June 16, 2026 • 51 mins
Inspired by a listener mail, the guys explore an enduring, disturbing mystery from across the Atlantic: Between 1993 and the late 1990s, multiple women disappeared in an 80-mile area outside Dublin, which came to be known as the "Vanishing Triangle." But what led to these disappearances? Could one or more of them be connected? Tune in to learn more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow conspiracy realist. We are inspired by a listener mail
back in twenty twenty one and enduring disturbing mystery across
the Atlantic. We've always heard of the Bermuda Triangle. We
have a banger episode on that live with our friends
of Virgin Voyage, but I don't think we as a
group ever encountered Ireland's Vanishing Triangle until we heard from
(00:24):
this conspiracy realist.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Mm hmmm, yeah, real history mystery. The Vanishing Triangle led
to some mysterious disappearances, but what could have caused them?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Let's find out.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nolah.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. Student listeners, you'll notice that in
our strange news and listener mail segments, we will occasionally
(01:28):
note a topic that bears further investigation, and to be candid,
you know, we work assiduously not to accidentally turn those
segments into, you know, a full episode, but we do
keep notes. We're not just blowing smoke when we say
we're going to follow up on something. And that brings
(01:48):
us to today's episode. In a previous listener mail segment,
we learned of Ireland's Vanishing Triangle. So thanks again to
Kira for alerting us to this troubling tale. Today will
be exploring a series of as of yet unexplained disappearances
that have haunted the nation of Ireland for decades. These
(02:12):
cases remain unsolved today. Here are the facts. I guess
we should start with, what is the Vanishing Triangle? There
are always there's so many triangles, you know. There's like
the Bermuda Triangle exactly right.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Your mind immediately conjures like some sort of mysterious vortex
in the middle of the sea where ships get sucked
down into the great Beyond.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
This is different.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
This is a geographical triangle that is very much on land.
But the Vanishing Triangle specifically refers to a series of
mysterious and as of yet unsolved disappearances in Ireland. That
took place in the mid to late nineties, specifically between
nineteen ninety three and ninety eight. As you'll find out
in the episode, this is a very kind of small
(03:01):
geographical location, so it really has taken on kind of
a life of its own in the I guess lore
of the of the region. So there is an unofficial
list of disappearances that includes eight women ranging in age
from seventeen to thirty nine at the time of their disappearance.
So why is it called a triangle?
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Well, everyone who's listening, you know that people have gone
missing in Ireland prior to that date in nineteen ninety three,
and people have gone missing after that date in nineteen
ninety eight. This is specifically looking at a set of
eight women who who ranged in ages, so we're looking
(03:40):
at younger women around seventeen or seventeen all the way
up to women who were thirty nine at the time
when they went missing. And it really it's a triangle
because it's just looking at the places where these women
were last seen. Really, that's where we're focusing on. That's
why it's a triangle.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And part of this goes to the editorial choice of
various Irish media outlets. They used the phrase, and this
is not a ding on them. It is common and
some people may even argue necessary for news organizations to
(04:19):
find an umbrella phrase that encapsulates a series of events, people, places,
or things. So the reason they chose this phrase is because,
as we said, all these disappearances take place in the
same rough area. If you pull up a map of
Ireland now you're looking at it, you'll see that you'll
(04:41):
see pay attention to the east coast, you'll see the
capital Dublin, and then if you look up, if you
sort of let your eyes wander up the coast, you'll
see Dundalk, and then if you let your eyes wander
all the way down you'll see Wexford also there on
the coast. And the way people usually think of this is,
as you said, Matt, based on where these individuals were
(05:05):
last seen. The furthest Inland is kind of the point
of our triangle here. That is the disappearance of Fiona
Pender from Tullamore, which we'll get into the stories of
these individuals at this point. But as you mentioned, this
(05:27):
encompasses a lot of stuff urban areas, rural areas, the
Wicklow Mountains, and we're not talking about a huge region.
If for example, you wanted to drive from Wexford there
in the south to Dublin, it would take you about
two hours, so it's not you know, it's not the
(05:48):
best commute, but there are people who could live in
Wexford and go to work in Dublin every day. There
are worst commutes even here in the States. So at
this point we need to talk about the sequence of events,
the circumstances of these individuals, and keep in mind, keep
in mind what we said earlier. I love the point
(06:09):
you made. Met There obviously were people who went missing
before nineteen ninety three and people who went missing after
nineteen ninety eight. But the eight people we will introduce
you to today have never been found, no bodily trace,
no allegations that they contacted someone years later. They simply
(06:34):
seem to have disappeared the very first disappearance. Each of
these has unique, distinct aspects, right, and we can't. I
think it's probably best to treat each one as a
unique case before we try to connect them all other
than with those three commonalities, all women, all disappearing in
(06:59):
this Eastern of Ireland area, and all still missing today.
First disappearance, Annie McCarrick went missing on March twenty sixth,
nineteen ninety three. She was not from Ireland.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
No, she wasn't, but she was of Irish descent or
you know, at least had Irish roots, Irish blood, and
was very, very interested in exploring that on a solo
trip to Ireland. She was from Long Island, New York,
and at the time of her disappearance was living in
Sandy Mount, which is a coastal suburb of Dublin. She
(07:38):
was twenty six. She was last seen in the Wicklow
town of Enniscary and is.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Presumed to be dead.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And it's interesting too because she was she she went
to Ireland by herself. She's clearly someone who was very
let's say, self possessed and had kind of drive because
she wanted to explore this part of her, you know, heritage,
and she didn't have any friends, and she was known
to be pretty outspoken and good at you know, kind
(08:07):
of never met a stranger type person, you know.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah, And with her disappearance, she was a bit far
from where she lives in Sandy Mount, where we discussed
that's where she was residing at least while she was
in Ireland. She was seen at a post office down
in I think it's what do we say in the
scary and she may or may not have been seen
at a place called Johnny Fox's Pub, which is a
(08:33):
bit further away from that area. And we tried, we
just so everyone knows, we attempted to make a Google
Earth map of all these disappearances and we're going to
continue working on that after this episode, but you can
it's interesting to see how far some people traveled on
the day or night that they disappeared, how.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Far they are they are believed to have traveled exactly.
We very quickly get into situations where investigators have to
question the credibility of some witnesses, and you know, in
defense of many of the witnesses evolved people will tend
to be honest when they say I saw something, I
(09:15):
saw someone I cannot confirm. But you're right with the
distances because it was a dark, wet night during the
time of McCarrick's disappearance, and it seems odd that she
would have walked what is it six kilometers a distance
(09:37):
through that weather, you know, but that seems to be
the case. She was, as we said, never seen again. However,
stay tuned because at the end of this episode we
do have some updates that may interest you. Almost breaking news.
Just a few months later, on July twenty fifth, nineteen
(10:01):
ninety three, Eva Brennan from Rathgarn disappears. She was thirty
nine at the time of the disappearance and she was
last she was last seen leaving her parents' house. She
had gone over there and grabbed lunch with the family.
Interesting part of this case, despite the disappearance of Mcareck
(10:24):
just a few months earlier, the GUARDA did not investigate.
The authorities here did not investigate Brennan's disappearance for at
least three months.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, it was definitely a bit weird there that they
didn't do that.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
The problems, to my understanding, is that she was an
adult and there was no sign of any kind of
you know, break in at the house or any kind
of foul play. At least initially, there was nothing that
would speak to her disappearing for any reason other than.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
She just left.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
And that's at least according to the authorities, that was
why there was no investigation for that amount of time.
But of course, as the family, knowing that your loved
one is gone and this is not normal for them.
That is excruciating and I can't imagine what that family
must have gone through.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, and you hit the nail on the head there,
because again it's not The process of investigation moves differently
if we're talking about a thirteen year old person versus
a thirty nine year old person. So fast forward a
little less than a year. January third, nineteen ninety four,
(11:38):
twenty two year old Amelda Keenan disappears. She is from
Mount Melick or Mount Melick, so there are a couple
multiple witnesses who saw her walking. She was last seen
crossing the road at a corner of the place called
the Tower Hotel in Lombard Street. This was mid afternoon.
(11:58):
This wasn't in the middle of the night. She had
left her apartment around one thirty pm.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
I believe that's correct.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Another really strange thing because she's you know, we said,
she's from what was it, Mount Mellick, which is quite
a distance away from where she was staying with her boyfriend.
Think at the time her boyfriend's name was Mark Wall
and she was living her place of residence was very
close to where she was last seen. There by the
Tower Hotel. Just a weird situation the middle of the
(12:27):
day and then she's gone.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Then we have a Josephine Dullard Jojo to her friends,
who disappeared on November ninth, nineteen ninety five, at the
age of twenty one. She was living in Harold's Cross
and disappeared while hitchhiking home from Dublin. And if I'm
not mistaken, she was a waitress at a at a
nearby restaurant and had some card trouble I believe, and
(12:53):
last was seen using a payphone. Police pulled the phone
wreckers and found that she called her friend Mary cullinan
at eleven thirty seven and end of the call just
as she was about to enter this other car, the
driver of which remains unidentified.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
And with JoJo's case, there are conflicting witness stories, kind
of as we mentioned with Annie's case, there's it's tough
to know who's telling the truth, who actually saw Jojo
get into or get out of a car, because there
were a few other witnesses that came forward, and there
are also some kind of strange reports and I don't
know what to believe or not, because you know, I'm
(13:30):
looking at sources like the Mirror dot co dot UK
or the Mirror Irish, the Irish Mirror, I guess, and
it's just tough to know what's real or what's not.
But there are some stories in there about her possibly
getting into a car with two men and maybe not.
And there's even a story in the said mirror that
(13:51):
we can talk about later about a Garda member that
maybe knew the identity of her killer but was unable
to come forward with it.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Is this the one where there was also a story of.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Someone seeing her like get out of the car and
like under duress and like runs kind of from the scene,
because I know one of these there was an account
of someone witnessing one of these women like actually very
violently exiting a car and then running away.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
You know, honestly, I can't remember if that was Jojo
or not. And it's also a little bit hard to
discern what is hearsaying what's been kind of built into
some of the folklore of these stories over the years, because.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It's very fine.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
You can find videos online of people talking about this,
and the story seemed to evolve outside of what reporting exists.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, there are a lot of twists again. Each of
these cases is as distinct as a fingerprint, and like
the driver of that car, Billard has also never been found.
Fast forward February thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
CR.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Breen from Dundalk disappears at the age of seventeen. This
is different from some of the other cases because she
was at her mother's house. Her mother is named Bernadette,
and they went to sleep and according to the mother's
(15:17):
statement to authorities, she awoke a little bit north of
two am and decided to use the restroom, and when
she did, she found her daughter missing and a window
propped open. This led her to believe that her daughter
had stuck out with the intention of coming back, and
there's been speculation that she was actually sneaking away because
(15:40):
she had a boyfriend that she didn't think her parents
would approve of. Further speculation that this boyfriend may have
himself been married. But in either case, that was the
last trace of her, and.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
We don't have to get into it right now, but
there was a primary suspect in that case that ends
up being kind of important and connecting to some other things.
But then the leads, you know, don't really appear to
go anywhere. We can jump into that later, and like
you said, Ben, she is still missing. So then lets
go to the next person that went missing. Fiona Pender.
(16:18):
She was from Tullamore and she went missing on August
twenty third, nineteen ninety six. She was twenty five years
old and unfortunately and terribly, she was seven months pregnant
when she went missing. That's pretty rough. The last confirmed
sighting of her was by her boyfriend, a man named
John Thompson, and her boyfriend saw her leave the apartment
(16:42):
that they shared together. And there's something a bit strange
with this case. Ben, you've found this as well as I.
Something happened in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yes, yeah, over at the sleeve Bloom Way, which is
at the border of Awfully and forgive our pronunciation here, folks,
Lois Laus Laois. At that border on the sleeve Bloom Way,
people found a small wooden cross with the name Fiona
(17:16):
Pender on it, and this naturally led some people to
believe that Pender was buried somewhere in the sleeve Bloom Mountains.
There's much more to each of these stories. Again, we're
just establishing the bare bones facts here. So the seventh
individual grouped in the vanishing triangle is one Fiona Sitance.
(17:40):
She disappeared on February eighth, nineteen ninety eight. She was
from Rosslare, but she was living in Broadway at the time.
She was last publicly seen leaving a place called Butler's
Pub with a guy named Sean Carroll, who was her
ex boyfriend and the father of her then eleven month
(18:02):
old daughter. The authorities, of course, spoke to Sean Carol
at length, and we know his rough account of the
events of the night, but we should also note that
he was not Just to be clear, he was not
accused of having a hand in the disappearance. So here's
(18:23):
what Carol tells them. He said that he was with
sinnat at Butler's Pub. They left, he walked with her
back to her house and he slept on the couch,
and she said she had been complaining of some pain
in her upper body, in her arms, and so she said, look,
I'm just going to go to bed straight away, call
(18:45):
it a night. And then, according again to his account,
on the next day, Monday, February ninth, he walked into
her bedroom and he found her awake. She said she
was still hurting and she wanted to hitchhike take Awrye
to see a doctor later in the day. He says
that she had no money on her so he gave
(19:07):
her three pounds I think, yeah, and that was it
and then she was gone and we we you know,
it's terrible.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Because we only have the story of her boyfriend at
the time.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
It's just.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Her ex boyfriend I guess, and the father of her child.
So you know, obviously for authorities, he's going to be
suspect number one. To our knowledge, he was never formally
charged with anything dealing with Fiona's disappearance. But there's still
some weird stuff because there's discrepancies in the story here.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
There were several there was no evidence that she'd either
gone to the doctor or hitchike at all. Also, her
house had been seemingly, you know, kind of rolled stripped
of notable personal belongings. There is a retired detective sergeant
named Alan Bailey who said that there was a quote
(20:06):
complete absence of clothing and other personal items, indicating that
a teenage girl and her eleven month old daughter were
actually living there, so not necessarily looking not necessarily the
appearance that those things had been removed, more so the
appearance that they never were there to begin with. And
then the news started to spread of disappearance. A local
(20:29):
farmer came out to authorities with the news that he
discovered a number of black Duffel bags in the corner
of one of his fields and they had some pretty
interesting and damning contents.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
And just want to remind everybody here we mentioned just
a moment ago that there's no indication that a teenage
girl lived there or you know, a child, a baby.
We should just note here that Fiona was only nineteen
at the time she disappeared.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And back to this farmer, he tells investigators that he
found these these a number of black bags, and inside
these bags he found items and documents that had be
Ona's name written upon them. So this is smoking gun evidence, right,
(21:19):
This is something that builds a serious case if it
still existed, because you see, unfortunately, the farmer said that
he had burned these bags before he realized how important
they were. He thought this was he had another case
of illegal dumping, right. He thought there were just people
who were littering or purging their house and just throwing
(21:40):
it to the wayside, which is a shame that words
have a tough time really articulating, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
That's weird from all angles. Ugh, I just want to
be an investigator on the ground there. You're like, oh really, okay,
you burned them all?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Interesting?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Okay, cool? Oh really so you were slept on the couch.
I just want to interrogate everybody. Ben, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So our last one here, eighteen year old dear Dred Jacob.
She is home. She was in London at the time,
but she had traveled home to Newbridge for the summer,
and on July twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, she disappears
in an enormously tragic way. She is just she is
(22:26):
like on the way to her parents' house. She's very
close to her parents' house. Multiple witnesses in cars saw
her within yards of her parents' driveway, and she never
made it, and no one knows what happened, or no
(22:47):
one has come forward with knowledge of what happened. Like
the other seven individuals, she too seems to have disappeared.
So some people have included additional disappearances as part of
a larger pattern here. But you'll find that most official
inquiries now list these eight individuals as there the core
(23:09):
people in question, and in the decades following, a multitude
of authorities, journalists, authors, and more have searched for answers
to these haunting questions. Should be no surprise that theories abound.
So what happened? We'll explore that after a word from
(23:30):
our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Now, keep behind
the curtain, as we sometimes say, the three of us,
we're working over time to make sure we were just
putting out the facts in the beginning, because these all
(23:54):
have a number of theories from like maybe possibly but
no proof, level of theories to disturbingly plausible. Would you
guys say that's accurate.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I think that's extremely accurate.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
And the big, the big question here is with all
of these eight disappearances, is it even possible that one
suspect could connect all of them or maybe a few
of them, maybe most of them. You know, it's within
the realm of possibility. But as we've just described to
you before the break there that the many of the
disappearances do feel similar where there's a vanishing in you know,
(24:32):
out of nowhere, just in the middle of the day,
as with Deirdre, there and a few others that we
talked about Imelda. A few others feel a bit different
and almost like they maybe shouldn't even be added on
this list because they appear to have been, you know,
with loved ones at the time when they disappeared, or
(24:53):
right before they disappeared. There's just some strangers in here.
But the big question is is there any one person
that connects more than one of these victims.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Any The most telling connective element is the fact that
none of these have any There's no body, you know,
and for it being such a relatively small geographical area,
you know, most disappearances like this, if they were random,
if they were random abductions or you know, domestic or
(25:22):
something like that, you would have a body.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I'm glad that you bring that up, because that's that's
something that's going to come into played later. And I
believe it was. I believe it was in our earlier
Listener mail segment on this. I can't remember whether it
made it to air guys, but there are rumors that
areas of the Wicklow Mountains are known body dumping spots
(25:48):
for criminal element. It's a tremendously unpleasant thing, but I
promise you whatever city you live in. Anywhere in the world,
there are always places like that. There's areas of a
place called Douglasville, which is outside the perimeter of Atlanta,
which is a known dumping spot. There are areas of
(26:09):
southwest Atlanta as well. And this is not This is
not to say Atlanta is any better, worse, or different.
Places like these are around. You just don't hear them
talked about too often.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Yeah, and Kira, you know who is from Ireland. She
identified that her father is someone that would say, yeah,
be careful of the mountain range over there. That is,
it's tough to even walk around in those mountains without
finding a body. That was the quote I believe from
her father. So, yeah, they exist in the in this
this area of where this triangle is is one of them.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Ah And and we'll we'll return to the question of
remains in a moment. Let's let's yeah, let's look at
whatever connective tissue may exist outside of the circumstances of
the disappearances. There is one name you will hear, and
you have heard this often if you are familiar with
(27:04):
the case, as of a criminal named Larry Murphy. Larry
Murphy has been convicted of rape. He's also been a
prominent person of interest for the disappearance the disappearances of
at least three of these eight individuals, Annie McCarrick, Josephine
(27:26):
Jojo Dullard, and Deirdre Jacob. This is because all three
vanished close to the area where he lived at the
time in this mid to late nineties timeframe. So let's
learn a little bit more about him and why so
many people are certain that he had some sort of involvement.
(27:49):
He's very much not a good person, by the way, spoiler.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Alert, And the dude is thinking famous in a gross way.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yes, and less infamous perhaps, Yeah, Well you decide. Murphy
was convicted and imprisoned in two thousand and one for
the rape and attempted murder of a Carlow businesswoman the
previous year. In two thousand, he was attempting to strangle
her in a wooded area of the Wicklow Mountains at
night when he was surprised by two hunters who happened
(28:19):
upon the scene and took matters into their own hands, thankfully.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Do you guys, Do you guys remember that story? That
was the one where he had assaulted her once like
took her out of she he abducted her, assaulted her
once after he took her out of the vehicle, put
her back in the vehicle, drove her to another place,
and was doing it again.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
So we see a location change. We also see clear
intent to murder this person. And as we mentioned in
that previous episode, Murphy has claimed he is not connected
to any of the eight disappearances. He has been questioned
multiple bull times, but to date, the official position of
(29:07):
the authorities is that they don't have solid evidence linking
him to a case, Like they haven't found any anything
that they can really build a bedrock case on here.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
And there are a couple of things that do seem
to connect him right the He had a I think
he took a job very close to one person that disappeared.
It was Deirdre where he was a carpenter, correct, And
that was yeah, that was over in New Bridge. I remember,
I remember that. I don't I don't even want to
(29:44):
like give this guy any more. I don't want to
talk about him much more. But it is weird to
note that in Irish publications when this guy, Larry Murphy
got out of prison, he like he made the news
when he got out of prison because everyone was away
of him, and then as he moves around there are
sightings of Larry Murphy that are rewarded all over the place.
(30:07):
It's noted in publications who he's hanging out with, where
he's hanging out. I guess that's what I mean by
he's famous in a gross way. There's a fear about him,
as there should be, I would say, but there's also
a fascination with him.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I think, yeah, yeah, I would say notorious is a
good word as well. You're right he was. While he
was in Ireland, he was visited by a member of
the authorities every month because he was considered a high
risk offender, also followed by playing clothes police and so on. However,
(30:44):
he did travel to Spain. He was spotted in November
of twenty twelve in Amsterdam, where he's living with a
friend who is also a criminal, a violent sex offender,
and as of I believe twenty fourteen, he's believed to
have moved to South London. There's another part we need
(31:07):
to put in here, that's just about the timeline. No
disappearances occurred while Murphy was locked up in prison for
his earlier attack. I believe the court could have given
him life in prison, but he was only sentenced to
fifteen years, So that's part of the public outcry when
(31:28):
he was released. And for people who believe that Murphy
is linked to all of these, the fact that no
disappearances occurred when he was in prison seems to add
weight to their case. But you have to remember he
was convicted in January of two thousand and one, and
the last vanishing triangle case occurs in nineteen ninety eight,
(31:54):
So it's not you know what I mean, It's not
the same thing as hard proof. The other piece of proof,
as we mentioned, is that Murphy works as a carpenter,
carpenter by trade, and he had done he had done
some work at that grandmother's shop. There a new bridge.
But also we have to note that Deirdre Jacob's mother
(32:20):
has publicly stated that she does not believe Murphy was
involved in the disappearance of her daughter. That is, the
parent that's not an official investigator, but I think it's
worth noting that the family members, or the mother in particular,
does not believe that he had a hand in this.
(32:42):
Let's go back to the point you mentioned. Noel with
the most troubling commonality, the lack of a body. It's
unusual for people to vanish.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
If we take the.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Cases of Eva Brennan and Fiona Pender, will find that
there's been speculation that links them to two other disappearances
that later did prove to be murders. There are two
people whose bodies have been found, Antoinette Smith and Patricia Doherty.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, you could argue this is like, this breaks the pattern.
Ava Brennan and Fiona Pender have also been linked to
the murders of Antoinette Smith and Patricia Doherty. Smith, who
was a twenty seven year old separated mother of two,
went missing in July of nineteen eighty seven and her
body was discovered the following June in a shallow grave
(33:39):
in Killikee, and that's in the foothills of the Dublin Mountains.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Doherty, on the other hand, age.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Thirty four, disappeared while shopping on the twenty third of
December in nineteen ninety one, and her remains were found
in June of nineteen ninety two by men digging turf
in the same area of the Dublin Mountains. Oh what if.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
They're not actually connected?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I mean you know, there's a lot of woods in
this part of the world, there's a lot of places
to bury bodies. But then, Matt, weren't you saying that?
In the listener mail segment, there was somebody saying almost
practically like you walk around, you're gonna stumble on a body.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
Yeah, that was what our listener's father had to say
about the subject. Just something I want to point out here,
the Killicky or Kalaki, I don't know, want to say,
the Kilikey foothills of the Dublin Mountains. This is that
same mountain range that we were talking about. It's just
south of Dublin. If you're looking at a map, and
(34:42):
it would be like if you lived in Dublin and
something had occurred there within the city or right in
the outskirts of the city, and you just drove towards
the mountains, that's where you would end up.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Is Killocky essentially.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, so let's say the quiet part out loud. Many
many people began to think this could be the work
of one person, if not necessarily Larry Murphy, who again
has not been convicted of anything related to these eight disappearances.
The word people had in the front of their minds
(35:18):
was serial killer or the term I should say the phrase,
And it is crucial to note that authorities have not
officially publicly stated they think whether they think it's all
the work of a single person. You'll find some reporting
on this issue. It seems to imply that the authorities
suspected a serial killer or all eight disappearances. Remember, these
(35:41):
are still technically not murders at this point. This is
somewhat misleading. For sure, there can be individuals in law
enforcement who may believe that to be true, but that's
not the same thing as the authorities taken in a
fife position. In at least three of these cases, the
(36:03):
guardia strongly suspect that there was a personal motive to
these murders. That has, regrettably so often happens. The killer
was someone the victim news, one from their own life,
and a different person each time. So Sierra Breen went
(36:24):
missing when she snuck out of the house to supposedly
meet this secret lover who may or may not have
been married. Law enforcement for time had a specific suspect,
and they were a little vague but pretty clear that
(36:44):
they think the answer to the case maybe closer to home.
They also say they believe Fiona Synnot's killer was someone
she knew. In the Fiona Pender case, there was a
specific suspect who seemed to have dated her for a
time and was later tried for some sexual assault crimes
(37:10):
in Canada. This man was forty one years old. He
was arrested for assaulting and threatening to kill his wife.
This arrest later led to what appeared to be new
information in the Fiona Pender case. The way that the
(37:30):
way that the legalities of this work, the man couldnot
be publicly identified due to a ban on anything that
would identify the victim in a sexual assault case. So
it's not for his protection, it's for the victim's protection.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
So there's definitely more to discuss here, and we're going
to you know, we've we've talked about a couple of
things that we're going to hit on in just a
few moments, but first we need to take a break
and we'll be right back afterward from our sponsor.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
So we've covered some of the other considerations here. What
about other people that went missing during this time period? Also,
why did the disappearances stop or were they simply you know,
not reported later? These are important questions and there aren't
solid answers yet, but we do see some potential light
(38:27):
at the end of this tunnel in a couple of
different cases. So remember Annie McCarrick. Just this past September
twenty twenty, a man named Michael Griffith, a lawyer based
in New York, teamed up with an ex FBI agent
named Kenneth Strange. Michael Griffith was hired by the McCarrick
(38:48):
family back in the nineties to assist with their investigation,
and just a few months ago Griffith and Strange came
forward with their news. They believe they found a new lead.
There's a woman named Margaret Wogan who says she saw
Annie McCarrick on the day of disappearance with a man
(39:09):
in a cafe and it is scary. Wogan unfortunately has
passed on. She was working in the Poppy's Cafe and
she said, I saw a man approach to Annie McCarrick
in the cafe and offered to buy her a slice
of cake. But she never gave a formal statement about
(39:30):
this incident. She told her daughter about what she saw,
and now this team of investigators believed this piece of
information could be the key to solving her murder. As
we record, they do say they've identified a suspect, they've
spoken with Irish law enforcement, but this suspect's name has
(39:51):
yet to be released to the public.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
MM.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I actually heard this angle briefly discussed in a
a podcast that I listened to the other day called
Morbid that I actually quite enjoyed. They did a two
parter on this subject, and one of the theories that's
being discussed a bit on Reddit. There's a lot of
deep conversation about this on Reddit, is you know, this
was a person we described at the top of the show,
(40:17):
kind of exploring her Irish roots, who was very outspoken
about how fascinating she was about all things Irish and
you know, really wanted to kind of have an authentic experience.
And there's a theory that the gentleman in question here
could have been a member of the a former member
of the IRA, the Irish Republican Army. And once we
(40:39):
know that they they you know, they can get involved.
And it's something resembling it's not I mean, it is
like a why would you describe the IRA. I mean,
it's almost resembling organized crime and the fact that they
like do they have feuds, and there's bombings and there's
lots of covert activities.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Right. So, the IRA, the Irish Republican Army, you could
describe them as paramilitary organizations, but they've they've gone through
quite a few changes over over the years, even while
even while we were alive, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
For sure, for sure, but the fact is that there
there are lots of illegal activities that folks involved in
the IRA can get into, including bombings and you know,
strategic moves on rival factions. And the theory that was
discussed on this podcast was that that this gentleman was
(41:30):
capitalizing on the fact that this young lady was very
interested in all things Irish and perhaps got a little
loose lipped about some of his IRA activities while drinking,
you know, at this pub or at this restaurant, and
then perhaps sense that she was starting to kind of
get weirded out a little bit, or that he had
maybe gone a little too far in trying to impress her,
(41:54):
and then decided he needed to do something about.
Speaker 5 (41:56):
It because because Annie was the one who was possibly
scene at that Fox is it was at Fox and
Hound Pub.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
That's interesting. The Johnny Foxes.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Pub and we have further updates in the case of
Jojo Dullard in particular. We have to remember that once
these headlines leave the evening news, the story continues and
the investigation continues as well. And even if years pass,
cases like the Golden State Killer prove that investigations can
(42:29):
make breakthroughs. So let's talk a little bit about a
little bit about Jojo, because there's an allegation of a
cover up in this one too, I believe.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
Oh yeah, And it comes directly from the parents, from
Mary and Martin, the parents of Jojo Dollard. And this
was a story that was published in twenty seventeen in
the Irish Mirror.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Again it's the Irish Mirror.
Speaker 5 (42:54):
We don't you know, who knows if it's fully true
or not, but the parents do seem to be involved.
There are pictures of the parents on the publication and
we're just going to tell you what it says. According
to the family, there was a nineteen ninety six meeting
between the family and some of the law enforcement there
the Garda and according to the family, there was a
(43:18):
senior official that's what they're calling this person, somebody high
up in the organization that for some reason let them
know that the authorities knew the identity of the person
that had abducted, raped, and killed their daughter, but they
were unable to do anything about it. They were unable
(43:39):
to make the investigation go any further. They said, quote
the investigation won't go anywhere. And apparently this person even
gave intense details about what happened to their daughter, about
how she was quote wrapped in plastic and buried ten
feet underground, specifically using a digger, all kinds of things
that only some who had actually found a body would
(44:02):
would know if it was true, right, And according to
the family, they believe this person was telling the truth.
They thought it was, you know, actual information they didn't understand.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
They also alleged.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
That there was some kind of smear campaign, and there
was a bit of a smear campaign.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
That was put out against Jojo Dullard.
Speaker 5 (44:25):
And this has happened before when women go missing, where
the character of the victim is called into question for
some reason or another, when you're thinking about motive and
suspect and who could have been victim blaming in a
lot of cases is what you could probably refer to
it as there's just there's some really interesting stuff that
(44:46):
was laid out here by the family. The biggest thing
to note is that, according to this story, the person
that was being protected, you know, the murderer or the
suspect in this case, was allegedly someone in politics or
close to politics or politics adjacent, and that's why this
person was being protected.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
And this case continues. There are more updates here. We
know that later in twenty nineteen, an Irish priests came
forward saying that he received an anonymous letter that could
help illuminate the mystery what happened to Jojo Dullard. This
(45:28):
is strange because he said that he received the letter
after there was another public appeal for more information about
her disappearance, and he received this letter in twenty sixteen.
He says he brought it straight to the authorities and
that this letter had the writer. The author of this
(45:50):
letter stated they had information in relation to missing persons,
and the priest believed it was in reference to Jojo Dullard,
although the anonymous author did not mention this person by name.
How does this all shake out at this point, we
don't know yet, but we can tell you that as
of October twenty twenty, the Guardia has upgraded the case
(46:15):
of Jojo Dullard to a murder hunt. Their Serious Crime
Review Team and the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation launched
a review of the case back in February of twenty twenty,
and they concluded that serious harm was done to her,
that she died by some violent end, and they are
(46:37):
now treating her disappearance as a murder investigation. So something happened.
It's not public yet, but something is there, and something
convinced the investigators that there was more to learn about
this case.
Speaker 5 (46:52):
Yeah, it really does make you wonder what caused, what
triggered the investigation to turn this way all of a sudden,
all these years later. We're gonna certainly keep our ear
to the ground and see if anything comes up.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
And in the meantime, we would like to hear from
you this case bears more investigation. There's some wonderful literature
out on this if you'd like to read more. We'd
also recommend keeping an eye on the developments in the
(47:24):
investigation of law enforcement as these As we said, investigations
into these cases continue today. Let us know what you think.
Do you think Larry Murphy was involved. Do you think
there is a cover up of foot Do you think
there is one person responsible for these disappearances or do
(47:44):
you believe it's multiple people. We want to hear from you.
We try to make ourselves easy to find online.
Speaker 5 (47:50):
You can find us on Facebook and Twitter, where we
are conspiracy stuff. On Instagram we are conspiracy stuff show hey.
And you can even find us individually on Instagram. Right Ken, Matt,
what's yours today? It's for today, It's you can't find
it at instagram dot com.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Oh, come on, you're not going to use the cream
corn kid.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Not this time.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Okay, all right, Well, while you're searching for Matts, you
can find mine at how Now Noel Brown, I'm pretty
much just on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I just kind of lurk on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
You can write to me directly on Instagram and in
questions suggestions for topics at Ben Bolan or you can
do the same on Twitter at Ben Bolan HSW. Because
I did not know that our company's name would change
so very many times.
Speaker 5 (48:40):
I did the same thing initially and I just called
mine underscore, iHeart or something at this point out of frustration.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
But it's fine, who cares care?
Speaker 1 (48:48):
But what if you don't sip the social needs. What
if you, like many other luminaries, have made the decision
to desocialize yourself online. But you still have a tale
to tell. Where do these people go?
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Mead like the drink?
Speaker 5 (49:05):
I get it now, ben, Oh, yes, exactly, Well, don't
drink the meads. Sometimes it's just way too sweet and
it's just not what you're looking for. And the honey,
I don't know, there's something about it, doesn't.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
It's a bit for me, a bit much. Yeah, yeah,
it's elixir of the gods. That's true.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
But instead take a deep, long sip of ye old
one eight three three st d w y t K.
It's the most delicious beverage you'll have all week. We'll
enjoy it too. It is really great. We get to
enjoy it while you enjoy it. This is weird.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
I love you, I love you?
Speaker 1 (49:41):
How weird our our calls the action are getting folks.
What one day, if we ever make mission control or
code name doc super mad at us, they might just
publish a collection of all the weird things we've said
at the end of shows that didn't make it into
the air.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Please don't, Paul.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
How about just how about this call us one eight
three three st d W I t K. That's the number.
Leave a message, let us know if you don't want
us to use your voice on the air, or your
name or anything like that. Otherwise you just will so ha.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
And also if you want to, if you want to
leave us a review on your podcatcher of choice, we
we'd love to hear from you there as well. That
stuff does matter. We had a long running joke where
we said, you know, every time we get a review,
our boss calls us and just cryptically says, one more day.
(50:39):
It's not entirely true. We're exaggerating a little, but we do.
We do very much appreciate. Should the spirit so move you.
If you want to see our faces, then you can
go to YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. Keep your
eye on that. There's more to come. But if you
don't like any of that, if you're like I'm a
(51:00):
long form person, like writing letters, then we have a
digital letter box for you. You can always find us
twenty four to seven, three hundred and sixty what is it,
three hundred and sixty five this year?
Speaker 3 (51:15):
This year?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Okay, Well, that toy is you can you can always
find us at our good old fashioned email address where.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 5 (51:44):
Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow conspiracy realist. We are inspired by a listener mail
back in twenty twenty one and enduring disturbing mystery across
the Atlantic. We've always heard of the Bermuda Triangle. We
have a banger episode on that live with our friends
of Virgin Voyage, but I don't think we as a
group ever encountered Ireland's Vanishing Triangle until we heard from
(00:24):
this conspiracy realist.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Mm hmmm, yeah, real history mystery. The Vanishing Triangle led
to some mysterious disappearances, but what could have caused them?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Let's find out.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nolah.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. Student listeners, you'll notice that in
our strange news and listener mail segments, we will occasionally
(01:28):
note a topic that bears further investigation, and to be candid,
you know, we work assiduously not to accidentally turn those
segments into, you know, a full episode, but we do
keep notes. We're not just blowing smoke when we say
we're going to follow up on something. And that brings
(01:48):
us to today's episode. In a previous listener mail segment,
we learned of Ireland's Vanishing Triangle. So thanks again to
Kira for alerting us to this troubling tale. Today will
be exploring a series of as of yet unexplained disappearances
that have haunted the nation of Ireland for decades. These
(02:12):
cases remain unsolved today. Here are the facts. I guess
we should start with, what is the Vanishing Triangle? There
are always there's so many triangles, you know. There's like
the Bermuda Triangle exactly right.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Your mind immediately conjures like some sort of mysterious vortex
in the middle of the sea where ships get sucked
down into the great Beyond.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
This is different.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
This is a geographical triangle that is very much on land.
But the Vanishing Triangle specifically refers to a series of
mysterious and as of yet unsolved disappearances in Ireland. That
took place in the mid to late nineties, specifically between
nineteen ninety three and ninety eight. As you'll find out
in the episode, this is a very kind of small
(03:01):
geographical location, so it really has taken on kind of
a life of its own in the I guess lore
of the of the region. So there is an unofficial
list of disappearances that includes eight women ranging in age
from seventeen to thirty nine at the time of their disappearance.
So why is it called a triangle?
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Well, everyone who's listening, you know that people have gone
missing in Ireland prior to that date in nineteen ninety three,
and people have gone missing after that date in nineteen
ninety eight. This is specifically looking at a set of
eight women who who ranged in ages, so we're looking
(03:40):
at younger women around seventeen or seventeen all the way
up to women who were thirty nine at the time
when they went missing. And it really it's a triangle
because it's just looking at the places where these women
were last seen. Really, that's where we're focusing on. That's
why it's a triangle.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And part of this goes to the editorial choice of
various Irish media outlets. They used the phrase, and this
is not a ding on them. It is common and
some people may even argue necessary for news organizations to
(04:19):
find an umbrella phrase that encapsulates a series of events, people, places,
or things. So the reason they chose this phrase is because,
as we said, all these disappearances take place in the
same rough area. If you pull up a map of
Ireland now you're looking at it, you'll see that you'll
(04:41):
see pay attention to the east coast, you'll see the
capital Dublin, and then if you look up, if you
sort of let your eyes wander up the coast, you'll
see Dundalk, and then if you let your eyes wander
all the way down you'll see Wexford also there on
the coast. And the way people usually think of this is,
as you said, Matt, based on where these individuals were
(05:05):
last seen. The furthest Inland is kind of the point
of our triangle here. That is the disappearance of Fiona
Pender from Tullamore, which we'll get into the stories of
these individuals at this point. But as you mentioned, this
(05:27):
encompasses a lot of stuff urban areas, rural areas, the
Wicklow Mountains, and we're not talking about a huge region.
If for example, you wanted to drive from Wexford there
in the south to Dublin, it would take you about
two hours, so it's not you know, it's not the
(05:48):
best commute, but there are people who could live in
Wexford and go to work in Dublin every day. There
are worst commutes even here in the States. So at
this point we need to talk about the sequence of events,
the circumstances of these individuals, and keep in mind, keep
in mind what we said earlier. I love the point
(06:09):
you made. Met There obviously were people who went missing
before nineteen ninety three and people who went missing after
nineteen ninety eight. But the eight people we will introduce
you to today have never been found, no bodily trace,
no allegations that they contacted someone years later. They simply
(06:34):
seem to have disappeared the very first disappearance. Each of
these has unique, distinct aspects, right, and we can't. I
think it's probably best to treat each one as a
unique case before we try to connect them all other
than with those three commonalities, all women, all disappearing in
(06:59):
this Eastern of Ireland area, and all still missing today.
First disappearance, Annie McCarrick went missing on March twenty sixth,
nineteen ninety three. She was not from Ireland.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
No, she wasn't, but she was of Irish descent or
you know, at least had Irish roots, Irish blood, and
was very, very interested in exploring that on a solo
trip to Ireland. She was from Long Island, New York,
and at the time of her disappearance was living in
Sandy Mount, which is a coastal suburb of Dublin. She
(07:38):
was twenty six. She was last seen in the Wicklow
town of Enniscary and is.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Presumed to be dead.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And it's interesting too because she was she she went
to Ireland by herself. She's clearly someone who was very
let's say, self possessed and had kind of drive because
she wanted to explore this part of her, you know, heritage,
and she didn't have any friends, and she was known
to be pretty outspoken and good at you know, kind
(08:07):
of never met a stranger type person, you know.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah, And with her disappearance, she was a bit far
from where she lives in Sandy Mount, where we discussed
that's where she was residing at least while she was
in Ireland. She was seen at a post office down
in I think it's what do we say in the
scary and she may or may not have been seen
at a place called Johnny Fox's Pub, which is a
(08:33):
bit further away from that area. And we tried, we
just so everyone knows, we attempted to make a Google
Earth map of all these disappearances and we're going to
continue working on that after this episode, but you can
it's interesting to see how far some people traveled on
the day or night that they disappeared, how.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Far they are they are believed to have traveled exactly.
We very quickly get into situations where investigators have to
question the credibility of some witnesses, and you know, in
defense of many of the witnesses evolved people will tend
to be honest when they say I saw something, I
(09:15):
saw someone I cannot confirm. But you're right with the
distances because it was a dark, wet night during the
time of McCarrick's disappearance, and it seems odd that she
would have walked what is it six kilometers a distance
(09:37):
through that weather, you know, but that seems to be
the case. She was, as we said, never seen again. However,
stay tuned because at the end of this episode we
do have some updates that may interest you. Almost breaking news.
Just a few months later, on July twenty fifth, nineteen
(10:01):
ninety three, Eva Brennan from Rathgarn disappears. She was thirty
nine at the time of the disappearance and she was
last she was last seen leaving her parents' house. She
had gone over there and grabbed lunch with the family.
Interesting part of this case, despite the disappearance of Mcareck
(10:24):
just a few months earlier, the GUARDA did not investigate.
The authorities here did not investigate Brennan's disappearance for at
least three months.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, it was definitely a bit weird there that they
didn't do that.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
The problems, to my understanding, is that she was an
adult and there was no sign of any kind of
you know, break in at the house or any kind
of foul play. At least initially, there was nothing that
would speak to her disappearing for any reason other than.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
She just left.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
And that's at least according to the authorities, that was
why there was no investigation for that amount of time.
But of course, as the family, knowing that your loved
one is gone and this is not normal for them.
That is excruciating and I can't imagine what that family
must have gone through.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, and you hit the nail on the head there,
because again it's not The process of investigation moves differently
if we're talking about a thirteen year old person versus
a thirty nine year old person. So fast forward a
little less than a year. January third, nineteen ninety four,
(11:38):
twenty two year old Amelda Keenan disappears. She is from
Mount Melick or Mount Melick, so there are a couple
multiple witnesses who saw her walking. She was last seen
crossing the road at a corner of the place called
the Tower Hotel in Lombard Street. This was mid afternoon.
(11:58):
This wasn't in the middle of the night. She had
left her apartment around one thirty pm.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
I believe that's correct.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Another really strange thing because she's you know, we said,
she's from what was it, Mount Mellick, which is quite
a distance away from where she was staying with her boyfriend.
Think at the time her boyfriend's name was Mark Wall
and she was living her place of residence was very
close to where she was last seen. There by the
Tower Hotel. Just a weird situation the middle of the
(12:27):
day and then she's gone.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Then we have a Josephine Dullard Jojo to her friends,
who disappeared on November ninth, nineteen ninety five, at the
age of twenty one. She was living in Harold's Cross
and disappeared while hitchhiking home from Dublin. And if I'm
not mistaken, she was a waitress at a at a
nearby restaurant and had some card trouble I believe, and
(12:53):
last was seen using a payphone. Police pulled the phone
wreckers and found that she called her friend Mary cullinan
at eleven thirty seven and end of the call just
as she was about to enter this other car, the
driver of which remains unidentified.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
And with JoJo's case, there are conflicting witness stories, kind
of as we mentioned with Annie's case, there's it's tough
to know who's telling the truth, who actually saw Jojo
get into or get out of a car, because there
were a few other witnesses that came forward, and there
are also some kind of strange reports and I don't
know what to believe or not, because you know, I'm
(13:30):
looking at sources like the Mirror dot co dot UK
or the Mirror Irish, the Irish Mirror, I guess, and
it's just tough to know what's real or what's not.
But there are some stories in there about her possibly
getting into a car with two men and maybe not.
And there's even a story in the said mirror that
(13:51):
we can talk about later about a Garda member that
maybe knew the identity of her killer but was unable
to come forward with it.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Is this the one where there was also a story of.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Someone seeing her like get out of the car and
like under duress and like runs kind of from the scene,
because I know one of these there was an account
of someone witnessing one of these women like actually very
violently exiting a car and then running away.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
You know, honestly, I can't remember if that was Jojo
or not. And it's also a little bit hard to
discern what is hearsaying what's been kind of built into
some of the folklore of these stories over the years, because.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It's very fine.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
You can find videos online of people talking about this,
and the story seemed to evolve outside of what reporting exists.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, there are a lot of twists again. Each of
these cases is as distinct as a fingerprint, and like
the driver of that car, Billard has also never been found.
Fast forward February thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
CR.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Breen from Dundalk disappears at the age of seventeen. This
is different from some of the other cases because she
was at her mother's house. Her mother is named Bernadette,
and they went to sleep and according to the mother's
(15:17):
statement to authorities, she awoke a little bit north of
two am and decided to use the restroom, and when
she did, she found her daughter missing and a window
propped open. This led her to believe that her daughter
had stuck out with the intention of coming back, and
there's been speculation that she was actually sneaking away because
(15:40):
she had a boyfriend that she didn't think her parents
would approve of. Further speculation that this boyfriend may have
himself been married. But in either case, that was the
last trace of her, and.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
We don't have to get into it right now, but
there was a primary suspect in that case that ends
up being kind of important and connecting to some other things.
But then the leads, you know, don't really appear to
go anywhere. We can jump into that later, and like
you said, Ben, she is still missing. So then lets
go to the next person that went missing. Fiona Pender.
(16:18):
She was from Tullamore and she went missing on August
twenty third, nineteen ninety six. She was twenty five years
old and unfortunately and terribly, she was seven months pregnant
when she went missing. That's pretty rough. The last confirmed
sighting of her was by her boyfriend, a man named
John Thompson, and her boyfriend saw her leave the apartment
(16:42):
that they shared together. And there's something a bit strange
with this case. Ben, you've found this as well as I.
Something happened in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yes, yeah, over at the sleeve Bloom Way, which is
at the border of Awfully and forgive our pronunciation here, folks,
Lois Laus Laois. At that border on the sleeve Bloom Way,
people found a small wooden cross with the name Fiona
(17:16):
Pender on it, and this naturally led some people to
believe that Pender was buried somewhere in the sleeve Bloom Mountains.
There's much more to each of these stories. Again, we're
just establishing the bare bones facts here. So the seventh
individual grouped in the vanishing triangle is one Fiona Sitance.
(17:40):
She disappeared on February eighth, nineteen ninety eight. She was
from Rosslare, but she was living in Broadway at the time.
She was last publicly seen leaving a place called Butler's
Pub with a guy named Sean Carroll, who was her
ex boyfriend and the father of her then eleven month
(18:02):
old daughter. The authorities, of course, spoke to Sean Carol
at length, and we know his rough account of the
events of the night, but we should also note that
he was not Just to be clear, he was not
accused of having a hand in the disappearance. So here's
(18:23):
what Carol tells them. He said that he was with
sinnat at Butler's Pub. They left, he walked with her
back to her house and he slept on the couch,
and she said she had been complaining of some pain
in her upper body, in her arms, and so she said, look,
I'm just going to go to bed straight away, call
(18:45):
it a night. And then, according again to his account,
on the next day, Monday, February ninth, he walked into
her bedroom and he found her awake. She said she
was still hurting and she wanted to hitchhike take Awrye
to see a doctor later in the day. He says
that she had no money on her so he gave
(19:07):
her three pounds I think, yeah, and that was it
and then she was gone and we we you know,
it's terrible.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Because we only have the story of her boyfriend at
the time.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
It's just.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Her ex boyfriend I guess, and the father of her child.
So you know, obviously for authorities, he's going to be
suspect number one. To our knowledge, he was never formally
charged with anything dealing with Fiona's disappearance. But there's still
some weird stuff because there's discrepancies in the story here.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
There were several there was no evidence that she'd either
gone to the doctor or hitchike at all. Also, her
house had been seemingly, you know, kind of rolled stripped
of notable personal belongings. There is a retired detective sergeant
named Alan Bailey who said that there was a quote
(20:06):
complete absence of clothing and other personal items, indicating that
a teenage girl and her eleven month old daughter were
actually living there, so not necessarily looking not necessarily the
appearance that those things had been removed, more so the
appearance that they never were there to begin with. And
then the news started to spread of disappearance. A local
(20:29):
farmer came out to authorities with the news that he
discovered a number of black Duffel bags in the corner
of one of his fields and they had some pretty
interesting and damning contents.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
And just want to remind everybody here we mentioned just
a moment ago that there's no indication that a teenage
girl lived there or you know, a child, a baby.
We should just note here that Fiona was only nineteen
at the time she disappeared.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And back to this farmer, he tells investigators that he
found these these a number of black bags, and inside
these bags he found items and documents that had be
Ona's name written upon them. So this is smoking gun evidence, right,
(21:19):
This is something that builds a serious case if it
still existed, because you see, unfortunately, the farmer said that
he had burned these bags before he realized how important
they were. He thought this was he had another case
of illegal dumping, right. He thought there were just people
who were littering or purging their house and just throwing
(21:40):
it to the wayside, which is a shame that words
have a tough time really articulating, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
That's weird from all angles. Ugh, I just want to
be an investigator on the ground there. You're like, oh really, okay,
you burned them all?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Interesting?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Okay, cool? Oh really so you were slept on the couch.
I just want to interrogate everybody. Ben, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So our last one here, eighteen year old dear Dred Jacob.
She is home. She was in London at the time,
but she had traveled home to Newbridge for the summer,
and on July twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, she disappears
in an enormously tragic way. She is just she is
(22:26):
like on the way to her parents' house. She's very
close to her parents' house. Multiple witnesses in cars saw
her within yards of her parents' driveway, and she never
made it, and no one knows what happened, or no
(22:47):
one has come forward with knowledge of what happened. Like
the other seven individuals, she too seems to have disappeared.
So some people have included additional disappearances as part of
a larger pattern here. But you'll find that most official
inquiries now list these eight individuals as there the core
(23:09):
people in question, and in the decades following, a multitude
of authorities, journalists, authors, and more have searched for answers
to these haunting questions. Should be no surprise that theories abound.
So what happened? We'll explore that after a word from
(23:30):
our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Now, keep behind
the curtain, as we sometimes say, the three of us,
we're working over time to make sure we were just
putting out the facts in the beginning, because these all
(23:54):
have a number of theories from like maybe possibly but
no proof, level of theories to disturbingly plausible. Would you
guys say that's accurate.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I think that's extremely accurate.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
And the big, the big question here is with all
of these eight disappearances, is it even possible that one
suspect could connect all of them or maybe a few
of them, maybe most of them. You know, it's within
the realm of possibility. But as we've just described to
you before the break there that the many of the
disappearances do feel similar where there's a vanishing in you know,
(24:32):
out of nowhere, just in the middle of the day,
as with Deirdre, there and a few others that we
talked about Imelda. A few others feel a bit different
and almost like they maybe shouldn't even be added on
this list because they appear to have been, you know,
with loved ones at the time when they disappeared, or
(24:53):
right before they disappeared. There's just some strangers in here.
But the big question is is there any one person
that connects more than one of these victims.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Any The most telling connective element is the fact that
none of these have any There's no body, you know,
and for it being such a relatively small geographical area,
you know, most disappearances like this, if they were random,
if they were random abductions or you know, domestic or
(25:22):
something like that, you would have a body.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I'm glad that you bring that up, because that's that's
something that's going to come into played later. And I
believe it was. I believe it was in our earlier
Listener mail segment on this. I can't remember whether it
made it to air guys, but there are rumors that
areas of the Wicklow Mountains are known body dumping spots
(25:48):
for criminal element. It's a tremendously unpleasant thing, but I
promise you whatever city you live in. Anywhere in the world,
there are always places like that. There's areas of a
place called Douglasville, which is outside the perimeter of Atlanta,
which is a known dumping spot. There are areas of
(26:09):
southwest Atlanta as well. And this is not This is
not to say Atlanta is any better, worse, or different.
Places like these are around. You just don't hear them
talked about too often.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Yeah, and Kira, you know who is from Ireland. She
identified that her father is someone that would say, yeah,
be careful of the mountain range over there. That is,
it's tough to even walk around in those mountains without
finding a body. That was the quote I believe from
her father. So, yeah, they exist in the in this
this area of where this triangle is is one of them.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Ah And and we'll we'll return to the question of
remains in a moment. Let's let's yeah, let's look at
whatever connective tissue may exist outside of the circumstances of
the disappearances. There is one name you will hear, and
you have heard this often if you are familiar with
(27:04):
the case, as of a criminal named Larry Murphy. Larry
Murphy has been convicted of rape. He's also been a
prominent person of interest for the disappearance the disappearances of
at least three of these eight individuals, Annie McCarrick, Josephine
(27:26):
Jojo Dullard, and Deirdre Jacob. This is because all three
vanished close to the area where he lived at the
time in this mid to late nineties timeframe. So let's
learn a little bit more about him and why so
many people are certain that he had some sort of involvement.
(27:49):
He's very much not a good person, by the way, spoiler.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Alert, And the dude is thinking famous in a gross way.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yes, and less infamous perhaps, Yeah, Well you decide. Murphy
was convicted and imprisoned in two thousand and one for
the rape and attempted murder of a Carlow businesswoman the
previous year. In two thousand, he was attempting to strangle
her in a wooded area of the Wicklow Mountains at
night when he was surprised by two hunters who happened
(28:19):
upon the scene and took matters into their own hands, thankfully.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Do you guys, Do you guys remember that story? That
was the one where he had assaulted her once like
took her out of she he abducted her, assaulted her
once after he took her out of the vehicle, put
her back in the vehicle, drove her to another place,
and was doing it again.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
So we see a location change. We also see clear
intent to murder this person. And as we mentioned in
that previous episode, Murphy has claimed he is not connected
to any of the eight disappearances. He has been questioned
multiple bull times, but to date, the official position of
(29:07):
the authorities is that they don't have solid evidence linking
him to a case, Like they haven't found any anything
that they can really build a bedrock case on here.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
And there are a couple of things that do seem
to connect him right the He had a I think
he took a job very close to one person that disappeared.
It was Deirdre where he was a carpenter, correct, And
that was yeah, that was over in New Bridge. I remember,
I remember that. I don't I don't even want to
(29:44):
like give this guy any more. I don't want to
talk about him much more. But it is weird to
note that in Irish publications when this guy, Larry Murphy
got out of prison, he like he made the news
when he got out of prison because everyone was away
of him, and then as he moves around there are
sightings of Larry Murphy that are rewarded all over the place.
(30:07):
It's noted in publications who he's hanging out with, where
he's hanging out. I guess that's what I mean by
he's famous in a gross way. There's a fear about him,
as there should be, I would say, but there's also
a fascination with him.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I think, yeah, yeah, I would say notorious is a
good word as well. You're right he was. While he
was in Ireland, he was visited by a member of
the authorities every month because he was considered a high
risk offender, also followed by playing clothes police and so on. However,
(30:44):
he did travel to Spain. He was spotted in November
of twenty twelve in Amsterdam, where he's living with a
friend who is also a criminal, a violent sex offender,
and as of I believe twenty fourteen, he's believed to
have moved to South London. There's another part we need
(31:07):
to put in here, that's just about the timeline. No
disappearances occurred while Murphy was locked up in prison for
his earlier attack. I believe the court could have given
him life in prison, but he was only sentenced to
fifteen years, So that's part of the public outcry when
(31:28):
he was released. And for people who believe that Murphy
is linked to all of these, the fact that no
disappearances occurred when he was in prison seems to add
weight to their case. But you have to remember he
was convicted in January of two thousand and one, and
the last vanishing triangle case occurs in nineteen ninety eight,
(31:54):
So it's not you know what I mean, It's not
the same thing as hard proof. The other piece of proof,
as we mentioned, is that Murphy works as a carpenter,
carpenter by trade, and he had done he had done
some work at that grandmother's shop. There a new bridge.
But also we have to note that Deirdre Jacob's mother
(32:20):
has publicly stated that she does not believe Murphy was
involved in the disappearance of her daughter. That is, the
parent that's not an official investigator, but I think it's
worth noting that the family members, or the mother in particular,
does not believe that he had a hand in this.
(32:42):
Let's go back to the point you mentioned. Noel with
the most troubling commonality, the lack of a body. It's
unusual for people to vanish.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
If we take the.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Cases of Eva Brennan and Fiona Pender, will find that
there's been speculation that links them to two other disappearances
that later did prove to be murders. There are two
people whose bodies have been found, Antoinette Smith and Patricia Doherty.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, you could argue this is like, this breaks the pattern.
Ava Brennan and Fiona Pender have also been linked to
the murders of Antoinette Smith and Patricia Doherty. Smith, who
was a twenty seven year old separated mother of two,
went missing in July of nineteen eighty seven and her
body was discovered the following June in a shallow grave
(33:39):
in Killikee, and that's in the foothills of the Dublin Mountains.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Doherty, on the other hand, age.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Thirty four, disappeared while shopping on the twenty third of
December in nineteen ninety one, and her remains were found
in June of nineteen ninety two by men digging turf
in the same area of the Dublin Mountains. Oh what if.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
They're not actually connected?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I mean you know, there's a lot of woods in
this part of the world, there's a lot of places
to bury bodies. But then, Matt, weren't you saying that?
In the listener mail segment, there was somebody saying almost
practically like you walk around, you're gonna stumble on a body.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
Yeah, that was what our listener's father had to say
about the subject. Just something I want to point out here,
the Killicky or Kalaki, I don't know, want to say,
the Kilikey foothills of the Dublin Mountains. This is that
same mountain range that we were talking about. It's just
south of Dublin. If you're looking at a map, and
(34:42):
it would be like if you lived in Dublin and
something had occurred there within the city or right in
the outskirts of the city, and you just drove towards
the mountains, that's where you would end up.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Is Killocky essentially.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, so let's say the quiet part out loud. Many
many people began to think this could be the work
of one person, if not necessarily Larry Murphy, who again
has not been convicted of anything related to these eight disappearances.
The word people had in the front of their minds
(35:18):
was serial killer or the term I should say the phrase,
And it is crucial to note that authorities have not
officially publicly stated they think whether they think it's all
the work of a single person. You'll find some reporting
on this issue. It seems to imply that the authorities
suspected a serial killer or all eight disappearances. Remember, these
(35:41):
are still technically not murders at this point. This is
somewhat misleading. For sure, there can be individuals in law
enforcement who may believe that to be true, but that's
not the same thing as the authorities taken in a
fife position. In at least three of these cases, the
(36:03):
guardia strongly suspect that there was a personal motive to
these murders. That has, regrettably so often happens. The killer
was someone the victim news, one from their own life,
and a different person each time. So Sierra Breen went
(36:24):
missing when she snuck out of the house to supposedly
meet this secret lover who may or may not have
been married. Law enforcement for time had a specific suspect,
and they were a little vague but pretty clear that
(36:44):
they think the answer to the case maybe closer to home.
They also say they believe Fiona Synnot's killer was someone
she knew. In the Fiona Pender case, there was a
specific suspect who seemed to have dated her for a
time and was later tried for some sexual assault crimes
(37:10):
in Canada. This man was forty one years old. He
was arrested for assaulting and threatening to kill his wife.
This arrest later led to what appeared to be new
information in the Fiona Pender case. The way that the
(37:30):
way that the legalities of this work, the man couldnot
be publicly identified due to a ban on anything that
would identify the victim in a sexual assault case. So
it's not for his protection, it's for the victim's protection.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
So there's definitely more to discuss here, and we're going
to you know, we've we've talked about a couple of
things that we're going to hit on in just a
few moments, but first we need to take a break
and we'll be right back afterward from our sponsor.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
So we've covered some of the other considerations here. What
about other people that went missing during this time period? Also,
why did the disappearances stop or were they simply you know,
not reported later? These are important questions and there aren't
solid answers yet, but we do see some potential light
(38:27):
at the end of this tunnel in a couple of
different cases. So remember Annie McCarrick. Just this past September
twenty twenty, a man named Michael Griffith, a lawyer based
in New York, teamed up with an ex FBI agent
named Kenneth Strange. Michael Griffith was hired by the McCarrick
(38:48):
family back in the nineties to assist with their investigation,
and just a few months ago Griffith and Strange came
forward with their news. They believe they found a new lead.
There's a woman named Margaret Wogan who says she saw
Annie McCarrick on the day of disappearance with a man
(39:09):
in a cafe and it is scary. Wogan unfortunately has
passed on. She was working in the Poppy's Cafe and
she said, I saw a man approach to Annie McCarrick
in the cafe and offered to buy her a slice
of cake. But she never gave a formal statement about
(39:30):
this incident. She told her daughter about what she saw,
and now this team of investigators believed this piece of
information could be the key to solving her murder. As
we record, they do say they've identified a suspect, they've
spoken with Irish law enforcement, but this suspect's name has
(39:51):
yet to be released to the public.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
MM.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I actually heard this angle briefly discussed in a
a podcast that I listened to the other day called
Morbid that I actually quite enjoyed. They did a two
parter on this subject, and one of the theories that's
being discussed a bit on Reddit. There's a lot of
deep conversation about this on Reddit, is you know, this
was a person we described at the top of the show,
(40:17):
kind of exploring her Irish roots, who was very outspoken
about how fascinating she was about all things Irish and
you know, really wanted to kind of have an authentic experience.
And there's a theory that the gentleman in question here
could have been a member of the a former member
of the IRA, the Irish Republican Army. And once we
(40:39):
know that they they you know, they can get involved.
And it's something resembling it's not I mean, it is
like a why would you describe the IRA. I mean,
it's almost resembling organized crime and the fact that they
like do they have feuds, and there's bombings and there's
lots of covert activities.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Right. So, the IRA, the Irish Republican Army, you could
describe them as paramilitary organizations, but they've they've gone through
quite a few changes over over the years, even while
even while we were alive, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
For sure, for sure, but the fact is that there
there are lots of illegal activities that folks involved in
the IRA can get into, including bombings and you know,
strategic moves on rival factions. And the theory that was
discussed on this podcast was that that this gentleman was
(41:30):
capitalizing on the fact that this young lady was very
interested in all things Irish and perhaps got a little
loose lipped about some of his IRA activities while drinking,
you know, at this pub or at this restaurant, and
then perhaps sense that she was starting to kind of
get weirded out a little bit, or that he had
maybe gone a little too far in trying to impress her,
(41:54):
and then decided he needed to do something about.
Speaker 5 (41:56):
It because because Annie was the one who was possibly
scene at that Fox is it was at Fox and
Hound Pub.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
That's interesting. The Johnny Foxes.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Pub and we have further updates in the case of
Jojo Dullard in particular. We have to remember that once
these headlines leave the evening news, the story continues and
the investigation continues as well. And even if years pass,
cases like the Golden State Killer prove that investigations can
(42:29):
make breakthroughs. So let's talk a little bit about a
little bit about Jojo, because there's an allegation of a
cover up in this one too, I believe.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
Oh yeah, And it comes directly from the parents, from
Mary and Martin, the parents of Jojo Dollard. And this
was a story that was published in twenty seventeen in
the Irish Mirror.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Again it's the Irish Mirror.
Speaker 5 (42:54):
We don't you know, who knows if it's fully true
or not, but the parents do seem to be involved.
There are pictures of the parents on the publication and
we're just going to tell you what it says. According
to the family, there was a nineteen ninety six meeting
between the family and some of the law enforcement there
the Garda and according to the family, there was a
(43:18):
senior official that's what they're calling this person, somebody high
up in the organization that for some reason let them
know that the authorities knew the identity of the person
that had abducted, raped, and killed their daughter, but they
were unable to do anything about it. They were unable
(43:39):
to make the investigation go any further. They said, quote
the investigation won't go anywhere. And apparently this person even
gave intense details about what happened to their daughter, about
how she was quote wrapped in plastic and buried ten
feet underground, specifically using a digger, all kinds of things
that only some who had actually found a body would
(44:02):
would know if it was true, right, And according to
the family, they believe this person was telling the truth.
They thought it was, you know, actual information they didn't understand.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
They also alleged.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
That there was some kind of smear campaign, and there
was a bit of a smear campaign.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
That was put out against Jojo Dullard.
Speaker 5 (44:25):
And this has happened before when women go missing, where
the character of the victim is called into question for
some reason or another, when you're thinking about motive and
suspect and who could have been victim blaming in a
lot of cases is what you could probably refer to
it as there's just there's some really interesting stuff that
(44:46):
was laid out here by the family. The biggest thing
to note is that, according to this story, the person
that was being protected, you know, the murderer or the
suspect in this case, was allegedly someone in politics or
close to politics or politics adjacent, and that's why this
person was being protected.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
And this case continues. There are more updates here. We
know that later in twenty nineteen, an Irish priests came
forward saying that he received an anonymous letter that could
help illuminate the mystery what happened to Jojo Dullard. This
(45:28):
is strange because he said that he received the letter
after there was another public appeal for more information about
her disappearance, and he received this letter in twenty sixteen.
He says he brought it straight to the authorities and
that this letter had the writer. The author of this
(45:50):
letter stated they had information in relation to missing persons,
and the priest believed it was in reference to Jojo Dullard,
although the anonymous author did not mention this person by name.
How does this all shake out at this point, we
don't know yet, but we can tell you that as
of October twenty twenty, the Guardia has upgraded the case
(46:15):
of Jojo Dullard to a murder hunt. Their Serious Crime
Review Team and the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation launched
a review of the case back in February of twenty twenty,
and they concluded that serious harm was done to her,
that she died by some violent end, and they are
(46:37):
now treating her disappearance as a murder investigation. So something happened.
It's not public yet, but something is there, and something
convinced the investigators that there was more to learn about
this case.
Speaker 5 (46:52):
Yeah, it really does make you wonder what caused, what
triggered the investigation to turn this way all of a sudden,
all these years later. We're gonna certainly keep our ear
to the ground and see if anything comes up.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
And in the meantime, we would like to hear from
you this case bears more investigation. There's some wonderful literature
out on this if you'd like to read more. We'd
also recommend keeping an eye on the developments in the
(47:24):
investigation of law enforcement as these As we said, investigations
into these cases continue today. Let us know what you think.
Do you think Larry Murphy was involved. Do you think
there is a cover up of foot Do you think
there is one person responsible for these disappearances or do
(47:44):
you believe it's multiple people. We want to hear from you.
We try to make ourselves easy to find online.
Speaker 5 (47:50):
You can find us on Facebook and Twitter, where we
are conspiracy stuff. On Instagram we are conspiracy stuff show hey.
And you can even find us individually on Instagram. Right Ken, Matt,
what's yours today? It's for today, It's you can't find
it at instagram dot com.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Oh, come on, you're not going to use the cream
corn kid.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Not this time.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Okay, all right, Well, while you're searching for Matts, you
can find mine at how Now Noel Brown, I'm pretty
much just on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I just kind of lurk on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
You can write to me directly on Instagram and in
questions suggestions for topics at Ben Bolan or you can
do the same on Twitter at Ben Bolan HSW. Because
I did not know that our company's name would change
so very many times.
Speaker 5 (48:40):
I did the same thing initially and I just called
mine underscore, iHeart or something at this point out of frustration.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
But it's fine, who cares care?
Speaker 1 (48:48):
But what if you don't sip the social needs. What
if you, like many other luminaries, have made the decision
to desocialize yourself online. But you still have a tale
to tell. Where do these people go?
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Mead like the drink?
Speaker 5 (49:05):
I get it now, ben, Oh, yes, exactly, Well, don't
drink the meads. Sometimes it's just way too sweet and
it's just not what you're looking for. And the honey,
I don't know, there's something about it, doesn't.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
It's a bit for me, a bit much. Yeah, yeah,
it's elixir of the gods. That's true.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
But instead take a deep, long sip of ye old
one eight three three st d w y t K.
It's the most delicious beverage you'll have all week. We'll
enjoy it too. It is really great. We get to
enjoy it while you enjoy it. This is weird.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
I love you, I love you?
Speaker 1 (49:41):
How weird our our calls the action are getting folks.
What one day, if we ever make mission control or
code name doc super mad at us, they might just
publish a collection of all the weird things we've said
at the end of shows that didn't make it into
the air.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Please don't, Paul.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
How about just how about this call us one eight
three three st d W I t K. That's the number.
Leave a message, let us know if you don't want
us to use your voice on the air, or your
name or anything like that. Otherwise you just will so ha.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
And also if you want to, if you want to
leave us a review on your podcatcher of choice, we
we'd love to hear from you there as well. That
stuff does matter. We had a long running joke where
we said, you know, every time we get a review,
our boss calls us and just cryptically says, one more day.
(50:39):
It's not entirely true. We're exaggerating a little, but we do.
We do very much appreciate. Should the spirit so move you.
If you want to see our faces, then you can
go to YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. Keep your
eye on that. There's more to come. But if you
don't like any of that, if you're like I'm a
(51:00):
long form person, like writing letters, then we have a
digital letter box for you. You can always find us
twenty four to seven, three hundred and sixty what is it,
three hundred and sixty five this year?
Speaker 3 (51:15):
This year?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Okay, Well, that toy is you can you can always
find us at our good old fashioned email address where.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 5 (51:44):
Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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