SMNTY Interviews: Genevieve Nierman

Editor, writer, interviewer and Senior Books Content Manager at Pix Media Genevieve Nierman joins us to chat about entertainment curation, the publishing world, book to movie adaptations and changing trends especially when it comes to women.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
And Smitha.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
And welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You, a production
of iHeartRadio. And welcome to our guest, Genevieve Nierman, editor, writer,
and interviewer, and senior books content manager at PIX Media,
who is behind things like Book PIX and Worth the Read.

(00:31):
Thank you so much for being with us, Genevieve. We're
so excited.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited too. Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
I think this is going to be a really fun conversation.
Can you introduce yourself to our audience, please?

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah. So hi, I'm Genevieve.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
As you said, I'm the Senior Content Manager for Books
at PixMedia. And if you are wondering what is PixMedia,
I can give you a little... a little information. We're
a modern media company for entertainment discovery. We are helping
our audience find what's worth watching, reading, listening to. And
we're trying to do it with editorial taste and a

(01:07):
point of view that makes every pick worth their time. Basically,
there's so much out there in terms of entertainment now.
And there's so many different places where people are trying
to curate it or algorithms are trying to curate it.
It's really, really hard to actually find what you want
to spend time with. So we're trying to solve that problem.

(01:28):
And I am very lucky that I get to do
all of our books content. I started my career in
traditional publishing. And then I moved into the startup email
marketing space. And then this job allowed me to marry
the two together really beautifully.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
That is a very useful thing to have curated a
list of entertainment because there's so much out there. How
did you get into this line of work?

Speaker 4 (01:56):
So I kind of fell into it. So like I said,
I started in book publishing. I was an English major
in college. And I knew I wanted to do something
with books and writing. But it's, you know, it doesn't
seem like there are that many options. It kind of

(02:16):
felt like either go to grad school or go into
book publishing and become an editor.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
I was like, I want to be an editor. Let
me do that.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
And I did that for about five, six years. And
I was very unhappy. There were parts of being an
editorial assistant and an assistant editor that I was very,
very good at. And then there were parts that I
was very, very bad at. And overall, it was just

(02:47):
not a match. So I left and I kind of
wandered around a little bit. I worked in retail. The
pandemic happened. Great time to be working in retail. And
then I got a position doing email marketing copywriting for

(03:07):
a software marketplace. And I always wanted to try my
hand at proper copywriting. because you do a lot of
copywriting when you are in editorial and publishing, you know,
like I was the one writing the flap copy, the
Amazon description, you know, you're helping to craft marketing materials.

(03:28):
And I really, really liked that, but I did miss
working in books or I just missed working with books.
And I actually truly like the way that I got
this job is I got a message on LinkedIn from
a recruiter that was like, Hey, are you interested in this?

Speaker 3 (03:45):
And yeah, I was like, sure, why not? Let me
do some investigation.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
And I ended up in this awesome niche job that
married my two work experiences.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
That's awesome. I will say like your career and where
you ended your path, this is how my mind thinks.
I think you might too. It's like you are the
main character for a rom-com coming in. Like, your career,
your job.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
Man, I hope so, because I'm still looking for love.
So hearing that it sounds like I'm at the beginning
of a rom-com is exactly what I want to hear.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Girl, it started. Like, I see you walking down the
sidewalks of somewhere, New York, and, like, holding your books
or whatever, and you drop something, and this dude's going
to come pick it up and be like, oh, what
is this? And then y'all go for coffee, like.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
From your mouth.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
To the universe's ears, please.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
It's just in my head. It's like, this is how
I'm seeing it. It's got to be a crisp autumn day, too.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Perfect. It's September 1st.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Come on, it's coming.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
It's happening.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
We'll be back on for the wedding special in a
couple of years.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yes, when you come talk to me about this. Okay,
but back to, can you tell the listeners a little
bit about book picks and worth the read? I know
that's a part of your resume as well.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
So Book Picks is our flagship books newsletter. We have
three flagship newsletters, TV Movie Picks, Podcast Picks, Book Picks.
Pretty self-explanatory, but, you know, they specialize in. And Book
Picks is really supposed to be a fun, quick digest

(05:26):
of what's happening in the book world this week for readers.
My goal, we go out on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays.
And my goal is always, okay, if somebody doesn't have
a lot of time, but they want to know what
are the big books that I should be aware of?
Who are the authors that have new books out? You know,

(05:48):
what are people talking about? What are the interesting adaptation,
like casting news that's happening? They should be able to
just read this newsletter, skim it, have that information and go.
hopefully they find a book that really intrigues them and
they end up reading it. Um, we have done a
lot of surveys with our readers and people do say

(06:13):
that they find great recs. I've heard people, I mean,
even like really, really big authors. Um, I've had people
who love them be like, Oh my God, I didn't
know that they had a new book out.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
This is awesome. It always makes me feel happy. Um, uh, Yeah,
so that is that.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
You'll always find, like, a couple of brand new books
out that week that we think our readers will be
excited about. Every week we try to feature, you know,
the biggest adaptation that's coming out. Some weeks there's a million,
some weeks there's not. We always try to do, like,
a little game because everybody likes a little game. And

(06:53):
then Worth the Read. So the kind of crossover into
that is... In doing book picks, my goal is to
create something that is for as wide a reach of
readers as possible. We feature all types of genres. There
are sometimes authors that I don't particularly like or books

(07:13):
that don't seem exciting to me, but I know that
our audience is going to love them. For instance, I'm
going to give maybe a hot take here. I hope
it doesn't upset anyone. I really don't like Fourth Wing.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Deafening silence.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
No, I don't know what that is. I'm not going
to lie. This is for me of like, I don't
know what that is. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
All right.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
I'm sure it's a hot take for some listeners.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
It's a huge romantic series about like a dragon college.
A college?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Like a college, like a war college with dragons and,
you know. I'm assuming this is really big in the
book talk world.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yes. Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
That's just where I would understand.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
This is probably where, okay. Yes.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Huge.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
So yeah, you're, you're definitely stepping in it then. I, yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
And I just like, it's not for me and I
love fantasy. It's just, it's not for me, but I
know when there is fourth wing news, like we are
featuring that because that's what people want to see. Now
worth the read is, is much more opinion-based, what I
want to talk about. It's very much from my voice.

(08:28):
My name is in the header. And really, okay, so
we had this issue of curation. How do you solve that?
And one of the things that we were missing was
that opinion-trusted personal voice. So we launched this suite of
newsletters that was addressing that. And my coworker Meredith does

(08:54):
our like pop culture. She's a housewives aficionado. She does
our reality TV pop culture. My coworker John does our
kind of more serious TV movies. And then my coworker
Steve does our podcasts. And here I get to just
write about what I want to write about. Obviously, I'm

(09:16):
trying to write about things that other people are going
to be interested in, too. But I can I mean,
I did. It's really fun because I get to.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Be weird.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
I get to be a lot weirder, you know, for instance.
So I studied I studied English in college, but I
also studied ancient Greek and classics.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
What?

Speaker 2 (09:38):
I know.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
I saw on your LinkedIn, you got an award.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
I got, not to take away from myself, but I
got an award for the first year with the highest
proficiency in ancient Greek, which I'm sure when it was
created in like 1850 was a huge.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Deal because everybody had to take it.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
But I think there were like five of us taking
ancient Greek and I had taken it in high school.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
So like.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
A win's a win, I say.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
A win's a win. I don't know if I've ever
met anyone who has actually studied Greek. So thank you
for being that person in my life, first and foremost.
I'm excited to have this.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
It was very fun. I liked it. I was not Honestly,
I was not really good at it. I had a
few friends who were like really unbelievably excellent. I was okay.
But so obviously with the Odyssey coming out.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I was like, it's my time to shine. Yeah, this
is your moment.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
So I got to do a whole newsletter about, hey, okay,
you saw the Odyssey. You loved it. You want more.
Here's a bunch of recs. And I'm not just going
to give you some contemporary recs. I'm also going to
give you some ancient wrecks that I think are accessible
and fun and, you know, what you're looking for. If
you want more mythology, if you want more, you know,

(10:53):
family drama. And then like a couple of weeks later,
I did an entire edition about sentient object smut because
everybody was losing their minds over the wicker.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
The wicker trailer.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
And that's a very real, romance subgenre. And so I
was like, wow, look at... I couldn't do this in
book picks.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
I do love this. And I'm not going to lie,
I feel like you and Annie may need a moment
to have some serious conversations because her love for fanfics
as well as all of these... Yes, all of these
things that I don't know about. She has to teach
me about fanfic lore.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Oh, we're doing an episode on Omegaverse today. It's going
to be fascinating.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
No clue.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
You're going to be... Mind blown.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Okay. I'm excited. But like this level of conversation, I
love this. And I think you really tap in on
something that has been really powerful and like has kind
of had a resurgence, I feel like, in the world
of social media platforms and such, which is that newsletter.
Like the newsletter, how big it is, it's kind of
just stayed strong. People who felt like TikTok was going

(12:07):
to go away or like social, like Instagram is too, um,
What's the word? Spinal?

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
But that newsletter has kind of had that resurgence, but
been lasting, though. So with that, what do you think
is this lasting power of the newsletter?

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Well, I think, because I've thought about this, I think
perhaps the root of it, speaking as a younger sister, is...
like there's nothing better than reading somebody's diary. That's like
the first like forbidden reading that you do as a,

(12:50):
at least a younger sister.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
I'm so sorry to my, my older sister. I was
going to.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Say, did she know this?

Speaker 4 (12:58):
I mean, you know, she knows, she knows and she
didn't deserve it. But I think there's something like when someone,
you feel like someone is like writing to you about
their thoughts, whatever it's, it's, this like access to a
side of humanity that makes you feel less alone. And
it's also like usually more casual, easier to read. And

(13:22):
then obviously there was the whole like blog moment in
the 2010s that I loved. Like I had my bloggers
that I would check in on every single day and
get really attached to them. And then that kind of
died with like Instagram and and Facebook and also like

(13:46):
social media has become, I mean, I could, there's a
lot that's wrong with social media now.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Um, but another issue is like, you're, you're constantly being sold.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
You're constantly being sold something and it's, it's nonstop ads.
And I think a written ad is just a, it's
a different experience than a video ad. But yeah, I
think newsletters are kind of that return to blogging, to
having that like one-on-one connection with someone.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
I think that people like.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
That in a world of like hot takes and people
posting things on Instagram and then being like, actually I
thought about it and I was wrong. A newsletter kind
of assumes that there was a little bit more time
and a little bit more space, a little bit more thought.
And you see like there's a lot of really interesting
reading coming out of Substack. I think also like, It

(14:37):
kind of itches that, or it kind of scratches that
old-timey newspaper itch.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
You're like, oh, I got my delivery. Now I'm going
to read it.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, it kind of does. It just brought me back
to my love for my old Zynga site. Zynga!

Speaker 1 (14:50):
I desperately want to find this.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
I feel like I might be out way older than y'all.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
I remember Zynga.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Man, the poetry I had on there. It would haunt
me forever.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
This is like my dream is to find Samantha Zynga.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
My five-sentence thought as I'm sitting at UGA.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
No, no.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Anyway, moving on.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
One day, one day. So as you were saying, you
have worked in a lot of different parts of the
book and publishing world. And some of it stood out
to me because of the crossover it has with podcasting.
So for instance, when you're talking about writing kind of
the flap copy, I know you've discussed like that's important

(15:35):
to sell the book to people. Like they have this
amount of space to read it and get hooked or
not hooked. And I often feel that way when I'm
writing the title and description, all of that stuff. It
can feel kind of overwhelming. And I don't think people

(15:55):
think about that a lot, like unless that's your job.
So are there aspects that you think that a lot
of people in this book and publishing world maybe don't
know about or overlook?

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Oh, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot. I think
what you brought up is probably the biggest one. And I.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Hope that I'm not phrasing this in a way that
makes it sound like it's malicious, but there's a lot
of psychology at work in the packaging of a book.
And people don't, I mean, I didn't realize this until
I was doing it. People don't realize that so much
of what you go into a book expecting has been

(16:43):
set up for you. That ideas have been planted, you know,
kind of like this is what the genre is. This
is what you should expect. This is what you should
be thinking of. You're not coming into it as a
blank slate. Everything from the cover to the copy is,
I had a boss once who was like, yeah, I'm
always pleased when I see specific words I put in

(17:05):
copy show up in like reviews and stuff because.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
They don't, they're not realizing it.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
I can think of one book that I worked on
where we were being told to package it like a thriller.
So we did, and it was not really a thriller.
And there were a couple of reviews that was like,
I'm a little bit confused.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
And I wanted to be like, you're right. Listen to your, yeah,
you're right. Listen to your gut.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
The only time that I've had that completely like unaltered
reading experience is I've done some work reading manuscripts for
a agent. And that's really cool because that is like,
you are just getting a manuscript. Sometimes it doesn't even
have the author name or a title. And it's just like,
here's the story.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
What do you think?

Speaker 4 (17:47):
But yeah, like it's like all marketing. People want you
to think a certain thing and sometimes it works.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Sometimes it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
I mean, I think you see that like on book
talk too. There are a lot of people who talk
up and go bananas, you know, like fourth wing. Like
when you search up fourth wing, you're going to see
a lot of people that are like, this is my
favorite book I've ever read. And then you might read
it and be like, yeah, I agree. Or you might
read it and be like, I hate this. I can't
finish it. But there will probably be a little voice

(18:18):
in your head that's like, well, what's wrong with me
if everybody else loves this?

Speaker 3 (18:22):
So that's definitely one. Another publishing.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
demands so much of the people working on the books.
Besides the fact that it's just a tremendous amount of work.
But the people who work in publishing, for the most part,
genuinely love books and genuinely care about the books they're
working on.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
And they want it to succeed.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
If you read a book that you really love, you
want to write a letter to the author or you
leave a great Amazon review, that actually does matter. And
that's going to make somebody happy. And like, people do care.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
So that's kind of cool. I think like readers need
to know.

Speaker 4 (19:04):
That they have a little bit more power to impact
people's days, especially authors, like authors love to hear anything nice.
You know, like this is their baby. I always say that, like,
you absolutely should judge a book by its cover so
much work and thought. goes into the cover that is

(19:25):
trying it's trying to communicate so much to you like
yes yes judge it judge.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
It yeah the cover when we were publishing our book
and step on never told you book the biggest like fight.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
We were yeah i was obnoxious.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Wild like not not what we were writing about cool
this cover.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Though honestly though like we had a whole experience with
our co-workers too who had such a big fallout that
they ended up not publishing the book because the cover
was like such a big.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Deal oh my god so you couldn't you like you
couldn't even get past it no.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
They couldn't even like they're like no we're not doing
this so like well damn wow so our people who
had worked with them, like the publishers that we were
working with were like, oh no, we have to work
this out.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
No, the covers are, you can get some like knock down,
drag out fights.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yep. Certainly can. Well, this is really, that's, that was
a really fascinating answer about the marketing, especially because it
reminded me of, we did an episode on Jennifer's body.
And like the marketing about Jennifer's body was so not
what it was. But when people like the cult following
came later after they'd seen it and they were like, actually,

(20:46):
I understand what this is. And it was not whatever
this marketing campaign is. But I do think there's a
space if it's done well, where you can have that
kind of inversion of, oh, this is not what I thought.
But if it's, you've got to stick the landing on
that though. You've got to stick the landing.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Definitely.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, on the opposite end of the flap cover and
writing that, there is this aspect in the publishing world of,
you know, an author has to write a pitch, usually,
sends in a pitch. Do you have any, like, tips
on what you think makes a good pitch?

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Oh, well, so I, for the most part, authors are
going to be pitching agents. And I was never in
the agenting side. So by the time I was seeing
a manuscript, it was coming from the agent and they
had their, you know, perfectly polished, like they know what
they're doing.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
So their pitch letters are great.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Um, I'm trying to think of a few friends who
were authors and kind of what's, what's worked for them.
I think comparative titles are always really helpful. Everybody, you know, you,
a lot of people want to be like inventing something
brand new. That's actually very hard for publishers to sell.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
And it's hard for them to even sell to each other.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
Like if you have like, you know, you're an editor
and you have a book that you read and you love,
you have to convince other people in the publishing house.
It's not just a one person decision at most places. Um, yeah,
you have to convince other people. You have to convince
people in marketing, publicity, the publisher, uh, there are usually
like big meetings where people discuss a book that somebody

(22:35):
wants to acquire. And I saw multiple times where an
editor had a book that they really wanted to acquire,
but everybody else was like, I don't really see like, what,
what is this like?

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Which is.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Sometimes the answer is nothing, but they want to be
able to say, Oh, well, this is like, you know,
remarkably bright creatures meets the correspondent meets the, And then
you know, okay, this is the audience.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
This is how we're going for it. You have a
clear picture.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
So being able to compare what you're doing with popular
authors and books, I think it's very helpful. And not
withholding the goods. Really pitch what's great about what you've written.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Don't muck it up.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
Nobody really has that much time. Get to what's good
and interesting and intriguing about it.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yes. I think I was interested in pitching a book
for a while, and I remember reading, like, they're not
interested in, like, being surprised. Just tell them the surprise.
Don't do that. So you've been in this industry for

(23:54):
a while. What are some things that you have seen
change or some things that maybe have stayed the same
for better or worse?

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah. Well, I.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Mean, I definitely feel like in recent years, there's been
a lot more respect for romance and fantasy and romanticy,
which is very cool, especially for romance, because that is
a woman dominated genre. It is overwhelmingly women writing for women.

(24:29):
And It has historically been treated like trash and you
have prolific romance authors that don't get nearly enough praise
just because people think that the genre that they're writing in,

(24:49):
it's not serious. And you know, that serious fiction is
a serious man talking about depressing serious man things, you know?
And the past few years of really seeing people like,
you know, Emily Henry blow up is really cool.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
I've personally really enjoyed that. Same with fantasy.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
I mean, seeing like Sarah J. Moss be such a
formidable force in the book world when she is writing
Romantasy is very cool. And when I was younger, fantasy
was not cool. Like I've always liked fantasy. I kind
of fell away from it for a long time because

(25:31):
it was not cool. And the fact that now you
can like be obsessed with a fantasy series and it's
not necessarily the most embarrassing thing ever is awesome. Within
the publishing industry, it seems like there's been a lot
of movement towards unionizing and fairer pay for more junior employees,

(25:53):
which is amazing.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
I support that so much.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
The pay issue in publishing is.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
An issue.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
And it's very encouraging to me to see people who
are really fighting for a better work environment and that
some people are succeeding. I think they are making efforts
to be more diverse. I don't know exactly how that
is going. But I think the efforts are there, and

(26:28):
that is good.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
I like how you answered that. You're like, it's there.
Thinking about the romance genre, we actually did an episode
about the timeline and how the romance genre is the moneymaker, essentially,
in the book world, publishing world. And obviously, it's kind
of blowing up again. with a book talk. So it

(26:54):
was really fun to see because it was so like
disrespected in so many ways for something that was like
amazing and like formative for several women and young girls.
I'm hand-raising right here. And one of the things that
we do on our show is we do a feminist
book club every month. And I will say it's difficult

(27:15):
to try to narrow down the choices because I want
to do like, we want to do the perfect thing,
the perfect theme, really good entertainment and So I know
it's really hard to go through the process of picking
the perfect book. How do you choose which books to
focus on with your... Yeah, you're just.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
I.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Love that you just went, oh, Lord, automatically. But how
do you do that?

Speaker 4 (27:40):
Oh, it's really hard. I'm not the fastest reader. I'm
always trying to get faster. But so I do get
a lot of anxiety about what I'm going to read because...
I know some people who say that they can read
a book a day, which.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Share the magic.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
How do you do that? I physically can't do that.
So there is a little bit more of an anxiety.
I'm like, okay, this is the book for the week.
It better be a good one. Sometimes it's not. This
is a very unsatisfactory answer, but I just try to
listen to my gut.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
If there's something in a description....

Speaker 4 (28:19):
Or a cover that's calling to me, then I will
follow that call. You know, there's a lot of hate
for things that are popular and the idea that things
that are popular are less than. And I just don't
believe that. Like things that are popular, they're popular because

(28:41):
they're popular. And like, I love Taylor Swift. And the
reason why she's so popular is It's because so many
people love her because there's a lot in her work
to love. And I think that's the case with a
lot of really popular books too. I mean, like, I
don't know if you've heard about this series, Dungeon Crawler Carl.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
I've heard about it and I'm really curious about it.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
I kept hearing about it. I was like, this is
not my type of book. I kept hearing about it.
I kept seeing it.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
I had a couple of friends who read it and
were like, this was so fun. But friends that I
didn't really expect would be into this either. And I
have been totally sucked into it. I just finished the
fourth book. There are eight out so far.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
And they're long.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
And I'm excited to jump into five. And it is
a new genre of sci-fi called lit RPG, which is
lit role-playing game, like a, like video game RPG games.
And it's basically like, okay, if you took an RPG
video game and you made it a book, and this

(29:44):
is a guy who has to survive a.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Video game reality.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Competition being put on by aliens that have taken over earth.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
It is, so weird. It is so wacky.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
The main characters are our hero, Carl, and then his
ex-girlfriend's cat, Princess Donut, who is just like, everybody falls
in love with Princess Donut.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Of course.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
I was looking at Princess Donut shirts on Etsy yesterday.
Like she is everything.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Great name too.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Great name.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Great name.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
It just totally, totally sucked me in. And I was like, oh,
that's why this is so popular. Because it's really fun.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
I love that. I'm going to have to look into
that because that has a very Dungeons and Dragons coded name.
And there's a character, there are two sci-fi characters that
are kind of like really Easter egg characters that are
named Carl. And I'm just very curious about this whole thing.
So I'm going to investigate.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
Please, please read it and then report back. I promise
it's weirder and wilder and more addictive than.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yes, when we do the check-in about your rom-com and wedding,
I'll have the review ready.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, I'm not going to lie. Like, lit RPG. You
don't do... Like, the story is established. It's not like
a pick-your-adventure at any point. You're not really role-playing. Okay,
making sure I understand.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah, that's a little confusing. It's more like he is
now active in a video game.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Got you, a part of it. All right, all right.
I'm there now. I'm there. Sometimes it takes me a minute.
Y'all are young.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
No, it's hard to explain. And I'm not like a
big video game player. Like I love, you know, like
Mario and Zelda. But outside of that, not really. So
I also was kind of like, oh. know what I'm
getting into, but then.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
You pick it up.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Okay. Well, Zelda, I feel like that's, I know it's popular,
but I think it's still very much a video game,
video game. I can't get into it.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Yeah, I mean, I, oh, this is totally off topic,
but the two Zelda games for the Nintendo Switch, 10
out of 10.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Oh, Breath of the Wild will change your life.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
My partner has it on Switch, and he's played it
a few times. I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
It's Do you watch?

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yes, I will watch.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
The music is beautiful. The story is beautiful.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
That's what I've heard. My problem is I am an angry,
not good video game player. So if there's a possibility
that I die or I have to fight things, I
will immediately fail. So the frustration level.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Anyway, I've definitely gotten into my woes with this. But
it's exciting to know because you're correct. Just because it's popular,
just because it's mainstream does not make that a bad thing.
They got there for a reason. And it should be
appreciated just because maybe I'm late to the game. I mean,
that's what they try to say about Twilight. And look,

(32:54):
it's the lasting power. I'm just kidding. I just wanted
to insert Twilight here. With all of that, because you
have to read for your job. We also, like I said,
we kind of read for our job. Every now and then,
it feels like it's just work. For you, have you
had a hard time separating work from pleasure or making

(33:15):
something that you love into work? Has that changed any
of that?

Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:22):
When I was working in publishing, it absolutely killed my
ability to read for pleasure. I had to read so
much already, and it all felt like work. And when
I was reading... a book that I wasn't working on,
it was like, okay, well, how would I have done this?
Or why is this working? What like, you're, you know,
kind of like picking it apart. And it felt like,

(33:45):
you know, when I was going to read, I needed
to read things that were impressive sounding, not necessarily exactly
what I wanted to read. Yeah, it absolutely impacted my
ability to read for pleasure and kind of like, killed
it for a little.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Bit, which is so sad.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Now I feel very fortunate that my love for reading
is back. And because I have a lot of control
over what I read, it's a non-issue in this role,
which is awesome.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Do you read like a book a week or a
book every two days?

Speaker 3 (34:19):
I try to read, I try to read a book
a week. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
I don't always succeed, especially, you know, it's, it's, Hard
because certain books, yeah, you can fly through them.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
But other books you want to savor. Yeah. And they're longer.
They're more difficult. I do like audiobooks for certain things.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Hey, I've become a pretty big fan of audiobooks. I'm
not going to lie.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
What's your favorite?

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Okay, there's too many. Because we, like I said, we
read them month to month. And the ones that last
and linger with me that I think on, like we've
talked about Mexican Gothic. And that haunting level of books
where you just remember the scenes and come back to it.
And the way that it's read to you and the voices,

(35:10):
I do adore that.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Do you have a favorite? What's your favorite? Can you
tell us your favorite?

Speaker 3 (35:17):
My favorite audiobook?

Speaker 4 (35:18):
I mean, a guilty pleasure of mine is I love
to listen to Frida McFadden books on audio.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
She is a.

Speaker 4 (35:28):
thriller writer who, I don't know how she does it.
She publishes like three books a year.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Really?

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Like three new ones.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
But then she has a backlist of self-published titles that
they're republishing. So it'll be like five new Freedom McFadden
books in a year. They're not like highbrow literature. They're
very twisty, but like the formula of how it unfolds
is pretty.

(35:58):
You kind of get used to it. You can listen
to it while you're doing other stuff.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
I like listening to those. Although I wouldn't say that's
my favorite audio book. My favorite audio book. I love
the audio book for Daisy Jones and the Six by
Taylor Jenkins Reid. Really, really recommend that one. It's a
full cast. And the way that the book is written
is like it's a rock documentary.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
So everything is interviews with people talking about stuff. So
having it be a full cast, it feels like you're
listening to something that's real.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
It's really fun. The story is really beautiful. I really
like Taylor Jenkins reads books in general, but really, really highly.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Recommend that one.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Let's put that on our list. I love good recommendations.
Just out of curiosity, because you were talking about self-publishing
and I know it was specific to the author. But
what are your thoughts with the new, like, because there's
been so many who have now been able to use, like,
their own Amazon accounts to self-publish. Controversies with self-publishing with, like, AI.

(37:12):
How has this affected your world in literature and in reading?

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Oh, I mean, it hasn't affected me directly. I still
very much kind of stick to, for my own reading,
to traditionally published books. books um i think there are
some publishers that are doing really interesting things where they
purchase and repackage.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Self-published books sourcebooks does this a lot.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
Uh which is really really cool and generally if i'm
gonna encounter a book that was originally self-published it'll be
through like that kind of avenue so it's kind of
like someone has already vouched for it yeah um I mean,
I think it's awesome. I think anything that lets people

(37:59):
put their ideas out there and find their audience is incredible.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
I really support that.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
I think especially because so many of the people who have...
I mean, Dungeon Crawler Carl was originally self-published. So many
of the big romance authors now were originally self-published. So
lowering that barrier of entry for especially like young women who...
want to write what they want to write. And then it,

(38:28):
it resonates with people. Like, I think that's really cool. Um,
obviously the AI, oh, I mean, that's a whole, that's
a whole can of worms. I, it's really tricky.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I've, I've, you know, I.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
Think the scarier part about it is that I've heard
some editors or people say, you know, well, if something's AI,
then I'm going to reject it because I can always tell.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
No, you can't. Right.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Which has been a big controversy right now.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Uh-huh.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
There was just that book deal that was, it was
like a huge auction. It sold for like, I don't even,
like $ 2 million maybe. It sold for a lot of money.
And then they like immediately canceled.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
It because they.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
Had reason to believe there was AI. I don't really
know the truth of the story or what's going on.
I think the author is like fighting back.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah. I need to follow up on that.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
No, there's definitely been a lot of conversations and who
is affecting is disproportionately affecting. Like it seems women of color,
black women. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
And this, seems to be purposeful again, a different issue.
I know that, but like, that's so hard to navigate
in this seemingly in this industry in general.

Speaker 4 (39:39):
And I heard this once at a, like a event
where someone was giving a presentation on AI and He
was like, just remember that every time you see AI output,
this is the worst it's ever going to be. And
that's like fascinating and also terrifying.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Right.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
But like, it's just going to keep getting better. So
this idea that like, well, I can always tell because
I read for a living.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Don't be so sure.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Right, right.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah. And then did you see the whole Hank Green story?

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yes. Oh, the amount of like, well, like it's not
only him, but like book talk in general. I've seen
like this explosion of conversation because there's been a back
and forth of like who is using it, who isn't
using it, what is used, what is considered AI. You
know what I mean? Like spell check. I know that's
been a whole thing. Like technically it is AI, but

(40:41):
obviously they're not using AI to write their stories. They're
editing stories. So what is that conversation? And then Hank Green, yeah,
talking about, he kind of just fell into the trap
of like, oh, this is kind of easy. Let me
try this.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
That, I mean, yeah, the Hank Green story is wild
because he really, it went from like zero to 60,
all kind of all because of him. And personally, I
think there are ways for creative people to use AI
to assist them that it's not in creating the, you know,
if you need to help get your ideas in order,

(41:18):
or I think it's great if you need to help
find sources, right? Obviously, like, sometimes it makes things up.
But you know, to help you get that entry point
into finding the sources. I think that's all right.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
You know, excellent.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
But yeah, when Hank Green was like, I used it
to like, I think he said to like, combine two chapters.
I don't want to speak out of turn because I
don't remember exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, his people were not happy. His people were like,
the reason we trusted you is because you did your
own research.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
And was kind of an expert in all the things.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Also the topics he was covering was kind of like, hmm.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Lord.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah. Yeah. We, once a month we have a wonderful
guest on, Bridget, who is like our tech person. We
ask all the questions too. And she just released a
book about AI. And I am so excited. I want
to ask her because there has been a big controversy

(42:18):
about AI in the fan fiction world. And everybody knows
it's Claude. And so Claude has now become like a
term you use to say, like, this is a bad guy.
If his name is Claude, he's like the villain. I'm like,
how did we know it was Claude? I just want
to know. Can you tell the difference?

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Cool. I mean... Wow, that's a good question. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
I mean, I have personal thoughts about, like, I think
ChatGPT is a little bit of a better writer than Claude.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Oh, interesting.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
I'm so curious.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
We usually have more serious questions to ask Bridget when
she's on, so I haven't asked her yet. But I
want to know.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
I want to know, too. Please ask her.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Another thing to report back.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Something else, so kind of the flip side.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Before we went on this AI tangent about turning reading
into work and what that looks like, I read a
quote from you that was about being the most annoying
person to go into a bookstore with because you always
have opinions or like, I was involved with this. And
this was from a while ago. But having a sense
of pride of like, oh, I know this book and

(43:32):
I know this author and all, I kind of contributed
to that in some way. What has that, what is
that like for you? What has that process been like
for you that in like things that give you that feeling.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Oh, I mean, it's thrilling to see a book that
you worked on in any capacity at a bookstore. Like that,
that never goes away. It's so exciting to be like,
you see that? Yeah, I worked on that. And then
to like have your name in the acknowledgements is, it's so,
this is, please, everybody listening, please always read the acknowledgements.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
When you read a book, read the.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
Acknowledgements because the people who are named in there really
matter to that book success, whether it's, you know, people
in their personal life or people that.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
They worked with.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
And you also might be surprised to like see certain
names pop up or, you know, you'll learn things about
the person's process. I just always read the exaltments. Yeah, no,
it's very exciting. Or even, I mean, books that like
my friends worked on.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
I'm like, oh yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
Obviously, since I haven't been in publishing for like over
like six, seven years now, you know, I, I'm seeing
that much less, but yeah, when I, when I do see,
even if it's like a new book from an author
that I worked with, you know, a decade ago or whatever,
that's always very exciting. Like it was really, really exciting

(44:54):
when the finished copies of the books would come in
and it didn't matter. Like you could be at the
end of your rope. You're like, I have hated working
on this book. This is just like, I'm so ready
to be done with it. Like I just can't, deal
with this anymore like I needed to just hit show
so I could move on and you'd get the finished
book and you're like oh this is exciting like I'm

(45:15):
gonna put it up at my desk.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah that makes complete sense I think my version of
this being the like annoying friend we have bingo cards
for all of our close friends in this one group
and mine is well I did an episode on that
and here's the fact that you need to know I

(45:40):
try not to, but it is difficult.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
You're probably a great person for trivia. You've got all the....

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah. So, you have done... You do a lot of
very niche lists. And as you mentioned, you did one
after the trailer for Wicker came out, which seems like
a very sensual, kind of women-centric movie. And like, And

(46:09):
you were talking about that and smut. So what are
some places that you've found that really surprised you and
were maybe eye-opening?

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Like for my personal taste or just in general?

Speaker 4 (46:22):
I mean, sorry to keep bringing up Dungeon Crawler Carl,
but I'm really surprised by how much I like this series.
I really was not expecting it. That has been such
a treat of this year. And then also, I know
I mentioned this before, but like re-falling in love with
fantasy has been very surprising. You know, when I think

(46:45):
back to the books that I really loved when I
was like 10, they all had some magic in them.
Like I loved Harry Potter. That was a little bit later.
But like Ella Enchanted, I don't know if you ever
read that.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
I love that book.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
She came and spoke at my, like to my class
and I got my book signed.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
I still have it.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
That's so cool.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
I still have it. It's a prized possession.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
I loved like magical realism, like holes in Stargirl. And
then as I got older and, you know, you're an
English major and you want to be cool and you
work in publishing and it's like, okay, well, I'm going
to read literary fiction. I'm going to read more serious stuff.
And I just like kind of forgot how much I

(47:33):
enjoyed Magical Worlds. And the fact that fantasy and romantasy
is so big right now, I kind of had to
like go back into it because I needed to kind
of see like what everybody was so excited about. And
having that re-spark and be like, oh yeah, wait, I'm
really into magic too, was very surprising and delightful. Like

(47:56):
last year for the very first time I read Lord
of the Rings and life-changing. I'm obsessed. It was all
I talked about for like four months. Loved it. I
don't think that I ever would have read it if
I hadn't been forced to go back into fantasy for

(48:17):
this job.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
I love that. That was me in college.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
With Lord of the Rings?

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you know, it oh, dating myself,
all the series was coming out. And so I was like, well,
I need to know what happens next. I can't wait
for three years.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
And those movies are great too.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
I mean, it's just like discovering that you enjoy the
world of Lord of the Rings is such a gift
because there's just so much.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
It keeps going.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
You can learn as much as you want to with
Lord of the Rings.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
I mean, there's so much.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
You can learn Elvish if I would like.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Yeah. The people who are dedicated to do that, they
impress me, I'm not going to lie. Same. So with
all of that, you also write a lot about culture,
including pieces where you examine things that you maybe think
differently on now. What are some experiences in this process
that you've changed your mind or learned something that really

(49:15):
impacted you?

Speaker 4 (49:17):
I mean, I think you're probably talking about the one
that I did about Fame Sick by Lena Dunham. That
was a really interesting reading experience because, so I'm 35.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
So I was in my 20s at Lena Dunham's height.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
And....

Speaker 4 (49:39):
You know, like up until recently, like if you had
talked to 24 year old me, I'd be like, I
hate Lena Dunham. She's so annoying. She is not as
smart or funny as she thinks she is.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
I'm like, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
Why is everybody falling over themselves? And you know, Oh,
she's gross. Every, all the nasty things that everybody has
been saying about her for her whole career. And yeah, reading,
you know, but I, but I did always think that
she was a really good writer, but you would also
hear that a lot. You would hear people say like,

(50:15):
especially women be like, well, I can't stand Lena Dunham,
but she, she is a good writer.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Like I'm going to read her book.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Um, they could give her that we could give her that.
And reading same sec was really illuminating and, Because I mean,
like I've identified as a feminist since I was like 19.

(50:42):
So then, you know, at 35 to be realizing that
my distaste for this other woman really came from just
a lot of like, I know this is like such
like a buzzword term, but like internalized misogyny and things
that I felt really insecure about and things about womanhood
or who you're supposed to be in your twenties and

(51:04):
this and that. It was all of this internal stuff
that I was pushing onto her. And I think like
as a society we were doing and how she had
to weather that and the fact that she has come
out of it and is still funny and open and

(51:25):
willing to share herself with us. I mean, I think
she's like, she kind of has to, It's like in
order for her to exist in this world, she has
to share her life. I was very moved by that.
I really thought that was a beautiful book. And I
hope that... I mean, I know it was like a
big bestseller, so I'm sure they already did. But I
hope a lot of women who are around my age,

(51:47):
maybe like a little older, read it. I think that
like Gen Z seems to like her more. And they
see girls... They see girls kind of as like a
period piece, which is like so.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
We all just had a moment.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
But they don't see her reflecting like exactly themselves back
the way that I think those of us who are
a little older did.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
That makes sense. I mean, it's true. You never know
what is going to resonate with you that you weren't
In that way that you were kind of resistant towards.
I was like that in my 20s as well. I
was like, I'm not going to give this a chance.
I've already made up my mind. But sometimes if you
give something a chance that you really didn't want to,

(52:42):
it can have an impact on you.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
What's your opinion on book to movie TV update adaptations
and how loyal they should be to the source material?

Speaker 4 (53:05):
Oh, I, well, first I really like them. I get
excited when there's going to be an adaptation of a
book that I like, or even there are sometimes there
are books where I'm like, I'm not going to read that,
but I'm, I'm going to watch the movie.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
Like I can give it, you know, two hours. Um, Also, like,
they help introduce... Okay, I never would have read Project
Hail Mary if the movie hadn't come out. But I
saw the movie was coming out. It was doing really well.
I had friends and co-workers who loved it. I was like, well,
I do want to read it before I see it.

(53:42):
That book is so good. I read it on vacation
with two of my friends. And it was, like, all
I talked about.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
Like, we're, like, in.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
Palm Springs, like having a nice time. And I'm like, okay,
so Rocky, just like, I don't know who that is
and I don't care.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Yeah. Loved it.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
And I only read it because of the adaptation. And
then I went and I saw the movie and I
loved the movie and it was just great overall. How
faithful they should be. That is a question that I
think about too. I don't really know because I, Like

(54:24):
on the one hand, I want them to be completely
faithful because if it's a book that I love, I
want to see the scenes that I love on the screen.
But I also understand that sometimes things don't necessarily work
or I don't know, it's a different piece of art.

(54:46):
It's its own thing. And I've gotten to interview a
few authors about their adaptations and they the ones that
seem to have the best experience are the ones that
are able to say like, this is its own thing.
So let's make it the best that it can be.
And we want it to also make the fans happy,

(55:07):
but it's going to be its own.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Work of art.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
And then the book is its own and they like are,
you know, they're sisters.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
But yeah, like, I mean, I don't want to, I
can do this spoiler free. When I went in to
go see Project Hail Mary, I was waiting for the...
I really wanted to see the final scene on screen.
And the fact that they did made me so happy.

(55:37):
I think I would have been really upset if they
had changed that final moment.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
Yeah. Oh, I'm with you. I have this new... I
had this thing where I needed to watch the movie
before the book because oftentimes if I read the book
and the movie was not what I expected, I'm going
to be upset. I remember, I don't know, Where the
Heart Is. Do you all remember Natalie Portman?

Speaker 1 (56:04):
I remember, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
The big scene is a Walmart scene where she gets
left at Walmart by her boyfriend while pregnant. This whole thing. Yeah.
I've just dated myself. Don't worry about it. Don't look
it up. But I remember I had read the book
and loved the book. I loved like what it was.
And then I went to see the movie and I
was so mad. Like even now I have feelings. I

(56:27):
don't even know what the differences are. I barely remember
the name of everything. But I would remember being how
upset I was that it was so, the adaptation was
so different. But I have learned like trying to separate
it out A, again, I need to watch the movie
before the book. But, like, some things don't translate well. Like,

(56:48):
it would be hard to do. And I get that, like,
fantasy level. I know, like, Project Hail Mary, like, I
know that they had to take a lot of stuff
out mainly because, like, they didn't have the time. They
didn't have the full time to do that entire book.
Some of the science stuff that was in there was, like,
a little too intricate and did not translate well. They
had to combine characters, you know, stuff like that. I

(57:10):
get it. So to me, that made more sense. That
makes more sense. When they change things outright, like I do,
like if they change endings, if they take out big,
important characters, I get a little annoyed. I did love
Lord of the Rings for the extended version because at
least they gave you a little more. I needed that
more for the Lord of the Rings. But yeah, it's

(57:33):
interesting to see how these adaptations come out and like,
try to figure it out but it's also interesting to
see like controversies about um of blood and bone is
it children of blood and bone like how big the
divide is right now and like how do you work
that out when like they're so at odds.

Speaker 4 (57:50):
I don't think you do i mean we don't know
what happened as far as i know i have not
read anything we just.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Know it was so much speculation you know a.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
Terrible experience for the author of that series. And she
has like said, I'm not going to watch it. I'm
not going to be a part of it. I'm removing
myself from this, which is so sad. I, you know,
this should be like a exciting, wonderful time for her
and the world that she created. And that breaks my

(58:24):
heart again. Like we don't, we don't know what happened. Um,
And also, from the trailers, it looks incredible. It looks gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
It's interesting. It's interesting because you see that level, especially
on a movie book like this, the success is pretty important.
It's got some really big cultural significance, a big statement
in what's happening with the government and even the world
when it comes to Black writers and artists and actors.

(58:57):
So it's really sad to see this. And maybe that's
part of the conversation. I know there is a real divide,
but maybe it's whatever. But again, that is definitely a
conspiracy theory. that would roam in the back of my head.
But when you see the divide in that, when you
see the authors, it's interesting because this, again, you were
talking about how this is their baby. It's got to

(59:21):
be a heartbreaking moment for her to have to be
like that, whatever the reason may be, to have to
step back.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (59:30):
I think it would probably already be really weird and
really hard. I mean, exciting, but like weird and hard
to see a world and characters and stories that have
up until now really only existed.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
In your mind and in your words be interpreted by
other people.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
But for a lot of authors, that can be a
really joyful, exciting experience. And then for other authors, it
can be like the worst experience. thing that's ever happened
to them and they hate it and it makes them sad.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
And yeah, that it's just, yeah, it's heartbreaking. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
I just went down that tangent. I was like, huh? No,
it's a conversation of like others and such.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
You did.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
You did remind me though, that there was, Oh, what
was it? I can't remember what it was now, but
there was an adaptation that I saw where they, completely
changed something.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
And I was furious.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
This is like a pointless story now because I can't
remember what it is. But I remember I was furious.
It was like, how could you do that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Who do you think you are?

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Getting attached to a book, it's a wild ride. Because
Annie also has this conversation where she gets attached to
the book or the characters and this loyalty. And she's like, ooh,
we have to see. Because we did The Last of Us.
We did a whole series where we did a watch
And like, but she was really worried. Like, are they

(01:00:58):
going to do this justice? Because I'm speaking for her.
I love I'm speaking for you, Annie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
My thing is, I agree. I completely agree that I
understand different mediums. It just won't translate well, as we've
been saying. If it sticks to the heart and core
of the story and the characters, like I hate when
they do character assassination. I'm like, why did you, this
is not what this character was about. But the interesting

(01:01:24):
thing about that is, you know, that's assuming everybody interpreted
it the way I did. And usually that's true. Like
there's a general accepted interpretation. But every now and then
a piece of media comes out and I'm like, I
interpreted this completely differently. And I hate what the audience

(01:01:45):
is in general interpreting it as. So it's complicated. That's
why I was like, I'm just curious what your thoughts
are about this, because I don't think there's a simple answer,
but if they, if it's like, that's just not what
the heart of it was. That's what really gets me.
That's the thing that I can't, I can't stand by that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
I do.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
And also sometimes, especially when you're doing like really big, like,
like lengthwise, really big books, they have to leave out
so much.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Like I, I liked Dune. I liked the movies. I
will be watching the third one.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
But I was, like, very confused by a lot of
stuff in the first movie. And then when I, you know, like,
fallen down rabbit holes afterwards and I was like, oh,
there's all this and there's this backstory and there's this
reasoning and all this stuff that they couldn't or they
didn't incorporate. I was like, this gives me a lot
more context. It kind of makes me be able to, like,

(01:02:45):
get with this world a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Have you had any of your readers or followers disagree
or have a strong opinion in what you have written
in regards to books?

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Like my personal opinion on something?

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Yeah, your personal take or recommendations even?

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
No, I feel very fortunate that so far nobody has
written back being like, I can't believe you loved this.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
This was garbage. That would be distressing, but.

Speaker 4 (01:03:19):
Also it would probably, you know what, if anybody who
is reading it does feel that, like, please do.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
I would like to hear that. Like, let's have that conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
No, the only thing that I can think of that's
really gotten some.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Heated responses is uh, is, which is, is fair.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
And I actually recently, uh, in one of our book picks,
I asked people to write in on this topic because
I'm very curious. And I think it's an interesting, important conversation, uh,
which is the new Harry Potter series that's coming out
from HBO. If people were planning to watch it or not.
And you know, what is their relationship to the books?

(01:04:04):
And there were a lot of people who said, I'm
not going to watch it. Um, I love the books.
I grew up with them. It'll always have a special
place in my heart.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
I cannot continue to support new ventures from this author.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Yeah, we did a whole episode on that and I cried.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Aww.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
I cried in the first 12 minutes. It's horrible. It's embarrassing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Aww.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
I love it because they hurt me so badly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Yeah, we had this moment of understanding this was a
heartbreaking moment for so many, especially like y'all's age, like,
you were in your childhood, and I say y'all because
it's a little bit younger, like, and loving and attaching
to this as if it was a sibling or a
part of your family. So to have that, like, heartbreak,

(01:04:53):
it's a big topic. And it is interesting how you
have to approach this and, like, conversation because the darkness
that it has today is, does not necessarily translate to
the light that it brought to so many people. But
to try to mesh that together as a whole, as
an adult, it's a hard place to navigate.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
It's a hard place to navigate.

Speaker 4 (01:05:14):
And I think people are just, I think a lot
of the theory is like, I shouldn't be having to do, like,
I don't think anybody who loved Harry Potter or loves
thought that they would have to then contend with like bigger,
broader conversations about it. for a lot of them for

(01:05:35):
who they are, like, you know, how do I, how
do I deal with loving what's in this book when
I feel like the person who wrote them hates me? That's,
that's wild for a reader to have to deal with.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
And, and kind of related right now, we are seeing
a lot of things around a lot of, um, pushes
to ban books from conservative forces, a backlash against things
like CRT, queer topics. Is there anything you would recommend

(01:06:16):
that we do to combat that?

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
Oh, I am definitely not an expert on this. I
think there are certain organizations like PEN, their amazing First
Amendment treatment speech organization. Banned Books Week is coming up
in October. I think it's the week of October 4th. Honestly,
one of the biggest things that you can do is
support your local libraries. Like I'm addicted to Libby, but

(01:06:42):
I also have like my little physical library cards.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
On my key chain, you know, make me happy. Yeah.
Support your libraries, support authors.

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
Like I can't imagine how it must feel, especially for
people who are writing books. books for younger readers to
have your book banned and being told that it's like
you know it's dangerous it's so dangerous that we need
to remove it um so supporting those authors following their

(01:07:17):
social media buying their books like you don't obviously buying
books is a great thing to do but also like
it is very expensive like there are a lot of
ways that you can support authors and libraries and organizations
that are fighting book bans with just your time and energy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
We love libraries big fans libraries are right up our
alley so there's so many things you can do there
you can even record podcasts in some of them i
didn't know that they have some recording studios in a
lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Them they do a lot more than people realize i
think yeah they.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Do oh good good library You know what? We kind
of already mentioned book talk, and I'm not going to lie. Like,
I get thrown into book talk, and then I go
down rabbit holes because, like, the tea is there. The
tea is there. And one of the things I also
know is if you can find that big book talk

(01:08:18):
influencer and get your book out there, that might be
the best way. to really advertise your book. So what
are your thoughts on things like book talk or just
the role of social media in general in this realm?

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
Oh, that's really complicated. I have a lot of complicated
thoughts on social media. I mean, I used to be
on it all the time. And then the past few years,
I kind of stopped because I was like, oh, this
doesn't feel like it's super great for me. Personally, I
might get back on it in a more professional sense,

(01:08:54):
but in terms of just my personal posting stories and whatever,
I don't need to be checking to see who watched it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
That's whatever. That's its own thing. And BookTok, I mean, I.

Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
Think to some extent it's been great. It's made reading
a much more communal activity online than it was before.

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
It's absolutely helped.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
Books that otherwise I think would have died on the
vine or been forgotten. Like they're like, you know, older
hidden gems that somebody latches onto on book talk and
then it blows up, which is really cool. I do
think that a lot of the time I see people
recommending the same books over and over and over and

(01:09:51):
over again, which is something that I'm trying to remedy
over in Worth the Read of giving people some deeper cuts,
some books that they're not going to see all over
the place.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
I think....

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
I think the, like, influencer space is just really interesting
in general. Like, what does it mean to be, like,
a book influencer? It's such a, like, a wild new
identity for people to have. But, I mean, overall, it
seems like it's really helped excite people about reading, bring

(01:10:35):
readers together.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
You know, it's changed a lot of authors' lives. I
think on the whole, it's probably a net good. I
just hope that people... use BookTok as.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
A jumping off point, but then still find other ways
to get book recommendations because there's such a huge world
of books out there and BookTok is only a little slice.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Obviously, we could just go on and on and on,
but we do know that you are busy. So before
we say goodbye, are there any... projects on the horizon
that you have that you want to shout out?

Speaker 4 (01:11:17):
Oh, um, really just, just our newsletters, just book picks
worth the read. Uh, book picks is completely free. Worth
the read is subscriber based, but yeah, book picks three
times a week for free. I mean, we are in
the process of trying to launch some other new, exciting

(01:11:40):
little things, but I don't know. I don't think anything
is there yet. I mean, like, I would like to
have some kind of a book club for book picks
are worth a read at some point.

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
That'd be really fun. Yeah, I just just those two.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Well, and it's great, because as you said that you
also have, like podcast and movies, TV to on these sites.
So yeah, there's just And I love like the very
specific niche list. I think that's fantastic. Yeah, we have.

Speaker 4 (01:12:10):
So, I mean, we do have those like flagship ones,
but we also have a bunch of niche newsletters too.
So whatever somebody, we have a sci-fi fantasy one. We
have a food one. We have a wellness.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
We have travel.

Speaker 4 (01:12:25):
We have a interview series that we do called Insider
Picks that goes out every Saturday. We, are trying to
give something for everybody. And if you love to consume
culture like I do, then I.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Like them all. I'm biased, but also I like them all.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Well, this has been such a delight. We definitely want
to do this check-in episode later. I think it's going
to be great.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
At the wedding.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Yes, I can't wait. I can't wait. All of the
rom-com tropes must be there. Yes, but while we wait
for that, where can the good listeners find you?

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
Yeah, so you can find us at pix-media.com.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
That's where you can subscribe to all of our newsletters.

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
And if you're interested in specifically our paid opinion-led ones.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
That is, let me make sure I have it correct.

Speaker 4 (01:13:25):
This one's a little tricky, but it's newsletters.pix-media.com slash Pix Plus.
And there you can read a couple of them. You
can sign up for a seven-day free trial. You can
learn more about me and our other authors.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Yes, and that's Pix, P-I-X.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
Yes. Listeners, definitely go check it out. Thank you so much, Genevieve,
for being here. It has been truly wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Thank you. This was so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Yes, it was. We'll definitely have to do it again.
In the meantime, listeners, if you would like to contact us,
you can. You can email us at hello at stuffonevertoldyou.com.
You can find us on Blue Skype, also podcast, or
on Instagram and TikTok at stuffonevertoldyou. We're also on YouTube.
We have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau, and we have
a book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks,
as always, to our super producer, Rima, and our executive,
Bruce and Maya. And thanks to you for listening. Stuff

(01:14:20):
I Never Told You is a production of iHeartRadio. For
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