September 22, 2026 • 52 mins
In tonight's Classic episode: It's a match for the ages. Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury, boxing heavyweight champions in their own right, will soon vie for the title of the world's undisputed boxing champion. Irish native and current Dubai resident Daniel Kinahan has a life-long love of boxing -- and, according to Irish authorities, he is the heir to a criminal empire stretching from Dublin to Africa, South America, Southeast Asia and beyond. Recently, Fury set off a firestorm of speculation when he thanked Kinahan for brokering the fight. In today's episode, Ben and Matt dive into the world of Irish organized crime, the sport, science and art of boxing, all to ask: Is there Something They Don't Want You To Know?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow conspiracy realists, it should be no secret by now
that we are fans of boxing. We have talked about
boxing in the past. We've talked about the crime and
corruption and the athleticism that surrounds the origin of this art.
And it really is an art. It's a craft. Guys,
(00:20):
do you remember when we covered this episode back in 2021?
I don't, but I know since then, Matt, you've become
a bit of a boxing aficionado for your own... physical fitness, right?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yes, I am precisely as good at boxing as 158th
of Darren Till.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's for anybody who actually knows any of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
But no, guys, I don't remember a whole hell of
a lot about this one, frankly.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
This is crime, right, Ben? This is organized crime, ultimately.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yes, this is the Kenahan saga. it's a match for
the ages, right? We've got a boxer named Anthony Joshua
and another named Tyson Fury, still a sick name by
any measure. These guys on their own are both heavyweight champions.
And so they're going against each other for the title.
(01:10):
And this introduces us to an heir to a criminal empire,
an Irish native residing in Dubai named Daniel Keneha.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Hell yeah, dude. You also got Mac the Knife in
the mix with this thing. And MTK Global, that's where
Tyson Fury comes in and all the other stuff. This
is a sordid tale, boys. This is maybe wrong of me, guys,
but I get images of Snatch in that famous boxing scene.
You know, where he goes up.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
A real palooka. Yeah. A pikey.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'll stay right here. Oh, well, that's... I wasn't going
to say that, but just the dude who, you know,
gets back up. He just gets rocked a couple times,
gets back up, does a little neck crack, and then
gets knocked again, and then cracks his back, and then
just one knockout punch.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh, baby.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
A caravan?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
How do you want to go blue?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now Or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Noel is on an adventure today.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
They call me Ben. We are joined, as always, with
our super producer, Paul Mission Control Deccant. Most importantly, you
are you, you are here. That makes this Stuff They
Don't Want You To Know. Matt, today's episode is a follow-up.
on an earlier listener mail segment from a few weeks ago?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, it's been a minute.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Years ago? What year is it? Who knows?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I have no idea what's happening, where we are, when
it is. It's all good. We talked about this previously.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah. I went outside yesterday and actually had to go somewhere,
and I felt just like Robin Williams in Jumanji, you know,
when he bursts out and he's here suit.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
He was always here suiting.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
He was. He was very much here suiting an hilarious man.
So in this listener mail segment, you and I learned
about an enormous ongoing controversy concerning the sport and science
of boxing and a person named Daniel Kinahan. Daniel Kinahan
(03:43):
is an Irishman who– currently lives in Dubai. He wants
to be a boxing promoter, and he's got a lot
of influence in the world of boxing, on multiple levels.
The world of what could be described as combat sports,
I think, would be more accurate. He is also widely,
I want to be careful how I say this, he
(04:03):
is widely suspected to be the head of an international
crime ring, sort of like maybe not quite on the
level of Pablo Escobar. who pretty much controlled the country
at one point. But it is like an alternate reality
version of what would happen if Pablo Escobar got into
(04:25):
boxing in a big way. In today's episode, we're taking
a closer look at this story, as well as the
darker side of boxing overall. And yes, folks, we know
what you're thinking. Wait, boxing? Two guys beating the shit
out of each other in a way that can lead
to permanent injury. What could be more wholesome than that?
(04:45):
What do you mean dark side, guys?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
How could there be anything wrong with that sport? Dude,
that's a whole episode, too, talking about the lasting effects
of the sport of boxing in particular. All combat sports,
but boxing in particular due to the nature of the
gloves and the trauma that happens to the head constantly.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
American football as well, I think it was. Did you
work on that video with us about concussions?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I did. I made that video, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
You made that video. Okay, yeah. I think you made
that video and I was just sort of there.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think. You wrote a lot of the stuff that
Jason Hoke, who formerly was head of content here or
head of content at Stuff Media, yeah, he does the voiceover.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
We don't even remember all the stuff we've done anymore.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
No, no.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But it's a serious thing. Concussions alone, but there's all
kinds of other damage that can be done with it.
So there's already a serious danger to it for anyone participating,
but it also appears like there's a serious danger to
people on the periphery and people who are running some
of the show here.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And before we really dive in, we want to make
it clear that We personally understand that there is an art...
to this pursuit. There is a science. This is not,
this is not the episode where Matt and Ben just
dunk on boxing and the sport itself. We're actually, I
(06:25):
think I enjoy watching it and trained just a little
bit with it back in the day. But Matt, you,
you out and out love boxing, right?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Boxing has a very special place in my heart because
my father and I used to watch it together. We
had Showtime and there was, you know, Showtime always would
have special fights, like regular fights that would come on.
We would also, you know, back in the late 90s
when we were hanging out a lot together, we would
watch like Evander Holyfield go up against somebody. We'd watch
(06:56):
the Tyson fight. So yeah, there's a special place in
my heart for it. And I did a lot of like,
you know, karate and stuff when I was a kid.
So I was really into the The like the strikes,
the actual strikes and what does it look like and
how do you avoid and how do you evade? And yeah,
I'm very much into the science of it. And actually, Ben,
(07:17):
you and I have discussed before. This is a little
inside baseball. We have discussed going into some MMA style
training right before the quarantine occurred.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Still very much on. No Krav Maga, though.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, I mean, yeah, we can skip the Krav Maga,
but I'm definitely down to do whatever training you're into, Ben.
And so if you're a gym out there in Atlanta
and you're interested, hey, we want in if it's safe.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Same.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And the reason I should be clear, Matt, I'm not
saying categorically no Krav Maga. I just think we should
work our way up to it. I'm down.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Throw me in the deep end. Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Let's do it. Yeah, and shout out to you for
having Showtime as a kid. Fancy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, baby, we had Showtime.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I thought, as a child, I thought that was for
like sheiks and billionaires. Showtime.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Shoot, I won't even go into Skinamax because we had
that too. I learned a lot from pay for TV stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Has the... I don't know whether there's a statute of
limitations here. So, Paul, take this out, please, if I
am skirting legal lines. But I can't be the only
person who found out how to make those cable disc
scramblers and black boxes, right? That was a whole new
(08:40):
era for me.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I don't know what you're talking about, Ben.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
All right. I know what we're supposed to be talking about.
That's boxing. That's right. Specifically, this controversy. So here are
the facts. Right now, as we record, there is a
fight brewing. Two fights, in fact. The date for these
fights remains unannounced, as does the venue. But the insiders
(09:07):
and those in the know believe it may well end
up being a fight held in the Middle East. There
are two boxers, Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury, who are
doubtlessly going to be familiar to boxing fans in the
audience today. Both of these men are straight-up champions in
their own right. They're legit. And so in this series
(09:29):
of two bouts, the winner will become the first undisputed
heavyweight champion in 20 years, basically.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, and that just has to do with all of
the various.
Organizations like deciding that this is the one person we
are going to crown this one person because there are
numerous organizations that deal with boxing where, you know, you can,
you can win a belt essentially for one organization. Another
person can win a heavyweight champion belt on another organization.
(09:59):
But this is like, the one, the unified.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, exactly. There's kind of a, think of it like
a pyramid shape of different organizations, right? And you fight,
you literally fight your way up to the top. So
now we are at the peak of the pyramid. We're
at the capstone. And this is a, this is a
huge deal. especially for our friends across the pond on
(10:21):
the other side of the Atlantic. Both of these fighters
are from England. And that is why a lot of fans,
a lot of pundits, enthusiasts of the sport are calling
it the biggest fight in British boxing history.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And it is two fights, correct? I believe it's like
they will fight once. Maybe one of them wins. They
get to fight again just in case or, you know,
just to settle the score, at least attempt to. And
that's the one, the second one is like, I mean,
the first one is a huge draw, tons of money involved.
The second one will probably be even bigger.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh, for sure. No matter what the outcome of the
first one is, the world will be watching the second bout.
Just to give you a sense of their championships, Anthony
Joshua is the current WBA, IBF, WO, and IBO champion.
Tyson Fury is the WC and the ring champion. And
(11:21):
our story today really starts with Tyson, I would say,
with Tyson Fury.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Oh, yeah. And let's talk about him. He's a fascinating character. Really,
really fascinating character. We talked about on that previous episode,
just watching his rise to fame and to the championship
matches and everything. He's a really interesting person. But in
June of 2020, this guy, Tyson Fury, He went on Instagram,
(11:47):
I believe, and he publicly thanked a specific person, a
man named Daniel Kinahan, the one we mentioned at the top,
the allegedly Pablo Escobar-style figure, thanked him for his help
and influence in organizing this huge set of fights. And
this simple call-out to a name has led to a
(12:11):
lot of strange things, a lot of revelations, really. about
perhaps this person's involvement in the sport.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, exactly. So side note, quick correction, which I thought
was hilarious and a little bit disorienting for all of us.
In that listener mail segment, we talk about Tyson Fury's moniker, right?
And his kind of like public persona that people have
(12:38):
of him. He has been called the Gypsy King. That's
the name that they've used. And of course, that's a
problematic term, but that's what people call him. And that
led us to conjecture whether or not he was possible
inspiration for Brad Pitt's character in the amazing film Snatch,
(13:00):
which still holds up. And so, Brad, I owe you
a personal apology. Because I said something like, look, he's
an amazing actor. That is true. It had to come
from somewhere, though. So could it have been Tyson Fury? Well,
that is probably not true, unless Fury is even more
badass than we have ever imagined, because he was 12
(13:22):
years old when Snatch came out. And other distressing news,
the disorienting part, Snatch is about 21 years old now,
or will be this year.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And it remains amazing. It is still one of my
favorite movies.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It's so good. So.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But honestly, if you're going to watch Snatch, watch Lockstock
first because it's just as good, if not, I don't know,
if not better. Just put it out there.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
You have to. They've always been a combo meal to me.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You got to see the Guy Ritchie universe. But yes, so.
That's a quick correction on our part. As we said,
time has been a little funny for us recently. But anyhow,
so what's the big deal? Boxers, I would say world-famous
athletes in general, have a ton of friends. They have entourages.
(14:20):
They know a great many people. Well, Kennehan, you see,
is no ordinary boxing promoter. We want to say at
the beginning, he has no convictions at all. He has
a squeaky clean record. If his criminal record were a
(14:40):
kitchen floor, you could eat off of it. There is nothing. However,
he is wanted for questioning in three different places in Europe.
And in 2018, an Irish high court claimed that he is,
in addition to being a fan of boxing... a senior
figure in, quote, organized crime on a global scale. So
(15:05):
furious public shout out there on social media, which would
seem to be like a kind of ephemeral thing. You
know what I mean? It's just a post with your friends.
This led to a lot of controversy and outrage in
the Irish press and in the Irish government.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, it certainly did. And that that group there is
the Kinahan cartel. At least that's how it's referred to
by the Garja and a couple other international crime fighting organizations.
And again, it's, I've got a long history and we can,
we can, we're going to talk about it here in
a moment, but you're right. That, that quick little shout out,
(15:43):
it just had some, it had some effects. The government
in Ireland expressed a lot of, well, it, What's called
outrage in many of the publications, the papers that you'll read,
they're coming out of Ireland. They call it outrage over
Kinahan's role as Fury's advisor, you know, saying things like, again,
it's like just being publicly outraged, right? Like, oh, we
(16:05):
can't believe this is absolutely unacceptable. This is tragic. And
they're warning that the reputation to, you know, boxing, this
thing that we hold so dear in clubs around the
country and around the world, they're going to be sullied.
The reputations are going to be sullied by this association
with a guy who has been known to engage in, quote,
(16:26):
activities which are completely and utterly unacceptable. And it's a
tough thing, like morally, to talk about something like this.
And it's a whole discussion you can get into. Is
boxing as a sport moral? You know, is there a
morality there? Are we talking about, are we getting into
the olden days of gladiators? is that it's often compared
(16:51):
to that when philosophical discussions occur around that sport and
any other combat sport. But the activities, which are completely
and utterly unacceptable, are terrible things. Murders and drug running
and gun smuggling and all kinds of activities. So it's
(17:12):
both weird to think of a country being outraged that
this kind of person is involved with a sport that
has an underbelly of a black market in betting. But
it is true that it is outrageous that those things
are occurring and somebody could be involved.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
It's a good point. It's a good point. There's a
lot of money on the line as well, which, as
we will see, fundamentally alters the equation. You're absolutely right.
It's no secret that boxing has had its share of
unsavory characters and corruption. and real-life conspiracies in the form
(17:50):
of financial shenanigans and fixed bouts aplenty. But, so, again,
what's the big deal about Kinahan? After all, let us
not forget, here in the United States, boxing promoter Don
King once literally stomped a man to death. And it
was his employee, by the way. He stomped, he killed
(18:11):
someone that worked for him. By stepping on them. And
that did not hurt Mike Tyson's career one bit. You
know what I mean? That didn't hurt other people's careers.
And Don King went on to continue working. But Kinahan,
as we will come to find, is a bit of
a different case. We'll tell you why after a word
(18:34):
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Speaker 1 (20:34):
Here's where it gets crazy. All right, let's just ask,
is Daniel Kinahan an Irish Escobar?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Well, to answer that question, Ben, we have to go
all the way back to 1977 when Big Dan, as
he's sometimes called, was born. He's the son of a
man named Christy Kinahan, who is arguably the most interesting
person ever. In this story, and if you want, you
can really research that guy. Fascinating story. Christy Kinahan. That's
(21:00):
his father. Dan, or Daniel, currently resides in the United
Arab Emirates, as far as anyone can guess. Dubai, the
city there that we've discussed before. And this thing called,
it's always referred to as the CAB. Kind of like
the CIA, I guess, in a way, but not really.
More like the FBI. It's Ireland's Criminal Assets Bureau. They
(21:21):
claim that Daniel Kinahan controls and manages this thing that
they refer to as the Kinahan Organized Crime Group. That
sounds very official. The media has dubbed it the Kinahan Cartel.
It's what we've mentioned earlier in this episode. And this cartel,
or this group, they believe to have been founded by
the father of Daniel Kinahan, Christy Kinahan.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Also known as the Dapper Don, at least Christie is,
because of his penchant for Panama hats and cool suits.
So the authorities in Ireland believe that this Kinahan family,
this organization, actively smuggles firearms and drugs into Ireland, the
United Kingdom, and the rest of Europe. It is true
(22:06):
that Christie Kinahan has in the past been convicted, of
crimes related to these sorts of pursuits. But if you
ask the authorities, that didn't stop him from continuing this career.
They believe the Kinahan cartel is huge, with connections ranging
as far afield as the Middle East, where Daniel Kinahan
(22:29):
is now, to Asia, and all the way to South America.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, we're talking Russian involvement, all kinds of countries across
the globe. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Kind of a United Nations of crime. The Irish government
believes that Daniel Kinahan essentially inherited the family banana stand
or whatever reference you want to make. He himself has successfully,
he's in his early forties. He has successfully avoided being
(23:01):
a murdered by rival organizations, which definitely attempted to kill him.
one time famously attempted to kill him.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, publicly.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Publicly. And he has also avoided being thrown in jail.
But despite this, his name is indelibly attached to the
most infamous gang feud in modern Irish history. It's like,
if you are in Ireland, you wake up in Dublin,
you read the morning paper, you see the name Kinahan,
(23:33):
this is the first thing you're going to think about.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
That's right. It's a drug feud. It's called the Hutch-Kinahan feud.
That's at least how it's referred to. And it's a
conflict that is the Kinahan organized crime group or the
cartel versus this thing called the Hutch gang. And there's
a person named Jerry Hutch, G-E-R-R-Y, Hutch, who in particular
(23:55):
is supposed to be the one kind of running the
show in the Hutch family. And there's again, there's a
large organization there. It's not some, you know, small time thing.
And there are many, many shootings, multiple shootings that have
occurred in Dublin and Spain that are very high profile.
There was a death toll so far, at least I
(24:17):
think the count right now is around 20 or more,
but at least 18 to 20 victims, deaths that have
occurred because of this feud. And there's something like 60 arrests.
I think, and honestly, it's weird because a lot of
how this has been playing out ends up in what
they would consider the tabloids in Ireland and other parts
(24:38):
of the United Kingdom. And it's hard to tell what's
fully occurring in the background, maybe that isn't being written
about in the papers.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah. So the Irish reporting, the Irish reporting will stays
on this and the recent events have renewed interest in
the feud, I would say. Irish authorities never stop thinking
about this. And you make a really good point about
what we would consider tabloid papers in the UK reporting
(25:10):
on these events, because, you know, it's got the sensationalist
stuff that is fantastic for readership, right? For ads and
getting attention there. But how accurate are they being versus
how speculative or sensational would be a better word.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And I don't mean to throw any of those publications
under the bus. I would just say from our end
here in the States, it's difficult to maybe parse sometimes what's,
you know, like what's coming out of the publication at
Belfast versus what's coming out of a thing that is
sometimes considered a tabloid.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, exactly. And so the feud that began in 2015,
murder of Gary Hutch was Jerry Hutch's nephew continues today.
The most infamous of these events is probably the Regency
Hotel shooting of 2016, when people who were trying to
(26:06):
assassinate Daniel Kinahan ended up fatally shooting an associate of
the cartel named David Byrne. This is like cinematic. It's
a movie level movie. altercation. People are dressed as law enforcement.
One guy dresses as a woman. Two other people, I think,
(26:27):
get shot. But Byrne is the only fatality. And this
gets a lot of coverage in the news because it's
such a crazy story. And Matt, I love the point
you made. You said, okay, these numbers might be a
little bit tricky because we don't know how much stuff
went on that never made it to the media, right?
(26:49):
Or never made it to the authorities.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And just in this incident, and we did talk about
it before, and Ben, you're doing a great job describing
it there. It's just important to know that it's taking
place at a weigh-in for a boxing match. That's when
this thing goes down. They're in a hotel. You can
see video that's occurring, you know, of the official, the
fighters are up there. Some of them, you know, they've
(27:14):
got their shirts off. They're like posing for the pictures.
And then some sounds start occurring out in the lobby
of the hotel, and people are running for their lives.
There's a harrowing video you can see where there's a
child at one point rushing out of one of these
back entrances just saying, Dad, what was that? Dad, what
was that? And like crying. It's awful to actually watch
(27:37):
some of it.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And you're right. That was the Clash of the Clans,
which was, well, we'll get into why this event happened.
in particular, was a blow to Kinahan's boxing career, which
I think it's fair to call a boxing career. So obviously,
all of this context, all of this background, it is
no surprise that when members of the Irish public read
(27:59):
the name Kinahan in the news, they're way more likely
to think of gangland murders than they are of boxing matches.
At this point, they'll probably think of boxing too, but
it'll be the second thing they think of. Kinahan seemed
set for a number of years to reinvent his image.
(28:21):
Don't think of me as associated with crime. Think of
me as associated with boxing. I want to be a
big player in the world of boxing. And he's been
successful in that regard, especially in the Middle East. Just
last year in 2020, he was appointed as a special
advisor for KHK Sports there in Bahrain. And in May
(28:42):
of last year, he finally spoke to the public. He
issued his first public statement on anything since 2016, since
the events at the Regency Hotel during the Clash of
the Clans.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, he said, It is an honor for me to
work with His Highness Sheikh Khalid bin Hamad Al Khalifa, Mr.
Muhammad Shaleed, and the entire team at KHK Sports. KHK
Sports has made an impressive mark on the world of
combat sports and has fantastic ambitions to grow into a
global powerhouse. I look forward to working with the team
(29:16):
to realize these dreams and further build Bahrain combat sports
into a globally recognized presence. Seems pretty legit. Spiffy.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah. I mean, it's without that context. This is a
pretty innocuous, polished statement. It sounds exactly like what you're
supposed to say when you get a pretty prestigious job
like this. You're an advisor. to someone who is legally
called His Highness?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
That's wild. You know what I mean? That is the
upper echelon right there. But there are opposing opinions about this.
So Kanan's never been convicted, so could you even say
he's quote-unquote turning over a new leaf? Could you say
that this is not legitimate somehow? There are two really
(30:05):
divided camps about this guy. One group absolutely supports him,
including boxers themselves. Reporters have asked plenty of boxers about Kinahan,
and they get these positive answers with people saying things like,
you know, he's a friend of mine. Everybody trusts him.
Everybody respects him. They'll also add he's being unfairly treated.
(30:26):
The press, they say, is out to get him. But
people also praise his connections. And, you know, in his defense,
this is not something that suddenly happened, didn't come out
of the blue. Daniel Kinahan has been into boxing for
years and years and years. In 2012, he set up
a company that was at the time called MGM Boxing.
(30:50):
They're the group that was running the weigh-in at the
Regency in 2016 for their event. The Clash of the Clans,
which I think is a weird historical coincidence, right? That
there would be a clan war at the Clash of
the Clans.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Or at least that was the flashpoint. Yeah, that's interesting.
And that brand, MGM Boxing, and all of the gyms
associated with it, and the promotions, it changed names. And
what is probably, it was definitely a PR move. It
was rebranded as MTK Global. which that MTK stands for
(31:29):
Mac the Knife, by the way. And they cut ties
with its founder, Daniel, Daniel K. At least officially, they
cut ties with the founder. Publicly, they did that. And
this was all an attempt to get rid of the
stigma or to try and avoid the stigma that came
with that Clash of the Clans incident and ensuing gang war.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, exactly. The issue is that that attempt to cut
ties didn't work. as well as they had hoped. And
this stigma with MTK and organized crime still remains. And
now let's go to the other group. The people who
(32:11):
think this guy's definitely like a drug lord and a
crime lord, Irish authorities, a huge swath of the Irish media,
are not buying this boxing promotion narrative. They argue that
despite not ever being convicted of anything, Kinahan took control
of the cartel from his father about five or six
(32:33):
years ago because the Dapper Don wanted to retire, and
that now Daniel Kinahan himself directly controls, plays a leading
role in a cartel that's doing billions of euros of
dollars worth of business across three continents, and all the
while racking up an enormous body count in the process,
(32:54):
which to me means that if any of this is true,
you can say one thing about Kenahan and boxing. He's
not in it for the money, maybe, right? Like, he
doesn't seem like a guy who's really sweating the water bill.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, it's weird, because when you're that close to boxing,
we talked about this before, there's so much money to
be made on the level with a boxing match, right?
With betting that is sanctioned, with the actual winnings, with...
all the money you make at a big event in
person or on pay-per-view, there's a ton of money to
(33:30):
be made up here. And there's so much more money
to be made down here in the off-books betting or
just in the darker side of the betting world. So
he may be in it for the money to run
part of this business, but he doesn't need it personally, right?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
That's the whole point. Yeah, I think I got myself
into a weird spot cognitively because ordinarily... I like it.
I like knowing when someone is not in something purely
for financial gain, because that means on some level they
care about it in a way that cannot be quantified.
And typically that kind of motivation results in better work,
(34:09):
more passion. But yeah, you're absolutely right. You are absolutely right.
And authorities believe that Kinahan's ability to duck the law
so well and so often is comes down to what
they describe as meticulous planning and keeping an absolute minimum
number of people in the know about business ventures.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Dude, and we didn't even really get into Christie's background
too much. Like I said, fascinating read. I think he
learned from the best. That's why if Daniel is in
fact this mob leader, he's good at it because he
learned from his father. His father went to prison for
quite a while and ended up earning two degrees while
(34:51):
he was in prison. He even gave up the opportunity
to leave prison early because he wanted to finish a
degree while he was in there. He allegedly owns hundreds
of millions of dollars worth of properties in many places, allegedly.
I haven't actually seen property deeds or anything like that. But,
you know, we're talking like $ 500 million home in one place,
(35:13):
$ 160 million home in another place. like multiple properties, so
many properties in Ireland. That guy, the father, was very
good at what he was doing, and apparently very good
at hiding money and travel and keeping operations at, yeah,
very secret.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
And he is alive right now as we record. He
is happily retired in Spain, the father, that is. Yes, yeah,
there is. There is a strong indication that I like
the way you put it, that he learned from the best.
And people believe they've cracked the code. Detective Superintendent David
(35:54):
Gallagher from the National Drugs and Organized Crime Bureau of
Ireland walked through the hierarchy of the gang, of the
organization in court. And he said they have this structure.
It's very clever. It's the kind of thing, you know,
you and I would do probably. they have sub cells.
(36:16):
Everybody's organized into these cells and they're structured such that
if an operation goes wrong or if someone tries to
turn into an informant, which Irish media calls turning tout,
by the way, I thought that was so cool. If
someone does try to snitch, they will literally not have
(36:37):
the information they need because they'll only know about their
part of the, of the, Web.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
They're part of the process.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Well, in its structure, if somebody from that sub cell
is seeking information, specific information from higher up, it becomes
an incredibly suspicious thing. And you yeah, it's a way
to root out people who may have turned tout.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yes, it's true. It works both ways. So authorities also
maintain that, yes, the organization's move toward the world of
boxing may be real, legitimate, it actually has happened. But
that doesn't mean that it's also, you know, not still
a crime ring. That's basically their argument. They're making that
(37:25):
face in court that Matt just made. So there you
have it. This story has some updates that we'll get
to at the end of the show. But first, let's
take a break for a word from our sponsor, and
then we'll come back to talk just a little bit
about boxing and crime in general, where there is a
great deal of stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
All right, we are back, and we are jumping into
boxing and crime in general. A little bit of corruption,
a little side of corruption. There's an outlet called journal.ie.
It's actually really great. You should check it out if
you can. There's a lot of cool reporting in there
about boxing, just as the sport and this topic in general.
(38:16):
Here's a quote from them. The sport and business of
boxing has been infiltrated by criminal elements for the best
part of two decades. The potential to earn large amounts
of cash and to rub shoulders with the rich and
famous at ringsides around the world proved alluring for Ireland's
top criminals. Now this makes sense. If you've ever... I'm
(38:38):
going to take it to MMA instead of boxing, but
it's not the same thing, right? From a science perspective,
from the sport itself, but in the events, boxing and
MMA are very, very, very similar. If you look at
something the UFC puts on, a big pay-per-view show, let's
say something that happened not long ago, if Conor McGregor
(39:01):
is fighting, and before, of course, quarantine and all of
the coronavirus implementations where there's nobody in the audience, when
you look at one of these big matches, down at
the front, right near the ring, there are going to
be celebrities and powerful individuals. Many times faceless individuals. Powerful individuals,
those who don't show up in the newspaper all the time.
(39:23):
Don't you don't recognize them when their face flashes across.
But that person in that audience may be extremely powerful.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Powerful yeah absolutely you get access and access is a
extremely valuable thing so to react to that claim what
do we say well Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
The conspiracy is real.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I mean, for numerous reasons, boxing as a sport has
a long association with crime. And it also has just
the way it's structured. It has a great potential to
be exploited and corrupted. I mean, think about it, right?
I still, I always think of when we spoke with
Brian Toohey, boxing in particular, you have a very small
(40:10):
set of what we could think of as players. primarily
the two boxers, but we also have just a few officials, right? And,
you know, a fight can be won based on a
decision by those officials. So if any one of those
people is convinced to take a dive or if they're
bribed to go one way or another with a decision,
(40:33):
then it can be extraordinarily difficult to prove the fight
was fixed, which means if you want to get into
that business... you have two cool sources of revenue now.
You can generate a ton of money through gambling and
rigged outcomes. You can also launder a ton of dirty
money because it's gambling. So what's not to love? It
(40:55):
makes sense to me. I've never fixed a boxing match,
but I can see the appeal for certain people in
the industry. And the weird part about it is for
fans of boxing and boxers themselves, you're probably much better
off now than you were in the 1950s when boxing
was crazy dirty, like the U.S. Senate investigated boxing. There's
(41:20):
a cool site we found called The Ring that has
a neat anecdote that I really think puts this in perspective.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Sure, here it is. The very era that many recall
as one of the sport's true golden ages was was
so brazenly filthy and infested with gangsters and other ne'er-do-wells
that the January 31, 1955 issue of Sports Illustrated concluded
an investigative piece on the state of the sports with
(41:49):
the sentence, Boxing today is a national scandal.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Boxing today is a national scandal. Back in the 1950s.
So we often note the relationship between large amounts of
money and corruption in all Multiple industries, right? And everything
from investment banking to reality TV. The stock market. The
stock market, of course. Even without considering the Kinahan case specifically,
(42:16):
it turns out boxing is no different. And that is
a crying shame because boxers, the actual people, not the
industry surrounding them, are working their keisters off. to be
the best athletes they can possibly be. And as we
said earlier, there's a pretty compelling argument to make that
boxing is as much a science, in some sense, as
(42:38):
it is a sport. But you could say that there
are two fights for every bout. One is the fight
between the people in the ring. And the other is
the fight, the ongoing fight, that legitimate athletes and fans
of the sport have against incredibly powerful forces that seek
to poison the game they love. As we draw to
(43:00):
a close here, you know, Matt, obviously we have to
point out at this juncture, there has been no accusation
that Kinahan himself is attempting to rig this, the world's
most important upcoming boxing match. And in fact, Ireland is
so scandalized by his involvement that no one's really bothered
(43:22):
to float the possibility of him fixing a match or
ask how likely that might be. given statements of industry
professionals and athletes, it seems like people in that industry,
a lot of people overwhelmingly trust him. So there, there
we find kind of the, um, the morality that we
were talking about at the top. You know, it's, I,
(43:43):
I get, I get the sense, I don't know if
you feel this way, but I get the sense that, um,
people believe Kinahan, regardless of what else he does, probably
holds the sport in very high esteem and would react
pretty adversely. I think he would be offended if people said, hey,
you're going to fix this match, right? And he doesn't,
(44:06):
regardless of what you believe, he doesn't seem like the
kind of person you would want to offend.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
No.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
No, just because of his power in the sport, right?
It doesn't matter if he's associated with any organized crime.
His word mean something generally. And again, here's another quote
just when talking about his connections within the sport itself
outside of anything else. Here it is. This is a
(44:32):
source that said, it's harder to find a boxer not
linked to Kinahan than one who is. He dominates the
boxing world and everyone knows it. Daniel Kinahan himself, as
well as the organization that he's allegedly involved with and
the Hutch gang, That is the one at odds with
the Kinahan cartel. It is weird to look at events
(44:56):
and the social media feeds of popular boxers and MMA fighters.
It is weird to see these characters show up in selfies.
They show up in behind the scenes photographs of training.
It does feel like there's a real connection there.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Although....
Speaker 2 (45:15):
If you're not in the Garja, if you're not in
the FBI or whatever, whatever organizations are investigating organized crime
groups like that, it's tough to know whether any of
it is real. Whether just because they're associated in pictures,
just because they're ringside, just because they own a gym,
some organization owns a gym where important fighters train, it
(45:37):
doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's in on the same game.
But the connections and the associations are It's tough to miss.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah. Well said. Well said. And for a deeper look
at the Kinahan case, do check out the excellent BBC
Panorama documentary we talked about earlier. They argue that Kinahan,
regardless of his current associations with past or present companies,
continues to influence individual boxers and players in the industry
(46:11):
on a personal level. Like he's– He is embedded in
this enterprise in such a way that it's very difficult
to take him out of it. Also, recent reports from
March argued that Cadehan might be branching out to soccer, football, for,
(46:32):
of course, the rest of the world, through the actions
of his former company, MTK, but that's kind of sticky because, again,
officially he cut ties. And as the outcry over Fury
and Kinahan's association grew, Fury ended up distancing himself from Kinahan,
with Kinahan's blessing, by the way, the way it's portrayed.
(46:55):
It's got big mafia vibes, the way they talk about it.
It does. But a lot of that might just be
the reporters. That's another part of it. So there we are, folks.
The world of boxing, the world of crime, the saga
of Daniel Kinahan and the Kinahan family. What do you think? Again,
(47:16):
this is a fascinating story for us, but we keep
coming to it back to the fact that, you know,
this guy has never been convicted of anything. You know
what I mean? And do you, is it fair to
judge the son by the sins of the father?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
I don't, I don't know if it is, and I
don't think it is. Uh, but at the same time,
there are dedicated law enforcement officers who, investigators who believe
that this is what's happening. This is the thing. And
there has been a ton of bloodshed associated here, um,
and lives ruined and destroyed. And, you know, that's a
(47:53):
tough situation, but it's really hard too, because as a
fan of, of combat sports, like I want to, I
want to still be able to watch boxing matches and,
and MMA fights and stuff. And, um, it, depending on
how deep this corruption is, maybe I shouldn't want to
do that, but, Dang it if I don't want to
(48:13):
tune in. Dude, ever since The Ultimate Fighter, I can't
get enough of these things. And I don't know why.
I don't know if it's just some deep thing inside
of us as humans that enjoy that. The stakes of
having two people like locked in a cage that have
to battle with each other. Maybe there's just something deep,
(48:36):
deeply in our nature about that, in my nature at least.
I don't want it to go away because it's corrupt.
I don't know. It's a tough one. We'd love to
know what you think about all of that stuff. Agreed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Let us know. People who are familiar with the story,
people who are familiar with the spork. we'd like to
hear from you and we try to make it easy
to find us online.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, that's right. You can find us on Twitter and
Facebook where we are conspiracy stuff on Instagram. We are
conspiracy stuff show. If you want to find us personally, uh,
Ben's got Twitter and Instagram going, I think that's true.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yes. The rumors are true. Uh, you can find me
at Ben Bolin, H S W on Twitter. Uh, the
longtime listeners, you know what HSW means. And, uh, you
can also find me on Instagram where I am named
in a burst of creativity at Ben Bolin, B-O-W-L-I-N. How
(49:29):
about you, Matt? You know, sometimes... Sometimes you tell us
about where to find you online, and then sometimes you don't.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
I know. This time I'm not going to. What I
am going to say, though, is the first time I
ever met the founder of that thing called HSW that
you just mentioned, I was on the set of a
video called How Boxing Works.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
And it was the first time I got to be
DP or run the camera, essentially, be the videographer. On
a set. And it was great. We shot with an actual,
I think he became a champion. When we were shooting
with him, this boxer, he had just won some competition.
I can't remember what it was, but he was incredible. Anyway,
(50:17):
it's a weird thing. First video.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Are we becoming sentimental?
Speaker 2 (50:23):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Elder podcast age? Well, if that's the case, then... Hurry
up and get to us before we expire. Hopefully of natural,
non-boxing related causes. If you don't care for social media,
you can call us directly. We have a phone number.
We're 1-833-STD-WYTK. Three minutes. Those three minutes belong to you.
(50:50):
Tell us whatever is on your mind. We do ask
that you include the following things. Give us your name
or a sick nickname and let us know. We can
use your voice or story on the air. Tell us
what's up. Give us ideas for new episodes. And if
there's something personal that you want to just keep between
(51:13):
you and our team, then that's fine. Just throw it
in at the end. But most importantly, do not censor yourself.
If you have a story that doesn't fit in three minutes...
then tell us the whole thing. Write it out. Send
us an email. We read every email we get. You
can find us, whether you are in the ring or
(51:35):
outside of the ring, at our good old-fashioned email address,
where we are.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow conspiracy realists, it should be no secret by now
that we are fans of boxing. We have talked about
boxing in the past. We've talked about the crime and
corruption and the athleticism that surrounds the origin of this art.
And it really is an art. It's a craft. Guys,
(00:20):
do you remember when we covered this episode back in 2021?
I don't, but I know since then, Matt, you've become
a bit of a boxing aficionado for your own... physical fitness, right?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yes, I am precisely as good at boxing as 158th
of Darren Till.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's for anybody who actually knows any of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
But no, guys, I don't remember a whole hell of
a lot about this one, frankly.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
This is crime, right, Ben? This is organized crime, ultimately.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yes, this is the Kenahan saga. it's a match for
the ages, right? We've got a boxer named Anthony Joshua
and another named Tyson Fury, still a sick name by
any measure. These guys on their own are both heavyweight champions.
And so they're going against each other for the title.
(01:10):
And this introduces us to an heir to a criminal empire,
an Irish native residing in Dubai named Daniel Keneha.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Hell yeah, dude. You also got Mac the Knife in
the mix with this thing. And MTK Global, that's where
Tyson Fury comes in and all the other stuff. This
is a sordid tale, boys. This is maybe wrong of me, guys,
but I get images of Snatch in that famous boxing scene.
You know, where he goes up.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
A real palooka. Yeah. A pikey.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'll stay right here. Oh, well, that's... I wasn't going
to say that, but just the dude who, you know,
gets back up. He just gets rocked a couple times,
gets back up, does a little neck crack, and then
gets knocked again, and then cracks his back, and then
just one knockout punch.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh, baby.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
A caravan?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
How do you want to go blue?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now Or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Noel is on an adventure today.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
They call me Ben. We are joined, as always, with
our super producer, Paul Mission Control Deccant. Most importantly, you
are you, you are here. That makes this Stuff They
Don't Want You To Know. Matt, today's episode is a follow-up.
on an earlier listener mail segment from a few weeks ago?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, it's been a minute.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Years ago? What year is it? Who knows?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I have no idea what's happening, where we are, when
it is. It's all good. We talked about this previously.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah. I went outside yesterday and actually had to go somewhere,
and I felt just like Robin Williams in Jumanji, you know,
when he bursts out and he's here suit.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
He was always here suiting.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
He was. He was very much here suiting an hilarious man.
So in this listener mail segment, you and I learned
about an enormous ongoing controversy concerning the sport and science
of boxing and a person named Daniel Kinahan. Daniel Kinahan
(03:43):
is an Irishman who– currently lives in Dubai. He wants
to be a boxing promoter, and he's got a lot
of influence in the world of boxing, on multiple levels.
The world of what could be described as combat sports,
I think, would be more accurate. He is also widely,
I want to be careful how I say this, he
(04:03):
is widely suspected to be the head of an international
crime ring, sort of like maybe not quite on the
level of Pablo Escobar. who pretty much controlled the country
at one point. But it is like an alternate reality
version of what would happen if Pablo Escobar got into
(04:25):
boxing in a big way. In today's episode, we're taking
a closer look at this story, as well as the
darker side of boxing overall. And yes, folks, we know
what you're thinking. Wait, boxing? Two guys beating the shit
out of each other in a way that can lead
to permanent injury. What could be more wholesome than that?
(04:45):
What do you mean dark side, guys?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
How could there be anything wrong with that sport? Dude,
that's a whole episode, too, talking about the lasting effects
of the sport of boxing in particular. All combat sports,
but boxing in particular due to the nature of the
gloves and the trauma that happens to the head constantly.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
American football as well, I think it was. Did you
work on that video with us about concussions?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I did. I made that video, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
You made that video. Okay, yeah. I think you made
that video and I was just sort of there.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think. You wrote a lot of the stuff that
Jason Hoke, who formerly was head of content here or
head of content at Stuff Media, yeah, he does the voiceover.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
We don't even remember all the stuff we've done anymore.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
No, no.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But it's a serious thing. Concussions alone, but there's all
kinds of other damage that can be done with it.
So there's already a serious danger to it for anyone participating,
but it also appears like there's a serious danger to
people on the periphery and people who are running some
of the show here.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And before we really dive in, we want to make
it clear that We personally understand that there is an art...
to this pursuit. There is a science. This is not,
this is not the episode where Matt and Ben just
dunk on boxing and the sport itself. We're actually, I
(06:25):
think I enjoy watching it and trained just a little
bit with it back in the day. But Matt, you,
you out and out love boxing, right?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Boxing has a very special place in my heart because
my father and I used to watch it together. We
had Showtime and there was, you know, Showtime always would
have special fights, like regular fights that would come on.
We would also, you know, back in the late 90s
when we were hanging out a lot together, we would
watch like Evander Holyfield go up against somebody. We'd watch
(06:56):
the Tyson fight. So yeah, there's a special place in
my heart for it. And I did a lot of like,
you know, karate and stuff when I was a kid.
So I was really into the The like the strikes,
the actual strikes and what does it look like and
how do you avoid and how do you evade? And yeah,
I'm very much into the science of it. And actually, Ben,
(07:17):
you and I have discussed before. This is a little
inside baseball. We have discussed going into some MMA style
training right before the quarantine occurred.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Still very much on. No Krav Maga, though.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, I mean, yeah, we can skip the Krav Maga,
but I'm definitely down to do whatever training you're into, Ben.
And so if you're a gym out there in Atlanta
and you're interested, hey, we want in if it's safe.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Same.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And the reason I should be clear, Matt, I'm not
saying categorically no Krav Maga. I just think we should
work our way up to it. I'm down.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Throw me in the deep end. Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Let's do it. Yeah, and shout out to you for
having Showtime as a kid. Fancy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, baby, we had Showtime.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I thought, as a child, I thought that was for
like sheiks and billionaires. Showtime.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Shoot, I won't even go into Skinamax because we had
that too. I learned a lot from pay for TV stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Has the... I don't know whether there's a statute of
limitations here. So, Paul, take this out, please, if I
am skirting legal lines. But I can't be the only
person who found out how to make those cable disc
scramblers and black boxes, right? That was a whole new
(08:40):
era for me.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I don't know what you're talking about, Ben.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
All right. I know what we're supposed to be talking about.
That's boxing. That's right. Specifically, this controversy. So here are
the facts. Right now, as we record, there is a
fight brewing. Two fights, in fact. The date for these
fights remains unannounced, as does the venue. But the insiders
(09:07):
and those in the know believe it may well end
up being a fight held in the Middle East. There
are two boxers, Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury, who are
doubtlessly going to be familiar to boxing fans in the
audience today. Both of these men are straight-up champions in
their own right. They're legit. And so in this series
(09:29):
of two bouts, the winner will become the first undisputed
heavyweight champion in 20 years, basically.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, and that just has to do with all of
the various.
Organizations like deciding that this is the one person we
are going to crown this one person because there are
numerous organizations that deal with boxing where, you know, you can,
you can win a belt essentially for one organization. Another
person can win a heavyweight champion belt on another organization.
(09:59):
But this is like, the one, the unified.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, exactly. There's kind of a, think of it like
a pyramid shape of different organizations, right? And you fight,
you literally fight your way up to the top. So
now we are at the peak of the pyramid. We're
at the capstone. And this is a, this is a
huge deal. especially for our friends across the pond on
(10:21):
the other side of the Atlantic. Both of these fighters
are from England. And that is why a lot of fans,
a lot of pundits, enthusiasts of the sport are calling
it the biggest fight in British boxing history.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And it is two fights, correct? I believe it's like
they will fight once. Maybe one of them wins. They
get to fight again just in case or, you know,
just to settle the score, at least attempt to. And
that's the one, the second one is like, I mean,
the first one is a huge draw, tons of money involved.
The second one will probably be even bigger.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh, for sure. No matter what the outcome of the
first one is, the world will be watching the second bout.
Just to give you a sense of their championships, Anthony
Joshua is the current WBA, IBF, WO, and IBO champion.
Tyson Fury is the WC and the ring champion. And
(11:21):
our story today really starts with Tyson, I would say,
with Tyson Fury.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Oh, yeah. And let's talk about him. He's a fascinating character. Really,
really fascinating character. We talked about on that previous episode,
just watching his rise to fame and to the championship
matches and everything. He's a really interesting person. But in
June of 2020, this guy, Tyson Fury, He went on Instagram,
(11:47):
I believe, and he publicly thanked a specific person, a
man named Daniel Kinahan, the one we mentioned at the top,
the allegedly Pablo Escobar-style figure, thanked him for his help
and influence in organizing this huge set of fights. And
this simple call-out to a name has led to a
(12:11):
lot of strange things, a lot of revelations, really. about
perhaps this person's involvement in the sport.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, exactly. So side note, quick correction, which I thought
was hilarious and a little bit disorienting for all of us.
In that listener mail segment, we talk about Tyson Fury's moniker, right?
And his kind of like public persona that people have
(12:38):
of him. He has been called the Gypsy King. That's
the name that they've used. And of course, that's a
problematic term, but that's what people call him. And that
led us to conjecture whether or not he was possible
inspiration for Brad Pitt's character in the amazing film Snatch,
(13:00):
which still holds up. And so, Brad, I owe you
a personal apology. Because I said something like, look, he's
an amazing actor. That is true. It had to come
from somewhere, though. So could it have been Tyson Fury? Well,
that is probably not true, unless Fury is even more
badass than we have ever imagined, because he was 12
(13:22):
years old when Snatch came out. And other distressing news,
the disorienting part, Snatch is about 21 years old now,
or will be this year.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And it remains amazing. It is still one of my
favorite movies.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It's so good. So.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But honestly, if you're going to watch Snatch, watch Lockstock
first because it's just as good, if not, I don't know,
if not better. Just put it out there.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
You have to. They've always been a combo meal to me.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You got to see the Guy Ritchie universe. But yes, so.
That's a quick correction on our part. As we said,
time has been a little funny for us recently. But anyhow,
so what's the big deal? Boxers, I would say world-famous
athletes in general, have a ton of friends. They have entourages.
(14:20):
They know a great many people. Well, Kennehan, you see,
is no ordinary boxing promoter. We want to say at
the beginning, he has no convictions at all. He has
a squeaky clean record. If his criminal record were a
(14:40):
kitchen floor, you could eat off of it. There is nothing. However,
he is wanted for questioning in three different places in Europe.
And in 2018, an Irish high court claimed that he is,
in addition to being a fan of boxing... a senior
figure in, quote, organized crime on a global scale. So
(15:05):
furious public shout out there on social media, which would
seem to be like a kind of ephemeral thing. You
know what I mean? It's just a post with your friends.
This led to a lot of controversy and outrage in
the Irish press and in the Irish government.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, it certainly did. And that that group there is
the Kinahan cartel. At least that's how it's referred to
by the Garja and a couple other international crime fighting organizations.
And again, it's, I've got a long history and we can,
we can, we're going to talk about it here in
a moment, but you're right. That, that quick little shout out,
(15:43):
it just had some, it had some effects. The government
in Ireland expressed a lot of, well, it, What's called
outrage in many of the publications, the papers that you'll read,
they're coming out of Ireland. They call it outrage over
Kinahan's role as Fury's advisor, you know, saying things like, again,
it's like just being publicly outraged, right? Like, oh, we
(16:05):
can't believe this is absolutely unacceptable. This is tragic. And
they're warning that the reputation to, you know, boxing, this
thing that we hold so dear in clubs around the
country and around the world, they're going to be sullied.
The reputations are going to be sullied by this association
with a guy who has been known to engage in, quote,
(16:26):
activities which are completely and utterly unacceptable. And it's a
tough thing, like morally, to talk about something like this.
And it's a whole discussion you can get into. Is
boxing as a sport moral? You know, is there a
morality there? Are we talking about, are we getting into
the olden days of gladiators? is that it's often compared
(16:51):
to that when philosophical discussions occur around that sport and
any other combat sport. But the activities, which are completely
and utterly unacceptable, are terrible things. Murders and drug running
and gun smuggling and all kinds of activities. So it's
(17:12):
both weird to think of a country being outraged that
this kind of person is involved with a sport that
has an underbelly of a black market in betting. But
it is true that it is outrageous that those things
are occurring and somebody could be involved.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
It's a good point. It's a good point. There's a
lot of money on the line as well, which, as
we will see, fundamentally alters the equation. You're absolutely right.
It's no secret that boxing has had its share of
unsavory characters and corruption. and real-life conspiracies in the form
(17:50):
of financial shenanigans and fixed bouts aplenty. But, so, again,
what's the big deal about Kinahan? After all, let us
not forget, here in the United States, boxing promoter Don
King once literally stomped a man to death. And it
was his employee, by the way. He stomped, he killed
(18:11):
someone that worked for him. By stepping on them. And
that did not hurt Mike Tyson's career one bit. You
know what I mean? That didn't hurt other people's careers.
And Don King went on to continue working. But Kinahan,
as we will come to find, is a bit of
a different case. We'll tell you why after a word
(18:34):
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(20:19):
investigation by authorities as well as association with organized crime.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
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Speaker 1 (20:34):
Here's where it gets crazy. All right, let's just ask,
is Daniel Kinahan an Irish Escobar?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Well, to answer that question, Ben, we have to go
all the way back to 1977 when Big Dan, as
he's sometimes called, was born. He's the son of a
man named Christy Kinahan, who is arguably the most interesting
person ever. In this story, and if you want, you
can really research that guy. Fascinating story. Christy Kinahan. That's
(21:00):
his father. Dan, or Daniel, currently resides in the United
Arab Emirates, as far as anyone can guess. Dubai, the
city there that we've discussed before. And this thing called,
it's always referred to as the CAB. Kind of like
the CIA, I guess, in a way, but not really.
More like the FBI. It's Ireland's Criminal Assets Bureau. They
(21:21):
claim that Daniel Kinahan controls and manages this thing that
they refer to as the Kinahan Organized Crime Group. That
sounds very official. The media has dubbed it the Kinahan Cartel.
It's what we've mentioned earlier in this episode. And this cartel,
or this group, they believe to have been founded by
the father of Daniel Kinahan, Christy Kinahan.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Also known as the Dapper Don, at least Christie is,
because of his penchant for Panama hats and cool suits.
So the authorities in Ireland believe that this Kinahan family,
this organization, actively smuggles firearms and drugs into Ireland, the
United Kingdom, and the rest of Europe. It is true
(22:06):
that Christie Kinahan has in the past been convicted, of
crimes related to these sorts of pursuits. But if you
ask the authorities, that didn't stop him from continuing this career.
They believe the Kinahan cartel is huge, with connections ranging
as far afield as the Middle East, where Daniel Kinahan
(22:29):
is now, to Asia, and all the way to South America.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, we're talking Russian involvement, all kinds of countries across
the globe. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Kind of a United Nations of crime. The Irish government
believes that Daniel Kinahan essentially inherited the family banana stand
or whatever reference you want to make. He himself has successfully,
he's in his early forties. He has successfully avoided being
(23:01):
a murdered by rival organizations, which definitely attempted to kill him.
one time famously attempted to kill him.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, publicly.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Publicly. And he has also avoided being thrown in jail.
But despite this, his name is indelibly attached to the
most infamous gang feud in modern Irish history. It's like,
if you are in Ireland, you wake up in Dublin,
you read the morning paper, you see the name Kinahan,
(23:33):
this is the first thing you're going to think about.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
That's right. It's a drug feud. It's called the Hutch-Kinahan feud.
That's at least how it's referred to. And it's a
conflict that is the Kinahan organized crime group or the
cartel versus this thing called the Hutch gang. And there's
a person named Jerry Hutch, G-E-R-R-Y, Hutch, who in particular
(23:55):
is supposed to be the one kind of running the
show in the Hutch family. And there's again, there's a
large organization there. It's not some, you know, small time thing.
And there are many, many shootings, multiple shootings that have
occurred in Dublin and Spain that are very high profile.
There was a death toll so far, at least I
(24:17):
think the count right now is around 20 or more,
but at least 18 to 20 victims, deaths that have
occurred because of this feud. And there's something like 60 arrests.
I think, and honestly, it's weird because a lot of
how this has been playing out ends up in what
they would consider the tabloids in Ireland and other parts
(24:38):
of the United Kingdom. And it's hard to tell what's
fully occurring in the background, maybe that isn't being written
about in the papers.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah. So the Irish reporting, the Irish reporting will stays
on this and the recent events have renewed interest in
the feud, I would say. Irish authorities never stop thinking
about this. And you make a really good point about
what we would consider tabloid papers in the UK reporting
(25:10):
on these events, because, you know, it's got the sensationalist
stuff that is fantastic for readership, right? For ads and
getting attention there. But how accurate are they being versus
how speculative or sensational would be a better word.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And I don't mean to throw any of those publications
under the bus. I would just say from our end
here in the States, it's difficult to maybe parse sometimes what's,
you know, like what's coming out of the publication at
Belfast versus what's coming out of a thing that is
sometimes considered a tabloid.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, exactly. And so the feud that began in 2015,
murder of Gary Hutch was Jerry Hutch's nephew continues today.
The most infamous of these events is probably the Regency
Hotel shooting of 2016, when people who were trying to
(26:06):
assassinate Daniel Kinahan ended up fatally shooting an associate of
the cartel named David Byrne. This is like cinematic. It's
a movie level movie. altercation. People are dressed as law enforcement.
One guy dresses as a woman. Two other people, I think,
(26:27):
get shot. But Byrne is the only fatality. And this
gets a lot of coverage in the news because it's
such a crazy story. And Matt, I love the point
you made. You said, okay, these numbers might be a
little bit tricky because we don't know how much stuff
went on that never made it to the media, right?
(26:49):
Or never made it to the authorities.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And just in this incident, and we did talk about
it before, and Ben, you're doing a great job describing
it there. It's just important to know that it's taking
place at a weigh-in for a boxing match. That's when
this thing goes down. They're in a hotel. You can
see video that's occurring, you know, of the official, the
fighters are up there. Some of them, you know, they've
(27:14):
got their shirts off. They're like posing for the pictures.
And then some sounds start occurring out in the lobby
of the hotel, and people are running for their lives.
There's a harrowing video you can see where there's a
child at one point rushing out of one of these
back entrances just saying, Dad, what was that? Dad, what
was that? And like crying. It's awful to actually watch
(27:37):
some of it.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And you're right. That was the Clash of the Clans,
which was, well, we'll get into why this event happened.
in particular, was a blow to Kinahan's boxing career, which
I think it's fair to call a boxing career. So obviously,
all of this context, all of this background, it is
no surprise that when members of the Irish public read
(27:59):
the name Kinahan in the news, they're way more likely
to think of gangland murders than they are of boxing matches.
At this point, they'll probably think of boxing too, but
it'll be the second thing they think of. Kinahan seemed
set for a number of years to reinvent his image.
(28:21):
Don't think of me as associated with crime. Think of
me as associated with boxing. I want to be a
big player in the world of boxing. And he's been
successful in that regard, especially in the Middle East. Just
last year in 2020, he was appointed as a special
advisor for KHK Sports there in Bahrain. And in May
(28:42):
of last year, he finally spoke to the public. He
issued his first public statement on anything since 2016, since
the events at the Regency Hotel during the Clash of
the Clans.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, he said, It is an honor for me to
work with His Highness Sheikh Khalid bin Hamad Al Khalifa, Mr.
Muhammad Shaleed, and the entire team at KHK Sports. KHK
Sports has made an impressive mark on the world of
combat sports and has fantastic ambitions to grow into a
global powerhouse. I look forward to working with the team
(29:16):
to realize these dreams and further build Bahrain combat sports
into a globally recognized presence. Seems pretty legit. Spiffy.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah. I mean, it's without that context. This is a
pretty innocuous, polished statement. It sounds exactly like what you're
supposed to say when you get a pretty prestigious job
like this. You're an advisor. to someone who is legally
called His Highness?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
That's wild. You know what I mean? That is the
upper echelon right there. But there are opposing opinions about this.
So Kanan's never been convicted, so could you even say
he's quote-unquote turning over a new leaf? Could you say
that this is not legitimate somehow? There are two really
(30:05):
divided camps about this guy. One group absolutely supports him,
including boxers themselves. Reporters have asked plenty of boxers about Kinahan,
and they get these positive answers with people saying things like,
you know, he's a friend of mine. Everybody trusts him.
Everybody respects him. They'll also add he's being unfairly treated.
(30:26):
The press, they say, is out to get him. But
people also praise his connections. And, you know, in his defense,
this is not something that suddenly happened, didn't come out
of the blue. Daniel Kinahan has been into boxing for
years and years and years. In 2012, he set up
a company that was at the time called MGM Boxing.
(30:50):
They're the group that was running the weigh-in at the
Regency in 2016 for their event. The Clash of the Clans,
which I think is a weird historical coincidence, right? That
there would be a clan war at the Clash of
the Clans.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Or at least that was the flashpoint. Yeah, that's interesting.
And that brand, MGM Boxing, and all of the gyms
associated with it, and the promotions, it changed names. And
what is probably, it was definitely a PR move. It
was rebranded as MTK Global. which that MTK stands for
(31:29):
Mac the Knife, by the way. And they cut ties
with its founder, Daniel, Daniel K. At least officially, they
cut ties with the founder. Publicly, they did that. And
this was all an attempt to get rid of the
stigma or to try and avoid the stigma that came
with that Clash of the Clans incident and ensuing gang war.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, exactly. The issue is that that attempt to cut
ties didn't work. as well as they had hoped. And
this stigma with MTK and organized crime still remains. And
now let's go to the other group. The people who
(32:11):
think this guy's definitely like a drug lord and a
crime lord, Irish authorities, a huge swath of the Irish media,
are not buying this boxing promotion narrative. They argue that
despite not ever being convicted of anything, Kinahan took control
of the cartel from his father about five or six
(32:33):
years ago because the Dapper Don wanted to retire, and
that now Daniel Kinahan himself directly controls, plays a leading
role in a cartel that's doing billions of euros of
dollars worth of business across three continents, and all the
while racking up an enormous body count in the process,
(32:54):
which to me means that if any of this is true,
you can say one thing about Kenahan and boxing. He's
not in it for the money, maybe, right? Like, he
doesn't seem like a guy who's really sweating the water bill.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, it's weird, because when you're that close to boxing,
we talked about this before, there's so much money to
be made on the level with a boxing match, right?
With betting that is sanctioned, with the actual winnings, with...
all the money you make at a big event in
person or on pay-per-view, there's a ton of money to
(33:30):
be made up here. And there's so much more money
to be made down here in the off-books betting or
just in the darker side of the betting world. So
he may be in it for the money to run
part of this business, but he doesn't need it personally, right?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
That's the whole point. Yeah, I think I got myself
into a weird spot cognitively because ordinarily... I like it.
I like knowing when someone is not in something purely
for financial gain, because that means on some level they
care about it in a way that cannot be quantified.
And typically that kind of motivation results in better work,
(34:09):
more passion. But yeah, you're absolutely right. You are absolutely right.
And authorities believe that Kinahan's ability to duck the law
so well and so often is comes down to what
they describe as meticulous planning and keeping an absolute minimum
number of people in the know about business ventures.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Dude, and we didn't even really get into Christie's background
too much. Like I said, fascinating read. I think he
learned from the best. That's why if Daniel is in
fact this mob leader, he's good at it because he
learned from his father. His father went to prison for
quite a while and ended up earning two degrees while
(34:51):
he was in prison. He even gave up the opportunity
to leave prison early because he wanted to finish a
degree while he was in there. He allegedly owns hundreds
of millions of dollars worth of properties in many places, allegedly.
I haven't actually seen property deeds or anything like that. But,
you know, we're talking like $ 500 million home in one place,
(35:13):
$ 160 million home in another place. like multiple properties, so
many properties in Ireland. That guy, the father, was very
good at what he was doing, and apparently very good
at hiding money and travel and keeping operations at, yeah,
very secret.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
And he is alive right now as we record. He
is happily retired in Spain, the father, that is. Yes, yeah,
there is. There is a strong indication that I like
the way you put it, that he learned from the best.
And people believe they've cracked the code. Detective Superintendent David
(35:54):
Gallagher from the National Drugs and Organized Crime Bureau of
Ireland walked through the hierarchy of the gang, of the
organization in court. And he said they have this structure.
It's very clever. It's the kind of thing, you know,
you and I would do probably. they have sub cells.
(36:16):
Everybody's organized into these cells and they're structured such that
if an operation goes wrong or if someone tries to
turn into an informant, which Irish media calls turning tout,
by the way, I thought that was so cool. If
someone does try to snitch, they will literally not have
(36:37):
the information they need because they'll only know about their
part of the, of the, Web.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
They're part of the process.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Well, in its structure, if somebody from that sub cell
is seeking information, specific information from higher up, it becomes
an incredibly suspicious thing. And you yeah, it's a way
to root out people who may have turned tout.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yes, it's true. It works both ways. So authorities also
maintain that, yes, the organization's move toward the world of
boxing may be real, legitimate, it actually has happened. But
that doesn't mean that it's also, you know, not still
a crime ring. That's basically their argument. They're making that
(37:25):
face in court that Matt just made. So there you
have it. This story has some updates that we'll get
to at the end of the show. But first, let's
take a break for a word from our sponsor, and
then we'll come back to talk just a little bit
about boxing and crime in general, where there is a
great deal of stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
All right, we are back, and we are jumping into
boxing and crime in general. A little bit of corruption,
a little side of corruption. There's an outlet called journal.ie.
It's actually really great. You should check it out if
you can. There's a lot of cool reporting in there
about boxing, just as the sport and this topic in general.
(38:16):
Here's a quote from them. The sport and business of
boxing has been infiltrated by criminal elements for the best
part of two decades. The potential to earn large amounts
of cash and to rub shoulders with the rich and
famous at ringsides around the world proved alluring for Ireland's
top criminals. Now this makes sense. If you've ever... I'm
(38:38):
going to take it to MMA instead of boxing, but
it's not the same thing, right? From a science perspective,
from the sport itself, but in the events, boxing and
MMA are very, very, very similar. If you look at
something the UFC puts on, a big pay-per-view show, let's
say something that happened not long ago, if Conor McGregor
(39:01):
is fighting, and before, of course, quarantine and all of
the coronavirus implementations where there's nobody in the audience, when
you look at one of these big matches, down at
the front, right near the ring, there are going to
be celebrities and powerful individuals. Many times faceless individuals. Powerful individuals,
those who don't show up in the newspaper all the time.
(39:23):
Don't you don't recognize them when their face flashes across.
But that person in that audience may be extremely powerful.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Powerful yeah absolutely you get access and access is a
extremely valuable thing so to react to that claim what
do we say well Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
The conspiracy is real.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I mean, for numerous reasons, boxing as a sport has
a long association with crime. And it also has just
the way it's structured. It has a great potential to
be exploited and corrupted. I mean, think about it, right?
I still, I always think of when we spoke with
Brian Toohey, boxing in particular, you have a very small
(40:10):
set of what we could think of as players. primarily
the two boxers, but we also have just a few officials, right? And,
you know, a fight can be won based on a
decision by those officials. So if any one of those
people is convinced to take a dive or if they're
bribed to go one way or another with a decision,
(40:33):
then it can be extraordinarily difficult to prove the fight
was fixed, which means if you want to get into
that business... you have two cool sources of revenue now.
You can generate a ton of money through gambling and
rigged outcomes. You can also launder a ton of dirty
money because it's gambling. So what's not to love? It
(40:55):
makes sense to me. I've never fixed a boxing match,
but I can see the appeal for certain people in
the industry. And the weird part about it is for
fans of boxing and boxers themselves, you're probably much better
off now than you were in the 1950s when boxing
was crazy dirty, like the U.S. Senate investigated boxing. There's
(41:20):
a cool site we found called The Ring that has
a neat anecdote that I really think puts this in perspective.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Sure, here it is. The very era that many recall
as one of the sport's true golden ages was was
so brazenly filthy and infested with gangsters and other ne'er-do-wells
that the January 31, 1955 issue of Sports Illustrated concluded
an investigative piece on the state of the sports with
(41:49):
the sentence, Boxing today is a national scandal.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Boxing today is a national scandal. Back in the 1950s.
So we often note the relationship between large amounts of
money and corruption in all Multiple industries, right? And everything
from investment banking to reality TV. The stock market. The
stock market, of course. Even without considering the Kinahan case specifically,
(42:16):
it turns out boxing is no different. And that is
a crying shame because boxers, the actual people, not the
industry surrounding them, are working their keisters off. to be
the best athletes they can possibly be. And as we
said earlier, there's a pretty compelling argument to make that
boxing is as much a science, in some sense, as
(42:38):
it is a sport. But you could say that there
are two fights for every bout. One is the fight
between the people in the ring. And the other is
the fight, the ongoing fight, that legitimate athletes and fans
of the sport have against incredibly powerful forces that seek
to poison the game they love. As we draw to
(43:00):
a close here, you know, Matt, obviously we have to
point out at this juncture, there has been no accusation
that Kinahan himself is attempting to rig this, the world's
most important upcoming boxing match. And in fact, Ireland is
so scandalized by his involvement that no one's really bothered
(43:22):
to float the possibility of him fixing a match or
ask how likely that might be. given statements of industry
professionals and athletes, it seems like people in that industry,
a lot of people overwhelmingly trust him. So there, there
we find kind of the, um, the morality that we
were talking about at the top. You know, it's, I,
(43:43):
I get, I get the sense, I don't know if
you feel this way, but I get the sense that, um,
people believe Kinahan, regardless of what else he does, probably
holds the sport in very high esteem and would react
pretty adversely. I think he would be offended if people said, hey,
you're going to fix this match, right? And he doesn't,
(44:06):
regardless of what you believe, he doesn't seem like the
kind of person you would want to offend.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
No.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
No, just because of his power in the sport, right?
It doesn't matter if he's associated with any organized crime.
His word mean something generally. And again, here's another quote
just when talking about his connections within the sport itself
outside of anything else. Here it is. This is a
(44:32):
source that said, it's harder to find a boxer not
linked to Kinahan than one who is. He dominates the
boxing world and everyone knows it. Daniel Kinahan himself, as
well as the organization that he's allegedly involved with and
the Hutch gang, That is the one at odds with
the Kinahan cartel. It is weird to look at events
(44:56):
and the social media feeds of popular boxers and MMA fighters.
It is weird to see these characters show up in selfies.
They show up in behind the scenes photographs of training.
It does feel like there's a real connection there.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Although....
Speaker 2 (45:15):
If you're not in the Garja, if you're not in
the FBI or whatever, whatever organizations are investigating organized crime
groups like that, it's tough to know whether any of
it is real. Whether just because they're associated in pictures,
just because they're ringside, just because they own a gym,
some organization owns a gym where important fighters train, it
(45:37):
doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's in on the same game.
But the connections and the associations are It's tough to miss.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah. Well said. Well said. And for a deeper look
at the Kinahan case, do check out the excellent BBC
Panorama documentary we talked about earlier. They argue that Kinahan,
regardless of his current associations with past or present companies,
continues to influence individual boxers and players in the industry
(46:11):
on a personal level. Like he's– He is embedded in
this enterprise in such a way that it's very difficult
to take him out of it. Also, recent reports from
March argued that Cadehan might be branching out to soccer, football, for,
(46:32):
of course, the rest of the world, through the actions
of his former company, MTK, but that's kind of sticky because, again,
officially he cut ties. And as the outcry over Fury
and Kinahan's association grew, Fury ended up distancing himself from Kinahan,
with Kinahan's blessing, by the way, the way it's portrayed.
(46:55):
It's got big mafia vibes, the way they talk about it.
It does. But a lot of that might just be
the reporters. That's another part of it. So there we are, folks.
The world of boxing, the world of crime, the saga
of Daniel Kinahan and the Kinahan family. What do you think? Again,
(47:16):
this is a fascinating story for us, but we keep
coming to it back to the fact that, you know,
this guy has never been convicted of anything. You know
what I mean? And do you, is it fair to
judge the son by the sins of the father?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
I don't, I don't know if it is, and I
don't think it is. Uh, but at the same time,
there are dedicated law enforcement officers who, investigators who believe
that this is what's happening. This is the thing. And
there has been a ton of bloodshed associated here, um,
and lives ruined and destroyed. And, you know, that's a
(47:53):
tough situation, but it's really hard too, because as a
fan of, of combat sports, like I want to, I
want to still be able to watch boxing matches and,
and MMA fights and stuff. And, um, it, depending on
how deep this corruption is, maybe I shouldn't want to
do that, but, Dang it if I don't want to
(48:13):
tune in. Dude, ever since The Ultimate Fighter, I can't
get enough of these things. And I don't know why.
I don't know if it's just some deep thing inside
of us as humans that enjoy that. The stakes of
having two people like locked in a cage that have
to battle with each other. Maybe there's just something deep,
(48:36):
deeply in our nature about that, in my nature at least.
I don't want it to go away because it's corrupt.
I don't know. It's a tough one. We'd love to
know what you think about all of that stuff. Agreed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Let us know. People who are familiar with the story,
people who are familiar with the spork. we'd like to
hear from you and we try to make it easy
to find us online.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, that's right. You can find us on Twitter and
Facebook where we are conspiracy stuff on Instagram. We are
conspiracy stuff show. If you want to find us personally, uh,
Ben's got Twitter and Instagram going, I think that's true.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yes. The rumors are true. Uh, you can find me
at Ben Bolin, H S W on Twitter. Uh, the
longtime listeners, you know what HSW means. And, uh, you
can also find me on Instagram where I am named
in a burst of creativity at Ben Bolin, B-O-W-L-I-N. How
(49:29):
about you, Matt? You know, sometimes... Sometimes you tell us
about where to find you online, and then sometimes you don't.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
I know. This time I'm not going to. What I
am going to say, though, is the first time I
ever met the founder of that thing called HSW that
you just mentioned, I was on the set of a
video called How Boxing Works.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
And it was the first time I got to be
DP or run the camera, essentially, be the videographer. On
a set. And it was great. We shot with an actual,
I think he became a champion. When we were shooting
with him, this boxer, he had just won some competition.
I can't remember what it was, but he was incredible. Anyway,
(50:17):
it's a weird thing. First video.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Are we becoming sentimental?
Speaker 2 (50:23):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Elder podcast age? Well, if that's the case, then... Hurry
up and get to us before we expire. Hopefully of natural,
non-boxing related causes. If you don't care for social media,
you can call us directly. We have a phone number.
We're 1-833-STD-WYTK. Three minutes. Those three minutes belong to you.
(50:50):
Tell us whatever is on your mind. We do ask
that you include the following things. Give us your name
or a sick nickname and let us know. We can
use your voice or story on the air. Tell us
what's up. Give us ideas for new episodes. And if
there's something personal that you want to just keep between
(51:13):
you and our team, then that's fine. Just throw it
in at the end. But most importantly, do not censor yourself.
If you have a story that doesn't fit in three minutes...
then tell us the whole thing. Write it out. Send
us an email. We read every email we get. You
can find us, whether you are in the ring or
(51:35):
outside of the ring, at our good old-fashioned email address,
where we are.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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