September 10, 2026 • 65 mins
Since ancient times, human beings have known the sun can be dangerous. Too much exposure to its rays can burn and prematurely age the skin. In fact, the concept of sunscreen may be a non-human invention, as various types of animals coat themselves in protective layers of mud to stave off the at-times brutal effects of heat and sunshine. Fast forward to the modern era -- sunscreen is a huge industry, and people across the planet use it on a daily basis. The science seems sound. Unlike some skin care products, sunscreen actually works... however, it appears sunscreen may also have a dark side. Join Ben and Matt for more in this week's Classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow conspiracy realist, welcome back to the show. We're doing
some classic episodes as we're gearing up for some travel. Guys,
it's the end of summer. I know that some people
love the daylight more than yours truly, but back in 2021,
we found something that I think baffled a lot of us. Sunscreen, right?
(00:23):
Whenever you go outside, especially here in the States, your
parents always tell you, Put on sunscreen, right, before you
go to the beach.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
You know, I've become quite a sunscreen stickler. I've been
doing a lot more outdoorsy activities, and I like to
spray personally.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
But, yeah, it's important, man.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Those UV rays, they be penetrating the dermis.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, especially for the more fair-skinned of us. I'm going
to put myself in that category. I'm looking at you guys.
I can't tell if you need that much sunscreen. I
definitely need a ton of it. This episode that we're
about to present to you as a classic talked about
some pretty terrifying things that are in that sunscreen that
we need to be a little worried about.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Oh, no.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah. Just go ahead and rub yourself down. Spray yourself off, folks.
This is the episode where we ruin sunscreen.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And guys, there is new information. There are like new
ingredients that the FDA has just approved, I think this
year or last year, that counteract or they're They're counter
to some of the things we're talking about in the episode,
and they're new and they're improved. But how long until
those ingredients then become the stuff that we're about to
talk about?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Let's roll the tape. From UFOs to psychic powers and
government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can
turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want
you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
My name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are
joined as always with our super producer, Paul Mission Control Deccan.
Most importantly, you are you, you are here, and that
makes this Stuff They Don't Want You To Know. The
weather is beautiful here in Atlanta, in the south of
the U.S. People constantly talk about the weather. We had
(02:29):
a very moody atmosphere here just yesterday. There was big
sea shanty energy in the morning. We're talking rain, thunder,
felt maritime. And then by the afternoon, it was a
stereotypical spring. It was beautiful. You know, you could hear
the birds. You could see the squirrels jump around. You
would go outside. And according to experts, if you go outside,
(02:53):
you need sunscreen. And Parker wrote to us recently. Parker,
you had a suggestion specifically about sunscreen. And without spoiling
the letter here. you said the story of sunscreen goes
(03:14):
deeper in a way that you thought might interest your
fellow listeners. And before we jump into the facts here, guys,
I just wanted to ask you all, like, what's your
experience with sunscreen? You know, experts recommend that you wear
it every day, every time that you're outside. And I
(03:35):
feel like, being somewhat of a troglodyte, which means cave
person myself, I feel like I definitely do not do
that because the sun is my ancient nemesis. How about
you guys? I burn.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I'm a pale boy. I just kind of go for
whichever sunscreen has like the most aluminum in it. I
feel like that's the one that's going to protect me
the best.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Hmm.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Interesting call. OK, yeah, I you know, yeah, I grew
up being covered in the stuff and I actually began
to resent the whole. OK, it's been it's been an
hour in the sun. Come on over here. Let's get
your back again. That's my mom probably speaking.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And your dad's in the background going, grease him up.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, my dad. My dad just he doesn't burn. And
I don't understand it. He just doesn't burn.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Is he a leathery man?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
He's a leatherman. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But but I always
burned like crazy. I would get crazy burns like the
stuff that no one wants to see, even in a
horror movie. And it, you know, it, I just didn't
like the process. So later in life, I don't really
wear sunscreen, but I wonder, Ben, like you, you have
(04:51):
a lot of travels. If you just end up somewhere
where you realize, oh man, I should probably be wearing
sunscreen for this. What is your go-to? Like, what do you,
how do you make a decision about what to get?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Ah, got it. That's an interesting question. That's a, that's
a bit of a setup there. And I greatly appreciate it. Um, First,
it's like that old story of what do you do
when you find yourself in the woods? Your first step
is to ask yourself, what the hell did I do
wrong to find myself in the woods? Yes, sunscreen is, again,
(05:24):
there are so many types, but it's recommended in general,
wherever you live, whoever you are, if you are spending
time outside during the day. Here are the facts. Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Let's start right there.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It's cool.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
It didn't answer my question, but it's cool. Let's go.
Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Do you feel like I did not answer your question
as to so specifically then before you get into the
facts to answer your question? Yes. Depending, depending on the environment,
even I would keep sunscreen of some sort, but I
would typically I have to find some sort of natural
(06:07):
alternative to something store-bought, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Got you. Oh, totally. That makes a ton of sense.
I guess the only reason I wanted to talk about
it is because I don't know if this is what
you out there listening do, but I'll find myself in a,
you know, depending on which city I'm in, just a
store that sells sunscreen. And I will just grab something.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And I don't spend a ton of time thinking about
what it is. I go for a higher number just
because I am rather pale. But like I don't make
an informed decision ever.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like if you're if
you're going to a beach and you don't live by
a beach and you stop in at the. We'll just
fictionally call it the beach store. You stop in at
beach store or Panama Jacks or whatever it's going to
be called. Ron John, perhaps? Ron John. Yes. Yeah. It's
like a surf store. The surf store. Well, that's fine.
(07:00):
It's the same thing as the beach store. Hopefully, the
beach store and surf store owners who are listening to
the show right now will forgive us for conflating them unfairly,
if indeed we have. But you go in, you get
your beach towel, and you're like, I need my flip-flops
that I am inevitably going to lose or my children
will inevitably lose in the course of this pandemic. shore
(07:25):
shoreside adventure and then yes you grab you grab sunscreen
because you probably didn't bring it from home right uh
for many people and you're in a hurry because you
want to get to the beach right you want to
confront the infinity that is the horizon of the ocean
yes i uh i understand what you're saying now i
originally was thinking you meant like lost in the wilderness
(07:50):
somewhere off the grid, but you mean going, you mean
going somewhere recreationally. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I assume many of us have just ended up at
a beach at some point for some, for one reason
or another. Yeah. And the big takeaway here is that
maybe a lot of us don't know or think much
about sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
We read the label. You see SPF, And you think,
I want the highest number. Why would somebody buy a
lower number? They're the same price. They're probably a few
dollars more. But it does feel weird, right? Like you're
looking at the range of SPFs and you're thinking, well.
(08:38):
I want full protection.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Protect me from the sun's cancerous rays. you know, give
me the super powered stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Right. Right.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And just slightly alternatively, my wife is Cuban and she
doesn't like to wear full, like the full sunscreen. So
she gets the stuff that's like SPF four and they
call it like bronzing or, you know, these things that
like are supposed to help protect.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
A little, a tan, like a copper tone kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. The, um,
the it's, it's funny that, that we're talking about this
at the very beginning because, um, I don't know about
anybody else, but I was always confused by the idea
that a company would know it could make the best
thing and then sell a lesser version of that thing.
(09:24):
And it happens in every industry, right? It's like, it's
weird that, um, you know, if you know that they're like,
if you are just picking things out of the blue,
like if you were Apple and why do you sell
multiple versions of the same computer when you know that
you could just, you could just sell the best one.
And then everybody would like, I get it. I understand
(09:47):
the economics of it. It just, it always felt strange
to me. And I think that's the same kind of
disconnect people experience when they run into sunscreen, but the
difference between sunscreen and a lot of those a lot
of other consumer products yes folks spoiler this is a
(10:07):
consumer products kind of episode and there is there are
a number of conspiracies afoot the difference between sunscreen and
a lot of other products is especially in the world
of skincare and makeup, is that sunscreen works. There is
scientific basis to it. It's not some kind of like,
woo woo, we had an angel sneeze on these pomegranate
(10:32):
leaves and then we rolled it up with, like, the
farts of puppies, and then we made it a cream,
and we sprayed it, and if you walk through it
at noon, your eye wrinkles will dissipate or something like that.
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Well,
you know, people will do a lot if they feel
(10:54):
like they're combating aging. That's true.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, it's all industry, the idea of slowing down the
hands of father time. And, you know, like cosmetic surgery
is probably the most extreme example of that. But so
many products, beauty products, skincare lines, where there is a
lot of snake oil wrapped up in it. And, you know, sure,
there's testimonials and things like that. But it's true, Ben.
(11:20):
I think it's a really good point that Sunscreen and
the whole idea of SPF and the gradations of that
is absolutely a scientifically proven thing that benefits you and
keeps those harmful rays from penetrating that sweet, sweet dermis.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So let's talk about it. Here are the facts. What
exactly is sunscreen? Well, it turns out sunscreen is kind
of like a cross, a very tiny cross we wave
at a very big vampire, and it protects you kind of,
because if you think about the normal day, the beautiful
(12:00):
spring that's occurring in Atlanta, you realize it's happening because
of some very scary stuff. We are... Right next to,
astronomically speaking, an enormous dying star. And it is screaming
as it dies in terms of energy. It is responsible
for the continued existence of life on Earth. It is amazing.
(12:24):
It is crucial. It is dangerous. And since ancient times,
human beings have been aware of this. And they've been like, hey,
this thing, right? creates the food that we eat, and
it also feels like it would kill us if it
was close enough. As a matter of fact, even if
(12:44):
we stand around it, it starts to mess with the
way we look and the way we feel. We have
to figure something out.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, and humans have been coming up with ways to
prevent the sun from harming them for millennia. And really,
you know, one of the best ones is to go
the troglodyte route. Stay inside as much as you can,
you know, and hunt when you have to and at
(13:11):
certain times. But other things have been really treatments, salves
that have been created, things to actually put on the
skin to stop the burning a lot of times, and
then other times to actually prevent the burning from happening
in the first place.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
And.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
It's all to stop this tiny little sliver of the
light spectrum, essentially, called ultraviolet.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, you definitely want to block that stuff because it
can give you all varieties of skin cancer. In addition
to just, you know, causing general wear and tear on
your skin overall, just, you know, from the effects.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Of the sun.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
But yeah, it's something that has been on the minds
of humans since ancient times when folks, you know, already
were aware of these effects, these damaging effects that the
sun could have on the human body. In early civilizations,
folks developed some kind of more holistic remedies, I guess,
for treating the sun. They didn't really have science, but
(14:12):
they had trial and error. And in ancient Greece, for example,
they used olive oil. In Egypt, they would use extracts
of jasmine and rice and other plants and just, you know,
like you said, Matt, rub it on their body and
kind of like a poultice or a salve. And for
thousands of years, people have also used the element zinc,
(14:36):
zinc oxide in a paste form. And it's actually still
a very important ingredient in modern sunscreen.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It's true. You find something that works, you stick with
what works, right? This is inarguably, before we get into
the messed up parts of this idea, this is inarguably
a good idea. We're going to get into some messed
up stuff today. So it's important to note at the
(15:06):
offset here that sunscreen is in general a good idea.
Protecting yourself from the sun, obviously I'm very biased because
I see it as an antagonist, but still everyone can
agree protecting yourself and your loved ones from the sun.
I know I sound very pro-vampire right now. It's still
(15:26):
important because sunscreen doesn't just protect you from that very small,
dangerous sliver of the spectrum that you're describing, Matt, it
can also, while doing that, it lowers your risk of
some very nasty forms of skin cancer. It can prevent
(15:48):
premature aging of the skin. And if you are sensitive
about your skin and then this can assist in maintaining
what would be called an even skin tone, meaning it will,
if you are freckle prone like Matt and myself, then
(16:08):
sunscreen will reduce your freckle ratio, right? Yeah, you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I got quite a lot of freckles on my arms,
not so much on my face, but tons of arm freckles.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
It's weird. You know, freckles, it's a weird thing. I
don't understand. It's like I can tan incredibly intensely in
these tiny circles.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah freckles it's a weird thing i agree i agree
freckles are strange but but so like if you hate
freckles sunscreen is great for you right that's that's what
an even skin tone probably let's that's a good way
to explain even skin tone.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So ancient times olive oil like noel said jasmine rice
extracts all the hits uh The story of modern sunscreen,
or what we call modern sunscreen, really starts in the 1930s,
kicks into high gear in 1944. There's a guy from Florida.
He's an airman, and he's a pharmacist. His name is
(17:08):
Benjamin Green, and he does something necessary but kind of gross.
He takes something called Red Vet Pets, which is a
short cutesy name for red veterinary petrolatum. So think of
like Vaseline. He takes this kind of Vaseline that comes
(17:31):
from the world of veterinary medicine and he slathers it
on himself and he's like talking to his fellow soldiers
and he's slathering on them during World War II and
he's like, the sun's going to kill us. We need
to protect ourselves. So they're slimy soldiers now.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
That's pretty gross, dude.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Oh, man.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Can I take a tiny diversion real quick just to
bring up a lovely piece of pop culture surrounding sunscreen?
I don't know if you guys remember the song, the
Baz Luhrmann song, Everybody's Free to Wear Sunscreen, which was
actually featured in the opening sequence of season one. two
or three of The Sopranos, but it's taken from a
(18:16):
column by Mary Schmick from the Chicago Tribune on June
1st of 1997, titled Advice Like Youth, Probably Just Wasting.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
On the Young. And it gives all these pieces of advice.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's meant to be like a commencement speech for a
graduating class that does not exist.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
She didn't actually give this.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
But it repeats the recommendation of wear sunscreen with other
little pithy pieces of advice. And there was actually like
an urban legend uh, that Kurt Vonnegut had delivered. This
is a commencement speech at MIT, uh, in 1987, but
that was totally not true. It's almost like a Mandela
effect kind of situation. Uh, Kurt Vonnegut even said when
he was pressed to like reprint this amazing speech that
(18:56):
he made, um, that he, uh, would proudly have taken
credit for the words if they were his, but, uh,
check out that song. If you get a chance, it's
a lot, a lot of fun and it's very inspiring.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah. The, um, the thing that's described in that song
is not red vet pet, right?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Um, Right.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So so again, slimy soldiers, this is gross, gross stuff.
There's not a ton of science behind it other than
it being able to stick to the skin and function,
stick to human skin and function as a physical barrier
between the skin and the sun. I am holding a
(19:34):
very anti-sun position, but I have never deviated from this position.
You are consistently anti-sun. Well, please, please, let's just all
be aware of my bias, which is survival-based.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Why Red Vet Pet? Is it like petroleum? Or is
it like a slightly different substance? That's really interesting. Petrolatum.
I bet it's a petroleum-based substance.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, it's Vaseline, basically.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
The non-name-brand... or the non proprietary eponym is, is, would be, uh,
slimy and shiny soldiers. Yes. Slimy and shiny. And after
the war, after world war two, Benjamin green classes up
his act. He adds coconut oil to this. He adds
(20:27):
cocoa butter. It's getting fancy. Uh, this eventually will become
what is known as Coppertone suntan cream, which, um, you know, Matt,
earlier you were describing the idea of getting a little
bit of protection from the sun, but also helping yourself
acquire a tan, right? A general sheen about oneself. That's
(20:51):
what Coppertone is doing. And then at this time, there's
still no SPF. Like the one thing people care about
when they read a label on sunscreen today is SPF.
And that's doesn't exist until about the roundabouts in the 1970s. Yep.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
And as we said, it's just a way to measure
and to show consumers exactly how much of those UV
rays are being blocked or what percentage. That's not a percentage, though.
That's not what the rating says. It becomes a tough
thing to even talk about. It is a percentage of
UV blocking power, but it's represented in a weird scale
(21:37):
that doesn't really make that much sense.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
It's not super intuitive.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It measures the amount that gets through rather than the
amount that's blocked, right?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, so like SPF 15, it's like a measure over time.
So what it means is that 1 15th of harmful
radiation from that evil dying star will reach your skin. Uh,
in that, so you're like, okay, I've protected myself against
(22:06):
14 of 15. Yes. Death rays from this space monster.
And that works as long as I have applied this at, um,
an even rate, which never happens, uh, of two milligrams
(22:27):
per centimeter of human skin. And then the person wearing
it has to change that every two hours, right? They
have to re-up. Just like Matt's parents called him over
and greased him up again.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
That's always what it felt like. Let's grease you up
for a while.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
They wanted you to have a good time at the beach. Today,
this is a massive industry. As research continued, sunscreen evolved.
So if you walk into your beach store or your
surf store, you will see multiple types of sunscreen, multiple brands,
water resistant stuff or stuff that purports to have sunscreen.
(23:10):
an amazingly high SPF. You'll also see broader spectrums of protection, right?
Like UVA, UVB protection, protecting you from both long and
short range ultraviolet rays. So far, so good, right? Well, no. Unfortunately,
when it comes to sunscreen, there is some stuff they
(23:33):
don't want you to know. We'll pause for a word
from our sponsors. Get greased up over here. We'll be back.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I definitely missed a part of my back.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Like, you know, right on the shoulders. Like sometimes you
ever get a sunburn where you can see your fingers. Yeah.
Where you kind of messed up.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
The last time I tried to apply sunscreen, I realized
I hadn't done it in a long time. And I
did a really bad job. And I just had like,
you know, the white, the really creamy white kind that
you really have to rub in to make it disappear.
I got it all over my beard and it just
wasn't rubbed in at all. And I looked like a
freaking idiot. So, you know, applying sunscreen takes practice.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Gotta know what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Here's where it gets crazy. There are issues here. There
are two big issues. And Parker wrote to us about
one that maybe unfamiliar to a lot of our listeners
outside of the world of makeup or skincare, and that's
corruption in the sunscreen industry. Parker wrote to us specifically
(24:43):
about something called Purito Centella Green Level Unscented Sun, which, spoilers,
fellow conspiracy realists, None of us knew about. None of
us had that light bulb moment where we said, oh, oh, no, burrito.
What happened to burrito?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, I was. I really didn't know if it was
pure burrito or burrito because I was hungry and I
thought about. Burritos is a burrito like a burrito for cats.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
OK, I'm done.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
No, but this is such a ridiculous name. It almost
feels like it needs a red vet pet type such
type shortening. But there really is nothing you can do
with burritos and tell a green level unscented sun.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So really, it's got to like power through it. But
apparently this was like really popular, right? It was like
known as.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
The internet's favorite sunscreen. But it kind of got lampooned
a bit on social media when a study revealed that
they were not being particularly honest about the level of
protection that it offered.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So imagine you're at your beach store, you're at your
surf store, or you're just a person who takes care
of their skin. Like, obviously, none of us do on
this show. Look at us. Yeah, right? So you go
to this. No, we look okay, I think. Yeah, thanks, bud.
I think we look okay. So anyway, you're a hypothetical person,
(26:07):
no specific person. You care about your skin because you
want to be alive and not have skin cancer, and
you want to look relatively good. So you grab this stuff,
this green-level unscented sunscreen, Because it has SPF 50. Well,
a study came out that revealed this was not the
(26:30):
actual case. If you look at the ingredients, if you
take that stuff to a lab and you test for SPF,
you'll find that it has an SPF of 19, less
than half of the 50 it claims. Yikes. Yeah, and
we know that the experiments or the study that revealed
this is legit. It comes from something called INCI Decoder.
(26:57):
Let's put aside the question of whether this was like
purposely misleading or whether this was honestly a mistake or
a negligence issue. The thing is, this opens a door
to a much wider problem. It's not like one brand
of this sunscreen, is it?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This goes across
the spectrum here. There was a Consumer Reports report that
came out not that long ago, and it found that...
36 out of 53 sunscreens that it tested did not
(27:37):
have the SPF level represented. So it was lower than
what was represented on the bottle of spray or the
lotion or the bar that you're going to put on yourself,
whatever it was, it was a lower SPF than it
claimed to be.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
How is the FDA not involved in this? Like you'd
think there'd be like sample testing to ensure that that
there is truth in advertising for these types of products
in the same way that, you know, drugs are regulated.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Well, here's the thing. There are a ton of reasons
why this could happen, right? It could be a single batch, right,
that maybe the SPF wasn't quite right, and maybe that's
just it. You tested a bad batch. You know, maybe
there are standards that are falling. There are a lot
of reasons.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, which are not necessarily– There are also loopholes around
kind of the government regulation or standards, right? Like how
do you test stuff? When do you test stuff? Which
is probably one of the biggest deals here. For instance,
if we think of the U.S. and other manufacturers, right,
(28:45):
from different countries here, then you can get around loopholes
by just taking off SPF. It's like, oh, hey, no, no,
we're not doing a sunscreen thing. We have some of
the ingredients, but we're not claiming it. Now we're just,
you know, now we're just good time sun lotions. No promises, right?
(29:07):
That's the motto. No promises.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
No promises. But again, as we said before, and I
think this is true, one of the biggest purchasing factors
for a consumer is that giant SPF label and number, right?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
So I appreciate the point you were making, Matt, which
is that this doesn't necessarily mean manufacturers are bad actors.
There could be bad storage, like you said, variations between batches.
different testing standards that's huge. Also, yes, counterfeit. yes fabrication
(29:43):
of testing results which is a little bit easier to
do than you might think.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I want to just we're gonna talk about this later
in the episode but we just kind of we've been
mentioned the storage of the substance and how that can
have be a factor and We have found in the
research that that is a major factor for some sunscreens
and the chemicals that are inside of them.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Oh, buddy, yeah. Expiration dates are not just for food
in your grocery store. So we can't, if we're being
absolutely fair, we can't say all of these companies are
lying to you. They're pawns of big sun and they
want you to burn. What we can say instead is
that the burden... the burden of informed consent is placed
(30:32):
on the consumer here. Parker sent this great article by
a writer named Rio Vera Newton, writing for The Strategist
in New York Magazine, and this author notes the impact
actual way to figure out what you're buying what you're
paying for and it it's some work you'd have to
(30:55):
be like if you're standing in front of sunscreen in
the grocery aisle or wherever at your beach store your
surf store that you would have to be on your
phone for a few minutes because you have to look
up a product's name or what's called an ndc number
which is a 10 digit number i know how how
how juicy is this right it's kind of dry it's
a 10 digit code that identifies drugs, labeler, product, and
(31:20):
trade package size on something called ndclist.com. And why do
you have to look up this crazy 10-digit number, this
like VIN, this V-I-N of a bottle of sunscreen? Because
that number verifies the FDA registration, the question you asked earlier, Noel,
(31:42):
and it shows that it's gone through testing in the U.S.,
That's not the whole step. The next step Rio says
is you have to go to consumer reports, which has
a lot of research on sunscreen and you have to
compare these. So at this point you are like at
least 12 minutes deep. in the sunscreen system on your
(32:05):
phone in front of the people are going to the
beach without you. You know what I mean? Yep.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Maybe just like use a parasol instead, you know, or
a big floppy hat.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
That probably helps.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
But sunscreen is definitely a part of the skincare industry, right?
Even certain skin creams or moisturizers, for example, or like
various products, they'll have some form of sunscreen in them
or will offer some sort of SPF protection, even if
it's not just purely sun lotion. And there are absolutely
(32:42):
important and positive qualities to this product. It can, in fact,
stop those those ultraviolet rays from penetrating your skin and
causing cancer. That is unless it actually can cause cancer,
depending on what goes into the stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
And we'll pause on that cliffhanger. We have to pause there.
We'll be back after a word from our sponsor. And
we are back. We are still standing with you. In
our hypothetical beach surf shop, which we'll call it.
(33:27):
What should we call it? Ron Jon. Pauly Shores? I'm sorry, guys.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I keep harping on Ron Jon. I think people that
aren't from this part of the country don't even know
what that is. But I think it's a Myrtle Beach thing.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Or it's like, yeah. There's a shark. And I just
remember the t-shirts when I was a kid. It's a
nostalgia thing for me. Plus, it's fun to say Ron Jon.
But I love Pauly Shores. That's way better.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Well, they can all exist. You know, Myrtle Beach has
a booming economy. Right? So, like, there are a lot
of stores.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, it turns out 40% of their gross domestic product
comes from airbrushed T-shirts.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Right? And that's just the gross. So we're at Pauly Shores. Paul,
I'm sorry. You drew the short surf straw on this one.
We're standing with you in this aisle. We're already spending
a lot of time trying to figure out What's happening
(34:21):
with this sunscreen? Is that SPF real, right? Because we
know it turns out for one reason or another, it
is often not what it purports to be. There's a
second problem. There have been multiple claims over the years.
You're thinking about this, right? Let's just get into this scenario.
You're thinking about this, you're looking at the sunscreen, and
(34:44):
you're on your phone, and you found this stuff, and
consumer reports, and blah, blah, blah, and you think, okay,
I've I found one that I think is going to work.
And then some dude breezes past you in flip flops
and cargo shorts. And he says, you know, he's a
bit of a Leatherman. And he says, don't fall for it, kid.
(35:06):
That stuff gives you cancer. There have been so many
claims in the past. that sunscreen itself, particularly the chemicals
in it, the active ingredients, can in fact harm your body,
harm your various systems, and in some cases become carcinogenic,
(35:34):
create cancerous conditions. Maybe not skin cancer, so maybe in
avoiding skin cancer, you are suffering from another type of
cancer because of the active ingredients in these substances is
that true let's see let's go to the experts right
(35:56):
let's go to the experts so that cargo shorts guy
breezes past drop some drop some conspiracy knowledge on you
on his way to get um What are those things
that go on your upper arm?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Floaties?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, on his way to get floaties. All right.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
All right. All right. Choosing that one. Well, guess what?
That one that one causes cancer, buddy. Don't don't use
that one. I got to get these floaties over here.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
That's pretty good, Matt.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Sorry. I've been watching his new YouTube channel recently.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Matthew McConaughey's YouTube channel. You know, he I saw this amazing,
insightful interview with him. I don't know. He's a smart dude.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Dude's going to be running Texas before you know it.
It's coming.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I have no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Probably one of my most shining moments in podcasting was
I got to be on a call with Matthew McConaughey.
It wasn't video, but that voice, man, unmistakable. He was
pitching a podcast. Obviously, he went the YouTube route. Hey,
there's still time and room.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
To a podcast okay sorry um no let's go you
go to the experts right you don't that guy you
can't trust that guy not not mcconaughey but the dude
that was there in the store who knows played.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
By mcconaughey clearly yeah yeah we have established that in
this scenario.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
But uh you know you can't take somebody's just quick
offhand comment as fact. So you got to look to
the experts. What are they saying? Well, here's the deal.
You're looking at studies from experts or at least scientists
or people who are researchers who are spending a lot
of time and effort to get results, maybe, or maybe
(37:36):
they're working for a company or maybe they're working against
a company. Because what you end up looking at when
you're when you're researching this stuff is that you've got
some folks saying that these studies are legitimate. And then others,
a lot of experts saying these, a lot of the
studies that say some of these things are essentially misinformation
(37:58):
or disinformation. Like it's not right. And it's the results
that are being regurgitated, you know, just in spoken about
are actually mischaracterized.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah. So, Let's take, for example, Dr. Jennifer Lin, who
is an assistant professor of dermatology at Harvard Medical School,
co-director of Melanoma Risk and Prevention Clinic. She has an
insightful response about some of the kind of alarmist or
fear-mongering reports here, specifically about oxybenzone. And she says there
(38:33):
has been no conclusive evidence that oxybenzone is harmful to humans.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Asterisk.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
And she notes something that happens in a lot of
studies and a lot of pop science. You'll hear a
study that says like, insert substance X or substance so-and-so
has been found to cause cancer in mammals or, you know,
to somehow like have a deleterious effect on you. But
(39:02):
they don't talk about how that study was conducted or
what actually happened. So Dr. Lin points out that organizations
that have raised concerns about oxybenzone cite studies that were
done on rats, which are not human yet, and that
rats were physically fed oxybenzone. They weren't shaving the rats
(39:26):
and then putting sunscreen on them. They were forcing them
to eat this stuff. And according to Dr. Lin, it would, quote,
take an individual human being, I imagine, 277 years of
sunscreen use to achieve the same dose that produced the
harmful effects in these rats. And that's based on a
study from the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
(39:49):
in 2017. But think carefully, right?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
2017.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
It's a number of years ago.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah, four almost.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
So what changes? This is the second big issue. There's
a recent study that came out, 2021. It turns out
that sunscreen, the stuff you use to prevent skin cancer
from exposure to sunlight, might actually, yes, have a chance
of giving you cancer. That's the claim people are making.
(40:24):
This study, which was by several French and U.S. scientists
looked at skincare brands overall, L'Oreal, Neutrogena, Bioderma, like the
big ones. Picture the big brands of skincare. It looked
at all of these, and it looked especially at something
(40:44):
called octocrylene.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Octocrylene. Sounds interesting. It's a chemical, right? And this is
kind of weird. It's a bit difficult to navigate because
octocrylene isn't necessarily the issue, the bad thing, that octocrylene itself.
What happens is over time, it degrades into something called benzophenone.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah. And benzophenone is the, um, think of it like
the final form, right? Think of it, think of it like, um,
If octocrylene is the mogwai, benzophenone is the gremlin. Wow,
that's actually pretty, not a bad comparison.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
You just feed it time. Don't feed it time.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yes, don't feed it time.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
This is weird.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
So octocrylene is already controversial. in a number of places
due to concerns about its effect not on humans, but
on the overall environment. It's been banned in a couple
of places, including Hawaii and the U.S. Virgin Islands. This
study did something pretty neat. They said, we need to
(41:56):
figure out what happens to sunscreen when it's just left
on a shelf. Because think about it, the sunscreen you
probably buy is not uh refrigerated or something like that
you know what i mean it's not like in a
cool dry cellar or something like it's just it's on
the shelf next to the flip-flops next to the towels
next to the floaties etc.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
And it's been sitting in poly shores for a while
and it's been in poly shores for a while uh
might even have some visible dust on the top of
the cap This study used an artificial aging process to
replicate that passage of time to show what like to
show what happens to these products when they've sat on
(42:40):
a shelf at Pauly Shores for around a year, ballpark
a year.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
The thing is that the concentration of this chemical, this
harmful chemical is increases the longer it sits on that shelf.
So we're reading SPF, but what you should be reading
is the expiration date. According to FDA regulations, sunscreen has
(43:06):
a shelf life of three years. Oh, wow. Yeah, but
this study shows if it's on that shelf for a year,
depending if this one thing, this octocrylene is in it,
then it is slowly kind of Jekyll and hiding into
the thing that is very easily absorbed by your skin
that you very much do not want in your body.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
And it gets worse over time. I believe the concentration
can actually increase the longer that you leave it on
the shelf. So it's very, very important to keep a
close eye on those expiration dates.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
And this stuff, by the way, Benzophenone is banned for
use as an ingredient in food or an ingredient in cosmetics.
So it's not there. It's not legally allowed to be
in that bottle of whatever you buy. And it's more
than sunscreen, by the way. There was a study in
(44:05):
the 1990s that found just how successfully this stuff is
absorbed by the skin And it makes a pretty solid
argument to, before regulation, you know, to prohibit this chemical
from being included in stuff like sunscreen or shampoo or perfume.
(44:26):
But the problem goes even further. Octocrylene has not met
those FDA regulations for safety or effectiveness. Still, I think
it still hasn't. Like as of February 2019, as of
two years ago, this stuff was still not meeting the
(44:46):
guidelines from the FDA, which means that if you wore
sunscreen anytime before 2019, depending on what you bought, the
odds aren't looking great. Unless you like rolled in mud,
hippo or elephant style to protect yourself from the sun,
(45:06):
you probably got some of this stuff in you. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
And let's talk really quickly a little more about the
Hawaii banning, because that just occurred. Hawaii just passed legislation
that banned two chemicals in sunscreens. I'll actually pull up
the Senate bill here. Center for Biological Diversity sent this
out on March 9th of this year, 2021, and they
(45:32):
are banning two petrochemicals within sunscreens. avobenzone and octocrylene and
the two of the biggest things that came out of
this or one of the biggest reasons that they're banning
it is because they've found that these chemicals are actually
bleaching the coral reefs around Hawaii these chemicals are coming
(45:57):
off of people's skin when the sunscreen is applied to
them and hurting the environment to that like having a
huge effect on the environment that's That's a big deal,
and they're chemicals that you're putting on your body directly
that's being absorbed, as Ben said.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
It's not a super sunny proposition. I will never forgive
myself for that one. You're absolutely right, Matt. It's important
to note that this process, which has been proven by
this study, or there's a strong argument that it occurs
fairly commonly, This process was welcomed by people who believed
(46:38):
previous myths or mischaracterizations about ugly chemicals in skincare products.
So it kind of fed the fire, right? It turned
out there was a grain of truth to some of
the allegations or some of the suspicions and rumors that
According to Dr. Sharon Lohan, this stuff, benzophenone, is the
(47:03):
worst offender in causing contact dermatitis. It can also induce anaphylaxis,
and it is classified as carcinogenic by the International Agency
for Research on Cancer, which is part of the World
Health Organization. So people are aware of this. People are
aware of this, including the industry. In 2019, almost 3,000
(47:29):
different like products, which is such a vague term, but
3,000 like, you know, kinds of shampoo, kinds of sunscreen,
kinds of, I'm guessing here, what's another skin thing? Moisturizer?
Is that? Okay.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Cetaphil is a real popular one. It's really apparently quite
important to moisturize every day. I don't do it every day,
but I try to get to it when I remember. Um,
but yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
So there's another thing that happened, which was the, um,
you know, these stories pop up with like, uh, you've
heard about it before, uh, rat feces in cereal. Right.
And I don't know if you guys remember that when
there was a long time story where people would say, actually,
the FDA allows a certain amount of rat feces in cereal. Uh,
(48:17):
there's only so much you can do. You can't, you
can't ever have 0% rat poop cereal. Right.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
It's like the idea of a grade E meat at
Taco Bell containing some percentage of rat meat or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Exactly. The idea being that it's legal, but it's a
loophole that a lot of people don't know about. Like
someone in the industry is saying, okay, all right, Uncle Sam. Clearly,
if there was anyone able to make cereal with 0%
rat feces, they would put that on the front of
the box, right? It'd be like right next to the
(48:50):
Raisin Bran. There's the no rat poop.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
What am I going to do? Get all the rats
out of here?
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Oh, come on.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
I'm making cereal here.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
We're a cereal company, not an exterminator service, sir. I'm
just thinking, like, is that, what kind of integration, what
kind of integration is that where you say, you know,
we started off making cereal. add all this rat poop
in it. And we were like, is this a feature?
(49:23):
Is this a bug? A long story short, we killed
the rats, sold the meat to Taco Bell. We kept
the poop. We got two scoops of it. Raisin bread.
Apparently by Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I come to you once more to tell you that
there are definitely three scoops of raisins in every box.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Of Raisin Bran.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
So three scoops, they went up, huh?
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Is it only two? Well, that third scoop is rat poop.
So this, we are hopefully joking, but it is true
that something similar has happened with the sunscreen industry. the
French Federation of Beauty Enterprises, an industry organization, a trade organization,
(50:10):
responded to this study and they basically said, yeah, we know.
We know that this octocrylene is in here. We know
that it turns into this dangerous chemical. But look at
the study. They said these are always below the toxicity
thresholds that are safe for human health, which is a
(50:33):
lot like saying, you know, you can eat a couple
spiders in your oatmeal. You can have a little bit
of rat poop. You can have a little bit of
rat poop as a treat. Well, even as a treat.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Indeed.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Even like, you know, in regulation of fisheries, you know,
and wildlife and certain allowable amounts of pollution and water,
like there are mercury plants warnings you know for certain
bodies of water because it absorbs into the fish but
there also is an allowable level of mercury which seems
(51:06):
like it would be zero but it's not zero but
also we are talking like you know parts per million
or billion in some cases so you know there is
truth to this even as squeamish as it sounds to
say toxicity thresholds or the idea of things that are
acceptable for human health it certainly makes you cringe but
I mean it's not untrue right Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
I mean, you're talking about something happening at scale. You
know what I mean? How can any organization keep its
eye on every falling sparrow of a contaminant? It's quite difficult.
But in this case, toxicity levels or thresholds aside, like
(51:49):
the reason that this trade organization responded by pointing out
these thresholds and saying, yeah, this stuff is dangerous, but
it's not dangerous in the amounts that are found by
the study. It's because it is virtually impossible to regulate
(52:11):
a bunch of these things effectively. But in this case,
there's like clearly one that clearly transforms into this other thing.
And no one's saying change the recipe. What they're saying
is it's okay because there's not enough of it there,
(52:31):
which is like saying, hey, at this point, the rat
poop is part of the cereal. You know what I mean?
It's part of the ingredients here. We're going to take
it out? Yeah. That would destroy Raisin Bran. We're going
to get a letter from Raisin Bran.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Well, it's still my favorite cereal. So no matter how
much poop is in there. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
What are you also like, you eat grape nuts too,
old man? I don't like grape nuts. Oh God. Uh,
sorry grape nuts i just don't and i'm not into
it but raisin bran specifically i think it's raisin crunchy
raisin bran or whatever it is does it have.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
The clusters you like the one with the nut clusters.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Dude all okay i just don't like raisins yeah i
find i'm not a raisin zombie grapes these raisins are
zombie grapes they're useless fruit they're the lich kings of grapes.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Now, I like a crazen.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I do like a crazen, which is essentially the same process, Ben.
But for some reason, a raisin just doesn't do it
for me. Don't like our oatmeal raisin cookie? Like an
oatmeal cookie. Put the raisins in there. Entirely different cookie.
Different experience.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
Yeah. Yeah, oatmeal raisin cookies.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Sorry, Matt.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Sorry we're raisin shaming you, Matt.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
I feel like we're ganging up on you. No, it's
more raisins for you, man.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
Thank you, guys. You can have that third scoop. Oatmeal
raisin really is my favorite cookie.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
That's wild.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
Are you serious?
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I feel like I'm not a big cookie person, but
any time I see a cookie that I assume is
chocolate chip and it turns out it's like oatmeal raisin,
I feel swindled.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
I feel like the, the, the motto for it's like
oatmeal raisin. This is settling. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (54:20):
Like it's a cookie. Look, my grandfather used to make
me cinnamon raisin toast all the time when I would
go visit him. And I have such a special place
in my heart for that. I then developed a psychological
connection to raisins and cinnamon and That's where my oatmeal
raisin thing and even my raisin brand, it all just goes.
It's all caught up in there.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Well, Matt, it's like, look, yeah, there's no shaming here.
I just if now that I know this, I am
going to be like much more cognizant of. where raisins
and oatmeal raisin cookies should go like check your desk
later because anytime i get one of these it's going
(55:02):
straight to you man that's the best i can do
like i also the the sense i we're going somewhere
with this folks the the sense of taste and preference
for what you eat is inherently tied into memory it's
tied into smell it's tied into texture many of like Smell, actually,
(55:26):
much more so than taste. That brings your memories. That's
why we have such visceral reactions to concepts of food.
That's also why this entire time you were hearing this episode,
some part of you was smelling sunscreen. Yep. Which is weird.
That's like Morgan Freeman saying, you read this whole thing
(55:48):
in my voice.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Well, so, Ben, when you say smelling sunscreen, I mean,
surely there are scents and perfumes that are added to
some sunscreens. But there is that quintessential sunscreen smell. Is
that the chemicals that we're smelling that really make it
have that distinct kind of like nostalgic quality? And then
you've got ones that smell like coconut, but they still
(56:12):
have that certain little twinge of a chemical smell.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
It's that cocoa butter and coconut oil, man. You're right.
That's what it is. It's the original.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
The red vet pet set. Get that.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
All the other words.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Yeah, that's it. It's true. There there is this nostalgic factor.
There is a sense memory. And part of that part
of the reason that feeling is ubiquitous is is because
sunscreen does work, and it's because people do need to
(56:49):
use it or use something like it. You know what
I mean? Sunscreen, the concept of sunscreen, is what I
would call a non-human invention, by which I mean before
human beings became what are called human beings today, there
were other animals before. who figured this out, right? They said,
we need to protect ourselves from the sun. We'll roll
(57:11):
in the mud. We'll go under the water, et cetera,
et cetera. This is an ancient thing. And it's a
thing that many creatures on earth need. But there is
also an industry that is possibly creating other problems by
fixing the one it's focused on. And so, as we said,
the burden falls on the consumer. The best thing you
(57:34):
can do is read the label carefully. I know it's
cool to meet Matthew McConaughey when he glides by in
cargo shorts and floaties and then maybe clowns you. And
I know it's awkward to be on your phone for
10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes in front of the sunscreen aisle,
but maybe it's worth the time. It is indeed well said.
Speaker 2 (57:56):
I did want to point out one thing just because
I referenced it jokingly at the top of the show
saying I might sunscreen of choice would be the one
that has the most aluminum in it.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
That is a thing.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
There was a study at Keele University in Stratfordshire back
in 2007 where they took six samples of six different
brands of sunscreen and found pretty alarming levels of aluminum
in them. The World Health Organization recommends applying sunscreen 35
(58:26):
milliliters of sunscreen to get, you know, the actual benefit
of it and then also reapplying it. And according to
the study for these particular brands, it would essentially amount
to putting 200 milligrams of aluminum on your skin.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
And aluminum salts are permeable. You know, they can be
absorbed by the skin.
Speaker 2 (58:49):
And potentially, you know, it's not like a sure thing
cancer causer, but it's certainly not good for you.
Speaker 1 (58:55):
This was back in 2007, though.
Speaker 2 (58:56):
So surely there's been some movement is I know there
was also like, I think certain antiperspirants definitely have some
chemicals that people are freaked out by because, you know,
there's certain.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
People that want to use the ones that like really
don't work because they don't.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Have the the bad stuff in them um but they're
still like the ones that are like white and you
know completely dry out your armpit sorry for that image
there but just wanted to mention that because the aluminum.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
Thing i said at the top of the show that
that was not just something i made up and then
yeah as you said but it is it's on it's
on us To figure it out. Unless you live in
a state like Hawaii that straight up banned it. Because,
you know, they pointed to older and newer studies and
even studies that have yet to be published on some
of these chemicals that we discussed today and what could
(59:44):
be happening. They even mentioned disrupting human hormones.
Speaker 1 (59:49):
Right. Yeah. An endocrine disruptor. And there's good news.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
Another study that I came across from the American Institute
of Physics talks about how toxicity screenings of these types
of products has gotten much, much, much better and easier
using something called microfluidic devices. And the summary for the
study says scientists are using nanoparticle screening on personal care
(01:00:13):
products and finding previously thought toxic chemicals may not be harmful.
Researchers discussed their work successfully using microchips to demonstrate titanium dioxide,
a chemical found in most sunscreens, not only is non-toxic,
but also offers protection against ultraviolet damage to skin cells.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
So I would like to recommend for anybody who wants
to read more in depth, read the study that we've
referenced regarding sunscreen in this, the episode where we ruin sunscreen,
go to the journal Chemical Research in Toxicology And you
will find it under the quite dry title, Benzophenone Accumulates
(01:00:53):
Over Time from the Degradation of Octocrylene in Commercial Sunscreen Products. Whew,
sexy title. Yep, yep, it's right up there with Faulkner,
I am sure historians will agree. What do you think
should be done, folks? What do you think can be
done other than, as I said before, I do want
(01:01:16):
to leave you with that image of taking the time
in front of the sunscreen aisle, and I don't want
that to be lost because it is important. At some
point in every human being's life, your health becomes the
primary concern. Now, it can be a concern that you
are proactive about. It can be a concern when something
(01:01:39):
goes wrong. But at some point, no matter who you are,
no matter what you do, you will place your health
as a number one priority. So maybe that 10 minutes
is worth it. That's my proposition there. And you know,
that doesn't just go But is there is there a
(01:02:00):
solution that companies could do for this? Is there a
way first to Parker's note? Is there a way to
guarantee the SPF on the on the label is honest?
Is there a way to properly avoid? dangerous chemicals, and
just as importantly, to figure out the facts versus the
fiction in allegations of harmful chemicals. Because remember, until 2021,
(01:02:26):
a lot of the warnings about sunscreen were misinformation. They
were misinformed, at the very least. Let us know. We
want to hear from you. You are the most important
part of this show. We try to make it easy
to find us online.
Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
That's right. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter
where we are Conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram, we are Conspiracy
Stuff Show. On YouTube, we are Conspiracy Stuff. Hey, and
if you like hanging out on YouTube and you're interested
in this topic, check out, I think it's Med... Oh, gosh,
is it Med School Insiders? Yeah, Med School Insiders. They've
got some great content about sunscreen and studies and how
(01:03:06):
to read that stuff. There's also some great stuff out
of Veritasium and a couple other places where you can
actually watch UV cameras. looking at a human while sunscreen
is being applied. And it's super fascinating to watch those
higher SPF levels, just what it's actually absorbing when it
(01:03:27):
comes to the light. Check that stuff out for sure. And,
you know, subscribe to Conspiracy Stuff if you get a chance.
If you don't want to do that stuff, hey, you
can give us a call.
Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
You can call 1-833-STDWYTK, leave a message at the sound
of Ben's voice or Uh, three minutes is the time
allotted for each message. Please try to stick within that
three minutes if you can. Uh, if you want to
give us a shout, uh, personally or, or ask a
question or something like that, or, you know, tell us a,
maybe a longer story, go ahead and do that via email. Um,
(01:03:58):
and we hopefully, uh, if you are into it and
you give us permission, we will use your audio message
on one of our weekly listener mail episodes.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
And if none of that quite greases you up, there
is one way you can always contact us, uh, Oh,
greases up isn't our best one. But Matt, I'm just
thinking of you as a kid being pulled away from
the shore. If none of that.
Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
I was wearing a shirt, okay? He was hard to grab, though.
Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
He was so hard to pull away because he's so slippery.
He just slides right out of your hand like a
bar of soap.
Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
So if none of that quite slips and slides for
you as a way to contact us, there is one...
way that we always recommend no matter where you are,
no matter which beach or surf store you prefer. You
can send us a good old-fashioned email where we are.
Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Conspiracy at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff They Don't Want You To Know
(01:05:10):
is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Fellow conspiracy realist, welcome back to the show. We're doing
some classic episodes as we're gearing up for some travel. Guys,
it's the end of summer. I know that some people
love the daylight more than yours truly, but back in 2021,
we found something that I think baffled a lot of us. Sunscreen, right?
(00:23):
Whenever you go outside, especially here in the States, your
parents always tell you, Put on sunscreen, right, before you
go to the beach.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
You know, I've become quite a sunscreen stickler. I've been
doing a lot more outdoorsy activities, and I like to
spray personally.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
But, yeah, it's important, man.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Those UV rays, they be penetrating the dermis.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, especially for the more fair-skinned of us. I'm going
to put myself in that category. I'm looking at you guys.
I can't tell if you need that much sunscreen. I
definitely need a ton of it. This episode that we're
about to present to you as a classic talked about
some pretty terrifying things that are in that sunscreen that
we need to be a little worried about.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Oh, no.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah. Just go ahead and rub yourself down. Spray yourself off, folks.
This is the episode where we ruin sunscreen.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And guys, there is new information. There are like new
ingredients that the FDA has just approved, I think this
year or last year, that counteract or they're They're counter
to some of the things we're talking about in the episode,
and they're new and they're improved. But how long until
those ingredients then become the stuff that we're about to
talk about?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Let's roll the tape. From UFOs to psychic powers and
government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can
turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want
you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
My name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are
joined as always with our super producer, Paul Mission Control Deccan.
Most importantly, you are you, you are here, and that
makes this Stuff They Don't Want You To Know. The
weather is beautiful here in Atlanta, in the south of
the U.S. People constantly talk about the weather. We had
(02:29):
a very moody atmosphere here just yesterday. There was big
sea shanty energy in the morning. We're talking rain, thunder,
felt maritime. And then by the afternoon, it was a
stereotypical spring. It was beautiful. You know, you could hear
the birds. You could see the squirrels jump around. You
would go outside. And according to experts, if you go outside,
(02:53):
you need sunscreen. And Parker wrote to us recently. Parker,
you had a suggestion specifically about sunscreen. And without spoiling
the letter here. you said the story of sunscreen goes
(03:14):
deeper in a way that you thought might interest your
fellow listeners. And before we jump into the facts here, guys,
I just wanted to ask you all, like, what's your
experience with sunscreen? You know, experts recommend that you wear
it every day, every time that you're outside. And I
(03:35):
feel like, being somewhat of a troglodyte, which means cave
person myself, I feel like I definitely do not do
that because the sun is my ancient nemesis. How about
you guys? I burn.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I'm a pale boy. I just kind of go for
whichever sunscreen has like the most aluminum in it. I
feel like that's the one that's going to protect me
the best.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Hmm.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Interesting call. OK, yeah, I you know, yeah, I grew
up being covered in the stuff and I actually began
to resent the whole. OK, it's been it's been an
hour in the sun. Come on over here. Let's get
your back again. That's my mom probably speaking.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And your dad's in the background going, grease him up.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, my dad. My dad just he doesn't burn. And
I don't understand it. He just doesn't burn.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Is he a leathery man?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
He's a leatherman. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But but I always
burned like crazy. I would get crazy burns like the
stuff that no one wants to see, even in a
horror movie. And it, you know, it, I just didn't
like the process. So later in life, I don't really
wear sunscreen, but I wonder, Ben, like you, you have
(04:51):
a lot of travels. If you just end up somewhere
where you realize, oh man, I should probably be wearing
sunscreen for this. What is your go-to? Like, what do you,
how do you make a decision about what to get?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Ah, got it. That's an interesting question. That's a, that's
a bit of a setup there. And I greatly appreciate it. Um, First,
it's like that old story of what do you do
when you find yourself in the woods? Your first step
is to ask yourself, what the hell did I do
wrong to find myself in the woods? Yes, sunscreen is, again,
(05:24):
there are so many types, but it's recommended in general,
wherever you live, whoever you are, if you are spending
time outside during the day. Here are the facts. Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Let's start right there.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It's cool.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
It didn't answer my question, but it's cool. Let's go.
Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Do you feel like I did not answer your question
as to so specifically then before you get into the
facts to answer your question? Yes. Depending, depending on the environment,
even I would keep sunscreen of some sort, but I
would typically I have to find some sort of natural
(06:07):
alternative to something store-bought, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Got you. Oh, totally. That makes a ton of sense.
I guess the only reason I wanted to talk about
it is because I don't know if this is what
you out there listening do, but I'll find myself in a,
you know, depending on which city I'm in, just a
store that sells sunscreen. And I will just grab something.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And I don't spend a ton of time thinking about
what it is. I go for a higher number just
because I am rather pale. But like I don't make
an informed decision ever.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like if you're if
you're going to a beach and you don't live by
a beach and you stop in at the. We'll just
fictionally call it the beach store. You stop in at
beach store or Panama Jacks or whatever it's going to
be called. Ron John, perhaps? Ron John. Yes. Yeah. It's
like a surf store. The surf store. Well, that's fine.
(07:00):
It's the same thing as the beach store. Hopefully, the
beach store and surf store owners who are listening to
the show right now will forgive us for conflating them unfairly,
if indeed we have. But you go in, you get
your beach towel, and you're like, I need my flip-flops
that I am inevitably going to lose or my children
will inevitably lose in the course of this pandemic. shore
(07:25):
shoreside adventure and then yes you grab you grab sunscreen
because you probably didn't bring it from home right uh
for many people and you're in a hurry because you
want to get to the beach right you want to
confront the infinity that is the horizon of the ocean
yes i uh i understand what you're saying now i
originally was thinking you meant like lost in the wilderness
(07:50):
somewhere off the grid, but you mean going, you mean
going somewhere recreationally. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I assume many of us have just ended up at
a beach at some point for some, for one reason
or another. Yeah. And the big takeaway here is that
maybe a lot of us don't know or think much
about sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
We read the label. You see SPF, And you think,
I want the highest number. Why would somebody buy a
lower number? They're the same price. They're probably a few
dollars more. But it does feel weird, right? Like you're
looking at the range of SPFs and you're thinking, well.
(08:38):
I want full protection.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Protect me from the sun's cancerous rays. you know, give
me the super powered stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Right. Right.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And just slightly alternatively, my wife is Cuban and she
doesn't like to wear full, like the full sunscreen. So
she gets the stuff that's like SPF four and they
call it like bronzing or, you know, these things that
like are supposed to help protect.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
A little, a tan, like a copper tone kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. The, um,
the it's, it's funny that, that we're talking about this
at the very beginning because, um, I don't know about
anybody else, but I was always confused by the idea
that a company would know it could make the best
thing and then sell a lesser version of that thing.
(09:24):
And it happens in every industry, right? It's like, it's
weird that, um, you know, if you know that they're like,
if you are just picking things out of the blue,
like if you were Apple and why do you sell
multiple versions of the same computer when you know that
you could just, you could just sell the best one.
And then everybody would like, I get it. I understand
(09:47):
the economics of it. It just, it always felt strange
to me. And I think that's the same kind of
disconnect people experience when they run into sunscreen, but the
difference between sunscreen and a lot of those a lot
of other consumer products yes folks spoiler this is a
(10:07):
consumer products kind of episode and there is there are
a number of conspiracies afoot the difference between sunscreen and
a lot of other products is especially in the world
of skincare and makeup, is that sunscreen works. There is
scientific basis to it. It's not some kind of like,
woo woo, we had an angel sneeze on these pomegranate
(10:32):
leaves and then we rolled it up with, like, the
farts of puppies, and then we made it a cream,
and we sprayed it, and if you walk through it
at noon, your eye wrinkles will dissipate or something like that.
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Well,
you know, people will do a lot if they feel
(10:54):
like they're combating aging. That's true.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, it's all industry, the idea of slowing down the
hands of father time. And, you know, like cosmetic surgery
is probably the most extreme example of that. But so
many products, beauty products, skincare lines, where there is a
lot of snake oil wrapped up in it. And, you know, sure,
there's testimonials and things like that. But it's true, Ben.
(11:20):
I think it's a really good point that Sunscreen and
the whole idea of SPF and the gradations of that
is absolutely a scientifically proven thing that benefits you and
keeps those harmful rays from penetrating that sweet, sweet dermis.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So let's talk about it. Here are the facts. What
exactly is sunscreen? Well, it turns out sunscreen is kind
of like a cross, a very tiny cross we wave
at a very big vampire, and it protects you kind of,
because if you think about the normal day, the beautiful
(12:00):
spring that's occurring in Atlanta, you realize it's happening because
of some very scary stuff. We are... Right next to,
astronomically speaking, an enormous dying star. And it is screaming
as it dies in terms of energy. It is responsible
for the continued existence of life on Earth. It is amazing.
(12:24):
It is crucial. It is dangerous. And since ancient times,
human beings have been aware of this. And they've been like, hey,
this thing, right? creates the food that we eat, and
it also feels like it would kill us if it
was close enough. As a matter of fact, even if
(12:44):
we stand around it, it starts to mess with the
way we look and the way we feel. We have
to figure something out.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, and humans have been coming up with ways to
prevent the sun from harming them for millennia. And really,
you know, one of the best ones is to go
the troglodyte route. Stay inside as much as you can,
you know, and hunt when you have to and at
(13:11):
certain times. But other things have been really treatments, salves
that have been created, things to actually put on the
skin to stop the burning a lot of times, and
then other times to actually prevent the burning from happening
in the first place.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
And.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
It's all to stop this tiny little sliver of the
light spectrum, essentially, called ultraviolet.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, you definitely want to block that stuff because it
can give you all varieties of skin cancer. In addition
to just, you know, causing general wear and tear on
your skin overall, just, you know, from the effects.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Of the sun.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
But yeah, it's something that has been on the minds
of humans since ancient times when folks, you know, already
were aware of these effects, these damaging effects that the
sun could have on the human body. In early civilizations,
folks developed some kind of more holistic remedies, I guess,
for treating the sun. They didn't really have science, but
(14:12):
they had trial and error. And in ancient Greece, for example,
they used olive oil. In Egypt, they would use extracts
of jasmine and rice and other plants and just, you know,
like you said, Matt, rub it on their body and
kind of like a poultice or a salve. And for
thousands of years, people have also used the element zinc,
(14:36):
zinc oxide in a paste form. And it's actually still
a very important ingredient in modern sunscreen.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It's true. You find something that works, you stick with
what works, right? This is inarguably, before we get into
the messed up parts of this idea, this is inarguably
a good idea. We're going to get into some messed
up stuff today. So it's important to note at the
(15:06):
offset here that sunscreen is in general a good idea.
Protecting yourself from the sun, obviously I'm very biased because
I see it as an antagonist, but still everyone can
agree protecting yourself and your loved ones from the sun.
I know I sound very pro-vampire right now. It's still
(15:26):
important because sunscreen doesn't just protect you from that very small,
dangerous sliver of the spectrum that you're describing, Matt, it
can also, while doing that, it lowers your risk of
some very nasty forms of skin cancer. It can prevent
(15:48):
premature aging of the skin. And if you are sensitive
about your skin and then this can assist in maintaining
what would be called an even skin tone, meaning it will,
if you are freckle prone like Matt and myself, then
(16:08):
sunscreen will reduce your freckle ratio, right? Yeah, you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I got quite a lot of freckles on my arms,
not so much on my face, but tons of arm freckles.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
It's weird. You know, freckles, it's a weird thing. I
don't understand. It's like I can tan incredibly intensely in
these tiny circles.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah freckles it's a weird thing i agree i agree
freckles are strange but but so like if you hate
freckles sunscreen is great for you right that's that's what
an even skin tone probably let's that's a good way
to explain even skin tone.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So ancient times olive oil like noel said jasmine rice
extracts all the hits uh The story of modern sunscreen,
or what we call modern sunscreen, really starts in the 1930s,
kicks into high gear in 1944. There's a guy from Florida.
He's an airman, and he's a pharmacist. His name is
(17:08):
Benjamin Green, and he does something necessary but kind of gross.
He takes something called Red Vet Pets, which is a
short cutesy name for red veterinary petrolatum. So think of
like Vaseline. He takes this kind of Vaseline that comes
(17:31):
from the world of veterinary medicine and he slathers it
on himself and he's like talking to his fellow soldiers
and he's slathering on them during World War II and
he's like, the sun's going to kill us. We need
to protect ourselves. So they're slimy soldiers now.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
That's pretty gross, dude.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Oh, man.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Can I take a tiny diversion real quick just to
bring up a lovely piece of pop culture surrounding sunscreen?
I don't know if you guys remember the song, the
Baz Luhrmann song, Everybody's Free to Wear Sunscreen, which was
actually featured in the opening sequence of season one. two
or three of The Sopranos, but it's taken from a
(18:16):
column by Mary Schmick from the Chicago Tribune on June
1st of 1997, titled Advice Like Youth, Probably Just Wasting.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
On the Young. And it gives all these pieces of advice.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's meant to be like a commencement speech for a
graduating class that does not exist.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
She didn't actually give this.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
But it repeats the recommendation of wear sunscreen with other
little pithy pieces of advice. And there was actually like
an urban legend uh, that Kurt Vonnegut had delivered. This
is a commencement speech at MIT, uh, in 1987, but
that was totally not true. It's almost like a Mandela
effect kind of situation. Uh, Kurt Vonnegut even said when
he was pressed to like reprint this amazing speech that
(18:56):
he made, um, that he, uh, would proudly have taken
credit for the words if they were his, but, uh,
check out that song. If you get a chance, it's
a lot, a lot of fun and it's very inspiring.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah. The, um, the thing that's described in that song
is not red vet pet, right?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Um, Right.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So so again, slimy soldiers, this is gross, gross stuff.
There's not a ton of science behind it other than
it being able to stick to the skin and function,
stick to human skin and function as a physical barrier
between the skin and the sun. I am holding a
(19:34):
very anti-sun position, but I have never deviated from this position.
You are consistently anti-sun. Well, please, please, let's just all
be aware of my bias, which is survival-based.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Why Red Vet Pet? Is it like petroleum? Or is
it like a slightly different substance? That's really interesting. Petrolatum.
I bet it's a petroleum-based substance.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, it's Vaseline, basically.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
The non-name-brand... or the non proprietary eponym is, is, would be, uh,
slimy and shiny soldiers. Yes. Slimy and shiny. And after
the war, after world war two, Benjamin green classes up
his act. He adds coconut oil to this. He adds
(20:27):
cocoa butter. It's getting fancy. Uh, this eventually will become
what is known as Coppertone suntan cream, which, um, you know, Matt,
earlier you were describing the idea of getting a little
bit of protection from the sun, but also helping yourself
acquire a tan, right? A general sheen about oneself. That's
(20:51):
what Coppertone is doing. And then at this time, there's
still no SPF. Like the one thing people care about
when they read a label on sunscreen today is SPF.
And that's doesn't exist until about the roundabouts in the 1970s. Yep.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
And as we said, it's just a way to measure
and to show consumers exactly how much of those UV
rays are being blocked or what percentage. That's not a percentage, though.
That's not what the rating says. It becomes a tough
thing to even talk about. It is a percentage of
UV blocking power, but it's represented in a weird scale
(21:37):
that doesn't really make that much sense.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
It's not super intuitive.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It measures the amount that gets through rather than the
amount that's blocked, right?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, so like SPF 15, it's like a measure over time.
So what it means is that 1 15th of harmful
radiation from that evil dying star will reach your skin. Uh,
in that, so you're like, okay, I've protected myself against
(22:06):
14 of 15. Yes. Death rays from this space monster.
And that works as long as I have applied this at, um,
an even rate, which never happens, uh, of two milligrams
(22:27):
per centimeter of human skin. And then the person wearing
it has to change that every two hours, right? They
have to re-up. Just like Matt's parents called him over
and greased him up again.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
That's always what it felt like. Let's grease you up
for a while.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
They wanted you to have a good time at the beach. Today,
this is a massive industry. As research continued, sunscreen evolved.
So if you walk into your beach store or your
surf store, you will see multiple types of sunscreen, multiple brands,
water resistant stuff or stuff that purports to have sunscreen.
(23:10):
an amazingly high SPF. You'll also see broader spectrums of protection, right?
Like UVA, UVB protection, protecting you from both long and
short range ultraviolet rays. So far, so good, right? Well, no. Unfortunately,
when it comes to sunscreen, there is some stuff they
(23:33):
don't want you to know. We'll pause for a word
from our sponsors. Get greased up over here. We'll be back.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I definitely missed a part of my back.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Like, you know, right on the shoulders. Like sometimes you
ever get a sunburn where you can see your fingers. Yeah.
Where you kind of messed up.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
The last time I tried to apply sunscreen, I realized
I hadn't done it in a long time. And I
did a really bad job. And I just had like,
you know, the white, the really creamy white kind that
you really have to rub in to make it disappear.
I got it all over my beard and it just
wasn't rubbed in at all. And I looked like a
freaking idiot. So, you know, applying sunscreen takes practice.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Gotta know what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Here's where it gets crazy. There are issues here. There
are two big issues. And Parker wrote to us about
one that maybe unfamiliar to a lot of our listeners
outside of the world of makeup or skincare, and that's
corruption in the sunscreen industry. Parker wrote to us specifically
(24:43):
about something called Purito Centella Green Level Unscented Sun, which, spoilers,
fellow conspiracy realists, None of us knew about. None of
us had that light bulb moment where we said, oh, oh, no, burrito.
What happened to burrito?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, I was. I really didn't know if it was
pure burrito or burrito because I was hungry and I
thought about. Burritos is a burrito like a burrito for cats.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
OK, I'm done.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
No, but this is such a ridiculous name. It almost
feels like it needs a red vet pet type such
type shortening. But there really is nothing you can do
with burritos and tell a green level unscented sun.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So really, it's got to like power through it. But
apparently this was like really popular, right? It was like
known as.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
The internet's favorite sunscreen. But it kind of got lampooned
a bit on social media when a study revealed that
they were not being particularly honest about the level of
protection that it offered.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So imagine you're at your beach store, you're at your
surf store, or you're just a person who takes care
of their skin. Like, obviously, none of us do on
this show. Look at us. Yeah, right? So you go
to this. No, we look okay, I think. Yeah, thanks, bud.
I think we look okay. So anyway, you're a hypothetical person,
(26:07):
no specific person. You care about your skin because you
want to be alive and not have skin cancer, and
you want to look relatively good. So you grab this stuff,
this green-level unscented sunscreen, Because it has SPF 50. Well,
a study came out that revealed this was not the
(26:30):
actual case. If you look at the ingredients, if you
take that stuff to a lab and you test for SPF,
you'll find that it has an SPF of 19, less
than half of the 50 it claims. Yikes. Yeah, and
we know that the experiments or the study that revealed
this is legit. It comes from something called INCI Decoder.
(26:57):
Let's put aside the question of whether this was like
purposely misleading or whether this was honestly a mistake or
a negligence issue. The thing is, this opens a door
to a much wider problem. It's not like one brand
of this sunscreen, is it?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This goes across
the spectrum here. There was a Consumer Reports report that
came out not that long ago, and it found that...
36 out of 53 sunscreens that it tested did not
(27:37):
have the SPF level represented. So it was lower than
what was represented on the bottle of spray or the
lotion or the bar that you're going to put on yourself,
whatever it was, it was a lower SPF than it
claimed to be.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
How is the FDA not involved in this? Like you'd
think there'd be like sample testing to ensure that that
there is truth in advertising for these types of products
in the same way that, you know, drugs are regulated.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Well, here's the thing. There are a ton of reasons
why this could happen, right? It could be a single batch, right,
that maybe the SPF wasn't quite right, and maybe that's
just it. You tested a bad batch. You know, maybe
there are standards that are falling. There are a lot
of reasons.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, which are not necessarily– There are also loopholes around
kind of the government regulation or standards, right? Like how
do you test stuff? When do you test stuff? Which
is probably one of the biggest deals here. For instance,
if we think of the U.S. and other manufacturers, right,
(28:45):
from different countries here, then you can get around loopholes
by just taking off SPF. It's like, oh, hey, no, no,
we're not doing a sunscreen thing. We have some of
the ingredients, but we're not claiming it. Now we're just,
you know, now we're just good time sun lotions. No promises, right?
(29:07):
That's the motto. No promises.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
No promises. But again, as we said before, and I
think this is true, one of the biggest purchasing factors
for a consumer is that giant SPF label and number, right?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
So I appreciate the point you were making, Matt, which
is that this doesn't necessarily mean manufacturers are bad actors.
There could be bad storage, like you said, variations between batches.
different testing standards that's huge. Also, yes, counterfeit. yes fabrication
(29:43):
of testing results which is a little bit easier to
do than you might think.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I want to just we're gonna talk about this later
in the episode but we just kind of we've been
mentioned the storage of the substance and how that can
have be a factor and We have found in the
research that that is a major factor for some sunscreens
and the chemicals that are inside of them.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Oh, buddy, yeah. Expiration dates are not just for food
in your grocery store. So we can't, if we're being
absolutely fair, we can't say all of these companies are
lying to you. They're pawns of big sun and they
want you to burn. What we can say instead is
that the burden... the burden of informed consent is placed
(30:32):
on the consumer here. Parker sent this great article by
a writer named Rio Vera Newton, writing for The Strategist
in New York Magazine, and this author notes the impact
actual way to figure out what you're buying what you're
paying for and it it's some work you'd have to
(30:55):
be like if you're standing in front of sunscreen in
the grocery aisle or wherever at your beach store your
surf store that you would have to be on your
phone for a few minutes because you have to look
up a product's name or what's called an ndc number
which is a 10 digit number i know how how
how juicy is this right it's kind of dry it's
a 10 digit code that identifies drugs, labeler, product, and
(31:20):
trade package size on something called ndclist.com. And why do
you have to look up this crazy 10-digit number, this
like VIN, this V-I-N of a bottle of sunscreen? Because
that number verifies the FDA registration, the question you asked earlier, Noel,
(31:42):
and it shows that it's gone through testing in the U.S.,
That's not the whole step. The next step Rio says
is you have to go to consumer reports, which has
a lot of research on sunscreen and you have to
compare these. So at this point you are like at
least 12 minutes deep. in the sunscreen system on your
(32:05):
phone in front of the people are going to the
beach without you. You know what I mean? Yep.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Maybe just like use a parasol instead, you know, or
a big floppy hat.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
That probably helps.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
But sunscreen is definitely a part of the skincare industry, right?
Even certain skin creams or moisturizers, for example, or like
various products, they'll have some form of sunscreen in them
or will offer some sort of SPF protection, even if
it's not just purely sun lotion. And there are absolutely
(32:42):
important and positive qualities to this product. It can, in fact,
stop those those ultraviolet rays from penetrating your skin and
causing cancer. That is unless it actually can cause cancer,
depending on what goes into the stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
And we'll pause on that cliffhanger. We have to pause there.
We'll be back after a word from our sponsor. And
we are back. We are still standing with you. In
our hypothetical beach surf shop, which we'll call it.
(33:27):
What should we call it? Ron Jon. Pauly Shores? I'm sorry, guys.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I keep harping on Ron Jon. I think people that
aren't from this part of the country don't even know
what that is. But I think it's a Myrtle Beach thing.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Or it's like, yeah. There's a shark. And I just
remember the t-shirts when I was a kid. It's a
nostalgia thing for me. Plus, it's fun to say Ron Jon.
But I love Pauly Shores. That's way better.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Well, they can all exist. You know, Myrtle Beach has
a booming economy. Right? So, like, there are a lot
of stores.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, it turns out 40% of their gross domestic product
comes from airbrushed T-shirts.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Right? And that's just the gross. So we're at Pauly Shores. Paul,
I'm sorry. You drew the short surf straw on this one.
We're standing with you in this aisle. We're already spending
a lot of time trying to figure out What's happening
(34:21):
with this sunscreen? Is that SPF real, right? Because we
know it turns out for one reason or another, it
is often not what it purports to be. There's a
second problem. There have been multiple claims over the years.
You're thinking about this, right? Let's just get into this scenario.
You're thinking about this, you're looking at the sunscreen, and
(34:44):
you're on your phone, and you found this stuff, and
consumer reports, and blah, blah, blah, and you think, okay,
I've I found one that I think is going to work.
And then some dude breezes past you in flip flops
and cargo shorts. And he says, you know, he's a
bit of a Leatherman. And he says, don't fall for it, kid.
(35:06):
That stuff gives you cancer. There have been so many
claims in the past. that sunscreen itself, particularly the chemicals
in it, the active ingredients, can in fact harm your body,
harm your various systems, and in some cases become carcinogenic,
(35:34):
create cancerous conditions. Maybe not skin cancer, so maybe in
avoiding skin cancer, you are suffering from another type of
cancer because of the active ingredients in these substances is
that true let's see let's go to the experts right
(35:56):
let's go to the experts so that cargo shorts guy
breezes past drop some drop some conspiracy knowledge on you
on his way to get um What are those things
that go on your upper arm?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Floaties?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, on his way to get floaties. All right.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
All right. All right. Choosing that one. Well, guess what?
That one that one causes cancer, buddy. Don't don't use
that one. I got to get these floaties over here.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
That's pretty good, Matt.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Sorry. I've been watching his new YouTube channel recently.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Matthew McConaughey's YouTube channel. You know, he I saw this amazing,
insightful interview with him. I don't know. He's a smart dude.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Dude's going to be running Texas before you know it.
It's coming.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I have no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Probably one of my most shining moments in podcasting was
I got to be on a call with Matthew McConaughey.
It wasn't video, but that voice, man, unmistakable. He was
pitching a podcast. Obviously, he went the YouTube route. Hey,
there's still time and room.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
To a podcast okay sorry um no let's go you
go to the experts right you don't that guy you
can't trust that guy not not mcconaughey but the dude
that was there in the store who knows played.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
By mcconaughey clearly yeah yeah we have established that in
this scenario.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
But uh you know you can't take somebody's just quick
offhand comment as fact. So you got to look to
the experts. What are they saying? Well, here's the deal.
You're looking at studies from experts or at least scientists
or people who are researchers who are spending a lot
of time and effort to get results, maybe, or maybe
(37:36):
they're working for a company or maybe they're working against
a company. Because what you end up looking at when
you're when you're researching this stuff is that you've got
some folks saying that these studies are legitimate. And then others,
a lot of experts saying these, a lot of the
studies that say some of these things are essentially misinformation
(37:58):
or disinformation. Like it's not right. And it's the results
that are being regurgitated, you know, just in spoken about
are actually mischaracterized.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah. So, Let's take, for example, Dr. Jennifer Lin, who
is an assistant professor of dermatology at Harvard Medical School,
co-director of Melanoma Risk and Prevention Clinic. She has an
insightful response about some of the kind of alarmist or
fear-mongering reports here, specifically about oxybenzone. And she says there
(38:33):
has been no conclusive evidence that oxybenzone is harmful to humans.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Asterisk.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
And she notes something that happens in a lot of
studies and a lot of pop science. You'll hear a
study that says like, insert substance X or substance so-and-so
has been found to cause cancer in mammals or, you know,
to somehow like have a deleterious effect on you. But
(39:02):
they don't talk about how that study was conducted or
what actually happened. So Dr. Lin points out that organizations
that have raised concerns about oxybenzone cite studies that were
done on rats, which are not human yet, and that
rats were physically fed oxybenzone. They weren't shaving the rats
(39:26):
and then putting sunscreen on them. They were forcing them
to eat this stuff. And according to Dr. Lin, it would, quote,
take an individual human being, I imagine, 277 years of
sunscreen use to achieve the same dose that produced the
harmful effects in these rats. And that's based on a
study from the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
(39:49):
in 2017. But think carefully, right?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
2017.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
It's a number of years ago.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah, four almost.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
So what changes? This is the second big issue. There's
a recent study that came out, 2021. It turns out
that sunscreen, the stuff you use to prevent skin cancer
from exposure to sunlight, might actually, yes, have a chance
of giving you cancer. That's the claim people are making.
(40:24):
This study, which was by several French and U.S. scientists
looked at skincare brands overall, L'Oreal, Neutrogena, Bioderma, like the
big ones. Picture the big brands of skincare. It looked
at all of these, and it looked especially at something
(40:44):
called octocrylene.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Octocrylene. Sounds interesting. It's a chemical, right? And this is
kind of weird. It's a bit difficult to navigate because
octocrylene isn't necessarily the issue, the bad thing, that octocrylene itself.
What happens is over time, it degrades into something called benzophenone.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah. And benzophenone is the, um, think of it like
the final form, right? Think of it, think of it like, um,
If octocrylene is the mogwai, benzophenone is the gremlin. Wow,
that's actually pretty, not a bad comparison.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
You just feed it time. Don't feed it time.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yes, don't feed it time.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
This is weird.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
So octocrylene is already controversial. in a number of places
due to concerns about its effect not on humans, but
on the overall environment. It's been banned in a couple
of places, including Hawaii and the U.S. Virgin Islands. This
study did something pretty neat. They said, we need to
(41:56):
figure out what happens to sunscreen when it's just left
on a shelf. Because think about it, the sunscreen you
probably buy is not uh refrigerated or something like that
you know what i mean it's not like in a
cool dry cellar or something like it's just it's on
the shelf next to the flip-flops next to the towels
next to the floaties etc.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
And it's been sitting in poly shores for a while
and it's been in poly shores for a while uh
might even have some visible dust on the top of
the cap This study used an artificial aging process to
replicate that passage of time to show what like to
show what happens to these products when they've sat on
(42:40):
a shelf at Pauly Shores for around a year, ballpark
a year.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
The thing is that the concentration of this chemical, this
harmful chemical is increases the longer it sits on that shelf.
So we're reading SPF, but what you should be reading
is the expiration date. According to FDA regulations, sunscreen has
(43:06):
a shelf life of three years. Oh, wow. Yeah, but
this study shows if it's on that shelf for a year,
depending if this one thing, this octocrylene is in it,
then it is slowly kind of Jekyll and hiding into
the thing that is very easily absorbed by your skin
that you very much do not want in your body.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
And it gets worse over time. I believe the concentration
can actually increase the longer that you leave it on
the shelf. So it's very, very important to keep a
close eye on those expiration dates.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
And this stuff, by the way, Benzophenone is banned for
use as an ingredient in food or an ingredient in cosmetics.
So it's not there. It's not legally allowed to be
in that bottle of whatever you buy. And it's more
than sunscreen, by the way. There was a study in
(44:05):
the 1990s that found just how successfully this stuff is
absorbed by the skin And it makes a pretty solid
argument to, before regulation, you know, to prohibit this chemical
from being included in stuff like sunscreen or shampoo or perfume.
(44:26):
But the problem goes even further. Octocrylene has not met
those FDA regulations for safety or effectiveness. Still, I think
it still hasn't. Like as of February 2019, as of
two years ago, this stuff was still not meeting the
(44:46):
guidelines from the FDA, which means that if you wore
sunscreen anytime before 2019, depending on what you bought, the
odds aren't looking great. Unless you like rolled in mud,
hippo or elephant style to protect yourself from the sun,
(45:06):
you probably got some of this stuff in you. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
And let's talk really quickly a little more about the
Hawaii banning, because that just occurred. Hawaii just passed legislation
that banned two chemicals in sunscreens. I'll actually pull up
the Senate bill here. Center for Biological Diversity sent this
out on March 9th of this year, 2021, and they
(45:32):
are banning two petrochemicals within sunscreens. avobenzone and octocrylene and
the two of the biggest things that came out of
this or one of the biggest reasons that they're banning
it is because they've found that these chemicals are actually
bleaching the coral reefs around Hawaii these chemicals are coming
(45:57):
off of people's skin when the sunscreen is applied to
them and hurting the environment to that like having a
huge effect on the environment that's That's a big deal,
and they're chemicals that you're putting on your body directly
that's being absorbed, as Ben said.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
It's not a super sunny proposition. I will never forgive
myself for that one. You're absolutely right, Matt. It's important
to note that this process, which has been proven by
this study, or there's a strong argument that it occurs
fairly commonly, This process was welcomed by people who believed
(46:38):
previous myths or mischaracterizations about ugly chemicals in skincare products.
So it kind of fed the fire, right? It turned
out there was a grain of truth to some of
the allegations or some of the suspicions and rumors that
According to Dr. Sharon Lohan, this stuff, benzophenone, is the
(47:03):
worst offender in causing contact dermatitis. It can also induce anaphylaxis,
and it is classified as carcinogenic by the International Agency
for Research on Cancer, which is part of the World
Health Organization. So people are aware of this. People are
aware of this, including the industry. In 2019, almost 3,000
(47:29):
different like products, which is such a vague term, but
3,000 like, you know, kinds of shampoo, kinds of sunscreen,
kinds of, I'm guessing here, what's another skin thing? Moisturizer?
Is that? Okay.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Cetaphil is a real popular one. It's really apparently quite
important to moisturize every day. I don't do it every day,
but I try to get to it when I remember. Um,
but yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
So there's another thing that happened, which was the, um,
you know, these stories pop up with like, uh, you've
heard about it before, uh, rat feces in cereal. Right.
And I don't know if you guys remember that when
there was a long time story where people would say, actually,
the FDA allows a certain amount of rat feces in cereal. Uh,
(48:17):
there's only so much you can do. You can't, you
can't ever have 0% rat poop cereal. Right.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
It's like the idea of a grade E meat at
Taco Bell containing some percentage of rat meat or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Exactly. The idea being that it's legal, but it's a
loophole that a lot of people don't know about. Like
someone in the industry is saying, okay, all right, Uncle Sam. Clearly,
if there was anyone able to make cereal with 0%
rat feces, they would put that on the front of
the box, right? It'd be like right next to the
(48:50):
Raisin Bran. There's the no rat poop.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
What am I going to do? Get all the rats
out of here?
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Oh, come on.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
I'm making cereal here.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
We're a cereal company, not an exterminator service, sir. I'm
just thinking, like, is that, what kind of integration, what
kind of integration is that where you say, you know,
we started off making cereal. add all this rat poop
in it. And we were like, is this a feature?
(49:23):
Is this a bug? A long story short, we killed
the rats, sold the meat to Taco Bell. We kept
the poop. We got two scoops of it. Raisin bread.
Apparently by Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I come to you once more to tell you that
there are definitely three scoops of raisins in every box.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Of Raisin Bran.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
So three scoops, they went up, huh?
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Is it only two? Well, that third scoop is rat poop.
So this, we are hopefully joking, but it is true
that something similar has happened with the sunscreen industry. the
French Federation of Beauty Enterprises, an industry organization, a trade organization,
(50:10):
responded to this study and they basically said, yeah, we know.
We know that this octocrylene is in here. We know
that it turns into this dangerous chemical. But look at
the study. They said these are always below the toxicity
thresholds that are safe for human health, which is a
(50:33):
lot like saying, you know, you can eat a couple
spiders in your oatmeal. You can have a little bit
of rat poop. You can have a little bit of
rat poop as a treat. Well, even as a treat.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Indeed.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Even like, you know, in regulation of fisheries, you know,
and wildlife and certain allowable amounts of pollution and water,
like there are mercury plants warnings you know for certain
bodies of water because it absorbs into the fish but
there also is an allowable level of mercury which seems
(51:06):
like it would be zero but it's not zero but
also we are talking like you know parts per million
or billion in some cases so you know there is
truth to this even as squeamish as it sounds to
say toxicity thresholds or the idea of things that are
acceptable for human health it certainly makes you cringe but
I mean it's not untrue right Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
I mean, you're talking about something happening at scale. You
know what I mean? How can any organization keep its
eye on every falling sparrow of a contaminant? It's quite difficult.
But in this case, toxicity levels or thresholds aside, like
(51:49):
the reason that this trade organization responded by pointing out
these thresholds and saying, yeah, this stuff is dangerous, but
it's not dangerous in the amounts that are found by
the study. It's because it is virtually impossible to regulate
(52:11):
a bunch of these things effectively. But in this case,
there's like clearly one that clearly transforms into this other thing.
And no one's saying change the recipe. What they're saying
is it's okay because there's not enough of it there,
(52:31):
which is like saying, hey, at this point, the rat
poop is part of the cereal. You know what I mean?
It's part of the ingredients here. We're going to take
it out? Yeah. That would destroy Raisin Bran. We're going
to get a letter from Raisin Bran.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Well, it's still my favorite cereal. So no matter how
much poop is in there. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
What are you also like, you eat grape nuts too,
old man? I don't like grape nuts. Oh God. Uh,
sorry grape nuts i just don't and i'm not into
it but raisin bran specifically i think it's raisin crunchy
raisin bran or whatever it is does it have.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
The clusters you like the one with the nut clusters.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Dude all okay i just don't like raisins yeah i
find i'm not a raisin zombie grapes these raisins are
zombie grapes they're useless fruit they're the lich kings of grapes.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Now, I like a crazen.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I do like a crazen, which is essentially the same process, Ben.
But for some reason, a raisin just doesn't do it
for me. Don't like our oatmeal raisin cookie? Like an
oatmeal cookie. Put the raisins in there. Entirely different cookie.
Different experience.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
Yeah. Yeah, oatmeal raisin cookies.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Sorry, Matt.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Sorry we're raisin shaming you, Matt.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
I feel like we're ganging up on you. No, it's
more raisins for you, man.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
Thank you, guys. You can have that third scoop. Oatmeal
raisin really is my favorite cookie.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
That's wild.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
Are you serious?
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I feel like I'm not a big cookie person, but
any time I see a cookie that I assume is
chocolate chip and it turns out it's like oatmeal raisin,
I feel swindled.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
I feel like the, the, the motto for it's like
oatmeal raisin. This is settling. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (54:20):
Like it's a cookie. Look, my grandfather used to make
me cinnamon raisin toast all the time when I would
go visit him. And I have such a special place
in my heart for that. I then developed a psychological
connection to raisins and cinnamon and That's where my oatmeal
raisin thing and even my raisin brand, it all just goes.
It's all caught up in there.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Well, Matt, it's like, look, yeah, there's no shaming here.
I just if now that I know this, I am
going to be like much more cognizant of. where raisins
and oatmeal raisin cookies should go like check your desk
later because anytime i get one of these it's going
(55:02):
straight to you man that's the best i can do
like i also the the sense i we're going somewhere
with this folks the the sense of taste and preference
for what you eat is inherently tied into memory it's
tied into smell it's tied into texture many of like Smell, actually,
(55:26):
much more so than taste. That brings your memories. That's
why we have such visceral reactions to concepts of food.
That's also why this entire time you were hearing this episode,
some part of you was smelling sunscreen. Yep. Which is weird.
That's like Morgan Freeman saying, you read this whole thing
(55:48):
in my voice.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Well, so, Ben, when you say smelling sunscreen, I mean,
surely there are scents and perfumes that are added to
some sunscreens. But there is that quintessential sunscreen smell. Is
that the chemicals that we're smelling that really make it
have that distinct kind of like nostalgic quality? And then
you've got ones that smell like coconut, but they still
(56:12):
have that certain little twinge of a chemical smell.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
It's that cocoa butter and coconut oil, man. You're right.
That's what it is. It's the original.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
The red vet pet set. Get that.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
All the other words.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Yeah, that's it. It's true. There there is this nostalgic factor.
There is a sense memory. And part of that part
of the reason that feeling is ubiquitous is is because
sunscreen does work, and it's because people do need to
(56:49):
use it or use something like it. You know what
I mean? Sunscreen, the concept of sunscreen, is what I
would call a non-human invention, by which I mean before
human beings became what are called human beings today, there
were other animals before. who figured this out, right? They said,
we need to protect ourselves from the sun. We'll roll
(57:11):
in the mud. We'll go under the water, et cetera,
et cetera. This is an ancient thing. And it's a
thing that many creatures on earth need. But there is
also an industry that is possibly creating other problems by
fixing the one it's focused on. And so, as we said,
the burden falls on the consumer. The best thing you
(57:34):
can do is read the label carefully. I know it's
cool to meet Matthew McConaughey when he glides by in
cargo shorts and floaties and then maybe clowns you. And
I know it's awkward to be on your phone for
10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes in front of the sunscreen aisle,
but maybe it's worth the time. It is indeed well said.
Speaker 2 (57:56):
I did want to point out one thing just because
I referenced it jokingly at the top of the show
saying I might sunscreen of choice would be the one
that has the most aluminum in it.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
That is a thing.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
There was a study at Keele University in Stratfordshire back
in 2007 where they took six samples of six different
brands of sunscreen and found pretty alarming levels of aluminum
in them. The World Health Organization recommends applying sunscreen 35
(58:26):
milliliters of sunscreen to get, you know, the actual benefit
of it and then also reapplying it. And according to
the study for these particular brands, it would essentially amount
to putting 200 milligrams of aluminum on your skin.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
And aluminum salts are permeable. You know, they can be
absorbed by the skin.
Speaker 2 (58:49):
And potentially, you know, it's not like a sure thing
cancer causer, but it's certainly not good for you.
Speaker 1 (58:55):
This was back in 2007, though.
Speaker 2 (58:56):
So surely there's been some movement is I know there
was also like, I think certain antiperspirants definitely have some
chemicals that people are freaked out by because, you know,
there's certain.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
People that want to use the ones that like really
don't work because they don't.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Have the the bad stuff in them um but they're
still like the ones that are like white and you
know completely dry out your armpit sorry for that image
there but just wanted to mention that because the aluminum.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
Thing i said at the top of the show that
that was not just something i made up and then
yeah as you said but it is it's on it's
on us To figure it out. Unless you live in
a state like Hawaii that straight up banned it. Because,
you know, they pointed to older and newer studies and
even studies that have yet to be published on some
of these chemicals that we discussed today and what could
(59:44):
be happening. They even mentioned disrupting human hormones.
Speaker 1 (59:49):
Right. Yeah. An endocrine disruptor. And there's good news.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
Another study that I came across from the American Institute
of Physics talks about how toxicity screenings of these types
of products has gotten much, much, much better and easier
using something called microfluidic devices. And the summary for the
study says scientists are using nanoparticle screening on personal care
(01:00:13):
products and finding previously thought toxic chemicals may not be harmful.
Researchers discussed their work successfully using microchips to demonstrate titanium dioxide,
a chemical found in most sunscreens, not only is non-toxic,
but also offers protection against ultraviolet damage to skin cells.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
So I would like to recommend for anybody who wants
to read more in depth, read the study that we've
referenced regarding sunscreen in this, the episode where we ruin sunscreen,
go to the journal Chemical Research in Toxicology And you
will find it under the quite dry title, Benzophenone Accumulates
(01:00:53):
Over Time from the Degradation of Octocrylene in Commercial Sunscreen Products. Whew,
sexy title. Yep, yep, it's right up there with Faulkner,
I am sure historians will agree. What do you think
should be done, folks? What do you think can be
done other than, as I said before, I do want
(01:01:16):
to leave you with that image of taking the time
in front of the sunscreen aisle, and I don't want
that to be lost because it is important. At some
point in every human being's life, your health becomes the
primary concern. Now, it can be a concern that you
are proactive about. It can be a concern when something
(01:01:39):
goes wrong. But at some point, no matter who you are,
no matter what you do, you will place your health
as a number one priority. So maybe that 10 minutes
is worth it. That's my proposition there. And you know,
that doesn't just go But is there is there a
(01:02:00):
solution that companies could do for this? Is there a
way first to Parker's note? Is there a way to
guarantee the SPF on the on the label is honest?
Is there a way to properly avoid? dangerous chemicals, and
just as importantly, to figure out the facts versus the
fiction in allegations of harmful chemicals. Because remember, until 2021,
(01:02:26):
a lot of the warnings about sunscreen were misinformation. They
were misinformed, at the very least. Let us know. We
want to hear from you. You are the most important
part of this show. We try to make it easy
to find us online.
Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
That's right. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter
where we are Conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram, we are Conspiracy
Stuff Show. On YouTube, we are Conspiracy Stuff. Hey, and
if you like hanging out on YouTube and you're interested
in this topic, check out, I think it's Med... Oh, gosh,
is it Med School Insiders? Yeah, Med School Insiders. They've
got some great content about sunscreen and studies and how
(01:03:06):
to read that stuff. There's also some great stuff out
of Veritasium and a couple other places where you can
actually watch UV cameras. looking at a human while sunscreen
is being applied. And it's super fascinating to watch those
higher SPF levels, just what it's actually absorbing when it
(01:03:27):
comes to the light. Check that stuff out for sure. And,
you know, subscribe to Conspiracy Stuff if you get a chance.
If you don't want to do that stuff, hey, you
can give us a call.
Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
You can call 1-833-STDWYTK, leave a message at the sound
of Ben's voice or Uh, three minutes is the time
allotted for each message. Please try to stick within that
three minutes if you can. Uh, if you want to
give us a shout, uh, personally or, or ask a
question or something like that, or, you know, tell us a,
maybe a longer story, go ahead and do that via email. Um,
(01:03:58):
and we hopefully, uh, if you are into it and
you give us permission, we will use your audio message
on one of our weekly listener mail episodes.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
And if none of that quite greases you up, there
is one way you can always contact us, uh, Oh,
greases up isn't our best one. But Matt, I'm just
thinking of you as a kid being pulled away from
the shore. If none of that.
Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
I was wearing a shirt, okay? He was hard to grab, though.
Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
He was so hard to pull away because he's so slippery.
He just slides right out of your hand like a
bar of soap.
Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
So if none of that quite slips and slides for
you as a way to contact us, there is one...
way that we always recommend no matter where you are,
no matter which beach or surf store you prefer. You
can send us a good old-fashioned email where we are.
Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Conspiracy at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff They Don't Want You To Know
(01:05:10):
is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
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