May 15, 2026 • 60 mins
Like so many wealthy people, disgraced financier and child trafficker Jeffrey Epstein owned multiple properties across the Western world (spoiler, the day before his final arrest, Epstein tried to buy an obscure palace in Morocco). In tonight's episode, Ben, Matt and Noel explore an unclean place often ignored in the saga. For some reason, one of the world's most successful child abusers purchased a sprawling ranch in the middle of nowhere: a place called Zorro Ranch, in the high desert of central New Mexico. Tune into help the guys figure out the ongoing investigation.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nol.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal fagd. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. Please be advised, fellow
conspiracy realist, this episode or this series may not be
appropriate for all audiences. We're returning to our ongoing series
(00:56):
on the disgraced financier and human trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. And guys,
remember we dove into his early life. We've been on
this investigation for years now. We looked at his murky
rise to fame, his relationships with so many powerful people.
Most recently, we looked into the allegations that he was
(01:17):
involved with intelligence or a spy, and I think we
walked away concluding, yes, in.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Some way, yeah, I tapped out on that one. No,
I was actually ill. But boyle, boy I gotta listen
back to what.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
You guys talked about woefully.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Outlined a lot of the talk, honestly, that we've been
having for years now about mister Epstein. Goes back to
Glene Maxwell's father and his work that is pretty well
documented in a lot of ways, and we're going to
talk about that a little more today because there are
some connections between mister Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein's dealings in
(01:57):
New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, that would be Robert Maxwell. Again, folks, please do
check out that most recent episode. Tonight, we are continuing
our explorations because we, like so many other people, explored
the stories of various Epstein properties, especially the James Island Combo,
Little Saint James, and Great Saint James. But tonight we
(02:21):
are looking at another place. It's something that didn't hit
the mass media for quite some time. What exactly was
he doing at a little place called Zoro Ranch. We'll
get into it after a word from our sponsors. Here
(02:42):
are the facts. You know, it's gonna be weird, Netflix,
fellow conspiracy realist for us to say it plainly, the
majority of people either rent a home or they own
like one maybe two. But we have to realize that
that most very wealthy people own multiple properties for multiple reasons. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Yeah, unless you're Scott Bessett, who seems to believe that
most average Americans own three or four houses. You need
a pretty tone to have comment at some public speaking
engagement where he said as much, well, I'm sure he's
a peach.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I know that dude's face. I remember that dude's face. Sorry, sorry, dude.
It's not your fault. It's just you have that face
and you go on TV and you say that kind
of stuff all the time, and it's just.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
It's also such a great opening comment to someone. There's
something in Ego Montoya about it to meet someone in
person for the first time and say, I know your face.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, but let's let's just break that down.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Really, he literally said, most retirees own five, ten, twelve homes.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Jesus, but let's let's break that down because most of
the people that guy knows probably do multiple houses. So
worldview is shaped completely by that, and who knows how
long it's been shaped by that. For folks who own
you know, a family that owns ten houses, they've been
(04:11):
they've been owning multiple houses for a.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
While, possibly generations, right, I mean, we are talking about
generational wealth.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Now, Sethary, you simply cannot marry this woman. She vacations
at one of her only three houses, and it's in
the Hamptons with the puahs.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
She simply can't provide a proper dowry.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Think of the goats, Think of the lad Think about
the properties that Jeffrey Epstein owns or was associated with.
This gets crazy really quick. We mentioned previously that he
had been given offers to purchase legitimate government buildings here
in the United States. We all know about the two
(04:54):
or three most infamous properties, like the Herbert inn Strauss
House in Manhattan. That's interesting because originally it was owned
by Les Wexner, who was kind of like his Emperor Palpatine.
For a second. He was just crashing at that house folks,
from nineteen ninety five on. He officially purchased it from
(05:16):
less Wexner in nineteen ninety eight for around twenty million dollars.
It gets sold in twenty twenty one for fifty one
million dollars per peck of a profit.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
You weren't kidding that less Wexner. He looks like Palpatine.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
He's got the grizzled visage of a super villain the.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Dark side of the Force.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's really tough owning something like Victorious Secret or you know,
bath and body works and.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
All doing sex crimes. Sorry, everybody, keep my old cat
in here. We're gonna have to move him off the frame.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
If only I should stop myself from doing all these
sex crimes, well all these bulls.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Less we Wexner, I don't think is accused, but his
money and his influence is one of the major things
that got mister Epstein to where he was what he became.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Who was like for some reason, Les Wexner was like
an angel investor for Epstein. Like, you're living at this
guy's house for free in one of the poshest areas
of the United States and one of the poshest areas
of the poshiest areas in the US.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Come on, man, dude, you guys, I'm throwing this out
here to see maybe what people think about this and
what you guys think. I just was doing some cursory
stuff on the Manhattan real estate world connected to our
current sitting president, and there's this guy I think we
(06:48):
need to do a whole episode on that We've mentioned
before in other episodes, But when we're just speaking about
that Palpatine figure in someone influential's life, this guy named
Roy Kohane. I didn't. I didn't know enough about him
for me not to have like visceral physical reactions reading
(07:08):
his life and his connections to current potus. It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
He's also quite hypocritical if you if you look at
his personal life versus his actions. Just for the problematic.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Guys and just for the record, Wexner, there have been
allegations not only that he contributed millions to Epstein in
a way enabling his sex trafficking network, but he also
had victims trafficked to him. He has not been convicted
of any crimes. But you know, small fire, all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It stinks all around, you know what I mean. You
walk into this elevator of conspiracy and crime and you
definitely smell a nasty fart and you have to say, well,
you might not have farted yourself, but you definitely stink.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Dude.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Well, Wexner claims that he was conned by said, of
course he's got great lawyers.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Who can you, guys imagine purchasing that mansion, Yes, and
knowing what we know, I don't know, Yeah, it.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Was when it was sold, as we said, in twenty
twenty one, for fifty one million dollars. Think of the
profits there. The proceeds are going to compensate the victims
of his cabal. It's it's a similar story kind of
with his mansion in Palm Beach, Florida, which we've talked
(08:36):
about both of these at length, especially because of the
surveillance that he was employing and the way it disappeared
during FBI raids. But his Palm Beach mansion, he got
that for two point five million in nineteen ninety and
it's at a place called three fifty eight Elbrio Way.
(08:57):
This was a short drive, think like ten minutes. It's
from mar A Lago and Epstein and the current US
president eventually beefed about stuff. It's also close to a
lot of other wealthy people's homes or properties. And it
was eventually sold in twenty twenty one for eighteen point
(09:17):
five million, and the new owner made a game time
decision to demolish the mansion altogether and just.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
To keep a swear down the haunted house.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, not a bad plan.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Have you guys ever driven on South Ocean Boulevard, which
is it's right there on the coast, past all of
those those rows and rows of mansions that are right
on the water.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
It is Palm Beach. Yeah, I've never been to Palm Beach.
Oh well i've been there.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I've been there close to it, and then driven by
that area out of curiosity and for family stuff. But
good lord, you guys, houses like yes, you just don't
understand the You've got like the yes yes, like like
a whole city block and there's like two to six
(10:07):
houses on that giant block. So if you imagine like
a Manhattan block and then putting just a couple of
houses on there, and you just realize, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, I remember when I had to go down there
more often. The first thing that struck me, in no
offense to our fellow Floridian conspiracy realist, My first question was,
if you have this much money, why not just live
over in the posh areas of Rhode Island? Right? Why
make a little Rhode Island in Florida. My cat gets
(10:38):
it this. So it makes sense that they would, as
Noel said, tear down the haunted house. And I agree
with you, like as I was saying that it's a
very opulent area and it's almost you know, it's like
like calls to like right, wealth speaks to wealth. So
these people don't want to live in a poor area
(10:59):
of town, have to start their own district. But for
a lot of people in those neighborhoods, obviously one house
is not enough. What are we the proletariat? One posh
mansion is not enough the real big dogs. When the
real big dogs have to eat, they buy islands. They
buy islands like Little Saint James. And yes we do. Technically,
(11:22):
folks know people who own private islands. We have not
been invited to visit those islands.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
We've definitely talked with some people who may or may
not own islands. We've also ridden on their cruise ships.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Yes we did get invited to that.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And when we met each other, we said, I know
your face, you may or may not own an island
because we're great hangouts.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Little Saint James though right, Epstein bought that property in
ninety eight for somewhere around eight million dollars.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Then here bones money, ninety money.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
That's yeah, man, what's the that's got to be what
twelve fifteen I'm guessing.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I just imagine being such a larger number even if they're.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Saying it seems like a deal and a steal, even
by nineties numbers.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Later, he acquired the nearby Great Saint James.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
We got a little Saint James.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
We got Great Saint James.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, nearby in twenty sixteen for this, Yeah, somewhere between
eighteen to twenty two point five million.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah. And then if we fast forward to we're going
to be jumping around in time in this episode, folks.
If we fast forward to twenty twenty three, we will
see that both of the Saint James's were sold as
a combo meal, as a package deal, for sixty million
dollars of a fire sale. Yeah, very much so at
(12:48):
that boy, twenty twenty three, because Epstein dies suspiciously in
twenty nineteen. So it's sold for sixty million, and the
deal they worked out with the authorities there was that
an estimated half of the proceeds are going to go
towards settlement and compensation for the survivors of Epstein's cabal.
(13:11):
He also, I'm.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Still tax break for the loss. Where does that go?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Probably one of his buddies, maybe Leo Black comes a
plater me.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I'm just imagining being that person that ends up retroactively
compensating the victims on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
That's is it like a like some sort of what
do you call that? A steward, you know, someone who's
like oversees these types of things.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's a good it's a it's a really good thing.
But it is a weird thing to be a part of,
you know, historically, I guess absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, it's also weird to be the people who bought
their slings.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
That's the word. Sorry, that's the word trust, That's what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
But yeah, how would you buy that island? How would
you how would you spend and ten point four million
dollars buying Epstein's a little bit more obscure apartment in
Parish he did have and did traffic people through. Uhh, yeah,
it's in.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
The when he was sending emails inviting people out in Paris.
Hey I'm in Paris. Come party with me, Come party
with me. I'm in Paris.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Sent from my iPhone.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, I have spent time in Paris. I think several
of us have. And the sixteenth around Dismal is pretty
fancy as well. So he's not like he's not buying. Uh,
he's not buying hideaways in bad parts of town.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
He ain't getting fixer, No, he's not.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
It's also really weird, you guys, that he had another
curious case in a place called Vail, Colorado. It's curious
because similar to his Wexner deal in Manhattan, this thing
is a it's a ski chalet. And I'm sorry, I'm
not wearing a cravat when I say that, but it's
a it's a ski chalet. It's in a primo location
(15:07):
for several pretty awesome like ski resort areas. And he
gets it through an air to the Johnson and Johnson estate.
That connection is so weird.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Johnson and Johnson, of Johnson and Johnson fan.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I gotta say, Ben, the Curious Case of the Chalet
sounds like an Agatha Christie novel.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah right, or what's that? What's that director I love?
Who does all the just so kind of films he did, like,
oh gosh, he did the one about the train, he
did Grand Budapeste Hotel. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Anderson, Yeah, he's a big he's a big Paris guy.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
There is a hotel in Paris that is like made
to resemble Wes Anderson's films.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
He has a feature with it. But anyway, now where
we've moved on from.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Paris, I love Sweeney's I thought, I think you guys
are thinking about Woody Allen. Isn't that the guy now?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So I think you're thinking about Roman Polanski. Yeah, because
that's the guy that France is gonna let her get
away with sex.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Credit God, man, if Wes Anderson comes out of the
sex past, I'm done with movies.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Surely did, surely not. We don't know what happened with
Elizabeth Ross Johnson. She's the heir of the Jay and
Jay estate who employed Epstein as her financial advisor and
get those folks, Yeah right, I get this. In nineteen
ninety eight, she made a special trust fund with herself
(16:36):
and Jeffrey Epstein as the only two trustees, which means
that technically, when she transferred this deed to this trust
a few months later, Epstein also had control of the property,
now to her credit. As far as we know, Elizabeth
(16:56):
Ross Johnson later would cut ties with Epstein, but his
name remained on the trust and she passed away in
twenty seventeen, two years before Epstein's suspicious death. While incarcerated.
The property was sold for twenty four million dollars, so
I guess that one was distant enough that the real
(17:19):
estate broker was able to say, yeah, you might see
the name of this chalet in the files, but jeff
never actually crimed here that we.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Know this amount of money that we're discussing hers.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Just adding up like the profit marketing is phenomenally unclean.
There's another one. I always texted about this would previously,
but okay, this is a true story. Just one day
before his final arrest, the one that got him in
prison where he suspiciously died, Jeffrey Epstein wired fourteen point
(17:58):
nine million US dollars to Morocco to purchase something called
the ben Anakil Palace. Again, IM not be e n right, right.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
You know, I'd been oh, yeah, just you know, a
palace for going on the lamb eighteen point nine mil.
He had been trying to buy this palace for some time,
so maybe this was just, you know, the timing was
right since twenty eleven, I believe.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, and he had apparently insulted the owner of the
place by trying to low ball them. The owner was
a German waste management tycoon, and so Epstein conspired waste management.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Was he in a mafia hilariously cliche construction.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
No, No, that's literally what Tony Soprano's fake profession is
in The Sopranos.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
It's waste management.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And so this is why we mentioned Leon Black. So
the conspiracy breaks down like this again. This has been
going on since twenty eleven. The German guy doesn't like Epstein.
He's creeped out and he thinks the dude is cheap
and trying to you know, be chenzi with him about
the price of this palace. So Epstein has a fiance
(19:16):
named Karna Schuliac who pretends to act as though she's
an agent not for Epstein but for a private equity billionaire,
a guy named Leon Black, and they continue the deal
through a proxy. It doesn't work out because he sends
even more money via Charles Schwab. That Charles Schwab, and
(19:40):
three days after Epstein is finally arrested for real, this time,
his accountant, a mister Cohen, cancels the entire deal and
then just a few days after that, it's like July
at this point. A few days later, the Schwab company
themselves goes to the US Treasury and says, hey, this
(20:00):
is suspicious that this one guy we all kind of
know about wired millions of dollars to Morocco, so just
check it in. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Now two things here, Leon Black, that name kept ringing
in my ears, and I was like, oh, yeah, that's
I remember reading about this dude. He was formerly CEO
of Apollo Global, massive power player in the world of finance. Also,
I thought about Larry David, and I was like, why
is Larry David in my head when I hear Leon's
(20:32):
Blast's roommate.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
That's yes, two different ly on Blacks big time. Yes.
So we also, okay, we have to ask at this point,
was Epstein attempting to find a bolt hole, an international
Heidi hole. The answer is difficult because, as you pointed
(20:56):
out and all, he had been working on the steel
since twenty eleven. But we also have to recall Morocco
has no standing extradition treaty with the United States. A
lot of times you're going to see very powerful people
in kind of out of the way places because of
that lack of an extradition deal. Shout out to Namibia,
(21:19):
by the way, like, do you guys ever think about
that when you're traveling. Does it ever determine your travel plans?
Like which country does not have an extradition treat I don't.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Think I'm in the right tax bracket for all that,
I'm lucky if I get to travel internationally at all.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right, same, I mean, could it have been though this
Morocco deal? Could it have been just part of his
normal investing activity. Could it have been maybe what about
this when? What if it was money laundry?
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Well, I don't quite understand. It seems like if it
was such a difficult, if he was having trouble closing
the deal, how could he have forced it just in
the nick of time to make it happen for him
given the circumstances.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
That's the part that I'm sort of missing.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Say, if we one day before his arrest, if we've
learned anything about this guy, we know that he strategically
sets up or places levers that he can pull or
others can pull. Right if come on, we have to
believe that he knew he was under investigation, like again,
and pretty heavily, so making a plan like this to
(22:22):
get you're I think you're right, Ben, making a plan
to get to a place where he would be safer
from authorities and repercussions of his actions. The Morocco deal
makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
It does make sense.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
But can you guys help me understand, Like how if
he was having such a hard time closing the deal,
what was it that allowed him to do it in
such a clutch way?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
The grift pretending to be his pal Leon Black?
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Okay, but that he done that.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
So he only just started that version of events shortly
leading up to the purchase, because the way we were
talking about earlier, it sounded like once the deal fell
through initially he pivoted and started approaching it that way.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I think they took some time and then they figured
out their conspiracy on that one.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, and they cancel a whole thing, and they said, nope,
not doing this.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yep, he's dead, let's save the money. That's what the
accountant said. I mean, we'll probably never know for sure,
but we can all agree that timing seems odd, and
we hope you think so too. So these are properties
that are maybe not often reported in a lot of
the media coverage that you've read over the past few years.
(23:32):
One of his strangest, most obscure properties is huge. It
is gigantic. It is a seven six hundred and twenty
two acre ranch out in pretty much the middle of nowhere,
like thirty miles forty something clicks south of Santa Fe
in the high desert of central New Mexico. It's a
(23:54):
it's a mansion. It's also got a log cabin. It's
got a guest house, got a pool, it's got an air.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, it's got so much more. It was or more
or other. There's just stuff out there that we don't
know about yet because it hasn't been fully thoroughly investigated yet,
because the public only found out about this pretty recently.
There were some there were a lot of allegations, but
(24:21):
they were sealed away. It wasn't until a lot of
those those files were released that I even knew about
Zoro Ranch. I didn't know it was a place that
he owned. I didn't know that was it was the
equivalent of the area of eleven Central Parks.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Think about that again.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
I only really knew about it, or started hearing about it,
when we were talking about that shutdown of airspace, remember,
and then it came up there was a conspiracy theory
or this is the idea of that it was in
some way to do with aerial photography, surveillance or a ranch.
And you know, maybe I'm just it wasn't in the
(24:59):
loop on that. But that absolutely the first time I'd
really been made aware that this place existed.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, I didn't know either.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
No, yeah, I was only finding it with like property
records for a minute, you know, and had no idea.
Just shrugged and said, well, like we mentioned, at the top,
billionaires or multi millionaires tend to own multiple properties. It's
weird though, because we know as far back as twenty
(25:25):
nineteen some members of mass media were looking into this.
State officials in New Mexico told CBS, look, Jeffrey Epstein
is a big deal. He's connected. He is very secretive
about Zworo Ranch. So despite the fact that this is
part private part public land, at least as the airstrip goes,
(25:46):
they have very little access or knowledge about what is
going on there. He got it in nineteen ninety three
for twelve million dollars, which is big money to everybody
else in ninety three, but apparently not to him. He
owned it all the way up to his death. He
never sold it. He wanted to hang on to it forever,
(26:07):
Like we're saying it flew under the radar forever. It
was only when his serious legal troubles began, and then
when he eventually suspiciously died that the media began to
re evaluate Zoro Ranch, to look at it anew Why
did he buy this place?
Speaker 5 (26:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And most disturbingly, what actually happened there? Because whatever it was,
it was probably happening for decades.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
What is Jeffrey Epstein, a New York financier that owns
apartments in Paris and Chalais What's he going to do
with an over seven thousand acre ranch. Is he gonna
he get some cows and live out his dream.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Doing like a Billy Crystal gold rush kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh okay, okay, I get his slickers.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, doing a dude ranch, Jgifer. Yeah, exactly. Well we're
going to say probably not that, and you'll see why
after a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy,
(27:18):
all right, why he bought it? This is so weird
from the jump. According to the reports, Epstein was indeed
not just globally connected or nationally connected. He was locally
connected because he purchased Zoro Ranch from the former governor
of New Mexico, a guy named Bruce King. So if
(27:40):
you are local law enforcement, right, and the governor is
connected with the guy who currently owns this thing, you
have to be very careful about how you move. That
would be their self preservation instinct or career preservation instinct.
Kicking in. There's this twenty nineteen X dreamly esoteric and
(28:01):
bizarre interview that Jeffrey Epstein has with Steve Bannon. It's
quite long, and in it he says, yeah, he says, sorry,
I was Bannon's right now talking to the worst people
I know, right, talking about guilt by association. Yeah, they
fart in elevators together, for sure. Epstein says, Look, Steve,
(28:23):
I first became interested in New Mexico way back in
nineteen ninety. So he's talking about this in twenty nineteen,
and he says, I became interested because I learned of what,
to my mind might be a new Silicon valley in
the making. A lot of scientists who once worked at
Los Alamos National Laboratory have started their own private spin
(28:48):
off research firms, pure research and applied research. People in
the nose started calling this the info mesa, which is
kind of a fun pun or play on words.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Well, people often forget about, like the Silicon Prairie, you know,
Texas Instruments and all of that, which was a sort
of another hot area region for computing technology, and a
lot of folks that started things there ended up going
and turning Silicon Valley into what it was today. So
he was trying to be ahead of the curve. He
thought he was being predictive and prescient. So that makes sense.
(29:20):
He's a businessman. He wants to invest in an area
in a region that he thinks is going to start
having some new cachet and he's in on the ground floor.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I get that right, that's how he saw it. Yeah,
or at least ah, that's a great question. That's what
he purported to be his motive. He says, I'm thinking
beyond Zoro Ranch. I've funded things like the Santa Fe Institute.
What I want to do is this is very much
like the film Pie if we remember this. We want
(29:49):
to leverage the smartest people around toward quantifying or as
he puts it, mathematicizing complex systems. So he's telling his
buddy Steve, I want to discover whether strange hitherto inexplicable
movements in physics and in the stock market, and in
other complex systems like the weather. I want to see
(30:12):
if we can quantify them, if we can articulate them
and make them easier to understand, to predict, and of
course to profit from.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
Makes sense, I mean, like, I buy it. Either way,
it's a damn good cover story.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Maybe it is a cover story. That's one of my questions. Right,
it's esoteric. But look, people with a lot of money
acquire weird hobbies and obsessions all the time. So if
this is his actual, genuine motivation, it's not that different
from what other multi millionaires do that may seem odd
(30:51):
to us. Prolls, you know, like bloodbag guy.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Well, and another good reason to have a homestead like
that kind of out in the middle of nowhere is
to you breed a race of superhuman clones of yourself
to begin to repopulate the world in the event of
a nuclear disaster.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
And eugenics does seem to be a part of his
hidden motivation if we get past the pr stuff he's
telling everybody's buddy Steve, we see that as far back
as twenty nineteen, people were speaking to the new York
Times and saying, hey, we've touched base with some of
these scientists that Epstein was so interested in. And one person,
(31:35):
unidentified female scientist apparently coming from NASA, said that Epstein
told her he wanted to quote see the human race
with his DNA by impregnating women at his new Mexico ranch. Systematically, Yeah,
he may have been attempting to, at least from some
of these scientists. He may have been attempting to create
(31:58):
like a.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Baby ranch is really freaking weird.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
And disgusting and well, and think about how human trafficking
would play into that exactly. Yeah, too populated to you know,
have candidates for breeding if he's funneling them into his
you know, baby making operation.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Let's say you buy a ranch the way he did,
and you have these plans, you have these thoughts, right,
this is what you want to do. You need to
build the facilities that are that are going to allow
these activities to take place. We talked about, you know,
the courtyard, the airstrip, the hangar, helipad, ranch office, firehouse,
seven bay, heated garage, all of the stuff that was
(32:39):
constructed on the surface. We know that construction along with
waste management is often one of those things that gets
used for organized crime.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
It's almost a joke.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
It's a trope, like like I said, that's Tony Soprano's
purported position in this planet.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Well yeah, or you know, if we know anything about Manhattan,
construction projects go on forever.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
So, but in real life, looking at you all the
airports in New York and Newark. There is this company
that was a part of building Zoro Ranch for Jeffrey Epstein.
It's called Bradbury stam Stamm. It is the largest, perhaps
(33:30):
most well known contractors in the United States, at least
the largest in New Mexico. They did things. They do
things like building private homes, residential places. They build stuff
for companies all the time. They're a huge general contractor.
Most famously guys they worked at a little place called
(33:52):
Los Alamos that mister Epstein was terribly fascinated with, and
work coming out of Los Alamos, the super secret hidden
They built a lot of the secure facilities there. They
built a lot of the other stuff for other secret areas.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
We're talking about.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
We're talking about stuff that nobody gets to know about.
It is very interesting to me that he goes to
Bradbury Stam to create this thing. There is a weird
connection here too. This is the one I was talking
about mentioning earlier. There's a connection to Robert Maxwell through
Bradbury Stam. Do we know this one?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Guys break it down for us, at least to.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Reporting coming out of the New Republic. You can find
it right now. Terrifying details exposed on who built Epstein's
New Mexico ranch. And according to writing by a journalist
and author, Alisa Valdez Rodriguez, I'm just going to read
a quote here, Bradbury Stam holds classified construction contracts at
the New Mexico nuclear weapons labs that Galaine Maxwell's father,
(34:59):
Robert Maxwell, penetrated with backdoored spy software promise. That's the
We've mentioned that one multiple times on this show. On
behalf of Israeli military intelligence in the mid nineteen eighties.
These are somewhat allegations, but somewhat just acknowledged things that
have occurred he did. This is yeah, because there is
(35:21):
stuff you can find. For the most part, you know,
amidst the redactions, publicly available FBI files and testimony of
a dude that we've talked about as well Rafael Eton,
a MASAD operations chief who used to work directly with
Robert Maxwell. And again this is according to Valdez Rodriguez.
(35:44):
But they're just saying it's pretty crazy that Bradbury stam
with that weird connection to his you know, I don't know,
what would you call Robert Maxwell to Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I would call him the ad hoc father in law.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yes, that's a really good way to put it, like
uncle Robert or something, you know, the way he would
refer to him or something. The connection to these highly
classified things, plus these weird aspirations or theoretical aspirations that
Epstein had on this giant ranch, it just, I don't know, guys,
something strikes me as strange. It feels like there's something
(36:21):
perhaps hidden on that ranch that isn't even when investigators
are going in to look at the properties. I'm imagining
there's perhaps other structures or something on that land. And
that's a complete just you know, my opinion thing.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah, And you know, speaking of opinions, let's go back
to that conversation with Jeff and Steve. If we're going
to be casual here, I listen through all of it.
It is quite esoteric. Bannon does seem very familiar with Epstein,
but he also this is not gotcha journalism about Epstein's crimes, right,
(37:03):
which we're an open secret by twenty nineteen. Epstein says
my Santa Fe Institute, and he doesn't talk about his
eugenics plan, but he does talk a lot about race
and intelligence and Peter teele level conversations about civilization. He says,
my purported plan to predict the unpredictable is a total
(37:28):
failure because systems like the stock market, in his opinion,
are miracles, not machines. Again, you can listen to this
in full on YouTube, or folks, if you would like
to save some time, you can go to an excellent
piece by David Smith over at The Guardian. Do you
think you're the devil himself? That's one of the questions
(37:51):
that Bannon asked Epstein, and you could get a summary
of the odd highlights. It's just the thing is right now,
we'll get to the present news. Whatever the case may
be for Jeffrey Epstein's own statements and whether we believe
what the guy is saying. It could be a cover
(38:13):
for his crimes, or it could just be another thing
he was doing at the same time. In addition to
the trafficking, investigators are deeply concerned that Zoro Ranch may
have been a hot spot for trafficking and horrific sexual
abuse because rumors swirled around this place for decades, folks, decades,
(38:35):
But law enforcement and to a degree even the local media,
they just had a blind spot, even though there were
so many what do you call them, high net worth
individuals visiting them all the time. Yeah, Whatody Allen was on?
Speaker 5 (38:51):
He sure was not Wes Anderson.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Not Wes Anderson. Important distinction, thank you all Yeah. Also
we know his former members of his housekeeping staff, right,
former housekeepers said Yeah, folks like Andrew Matton, Winsor passed by,
stayed for three days. Congress members would come by the ranch.
The new Mexico governor of the time, Bill Richardson would
(39:18):
come hang out.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
What were they doing riding roping broncos out on the
range Jason Curly's gold, Yeah, inventing What of these.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
People care about going to a place like that.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
It doesn't still inventing ranch dressing, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
They I just don't buy it, Like, why are they
hanging out there.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Why aren't they going to, you know, the island or whatever.
It's just like, unless there's something of interest, why are.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
They going to the other place he owns that's in
the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Right, make any sense unless there's like just it's this
stronghold of.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
It's so messed up. It's so messed up. And just
to give you a brief look at some of the
growing allegations over this time, people like Annie Farmer. Annie
Farmer is the sister of Marie Farmer. Marie Farmer is
the first person to file a criminal complaint about Epstein
(40:10):
to the FBI. Annie Farmer, Marie's sister, said that in
nineteen ninety six she had been taken to that ranch
and sexually abused by not just Jeffrey Epstein, but also
by Gilaine Maxwell. And if we want to jump in
time a little bit, just to get some more context here,
we have to talk about an excellent piece by Australia's
(40:34):
Sixty Minutes, which came out quite recently, in which we
see an interview with Seante Davies. She recalls how Epstein
trafficked her to multiple properties between two thousand and one
and two thousand and five, took her from the Caribbean
to New York, from Paris to Saint Tropez and Zorro, Ranch,
(40:55):
she said, was by far and away the worst place
of all. We've got some quotes for you here directly
from Davies, and just be aware there is some strong language.
Speaker 5 (41:06):
Yeap trigger warning big time. This is rough.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
She talks about feeling like a mouse in a cage,
being trapped until she received word that she was being
summoned by mister Epstein who was quote ready for his
massage now, and when asked what that meant, the implication
being that it was sort of a coded language, she
(41:32):
responded the R word. I want to say it full on,
forced on sexual rape.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I'm thinking about all these properties that we've mentioned. An
apartment in Paris, in an apartment in New York, or
you know, house in New York. These are somewhat public places.
If you try and put yourself in the mindset of
someone who is being trafficked at one of those places,
(42:04):
At least in my mind right now, I can picture
somehow finding a way to get out the front door
and escaping, right and there would be other people that
like that's the biggest There'd be other people, there'd be
forms of transportation, there would.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Be escape, are we not talking about in this situation?
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Basically trying to escape could mean dying of exposure, could
be trapped, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
That's exactly what I'm thinking about here, the island and
the ranch as being two completely isolated places where you
are trapped there literally physically, emotionally everything. You literally cannot
escape the grasp once you are in those locations. Like
that makes that is horrific.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Why do you think super villains always live on islands?
And then the strongholds built into the sides of mountains,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (42:58):
It all tracks, yeah, and to the eugenics conversation or
the allegations of that. Davies also recounts how she She's
very careful to say she never personally witnessed this, but
she did speak with multiple other victims and survivors who
would tell her about, quote, waking up in a dark
(43:19):
room with a female doctor standing over them and feeling
like maybe there is some kind of procedure that happened.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
You gotta wonder was it testing of fertility, you know,
or like very I mean, was.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
It taking of their eggs reproductive materials?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
You know, do you guys remember one of the main
plots in X Files and how it revolved around taking
the DNA of every every American. At least I don't
want to spoil too much of the X file, one
of the one of the plots is taking the DNA
of every American, especially women who are able to have children,
in the stealing of their eggs for medical testing purposes.
(44:00):
I won't spoil the stuff, but that was one of
the plots. I know, that's just a show, that's just whatever.
But if you want to do human testing under the radar,
maybe getting a hold of a bunch of eggs wouldn't
be such a bad idea in a horrific way, getting
a bunch of a person's eggs, which is a procedure
(44:22):
you can do.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yeah, that is correct, and usually it's above board and
it's to help those people and their families. But this
exactly does not seem to be the case at that point.
These are testimonies of survivors, right, So we don't have
any documentation that's been publicly revealed about this alleged eugenic scheme,
(44:44):
but we do know there are problems with the investigations
as investigators started to look back through the timeline quite recently.
They found that these allegations and many other allegations seem
to have repeatedly ignored or covered up. You know what,
what if we take a break for a word from
(45:06):
our sponsors, and then we get to what we'll call
a lack of a raid, we're back. In twenty nineteen,
the FBI gained search warrants for multiple Epstein properties, the
town home in Manhattan, the Island of Little Saint James.
But despite all the allegations, there was never an FBI
(45:30):
raid on Zoro Ranch. New Mexico had a probe going
on toward the allegations around the ranch, but they shelved
it in twenty nineteen. Get this at the request of
federal prosecutors in New York. They were onto something, and
the New York Cats told them to shut down. They
said their reasoning made sense from a legal perspective at
(45:53):
the time. Their official reasoning to New Mexico was, we
are concerned that if you guys do a parallel investigation
or parallel research, you're we're going to have a case
where a victim or survivor is interviewed multiple times. And
they could contradict themselves, which weakens what we're trying to do.
(46:14):
The thing is, later files show the FEDS did take
the case. New Mexico agreed, and the Feds shut it
down internally, they just didn't tell anyone.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Isn't that weird Because as a part of an investigation,
you can do a whole lot of different things, and
in reviewing witnesses is one of those, and getting official
statements like that, but another big part would be physically
going through with search warrants and looking at a place
and discovering what you can find in that location. And
(46:47):
that got shut down, yes.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Once got shut down hard. And we actually we learn
more about the files because that saviyeor twenty nineteen. We've
got to shout out one of our brothers in audio,
a radio host named Eddie Aragon. I think we all
read the story here. He got an anonymous email from
someone who claimed to be a former ranch employee, and
(47:13):
they said that in return for one bitcoin. It's twenty nineteen,
so one bitcoin is about like eight grand or something.
He said for this person, whomever they were, said for
one bitcoin, they will provide video documentation not only of
Jeffrey Epstein, abusing children. But they will also reveal the
(47:34):
location of two what do you call them, foreign girls
whose bodies were buried somewhere on the property. That is insane.
And luckily our guy Eddie, he immediately sent this to
the FBI. And it looks like the FBI did nothing.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
Yep, hence the lack of raid previously mentioned.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Well, and we don't know that could be legitimate it
or that could be complete bupkis. We just don't. We
don't know, right and I suppose neither neither did the FBI.
But I do wonder if they, you know, did some
digging at all or they just shelved it.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
And guys, I know I missed the conversation around Epstein
as asset, but I do have to wonder, like if
you guys got into this notion of like, how far
will the government go in looking the other way from
horrific acts in the service of the greater good?
Speaker 5 (48:28):
Oh no, and what they get out of this person.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
As so far, so far, my friends, they will go
very far just to get.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
To the kind of crux of what that episode was about, nol.
It's about if this guy is in some way working
for or a part of an intelligence agency or multiple
intelligence agencies, or you know, a group that oversees intelligence agencies.
The the the thing that he did, whether he did
(48:57):
it on purpose or for someone or not, was he
gathered compromat on people so they could be controlled.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
So, because if person A knows that Jeffrey Epstein has
video of them engaging in these acts that are not
only illegal, they're abhorrent, you may person A may do
what whoever person B is says. So it doesn't have
(49:25):
to be Epstein controlling people. It could be somebody else
controlling person A via Epstein's dirt that he got on them.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah, agent asset versus full on salary man's spy. Right.
A lot of people just have conversations and provide connections
or leverage or compromat. Reuters comes to bat or the
FBI when they're talking about the what appears to be
a cover up of this investigation. They say, hey, everybody,
(49:54):
friends and neighbors, the FBI was riddled with on true
and sensationalistic claims about the the Epstein saga, right, And
they said a lot of these could not be corroborated
or they were found to be completely false. That is
understandable because we know often when laurd terrifying stories make
(50:18):
national news, there are a ton of people who, for
one reason or another, will make false reports. But this
doesn't seem to be the case because the FBI never
came out and said, hey, we looked into this and
we just determined it was not true. They kept all
their documents, all their correspondencies about this secret. They definitely
(50:40):
didn't seem interested in following up on this report of
buried victims. But public awareness is growing at this point.
Right the concern is growing. And while it is growing,
while Epstein is arrested and dies, the ranch itself ranch
(51:00):
is sitting around, mostly abandoned, mostly unused, as far as
we can tell, until twenty twenty three, when a sketchy
comptroller enters the chat.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
It wasn't he a new Mexico senator and also comptroller.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Texas businessman politician and at the time he was candidate
for a comptroller.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
There we go, Don.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Huffing's huffines this okay, So this kind of purchase happens
through this Matroshka doll. A lot of big time purchases
happened this way. A newly minted limited liability corporation called
San Mafael Ranch buys the property. We don't know how
much they paid, but they paid a lot less than
the asking price, and later investigations find this thing. This
(51:50):
entity was created to disguise the identities of the people
purchasing this and owning it, and that person was Don
Huffings and his family, So they definitely didn't want people
to know that they were buying this. They did change
the name of the ranch. It's no longer Zoro Ranch,
(52:11):
It's Rancho de San Raphael. And the current news they
have is that they're going to use this property as
a Christian retreat. For anybody who's listened to things like
Anna Waki, you can imagine why we would be skeptical
about Christian retreats.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
I've been to some Christian retreats that were just fine,
They're wonderful.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
I've been that don't wreck I get it.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, exactly, someone were great, just saying the bad things
can't happen there. It's blowing my mind that Sean Combe's
property was raided. And was that twenty twenty five or
twenty four? Guys, do you remember, well.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
I want to say twenty twenty five but so much
has happened. It might be right, it might be twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
I don't know, just the idea that they raided his home.
But then they're like, oh, Epstein's got another giant place
where we don't to raid that. That's so crazy to me.
Speaker 3 (53:03):
Mm, yeah, it is. It's anomalists to say the least
at the you know what, No, to say the least.
It is rank incompetence. That's the only non conspiratorial way
to explain it.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Well, it feels like a choice. I don't think it's
in common. I think is a choice. Somebody shows that
that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah, I'm saying if there was not a conspiracy, then
the only explanation would be incompetence. That's like the choice
is the conspiracy. Epstein never faced charges in New Mexico.
We know the ag office in New Mexico, the Attorney
General confirmed that they interviewed possible victims who had visited
(53:44):
the Zoro ranch. It wasn't until late last year twenty
twenty five, folks, that the lawmakers of Santa Fe called
for an investigation. They pushed to create a truth commission
to figure out what went down at Zoro Ranch to
figure out what, if anything, could be discovered on the property.
(54:05):
They finally succeeded. February of this year, New Mexico's House
of Reps passed a bill creating the Truth Commission. They've
been kind of tight lipped about the investigation because it
is no on going case, right, but very clever journalists
at the Santa Fe New Mexican found public records that
show the use of cadaver dogs and drones and vehicles
(54:28):
to search the property. It's going to be slow going
because again, this area is vast, it's in the middle
of nowhere. You know, this is high desert, and you
know with that. In step with this investigation, going back
to sixty minutes of Australia, we see more and more
witnesses and survivors coming forward. One congresswoman from Santa Fe,
(54:54):
Melanie Stansbury, talks about an alleged victim who reports being
invited to the branch and then being drugged and witnessing
multiple other young men being drugged and sexually assaulted in
front of him, kind of like en mass or serially.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Sorry, I just don't want to say about those things, man.
Speaker 3 (55:15):
Same it's unclean passwords to be honest, and again those
are technically allegations. At this point, there has been the
one convicted in a court of law for this. Authorities
in New Mexico right now, as we record on May eighth, Friday,
twenty twenty six, they are trying to determine how many
(55:36):
local people were abused at the ranch, and a number
of residents have come forward with fresh allegations. This is
also complicated, folks, by the fact that New Mexico historically,
as a lot of us know, has one of the
highest rates of missing and murdered indigenous people in the
(55:56):
entire country. So it is quite possible that other bodies
could be found that might not even be related to
these horrors, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (56:06):
Just looking at the reporting out of the Santa Fe,
New Mexican and specifically stuff from clear Bates there. Just
looking at how what's his name, Halfines, I think is
how you say it. The current owner, how Halfinds has
actually been super cooperative now that he or whatever LLC
(56:30):
you know has been structure owns it, but he's been
super open to cooperating and letting, you know, letting authorities
go through there. In some of the newer investigation. It
certainly doesn't seem like we've had enough time to do
a full search of that property. Just think about how
huge that property is. Along with this reporting, they're talking
(56:52):
about a couple what are the cadaver dogs that have
been on the property looking, you know, in various places.
But how do you cover over seven thousand acres with
cadaver dogs?
Speaker 5 (57:03):
My god.
Speaker 3 (57:03):
Yeah, they're hoping to use imaging right now. If you
listen to the reports, there's been some wide scale imaging
techniques applied to the area and now they're doing technical analysis.
So that'll help better target the drones, better target the
the corpse dogs, and it'll also hopefully give investigators a
(57:28):
better idea of where to dig. But we're talking three
decades of potentially terrifying stuff. You know, we're working against
time here because there have been plenty of years for
evidence to be removed, to have eroded, to have deteriorated,
or to be compromised. So the most powerful agencies in
(57:50):
the land for decades, apparently on some level, like some
members of some agencies, clearly we're involved with covering this up.
Now the question becomes not just what will investigators discover.
It's also now a question of whether they will be
allowed to disclose any of it, As the Truth Commission says,
(58:12):
will the Epstein files turn into Epstein trials? We just
know that for decades, even now, Zoro Ranch seems to
be home to stuff the powerful don't want you to know.
Speaker 5 (58:24):
Yeah, I'd see so well.
Speaker 3 (58:26):
We want to know your thoughts, folks. Thank you so
much for tuning in again. This is something that we
talk about off air pretty often. We are personally troubled
to explore and cover some of this, but we do
feel it's our remit and we would love to hear
from you. Do you think the investigation will find anything?
(58:48):
Do you think the public will learn anything? Will there
be justice for Epstein's survivors? Let us know? Find us
on the lines, call us on the phone, please send
us an email, please do.
Speaker 4 (58:58):
If you want to find us online, you can do
so by looking for the handle Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy
Stuff Show.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
Hey, do you want to call us? Our phone number
is one eight three three STDWYK. When you call in,
give yourself a cool nickname so we can put you
in the system and we'll recognize you if you call
in again. It's fun to do that for us, and
then we get a continuing conversation within that message. Please
let us know if we can use your name and
(59:25):
message on one of our listener mail episodes that show
up in the audio feeds of this show. So if
you're watching it on Netflix, you'll go to one of
the other places to listen to that episode. If you
want to send us an email, you can do that.
Speaker 3 (59:38):
We are It's a phenomenal way to contact us directly. Folks.
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet I'm afraid sometimes the
void writes back. We can't wait to hear from you
out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nol.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal fagd. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. Please be advised, fellow
conspiracy realist, this episode or this series may not be
appropriate for all audiences. We're returning to our ongoing series
(00:56):
on the disgraced financier and human trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. And guys,
remember we dove into his early life. We've been on
this investigation for years now. We looked at his murky
rise to fame, his relationships with so many powerful people.
Most recently, we looked into the allegations that he was
(01:17):
involved with intelligence or a spy, and I think we
walked away concluding, yes, in.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Some way, yeah, I tapped out on that one. No,
I was actually ill. But boyle, boy I gotta listen
back to what.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
You guys talked about woefully.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Outlined a lot of the talk, honestly, that we've been
having for years now about mister Epstein. Goes back to
Glene Maxwell's father and his work that is pretty well
documented in a lot of ways, and we're going to
talk about that a little more today because there are
some connections between mister Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein's dealings in
(01:57):
New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, that would be Robert Maxwell. Again, folks, please do
check out that most recent episode. Tonight, we are continuing
our explorations because we, like so many other people, explored
the stories of various Epstein properties, especially the James Island Combo,
Little Saint James, and Great Saint James. But tonight we
(02:21):
are looking at another place. It's something that didn't hit
the mass media for quite some time. What exactly was
he doing at a little place called Zoro Ranch. We'll
get into it after a word from our sponsors. Here
(02:42):
are the facts. You know, it's gonna be weird, Netflix,
fellow conspiracy realist for us to say it plainly, the
majority of people either rent a home or they own
like one maybe two. But we have to realize that
that most very wealthy people own multiple properties for multiple reasons. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Yeah, unless you're Scott Bessett, who seems to believe that
most average Americans own three or four houses. You need
a pretty tone to have comment at some public speaking
engagement where he said as much, well, I'm sure he's
a peach.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I know that dude's face. I remember that dude's face. Sorry, sorry, dude.
It's not your fault. It's just you have that face
and you go on TV and you say that kind
of stuff all the time, and it's just.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
It's also such a great opening comment to someone. There's
something in Ego Montoya about it to meet someone in
person for the first time and say, I know your face.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, but let's let's just break that down.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Really, he literally said, most retirees own five, ten, twelve homes.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Jesus, but let's let's break that down because most of
the people that guy knows probably do multiple houses. So
worldview is shaped completely by that, and who knows how
long it's been shaped by that. For folks who own
you know, a family that owns ten houses, they've been
(04:11):
they've been owning multiple houses for a.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
While, possibly generations, right, I mean, we are talking about
generational wealth.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Now, Sethary, you simply cannot marry this woman. She vacations
at one of her only three houses, and it's in
the Hamptons with the puahs.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
She simply can't provide a proper dowry.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Think of the goats, Think of the lad Think about
the properties that Jeffrey Epstein owns or was associated with.
This gets crazy really quick. We mentioned previously that he
had been given offers to purchase legitimate government buildings here
in the United States. We all know about the two
(04:54):
or three most infamous properties, like the Herbert inn Strauss
House in Manhattan. That's interesting because originally it was owned
by Les Wexner, who was kind of like his Emperor Palpatine.
For a second. He was just crashing at that house folks,
from nineteen ninety five on. He officially purchased it from
(05:16):
less Wexner in nineteen ninety eight for around twenty million dollars.
It gets sold in twenty twenty one for fifty one
million dollars per peck of a profit.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
You weren't kidding that less Wexner. He looks like Palpatine.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
He's got the grizzled visage of a super villain the.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Dark side of the Force.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's really tough owning something like Victorious Secret or you know,
bath and body works and.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
All doing sex crimes. Sorry, everybody, keep my old cat
in here. We're gonna have to move him off the frame.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
If only I should stop myself from doing all these
sex crimes, well all these bulls.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Less we Wexner, I don't think is accused, but his
money and his influence is one of the major things
that got mister Epstein to where he was what he became.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Who was like for some reason, Les Wexner was like
an angel investor for Epstein. Like, you're living at this
guy's house for free in one of the poshest areas
of the United States and one of the poshest areas
of the poshiest areas in the US.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Come on, man, dude, you guys, I'm throwing this out
here to see maybe what people think about this and
what you guys think. I just was doing some cursory
stuff on the Manhattan real estate world connected to our
current sitting president, and there's this guy I think we
(06:48):
need to do a whole episode on that We've mentioned
before in other episodes, But when we're just speaking about
that Palpatine figure in someone influential's life, this guy named
Roy Kohane. I didn't. I didn't know enough about him
for me not to have like visceral physical reactions reading
(07:08):
his life and his connections to current potus. It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
He's also quite hypocritical if you if you look at
his personal life versus his actions. Just for the problematic.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Guys and just for the record, Wexner, there have been
allegations not only that he contributed millions to Epstein in
a way enabling his sex trafficking network, but he also
had victims trafficked to him. He has not been convicted
of any crimes. But you know, small fire, all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It stinks all around, you know what I mean. You
walk into this elevator of conspiracy and crime and you
definitely smell a nasty fart and you have to say, well,
you might not have farted yourself, but you definitely stink.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Dude.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Well, Wexner claims that he was conned by said, of
course he's got great lawyers.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Who can you, guys imagine purchasing that mansion, Yes, and
knowing what we know, I don't know, Yeah, it.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Was when it was sold, as we said, in twenty
twenty one, for fifty one million dollars. Think of the
profits there. The proceeds are going to compensate the victims
of his cabal. It's it's a similar story kind of
with his mansion in Palm Beach, Florida, which we've talked
(08:36):
about both of these at length, especially because of the
surveillance that he was employing and the way it disappeared
during FBI raids. But his Palm Beach mansion, he got
that for two point five million in nineteen ninety and
it's at a place called three fifty eight Elbrio Way.
(08:57):
This was a short drive, think like ten minutes. It's
from mar A Lago and Epstein and the current US
president eventually beefed about stuff. It's also close to a
lot of other wealthy people's homes or properties. And it
was eventually sold in twenty twenty one for eighteen point
(09:17):
five million, and the new owner made a game time
decision to demolish the mansion altogether and just.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
To keep a swear down the haunted house.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, not a bad plan.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Have you guys ever driven on South Ocean Boulevard, which
is it's right there on the coast, past all of
those those rows and rows of mansions that are right
on the water.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
It is Palm Beach. Yeah, I've never been to Palm Beach.
Oh well i've been there.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I've been there close to it, and then driven by
that area out of curiosity and for family stuff. But
good lord, you guys, houses like yes, you just don't
understand the You've got like the yes yes, like like
a whole city block and there's like two to six
(10:07):
houses on that giant block. So if you imagine like
a Manhattan block and then putting just a couple of
houses on there, and you just realize, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, I remember when I had to go down there
more often. The first thing that struck me, in no
offense to our fellow Floridian conspiracy realist, My first question was,
if you have this much money, why not just live
over in the posh areas of Rhode Island? Right? Why
make a little Rhode Island in Florida. My cat gets
(10:38):
it this. So it makes sense that they would, as
Noel said, tear down the haunted house. And I agree
with you, like as I was saying that it's a
very opulent area and it's almost you know, it's like
like calls to like right, wealth speaks to wealth. So
these people don't want to live in a poor area
(10:59):
of town, have to start their own district. But for
a lot of people in those neighborhoods, obviously one house
is not enough. What are we the proletariat? One posh
mansion is not enough the real big dogs. When the
real big dogs have to eat, they buy islands. They
buy islands like Little Saint James. And yes we do. Technically,
(11:22):
folks know people who own private islands. We have not
been invited to visit those islands.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
We've definitely talked with some people who may or may
not own islands. We've also ridden on their cruise ships.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Yes we did get invited to that.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And when we met each other, we said, I know
your face, you may or may not own an island
because we're great hangouts.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Little Saint James though right, Epstein bought that property in
ninety eight for somewhere around eight million dollars.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Then here bones money, ninety money.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
That's yeah, man, what's the that's got to be what
twelve fifteen I'm guessing.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I just imagine being such a larger number even if they're.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Saying it seems like a deal and a steal, even
by nineties numbers.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Later, he acquired the nearby Great Saint James.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
We got a little Saint James.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
We got Great Saint James.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, nearby in twenty sixteen for this, Yeah, somewhere between
eighteen to twenty two point five million.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah. And then if we fast forward to we're going
to be jumping around in time in this episode, folks.
If we fast forward to twenty twenty three, we will
see that both of the Saint James's were sold as
a combo meal, as a package deal, for sixty million
dollars of a fire sale. Yeah, very much so at
(12:48):
that boy, twenty twenty three, because Epstein dies suspiciously in
twenty nineteen. So it's sold for sixty million, and the
deal they worked out with the authorities there was that
an estimated half of the proceeds are going to go
towards settlement and compensation for the survivors of Epstein's cabal.
(13:11):
He also, I'm.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Still tax break for the loss. Where does that go?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Probably one of his buddies, maybe Leo Black comes a
plater me.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I'm just imagining being that person that ends up retroactively
compensating the victims on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
That's is it like a like some sort of what
do you call that? A steward, you know, someone who's
like oversees these types of things.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's a good it's a it's a really good thing.
But it is a weird thing to be a part of,
you know, historically, I guess absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, it's also weird to be the people who bought
their slings.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
That's the word. Sorry, that's the word trust, That's what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
But yeah, how would you buy that island? How would
you how would you spend and ten point four million
dollars buying Epstein's a little bit more obscure apartment in
Parish he did have and did traffic people through. Uhh, yeah,
it's in.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
The when he was sending emails inviting people out in Paris.
Hey I'm in Paris. Come party with me, Come party
with me. I'm in Paris.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Sent from my iPhone.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, I have spent time in Paris. I think several
of us have. And the sixteenth around Dismal is pretty
fancy as well. So he's not like he's not buying. Uh,
he's not buying hideaways in bad parts of town.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
He ain't getting fixer, No, he's not.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
It's also really weird, you guys, that he had another
curious case in a place called Vail, Colorado. It's curious
because similar to his Wexner deal in Manhattan, this thing
is a it's a ski chalet. And I'm sorry, I'm
not wearing a cravat when I say that, but it's
a it's a ski chalet. It's in a primo location
(15:07):
for several pretty awesome like ski resort areas. And he
gets it through an air to the Johnson and Johnson estate.
That connection is so weird.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Johnson and Johnson, of Johnson and Johnson fan.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I gotta say, Ben, the Curious Case of the Chalet
sounds like an Agatha Christie novel.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah right, or what's that? What's that director I love?
Who does all the just so kind of films he did, like,
oh gosh, he did the one about the train, he
did Grand Budapeste Hotel. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Anderson, Yeah, he's a big he's a big Paris guy.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
There is a hotel in Paris that is like made
to resemble Wes Anderson's films.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
He has a feature with it. But anyway, now where
we've moved on from.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Paris, I love Sweeney's I thought, I think you guys
are thinking about Woody Allen. Isn't that the guy now?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So I think you're thinking about Roman Polanski. Yeah, because
that's the guy that France is gonna let her get
away with sex.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Credit God, man, if Wes Anderson comes out of the
sex past, I'm done with movies.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Surely did, surely not. We don't know what happened with
Elizabeth Ross Johnson. She's the heir of the Jay and
Jay estate who employed Epstein as her financial advisor and
get those folks, Yeah right, I get this. In nineteen
ninety eight, she made a special trust fund with herself
(16:36):
and Jeffrey Epstein as the only two trustees, which means
that technically, when she transferred this deed to this trust
a few months later, Epstein also had control of the property,
now to her credit. As far as we know, Elizabeth
(16:56):
Ross Johnson later would cut ties with Epstein, but his
name remained on the trust and she passed away in
twenty seventeen, two years before Epstein's suspicious death. While incarcerated.
The property was sold for twenty four million dollars, so
I guess that one was distant enough that the real
(17:19):
estate broker was able to say, yeah, you might see
the name of this chalet in the files, but jeff
never actually crimed here that we.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Know this amount of money that we're discussing hers.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Just adding up like the profit marketing is phenomenally unclean.
There's another one. I always texted about this would previously,
but okay, this is a true story. Just one day
before his final arrest, the one that got him in
prison where he suspiciously died, Jeffrey Epstein wired fourteen point
(17:58):
nine million US dollars to Morocco to purchase something called
the ben Anakil Palace. Again, IM not be e n right, right.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
You know, I'd been oh, yeah, just you know, a
palace for going on the lamb eighteen point nine mil.
He had been trying to buy this palace for some time,
so maybe this was just, you know, the timing was
right since twenty eleven, I believe.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, and he had apparently insulted the owner of the
place by trying to low ball them. The owner was
a German waste management tycoon, and so Epstein conspired waste management.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Was he in a mafia hilariously cliche construction.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
No, No, that's literally what Tony Soprano's fake profession is
in The Sopranos.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
It's waste management.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And so this is why we mentioned Leon Black. So
the conspiracy breaks down like this again. This has been
going on since twenty eleven. The German guy doesn't like Epstein.
He's creeped out and he thinks the dude is cheap
and trying to you know, be chenzi with him about
the price of this palace. So Epstein has a fiance
(19:16):
named Karna Schuliac who pretends to act as though she's
an agent not for Epstein but for a private equity billionaire,
a guy named Leon Black, and they continue the deal
through a proxy. It doesn't work out because he sends
even more money via Charles Schwab. That Charles Schwab, and
(19:40):
three days after Epstein is finally arrested for real, this time,
his accountant, a mister Cohen, cancels the entire deal and
then just a few days after that, it's like July
at this point. A few days later, the Schwab company
themselves goes to the US Treasury and says, hey, this
(20:00):
is suspicious that this one guy we all kind of
know about wired millions of dollars to Morocco, so just
check it in. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Now two things here, Leon Black, that name kept ringing
in my ears, and I was like, oh, yeah, that's
I remember reading about this dude. He was formerly CEO
of Apollo Global, massive power player in the world of finance. Also,
I thought about Larry David, and I was like, why
is Larry David in my head when I hear Leon's
(20:32):
Blast's roommate.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
That's yes, two different ly on Blacks big time. Yes.
So we also, okay, we have to ask at this point,
was Epstein attempting to find a bolt hole, an international
Heidi hole. The answer is difficult because, as you pointed
(20:56):
out and all, he had been working on the steel
since twenty eleven. But we also have to recall Morocco
has no standing extradition treaty with the United States. A
lot of times you're going to see very powerful people
in kind of out of the way places because of
that lack of an extradition deal. Shout out to Namibia,
(21:19):
by the way, like, do you guys ever think about
that when you're traveling. Does it ever determine your travel plans?
Like which country does not have an extradition treat I don't.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Think I'm in the right tax bracket for all that,
I'm lucky if I get to travel internationally at all.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right, same, I mean, could it have been though this
Morocco deal? Could it have been just part of his
normal investing activity. Could it have been maybe what about
this when? What if it was money laundry?
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Well, I don't quite understand. It seems like if it
was such a difficult, if he was having trouble closing
the deal, how could he have forced it just in
the nick of time to make it happen for him
given the circumstances.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
That's the part that I'm sort of missing.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Say, if we one day before his arrest, if we've
learned anything about this guy, we know that he strategically
sets up or places levers that he can pull or
others can pull. Right if come on, we have to
believe that he knew he was under investigation, like again,
and pretty heavily, so making a plan like this to
(22:22):
get you're I think you're right, Ben, making a plan
to get to a place where he would be safer
from authorities and repercussions of his actions. The Morocco deal
makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
It does make sense.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
But can you guys help me understand, Like how if
he was having such a hard time closing the deal,
what was it that allowed him to do it in
such a clutch way?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
The grift pretending to be his pal Leon Black?
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Okay, but that he done that.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
So he only just started that version of events shortly
leading up to the purchase, because the way we were
talking about earlier, it sounded like once the deal fell
through initially he pivoted and started approaching it that way.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I think they took some time and then they figured
out their conspiracy on that one.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, and they cancel a whole thing, and they said, nope,
not doing this.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yep, he's dead, let's save the money. That's what the
accountant said. I mean, we'll probably never know for sure,
but we can all agree that timing seems odd, and
we hope you think so too. So these are properties
that are maybe not often reported in a lot of
the media coverage that you've read over the past few years.
(23:32):
One of his strangest, most obscure properties is huge. It
is gigantic. It is a seven six hundred and twenty
two acre ranch out in pretty much the middle of nowhere,
like thirty miles forty something clicks south of Santa Fe
in the high desert of central New Mexico. It's a
(23:54):
it's a mansion. It's also got a log cabin. It's
got a guest house, got a pool, it's got an air.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, it's got so much more. It was or more
or other. There's just stuff out there that we don't
know about yet because it hasn't been fully thoroughly investigated yet,
because the public only found out about this pretty recently.
There were some there were a lot of allegations, but
(24:21):
they were sealed away. It wasn't until a lot of
those those files were released that I even knew about
Zoro Ranch. I didn't know it was a place that
he owned. I didn't know that was it was the
equivalent of the area of eleven Central Parks.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Think about that again.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
I only really knew about it, or started hearing about it,
when we were talking about that shutdown of airspace, remember,
and then it came up there was a conspiracy theory
or this is the idea of that it was in
some way to do with aerial photography, surveillance or a ranch.
And you know, maybe I'm just it wasn't in the
(24:59):
loop on that. But that absolutely the first time I'd
really been made aware that this place existed.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, I didn't know either.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
No, yeah, I was only finding it with like property
records for a minute, you know, and had no idea.
Just shrugged and said, well, like we mentioned, at the top,
billionaires or multi millionaires tend to own multiple properties. It's
weird though, because we know as far back as twenty
(25:25):
nineteen some members of mass media were looking into this.
State officials in New Mexico told CBS, look, Jeffrey Epstein
is a big deal. He's connected. He is very secretive
about Zworo Ranch. So despite the fact that this is
part private part public land, at least as the airstrip goes,
(25:46):
they have very little access or knowledge about what is
going on there. He got it in nineteen ninety three
for twelve million dollars, which is big money to everybody
else in ninety three, but apparently not to him. He
owned it all the way up to his death. He
never sold it. He wanted to hang on to it forever,
(26:07):
Like we're saying it flew under the radar forever. It
was only when his serious legal troubles began, and then
when he eventually suspiciously died that the media began to
re evaluate Zoro Ranch, to look at it anew Why
did he buy this place?
Speaker 5 (26:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And most disturbingly, what actually happened there? Because whatever it was,
it was probably happening for decades.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
What is Jeffrey Epstein, a New York financier that owns
apartments in Paris and Chalais What's he going to do
with an over seven thousand acre ranch. Is he gonna
he get some cows and live out his dream.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Doing like a Billy Crystal gold rush kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh okay, okay, I get his slickers.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, doing a dude ranch, Jgifer. Yeah, exactly. Well we're
going to say probably not that, and you'll see why
after a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy,
(27:18):
all right, why he bought it? This is so weird
from the jump. According to the reports, Epstein was indeed
not just globally connected or nationally connected. He was locally
connected because he purchased Zoro Ranch from the former governor
of New Mexico, a guy named Bruce King. So if
(27:40):
you are local law enforcement, right, and the governor is
connected with the guy who currently owns this thing, you
have to be very careful about how you move. That
would be their self preservation instinct or career preservation instinct.
Kicking in. There's this twenty nineteen X dreamly esoteric and
(28:01):
bizarre interview that Jeffrey Epstein has with Steve Bannon. It's
quite long, and in it he says, yeah, he says, sorry,
I was Bannon's right now talking to the worst people
I know, right, talking about guilt by association. Yeah, they
fart in elevators together, for sure. Epstein says, Look, Steve,
(28:23):
I first became interested in New Mexico way back in
nineteen ninety. So he's talking about this in twenty nineteen,
and he says, I became interested because I learned of what,
to my mind might be a new Silicon valley in
the making. A lot of scientists who once worked at
Los Alamos National Laboratory have started their own private spin
(28:48):
off research firms, pure research and applied research. People in
the nose started calling this the info mesa, which is
kind of a fun pun or play on words.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Well, people often forget about, like the Silicon Prairie, you know,
Texas Instruments and all of that, which was a sort
of another hot area region for computing technology, and a
lot of folks that started things there ended up going
and turning Silicon Valley into what it was today. So
he was trying to be ahead of the curve. He
thought he was being predictive and prescient. So that makes sense.
(29:20):
He's a businessman. He wants to invest in an area
in a region that he thinks is going to start
having some new cachet and he's in on the ground floor.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I get that right, that's how he saw it. Yeah,
or at least ah, that's a great question. That's what
he purported to be his motive. He says, I'm thinking
beyond Zoro Ranch. I've funded things like the Santa Fe Institute.
What I want to do is this is very much
like the film Pie if we remember this. We want
(29:49):
to leverage the smartest people around toward quantifying or as
he puts it, mathematicizing complex systems. So he's telling his
buddy Steve, I want to discover whether strange hitherto inexplicable
movements in physics and in the stock market, and in
other complex systems like the weather. I want to see
(30:12):
if we can quantify them, if we can articulate them
and make them easier to understand, to predict, and of
course to profit from.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
Makes sense, I mean, like, I buy it. Either way,
it's a damn good cover story.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Maybe it is a cover story. That's one of my questions. Right,
it's esoteric. But look, people with a lot of money
acquire weird hobbies and obsessions all the time. So if
this is his actual, genuine motivation, it's not that different
from what other multi millionaires do that may seem odd
(30:51):
to us. Prolls, you know, like bloodbag guy.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Well, and another good reason to have a homestead like
that kind of out in the middle of nowhere is
to you breed a race of superhuman clones of yourself
to begin to repopulate the world in the event of
a nuclear disaster.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
And eugenics does seem to be a part of his
hidden motivation if we get past the pr stuff he's
telling everybody's buddy Steve, we see that as far back
as twenty nineteen, people were speaking to the new York
Times and saying, hey, we've touched base with some of
these scientists that Epstein was so interested in. And one person,
(31:35):
unidentified female scientist apparently coming from NASA, said that Epstein
told her he wanted to quote see the human race
with his DNA by impregnating women at his new Mexico ranch. Systematically, Yeah,
he may have been attempting to, at least from some
of these scientists. He may have been attempting to create
(31:58):
like a.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Baby ranch is really freaking weird.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
And disgusting and well, and think about how human trafficking
would play into that exactly. Yeah, too populated to you know,
have candidates for breeding if he's funneling them into his
you know, baby making operation.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Let's say you buy a ranch the way he did,
and you have these plans, you have these thoughts, right,
this is what you want to do. You need to
build the facilities that are that are going to allow
these activities to take place. We talked about, you know,
the courtyard, the airstrip, the hangar, helipad, ranch office, firehouse,
seven bay, heated garage, all of the stuff that was
(32:39):
constructed on the surface. We know that construction along with
waste management is often one of those things that gets
used for organized crime.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
It's almost a joke.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
It's a trope, like like I said, that's Tony Soprano's
purported position in this planet.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Well yeah, or you know, if we know anything about Manhattan,
construction projects go on forever.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
So, but in real life, looking at you all the
airports in New York and Newark. There is this company
that was a part of building Zoro Ranch for Jeffrey Epstein.
It's called Bradbury stam Stamm. It is the largest, perhaps
(33:30):
most well known contractors in the United States, at least
the largest in New Mexico. They did things. They do
things like building private homes, residential places. They build stuff
for companies all the time. They're a huge general contractor.
Most famously guys they worked at a little place called
(33:52):
Los Alamos that mister Epstein was terribly fascinated with, and
work coming out of Los Alamos, the super secret hidden
They built a lot of the secure facilities there. They
built a lot of the other stuff for other secret areas.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
We're talking about.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
We're talking about stuff that nobody gets to know about.
It is very interesting to me that he goes to
Bradbury Stam to create this thing. There is a weird
connection here too. This is the one I was talking
about mentioning earlier. There's a connection to Robert Maxwell through
Bradbury Stam. Do we know this one?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Guys break it down for us, at least to.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Reporting coming out of the New Republic. You can find
it right now. Terrifying details exposed on who built Epstein's
New Mexico ranch. And according to writing by a journalist
and author, Alisa Valdez Rodriguez, I'm just going to read
a quote here, Bradbury Stam holds classified construction contracts at
the New Mexico nuclear weapons labs that Galaine Maxwell's father,
(34:59):
Robert Maxwell, penetrated with backdoored spy software promise. That's the
We've mentioned that one multiple times on this show. On
behalf of Israeli military intelligence in the mid nineteen eighties.
These are somewhat allegations, but somewhat just acknowledged things that
have occurred he did. This is yeah, because there is
(35:21):
stuff you can find. For the most part, you know,
amidst the redactions, publicly available FBI files and testimony of
a dude that we've talked about as well Rafael Eton,
a MASAD operations chief who used to work directly with
Robert Maxwell. And again this is according to Valdez Rodriguez.
(35:44):
But they're just saying it's pretty crazy that Bradbury stam
with that weird connection to his you know, I don't know,
what would you call Robert Maxwell to Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I would call him the ad hoc father in law.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yes, that's a really good way to put it, like
uncle Robert or something, you know, the way he would
refer to him or something. The connection to these highly
classified things, plus these weird aspirations or theoretical aspirations that
Epstein had on this giant ranch, it just, I don't know, guys,
something strikes me as strange. It feels like there's something
(36:21):
perhaps hidden on that ranch that isn't even when investigators
are going in to look at the properties. I'm imagining
there's perhaps other structures or something on that land. And
that's a complete just you know, my opinion thing.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah, And you know, speaking of opinions, let's go back
to that conversation with Jeff and Steve. If we're going
to be casual here, I listen through all of it.
It is quite esoteric. Bannon does seem very familiar with Epstein,
but he also this is not gotcha journalism about Epstein's crimes, right,
(37:03):
which we're an open secret by twenty nineteen. Epstein says
my Santa Fe Institute, and he doesn't talk about his
eugenics plan, but he does talk a lot about race
and intelligence and Peter teele level conversations about civilization. He says,
my purported plan to predict the unpredictable is a total
(37:28):
failure because systems like the stock market, in his opinion,
are miracles, not machines. Again, you can listen to this
in full on YouTube, or folks, if you would like
to save some time, you can go to an excellent
piece by David Smith over at The Guardian. Do you
think you're the devil himself? That's one of the questions
(37:51):
that Bannon asked Epstein, and you could get a summary
of the odd highlights. It's just the thing is right now,
we'll get to the present news. Whatever the case may
be for Jeffrey Epstein's own statements and whether we believe
what the guy is saying. It could be a cover
(38:13):
for his crimes, or it could just be another thing
he was doing at the same time. In addition to
the trafficking, investigators are deeply concerned that Zoro Ranch may
have been a hot spot for trafficking and horrific sexual
abuse because rumors swirled around this place for decades, folks, decades,
(38:35):
But law enforcement and to a degree even the local media,
they just had a blind spot, even though there were
so many what do you call them, high net worth
individuals visiting them all the time. Yeah, Whatody Allen was on?
Speaker 5 (38:51):
He sure was not Wes Anderson.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Not Wes Anderson. Important distinction, thank you all Yeah. Also
we know his former members of his housekeeping staff, right,
former housekeepers said Yeah, folks like Andrew Matton, Winsor passed by,
stayed for three days. Congress members would come by the ranch.
The new Mexico governor of the time, Bill Richardson would
(39:18):
come hang out.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
What were they doing riding roping broncos out on the
range Jason Curly's gold, Yeah, inventing What of these.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
People care about going to a place like that.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
It doesn't still inventing ranch dressing, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
They I just don't buy it, Like, why are they
hanging out there.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Why aren't they going to, you know, the island or whatever.
It's just like, unless there's something of interest, why are.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
They going to the other place he owns that's in
the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Right, make any sense unless there's like just it's this
stronghold of.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
It's so messed up. It's so messed up. And just
to give you a brief look at some of the
growing allegations over this time, people like Annie Farmer. Annie
Farmer is the sister of Marie Farmer. Marie Farmer is
the first person to file a criminal complaint about Epstein
(40:10):
to the FBI. Annie Farmer, Marie's sister, said that in
nineteen ninety six she had been taken to that ranch
and sexually abused by not just Jeffrey Epstein, but also
by Gilaine Maxwell. And if we want to jump in
time a little bit, just to get some more context here,
we have to talk about an excellent piece by Australia's
(40:34):
Sixty Minutes, which came out quite recently, in which we
see an interview with Seante Davies. She recalls how Epstein
trafficked her to multiple properties between two thousand and one
and two thousand and five, took her from the Caribbean
to New York, from Paris to Saint Tropez and Zorro, Ranch,
(40:55):
she said, was by far and away the worst place
of all. We've got some quotes for you here directly
from Davies, and just be aware there is some strong language.
Speaker 5 (41:06):
Yeap trigger warning big time. This is rough.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
She talks about feeling like a mouse in a cage,
being trapped until she received word that she was being
summoned by mister Epstein who was quote ready for his
massage now, and when asked what that meant, the implication
being that it was sort of a coded language, she
(41:32):
responded the R word. I want to say it full on,
forced on sexual rape.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I'm thinking about all these properties that we've mentioned. An
apartment in Paris, in an apartment in New York, or
you know, house in New York. These are somewhat public places.
If you try and put yourself in the mindset of
someone who is being trafficked at one of those places,
(42:04):
At least in my mind right now, I can picture
somehow finding a way to get out the front door
and escaping, right and there would be other people that
like that's the biggest There'd be other people, there'd be
forms of transportation, there would.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Be escape, are we not talking about in this situation?
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Basically trying to escape could mean dying of exposure, could
be trapped, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
That's exactly what I'm thinking about here, the island and
the ranch as being two completely isolated places where you
are trapped there literally physically, emotionally everything. You literally cannot
escape the grasp once you are in those locations. Like
that makes that is horrific.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Why do you think super villains always live on islands?
And then the strongholds built into the sides of mountains,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (42:58):
It all tracks, yeah, and to the eugenics conversation or
the allegations of that. Davies also recounts how she She's
very careful to say she never personally witnessed this, but
she did speak with multiple other victims and survivors who
would tell her about, quote, waking up in a dark
(43:19):
room with a female doctor standing over them and feeling
like maybe there is some kind of procedure that happened.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
You gotta wonder was it testing of fertility, you know,
or like very I mean, was.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
It taking of their eggs reproductive materials?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
You know, do you guys remember one of the main
plots in X Files and how it revolved around taking
the DNA of every every American. At least I don't
want to spoil too much of the X file, one
of the one of the plots is taking the DNA
of every American, especially women who are able to have children,
in the stealing of their eggs for medical testing purposes.
(44:00):
I won't spoil the stuff, but that was one of
the plots. I know, that's just a show, that's just whatever.
But if you want to do human testing under the radar,
maybe getting a hold of a bunch of eggs wouldn't
be such a bad idea in a horrific way, getting
a bunch of a person's eggs, which is a procedure
(44:22):
you can do.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yeah, that is correct, and usually it's above board and
it's to help those people and their families. But this
exactly does not seem to be the case at that point.
These are testimonies of survivors, right, So we don't have
any documentation that's been publicly revealed about this alleged eugenic scheme,
(44:44):
but we do know there are problems with the investigations
as investigators started to look back through the timeline quite recently.
They found that these allegations and many other allegations seem
to have repeatedly ignored or covered up. You know what,
what if we take a break for a word from
(45:06):
our sponsors, and then we get to what we'll call
a lack of a raid, we're back. In twenty nineteen,
the FBI gained search warrants for multiple Epstein properties, the
town home in Manhattan, the Island of Little Saint James.
But despite all the allegations, there was never an FBI
(45:30):
raid on Zoro Ranch. New Mexico had a probe going
on toward the allegations around the ranch, but they shelved
it in twenty nineteen. Get this at the request of
federal prosecutors in New York. They were onto something, and
the New York Cats told them to shut down. They
said their reasoning made sense from a legal perspective at
(45:53):
the time. Their official reasoning to New Mexico was, we
are concerned that if you guys do a parallel investigation
or parallel research, you're we're going to have a case
where a victim or survivor is interviewed multiple times. And
they could contradict themselves, which weakens what we're trying to do.
(46:14):
The thing is, later files show the FEDS did take
the case. New Mexico agreed, and the Feds shut it
down internally, they just didn't tell anyone.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Isn't that weird Because as a part of an investigation,
you can do a whole lot of different things, and
in reviewing witnesses is one of those, and getting official
statements like that, but another big part would be physically
going through with search warrants and looking at a place
and discovering what you can find in that location. And
(46:47):
that got shut down, yes.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Once got shut down hard. And we actually we learn
more about the files because that saviyeor twenty nineteen. We've
got to shout out one of our brothers in audio,
a radio host named Eddie Aragon. I think we all
read the story here. He got an anonymous email from
someone who claimed to be a former ranch employee, and
(47:13):
they said that in return for one bitcoin. It's twenty nineteen,
so one bitcoin is about like eight grand or something.
He said for this person, whomever they were, said for
one bitcoin, they will provide video documentation not only of
Jeffrey Epstein, abusing children. But they will also reveal the
(47:34):
location of two what do you call them, foreign girls
whose bodies were buried somewhere on the property. That is insane.
And luckily our guy Eddie, he immediately sent this to
the FBI. And it looks like the FBI did nothing.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
Yep, hence the lack of raid previously mentioned.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Well, and we don't know that could be legitimate it
or that could be complete bupkis. We just don't. We
don't know, right and I suppose neither neither did the FBI.
But I do wonder if they, you know, did some
digging at all or they just shelved it.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
And guys, I know I missed the conversation around Epstein
as asset, but I do have to wonder, like if
you guys got into this notion of like, how far
will the government go in looking the other way from
horrific acts in the service of the greater good?
Speaker 5 (48:28):
Oh no, and what they get out of this person.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
As so far, so far, my friends, they will go
very far just to get.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
To the kind of crux of what that episode was about, nol.
It's about if this guy is in some way working
for or a part of an intelligence agency or multiple
intelligence agencies, or you know, a group that oversees intelligence agencies.
The the the thing that he did, whether he did
(48:57):
it on purpose or for someone or not, was he
gathered compromat on people so they could be controlled.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
So, because if person A knows that Jeffrey Epstein has
video of them engaging in these acts that are not
only illegal, they're abhorrent, you may person A may do
what whoever person B is says. So it doesn't have
(49:25):
to be Epstein controlling people. It could be somebody else
controlling person A via Epstein's dirt that he got on them.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah, agent asset versus full on salary man's spy. Right.
A lot of people just have conversations and provide connections
or leverage or compromat. Reuters comes to bat or the
FBI when they're talking about the what appears to be
a cover up of this investigation. They say, hey, everybody,
(49:54):
friends and neighbors, the FBI was riddled with on true
and sensationalistic claims about the the Epstein saga, right, And
they said a lot of these could not be corroborated
or they were found to be completely false. That is
understandable because we know often when laurd terrifying stories make
(50:18):
national news, there are a ton of people who, for
one reason or another, will make false reports. But this
doesn't seem to be the case because the FBI never
came out and said, hey, we looked into this and
we just determined it was not true. They kept all
their documents, all their correspondencies about this secret. They definitely
(50:40):
didn't seem interested in following up on this report of
buried victims. But public awareness is growing at this point.
Right the concern is growing. And while it is growing,
while Epstein is arrested and dies, the ranch itself ranch
(51:00):
is sitting around, mostly abandoned, mostly unused, as far as
we can tell, until twenty twenty three, when a sketchy
comptroller enters the chat.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
It wasn't he a new Mexico senator and also comptroller.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Texas businessman politician and at the time he was candidate
for a comptroller.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
There we go, Don.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Huffing's huffines this okay, So this kind of purchase happens
through this Matroshka doll. A lot of big time purchases
happened this way. A newly minted limited liability corporation called
San Mafael Ranch buys the property. We don't know how
much they paid, but they paid a lot less than
the asking price, and later investigations find this thing. This
(51:50):
entity was created to disguise the identities of the people
purchasing this and owning it, and that person was Don
Huffings and his family, So they definitely didn't want people
to know that they were buying this. They did change
the name of the ranch. It's no longer Zoro Ranch,
(52:11):
It's Rancho de San Raphael. And the current news they
have is that they're going to use this property as
a Christian retreat. For anybody who's listened to things like
Anna Waki, you can imagine why we would be skeptical
about Christian retreats.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
I've been to some Christian retreats that were just fine,
They're wonderful.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
I've been that don't wreck I get it.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, exactly, someone were great, just saying the bad things
can't happen there. It's blowing my mind that Sean Combe's
property was raided. And was that twenty twenty five or
twenty four? Guys, do you remember, well.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
I want to say twenty twenty five but so much
has happened. It might be right, it might be twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
I don't know, just the idea that they raided his home.
But then they're like, oh, Epstein's got another giant place
where we don't to raid that. That's so crazy to me.
Speaker 3 (53:03):
Mm, yeah, it is. It's anomalists to say the least
at the you know what, No, to say the least.
It is rank incompetence. That's the only non conspiratorial way
to explain it.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Well, it feels like a choice. I don't think it's
in common. I think is a choice. Somebody shows that
that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah, I'm saying if there was not a conspiracy, then
the only explanation would be incompetence. That's like the choice
is the conspiracy. Epstein never faced charges in New Mexico.
We know the ag office in New Mexico, the Attorney
General confirmed that they interviewed possible victims who had visited
(53:44):
the Zoro ranch. It wasn't until late last year twenty
twenty five, folks, that the lawmakers of Santa Fe called
for an investigation. They pushed to create a truth commission
to figure out what went down at Zoro Ranch to
figure out what, if anything, could be discovered on the property.
(54:05):
They finally succeeded. February of this year, New Mexico's House
of Reps passed a bill creating the Truth Commission. They've
been kind of tight lipped about the investigation because it
is no on going case, right, but very clever journalists
at the Santa Fe New Mexican found public records that
show the use of cadaver dogs and drones and vehicles
(54:28):
to search the property. It's going to be slow going
because again, this area is vast, it's in the middle
of nowhere. You know, this is high desert, and you
know with that. In step with this investigation, going back
to sixty minutes of Australia, we see more and more
witnesses and survivors coming forward. One congresswoman from Santa Fe,
(54:54):
Melanie Stansbury, talks about an alleged victim who reports being
invited to the branch and then being drugged and witnessing
multiple other young men being drugged and sexually assaulted in
front of him, kind of like en mass or serially.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Sorry, I just don't want to say about those things, man.
Speaker 3 (55:15):
Same it's unclean passwords to be honest, and again those
are technically allegations. At this point, there has been the
one convicted in a court of law for this. Authorities
in New Mexico right now, as we record on May eighth, Friday,
twenty twenty six, they are trying to determine how many
(55:36):
local people were abused at the ranch, and a number
of residents have come forward with fresh allegations. This is
also complicated, folks, by the fact that New Mexico historically,
as a lot of us know, has one of the
highest rates of missing and murdered indigenous people in the
(55:56):
entire country. So it is quite possible that other bodies
could be found that might not even be related to
these horrors, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (56:06):
Just looking at the reporting out of the Santa Fe,
New Mexican and specifically stuff from clear Bates there. Just
looking at how what's his name, Halfines, I think is
how you say it. The current owner, how Halfinds has
actually been super cooperative now that he or whatever LLC
(56:30):
you know has been structure owns it, but he's been
super open to cooperating and letting, you know, letting authorities
go through there. In some of the newer investigation. It
certainly doesn't seem like we've had enough time to do
a full search of that property. Just think about how
huge that property is. Along with this reporting, they're talking
(56:52):
about a couple what are the cadaver dogs that have
been on the property looking, you know, in various places.
But how do you cover over seven thousand acres with
cadaver dogs?
Speaker 5 (57:03):
My god.
Speaker 3 (57:03):
Yeah, they're hoping to use imaging right now. If you
listen to the reports, there's been some wide scale imaging
techniques applied to the area and now they're doing technical analysis.
So that'll help better target the drones, better target the
the corpse dogs, and it'll also hopefully give investigators a
(57:28):
better idea of where to dig. But we're talking three
decades of potentially terrifying stuff. You know, we're working against
time here because there have been plenty of years for
evidence to be removed, to have eroded, to have deteriorated,
or to be compromised. So the most powerful agencies in
(57:50):
the land for decades, apparently on some level, like some
members of some agencies, clearly we're involved with covering this up.
Now the question becomes not just what will investigators discover.
It's also now a question of whether they will be
allowed to disclose any of it, As the Truth Commission says,
(58:12):
will the Epstein files turn into Epstein trials? We just
know that for decades, even now, Zoro Ranch seems to
be home to stuff the powerful don't want you to know.
Speaker 5 (58:24):
Yeah, I'd see so well.
Speaker 3 (58:26):
We want to know your thoughts, folks. Thank you so
much for tuning in again. This is something that we
talk about off air pretty often. We are personally troubled
to explore and cover some of this, but we do
feel it's our remit and we would love to hear
from you. Do you think the investigation will find anything?
(58:48):
Do you think the public will learn anything? Will there
be justice for Epstein's survivors? Let us know? Find us
on the lines, call us on the phone, please send
us an email, please do.
Speaker 4 (58:58):
If you want to find us online, you can do
so by looking for the handle Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy
Stuff Show.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
Hey, do you want to call us? Our phone number
is one eight three three STDWYK. When you call in,
give yourself a cool nickname so we can put you
in the system and we'll recognize you if you call
in again. It's fun to do that for us, and
then we get a continuing conversation within that message. Please
let us know if we can use your name and
(59:25):
message on one of our listener mail episodes that show
up in the audio feeds of this show. So if
you're watching it on Netflix, you'll go to one of
the other places to listen to that episode. If you
want to send us an email, you can do that.
Speaker 3 (59:38):
We are It's a phenomenal way to contact us directly. Folks.
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet I'm afraid sometimes the
void writes back. We can't wait to hear from you
out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Show Links
RSSStoreAboutLive ShowsPopular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.