, Korea's population is estimated
to have by the year twenty one hundred.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Right, And I don't know where North Korea comes into
the play with this. I'm guessing it doesn't because the
statistics aren't from there. But that's that's that's drastic and honestly, yeah,
like we said, this may be one of those situations
where they could blame feminism for the declining population because
(21:21):
the people they've had enough For many of the women
in Korea, they have learned that having a child could
not only be adding on more responsibility, but also cost
them their job, their independence, and overall their freedom. According
to the same BBC article, they say the Korean women
know too much. Essentially, One twenty eight year old woman
who worked in HR said she's seen people who were
(21:43):
forced to leave their jobs or who were passed over
for promotions after taking a maternity leave, which had been
enough to convince her to never have a baby. Korean
women are the most highly educated of those in the
OECD countries, and yet the country has the worst gender
pay gap in a higher than average proportion of women
out of work compared to men. Researchers say this proves
(22:06):
they're being presented with a trade off have a career
or have a family. Increasingly they are choosing a career,
and for those who would gladly choose family over career,
they can't afford to do it. The article continues. More
than half the population live in or around the capital Soul,
which is where the vast majority of opportunities are, creating
(22:28):
huge pressure on apartments and resources. Soul's birth rate has
sunk to zero point five p five, the lowest in
the country. Then there's the cost of private education. While
unaffordable housing is a problem the world over, this is
what makes Korea truly unique.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But housing isn't the only problem. The price for education
for children also adds up. Here's another quote from the
age of four. Children are sent to an array of
expensive extracurricular classes, from mass and English to music in taekwondo.
The practice is so widespread that to opt out is
seen as setting your child up to fail, an inconceivable
(23:08):
notion in hyper competitive Korea. This has made it the
most expensive country in the world to raise a child.
A twenty twenty two study found that only two percent
of parents did not pay for private tuition well ninety
four percent said it was a financial burden.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And y'all, if you've watched any K dramas, you know
this is true. Like people will get real really like
people have died according to the K dramas.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Trying to get these kids into these classes, and like
it's it is like, from what I understand, people private
tutors who are acclaimed they're almost as famous as K.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Pop people like wow.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Education is very valued and we've kind of always known
this to the point that it became a joke. But
it is costly, which I'm like, huh. I always think
I'm like, what, I've been one of those two that
didn't make it. Probably oh sad me. And of course
this all comes with the expectation that women will continue
their level of housework and child rearing at the same
(24:11):
time is helping with income.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
That BBC article continues.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Over the past fifty years, Korea's economy has developed a
breakneck speed, propelling women into higher education and the workforce
and expanding their ambition, but the roles of wife and
mother have not evolved at nearly the same price. And
still I think there's a whole thing about in laws too.
And who takes care of them, and.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It's the wife.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Like it's this like over the top understanding that you
are taking over not only your own household but his household.
And in some respect that tradition is still pretty steeped.
And the government they've seen it coming, and instead of
seeing that they need to actually talk to those that's
affected by it. But the most they try to throw
(24:56):
some money at their problems.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Of course, here's the quote from a March twenty twenty
four article published in Time dot com. President Moonjayan launched
several policies to try and incentivize women to have more children,
(25:22):
including cash incentives for families. Under the scheme, every child
born from twenty twenty two onwards receives a cash bonus
of two million, one one eight hundred and fifty US
dollars to help cover prenatal expenses, in addition to a
monthly payout that increases every month until the baby turns one.
Other incentives include free day care, subsidized pay during childcare leave,
(25:45):
and even group blind dates for public servants to try
and match make couples.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Oh yeah, so thating can help.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
So. In fact, the country has spent an estimated two
hundred billion US dollars to try to fix this problem
as of today hasn't resulted in any changes, and they've
tried other solutions, including hiring nannies from Southeast Asian countries
and paying them below minimum wage gross gross, trying to
(26:15):
incentivize exempting men from military services if they have children
when they're at the under the age of thirty, which
sounds like a misdirect but apparently according to another study,
men are part of the big problem too as well,
maybe because they can't find women. I don't know, but
I said that another texts like this, But it wasn't
(26:37):
until just recently that the politicians, and I mean like
twenty twenty three, that the politicians realize that maybe talking
to the citizens, specifically women or those who can give birth.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
May be helpful.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And yeah, in the past year they have been going
around the country talking to the younger generations.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
But yeah, still no results as of yet that we
have seen or talked about.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I haven't seen any published saying that that's helping and
anybody's changing their minds because.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Most of them are not.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And China has been going through a similar decline. Of course,
the history of China and babies not good not good.
In nineteen eighty, the Chinese government implemented the one child policy,
which was so strict that women were forced into situations
they did not choose for themselves. According to an article
written for the Global Institute of Women's Leadership, a Chinese
(27:26):
researcher wrote, for thirty five years from nineteen eighty to
twenty fifteen, the Chinese government maintained a one child policy,
subjecting millions of women to force contraception, for sterilization, and
forced abortion, and there have been stories about the level
of cruelty the government would use in order to maintain
that one child policy, including killing, the killing of newborn infants,
(27:48):
kidnapping of women if they had were on their second
or more pregnancy, or even taking family members of the
pregnant person as hostages if that expected person was hiding.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
So they went all out, and it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Was in twenty sixteen, a year after they dropped the
one child policy, the government increased it to two and
it now has risen to a three child policy, allowing
people to have up to three children now right, but.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
There are many who are so traumatized by the past
policies that they still live as if they are still
under those policies. Here's a quote from an article from NPR.
The policy permeates through Chinese society in other, sometimes unexpected ways,
because many prioritized having a son over a daughter. Orphotages
(28:39):
experienced a surge, and baby girls who are abandoned or
put up for adoption. Singles Day, China's biggest online shopping
holiday akin to Black Friday in the US, is a
recognition of the many bachelors who are unable to find
partners in a gender skewed society.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
So that could be part of the reason.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
It could be, but the understanding is also there's still
kind of a preference to men two boys, which doesn't
make sense. Yeah in the greatest scream of things. But
I digress. And though they have changed the policy since
then and now seem to recognize that there may be
a problem with the fact that the population has declined,
(29:17):
they have been second largest for the past few years,
India has been number one for the most populous, which
seems to be a blow to the nation's ego. That
surprised me. I have figured that's what they wanted, But okay,
but their new policies hasn't changed the birthway.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yes. Adding on to the imbalance of gender and the population,
the cost of living in Gender inequality has also affected
the numbers, much like South Korea. According to CNBC, as
more women attain higher qualifications and rise up the ranks
in the workplace, they expect their husbands to earn more
than them. In twenty twenty, female students accounted for almost
forty two percent of doctorate degree enrollment and a significantly
(29:55):
higher number of women enrolled for a master's degree than men.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Satista de that has showed, yeah, and of course, so
that means people have been choosier when it comes to
finding their man, to the point that people have been
throwing money people, governments and corporations haven't thrown money at
men to make them look better for mating purposes.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Like I don't know how else to say that.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I mean, you're right, but it sounds so like documentary is.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
This is where we're going at and just as a reminder,
but this still is the expectation that women will take
on all the household work, and that women have less
rights and will be responsible for this entirety of growth
of populations essentially, and of course, add to that the
rising costs of housing and supplies, as we talked about earlier,
(30:51):
along with the increase of children allowed per household, the
government and even corporations have tried to add incentives for
people to have more children. Trip dot Com has tried
to help with the situation. Specifically, according to that same
CNBC article, Trip dot Com is one Chinese company that
takes pride in trying to encourage more women to have children.
In an organization where more than half of its thirty
(31:12):
thousand employees are women, the online travel agency came up
with its own solution to encourage women in the company
to have more children, and a part of that insteadive
is offering subsidies to help with the cost of freezing eggs,
which actually kind of smart to me, Yeah, because they
do talk about the fact that that timeframe that women
specifically use to get their career and all that stabilized
(31:36):
is that you know, I guess the critical time, but
it's a short time, so they can actually help them
pause that process. Maybe that will increase in the likelihood
that they will have.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Children later on. They were talking about this.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
And they help by giving this money, which ranges from
fifteen thousand dollars to three hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Again, kind of a smart idea.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I might have done that, to be honest, not now
with the IVF stuff in the US. No, but you know,
like this is like to me, it's one of the
smart plans.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
I saw a flyer once at my university. I was like,
we'll pay you this much money to freeze your eggs.
And I thought about it, but then I was like, why.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I had people who said they want my eggs. Oh,
they would pay you for your eggs. Really, you know,
you know you.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Didn't get those?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Get those.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
That's the only one.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I saw a flyer. I don't recall any.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I got an email like oh okay, okay, Like I
was like what.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And I thought about it for a split seconds, not
gonna lie, like, but they wanted white babies, so didn't help. Well.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
The government has tried a few tactics as well, going
back to China. According to Time Quote, Chinese government also
tried to introduce new policies to encourage couples to have
more children, enhance childcare, and improved housing facilities for families
with children. Recently, some academics have even proposed taxing couples
for having too few children while making access to abortion
(33:11):
and divorce harder and yeah, pay attention to the last part,
limiting access to divorce and abortions right.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So, the Japanese birth rate has also been greatly declining,
very similar.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
To South Korea.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Many have chosen not to have children due to the
inequality and gender rights and opportunities, as well as the
overall financial burden of having a family.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
According to financialpolicy dot com quote, today Japanese women on
average have just one point twenty six children, far below
the rate of two point one children per woman considered
by demographers as necessary to maintain a stable population. Up
to forty percent of adult Japanese women and fifty percent
of men will not have children in their lifetime according
(33:53):
to government estimates.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Again, much like South Korea, a lot of the reasons
boiled down to the cost of living, cost of education
for children, and according to the same foreign policy dot
com article, the cost for childcare alone in Japan for
two children is about half the earnings of a couple
who have full time incomes, and the wages have barely
been raised in the past thirty years, so significant amount
(34:19):
and just the overall lack of interest in being married,
although that could also have something to do with the affordability.
So here's another quote from Foreign policy dot com. It's
not just the desire to have children that's diminished. Surveys
point to waning interest in relationships and sex, especially among
young people. For Haruku Sakamato, a researcher at the Department
(34:42):
of Global Health Policies at the University of Tokyo, this
too is an economic story. Young people, she explained, simply
do not earn enough to plan for the long term,
making stable relationships seem far fetched. She says, while in
the past people have explained Japan's low sex and relationship
culture as steaming from interest in anime and fictional characters
(35:03):
that supplant interest in real life relationships, is actually an
economic issue. I just really like that they blamed enemy
on this. So and the article continues. Michika Uita Balmer,
a political scientist at Syracuse University in the US who
studies social isolation among Japanese youth, said many young Japanese
(35:25):
women would like to get buried, but they simply cannot
afford it. Survey data shows that young people don't have
the financial stability, necessarity build themselves as a viable partner.
The result is that people don't get married, and because
Japan has the lowest rate of children born outside of
marriage among developed countries, this also means they are unlikely
(35:47):
to have children. So in twenty thirteen, they had what
was considered women nomics policies, which quote promise to integrate
women into the workforce and propel them to high pain.
But the policy hasn't solved women's economic problems. So, like
many other nations, women were not only responsible for the house, home,
(36:11):
and children, but they also took on the financial responsitivety
abortion as well.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Here's another quote in the Age of Women Nomics, Japanese
women are caught in a double bind. High living costs
mean they are no longer expected to stop working once
they have children, yet because they still bear the brunt
of domestic work, even Japan's generous parental leap benefits, which
few men choose to take, are not enough to insulate
women from the pressure to drop out of the labor
(36:36):
force after having children. Even highly educated women who leave
the labor force after having children struggle to eventually reintegrate
back into it. Some fear that in case of divorce,
they'll be unable to stay afloat financially, in part because
of the stark ginger pay gap.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
So the Japanese government has followed suit with many of
the East Asian countries. Late twenty twenty three, the Prime
Minister are announced and estimated twenty two billion dollars to
childcare spending in order to help the birth rate, and
he plans to increase subsidized housing for families with children
and flexible work hours.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Of course, as we've.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Seen, money may not be the answer to all the problems.
But hey, I guess he's trying, I will say, and
we're going to talk about this in the sec better
than what the US is doing. And though we just
used again these three countries for the examples, the steady
(37:33):
decline of birth rate has been seen throughout the world.
Taiwan has spent over three billion dollars trying to encourage
people to have more children, including more parental leave and
large increases in salary. And in fact, one presidential candidate
offered a free bet if they have a child, not
gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
That could have worked on me too.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Then you have to pay for the pet I know, I.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Know, I don't know that he added money to that,
but I.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Was like, that's an interesting time.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
I've got a pit for the it in and according
to the Vox article titled you can't even pay people
to have more kids quote, other countries have tried direct
payments to parents. Russia began offering a one time some
of about seven thousand dollars to families with more than
two kids, while Italy and Greece have experimented with per
(38:20):
child baby bonuses. In twenty nineteen, Hungary introduced a loan
of about thirty thousand dollars to newlyweds. If they have
three children, the loan is forgiven.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
I actually saw something. I think it's Sweden.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Y'all correct me if I'm wrong that literally are trying
to bring people.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
In with children.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Oh wow, tooth and they'll give you and then you
have to live there for ten years and they'll give
you money and incentives.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I had a friend that moved to Sweden. I should
ask her, what's okay.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I think it's one of the s yoking countries. So
y'all tell me Switzerland Sweden? And yes, again, declining birth
rate includes the US. So we said this earlier. The US,
the birth rate of the population is declining. Here's a
quote from that same Fox article, which is mentioned in
(39:15):
the US, the birthrate has been falling since the Great Recession,
dropping almost twenty three percent between twenty seven and twenty
twenty two. Today, the average American woman has about one
point six children, down down from three in nineteen fifty
and significantly below the replacement rate of two point one
children needed to sustain a stable population.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
And as we mentioned previously, many people have decided to
wait to have children. And though the birth rate has
declined overall, the birth rate for people thirty five to
thirty nine has actually increased. According to Census dot Gov.
In the thirty year period, it has increased by sixty
seven percent. Here's a bit from cnn dot Com from
the article titled fertility rates dip People are having babies
(39:57):
later the stage of birth rates in the US. Uote
birth rates have declined in most states across the US
in recent years, while women are having babies at an
older age. According to new data released by the US
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it continues, birth
rates among women in their late thirties and early forties
rose in the last decade, and the birth rate among
(40:19):
women over forty five also exceeded one birth per one
thousand population for the first time in more than a decade. Meanwhile,
the teen birth rate dropped to a record blow in
twenty twenty two, there were thirteen point five births for
every one thy teens ages fifteen to nineteen, down from
thirteen point nine in twenty twenty one. According to the
new CDC data.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Thirteen damn yeah, those numbers are so high, and I
feel like they are purposeful, especially now. And though there
was a small increase during the initial pandemic and lockdown,
nothing shows any actual signs of the race on the
on the incline. Here's a quote from the Scenn article.
Despite the short term plunge and comeback during the early
(41:04):
years of the COVID pandemic, the race have been consistently
trending down. Nearly three point seven million babies were born
in twenty twenty two. According to the CDC analysis of
birth certificates, the overall fertility rate was fifty six point
one births per one thousand women ages fifteen to forty four,
holding relatively steady from the rate of fifty six point
three in twenty twenty one. After a sharp drop in
(41:26):
twenty twenty, birth rates rose in twenty twenty one, the
first increase since twenty fourteen, but the numbers still reflect
the declines that began before the pandemic.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Okay, of course, unlike the.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Other countries, US hasn't been publicly talking about the population
decline or even talking about policy changes directly related to
having more children, such as giving money to parents directly
helping childcare or the such. Although they did alter some
tax deductions for children, they made higher tax deductions and
(42:08):
gave a little more incentive, but I definitely did not
seem as it was about population control or population increase.
But much like how we mentioned China has been doing
more restricted when it comes to abortion access and divorce,
the US has implemented the same practices, but using alternative
languages for it. So during campaign runs for the Republican Party,
(42:30):
a couple of significant figures may have said the quiet
part out loud. In twenty twenty three, Nebraska Republican state
senator used an old racist theory to argue for the
ban on abortion. According to New republic dot com quote,
Senator Steve Erdman decided that the best argument in favor
of the band was quote the Great Replacement theory, which
(42:53):
the Southern Poverty Law Center defines as quote racist conspiracy
narrative that falsely asserts there's an active, ongoing and covert
effort to replace white populations in current white majority countries.
Our state populations have not grown except by those foreigners
who've moved here or refugees who've been placed here, Ermann
told the chamber.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
And it continues.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Ermann also says that all of the aborted fetuses could
be working and filling some of those positions that we
have vacancies in response to jobs. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So before we continue, so here's a look about the
Here's a quick look at the Great Replacement theory from
a PBS article. Simply put, the conspiracy theory says there's
(43:39):
a plot to diminish the influence of white people. Believers
say this goal is being achieved both through the immigration
of non white people into societies that have largely been
dominated by white people, as well as through simple demographics,
with white people having lower birth rates than other populations.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
And how does all of that equal to combating of
the declining birth rate. Here some more from Senator Erdmann.
According to Vice dot com, our state population has not
grown except by those foreigners who have moved. Here are
refugees who have been placed here. Why is that? It's
because we've killed two hundred thousand people. These are people
(44:16):
we've killed. Erdmann said during debate after lamenting that if
abortion had been illegal, that would have resulted to more
people who could be working and feeling some of those
positions that we have vacancy.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
And he's not the only one to say these things
out loud. Seapak, Republican leader, also made a point to
use the same rhetoric. He said, if you say there's
a population problem in the country, but you're killing millions
of your own people to legalize abortion every year, if
that were to produce some of that problem is solved,
Schlap said, you have millions of people who can take
(44:51):
many of these jobs. How come no one brings that up.
If you're worried about this quote unquote replacement, why don't
we start there, start with allowing our own people to live.
And again, he's not the only one that Ohio representative
says something similar as well. This narrative has been around
for a very long time, as in fact, it's I've
actually been around also targeting the Jewish community as well.
(45:14):
But this has been a constant rhetoric. And if you
want to talk about our episodes when it comes to tradwives,
our episodes when it comes to the Red Pill, our
episodes when it comes to religious trauma, they're all linked
in this same conversation with this white supremacist rhetoric that
we have to bring more white people in to bring
(45:35):
in power, that they've lost power, so therefore they need
to have babies, and that abortion ban is the key. Unfortunately,
these tactics have worked enough to sway what is happening
within the US, but politics alone is not what is
controlling this narrative. So are the corporations. The economic threat
of a population decline has become clear to many experts
(45:56):
around the world, but not all corporations have come to
this same understanding at this point, Like we said, trip
dot com and Japan has kind of figured it out.
They're like, okay, we need to help with this. There's
other companies that have been adding to that. We know
some of the companies here in the US, and usually
the smaller companies have been like, we'll give you a
(46:18):
longer maternity better maternity lell we have free childcare here,
but not everybody Amazon Prime example, could care less.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
That was an accidental fun.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I didn't even know.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
A lot of the corporations are seeking to strip even
more rights from their employees. Many many encouraging discrimination for
those who become pregnant, and in fact, recently federal courts
ruled that the Quote Pregnancy Workfairness Act was unenforceable against
the state government and it's in its agency which this
(46:53):
act protects accommodations for pregnant employees in the workplace and
allows workers to sue employers are failing to do so.
It prohibited employers from denying employment opportunities or forcing pregnant
workers to go on leave if alternative accommodations were possible.
And this is from the Texas Tribune dot org, which
is where all of this was coming out from. So
(47:16):
that is significant to know that that was on a
federal appeal.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
And it's very.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Scary because not only are we being told you have
to be pregnant if you were to conceive, if you
were to get pregnant, do you have to remain pregnant?
And go and give birth, but that you have no
rights and they're not going to help you. We talked
of there are several articles that we talked about within
the great Replacement theory, and these senators who literally kept saying, oh,
(47:45):
social Security will help, which we know is dwind linked
very quickly and it is pretty much non existent for
any of us who want to retire at this point.
I believe the boomers were the last to be able
to really get anything from the Social Security administration. There's
so much that we have to look at when we
talk about this, because there it goes hand in hand
(48:07):
when we talk about the declining of birth rates and
as where again we're looking at other countries. We're looking
at European countries who have a little better incentives and
that kind of are willing to pay a lot more
and it's costly, as me and will say, to make
it better. There's many who won't do that here in
(48:29):
the US. And in fact, again they're doing the opposite
by kind of leaning towards China's policies, which is really
funny and ironic right now to me, with trying to
force a population boom, and it's working, and it's working
and that's what's scary. But again, this seems to be
(48:49):
have your cake and eat it to situation for both
the politicians and corporations. And I will say some activists
in the US have talked about similar tactics to those
in other countries. I know those the Sex strike during
a one point that was in talks talking about not
having children, talking about not getting married, talking about some
remaining single, which you know, I get it. But with
(49:11):
what is happening, and as rights continued to be stripped,
it will be likely that the decline will only continue.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Because people are fed up.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah. I have at least two friends who have pretty
much said the shop is closed, like they're just and
it breaks my heart because like, if you want to
have sex, if you want to have kids, it shouldn't be.
But they've been like, as long as this, what is
this is the situation, I'm not going to do it,
(49:45):
which feels very upset. It's very upsetting, but it also
feels kind of funny because I don't think that's what
they wanted the outcome to right of these things. But
that's what I've heard from multiple people.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
It's like, okay, right, cool, I will be interested to
see what happens in the next couple of years, because
we know that practancies due to rape has increased, which
is horrifying. But at the same time, I don't know
if it's just me, but I have getting more and
more disturbing pieces about children's deaths, and some of them
(50:20):
like literal I've just watched one, I guess the crime
thing where a mom was so flustered because she could
not financially provide, she did not trust her for the
children's father to take care of them, and so gave
them the best day and then unfortunately murdered them. I
(50:42):
guess it's side and that's not the only case I've
seen as of recently, I've seen more and more. I
feel like this may honestly be a thing that we
see because.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Women are not seen.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Again, we've talked about the fact that the abortion band
is only going to kill women, but I don't think
of people that can estimate the route of desperation that
many people will have from these situations.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Again, same thing with.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
Forced labor, force birth for those who have been molested
and raped. Similar similar to that conversation of the desperation
that you're not going to understand I'm horrified by what's happening.
But I don't think any of these tactics are going
to push to an increase in birth the way they
think it will.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Now. I don't think so either. There's so much, like
really fundamental systemic things that have to change. I believe
for people to.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Write again, hello, having childcare, having money to feed yourself,
having money to have a bedroom for your child, those
are all things that are dictating whether or not we
want to have children.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yes, yeah, seems pretty obvious, you would.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Think, But I feel like twenty twenty three South Korea
really like, oh, I guess we should talk to those
who can give birth what.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
Maybe we should ask them?
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Maybe we should maybe we should ask them. And then
we have literally gone backwards in the US on how
to handle it again again the pretenses we're saving lives.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, yep. Well, well we have a lot of episodes
about this. As you said, Samantha, it is related to
a lot of other issues. This is another very intersectional thing.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
But yeah, Happy International Women's Day.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
Happy International Women's Day, Samantha, Good luck everybody of Gosh,
I'm glad to spend it with you. I'm glad to
spend it with you too, and I'm glad for anyone
who joined us on this day or any other day.
If you have any thoughts about this, please let us know.
You can email us at stuff at your mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
(53:05):
at mom Stuff podcast or on TikTok and Instagram at
stuff I Never Told You. We have a tea public store,
and we have a book you can get wherever you
get your books things. As always to our super producer Christina,
our executive pducer Maya, and our contributor Joey, thank you
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told
You is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app
Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. Welcome to stuff I
Never Told You product if I Hearted You, And today
we are bringing back a classic that we did around
the birth rate and declining birth rate because this has
(00:28):
been on my mind for a while, and I think
it's been on a lot of people's minds for a while,
and I think we need to come back and revisit it,
probably because there's a lot of reporting being done about
how it looks at different countries and why it's happening
in different countries. But there are some very very reoccurring
(00:49):
themes that are usually around women having more opportunities than
they previously had had and cost cost of raising a
child having a child. But it's like a lot of
countries are talking about this, are worried about this. So
(01:13):
until we come back and revisit it, here is our
classic episode on it. Please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie
and Samantha and welcome to Stefan Never Told You, a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And welcome and Happy Women's International Day, International Women's Day.
I said it wrong, International Women's Day.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Annie, Yes, Happy International Women's Day to you as well.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
And y'all we are actually recording the day of just
to give you a time fram Yes, this is March eighth,
four and yeah, this is very current affair, so everything
we speak of is gonna be relatively current, so in
the last couple of.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Years for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
But yeah, it's International Women's Day, and what better day
than to talk about the declining birth rate? No, yeah, yes,
that's a hell of an introduction, right, Yes, definitely, And
we're gonna go ahead and put a content warning so
(02:28):
we're not necessarily talking about anything to a graphic, but
there's going to be a conversation about children and babies
and birthy and reproductive health, so there you go, and
limited rights of women and marginalized communities.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
All right, let's have a cele Women's Day.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
That's how we do it. So and I think we
talked about this actually this week. We always have these
ideas for our shows, and we, oftentimes, especially me, underestimate
how deep some of these topics run. I will say
I was able to do this one in one episode,
I hope, unless we get to really deep conversations.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So I want to edit all that.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
But yes, this is a little larger than what I had,
which we were going to do as a Monday mini
because I've seen so many tiktoks about it, and I
was like, Yes, we need to talk about this. And
I really thought that this specific topic was going to
be a quick rundown of the declining population and the
people who have refused to have more children as a
(03:35):
form of protests to the ill treatment and constant abuse
that they've had to suffer at the hands of the
patriarchy and misogynists in Asian countries specifically, but as per usual,
while doing the research, we found some connections, some disturbing
connections all around the world on how politicians and people
in power i e. Men in power and racists are
(03:58):
trying to find against people who can get pregnant and
who are choosing not to have children. So we've had
several episodes talking about different perspectives on choosing whether or
not have children, people who are not physically able to
have children, and for those who do have children, the good,
the bad, the difficulties, and the rewards.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
We've talked about.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
The sexism, racism, and ableism and so many other isms.
When it comes to the overturning of Roe v. Wade
and all the other violations that are part of the
aftermath go back to our recent episode on the Comstock Act.
But today we're not just talking about those who've decided
to go agetinst societal norms and not star families, which
(04:41):
is causing a decline in birds and the population, but
also talking about the link between the declining birth rate
and current abortion bands that are happening today. And that's
just a really minor part in this, but we thought
it was important to talk about it because the link
is there, the connections are there, and we need to
have a broader conversation about that and where we are
(05:02):
going with this and where it is getting frightening. It's
been frightening. So with all of that, let's talk numbers.
We love some numbers. According to recent reports and data,
the number of people choosing not to have children has
caused a significant decline of the birth rates, so much
so that many governments are approaching panic to try to
(05:23):
adjust those numbers, and to help us discuss this topic,
we wanted to add this quote from Visualcapitalist dot com
titles charted the rapid decline of global birth rates, which
differentiates birth rate and fertility rate so quote. Birth rates
are commonly measured using a metric called the CRUD birth
rate or CBR, which represents the number of live births
(05:46):
per one thousand individuals in a given population during a
specific period, usually one year. The measured decline in CBR
is also a result of plummeting fertility rates across the globe.
Not to be confused with birth rate, fertility rates measure
how many children a woman will have over the course
of her lifetime. While the country's birthrate is directly impacted
(06:08):
by the fertility rate, it also takes into account other
factors population size, a structure of the population, access to contraception,
cultural norms, government policies, and socioeconomic conditions.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So with that, a research article that we found on
the United Nations Population's fund Are UNFPA titled policy responses
to low fertility? How effective are they? Says quote. In
the last three decades, sub replacement fertility has spread around
the world. One half of the global population today lives
(06:41):
in countries where the period total fertility rate is below
two point one verst per woman. East Asia, Southern Europe
and parts of Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe reached ultra
low fertility rates with the period total fertility at one
to one point four and family size at one point
point four to one point six births per woman born
(07:03):
in the mid nineteen seventies.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Right, And the information that was released in twenty twenty
three seems to only confirm these ideas, so that was
from twenty nineteen. According to the same Visualcapitalist dot com,
every country on the list has seen a decline in
birth rates in the last seventy years, with some declines
more stackering than the others. For example, China recorded forty
(07:25):
one births per one thousand people in nineteen fifty. By
twenty twenty one, that number had fallen to just seven
point six at an eighty one percent decrease. South Korea,
the twenty ninth most populous country in the world in
twenty twenty one, saw an even larger eighty six percent
drop in its birth rates since nineteen fifty. In fact,
almost every single country in this data set has seen
(07:49):
a double digit fall in their birth rates over the
past seventy years. Only the Democratic Republic of Congo has
seen a single digit percentage decline between nineteen fifty and
twenty twenty one. And we know what's happening with the DRC,
So I feel like those numbers are askewed, and the
list they show or talk about is quote a snapshot
(08:09):
of the CBR for the forty nine most populous countries
of the world at different years from nineteen fifty to
twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Just to as some context, right. The economists featured in
an article in twenty twenty three addressing the possible consequences
of the declining birth rate. The article says, quote, and
they're roughly two hundred and fifty years since the Industrial Revolution.
The world's population, like its wealth, has exploded before the
end of the century. However, the number of people on
the planet could shrink for the first time since the
(08:37):
Black Death. The root cause is not a surge in death,
but a slump and burse. Across much of the world,
the fertility rate, the average number of burst per woman,
is collapsing, and it continues quote. In two thousand, the
world's fertility rate was two point seven burst per woman,
comfortably above the replacement rate of two point one at
(08:58):
which a population is. Today it is two point three
and falling. The largest fifteen countries by GDP all have
a fertility rate below the replacement rate. That includes America
and much of the rich world, but also China and India,
neither of which is rich, but which together account for
more than a third of global population. The result is
(09:20):
that in much of the world, the patter of tiny
feet is being drowned out by the clatter of walking sticks.
The prime examples of Asian countries are no longer just
Japan and Italy, but also include Brazil, Mexico and Thailand.
By twenty thirty, more than half the inhabitants of East
and Southeast Asia will be over forty. As the old
dye and are not fully replaced, populations are likely to shrink.
(09:44):
Outside Africa, the world's population is forecast a peak in
the twenty fifties and end of the century smaller than
it is today. Even in Africa, the fertility rate is
falling fast.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
So of course, the reasons behind the lower birth rates
may differ all over the world, as does the possible solutions.
But according to the earlier article from UNFPA quote, among
the main drivers of low fertility is the incompatibility between
professional career and family life. In times of women's massive
post secondary education and labor force participation on the one hand,
(10:17):
and rising individualistic aspirations on the other hand, The inability
to combine paid work with child rearing often results in
childlessness or having one child only. This is closely connected
with persistent gender inequalities and housework divisions. For decades, societies
with strong traditional gender role norms have been continuously witnessing
(10:38):
very low fertility. More recent factors contributing to fertility decline
include the trend towards intensive parenting, as well as labor
market uncertainty and instability coupled with soaring house prices. And
though some narratives may try to point at feminism and
it is kind of true and the overall lack of
a desire for children in the first place as the
(10:59):
reason for declining, there's a lot of research showing that
desirability for children hasn't gone down at all. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I actually read an interesting article kind of relating to
this the other day about how a lot of parents
can only afford to have one kid, Like they want kids,
but they can only have the run. So there's this
like really big explosion of single only children. But that
puts pressure on them because, at least in the US,
a lot of times the children have to pay for
(11:39):
your parents when they get older, when they get sicker,
and so it's sort of causing this this really negative
effect of these kids not being able to afford that
and kind of getting really in bad financial situations because
they're the only child, which right, a lot of that
(11:59):
situation is messed up anyway, Like we shouldn't write our
medical system in the US is not good. Exactly, but exactly.
I thought that was interesting because I hadn't really considered
that before.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Well, I've definitely been told many times, who's going to
take care of you when you were old?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yes, me too, Exactly how are you going to be
all alone?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Thanks mom?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Thanks mom? Okay, Well, here's a quote from the Conversation
dot com about the US birth rates and some data
they had found during their research. Quote. We found remarkable
consistency and childbearing goals across cohorts. For example, if we
look at teenage girls in the nineteen eighties, the cohort
(12:40):
born in nineteen sixty five to sixty nine, they planned
to have two point two children on average. Among the
same age group, in the early twenty first century, the
cohort born in nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety nine
girls intended to have two point one children on average,
slightly more young people planned to have no children now
than thirty years ago, but still the vast majority of
(13:01):
US young adults planned to have kids, around eighty eight
percent of teenage girls and eighty nine percent of teenage boys.
We also found that as they themselves get older, people
planned to have fewer children, but not by much. This
pattern was also pretty consistent across cohorts. Among those born
in nineteen seventy five to seventy nine. For instance, men
(13:22):
and women when they were twenty to twenty four planned
to have an average of two point three and two
point five children, respectively. These averages fell slightly to two
point one children for men and two point two children
for women by the time respondents were thirty five to
thirty nine. Still, overwhelmingly most Americans planned to have children,
and the average intended number of children is right around two. Right.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And I think you and I have talked about when
we saw ourselves in early twenties, we really thought by
twenty five we would have two children. I had two
children in mind, had to be an even number. And
I just saw TikTok about that, like, because one of
them will be alone if activities are like if they
have to ride a plane and then you have to separate,
(14:06):
Like all these things about wanting to have either two
or four to make sure that didn't happen, and I
was like, yeah, and also like the middle child syndrome,
the fact that you don't want to have one middle
child of the three because that's too traumatic.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
At least have two so they can bond.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
That's a middle child.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Of course, I would not. I'd never plan to have
a big family. I also had said that it would
depend on my husband, like even being very much into
the like the Jesus world, I knew that if I
was doing this alone, Hellna.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Right, yeah, I mean that's another factor to consider in
this conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Right, But I really did think that I was going
to have that many children. And then as I get
older and older, and at this point it's almost almost
too late, I say, not really, but because like I
have friends my age who just had children on my
congratulations and they're all happy, and I love that for them.
But like up until recently, like the last three four years,
I could not have afforded. I was living with people,
(15:08):
I was actually having roommates. So there's no way to
me that I could have actually had a child to
pay for all the things and had a full time job,
and like the amount of responsibility to me was too
much and just the thought of it made me have
a panic attack.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, that's one of the things that frustrates me the
most when I'll see sort of the like millennials or
whatever generation that's younger is rooting everything. They're not buying houses,
they're not getting kids, Like we can't afford it, right,
I mean, this is different. I'm sure plenty of people
would like to, but actually it's kind of a responsible
decision to be like, you know what, I can't afford it.
(15:49):
It's sad if you want kids and you can't afford them,
but it is thought is going into it of like Okay,
I can't do this right now.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And I'm sure many people will be like, we turned
out fine, we weren't rich all these things, But then
you also have to be like, yeah, but there's also
a lot of trauma, not a lot of people who
are not okay, So just don't forget that far, Like, yes,
for sure, absolutely, and this is not even adding on
to like health issues. So if you are a disabled
individual trying to manage all of that on top of like,
(16:21):
there's so many points to this conversation that we even
leave out because all of these studies and all of
these incentives and I should have put this at the top,
are very much based on a heteronormative CISC couple and
an ablistic idea that they are perfectly able to have
children without complications. So because yeah, one of the things
that we are not going to mention, and here's the
(16:41):
medical expenses, which should be one of the number one
things because well, the US being the biggest problem with
like subsidized healthcare. That's not anyway mumble mumble, because the
healthcare sucks, but when we talk about that in general,
that the cost of all of that is also a problem,
but we don't mention that here and again when we're
(17:02):
talking about these who they are actually going after especially
and these countries they're going after a heteronormative couples because
we don't mention it. But like Japanese government is not
focused at all on the queer community, as in fact,
it's almost like doubling down saying that they don't need
rights at one point. So just a reminder, Yeah, and
(17:26):
along with all the facts found in the UNFPA article.
It speaks to the fact that many couples are waiting
much later to have children, which may limit the amount
of because they intend to have they write, compared with
earlier eras people today start having their children later, these
delays also contribute to declining birth rates. Because people start later,
(17:48):
they have less time to meet their child bearing goals
before they reach biological or social age limits for having kids.
As people wait longer to start having children, they are
also more likely to change their minds about parents and yes,
that's where I am y'aw.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
But they also note that the reasons stated earlier were
very much linked to the decline. The article continues, but
why are people getting a later start on having kids?
We hypothesize that Americans see parenthood as harder to manage
than they might have in the past. Although the US
economy overall recovered after the Great Recession, many young people
(18:24):
in particular feel uncertain about their ability to achieve some
of the things they see as necessary for having children,
including a good job, a staple relationship, and safe, affordable housing.
At the same time, the cost of raising children, from
childcare and housing to college education are rising, and parents
may feel more pressure to live up to high intensive
(18:47):
parenting standards and prepare their children for an uncertain world.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, all of that is absolute reasons for me that
I decided I did not want to have children. Now
we've gotten the general numbers and facts, so we've got
a good base. We're going to look more closely at
some of the countries that have been making headlines when
it comes to this conversation, and we will start with
the original idea behind this episode of the Asian countries,
(19:13):
and we're only focused on three majors. Don't come at
me because there's so much more out there, but we
were just trying to get examples, and we're talking about
the women who've made a not so subtle statement, you know,
Like we've talked a little bit about the feminist movement
in South Korea and the activists who've been fighting back
against at an administration that has been using every misogynistic
(19:33):
tactic to reverse a lot of the work that seemed
to be happening once upon a time when it came
to moving forward in feminism, and that included the four
be movement. Check out our Feminists around the World episode
we talked about. But just as a quick reminder, the
four BE movement is the four No's which originated in
twenty eighteen twenty nineteen. According to like being public and
(19:55):
stands for no sex with men, no child we ring
no dating men and no marriage to men. And although
this is a simple version of what the overall movement means,
the stance is to amplify the stark disadvantage is placed
on women in the nation, as well as the overall
abuse of nature of the patriarchal state of the country.
And this with the attributing factors we mentioned before, it's
(20:16):
not surprising that South Korea is currently the number one
country with the lowest current birth rate in the world,
and it's been like that for about three four years well.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
According to a recent BBC article published this month, South
Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world and
it continues to plummet, beating its own staggeringly low record
year after year. Figures released on Wednesdays show it fell
by another eight percent and twenty twenty three to zero
point seventy two. This refers to the number of children
(20:48):
a woman is expected to have in her lifetime. For
a population to hold study, that numbers should be two
point one. If this trend continues, Korea's population is estimated
to have by the year twenty one hundred.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Right, And I don't know where North Korea comes into
the play with this. I'm guessing it doesn't because the
statistics aren't from there. But that's that's that's drastic and honestly, yeah,
like we said, this may be one of those situations
where they could blame feminism for the declining population because
(21:21):
the people they've had enough For many of the women
in Korea, they have learned that having a child could
not only be adding on more responsibility, but also cost
them their job, their independence, and overall their freedom. According
to the same BBC article, they say the Korean women
know too much. Essentially, One twenty eight year old woman
who worked in HR said she's seen people who were
(21:43):
forced to leave their jobs or who were passed over
for promotions after taking a maternity leave, which had been
enough to convince her to never have a baby. Korean
women are the most highly educated of those in the
OECD countries, and yet the country has the worst gender
pay gap in a higher than average proportion of women
out of work compared to men. Researchers say this proves
(22:06):
they're being presented with a trade off have a career
or have a family. Increasingly they are choosing a career,
and for those who would gladly choose family over career,
they can't afford to do it. The article continues. More
than half the population live in or around the capital Soul,
which is where the vast majority of opportunities are, creating
(22:28):
huge pressure on apartments and resources. Soul's birth rate has
sunk to zero point five p five, the lowest in
the country. Then there's the cost of private education. While
unaffordable housing is a problem the world over, this is
what makes Korea truly unique.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But housing isn't the only problem. The price for education
for children also adds up. Here's another quote from the
age of four. Children are sent to an array of
expensive extracurricular classes, from mass and English to music in taekwondo.
The practice is so widespread that to opt out is
seen as setting your child up to fail, an inconceivable
(23:08):
notion in hyper competitive Korea. This has made it the
most expensive country in the world to raise a child.
A twenty twenty two study found that only two percent
of parents did not pay for private tuition well ninety
four percent said it was a financial burden.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And y'all, if you've watched any K dramas, you know
this is true. Like people will get real really like
people have died according to the K dramas.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Trying to get these kids into these classes, and like
it's it is like, from what I understand, people private
tutors who are acclaimed they're almost as famous as K.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Pop people like wow.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Education is very valued and we've kind of always known
this to the point that it became a joke. But
it is costly, which I'm like, huh. I always think
I'm like, what, I've been one of those two that
didn't make it. Probably oh sad me. And of course
this all comes with the expectation that women will continue
their level of housework and child rearing at the same
(24:11):
time is helping with income.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
That BBC article continues.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Over the past fifty years, Korea's economy has developed a
breakneck speed, propelling women into higher education and the workforce
and expanding their ambition, but the roles of wife and
mother have not evolved at nearly the same price. And
still I think there's a whole thing about in laws too.
And who takes care of them, and.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It's the wife.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Like it's this like over the top understanding that you
are taking over not only your own household but his household.
And in some respect that tradition is still pretty steeped.
And the government they've seen it coming, and instead of
seeing that they need to actually talk to those that's
affected by it. But the most they try to throw
(24:56):
some money at their problems.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Of course, here's the quote from a March twenty twenty
four article published in Time dot com. President Moonjayan launched
several policies to try and incentivize women to have more children,
(25:22):
including cash incentives for families. Under the scheme, every child
born from twenty twenty two onwards receives a cash bonus
of two million, one one eight hundred and fifty US
dollars to help cover prenatal expenses, in addition to a
monthly payout that increases every month until the baby turns one.
Other incentives include free day care, subsidized pay during childcare leave,
(25:45):
and even group blind dates for public servants to try
and match make couples.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Oh yeah, so thating can help.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
So. In fact, the country has spent an estimated two
hundred billion US dollars to try to fix this problem
as of today hasn't resulted in any changes, and they've
tried other solutions, including hiring nannies from Southeast Asian countries
and paying them below minimum wage gross gross, trying to
(26:15):
incentivize exempting men from military services if they have children
when they're at the under the age of thirty, which
sounds like a misdirect but apparently according to another study,
men are part of the big problem too as well,
maybe because they can't find women. I don't know, but
I said that another texts like this, But it wasn't
(26:37):
until just recently that the politicians, and I mean like
twenty twenty three, that the politicians realize that maybe talking
to the citizens, specifically women or those who can give birth.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
May be helpful.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And yeah, in the past year they have been going
around the country talking to the younger generations.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
But yeah, still no results as of yet that we
have seen or talked about.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I haven't seen any published saying that that's helping and
anybody's changing their minds because.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Most of them are not.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And China has been going through a similar decline. Of course,
the history of China and babies not good not good.
In nineteen eighty, the Chinese government implemented the one child policy,
which was so strict that women were forced into situations
they did not choose for themselves. According to an article
written for the Global Institute of Women's Leadership, a Chinese
(27:26):
researcher wrote, for thirty five years from nineteen eighty to
twenty fifteen, the Chinese government maintained a one child policy,
subjecting millions of women to force contraception, for sterilization, and
forced abortion, and there have been stories about the level
of cruelty the government would use in order to maintain
that one child policy, including killing, the killing of newborn infants,
(27:48):
kidnapping of women if they had were on their second
or more pregnancy, or even taking family members of the
pregnant person as hostages if that expected person was hiding.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
So they went all out, and it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Was in twenty sixteen, a year after they dropped the
one child policy, the government increased it to two and
it now has risen to a three child policy, allowing
people to have up to three children now right, but.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
There are many who are so traumatized by the past
policies that they still live as if they are still
under those policies. Here's a quote from an article from NPR.
The policy permeates through Chinese society in other, sometimes unexpected ways,
because many prioritized having a son over a daughter. Orphotages
(28:39):
experienced a surge, and baby girls who are abandoned or
put up for adoption. Singles Day, China's biggest online shopping
holiday akin to Black Friday in the US, is a
recognition of the many bachelors who are unable to find
partners in a gender skewed society.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
So that could be part of the reason.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
It could be, but the understanding is also there's still
kind of a preference to men two boys, which doesn't
make sense. Yeah in the greatest scream of things. But
I digress. And though they have changed the policy since
then and now seem to recognize that there may be
a problem with the fact that the population has declined,
(29:17):
they have been second largest for the past few years,
India has been number one for the most populous, which
seems to be a blow to the nation's ego. That
surprised me. I have figured that's what they wanted, But okay,
but their new policies hasn't changed the birthway.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yes. Adding on to the imbalance of gender and the population,
the cost of living in Gender inequality has also affected
the numbers, much like South Korea. According to CNBC, as
more women attain higher qualifications and rise up the ranks
in the workplace, they expect their husbands to earn more
than them. In twenty twenty, female students accounted for almost
forty two percent of doctorate degree enrollment and a significantly
(29:55):
higher number of women enrolled for a master's degree than men.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Satista de that has showed, yeah, and of course, so
that means people have been choosier when it comes to
finding their man, to the point that people have been
throwing money people, governments and corporations haven't thrown money at
men to make them look better for mating purposes.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Like I don't know how else to say that.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I mean, you're right, but it sounds so like documentary is.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
This is where we're going at and just as a reminder,
but this still is the expectation that women will take
on all the household work, and that women have less
rights and will be responsible for this entirety of growth
of populations essentially, and of course, add to that the
rising costs of housing and supplies, as we talked about earlier,
(30:51):
along with the increase of children allowed per household, the
government and even corporations have tried to add incentives for
people to have more children. Trip dot Com has tried
to help with the situation. Specifically, according to that same
CNBC article, Trip dot Com is one Chinese company that
takes pride in trying to encourage more women to have children.
In an organization where more than half of its thirty
(31:12):
thousand employees are women, the online travel agency came up
with its own solution to encourage women in the company
to have more children, and a part of that insteadive
is offering subsidies to help with the cost of freezing eggs,
which actually kind of smart to me, Yeah, because they
do talk about the fact that that timeframe that women
specifically use to get their career and all that stabilized
(31:36):
is that you know, I guess the critical time, but
it's a short time, so they can actually help them
pause that process. Maybe that will increase in the likelihood
that they will have.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Children later on. They were talking about this.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
And they help by giving this money, which ranges from
fifteen thousand dollars to three hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Again, kind of a smart idea.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I might have done that, to be honest, not now
with the IVF stuff in the US. No, but you know,
like this is like to me, it's one of the
smart plans.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
I saw a flyer once at my university. I was like,
we'll pay you this much money to freeze your eggs.
And I thought about it, but then I was like, why.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I had people who said they want my eggs. Oh,
they would pay you for your eggs. Really, you know,
you know you.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Didn't get those?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Get those.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
That's the only one.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I saw a flyer. I don't recall any.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I got an email like oh okay, okay, Like I
was like what.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And I thought about it for a split seconds, not
gonna lie, like, but they wanted white babies, so didn't help. Well.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
The government has tried a few tactics as well, going
back to China. According to Time Quote, Chinese government also
tried to introduce new policies to encourage couples to have
more children, enhance childcare, and improved housing facilities for families
with children. Recently, some academics have even proposed taxing couples
for having too few children while making access to abortion
(33:11):
and divorce harder and yeah, pay attention to the last part,
limiting access to divorce and abortions right.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So, the Japanese birth rate has also been greatly declining,
very similar.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
To South Korea.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Many have chosen not to have children due to the
inequality and gender rights and opportunities, as well as the
overall financial burden of having a family.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
According to financialpolicy dot com quote, today Japanese women on
average have just one point twenty six children, far below
the rate of two point one children per woman considered
by demographers as necessary to maintain a stable population. Up
to forty percent of adult Japanese women and fifty percent
of men will not have children in their lifetime according
(33:53):
to government estimates.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Again, much like South Korea, a lot of the reasons
boiled down to the cost of living, cost of education
for children, and according to the same foreign policy dot
com article, the cost for childcare alone in Japan for
two children is about half the earnings of a couple
who have full time incomes, and the wages have barely
been raised in the past thirty years, so significant amount
(34:19):
and just the overall lack of interest in being married,
although that could also have something to do with the affordability.
So here's another quote from Foreign policy dot com. It's
not just the desire to have children that's diminished. Surveys
point to waning interest in relationships and sex, especially among
young people. For Haruku Sakamato, a researcher at the Department
(34:42):
of Global Health Policies at the University of Tokyo, this
too is an economic story. Young people, she explained, simply
do not earn enough to plan for the long term,
making stable relationships seem far fetched. She says, while in
the past people have explained Japan's low sex and relationship
culture as steaming from interest in anime and fictional characters
(35:03):
that supplant interest in real life relationships, is actually an
economic issue. I just really like that they blamed enemy
on this. So and the article continues. Michika Uita Balmer,
a political scientist at Syracuse University in the US who
studies social isolation among Japanese youth, said many young Japanese
(35:25):
women would like to get buried, but they simply cannot
afford it. Survey data shows that young people don't have
the financial stability, necessarity build themselves as a viable partner.
The result is that people don't get married, and because
Japan has the lowest rate of children born outside of
marriage among developed countries, this also means they are unlikely
(35:47):
to have children. So in twenty thirteen, they had what
was considered women nomics policies, which quote promise to integrate
women into the workforce and propel them to high pain.
But the policy hasn't solved women's economic problems. So, like
many other nations, women were not only responsible for the house, home,
(36:11):
and children, but they also took on the financial responsitivety
abortion as well.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Here's another quote in the Age of Women Nomics, Japanese
women are caught in a double bind. High living costs
mean they are no longer expected to stop working once
they have children, yet because they still bear the brunt
of domestic work, even Japan's generous parental leap benefits, which
few men choose to take, are not enough to insulate
women from the pressure to drop out of the labor
(36:36):
force after having children. Even highly educated women who leave
the labor force after having children struggle to eventually reintegrate
back into it. Some fear that in case of divorce,
they'll be unable to stay afloat financially, in part because
of the stark ginger pay gap.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
So the Japanese government has followed suit with many of
the East Asian countries. Late twenty twenty three, the Prime
Minister are announced and estimated twenty two billion dollars to
childcare spending in order to help the birth rate, and
he plans to increase subsidized housing for families with children
and flexible work hours.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Of course, as we've.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Seen, money may not be the answer to all the problems.
But hey, I guess he's trying, I will say, and
we're going to talk about this in the sec better
than what the US is doing. And though we just
used again these three countries for the examples, the steady
(37:33):
decline of birth rate has been seen throughout the world.
Taiwan has spent over three billion dollars trying to encourage
people to have more children, including more parental leave and
large increases in salary. And in fact, one presidential candidate
offered a free bet if they have a child, not
gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
That could have worked on me too.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Then you have to pay for the pet I know, I.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Know, I don't know that he added money to that,
but I.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Was like, that's an interesting time.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
I've got a pit for the it in and according
to the Vox article titled you can't even pay people
to have more kids quote, other countries have tried direct
payments to parents. Russia began offering a one time some
of about seven thousand dollars to families with more than
two kids, while Italy and Greece have experimented with per
(38:20):
child baby bonuses. In twenty nineteen, Hungary introduced a loan
of about thirty thousand dollars to newlyweds. If they have
three children, the loan is forgiven.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
I actually saw something. I think it's Sweden.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Y'all correct me if I'm wrong that literally are trying
to bring people.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
In with children.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Oh wow, tooth and they'll give you and then you
have to live there for ten years and they'll give
you money and incentives.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I had a friend that moved to Sweden. I should
ask her, what's okay.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I think it's one of the s yoking countries. So
y'all tell me Switzerland Sweden? And yes, again, declining birth
rate includes the US. So we said this earlier. The US,
the birth rate of the population is declining. Here's a
quote from that same Fox article, which is mentioned in
(39:15):
the US, the birthrate has been falling since the Great Recession,
dropping almost twenty three percent between twenty seven and twenty
twenty two. Today, the average American woman has about one
point six children, down down from three in nineteen fifty
and significantly below the replacement rate of two point one
children needed to sustain a stable population.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
And as we mentioned previously, many people have decided to
wait to have children. And though the birth rate has
declined overall, the birth rate for people thirty five to
thirty nine has actually increased. According to Census dot Gov.
In the thirty year period, it has increased by sixty
seven percent. Here's a bit from cnn dot Com from
the article titled fertility rates dip People are having babies
(39:57):
later the stage of birth rates in the US. Uote
birth rates have declined in most states across the US
in recent years, while women are having babies at an
older age. According to new data released by the US
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it continues, birth
rates among women in their late thirties and early forties
rose in the last decade, and the birth rate among
(40:19):
women over forty five also exceeded one birth per one
thousand population for the first time in more than a decade. Meanwhile,
the teen birth rate dropped to a record blow in
twenty twenty two, there were thirteen point five births for
every one thy teens ages fifteen to nineteen, down from
thirteen point nine in twenty twenty one. According to the
new CDC data.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Thirteen damn yeah, those numbers are so high, and I
feel like they are purposeful, especially now. And though there
was a small increase during the initial pandemic and lockdown,
nothing shows any actual signs of the race on the
on the incline. Here's a quote from the Scenn article.
Despite the short term plunge and comeback during the early
(41:04):
years of the COVID pandemic, the race have been consistently
trending down. Nearly three point seven million babies were born
in twenty twenty two. According to the CDC analysis of
birth certificates, the overall fertility rate was fifty six point
one births per one thousand women ages fifteen to forty four,
holding relatively steady from the rate of fifty six point
three in twenty twenty one. After a sharp drop in
(41:26):
twenty twenty, birth rates rose in twenty twenty one, the
first increase since twenty fourteen, but the numbers still reflect
the declines that began before the pandemic.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Okay, of course, unlike the.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Other countries, US hasn't been publicly talking about the population
decline or even talking about policy changes directly related to
having more children, such as giving money to parents directly
helping childcare or the such. Although they did alter some
tax deductions for children, they made higher tax deductions and
(42:08):
gave a little more incentive, but I definitely did not
seem as it was about population control or population increase.
But much like how we mentioned China has been doing
more restricted when it comes to abortion access and divorce,
the US has implemented the same practices, but using alternative
languages for it. So during campaign runs for the Republican Party,
(42:30):
a couple of significant figures may have said the quiet
part out loud. In twenty twenty three, Nebraska Republican state
senator used an old racist theory to argue for the
ban on abortion. According to New republic dot com quote,
Senator Steve Erdman decided that the best argument in favor
of the band was quote the Great Replacement theory, which
(42:53):
the Southern Poverty Law Center defines as quote racist conspiracy
narrative that falsely asserts there's an active, ongoing and covert
effort to replace white populations in current white majority countries.
Our state populations have not grown except by those foreigners
who've moved here or refugees who've been placed here, Ermann
told the chamber.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
And it continues.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Ermann also says that all of the aborted fetuses could
be working and filling some of those positions that we
have vacancies in response to jobs. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So before we continue, so here's a look about the
Here's a quick look at the Great Replacement theory from
a PBS article. Simply put, the conspiracy theory says there's
(43:39):
a plot to diminish the influence of white people. Believers
say this goal is being achieved both through the immigration
of non white people into societies that have largely been
dominated by white people, as well as through simple demographics,
with white people having lower birth rates than other populations.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
And how does all of that equal to combating of
the declining birth rate. Here some more from Senator Erdmann.
According to Vice dot com, our state population has not
grown except by those foreigners who have moved. Here are
refugees who have been placed here. Why is that? It's
because we've killed two hundred thousand people. These are people
(44:16):
we've killed. Erdmann said during debate after lamenting that if
abortion had been illegal, that would have resulted to more
people who could be working and feeling some of those
positions that we have vacancy.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
And he's not the only one to say these things
out loud. Seapak, Republican leader, also made a point to
use the same rhetoric. He said, if you say there's
a population problem in the country, but you're killing millions
of your own people to legalize abortion every year, if
that were to produce some of that problem is solved,
Schlap said, you have millions of people who can take
(44:51):
many of these jobs. How come no one brings that up.
If you're worried about this quote unquote replacement, why don't
we start there, start with allowing our own people to live.
And again, he's not the only one that Ohio representative
says something similar as well. This narrative has been around
for a very long time, as in fact, it's I've
actually been around also targeting the Jewish community as well.
(45:14):
But this has been a constant rhetoric. And if you
want to talk about our episodes when it comes to tradwives,
our episodes when it comes to the Red Pill, our
episodes when it comes to religious trauma, they're all linked
in this same conversation with this white supremacist rhetoric that
we have to bring more white people in to bring
(45:35):
in power, that they've lost power, so therefore they need
to have babies, and that abortion ban is the key. Unfortunately,
these tactics have worked enough to sway what is happening
within the US, but politics alone is not what is
controlling this narrative. So are the corporations. The economic threat
of a population decline has become clear to many experts
(45:56):
around the world, but not all corporations have come to
this same understanding at this point, Like we said, trip
dot com and Japan has kind of figured it out.
They're like, okay, we need to help with this. There's
other companies that have been adding to that. We know
some of the companies here in the US, and usually
the smaller companies have been like, we'll give you a
(46:18):
longer maternity better maternity lell we have free childcare here,
but not everybody Amazon Prime example, could care less.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
That was an accidental fun.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I didn't even know.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
A lot of the corporations are seeking to strip even
more rights from their employees. Many many encouraging discrimination for
those who become pregnant, and in fact, recently federal courts
ruled that the Quote Pregnancy Workfairness Act was unenforceable against
the state government and it's in its agency which this
(46:53):
act protects accommodations for pregnant employees in the workplace and
allows workers to sue employers are failing to do so.
It prohibited employers from denying employment opportunities or forcing pregnant
workers to go on leave if alternative accommodations were possible.
And this is from the Texas Tribune dot org, which
is where all of this was coming out from. So
(47:16):
that is significant to know that that was on a
federal appeal.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
And it's very.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Scary because not only are we being told you have
to be pregnant if you were to conceive, if you
were to get pregnant, do you have to remain pregnant?
And go and give birth, but that you have no
rights and they're not going to help you. We talked
of there are several articles that we talked about within
the great Replacement theory, and these senators who literally kept saying, oh,
(47:45):
social Security will help, which we know is dwind linked
very quickly and it is pretty much non existent for
any of us who want to retire at this point.
I believe the boomers were the last to be able
to really get anything from the Social Security administration. There's
so much that we have to look at when we
talk about this, because there it goes hand in hand
(48:07):
when we talk about the declining of birth rates and
as where again we're looking at other countries. We're looking
at European countries who have a little better incentives and
that kind of are willing to pay a lot more
and it's costly, as me and will say, to make
it better. There's many who won't do that here in
(48:29):
the US. And in fact, again they're doing the opposite
by kind of leaning towards China's policies, which is really
funny and ironic right now to me, with trying to
force a population boom, and it's working, and it's working
and that's what's scary. But again, this seems to be
(48:49):
have your cake and eat it to situation for both
the politicians and corporations. And I will say some activists
in the US have talked about similar tactics to those
in other countries. I know those the Sex strike during
a one point that was in talks talking about not
having children, talking about not getting married, talking about some
remaining single, which you know, I get it. But with
(49:11):
what is happening, and as rights continued to be stripped,
it will be likely that the decline will only continue.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Because people are fed up.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah. I have at least two friends who have pretty
much said the shop is closed, like they're just and
it breaks my heart because like, if you want to
have sex, if you want to have kids, it shouldn't be.
But they've been like, as long as this, what is
this is the situation, I'm not going to do it,
(49:45):
which feels very upset. It's very upsetting, but it also
feels kind of funny because I don't think that's what
they wanted the outcome to right of these things. But
that's what I've heard from multiple people.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
It's like, okay, right, cool, I will be interested to
see what happens in the next couple of years, because
we know that practancies due to rape has increased, which
is horrifying. But at the same time, I don't know
if it's just me, but I have getting more and
more disturbing pieces about children's deaths, and some of them
(50:20):
like literal I've just watched one, I guess the crime
thing where a mom was so flustered because she could
not financially provide, she did not trust her for the
children's father to take care of them, and so gave
them the best day and then unfortunately murdered them. I
(50:42):
guess it's side and that's not the only case I've
seen as of recently, I've seen more and more. I
feel like this may honestly be a thing that we
see because.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Women are not seen.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Again, we've talked about the fact that the abortion band
is only going to kill women, but I don't think
of people that can estimate the route of desperation that
many people will have from these situations.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Again, same thing with.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
Forced labor, force birth for those who have been molested
and raped. Similar similar to that conversation of the desperation
that you're not going to understand I'm horrified by what's happening.
But I don't think any of these tactics are going
to push to an increase in birth the way they
think it will.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Now. I don't think so either. There's so much, like
really fundamental systemic things that have to change. I believe
for people to.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Write again, hello, having childcare, having money to feed yourself,
having money to have a bedroom for your child, those
are all things that are dictating whether or not we
want to have children.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yes, yeah, seems pretty obvious, you would.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Think, But I feel like twenty twenty three South Korea
really like, oh, I guess we should talk to those
who can give birth what.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
Maybe we should ask them?
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Maybe we should maybe we should ask them. And then
we have literally gone backwards in the US on how
to handle it again again the pretenses we're saving lives.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, yep. Well, well we have a lot of episodes
about this. As you said, Samantha, it is related to
a lot of other issues. This is another very intersectional thing.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
But yeah, Happy International Women's Day.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
Happy International Women's Day, Samantha, Good luck everybody of Gosh,
I'm glad to spend it with you. I'm glad to
spend it with you too, and I'm glad for anyone
who joined us on this day or any other day.
If you have any thoughts about this, please let us know.
You can email us at stuff at your mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
(53:05):
at mom Stuff podcast or on TikTok and Instagram at
stuff I Never Told You. We have a tea public store,
and we have a book you can get wherever you
get your books things. As always to our super producer Christina,
our executive pducer Maya, and our contributor Joey, thank you
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told
You is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app
Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Season 5
Saskia Inwood woke up one morning, knowing her life would never be the same. The night before, she learned the unimaginable – that the husband she knew in the light of day was a different person after dark. This season unpacks Saskia’s discovery of her husband’s secret life and her fight to bring him to justice. Along the way, we expose a crime that is just coming to light. This is also a story about the myth of the “perfect victim:” who gets believed, who gets doubted, and why. We follow Saskia as she works to reclaim her body, her voice, and her life. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at betrayalpod@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.