CLASSIC: The 1969 Berkshire UFO Incidents: What actually happened?

On September 1, 1969, numerous people in a rural area of Massachusetts reported seeing strange lights in the sky -- and that was just the beginning. As time went on, more people came forward claiming they had been spirited away by unknown forces, had lost time, or found themselves some distance from their original location. What exactly happened? Tune in as the guys explore the ins and outs of this strange -- and strangely consistent -- story.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow conspiracy realist. Welcome to our classic episode. We're returning
to one of our favorite subjects, UFOs or UAP and
one of the strangest stories about UFO encounters in modern history.
You guys remember Berkshire nineteen sixty nine.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Classic, classic, classic, what a banger? Uh huh summer? Yeah,
we have sixty nine. Yes, when you got your first realm?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah? Is this what that song's about?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I think it is.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
It is read the lyrics, everybody, so read the lyrics,
really think about it. Numerous people in this area of
Massachusetts start seeing strange things in the sky. It's very high, strange,
like our palpane is wont to say, and multiple witnesses
come forward claiming they haven't just seen something, but they've

(00:55):
also been abducted. Right right, So in twenty twenty, we
try to figure out what happened.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Oh my god, this is like the Kate McKinnon stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, she was abductive, but not by the top brass.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Let's roll the tape.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff. They don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Met,
my name is Noah.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Paul. Mission Control decads. Most importantly, you are you,
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. Paul, could we get just a
little bit of a cree be music, some kind of ominous,
maybe a little sciency perfect. Let's start with the stereotypical

(02:07):
UFO story. A lone person or a couple is in
a remote rural part of the world, usually at night,
and they see something strange in the sky. They may
even experience a loss of time, their electronics may function
in an anomalous way, and days, weeks, months, or in

(02:33):
some cases years later, they begin to recall additional details
of that experience, of that lost time, and all too
often they have no hard proof of what they believe happens,
other than, of course, the certitude that something strange occurred.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
This is very similar to the Barney and Betty Hill
story that we covered very recently. That thing that you
just described, that that's exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
It, and wasn't that in fact kind of the sort
of genesis of that trope that sorry you're talking about
the subject of the Strange Rivals podcast really kind of
created so many of these repeating images that we think
of today.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, especially in the US, at least exactly in the US,
and because it originated in nineteen sixty one, or at
least that's when the sighting was said to have occurred.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
So today's question is what does it mean when not
a single person or not a couple, but instead multiple
people appear to report the same experience, not just the
same emotive experience, not you know, not one hundred people
saying I was scared, but people said I saw something

(03:49):
it looked like this. What happens when their descriptions match
and their timeline matches up as well, we may be
able to find the answer to this question. Of all places,
far western rural Massachusetts, here are the facts.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, unless you live somewhere in Massachusetts or in the
northeast United States, you probably have never heard of Berkshire
or Berkshire County, Massachusetts. It's on the far western side
of the state and it is very, very far from
like a large city like Boston's. It's kind of in

(04:28):
the sticks, shall we say, a bit, a bit of the.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Sticks beautiful part of the Sticks though to my understanding.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Oh yeah, it's it's incredible there. And this area Berkshire County,
it's home to a number of small towns. One of
the most important and prominent we're going to talk about
today is Great Barrington.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
And this is just just a side note here. This
is one of those names that is kind of like
a little John name. I don't think you should have
have great in his city name because it's it's like
doing It's like doing improv and then having one of

(05:09):
your character attributes be funny, you know what I mean.
It's sets expectations high. Barrington is a great place, indeed,
but it's not a great place in terms of population.
It's pretty small. And that's again another trope that we
see in a lot of these narratives, you know, like
this is this county or this what was a county?

(05:32):
Is one of those places where most people in town
know each other or know of each other. In these
small towns, the protagonists of our story that we're just
about to meet is an outsider. His family. They're considered
outsiders because they don't have a long period of ancestry

(05:53):
in these towns. And that's something I'll be familiar to
anybody from New England. That kind of I would say
a mild xenophobia.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Not only do they not have a long lineage family
history in this part of the country. I believe they
had recently moved from New York City, so they were
almost like fish out of water type situations. You know,
I'm adapting to small town life exactly from Queens.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yes, And just to note her, Great Barrington has been
around for a long time as a town, and as
of just to give you a sense of how small
it is, as of twenty ten, the Census Bureau reported
that there were just over seven thousand people that lived
in that town.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
And like many small towns, they are further away from
metro areas. This community doesn't seem set for explosive population
growth or anything. It's been this way for a long
time since about the seventeen hundreds, when it was one
of the I believe, the original fourteen counties of Massachusetts. Anyway,
fast forward hundreds of years. September one, nineteen sixty nine,

(06:57):
there's a kid named Tom Reid riding in a car
late at night. His mother is driving his grandma's riding
shotgun and his other brother, Matt, is sitting in the
back of the car with him. These kids are probably
a little bit tired because it's late at night. They've

(07:17):
they're just heading home from their dying room, which is
called Village on the Green. Their vehicle, a station wagon,
is crossing the Sheffield Bridge when something went wrong.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
And the doubly fascinating thing about the story is that
we have so many first hand accounts of what of
these encounters, and this is the one from Reid himself,
as he told it in a recent episode of the
rebooted Unsolved Mysteries that you can see on Netflix. I

(07:51):
was giving my brother a fireball, a little fireball candy.
My grandmother turned around to see some lights coming up
what looked like from behind the bridge or trees. We
all looked at it because it was kind of a
self contained glow. It rose up a little bit. It
looked like it followed the dirt road, which I'm sure
it probably didn't, but it appeared that way because we
could see it through the trees. The light started to

(08:13):
bleed through once we broke into a bit of a clearing,
we could see inside the car because it was dark
so the light was flooding inside the car. And then
that's when Reid remembers seeing what he described as a
white sphere, and his mother also recalls and described it
as a disc shaped object, and they estimated it was

(08:38):
about one hundred yards long, this thing that they were seeing.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
At least one hundred yards And just as so a
little bit of critical thinking there, we do have to
note that these are not trained pilots or anything like that,
not saying we don't believe them or they're not giving
us her estimate, but it is it is difficult to
estimate the true size of something when you don't know

(09:06):
the distance, and you don't know how far away you are,
you don't know how high up it is. The car
lights up with this, it's like the light envelops and
consumes the car. And this doesn't feel like the typical
light you see shining on Matt Nolan myself. Right now,
there's something energetic, almost palpable about it. And then the

(09:30):
family recalls an eerie silence followed by a crescendo ing
susceress an eruption of wildlife noises, cicadas, crickets, so on,
and right as that happens. According to Tom's recollection, they
see an amber glow on both sides of the road

(09:51):
and wake up three hours later. Yeah, yeah, Reid says.
We'll go back to Reid's words here. He says, that
was the last thing we really remembered from the station wagon.
It came to a stop off the right side of
the road. Everything got really calm. It was like he says,
being in the middle of a hurricane. There was like

(10:12):
a barometric change in pressure. It was just a dead silence.
Then there was an eruption of crickets and frogs. It
got really loud, and that was it. Then this is interesting.
Then we remember bits and pieces of being in like
a hangar. Other people were there. It was quite confusing,

(10:35):
and when they come to some things are different. First off,
they're like a mile away from where they blacked out.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, and I think it's worth really quickly. There are
some other articles about this with some more detail about
this hangar, and he describes it as like like a
Walmart situation, or like you know, like a massive sort
of indoor football field almost with fluorescent lights. And let

(11:07):
me just go into his description in this article on
grunge dot com He describes this amber glow emerging on
both sides of the road, and then he was all
of a sudden transported to this indoor hangar that was
bigger than a football field, and he says, we encountered something.
It was definitely not of this world. We had a
black and white television at time, and the imagery that

(11:30):
we saw on this thing was unbelievable. There were lights
and looked like fluorescent tubing inside this hangar. This hallway
we had seen was circular with a y configuration, almost
to control the flow of traffic. This one room had
a bode in wall that was rounded. This is not
something that you would have seen in nineteen sixty nine
anywhere else. I have no idea where I was, but

(11:52):
I know that what I saw was very different than
anything I've seen today. Fifty years later, he talks about
being forced to lie on a table, but jumping up
and running away, and he just kind of describes these
little glimpses of these rooms and then this facility, I guess,

(12:13):
And then they were back in the car and two
hours they'd lost time.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, they'd lost somewhere between two to three hours. More
than two hours. I often see it described, But if
you round up it's three important point though about that description.
That's something that they remember later when they wake up
in the car. According to their own accounts, when they
wake up in the car, they don't know what's happened.

(12:37):
They have just lost time. It is only later that
they remember this experience and a hangar, and later that
other well, no spoilers. Other people start to corroborate. One
big thing they notice though, immediately before they rediscovered these
memories of what happened. What transpired during this missing time,

(12:57):
is they notice some one thing is amiss with the
arrangement of the people in the station wagon. Remember picturing
your head, folks, Mom is driving, grandmother is in the
shotgun seat, the kids are in the back seat. Now,
when they come to in their vehicle, Mom is in
the shotgun seat and grandmother is in the driver's seat.

(13:21):
Is this a trick of memory? Possibly? Nineteen sixty nine
was a long time ago. However, it doesn't make sense
that she would be in the driver's seat because the
grandmother didn't drive.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
And you know, speaking of tricks of memory, Ben, there's
another account that Tom Reid has given where he describes
the grandmother upon coming to the grandmother being walking aimlessly
outside of the vehicle and the mother being unconscious in
the driver's seat, or or the mother at least being

(13:55):
unconscious somewhere in the car and the grandmother outside of
the car, and then having to get the grimmother back
in the car.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, I saw that one. And it's it's tough, you know,
it's a it's tough to get the right narrative because
we've seen both accounts. The one I've seen most often
is the description of the seat switching. I agree, yeah,
but you're right, You're right. The paths diverged there. So

(14:22):
the Read family, these four people are the folks most
closely associated with this Berkshire's UFO incident or Barrington UFO incident,
but they are not the only witnesses alleging they saw
something up there in the sky. The local radio station WSBS,

(14:43):
back in nineteen sixty nine September first broadcast accounts of
this event from what from what we know based on
witness testimony right or witness stories and accounts. People were
calling into the local radio station and it must have
been a great night for radio, because you get you'll

(15:05):
get one of these accounts. But then when you start
getting two, three, four, five, a dozen, it gets more
and more difficult to say, Oh, someone's just hallucinating or something.
And it's weird because for a long time this incident
kind of languished in the public discourse, and it was

(15:25):
something you would learn about if you talked with folks
at Move On, right, or if you've talked with your
ufologist friends until until quite recently Unsolved Mysteries in a
Netflix reboot covered this on an episode of their show.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, it's funny. I think I recommended this to you
a while back. Then. There's an Amazon movie called The
Vast of Night, and it's just wonderful. First of all,
it's a UFO story takes place in around this time period,
like in the sixties, and it has a broadcast component too.
Or there's like a switchboard operator that like, here's this
crazy frequency and calls into this radio station to kind

(16:03):
of report it. And then I can't remember exactly the
way it goes, but no spoilers anyway, but it has
a very similar vibe, and I think that was actually
based on the Kesburg UFO incident, which happened in nineteen
sixty five in Pennsylvania, but a lot of similarities thematically,
and I highly recommend everyone give that movie a shot.
It's really cool.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
I believe, yes, movie is great, and I believe we
have an episode on the Kexburg or at least we
did a video. Okay, Yeah, that's another great account of
something strange like this happening. I just wanted to jump.
If you want to watch this, it is on Netflix
on Unsolved Mysteries. It's the first season of the new reboot.
It is titled Berkshire's UFO.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
And in this when you check this out, you can
hear interviews with Nancy Reid, Jane Green, Tom Warner, Melanie Kirchdorf,
for each of whom are people claiming to have encountered
something strange. You'll also hear extensive interview sections with Tom.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
And Matt Reid.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
They would we can maybe get into this after the break,
but they describe what appears to be a physical craft
or a strange series of lights, and then some say
they remember to some degree being abducted, being taken for
a time by something, and then returned to Earth. The

(17:30):
reason I'm using the air quotes unabducted will become clear
later that's not me being a jerk. Some of the
witnesses object to that term. Soon, more reports of bizarre
activity arrive in nearby areas, including Sheffield, other small towns
in the vicinity, even over the state line in Connecticut.

(17:53):
So what happened, we'll tell you afterward from our sponsor
will sort of tell you. We'll tell you what they said.
Here's where it gets crazy. So we started today's episode

(18:14):
with a look at the sort of the quintessential UFO
abduction trope, which we have traced back, you know, with
the help of Toby Ball to the incident covered in
his podcast Strange Arrivals. What makes this case distinct? There
are a couple of different characteristics. One is that there

(18:37):
are multiple witnesses. According to the Barrington Historical Society, there
are as many as forty witnesses with varying descriptions and
you know, varying credibility I think, or maybe a better
way to say it is some are more hesitant to

(18:57):
come forward than others. We have examples of them. Look,
maybe we can explore some of those examples, some of
the non read examples.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Oh, that would be great. I think we should start
with Tom Warner another Tom. By the way, Tom Reid
is spelled Thhom as in Thomas, this Tom is spelled Tom.
So Tom Warner was a child at the time, a

(19:28):
younger person at the time, and he describes a pretty
harrowing situation. Maybe we can start with the beginning and
tell it a bit cinematically the way they did on
Unsolved Mysteries, just because it tends to lead to a
little more drama here. But he was at a neighbor's
house not too far from where he lived, where he

(19:51):
was doing some coloring. He was a bit of a
young artist, and he was at a neighbor's house coloring
with crayons, he says. And there were two sisters, the Shaws,
and one of them is Jane, who we get to
hear from in the Unsolved Mysteries episode. And this is

(20:12):
the account of what Tom says he experienced and what
Jane seems to confirm, at least in part. It was
labor day, like we said, September first, nineteen sixty nine.
Tom was doing his thing, and he says he walked
over to a window and experienced a voice, a disembodied voice,

(20:33):
coming to him.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Which he calls mental telepathy, which is a lot like
saying ATM machine or ven number.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, yeah, yes, And that's a whole separate thing that
we're going to have to just take here and put
put over to the side, right right, because.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
That doesn't come up in a lot of other accounts.
But also also in his defense, he's speaking extemporaneously. Yes,
And I do want to point out that this Unsolved
Mysteries episode is heavily edited.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
It is it is, so we don't know, as just
the consumers of this episode what fully was said. But
we do know that he experienced some kind of voice
that told him to go home, and he was looking
out the window and said go home. And obviously this
scared him. It would probably freak any of us out
experiencing something like that. And he told his friend Debbie Shaw,

(21:21):
who's the sister of Jane Shaw, that he had to leave.
So here's a quote from him. So I started bolting
out the door. I could feel this energy that was
inside me that was like fear from the mental telepathy
that I just experienced. And I was running full speed
and I remember just feeling like I was flying at

(21:42):
this point.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, and then he describes like running but not going anywhere,
like it's almost I mean, I think it's probably the
most dismissive thing you could ever say to anybody that
shares a story like this, Like are you sure you
weren't dreaming? But a lot of these details do feel nightmarish, sure,
like dream like idea of like running from an inescapable

(22:03):
larger than life force and not being able to get away,
you know what I mean. But that's what he describes,
he says, like paralysis just so, and allegedly Jane Shaw
saw all of this go go down, but it's it's
interesting to me because she's describing seeing something that I
don't know how you can really quantify. And he was
like running right here in place, just constantly for about

(22:26):
five minutes. He was running in place, I know, you
know what I mean, Like, yeah, what is that like
literally running in place? Like jogging or like a right yeah,
or like a treadmill. You know that's interesting. I'm trying
to picture this.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Well, I mean, just imagine in the Unsolved Mysteries show,
they do a recree a recreation of this, and it's
just someone levitating just above the ground but running furiously
as though they you know, don't realize that they're stuck
in one position.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Just for the just for the visual image to give you,
fellow conspiracy realists imagined in so many cartoons when a
character begins to run really quickly and just for a
second they're furiously running in the air, but they're not
going anywhere, and then they zip off. And that's, of course,

(23:20):
that is not to be dismissive of what Tom is
saying here, because another thing that makes it distinct is
we have a neighbor, a separate person, saying that they
saw what he was experiencing. And he also said that

(23:40):
he was receiving assurances from this voice in his head
that let him know kind of the same way that
a veterinarian talks to an animal when they're giving it,
you know, like giving it a shot or checking it
for fleas or something, and said, Okay, it'll be over
in just a minut.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
That's a great way to describe it. I didn't think
about it that way. That's that's a perfect way to
describe it.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
And Jade also has a quantitative aspect to her to
her description right, because she doesn't get hit with a beam,
she doesn't hear any weird voice. She's just watching very
strange stuff happen to her neighbor.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Oh yeah, exactly, So she's just an observer, and she describes,
she talks about getting hit by like him being in
a beam in a light, some some kind of light
surrounding him and this is what this is what Tom says.
He's he even says, I was running, but I wasn't moving.
I turned and a UFO dropped right out of the

(24:44):
sky in front of me. This beam that we're describing
came on me. And as the light was on him,
he said that his arms got jerked back to the
to the back of him. Basically, if you imagine at
the shoulders the arm, your arms being stretched out and
then behind you as far as they can, and you

(25:07):
know that to me just would be uncomfortable and almost
as if there's a force being applied or something to
the front of him so that his arms are going
back or he's being pulled. And then he says, my
hands jerked back, and it's like the air got sucked
out of me. And that is when Jane comes through
and says, she's describing this light that came around him,

(25:28):
and the next thing I know, she says, he disappeared,
and the onlookers, which would be Jane Shaw, Debbie Shaw
and assuming assumingly the parents of the Shaws if they
were present, we'd I don't I don't have that information.
They could not find Tom.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
He disappeared and for about the span of seven minutes
or so. That's that's the quantitative stuff we're talking about.
She puts a number on this and she says, you know,
Tom says the next thing he knows, so he loses
a little bit of time here. It sounds like he
is being laid down on the other side of his property,

(26:10):
and he seems to say it was kind of gentle,
like the way you would lay a baby down onto
the ground. By the time he reappears, Jane says, it's
been seven minutes. This is happening again. Just emphasize this.
This is happening around the same time, at least the

(26:33):
same day that that the Reed family is running into
an incident on the Sheffield Bridge. But Tom's not the
only Tom and Jane are not the only people involved.
I think we mentioned a little bit earlier. Melanie Kirchdorf
for her story is pretty interesting too. It is not

(26:55):
sponsored by dairy queen. But Darey Queen does be rolling
this story.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yes, Melanie and her sister and mother and father were
in They were in a vehicle, and they were at
Lake Mansfield, which is roughly two miles from the Great
Barrington area, and they were enjoying ice cream. They were
just going to hang out at that lake and get
their dairy queen on. And this is what Melanie says,

(27:24):
My father backed into the parking lot and this brilliant,
bright aura came around, and the father looked up and said,
holy sh And she describes how her father was excited
by seeing this thing and he wanted to just chase it.
He wanted to find out what it was. And I
think many of us listening can probably identify with that

(27:47):
feeling of once we actually get a chance to see
a light in the sky that we can't explain, we
very much want to explore it as long as we can,
you know, I guess until the fear creeps in. But
the mother, you know, was saying, oh, no, it's probably
just a shooting star. But for some reason, Melanie understood

(28:08):
that it was not a shooting star and it was
not something they should pursue. And the father takes off
chasing it with everybody in the vehicle, and Melanie describes
how she and her sister were shaking back there with
their dairy queen cones, and her sister doesn't seem to
remember anything after that moment, but Melanie apparently experienced something

(28:34):
similar to Tom, at least somewhat similar to Tom, some
kind of abduction experience.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Again, they don't really care for the a word, and
Tom doesn't.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, he describes like a lot of the accounts as
like being overblown and sort of misrepresented, but he does
describe being taken to a place, and so does Melanie.
That's what I'm saying, though, is the term abduction inherently loaded?

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Like I guess that's up for debate, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally,
Like we'll get to it. Is it a matter of semantics?

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Right?

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Is it splitting hairs? But just to show up some
of these non read uh non read stories or experiences,
Melanie did as you say. Matt maintained that her sister
didn't remember anything, but in her interviews she says she

(29:35):
remembered stuff. She just doesn't say whether. She doesn't say
when she remembered it, which is very important folks, but
she says she remembers being on a ship. She remembers
being in a room with people who were all young,
specifically child age, right, and she would watch them disappear
one by one, And then she says, it's interesting something

(30:00):
common with the read account. A more extreme version, she says,
she woke up and she was at that lake that
Matt just mentioned by herself, and she had to walk home.
And just for the record, at the time, Melanie Kirchdorf
is fourteen years old. Let's loop Tom back in Tom,
who just per his account, disappeared in his yard and

(30:23):
came back seven minutes later. Tom says that he also
remembers a ship, right. He also remembers some sort of
destination who was taken to. And what's more, he says
he saw fourteen year old Melanie Kirchdorf on the ship
for her part, and I'm trying not to be dismissive here,

(30:47):
but for her part, she says, and this makes me
think they're being sincere and honest. She says she doesn't
remember seeing him in this place, right, but that when
they met in person, il as they say, she felt
an instant connection to him and the thing about an
instant connection. I mean, I love Cloud Atlas as much

(31:09):
as the next person. Thing about it instant connection is
it cannot be quantified. And instant connection is not evidence.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
It's not and they didn't know each other at the time, true,
But that instant connection that Melody describes, Tom describes remembering
her eyes from that ship, from being on that ship
and connecting somehow with her eyes and remembered that aspect
of the whole situation. But the thing about this, We've

(31:36):
got three young people who describe fairly similar stories of
experiencing light and then being taken somewhere and then being
returned later on.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Well, I don't want to be apostle, jostler or whatever here,
But the thing is, is it not more accurate for
us to say what we have are three separate people
who are recalling events that occurred when they were children
in nineteen sixty nine.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
I think both. I think both are true. They're recalling
events that happened in nineteen sixty nine, but they are
also recalling events that they believe are true. It feels like.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Right right, But I'm saying, like, did they We don't
find accounts of them as children.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Say, there's no journal entry from that day that was
written down the day of or immediately after. I agreed,
I would one hundred percent agree to that. So let's
take those young people's experiences, whatever they were, or remembrances
of experiences, and put them to the side for a
moment and jump to a totally different account, one that

(32:50):
is told by Jane Green, another witness who experienced something
while she was on the highway with a friend traveling.
I think she was north of Great Bearington, traveling south
towards the town and she saw something on the highway.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
There's a lot of Tom's and Jane's in this story.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, that's a good point. I did a uh I
like how you said that with the air of its Chinatown.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Jack as Massachusetts baby.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
So oh gosh, the emails I feel a disturbance in
the correspondence for us. But there's there's a really interesting,
uh interesting phenomenon that is probably more suited to brain stuff.
I can't remember if I did it on there about
the rise and fall generationally of popularity of certain names
and it is cyclical.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Uh so.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
That a story for another guy.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
Wait, yes, Thomas and Jane, Thomas and Matthew in a
in a good Catholic place like Massachusetts. Come on there,
they're gonna be.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Everywhere, They're gonna be. H. It's it's a common name, right.
Uh So Jane Green different from Jane Shaw. It's us
after dark right, the sky the sun has westered, which
is where you never get to use. And Jane is
with her friend in a vehicle. They're traveling from Stockbridge

(34:13):
to Great Barrington, Stockbridge being another town in Massachusetts. Jane
sees a bunch of lights ahead, and she is to
be absolutely fair in multiple portrayals. She seems to be
the most skeptical of our first hand witnesses because she's, Yeah,
when she sees a bunch of lights ahead, she makes

(34:35):
the assumption that a lot of us would make, which
is cops or a car accident or a fire, you
know what I mean. That's where you see a lot
of roadside lights. Maybe construction.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
But I like the way you said that. It was
like cops, like, oh, no, slow down? Would do oh?

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Come on? Like if you're this, no, we have l
e os in the in the audience today.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Law enforcement officers, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Sorry, law enforcement officers. And one thing I think a
lot of non like a lot of civilians, a lot
of non l eos encounter when when you see a
policecar with sirens on, your first assumption, right is the
check to make sure that it's not you, like, how
fast am I going? Our windows down? And that doesn't

(35:26):
mean everybody's automatically a criminal. Is just a gut reaction
that we're programmed to have. And so she thinks, she thinks, okay,
there's something happening down the road, right, and she doesn't
think aliens or anything like that. But the lights are
so bright that she has to pull over. She can't
safely drive, and other cars are on the road, which

(35:47):
is different from a lot of again stereotypical UFO stories
that a car in front of her pulls over too,
and then Jane and her friend exit the vehicle to
see what's going on. Because we all have that kind
of vicarious morbidity with car accidents.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
The rubbernecking is what they call right, right, that's the
reason that.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
That's the reason that traffic jams follow car accidents. It's
not because the road is impaired, it's because everybody has
this sort of sick inclination to slow down.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
And watch yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, for sure, we
all have that. I want to I want to look
at one detail here just before we move forward. I
think we've all had this experience where you're driving either
pretty early in the morning or as dusk is occurring,
or just as the sun is setting, where the sun

(36:41):
is at an angle, and you're driving on a road
that's probably easter it's east or west definitely, where the
sun just appears to be directly in your field of view.
Suns in Atlanta, there are several streets where it happens
to me a lot, and I'm just this is the
only thing I can imagine where there's so much bright
light entering the windshield that you are unable to continue driving,

(37:04):
or you have to drive so slowly an attempt to
cover in some way to continue on safely.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
It happens to me on the Interstate sometimes when traffic
is crazy and I like, I don't know what to do.
I'm like, do I pull over like it's not gonna
go away, that better just power through it, or do
I wait for the position of the sun to move.
I mean, it is, You're right, it's debilitating and it's
very scary.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Well, just imagine that amount of light or the equivalent
of that amount of light occurring at night. Yeah, and
still being in front of your vehicle where you can't
you can't continue on, you feel like you can't continue on.
And we don't have any information about Jane Green's eyesight,
right or like well, whether or not she can drive

(37:48):
with or without corrective lenses, or how light may affect
her vision, because it does affect our vision differently, each
of us individually at night. But still just trying to
imagine that and then imagining that there is that other
person or vehicle full of people in front of her

(38:08):
that experienced the same thing. That's very very important here,
and we have we actually have a quote from Jane
Green from that Unsolved Mysteries episode.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
This huge object floated right there and I couldn't see
the end of it from the right or from the left.
It was immense and most of all, there was no noise.
That shit. That tracks right with the other account the
idea of this like calm before or like being in
the eye of the hurricane or whatever, where everything just
takes on this eerie calm. Back to the quote, there

(38:39):
was no motor, there was nothing. It was just there
and these lights were coming and I just looked at it,
and within a period of seconds it lifted up, went
this way, lifted up again, and went over the mountain.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
And she's just she's using your hands to describe in
that quote that it just it went. It went vertically,
then horizontally forbid, then vertically again. I want to hear
the account of the person who was driving in front
of Jane Green and her friend, because if there's if
that person, if that person is a witness and has
a very similar story than my goodness, I don't know,

(39:15):
it would make me believe it a whole lot more
if it wasn't for Jane Green's statements about what you said,
ben her at least self identification as a non believer
at the time.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, going back to my earlier point about some witnesses
being more reticent to retrace their stories or to go
on those sorts of programs like Unsolved Mysteries, we don't
know who else saw something and decided not to report
it if those people were there, And to your point, Matt,

(39:50):
what's interesting about Jane is she does describe herself as
a skeptic. Flying saucers are Blogney a lot of people say,
like a lot of people in this area of the
country seemed to say balogney pretty frequently. It's like the
radio friendly version of BS. So anyhow, this has changed

(40:14):
her mind, This tithing, she can't explain. She tells her
spouse and he says, you know, go go tell the
radio station WSPS. So she finds a guy named Tom Ray.
He's the director of the radio station at the time,
in nineteen sixty nine. She tells him. He starts to
laugh and says, okay, well even drinking, you guys spend

(40:37):
time one on you got space drunk and which is
a word we just made up? So he says, you know, well, okay,
calm down. It's probably swamp gas, which is of course
the UFO version of It's probably the wind.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Ye And it's all a dream.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
I used to read Word Up magazine and sorry, that's
for the hip hop fans. But but she stix to
her guns. We don't know what the other people in
those cars may have seen. And if the lights were
so bright such that someone could not drive, then other
people would have noticed it, even if they were in

(41:17):
their homes near the road, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah, that's right, and this is really important that she
went to the radio station to tell someone, no matter
what the reaction was, she was you know, there should
be an account of that. There should be records and
that we can look at. And what we're going to
do after a word from our sponsor is just look

(41:41):
at what evidence do we have outside of witness statements
from people who said they saw something.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
And we're back. So that was our That was all
the first thing that sets this incident apart from many
other alleged UFO sightings. Multiple witnesses, many as many as
forty will tell you where we got that number in
a moment. But we're going to go to your point, Matt,
about the radio station, because there are numerous accounts contemporaneous accounts,

(42:19):
which means accounts that occur at the same time as
this event. There are numerous contemporaneous accounts of people calling
that local radio station on the same night to report
something wonky. Jane Green went to the director because she
was familiar with the guy, but other people were just
calling in. Unfortunately, no audio recordings of those calls exist today,

(42:44):
and it also seems that some of these witnesses we
explored for just there. Some of those forty witnesses came
forward later after hearing about reports from Reed or someone else. Additionally,
if you look at local law enforcement, their records show
this was a quiet night, even for a quiet town.

(43:05):
There are two incidents on the books for that evening.
One is good news. There was a woman who was
reported missing and she was later found that day September one,
nineteen sixty nine in Stockbridge. And two there was a
guy who called the cops to complain about mysterious people
throwing beer cans and trash in his yard. So he's

(43:28):
calling about a dumpster problem, about littering. With those two reports,
you would think that a massive object in the sky
displaying bright lights, altering the behavior of wildlife, levitating people,
and so on would also be something that local law
enforcement wrote down in their log of the evening if

(43:49):
they took it seriously.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
But they do have a report of a woman who
went missing and then was found, just like those kids
like Tom went missing for about seven minutes and then
he came back.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Very good, very good point. Another distinction that often gets
reported in this case as a as a way of
lending credibility to the witnesses or experiencers as they're often called.
Is this Tom Reid, who is kind of our protagonist
in this story. He took a polygraph test and he

(44:24):
passed it. What we mean when we say passed it
is that the person administering the polygraph test felt that
he was giving truthful answers to those questions. Doesn't prove
that he saw stuff, but it proves that he believes it,
like it proves he's not lying, unless, of course, he
is gaming the polygraph tests. Because it is far from

(44:47):
a solid diagnostic tool, it's kind of ridiculous that it's
still used as often as it is.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
It's funny how the whole polygraph test concept really is
just a series of traps to try and get somebody
to confess to something by making them think that you
know that they're lying, including the new chair mechanisms, because
like the clenching of the butt and tightening of the keg,
there's all there's all kinds of ways to try and

(45:14):
beat this thing, and then all new ways to try
and beat the beating of it. It's a it's a
fascinating thing.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
So say, I'll take my polygraph, but I'll only do
its standing so you get away, so you can get
away with the thumbtack in your shoe and then flex
and flexing your kegs.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Oh, flexing the kegs, the old holden in the p
jostly in the apostles and flexing the kegs.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
That's the takeaway.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
But like it's we've talked about the fallibility of polygraphs
a lot, like over the years on the show, because
it is, you know, like it's not even fully admissible, right,
like in a courtroom situation, or it's considered kind of
a little bit dubious.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Right, Yeah, it really shouldn't be, because it's because it's
far from full proof, right. And there are still organizations,
of course, that require as part of a background investigation
the administration of a polygraph test, but that I would
argue is sort of a a legacy thing, or it's
a framework for people who are very proficient interrogators to use,

(46:22):
Like the people in a lot of investigations or background checks,
the people who are using a polygraph test are usually
going to be good enough at discerning folks true intentions, motivations,
and beliefs that they probably don't need a neat little
gadget on the side. They can probably just cold read
the crap out of you, but you know, it makes

(46:44):
it official. They're needles and suction gps and stuff.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
Correct me if I'm wrong. Was it an episode of
The Wire where they do a thing with a copier,
They get a guy over by. I think you're Emili
convince them that it's a lie detector and they make
copy of different things.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
And I think you're right. That might be a wire.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah, psychological influence is really what it is.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yes, yeah, yeah, like an E meter. But the shots fired,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
But look.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Here, they're very important things. This is running all along,
but they're very important things.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
We have to.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Clarify when we ask what may or may not have happened. First,
the Reed brothers claim they have seen UFOs before this time,
and it's something that the Unsolved Mysteries episode in particular
does not cover. In fact, they believe this was the
third time they had seen a UFO. They said they
have four encounters total, one in nineteen sixty six, one

(47:44):
in nineteen sixty seven, the famous nineteen sixty nine incident
with mother and grandmother, and then a fourth experience by
Matt Reid alone in two thousand and nine in Indiana.
But Noel, you raised an interesting point that off air,
that the story of the Reed family and UFOs may
start before nineteen sixty six.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yeah, it's interesting. The Reed family has sort of a
history of UFO sightings. Back in nineteen fifty four, Nancy
and Howard, who were the parents of the Reed kids,
had an experience of their own. Nancy was fifteen, and

(48:29):
she and her mother and her brother and her brother's
girlfriend had rented a cabin at a place called Moosehead
Lake in Massachusetts, and they awoke in the middle of
the night to a streaming light situation, and they claimed
to have seen squat pudgy figures standing in the room

(48:50):
watching them in silence. And this really does sound like
a sleep paralysis situation. Nancy claims that she was unable
to move, but could feel her body moving as though
it was being moved by some force. Some force was
moving her legs, and then all of this kind of

(49:12):
faded when the sun came up, but she felt nauseous afterwards,
and you know, and then the Suns had an experience
like I think five or six years before the most
famous one in the car where they saw these like
orbs of light come into their bedroom. It's just interesting, Like,

(49:33):
you know, we've talked about the fallibility of memory and
you know the idea of not implanting yourself with memories
or whatever. But that's certainly something that we know can't happen.
But it's interesting that this is like a generational thing
within this family. Like does that mean it's more credible
or does it mean it's less Like is this something

(49:53):
that maybe mom told the kids about growing up and
it was just part of their world and it was
like something they wanted to be a part of.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
And you know, I don't know. Well, for the true
believers in the audience, it may mean that this family
is targeted for one reason or another because of their
DNA or for some other reason that we just don't know.
But for the more skeptical it would mean a completely
different thing, right.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Yeah, Yeah, that's what I was saying off air before
we started rolling on this. That's the thing that gets me.
There's a rorshack ink blot to this kind of thing.
And I'm glad that you guys are bringing this up
on air and it didn't just die or behind the
scenes conversations, because we're going to see that as a
common thread, and we already have. I would argue, psychologists

(50:38):
may say perhaps the mother was knowingly or unknowingly manipulating people.
But I also believe I can't remember if I said
this before we start rolling. But I also believe that
it's woefully unhelpful to try to describe intention or motivation
to these folks without studying them, right, Like, if you

(50:58):
haven't met if you haven't met Nancy Reid, then you
really it's unfair to her and to her family to
say that she's tilting the scale. But it's also unfair
to ourselves not to acknowledge that is a possibility. So again, yeah,
it's kind of an eye of the will hold her thing.

(51:19):
The second part here is that the second clarification is
that Tom Reid in particular feels his story has been
massively sensationalized and perhaps his experience has therefore been exploited
or cheapened. He describes a pretty shady editing process that's
familiar to any of us who have worked it all

(51:42):
in the world of reality television or checked out our
episode on that maybe frank imbiting. Maybe he says something
completely you know, completely valid and sincere then has taken
out of context, and they've got some really like weekly
World News esque vo bookending it. You know, he particularly
like he's appeared on a number of different shows. He's

(52:04):
been on something called Paranormal Paparazzi, which I haven't seen,
Alien Mysteries, And he says that these producers, these companies
promised to take his story seriously, aka treat it with
respect before they went on air, and they exaggerated everything.
And one of those one of those big things that

(52:25):
he objected to, specifically was terminology, the use of the
word abductions. He says he never uses that word, and
he makes a good point because he feels it unfairly
characterizes his family. He says, you know, we're credible in
our accounts. We're not a bunch of raving lunatics. Lunatics,

(52:46):
by the way, etymologically is interesting. It means walk taking
long walks under the moon.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Right basically, yeah, well the idea of the moon like
being a source of madness or something, right, And it's
very interesting. No, what we were kind of to a
little earlier, like is this just an issue of semantics?
But it's true when you're when you're doing sort of
a loaded type UFO sort of like sensationalized story. Yeah,

(53:16):
you're gonna throw around terms like abduction and grays and
all that kind of stuff, And it doesn't necessarily mean
the words themselves are loaded, but it's all about like
the context and the way the story is portrayed. And
I think that's what he took issue with, was the
editing and like the way it was sort of characterized.
But you're on a show called UFO Paparazzi. I mean,

(53:36):
what do you think is going to happen?

Speaker 1 (53:37):
That's the problem. Yeah, I mean it's somewhere between incredibly
dismissive and disrespectful, you know what I mean, Like adding
in some crazy mood sound effects or something, it cheapens it.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
But anyway, you don't malign the mode, my friend, don't.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
I'm just saying misused in.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I agree, And I was telling you guys off air.
I listened to a podcast called lights Out that discussed
this story, and most of it it was well done
and I was able to check out, you know, most
of the stories, and they tied to sources that I
read and that we've discussed. But there was this whole

(54:15):
account of like these alien beings in the Walmart, you know,
hangar situation with like almond shaped heads and like limbs
like bamboo and like mushroom colored skin. And I didn't
find accounts of that anywhere like it. Certainly I don't
believe was anything that read spoke of. So that felt

(54:35):
like some real stylin. And hey, creators of that show,
if you hear this, I'd love to hear your sources,
because it certainly wasn't sighted. And I googled the hell
out of it and couldn't find any mention of these things.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Style it on them. Yeah, the idea of credibility and
legitimacy is crucial here. It's fundamentally important because this is
a controversial account of an experience. Right there is good
news for the true believers. It's a relatively small piece
of good news, but it gives an air of legitimacy.

(55:09):
In twenty fifteen, the story hit a milestone. The local
historical society, the Great Barrington Historical Society, decided they would
recognize this incident as a quote official historical event. The
director of this society, one Debbie Opperman, said, quote it's

(55:30):
a significantly historic event because check this part out, because
it's an event that was important to many people in
South County at the time, which is a kind of
a replacement for that Berkshire County area. So they're not
saying we believe aliens are real. They're saying, in the
history of our community, this is a big event because

(55:52):
a lot of people were involved, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Yeah, but then the plaque reads in a way that
surely seems to offer some belief, you know, or legitimacy
to the accounts, right, but.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
It's also over the top. I'll just read what it says.
The plaque reads the official induction of our nation's first
off world UFO Incident.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Off world slash uf all world, I mean, clearly sort
of meant to be like a tourist draw perhaps right,
like a roadside oddity.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
And it's not like they'd never heard of the Roswell
crash or oh one of the other things. Like some
of these events became big news.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Even Barney Hill.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Is this sort of like a best cup of coffee
in town situation. You know, it's like, Nick, can you
really quantify something that's that objective or subjective? Rather?

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah, what was that old Uncle Tupelo joke? Like the
fourth best country band in Missouri or something, or in
Saint Louis that I like it.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
But this was you know, this wasn't This wasn't met
with universal excitement from the community. Right it was was
definitely controversial, and folks you know, tagged it up, vandalized it,
and then recently last year in June, on June the fourth,
it was removed. And I've seen Reid commenting on this,

(57:27):
and he actually petitioned the city to not do that
because he he found it to be legitimizing his story
and his family's legacy or whatever right to give it
some historical theft. But it does feel to me a
little more like a bit of an opportunistic move on
the city's part.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Oh yeah, it's so their official reasoning, and some of
this is probably continuing through courts. It's been slowed because
of the pandemic. Their official reasoning is that it was
it's a property dispute, like where can the mind meant
be legally located? We should also say Tom Reid is
one of those private supporters who raised money to build

(58:08):
this obelisk. It's snobilisk.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Yeah, I think if I were a stranger driving through
this town for the first time.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
I would stop and look at that, you know, think
of a mothman statue.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Come on, God, that guy's thick, has a six pack,
yeah for sure, and some clappers on the back end.
I was part of that sculpture.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
It made me feel things that never felt before.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
You guys, let's let's really quickly. I know we're running
on time here. Let's get into the reasons that this
feels a little weird. We've got all these witnesses, but
we don't have freaking proof. Where's where's the proof of
this occurring? Where the photographs, where the radio reports, where's
the local newspaper writing about this? Why just talk about

(59:00):
what we've got in that realm?

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (59:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
This leads to like this is this what I was
talking kind of talking about before one on air two,
Like the the ruorshak nature of it, you know what
I mean the tea leaf reading here, because it introduces
us to a standing conspiracy theory. One of the most
intriguing concepts about this incident hinges on the idea that

(59:27):
government agents, for one reason or another, may have actively
conspired to cover up reports of this or cover up
hard evidence. And to your point, Matt, there are key
pieces of hard evidence that we would reasonably expect to
find that are missing. For instance, there is no record
of that radio broadcast from the evening of September first,

(59:50):
nineteen sixty nine. Why well, could it be because they
didn't take it seriously, didn't decide to record it for posterity.
Could it because it was just their sop standard operating
procedure to not keep audio copies of every single program
they did every single night back in nineteen sixty nine.
Probably yes, And also yes, well, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Yeah, because I mean, you know, it's not like they
had digital recording, where recording space is unlimited and you
can just record things constantly. Would have had to been
recorded on tape, like on reel to reel, and those
take up space. There's no reasonable expectation that a radio
station in the sixties like that would have recorded everything,
unless it was a special broadcast, you know, some kind

(01:00:34):
of like Christmas thing or who knows, or like something
noteworthy enough for the DJ or their anchor to like
flip on a tape. Though I would argue that this
does fall into that category, even it's only in the
oddities kind of camp. I would certainly be like, oh,
let's roll the tape on this. We can use this
for some crazy bloopers.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
You know, one day this comes up in the Halloween
clip show.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Right, obviously it does always record, always record. And let's
jump over to the newspapers, because there was a local
historian from Berkshire County, Gary Leville, Leville. He was coming
through archives at the local newspapers for at least a
month and he was unable to find anything in that

(01:01:16):
time period around September one, both before and after that
mentioned any sidings from any locals. And again, is that
because the paper didn't think it was credible. It appears
that that at least was true in a couple cases
where the paper didn't want to commit it to writing

(01:01:36):
because they didn't want the town to be this weird
place where UFOs happen or where delusional people think they
see UFOs, depending how you feel about it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, and in both of those cases that's an editorial choice, right,
it's completely legal for them to do that. However, there's
a third case when we get to the matter of
law enforcement. Those organizations are required to document stuff legally.
So there's a guy named Santi Gulatta. He was the

(01:02:05):
Sheffield Chief of Police in nineteen sixty nine when this occurred,
and according to his son Eddie in later interviews, Galotta
did actually receive phone calls about some sort of mysterious
object in the sky, but he didn't believe the reports,
because you know, if you're running, if you're running an
open phone line, you probably get a lot of crazy calls.

(01:02:29):
One eight three three stdwytk let us know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
But we do have that account of there not being
anything on the books whatsoever right on that day, besides
the missing woman that I still contend may have something
to do with this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
One. There's one big elephant in the zoom call, though,
and it's this there's a socio political kind of context
that in which this occurs, and it's not isolated from it.
We're in the middle of a Cold war, right Also,
this is just months after the first official moon landing. Right,

(01:03:12):
space is very much on everybody's mind, and it's certain
that the alphabet soup is gonna keep tabs on any
unusual activity the world militaries, forget just the US military.
If you hear about a strange object in the sky,
your first thought is gonna maybe not be aliens, but
it's gonna be like, is this just weather balloon or

(01:03:33):
did the other guys, the bad guys, build something that
we don't have. So I like, we know that we're
extensive investigations.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Oh yeah, absolutely. Here here's the other part of that.
Let's say you're an advanced civilization keeping light tabs on.
You know, a group of semi intelligent animals that can
drive cars and fly airplane and they can shoot things
up into the atmosphere a bit, but they can't really
do much else besides that. And all of a sudden

(01:04:06):
you notice that a ship has made its way all
the way to the lunar surface of the moon of
that planet. Maybe you'd start doing a little more closer
research right after closer monitoring.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Just so yeah, yeah, yeah, let's look at this. Let's
see what they're up to, right, I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
So you go, so you go to Great Barrington, Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Right right, because you had earlier abducted someone from that region,
and now you want to see what they're how your
genetic experiments have affected their offspring, et cetera. You can
mad lib anything into that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
I mean, that's the most compelling kind of more out
there way of looking at this. I love the multi
generational idea of like the parents being you know, targeted
in some way and they're like lineage or whatever. I
think that's pretty cool. I don't know if it's a thing,
but it's certainly an interesting thing to think about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Well, then the other question is, of course, the bet
I want to put this very diplomatically. This is not
my personal belief, but it is an understandable belief on
the part of some skeptics to say there's something inherently
narcissistic about the idea that out of billions of people

(01:05:30):
on the planet who are all, you know, physiologically, we're
all pretty much the iterations on a theme or variations
on a theme. There's something kind of narcissistic about saying, well,
they singled me out multiple times, and I therefore am
special for that reason. And it's like a you know,

(01:05:51):
like paranoia is ultimately a narcissistic flavor of thought or ideation.
I don't agree with that, but I see where people
are coming from with that. In my opinion, I don't
think there there's anyone who's like purposely lying to folks
for attention, And I think you know to say that

(01:06:15):
is the case without solid proof become comes very close
to victim blaming, which which would be irresponsible of us.
At this point, Matt, you had a quote from Jane
Green that you quite liked in the Unsolved Mysteries episode.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Oh, yes, I do, and you'll have to forgive us
Unsolved Mysteries. We very much enjoyed your episode. And I'm
pulling another direct quote from your program. Yeah, I and
I'm doing it because Jane Green just is highly convincing
to me personally in her reasoning behind telling this story,

(01:06:52):
behind wanting you to hear her story. So I'm just
going to read it. I just wish that everyone that
sees this talking about the Unssal Mysteries episode really would
open their minds because I know the people that are
being interviewed are people just like everyone out there that
probably at one time didn't believe, doubted and when this happens,

(01:07:14):
there is no doubt. I have no reason to make
anything up. I'm eighty five years old, and this is
not something that I expected to do or ever to
talk about. It's real. It's for real. People have got
to understand that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
And this shares a common thread with Tom Reid's earlier
statement before the record, I want to point out that
while it's true he and others have made multiple appearances
on various I would call them paranormal popcorn shows just
because I like the alliteration. Not trying to start trying

(01:07:49):
to get any beef points. But just because they've made
appearances on these shows doesn't mean that they're somehow con artists.
You have to listen to people clearly and objectively. It's
safe to say that these events, their participation in these
shows or other media outlets, haven't made them wealthy. They're

(01:08:11):
not milking this as some sort of extraterrestrial cash cow.
They in fact, they simply told their story once and
have stuck with it throughout multiple decades. It is safe
to say, at the very least that they believe this
story is true. So what about you, conspiracy realist, what

(01:08:32):
are your thoughts? We would love to hear them. You
can feel free to abduct us in your UFO and
give us the first hand scoop if you were involved
with this, and if not, if you don't happen to
have a running UFO now, you can always find us
on the internet.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
You sure can. We are on all the usual spots
the social media's conspiracy stuff or conspiracy stuff show on Instagram.
You can join our Facebook group which we dearly that
is called Here's where it Gets Crazy on Facebook. He's
name and name of any of the names involved in
this show. Superproducer Paul Michig controlled decands, Doc Holliday, Noel,

(01:09:11):
Matt ben Co. Excuse me, excuse me, cod. If you
don't put the code name call in Doc Holliday, you're out. No,
I'm kidding, We're pretty forgiving. Make Ben laugh. Let us
know that you're a human person who's aware of the show,
and you are in for all the good memes and
discussions and tom foolery that goes on in that group.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
And if you're not into social media, you should give
us a call. Our number is one eight three three
st d w y t K. Huge shout out to Jen, Jen,
you know who you are. You gave us a call
and you told us about this topic. Weirdly enough, we
are behind back to I think early October in our voicemails,

(01:09:52):
and we're getting through it right now. But I watched
this episode of Unsolved Mysteries, then checked out some some
voicemails and heard you tell us about this episode. So
just worlds came together. Thank you so much, Jen, I left.
I would have left you a message, but I think
your voicemailbox is full. So like Jen, give us a call,

(01:10:14):
tell us what you think, and yeah, just let us
know if we can use your name and likeness on
the show. If you don't want to do that, there's
always the best way to get in contact with us.
Send us a good old fashion email.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
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