April 25, 2026 • 55 mins
With the decriminalization and commercialization of weed in some of the US, we've seen some very troubling marketing towards women (and blatant ignorance of the past). Friend of the show Joey stops by to go over the history, the issues and the positive potential of cannabis in this classic episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I hope for stuff.
I never told you a protection.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I hearted you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And today, in typical Sminty fashion, we're bringing back one
that's a little late, but it's it's timely esk, it's
close enough. And it was one we did with Friend
of the Show contributor Joey on the gendering of Wheed
because four twenty has just passed, which if you're interested,
(00:40):
we discussed with Bridget but local Atlanta icon killer Mike
his birthday is four twenty, and so that's what I
was thinking of that day.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I don't know his birthday or did he change it
to be his birthday.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I think it's his birthday, but I don't know. It
could be part of the mythos. And do you know
this conversation is still ongoing because I was looking into
it when we were thinking about episode topics, I was like, oh,
what could we talk about around this, And a lot
of it was an extension of the information that Joey
brought in this episode and also just when we're talking
(01:13):
about some legislation going on that's still ongoing. So please
enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is any and Samantha
I'm welcome to Stefan never told you a buction.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Iheartrad you.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And we are so happy to be joined on this
text day. Bye a good friend of the show, excellent coworker, Joey.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Welcome, Joey, thanks for having me. Super excited to talk
about taxes.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes, that's definitely what episode. That's what everyone loves talking about.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yes, yes, well we are talking about a tent pole
event kind of, but not taxes because as we record this, yes,
four twenty is coming up.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We have done past episodes on.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Some of the issues with four twenty if you want
to go back and find that and just like the
wead industry in general, and then do you want to
hear about the food side of it on saver go
check that out. But when you suggested this topic, Jerry,
I immediately knew what you were talking about because you
and I both have seen I think it's the same commercial.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I'm not sure, but yes, a lot, there's a lot
going around. Yes, So what are we talking about, Joey? Yeah, so, surprise, surprise,
We're going to talk about weed.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I wanted to talk particularly about some of the advertising
that we're seeing currently targeted at women and telling weed
or cannabis products, and some of the conversations that are
that are coming up because of that, and how it
just kind of an overview of the whole conversation about
women in weed and how how historically cannabis use has
(03:15):
been viewed in women and now kind of the conversation
now that's changing.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I like, how y'all are talking about this, And I'm like,
I have no idea what either one of you are
talking about. I have not been given any of these ads.
Oh if any government officials listening, I have not been
a part of those crew.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'm like, I don't know what, y'all. I would never.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, And I mean the conversation of legality and all
of that also plays into this, which is interesting. Quick
content warning up top, obviously, like I'm going to be
talking about weed, cannabis. I'm going to keep using the
word weed just because that's the word that I use
mostly in conversation with my friends, but of course, yeah,
just referring to cannabis generally in this conversation. Of course,
(04:03):
I'm going to be mentioning misogyny and racism in the
War on drugs historically, and also kind of current weed
culture in the what industry, as well as the mentions
of diet culture and its relation to advertising.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So just want to put that up top.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
One more quick disclaimer, since we're talking about cannabis, I'm
not a doctor or a legal expert, so please don't
listen to me about any serious issues.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Everybody's body reacts differently.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Everybody has their own sort of experiences with cannabis.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I will be talking about my own experience.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
A little bit, but don't take that as like the
you know, word of the law of how these things.
You know. Again, everybody processes things differently, like don't I'm
a mess.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Don't come to me for medical advice or.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Legal advice because yeah, I do, hope, Or I live
in a state where weed is decriminalized. Actually, at this point,
the only two places I've ever lived we just currently legal.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So I'm coming in it from that perspective.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
That being said, of course, like I'm coming into this
with the with the assumption that you know, people use drugs,
people use weed. I'm not putting any sort of moral
value to that. Whether or not it's something you want
to partake in, that's your choice. Personally, I'm somebody who
partakes in that but yeah, so as we say it,
(05:29):
it kind of at the top this episode. Originally wanted
to do this episode because well, as as somebody'll know
about a month ago, I it's in an episode about
the whole conversation about girlhood on TikTok and like all
these like girlhood trends and girl insert.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Word, and how that kind of.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Spiraled into a lot of different weird stuff and.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, basically, girl, why is this happening?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Rude col Rod, I have a lot of us on it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Anyways, we're not gonna get all that tangent again.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
A big sort of problem I was seeing with that
was the way it was making its way into advertising,
particularly things like Girl Dinner and Girl Math and girl
all those things. How that kind of was being used
as like a marketing tool. Now I got another really
weird targeted ad recently, this time on Hulu, and this
sort of set me into a spiral thinking about weed
and the conversation about weed and women and all that.
(06:28):
So I made the mistake of not recording this ad
or writing down what the company was. I have not
been able to find it again that I will do
my best to describe it to now Samantha nanny. I
have a question for you, which is that are you
familiar with the narrative structure of your average paper towel commercial.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
It's my favorite narrative structures. It's one of the.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Premiere exports of American culture, I think. But basically this
sort of commercial usually looks like is there's.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
A white eight couple.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
The mom is clearly doing the majority of the housework.
They live in a nice, very clean, unlived in looking
suburban household.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Usually she's talking about like, ah, my kids.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Are so crazy, they're leaving their stuff all over the place,
and my husband doesn't do any work.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But I've got XYZ product to help me out.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
This was basically the same structure of the commercial that
I saw for.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Weed gummies, which I thought was really.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Interesting because especially when you look at kind of historically
the war on drugs and a lot of the cultural
forces that were behind the war on drugs, it's interesting
to see the sort of idealized white suburban two point
five kids, very clear gender roles, household being now the
face of trying to sell cannabis and trying to sell
(07:53):
beat gummies, something that's sonat to bea this particular commercial,
was there was a bit where she's like my husband
is like he's a total stoner, but not me, Like
I'm a girl, I don't know how to smoke weed.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So because the.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Whole thing is it's very like you know which, I'm
not going to get into the like taking gummies versus smoking.
I think that's a personal choice, but the implication is
like smoking's gross. I need to take these nice health
supplement gummies and like frame it in a way that
it's like, no, it's healthy and it's good and it's
and it's the whole thing is like it's helping me
calm down from the.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Chaos of my life.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
And I mean I would argue, yeah, that is a
benefit of weed, and it's something that draws a lot
of people to weed. Is the fact that it is
something that calms a lot of people down. It is
like a stress reliever. But yeah, the way that this
was being framed it very much was fitting into that
traditional again, two point five kids, white, suburban, middle class family,
(08:47):
paper towel, commercial main character thing.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yes, and I've seen these.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I've seen these and I am one of my skills
is I am so good at skipping you two bats.
I know that fifteen second mark, and I can skip it,
but they know that you're gonna skip it. So there
was one where like the couple was in bed and
they're very like obnoxious couple.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
They're like over the top and they're in bed and.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
She's like, I just did weed with my dad and
then he like.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Spits out his worners, like what and the fifteen second skip.
So I never saw beyond that art. So it's so fascinating.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
I just I think this commercial really like this and
this these types of commercials that we're both getting, because
this wasn't the only one. I've seen variations of this
commercial over and over again. I've seen similar things what
you're talking about. I think this really signals kind of
a shift in the conversation about weed and the way
that weed in cannabis use has been normalized to a
certain extent. So basically, like whenever we're talking about this
(09:52):
sort of thing, Basically, since the US became a consumer
centric society, while men are traditionally the ones who are
seeing to be like making the money and working.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Jobs and creating and selling.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
These products, women are seen as the primary consumers. So
I think it is really important to look at how
these things are being marketed towards women, particularly to really
understand the conversation about something within our sort of capitalistic sphere.
So yeah, so this is the latest of that. Some
quick background, really quick. While medical use of cannabis has
(10:24):
been legal in some states across the US since nineteen
ninety six, Colorado became the first state to legalize recreational
lead in twenty fourteen, so just ten years ago. Now
ten years later, recreational marijuana is legal in twenty four states. Again,
that includes the only two states that I've ever lived in,
which are Illinois and New York Georgia. It seems like
(10:47):
it's to criminalize in small amounts and like for some
medical uses.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I don't know if you guys have any anything else
sort of any other info on that.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
There's still a big debate with it. There's need yeas
and bills being passed. There's a lot of headway in
trying to get medical access. We just discovered that yes,
you can get I think less than five percent as
in like the concentration level for anything, which is I
guess how it got into the non alcoholic drink.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
We had and we.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Talked like what is the world and it's effective as hell,
but like the overall intent, like they know that it's
a big money maker for the state, they really are
having a hard time in letting that go. Other than that,
because it is a big money maker, they've made all
tons of money with bills and bonds. There are still
(11:41):
people in jail for marijuana in general, Like there's no
stopping all of that. So the it's really complicated here.
It's supposed to decriminalize in that it's not a misdemeanor
as opposed to a felony, but that doesn't mean they
can't get you because there's like hashish apparently that has
a deeper concentration can still get you.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Five years and interesting.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
So it's complicated.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, complicated, that's yeah, I think that's the best way
to some of these. It's complicated.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And once again, as I saw at the top, like
I'm not a lawyer, I'm not about to try to
give you a definitive answer, and like this whole conversation
and most states has been really complicated, and things keep changing,
and so much of it is so I mean, the
whole thing is is just politics.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So it it really and racist.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, it's all you know, none of it act that
the real issue is never actually the weed, it's always
the you.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Know, underlying things.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
So but yeah, not to say it is very complicated.
I bring up this idea of legalization and the fact
that it is fully legal in twenty four states to
(13:00):
introduced this idea that like, this conversation about weed is
so so different than it was like even five years ago.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And hence that's you know why Annie and I.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Are getting a lot of Bees advertisements all of a sudden,
but are framing weed in a way much differently than
it had been in the past.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Uh So, and.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Because you're like, yeah, has already said an idea, So
I guess I always thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I'm just not one of the cool kids. It's okay, right,
you just say no kids, just exactly this is your
brain on drugs.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So I I do want to hear more about the
THHC infused not alcoholic liquor you guys had, because that's
not an interesting it's effective.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I got home just the time.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
But to contrast this in it, let's talk a little
bit about women and the War on drugs. Historically, historically
feels like the wrong word to be talking about the nineties,
but whatever. I found this article from nineteen ninety one
in the Berkeley Journal of Gender Law and Justice called
(14:15):
the War on Drugs a War on Women. That again
is from nineteen ninety one, which was sort of the
peak of the War on drugs in full full swing,
and also around a time when this article doesn't.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
It talks about drugs very broadly. It's not just talking
about weed.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It's also talking about like cocaine and a lot of
different drug use all sort of group together.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
But the article speaks.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
About how poor women of color, particularly war were impacted
by the War on drugs and some of the unique
kind of issues that poor women of color faced and
during this era. The article states the statistics quote indicate
that poor women of color do not fall into any
categories with the highest incidents of drug use. However, the
(15:03):
consequences of addiction to or any association with drugs can
be much harsher for poor women of color do do
poverty and discrimination. There are a number of factors that
lead to the disproportionate impact of the War on drugs
on women, including the feminization of poverty, connection to family life,
and including specific laws the target drug use in pregnant
(15:24):
women this I found particularly interesting, especially in a time
when reproductive rice are under attack once again. On the
feminization of poverty and the role of women in the
war on drugs, the article states quote, if they are
not involved in the drug trade directly, they are found
guilty by association with their children, other family members, friends,
and associates. In both the criminal and civil contexts, the
(15:47):
law is used to destroy families and neighborhoods without attempting
to address the underlying causes of drug addiction and abuse.
The article also again yeah points to concerns about pregnancy
and motherhood, stating quote, criminal prosecution for fetal abuse, like
all of these other war tactics, is exercise in a
racially discriminatory manner. Seventy one percent of all women charged
(16:08):
with fetal abuse are African American. The most commonly preferred
reason for such action is purported concerned for the child's welfare,
but the sudden concern for the welfare of black babies
prompt suspicion. So the article connects us back to the
historic dehumanization of black women and black mothers, stating quote,
this particular strategy and the current war on drugs is
(16:29):
a continuation of the dehumination of black women that has
its roots in slavery. In those times, the slave master
controlled reproduction through forced breeding, manipulation of marital choices, and rape.
After giving birth, slave women were often denied the right
to keep or care for their children. More recently, poor
women of color have been subject to force sterilization, while
their ability to choose other means of reproductive control, such
(16:51):
as abortion, has been severely limited. And I think this
is a really interesting point to start from. Again, Like
I said, we're living at a time when reproductive health
is under attack.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Again.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Women are expected to carry children whether they want to
or not. And a lot of times, the particular scrutiny
that is put on women that use drugs like marijuana
or any other substance, it has to do with a
sort of pseudo concern for the fetus and for the children.
(17:26):
And you know that already on it in itself is
very complicated and has a lot of messed up connotations.
But when you put that into context, the fact that
these same sort of social structures that want to keep
read something that's illegal and something that is taboo, these
(17:47):
are also oftentimes the same sort of social structures that
want to limit women's ability to have any sort of
reproductive freedom.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So yeah, that's to say I do.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I think all of these issues are connected, and I
think any sort of like control over women's bodies are
people that can become pregnant over our bodies. That is
something that is going to be politicized, is going to
be used against us when it can be. And I
think that also is interesting to look at and contrast
to going back to this idea of the commercial image
(18:23):
of people now that are using weed, there's this idea
of like the weed mom that's kind of coming out
now that's sort of replacing the idea of like a
wine mom, that commercial that I talked about at the top.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I think that that's.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Kind of a quintessential example of the like, Ah, I
just I'm so stressed out because my kids are crazy
and my husband doesn't help out with the house at all.
I guess I'm gonna take some gummies to go onwind,
which you know, I have no problems with that. Motherhood
is stressful, I cannot imagine. But yeah, I think there
is there's an interesting character that's being created by these
(19:01):
sort of marketing narratives of this usually white usually more
affluent mom who is using weed, and that is something
that is just kind of like funny or you know,
it's a way to calm down. And that being contrasted
with the historic scrutiny on particularly poor women of color
and their use of you know, either weed or any
(19:22):
other sort of substance.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Just because people like to use substances.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I mean again, like all of these things that bring
yet well, people are using weed because they're stressed out
or because X y Z, But like people have used
weed for all of human existence, Like it is kind
of one of those things. It's the same with like alcohol, Like, yes,
we should talk about the issues, or we should talk
about health issues or sociological issues.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Related to it.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
But it is saying that people are immoral simply for
using something something is kind of counterproductive.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, so obviously, and again, all of these stigmas that
existed during.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
The height of the War on drugs, they still exist.
They still exists in lots of personally the country, but
so does capitalism. And since weed is now legal in
the growing majority of the country, that means that these
sort of shame and puritanical values that used to lead
the conversation about weed are now being overshadowed by the
one force in this country with more power than puritanical
(20:21):
values and shame, which is capitalism. And as a result,
we're seeing this very rapid brandification of the weed industry.
If you walk into a dispensary in any state where
it's legal, I'm sure you can see lots of you know,
new shiny brands of which, again I'm not saying that's
(20:41):
a bad thing. That's again just part of American capitalism
as it exists right now, but it's definitely very different
than I think previously the like purchasing of weed was
imagined to look like.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And so as cannabis becomes more.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Normalized, more mainstream, I think we're seeing gender become a
much more important part of this whole marketing process. So
one of the most infamous historical examples of gender marketing
is of course cigarettes, and I think it's really interesting
to look at how the marketing tactics used to sort
of feminize smoking nicotine back in the day are now
(21:22):
being used to feminize smoking weed or using cannabis. Again,
a lot of times it's more for gummies than it
is for actually smoking. And this isn't to say that
I think like the cigarette industry is evil. I'm not
saying the weed industry is on the same moral foot
ig as the cigarette industry. That's very different, but we're
(21:42):
seeing some of the same tactics, which is that in
some versions the products are sort of being marketed in
a way that's quote like four girls or toned down
or sexy. It's made to look at make you look sexy,
and in other cases it's seen as something that's like
empowering or liberating. And through this kind of new marketing
of making products that are particularly for women or for girls,
(22:05):
we're seeing things like the pink tax come about, which
is where, in dressing up a product in a way
that's like aesthetically pleasing or like girly or pink or whatever,
you can charge more for it.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Because it's for girls.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
So if you don't know what the pink taxes, According
to Investipedia, the pink tax is the tendency for goods
and services to marketed towards women to be more expensive
than those targeted at men. And that's why a lot
of times and weed is kind of the more recent
version of this, but you see the gender binary sort
of imposed on these products that I would.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Argue don't need to be gendered.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I don't think there's anything about weed that makes it
different for men or women or whatever gender you are
to insume it. And yet again there is sort of
this culture of marketing things in a way towards women.
But then you're like, okay, and I can charge them
a little bit more if because we're making it pink
and we're making it for girls. And look, this in
(23:07):
and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. If
you want to spend a bit more money on a
product because it's like dressed up a little bit, all
power to you. I support that. I think the problem
is when this is the majority of the conversation or
the majority of the products being marketed towards women. Like
I will say, I've bought a few rose pedal joints
(23:28):
in my day that are definitely not necessarily for.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Practicality, just because they look nice.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
But yeah, these sort of marketing techniques particularly start to
concern me when they felled into more predatory tactics, and
when you talk about things being marketed towards women. A
big example of that is diet culture and the way
that these products connect to diet culture. So a product
(23:54):
that I got advertised the other day was for a
thhc V product. I'm not a scientist. I could not
tell you what those specific things mean. However, the way
that they marketed it was the company was called Blaze
and Chill and the product was called Lazy Days and
it's supposed to be weed that doesn't give you munchies.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I feel mixed thoughts on this because I have
one hands. I get it, like munchies can be annoying.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
And I know plenty of people that are like, I
don't want another thing that's going to make me want
to eat more, Like I to each their own. With
that that being said, I was like, huh, that's that
seems a little bit weird to be advertising this towards women,
in particular with don't worry it won't make you want
to eat more, because we know you ladies hate eating food,
(24:49):
especially when it's something like.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Weed that's like, I don't know you're supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It's supposed to be something for fun and relaxation, and
I mean, it can be really fun to eat while
you're high, I will say, but yeah, this is the
area where I start to get concerned because I think, yes,
this gendered marketing sometimes can be a little bit frivolous
and can be a little bit fun again if you want,
(25:13):
just like your fine little pink product. But when it
gets to the point where we are leaning into these
ideas of diet culture and body expectations and all of that,
that's when I start to get concerned, and I don't know,
that just does not seem like something that's going to
end end well from my perspective.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Well, interestingly, one of the other because I saw all
of these ads, they had a handful.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
One of the other big ones was it was a
group of women after.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Like a brownie night, I must assume at a book
club and they're all like passed out, and they're like,
are you out.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Of drinking and the hangover? Take your weed gummies.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
But it also was like, you won't get the calories
from drink, You'll just get the the high. But going
back to that idea of like the wine mom and
the weed mom, there was this big concern about like
a past house. Bridget did an episode on it about
like the rise of drinking to essentially deal with Trump
(26:25):
and the patriarchy, and so it became all like the
wine mom who is miserable and she's drinking just to
like get through the day.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And now it's like, well, people.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Are kind of moving away from alcohol, they still want
to be thin, but nothing's really gotten better.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Take your weed right right, And this is will to say.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I mean, I think I think the whole conversation about
wine Mom's like that it's its own very complicated thing.
I think a lot of times, like you said, it's
rooted in these real world stress and expectations that a
we live in. We live in a world that is
very hostile towards women or to anybody who is not Assistan.
And then also you know a lot of times motherhood,
(27:03):
all of these things, they're they're very stressful there.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
You're not given a lot of support.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
We don't live in a culture that lends women or
people that are doing this like a lot of support.
It makes sense that people are turning to alcohol and
then now are turning to weed because these are again
stress relievers, that's not And but then there is of
course then the concern of yeah, like when does it
become a substance abuse issue? When does it become a
(27:31):
thing to numb the pain up the rest of the
world and not something that you're just doing for fun.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And and.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I'm not getting a ton into substance abuse when it
comes to weed and here just because that I think
there is still like a lot of research that needs
to be done, and I that is a way bigger
conversation than I kind.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Of have the capacity to talk about.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
But yeah, I think these are things to remember as
we're seeing cannabis and we become more normalized and more
like mainstream ified. I do think it is also interesting
to talking about the way that this whole conversation about
how weat is being marketed towards women and these ideas
(28:15):
of like girl, weaed or wead for women kind of companies.
I think it's interesting to juxtapose that with the historic
and ongoing exploitation of women in cannabis product marketing and advertising,
as well as sort of the gender barriers within the
actual industry. I found this really fantastic piece from the
Denver Post that I will link in the notes called
(28:37):
opinion We'd bros still cling to a quote booth babes
and no girls in the grow sexist mentality, written by
cannabis journalists Lindsay Bartlett.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
She writes, objectification of.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Women's bodies is interwoven into the very language of weed,
from culs of bar names to packaging over sexualized marketing,
booth babes and trim bits. Rain names like mill, dirty
girl and tits have circulated the adult youth marketplace. No
matter how well it's grown, it tastes like violence. And
I will say, this is usually the kind of thing
I'm actually a little bit more skeptical about, Like I do.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Think sometimess like these kind of names sometimes could.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Just be a little bit funnier, like I think. I think,
But I do see where she's coming from. And I
think particularly Bartlett is writing as somebody who has worked
in the industry and has worked as a as a
woman in the industry and dealt with the misogyny of
the industry. I can see how that can be incredibly frustrating,
especially when you are contrasting it with the sort of
like she was talking about, the sort of no girls
(29:38):
and grow idea that exists in a lot of the
grow side of the industry. And so the fact that
this is happening and the fact that we're seeing again
like the prevalence of these kind of these more misogistic.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Names or this mentality.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
This is happening in tangent with discrimination cases such as
one in twenty twenty two that Bartlett writes about in
which quote, two former employees filed a lawsuit against a
Los Angeles based grow, alleging that the company discriminates against women.
One plaintiff was told quote is called jungle boys for
a reason, and that women were not allowed in the grow.
(30:17):
Bartlett also points to a twenty twenty one case in
which quote, a well known multi state cannabis brand posted
a photo of a woman being used as a table
with a rig, hash and other accoutrements placed on her
back to hundreds of thousands of consumers on social media.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Had a woman been invited to.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
The marketing table, she might have told them that using
this photo was a terrible idea. And that was the
one that really made me like, oh wow, okay, yeah,
that sounds like a very misogynistic image, and I think
that is something that is important to remember when is
contrasted again with these companies that are presenting themselves as
(30:58):
again like weed for women or read for girls.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
We're going to charge you a little.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Bit more for this, and then the mainstream weed companies
are very much leaning into these older misogynistic marketing techniques.
Like I mentioned earlier, this is very similar to the
cigarette industry, like a century ago. A lot of times cigarettes,
when they were marketed towards women, it was about how
like it makes you look so like classy and sophisticated,
(31:22):
or it's something that's very liberating for you. And then
when you see cigarette ads that were aimed at men,
they oftentimes like women were very much objectified.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
So yeah, and then if that's not enough to.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Be angry about, I want to bring up one more
case from that article that Bartlett wrote in which he says,
quote in twenty twenty four, so this year, a recent
lawsuit audaciously claims that social equity regulations in New York,
which have attempted to safeguard licenses for minorities, women and
(31:56):
those hit hardest by the War on drugs, are discriminatory
against men, and men hold the majority of sea sweet
roles in weed, and so things really stuck out to me.
I also work on Brigit Toad's podcasts. There are no
girls on the internet who's often on this show, and
this is something that comes up a lot on that show.
So Ever, since the Supreme Court ruling against defirmative action
(32:18):
last summer, there had been a wave of lawsuits against
programs and measures that have attempted to reverse some of
the deep, deep rooted inequalities in all aspects of the
American economy and systems of power. And these lawsuits are
concerning for so so many reasons, and they also are
just like contra to reality.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And like in that.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Quote from Bartlett, she states, you know, the majority of
sea suite roles in the cannabis industry, as well as
every other industry that's being targeted by these sort of lawsuits,
are still held by men, and usually white men. So
there's this this whole sort of panic over this isn't
happening in a vacuum, every sort of moral panic that
(33:01):
we're seeing over again any kind of small steps to
reverse the historic inequality that exists in a lot of
our systems. DEI is the big kind of buzzword thing
that conservatives are attacking right now. Cannabis, the cannabis industry
is just the latest sort of victim of this very
(33:24):
I want to say short sighted, but it's not really
short sighted because the people doing these lawsuits know exactly
what they're doing. But yeah, the cannabis has become the
latest victim of that. So I looked a little bit
more into this New York lawsuit. So basically, when weed
was first legalized in New York and a similar thing
happened in Illinois, I don't know if this happened in
other states. I'm sure similar programs were put in place,
(33:44):
but those legislation mandated the investment of forty percent of
all adult use cannabis tax revenue toward rebuilding communities harmed
by the War on Drugs. That's according to the New
York Office of Cannabis Management. And also the law quote
established is a goal of awarding fifty percent of all
adult use licenses to distinct see social and economic equity
(34:07):
groups including individual or individuals from a community disproportionately impacted
by cannabis prohibition, a minority owned business, a woman owned business,
distressed farmers, or service disabled veterans. And so the case
that is currently happening in New York, a pair of
white dudes were mad that they had to wait a
little bit longer to get a dispensary license, and so
(34:30):
now they're suing the State of New York saying that
this policy that tries to prioritize communities that have been
more historically impacted by the War on drugs is somehow
being racist and misogynistic to them as white men, to
groups that have historically faced a lot of discrimination in
this country. They are being represented pro bono by the
(34:53):
Pacific Legal Foundation, which is a libertarian law firm.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Just putting that out there. A lot of these cases.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Seem to be getting pro boon representation by activist law firms.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Wonder why that is. And I will say, all of
this being.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Said, then New York cannabis rollout, like industry rollout, has
been kind of a mess.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
So I'm not too worried. Knock on wood, We'll see.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
But there actually is another lawsuit ongoing in which four
women are suing the State of New York for.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
The opposite reason. The way that the.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Licensing system works right now is there's kind of this
lottery system that randomizes the queue for cannabis licenses, and
the women are claiming that the system doesn't actually do
anything to help them kind of gain more, you know,
of a priority.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
There was an article in which they spoke with.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
The lawyer who is representing these women, and they said
that they're actually not going to pursue a like discrimination
case because that would be too complicated. They're they're sort
of more looking at it as a like, Hey, this
system isn't really working.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Can be fix it so that it actually works the
way it's supposed to.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
And also one work quick tangent about this whole case
and everything going on in New York. According to a
Forbes article on the lawsuits and sort of just the
overall chaotic state of the weed industry of New York, quote,
as the legal retail industry has flagged, unlicensed weed retail
stops spots had exploded, with more than fifteen hundred unlicensed
(36:27):
operations compared to just nine legal venues.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
So like, I don't know if there's a lot you
could take.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Away from that, I would argue there are, you know,
maybe bigger things to figure out than making sure that
two white men who really really want to open a
dispensary are feel like they're being treated fairly.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I don't know. Anyways, the whole.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Kind of weed legal weed industry rollout has been a mess,
and I think that also is important to think about
when we talk about these kind of issues.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Yeah, I think it's just the a quick point to
remember that arrests are still happening on the federal level,
like a pretty substantial amount of people who are being
arrested for possession. And yeah, that federal level is a
big concern. That's been a conversation that's been happening for
a minute. And again it is disproportionately the black community
who was being arrested, which is kind of hilarious that
(37:23):
the corporate worlds, that capitalist world are like, yeah, let's
jump on. It is not really going well and people
are still getting arrested, but we can still make money.
And again, the majority of the shareholders are white men
who have been less impacted from jump from beginning, like
we know when we've heard many stories where white men
are able to get out of having smoking openly, while
(37:47):
people from the black community are literally planted with buds
and then arrested for years and years and years and
I'll go into debt because they have no money to
do bond and all that stuff. So it is still
important to remember that, yeah, this is going one way,
and we wanted this to be equitable for all peoples.
But the fact that people are still being arrested and
(38:07):
incarcerated on top of that being arrested with multiple charges
because they've already had a bad record with weed and
typically a lot of these accounts these people are is
just weed and can never get back on their feet,
meaning they can't get jobs, meaning they're still blacklisted from
so many organizations when they just had perhaps a couple
(38:28):
of toques, essentially like just literally having a couple of ounces.
Because even in the state of Georgia, one ounce can
get you still up to a year or a ten
thousand dollars fine, like Getler five to ten thousand dollar fine.
It's accordant to who you are, if you have representation
and or how the arresting officer fills that day. So
it's really just absurd of what this is happening, because
(38:49):
the discrimination and the discrepancies on how this is looked
at is so wide ranging that it's almost a legend. Oh,
you know, they tell you like as this is like
a folklore, don't go to this area. You know, it's
just so absurd.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
For sure, It's it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I mean, and I think that that is that's such
an important point. It is important to remember, like, yeah,
it is still criminalized, and a lot of this country
is still criminalized on a federal level. And I think
again I opened with talking about the commercials that I'm
getting and talking about these sort of marketing techniques we're seeing,
(39:29):
because you really, it is such an obvious example of
the fact that there's just like two vastly different worlds
that exist in the US, and it is one hundred
percent based on who you are, what your identity is,
how much money you.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Have, Like.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
I can come on here and I can I can
joke about, you know, having used weed and talk about
this is a like, you know, sociology, Like let's talk
about these images of that we're seeing issue. And then
at the same time, there's people being arrested for way
less and serving serious jail time. There are people that
(40:12):
you know, the reason that all of these legislations, the
reason that there's there's so much emphasis on making sure
that these communities that were most impacted by the War
on drugs and individuals that were impacted by the War
on drugs, how that making sure that those people can
now perceive the benefits of the like legal cannabis industry
and can maybe have like a fast pass to getting
(40:37):
license to sell cannabis recreationally.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
And all of this. It's because the War.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
On drugs ruined lives and ruined communities, and that is
something that I think.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
We need to remember and we need to remember even.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
As and I do, I think it is like ultimately
a net positive that weed is being more normalized and
that can't of it consumption. It's seen as something that
is just like it's like having a beer, it's like
going out to a bar.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
It is just like a normal part of human life.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
But it's so important to remember, like that was not
that long ago, and that is where we're coming from,
and that is still the reality that lots of people
in this country face.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Yeah, and just to put a capra on it, our
vice President Kamala Harris has there's still people in prison
that she put in there for marijuana use like that
and has not she has not rectified that situation like
I want to. You know, we were so proud when
she became vice president, but we can't ignore mm hm
that a lot of our politicians had big hands in this.
(41:37):
Of course, I always argue about the fact that you
have to do what you have to do to get
to where you are. And for black women, for the
black community and in general, like that has to be
the game. They toe the line because that's the only way,
that was the only way for so many to get
to be able to make a difference and make changes.
But have to have that conversation, but are you making
(41:58):
those changes? And with talks about this because this is
a growing like we we get excited in that this
is a growing industry. We are becoming a little more
progressive and understanding this. But when it's not in a
line that is beneficial to everyone, that's that's the downfall
of this. And it goes with production as well and
who is being marketed and how it's being marketed and
(42:20):
who's able to get to it, And that's that level
as well. And like having these types of conversations at
a very new industry. This could be a great industry.
But yeah, already jumping into pink tech. Come on, like
it's all these levels right right.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
And on that note, I want to end with a
couple more positive later stories regarding weed and.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Women and nonsense men.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
So first off, a twenty twenty two Harvard Blood survey,
which looked at patterns of cannabis use in menopausal and
postmenopausal women, found that quote, nearly seventy nine percent endorsed
it to alleviate menopause related symptoms. Of those, sixty seven
percent said cannabis helps with sleep disturbance, while forty six
(43:18):
percent reported it helps improve mood and anxiety. This article
from the Harvard Med School website made sure to point
out that this research is fairly new, and there's lots
more that needs to be done to study the long
term effects. Unfortunately, you know, the other side of the
criminalization is that it made it very difficult for people
(43:40):
to do actual research on cannabis and its health benefits
or negative effects either side of that for many years.
But yeah, so we're kind of starting to see the
research in so that sort of research again. And yeah,
I mean this is one area in which this could
(44:01):
be very helpful for a lot of people that are
going through menopause or postmenopostal symptoms.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
And yeah, like whether whether you know we're.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Talking about THHC or CBD or whatever, physical and mental
relaxation and like the alleviation of pain and stress. These
are the things that drive people to want to use
cannabis to begin with, and so I think that's good.
I think this is important to be looking into how
this is, this tool can be used to help people
and to help us sort of deal with you know,
(44:33):
we talked about the whole issue of weed moms using cannabis,
but at the same time, like it is something that
is a stress reliefer, and I think that there is
a lot more research that needs to be done to
really fully be able to use the benefits of this
quick personal anecdote on this issue personally, And again back
to my disclaimer of the top, just because I'm saying
(44:54):
this not me, this is the same for everybody.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
It's not take medical advice for me.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
But weed is not really helpful for me, And like
navigating gender dysphoria and really like becoming more in tune
with my body. I dealt with really bad body dysmorphia
for like a very long time and wed with something
that really helped me overcome that and deal with some
of the harsher symptoms of having to deal with gender
(45:20):
dysphoria and body dysmorphia and all these all these things
that you know come about as we live.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Our lives, and I know that. I Unfortunately, I.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Tried to look into whether there was some like serious
research that have been done about gender dysphoria, and we
use there really has not been because, surprise, surprise, two
things that have historically sort of been sigmatized have been
cannabis and also any sort of gender debians or gendered
on conformity.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
So there has not been a ton of research.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
But you know, from discussions I've had with friends, it
does not seem like I'm the only one who's experienced this.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
And then one.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
More article that was written by that cannabis journalist Lindsay
Bartlett who wrote the article about sexism in the industry
which I was citing earlier. She also wrote a recent
article for Forbes called quote how Indigenous women are Revolutionizing
the cannabis Industry. I'm going to link this in the
show notes. It's a really awesome article, but totally check
(46:20):
it out. But she for this article, she spoke to
Mary Jane Oatman. Ha ha, very funny, but.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
I had to.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
But she is the CEO and executive director of the
Indigenous Cannabis Industry Alliance or ici AU.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
From the ICIA website.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Their goals are quote building an equitable and sustainable Indigenous
cannabis industry through sensible policy, education resources, educational and economic
opportunities for our indigenous entrepreneurs, tribal nations, and our communities.
And to provide access to Icia's network to connect tribal nations,
(47:03):
industry partners, advocacy groups, mentors, businesses, and aspiring entrepreneurs. So
the article goes into Oatman and how she got involved
in cannabis legislation and advocacy, and it says, quote Oatman
is the fierce advoca she is today because her grandmother
(47:24):
went to federal prison for growing in the nineteen eighties,
which created a tremendous amount of stigma and shame around
cannabis use and cultivation in her family. She goes on
to say the aftershocks of the War on drugs is
still felt, especially by indigenous elders. It is a regular
practice to have drug dogs and targeted search on the reservation,
says Oatmen. Her grandmother fears the police to this day.
(47:47):
My passion for doing this is because there are so
many grandmothers and grandfathers out there like my grandma, who
live in fear.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I don't want anyone to live in fear anymore.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
And I think that goes back to Samantha your point
about the fact that this is still something that is
federally prosecuted, and Indigenous communities and these indigenous reservations are
oftentimes particularly targets of these sort of searches, the same
way that a lot of like marginalized communities within big
(48:14):
cities are also targeted by these policies. And so I
really loved this article because I really felt like a
positive story about how communities that are most impacted by
this are now kind of finding some empowerment economically or
culturally through the cannabis industry.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
And then also something.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
That I really loved about this is that the article
spotlights not only the organization's activism around cannabis and cannabisry criminalization,
but also how it's not just something to be consumed,
but it is something that you know, has a lot
of potential as a sustainable material and has a lot
of potential to really have a lot of positive effects
(48:59):
in terms of like environmental activism. So indigenous communities and
land are often some of the first to be impacted
by a climate injustice and catastrophes, and because of that
Oapmen really talks about how important it is to look
at cannabis as an environmental issue as well. So she's
quoted in the article saying, quote, the future is in
(49:21):
industrial fiber. That is a transition needed for the climate
change work we have to do. Industrial fiber made with
hemp is the gospel. Cannabis can be smoked, yes, but
an industrial fiber, large scale manufacturing products breaking away from
the plastic industry. That's where tribes have a huge impact
given our land rights. This is also such an important
issue to focus on the whole war on drugs and
(49:42):
the criminalization of cannabis that really stunted a lot of
research that could have been done into how hemp can
be used as a sustainable material, and particularly how it
can be used as a substitute things like plastic that
are historically not very sustainable. So to end with another
(50:05):
quote from Oatmen from this article, she said, quote, we
need to do this in a way that does not
create a capitalistic commodity on the backs of other earth.
This is one of those campaigns Icia is working on
protecting mother Earth. Growing cannabis is an environmentally conscious way.
The benefits the gen x generations as an organization, we
will dig our heels in the sand to make sure
(50:27):
it is not a capitalistic approach but a human and
healing approach. And climate justice is so so important to
how we talk about the future. It is like maybe
the most important issue as we talk about the future,
and it is so tied to capitalism and industry.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
And I think Oatman's quote and Otmen's.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
Sort of perspective on all of this is so refreshing
to look at hey, like, this is an industry that
has so much potential for a lot of good impacts,
a lot of good work to be done.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
It has a lot of potential for us.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
To have a new sort of understanding of the earth
and a new relationship with the earth. So let's make
sure that we're not just using this as another thing
to kind of exploit the earth and exploit I'll do
all of the things that capitalism has historically done that
have led to the situation that we're in now with
climate change and the various environmental disasters that we all
(51:19):
kind of just live through. So yeah, I think she's
doing super important work. I hope that the Icia gets
to do more of this work and gets to really like,
these are the kind of stories I really hope that
we continue to hear from the growing cannabis industry, unless
of the just you know, this company used a super
(51:42):
misogynistic ad, or we're getting girl beed iteration for the
millionth time and it cost twenty percent more because there's
a bow on it.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
But yeah, so I want to stay hopeful.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
I want to say positive and yeah, and then Annie,
as I promised there was a Star Wars connection, I
was gonna say, my current stash box is a return
of the Jedi lunchbox that I bought when I was
like eight years old.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
It feels right.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
I believe Yoda was.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
If anybody it was.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
We also know about the holiday special and how fun.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
I do not accept any modern au of Star Wars
where the Millennium falcon is not just like a weed ban.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
It almost always And it's really funny because the lead
singer of the Mamas and Papa's a quote came out
from her recently where she saw Star Wars and was
like pointed at Harrison Ford and said, that's my weed dealer.
Speaker 4 (52:50):
I kneel like.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
There was Carrie Fisher quote to where she was also
like like I don't.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Like guy like it anyways, had to connect it back
to Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
This is so yeah, thank you. I want to see
a picture of this box camera now. Yes, oh, I
love it.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
They bound right next to them just in case, and
now they've destroyed it, knocked it over.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
But don't worry. I love it so good. And I
do really like the environmental points at the end. Because
it is birthday also for it is birthday.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
No, no, it's for it's it's it's April twenty second, right, oh,
because because my birthday is the twenty second of a
different month, so it was very important to.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Make that birthday is also a twenty second.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
I was like, I'm pretty sure your birthday is not
going no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
My birthday is not until the summer. But it is
April twenty second, his birthday. Close enough, close it up.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I think it's because a lot of companies, like when
I was in school, you would say celebrate on the Friday,
And I had a friend whose birthday was April twentieth,
and he was always like, earth to take my wind
out of the sales of my birthday.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Anyway, it's close. It's green week, you know, it's Alway's Day.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yes, well, thank you so much for coming on, Joey.
We always love having you. Of course, I believe there
will be some more breaking down of TikTok trends.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Oh yeah, definitely in the future.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Well in the meantime, where can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 3 (54:33):
You can find me on Instagram or Twitter at pat
not Pratt that's p at t n ot p r
a t T. Or you can also hear me occasionally
on There Are No Girls of the Internet with bridget Hood,
where we talk about a lot of things that might
be interesting to people who listen to this show.
Speaker 5 (54:56):
So yeah, go check this out always definitely and past
episode test min t oh yeah too, oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Okay, well, yes, thanks again Jerry for being here and listeners.
If you would like to connect with us, you can
you can email us at Stephania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mos
Stuff podcast, or on TikTok and Instagram at stuff.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Whenever told you.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
We have a t belk store and we have a
book you can get where you get your books. Thanks
Zowis too, our super producer Christina, our excited producer Maya.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
And contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Hey, thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening
stuff I Never told yous.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
Foiction of My Heart Radio.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, you can check
out the Heart Radio ap Apple podcast or where you
listen to your favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I hope for stuff.
I never told you a protection.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I hearted you.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And today, in typical Sminty fashion, we're bringing back one
that's a little late, but it's it's timely esk, it's
close enough. And it was one we did with Friend
of the Show contributor Joey on the gendering of Wheed
because four twenty has just passed, which if you're interested,
(00:40):
we discussed with Bridget but local Atlanta icon killer Mike
his birthday is four twenty, and so that's what I
was thinking of that day.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I don't know his birthday or did he change it
to be his birthday.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I think it's his birthday, but I don't know. It
could be part of the mythos. And do you know
this conversation is still ongoing because I was looking into
it when we were thinking about episode topics, I was like, oh,
what could we talk about around this, And a lot
of it was an extension of the information that Joey
brought in this episode and also just when we're talking
(01:13):
about some legislation going on that's still ongoing. So please
enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is any and Samantha
I'm welcome to Stefan never told you a buction.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Iheartrad you.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And we are so happy to be joined on this
text day. Bye a good friend of the show, excellent coworker, Joey.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Welcome, Joey, thanks for having me. Super excited to talk
about taxes.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes, that's definitely what episode. That's what everyone loves talking about.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yes, yes, well we are talking about a tent pole
event kind of, but not taxes because as we record this, yes,
four twenty is coming up.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We have done past episodes on.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Some of the issues with four twenty if you want
to go back and find that and just like the
wead industry in general, and then do you want to
hear about the food side of it on saver go
check that out. But when you suggested this topic, Jerry,
I immediately knew what you were talking about because you
and I both have seen I think it's the same commercial.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I'm not sure, but yes, a lot, there's a lot
going around. Yes, So what are we talking about, Joey? Yeah, so, surprise, surprise,
We're going to talk about weed.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I wanted to talk particularly about some of the advertising
that we're seeing currently targeted at women and telling weed
or cannabis products, and some of the conversations that are
that are coming up because of that, and how it
just kind of an overview of the whole conversation about
women in weed and how how historically cannabis use has
(03:15):
been viewed in women and now kind of the conversation
now that's changing.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I like, how y'all are talking about this, And I'm like,
I have no idea what either one of you are
talking about. I have not been given any of these ads.
Oh if any government officials listening, I have not been
a part of those crew.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'm like, I don't know what, y'all. I would never.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, And I mean the conversation of legality and all
of that also plays into this, which is interesting. Quick
content warning up top, obviously, like I'm going to be
talking about weed, cannabis. I'm going to keep using the
word weed just because that's the word that I use
mostly in conversation with my friends, but of course, yeah,
just referring to cannabis generally in this conversation. Of course,
(04:03):
I'm going to be mentioning misogyny and racism in the
War on drugs historically, and also kind of current weed
culture in the what industry, as well as the mentions
of diet culture and its relation to advertising.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So just want to put that up top.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
One more quick disclaimer, since we're talking about cannabis, I'm
not a doctor or a legal expert, so please don't
listen to me about any serious issues.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Everybody's body reacts differently.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Everybody has their own sort of experiences with cannabis.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I will be talking about my own experience.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
A little bit, but don't take that as like the
you know, word of the law of how these things.
You know. Again, everybody processes things differently, like don't I'm
a mess.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Don't come to me for medical advice or.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Legal advice because yeah, I do, hope, Or I live
in a state where weed is decriminalized. Actually, at this point,
the only two places I've ever lived we just currently legal.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So I'm coming in it from that perspective.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
That being said, of course, like I'm coming into this
with the with the assumption that you know, people use drugs,
people use weed. I'm not putting any sort of moral
value to that. Whether or not it's something you want
to partake in, that's your choice. Personally, I'm somebody who
partakes in that but yeah, so as we say it,
(05:29):
it kind of at the top this episode. Originally wanted
to do this episode because well, as as somebody'll know
about a month ago, I it's in an episode about
the whole conversation about girlhood on TikTok and like all
these like girlhood trends and girl insert.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Word, and how that kind of.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Spiraled into a lot of different weird stuff and.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, basically, girl, why is this happening?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Rude col Rod, I have a lot of us on it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Anyways, we're not gonna get all that tangent again.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
A big sort of problem I was seeing with that
was the way it was making its way into advertising,
particularly things like Girl Dinner and Girl Math and girl
all those things. How that kind of was being used
as like a marketing tool. Now I got another really
weird targeted ad recently, this time on Hulu, and this
sort of set me into a spiral thinking about weed
and the conversation about weed and women and all that.
(06:28):
So I made the mistake of not recording this ad
or writing down what the company was. I have not
been able to find it again that I will do
my best to describe it to now Samantha nanny. I
have a question for you, which is that are you
familiar with the narrative structure of your average paper towel commercial.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
It's my favorite narrative structures. It's one of the.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Premiere exports of American culture, I think. But basically this
sort of commercial usually looks like is there's.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
A white eight couple.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
The mom is clearly doing the majority of the housework.
They live in a nice, very clean, unlived in looking
suburban household.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Usually she's talking about like, ah, my kids.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Are so crazy, they're leaving their stuff all over the place,
and my husband doesn't do any work.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But I've got XYZ product to help me out.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
This was basically the same structure of the commercial that
I saw for.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Weed gummies, which I thought was really.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Interesting because especially when you look at kind of historically
the war on drugs and a lot of the cultural
forces that were behind the war on drugs, it's interesting
to see the sort of idealized white suburban two point
five kids, very clear gender roles, household being now the
face of trying to sell cannabis and trying to sell
(07:53):
beat gummies, something that's sonat to bea this particular commercial,
was there was a bit where she's like my husband
is like he's a total stoner, but not me, Like
I'm a girl, I don't know how to smoke weed.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So because the.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Whole thing is it's very like you know which, I'm
not going to get into the like taking gummies versus smoking.
I think that's a personal choice, but the implication is
like smoking's gross. I need to take these nice health
supplement gummies and like frame it in a way that
it's like, no, it's healthy and it's good and it's
and it's the whole thing is like it's helping me
calm down from the.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Chaos of my life.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
And I mean I would argue, yeah, that is a
benefit of weed, and it's something that draws a lot
of people to weed. Is the fact that it is
something that calms a lot of people down. It is
like a stress reliever. But yeah, the way that this
was being framed it very much was fitting into that
traditional again, two point five kids, white, suburban, middle class family,
(08:47):
paper towel, commercial main character thing.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yes, and I've seen these.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I've seen these and I am one of my skills
is I am so good at skipping you two bats.
I know that fifteen second mark, and I can skip it,
but they know that you're gonna skip it. So there
was one where like the couple was in bed and
they're very like obnoxious couple.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
They're like over the top and they're in bed and.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
She's like, I just did weed with my dad and
then he like.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Spits out his worners, like what and the fifteen second skip.
So I never saw beyond that art. So it's so fascinating.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
I just I think this commercial really like this and
this these types of commercials that we're both getting, because
this wasn't the only one. I've seen variations of this
commercial over and over again. I've seen similar things what
you're talking about. I think this really signals kind of
a shift in the conversation about weed and the way
that weed in cannabis use has been normalized to a
certain extent. So basically, like whenever we're talking about this
(09:52):
sort of thing, Basically, since the US became a consumer
centric society, while men are traditionally the ones who are
seeing to be like making the money and working.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Jobs and creating and selling.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
These products, women are seen as the primary consumers. So
I think it is really important to look at how
these things are being marketed towards women, particularly to really
understand the conversation about something within our sort of capitalistic sphere.
So yeah, so this is the latest of that. Some
quick background, really quick. While medical use of cannabis has
(10:24):
been legal in some states across the US since nineteen
ninety six, Colorado became the first state to legalize recreational
lead in twenty fourteen, so just ten years ago. Now
ten years later, recreational marijuana is legal in twenty four states. Again,
that includes the only two states that I've ever lived in,
which are Illinois and New York Georgia. It seems like
(10:47):
it's to criminalize in small amounts and like for some
medical uses.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I don't know if you guys have any anything else
sort of any other info on that.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
There's still a big debate with it. There's need yeas
and bills being passed. There's a lot of headway in
trying to get medical access. We just discovered that yes,
you can get I think less than five percent as
in like the concentration level for anything, which is I
guess how it got into the non alcoholic drink.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
We had and we.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Talked like what is the world and it's effective as hell,
but like the overall intent, like they know that it's
a big money maker for the state, they really are
having a hard time in letting that go. Other than that,
because it is a big money maker, they've made all
tons of money with bills and bonds. There are still
(11:41):
people in jail for marijuana in general, Like there's no
stopping all of that. So the it's really complicated here.
It's supposed to decriminalize in that it's not a misdemeanor
as opposed to a felony, but that doesn't mean they
can't get you because there's like hashish apparently that has
a deeper concentration can still get you.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Five years and interesting.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
So it's complicated.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, complicated, that's yeah, I think that's the best way
to some of these. It's complicated.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And once again, as I saw at the top, like
I'm not a lawyer, I'm not about to try to
give you a definitive answer, and like this whole conversation
and most states has been really complicated, and things keep changing,
and so much of it is so I mean, the
whole thing is is just politics.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So it it really and racist.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, it's all you know, none of it act that
the real issue is never actually the weed, it's always
the you.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Know, underlying things.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
So but yeah, not to say it is very complicated.
I bring up this idea of legalization and the fact
that it is fully legal in twenty four states to
(13:00):
introduced this idea that like, this conversation about weed is
so so different than it was like even five years ago.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And hence that's you know why Annie and I.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Are getting a lot of Bees advertisements all of a sudden,
but are framing weed in a way much differently than
it had been in the past.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Uh So, and.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Because you're like, yeah, has already said an idea, So
I guess I always thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I'm just not one of the cool kids. It's okay, right,
you just say no kids, just exactly this is your
brain on drugs.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So I I do want to hear more about the
THHC infused not alcoholic liquor you guys had, because that's
not an interesting it's effective.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I got home just the time.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
But to contrast this in it, let's talk a little
bit about women and the War on drugs. Historically, historically
feels like the wrong word to be talking about the nineties,
but whatever. I found this article from nineteen ninety one
in the Berkeley Journal of Gender Law and Justice called
(14:15):
the War on Drugs a War on Women. That again
is from nineteen ninety one, which was sort of the
peak of the War on drugs in full full swing,
and also around a time when this article doesn't.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
It talks about drugs very broadly. It's not just talking
about weed.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It's also talking about like cocaine and a lot of
different drug use all sort of group together.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
But the article speaks.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
About how poor women of color, particularly war were impacted
by the War on drugs and some of the unique
kind of issues that poor women of color faced and
during this era. The article states the statistics quote indicate
that poor women of color do not fall into any
categories with the highest incidents of drug use. However, the
(15:03):
consequences of addiction to or any association with drugs can
be much harsher for poor women of color do do
poverty and discrimination. There are a number of factors that
lead to the disproportionate impact of the War on drugs
on women, including the feminization of poverty, connection to family life,
and including specific laws the target drug use in pregnant
(15:24):
women this I found particularly interesting, especially in a time
when reproductive rice are under attack once again. On the
feminization of poverty and the role of women in the
war on drugs, the article states quote, if they are
not involved in the drug trade directly, they are found
guilty by association with their children, other family members, friends,
and associates. In both the criminal and civil contexts, the
(15:47):
law is used to destroy families and neighborhoods without attempting
to address the underlying causes of drug addiction and abuse.
The article also again yeah points to concerns about pregnancy
and motherhood, stating quote, criminal prosecution for fetal abuse, like
all of these other war tactics, is exercise in a
racially discriminatory manner. Seventy one percent of all women charged
(16:08):
with fetal abuse are African American. The most commonly preferred
reason for such action is purported concerned for the child's welfare,
but the sudden concern for the welfare of black babies
prompt suspicion. So the article connects us back to the
historic dehumanization of black women and black mothers, stating quote,
this particular strategy and the current war on drugs is
(16:29):
a continuation of the dehumination of black women that has
its roots in slavery. In those times, the slave master
controlled reproduction through forced breeding, manipulation of marital choices, and rape.
After giving birth, slave women were often denied the right
to keep or care for their children. More recently, poor
women of color have been subject to force sterilization, while
their ability to choose other means of reproductive control, such
(16:51):
as abortion, has been severely limited. And I think this
is a really interesting point to start from. Again, Like
I said, we're living at a time when reproductive health
is under attack.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Again.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Women are expected to carry children whether they want to
or not. And a lot of times, the particular scrutiny
that is put on women that use drugs like marijuana
or any other substance, it has to do with a
sort of pseudo concern for the fetus and for the children.
(17:26):
And you know that already on it in itself is
very complicated and has a lot of messed up connotations.
But when you put that into context, the fact that
these same sort of social structures that want to keep
read something that's illegal and something that is taboo, these
(17:47):
are also oftentimes the same sort of social structures that
want to limit women's ability to have any sort of
reproductive freedom.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So yeah, that's to say I do.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I think all of these issues are connected, and I
think any sort of like control over women's bodies are
people that can become pregnant over our bodies. That is
something that is going to be politicized, is going to
be used against us when it can be. And I
think that also is interesting to look at and contrast
to going back to this idea of the commercial image
(18:23):
of people now that are using weed, there's this idea
of like the weed mom that's kind of coming out
now that's sort of replacing the idea of like a
wine mom, that commercial that I talked about at the top.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I think that that's.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Kind of a quintessential example of the like, Ah, I
just I'm so stressed out because my kids are crazy
and my husband doesn't help out with the house at all.
I guess I'm gonna take some gummies to go onwind,
which you know, I have no problems with that. Motherhood
is stressful, I cannot imagine. But yeah, I think there
is there's an interesting character that's being created by these
(19:01):
sort of marketing narratives of this usually white usually more
affluent mom who is using weed, and that is something
that is just kind of like funny or you know,
it's a way to calm down. And that being contrasted
with the historic scrutiny on particularly poor women of color
and their use of you know, either weed or any
(19:22):
other sort of substance.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Just because people like to use substances.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I mean again, like all of these things that bring
yet well, people are using weed because they're stressed out
or because X y Z, But like people have used
weed for all of human existence, Like it is kind
of one of those things. It's the same with like alcohol, Like, yes,
we should talk about the issues, or we should talk
about health issues or sociological issues.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Related to it.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
But it is saying that people are immoral simply for
using something something is kind of counterproductive.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, so obviously, and again, all of these stigmas that
existed during.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
The height of the War on drugs, they still exist.
They still exists in lots of personally the country, but
so does capitalism. And since weed is now legal in
the growing majority of the country, that means that these
sort of shame and puritanical values that used to lead
the conversation about weed are now being overshadowed by the
one force in this country with more power than puritanical
(20:21):
values and shame, which is capitalism. And as a result,
we're seeing this very rapid brandification of the weed industry.
If you walk into a dispensary in any state where
it's legal, I'm sure you can see lots of you know,
new shiny brands of which, again I'm not saying that's
(20:41):
a bad thing. That's again just part of American capitalism
as it exists right now, but it's definitely very different
than I think previously the like purchasing of weed was
imagined to look like.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And so as cannabis becomes more.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Normalized, more mainstream, I think we're seeing gender become a
much more important part of this whole marketing process. So
one of the most infamous historical examples of gender marketing
is of course cigarettes, and I think it's really interesting
to look at how the marketing tactics used to sort
of feminize smoking nicotine back in the day are now
(21:22):
being used to feminize smoking weed or using cannabis. Again,
a lot of times it's more for gummies than it
is for actually smoking. And this isn't to say that
I think like the cigarette industry is evil. I'm not
saying the weed industry is on the same moral foot
ig as the cigarette industry. That's very different, but we're
(21:42):
seeing some of the same tactics, which is that in
some versions the products are sort of being marketed in
a way that's quote like four girls or toned down
or sexy. It's made to look at make you look sexy,
and in other cases it's seen as something that's like
empowering or liberating. And through this kind of new marketing
of making products that are particularly for women or for girls,
(22:05):
we're seeing things like the pink tax come about, which
is where, in dressing up a product in a way
that's like aesthetically pleasing or like girly or pink or whatever,
you can charge more for it.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Because it's for girls.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
So if you don't know what the pink taxes, According
to Investipedia, the pink tax is the tendency for goods
and services to marketed towards women to be more expensive
than those targeted at men. And that's why a lot
of times and weed is kind of the more recent
version of this, but you see the gender binary sort
of imposed on these products that I would.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Argue don't need to be gendered.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I don't think there's anything about weed that makes it
different for men or women or whatever gender you are
to insume it. And yet again there is sort of
this culture of marketing things in a way towards women.
But then you're like, okay, and I can charge them
a little bit more if because we're making it pink
and we're making it for girls. And look, this in
(23:07):
and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. If
you want to spend a bit more money on a
product because it's like dressed up a little bit, all
power to you. I support that. I think the problem
is when this is the majority of the conversation or
the majority of the products being marketed towards women. Like
I will say, I've bought a few rose pedal joints
(23:28):
in my day that are definitely not necessarily for.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Practicality, just because they look nice.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
But yeah, these sort of marketing techniques particularly start to
concern me when they felled into more predatory tactics, and
when you talk about things being marketed towards women. A
big example of that is diet culture and the way
that these products connect to diet culture. So a product
(23:54):
that I got advertised the other day was for a
thhc V product. I'm not a scientist. I could not
tell you what those specific things mean. However, the way
that they marketed it was the company was called Blaze
and Chill and the product was called Lazy Days and
it's supposed to be weed that doesn't give you munchies.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I feel mixed thoughts on this because I have
one hands. I get it, like munchies can be annoying.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
And I know plenty of people that are like, I
don't want another thing that's going to make me want
to eat more, Like I to each their own. With
that that being said, I was like, huh, that's that
seems a little bit weird to be advertising this towards women,
in particular with don't worry it won't make you want
to eat more, because we know you ladies hate eating food,
(24:49):
especially when it's something like.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Weed that's like, I don't know you're supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It's supposed to be something for fun and relaxation, and
I mean, it can be really fun to eat while
you're high, I will say, but yeah, this is the
area where I start to get concerned because I think, yes,
this gendered marketing sometimes can be a little bit frivolous
and can be a little bit fun again if you want,
(25:13):
just like your fine little pink product. But when it
gets to the point where we are leaning into these
ideas of diet culture and body expectations and all of that,
that's when I start to get concerned, and I don't know,
that just does not seem like something that's going to
end end well from my perspective.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Well, interestingly, one of the other because I saw all
of these ads, they had a handful.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
One of the other big ones was it was a
group of women after.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Like a brownie night, I must assume at a book
club and they're all like passed out, and they're like,
are you out.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Of drinking and the hangover? Take your weed gummies.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
But it also was like, you won't get the calories
from drink, You'll just get the the high. But going
back to that idea of like the wine mom and
the weed mom, there was this big concern about like
a past house. Bridget did an episode on it about
like the rise of drinking to essentially deal with Trump
(26:25):
and the patriarchy, and so it became all like the
wine mom who is miserable and she's drinking just to
like get through the day.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And now it's like, well, people.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Are kind of moving away from alcohol, they still want
to be thin, but nothing's really gotten better.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Take your weed right right, And this is will to say.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I mean, I think I think the whole conversation about
wine Mom's like that it's its own very complicated thing.
I think a lot of times, like you said, it's
rooted in these real world stress and expectations that a
we live in. We live in a world that is
very hostile towards women or to anybody who is not Assistan.
And then also you know a lot of times motherhood,
(27:03):
all of these things, they're they're very stressful there.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
You're not given a lot of support.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
We don't live in a culture that lends women or
people that are doing this like a lot of support.
It makes sense that people are turning to alcohol and
then now are turning to weed because these are again
stress relievers, that's not And but then there is of
course then the concern of yeah, like when does it
become a substance abuse issue? When does it become a
(27:31):
thing to numb the pain up the rest of the
world and not something that you're just doing for fun.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And and.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I'm not getting a ton into substance abuse when it
comes to weed and here just because that I think
there is still like a lot of research that needs
to be done, and I that is a way bigger
conversation than I kind.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Of have the capacity to talk about.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
But yeah, I think these are things to remember as
we're seeing cannabis and we become more normalized and more
like mainstream ified. I do think it is also interesting
to talking about the way that this whole conversation about
how weat is being marketed towards women and these ideas
(28:15):
of like girl, weaed or wead for women kind of companies.
I think it's interesting to juxtapose that with the historic
and ongoing exploitation of women in cannabis product marketing and advertising,
as well as sort of the gender barriers within the
actual industry. I found this really fantastic piece from the
Denver Post that I will link in the notes called
(28:37):
opinion We'd bros still cling to a quote booth babes
and no girls in the grow sexist mentality, written by
cannabis journalists Lindsay Bartlett.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
She writes, objectification of.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Women's bodies is interwoven into the very language of weed,
from culs of bar names to packaging over sexualized marketing,
booth babes and trim bits. Rain names like mill, dirty
girl and tits have circulated the adult youth marketplace. No
matter how well it's grown, it tastes like violence. And
I will say, this is usually the kind of thing
I'm actually a little bit more skeptical about, Like I do.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Think sometimess like these kind of names sometimes could.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Just be a little bit funnier, like I think. I think,
But I do see where she's coming from. And I
think particularly Bartlett is writing as somebody who has worked
in the industry and has worked as a as a
woman in the industry and dealt with the misogyny of
the industry. I can see how that can be incredibly frustrating,
especially when you are contrasting it with the sort of
like she was talking about, the sort of no girls
(29:38):
and grow idea that exists in a lot of the
grow side of the industry. And so the fact that
this is happening and the fact that we're seeing again
like the prevalence of these kind of these more misogistic.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Names or this mentality.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
This is happening in tangent with discrimination cases such as
one in twenty twenty two that Bartlett writes about in
which quote, two former employees filed a lawsuit against a
Los Angeles based grow, alleging that the company discriminates against women.
One plaintiff was told quote is called jungle boys for
a reason, and that women were not allowed in the grow.
(30:17):
Bartlett also points to a twenty twenty one case in
which quote, a well known multi state cannabis brand posted
a photo of a woman being used as a table
with a rig, hash and other accoutrements placed on her
back to hundreds of thousands of consumers on social media.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Had a woman been invited to.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
The marketing table, she might have told them that using
this photo was a terrible idea. And that was the
one that really made me like, oh wow, okay, yeah,
that sounds like a very misogynistic image, and I think
that is something that is important to remember when is
contrasted again with these companies that are presenting themselves as
(30:58):
again like weed for women or read for girls.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
We're going to charge you a little.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Bit more for this, and then the mainstream weed companies
are very much leaning into these older misogynistic marketing techniques.
Like I mentioned earlier, this is very similar to the
cigarette industry, like a century ago. A lot of times cigarettes,
when they were marketed towards women, it was about how
like it makes you look so like classy and sophisticated,
(31:22):
or it's something that's very liberating for you. And then
when you see cigarette ads that were aimed at men,
they oftentimes like women were very much objectified.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
So yeah, and then if that's not enough to.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Be angry about, I want to bring up one more
case from that article that Bartlett wrote in which he says,
quote in twenty twenty four, so this year, a recent
lawsuit audaciously claims that social equity regulations in New York,
which have attempted to safeguard licenses for minorities, women and
(31:56):
those hit hardest by the War on drugs, are discriminatory
against men, and men hold the majority of sea sweet
roles in weed, and so things really stuck out to me.
I also work on Brigit Toad's podcasts. There are no
girls on the internet who's often on this show, and
this is something that comes up a lot on that show.
So Ever, since the Supreme Court ruling against defirmative action
(32:18):
last summer, there had been a wave of lawsuits against
programs and measures that have attempted to reverse some of
the deep, deep rooted inequalities in all aspects of the
American economy and systems of power. And these lawsuits are
concerning for so so many reasons, and they also are
just like contra to reality.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And like in that.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Quote from Bartlett, she states, you know, the majority of
sea suite roles in the cannabis industry, as well as
every other industry that's being targeted by these sort of lawsuits,
are still held by men, and usually white men. So
there's this this whole sort of panic over this isn't
happening in a vacuum, every sort of moral panic that
(33:01):
we're seeing over again any kind of small steps to
reverse the historic inequality that exists in a lot of
our systems. DEI is the big kind of buzzword thing
that conservatives are attacking right now. Cannabis, the cannabis industry
is just the latest sort of victim of this very
(33:24):
I want to say short sighted, but it's not really
short sighted because the people doing these lawsuits know exactly
what they're doing. But yeah, the cannabis has become the
latest victim of that. So I looked a little bit
more into this New York lawsuit. So basically, when weed
was first legalized in New York and a similar thing
happened in Illinois, I don't know if this happened in
other states. I'm sure similar programs were put in place,
(33:44):
but those legislation mandated the investment of forty percent of
all adult use cannabis tax revenue toward rebuilding communities harmed
by the War on Drugs. That's according to the New
York Office of Cannabis Management. And also the law quote
established is a goal of awarding fifty percent of all
adult use licenses to distinct see social and economic equity
(34:07):
groups including individual or individuals from a community disproportionately impacted
by cannabis prohibition, a minority owned business, a woman owned business,
distressed farmers, or service disabled veterans. And so the case
that is currently happening in New York, a pair of
white dudes were mad that they had to wait a
little bit longer to get a dispensary license, and so
(34:30):
now they're suing the State of New York saying that
this policy that tries to prioritize communities that have been
more historically impacted by the War on drugs is somehow
being racist and misogynistic to them as white men, to
groups that have historically faced a lot of discrimination in
this country. They are being represented pro bono by the
(34:53):
Pacific Legal Foundation, which is a libertarian law firm.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Just putting that out there. A lot of these cases.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Seem to be getting pro boon representation by activist law firms.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Wonder why that is. And I will say, all of
this being.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Said, then New York cannabis rollout, like industry rollout, has
been kind of a mess.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
So I'm not too worried. Knock on wood, We'll see.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
But there actually is another lawsuit ongoing in which four
women are suing the State of New York for.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
The opposite reason. The way that the.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Licensing system works right now is there's kind of this
lottery system that randomizes the queue for cannabis licenses, and
the women are claiming that the system doesn't actually do
anything to help them kind of gain more, you know,
of a priority.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
There was an article in which they spoke with.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
The lawyer who is representing these women, and they said
that they're actually not going to pursue a like discrimination
case because that would be too complicated. They're they're sort
of more looking at it as a like, Hey, this
system isn't really working.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Can be fix it so that it actually works the
way it's supposed to.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
And also one work quick tangent about this whole case
and everything going on in New York. According to a
Forbes article on the lawsuits and sort of just the
overall chaotic state of the weed industry of New York, quote,
as the legal retail industry has flagged, unlicensed weed retail
stops spots had exploded, with more than fifteen hundred unlicensed
(36:27):
operations compared to just nine legal venues.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
So like, I don't know if there's a lot you
could take.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Away from that, I would argue there are, you know,
maybe bigger things to figure out than making sure that
two white men who really really want to open a
dispensary are feel like they're being treated fairly.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I don't know. Anyways, the whole.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Kind of weed legal weed industry rollout has been a mess,
and I think that also is important to think about
when we talk about these kind of issues.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Yeah, I think it's just the a quick point to
remember that arrests are still happening on the federal level,
like a pretty substantial amount of people who are being
arrested for possession. And yeah, that federal level is a
big concern. That's been a conversation that's been happening for
a minute. And again it is disproportionately the black community
who was being arrested, which is kind of hilarious that
(37:23):
the corporate worlds, that capitalist world are like, yeah, let's
jump on. It is not really going well and people
are still getting arrested, but we can still make money.
And again, the majority of the shareholders are white men
who have been less impacted from jump from beginning, like
we know when we've heard many stories where white men
are able to get out of having smoking openly, while
(37:47):
people from the black community are literally planted with buds
and then arrested for years and years and years and
I'll go into debt because they have no money to
do bond and all that stuff. So it is still
important to remember that, yeah, this is going one way,
and we wanted this to be equitable for all peoples.
But the fact that people are still being arrested and
(38:07):
incarcerated on top of that being arrested with multiple charges
because they've already had a bad record with weed and
typically a lot of these accounts these people are is
just weed and can never get back on their feet,
meaning they can't get jobs, meaning they're still blacklisted from
so many organizations when they just had perhaps a couple
(38:28):
of toques, essentially like just literally having a couple of ounces.
Because even in the state of Georgia, one ounce can
get you still up to a year or a ten
thousand dollars fine, like Getler five to ten thousand dollar fine.
It's accordant to who you are, if you have representation
and or how the arresting officer fills that day. So
it's really just absurd of what this is happening, because
(38:49):
the discrimination and the discrepancies on how this is looked
at is so wide ranging that it's almost a legend. Oh,
you know, they tell you like as this is like
a folklore, don't go to this area. You know, it's
just so absurd.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
For sure, It's it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I mean, and I think that that is that's such
an important point. It is important to remember, like, yeah,
it is still criminalized, and a lot of this country
is still criminalized on a federal level. And I think
again I opened with talking about the commercials that I'm
getting and talking about these sort of marketing techniques we're seeing,
(39:29):
because you really, it is such an obvious example of
the fact that there's just like two vastly different worlds
that exist in the US, and it is one hundred
percent based on who you are, what your identity is,
how much money you.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Have, Like.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
I can come on here and I can I can
joke about, you know, having used weed and talk about
this is a like, you know, sociology, Like let's talk
about these images of that we're seeing issue. And then
at the same time, there's people being arrested for way
less and serving serious jail time. There are people that
(40:12):
you know, the reason that all of these legislations, the
reason that there's there's so much emphasis on making sure
that these communities that were most impacted by the War
on drugs and individuals that were impacted by the War
on drugs, how that making sure that those people can
now perceive the benefits of the like legal cannabis industry
and can maybe have like a fast pass to getting
(40:37):
license to sell cannabis recreationally.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
And all of this. It's because the War.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
On drugs ruined lives and ruined communities, and that is
something that I think.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
We need to remember and we need to remember even.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
As and I do, I think it is like ultimately
a net positive that weed is being more normalized and
that can't of it consumption. It's seen as something that
is just like it's like having a beer, it's like
going out to a bar.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
It is just like a normal part of human life.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
But it's so important to remember, like that was not
that long ago, and that is where we're coming from,
and that is still the reality that lots of people
in this country face.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Yeah, and just to put a capra on it, our
vice President Kamala Harris has there's still people in prison
that she put in there for marijuana use like that
and has not she has not rectified that situation like
I want to. You know, we were so proud when
she became vice president, but we can't ignore mm hm
that a lot of our politicians had big hands in this.
(41:37):
Of course, I always argue about the fact that you
have to do what you have to do to get
to where you are. And for black women, for the
black community and in general, like that has to be
the game. They toe the line because that's the only way,
that was the only way for so many to get
to be able to make a difference and make changes.
But have to have that conversation, but are you making
(41:58):
those changes? And with talks about this because this is
a growing like we we get excited in that this
is a growing industry. We are becoming a little more
progressive and understanding this. But when it's not in a
line that is beneficial to everyone, that's that's the downfall
of this. And it goes with production as well and
who is being marketed and how it's being marketed and
(42:20):
who's able to get to it, And that's that level
as well. And like having these types of conversations at
a very new industry. This could be a great industry.
But yeah, already jumping into pink tech. Come on, like
it's all these levels right right.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
And on that note, I want to end with a
couple more positive later stories regarding weed and.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Women and nonsense men.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
So first off, a twenty twenty two Harvard Blood survey,
which looked at patterns of cannabis use in menopausal and
postmenopausal women, found that quote, nearly seventy nine percent endorsed
it to alleviate menopause related symptoms. Of those, sixty seven
percent said cannabis helps with sleep disturbance, while forty six
(43:18):
percent reported it helps improve mood and anxiety. This article
from the Harvard Med School website made sure to point
out that this research is fairly new, and there's lots
more that needs to be done to study the long
term effects. Unfortunately, you know, the other side of the
criminalization is that it made it very difficult for people
(43:40):
to do actual research on cannabis and its health benefits
or negative effects either side of that for many years.
But yeah, so we're kind of starting to see the
research in so that sort of research again. And yeah,
I mean this is one area in which this could
(44:01):
be very helpful for a lot of people that are
going through menopause or postmenopostal symptoms.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
And yeah, like whether whether you know we're.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Talking about THHC or CBD or whatever, physical and mental
relaxation and like the alleviation of pain and stress. These
are the things that drive people to want to use
cannabis to begin with, and so I think that's good.
I think this is important to be looking into how
this is, this tool can be used to help people
and to help us sort of deal with you know,
(44:33):
we talked about the whole issue of weed moms using cannabis,
but at the same time, like it is something that
is a stress reliefer, and I think that there is
a lot more research that needs to be done to
really fully be able to use the benefits of this
quick personal anecdote on this issue personally, And again back
to my disclaimer of the top, just because I'm saying
(44:54):
this not me, this is the same for everybody.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
It's not take medical advice for me.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
But weed is not really helpful for me, And like
navigating gender dysphoria and really like becoming more in tune
with my body. I dealt with really bad body dysmorphia
for like a very long time and wed with something
that really helped me overcome that and deal with some
of the harsher symptoms of having to deal with gender
(45:20):
dysphoria and body dysmorphia and all these all these things
that you know come about as we live.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Our lives, and I know that. I Unfortunately, I.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Tried to look into whether there was some like serious
research that have been done about gender dysphoria, and we
use there really has not been because, surprise, surprise, two
things that have historically sort of been sigmatized have been
cannabis and also any sort of gender debians or gendered
on conformity.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
So there has not been a ton of research.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
But you know, from discussions I've had with friends, it
does not seem like I'm the only one who's experienced this.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
And then one.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
More article that was written by that cannabis journalist Lindsay
Bartlett who wrote the article about sexism in the industry
which I was citing earlier. She also wrote a recent
article for Forbes called quote how Indigenous women are Revolutionizing
the cannabis Industry. I'm going to link this in the
show notes. It's a really awesome article, but totally check
(46:20):
it out. But she for this article, she spoke to
Mary Jane Oatman. Ha ha, very funny, but.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
I had to.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
But she is the CEO and executive director of the
Indigenous Cannabis Industry Alliance or ici AU.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
From the ICIA website.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Their goals are quote building an equitable and sustainable Indigenous
cannabis industry through sensible policy, education resources, educational and economic
opportunities for our indigenous entrepreneurs, tribal nations, and our communities.
And to provide access to Icia's network to connect tribal nations,
(47:03):
industry partners, advocacy groups, mentors, businesses, and aspiring entrepreneurs. So
the article goes into Oatman and how she got involved
in cannabis legislation and advocacy, and it says, quote Oatman
is the fierce advoca she is today because her grandmother
(47:24):
went to federal prison for growing in the nineteen eighties,
which created a tremendous amount of stigma and shame around
cannabis use and cultivation in her family. She goes on
to say the aftershocks of the War on drugs is
still felt, especially by indigenous elders. It is a regular
practice to have drug dogs and targeted search on the reservation,
says Oatmen. Her grandmother fears the police to this day.
(47:47):
My passion for doing this is because there are so
many grandmothers and grandfathers out there like my grandma, who
live in fear.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I don't want anyone to live in fear anymore.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
And I think that goes back to Samantha your point
about the fact that this is still something that is
federally prosecuted, and Indigenous communities and these indigenous reservations are
oftentimes particularly targets of these sort of searches, the same
way that a lot of like marginalized communities within big
(48:14):
cities are also targeted by these policies. And so I
really loved this article because I really felt like a
positive story about how communities that are most impacted by
this are now kind of finding some empowerment economically or
culturally through the cannabis industry.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
And then also something.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
That I really loved about this is that the article
spotlights not only the organization's activism around cannabis and cannabisry criminalization,
but also how it's not just something to be consumed,
but it is something that you know, has a lot
of potential as a sustainable material and has a lot
of potential to really have a lot of positive effects
(48:59):
in terms of like environmental activism. So indigenous communities and
land are often some of the first to be impacted
by a climate injustice and catastrophes, and because of that
Oapmen really talks about how important it is to look
at cannabis as an environmental issue as well. So she's
quoted in the article saying, quote, the future is in
(49:21):
industrial fiber. That is a transition needed for the climate
change work we have to do. Industrial fiber made with
hemp is the gospel. Cannabis can be smoked, yes, but
an industrial fiber, large scale manufacturing products breaking away from
the plastic industry. That's where tribes have a huge impact
given our land rights. This is also such an important
issue to focus on the whole war on drugs and
(49:42):
the criminalization of cannabis that really stunted a lot of
research that could have been done into how hemp can
be used as a sustainable material, and particularly how it
can be used as a substitute things like plastic that
are historically not very sustainable. So to end with another
(50:05):
quote from Oatmen from this article, she said, quote, we
need to do this in a way that does not
create a capitalistic commodity on the backs of other earth.
This is one of those campaigns Icia is working on
protecting mother Earth. Growing cannabis is an environmentally conscious way.
The benefits the gen x generations as an organization, we
will dig our heels in the sand to make sure
(50:27):
it is not a capitalistic approach but a human and
healing approach. And climate justice is so so important to
how we talk about the future. It is like maybe
the most important issue as we talk about the future,
and it is so tied to capitalism and industry.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
And I think Oatman's quote and Otmen's.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
Sort of perspective on all of this is so refreshing
to look at hey, like, this is an industry that
has so much potential for a lot of good impacts,
a lot of good work to be done.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
It has a lot of potential for us.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
To have a new sort of understanding of the earth
and a new relationship with the earth. So let's make
sure that we're not just using this as another thing
to kind of exploit the earth and exploit I'll do
all of the things that capitalism has historically done that
have led to the situation that we're in now with
climate change and the various environmental disasters that we all
(51:19):
kind of just live through. So yeah, I think she's
doing super important work. I hope that the Icia gets
to do more of this work and gets to really like,
these are the kind of stories I really hope that
we continue to hear from the growing cannabis industry, unless
of the just you know, this company used a super
(51:42):
misogynistic ad, or we're getting girl beed iteration for the
millionth time and it cost twenty percent more because there's
a bow on it.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
But yeah, so I want to stay hopeful.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
I want to say positive and yeah, and then Annie,
as I promised there was a Star Wars connection, I
was gonna say, my current stash box is a return
of the Jedi lunchbox that I bought when I was
like eight years old.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
It feels right.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
I believe Yoda was.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
If anybody it was.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
We also know about the holiday special and how fun.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
I do not accept any modern au of Star Wars
where the Millennium falcon is not just like a weed ban.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
It almost always And it's really funny because the lead
singer of the Mamas and Papa's a quote came out
from her recently where she saw Star Wars and was
like pointed at Harrison Ford and said, that's my weed dealer.
Speaker 4 (52:50):
I kneel like.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
There was Carrie Fisher quote to where she was also
like like I don't.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Like guy like it anyways, had to connect it back
to Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
This is so yeah, thank you. I want to see
a picture of this box camera now. Yes, oh, I
love it.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
They bound right next to them just in case, and
now they've destroyed it, knocked it over.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
But don't worry. I love it so good. And I
do really like the environmental points at the end. Because
it is birthday also for it is birthday.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
No, no, it's for it's it's it's April twenty second, right, oh,
because because my birthday is the twenty second of a
different month, so it was very important to.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Make that birthday is also a twenty second.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
I was like, I'm pretty sure your birthday is not
going no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
My birthday is not until the summer. But it is
April twenty second, his birthday. Close enough, close it up.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I think it's because a lot of companies, like when
I was in school, you would say celebrate on the Friday,
And I had a friend whose birthday was April twentieth,
and he was always like, earth to take my wind
out of the sales of my birthday.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Anyway, it's close. It's green week, you know, it's Alway's Day.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yes, well, thank you so much for coming on, Joey.
We always love having you. Of course, I believe there
will be some more breaking down of TikTok trends.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Oh yeah, definitely in the future.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Well in the meantime, where can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 3 (54:33):
You can find me on Instagram or Twitter at pat
not Pratt that's p at t n ot p r
a t T. Or you can also hear me occasionally
on There Are No Girls of the Internet with bridget Hood,
where we talk about a lot of things that might
be interesting to people who listen to this show.
Speaker 5 (54:56):
So yeah, go check this out always definitely and past
episode test min t oh yeah too, oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Okay, well, yes, thanks again Jerry for being here and listeners.
If you would like to connect with us, you can
you can email us at Stephania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mos
Stuff podcast, or on TikTok and Instagram at stuff.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
Whenever told you.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
We have a t belk store and we have a
book you can get where you get your books. Thanks
Zowis too, our super producer Christina, our excited producer Maya.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
And contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Hey, thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening
stuff I Never told yous.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
Foiction of My Heart Radio.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, you can check
out the Heart Radio ap Apple podcast or where you
listen to your favorite shows,
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.