August 26, 2026 • 49 mins
Women's magazines have a long legacy of influence that exists to this day. In this classic, we flip through the past of some of how some of the most impactful examples came to be.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And Samantha.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
And welcome to Stuff Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.
And today we are bringing back a classic that was
kind of a two-parter. We've already brought back the second
part of it.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Was it two or like four?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It might have been four. Knowing you, who was spearheading these,
it could have been.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yes, but we're talking about magazines and the growth of
magazines in this classic.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yes, yes. So we are back in the season, you know, fall,
beginning of school, where decoration are happening. We got first
the photos with the cute first day of school pictures.
You got to make it picture perfect. We got Halloween
and fall. No, we have fall first. You know, got
to get those leaves. Then we have Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.
(01:00):
And one of the reasons we started talking about this
is because this kind of really was pushed out by
magazines such as Southern Living, in which we are going
to talk about in this episode. And because of that,
I thought, hey, this is perfect. Let's begin this new
school year, autumn time, whatever you want to call it,
(01:21):
with this classic. So hope you enjoy it. And yes,
listen to the other parts because we got like three
more parts to this.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Hey, this is Annie.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And Samantha.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You, a production
of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
And welcome, y'all. This is our first full episode, isn't it,
of the year?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It is. It is.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And I am not off to a great start because
what I originally had planned versus what we have versus
what it has extended to, of course, this is my job, y'all. Anyway,
but yes, we are happy to come back and do
finally a full episode after being on vacay slash also
(02:19):
being sick. Really weird start to the year. But... You know, recently,
I think we actually mentioned how we had some great
conversations with people in our lives, specifically about gender roles
and how traditions and expectations have really structured our internal
judgment of ourselves. And what we think traditions should look like. Specifically,
(02:43):
I was talking with my partner's mother who has some
amazing stories of how she was able to overcome sexist
bias in her industry and in her life overall. She
is a Georgia Tech alum, so one of your people's
A & Es. She was one of the first in
the pharmacy program and graduated. She was super young, too.
(03:06):
Really huge accolades to her. She did some amazing things.
I remember when we were talking, my face just kind
of was like, what? What? Because she was just talking
about everything she was involved in. And I was like,
she was really paving some ways for a lot of
women in a very technical school. And she was even
told by her father she would never get in because
she was like, it's a school for dudes. What are
(03:27):
you doing? But she did. She graduated and she became
a pharmacist, which is amazing in itself. But also one
of the things that we also talked about while we
were there was about Southern Magazines because Southern Holiday time.
We all know that there's a lot when it comes
to preparing for the holidays. We've talked about this. We've
(03:48):
complained about this. And I have told you I would
never do it. I'm over it. I haven't even started it.
I'm not going to do it. Okay. But she talked
about how she grew up reading Southern magazines, specifically one
we will talk about later, Southern Living, and how she
was really taught this is the way you were supposed
to be as a woman. That everything you see in
this magazine, if you want to be a perfect, successful
(04:12):
woman in the South, this is what you follow. And
my mother was very close to that. In fact, my
house had tons of Southern Living magazines. Did you have
any of those?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I don't remember if we had Southern Living. My mom
definitely has... Still has a stack of magazines. I don't
know how old they are. But they were very much
in the same vein of, like, decoration ideas. recipes, advice,
things like that. So I don't know if I had
that specifically, but generally, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Generally, something like that. And there are so many more.
This magazine is so, so successful that it's one of
the highest-grossing magazines for Time, Inc. So Time Magazine's Time, Inc.
bought it not too long ago, I don't think. And
the amount that they make is unbelievable. unbelievable especially being
(05:04):
that it's only literally localized to the south so I
think it was based out of Alabama it may be
still not sure but they circulate over I believe 2.8
million copies and that was in like that's a low number.
I think at one point in time, they were acquired
(05:26):
by time magazine for $ 498 million in 1985. So like they,
they made it magazine. They made it. They're huge. Um,
and some of the other publications that time owns is
sports illustrated and it literally ranks up there with them
(05:46):
for how much they make.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Um, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And, If you've ever visited a waiting room in the South,
you've probably seen it yourself. If you need an example,
I'm sure you can find it at the grocery store.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Is it available nationally? Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, I don't know about nationally, but I've seen it
in the grocery store.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
If you come into the South, you have seen it.
There are so many replicates of it. Guns and Gardens,
as in fact, the person, I believe the old editor
of Guns and Gardens is now the new editor of
Southern Living. It's been featured by so many. They are
a standard. And when I tell you when it comes
(06:28):
to holidays, they go all out and people want this
magazine and try to replicate this magazine. I have seen
bloggers that have tried to replicate the perfect Southern Christmas,
as they call it, and it's based off of Southern
living traditions. And so when she actually brought up that
(06:49):
magazine was talking about how it really affected her and
her feeling like she has to keep up with the
standard and really try her best. And she was, unlike
my mother, a working woman. So she was a pharmacist
at the same time that she was raising her children,
doing all these things and trying to be the perfect
Southern woman and making sure she kept the perfect Southern
(07:10):
home and make sure that Christmas was a Christmas wonderland.
And again, I know we've talked about that. our own parents.
You do some things with your parents, your mother. But
like my mother goes all the way out. And one
day I'm going to have to take pictures because the
way she has like themed areas, not one theme, but
themed areas with two Christmas trees, three Christmas trees. So
(07:34):
she goes all out. And my partner's mom was talking
about the fact that she was like, yeah, this year
I've started to learn this was not healthy and I'm
not doing it anymore. And I'm scaling back. I'm scaling back. Oh,
and by the way, her scaled back, quote unquote, of
Christmas decorations is still ten hundred times more than I
(07:54):
have ever tried. Like, I walked in, I was like, what?
It looks great. It's very pristine and pretty. And like,
I was like, oh, look at all this Christmas stuff.
And she's like, this is scaled back. And I was like, wow.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I wonder what it used to look. I wonder if
it used to be like on par with my mother
with things in every room. Who knows? And of course,
just a disclaimer here, because I've been thinking about this previously, right?
Loving Christmas and the holidays and going all out. We're
not trying to tell anyone that that's a bad thing
or criticizing that at all in that way. If you
(08:31):
love it, keep doing it. I love seeing it. I
literally met, went to one of our neighbor's house and
she has so many holiday. I mean, she had, I
think we counted 12 trees. Like, not all of them
were full size, but they were decorated and they were everywhere.
And she was so excited to show it off. And
it was beautiful. And she was so excited about talking
(08:54):
about all of them and just like how she loves Christmas.
And I'm like, that's amazing. I wish I was that person.
I want to be that person. How do I become
that person? So doing that makes you happy. Please know
that we are happy for you. We're just pointing out
that most of the time, these types of activities are
typically women's responsibilities and often add more labor and work
(09:18):
for women. And much of the past media would only
deep the idea that being a good housewife would be
that they would make their home, again, like a winter wonderland,
that they were obligated to do so and to not
do it would be a failure as a wife and
a mother. So, again... Some of these things are amazing
(09:38):
and we love it and I love to see it.
And if you love it, that's amazing. So please know
we are not saying not to do it. We're just
saying there's also that flip side. And a lot of
the times these types of magazines perpetuate this. But go
moving on. We do with all of that in this
conversation and in the spirit of coming back to work.
(10:00):
we did what we do best. We went down the
rabbit hole of the history of women's magazines and how
they have influenced us over the years. And as an ex-millennial,
and when I say ex, I mean like Generation X,
because I'm I'm still very confused by this, that went
to school before the use of the internet. And we
(10:25):
used magazines and encyclopedias as our references for actual projects.
We literally knew how to do the bibliography with that. Yeah. Yeah.
I read through so many teen and 17 magazines growing
up and even collected a few. Not as many as
(10:45):
I think you might have, Annie. Did you have a
lot of magazines growing up?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I mean, I don't know that I have as many
as you think. I was Adventure Time. Okay. Was that
the magazine?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Disney Adventures. Oh, I knew Adventureland, right? think it was
a zoo magazine.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It was like towards kids and then i did get
entertainment weekly but i usually just did it for like
the actors i liked okay i i was thinking about
this the other day i had a really creepy shrine
to ryan gosling and i would take like the cuttings
from magazines and put them in this reese's box.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm going to describe it to you in great depth
later because it's really funny, but I will prevent myself
from embarrassing myself. So here.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Oh, I have a feeling that might be on our
next episode.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I will share. I will share.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
But yeah, like you had a few. I didn't get
any subscriptions as a kid. Of course, my mom had,
like I said, had some magazines. I did get some
like National Geographic magazines. I'm not really sure why. I
don't know who handed them down. And apparently some of them,
like the older ones, are worth money. I don't know.
Maybe that's an eBay thing. I don't know. And of course,
(12:07):
like you, I didn't necessarily cut out to put them
in a box, but I did do collages.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And you have to have like... You know, I didn't
do the ransom letter thing. That's too much. You know
how you cut up random letters. But, you know, I
think I did like my dream something and it was
all like magazine cutouts, essentially. So, yeah. So we went
to this. So just as a disclaimer, some of the
(12:34):
things we're talking mainly about the history of it, of
magazines and specifically women's magazines. Again, at the end of it,
we are going to kind of talk about Southern Living
because I did want to bring it back to it
because it's mainly subscribed by women. women um and it
was geared towards women so we're going to talk about
that we are going to do another episodes but i
think we're going to push it back because it's going
(12:54):
to be somewhat related to the the reese's box and
ryan gosling shrine of uh magazines today including teen magazines
so just as a big arc of like it's not
a series i'm not doing this again annie i swear
to god i'm.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Not yeah This is your New Year's goal. No more
12-part series. Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I do want to revisit some of the magazines and
subscriptions today. But again, this is mainly about the history
of it. And I don't think there's any content warning necessary,
but you know, It's the history of magazines, and when
it comes to history for things that are geared or
consumer-driven towards women, who knows?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Maybe just.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Condescending language, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yes, yes. Lots of condescending language, a lot of consumerism,
a lot of... We do talk about race even, so,
you know, there's a whole thing, I guess, but not
too triggering like our past episode, so..
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Here we go. Yes. All right. So when it comes
to the overall history of magazines, it is, of course,
a little bit murky. Most of the historical timeline for
magazines starts at the invention of the printing press. But
pamphlets and leaflets were used before that in countries like
China and around the world. But going by the invention timeline,
(14:34):
shall we say, the first magazine to ever be published
was the German magazine, in English translated, I'm not going
to attempt it, Edifying Monthly Discussions, which was published around 1663.
I was telling Samantha I've had four years of German.
I don't have the courage today to attempt it. And
(14:55):
this was quickly followed by French published magazines titled Journal
des Scavans, or later known as Journal des Savants in 1665,
And in that same year, England would publish The Philosophical Transactions.
And many more followed after that.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Obviously. According to a Britannica article, these journals, quote, summarize
important new books, but there are as yet no literary reviews.
Book advertisements by about 1650, a regular feature of the
news sheets, sometimes had brief comments added and regular catalogs
began to appear, such as the English quarterly Mercurius Laborarius.
(15:33):
I feel like I'm doing a spell. Or a catalog
of books, which was published 1668 and 1670. But in
the 17th century, the only periodicals devoted to the books
were short-lived and The Weekly Memorials for the Ingenious, which
was published 1682-83, which offered some critical notes on books.
(15:54):
And the Universal Historical Bibliotheque, which was from January to
March in 1686. The latter invited scholarly contributions and could
thus be regarded as the true forerunner of the literary reviews.
So this is kind of what was beginning. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And according to the same Britannica article, they say the first, quote,
periodical of amusement, or lighter reads, if you will, was
possibly started in 1672. They write, quote, the Mercure Galante,
renamed Mercure de France in 1714. It was founded by
the writer Jean Donneau de Vizet and contained court news, anecdotes,
(16:31):
and short pieces of verse, a recipe that was to
prove endlessly popular and become widely imitated. And of course,
this would all lead up to the beginning of magazines
specifically targeted to women. As the article writes, quote, in 1693,
after devoting some experimental numbers of the Athenian Mercury to, quote,
the fair sex, Dunton brought out the first magazine specifically
(16:53):
for women, the Ladies' Mercury. So let's talk about how
successful these experiments were. Right.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So much like today, all of the material and content
that was seen at the beginning of the women's magazine
era reflected what was happening during the time. As the
Britannica article writes, quote, women's magazines frequently reflect the changing
view of women's role in society. In the 18th century,
when women were expected to participate in social and political life,
(17:21):
those magazines aimed primarily at women were relatively robust and
stimulating in content. In the 19th, when domesticity became the ideal,
they were inclined to be insipid and humorless. After about 1880,
magazines began to widen their horizons again. And in 1770,
(17:41):
one of the noted first women's magazine, and I'm going
to put a disclaimer here, this is listed as the
first one to be published. But we know that the
dabbling began much earlier, so not the actual first women's published,
but the one that is most often listed and credited
as the first. It was the British magazine, The Ladies Magazine.
(18:03):
Very on the nose.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Here's a quote from the National Portrait Gallery about the magazine.
The Ladies Magazine, or Entertaining Companion for the Fair Sex, London, said,
was an early monthly periodical for women which dominated the
market for most of its run. It aimed to amuse
and improve, providing fiction, poetry, music, and social gossip, as
well as giving more space to fashion than its predecessors.
(18:26):
Its first issue in August 1770 included as its frontispiece
a plate titled A Lady in Full Dress in August 1770,
and it became the first magazine in any country to
regularly issue plates showing contemporary fashions. The early engravings were
uncolored until about 1790 when hand-colored ones were included.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
And during the time following, there were several other publications
that came around. Here's another quote from that Britannica article. Quote,
The New Monthly Bell Assembly, 1847 to 1870, and The
(19:07):
Lady's Treasury, 1857 to 1895, all contain verse fiction and
articles of high moral tone, but low intellectual content. And
the quote continues pointing out that there are magazines that
had a bit more depth, but they didn't really survive.
The article reads, there were attempts to swim against the tide,
(19:29):
such as The Female's Friend, 1846, which was one of
the first periodicals to espouse women's rights, but they seldom
lasted long, right? That lasted less than a year.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
But what did come around soon after was the birth
of the homemaker-based and practical advice magazine for women. One
of the earlier provided for this type of magazine was
the English Woman's Domestic Magazine, started by Samuel Beaton, with
the help from his wife, Isabella Mary Beaton. You can
listen to a Saver episode that I did on my
(20:02):
other podcast all about that. And her contributions would later
be published in her widely acclaimed book, Book of Household Management,
which was a collection of Isabella's work. And here's a
quote about that from that Britannical article. It was also
the first women's periodical to concentrate on home management and
offer practical advice to women rather than provide entertainment for
the idle.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
For the idol. How dare you? I guess it does
stretch differently. So a little more detail from the National
Portrait Gallery. It says, The Englishwoman's domestic magazine, London, published
by Samuel Orchard Beaton, began as the first cheap monthly
magazine for young middle-class women with a strong emphasis on
practical instructions and useful knowledge such as dressmaking, but only
(20:46):
occasional black and white engravings of French fashions. Domestic management
material was written by his wife, Isabella Beaton, and collected
as her book of household management in 1861. In 1860,
the price increased and more space was given to fashion
and fiction, with colored fashion plates and large fold-out embroidery
patterns and less to instructional material, as it was directed
(21:09):
to a wealthier and more fashionable readership. Between 1862 and 1864,
both Schilling and Sixpedia editions were issued, the first with
a fashion and fiction supplement, but from January 1865, the
supplement was absorbed into the magazine. The Parisian fashion plates
and imported were by Jules David, first issued in La
(21:30):
Menteur de la Mode. Yeah, no, I did that wrong,
but we're going to go on. One was included every month,
and then when the magazine merged with the Milliner, Dressmaker,
and Wirehouseman's Gazette in 1877, it continued to issue David's
plates until it ceased publication in 1881.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
There were and are many of these types of magazines
in the U.S. They are still with us today. Some
of the first magazines include Harper's Bazaar, which was started
in 1867, and the Goodies Ladies Book, which started in 1830.
And the Goodies Ladies Book actually had 150 women employed.
to hand-tint fashion plates. Previous episodes, we've mentioned them before.
(22:08):
And in this group of magazines, also, we can include
the Ladies' Home Journal. And here's some information about that
from Wikipedia. It was first published on February 16th, 1883,
and eventually became one of the leading women's magazines of
the 20th century in the United States. In 1891, it
was published in Philadelphia by the Curtis Publishing Company In 1903,
(22:32):
it was the first American magazine to reach one million subscribers.
And the Britannica article writes, the field of women's magazines
was finally transformed, however, by Cyrus Curtis with his Ladies'
Home Journal, founded 1883, edited by his wife Louisa Knapp Curtis.
This soon reached a circulation of 400,000 and under the
(22:52):
editorship of Edward W. Bach from 1889, broke with sentimentality
and piety to become a stimulating journal of real service
to women.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So the history of this magazine is pretty fascinating. We
have stories of editors, men, writing op-eds to oppose the
women's suffrage movement, saying things like, quote, a vision of
the women at home living the simple life and having
many more saying that women are enemies to themselves.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
That's nice. And then women employees, I believe this was
in the 1970s, were having sit-ins to demand a woman editor.
And by the way, it didn't work. But they did
get their own section, which according to Wikipedia says, they
wanted the magazine to recognize a wider variety of choices
for women's lives, as well as give greater attention to
(23:45):
women's issues such as sexual discrimination and abortion. Other activists
continue to protest and seem to have achieved some success.
They may not have liberated the ladies' home journal, but
they did help change perception of how the media could
portray women's lives, according to one source. And it is
something to note that the first editor of this magazine
was a woman, the wife, Louisa Knapp Curtis, but she
(24:08):
was there for less than a year, and it was
then taken over by the dude who really did not
like the women's suffrage movement.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
With the growth of women's magazines, there was what was
called the Seven Sisters, which was a group of women's
magazines that targeted women with husbands and children and were
to assist homemakers at the time. Within this list that
we can include the original Ladies Home Journal magazine, but
also Family Circle, McCall's, Red Book, and three that are
(24:39):
still circulating today, Better Homes and Gardens, Women's Day, and
Good Housekeeping. Which, yes, speaking of good housekeeping, the magazine
actually started in 1885, which is more than a century ago.
Here's a little bit about the magazine from an article
from mylifetime.com. On May 2nd, 1885, the first issue of
(24:59):
Good Housekeeping Magazine was published. Founded by Clark W. Bryan
in Holyoke, Massachusetts, the stated mission of the magazine was
to produce and perpetuate perfection, or as near onto perfection
as may be attained in the household.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Right. And the article continues, since early on, good housekeeping
took its mission of producing and perpetuating perfection in the
household seriously. In the late 19th century, the magazine published
groundbreaking articles about food safety and advocating for consumer protection.
As early as 1887, Good Housekeeping reported on topics ranging
from watered-down milk to candy contamination with asbestos. And yes,
(25:38):
they actually still have the Good Housekeeping Institute today. So
this thing exists. Here's a bit of information from Good
Housekeeping themselves. Quote, founded in 1900, the Good Housekeeping Institute
was at first called the Good Housekeeping Experiment Station. The
invention of electricity had introduced many new labor-saving home appliances,
but few consumers had any real knowledge of their operation
(26:00):
and maintenance. With the goal of studying, quote, the problems
facing the homemaker and to develop up-to-date firsthand information on
solving them. The staff at the GH Experiment Station tested
products and housekeeping methods and published articles about their discoveries
and observations. They also reprinted advice from readers who wrote them.
One reader offered a cure for calluses. She used olive
(26:22):
oil and cotton. Another reader advised about how to launder
lace drapes. And another gave tips about the best way
to clean a meat chopper. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I would also offer this reminder. This is before the
time of the internet. And if you listen to our
episode of Betty Crocker, this is really important. If you
were lonely in the kitchen and you didn't know what
to do, you would read something like this and be like, oh, okay.
And you felt less alone and you had these instructions.
You couldn't just go online and be like..
Speaker 2 (26:52):
YouTube has saved many of us from some disasters.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Exactly. And confusion.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Okay, but... Beyond just observing, at one point in the
early 1900s, Good Housekeeping made some huge controversies through their institute.
As the institute was getting bigger and their reputation was
rising with the promise of testing and giving seals of
approvals for different foods and products, that bled into advertisements
that the FTC would claim were exaggerated and false. And
(27:20):
that the magazine was making, quote, misleading and deceptive guarantees.
And this would lead to a lawsuit that would take
two years to get through and even had competitors from
the Seven Sister Group testifying against the magazine. The magazine
did drop tested and approved from their seal, but it
didn't really stop their growing popularity. And also, this continues
(27:42):
to be a point of contention. And again, you can
see the Savor episode we did about that. Maybe we
should just.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Publish it on ours.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
We should.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I think we should.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
We should. What company did that? They did the diabetes...
Good for your heart health. And it changed the way
we advertise. Cheerios? I think it is, but it's got
to be their parent company.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
But yes, yes. Whatever it was that was, like, good
for your heart. General Mills, right?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Something, yeah. But anyway.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Keep going.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, here is another quote from Good Housekeeping. Concerned about
adulteration and misbranding, home economist on staff also tested foods
for purity and published, starting in 1905, a Roll of
Honor for Pure Food Products each month. All this testing
at what was now called the Good Housekeeping Institute resulted
(28:32):
in December 1909 with the beginning of the tested and
approved list of all household products that were found to
meet the Institute's standards of excellence. Good housekeeping seal became
so well known that it has become part of the
lexicon with celebrities, governments, manufacturers, basically everyone using it. And yeah,
as you can see, they did not include the tidbit
(28:55):
about the lawsuit here.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Right. Found that interesting. I was like, huh, they still
said the seal. And you know what? They do some
big claims here. And here's what's happening with the institute today,
according to their site, quote, Today, the Good Housekeeping Institute
is located in the Hearst Tower in New York City
and staffed by chemists, biologists, nutritionists, engineers, home economists, and
(29:20):
culinary experts who evaluate thousands of consumer products each year
from microwave and mascaras to vacuums and towels. These reviews
are highlighted in the magazine and online. When products are
evaluated for the good housekeeping seal and the green good
housekeeping seal, which both represent good housekeeping So... Very consumer-like.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I don't like it. Actually, I just need to go
back and look and see if I've bought any of
those things, even though it wasn't based on there. Wait,
I can't say that out loud, can I? Then I
won't get a refund. Oh, no.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Well, we can't have that. And unsurprisingly, it took a
while for the magazine industry to change its trajectory, and
it didn't have any women editors until 1994. The first
six editors out of nine were all men, Though since
the first in 1994, the rest of the editors have
been women. So before we move on to localized magazines,
(30:33):
we did want to note some of the past advice
from this magazine and giving credit where credit is due.
The magazine recognized their own icks and published an article
titled The Good Wife's Guide to Helping Her Husband Succeed
at Work. The article begins with a disclaimer saying, in
our 130 years of publishing, we featured all kinds of tips, recipes,
(30:54):
and personal stories. Some smart advice still stands the test
of time. Others, well, not so much. Presented here with
no further comment is a feature from the January 1956
issue of Good Housekeeping. The basic premise, a hiring manager
offers his tips to a wife for helping your husband
succeed at work. Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Okay, this is also where we'll be like, yeah, this
is going to make you a little angry, but also
maybe make you laugh because you're like, what the hell?
So here's some excerpts from that article. We employers realize
how often the wrong wife can break the right man.
This doesn't mean that the wife is necessarily wrong for
that man, but that she is wrong for the job.
(31:37):
On the other hand, more often than is realized, the
wife is the chief factor in the husband's success in
his career. In the first place, she has a very
definite effect on a man's spirit. And then the article continues...
If a man has a peevish, nagging wife, if she
(31:57):
is jealous and possessive, if she is lazy or overambitious
or extravagant, that man is going to be unhappy. And
his unhappiness will interfere with his concentration on his job.
In the case of an important executive, this lack of
concentration can affect the outcome of a business conference. It
(32:18):
may even kill a profitable deal. Oh, dear. Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
So here is some advice that they listed off. A
good wife is friendly. A good wife's primary interest is
her husband, her home, and her children. And here are
some specifics to that. A good wife is there when
her husband needs her. She must be his sounding board.
She must be able to listen patiently without giving advice.
(32:44):
She must have the knack of commenting without interfering. Sometimes
it may be necessary for her to make sacrifices for
the sake of her husband and his business career. She
cannot be free to do this if she is dedicated
to a career of her own.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Ew, Annie. Yeah, don't have a career of your own.
This is why you're single.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
And then they go on and add the bad wife things.
And so it includes being a complaining woman, a dominating woman,
and the wife in a rut. And y'all... we have
to talk about this wife in a rut. And you
might be like, well, what is that? Well, they are, quote,
pathetic little creatures is just out of her element. She
(33:33):
is self-conscious, nervous, and awkward. Her taste in clothes is
usually pretty bad. Her conversation centers on babies and how
to wash the kitchen floor. 10 or 15 years ago,
she may have been the pretty little girl on Maple Street.
Her husband has become a man of the world, but
she is still on Maple Street. Oh, no.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
At least it's not Elm Street, eh?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Y'all, I mean, again, kudos to Good Housekeeping for understanding
how bad this was and also being able to call
themselves out on it. So, hats off to them, but damn.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I feel like I connect with this wife in a rut.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I'm like, wait, if all her life she's supposed to
be at being the perfect mom, what else is she
going to talk about but the child and how to
clean the floors?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
I'm not necessarily a wife of anything, but I sometimes
talk about how to clean the floors.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Right. My clothes are bad. It's cold. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I am definitely awkward. So how dare you, sir?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Exactly. Jeez Louise.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yes. It's such solid advice from the 1950s. But you know...
We don't know this. Good housekeeping wasn't the only ones
perpetuating this type of idea. And even more so, there
(35:09):
are magazines that were published more locally, like the one
that we were talking about earlier, Southern Living. And we
did want to kind of talk about what they have done,
what they represent a little bit of, the good and
the bad, I think, in it. Eventually, I think we
want to talk about the recipes from this, but we'll
come back to that. If you've ever, again, as we
told you earlier, if you travel through the South, and
(35:31):
I'm not talking about Florida, probably Florida, but more Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi,
South Carolina, Tennessee, and those areas, and beyond, Southeast area,
you have seen this magazine. The glossy picture of an idealistic,
decorated-to-the-tee home. It's like Martha Stewart is the designer of
(35:53):
this place, and it's all over the covers, just crisp
and clean. And inside are articles on how-tos and the
best recipes. And they even had floor plans. Like, they
had some amazing floor plans to the point that it
kind of started trends all over the South on what
kind of homes were being built. And when it comes
(36:13):
to the holidays, unmatched, y'all. Like, I can think of
one magazine with this tree that had a very, like, Southern...
I think it says Country Christmas is what it was called.
Of course, there's also a Country Living, now that I
think about it, magazine. I forgot about that one until
just now.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Not a miniseries, you say?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I'm not going to talk about it. But it's quite interesting,
these magazines, and they're very well printed and very prettily
put together. And again, I believe many of the older
boomer generations of women were haunted by the need to
follow suit of these perfectly decorated trees and such. Again,
(36:55):
my mom had full on themed Christmas trees. I think
one was like French country Christmas. One was like an
old traditional, that's what she would call it, because we
would have our old school children's ornaments that we loved
in one tree. So it was like she had to
distinguish the two. And they were trying to be the
(37:15):
ultimate decorators of their pristine, very pretty Southern homes. And again,
we've talked about how our mothers will go all out
for every season of the year to decorate. Again, my
mom has like apple-themed wreaths that go for the fall,
Easter-themed wreaths that go for spring.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Like, it's a thing.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
And it goes from the front of the house. I mean,
from the minute you walk up to the porch, again,
the wreaths, to the guest rooms, to the living rooms,
to the bathrooms, it's all there. And it's in part
to these magazines.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Right. Well, this publication originally came out in 1966. It
was published by the Progressive Farmer Company, which was the
publisher of the Progressive Farmer magazine. And this lifestyle magazine
is still one of the most subscribed to magazines. Here's
a bit about them from their own site. It was
for an article celebrating their 50th anniversary in 2016. Southern
(38:18):
Living is descended from the Progressive Farmer magazine, which has
roots in Raleigh and dates back to 1886. Southern Living
was spun out of that magazine's Lifestyle and Home Wife section.
which was popular among suburban housewives. The magazine has 2.8
million subscribers with about 14,000 who have been subscribers for
five decades.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
A large proponent of the magazine was the many different
recipes featured in the magazine. In fact, they started an
annual recipe book in 1979 and have been publishing them
ever since. Here's what they say on their website. The
1979 edition of Southern Living Annual Recipes, which has sold
well over 21 million copies since its first printing, was
(39:02):
just the beginning. The popularity and reliability of Southern Living Recipes,
coupled with the steady flow of comments, questions, and suggestions
from readers, led to a highly successful extension for the brand.
This annual cookbook has been published every year since.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
I want to say my mother would cut out these recipes.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
And I think... I have what I call like the
uh hillbilly taco salad which you've had before yeah it's
good like it's very odd that i think she got
from there and i think it was in sponsorship with
rice-a-roni which is what i use in this y'all.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yes so many recipes were like companies being like here's
how you can eat bananas and there's a whole book
of banana recipes but my mom has that too she
has a recipe box and just has like these cutouts
and they're like all folded and you can't read all
of it.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
No.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
She got from magazines.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I think I tried to do a homemade cake with
fudge icing for my mother for that. The cake did
not turn out so well. The icing was delicious, though.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
But, you know, with the things that were happening, and
this is what the appeal is, and many of the
women have followed suit and still, again, still subscribe. Man,
five decades worth for thousands of people for this magazine.
And I guarantee my mom has been probably a part
of that because she Like I said, I had it
as a child and I'm around 40 now, 40s, in
my 40s now. So knowing that she's had it for
(40:30):
that long. But the book has a lot of criticism
as well, including the glaring fact that the magazine was
based out of the South and at the time ignored
the racism and racial violence that was happening there. in
that time period and in that area. Some of the
articles point out the fact that this magazine existed during
(40:51):
one of the most heated times of the civil rights
movement and ignored the issues around them and that it
was proof enough that this magazine and a lot of
magazines like it whitewashed and overall completely refused to acknowledge
the issues that were happening. A specific researcher, and I
believe she was a student at the time, Summer Hill Vincent,
wrote about this for her dissertation titled Whitewashing Southern Living,
(41:12):
the Sociocultural Significance of the 1966 Magazine Launch in Birmingham, Alabama.
And in her paper, she writes about the issues of
how a still popular magazine hasn't really been studied when
it comes to their place in history during the civil
rights movement. Here's a quote from that. Historian James Cobb
explained that the whitewashing of history in Southern living occurred
(41:34):
in the aftermath of the Civil Rights Movement when white
Southerners scrambled to find an identity that was unique but
unrelated to racism. Quote, for many of them, that search
seemed to begin at the very end of the Civil
Rights era with the cleverly pleasing pages of Southern Living magazine.
He argued that it was no accident that a magazine
(41:54):
for white Southerners launched in the later years of the
Civil Rights Movement. And it goes on, that mirage hid
so much pain, as American Studies professor Alan Toulouse explained
in the 1979 article, Azalea Death Trip. Not only are
the historical rich folkways given an eye-catching or sentimental treatment,
which ultimately trivializes them, but sanction is given to a
(42:16):
way of looking at life, which eliminates its unpleasant, tragic realities,
its historical burdens, and its future obligations. By looking the
other way, the magazine endorsed a lifestyle that romanticized reality
and let white Southerners off the hook for their role
in the events taking place around them. Of course, this
is just a small snippet from that article, from that dissertation.
(42:40):
And I think it's a lot in conversation because there's
also a lot of identity put into magazines like this
and why mediums like this was so important. And when
we come back and talk about magazines' effects today, we
will talk about the fashion industry, and even the political
ideas behind it. But things like this have a huge
(43:02):
cultural impact. And again, as Annie was saying previously, this
was before the internet. This is how news traveled and
or what you thought other people were doing as well.
They might not be you, but they're out there because
you see this in this glossy, beautiful magazine saying that
you should be making these recipes and ignoring everything else.
There's even articles talking about how they ignored and didn't
(43:23):
have many Black community members as featured in any of
the articles, featured in any of the celebrations or any
of the conversations in this magazine, which was supposed to
celebrate all of the South at that time. There was
a recent article about how there needs to be a
reckoning for Southern living. And I say recent, I mean,
the last 10 years, because they were still featuring things
(43:46):
like plantations and showing tours about plantations and how they
ignored the history behind it just to show pretty pictures
of that property and making money. offer that property. And again,
not acknowledging what had happened there, what was going on there.
I think at one point in the article that they
did talk about the fact that one of the editors
were like, no, no, no, we featured Black people, look.
(44:07):
And it was like a handful, possibly a few times.
And there's a lot to say in that conversation. There's
also an article, which Annie, I told you about previously,
and I cannot not share. I'm not going to read
it necessarily, but I found it really, really funny because
there's a man complaining about how southern living has lost
(44:30):
its way and i was like wait what's happening um
and his complaint was the fact that it no longer
featured recipes it no longer featured like helpful guys or
how to's instead it was now trying to sell you
things or it was trying to uh tell you how
to be a better woman this way like sex life
but how to have a better sex life and all
these things and though he had a point i still
(44:52):
was like i don't know if i want to take
this I'm just saying, he's not wrong. Yeah. But I
don't feel like this is his place to say. I mean,
anyone can enjoy any of those things. But it's odd
to be like, you are teaching women better things. Go
back to that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
It is strange. And I think one of the things
when we come back, whenever that will be, probably February
with the next part, We've talked about before on this show,
I think past host Kristen and Caroline definitely talked about it,
but you know that with the internet, the magazine industry
has been in flux. There has been a lot of
(45:37):
pressure of how they're going to survive. I personally feel
like magazines are sexual luxury. I usually only get them
if there's Star Wars on the cover.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Or, I.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Don't do this, but my friends, when we go to
the beach or something, we'll get magazines. But otherwise, so
it's sort of an interesting... space they're in but there
are we also you should go listen um to our
old fanzine episode because there are places where it's like
really niche and it's growing so it's not that it's
gone away it's definitely a huge place for advertising i
(46:10):
will say right um but it it's a lot of
these big magazines that have been around for so long
are kind of questioning like well What are we now?
How do we keep going? What is this?
Speaker 2 (46:24):
And we're going to talk about this for sure when we...
It's not part two. I'm refusing to call it a
part two for the other episode that we were going
to do that's somewhat related to this about the whole
virtual magazines or how it is no longer in press
necessarily and is now all online. And what does that
(46:44):
look like? And then also talking about paywalls. And is
that a good thing? But how else do they make money? Advertising,
I know, but this is back and forth. And why
do I find it irritating to pay for a subscription online?
when I would have been willing to buy a magazine.
That's my own brain here. But again, who is affected?
Who isn't affected by this? Who is being targeted? Who
(47:07):
is being marketed to? But also, how is it still
making changes in society? Because again, a local regional magazine
that likes Southern Living has impacted society pretty deeply. And
the same thing with all the other magazines we talked about,
like as they have, thank God, transformed or hopefully are
(47:29):
transforming into being better messages for women and more inclusive,
I would hope, and less heteronormative. But, you know, like
what kind of impact they had on so many young women,
older women, so many of the things, expectations that it held.
(47:49):
And yeah, and what we bought because of it, like,
At one point in time, TikTok did not exist and
I was not influenced by TikTok. I was influenced by
magazines telling me I needed to go get this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
And a lot of those recipes would be like, hey,
you want to make this aspect? Guess what? You're going
to need this gelatin mold. Here's where you can get it.
Here's this.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Let me show you.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yes. You could send in your little mail-in coupon thing
and they will send.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It to you. I also clip coupons out of magazines.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah. Memories.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
What a world. Memories.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
What a world.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Memories um well do watch out for our next follow-up.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
We'll do a follow-up a valentine's day follow-up that's what i.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Thought it's gonna be a related follow-up and i will
open the box on my ryan gosling shine and it's
you're gonna laugh it's very embarrassing but in the meantime
listeners if you have any thoughts about any of this
if you still have any magazines or memories about magazines
fanzines you can let us know You can email us
at stephaniemomstuff at iheartmedia.com. You can find us on Twitter
(48:53):
at momstuffpodcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've
never told you. We have a TeePublic store and we
have a book that you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina,
executive producer, Maya, and our contributor, Joey.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
And thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
You is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And Samantha.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
And welcome to Stuff Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.
And today we are bringing back a classic that was
kind of a two-parter. We've already brought back the second
part of it.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Was it two or like four?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It might have been four. Knowing you, who was spearheading these,
it could have been.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yes, but we're talking about magazines and the growth of
magazines in this classic.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yes, yes. So we are back in the season, you know, fall,
beginning of school, where decoration are happening. We got first
the photos with the cute first day of school pictures.
You got to make it picture perfect. We got Halloween
and fall. No, we have fall first. You know, got
to get those leaves. Then we have Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.
(01:00):
And one of the reasons we started talking about this
is because this kind of really was pushed out by
magazines such as Southern Living, in which we are going
to talk about in this episode. And because of that,
I thought, hey, this is perfect. Let's begin this new
school year, autumn time, whatever you want to call it,
(01:21):
with this classic. So hope you enjoy it. And yes,
listen to the other parts because we got like three
more parts to this.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Hey, this is Annie.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And Samantha.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You, a production
of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
And welcome, y'all. This is our first full episode, isn't it,
of the year?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It is. It is.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And I am not off to a great start because
what I originally had planned versus what we have versus
what it has extended to, of course, this is my job, y'all. Anyway,
but yes, we are happy to come back and do
finally a full episode after being on vacay slash also
(02:19):
being sick. Really weird start to the year. But... You know, recently,
I think we actually mentioned how we had some great
conversations with people in our lives, specifically about gender roles
and how traditions and expectations have really structured our internal
judgment of ourselves. And what we think traditions should look like. Specifically,
(02:43):
I was talking with my partner's mother who has some
amazing stories of how she was able to overcome sexist
bias in her industry and in her life overall. She
is a Georgia Tech alum, so one of your people's
A & Es. She was one of the first in
the pharmacy program and graduated. She was super young, too.
(03:06):
Really huge accolades to her. She did some amazing things.
I remember when we were talking, my face just kind
of was like, what? What? Because she was just talking
about everything she was involved in. And I was like,
she was really paving some ways for a lot of
women in a very technical school. And she was even
told by her father she would never get in because
she was like, it's a school for dudes. What are
(03:27):
you doing? But she did. She graduated and she became
a pharmacist, which is amazing in itself. But also one
of the things that we also talked about while we
were there was about Southern Magazines because Southern Holiday time.
We all know that there's a lot when it comes
to preparing for the holidays. We've talked about this. We've
(03:48):
complained about this. And I have told you I would
never do it. I'm over it. I haven't even started it.
I'm not going to do it. Okay. But she talked
about how she grew up reading Southern magazines, specifically one
we will talk about later, Southern Living, and how she
was really taught this is the way you were supposed
to be as a woman. That everything you see in
this magazine, if you want to be a perfect, successful
(04:12):
woman in the South, this is what you follow. And
my mother was very close to that. In fact, my
house had tons of Southern Living magazines. Did you have
any of those?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I don't remember if we had Southern Living. My mom
definitely has... Still has a stack of magazines. I don't
know how old they are. But they were very much
in the same vein of, like, decoration ideas. recipes, advice,
things like that. So I don't know if I had
that specifically, but generally, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Generally, something like that. And there are so many more.
This magazine is so, so successful that it's one of
the highest-grossing magazines for Time, Inc. So Time Magazine's Time, Inc.
bought it not too long ago, I don't think. And
the amount that they make is unbelievable. unbelievable especially being
(05:04):
that it's only literally localized to the south so I
think it was based out of Alabama it may be
still not sure but they circulate over I believe 2.8
million copies and that was in like that's a low number.
I think at one point in time, they were acquired
(05:26):
by time magazine for $ 498 million in 1985. So like they,
they made it magazine. They made it. They're huge. Um,
and some of the other publications that time owns is
sports illustrated and it literally ranks up there with them
(05:46):
for how much they make.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Um, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And, If you've ever visited a waiting room in the South,
you've probably seen it yourself. If you need an example,
I'm sure you can find it at the grocery store.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Is it available nationally? Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, I don't know about nationally, but I've seen it
in the grocery store.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
If you come into the South, you have seen it.
There are so many replicates of it. Guns and Gardens,
as in fact, the person, I believe the old editor
of Guns and Gardens is now the new editor of
Southern Living. It's been featured by so many. They are
a standard. And when I tell you when it comes
(06:28):
to holidays, they go all out and people want this
magazine and try to replicate this magazine. I have seen
bloggers that have tried to replicate the perfect Southern Christmas,
as they call it, and it's based off of Southern
living traditions. And so when she actually brought up that
(06:49):
magazine was talking about how it really affected her and
her feeling like she has to keep up with the
standard and really try her best. And she was, unlike
my mother, a working woman. So she was a pharmacist
at the same time that she was raising her children,
doing all these things and trying to be the perfect
Southern woman and making sure she kept the perfect Southern
(07:10):
home and make sure that Christmas was a Christmas wonderland.
And again, I know we've talked about that. our own parents.
You do some things with your parents, your mother. But
like my mother goes all the way out. And one
day I'm going to have to take pictures because the
way she has like themed areas, not one theme, but
themed areas with two Christmas trees, three Christmas trees. So
(07:34):
she goes all out. And my partner's mom was talking
about the fact that she was like, yeah, this year
I've started to learn this was not healthy and I'm
not doing it anymore. And I'm scaling back. I'm scaling back. Oh,
and by the way, her scaled back, quote unquote, of
Christmas decorations is still ten hundred times more than I
(07:54):
have ever tried. Like, I walked in, I was like, what?
It looks great. It's very pristine and pretty. And like,
I was like, oh, look at all this Christmas stuff.
And she's like, this is scaled back. And I was like, wow.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I wonder what it used to look. I wonder if
it used to be like on par with my mother
with things in every room. Who knows? And of course,
just a disclaimer here, because I've been thinking about this previously, right?
Loving Christmas and the holidays and going all out. We're
not trying to tell anyone that that's a bad thing
or criticizing that at all in that way. If you
(08:31):
love it, keep doing it. I love seeing it. I
literally met, went to one of our neighbor's house and
she has so many holiday. I mean, she had, I
think we counted 12 trees. Like, not all of them
were full size, but they were decorated and they were everywhere.
And she was so excited to show it off. And
it was beautiful. And she was so excited about talking
(08:54):
about all of them and just like how she loves Christmas.
And I'm like, that's amazing. I wish I was that person.
I want to be that person. How do I become
that person? So doing that makes you happy. Please know
that we are happy for you. We're just pointing out
that most of the time, these types of activities are
typically women's responsibilities and often add more labor and work
(09:18):
for women. And much of the past media would only
deep the idea that being a good housewife would be
that they would make their home, again, like a winter wonderland,
that they were obligated to do so and to not
do it would be a failure as a wife and
a mother. So, again... Some of these things are amazing
(09:38):
and we love it and I love to see it.
And if you love it, that's amazing. So please know
we are not saying not to do it. We're just
saying there's also that flip side. And a lot of
the times these types of magazines perpetuate this. But go
moving on. We do with all of that in this
conversation and in the spirit of coming back to work.
(10:00):
we did what we do best. We went down the
rabbit hole of the history of women's magazines and how
they have influenced us over the years. And as an ex-millennial,
and when I say ex, I mean like Generation X,
because I'm I'm still very confused by this, that went
to school before the use of the internet. And we
(10:25):
used magazines and encyclopedias as our references for actual projects.
We literally knew how to do the bibliography with that. Yeah. Yeah.
I read through so many teen and 17 magazines growing
up and even collected a few. Not as many as
(10:45):
I think you might have, Annie. Did you have a
lot of magazines growing up?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I mean, I don't know that I have as many
as you think. I was Adventure Time. Okay. Was that
the magazine?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Disney Adventures. Oh, I knew Adventureland, right? think it was
a zoo magazine.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It was like towards kids and then i did get
entertainment weekly but i usually just did it for like
the actors i liked okay i i was thinking about
this the other day i had a really creepy shrine
to ryan gosling and i would take like the cuttings
from magazines and put them in this reese's box.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm going to describe it to you in great depth
later because it's really funny, but I will prevent myself
from embarrassing myself. So here.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Oh, I have a feeling that might be on our
next episode.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I will share. I will share.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
But yeah, like you had a few. I didn't get
any subscriptions as a kid. Of course, my mom had,
like I said, had some magazines. I did get some
like National Geographic magazines. I'm not really sure why. I
don't know who handed them down. And apparently some of them,
like the older ones, are worth money. I don't know.
Maybe that's an eBay thing. I don't know. And of course,
(12:07):
like you, I didn't necessarily cut out to put them
in a box, but I did do collages.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And you have to have like... You know, I didn't
do the ransom letter thing. That's too much. You know
how you cut up random letters. But, you know, I
think I did like my dream something and it was
all like magazine cutouts, essentially. So, yeah. So we went
to this. So just as a disclaimer, some of the
(12:34):
things we're talking mainly about the history of it, of
magazines and specifically women's magazines. Again, at the end of it,
we are going to kind of talk about Southern Living
because I did want to bring it back to it
because it's mainly subscribed by women. women um and it
was geared towards women so we're going to talk about
that we are going to do another episodes but i
think we're going to push it back because it's going
(12:54):
to be somewhat related to the the reese's box and
ryan gosling shrine of uh magazines today including teen magazines
so just as a big arc of like it's not
a series i'm not doing this again annie i swear
to god i'm.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Not yeah This is your New Year's goal. No more
12-part series. Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I do want to revisit some of the magazines and
subscriptions today. But again, this is mainly about the history
of it. And I don't think there's any content warning necessary,
but you know, It's the history of magazines, and when
it comes to history for things that are geared or
consumer-driven towards women, who knows?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Maybe just.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Condescending language, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yes, yes. Lots of condescending language, a lot of consumerism,
a lot of... We do talk about race even, so,
you know, there's a whole thing, I guess, but not
too triggering like our past episode, so..
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Here we go. Yes. All right. So when it comes
to the overall history of magazines, it is, of course,
a little bit murky. Most of the historical timeline for
magazines starts at the invention of the printing press. But
pamphlets and leaflets were used before that in countries like
China and around the world. But going by the invention timeline,
(14:34):
shall we say, the first magazine to ever be published
was the German magazine, in English translated, I'm not going
to attempt it, Edifying Monthly Discussions, which was published around 1663.
I was telling Samantha I've had four years of German.
I don't have the courage today to attempt it. And
(14:55):
this was quickly followed by French published magazines titled Journal
des Scavans, or later known as Journal des Savants in 1665,
And in that same year, England would publish The Philosophical Transactions.
And many more followed after that.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Obviously. According to a Britannica article, these journals, quote, summarize
important new books, but there are as yet no literary reviews.
Book advertisements by about 1650, a regular feature of the
news sheets, sometimes had brief comments added and regular catalogs
began to appear, such as the English quarterly Mercurius Laborarius.
(15:33):
I feel like I'm doing a spell. Or a catalog
of books, which was published 1668 and 1670. But in
the 17th century, the only periodicals devoted to the books
were short-lived and The Weekly Memorials for the Ingenious, which
was published 1682-83, which offered some critical notes on books.
(15:54):
And the Universal Historical Bibliotheque, which was from January to
March in 1686. The latter invited scholarly contributions and could
thus be regarded as the true forerunner of the literary reviews.
So this is kind of what was beginning. Right.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And according to the same Britannica article, they say the first, quote,
periodical of amusement, or lighter reads, if you will, was
possibly started in 1672. They write, quote, the Mercure Galante,
renamed Mercure de France in 1714. It was founded by
the writer Jean Donneau de Vizet and contained court news, anecdotes,
(16:31):
and short pieces of verse, a recipe that was to
prove endlessly popular and become widely imitated. And of course,
this would all lead up to the beginning of magazines
specifically targeted to women. As the article writes, quote, in 1693,
after devoting some experimental numbers of the Athenian Mercury to, quote,
the fair sex, Dunton brought out the first magazine specifically
(16:53):
for women, the Ladies' Mercury. So let's talk about how
successful these experiments were. Right.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So much like today, all of the material and content
that was seen at the beginning of the women's magazine
era reflected what was happening during the time. As the
Britannica article writes, quote, women's magazines frequently reflect the changing
view of women's role in society. In the 18th century,
when women were expected to participate in social and political life,
(17:21):
those magazines aimed primarily at women were relatively robust and
stimulating in content. In the 19th, when domesticity became the ideal,
they were inclined to be insipid and humorless. After about 1880,
magazines began to widen their horizons again. And in 1770,
(17:41):
one of the noted first women's magazine, and I'm going
to put a disclaimer here, this is listed as the
first one to be published. But we know that the
dabbling began much earlier, so not the actual first women's published,
but the one that is most often listed and credited
as the first. It was the British magazine, The Ladies Magazine.
(18:03):
Very on the nose.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Here's a quote from the National Portrait Gallery about the magazine.
The Ladies Magazine, or Entertaining Companion for the Fair Sex, London, said,
was an early monthly periodical for women which dominated the
market for most of its run. It aimed to amuse
and improve, providing fiction, poetry, music, and social gossip, as
well as giving more space to fashion than its predecessors.
(18:26):
Its first issue in August 1770 included as its frontispiece
a plate titled A Lady in Full Dress in August 1770,
and it became the first magazine in any country to
regularly issue plates showing contemporary fashions. The early engravings were
uncolored until about 1790 when hand-colored ones were included.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
And during the time following, there were several other publications
that came around. Here's another quote from that Britannica article. Quote,
The New Monthly Bell Assembly, 1847 to 1870, and The
(19:07):
Lady's Treasury, 1857 to 1895, all contain verse fiction and
articles of high moral tone, but low intellectual content. And
the quote continues pointing out that there are magazines that
had a bit more depth, but they didn't really survive.
The article reads, there were attempts to swim against the tide,
(19:29):
such as The Female's Friend, 1846, which was one of
the first periodicals to espouse women's rights, but they seldom
lasted long, right? That lasted less than a year.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
But what did come around soon after was the birth
of the homemaker-based and practical advice magazine for women. One
of the earlier provided for this type of magazine was
the English Woman's Domestic Magazine, started by Samuel Beaton, with
the help from his wife, Isabella Mary Beaton. You can
listen to a Saver episode that I did on my
(20:02):
other podcast all about that. And her contributions would later
be published in her widely acclaimed book, Book of Household Management,
which was a collection of Isabella's work. And here's a
quote about that from that Britannical article. It was also
the first women's periodical to concentrate on home management and
offer practical advice to women rather than provide entertainment for
the idle.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
For the idol. How dare you? I guess it does
stretch differently. So a little more detail from the National
Portrait Gallery. It says, The Englishwoman's domestic magazine, London, published
by Samuel Orchard Beaton, began as the first cheap monthly
magazine for young middle-class women with a strong emphasis on
practical instructions and useful knowledge such as dressmaking, but only
(20:46):
occasional black and white engravings of French fashions. Domestic management
material was written by his wife, Isabella Beaton, and collected
as her book of household management in 1861. In 1860,
the price increased and more space was given to fashion
and fiction, with colored fashion plates and large fold-out embroidery
patterns and less to instructional material, as it was directed
(21:09):
to a wealthier and more fashionable readership. Between 1862 and 1864,
both Schilling and Sixpedia editions were issued, the first with
a fashion and fiction supplement, but from January 1865, the
supplement was absorbed into the magazine. The Parisian fashion plates
and imported were by Jules David, first issued in La
(21:30):
Menteur de la Mode. Yeah, no, I did that wrong,
but we're going to go on. One was included every month,
and then when the magazine merged with the Milliner, Dressmaker,
and Wirehouseman's Gazette in 1877, it continued to issue David's
plates until it ceased publication in 1881.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
There were and are many of these types of magazines
in the U.S. They are still with us today. Some
of the first magazines include Harper's Bazaar, which was started
in 1867, and the Goodies Ladies Book, which started in 1830.
And the Goodies Ladies Book actually had 150 women employed.
to hand-tint fashion plates. Previous episodes, we've mentioned them before.
(22:08):
And in this group of magazines, also, we can include
the Ladies' Home Journal. And here's some information about that
from Wikipedia. It was first published on February 16th, 1883,
and eventually became one of the leading women's magazines of
the 20th century in the United States. In 1891, it
was published in Philadelphia by the Curtis Publishing Company In 1903,
(22:32):
it was the first American magazine to reach one million subscribers.
And the Britannica article writes, the field of women's magazines
was finally transformed, however, by Cyrus Curtis with his Ladies'
Home Journal, founded 1883, edited by his wife Louisa Knapp Curtis.
This soon reached a circulation of 400,000 and under the
(22:52):
editorship of Edward W. Bach from 1889, broke with sentimentality
and piety to become a stimulating journal of real service
to women.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So the history of this magazine is pretty fascinating. We
have stories of editors, men, writing op-eds to oppose the
women's suffrage movement, saying things like, quote, a vision of
the women at home living the simple life and having
many more saying that women are enemies to themselves.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
That's nice. And then women employees, I believe this was
in the 1970s, were having sit-ins to demand a woman editor.
And by the way, it didn't work. But they did
get their own section, which according to Wikipedia says, they
wanted the magazine to recognize a wider variety of choices
for women's lives, as well as give greater attention to
(23:45):
women's issues such as sexual discrimination and abortion. Other activists
continue to protest and seem to have achieved some success.
They may not have liberated the ladies' home journal, but
they did help change perception of how the media could
portray women's lives, according to one source. And it is
something to note that the first editor of this magazine
was a woman, the wife, Louisa Knapp Curtis, but she
(24:08):
was there for less than a year, and it was
then taken over by the dude who really did not
like the women's suffrage movement.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
With the growth of women's magazines, there was what was
called the Seven Sisters, which was a group of women's
magazines that targeted women with husbands and children and were
to assist homemakers at the time. Within this list that
we can include the original Ladies Home Journal magazine, but
also Family Circle, McCall's, Red Book, and three that are
(24:39):
still circulating today, Better Homes and Gardens, Women's Day, and
Good Housekeeping. Which, yes, speaking of good housekeeping, the magazine
actually started in 1885, which is more than a century ago.
Here's a little bit about the magazine from an article
from mylifetime.com. On May 2nd, 1885, the first issue of
(24:59):
Good Housekeeping Magazine was published. Founded by Clark W. Bryan
in Holyoke, Massachusetts, the stated mission of the magazine was
to produce and perpetuate perfection, or as near onto perfection
as may be attained in the household.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Right. And the article continues, since early on, good housekeeping
took its mission of producing and perpetuating perfection in the
household seriously. In the late 19th century, the magazine published
groundbreaking articles about food safety and advocating for consumer protection.
As early as 1887, Good Housekeeping reported on topics ranging
from watered-down milk to candy contamination with asbestos. And yes,
(25:38):
they actually still have the Good Housekeeping Institute today. So
this thing exists. Here's a bit of information from Good
Housekeeping themselves. Quote, founded in 1900, the Good Housekeeping Institute
was at first called the Good Housekeeping Experiment Station. The
invention of electricity had introduced many new labor-saving home appliances,
but few consumers had any real knowledge of their operation
(26:00):
and maintenance. With the goal of studying, quote, the problems
facing the homemaker and to develop up-to-date firsthand information on
solving them. The staff at the GH Experiment Station tested
products and housekeeping methods and published articles about their discoveries
and observations. They also reprinted advice from readers who wrote them.
One reader offered a cure for calluses. She used olive
(26:22):
oil and cotton. Another reader advised about how to launder
lace drapes. And another gave tips about the best way
to clean a meat chopper. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I would also offer this reminder. This is before the
time of the internet. And if you listen to our
episode of Betty Crocker, this is really important. If you
were lonely in the kitchen and you didn't know what
to do, you would read something like this and be like, oh, okay.
And you felt less alone and you had these instructions.
You couldn't just go online and be like..
Speaker 2 (26:52):
YouTube has saved many of us from some disasters.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Exactly. And confusion.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Okay, but... Beyond just observing, at one point in the
early 1900s, Good Housekeeping made some huge controversies through their institute.
As the institute was getting bigger and their reputation was
rising with the promise of testing and giving seals of
approvals for different foods and products, that bled into advertisements
that the FTC would claim were exaggerated and false. And
(27:20):
that the magazine was making, quote, misleading and deceptive guarantees.
And this would lead to a lawsuit that would take
two years to get through and even had competitors from
the Seven Sister Group testifying against the magazine. The magazine
did drop tested and approved from their seal, but it
didn't really stop their growing popularity. And also, this continues
(27:42):
to be a point of contention. And again, you can
see the Savor episode we did about that. Maybe we
should just.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Publish it on ours.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
We should.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I think we should.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
We should. What company did that? They did the diabetes...
Good for your heart health. And it changed the way
we advertise. Cheerios? I think it is, but it's got
to be their parent company.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
But yes, yes. Whatever it was that was, like, good
for your heart. General Mills, right?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Something, yeah. But anyway.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Keep going.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, here is another quote from Good Housekeeping. Concerned about
adulteration and misbranding, home economist on staff also tested foods
for purity and published, starting in 1905, a Roll of
Honor for Pure Food Products each month. All this testing
at what was now called the Good Housekeeping Institute resulted
(28:32):
in December 1909 with the beginning of the tested and
approved list of all household products that were found to
meet the Institute's standards of excellence. Good housekeeping seal became
so well known that it has become part of the
lexicon with celebrities, governments, manufacturers, basically everyone using it. And yeah,
as you can see, they did not include the tidbit
(28:55):
about the lawsuit here.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Right. Found that interesting. I was like, huh, they still
said the seal. And you know what? They do some
big claims here. And here's what's happening with the institute today,
according to their site, quote, Today, the Good Housekeeping Institute
is located in the Hearst Tower in New York City
and staffed by chemists, biologists, nutritionists, engineers, home economists, and
(29:20):
culinary experts who evaluate thousands of consumer products each year
from microwave and mascaras to vacuums and towels. These reviews
are highlighted in the magazine and online. When products are
evaluated for the good housekeeping seal and the green good
housekeeping seal, which both represent good housekeeping So... Very consumer-like.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I don't like it. Actually, I just need to go
back and look and see if I've bought any of
those things, even though it wasn't based on there. Wait,
I can't say that out loud, can I? Then I
won't get a refund. Oh, no.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Well, we can't have that. And unsurprisingly, it took a
while for the magazine industry to change its trajectory, and
it didn't have any women editors until 1994. The first
six editors out of nine were all men, Though since
the first in 1994, the rest of the editors have
been women. So before we move on to localized magazines,
(30:33):
we did want to note some of the past advice
from this magazine and giving credit where credit is due.
The magazine recognized their own icks and published an article
titled The Good Wife's Guide to Helping Her Husband Succeed
at Work. The article begins with a disclaimer saying, in
our 130 years of publishing, we featured all kinds of tips, recipes,
(30:54):
and personal stories. Some smart advice still stands the test
of time. Others, well, not so much. Presented here with
no further comment is a feature from the January 1956
issue of Good Housekeeping. The basic premise, a hiring manager
offers his tips to a wife for helping your husband
succeed at work. Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Okay, this is also where we'll be like, yeah, this
is going to make you a little angry, but also
maybe make you laugh because you're like, what the hell?
So here's some excerpts from that article. We employers realize
how often the wrong wife can break the right man.
This doesn't mean that the wife is necessarily wrong for
that man, but that she is wrong for the job.
(31:37):
On the other hand, more often than is realized, the
wife is the chief factor in the husband's success in
his career. In the first place, she has a very
definite effect on a man's spirit. And then the article continues...
If a man has a peevish, nagging wife, if she
(31:57):
is jealous and possessive, if she is lazy or overambitious
or extravagant, that man is going to be unhappy. And
his unhappiness will interfere with his concentration on his job.
In the case of an important executive, this lack of
concentration can affect the outcome of a business conference. It
(32:18):
may even kill a profitable deal. Oh, dear. Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
So here is some advice that they listed off. A
good wife is friendly. A good wife's primary interest is
her husband, her home, and her children. And here are
some specifics to that. A good wife is there when
her husband needs her. She must be his sounding board.
She must be able to listen patiently without giving advice.
(32:44):
She must have the knack of commenting without interfering. Sometimes
it may be necessary for her to make sacrifices for
the sake of her husband and his business career. She
cannot be free to do this if she is dedicated
to a career of her own.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Ew, Annie. Yeah, don't have a career of your own.
This is why you're single.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
And then they go on and add the bad wife things.
And so it includes being a complaining woman, a dominating woman,
and the wife in a rut. And y'all... we have
to talk about this wife in a rut. And you
might be like, well, what is that? Well, they are, quote,
pathetic little creatures is just out of her element. She
(33:33):
is self-conscious, nervous, and awkward. Her taste in clothes is
usually pretty bad. Her conversation centers on babies and how
to wash the kitchen floor. 10 or 15 years ago,
she may have been the pretty little girl on Maple Street.
Her husband has become a man of the world, but
she is still on Maple Street. Oh, no.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
At least it's not Elm Street, eh?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Y'all, I mean, again, kudos to Good Housekeeping for understanding
how bad this was and also being able to call
themselves out on it. So, hats off to them, but damn.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I feel like I connect with this wife in a rut.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I'm like, wait, if all her life she's supposed to
be at being the perfect mom, what else is she
going to talk about but the child and how to
clean the floors?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
I'm not necessarily a wife of anything, but I sometimes
talk about how to clean the floors.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Right. My clothes are bad. It's cold. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I am definitely awkward. So how dare you, sir?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Exactly. Jeez Louise.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yes. It's such solid advice from the 1950s. But you know...
We don't know this. Good housekeeping wasn't the only ones
perpetuating this type of idea. And even more so, there
(35:09):
are magazines that were published more locally, like the one
that we were talking about earlier, Southern Living. And we
did want to kind of talk about what they have done,
what they represent a little bit of, the good and
the bad, I think, in it. Eventually, I think we
want to talk about the recipes from this, but we'll
come back to that. If you've ever, again, as we
told you earlier, if you travel through the South, and
(35:31):
I'm not talking about Florida, probably Florida, but more Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi,
South Carolina, Tennessee, and those areas, and beyond, Southeast area,
you have seen this magazine. The glossy picture of an idealistic,
decorated-to-the-tee home. It's like Martha Stewart is the designer of
(35:53):
this place, and it's all over the covers, just crisp
and clean. And inside are articles on how-tos and the
best recipes. And they even had floor plans. Like, they
had some amazing floor plans to the point that it
kind of started trends all over the South on what
kind of homes were being built. And when it comes
(36:13):
to the holidays, unmatched, y'all. Like, I can think of
one magazine with this tree that had a very, like, Southern...
I think it says Country Christmas is what it was called.
Of course, there's also a Country Living, now that I
think about it, magazine. I forgot about that one until
just now.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Not a miniseries, you say?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I'm not going to talk about it. But it's quite interesting,
these magazines, and they're very well printed and very prettily
put together. And again, I believe many of the older
boomer generations of women were haunted by the need to
follow suit of these perfectly decorated trees and such. Again,
(36:55):
my mom had full on themed Christmas trees. I think
one was like French country Christmas. One was like an
old traditional, that's what she would call it, because we
would have our old school children's ornaments that we loved
in one tree. So it was like she had to
distinguish the two. And they were trying to be the
(37:15):
ultimate decorators of their pristine, very pretty Southern homes. And again,
we've talked about how our mothers will go all out
for every season of the year to decorate. Again, my
mom has like apple-themed wreaths that go for the fall,
Easter-themed wreaths that go for spring.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Like, it's a thing.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
And it goes from the front of the house. I mean,
from the minute you walk up to the porch, again,
the wreaths, to the guest rooms, to the living rooms,
to the bathrooms, it's all there. And it's in part
to these magazines.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Right. Well, this publication originally came out in 1966. It
was published by the Progressive Farmer Company, which was the
publisher of the Progressive Farmer magazine. And this lifestyle magazine
is still one of the most subscribed to magazines. Here's
a bit about them from their own site. It was
for an article celebrating their 50th anniversary in 2016. Southern
(38:18):
Living is descended from the Progressive Farmer magazine, which has
roots in Raleigh and dates back to 1886. Southern Living
was spun out of that magazine's Lifestyle and Home Wife section.
which was popular among suburban housewives. The magazine has 2.8
million subscribers with about 14,000 who have been subscribers for
five decades.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
A large proponent of the magazine was the many different
recipes featured in the magazine. In fact, they started an
annual recipe book in 1979 and have been publishing them
ever since. Here's what they say on their website. The
1979 edition of Southern Living Annual Recipes, which has sold
well over 21 million copies since its first printing, was
(39:02):
just the beginning. The popularity and reliability of Southern Living Recipes,
coupled with the steady flow of comments, questions, and suggestions
from readers, led to a highly successful extension for the brand.
This annual cookbook has been published every year since.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
I want to say my mother would cut out these recipes.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
And I think... I have what I call like the
uh hillbilly taco salad which you've had before yeah it's
good like it's very odd that i think she got
from there and i think it was in sponsorship with
rice-a-roni which is what i use in this y'all.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yes so many recipes were like companies being like here's
how you can eat bananas and there's a whole book
of banana recipes but my mom has that too she
has a recipe box and just has like these cutouts
and they're like all folded and you can't read all
of it.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
No.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
She got from magazines.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I think I tried to do a homemade cake with
fudge icing for my mother for that. The cake did
not turn out so well. The icing was delicious, though.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
But, you know, with the things that were happening, and
this is what the appeal is, and many of the
women have followed suit and still, again, still subscribe. Man,
five decades worth for thousands of people for this magazine.
And I guarantee my mom has been probably a part
of that because she Like I said, I had it
as a child and I'm around 40 now, 40s, in
my 40s now. So knowing that she's had it for
(40:30):
that long. But the book has a lot of criticism
as well, including the glaring fact that the magazine was
based out of the South and at the time ignored
the racism and racial violence that was happening there. in
that time period and in that area. Some of the
articles point out the fact that this magazine existed during
(40:51):
one of the most heated times of the civil rights
movement and ignored the issues around them and that it
was proof enough that this magazine and a lot of
magazines like it whitewashed and overall completely refused to acknowledge
the issues that were happening. A specific researcher, and I
believe she was a student at the time, Summer Hill Vincent,
wrote about this for her dissertation titled Whitewashing Southern Living,
(41:12):
the Sociocultural Significance of the 1966 Magazine Launch in Birmingham, Alabama.
And in her paper, she writes about the issues of
how a still popular magazine hasn't really been studied when
it comes to their place in history during the civil
rights movement. Here's a quote from that. Historian James Cobb
explained that the whitewashing of history in Southern living occurred
(41:34):
in the aftermath of the Civil Rights Movement when white
Southerners scrambled to find an identity that was unique but
unrelated to racism. Quote, for many of them, that search
seemed to begin at the very end of the Civil
Rights era with the cleverly pleasing pages of Southern Living magazine.
He argued that it was no accident that a magazine
(41:54):
for white Southerners launched in the later years of the
Civil Rights Movement. And it goes on, that mirage hid
so much pain, as American Studies professor Alan Toulouse explained
in the 1979 article, Azalea Death Trip. Not only are
the historical rich folkways given an eye-catching or sentimental treatment,
which ultimately trivializes them, but sanction is given to a
(42:16):
way of looking at life, which eliminates its unpleasant, tragic realities,
its historical burdens, and its future obligations. By looking the
other way, the magazine endorsed a lifestyle that romanticized reality
and let white Southerners off the hook for their role
in the events taking place around them. Of course, this
is just a small snippet from that article, from that dissertation.
(42:40):
And I think it's a lot in conversation because there's
also a lot of identity put into magazines like this
and why mediums like this was so important. And when
we come back and talk about magazines' effects today, we
will talk about the fashion industry, and even the political
ideas behind it. But things like this have a huge
(43:02):
cultural impact. And again, as Annie was saying previously, this
was before the internet. This is how news traveled and
or what you thought other people were doing as well.
They might not be you, but they're out there because
you see this in this glossy, beautiful magazine saying that
you should be making these recipes and ignoring everything else.
There's even articles talking about how they ignored and didn't
(43:23):
have many Black community members as featured in any of
the articles, featured in any of the celebrations or any
of the conversations in this magazine, which was supposed to
celebrate all of the South at that time. There was
a recent article about how there needs to be a
reckoning for Southern living. And I say recent, I mean,
the last 10 years, because they were still featuring things
(43:46):
like plantations and showing tours about plantations and how they
ignored the history behind it just to show pretty pictures
of that property and making money. offer that property. And again,
not acknowledging what had happened there, what was going on there.
I think at one point in the article that they
did talk about the fact that one of the editors
were like, no, no, no, we featured Black people, look.
(44:07):
And it was like a handful, possibly a few times.
And there's a lot to say in that conversation. There's
also an article, which Annie, I told you about previously,
and I cannot not share. I'm not going to read
it necessarily, but I found it really, really funny because
there's a man complaining about how southern living has lost
(44:30):
its way and i was like wait what's happening um
and his complaint was the fact that it no longer
featured recipes it no longer featured like helpful guys or
how to's instead it was now trying to sell you
things or it was trying to uh tell you how
to be a better woman this way like sex life
but how to have a better sex life and all
these things and though he had a point i still
(44:52):
was like i don't know if i want to take
this I'm just saying, he's not wrong. Yeah. But I
don't feel like this is his place to say. I mean,
anyone can enjoy any of those things. But it's odd
to be like, you are teaching women better things. Go
back to that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
It is strange. And I think one of the things
when we come back, whenever that will be, probably February
with the next part, We've talked about before on this show,
I think past host Kristen and Caroline definitely talked about it,
but you know that with the internet, the magazine industry
has been in flux. There has been a lot of
(45:37):
pressure of how they're going to survive. I personally feel
like magazines are sexual luxury. I usually only get them
if there's Star Wars on the cover.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Or, I.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Don't do this, but my friends, when we go to
the beach or something, we'll get magazines. But otherwise, so
it's sort of an interesting... space they're in but there
are we also you should go listen um to our
old fanzine episode because there are places where it's like
really niche and it's growing so it's not that it's
gone away it's definitely a huge place for advertising i
(46:10):
will say right um but it it's a lot of
these big magazines that have been around for so long
are kind of questioning like well What are we now?
How do we keep going? What is this?
Speaker 2 (46:24):
And we're going to talk about this for sure when we...
It's not part two. I'm refusing to call it a
part two for the other episode that we were going
to do that's somewhat related to this about the whole
virtual magazines or how it is no longer in press
necessarily and is now all online. And what does that
(46:44):
look like? And then also talking about paywalls. And is
that a good thing? But how else do they make money? Advertising,
I know, but this is back and forth. And why
do I find it irritating to pay for a subscription online?
when I would have been willing to buy a magazine.
That's my own brain here. But again, who is affected?
Who isn't affected by this? Who is being targeted? Who
(47:07):
is being marketed to? But also, how is it still
making changes in society? Because again, a local regional magazine
that likes Southern Living has impacted society pretty deeply. And
the same thing with all the other magazines we talked about,
like as they have, thank God, transformed or hopefully are
(47:29):
transforming into being better messages for women and more inclusive,
I would hope, and less heteronormative. But, you know, like
what kind of impact they had on so many young women,
older women, so many of the things, expectations that it held.
(47:49):
And yeah, and what we bought because of it, like,
At one point in time, TikTok did not exist and
I was not influenced by TikTok. I was influenced by
magazines telling me I needed to go get this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
And a lot of those recipes would be like, hey,
you want to make this aspect? Guess what? You're going
to need this gelatin mold. Here's where you can get it.
Here's this.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Let me show you.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yes. You could send in your little mail-in coupon thing
and they will send.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It to you. I also clip coupons out of magazines.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah. Memories.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
What a world. Memories.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
What a world.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Memories um well do watch out for our next follow-up.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
We'll do a follow-up a valentine's day follow-up that's what i.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Thought it's gonna be a related follow-up and i will
open the box on my ryan gosling shine and it's
you're gonna laugh it's very embarrassing but in the meantime
listeners if you have any thoughts about any of this
if you still have any magazines or memories about magazines
fanzines you can let us know You can email us
at stephaniemomstuff at iheartmedia.com. You can find us on Twitter
(48:53):
at momstuffpodcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've
never told you. We have a TeePublic store and we
have a book that you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina,
executive producer, Maya, and our contributor, Joey.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
And thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
You is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Samantha McVey
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