SMNTY Classics: The Feminism of K-Pop

We break down the terms, history and feminism of K-pop, and how it has taken over the world, the impact it has had, the fandom of it, and the future in this classic episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and ofcome stuff I
Never told your production iHeart Radio. And today we are
bringing back an episode that we should we should come
back to. I think I I yeah, I think you

(00:25):
would agree to math. But it was about the feminism
of K pop.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yes, and I go into a history because obviously this
was for me as well, about the good and the
bad of K pop and feminism behind it. There's a
lot going on in K pop world right now between
the K pop demon Hunters and BTS coming back uh
and going full throttle with their tour y'all. I don't

(00:50):
know if you listen to the new album, but I
dig it. But they also have a lot of controversy
as well. But all of that to say, I thought
it would be a good time. We thought it'd be
a good time to bring it back to kind of
brush up on some of the backgrounds of Cabo.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yes, absolutely so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this
is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan Never Told
you production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Annie, can we talk about boy bands and girl bands?
Are you ready for this?

Speaker 1 (01:37):
I don't know, I hope so.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
I think you will be ready. But as a precursor.
We talked about boy bands in the US and what
was your favorite boy band?

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Well, I guess it was Backstreet Boys. I didn't really
I didn't get as caught up in all of that.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
You were a little younger for that.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, I like the most of the music I listened
to at a young age, like the first CD I
bought this Jimmy World, Green Day and the Phantom Menace soundtrack.
Like if that gives you any.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
So you were cool, you were one of the cool kids.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
I was not cool. No, But I think of like
the you know, ncinc Versus Backstreet Boys, right debate. I
was on the Backstreet Boys side.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Okay, so you have been with my older sister, which
is really funny because typically the older generation goes with
the older people who got into the boy band would
probably say Backstreet Boys. And I do mean, like, my
sister was in the era of new Kids on the
Block and I was too, and I really did like them.
But I was super young for that. But yeah, I
was an n Sync fan. I was in high school

(02:42):
when Enzync came out, like right before I think it
was right as I was graduating. But I really enjoyed
that music more so than the Backstreet Boys. I am
team in sync. I will say that for myself, but
I really enjoy a good like pop band because one
of the first CDs outside of No Doubt for me
was Spice Girls and I back then, of course, I

(03:04):
was embarrassed because I really wanted to be the person
that says, yeah, I definitely only listened to Green Day
and Bush and all that, and of course I loved
No Doubt, but like saying Spice Girls was like, oh,
get that, keep that under wraps. We're gonna keep that
under wraps. But now we all know they are a delight,
and we still we celebrate them today as you should.
I feel like the gen z ers understand and have

(03:27):
kind of come back to love them as they should.
So I'm a fan. I'm a fan, so of course,
being that when I've been listening to K pop recently,
I know everybody knows my new obsessions I have, like, yeah,
I enjoy this. Okay, let's talk about this. And because
I've been wanting to talk about this and I've been
geeking out about it, We're gonna do this topic and

(03:49):
I'm forcing you into this, and it's long and it
is somewhat dark of a subject. So let's go ahead
and put a content warning. Y'all, we are going to
talk about eating disorders, abuse, and suicide in this conversation.
If you know much about K pop, I have a
feeling you know about that as well. So we can't
ignore that I sent you some homework you did. I

(04:10):
slowed it down because this has been in the making
for a while, but it's a huge outline, be a
huge one. So what do you know about K pop?

Speaker 1 (04:19):
I know that people love it, uh, and it has
a lot of fans. Most of what I know is
through you and our shared friend Marisa, who had I
told you a lot of the videos you sent me
she had shown me before. I actually think we were
together when that happened. I feel like vaguely we were.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Oh watch the videos videos, Yes, yeah, I think the
majority of the videos that we watched were BTS because she,
Yeah and her mom are BTS fans. Hey, Marissa. Because
there was another K pop group who was made up
of all women who actually are like kind of queer icons, uh,
I love them, called Mama Moo. They were here and

(04:59):
there was an opportunity for someone to go and I
don't go to shows because I'm like, I'm too old.
I don't want to stand up. I don't I can't
deal with this. I don't want to deal with traffic.
I sent a Marissa a message and she was like,
I don't know who that is. So I think she
kind of leans into the BTS world, which is perfectly
understandable because they are kind of what you think of
when you think of K pop now, and we're going
to talk a little bit about them. But she she knows,

(05:21):
she knows, and her mom apparently knows a lot.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, a concert, I love that, la, Yeah, I love that.
I love all about that.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
So we are that's what we're talking about today is
K pop, and we are talking about how it's influencing internationally,
and because the majority of fans are women, when we're
talking about the impact they have and the implications, we
are talking about it in the perspective of influencing more
women and girls than anything else. So even though you

(05:51):
may be like, why is this about feminism, this is why,
and when you hear about the topics, especially in the
dark topics, it's something to remember. So we're gonna go
with the history and definitions because that's what we do,
so and we have a lot of them. I did
cut them down because I'm like, this is unnecessary. This
is unnecessary because I don't know why. I just love
the fun facts of it all, I guess. But the

(06:13):
history of kpop idols is much older and more complicated
than I had thought. So we were going to take
a look at the background of K pop and the
world around it before we do anything else. And I
think before we start, we need a quick overview of
the definitions related to K pop. Keep this in mind
as we go through the ins and outs of kpop
because we're probably gonna be referencing it or talking about it,

(06:33):
and it's international growth and popularity, so.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Worse to know.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
And these are the definitions we're giving you are exactly
off of these pages. So we're giving you the reference
now from Hello to how you dot com and StyleCaster
dot com. So they're direct definitions. So pretend like we
put quotes in.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
All of these.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Okay, So starting simply with k pop, which this one
came out of the main webster is popular music originating
in South Korea and encompassing a variety of styles aka
Korean pop music.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Paul you the Hungkol or Korean language term for the
Korean wave, literally meaning the flow of Korea. This term
refers to the increase in worldwide popularity of South Korean
media since the end of the twentieth century. Idol a
word used for K pop stars. Idols can be soloists
or members of a group, but the word is often
used to a K pop artist who has debuted and

(07:31):
is no longer a trainee and an entertainment agency trainee.
Before K pop artists are idols and more on that later,
they're trainees. Trainees are students at K pop entertainment companies
who have either auditioned or been scouted, who spend several
years training in dancing and singing before they debut as
a soloist or as part of a group. Along with

(07:52):
singing and dancing, many trainee programs also include lessons in
languages such as Korean if the trainee is an already
fluent English and Japanese.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
Right so, the word debut is often used in K
pop to refer to a trainee who has transitioned to
an idol by releasing their first official single, either as
a soloist or in a group, or performing in public
for the first time. Then there's the Big Three. The
Big Three refers to the three big entertainment companies that
have launched the most successful acts and believed to have

(08:21):
majorly influenced K pop, which are SM Entertainment, which has
groups like Girls Generation, Super Junior, Shine, JYP Entertainment which
has twice Wonder Girls and miss A and Stray Kids
more recently, and then YG Entertainment and side note. You
might be wondering why this would be of interest in

(08:42):
the K pop industry. These three labels control a lot
of the content, the publicity, and even the popularity of
individuals and groups, and are almost as famous as some
of their groups.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Wow m HM. And within the groups which often have
several members, BTSs seven like Exo have up to twelve
members and one group had twenty one members, there are
specific roles and titles given to them and in groups
sometimes referred to as idol groups, which is a band
of two or more performers that perform, record and essentially

(09:14):
live together. Each member takes on a persona and a
role within the group. Depending on the size, there can
be a leader, main lead and sub vocalist, main lead
and sub rappers, main and lead dancers, visuals including the
face of the group in the center and the mockne okay.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
So with that, let's talk about the fan base and
the words we hear in regards to fans or anti
fans within the group. There's lovers and haters, and there
are specific terms for different groups of people in the
K pop world, and we'll start with Fangirls are fanboys,
which we talked about in our Fangirls episode before, so
fangirl or fanboy. These terms can be used as nouns

(09:57):
to describe someone who expresses strong passionate feelings passionate about
K pop or K drama, especially in regards to their
biases and favorite groups. As a verb, a fanboying and
fangirling are usually demonstrated through uncontrollable physical and emotional freakouts
in reaction to scene, hearing, touching, or smelling a bias
or favorite group that is really specific. Anti fans so

(10:22):
anti or an anti fan is someone who hates a
specific idol or group. Some antis will go out of
their way to discredit the idol they hate by creating
fake rumors or finding evidence that diminishes an idol's talent,
so they put just as much energy as a fan, essentially,
but to ruin them. There's also saysungs, which refers to
fans who have crossed the line and are closer to stalkers.

(10:45):
These are fans who invade idols privacies or make them
feel uncomfortable or unsafe in some way.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Then there's bias, a fan's absolute favorite actor or idol,
whom they will fiercely support and keep track of no
matter what content they produce. Fans pick one BYI from
their favorite group and usually only have one bias at
a time. Bias ruiner or a wrecker an actor or
idol who is revealed in a new light or newly
enters the scene, altogether making a fan question their devotion

(11:12):
to their original bias. So there are some of the
in depth definitions you might need to know as we
talk about the K pop industry and the people who
love or love to hate it and its effect on
international audiences and society.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
So as we look at the history of K pop,
but it might be surprising to know that the idea
of Korean popular music and idols have been around for
a long time. Some of the earliest ideas can be
found in the nineteen thirties with the Jagori Sisters who
debuted in nineteen thirty nine and the first idols to
go abroad and had performances featured on shows like The
Ed Sullivan Show not once, but twenty two times. Was

(11:58):
the Game's Sisters who laid down the basis of K
pop music, and there were several more groups that would
come along until the eighties, made up of.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Mostly sister groups.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Surprisingly so, in the eighties and nineties we had what
you would consider the boy or girl groups we see today,
with performances that were accompanied by fancy choreography and the
nineties incorporating rap into the music.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Which brings us to what is known as the first
generation of idols and K pop groups. Here's a quote
from Lafilm dot Edu about the first generation. Once the
K pop stardom recipe was discovered, genre bending music, attractive performers,
fall less appearances, and intricate choreography. The first generation of
K pop stars ushered in Hot is considered to be

(12:42):
the first true kpop idol group because the group was
highly manufactured and made up of trained pop stars. They
released the song Candy in nineteen ninety seven, and it
would become a bubblegum pop hit in Korea and the
information according to Wikipedia says the first generation I groups
are usually groups of approximately five people, each of whom

(13:03):
divided their roles into lead vocal, sub vocal, dancer, and
rapper while singing on stage. Their synchronous choreography, known as
group dance, was more sophisticated compared to previous dance music,
but at the same time included point choreography that teenagers
could easily imitate. Musical performances were done only for two
or three songs in the album, the title song and

(13:25):
follow up song, and these songs were produced with music
videos that showed each member's characteristics. After several months of performing,
the singers took a break and resumed their career with
their next album. This system became the basis for the
second and third generation idols. The first generation did have
a lot of controversy. The same Wikipedia page rights first

(13:45):
generation idols lost popularity in the two thousands. They often
lip synced as they performed, with a focus on choreography,
and most of the audience recognized that the songs heavily
relied on digital techniques to correct the vocals of the
idle singers. As a result, many people began to question
the authenticity and competency of the singers. In addition, a

(14:05):
series of controversies had erupted in contracts with idle members
and adjustment of profits, and the idle training system relied
on terrestrial broadcasting while the music market was being converted
into digital centers.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, so the second generation is y two K. After
the decline of the first generation, the agencies tried some
new ways, and many of those new ways were ways
to make money quote. The second generation idol groups usually
consisted of six or more members, formed a group in
a group called a unit, and they ran group and
unit activities at the same time. The agencies tried to

(14:40):
manage their aisle groups more thoroughly than the first generations.
To prevent those problems, they regularly evaluated trainees singing and
dancing abilities and ended contracts with trainees if their abilities
did not improve or were significantly inferior. They also put
on emphasis on personality and dismissed trainers whose behavior was controversial.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
And though the major entertainment companies had already been established,
it was at this point the Big Three were highlighted,
and they are still the top moneymakers in the K
pop realm. The beginning of hollw could also be attributed
to this generation, largely in part due to the beginning
of social media outlets like Twitter and Within the second generation,
there were two categories. Here's the quote from creatrip dot com.

(15:23):
The second generation idols were divided into two categories. They
were the record idols and music idols. Items with a
large fandom and low mainstream popularity were labeled as record idols.
In Idols with a relatively smaller fandom but large mainstream
popularity were labeled as music idols. In Korea, male idols
were usually record idols and female idols were music idols.

(15:46):
Regardless of which category they belonged to, it seemed certain
that the second generation idols were loved by most Koreans overall.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
So then we come to what many of the non
K pop diehards may know more about, which is the
third generation idols, which does include BTS and Black Pink
and for me, Exo, who kicked off the new generation
with their hit Growl Again, this is my first true
introduction to what I know is K pop now and
though there isn't as much distinction between second and third generation.

(16:17):
The massive usage of social media at this point helped
the international interest in K pop, with groups being featured
through content on YouTube and navver v which I think
is a Korean thing. Companies pushed a more personal look
at the different groups. Here's a quote from that Wikipedia
page we would talked about earlier. The Idol group's marketing
strategy had become more diverse due to social media, which

(16:39):
has led to the emergence of unprocessed, self produced content
on sites such as YouTube, Africa TV, and v app
rather than through TV programs. Idol members also began to
post on social networking services to get closer to their fans.
In terms of planning, the quote localization strategy expanded not
only through releasing albums in different country or performing in

(17:01):
different languages, but by including foreign, non Korean members directly
into groups. So also of note, we are seeing more
groups writing and producing their own music in this generation.
So BTS has been credited with producing and writing their
own music for a chunk of it, which has been
a criticism from the previous generations of K pop.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
And to add to all of that, entertainment, companies capitalized
on the love of fans. They started selling merchandise, including
photo cards, fan events, the usage of competitive reality shows
that have you invested before a group is even formed,
or if that's what they want you to think anyway.
They also understood the importance of the female gaze with

(17:42):
groups like Mama Moo and Red Velvet. They have utilized
the idea of girl crushes, which they might do through
things like attire, like many will wear suits and tuxes.
As one girl group said, their idea is quote to
be girls seen from a girl's gaze, and as the
fourth generation is rolling out, we are seeing more and

(18:03):
more fallow suit.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
And yeah, that was actually something that we don't talk
about into this, but I will say a lot of
the articles talk about how sexuality really has nothing to
do with it. Oftentimes you will see, uh, if you
see a gay man or a gay men, they love
the women groups as much as cishetero women do. And
then a lot of the gay women or lesbians love

(18:27):
the male groups as much as cissetero groups do. So
it's kind of like it doesn't matter. They just love
who they love. It's kind of interesting to see because
they do and they don't play the masculine and feminine
roles as much. In K pop, you'll see that they're
a little more especially when it comes to like male groups.
It does seem like they're a little more effeminatee to some.

(18:47):
Some like they're very pretty. It's untally how pretty they are,
but so are the women.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
They're very pretty.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
So that brings us to the newest generation, the fourth generation.
Here's what Nocturnal dot com has to say about the
newest generation. Any group who made their debut in twenty
eighteen or twenty nineteen was considered to be a part
of the current fourth generation. The fourth generation shows kpop
at an unprecedented skill that we have never seen before.
Groups are debuting and immediately gaining millions of followers on

(19:15):
music videos and going on showcase tours around the world.
And the article continues. Within the influx of new groups
and the lack of boy bands and girl bands in
the West, since notable acts like One Direction and Fifth Harmony,
k pop has been able to take over and found
a new sense of popularity throughout the global pandemic. Something
that differentiates K pop from the typical teenage pop group

(19:37):
is the amount of time and production that goes into it.
Some idol groups like Straight Kids in seventeen are also
labeled as self producing because they take part in writing, producing, mixing, choreographing,
and doing many other things. These all rounder groups are
ensuring that they cement a place for themselves globally and
need to be recognized for their hard work and legitimate

(19:59):
artistry instead of a teenage craze. So they're trying to
make it more legits the kids, as the kids would say.
But yeah, So it's interesting to note all of that,
as well as the fact social media like TikTok has
really picked up even more so the popularity of K

(20:21):
pop groups because not only do they have dance challenges
and like more and more interaction fans are able to
produce fan content things like fan cams where they just
literally find their their bias as we talked about, and
then do a collage essentially a montage for these people.

(20:42):
But it really they do a great job. I will say,
they do an amazing job. I will also say I
believe in the second generation fans were called cannons because
they carried around professional cameras to shows. Yeah, and they
made like they made an incredible photograps of their favorite fans.

(21:02):
It was interesting, like the it is so professional is absurd,
but the fans were the ones that doing it, and
they were carrying like thousands of dollars cameras to these shows.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
How times have changed?

Speaker 3 (21:15):
They all times of change, although I have seen people
competing with their phones and talking about how they do
better of filming.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Quite funny.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
But here's another quote from NPR about the fourth generation.
The last generation of K pop stars are no longer
bound by borders. They can debut or train outside of
South Korea and become just as or even more successful
in the West than they are back home. They also
continue to expand upon K pop's constant musical experimentation. And
actually that was one of the some of the articles

(21:44):
that I've seen that they no longer are catering to
Korean fans, that it is all about catering to international fans,
and a lot of Korean fans feel like this is
leaving them out because more and more K pop people
are doing songs in English, songs in Japanese, all of
these things. So the question is who is this actually
four and is the origin changing?

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Right? Well, if you're thinking, well, this sounds fun. How
do I become an idol? Here's the process according to
ninety day Korean dot Com.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Which is a great program by the way of learning Korean.
Not a sponsor, but I do use them.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Not a current sponsor. Not a current sponsor, so you
must first audition. Many of the stories we see of
K pop idols begin with auditioning for different companies and studios.
Are Kpop College, many companies who feed directly to the
major entertainment companies, and there are many different schools and

(22:41):
studios with hopeful beginners, some auditioning at the age of ten.
And you don't even need to be a current resident
of Korea or even Korean. Look at Lisa from Blackpink,
who is from Thailand. Second, all right, if you've passed
the audition, you become a train At this point you
are trained with a purpose and intensity. Not only will

(23:05):
you learn to sing and dance, you may be taught
how to act. You must take different language courses, such
as English and Japanese. And it's during this time you
are under scrutiny not only for your talents, but for
your looks, and are constantly evaluated physically, and based on
your talent. Stories of young trainees being weighted twice a
day and being heavily restricted with their food intake, and

(23:28):
even getting suggested to have plastic surgery if they don't
have a specific look. These are stories that we've heard,
and refusing can result in being cut. Interestingly, in Korea,
mail instructors are not allowed to tell the ladies that
they need to lose weight or placed restrictions on them
by law, and plastic surgery is seen as just a
regular thing. Here's a quote from Vice. One of the

(23:52):
most well known methods of transforming teenagers into pop stars
in Korea is with plastic surgery. In Korea, there's no
stigma attached having your face changed to better your public image.
The first most important thing is their appearance, says Kim Mansuk,
a former master trainer with YG who now runs his
own training center, sand Factory. If a girl has a

(24:15):
bad face and a good body, the problem can be
fixed with plastic surgery, he says, matter of factly. Often
a hopeful star will get a loan from a label
for fifty percent of the costs of the surgery, but
she'll have to pay it back.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
It's also During this time, you are most likely placed
in a specific position in a group and are then
assigned to train and live with this newly formed group,
and strict rules are implemented, including dating bands, which may
follow even after a debut and rise in popularity. According
to that ninety Day Korean article quote, while the South

(24:47):
Korean idol hopefuls are in training, they are expected to
maintain the same polished image once they have debuted. As
a part of the idol group. They should hold at
least basic etiquette and media training, but most importantly stay
out of trouble, namely dating and drinking scandals. Although luckily
for idols, the industry is changing to allow a little
more freedom with dating in some regards, just not right

(25:10):
as they debut. There may also be some pressure to
maintain a certain weight in some companies. There is I
don't know why they said they may because there is
point blank. However, as rigorous as a trainee system may seem,
trainees also get some freedom. It is still totally okay
to have social media accounts and use them as they wish,
of course, while keeping up with a positive image. They

(25:31):
could also work in commercials and music videos, modeling, gigs
and sometimes even act in dramas or movies while in training,
and then.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
For a selected few we get to the debut. According
to Wes, the number is very small quote. Out of
all the teens who train, it's difficult to say who
will make it, though it's certain that few will move
on to the big time pop scene. Kim says that
of his two hundred students, only about fifteen will be
signed with one of the three major labels, and he
says girls have a better chance than boys. Girls tend

(26:02):
to want to be k pop stars more and with
a bigger market for girls. He says, of course, one
of the reasons that girls may be more likely to
make it may have something to do with the mandatory
military service required for all Korean men, who have to
serve for two years between the ages of eighteen to
thirty five, which was recently changed from eighteen to twenty
eight due to the success of BTS, and there are

(26:23):
currently two members of BTS serving the required time. Also,
there is no real timeline for a trainee to train.
Some may train for years and some for only a
few months, and according to k poplife dot Com quote,
once a trainee has been deemed ready, they are then
given the opportunity to debut as part of a K

(26:44):
pop group. The debut process involves the creation of a
new group and the selection of members who will make
up the group. The selection process is highly competitive, with
only a handful of trainees being selected to debut. The
newly formed group then begins the process of preparing for
their debut, which includes recording their first album and rehearsing
for their first performance.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Right, so, now that we have the fundamentals of kpop,
let's talk about the people who loved them. And the
audience is vast and diverse and has had different race
of growth all over the world. So we're gonna break
it down. The K pop has been around for decades now.
The international popularity is fairly new, probably a couple of decades,
but you know, still fairly new. It's going to where

(27:25):
you're from, even in the Asian countries, but the popularity
has spread vastly. According to reports, the biggest fan groups
of kpop actually are outside of Korea, with China having
the highest number of fans. But I know, at one
point when there was this whole conversation because uh, there
was the skirmish between China and Korea. The Chinese government
banned capop for a little while, so I don't know

(27:47):
how that affected anything. But according to Billboard dot Com,
as of twenty nineteen, the Korean Foundation has tracked at
least a ninety nine point three million fans across the
globe who are associated with Korean entertainment related fan club
and at least seventy two million are based in Asia.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Now.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
According to a more recent report breakdown, the numbers are
like this, eighty four point three million Hallyu fans in China,
sixteen point eight million in Thailand, thirteen point three million
in Vietnam, thirteen point two in Europe. And these numbers
is from twenty twenty, with report showing a thirty seven
percent increase last year, so most likely higher now. So

(28:27):
obviously that ninety nine point three is low. It is
I think I saw around one hundred and fifty million,
if not more, probably way more so. Finding statistics for
North America was a bit difficult, but according to one
report from Korean dot Net, when it comes to Halou altogether,
in twenty twenty two, the US, along with Canada and

(28:48):
Argentina had the highest increase in popularity with a whopping
one hundred two percent increase from fourteen point six million
to twenty eight point nine million fans, and a majority
of the increase is thanks mostly to K pop. According
to another survey done on Reddit, many of the respondents
were from North America and they made up fifty two

(29:08):
percent of the fandom. Again, Reddit may be more of
a US thing, though, I don't know. Yeah, so that
might be why.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Well, you can see I read It episode for more
about that, which needs to be updated actually probably, And
the majority of fans do seem to be women, holding
it around seventy or more percent, with the average age
around twenty three to twenty four years old. According to
the Reddit survey we mentioned, forty percent of the respondents

(29:37):
were in the age range of twenty five to thirty four,
and not surprisingly, it is those with more disposable incomes
that make up a large part of the growing industries.
Conventions like k Con, which according to their site, is
quote the world's largest fan celebration of Korean culture and music.
We launched our flagship Los Angeles event in twenty twelve,

(29:58):
expanded to New York and twenty five fifteen, and have
since created events in Japan, Thailand, Mexico, Australia, UAE, Saudi
Arabia and more welcoming one point for eight million fans
spanning thirty three events in twelve regions, and it had
around nine hundred thousand attendees last year and has brought
more in person experiences and experiences in general for all

(30:20):
of these fans, with the average age of the attendee
being in their mid twenties. And it possibly is because
of the locations that we just listed, but the attendees
are predominantly not Korean, and though the age range does
keep it at a more younger adult side, the fans
over thirty are committed and at the aforementioned convention there

(30:42):
was even a panel titled the Secret Lives of K
pop Fans over thirty. Fan groups who often labeled themselves
as ajumas sort of translated as missus ma'am or anti
are their own form of anties. One group from the
Philippines called themselves the Titas of BTS and as bands
like BTS who are still a favorite around the world age,

(31:05):
the fans age with them right.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Of course. The origins of K pop is based in
South Korea in the times of no Internet and going analog,
the fans relationship was different. According to one report, at
the start of the generation of k pop idols, fans
even had access to home addresses and locations, and everybody
thought this was normal. It was during this generation that

(31:39):
color representation for each group became a thing like, you know,
I think army bts are purple. So they that began
in the first generation also chanting names of their favorite idols,
and deep seated rivalries between fandoms formed. And during this time,
idols who are not liked were not only bullied, but
sent death threats and sometimes unpleasant gifts like dead mice, razors,

(32:03):
blood and a good deal of that was often sent
to women who may have been rumored to date another
male idol, and not surprisingly, this was most isolated to
the Korean community because it was typically local during the
first generation and those who could be considered say songs
and anti fans have been around for a while as well.

(32:23):
Their presence have put idols and fans on edge. Stories
have come out about the intensity of the love or
hate of both fans and anti fans. Idols have been stalked, threatened,
and even physically harmed different stories like one idol being
poisoned with super glue in his drink, causing him to
be hospitalized while at a show performing, and then there's

(32:44):
a more recent one of a BTS member being sent
food delivered food because they found his address and him
being threatened on social media to the point that other
members docks the person who threatened him. Interestingly enough, and
reasons may vary, such as the dating rumors we talked about,
as well as just being in a group that they
may feel as a rivalry to their favorite groups, Saysungs

(33:06):
who love their idols a bit too much have also
made many of them nervous and even threatened. Incidents of
stalking to the point of causing a car chase slash
car wrecks, to ripping off of clothes to fans sending
messages in menstrual blood have been brought up to point
out the level of toxicity that the fandoms can have.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Here's a quote from a raptler dot com article talking
about the ugly side of fantom ash Shells and Katie,
the host of Spill Thesoji Podcast, have been fans of
kpop groups since two thousand and six. Throughout there more
than a decade of following idol groups, they've witnessed several
instances of celebrities being put into harmful situations because of

(33:47):
their fans. The list includes calling the idol's personal phone numbers,
hacking their social media accounts, stalking their idols, group overcrowding
at airports, and in more extreme instances, can't be outside
their idols' dorms or houses, installing secret cameras, placing recording
our tracking devices at hotels or in cars, sending disturbing

(34:08):
gifts or fan letters. A female fan reportedly sent a
love note written in mentrual blood to Ok Taysion, a
member of K pop group two PM, and even attempting
to kidnap them. SNSD's Kim Tejan was dragged away in
the middle of a performance by an obsessed fan, although
it should be noted here that there are more fans

(34:29):
who often stand to protect their idols. Here's another quote
from that Rappler article, and it's about how the fans
will go to that for their faves. Generally, fans would
strongly voice out their opinions and call out whoever needs
to be called out across several social media platforms. Ash
said they would also mass email the company for investigation
or legal action against the perpetrators. Usually there is a

(34:53):
unity against unhealthy behavior, but there are instances when the
opinion is divided because of differences in perspectives. As active
a community as celebrity fandoms, issues tend to circulate fast,
with every fan chiming in with their opinion. But when
it comes to keeping their idols safe, Rees said that
the majorities still know when to put their foot down.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
But it isn't just that the fan bases try to
protect their favorite fans, but they also will do what
is needed to protect society as a whole. Instances of
fandoms like the BTS Army, overtaking racists and sexist hashtags
dominated during heated times, such as the movement for the
Black Lives Matter and shutting down of websites that are
seen as oppressive, or even registering for hundreds of thousands

(35:34):
of tickets to Trump rallies so it would be empty.
So here's a quote from the Washington Post article about
the power of K pop fans in American politics, and
so K pop fans have emerged as empowered, socially conscious
globally minded LGBDQ friendly and attentive to issues of racism
and discrimination. Because in their multi ethnic countries such as

(35:55):
the United States, fans are often ethnic minorities themselves. Social
media has exis eleted existing fan dynamics and made them global.
Twitter has given fans around the world a chance to
observe effective online campaign tactics, all of which can be
applied to causes beyond K pop. Now digital narratives congregate
on Twitter, TikTok, and Twitch, expanding the arena of K

(36:16):
pop fandom. As the Black Lives Matter movement generated massive
attention after the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody.
K pop fans on Twitter, acting on their own but
inspired by the advice groups such as BTS to speak
their own truth, began changing their screen names to reflect
their support of BLM. Shared appeals to donate to Beilfunds

(36:37):
or show up for March's appeared back to back with
links to K pop media and photos evincing thirst's desire
for the attractive young stars. Now that these fans have
flexed and the world has seen their power, the real
question is what campaign and goals will they choose next.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
But uh, that brings us to the conversation of how
different fan groups are treated so total transparency, we know
that racism within K pop culture is very present. Though
there is a sizable number of fans from the black community,
the level of treatment for these fans, whether it's from
the other fan members or even from the idols themselves,
are not equal. Stories of mistreatment and abused by black

(37:19):
K pop fans are common. In fact, there are stories
coming out about black fans being docked within the fandoms.
A Refinery twenty nine article called when Black K pop
fans are Terrorized Online? Who Listens describes different instances about
looking into this about when fans have been harassed, threatened,
and doxed. They write, K pop has long reference to

(37:41):
black music, fashion, language, and beauty when done with innovation
and talent. This quality has won many groups black fans.
But while the majority of K pop musicians and fans
do it respectfully, some prefer to strip black people from
black culture. This disrespectful appropriation has contributed to an unjust
sense of ownership. Anyone who disagrees is overly sensitive and

(38:05):
thus is a fair target for abuse. Among stand communities,
there is an appropriation to abuse pipeline. According to May Santiago,
a PhD candidate and cultural studies who notes that racist language,
online harassment, and cyberbowling is all perceived to be an
extension of how devoted a stand is to the object
of their fascination. Their chosen media figure is God and

(38:27):
they're the disciples. If anyone dares question the integrity of
such iconography, all bets are off. She said. This is
particularly hateful when a critical user is black or brown.
Under this warped logic, any criticism comes from a malevolent place.
So even though black fans have been instrumental in helping

(38:47):
their idols learn and evolve when it comes to cultural appropriation,
some stands consider these learning moments to be insulting, an
offense worthy of punishment.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
A and that article continues, says in a study conducted
by The Fighting Stripes in twenty twenty, a site founded
in twenty twelve to give Korean Americans a platform to
talk about what they love, ninety three point six percent
of the participants reported feeling as though black capepop fans
tend to receive more backlash for calling out instances of
cultural appropriation within kpop and were more likely to be

(39:18):
threatened with doxing. That's consistent with the rest of the Internet,
where black women are disproportionately vulnerable to online harassment, which
we've talked about at length, including with Bridget and it's
not gotten much better. Many black capop fans are seeking
safe spaces for themselves as many continue to deal with
these types of harassment. In another article from Girls United

(39:39):
dot Essence dot com, they write, there is no denying
that non black fandom spaces can be racist at times,
with black fans having called out digital racial violence over
the years. In July twenty twenty one, black fans of
Inhipen were attacked on social media for saying that the
member he sung allegedly mouthed the N word while listening
to Sizza's Love Glory. The majority of the abuse that

(40:02):
took place on Weavers, an app where fans can connect
with their favorite kap pop artists like Engenes, experienced so
much stress and racist abuse that a protective account, the
Black Engine Protection Team, was formed to monitor and report
any anti blackness, and there have been allegations of idols
being racist as well. One idol was accused of purposely

(40:24):
ignoring his black fans, while others have been caught using
derogatory terms as we kind of mentioned above, although some
try to excuse it as ignorance. I do have opinions
about this, but let's be honest here, a chunk of
the idols have been either born or raised outside of
South Korea. If not, their producers, managers and execs should

(40:47):
be able to educate them before they go internationally. I
do have a lot of that. We do know that
there are two specific terms for I and me and
you that sound close to that word as well, So
there's a little bit like backlashes if you if you're
ignorant of those words. So there's a lot to be
said about this controversy. And yes, I do remember the
mouthing the rap not realizing what they are saying, but

(41:11):
again that's just an excuse and that needs to be
corrected point blank. And oftentimes it seems that there is
very little repercussions for racist incidents. In fact, it seems
dating and partying is seen as more of a problem
by industry standards than being racist.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
And this also leads to the problematic use of black culture.
Just recently, one girl group has been heavily criticized for
their usage of black hair styles such as box braids
and almost caricture level outfits that are reminiscent of nineties
hip hop, even warranting a slapping face emoji from hip
hop star Anderson Pack, which once again has brought up

(41:52):
the topic of the constant cultural appropriation from key pop
groups and idols.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
So there are many articles seeing the repeated question why
do they continue to use black culture and styles but
continue to not give credit or respect to the black community. Also,
I would ask who was allowing this again and not
vetting these things as twenty twenty three, If you're aware
enough to put Black Lives Matter posts out, but aren't

(42:18):
not aware enough that taking credit or trying to make
money off of culture without understanding it, I mean, what
are you doing?

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Accusations from black producers, writers, choreographers and so many others
of not being compensated or not even being credited has
been rampant in the industry. In a Guardian article, they
write about a specific incident. SM Entertainment is one of
South Korea's three largest entertainment companies. It is credited with
producing the first K pop idol group Hot in nineteen

(42:48):
ninety six, which establishes the SM performance style that the
brand still employs today, a combination of impressive visuals, dance, rock, rap,
and hip hop that took inspiration from Black America. An
artist of the MTV generation, songwriter and producer Micah Powell
attended six SM songwriting camps between twenty fifteen and twenty eighteen.

(43:09):
At one camp, he wrote a song called Devil and
created the dance move to go with it, which he
then showed to SM executives. The entire staff lit up,
Powell says of their reaction. Devil became the lead single
of SM group Super Junior's twenty fifteen album of the
same name. When Powell watched the music video for Devil
for the first time, he was shocked to see that

(43:30):
his dance move, a hip tap and high clap combination,
have been used as part of the song's chorus without
his permission, without credit or compensation. Powell's background vocals on
the track had also been used without payment or credit right.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
And they did the bare minimum and after a lot
of backlash again, we talked about the top three. This
is one of them, their billion dollar company. So the
constant usage of black community's content has brought division in
K pop fandom, making the black K pop fans feel
more isolated. Stans who excuse artists by using the term

(44:06):
appreciation instead of appropriation allows room for continued ignorance within
the industry. There are fans who have taken action, including
using blackout tactics and calling for boycotts among some groups
who continuously abuse the appreciation slash appropriation, but has also
led to the harassment of those fans as we mentioned earlier,
and there have been groups who have taken steps to

(44:28):
correct these actions. Groups like BTS, who have been outright
in their usage of black culture and their music, has
taken steps to undo some of their past mistakes, as
well as groups like p One Harmony who have openly
acknowledged the role of AAVE in their music. In the
interview in the US, leader Kiho addresses the issue openly,
saying quote, I believe it is a responsibility, and I

(44:50):
also feel like if you're going to have that big
of a platform, you need to be able to respect
and appreciate all cultures without appropriating them. He continues. Whenever
it comes to our or music or whatever, it's always
a sensitive topic. That we always have to think once,
three times, four times about in every step of the
way visually or musically or the language itself said Ko,

(45:11):
while other ONEH members not in agreement. Obviously, there's a
aave and a whole bunch of other cultural stuff that
is very sensitive and so we need to respect that.
And I feel like it's a responsibility too. So I
feel like it's something that we are always thinking about
and taking action about. And hopefully more groups, more and
more groups will start putting in an effort in learning

(45:32):
the difference of appropriation and appreciation. But again, currently we're
not seeing in it across the board.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah, and while we look at the not so good
side of kpop, we have to talk about other controversies
within the industry, including the many scandals that have affected
groups and have some people even saying to boycott the
industry altogether. So we've talked about the unrealistic beauty standards
we often see in South Korea, whether it's weight, skin color,
are just overall appearance, and for the K pop stars

(46:13):
it's even worse. Stories of trainees being told to only
eat rice or their diets being so restrictive that other
members sneak food in for them. It's a big concern.
Many of the fan sites not only give details like
birth dates and signs, but they will give height and
weight for many of them. And though everybody is different,
it is disheartening to see a young woman who may

(46:35):
be five foot seven weighing ninety five pounds and being
called chubby are not meeting the standard of the music industry.
In a research paper about the effects of K pop
idols on Korean beauty standards, they say this about the
dieting culture. Another way K beauty standards can be harmful
is they can lead to extreme dieting, which leads to

(46:56):
other outcomes like poor health, depression, and eating disorders. Since
the slim is a part of the standard, idols may
be forced to a diet that causes them to lose
an unhealthy amount of weight in a short period of time,
which is usually before a new song or album is released.
In an Insider interview with the K pop group Great Guys,
member Ho Rung says that they quote don't have much

(47:18):
time for eating and aren't free to eat what they want.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
And with this type of damaging influence, it has made
an impact in Korean culture. Here's a quote from another
article written for the waveclinic dot com. For several years,
media outlets have reported that many young artists have left
behind the kpop world in order to focus on eating
disorder treatment. Jenny of the popular eight member a girl
band Oh My Girl have bravely discussed her year long

(47:44):
treatment for an eating disorder and they continue. The extreme
diet and beauty ideals that have some cultural underpinings are
without a doubt harmful to both the K pop stars
and also to the tween and teen girls who eagerly
follow them. Restricting and extreme dieting, cosmetic surgery, and an
obsession with the perfect look have been synonymous with the
South Korean music industry. Here are some disturbing statistics from

(48:09):
South Korea. According to the Korea Jungan Daily, the number
of teens suffering from eating disorders in recent years has
shot up significantly. According to the Health Insurance Review and
Assessment Service earlier this month, the number of patients that
have visited a hospital due to anorexia and nervosa increased
by thirty percent over five years, from six hundred and

(48:30):
sixty one people in twenty seventeen to twenty two hundred
and one people in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty one,
six hundred and forty eight or seventy five percent were women,
with teenagers taking up the majority with twenty five percent
or four hundred and eighteen For the past five years,
excluding seniors in their seventies and above, female teenagers or

(48:52):
the largest group that were treated for anorexia and their
story starts with a young girl wanting to be like
an idol, so she starts herself to achieve the same look.
And of course, it is important to acknowledge that the
overall beauty standards, not only in South Korea, but in
countries like the US as well, have just as much

(49:12):
influence on the kpops or culture as does K pop
culture does on the overall beauty standards, so it's vice versa.
It affects both of us, both of them and the fans.
When fans are anti, fans feel like they're able to
comment on what they deem as attractive or unattractive and
use this as a way to harass and bully and idol.
They reinforce the almost impossible standard as if it should

(49:34):
be the norm.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
And these types of bullying have been lethal. Different stars
and idols have died by suicide after being relentlessly harassed
and bullied, as well as being depressed and unhappy due
to their careers, and unfortunately, the level of standards that
often push idols too far is correlated with the unreal expectations.
In another article specifically talking about mental health and kpop

(49:56):
from mindlessmag dot com, they write Sully from passes away
at age twenty five. She had been suffering from panic
disorder and social phobia, so it speculated that it was
through suicide, mainly because she was one idol who was
going against the norm, which led to cyber bullying. She
was one to openly discuss mental health, dating bands, social

(50:16):
issues and such. To add to that, apparently her attire
was not appropriate and this all built up over the
years and she could not take it anymore. It is
said that South Korea holds the highest rate in suicide,
whether attempted or not, and this mainly occurs due to
the overly high and even unachievable standards the environment that
the Koreans live in. Government figures show that suicide is

(50:39):
amongst the top cause of death for those under forty
in age range where life demands a lot for those
living there right.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
The k pop and Korean celebrity industry have had to
acknowledge the level of need to address the issues that
have been stigmatized for so long. In the SEMP dot
Com report, they write the Korea Creative Content Agency, which
supports pop culture artists, have reported that the number receiving
counseling rose from one hundred and forty six in twenty
twenty to six hundred and sixty one in twenty twenty two.

(51:09):
That figure relates just to those who admitted to having counseling. Libungchul,
director of medical insurance policy at the Korean Neuropsychiatric Association,
said pop idols were often isolated from support networks. They
are completely lonely. It's impossible for them to go to
communicate and get some consolation. Lee said. It is a

(51:29):
very dangerous situation, and with South Korea having the highest
statistics when it comes to suicide, the government has realized
that they needed to step in. Here's another quote from
the same SEMP article, which was written in twenty twenty three. Recently,
South Korea's Ministry of Health and Welfare announced a plan
last month aimed at reducing the suicide rate by thirty

(51:49):
percent by twenty twenty seven. The five year plan includes
more frequent mental health examinations, better counseling services for victims
of crime, and improved care for those who've attended suicide.
There are no details released on how much money will
be allocated. The Korean Suicide Prevention Center, funded and run
by the government, will also provide counseling and treatment support

(52:10):
for vulnerable individuals, and the government will fund medical expenses
starting this year. South Korean Prime Minister Hendokshu said during
a conference on suicide prevention in April. In twenty twenty
one alone, there were about thirteen thousand people who took
their own lives. It's really unfortunate. It is the nation's
first responsibility to prodict lives, and.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Much like society everywhere, Korea's attitude toward mental health is
typically not one talked about. Oftentimes, it's treated as if
it is an inconvenience or a fleeting stage. It is
very quickly dismissed and typically ignored until it's too late. However, recently,
more and more idols have opened up and talked about
their own mental health diagnosis and the importance of seeking help.

(52:52):
Groups like BTS and GOT seven have been openly talking
about their own struggles and trying to change the attitude
about mental health in society. A teen Vogue article talking
about K pop influence in mental health conversation rights. In
Asian communities, there's still a stigma about treating mental health issues.
Being depressed isn't seen as a real problem, and some

(53:13):
Asians are very wary of being perceived negatively if they
do seek outside help. But the article goes on K
pop stars efforts to raise mental health awareness and the
empathy from global fans allows us to recognize that some
issues such as cyberspace bullying, problematic ideals of masculinity and
femininity misogyny are cross cultural, extending beyond national boundaries. This

(53:35):
is Juwon Park, a cultural anthropologist. The empathy and encouragement
from fans as a result could be a source of rejuvenation, passion,
and energy. Music companies have also realized that mental health
is a global issue that having their idols speak about
mental health is not a minus to the business. The
transparency could create more engagement from the fan base.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
And there are other controversies outside of the mental health,
including sexual harassment within the industries. Stories from different groups
and trainees of being abused and harassed by their own
CEOs and managers, and idols who've been caught filming and
abusing fans or other members. One big scandal, the Burning
Sun scandal, involving several celebrities and idols, were just recently

(54:17):
sentenced and caused a wave of backlash for the industry
as a whole. Those involved were accused of rape, drug charges,
illegally filming, and embezzlement. So much fallout occurred, including raids
that would lead to over five hundred arrests, so it
was a huge deal in Controversy over the overworking and
underpayment of idols have been recurring as well. Past incidents

(54:40):
of idols being underpaid or not even paid at all
have many questioning the ethicalness of the industry. Recently, Black
Ping's Jenny was seen performing with an IV after having
to sit out of a couple of performances due to
COVID and at the same time, at the same event,
she had to be rushed off the stage because she
was not doing well. The group has been touring NonStop

(55:02):
across the world and many wonder at what cost newer
groups like New Gene, who have just started has brought
to light the same conversation about how young is too
young for someone to be an idol, and with acts
like New Gene and past controversy of another young idol,
the Korean government has finally passed a policy in hopes

(55:24):
to address it. From an Insider article, it says, on Thursday,
a bill to protect the underage K pop idols from
exploitation was passed in South Korea. The Culture, Sports and
Tourism Committee of the National Assembly passed the Popular Culture
and Arts Industry Development Act during uplinary session. Per South
Korean outlet Yon Hop. Also known as a lesung E

(55:45):
Crisis Prevention Act, the newly passed law aims to prevent
celebrities from suffering damages resulting from exploitative contracts by reinforcing
financial transparency. The act is named after singer Lee, who
was under a quote slave contract where he was never
paid for his music for over eighteen years of his career.
Per K pop news outlet Korea Boo, the amendment also

(56:07):
reinforced requirements aimed at protecting the rights and interest of
underage workers in the Korean entertainment industry by lowering the
number of working hours again per Jon Hopps, citing the committee.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
And a little more to explain what the amendment is quote.
Under the new amendment, entertainers under the age of twelve
are allowed up to twenty five hours a week up
to six hours a day. Those aged twelve to fifteen
are allowed thirty hours a week, while those above the
age of fifteen can work thirty five hours a week.
Both age groups are limited to seven hours a day.

(56:40):
In addition, the act prohibits any infringement of underage entertainer's
rights to education by forcing them to be absent from
or drop out of school per Yon Help. The South
Korean amendment also forbids any acts that may threaten the
health and safety of minors, which includes imposing an over
emphasis on physical appearance upon the children. Assaults, abusive language,

(57:02):
and sexual harassment are among the other prohibitions listed in
the act. Pop culture and arts businesses are now mandated
to designate a person in charge of youth protection who
will help to guarantee the human rights of young entertainers
or Yon Happ quote. This amendment will abolish the industry's
absurd practices behind the development of k content and provide

(57:24):
an environment where children and youth of pop culture artists
can pursue their dreams while protecting their human rights, said
Park Bogyin, the country's Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism
per South Korea outlet mail business. But as the article
states later, many production companies find ways to bypass these laws,
so it will be interesting to see how this affects

(57:46):
touring as well.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Right, and that does bug the question who was profiting
off all this hard work. Unsurprisingly, the industry has made
a lot of money, over five billion dollars to be specific,
and that's probably underestimated. The big three, YGJYP and SM
have made a hefty profit, and controversial things like dynamic
pricing has only increased the amount. These kpop entertainment companies

(58:12):
take ninety percent of the profit at the top, and
the K pop artists split the rest of the ten percent.
So if there's like seven members and you have what
maybe a million dollars, but then you get one million
dollars today, you know, like that's how or one hundred
thousand dollars and then you split it seven ways not
a lot to be honest, but some groups like bts

(58:33):
have better deals, so they were able to get stock
shares from their label, which was a smaller label at
the time, but they've now made a lot of money,
which is now known as hibe or big hit earlier.
But typically K pop stars are not that lucky, and
it's estimated that only five percent of the groups actually
go get beyond just idle status. Anyways, to that superstar era.

(58:53):
And by the way, for the trainees, they technically don't
get paid. Instead, they they're room and and all of
that stuff is covered, so they calculate and say they
get fifty thousand dollars worth of things I guess education worth.
But all obausly we heard earlier that they had to
pay for their own plastic surgery and such. So with

(59:15):
all that, what does the feature of K pop look like?
There are many who speculate that K pop may be
plateauing at this point. Perhaps it's the oversaturation of K
pop groups or the controversies that have come with the industry,
or even the loss of bts, which many filth is
actually the reason. And I know there aren't disbanding. They're
on hiatus, they're still in contract and they'll be back

(59:36):
after the military services, and there are a lot of
individual projects that By the way, if you've not listened
to August D Yungi, you should because it's really good
and RM it's really good. He does some things with
Anderson Pok and Erica Badu. You should go listen to it.
According to experts, there have been a slowdown in the market,
and one expert told NPR that BTS may have set

(59:57):
the bar too high. Here's a quote. The biggest influence
of BTS is that they increased K pop's dependency on
the oversea market and made it truly a part of
the global popular music market, says the Hutah, an associate
professor of George Mason University, Korea, who has studied the
globalization of K pop. And they transformed the entire K

(01:00:17):
pop industry in their wake. We raised our bar so high,
says music critic Kim Dehion about expectations for K pop
artists from both the industry and fans. An increasing number
of K pop groups are going on billbar charts and
holding large scale concerts overseas at a faster pace than BTS,
but their achievements no longer received the kind of nationwide

(01:00:39):
attention and celebration that BTS did in a sign that
success in the global market is now almost anticipated of
K pop idols. Yeah, but some of the experts say
this could just be a transition where K pop is
no longer a new thing, but again an industry that
will maintain and could never really disappear like they're going
to be here. So with different groups breaking records and

(01:01:02):
being first at many things BTS, Blackpink, Straight Kids and Twice,
it's doubtful it will go anywhere. But let's hope that
the transition we see within this industry is more inclusive
and better equipped to handle the care for not only
the idols but as fans.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Yeah, yeah, we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
And now you're an expert, Annie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Oh well, I don't know about that. We didn't even
we cut some stuff out, we did. It is more
for me to learn. Perhaps we'll revisit. And I would
love to hear from listeners. I have heard from some
of you about BTSH in the past. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes,
So please let us know if you have any thoughts
about this. You can email us at Stuffmedia Mom Stuff

(01:01:45):
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mosta podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We also
have a tea public store and we have a book.
You can pre order it at stuff you Should Read
books dot com and on Audible I Hear. Thanks as
always to your super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya,

(01:02:06):
and our contributor Joey.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Thank you all, yes, and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Thanks to you for listening. Stefan Never Told You is
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts in my heart Radio,
you can check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or where you listen to your favorite shows.