March 20, 2026 • 63 mins
Anney and Samantha reflect on the past, give some updates about the present, and discuss the future.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I ho frome stuff. I never told you're protected by
her radio.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And today's episode is brought to you by my allergies,
which has contributed once again to my sounding like one
hundred year old grandma with severe emphasima. Honestly, I described
it as this way to Christina and Annie, which is
like it's a dying toad, which is what I imagine
is like a loud, low squeal an annoying pitch like
(00:42):
because it just sounds like a deflating balloon. But if
that balloon had been smoking all his life.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You also said like a boy going through puberty. So
there's been a lot of fun descriptions.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It changes every day, because it's change every day. Sometimes
I'm like, it sounds fine, and then I keep going
and then I start getting the crunching yeah back noises
with some extra squeaks, and then my tone just drops.
But with that, yeah, unfortunately, this is this episode. I apologize.
(01:19):
I am drinking lots of tea, lots of strone tea,
lots of throat coat. Doesn't seem to be helping too much.
But hey, it's okay, we're here, so I thought we
would take time, and essentially I'm gonna interview you Annie.
But before we start, do you realize we're coming upon
my seven year anniversary of the very first episode we
(01:44):
did together, we released together.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I do know that, and you know why. It's because
you kind of officially started right before the pandemic and
it has been six years since the pandemic. And I
just said I had my quarantin anniversary, So yes, I
didn't know, and that I had a moment of like, wow,
(02:09):
we've been doing this for a minute together.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So I guess even though we were the originators, we
are the longest running hosts pair.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I think so. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Because I think Kristen and Caroline, who were like the
show runners, it was not quite there because Bridget and
Emily came after you and Bridget six and then me
and you. We're getting there. We're getting there. So happy anniversary,
my friend. Happy anniversary with that, you have been in
(02:46):
this industry a lot longer you've been. Honestly, you are
a pioneer of podcasting. Now, I hate to tell you
that that makes me nervous. It doesn't make you nervous. Yes, technically,
if anyone was an expert it would be you.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, in some ways, No.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
What do you mean in some ways? In all of
the ways.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I'd me, I think some things have changed.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Oh sure, but again it still makes you an expert
because you've seen those changes. We've been a part of
those changes.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
That's true. We have seen some changes, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So with that, yes, you are an expert, not just
in some things, in all things podcasting you out like
iheartslash house stuff works outside of NPR. Really was at
the beginning of the helm in this conversation stuff you
should know. At the very beginning, they went like all
of this went from writing to blogs, the videos to
all right, we're gonna do this podcast thing, and that's
(03:50):
where they dug their hills in and this is where
we are. So I thought we would take this opportunity
to talk to the OG and just talk about some
of the changes you've seen, some of the things that
we are doing as Minty as well in this conversation.
So my gravelly graspy really grows voice. I apologize, but
(04:13):
we wouldn't give any more time to speak, I hope.
So with that, let's address a few things. Let's do
some housekeeping things. I feel like we need to do
this at least once a year, if not more, because again,
things do change quite often, and this year we've hit
it with a bang. I mean, I feel like we've
been running NonStop.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. No, I always say something always comes up, and
I'm surprised at how often that is true, even though
it's something I tell myself all the time. So I'm
always like, maybe next week won't be so busy. Maybe
in a month from now things will die down. And then,
(04:55):
like you get a random email and you realize that
you were con wrong once again.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
As many as we publish, as many times as we have,
we were working with a corporation like it's constant for sure,
and yeah, we are trying to give us much good
content for you without overwhelming you our listeners. So we've
changed the format a little bit this season. Well there's
no seasons with us, we're constant, but this year from
(05:25):
now on, which is March nineteen, twenty twenty six, I
didn't say that at the beginning. This is coming up
on our again seven year anniversary of just doing an episode,
because I didn't actually get hired full time till I
think a year later.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
But I've been around, yes, as you plan, do you succeed?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I went back and listened to that first episode. Man anyway,
so Anie, can you kind of give us an update
of what we are doing at this point?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, so you might have noticed, but we've started running
classics for the Monday Mini. This is both for our
workload but also because we were worried about listener fatigue.
And you can write in and let us know if
you have an opinion one way or the other, but
(06:15):
we are trying to or the spirit of the Monday
Mini isn't going away. But if we're all honest with ourselves,
the Monday Mini hadn't been a Mini in a long time.
It was a full episode, and we kept trying to
because the original idea is ten minutes or less because
(06:37):
peep behind the curtains. If you get over ten minutes,
that's when you get the second ad break. So we
were trying to not sugar that for such a short episode,
and they kept getting longer and longer. So the spirit
lives on. In terms of the Monday Mini was originally
meant to be kind of a really news timely type
(07:00):
of thing, but I think we do that in plenty
of our plenty of our episodes, but we're also bringing
back some classics and trying to give them more context.
So the problem is a lot of the times we
bring back a classic this from four years ago, things
have changed so drastically that it's not the easy lift
(07:25):
a classic is supposed to be anymore. Suddenly it's like, oh,
now I need to learn more about what's going on
in France right now, which is what I'm doing for
all classic I'm planning on bringing back soon. So it's
it becomes like more research heavy than what was the
original intent of a classic. So that is a thing
(07:47):
we yes, we have once again run into a roadblock
and bringing back Sex and the City on our Happy Hour,
though we're trying to bring it back. We'll see how
Samantha's voice is doing because we're supposed to record that
on Tuesday. But never fear, we will continue on our
(08:11):
Sex and the City journey. It just might be delayed
once again. We'll see fiction. So this has been giving
me a quandary. Long time listeners know there's an ongoing
fiction segment that I love where we add in Christina
ads and these amazing sound effects, and we read fiction
(08:33):
that I've written. Occasionally, we read fiction from the public domain,
which is always fun. So if you have any suggestions
for that, let us know. I do already have this
thing that I've written. It's been written, I wrote that
forever ago. The problem is, as I said, it's kind
of a like lost footage podcast kind of thing. So
(08:59):
I just need to it's going to be an undertaking.
And the last when we were doing Terminus, that was
pretty straightforward. It was just like a story, a narrative,
a linear narrative pretty much. And this has got a
lot more elements. It's got like a lot of oh,
(09:20):
here's this recording that you find, and oh here's this,
and like different quality of audio and stuff like that.
The funny thing is I recorded the first chapter for
it probably two three years ago. I'm ready, like it's there.
I just need to really nail down how it's going
to sound and if I want to move more of
(09:41):
the pieces to make it less linear, because it's kind
of a mystery. But that is, it's there, and maybe
I'll write something short in the meantime just to get
back into the habit of it. But not forgotten. I mean,
(10:02):
I speak for myself, but I love doing those I
think they're really fine. Well, here's a strange update. So
some of you might have heard of this or seen
this associated with our company. iHeart, but it's this whole
(10:24):
guaranteed human conversation. I mean, I'm human, Samantha is human
as far as I know. It's one of those company
things that I actually found about found out about I
(10:49):
think pretty late, considering I work for said company. But yeah,
they're really touting that this guaranteed human thing. I mean,
I just I would hope you knew that. But you know,
in this day and age, it's true. Who's to say.
(11:10):
Who's to say? We're also getting pushed to use a signature,
like an official company signature, which I'm not like necessarily
opposed to, but I just haven't done and I don't know.
There's just been a lot of these things coming up
of like the company asking us to do stuff which
speaking of that might potentially involve a cruise yes, which
(11:38):
I have to say is giving me a lot of
consternation and trying to to to write about it. But
you know, just keep that in the back of your
mind that could that could maybe happen. If you want
(11:59):
to come come with Sminty at sea. And then yeah.
We mentioned in a previous update that we had been
some some podcasts and our network had been asked to
(12:20):
do TV appearances and specifically with Netflix. There was a
deal with Netflix, but I have not been asked for this.
You were you were potentially going to appear on a
show that did have that element. Did you do it?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
No, that may be happening in May. But because that
was happening and originally I was supposed to be the
first to ever be on Netflix, I said no. I
was like, look, we need to reschedule because I can't
be the first one to do this.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
With yeall, I think that was very fair of view.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
That's not happening right now.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
That was very fair of you. Well you report back
because I don't think I'm going to be asked anytime soon,
and I'm happy with that. I'm right happy to be there.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
As far as we know, Sminty has not been asked
to do so we're going to try to fight against
it for a while. Oh yeah, if ever asked no, thanks. Yeah,
So that's kind of where we are. I think that
maybe new ish or different or just updating. We're trying
(13:35):
to maintain as we've been going as you can hear,
not everything is working our way, including my voice. I
thought we would also take a moment because again as
our anniversary, that we would look at the past, and
(13:58):
especially with Annie again with her expertise, and just kind
of go with what you might remember or what your
thoughts are today versus then if you can't remember, you're
pretty good remembering. So we'll start with this. Do you
remember your first day working with Sminty.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I do remember it, but it kind of happened in
a strange way. So I I was an intern, and I,
to be honest with you, didn't know what I was doing.
And because I had applied for there were two internships
(14:41):
at the company was then how stuff works right, and
I had I had applied for the writing research one,
and for some reason, our boss Jerry later told me
it was enthusiasm. I got the like tech one like
the video when podcast one and I didn't. There's a
(15:07):
reason I didn't apply for that one. So I was
getting to work really early, like seven am every day,
which was a big deal because I was commuting from
about two hours away. Two hours was because I took
public transportation and I was getting there at seven and
I was like learning, teaching myself every day, and I
(15:31):
originally was getting kind of random assignments because podcasting was
new at that point. When Steff Wunderer told you had started,
they had gotten some success already with two other shows,
so it wasn't like super new. But I had worked
(15:51):
on like all of these different podcasts. They would be like,
give it to the intern because they didn't really know
what was going to happen with it, if it was
going to be successful, all of that. So the first
time I worked on Spinty, it was something like that
where it wasn't like my show, but they were like,
everyone's busy, make the intern do it. And I remember
(16:12):
it very clearly because the first twelve minutes didn't record
and I had to stop them and it was Kristen
and Molly at the time, the first two hosts, and
asked them to redo it, and I was so embarrassed,
you know, like the intern doesn't know what she's doing.
To this day, I'm not sure what happened, but they
(16:37):
were very nice about it and they redid it and
the whole the rest of it went off without a hitch.
I don't remember the topic, but I remember those twelve minutes,
because after the twelve minutes, I was like so scared.
I wasn't listening to anything. I was just staring to
(16:58):
make sure it's recording and everything is fine. So I
couldn't tell you the topic. But that was the first
time I did it, and then it happened a couple
of times, like where they would just ask me to
come in on random episodes. I know I did one
about bunnies. I can't remember exactly the context, but I remember,
(17:19):
and it was annoying because we were right next to
Marta Station, our old office, and that's our public transportation
in Atlanta, and so you would have to pause every
time the train came in. So it was frustrating and
that way. But I became more and more confident, and
(17:40):
then I still wasn't there a regular editor. I kind
of became sort of there more like I'd answer the
listener mail and then the YouTube series happened and that
became my whole thing. But I was kind of a
regular editor for them, so it happened in sort of
a bits, and he wasn't a straight line.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
But you got there, yes, you ended up there. Well,
you obviously had gone through different roles, and your time
was spenting going through different things, including video editing and
all of that. What's something you would advise anyone who
is also being thrown into the unknown as you talked about.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I would say to take the steps to learn, but
also don't be afraid to ask people for help. I
thought i'd like my cover had been blown. One day
when I was somebody also came in at seven and
saw me like watching a YouTube video about how to
(18:43):
edit something, and he was like, no, I don't worry
about it. I can help you. Or I also have
to YouTube, but I have to look things up to
They put me on a show as a sub oh
stuff of Genius, Stuff of Genius, and it was an
animated show and now I had to learn and animate
(19:04):
and I had to do it quickly. And the first
one came back with a lot of notes, admittedly, but
they were very kind notes, and the person in charge
of it. Then I did the second one, who was like, yeah,
that's you took all the notes. You've improved. So I
think that willingness to learn and to be okay to
(19:24):
ask for help and to take criticism as long as
it's given from a nice place like to heart, like, Okay,
thank you for taking the time to help me and
then fix it because I remember being like, my life
is ruined. He thinks I can't do this, which is,
(19:45):
you know, I never animated anything before, would you know
this exactly? So I think that I had to have
that moment of complete panic and I'm the worst person ever.
But then I took the notes to heart and then
I did improve to the next one. It's never too
late to learn a new skill, and especially now, I
(20:08):
mean technicality changing all the time. Yeah, I mean, we
used to use final cut to edit audio, and I
think that's pretty much unheard of now. I would have
to learn a whole If I had to go back
and edit audio, I think it would be a mess.
I think I could do it. It's just one of
those things like where you go from a PC to
(20:29):
a Mac and all the shortcuts are different.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
You know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
But yeah, being willing to learn new things and to
lean on other people, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, I don't know anything about Max. That's what you
took from my advice and the entire thing though, I'm like,
I'm just thinking about the simplest thing and just being
able to work a laptop. That would be a thing
i'd had to learn. Okay, Well, then you went on
because you did so many different roles. Well were all
(21:04):
the roles that you played well? Well?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
When I was when I first started, it was anything.
It was like a mish mash of oh, my goodness. Oh.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And then.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
A friend of the show, fellow podcaster Ben Bolin, he
told me when I first started, don't be too good
at anything, because they'll make you do everything.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
And unfortunately, good advice everywhere.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Unfortunately for me, I did not take this advice, so
I got kind of lumped into I was very quick
with data entry. I was very quick with I've talked
about this before, but we h it's called writing meta
and that's basically the title, the description, the keywords, all
this stuff. So I was writing that for like all
(21:56):
the shows, not all the shows, but at the time
we were also owned by Discovery, and so I was
writing it for a lot of their shows. I wasn't
writing it for a lot of house stuff work shows.
So that means I learned a lot about toddlers and
tierras that I wish I didn't know. But epect it's true.
(22:16):
It's very true. I'm not happy about it. But so
I was doing a lot of stuff like that. And
then my old boss, who I loved, would also have
me prank my older like her walls, and that was fun.
I did like that, but it made me nervous because
he could fire me at you know, any point, catches
me in his office with a walkie talkie. I just
(22:38):
don't know. So I got put on a lot of stuff,
and then it was audio. I would say. Audio became
the next thing that they put me on, and uh
kind of like promo stuff, emotional stuff, and then video
(23:01):
became my whole life, I would say for a couple
of years, and it mostly involved Kristen would record by
herself and then send it to me and I would
edit it and I would put in little effects and
then I would she would she would write the meta,
but I would make sure it got published and all
of this. But that was that was probably my big
(23:27):
role for a long time, and that that did require
a lot of It required a lot of stuff beyond that,
is what I'll say. Like I was still answering like
the listener mail and you have to take the screenshot
and you have to like get it on YouTube, and
get it and all these different platforms have different specificities,
(23:47):
and you know, to younger listeners, I just want you
to know we had to run a code. We had
to like run a code to get stuff up on
certain platforms. This is how old some of this was.
So that was it for until twenty sixteen. That's when
Kristen and Caroline left the podcast, and that is when
(24:11):
I got asked to host it. And at the time
I had been on Savor. That was my first host
gig for a year. I think like maybe a couple months.
But it was within like I because we started on
sav Our March and they left in November. So I
(24:33):
was really nervous about it and I turned it down.
I'm so nervous because it's like a it was the
show I cared about and I thought was really really important,
and I wasn't sure. And I think that that's one
of the things we've talked about before on the show
is sometimes when when you're afraid of not being the
(24:57):
perfect feminist right, don't do it at all, which is
not the good right thing. But I was like, oh,
I was going to make all these mistakes and what
do I have to say in all of this, But yeah,
I did. I did all kinds of things, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So you waited a bit before you started hosting.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, I never. I never thought about hosting. I wanted to.
I don't know, I wanted to. I wanted to make
documentaries at the time, and I just never considered myself
as a host. And if it wasn't for Lauren over
on Savor, a friend of ours and coworker, she was
(25:41):
the one who asked me, I never would have considered
doing it, just because it It's so interesting to me
how many people in podcasting will tell you they have
performance anxiety or are nervous about people hearing them. Even
though I do like things like acting, I still get
(26:02):
really anxious, and there's kind of a self confidence issue
as well. I was like, oh, no, I could never
do that. No. Wait, But the timing worked because that
was when we moved. We switched from Final Cut to Adobe,
and so I was having to learn a whole new
(26:22):
system and I really didn't like it. And I also
was like coming to terms with the fact that I
do have a hearing problem. And so I got called
at the office once and they asked me like, did
you hear this, and they were like playing back an
example of something I edited and I didn't hear it,
(26:44):
and it became much more of a visual thing because
if you look at the waveforms, you can kind of
see the audio, but if it's really quiet, sometimes you
can't even see that. So it was an odd feeling
of being the person who like trained new hires to
edit to being the person who is like, someone's going
to have to teach me this. And you know, I
(27:06):
wasn't opposed to it, but when Lauren asked me, like, hey,
do you want to try this? And I thought, you know,
if it gets me out of learning this system, I know,
I just made a whole deal about keep learning things.
But it was mostly because I had so much anxiety
about the hearing after that happened. I was, I was
(27:29):
really anxious that, oh, I can't even do this job anymore.
And I'm sure it would have been fine, but I
was I was dealing with too which anxiety is the
worst performing or not being able to hear and do
your job. Yeah, And then you know, I've always I've
(27:55):
said before the podcaster's prayer is don't judge me by
by fifty. My first fifty episodes and I had to
edit the first ones of Savor and I don't look
back on that fondly, but it's just been it's been
a lot of growth and now I now it doesn't
(28:18):
seem so laughable as it did to me at the time, like,
oh I would be a host, that's and you know
what's funny is I can be really oblivious sometimes. But
our like Top Boss, we were at a party and
he asked me about what the future of Sminty should
(28:40):
be right after Kristen Caroline left and after Emily left,
and I just said, you know, well, I hope it
keeps going because I think it's important. And I never
realized that at the time he was thinking like could
she be the next host? It never crossed my mind, thing, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So do you remember your first episode as a host?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I do. It was called am I a bad Feminist?
And it was you know, an o to ruck then
Gay's work, obviously, but it was just me talking about
some of my anxieties on becoming the host. And I
remember very clearly, like talking about how I would go
(29:28):
back and forth about things that I thought, like I
used to bring in cookies all the time to the office,
and then I got in my head about like, oh
am I being like a stereotype and my plans? What
am I doing? And what does that say that I
was overthinking bringing in cookies to the office as a woman.
(29:49):
It was just kind of a discussion about that and
how those were some of the thoughts that were whole
me back, but also some of the things that I
wanted to to talk about. And Bridget was great. Bridget
was a great person to do an episode like that with.
(30:13):
We did do a practice episode before. Yes, it was
on The Final Girl, Yes, and I think that was
our second episode, but we did it twice. We did
it once. It's a practice and we had like a
vocal coach and everything.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah. But you know, when you come on as a
new host, as you know, Samantha, you kind of have
to have an introductory like here's who I am and
here's why I'm here.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Episode yeah, and you kind of already had on it.
But when you are you're obviously an overthinker, as you were.
First episode was kind of you being an overthinker. What
would you tell yourself from that episode to where we
are today, What would you tell your your younger self
in this hosting journey.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I would tell her. I would tell her to read more.
I would tell her to learn more. I feel like
a lot of the mishaps I had in my early
days was because I didn't know maybe some aspect of
a conversation or how something I said might sound, which
(31:28):
again shouldn't stop you from learning, like don't let that
make you freeze up or clam up. But uh, it
was over It was overwhelming in the beginning to think
of all of the books I should have read already
and hadn't. So I would say, don't let to young Annie,
(31:51):
It's okay, you don't know something, go learn about it.
And I also would say, and you know, I'm still
working on this. You do have a voice, and you
can't speak up, you can't interrupt, because I would get
so concerned that everybody knew more than I did. So
(32:13):
I'm like, whilst they're saying that, then oh that must
be right. What do I know? And that's not good
for the host of a show.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
The hard one to learn when you're not used to
doing that.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, and especially Bridget is so like I find her
so like inspiring, and she's so smart, and she's older
than me, and she's like been in the that world
more than I had, Like I'd been in the podcasting
part of it, but she'd been out like doing stuff,
(32:52):
and so a lot of times I feel like she
would kind of try to help me and I'd be like,
uh no, you know what you're talking about. And last
it was about Star Wars, and then she was like, go,
you have this one. But we were also like a
new podcasting duo, so that can take some time to
(33:16):
learn the how you do the outlines and how you
interact with each other. I don't know. There's a lot
of things. I guess stop trying to please everybody and
stop trying to be like the past host because you're
not them, right, Yeah, because nobody's happy at that point.
I think those are some of the big things that
(33:37):
I would tell my younger self when she first started.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
It's a good one, some good things. I feel like
you're still telling yourself these things though.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, it's a slow learning process, but it is a process.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So what is something that you look back on and
that has given you pride in this work?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Hmm. I think it's it's a couple of things I do.
I've learned a lot I personally have learned a lot,
and I feel like I've grown a lot, and whether
that is through my professional work and what I do,
(34:26):
the confidence and what I do, just the books we
read and the topics we cover and hearing from listeners,
hearing from listeners and having listeners connect with what we
have talked about. I am proud of the book. As
stressful as the process was, and as much as I
(34:47):
like knowing what I know now might do things differently,
I was proud of that. And I'm proud of you, Samantha.
I'm working with you and that we have that conversation
so many years ago, and here we are. Here we are, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Me and my gravelly self. Here we are as a
dynamic duo.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yes, we support each other. When your voice is gone,
I'll just talk a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Please I need to do. And with that, how much
have you seen change since you started Sminty to today's Well,
good question.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I know, yeah, it is technologically a lot. Uh. I mean,
I wish I could show you this code. Maybe I'll
send it to you, Samantha. It was wild what we
had to do to get stuff published, and it had
very like you're entering code. I'm not talking about like
(35:50):
you press enter, you have to do the like specific
parameters as the person trying to upload. It was a
wild time. Uh. And then I think just the way
we record now is very different. Obviously because the pandemic,
we're doing it from home. But even so, I think
(36:10):
that's changed quite a bit. Some of the rules that
I'm used to that I still uphold no one else
does anymore. In terms of the show itself, We've discussed
this before, but it has changed from something that was
what we call evergreen topics like why do women shay?
(36:34):
Or whatever? It is too much more varied topics, but
also news, a lot more news, a lot more politics,
kind of a more viewpoint when it comes to that.
And don't get me wrong, the past host same way,
they felt the same way. It's just the topic has
kind of the topics have kind of shifted more of
(36:58):
that direction. I once a bunch of those evergreen topics
get used up, and it makes sense, but it also
makes it kind of harder to bring back classics actually,
because the world has changed so much since a lot
of these conversations have happened. And sometimes randomly a listener
(37:18):
will write in about an episode that came out in
twenty twelve or something, and they're like, this, the weird
take is terrible, blah blah blah. I'm like, that came
out in twenty twelve, my friends, right, and I'm not
the host. I wasn't the host then, But also things
have changed since that time.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's also weird when yeah, we get accusations about or
like even like redos, like people will repost old posts,
old episodes, and then people could try to confind it
and they're like, maybe that was like thousands of episodes ago.
Good luck.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, yeah, And I also we used to do that.
We would put all of our the links to our
research and the episode descriptions, and then because of all
of these moving pieces, basically the platforms we used to
(38:15):
upload things, it became harder and harder. So we stopped
doing that, and I wish we still did it, but
we try to keep them in our outline so if
you do want one, we can send it to you.
Some of them are pages long, so some of our
like just resources, pages and pages and pages. I don't
even want to think about my Princess Leiah outline. But
(38:38):
sometimes we'll get a listener and they'll ask for a
source on an episode from like Bridget's time, and I
don't know. I don't have access to that because we've
gone through many hosts and the way that we have
our outlines and the like permissions and things that it works,
how it works. I can't get you that information. I
(39:01):
would love to, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Right the way everybody did it was different too.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, we really didn't have a standard system.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Still don't panically.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Not really, but you and I know what you and
I and we specifically are doing.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
But outside of that, Yeah, So do you remember our
first episode we kind of already talked about this, yes,
the title are We Failures? How did you feel about
that episode?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
I remember, I remember enjoying it, like I thought it
was a good conversation. It was the start of our
like Trauma mini series and we were starting with again
kind of your intro of even though we didn't know
you were going to be full time at the time
of You know, we haven't met these goalpost yet. We
haven't met these things that people told us we should
have done already. And it is fascinating to look back
(39:57):
on now because I think like our perspectives have changed
since then, and you know, especially like speaking for myself,
I'm like, nah, forget those Goldfos girls.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Part of that was we couldn't get to those points,
you know what I mean, Like yeah, whether it was financially,
whether it was like emotionally, whether any of those things. Yeah,
we couldn't get to there. So it felt like we
were failing. Now we could possibly get to there, like
it's possible, we just don't want.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
To, yeah, And I think that makes all the difference.
Like yeah, but because at the time I did think
I was a failure because I hadn't done those things,
or at least a part of me did, because you
kind of reminded of it pretty consistently in society as
a woman, as a single woman especially, and so even
(40:52):
though I might not agree with it, might not actually
want it, I did feel it, whereas now I'm much
more actually I am good. And you know, at the time,
I hadn't come out as ACE yet, so I didn't
know so I those episodes, Yeah, I hadn't worked through
(41:16):
that yet. So it's it's a time capsule for sure.
But I think that the conversation is still relevant. I
think people feel that way, and there are certainly some
times where I still struggle with that feeling, but nowhere
near it as much as I did back then.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I feel like everything changed with the pandemic too. Yeah
it I'll go up without the window times to still
like it doesn't matter anymore. Yeah, yeah, pretty much, and
probably with like the state of the world honestly in general.
I mean, I think we've already answered the question, but
looking back, like we realized, I mean, we knew it
then it just felt like the pressures, but we knew
(41:54):
we weren't failures then. But it feels like more honest now.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, it does. And I do agree with you. The
pandemic and the world's events really changed a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I think that was a shift too when we started
getting TikTok, because it was during that point in time
two that was coming about, and it shifted from the
Instagram world where everything was perfect and you were competing
with everybody's like, oh, just look at what I'm doing,
how cool I am? And then TikTok all of a
sudden shifted that and be like, no, that's not real,
that's not honest. This is a real life, and we
(42:34):
all started realizing, oh, we're kind of in the same place,
whether it's we're all struggling because of this or we're
all changing because of this. But in like the Instagram days,
it was the perfect food picture, it was a perfect
travel picture, it was a perfect family pictures and somehow,
and not to say that TikTok is great, but that's
kind of shifted that narrative. And so millennials were real
(42:56):
honest about like, no, parenting is not great. If you
don't want it, don't do it. Like it was that
level that it started shifting away, and I feel like
we all came to be very again. And I think
something I had to do with the COVID because people
were showing more real life stuff of them struggling because
of COVID, more real life as struggling because of the administration,
Like that became more nuanced in that like, oh, we
(43:20):
these are catered to a specific idea, and because of
everything breaking loose and how the format was changing, we understood, oh,
there is no standard anymore, it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I went to the grocery store
yesterday without alebrawn. I never would have done that before, never,
But not like what who cares? Who cares?
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Well? With that how do you think we've grown since
then or have we have we just become more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I think we have grown. I mean, as I said,
when you get a new host and just a new dynamic,
there's a learning curve right there. And you know, we
had had meetings before then, and I think we had
a good rapport, so it wasn't like a shock or
anything like that. But it's just kind of learning the
(44:17):
new process, especially for you because you had never podcasted before.
So in the early days we recorded, we would research together,
and I think that helped. I think it also helped
that we we had kind of a it was a
mini series at that point, so we had structured like
(44:37):
where it was going to go. And then I think
when you came on full time, that's when I feel
like there was a more bigger learning curve actually, just
because we didn't have like a we didn't have a
structure anymore. The Trauma mini series was over, and so
we had to figure out what our dynamic it's going
(45:00):
to be without that, and and just how the research
process would work if we weren't researching together, like physically together.
I feel like we've worked. We still we do kind
of a hybrid. We do some episodes you research completely,
some my research completely, and some we like double tag team. Yeah,
(45:24):
but I feel like we've gotten to a better place
and especially like knowing who like who can tackle which topic.
Sometimes we mix that up, but you know, we've got
all We've got a variety of stuff we talk about here.
We do.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
I think one of the ways that we were able
to acclimate better, honestly is when everything changed for everyone.
So it almost was like scrapping everything.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Then.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
It wasn't just because a new host came on. It
was because we were working from home. We were doing
from two episodes to five, Like it went from like
jump Jump ju Jump, and we were like, okay, literally,
it's like almost planning a brand new show with the
same things. Yeah, And it was interesting to like look
(46:16):
at it and then like we were trying to bring
hope and what seems like, I mean, we've talked about
this before with the listeners and the audience, like before,
like because our topic, and we even talked about it
as we are planning to do future episodes with sponsors
that want uplifting I would assume uplifting happy topics and
(46:37):
we're like with the world as it is, and the
attacks that we see is hard to be constantly. It's
hard to find the bright light sometimes the good good
points because it feels like it's a constant attack that
we need to be aware of. But like I feel like,
especially again with the pandemic and with how COVID went
(46:57):
and with how the administration was going at the time, time,
we were like, Okay, we have to bring hope in
this very bleak theme that we have, because not because
we're making it bleak, but because the way it is
being treated. Intersexual feminism, feminism in general, any kind of
equity and equality when it comes to diversity, marginalized communities,
it's hard to make it hopeful because the rest of
(47:22):
the world has kind of shifted in seeing that as
not you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, yeah, Being on a show like this one is
it does involve a lot of change because the news
is changing and because intersectional feminism touches everything, and so
(47:52):
it's difficult to balance. We don't want to ignore a topic,
but also we do want to bring that hope, and
even even in the dark episodes, we try to bring that.
But it can feel like a concern of people are said, well,
(48:15):
you're not talking about this where you're not doing this
or any kind of thing like that. And I can
feel it like personally myself, but it's it is something
we consider and it's it's something that does change with
(48:37):
the times.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
We really had to try to figure out how to
balance all of that. It was really interesting because past
his host Caroline, we've talked about She and I have
talked about her past work and you know how it
affected her, and she talked about how one of the
things that she was so excited about when she left,
specifically this type of topic, is that she didn't have
(48:58):
to be as plugged in, Like not that she didn't,
not that she's just not aware, and not that she's
not like understanding the depth of it, but being constantly
aware of all of the like being on top of
all of the news, and most of the news is
not good and most of the news feels like it's
just fighting constantly and bad news. Like being able to
unplug from that for a minute, she was like, Oh
(49:19):
my god, I'm a whole different person, and like knowing
what we do, we're constantly like I'm constantly being fed
information about all the dark stuff and all the gross stuff,
and we're talking there just like deaths and like you know,
sexual harassment, like right now, that's all of our media
and we're like realizing having to try to balance that
(49:42):
with good mental health so we can keep going. That's
been a learning curve in itself.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, and once again one that we've been attempting since
the beginning, because when we did our Trauma mini series
when you first started, at the end of every episode,
we had kind of a what are you doing to
take care of yourself? What are you doing? And every
guest we have that's like involved in activism, we ask
(50:13):
them and almost every one of them doesn't have a
great answer. Sometimes people come in with a great answer,
usually though they're like, I'm not good at it.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
That's the hardest question for them.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Typically Yes, So I think it's fair. We're all we're
all still earning that. And in some days, what I'm
trying to tell myself is some days I have a
really good day. Yesterday it was a really good day
for me. Some days I have a really bad day
and I'm not good at the self care part. But
some days I have a really good day, And so
(50:45):
I'm gonna I'm trying to make those days more often
beside but celebrating when it's there. I was so happy,
I can't even tell you how happy.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Was amazing and maybe a cat come in your way.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
What some advice you'd give to upcoming podcasters? As podcasting
kind of already changed, but some advice you would give
to them those who are still seeking to do this.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
I would love to hear from new podcasters who have
found success. My big advice has always been, don't find
your idea, be clear on your voice, think about your audience,
who you want your audience to be. Don't try to
(51:43):
make something everyone will like. I think that there's a
chance everyone will like it, but don't keep Don't have
that be the thing like I said when I first
started and I was just completely flat because I wanted
everyone to like me. I would put a lot of
(52:05):
thought into that. And that's not to say it won't
change or can't change, but having that is sort of
your compass of this is how we're going to do
the episodes. I do think it's useful too do a
practice like bridget nine did or something like that. If
(52:27):
you're going with the co host from the last statistics
I read, Traditionally, co hosted shows are more successful, but
double check on that. But if you are going with
co host doing those tests and having those conversations and
planning it out, and then you know, if you don't know,
kind of learning the ins and outs of publishing, podcasting,
(52:54):
of editing, like who's going to do who's going to edit?
Is that? Are you going to get to the moment
where you and your friend want to publish it and
then you don't know who's going to edit it? Uh,
maybe you have a bigger team than that. I don't know.
But just knowing those roles who's going to do what,
and preparing yourself for criticism and let it unless it's constructive,
(53:23):
let it slide off your back. Do not let that
get to you. So I promise you it will breaking down.
It is a real, real learning curve. I mean, the
things I have heard about myself unnecessarily do unnecessary I
(53:45):
don't need. I don't need that, So preparing for that
and it's that's okay. Unfortunately that's well, it's not okay.
But unfortunately that's the internet like landscape we live in.
So it's gonna happen, especially depending on the topic.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
True, it's true, Oh, gosh, well, I was gonna say,
let's let's talk about the future. You love a good prediction.
I loved what do you think is the future of
podcasting and specifically our show.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Oh No, once again the pandemic burned me on this,
so we did our prediction episode in twenty twenty never again.
That will never be a classic. I will never listen
to it. It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Now they're gonna be people going to try to go
find it.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Don't do it, listeners, It's gonna make you sad. We
were very because you were so whole. Don't do it. Well,
I kind of I'm not sure about the future of
podcasting because just today I had a thought. But where
(55:02):
I was watching, I still get ads somehow. I'm like
one of the few people I know that I as
an AD came up and it was a video podcast
ad and I was like, wow, now this has gotten
so far. It's a commercial, It's made it all the
(55:23):
way here. So there's a part of me which we've
discussed before. And I actually have a really funny memory
of being in New Orleans and we were at a
bar and me and Lauren and Dylan who was Dylan
used to produce Spinty and they had an SNL on
(55:45):
in the back and it was a sketch about the potties,
which was like the Podcasting Awards, and they were making
fun of how many podcasts there are. And that was
years ago, twenty eighteen, and just this explosive growth of podcasts.
I don't know if that's like, I don't think it's sustainable.
(56:08):
I don't know if it's going to burst. I'm not
sure they're very popular. I don't think they're going to
go away, but I'm not sure if there's going to
be kind of a diminishing or if you'll just keep
going and going, and who knows, who knows. For our
(56:30):
podcast specifically, I think that we're going to keep doing
what we're doing. I think we've been doing a really
good job on interviews and just the wide range of
(56:50):
topics we cover, and potentially there will be some travel involved.
The world feels very uncertain right now, so I don't
think seems to be.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Able to stand still. But yeah, yeah, we'd like to
get to that point. And with that, I was thinking,
because I know we have some of the best listeners
and supporters, one we would love to hear from y'all
about what you would like to see a little more of,
a little less of all those things, because we love
good suggestions. But maybe Annie, do you think can you
(57:27):
think of things that the listener, how the listener could
support us as well? Maybe?
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Well, listeners, we love you. We would not be here
without you. And I just want to say I want
to apologize first, because if you've been listening to this show,
you know I kind of went into a deep depression
(57:52):
in November. I went into a deep depression in November,
and then in January I became hyper fixated. And I
am coming out of it. But the listener mail, I
have been not answering as well as I normally do,
(58:15):
but I have plans to start doing it again. This
is why yesterday it was so exciting when I was
like doing a very basic thing, like you can care
of myself. I feel like I'm coming out. I like
what was seeing the light for the first time. Yeah,
But anyway, please keep writing in. Don't stop just because
(58:36):
I haven't, or none neither of us have responded. Don't
stop doing that. We love hearing from you. We love
hearing your thoughts and what you want to hear. Even
if it's just like, hey, I feel the same way,
because it's sometimes this does feel like you're screening in
to avoid and no once hearing it. So we love
(58:57):
hearing from you. We are so we would not be
here if you were not listening to this, So thank
you for keeping up listening and downloading all of that stuff.
If you would like. We do have a book you
could support us that way, And we do have some
merchandise at Cotton Bureau and it's it looks pretty good,
(59:20):
so you can check that out.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
I ordered a few things. I got a cute, very
soft T shirt.
Speaker 2 (59:25):
Yeah, yeah, I really like it. They're not technically a sponsor,
I guess, but no, our merchandise is there, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:32):
You know, getting to know our name, yeah, and anything
with like future events also one of the things that
I'm thinking, like, we have so many, so many amazing guests.
So if y'all can help spread the word, especially when
we're doing some of these amazing interviews and they take
the time to come and talk to us, we love
when you do that because I know I definitely get
(59:53):
a lot of notices on social media showing that y'all
are reposting or liking and we did not respond because
I have become real bad about social media. I hate
it with a passion so much, especially because I feel
like I'm going to say the wrong things, do the
wrong things, or you know, all the maybe not enough things.
So I definitely just avoid it altogether. But I see
(01:00:15):
y'all have tagged us when we're on your Spotify top
podcast listeners. All of that that warms our heart. We
do see it. Keep letting us know, even though we
sell like the bad friend who is stucking depress us
where we just look at the message and move on,
we do read them. It just might take us a
minute to get back to you, but it is so
(01:00:36):
encouraging to see. And also letting us know what you
do and don't like that really does help, especially like
I said, like Ay said, constructive criticism really helps us
and helps shape these episodes help shape what we do
and we're trying. I can't say the like used to
throw the word around of relevant, trying to make relevant
(01:00:57):
content and relevant things we still want to know because
it's just the two of us sometimes so we get
into our own little holes. So having more perspective is
so helpful.
Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Yes, it absolutely is so thank you. I really wouldn't
be here without you, and we do love hearing from you.
I love a lot of game recommendations we've gotten. Yes,
that was very much appreciated, topic suggestions, and just some
people write in like I connect to this and here's
my experience, and thank you for taking that time and
(01:01:34):
for being here. Well, I hope you enjoyed that walkdown
memory lane. And I feel like I was just reliving.
Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
My past so much.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Man, many twenty ten, that's when I.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Start talking about all the snacks.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Oh, I don't think you actually did that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
No, in my the past episodes. I mean like I
was listening to the past episodes because I was like
going back, and I was like, I really was obsessed
with our.
Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Snacks they had. We had good snacks.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
It was good snacks, and they had our lunches and
breakfast once a week and I would go in just
for that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Yes, man, our new office does not have good snacks.
There's many reasons we don't go into the new office, and.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
That is one.
Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
That is one didn't have enough water either. Anyway, I
hope B isn't listening to this one. Yeah, that's that's
the message. That's the message. Tell us what your office
situation is. Listeners if you have one, you can email
us at Hello, at stuff Whenever Told You dot Com.
You can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
(01:02:40):
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff one Never Told You.
We might not answer, but the message will be read
it maybe one day answered. Yes, very much appreciated. You
can also find us on YouTube. And yes we do
have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau. And yes we do
have a book you can get where you get your books.
Thanks as always too, our super Christine, our executor priser
My and our contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Thank you, We love you, Yes, we.
Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Love all of them, and thanks to you for listening.
Steffan Never Told You is production by Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or if you listened
to the favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I ho frome stuff. I never told you're protected by
her radio.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
And today's episode is brought to you by my allergies,
which has contributed once again to my sounding like one
hundred year old grandma with severe emphasima. Honestly, I described
it as this way to Christina and Annie, which is
like it's a dying toad, which is what I imagine
is like a loud, low squeal an annoying pitch like
(00:42):
because it just sounds like a deflating balloon. But if
that balloon had been smoking all his life.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You also said like a boy going through puberty. So
there's been a lot of fun descriptions.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It changes every day, because it's change every day. Sometimes
I'm like, it sounds fine, and then I keep going
and then I start getting the crunching yeah back noises
with some extra squeaks, and then my tone just drops.
But with that, yeah, unfortunately, this is this episode. I apologize.
(01:19):
I am drinking lots of tea, lots of strone tea,
lots of throat coat. Doesn't seem to be helping too much.
But hey, it's okay, we're here, so I thought we
would take time, and essentially I'm gonna interview you Annie.
But before we start, do you realize we're coming upon
my seven year anniversary of the very first episode we
(01:44):
did together, we released together.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I do know that, and you know why. It's because
you kind of officially started right before the pandemic and
it has been six years since the pandemic. And I
just said I had my quarantin anniversary, So yes, I
didn't know, and that I had a moment of like, wow,
(02:09):
we've been doing this for a minute together.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So I guess even though we were the originators, we
are the longest running hosts pair.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I think so. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Because I think Kristen and Caroline, who were like the
show runners, it was not quite there because Bridget and
Emily came after you and Bridget six and then me
and you. We're getting there. We're getting there. So happy anniversary,
my friend. Happy anniversary with that, you have been in
(02:46):
this industry a lot longer you've been. Honestly, you are
a pioneer of podcasting. Now, I hate to tell you
that that makes me nervous. It doesn't make you nervous. Yes, technically,
if anyone was an expert it would be you.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, in some ways, No.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
What do you mean in some ways? In all of
the ways.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I'd me, I think some things have changed.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Oh sure, but again it still makes you an expert
because you've seen those changes. We've been a part of
those changes.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
That's true. We have seen some changes, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So with that, yes, you are an expert, not just
in some things, in all things podcasting you out like
iheartslash house stuff works outside of NPR. Really was at
the beginning of the helm in this conversation stuff you
should know. At the very beginning, they went like all
of this went from writing to blogs, the videos to
all right, we're gonna do this podcast thing, and that's
(03:50):
where they dug their hills in and this is where
we are. So I thought we would take this opportunity
to talk to the OG and just talk about some
of the changes you've seen, some of the things that
we are doing as Minty as well in this conversation.
So my gravelly graspy really grows voice. I apologize, but
(04:13):
we wouldn't give any more time to speak, I hope.
So with that, let's address a few things. Let's do
some housekeeping things. I feel like we need to do
this at least once a year, if not more, because again,
things do change quite often, and this year we've hit
it with a bang. I mean, I feel like we've
been running NonStop.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. No, I always say something always comes up, and
I'm surprised at how often that is true, even though
it's something I tell myself all the time. So I'm
always like, maybe next week won't be so busy. Maybe
in a month from now things will die down. And then,
(04:55):
like you get a random email and you realize that
you were con wrong once again.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
As many as we publish, as many times as we have,
we were working with a corporation like it's constant for sure,
and yeah, we are trying to give us much good
content for you without overwhelming you our listeners. So we've
changed the format a little bit this season. Well there's
no seasons with us, we're constant, but this year from
(05:25):
now on, which is March nineteen, twenty twenty six, I
didn't say that at the beginning. This is coming up
on our again seven year anniversary of just doing an episode,
because I didn't actually get hired full time till I
think a year later.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
But I've been around, yes, as you plan, do you succeed?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I went back and listened to that first episode. Man anyway,
so Anie, can you kind of give us an update
of what we are doing at this point?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, so you might have noticed, but we've started running
classics for the Monday Mini. This is both for our
workload but also because we were worried about listener fatigue.
And you can write in and let us know if
you have an opinion one way or the other, but
(06:15):
we are trying to or the spirit of the Monday
Mini isn't going away. But if we're all honest with ourselves,
the Monday Mini hadn't been a Mini in a long time.
It was a full episode, and we kept trying to
because the original idea is ten minutes or less because
(06:37):
peep behind the curtains. If you get over ten minutes,
that's when you get the second ad break. So we
were trying to not sugar that for such a short episode,
and they kept getting longer and longer. So the spirit
lives on. In terms of the Monday Mini was originally
meant to be kind of a really news timely type
(07:00):
of thing, but I think we do that in plenty
of our plenty of our episodes, but we're also bringing
back some classics and trying to give them more context.
So the problem is a lot of the times we
bring back a classic this from four years ago, things
have changed so drastically that it's not the easy lift
(07:25):
a classic is supposed to be anymore. Suddenly it's like, oh,
now I need to learn more about what's going on
in France right now, which is what I'm doing for
all classic I'm planning on bringing back soon. So it's
it becomes like more research heavy than what was the
original intent of a classic. So that is a thing
(07:47):
we yes, we have once again run into a roadblock
and bringing back Sex and the City on our Happy Hour,
though we're trying to bring it back. We'll see how
Samantha's voice is doing because we're supposed to record that
on Tuesday. But never fear, we will continue on our
(08:11):
Sex and the City journey. It just might be delayed
once again. We'll see fiction. So this has been giving
me a quandary. Long time listeners know there's an ongoing
fiction segment that I love where we add in Christina
ads and these amazing sound effects, and we read fiction
(08:33):
that I've written. Occasionally, we read fiction from the public domain,
which is always fun. So if you have any suggestions
for that, let us know. I do already have this
thing that I've written. It's been written, I wrote that
forever ago. The problem is, as I said, it's kind
of a like lost footage podcast kind of thing. So
(08:59):
I just need to it's going to be an undertaking.
And the last when we were doing Terminus, that was
pretty straightforward. It was just like a story, a narrative,
a linear narrative pretty much. And this has got a
lot more elements. It's got like a lot of oh,
(09:20):
here's this recording that you find, and oh here's this,
and like different quality of audio and stuff like that.
The funny thing is I recorded the first chapter for
it probably two three years ago. I'm ready, like it's there.
I just need to really nail down how it's going
to sound and if I want to move more of
(09:41):
the pieces to make it less linear, because it's kind
of a mystery. But that is, it's there, and maybe
I'll write something short in the meantime just to get
back into the habit of it. But not forgotten. I mean,
(10:02):
I speak for myself, but I love doing those I
think they're really fine. Well, here's a strange update. So
some of you might have heard of this or seen
this associated with our company. iHeart, but it's this whole
(10:24):
guaranteed human conversation. I mean, I'm human, Samantha is human
as far as I know. It's one of those company
things that I actually found about found out about I
(10:49):
think pretty late, considering I work for said company. But yeah,
they're really touting that this guaranteed human thing. I mean,
I just I would hope you knew that. But you know,
in this day and age, it's true. Who's to say.
(11:10):
Who's to say? We're also getting pushed to use a signature,
like an official company signature, which I'm not like necessarily
opposed to, but I just haven't done and I don't know.
There's just been a lot of these things coming up
of like the company asking us to do stuff which
speaking of that might potentially involve a cruise yes, which
(11:38):
I have to say is giving me a lot of
consternation and trying to to to write about it. But
you know, just keep that in the back of your
mind that could that could maybe happen. If you want
(11:59):
to come come with Sminty at sea. And then yeah.
We mentioned in a previous update that we had been
some some podcasts and our network had been asked to
(12:20):
do TV appearances and specifically with Netflix. There was a
deal with Netflix, but I have not been asked for this.
You were you were potentially going to appear on a
show that did have that element. Did you do it?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
No, that may be happening in May. But because that
was happening and originally I was supposed to be the
first to ever be on Netflix, I said no. I
was like, look, we need to reschedule because I can't
be the first one to do this.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
With yeall, I think that was very fair of view.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
That's not happening right now.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
That was very fair of you. Well you report back
because I don't think I'm going to be asked anytime soon,
and I'm happy with that. I'm right happy to be there.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
As far as we know, Sminty has not been asked
to do so we're going to try to fight against
it for a while. Oh yeah, if ever asked no, thanks. Yeah,
So that's kind of where we are. I think that
maybe new ish or different or just updating. We're trying
(13:35):
to maintain as we've been going as you can hear,
not everything is working our way, including my voice. I
thought we would also take a moment because again as
our anniversary, that we would look at the past, and
(13:58):
especially with Annie again with her expertise, and just kind
of go with what you might remember or what your
thoughts are today versus then if you can't remember, you're
pretty good remembering. So we'll start with this. Do you
remember your first day working with Sminty.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I do remember it, but it kind of happened in
a strange way. So I I was an intern, and I,
to be honest with you, didn't know what I was doing.
And because I had applied for there were two internships
(14:41):
at the company was then how stuff works right, and
I had I had applied for the writing research one,
and for some reason, our boss Jerry later told me
it was enthusiasm. I got the like tech one like
the video when podcast one and I didn't. There's a
(15:07):
reason I didn't apply for that one. So I was
getting to work really early, like seven am every day,
which was a big deal because I was commuting from
about two hours away. Two hours was because I took
public transportation and I was getting there at seven and
I was like learning, teaching myself every day, and I
(15:31):
originally was getting kind of random assignments because podcasting was
new at that point. When Steff Wunderer told you had started,
they had gotten some success already with two other shows,
so it wasn't like super new. But I had worked
(15:51):
on like all of these different podcasts. They would be like,
give it to the intern because they didn't really know
what was going to happen with it, if it was
going to be successful, all of that. So the first
time I worked on Spinty, it was something like that
where it wasn't like my show, but they were like,
everyone's busy, make the intern do it. And I remember
(16:12):
it very clearly because the first twelve minutes didn't record
and I had to stop them and it was Kristen
and Molly at the time, the first two hosts, and
asked them to redo it, and I was so embarrassed,
you know, like the intern doesn't know what she's doing.
To this day, I'm not sure what happened, but they
(16:37):
were very nice about it and they redid it and
the whole the rest of it went off without a hitch.
I don't remember the topic, but I remember those twelve minutes,
because after the twelve minutes, I was like so scared.
I wasn't listening to anything. I was just staring to
(16:58):
make sure it's recording and everything is fine. So I
couldn't tell you the topic. But that was the first
time I did it, and then it happened a couple
of times, like where they would just ask me to
come in on random episodes. I know I did one
about bunnies. I can't remember exactly the context, but I remember,
(17:19):
and it was annoying because we were right next to
Marta Station, our old office, and that's our public transportation
in Atlanta, and so you would have to pause every
time the train came in. So it was frustrating and
that way. But I became more and more confident, and
(17:40):
then I still wasn't there a regular editor. I kind
of became sort of there more like I'd answer the
listener mail and then the YouTube series happened and that
became my whole thing. But I was kind of a
regular editor for them, so it happened in sort of
a bits, and he wasn't a straight line.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
But you got there, yes, you ended up there. Well,
you obviously had gone through different roles, and your time
was spenting going through different things, including video editing and
all of that. What's something you would advise anyone who
is also being thrown into the unknown as you talked about.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I would say to take the steps to learn, but
also don't be afraid to ask people for help. I
thought i'd like my cover had been blown. One day
when I was somebody also came in at seven and
saw me like watching a YouTube video about how to
(18:43):
edit something, and he was like, no, I don't worry
about it. I can help you. Or I also have
to YouTube, but I have to look things up to
They put me on a show as a sub oh
stuff of Genius, Stuff of Genius, and it was an
animated show and now I had to learn and animate
(19:04):
and I had to do it quickly. And the first
one came back with a lot of notes, admittedly, but
they were very kind notes, and the person in charge
of it. Then I did the second one, who was like, yeah,
that's you took all the notes. You've improved. So I
think that willingness to learn and to be okay to
(19:24):
ask for help and to take criticism as long as
it's given from a nice place like to heart, like, Okay,
thank you for taking the time to help me and
then fix it because I remember being like, my life
is ruined. He thinks I can't do this, which is,
(19:45):
you know, I never animated anything before, would you know
this exactly? So I think that I had to have
that moment of complete panic and I'm the worst person ever.
But then I took the notes to heart and then
I did improve to the next one. It's never too
late to learn a new skill, and especially now, I
(20:08):
mean technicality changing all the time. Yeah, I mean, we
used to use final cut to edit audio, and I
think that's pretty much unheard of now. I would have
to learn a whole If I had to go back
and edit audio, I think it would be a mess.
I think I could do it. It's just one of
those things like where you go from a PC to
(20:29):
a Mac and all the shortcuts are different.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
You know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
But yeah, being willing to learn new things and to
lean on other people, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, I don't know anything about Max. That's what you
took from my advice and the entire thing though, I'm like,
I'm just thinking about the simplest thing and just being
able to work a laptop. That would be a thing
i'd had to learn. Okay, Well, then you went on
because you did so many different roles. Well were all
(21:04):
the roles that you played well? Well?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
When I was when I first started, it was anything.
It was like a mish mash of oh, my goodness. Oh.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And then.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
A friend of the show, fellow podcaster Ben Bolin, he
told me when I first started, don't be too good
at anything, because they'll make you do everything.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
And unfortunately, good advice everywhere.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Unfortunately for me, I did not take this advice, so
I got kind of lumped into I was very quick
with data entry. I was very quick with I've talked
about this before, but we h it's called writing meta
and that's basically the title, the description, the keywords, all
this stuff. So I was writing that for like all
(21:56):
the shows, not all the shows, but at the time
we were also owned by Discovery, and so I was
writing it for a lot of their shows. I wasn't
writing it for a lot of house stuff work shows.
So that means I learned a lot about toddlers and
tierras that I wish I didn't know. But epect it's true.
(22:16):
It's very true. I'm not happy about it. But so
I was doing a lot of stuff like that. And
then my old boss, who I loved, would also have
me prank my older like her walls, and that was fun.
I did like that, but it made me nervous because
he could fire me at you know, any point, catches
me in his office with a walkie talkie. I just
(22:38):
don't know. So I got put on a lot of stuff,
and then it was audio. I would say. Audio became
the next thing that they put me on, and uh
kind of like promo stuff, emotional stuff, and then video
(23:01):
became my whole life, I would say for a couple
of years, and it mostly involved Kristen would record by
herself and then send it to me and I would
edit it and I would put in little effects and
then I would she would she would write the meta,
but I would make sure it got published and all
of this. But that was that was probably my big
(23:27):
role for a long time, and that that did require
a lot of It required a lot of stuff beyond that,
is what I'll say. Like I was still answering like
the listener mail and you have to take the screenshot
and you have to like get it on YouTube, and
get it and all these different platforms have different specificities,
(23:47):
and you know, to younger listeners, I just want you
to know we had to run a code. We had
to like run a code to get stuff up on
certain platforms. This is how old some of this was.
So that was it for until twenty sixteen. That's when
Kristen and Caroline left the podcast, and that is when
(24:11):
I got asked to host it. And at the time
I had been on Savor. That was my first host
gig for a year. I think like maybe a couple months.
But it was within like I because we started on
sav Our March and they left in November. So I
(24:33):
was really nervous about it and I turned it down.
I'm so nervous because it's like a it was the
show I cared about and I thought was really really important,
and I wasn't sure. And I think that that's one
of the things we've talked about before on the show
is sometimes when when you're afraid of not being the
(24:57):
perfect feminist right, don't do it at all, which is
not the good right thing. But I was like, oh,
I was going to make all these mistakes and what
do I have to say in all of this, But yeah,
I did. I did all kinds of things, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So you waited a bit before you started hosting.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, I never. I never thought about hosting. I wanted to.
I don't know, I wanted to. I wanted to make
documentaries at the time, and I just never considered myself
as a host. And if it wasn't for Lauren over
on Savor, a friend of ours and coworker, she was
(25:41):
the one who asked me, I never would have considered
doing it, just because it It's so interesting to me
how many people in podcasting will tell you they have
performance anxiety or are nervous about people hearing them. Even
though I do like things like acting, I still get
(26:02):
really anxious, and there's kind of a self confidence issue
as well. I was like, oh, no, I could never
do that. No. Wait, But the timing worked because that
was when we moved. We switched from Final Cut to Adobe,
and so I was having to learn a whole new
(26:22):
system and I really didn't like it. And I also
was like coming to terms with the fact that I
do have a hearing problem. And so I got called
at the office once and they asked me like, did
you hear this, and they were like playing back an
example of something I edited and I didn't hear it,
(26:44):
and it became much more of a visual thing because
if you look at the waveforms, you can kind of
see the audio, but if it's really quiet, sometimes you
can't even see that. So it was an odd feeling
of being the person who like trained new hires to
edit to being the person who is like, someone's going
to have to teach me this. And you know, I
(27:06):
wasn't opposed to it, but when Lauren asked me, like, hey,
do you want to try this? And I thought, you know,
if it gets me out of learning this system, I know,
I just made a whole deal about keep learning things.
But it was mostly because I had so much anxiety
about the hearing after that happened. I was, I was
(27:29):
really anxious that, oh, I can't even do this job anymore.
And I'm sure it would have been fine, but I
was I was dealing with too which anxiety is the
worst performing or not being able to hear and do
your job. Yeah, And then you know, I've always I've
(27:55):
said before the podcaster's prayer is don't judge me by
by fifty. My first fifty episodes and I had to
edit the first ones of Savor and I don't look
back on that fondly, but it's just been it's been
a lot of growth and now I now it doesn't
(28:18):
seem so laughable as it did to me at the time, like,
oh I would be a host, that's and you know
what's funny is I can be really oblivious sometimes. But
our like Top Boss, we were at a party and
he asked me about what the future of Sminty should
(28:40):
be right after Kristen Caroline left and after Emily left,
and I just said, you know, well, I hope it
keeps going because I think it's important. And I never
realized that at the time he was thinking like could
she be the next host? It never crossed my mind, thing, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So do you remember your first episode as a host?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I do. It was called am I a bad Feminist?
And it was you know, an o to ruck then
Gay's work, obviously, but it was just me talking about
some of my anxieties on becoming the host. And I
remember very clearly, like talking about how I would go
(29:28):
back and forth about things that I thought, like I
used to bring in cookies all the time to the office,
and then I got in my head about like, oh
am I being like a stereotype and my plans? What
am I doing? And what does that say that I
was overthinking bringing in cookies to the office as a woman.
(29:49):
It was just kind of a discussion about that and
how those were some of the thoughts that were whole
me back, but also some of the things that I
wanted to to talk about. And Bridget was great. Bridget
was a great person to do an episode like that with.
(30:13):
We did do a practice episode before. Yes, it was
on The Final Girl, Yes, and I think that was
our second episode, but we did it twice. We did
it once. It's a practice and we had like a
vocal coach and everything.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah. But you know, when you come on as a
new host, as you know, Samantha, you kind of have
to have an introductory like here's who I am and
here's why I'm here.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Episode yeah, and you kind of already had on it.
But when you are you're obviously an overthinker, as you were.
First episode was kind of you being an overthinker. What
would you tell yourself from that episode to where we
are today, What would you tell your your younger self
in this hosting journey.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I would tell her. I would tell her to read more.
I would tell her to learn more. I feel like
a lot of the mishaps I had in my early
days was because I didn't know maybe some aspect of
a conversation or how something I said might sound, which
(31:28):
again shouldn't stop you from learning, like don't let that
make you freeze up or clam up. But uh, it
was over It was overwhelming in the beginning to think
of all of the books I should have read already
and hadn't. So I would say, don't let to young Annie,
(31:51):
It's okay, you don't know something, go learn about it.
And I also would say, and you know, I'm still
working on this. You do have a voice, and you
can't speak up, you can't interrupt, because I would get
so concerned that everybody knew more than I did. So
(32:13):
I'm like, whilst they're saying that, then oh that must
be right. What do I know? And that's not good
for the host of a show.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
The hard one to learn when you're not used to
doing that.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, and especially Bridget is so like I find her
so like inspiring, and she's so smart, and she's older
than me, and she's like been in the that world
more than I had, Like I'd been in the podcasting
part of it, but she'd been out like doing stuff,
(32:52):
and so a lot of times I feel like she
would kind of try to help me and I'd be like,
uh no, you know what you're talking about. And last
it was about Star Wars, and then she was like, go,
you have this one. But we were also like a
new podcasting duo, so that can take some time to
(33:16):
learn the how you do the outlines and how you
interact with each other. I don't know. There's a lot
of things. I guess stop trying to please everybody and
stop trying to be like the past host because you're
not them, right, Yeah, because nobody's happy at that point.
I think those are some of the big things that
(33:37):
I would tell my younger self when she first started.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
It's a good one, some good things. I feel like
you're still telling yourself these things though.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, it's a slow learning process, but it is a process.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So what is something that you look back on and
that has given you pride in this work?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Hmm. I think it's it's a couple of things I do.
I've learned a lot I personally have learned a lot,
and I feel like I've grown a lot, and whether
that is through my professional work and what I do,
(34:26):
the confidence and what I do, just the books we
read and the topics we cover and hearing from listeners,
hearing from listeners and having listeners connect with what we
have talked about. I am proud of the book. As
stressful as the process was, and as much as I
(34:47):
like knowing what I know now might do things differently,
I was proud of that. And I'm proud of you, Samantha.
I'm working with you and that we have that conversation
so many years ago, and here we are. Here we are, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Me and my gravelly self. Here we are as a
dynamic duo.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yes, we support each other. When your voice is gone,
I'll just talk a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Please I need to do. And with that, how much
have you seen change since you started Sminty to today's Well,
good question.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I know, yeah, it is technologically a lot. Uh. I mean,
I wish I could show you this code. Maybe I'll
send it to you, Samantha. It was wild what we
had to do to get stuff published, and it had
very like you're entering code. I'm not talking about like
(35:50):
you press enter, you have to do the like specific
parameters as the person trying to upload. It was a
wild time. Uh. And then I think just the way
we record now is very different. Obviously because the pandemic,
we're doing it from home. But even so, I think
(36:10):
that's changed quite a bit. Some of the rules that
I'm used to that I still uphold no one else
does anymore. In terms of the show itself, We've discussed
this before, but it has changed from something that was
what we call evergreen topics like why do women shay?
(36:34):
Or whatever? It is too much more varied topics, but
also news, a lot more news, a lot more politics,
kind of a more viewpoint when it comes to that.
And don't get me wrong, the past host same way,
they felt the same way. It's just the topic has
kind of the topics have kind of shifted more of
(36:58):
that direction. I once a bunch of those evergreen topics
get used up, and it makes sense, but it also
makes it kind of harder to bring back classics actually,
because the world has changed so much since a lot
of these conversations have happened. And sometimes randomly a listener
(37:18):
will write in about an episode that came out in
twenty twelve or something, and they're like, this, the weird
take is terrible, blah blah blah. I'm like, that came
out in twenty twelve, my friends, right, and I'm not
the host. I wasn't the host then, But also things
have changed since that time.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's also weird when yeah, we get accusations about or
like even like redos, like people will repost old posts,
old episodes, and then people could try to confind it
and they're like, maybe that was like thousands of episodes ago.
Good luck.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, yeah, And I also we used to do that.
We would put all of our the links to our
research and the episode descriptions, and then because of all
of these moving pieces, basically the platforms we used to
(38:15):
upload things, it became harder and harder. So we stopped
doing that, and I wish we still did it, but
we try to keep them in our outline so if
you do want one, we can send it to you.
Some of them are pages long, so some of our
like just resources, pages and pages and pages. I don't
even want to think about my Princess Leiah outline. But
(38:38):
sometimes we'll get a listener and they'll ask for a
source on an episode from like Bridget's time, and I
don't know. I don't have access to that because we've
gone through many hosts and the way that we have
our outlines and the like permissions and things that it works,
how it works. I can't get you that information. I
(39:01):
would love to, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Right the way everybody did it was different too.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, we really didn't have a standard system.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Still don't panically.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Not really, but you and I know what you and
I and we specifically are doing.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
But outside of that, Yeah, So do you remember our
first episode we kind of already talked about this, yes,
the title are We Failures? How did you feel about
that episode?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
I remember, I remember enjoying it, like I thought it
was a good conversation. It was the start of our
like Trauma mini series and we were starting with again
kind of your intro of even though we didn't know
you were going to be full time at the time
of You know, we haven't met these goalpost yet. We
haven't met these things that people told us we should
have done already. And it is fascinating to look back
(39:57):
on now because I think like our perspectives have changed
since then, and you know, especially like speaking for myself,
I'm like, nah, forget those Goldfos girls.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Part of that was we couldn't get to those points,
you know what I mean, Like yeah, whether it was financially,
whether it was like emotionally, whether any of those things. Yeah,
we couldn't get to there. So it felt like we
were failing. Now we could possibly get to there, like
it's possible, we just don't want.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
To, yeah, And I think that makes all the difference.
Like yeah, but because at the time I did think
I was a failure because I hadn't done those things,
or at least a part of me did, because you
kind of reminded of it pretty consistently in society as
a woman, as a single woman especially, and so even
(40:52):
though I might not agree with it, might not actually
want it, I did feel it, whereas now I'm much
more actually I am good. And you know, at the time,
I hadn't come out as ACE yet, so I didn't
know so I those episodes, Yeah, I hadn't worked through
(41:16):
that yet. So it's it's a time capsule for sure.
But I think that the conversation is still relevant. I
think people feel that way, and there are certainly some
times where I still struggle with that feeling, but nowhere
near it as much as I did back then.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I feel like everything changed with the pandemic too. Yeah
it I'll go up without the window times to still
like it doesn't matter anymore. Yeah, yeah, pretty much, and
probably with like the state of the world honestly in general.
I mean, I think we've already answered the question, but
looking back, like we realized, I mean, we knew it
then it just felt like the pressures, but we knew
(41:54):
we weren't failures then. But it feels like more honest now.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, it does. And I do agree with you. The
pandemic and the world's events really changed a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I think that was a shift too when we started
getting TikTok, because it was during that point in time
two that was coming about, and it shifted from the
Instagram world where everything was perfect and you were competing
with everybody's like, oh, just look at what I'm doing,
how cool I am? And then TikTok all of a
sudden shifted that and be like, no, that's not real,
that's not honest. This is a real life, and we
(42:34):
all started realizing, oh, we're kind of in the same place,
whether it's we're all struggling because of this or we're
all changing because of this. But in like the Instagram days,
it was the perfect food picture, it was a perfect
travel picture, it was a perfect family pictures and somehow,
and not to say that TikTok is great, but that's
kind of shifted that narrative. And so millennials were real
(42:56):
honest about like, no, parenting is not great. If you
don't want it, don't do it. Like it was that
level that it started shifting away, and I feel like
we all came to be very again. And I think
something I had to do with the COVID because people
were showing more real life stuff of them struggling because
of COVID, more real life as struggling because of the administration,
Like that became more nuanced in that like, oh, we
(43:20):
these are catered to a specific idea, and because of
everything breaking loose and how the format was changing, we understood, oh,
there is no standard anymore, it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I went to the grocery store
yesterday without alebrawn. I never would have done that before, never,
But not like what who cares? Who cares?
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Well? With that how do you think we've grown since
then or have we have we just become more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I think we have grown. I mean, as I said,
when you get a new host and just a new dynamic,
there's a learning curve right there. And you know, we
had had meetings before then, and I think we had
a good rapport, so it wasn't like a shock or
anything like that. But it's just kind of learning the
(44:17):
new process, especially for you because you had never podcasted before.
So in the early days we recorded, we would research together,
and I think that helped. I think it also helped
that we we had kind of a it was a
mini series at that point, so we had structured like
(44:37):
where it was going to go. And then I think
when you came on full time, that's when I feel
like there was a more bigger learning curve actually, just
because we didn't have like a we didn't have a
structure anymore. The Trauma mini series was over, and so
we had to figure out what our dynamic it's going
(45:00):
to be without that, and and just how the research
process would work if we weren't researching together, like physically together.
I feel like we've worked. We still we do kind
of a hybrid. We do some episodes you research completely,
some my research completely, and some we like double tag team. Yeah,
(45:24):
but I feel like we've gotten to a better place
and especially like knowing who like who can tackle which topic.
Sometimes we mix that up, but you know, we've got
all We've got a variety of stuff we talk about here.
We do.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
I think one of the ways that we were able
to acclimate better, honestly is when everything changed for everyone.
So it almost was like scrapping everything.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Then.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
It wasn't just because a new host came on. It
was because we were working from home. We were doing
from two episodes to five, Like it went from like
jump Jump ju Jump, and we were like, okay, literally,
it's like almost planning a brand new show with the
same things. Yeah, And it was interesting to like look
(46:16):
at it and then like we were trying to bring
hope and what seems like, I mean, we've talked about
this before with the listeners and the audience, like before,
like because our topic, and we even talked about it
as we are planning to do future episodes with sponsors
that want uplifting I would assume uplifting happy topics and
(46:37):
we're like with the world as it is, and the
attacks that we see is hard to be constantly. It's
hard to find the bright light sometimes the good good
points because it feels like it's a constant attack that
we need to be aware of. But like I feel like,
especially again with the pandemic and with how COVID went
(46:57):
and with how the administration was going at the time, time,
we were like, Okay, we have to bring hope in
this very bleak theme that we have, because not because
we're making it bleak, but because the way it is
being treated. Intersexual feminism, feminism in general, any kind of
equity and equality when it comes to diversity, marginalized communities,
it's hard to make it hopeful because the rest of
(47:22):
the world has kind of shifted in seeing that as
not you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, yeah, Being on a show like this one is
it does involve a lot of change because the news
is changing and because intersectional feminism touches everything, and so
(47:52):
it's difficult to balance. We don't want to ignore a topic,
but also we do want to bring that hope, and
even even in the dark episodes, we try to bring that.
But it can feel like a concern of people are said, well,
(48:15):
you're not talking about this where you're not doing this
or any kind of thing like that. And I can
feel it like personally myself, but it's it is something
we consider and it's it's something that does change with
(48:37):
the times.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
We really had to try to figure out how to
balance all of that. It was really interesting because past
his host Caroline, we've talked about She and I have
talked about her past work and you know how it
affected her, and she talked about how one of the
things that she was so excited about when she left,
specifically this type of topic, is that she didn't have
(48:58):
to be as plugged in, Like not that she didn't,
not that she's just not aware, and not that she's
not like understanding the depth of it, but being constantly
aware of all of the like being on top of
all of the news, and most of the news is
not good and most of the news feels like it's
just fighting constantly and bad news. Like being able to
unplug from that for a minute, she was like, Oh
(49:19):
my god, I'm a whole different person, and like knowing
what we do, we're constantly like I'm constantly being fed
information about all the dark stuff and all the gross stuff,
and we're talking there just like deaths and like you know,
sexual harassment, like right now, that's all of our media
and we're like realizing having to try to balance that
(49:42):
with good mental health so we can keep going. That's
been a learning curve in itself.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, and once again one that we've been attempting since
the beginning, because when we did our Trauma mini series
when you first started, at the end of every episode,
we had kind of a what are you doing to
take care of yourself? What are you doing? And every
guest we have that's like involved in activism, we ask
(50:13):
them and almost every one of them doesn't have a
great answer. Sometimes people come in with a great answer,
usually though they're like, I'm not good at it.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
That's the hardest question for them.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Typically Yes, So I think it's fair. We're all we're
all still earning that. And in some days, what I'm
trying to tell myself is some days I have a
really good day. Yesterday it was a really good day
for me. Some days I have a really bad day
and I'm not good at the self care part. But
some days I have a really good day, And so
(50:45):
I'm gonna I'm trying to make those days more often
beside but celebrating when it's there. I was so happy,
I can't even tell you how happy.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Was amazing and maybe a cat come in your way.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
What some advice you'd give to upcoming podcasters? As podcasting
kind of already changed, but some advice you would give
to them those who are still seeking to do this.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
I would love to hear from new podcasters who have
found success. My big advice has always been, don't find
your idea, be clear on your voice, think about your audience,
who you want your audience to be. Don't try to
(51:43):
make something everyone will like. I think that there's a
chance everyone will like it, but don't keep Don't have
that be the thing like I said when I first
started and I was just completely flat because I wanted
everyone to like me. I would put a lot of
(52:05):
thought into that. And that's not to say it won't
change or can't change, but having that is sort of
your compass of this is how we're going to do
the episodes. I do think it's useful too do a
practice like bridget nine did or something like that. If
(52:27):
you're going with the co host from the last statistics
I read, Traditionally, co hosted shows are more successful, but
double check on that. But if you are going with
co host doing those tests and having those conversations and
planning it out, and then you know, if you don't know,
kind of learning the ins and outs of publishing, podcasting,
(52:54):
of editing, like who's going to do who's going to edit?
Is that? Are you going to get to the moment
where you and your friend want to publish it and
then you don't know who's going to edit it? Uh,
maybe you have a bigger team than that. I don't know.
But just knowing those roles who's going to do what,
and preparing yourself for criticism and let it unless it's constructive,
(53:23):
let it slide off your back. Do not let that
get to you. So I promise you it will breaking down.
It is a real, real learning curve. I mean, the
things I have heard about myself unnecessarily do unnecessary I
(53:45):
don't need. I don't need that, So preparing for that
and it's that's okay. Unfortunately that's well, it's not okay.
But unfortunately that's the internet like landscape we live in.
So it's gonna happen, especially depending on the topic.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
True, it's true, Oh, gosh, well, I was gonna say,
let's let's talk about the future. You love a good prediction.
I loved what do you think is the future of
podcasting and specifically our show.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Oh No, once again the pandemic burned me on this,
so we did our prediction episode in twenty twenty never again.
That will never be a classic. I will never listen
to it. It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Now they're gonna be people going to try to go
find it.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Don't do it, listeners, It's gonna make you sad. We
were very because you were so whole. Don't do it. Well,
I kind of I'm not sure about the future of
podcasting because just today I had a thought. But where
(55:02):
I was watching, I still get ads somehow. I'm like
one of the few people I know that I as
an AD came up and it was a video podcast
ad and I was like, wow, now this has gotten
so far. It's a commercial, It's made it all the
(55:23):
way here. So there's a part of me which we've
discussed before. And I actually have a really funny memory
of being in New Orleans and we were at a
bar and me and Lauren and Dylan who was Dylan
used to produce Spinty and they had an SNL on
(55:45):
in the back and it was a sketch about the potties,
which was like the Podcasting Awards, and they were making
fun of how many podcasts there are. And that was
years ago, twenty eighteen, and just this explosive growth of podcasts.
I don't know if that's like, I don't think it's sustainable.
(56:08):
I don't know if it's going to burst. I'm not
sure they're very popular. I don't think they're going to
go away, but I'm not sure if there's going to
be kind of a diminishing or if you'll just keep
going and going, and who knows, who knows. For our
(56:30):
podcast specifically, I think that we're going to keep doing
what we're doing. I think we've been doing a really
good job on interviews and just the wide range of
(56:50):
topics we cover, and potentially there will be some travel involved.
The world feels very uncertain right now, so I don't
think seems to be.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Able to stand still. But yeah, yeah, we'd like to
get to that point. And with that, I was thinking,
because I know we have some of the best listeners
and supporters, one we would love to hear from y'all
about what you would like to see a little more of,
a little less of all those things, because we love
good suggestions. But maybe Annie, do you think can you
(57:27):
think of things that the listener, how the listener could
support us as well? Maybe?
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Well, listeners, we love you. We would not be here
without you. And I just want to say I want
to apologize first, because if you've been listening to this show,
you know I kind of went into a deep depression
(57:52):
in November. I went into a deep depression in November,
and then in January I became hyper fixated. And I
am coming out of it. But the listener mail, I
have been not answering as well as I normally do,
(58:15):
but I have plans to start doing it again. This
is why yesterday it was so exciting when I was
like doing a very basic thing, like you can care
of myself. I feel like I'm coming out. I like
what was seeing the light for the first time. Yeah,
But anyway, please keep writing in. Don't stop just because
(58:36):
I haven't, or none neither of us have responded. Don't
stop doing that. We love hearing from you. We love
hearing your thoughts and what you want to hear. Even
if it's just like, hey, I feel the same way,
because it's sometimes this does feel like you're screening in
to avoid and no once hearing it. So we love
(58:57):
hearing from you. We are so we would not be
here if you were not listening to this, So thank
you for keeping up listening and downloading all of that stuff.
If you would like. We do have a book you
could support us that way, And we do have some
merchandise at Cotton Bureau and it's it looks pretty good,
(59:20):
so you can check that out.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
I ordered a few things. I got a cute, very
soft T shirt.
Speaker 2 (59:25):
Yeah, yeah, I really like it. They're not technically a sponsor,
I guess, but no, our merchandise is there, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:32):
You know, getting to know our name, yeah, and anything
with like future events also one of the things that
I'm thinking, like, we have so many, so many amazing guests.
So if y'all can help spread the word, especially when
we're doing some of these amazing interviews and they take
the time to come and talk to us, we love
when you do that because I know I definitely get
(59:53):
a lot of notices on social media showing that y'all
are reposting or liking and we did not respond because
I have become real bad about social media. I hate
it with a passion so much, especially because I feel
like I'm going to say the wrong things, do the
wrong things, or you know, all the maybe not enough things.
So I definitely just avoid it altogether. But I see
(01:00:15):
y'all have tagged us when we're on your Spotify top
podcast listeners. All of that that warms our heart. We
do see it. Keep letting us know, even though we
sell like the bad friend who is stucking depress us
where we just look at the message and move on,
we do read them. It just might take us a
minute to get back to you, but it is so
(01:00:36):
encouraging to see. And also letting us know what you
do and don't like that really does help, especially like
I said, like Ay said, constructive criticism really helps us
and helps shape these episodes help shape what we do
and we're trying. I can't say the like used to
throw the word around of relevant, trying to make relevant
(01:00:57):
content and relevant things we still want to know because
it's just the two of us sometimes so we get
into our own little holes. So having more perspective is
so helpful.
Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Yes, it absolutely is so thank you. I really wouldn't
be here without you, and we do love hearing from you.
I love a lot of game recommendations we've gotten. Yes,
that was very much appreciated, topic suggestions, and just some
people write in like I connect to this and here's
my experience, and thank you for taking that time and
(01:01:34):
for being here. Well, I hope you enjoyed that walkdown
memory lane. And I feel like I was just reliving.
Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
My past so much.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Man, many twenty ten, that's when I.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Start talking about all the snacks.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Oh, I don't think you actually did that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
No, in my the past episodes. I mean like I
was listening to the past episodes because I was like
going back, and I was like, I really was obsessed
with our.
Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Snacks they had. We had good snacks.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
It was good snacks, and they had our lunches and
breakfast once a week and I would go in just
for that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Yes, man, our new office does not have good snacks.
There's many reasons we don't go into the new office, and.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
That is one.
Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
That is one didn't have enough water either. Anyway, I
hope B isn't listening to this one. Yeah, that's that's
the message. That's the message. Tell us what your office
situation is. Listeners if you have one, you can email
us at Hello, at stuff Whenever Told You dot Com.
You can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
(01:02:40):
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff one Never Told You.
We might not answer, but the message will be read
it maybe one day answered. Yes, very much appreciated. You
can also find us on YouTube. And yes we do
have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau. And yes we do
have a book you can get where you get your books.
Thanks as always too, our super Christine, our executor priser
My and our contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Thank you, We love you, Yes, we.
Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Love all of them, and thanks to you for listening.
Steffan Never Told You is production by Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or if you listened
to the favorite shows
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