June 1, 2015 • 36 mins
Transgender characters are beginning to come alive on television. Cristen and Caroline talk to trans activist and writer Raquel Willis about the pop culture's historical relationship with transgender narratives, stereotypical trans roles and the cis actors who've played them, and why trans TV matters.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You from how stup
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline. Caroline. I've noticed in the past
year or so that in so many entertainment industry publications
(00:25):
everyone is talking about the quote unquote rise of transgender TV. Yeah.
TV is playing a huge role in the representation of
trans people, and it's it's kind of been incredible to
watch because you know, when you and I were growing up,
Kristen um Ellen came out on television as a lesbian.
(00:49):
That was a huge deal pop culturally, but it seemed
to really take a long time for similarly positive or
just sort of socially acceptable representations of lesbians and LGBT
characters in general to sort of follow suit. But it
seems stiffer with trans characters. I mean, like you said,
in the past year two, trans representation and the discussion
(01:13):
of that representation has really exploded. Yeah. For instance, laver
and Cox has been on the cover of Time magazine,
more recently on the cover of Variety magazine. She's had
photo spreads in publications like Allure, um Janet Mock has
been in a number of places. She has her own
show on MSNBC. UM, you have Jeffrey Tamber who is
(01:38):
not a transgender man but portrays uh sis genderman transitioning
to transgender woman on the Amazon show Transparent, and he
won an Emmy for that. And it does seem like
everywhere we turn, we're seeing coverage of some sort or
new projects in the Hollywood pipeline focusing on these kinds
(02:01):
of stories. And as we're going to talk about this week,
even though we are yes seeing more and more transgender visibility,
that doesn't mean that the fight is over. That doesn't
mean that these stories are being told in a completely
non problematic way. Um. But it does signal that we
(02:23):
have come far, especially when we look back at the
pop cultural history of trans characters, which if we look
at lgbt Q characters in pop culture history period, you
take it back a couple of decades or even you know,
a handful of years, and it's not so kind or
even humanizing. And this is something that Julius Serrano writes
(02:46):
about in her two thousand seven book Whipping Girl, when
she notes how trans characters are often stereotyped in one
of two primary ways as either being deceptive a lot
of the crying game or pitiable to the point of
looking like hapless cross dressers. That's where we get into
the transgender as a punchline territory. Right. That reminds me,
(03:10):
I mean, going way back. That reminds me of mash
and the character who cross dresses on the show. And
it's just like, there's just this weird thing about this guy.
We're not really sure what's up with him, But isn't
it funny that a guy would want to wear a
lady's dress? Right exactly? And I mean there are a
couple of common tropes surrounding trans characters. Of course, you've
got the villain or the murderer. We saw this on
(03:31):
the show C s I, which featured a trans serial killer.
We also saw Michael Caine's depiction in the movie Dressed
to Kill. There's also, of course, like we just mentioned,
the playing a trans character just for the comedy aspect,
or a farce, usually with cross dressing men like in
the show Bosom Buddies, which, to be clear, cross dressing
(03:52):
is not the same thing as transgender, but pop culture
has certainly conflated the two. Um and then you finally
get to the tragic character, hence seeing so many transgender
sex workers on shows like Law and Order and Sons
of Anarchy. Laverne Cox played a number of sex workers
(04:14):
before her big break. She also had a number of
bit roles on Lawn Order, as it seems like most
A list stars at some point have a bit part
on Law and Order. I know, I love going back
and watching those old episodes and just parking in front
of the TV all day, honestly, but yeah, you will
see some incredible, some incredible star studed episodes. But anyway,
there were some early highlights regarding trans characters on TV.
(04:39):
It's not all bad news necessarily. If you look back
to a nineteen seventy seven episode of The Jefferson's, for instance,
they featured an actually sympathetic trans woman character whom George
Jefferson was in the Navy with. And and it actually
portrays this woman as you know, like I saw a
sympathetic character, someone who's not to be pitied or feared. Yeah,
(05:01):
and and certainly this character of e d who comes
on one show is still use a little bit to
get laughs. I mean The Jefferson's is a comedy. It's
used to propel George Jefferson's plotline in the show. But
all of the blog analyzes that I read about this
episode praise it overall, saying that hey, in seven this
(05:26):
was a pretty big deal. And then not so surprisingly,
if you've listened to our episode on the Golden Girls,
there was a Golden Girls episode featuring a trans mail character,
Gil Kessler. And again, this is on a sitcom, It's
partially used for laughs. Dorothy in particular can't entirely wrap
(05:47):
her head around Gil, but ultimately Gil again is treated
as a sympathetic person, more of a human than just
a prop right, And honestly, I think more of that
plotline revolves around blanches sexuality, and if Blanches sleeping around,
then it does on Gil Kessler's sexual orientation, sexuality, any
(06:10):
of that. And so then in nineteen we get Olympia
Dukakis starring as Mrs Madrigal in Tales of the City,
and the show has a detailed narrative and backstory for
this character that doesn't necessarily exclusively revolve around her gender identity. Yeah,
and Caroline, this took me back to my post college
(06:31):
days when I first moved to Atlanta and I was
living alone. I didn't really know anybody. And there was
the solid month when my nightly routine was to come
home watch Tales of the City, which I had checked
out from the library, Friends and Trader Joe's Popsicles. At
(06:52):
the time, it was a little depressing, but I look
back on it now is with with fondness. I love
imagining Kristen just sitting there eating popsicles in the dark,
watching by the glow of the television screen. Well, to
be fair, Caroline, there there was at least one light on,
(07:13):
the light of Mrs Madrigal. Yes, and a fun fact,
I was also living with a cat at the time
named fancy Pants. So it wasn't just me in the apartment. Well,
but it's not just TV where it's it's really hard
for me to move on from Kristen and Mrs Madrigal.
But it wasn't just television that we're making that was
making great strides in terms of trans representation. We start
(07:35):
to see in the eighties and particularly in the nineties,
more sympathetic trans characters appearing on film, and Glad points
to two's The World According to Garp, which features John
LetGo in the role of ROBERTA. Muldoon and John Letgo's
character he had been a big time football player and
(07:57):
transitions into a woman. Yeah, and that in the movie
The World According to Garp. And then you have Tarence
stamp as Bernadette in the cult classic Priscilla, Queen of
the Desert and later in the nineties, and Hillary Swank
plays the real life Brandon Tina in Boys Don't Cry.
(08:21):
And then I remember this is in two thousand five,
Felicity Huffman stars as Brie in the movie Transamerica, and
I remember that being a huge deal pop culturally speaking,
I got a lot of people talking about sort of
trans issues and trans people in the media. Um, that
was sort of the first time that I, as a
nearly grown person, remember this really being a thing in
(08:44):
the media. Yeah. I mean, it really was a watershed
moment because the way the film was even marketed, and
when Huffman was up for an Academy Award, and I
think the film itself was up for even more Academy
awards there was. It did spark a lot of conversation
about transgender identity. But what's interesting to see is that
(09:05):
post Trans America, it seems like much of the progress
that we've seen in terms of pop cultural visibility has
been taking place on the small screen. So, for instance,
in two thousand seven, you have Candice Cane becoming the
first transgender co star of a prime time series on
(09:26):
Dirty Sexy Money on ABC. She had previously played a
role on Ugly Betty if I remember correctly. And it's
around then that more trans characters start appearing on other
TV shows as well. Yeah, we get characters like Max
on The L Word, although a lot of critics found
(09:48):
this character be character to be problematic for a bunch
of reasons, but it was still getting trans issues out
there on screen and and talking about it for better
for worse. Um. And then you also have Adam torres
Is on the fan favorite Degrassi Junior High or was
it at this point Degrassis? I think it was on
Degrassy just a grassy, just like Share, just a grassy. Uh.
(10:12):
And then of course the character of Unique on Glee. Yeah.
And this week, as we mentioned, we're focusing on transgender
representation specifically on television. You might be wondering, who cares
about TV? Why does TV matter? Well, as Janet Mock
put it so well, she says, there's a higher stake
(10:34):
because often the only time an ally or cis gender
person will have interaction with a trans person in life
will be through the television, will be through a magazine article,
will be through an Internet clip that goes viral. I
mean this is the medium in pretty much every person's
home where you know, they are introduced to people that
(10:56):
they otherwise don't interact with on a daily basis. What
event is a trans per person or someone with a
different ethnicity or socio economic background. I mean, TV is
a powerful medium to introduce diversity into our lives exactly.
It's how we relate to different people. But it makes
a huge difference how those diverse people through television shows
(11:18):
and characterizations are introduced into our lives, because if they're
just playing up stereotypes, then is that really going to
be that progressive? Probably not. Yeah, And to help us
get into this conversation more in depth and discuss that
importance of representation and visibility, We've invited a special friend
(11:38):
of ours on the show to help talk about it.
We invited our friend Riquel, who is a transactivist, writer
and really all around media Maven to talk about the
issue of trans representation, particularly on TV because it seems
like we're sort of in the middle of a of
a moment for trans characters but also transactors. We've seen
(12:03):
uh Laverne Cox on the cover of several magazines. She's
super vocal, she's amazing on Orange as the New Black.
Janet Mock has a show on MSNBC. Bruce Jenner's interview
was a massive cultural moment with Diane Sawyer, and so, yeah,
today we're going to take a look at basically issues
(12:24):
around trans representation. Yeah, and we're also going to talk
about the evolution of transgender characters on television and how
we're seeing them more and more portrayed not so much
as stereotypes but as actual people. And we wanted to
talk to Raquel about why that's important and also progress
(12:46):
that still needs to be made, and a lot of
things in between. So, first of all, Raquel, welcome to
the show. Thanks for talking to us today, Thank you
for having me. Let's just kick off with the general
question of why should we care about television? Why do
trans representations on TV? Matter? Because we might think, well,
(13:09):
it's just pop culture, it's just TV, it's just Orange
is the New Black? What difference could that possibly make right. Well,
I think diversity period matters on television and the media. Um,
just as we know the world doesn't all look one
shade or one gender or one sexuality. It's important to
(13:29):
have accurate and realistic portrayals. And a lot of times
trans people throughout history have been portrayed in the media,
but they've been portrayed through assist gender lens. Um. They've
been portrayed through words and voice of that don't actually
reflect the reality of a lot of trans people's lives.
(13:50):
And it seems like too if we look at sort
of the history of trans portrayed characters on television, a
lot of times it's just been used, particularly if you
go back to like the six season the seventies, is
just used as a punchline. You have Flip Wilson, for instance,
cross stressing, and it's just this funny thing of oh, well,
(14:12):
well that's that's all that really is. It's just play
acting in some kind of way. And then you also
have the issue of them not really being people and
characters in their own rights so much as just ways
to push other characters storylines along right right, definitely, And
and that's the thing is that, um, I think a
(14:34):
lot of times people forget that trans people are human.
You know, we have lives and we go to work,
and we have families and loved ones and all of
that good stuff. And we've been missing the mark for
a long time in the media and portraying that UM.
And I also kind of like in it, you know,
to characters who were racial minorities being portrayed in the
(14:57):
early twentieth century and out for a long time. You know,
black actors and actresses were nothing but Butler's right, they
were nothing but made nothing but literal props to these
main white characters. And so I liken it to that,
And I'm glad that now we're seeing more trans people
having main roles um and at least having characters, even
(15:21):
if they're portrayed by people who may not be trans,
as main characters, as full around it human beings. Well,
if we're talking about sort of the history and evolution
of trans characters, I'm interested in what your perception of
this whole issue was growing up. I mean, what kind
of messages did you get and did you interpret about
(15:42):
trans people from the TV that you watched growing up. Well,
the interesting thing, and it's so funny to look back now,
is that early on the first gender nonconforming person, not
even necessarily trans, was RuPaul, right. RuPaul was huge in
the nine these when I was a kid, and RuPaul
had a TV show I think on v H one
(16:05):
and was just doing all of these big things in
the media. But it was a safe portrayal, right, of
any kind of gender nonconforming whatsoever. It was this portrayal
again that could be used as a prop, used as
a trope, used as a joke within the media. And
so RuPaul was never necessarily a human being, but this character, right,
(16:28):
And then I guess as I got older, there of course,
where shows like Jerry Springer and all of those kind
of reality esque talk shows UM and they a lot
of times used trans people as deceivers, as these kind
of people who were out, particularly trans women, who were
(16:51):
out to deceive cis gender heterosexual men. And that that's
a damaging portrayal, right if you think about UM the
trans team who committed suicide at the beginning of the year,
Leela Alcorn. One of the things that she said in
her suicide and now she left on Tumbler with it,
she couldn't see what a future would look like she
(17:15):
couldn't see that being trans means you're still a person, right,
You're still human, You're still allowed to have ambitions and
goals and aspirations, and visibility is something that we have
talked about so often on the podcast, I mean in
terms of just how big of a difference it does make,
(17:39):
whether we're talking about the representations of women in stem
fields or showing like you were talking about racial minority
characters as people, or people with non binary genders and
sexual orientations. How when you were a child, the broader
images that you see in the more quote unquote old
(18:00):
world and the pop culture around you absolutely helps shape
where you think you fit and how you feel in
the world. Well, Matt Kane, who is Glad's Associate director
of Entertainment Media, has actually been interviewed and spoken out
quite a bit about representation in the media, both of
(18:20):
just sort of LGBT characters in general, but also trans
representation in particular, and he told US News and World
Report that the reason it's so important is because looking
at these characters, identifying with these characters on TV is
quote the next best thing to fostering understanding and empathy
for people. And I mean I think we saw that,
(18:41):
um in going back to the nineties with characters like Ellen.
I mean that was a lot of people's first sort
of introduction to like, oh my gosh, a lesbian, like
getting comfortable with the idea and realizing, okay, well, this
sort of humanizes this character that has only ever been
sort of distant and kind of far removed from me. Well,
and with the sample of Ellen too, it's interesting how
that happened, where you have the audience come to like
(19:04):
her as a presumably straight woman and she's very funny
and charming, and so it challenges them at that point
when she comes out to be like wait, wait, but
well and I already like her, but when she she
was a lesbian the whole time, so that means that
means that I like and lim like cool with her
being a lesbian too, Okay, So it's it's it's kind
(19:28):
of interesting to see that. Um So when it comes
then to the these more sympathetic, realistic portrayals of trans
characters on TV. One thing to speaking of Ellen is
that Matt Caine's talked about how that representation is like
twenty years behind the representation of the l G characters.
(19:55):
Although you could also say the b where is that
We're going to do a podcast on bisexual eraser coming up,
so listening on that too. Um. But do you think though,
that that gap is maybe narrowing at an accelerated rate
considering the success of shows like Transparent, Orange Is the
New Black, and Glee? I mean, are we are we
picking up some steam? I definitely think so. I it's
(20:18):
kind of crazy to see so many trans characters, so
many trans narratives in the media now. Even three years ago, Um,
for me, when I was really just starting my transition
as a trans woman, UM, I didn't really have all
these outlets and media, right. I was just as in
(20:39):
the dark as I guess you know, gay and lesbian
people were years and years ago. So it's interesting that
it has kind of picked up really quickly. And I
think it really also kind of mirrors how our society
is moving, right, because we are to a lot of
people closing that gap with the same sex marriage debate, right,
(21:04):
and so it seems like, you know, what are what
is going to be the next big thing on the
lgbt Q front after that? Right? And I think that
these media portrayals and this exposure is really setting the
tone for for us having deeper conversations on what it
means to be any kind of queer after that debate
(21:27):
wraps up. If it wraps up, I'm not saying it is,
but yeah, I mean one question though that that comes
to mind, is so in your experience going back to
what you're talking about, like three years ago, when there's
very little representation of what you mentioned with uh Lela
Alcorn talking about how there were no positive representations to
(21:51):
make it feel as though like transgender people like her
were people too. So in your experience at that time,
what was your model? Did you have role models? Where
did you seek out kind of the to help you
understand like what is going on and oh this is
this is what happens with other people as well, it's
(22:12):
not just me. Well, the interesting thing is, and I
went to the University of Georgia and there I actually
found a huge trans community, but it was mostly trans masculine.
I actually really had a lot of trans men in
my life who were my friends, and that was kind
of who I bounced some of my gender issues off
(22:36):
of gender identity, Um, I guess ruminations. And the interesting
thing is, once I kind of left that space and
came to Atlanta. I found that there actually tends to
be more conversation on the trans woman experience, which is
really interesting. So again, I didn't really have any trans
(22:58):
women in my life arning out, and it's funny. The
first person that I remember being like, oh my god,
this is a huge possibility model with Janet Mock when
she came out in a Marie Claire article. It was
just like wow, bam, she's trans, she's a woman of color,
she is a writer, and it just kind of all
(23:20):
fell into place for me once she came out in
the media. Well, and to see her too in such
a mainstream publication I'm sure like Marie Claire, where it's like, oh,
like okay, this is just like a magazine on the
news stand that so many people are reading it all right,
right right, And it was also very interesting just to
see her narrative embraced in that medium as well, because again,
(23:44):
it was really validating for this women's publication to be
like we see you, we hear you, and we support you. Well. Requel,
you know, you're superactive on social media and you've been
writing all over the inner it and not to get
off on too far with a tangent away from television.
But I am curious what you think the role of
(24:06):
social media is in sort of familiarizing a larger audience
with not only trans issues, but also what trans characters
are out there. I would say the increase in visibility,
particularly when it comes to TV and media, it has
given a lot of people confidence to talk about these issues.
(24:29):
So if you're trans years ago, you could easily be
a trans person and be friends with so many people
who didn't necessarily know because you never posted anything about
it and never talked about it. But now it's welcomed,
it's encouraged. Oh, this is your life, we want to
hear your perspective. Can you talk about this? I actually
have friends now who will tag me and things and say,
(24:51):
what are your thoughts on this? You know this seems
a little off, but let me really probe you because
you know more about us because this is your life.
So I definitely think social media has helped. It's also
given a lot of different marginalized groups the outlet to
critique media. Right. So, I remember the creator of Transparent,
(25:16):
the Amazon TV series, she posted something about the Bruce
dinner situation, and it kind of blew up, and people
from the trans community were like, really, you're you're really
gonna make this joke after really creating this watersha TV
(25:37):
moment for us, we're questioning you right now, and we
want to make sure that you're coming from the right place.
So I think it's definitely helped with raising visibility, confidence
and critiquing the media that we do consume. Yeah, so
not only along with the rise in visibility, it's given
a voice that wasn't there before. I mean we've seen
(25:58):
that too, like in so many path learns of the Internet,
facilitating these communities, like giving a place to organize those
communities and amplifying those voices that were previously drowned out
by the mainstream. So, speaking though of transgender media critique
and it being given more of a voice and given
(26:20):
more power to through through social media, I want to
talk about RuPaul for a minute and drag Race UM.
We actually mentioned this in our podcast a little while
back on Social Justice Warriors UM. But for listeners who
aren't aware of this and didn't listen to that episode,
RuPaul in the show caught a ton of flack a
while back. Now, I think it's like a couple of
(26:42):
years ago at this point for a segment called female
or she male, and also his unapologetic use of the
word tranny. So what I mean? And a lot of
people said, no, this is like not okay, you need
to check yourself, check your own privilege. RuPaul, like, you
need to watch your language, especially being someone who is
(27:03):
so visible. So what what is your take on all
of that? It's complex because RuPaul and I love RuPaul.
I said that earlier, but RuPaul has been a pillar
within the LGBTQ community for so many years. And while
I don't want to take away from that, we do
(27:24):
have to acknowledge that RuPaul, at the end of the day,
takes off all of his drag goes home. Is a
sais gender man, and there's privileged there. And when you're
not trans, it's easy to be like, this is not
an issue, this is not a big thing. But it's
really offensive because these are slurs that are thrown at
(27:47):
trans women when they are killed, right, These are slurs
that are thrown at trans women when they are discriminating against,
when they don't get jobs, when they can't move about
freely within this world. And so for RuPaul to completely
dismiss that as if it doesn't matter. It is heartful,
and it comes from a place of not seeking a
(28:10):
deeper understanding, right, because he feels that he's he's done
his due diligence with the community, he's done his service,
and so he doesn't have to learn anymore. But the
thing is to be an effective leader, to be in
effect of spokesperson, you have to understand that you will
not get oppression and its totality, it's completely unfathomable to
(28:34):
do that. You have to continue to seek out advice
and understanding, especially when you're trying to represent so many
groups at one time. Well do you think there's an
aspect too of RuPaul maybe throwing up his hands and saying, listen,
I'm not I'm not an activist. I'm an entertainer. So
let me do. Let me do my thing. I know
(28:54):
I'm not being RuPaul apologist, you know what I mean?
But I wonder if that's that's art of it too,
of like, well, I don't I don't want to carry
this mantle, right, And and the thing that is so
interesting is this is very much an element of the
drag community period, right. And I actually used to be
a drag performer. So I'm coming from a place of understanding,
(29:19):
and I get drag as a means to push buttons,
as a means of social resistance. But at some point
you have to understand that there's a problem when white
drag queens do black faith, because there are queens out
there who do that. There's a problem when drag queens
(29:41):
are misogynistic outright and and totally you know, using the
B word and and calling women all of these different things.
There is a problem with picking apart other people's femininity.
I mean, film phobia is real out here. So we
have to understand and that, regardless of whether you want
(30:03):
to be a spokesperson for the community, you are and
if you're offending people I gets as a comedian in
some ways as a performer, you want to dodge's responsibility
for that. But we're not gonna let you do that anymore.
Trans people have been doing that for so long. We've
been sitting down lang low because we've been afraid. But
we're not afraid anymore. So RuPaul, I love you, but
(30:26):
stop using this term. I And I also want to
make the point that there are plenty of trans people
who have reclaimed the word tranning right, and I liken
it to the N word. There are a lot of
black people who have reclaimed the N word, and that's fine.
Let people self define as they will. But when you
(30:49):
aren't in that marginalized community, it's not your place to
take that mantle one for yourself. Who I want to
can we put all of that on a pillow? I
want to stitch your entire answer on a pillow. Love it.
You're not a fad And so we have a lot
more to talk to Raqueal about when we come back
next time for part two of this look at transgender
(31:09):
representation on TV. And in the meantime, we want to
hear from you. What do you think about all of this?
Are there particular characters that you love or low that
we've talked about or maybe haven't talked about. Let us
know mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is
their email address. You can also tweet us at mom
Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got a
(31:33):
couple of messages to share with you right now. So
I've got a let her here from Crystal about our
baby Weight Loss Race podcast. She writes, thank you for
bringing up the issue of breastfeeding is a weight loss tool.
As a new mother who still has half her baby
weight after a year of breastfeeding, it's frustrating to hear
(31:55):
celebrities as well as friends talk about the how they
got down to their pre pregnancy weight us through a
few months of breastfeeding, making the rest of us extended
breastfeeding folks look as if we're doing something wrong. I've
actually heard comments that it's my fault that this miracle
weight loss tool isn't working for me. My diet and
or lack of exercise must be the issue, rather than
(32:16):
the possibility that my body just needs the extra fat.
I've heard that a number of women hold on to
that last ten to twenty pounds until they quit breastfeeding,
So here's the hoping. Another thought I wanted to share
was related to gaining babyweight in general. I wanted to
have a natural birth with a midwife, but the issue
of weight game was brought up as a potential reason
that I may have to switch over to the O
(32:37):
b G. I n As a petite female, any weight
gain looked massive on me and I quickly gained too much,
prompting my midwife to take it easy. I ended up
gaining about forty pounds and was able to have a
natural birth. Anyway, I mentioned this to say that anxiety
overweight gain might be related to a whole host of
issues rather than just quote unquote getting fat. Thanks again
(32:58):
for discussing this and keep the info coming. Well. Thanks
Crystal for your insights. And I have a letter here
from Aaron. She says, I'm only in my seventh week
of my first pregnancy, so everything's a little new to me.
I gotta say, I'm definitely looking forward to the baby
bump phase so that I can finally just relax and
let my tummy out. From what I read, in the
(33:18):
first pregnancy, you typically don't start actually showing until you're
about twelve weeks along, almost all the way through the
first trimester. What I've experienced and what people don't tell
you when they're relaying the wonderful pregnancy joy is it
in the first trimester your body goes through major changes.
That's when you get all the nausea, fatigue, moodiness, and
a bloating. Your digestion slows down so the baby can
(33:40):
suck every last nutrient out of what you've eaten, but
you also have to eat practically every hour to keep
the nausea away. You have to eat if you get
up to be in the middle of the night. When
the alarm goes off in the morning, the first thing
you do is stuff some food into your mouth before
you even sit up in bed. So now you're constantly
eating with the added fun of gas and constipation. All
of this boils down a bloated uncomfortable to me that
(34:01):
everyone around you think should still be slim and trim
because you're not far enough along for the real baby bump.
It still is, in fact a burrito. A week ago,
my wonderful husband got excited and said, Oh, I think
you have a bump already. I had to say, no, sweetie,
it's just gas. I was nervous about telling people at
work about my pregnancy. I'm a meddaller just in a
(34:24):
steel foundry, which is one of those women in a
man's world kind of jobs, although I feel like that's
beginning to change, is the younger generation step into the workforce.
I have the fortune of having a female boss and
a female HR manager, but most of the people I
interact with on a daily basis are men between the
ages of thirty and sixty Before I shared my pregnancy news,
I felt self conscious about it. But I've discovered that
(34:45):
I work with a great group of guys who all
have their own children and grandchildren and understand the process.
They've been wonderfully supportive. She goes on to say, I've
never been much into the whole celebrity bump watch stuff
because my thought is, oh, that's cool, she's pregnant. She
probably wants some privacy. I sure it, and I move
on with my life. But I have definitely noticed this
trend in the super fun, creative ways to announce your
(35:06):
pregnancy and all the maternity photos with bear tummies. It
makes me feel like that's now what I'm expected to do,
except that my thought is, why would I want an
expensive professional picture of me half naked with a huge tummy?
Am I going to hang that on my wall for
everyone to see? Because that would be awkward. So I
am now learning to let go of what's trendy and
just go with what feels good to me. I think
(35:27):
the attitude of your podcast helps support that kind of
healthy thinking. So thank you, and thank you Aaron, and
thanks to everybody who's written into us mom Stuff at
how Stuff Works dot Com is our email address and
for links to all of our social media as well
as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, head on
over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for
(35:50):
more on this and thousands of other topics. Doesn't how
Stuff Works dot com four
Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You from how stup
works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline. Caroline. I've noticed in the past
year or so that in so many entertainment industry publications
(00:25):
everyone is talking about the quote unquote rise of transgender TV. Yeah.
TV is playing a huge role in the representation of
trans people, and it's it's kind of been incredible to
watch because you know, when you and I were growing up,
Kristen um Ellen came out on television as a lesbian.
(00:49):
That was a huge deal pop culturally, but it seemed
to really take a long time for similarly positive or
just sort of socially acceptable representations of lesbians and LGBT
characters in general to sort of follow suit. But it
seems stiffer with trans characters. I mean, like you said,
in the past year two, trans representation and the discussion
(01:13):
of that representation has really exploded. Yeah. For instance, laver
and Cox has been on the cover of Time magazine,
more recently on the cover of Variety magazine. She's had
photo spreads in publications like Allure, um Janet Mock has
been in a number of places. She has her own
show on MSNBC. UM, you have Jeffrey Tamber who is
(01:38):
not a transgender man but portrays uh sis genderman transitioning
to transgender woman on the Amazon show Transparent, and he
won an Emmy for that. And it does seem like
everywhere we turn, we're seeing coverage of some sort or
new projects in the Hollywood pipeline focusing on these kinds
(02:01):
of stories. And as we're going to talk about this week,
even though we are yes seeing more and more transgender visibility,
that doesn't mean that the fight is over. That doesn't
mean that these stories are being told in a completely
non problematic way. Um. But it does signal that we
(02:23):
have come far, especially when we look back at the
pop cultural history of trans characters, which if we look
at lgbt Q characters in pop culture history period, you
take it back a couple of decades or even you know,
a handful of years, and it's not so kind or
even humanizing. And this is something that Julius Serrano writes
(02:46):
about in her two thousand seven book Whipping Girl, when
she notes how trans characters are often stereotyped in one
of two primary ways as either being deceptive a lot
of the crying game or pitiable to the point of
looking like hapless cross dressers. That's where we get into
the transgender as a punchline territory. Right. That reminds me,
(03:10):
I mean, going way back. That reminds me of mash
and the character who cross dresses on the show. And
it's just like, there's just this weird thing about this guy.
We're not really sure what's up with him, But isn't
it funny that a guy would want to wear a
lady's dress? Right exactly? And I mean there are a
couple of common tropes surrounding trans characters. Of course, you've
got the villain or the murderer. We saw this on
(03:31):
the show C s I, which featured a trans serial killer.
We also saw Michael Caine's depiction in the movie Dressed
to Kill. There's also, of course, like we just mentioned,
the playing a trans character just for the comedy aspect,
or a farce, usually with cross dressing men like in
the show Bosom Buddies, which, to be clear, cross dressing
(03:52):
is not the same thing as transgender, but pop culture
has certainly conflated the two. Um and then you finally
get to the tragic character, hence seeing so many transgender
sex workers on shows like Law and Order and Sons
of Anarchy. Laverne Cox played a number of sex workers
(04:14):
before her big break. She also had a number of
bit roles on Lawn Order, as it seems like most
A list stars at some point have a bit part
on Law and Order. I know, I love going back
and watching those old episodes and just parking in front
of the TV all day, honestly, but yeah, you will
see some incredible, some incredible star studed episodes. But anyway,
there were some early highlights regarding trans characters on TV.
(04:39):
It's not all bad news necessarily. If you look back
to a nineteen seventy seven episode of The Jefferson's, for instance,
they featured an actually sympathetic trans woman character whom George
Jefferson was in the Navy with. And and it actually
portrays this woman as you know, like I saw a
sympathetic character, someone who's not to be pitied or feared. Yeah,
(05:01):
and and certainly this character of e d who comes
on one show is still use a little bit to
get laughs. I mean The Jefferson's is a comedy. It's
used to propel George Jefferson's plotline in the show. But
all of the blog analyzes that I read about this
episode praise it overall, saying that hey, in seven this
(05:26):
was a pretty big deal. And then not so surprisingly,
if you've listened to our episode on the Golden Girls,
there was a Golden Girls episode featuring a trans mail character,
Gil Kessler. And again, this is on a sitcom, It's
partially used for laughs. Dorothy in particular can't entirely wrap
(05:47):
her head around Gil, but ultimately Gil again is treated
as a sympathetic person, more of a human than just
a prop right, And honestly, I think more of that
plotline revolves around blanches sexuality, and if Blanches sleeping around,
then it does on Gil Kessler's sexual orientation, sexuality, any
(06:10):
of that. And so then in nineteen we get Olympia
Dukakis starring as Mrs Madrigal in Tales of the City,
and the show has a detailed narrative and backstory for
this character that doesn't necessarily exclusively revolve around her gender identity. Yeah,
and Caroline, this took me back to my post college
(06:31):
days when I first moved to Atlanta and I was
living alone. I didn't really know anybody. And there was
the solid month when my nightly routine was to come
home watch Tales of the City, which I had checked
out from the library, Friends and Trader Joe's Popsicles. At
(06:52):
the time, it was a little depressing, but I look
back on it now is with with fondness. I love
imagining Kristen just sitting there eating popsicles in the dark,
watching by the glow of the television screen. Well, to
be fair, Caroline, there there was at least one light on,
(07:13):
the light of Mrs Madrigal. Yes, and a fun fact,
I was also living with a cat at the time
named fancy Pants. So it wasn't just me in the apartment. Well,
but it's not just TV where it's it's really hard
for me to move on from Kristen and Mrs Madrigal.
But it wasn't just television that we're making that was
making great strides in terms of trans representation. We start
(07:35):
to see in the eighties and particularly in the nineties,
more sympathetic trans characters appearing on film, and Glad points
to two's The World According to Garp, which features John
LetGo in the role of ROBERTA. Muldoon and John Letgo's
character he had been a big time football player and
(07:57):
transitions into a woman. Yeah, and that in the movie
The World According to Garp. And then you have Tarence
stamp as Bernadette in the cult classic Priscilla, Queen of
the Desert and later in the nineties, and Hillary Swank
plays the real life Brandon Tina in Boys Don't Cry.
(08:21):
And then I remember this is in two thousand five,
Felicity Huffman stars as Brie in the movie Transamerica, and
I remember that being a huge deal pop culturally speaking,
I got a lot of people talking about sort of
trans issues and trans people in the media. Um, that
was sort of the first time that I, as a
nearly grown person, remember this really being a thing in
(08:44):
the media. Yeah. I mean, it really was a watershed
moment because the way the film was even marketed, and
when Huffman was up for an Academy Award, and I
think the film itself was up for even more Academy
awards there was. It did spark a lot of conversation
about transgender identity. But what's interesting to see is that
(09:05):
post Trans America, it seems like much of the progress
that we've seen in terms of pop cultural visibility has
been taking place on the small screen. So, for instance,
in two thousand seven, you have Candice Cane becoming the
first transgender co star of a prime time series on
(09:26):
Dirty Sexy Money on ABC. She had previously played a
role on Ugly Betty if I remember correctly. And it's
around then that more trans characters start appearing on other
TV shows as well. Yeah, we get characters like Max
on The L Word, although a lot of critics found
(09:48):
this character be character to be problematic for a bunch
of reasons, but it was still getting trans issues out
there on screen and and talking about it for better
for worse. Um. And then you also have Adam torres
Is on the fan favorite Degrassi Junior High or was
it at this point Degrassis? I think it was on
Degrassy just a grassy, just like Share, just a grassy. Uh.
(10:12):
And then of course the character of Unique on Glee. Yeah.
And this week, as we mentioned, we're focusing on transgender
representation specifically on television. You might be wondering, who cares
about TV? Why does TV matter? Well, as Janet Mock
put it so well, she says, there's a higher stake
(10:34):
because often the only time an ally or cis gender
person will have interaction with a trans person in life
will be through the television, will be through a magazine article,
will be through an Internet clip that goes viral. I
mean this is the medium in pretty much every person's
home where you know, they are introduced to people that
(10:56):
they otherwise don't interact with on a daily basis. What
event is a trans per person or someone with a
different ethnicity or socio economic background. I mean, TV is
a powerful medium to introduce diversity into our lives exactly.
It's how we relate to different people. But it makes
a huge difference how those diverse people through television shows
(11:18):
and characterizations are introduced into our lives, because if they're
just playing up stereotypes, then is that really going to
be that progressive? Probably not. Yeah, And to help us
get into this conversation more in depth and discuss that
importance of representation and visibility, We've invited a special friend
(11:38):
of ours on the show to help talk about it.
We invited our friend Riquel, who is a transactivist, writer
and really all around media Maven to talk about the
issue of trans representation, particularly on TV because it seems
like we're sort of in the middle of a of
a moment for trans characters but also transactors. We've seen
(12:03):
uh Laverne Cox on the cover of several magazines. She's
super vocal, she's amazing on Orange as the New Black.
Janet Mock has a show on MSNBC. Bruce Jenner's interview
was a massive cultural moment with Diane Sawyer, and so, yeah,
today we're going to take a look at basically issues
(12:24):
around trans representation. Yeah, and we're also going to talk
about the evolution of transgender characters on television and how
we're seeing them more and more portrayed not so much
as stereotypes but as actual people. And we wanted to
talk to Raquel about why that's important and also progress
(12:46):
that still needs to be made, and a lot of
things in between. So, first of all, Raquel, welcome to
the show. Thanks for talking to us today, Thank you
for having me. Let's just kick off with the general
question of why should we care about television? Why do
trans representations on TV? Matter? Because we might think, well,
(13:09):
it's just pop culture, it's just TV, it's just Orange
is the New Black? What difference could that possibly make right. Well,
I think diversity period matters on television and the media. Um,
just as we know the world doesn't all look one
shade or one gender or one sexuality. It's important to
(13:29):
have accurate and realistic portrayals. And a lot of times
trans people throughout history have been portrayed in the media,
but they've been portrayed through assist gender lens. Um. They've
been portrayed through words and voice of that don't actually
reflect the reality of a lot of trans people's lives.
(13:50):
And it seems like too if we look at sort
of the history of trans portrayed characters on television, a
lot of times it's just been used, particularly if you
go back to like the six season the seventies, is
just used as a punchline. You have Flip Wilson, for instance,
cross stressing, and it's just this funny thing of oh, well,
(14:12):
well that's that's all that really is. It's just play
acting in some kind of way. And then you also
have the issue of them not really being people and
characters in their own rights so much as just ways
to push other characters storylines along right right, definitely, And
and that's the thing is that, um, I think a
(14:34):
lot of times people forget that trans people are human.
You know, we have lives and we go to work,
and we have families and loved ones and all of
that good stuff. And we've been missing the mark for
a long time in the media and portraying that UM.
And I also kind of like in it, you know,
to characters who were racial minorities being portrayed in the
(14:57):
early twentieth century and out for a long time. You know,
black actors and actresses were nothing but Butler's right, they
were nothing but made nothing but literal props to these
main white characters. And so I liken it to that,
And I'm glad that now we're seeing more trans people
having main roles um and at least having characters, even
(15:21):
if they're portrayed by people who may not be trans,
as main characters, as full around it human beings. Well,
if we're talking about sort of the history and evolution
of trans characters, I'm interested in what your perception of
this whole issue was growing up. I mean, what kind
of messages did you get and did you interpret about
(15:42):
trans people from the TV that you watched growing up. Well,
the interesting thing, and it's so funny to look back now,
is that early on the first gender nonconforming person, not
even necessarily trans, was RuPaul, right. RuPaul was huge in
the nine these when I was a kid, and RuPaul
had a TV show I think on v H one
(16:05):
and was just doing all of these big things in
the media. But it was a safe portrayal, right, of
any kind of gender nonconforming whatsoever. It was this portrayal
again that could be used as a prop, used as
a trope, used as a joke within the media. And
so RuPaul was never necessarily a human being, but this character, right,
(16:28):
And then I guess as I got older, there of course,
where shows like Jerry Springer and all of those kind
of reality esque talk shows UM and they a lot
of times used trans people as deceivers, as these kind
of people who were out, particularly trans women, who were
(16:51):
out to deceive cis gender heterosexual men. And that that's
a damaging portrayal, right if you think about UM the
trans team who committed suicide at the beginning of the year,
Leela Alcorn. One of the things that she said in
her suicide and now she left on Tumbler with it,
she couldn't see what a future would look like she
(17:15):
couldn't see that being trans means you're still a person, right,
You're still human, You're still allowed to have ambitions and
goals and aspirations, and visibility is something that we have
talked about so often on the podcast, I mean in
terms of just how big of a difference it does make,
(17:39):
whether we're talking about the representations of women in stem
fields or showing like you were talking about racial minority
characters as people, or people with non binary genders and
sexual orientations. How when you were a child, the broader
images that you see in the more quote unquote old
(18:00):
world and the pop culture around you absolutely helps shape
where you think you fit and how you feel in
the world. Well, Matt Kane, who is Glad's Associate director
of Entertainment Media, has actually been interviewed and spoken out
quite a bit about representation in the media, both of
(18:20):
just sort of LGBT characters in general, but also trans
representation in particular, and he told US News and World
Report that the reason it's so important is because looking
at these characters, identifying with these characters on TV is
quote the next best thing to fostering understanding and empathy
for people. And I mean I think we saw that,
(18:41):
um in going back to the nineties with characters like Ellen.
I mean that was a lot of people's first sort
of introduction to like, oh my gosh, a lesbian, like
getting comfortable with the idea and realizing, okay, well, this
sort of humanizes this character that has only ever been
sort of distant and kind of far removed from me. Well,
and with the sample of Ellen too, it's interesting how
that happened, where you have the audience come to like
(19:04):
her as a presumably straight woman and she's very funny
and charming, and so it challenges them at that point
when she comes out to be like wait, wait, but
well and I already like her, but when she she
was a lesbian the whole time, so that means that
means that I like and lim like cool with her
being a lesbian too, Okay, So it's it's it's kind
(19:28):
of interesting to see that. Um So when it comes
then to the these more sympathetic, realistic portrayals of trans
characters on TV. One thing to speaking of Ellen is
that Matt Caine's talked about how that representation is like
twenty years behind the representation of the l G characters.
(19:55):
Although you could also say the b where is that
We're going to do a podcast on bisexual eraser coming up,
so listening on that too. Um. But do you think though,
that that gap is maybe narrowing at an accelerated rate
considering the success of shows like Transparent, Orange Is the
New Black, and Glee? I mean, are we are we
picking up some steam? I definitely think so. I it's
(20:18):
kind of crazy to see so many trans characters, so
many trans narratives in the media now. Even three years ago, Um,
for me, when I was really just starting my transition
as a trans woman, UM, I didn't really have all
these outlets and media, right. I was just as in
(20:39):
the dark as I guess you know, gay and lesbian
people were years and years ago. So it's interesting that
it has kind of picked up really quickly. And I
think it really also kind of mirrors how our society
is moving, right, because we are to a lot of
people closing that gap with the same sex marriage debate, right,
(21:04):
and so it seems like, you know, what are what
is going to be the next big thing on the
lgbt Q front after that? Right? And I think that
these media portrayals and this exposure is really setting the
tone for for us having deeper conversations on what it
means to be any kind of queer after that debate
(21:27):
wraps up. If it wraps up, I'm not saying it is,
but yeah, I mean one question though that that comes
to mind, is so in your experience going back to
what you're talking about, like three years ago, when there's
very little representation of what you mentioned with uh Lela
Alcorn talking about how there were no positive representations to
(21:51):
make it feel as though like transgender people like her
were people too. So in your experience at that time,
what was your model? Did you have role models? Where
did you seek out kind of the to help you
understand like what is going on and oh this is
this is what happens with other people as well, it's
(22:12):
not just me. Well, the interesting thing is, and I
went to the University of Georgia and there I actually
found a huge trans community, but it was mostly trans masculine.
I actually really had a lot of trans men in
my life who were my friends, and that was kind
of who I bounced some of my gender issues off
(22:36):
of gender identity, Um, I guess ruminations. And the interesting
thing is, once I kind of left that space and
came to Atlanta. I found that there actually tends to
be more conversation on the trans woman experience, which is
really interesting. So again, I didn't really have any trans
(22:58):
women in my life arning out, and it's funny. The
first person that I remember being like, oh my god,
this is a huge possibility model with Janet Mock when
she came out in a Marie Claire article. It was
just like wow, bam, she's trans, she's a woman of color,
she is a writer, and it just kind of all
(23:20):
fell into place for me once she came out in
the media. Well, and to see her too in such
a mainstream publication I'm sure like Marie Claire, where it's like, oh,
like okay, this is just like a magazine on the
news stand that so many people are reading it all right,
right right, And it was also very interesting just to
see her narrative embraced in that medium as well, because again,
(23:44):
it was really validating for this women's publication to be
like we see you, we hear you, and we support you. Well. Requel,
you know, you're superactive on social media and you've been
writing all over the inner it and not to get
off on too far with a tangent away from television.
But I am curious what you think the role of
(24:06):
social media is in sort of familiarizing a larger audience
with not only trans issues, but also what trans characters
are out there. I would say the increase in visibility,
particularly when it comes to TV and media, it has
given a lot of people confidence to talk about these issues.
(24:29):
So if you're trans years ago, you could easily be
a trans person and be friends with so many people
who didn't necessarily know because you never posted anything about
it and never talked about it. But now it's welcomed,
it's encouraged. Oh, this is your life, we want to
hear your perspective. Can you talk about this? I actually
have friends now who will tag me and things and say,
(24:51):
what are your thoughts on this? You know this seems
a little off, but let me really probe you because
you know more about us because this is your life.
So I definitely think social media has helped. It's also
given a lot of different marginalized groups the outlet to
critique media. Right. So, I remember the creator of Transparent,
(25:16):
the Amazon TV series, she posted something about the Bruce
dinner situation, and it kind of blew up, and people
from the trans community were like, really, you're you're really
gonna make this joke after really creating this watersha TV
(25:37):
moment for us, we're questioning you right now, and we
want to make sure that you're coming from the right place.
So I think it's definitely helped with raising visibility, confidence
and critiquing the media that we do consume. Yeah, so
not only along with the rise in visibility, it's given
a voice that wasn't there before. I mean we've seen
(25:58):
that too, like in so many path learns of the Internet,
facilitating these communities, like giving a place to organize those
communities and amplifying those voices that were previously drowned out
by the mainstream. So, speaking though of transgender media critique
and it being given more of a voice and given
(26:20):
more power to through through social media, I want to
talk about RuPaul for a minute and drag Race UM.
We actually mentioned this in our podcast a little while
back on Social Justice Warriors UM. But for listeners who
aren't aware of this and didn't listen to that episode,
RuPaul in the show caught a ton of flack a
while back. Now, I think it's like a couple of
(26:42):
years ago at this point for a segment called female
or she male, and also his unapologetic use of the
word tranny. So what I mean? And a lot of
people said, no, this is like not okay, you need
to check yourself, check your own privilege. RuPaul, like, you
need to watch your language, especially being someone who is
(27:03):
so visible. So what what is your take on all
of that? It's complex because RuPaul and I love RuPaul.
I said that earlier, but RuPaul has been a pillar
within the LGBTQ community for so many years. And while
I don't want to take away from that, we do
(27:24):
have to acknowledge that RuPaul, at the end of the day,
takes off all of his drag goes home. Is a
sais gender man, and there's privileged there. And when you're
not trans, it's easy to be like, this is not
an issue, this is not a big thing. But it's
really offensive because these are slurs that are thrown at
(27:47):
trans women when they are killed, right, These are slurs
that are thrown at trans women when they are discriminating against,
when they don't get jobs, when they can't move about
freely within this world. And so for RuPaul to completely
dismiss that as if it doesn't matter. It is heartful,
and it comes from a place of not seeking a
(28:10):
deeper understanding, right, because he feels that he's he's done
his due diligence with the community, he's done his service,
and so he doesn't have to learn anymore. But the
thing is to be an effective leader, to be in
effect of spokesperson, you have to understand that you will
not get oppression and its totality, it's completely unfathomable to
(28:34):
do that. You have to continue to seek out advice
and understanding, especially when you're trying to represent so many
groups at one time. Well do you think there's an
aspect too of RuPaul maybe throwing up his hands and saying, listen,
I'm not I'm not an activist. I'm an entertainer. So
let me do. Let me do my thing. I know
(28:54):
I'm not being RuPaul apologist, you know what I mean?
But I wonder if that's that's art of it too,
of like, well, I don't I don't want to carry
this mantle, right, And and the thing that is so
interesting is this is very much an element of the
drag community period, right. And I actually used to be
a drag performer. So I'm coming from a place of understanding,
(29:19):
and I get drag as a means to push buttons,
as a means of social resistance. But at some point
you have to understand that there's a problem when white
drag queens do black faith, because there are queens out
there who do that. There's a problem when drag queens
(29:41):
are misogynistic outright and and totally you know, using the
B word and and calling women all of these different things.
There is a problem with picking apart other people's femininity.
I mean, film phobia is real out here. So we
have to understand and that, regardless of whether you want
(30:03):
to be a spokesperson for the community, you are and
if you're offending people I gets as a comedian in
some ways as a performer, you want to dodge's responsibility
for that. But we're not gonna let you do that anymore.
Trans people have been doing that for so long. We've
been sitting down lang low because we've been afraid. But
we're not afraid anymore. So RuPaul, I love you, but
(30:26):
stop using this term. I And I also want to
make the point that there are plenty of trans people
who have reclaimed the word tranning right, and I liken
it to the N word. There are a lot of
black people who have reclaimed the N word, and that's fine.
Let people self define as they will. But when you
(30:49):
aren't in that marginalized community, it's not your place to
take that mantle one for yourself. Who I want to
can we put all of that on a pillow? I
want to stitch your entire answer on a pillow. Love it.
You're not a fad And so we have a lot
more to talk to Raqueal about when we come back
next time for part two of this look at transgender
(31:09):
representation on TV. And in the meantime, we want to
hear from you. What do you think about all of this?
Are there particular characters that you love or low that
we've talked about or maybe haven't talked about. Let us
know mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is
their email address. You can also tweet us at mom
Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got a
(31:33):
couple of messages to share with you right now. So
I've got a let her here from Crystal about our
baby Weight Loss Race podcast. She writes, thank you for
bringing up the issue of breastfeeding is a weight loss tool.
As a new mother who still has half her baby
weight after a year of breastfeeding, it's frustrating to hear
(31:55):
celebrities as well as friends talk about the how they
got down to their pre pregnancy weight us through a
few months of breastfeeding, making the rest of us extended
breastfeeding folks look as if we're doing something wrong. I've
actually heard comments that it's my fault that this miracle
weight loss tool isn't working for me. My diet and
or lack of exercise must be the issue, rather than
(32:16):
the possibility that my body just needs the extra fat.
I've heard that a number of women hold on to
that last ten to twenty pounds until they quit breastfeeding,
So here's the hoping. Another thought I wanted to share
was related to gaining babyweight in general. I wanted to
have a natural birth with a midwife, but the issue
of weight game was brought up as a potential reason
that I may have to switch over to the O
(32:37):
b G. I n As a petite female, any weight
gain looked massive on me and I quickly gained too much,
prompting my midwife to take it easy. I ended up
gaining about forty pounds and was able to have a
natural birth. Anyway, I mentioned this to say that anxiety
overweight gain might be related to a whole host of
issues rather than just quote unquote getting fat. Thanks again
(32:58):
for discussing this and keep the info coming. Well. Thanks
Crystal for your insights. And I have a letter here
from Aaron. She says, I'm only in my seventh week
of my first pregnancy, so everything's a little new to me.
I gotta say, I'm definitely looking forward to the baby
bump phase so that I can finally just relax and
let my tummy out. From what I read, in the
(33:18):
first pregnancy, you typically don't start actually showing until you're
about twelve weeks along, almost all the way through the
first trimester. What I've experienced and what people don't tell
you when they're relaying the wonderful pregnancy joy is it
in the first trimester your body goes through major changes.
That's when you get all the nausea, fatigue, moodiness, and
a bloating. Your digestion slows down so the baby can
(33:40):
suck every last nutrient out of what you've eaten, but
you also have to eat practically every hour to keep
the nausea away. You have to eat if you get
up to be in the middle of the night. When
the alarm goes off in the morning, the first thing
you do is stuff some food into your mouth before
you even sit up in bed. So now you're constantly
eating with the added fun of gas and constipation. All
of this boils down a bloated uncomfortable to me that
(34:01):
everyone around you think should still be slim and trim
because you're not far enough along for the real baby bump.
It still is, in fact a burrito. A week ago,
my wonderful husband got excited and said, Oh, I think
you have a bump already. I had to say, no, sweetie,
it's just gas. I was nervous about telling people at
work about my pregnancy. I'm a meddaller just in a
(34:24):
steel foundry, which is one of those women in a
man's world kind of jobs, although I feel like that's
beginning to change, is the younger generation step into the workforce.
I have the fortune of having a female boss and
a female HR manager, but most of the people I
interact with on a daily basis are men between the
ages of thirty and sixty Before I shared my pregnancy news,
I felt self conscious about it. But I've discovered that
(34:45):
I work with a great group of guys who all
have their own children and grandchildren and understand the process.
They've been wonderfully supportive. She goes on to say, I've
never been much into the whole celebrity bump watch stuff
because my thought is, oh, that's cool, she's pregnant. She
probably wants some privacy. I sure it, and I move
on with my life. But I have definitely noticed this
trend in the super fun, creative ways to announce your
(35:06):
pregnancy and all the maternity photos with bear tummies. It
makes me feel like that's now what I'm expected to do,
except that my thought is, why would I want an
expensive professional picture of me half naked with a huge tummy?
Am I going to hang that on my wall for
everyone to see? Because that would be awkward. So I
am now learning to let go of what's trendy and
just go with what feels good to me. I think
(35:27):
the attitude of your podcast helps support that kind of
healthy thinking. So thank you, and thank you Aaron, and
thanks to everybody who's written into us mom Stuff at
how Stuff Works dot Com is our email address and
for links to all of our social media as well
as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, head on
over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for
(35:50):
more on this and thousands of other topics. Doesn't how
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