Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is any and Samantha and opome to stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We never told your prediction, but I heard you, and
welcome to another classic episode. Today we're bringing back an
activist around the world that's related to Pride Month.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yes, yes, well, you know we love anything intersectional, and
this is absolutely intersectional because we are coming back to
talk about the feminists five and just give you a
quick update, not too much. They are still very relevant
today when you'll hear who they are and what they've
done for the Chinese feminist community.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
And as in fact, the tenth year.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Anniversary happened not too long ago of their arrests, so
this is kind of like a catalyst of what began this.
And yeah, one of the acts us wrote on Waino
dot me, which is w a I n O dot me.
Lee Metza after getting married in New York. She is
currently there and with her partner and has founded the
(01:13):
Asian Rainbow Choir, which is a leading Chinese LGBT organization
in her community. Uh yeah, and they're at choir obviously,
and they actually performed not too long ago in New
York for New Years.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
We love to see it.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
She seems to be thriving and just continuing to be
a voice for many of the women in China and
the oppression that they are going through.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So yeah, enjoy this classic. Hey, this is Annie and
Samantha and welcome to stuff when they were told you
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
And welcome to activists around the world.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Today, we're going to talk about feminism in China, and
we're going to talk about a lot of things, but
we're pretty much focusing on twenty fifteen. And with that,
we couldn't talk about feminism in China without looking into
some of the women who've been pushing to advocate for
more rights for the Chinese women and queer community. And
today we're talking about the Feminists Five. So in twenty fifteen,
a campaign spread throughout the country to protest against sexual
(02:22):
harassment on public transportation, led by the Feminist Five. But
before we get in there, let's talk about the feminism
in China. When it comes to feminism in China, the
movement has been slow going, but many have stated they
felt it was getting more attention and more support today
than before. So the current government under Chi Jing Ping
with the Communist Party Congress of China have not made
(02:44):
many moves to show any type of support for women
in the country, as in fact, in twenty twenty two,
no women were appointed to the leadership of the Chinese government,
making it the first time in twenty five years that
there's no woman represented in the leadership role, which is
made up of twenty four party leaders that govern the
country for the next five years.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And ironically, she promised in a twenty twenty two address
celebrating the twenty fifth anniversary of the UN fourth World
Congress on Women to improve women's status by pushing for
gender equality and protecting the overall rights of women.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
But seeing the current state of the government leaders.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It doesn't seem as if he is moving in the
right direction to fulfill his promises. But the conversation of
the feminist government in China has been rising, and in
twenty fifteen, I thinks in part to the activism of
the feminist five and awakening happened within the country. But
before we talk about what they did, let's talk about
(03:40):
who made up the five right, And we're going.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
To go ahead and put a little asterix here. The
names were kind of hard to find to pronounce. We're
going to try our best to respect the pronunciations, but
Please don't come at us. If you want to correct
us kindly, then that would be that's fine, But do
we mean to us? Okay, we're trying our dust, so
we're going to start with Wu Rongngrong. Wu worked with
(04:05):
the Women's Rights Group in Urimping and founded the way
Ting Women's Center in hung Joe Wu studied at the
China Women's University, majoring in social work and working as
a feminist activist and advocate. And not only did she
work with different organizations that led many campaigns throughout the country,
but she also was the project leader of Beijing Yurngping
(04:25):
Center for Women's Rights Programs and worked with Beijing's Aji
Shing Institute an NGAA working for the rights of those
living with HIV and AIDS. And then we have Lee
Tingting or also known as Lie Matza Sorry y'all. Lee
has been a part of the activism world for a while,
including creating the Lesbian Community Trading Group in the second
year of her time at the university, which offered counseling
(04:47):
services as well as support for students. She was involved
with several public demonstrations, including one in twenty twelve where
she and two others walked down a shopping area wearing
bridal gowns covered in blood to bring awareness to the
issue of domestic violence in China, and again later demonstrated
in protest for the large lines for women's bathrooms by
encouraging women to use the men's bathroom, which is called
(05:09):
the occupied men's room. It also was to call out
the gender gap and privileges of the workspace.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Then there's Waiting Ting, who is also a queer and
women's rights activist. Wei was part of the Wuhan Rainbow
and LGBT Organization as well as becoming a director of
the LGBT organization Xiante. She also co founded the National
Bisexual Network in China. Wei worked as the project manager
at the Beijing Gender Health Education Institute, which was an
(05:42):
agency working to raise awareness in gender inequities, sexual diversity,
and sexual health.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And then there is Wangman.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Wang is a researcher about gender studies and has been
working for an anti poverty in Goo. She later participated
with the Occupy Men's Toilets movement. And then there is
Jung Truran also known as a Big Rabbit. Jung is
an activist and writer who was invited to join the
other four for the Occupied Men's protest in twenty twelve.
(06:11):
She also went on to help with the Bloody Bride's protest.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So now that we've met the women, let's talk about it.
On International Women's Day in twenty fifteen, the feminists five
were arrested for quote picking quarrels and provoking trouble.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
We love that, not the arrested part, but that title.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
The ladies had planned a protest event that would include
them and others handing out anti sexual harassment stickers on
the subway to bring awareness of the sexual harassment on
public transportations, but before they even started, all five women
were arrested and detained for thirty seven days. As the
women were detained, all of them were interrogated and threatened
to stop their activism. Lee was cursed and persecuted for
(06:50):
her sexuality as a lesbian. Her father was used against
her as she was forced by the agents to write
her a letter to convince her to stop her work.
Wu try to take the blame actually and convinced the
agents to release the other activists as she was the
founder of the Women's Center and at the time of
the rest, Wu was receiving the treatment for an illness
which she'd been in the hospital for previously, and then
(07:11):
she was immediately taken into custody and she was denying
medical treatment at that time.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
And Wu wasn't the only one with health conditions. Wong,
who had a heart condition at the time, was concerned
about whether she would be able to make it under
the stress and harsh conditions of Prisonhuang Wei and Jung
all had their classes confiscated.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I struggled with that.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Word before they were locked up and could not see
clearly during their detention, and Jung, who suffered from anxiety,
also had issues of hair falling out and assomnia. During
her detention, it was recorded that she had felt guilty
as if she was the one who thought of the
sticker idea. All but Wu were locked up near each other,
(07:50):
though she wasn't too far away. They said that they
were able to comfort each other during this time by
talking and singing with each other.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
So the rest of the Feminists five went international and
many public figures spoke out, including Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden,
and there was also a hashtag hashtag Free Beijing twenty five.
There was also support from the people around China as
In fact, women protested with masks of the Feminists Five
to show support, and then the women lawyers around China
also came together to reach out to the Department of
(08:32):
Public Safety and even launched complaints for the release of
the women, which actually resulted in the government prosecuting the
human rights lawyers, including the lawyer that represented Lee Wong Nu,
who would actually be.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Detained later on.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
But those Feminists five were released after thirty seven days
due to the international pressure around them. But the government
continued surveilling and monitoring the five women and most of
the women that have actually left the main part.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Of China right. So Lee went on to travel and
live abroad.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
She was able to deliver speeches and bring awareness to
the needs of those in the marginalized community. She studied
in England in the Human Rights Master's program at the
University of Sussex. After her studies, she returned to her
home in Beijing, and Lee talked about why she returned.
She said, quote the reason why I decided without hesitation
to return to China is simple. There is no escape.
(09:22):
We live in a time when every day we can
be disgusted by Trump. What's so disheartening is that people
are getting used to this awful world, staying angry and awake.
I realized that the longer I stayed in England, the
more I felt like I needed to return to China
as a feminist activist, a gay rights activist. Other than
returning to my own country, what better choice is there
when history happens, I must be present with this conviction,
(09:44):
I came back to China. Wei continued to work to
fight against sexual harassment in China even after the original
organization was shut down. She went on to open the
Guangzho Gender and Sexuality Education Center of the g SEC,
which was also shut down in twenty eighteen, but she
continued to push forward and launched a new program which
helps the victims of sexual violence. Chung has continued to
(10:07):
write as a freelancer. She also has continued to advocate
for the rights of women around the world. She was
a big part of the hashtag me too movement in
China and even wrote to President Trump about his sexist behavior,
which went viral online.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Right Wong struggled after her detention and was reported that
her life was quote shattered. The last report on her
activities show that she's gone back to the academic and
social work field. Wu as leader of the group, had
been through quite a lot during her detention and even
more so after she was released. She soon returned to
the academic field with her expertise in public interest related
(10:43):
to psychological counseling, and she was last reported to be
living in Hong Kong. And by the way, these updates
were twenty twenty, so of course I'm not completely up
to date. And I know that many of them have
done many more things, but it's not well known. I
think Lee is the most well known right now and
the loudest activists thus far. She did, I think recently
(11:04):
get married, not too long ago, a few years ago,
to her wife, So.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
That's beautiful to see. But yeah, there's not a lot
we know.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I believe one of the other activist's husband soon got
arrested for his activism as well. So there's a lot
going on obviously, and there's a lot of conversation. And
apparently there's been a thing where women in the smaller
villages had been kidnapped and forced to have children. There's
so many things in happening in China. Honestly, as bad
as that sounds it kind of sounds on par with
(11:31):
some of the things that's happening in the US when
it comes to women's rights. So we definitely want to
support and keep an eye out for the ladies and
the marginalized community in China as well. So in an
article written by Lupin, another Chinese feminist activist, talked about
the impact of the Feminist Five and even the aftermath
and the conversations that have happened since. She says, amidst
(11:53):
the challenges, the Feminists Five have not scaled back their activism.
On the contrary, I think the most remarkable thing the
last years is that despite not receiving due compensation for
their sacrifices they made, they did not complain. Instead, they've
been forward thinking from the very beginning, being creative and
exploratory as they seek ways to continue their work, whether
as individual activists, as freelancers, or even entrepreneurs. They have
(12:17):
found ways to pair their personal development with their social ideals,
and I think it's Goodton also mentioned there was a
huge controversy at one point in time because there was
all these supposed funds that was coming from in geos
around the world, but China immediately set a law saying
that they could not receive money unless those NGOs were
based in China, so they have no support and no money,
(12:38):
and this accusation that they made money was absolutely false
and probably a smear campaign, and they have since then
had no money since their release, really struggling to make
endst me and they kind of had this moment in
one of their articles that they felt like they had
to choose money over activism, which is not necessarily true,
but it's true. They have to live, so they can't
constantly be the martyrs essentially for a cause that it
(13:03):
sometimes has a lot of pushback and as that right now,
being pretty surveiled and watched by the government, so there's
a lot going on.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
A lot of these women have.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Won different awards, including being the one hundred Top Women
of BBC. We love that award and we will continue
watch and see what is happening.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yes, and as always, listeners, if you have any more
information about the people we're covering or what's going on,
we love hearing from you about it and any suggestions
you have for people we should cover in this segment
or organizations we should cover, you can email us STUFFI
and mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, or on Instagram
(13:42):
and TikTok at.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Stephmo Never Told You.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, Thank you Yes,
and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Stephaner Told You pprectionion of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
The