August 5, 2026 • 30 mins
According to legend, witches could transform into cats during August but not without risk. Anney and Samantha delve into the history of the connection between women, cats and witches, and the lore surrounding cat nights.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff Whenever.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Told you production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to one of
our first episodes of August. Happy August. It is storming
right now, so if you hear some rain sounds or
(00:30):
some thunder, it's ambience and it actually fits for this episode.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Oh, we need to go ahead and start adding that
in just kidd out, just kidding.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
So every August we have this problem and wherein we
like try to look up what is August, like what
is the national months of x y Z because we're
coming off Pride and disability Pride and every August. Every
year I go through this and there's some things but
nothing major. It reminds me of being a kid. And
(01:04):
I used to like that My birthday was in August
because there were no holidays in August, so it was
like a little celebration.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah I could have. But the funny thing.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Is that every year I come across this particular topic,
cat nights, and every year I tell myself it's not
enough to talk about. But I decided this year, no,
I really want to talk about cat nights and speaking up.
Before we get into it, I have an update about
(01:37):
my neighborhood cat. So listeners you should know, if you've
listened for a while, there's this cat that lives in
my neighborhood, beautiful cat named Blue, and he was recently
hit by a car. He's fine, but basically our apartment
has adopted him and rehabilitated him, and he's great. Like
(01:59):
you wouldn't know other than the loss of title, you
wouldn't know anything happened to him. He's full of energy
and he's a very chaos cat, very mischievous. But recently
he did kind of become my cat because I was
the only person I'm pretty sure in the apartment over
(02:19):
the Fourth of July weekend, and so the cat was
my cat and we were buzz and he was chaotic.
My apartment has a lot of things that a cat
would like to knock over, so we had to negotiate that.
There was a lot of me being like, no, please,
don't do that. But we had a grand old time
(02:42):
and then he moved on. Now he's hanging out with
other people, but for that one weekend it was yours.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
It was and he jump scared me a lot. Oh
my goodness, I could only imagine he'd pop out from
like under.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
That is your aw because cats love pouncling, so I can't. Yeah,
you know what, I wish you had a camera in
the house just for that, just for those moments.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
To be honest, it was a lot of a lot
of excitement, a lot of startled yelps. But I'm okay,
I'm okay, Cat's okay, and I'm okay. So I'm I'm
really excited to talk about this. I have never heard
of cat nights before, have you?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
No, I'm very intrigued you I've heard of cat cafes.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
No, that's not what we will be touching on, but
I bet they do celebrate cat nights. So we're talking
about cats and witches today primarily, And this is going
to be a shorter one because, as I said, every year,
I've been like, I'm not sure there's enough information when
I stumble across this, because we're talking about a legend
(03:54):
in folklore and there just aren't a lot of primary sources,
as in, every reference is to a quote vague legend
or an obscure legend, but you can't find what they're referencing,
or whatever they got it from is lost or it
didn't exist in the first place, there are like a
couple that I would say lend themselves to There were
(04:18):
some historical reasoning that this became a legend, but this
is often the case with stories like cat nights. But
I am someone who still finds this stuff interesting. I
used to run into this on Saver all the time,
because you find a legend and it's so fascinating, but
you can't find anything to back it up at all,
(04:38):
like even that it was a legend until recently. So
you have to keep that stuff in mind. And that's
my disclaimer at the top, is that these vague origin
stories sometimes everybody just agreed that they happen because they
found it in another source, but they're all relying on
each other, and there's nothing that indicates that it wasn't
(05:02):
invented far later. I do, as I said, think there
are a couple couple of instances that suggest that it
was actually an older legend, but we'll get into those
also for a sadder disclaimer, As with all of these
as ridiculous as it sounds now, people accused of witchcraft
died a lot of people, many of them women or
(05:25):
otherwise marginalized people, and sometimes owning a cat was enough
to draw suspicion. During the height of the witch hunts
in Europe and America, in some cases the cat was blamed.
So while this is fun in terms of a legend,
it's important to keep in mind the reality of these
witch hunts and reading through some of the trials for this,
(05:49):
I was once again infuriated by how many were not
only punishing a woman for existing outside of patriarchal white
Christian norms, but how often it was used by men
as a punishment, like.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
So they went after the cat, like of which when
they went after it, well, the goat.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
It turned out to be the thing.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
But like like that thing that they are demon that
the cat is a demon or the demon.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Oh well, there's a famous account of a cat cat faith,
which is thought to be a play on Satan.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Who named it the people that I don't know, actually
Sir Sathan died.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
There are three women who were implicated in their quote
crimes with the cats. One of them did was executed,
oh lord, but I think the other two weren't. I'm
not sure about the cat, but yeah, I should say
the cat, I should say. Before we get into this,
we are going to talk about some violence against cats
because they.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Did for pursuing the friendly episode witchcrafts.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Well, yeah, so is there a horror movie based on this?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Have you found it? I don't know. I haven't found it.
Oh I should have known. You'd have already talked about
it I had it been there, but I would have
mentioned it.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I do have a fun cultural note at the end,
and I believe it's actually fun. That's not the way
I sometimes find things fun that you find like horrifying.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Okay, okay, good to know.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yes, yes, So, yeah, as I was saying when I
was going back over some of these cases.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And the witch trials, at least at least.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
A handful of them were just men wanting someone to
kill their wife, maybe because she got pregnant and they
didn't want to take care of the child, or she
was too successful or things like that.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So it was it was really upsetting and infuriating. So
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I guess every time I talk about this it feels distance,
but I don't think we should dismiss the damage that
it did, right, Yes, okay, So with all of that
out of the way, Yeah, let's talk about cats and witches,
because today we were talking about cat Knights, which is
an Irish legend that starts on August seventeenth every year,
(08:19):
so Cat Knights starts on August seventeenth. Now, before we
get into the details of cat Knights, just a reminder
that Kristen and Caroline old host of the show, did
an episode on the Crazy Cat Lady trope that we're
going to bring back as a classic because some of
that touches on what we're discussing here. But they did
(08:40):
a whole episode, so you can check that out. As
I'm sure most of you are familiar, we have a
long history of associating cats with witches and with women
in general, and this is something I've been trying to
do an episode on for a long time too, is
the gingerzation of pets and cats are always yes, feminine, yes, us.
(09:00):
We're going to talk a little bit about that, but
that's probably a bigger topic for a separate episode and
speaking of a lot of scholars have published in depth
histories about why this is, but for our purposes today,
we're just going to do a brief overview. Cats have
not always had the association with nefarious witches or spinsters.
(09:21):
Ancient Egyptians worshiped them, and killing one was a punishable
crime an ancient Egypt, and they kept cats as pets
they mourned when they died. According to PBS, they would
shave their eyebrows to display respect for a lost cat.
This is in part due to the goddess Bastet, the
(09:42):
goddess of women's fertility, sexuality, and motherhood, who had the
body of a human woman and the head of a cat,
at least in the primary depictions of her.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Hecate, the mythological Greek goddess of magic, witchcraft, sorcery, and
the moon, had a pet cat, but she also had
a cat as a familiar, which in European legend is
a supernatural creature that helps witches. There's a lot of.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Other goddesses that have affiliations with cats, too, including Norse
mythologies Freya, so that association has been there for a
long time. This is also the early beginnings of why
cats are associated with femininity. This would later be weaponized
during the suffrage movement with depictions of women as kittens
(10:29):
crying and the rise of the word catem Later in
the nineteen seventies, cats were used as symbols against the
queer community and leaning hard into the crazy cat lady stereotype.
They were used as that basically mean unmarried women aka lesbians.
So even a few feminist groups worried that lesbians were
(10:51):
a threat to feminism and they would use this kind
of crazy cat lady cat symbology. When you think of
the stereotypical characatures of witches, they're ugly, they're old, they're undesirable,
they hate men, which was what some of these detractors
wanted to equate feminists too, and certain feminist movements wanted
to distance themselves from the messaging was that these women
(11:16):
were lonely, they did have a man, and so they
needed a cat. In response, a lot of second wave
feminists in the queer community adopted the cat as a
sword of mascot and fear around the childless cat lady
is still a thing.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Vice President JD. Evince is worried about it.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
The interesting thing is that a few of the women
he criticized for being childless cat ladies are not childless
and they didn't have cats, just as feminists celebrate the
term cat lady regardless of if you have cats, which
showcases the weight of its history and what it represents,
because you're not being literal in that sense, you're saying
(11:56):
that it has a meaning beyond literal. I think, in
the most oversimplifying terms, it's a woman who doesn't need
a man. She might want one, but she doesn't need one,
and is independent, pushing against and threatening patriarchal norms, and
apparently it's a whole thing to be like, I'll just
take the cat, no man, thanks. I thought it was
(12:21):
a social media trend. I don't know, let me know.
Listeners on the other hand, though, sexualized catwoman, as in
like batman, So you've also got that going on here.
So women are either hyper sexualized or desexualized in this
kind of cat lady catwoman trope.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
All right, but I've jumped way ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
During the Middle Ages, cats were prized by those looking
to keep their stores of grain rat free. In fact,
according to a few sources, people would pay quite a
bit for a cat, like equal to a sheep or goat.
They were popular in monasteries, often the only animal allowed inside,
but this drastically changed in Europe by the sixteenth century,
(13:22):
when cats were associated with paganism, which is an even
the devil. Historians point to the extermination of pagan traditions
in Europe and the rise of Christianity with the turn
of the cat's reputation for the worse. And so the
sixteenth century is when it kind of reached its head,
but it had there had been like seeds of it
(13:43):
going on before them. The Church viewed paganism as competition
and targeted witches and all connected to them to destroy
that competition. Pagans were known for deep respect for nature
and animals, so a bond within the animal became suspects
under Christian authority, and people started to believe that cats
(14:06):
were messengers utilized by witches and indicated a curse one
they might pay the Church to get removed, and or
witches themselves transformed to move through society without drawing attention.
So that's sort of where the whole you don't want
to cross paths with the black cat thing comes from,
(14:26):
is that if you saw a cat at this time,
you might think it's a witch trying to place a
curse on you.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Turn the other way, turned the other way. Not like
the matrix.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
It's no, but I do find that interesting. I thought
about that as well.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Cats were also seen as too independent and disrespectful, as
if they didn't care about the rules of the church,
and they did not love men as effusively as men
would like just as the woman who kept them. Wow,
I mean, I'm joking, but this really was like a
(15:09):
people thought this the cat's too independent.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I don't like it, and I'm kind of laughing about it.
But there were serious consequences to all of this.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Francis Simpson's nineteen oh three work The Book of the
Cat has this quote. It was believed that the devil
borrowed the coat of a black cat when he wished
to torment his victims, and this belief led to black
cats being chased, hunted, tortured, and even burned alive alongside witches,
and a superstition that lasted this day around black cats
(15:44):
and bad luck.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Nang.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I just I assume my animal would be like, if
I had to be represented as an animal, it would
be a cat, because I'm a little moody, a little
bit rebellious. Uh huh, Like I want to cuddle, but
if you want me to cuddle, I'll probably be like, no,
don't touch me.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Right, Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Although like because of that demeanor, I don't always gravitate
towards cats those same reasons, even though it could be
described for me. Maybe it's just, you know, self hatred
in a different way.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Cats. I don't hate cats. I love cats, y'all. I
like cats. I feel like you're digging yourself. It's hard.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I will say, my niece has a very viral cat,
and this little dirty one is super cute.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And just to clarify, you mean viral social media? Yes, sorry, okay,
I mean I don't know what the people would think.
I just wanted to make sure that we're on the
same page. We're talking about witchcraft and witches.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
I'm working on being clearer in my Okay, Okay, you're right,
we shouldn't assume. I just can't imagine what going viral
would mean in another context.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, let's not think about it, okay, Okay, moving on. Yes, Yes,
in his work are cats and all about them. Harrison
Weir adds another possible explanation for the superstition around black cats. Quote,
A very remarkable peculiarity of the domestic cat is the
extraordinary property which its fur possesses of yielding electric sparks
(17:27):
when hand rubbed or by other friction the black and
a larger degree than any other color. Even the rapid
motion of a fast retreating cat through rough tangled underwood
having been known to produce a luminous effect in frosty weather,
it is the more noticeable the coldness of the weather,
apparently giving intensity and brilliancy, which to the ignorant would
(17:48):
certainly be attributed to the interference of the spiritual or superhuman. Plus,
he also goes on to add the nocturnalize that seemed
to glow in.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
The night, so sunder dog's eyes, and wolves and coyotes,
most animals, deer do wow.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
The black cats though its associated with which is therefore
it's more suspects.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
That's even worse goat size, and also possums and raccoons.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeahs, anyway, keep going, you do you okay?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
It's also possible that because cats could black cats particularly
could blend in better at night, they were better at
catching mice, which would have been something pagans would have
gone for or like anybody, but I was reading an
article that was like, pagans were always practical, so this
would have made sense to them.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So that's true.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
The connection between black cats and whiches would solidify.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
In that way. Yeah. Also, I just like the sin
as pagans were more practical.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, they are more about you know, nature, understanding nature,
which makes sense.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Recent research suggest that cats may have a preference for
women just because they are more likely to interact with them,
feed them, and take care of them. So that kind
of goes into not only this association with witches, but
also the crazy cat lady trip. Yeah, there's actually been
a lot of research about that lately, so maybe time
(19:22):
for a revisit. Reminder, the church at the time was
incentivized to have women married, both because of religious purposes,
but also because the church didn't want to care for
children born outside of wedlock, which was kind of what
would happen at the time. Simultaneously, governments wanted more capital,
(19:45):
children as labors, children as future soldiers, so women living
outside of that represented a threat And just another fact
before we move on. Cats were sometimes blamed for the
spread of the bubonic plague during Middle Ages and were
killed for it. However, historians nowadays suspected this actually exacerbated
(20:08):
the spread of it because the cats were great at
hunting rats, right that were actually spreading the disease, so yeah,
not good. Also, if you want another interesting fact about
the bubonic plague, check out the Sabers episode on Lemonade,
because something really interesting happened in Paris with Lemonadely yes, yes, yes, yes, Oh,
(20:36):
and I should say black cats are lucky in some
cultures like Japan, so yeah, they're not always that luck.
That finally brings us two cat Knights, the Irish legend
of cat Knights, which starts on August seventeenth and runs
to the twenty sixth, although some places I was looking
(20:58):
at said it ends on seventeen. It's meant to be
sort of a transition period from the dog days of
summer as we move towards fall in the Northern Hemisphere.
At least according to more modern sources. There are a
couple of variants of this legend that we're going to
go through, but at the heart of most of them
(21:18):
is the idea that during this time, which is can
transform into a cat and back eight times, but on
the ninth time, the transformation sticks in their cat forever
and they meow and yell loudly during the month, And
this is allegedly where we get the saying cats have
nine lives now. Obviously, the vagueness of this legend leaves
(21:43):
a lot of questions. Ye does the count reset outside
of this timeframe? If I transform eight times but I
don't do it the ninth, do I get.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
To do it again the next year? Right? I don't
know can answer question? Well, Dane, what's the point of
this then?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
The first known reference of the idea of cats have
nine lives is believed to go back to a fifteen
to eighty four book called Beware of the Cat. In it,
the author writes that witches can take the form of
a cat nine times, and that they also have a
third nipple for their diabolical cat companions to get milk from.
(22:25):
According to he was not pro cat in this book.
He's really worry of the cat, I mean all right.
According to space dot Com, the Dog Days of Summer
are named after the dog Star series, which is really
bright in July when it's really hot, while cat Nights
(22:46):
are associated with Leo the Lion and Leo Minor, the
Smaller Lion and links it's all happening around this time.
Many sources reporting on cat Nights think that this legend
stems at least in part from the fact that cats
are more vocal in August, especially at night, or that's
what people suggest. I'm not sure that's actually correct, because
(23:08):
everybody seemed to end it with I've never noticed this,
but it seems like a thing that's probably cat.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Cat owners.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Let us know, cat owners, Let us know, cat owners,
let us know. Some also add that because cats have
superior night vision, they were more likely to be on
the prowl at night, so you would hear this meowing
and yowling at night, and somebody I didn't go too
deep into it, but somebody was talking about, you know,
(23:35):
cats weren't neutered at this time in Europe, so probably
much louder than what we would experience now. Some iterations
of the legend and a similar Scottish legend include caught She,
a fairy cat closely associated with August and the night.
In fact, some think that this figure is where cat
(23:57):
Nights originates from. The name translates to cat of the mounds,
and it refers to Neolithic burial mounds littered across modern
day UK. I hope I didn't butcher the pronunciation, but
it's like banshee caught she. Yeah, so I believe banshee
is a woman of the mounds. Similar Yes, these fairy
(24:22):
cats or large black cats with a tuft of white
on their chest, capable of walking on two legs, and
they were generally depicted as kind of scary or at
the very least you wouldn't mess with them, demanding respects,
though on occasion they would grant someone a blessing and
a handful of tellings they are which is themselves. Some
(24:44):
speculate that the Kellis cat, which is a large wildcat
native to this region, might be the inspiration for the legend,
and they are believed to be the result of mating
between domesticated house cats and wildcats. According to some things
I read and again Grain of Salt, listeners from these
(25:05):
areas please write it. The Scottish believed that if a
cot she crossed over a corpse before burial, it could
steal the soul of the dead, and so to prevent
this people put into place what were called late wakes
to keep the cat she away until the corpse is
buried and the gods had claimed the corpse's soul. So
(25:29):
they would distract the cat with games and warm hearts
or cat nip or riddles that is very specific. Yes, yes,
tell the cat riddle and they'll be there thinking about
it for a while.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Oh, I would fail. I don't know any riddles. I
I know some riddles.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I'm okay, okay, that's good because if I die, you
will have to tell you.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Another legend goes that on Swim, which is the pagan
holiday that is seen as the originator of Halloween. People
who left out some milk for caught She and they
would get a blessing as they did, and those who
didn't leave out the milk would get a curse, specifically
that their cows would produce no more milk. Yes, yes,
(26:29):
So that is cat Nights. That is the story of
Caught She. I would love for listeners to write in
here's my fun random tidbit, cultural tidbit. So there's a
character and one of my very favorite games of all time,
(26:50):
Fantasy Vin Kate Sith, and it is pronounced Kate Sith
in the game, and that game love Star Wars of
Star Wars references, so I always thought like Sith was
a reference to Star Wars in some way, but when
I was reading this, I was like, no, this character
is a cat. Yeah, it's a small cat, but it's
(27:13):
it's black, and it's got the white tuft, and it
sits on top of a large the robot cat like body,
and it has a Scottish accent. Oh, he has a
Scottish accent, and he's very like all about luck and
fortune and all of this stuff. And I looked into
(27:34):
it and it was at least a little bit based
on the legend of Caught Chea. Yes, because as we said,
Pantay seven is made by a Japanese company, So in Japan,
black cats are lucky. So I think that they were
kind of playing on the differing views of luck around
(27:57):
black cats.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
But okay, I understand something more. One of my favorite games.
I love it. Yes, all this time I thought it
was just a Star Wars reference.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Well, of course, and now I know, and now you
figured it out.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yes, Yes, I was very happy to learn this.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
That's interesting. I knew there was lores with cats, but
I didn't know that depth of lore.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Had never heard of this outside of every year it
comes up in things that happen in August, right, So
that was the extent of my knowledge.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And it goes hand in hand with the House of Dragons,
which they have a whole scene. Yeah, she has a
whole scene where they come in and they talk about
their rat problem and their barn and she brings in cats.
She's like, oh, he's like a lot of other areas
have been bringing in a cat. She's like really, and
that's how the cats are introduced to their community, their town.
(28:59):
And jump forward and we see are chasing the cat.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Name so that would be Game of Thrones, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
So but both like the House those Dragons, was like,
this is how it began and why those cats were
there to begin with. When Ario was chasing the cat.
She's the one that brought in the cats for rat infestation.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Hm hmmm. That was just like a mean going.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
About it was a big deal and it makes sense. Yeah,
you've got a rat problem.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
I know, like a lot barn cats and we brought
When I worked at a brewery, they had problems with
rats coming into like the grain and barley area. So
they've brought in three cats and they was happily and
I went back there to try to fight them. They
did not care about me. But yeah, huh interesting, thank
(29:49):
you for letting me know I like this.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yes, yes, I was happy to learn about it as well.
And yeah, please listeners right in. If we missed anything
or if you any any thoughts about this, we would
love to hear from you. To people I saw some
people do celebrate it. Really, if you do that, it's amazing. Yes,
(30:11):
how do you celebrate? Tell us about this?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Tell us about it? Please. You can email us at
Hello A Stuffmanever told You? Dot com.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
You can find us on blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never told You.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
We're also on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
We have some merchandise at comt Bureau and we have
a book you can get where you get your books.
Thanks as always to our super producer Rima and our
executive producer Maya.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never
told You The Protection by Heart Radio.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or where you
listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff Whenever.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Told you production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to one of
our first episodes of August. Happy August. It is storming
right now, so if you hear some rain sounds or
(00:30):
some thunder, it's ambience and it actually fits for this episode.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Oh, we need to go ahead and start adding that
in just kidd out, just kidding.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
So every August we have this problem and wherein we
like try to look up what is August, like what
is the national months of x y Z because we're
coming off Pride and disability Pride and every August. Every
year I go through this and there's some things but
nothing major. It reminds me of being a kid. And
(01:04):
I used to like that My birthday was in August
because there were no holidays in August, so it was
like a little celebration.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah I could have. But the funny thing.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Is that every year I come across this particular topic,
cat nights, and every year I tell myself it's not
enough to talk about. But I decided this year, no,
I really want to talk about cat nights and speaking up.
Before we get into it, I have an update about
(01:37):
my neighborhood cat. So listeners you should know, if you've
listened for a while, there's this cat that lives in
my neighborhood, beautiful cat named Blue, and he was recently
hit by a car. He's fine, but basically our apartment
has adopted him and rehabilitated him, and he's great. Like
(01:59):
you wouldn't know other than the loss of title, you
wouldn't know anything happened to him. He's full of energy
and he's a very chaos cat, very mischievous. But recently
he did kind of become my cat because I was
the only person I'm pretty sure in the apartment over
(02:19):
the Fourth of July weekend, and so the cat was
my cat and we were buzz and he was chaotic.
My apartment has a lot of things that a cat
would like to knock over, so we had to negotiate that.
There was a lot of me being like, no, please,
don't do that. But we had a grand old time
(02:42):
and then he moved on. Now he's hanging out with
other people, but for that one weekend it was yours.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
It was and he jump scared me a lot. Oh
my goodness, I could only imagine he'd pop out from
like under.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
That is your aw because cats love pouncling, so I can't. Yeah,
you know what, I wish you had a camera in
the house just for that, just for those moments.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
To be honest, it was a lot of a lot
of excitement, a lot of startled yelps. But I'm okay,
I'm okay, Cat's okay, and I'm okay. So I'm I'm
really excited to talk about this. I have never heard
of cat nights before, have you?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
No, I'm very intrigued you I've heard of cat cafes.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
No, that's not what we will be touching on, but
I bet they do celebrate cat nights. So we're talking
about cats and witches today primarily, And this is going
to be a shorter one because, as I said, every year,
I've been like, I'm not sure there's enough information when
I stumble across this, because we're talking about a legend
(03:54):
in folklore and there just aren't a lot of primary sources,
as in, every reference is to a quote vague legend
or an obscure legend, but you can't find what they're referencing,
or whatever they got it from is lost or it
didn't exist in the first place, there are like a
couple that I would say lend themselves to There were
(04:18):
some historical reasoning that this became a legend, but this
is often the case with stories like cat nights. But
I am someone who still finds this stuff interesting. I
used to run into this on Saver all the time,
because you find a legend and it's so fascinating, but
you can't find anything to back it up at all,
(04:38):
like even that it was a legend until recently. So
you have to keep that stuff in mind. And that's
my disclaimer at the top, is that these vague origin
stories sometimes everybody just agreed that they happen because they
found it in another source, but they're all relying on
each other, and there's nothing that indicates that it wasn't
(05:02):
invented far later. I do, as I said, think there
are a couple couple of instances that suggest that it
was actually an older legend, but we'll get into those
also for a sadder disclaimer, As with all of these
as ridiculous as it sounds now, people accused of witchcraft
died a lot of people, many of them women or
(05:25):
otherwise marginalized people, and sometimes owning a cat was enough
to draw suspicion. During the height of the witch hunts
in Europe and America, in some cases the cat was blamed.
So while this is fun in terms of a legend,
it's important to keep in mind the reality of these
witch hunts and reading through some of the trials for this,
(05:49):
I was once again infuriated by how many were not
only punishing a woman for existing outside of patriarchal white
Christian norms, but how often it was used by men
as a punishment, like.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
So they went after the cat, like of which when
they went after it, well, the goat.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
It turned out to be the thing.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
But like like that thing that they are demon that
the cat is a demon or the demon.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Oh well, there's a famous account of a cat cat faith,
which is thought to be a play on Satan.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Who named it the people that I don't know, actually
Sir Sathan died.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
There are three women who were implicated in their quote
crimes with the cats. One of them did was executed,
oh lord, but I think the other two weren't. I'm
not sure about the cat, but yeah, I should say
the cat, I should say. Before we get into this,
we are going to talk about some violence against cats
because they.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Did for pursuing the friendly episode witchcrafts.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Well, yeah, so is there a horror movie based on this?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Have you found it? I don't know. I haven't found it.
Oh I should have known. You'd have already talked about
it I had it been there, but I would have
mentioned it.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I do have a fun cultural note at the end,
and I believe it's actually fun. That's not the way
I sometimes find things fun that you find like horrifying.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Okay, okay, good to know.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yes, yes, So, yeah, as I was saying when I
was going back over some of these cases.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And the witch trials, at least at least.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
A handful of them were just men wanting someone to
kill their wife, maybe because she got pregnant and they
didn't want to take care of the child, or she
was too successful or things like that.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So it was it was really upsetting and infuriating. So
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I guess every time I talk about this it feels distance,
but I don't think we should dismiss the damage that
it did, right, Yes, okay, So with all of that
out of the way, Yeah, let's talk about cats and witches,
because today we were talking about cat Knights, which is
an Irish legend that starts on August seventeenth every year,
(08:19):
so Cat Knights starts on August seventeenth. Now, before we
get into the details of cat Knights, just a reminder
that Kristen and Caroline old host of the show, did
an episode on the Crazy Cat Lady trope that we're
going to bring back as a classic because some of
that touches on what we're discussing here. But they did
(08:40):
a whole episode, so you can check that out. As
I'm sure most of you are familiar, we have a
long history of associating cats with witches and with women
in general, and this is something I've been trying to
do an episode on for a long time too, is
the gingerzation of pets and cats are always yes, feminine, yes, us.
(09:00):
We're going to talk a little bit about that, but
that's probably a bigger topic for a separate episode and
speaking of a lot of scholars have published in depth
histories about why this is, but for our purposes today,
we're just going to do a brief overview. Cats have
not always had the association with nefarious witches or spinsters.
(09:21):
Ancient Egyptians worshiped them, and killing one was a punishable
crime an ancient Egypt, and they kept cats as pets
they mourned when they died. According to PBS, they would
shave their eyebrows to display respect for a lost cat.
This is in part due to the goddess Bastet, the
(09:42):
goddess of women's fertility, sexuality, and motherhood, who had the
body of a human woman and the head of a cat,
at least in the primary depictions of her.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Hecate, the mythological Greek goddess of magic, witchcraft, sorcery, and
the moon, had a pet cat, but she also had
a cat as a familiar, which in European legend is
a supernatural creature that helps witches. There's a lot of.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Other goddesses that have affiliations with cats, too, including Norse
mythologies Freya, so that association has been there for a
long time. This is also the early beginnings of why
cats are associated with femininity. This would later be weaponized
during the suffrage movement with depictions of women as kittens
(10:29):
crying and the rise of the word catem Later in
the nineteen seventies, cats were used as symbols against the
queer community and leaning hard into the crazy cat lady stereotype.
They were used as that basically mean unmarried women aka lesbians.
So even a few feminist groups worried that lesbians were
(10:51):
a threat to feminism and they would use this kind
of crazy cat lady cat symbology. When you think of
the stereotypical characatures of witches, they're ugly, they're old, they're undesirable,
they hate men, which was what some of these detractors
wanted to equate feminists too, and certain feminist movements wanted
to distance themselves from the messaging was that these women
(11:16):
were lonely, they did have a man, and so they
needed a cat. In response, a lot of second wave
feminists in the queer community adopted the cat as a
sword of mascot and fear around the childless cat lady
is still a thing.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Vice President JD. Evince is worried about it.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
The interesting thing is that a few of the women
he criticized for being childless cat ladies are not childless
and they didn't have cats, just as feminists celebrate the
term cat lady regardless of if you have cats, which
showcases the weight of its history and what it represents,
because you're not being literal in that sense, you're saying
(11:56):
that it has a meaning beyond literal. I think, in
the most oversimplifying terms, it's a woman who doesn't need
a man. She might want one, but she doesn't need one,
and is independent, pushing against and threatening patriarchal norms, and
apparently it's a whole thing to be like, I'll just
take the cat, no man, thanks. I thought it was
(12:21):
a social media trend. I don't know, let me know.
Listeners on the other hand, though, sexualized catwoman, as in
like batman, So you've also got that going on here.
So women are either hyper sexualized or desexualized in this
kind of cat lady catwoman trope.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
All right, but I've jumped way ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
During the Middle Ages, cats were prized by those looking
to keep their stores of grain rat free. In fact,
according to a few sources, people would pay quite a
bit for a cat, like equal to a sheep or goat.
They were popular in monasteries, often the only animal allowed inside,
but this drastically changed in Europe by the sixteenth century,
(13:22):
when cats were associated with paganism, which is an even
the devil. Historians point to the extermination of pagan traditions
in Europe and the rise of Christianity with the turn
of the cat's reputation for the worse. And so the
sixteenth century is when it kind of reached its head,
but it had there had been like seeds of it
(13:43):
going on before them. The Church viewed paganism as competition
and targeted witches and all connected to them to destroy
that competition. Pagans were known for deep respect for nature
and animals, so a bond within the animal became suspects
under Christian authority, and people started to believe that cats
(14:06):
were messengers utilized by witches and indicated a curse one
they might pay the Church to get removed, and or
witches themselves transformed to move through society without drawing attention.
So that's sort of where the whole you don't want
to cross paths with the black cat thing comes from,
(14:26):
is that if you saw a cat at this time,
you might think it's a witch trying to place a
curse on you.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Turn the other way, turned the other way. Not like
the matrix.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
It's no, but I do find that interesting. I thought
about that as well.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Cats were also seen as too independent and disrespectful, as
if they didn't care about the rules of the church,
and they did not love men as effusively as men
would like just as the woman who kept them. Wow,
I mean, I'm joking, but this really was like a
(15:09):
people thought this the cat's too independent.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I don't like it, and I'm kind of laughing about it.
But there were serious consequences to all of this.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Francis Simpson's nineteen oh three work The Book of the
Cat has this quote. It was believed that the devil
borrowed the coat of a black cat when he wished
to torment his victims, and this belief led to black
cats being chased, hunted, tortured, and even burned alive alongside witches,
and a superstition that lasted this day around black cats
(15:44):
and bad luck.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Nang.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I just I assume my animal would be like, if
I had to be represented as an animal, it would
be a cat, because I'm a little moody, a little
bit rebellious. Uh huh, Like I want to cuddle, but
if you want me to cuddle, I'll probably be like, no,
don't touch me.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Right, Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Although like because of that demeanor, I don't always gravitate
towards cats those same reasons, even though it could be
described for me. Maybe it's just, you know, self hatred
in a different way.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Cats. I don't hate cats. I love cats, y'all. I
like cats. I feel like you're digging yourself. It's hard.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I will say, my niece has a very viral cat,
and this little dirty one is super cute.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And just to clarify, you mean viral social media? Yes, sorry, okay,
I mean I don't know what the people would think.
I just wanted to make sure that we're on the
same page. We're talking about witchcraft and witches.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
I'm working on being clearer in my Okay, Okay, you're right,
we shouldn't assume. I just can't imagine what going viral
would mean in another context.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, let's not think about it, okay, Okay, moving on. Yes, Yes,
in his work are cats and all about them. Harrison
Weir adds another possible explanation for the superstition around black cats. Quote,
A very remarkable peculiarity of the domestic cat is the
extraordinary property which its fur possesses of yielding electric sparks
(17:27):
when hand rubbed or by other friction the black and
a larger degree than any other color. Even the rapid
motion of a fast retreating cat through rough tangled underwood
having been known to produce a luminous effect in frosty weather,
it is the more noticeable the coldness of the weather,
apparently giving intensity and brilliancy, which to the ignorant would
(17:48):
certainly be attributed to the interference of the spiritual or superhuman. Plus,
he also goes on to add the nocturnalize that seemed
to glow in.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
The night, so sunder dog's eyes, and wolves and coyotes,
most animals, deer do wow.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
The black cats though its associated with which is therefore
it's more suspects.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
That's even worse goat size, and also possums and raccoons.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeahs, anyway, keep going, you do you okay?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
It's also possible that because cats could black cats particularly
could blend in better at night, they were better at
catching mice, which would have been something pagans would have
gone for or like anybody, but I was reading an
article that was like, pagans were always practical, so this
would have made sense to them.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So that's true.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
The connection between black cats and whiches would solidify.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
In that way. Yeah. Also, I just like the sin
as pagans were more practical.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, they are more about you know, nature, understanding nature,
which makes sense.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Recent research suggest that cats may have a preference for
women just because they are more likely to interact with them,
feed them, and take care of them. So that kind
of goes into not only this association with witches, but
also the crazy cat lady trip. Yeah, there's actually been
a lot of research about that lately, so maybe time
(19:22):
for a revisit. Reminder, the church at the time was
incentivized to have women married, both because of religious purposes,
but also because the church didn't want to care for
children born outside of wedlock, which was kind of what
would happen at the time. Simultaneously, governments wanted more capital,
(19:45):
children as labors, children as future soldiers, so women living
outside of that represented a threat And just another fact
before we move on. Cats were sometimes blamed for the
spread of the bubonic plague during Middle Ages and were
killed for it. However, historians nowadays suspected this actually exacerbated
(20:08):
the spread of it because the cats were great at
hunting rats, right that were actually spreading the disease, so yeah,
not good. Also, if you want another interesting fact about
the bubonic plague, check out the Sabers episode on Lemonade,
because something really interesting happened in Paris with Lemonadely yes, yes, yes, yes, Oh,
(20:36):
and I should say black cats are lucky in some
cultures like Japan, so yeah, they're not always that luck.
That finally brings us two cat Knights, the Irish legend
of cat Knights, which starts on August seventeenth and runs
to the twenty sixth, although some places I was looking
(20:58):
at said it ends on seventeen. It's meant to be
sort of a transition period from the dog days of
summer as we move towards fall in the Northern Hemisphere.
At least according to more modern sources. There are a
couple of variants of this legend that we're going to
go through, but at the heart of most of them
(21:18):
is the idea that during this time, which is can
transform into a cat and back eight times, but on
the ninth time, the transformation sticks in their cat forever
and they meow and yell loudly during the month, And
this is allegedly where we get the saying cats have
nine lives now. Obviously, the vagueness of this legend leaves
(21:43):
a lot of questions. Ye does the count reset outside
of this timeframe? If I transform eight times but I
don't do it the ninth, do I get.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
To do it again the next year? Right? I don't
know can answer question? Well, Dane, what's the point of
this then?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
The first known reference of the idea of cats have
nine lives is believed to go back to a fifteen
to eighty four book called Beware of the Cat. In it,
the author writes that witches can take the form of
a cat nine times, and that they also have a
third nipple for their diabolical cat companions to get milk from.
(22:25):
According to he was not pro cat in this book.
He's really worry of the cat, I mean all right.
According to space dot Com, the Dog Days of Summer
are named after the dog Star series, which is really
bright in July when it's really hot, while cat Nights
(22:46):
are associated with Leo the Lion and Leo Minor, the
Smaller Lion and links it's all happening around this time.
Many sources reporting on cat Nights think that this legend
stems at least in part from the fact that cats
are more vocal in August, especially at night, or that's
what people suggest. I'm not sure that's actually correct, because
(23:08):
everybody seemed to end it with I've never noticed this,
but it seems like a thing that's probably cat.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Cat owners.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Let us know, cat owners, Let us know, cat owners,
let us know. Some also add that because cats have
superior night vision, they were more likely to be on
the prowl at night, so you would hear this meowing
and yowling at night, and somebody I didn't go too
deep into it, but somebody was talking about, you know,
(23:35):
cats weren't neutered at this time in Europe, so probably
much louder than what we would experience now. Some iterations
of the legend and a similar Scottish legend include caught She,
a fairy cat closely associated with August and the night.
In fact, some think that this figure is where cat
(23:57):
Nights originates from. The name translates to cat of the mounds,
and it refers to Neolithic burial mounds littered across modern
day UK. I hope I didn't butcher the pronunciation, but
it's like banshee caught she. Yeah, so I believe banshee
is a woman of the mounds. Similar Yes, these fairy
(24:22):
cats or large black cats with a tuft of white
on their chest, capable of walking on two legs, and
they were generally depicted as kind of scary or at
the very least you wouldn't mess with them, demanding respects,
though on occasion they would grant someone a blessing and
a handful of tellings they are which is themselves. Some
(24:44):
speculate that the Kellis cat, which is a large wildcat
native to this region, might be the inspiration for the legend,
and they are believed to be the result of mating
between domesticated house cats and wildcats. According to some things
I read and again Grain of Salt, listeners from these
(25:05):
areas please write it. The Scottish believed that if a
cot she crossed over a corpse before burial, it could
steal the soul of the dead, and so to prevent
this people put into place what were called late wakes
to keep the cat she away until the corpse is
buried and the gods had claimed the corpse's soul. So
(25:29):
they would distract the cat with games and warm hearts
or cat nip or riddles that is very specific. Yes, yes,
tell the cat riddle and they'll be there thinking about
it for a while.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Oh, I would fail. I don't know any riddles. I
I know some riddles.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I'm okay, okay, that's good because if I die, you
will have to tell you.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Another legend goes that on Swim, which is the pagan
holiday that is seen as the originator of Halloween. People
who left out some milk for caught She and they
would get a blessing as they did, and those who
didn't leave out the milk would get a curse, specifically
that their cows would produce no more milk. Yes, yes,
(26:29):
So that is cat Nights. That is the story of
Caught She. I would love for listeners to write in
here's my fun random tidbit, cultural tidbit. So there's a
character and one of my very favorite games of all time,
(26:50):
Fantasy Vin Kate Sith, and it is pronounced Kate Sith
in the game, and that game love Star Wars of
Star Wars references, so I always thought like Sith was
a reference to Star Wars in some way, but when
I was reading this, I was like, no, this character
is a cat. Yeah, it's a small cat, but it's
(27:13):
it's black, and it's got the white tuft, and it
sits on top of a large the robot cat like body,
and it has a Scottish accent. Oh, he has a
Scottish accent, and he's very like all about luck and
fortune and all of this stuff. And I looked into
(27:34):
it and it was at least a little bit based
on the legend of Caught Chea. Yes, because as we said,
Pantay seven is made by a Japanese company, So in Japan,
black cats are lucky. So I think that they were
kind of playing on the differing views of luck around
(27:57):
black cats.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
But okay, I understand something more. One of my favorite games.
I love it. Yes, all this time I thought it
was just a Star Wars reference.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Well, of course, and now I know, and now you
figured it out.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yes, Yes, I was very happy to learn this.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
That's interesting. I knew there was lores with cats, but
I didn't know that depth of lore.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Had never heard of this outside of every year it
comes up in things that happen in August, right, So
that was the extent of my knowledge.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And it goes hand in hand with the House of Dragons,
which they have a whole scene. Yeah, she has a
whole scene where they come in and they talk about
their rat problem and their barn and she brings in cats.
She's like, oh, he's like a lot of other areas
have been bringing in a cat. She's like really, and
that's how the cats are introduced to their community, their town.
(28:59):
And jump forward and we see are chasing the cat.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Name so that would be Game of Thrones, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
So but both like the House those Dragons, was like,
this is how it began and why those cats were
there to begin with. When Ario was chasing the cat.
She's the one that brought in the cats for rat infestation.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Hm hmmm. That was just like a mean going.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
About it was a big deal and it makes sense. Yeah,
you've got a rat problem.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
I know, like a lot barn cats and we brought
When I worked at a brewery, they had problems with
rats coming into like the grain and barley area. So
they've brought in three cats and they was happily and
I went back there to try to fight them. They
did not care about me. But yeah, huh interesting, thank
(29:49):
you for letting me know I like this.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yes, yes, I was happy to learn about it as well.
And yeah, please listeners right in. If we missed anything
or if you any any thoughts about this, we would
love to hear from you. To people I saw some
people do celebrate it. Really, if you do that, it's amazing. Yes,
(30:11):
how do you celebrate? Tell us about this?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Tell us about it? Please. You can email us at
Hello A Stuffmanever told You? Dot com.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
You can find us on blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never told You.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
We're also on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
We have some merchandise at comt Bureau and we have
a book you can get where you get your books.
Thanks as always to our super producer Rima and our
executive producer Maya.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never
told You The Protection by Heart Radio.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or where you
listen to your favorite shows
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.